User talk:Macrakis

/Archive 1

Oguz1

Thanks, I found your reasoning for the NY Times article better than mine. Khoikhoi 03:57, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Raki

You erased my sourced contrib saying source was not good. The source is good and verifiable. (unsigned comment by User:Oguz1)

NO

Doner kebab is not shawarma. Do not blaspheme. (unsigned comment by 144.32.128.155 at 2007-01-31T02:00:48)

Your message

Thanks for letting me know. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 17:07, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks

Didn't check that article quite as carefully as I should have. Mazal Tov on picking it up. Mathmo ^Talk 15:05, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism reversion

Macrakis said: Thanks for removing the vandalism on the Myra page. You apparently didn't notice, though, that the vandalism had replaced good content. It's often a good idea to revert to the previous version rather than remove the vandalism directly because vandals often do more than one piece of damage to a page.

The trouble with the rollback feature is indeed that it only rolls back one contributor's bad contributions, and doesn't go back to the right one. I personally am rather fond of the matter's handling here, as it just about sums up all the problems we seem to have with multiple vandalistic contributors.

Thank you very much for notifying me, and thank you for bringing the situation back to normal. Bobo. 18:20, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Cretan Turks

Hi, Miskin asked me to comment on the Cretan Turks article. I'm not sure I've yet quite clearly understood what the issues are. I made a comment and a quick stab at something provisional in the article, but it's probably far from ideal. You were basically defending the same version of the intro also preferred by Miskin, right? Fut.Perf. ☼ 19:43, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes but he would never fall as low as to offer me support, even when we hold the same view. Just kidding, I guess. Look Macrakis about the pasta thing, I almost copied this from the source and I can give you the full citation if you want. What you described me is essentially OR, I don't know why you weren't able to verify it in other sources. Miskin 15:39, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

I said I was largely kidding about that, though you did imply at some point that both parties have acted unwisely. About the article, we're hitting on a brick wall. I think Cretanforever has made it clear that he doesn't want to follow wp:policy procedures. He hardly responds to our querries, and when he does, he does it in riddles. The most ironic and comical thing though is that his version is actually on. POV-fork, POV, unsourced, non-consensus, badly written - you name it - yet it still retains a default status. I'm really curious to see how far this travesty will get - just for cultural reasons. Miskin 22:00, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

ΥΣ: Σοῦ ζητῶ συγγνώμη γιά ὄσες φορές ἤμουν ἀγενής μαζί σοῦ Μακράκη. Miskin 21:46, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Stubs

Dear Macrakis, Thanks for your good intent for these edits. These articles are far-away than finished-developed. In fact;- as you know- these(baklava&börek/burek) are categories of foods; ie. there are many kind of baklava and börek/burek, so I prefer to add this stub template to these articles to categorize them in Turkey project stubs to give a guidance to the further contributors.If I would have time also I will try to add some info to them. Thanks and regards. Must^TC 18:16, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Foudel

Macrakis I'm most certainly not a new user of Wikipedia -- I've been posting anonymously here for many years -- I've helped write many articles on the dietary practices of ethnic cultures. I decided recently to post as foudel, and that's how I will post from now on. I'm very busy currently and have little time to spend on Wikipedia, but I'm notified when there are changes to my edits and I've noticed that you have now removed two links which I placed in 2004. The Greek recipes link was actually the first ever external link on the Greek cuisine page, and the link you removed on the Mediterranean diet page has similarly been there since 2004. (unsigned comment of 2007-02-14T22:27:23 by User:Foudel)

These are quality links to a free site that has been praised by a Tufts University, the Arizona Heart Institute and many other respected organizations.(unsigned comment of 2007-02-14T22:28:32 by User:Foudel)

Relevant links

Macrakis, you say:

"When an encyclopedia reader (as opposed to a cookbook reader) reads about Moussaka, he or she would like to know about its history, about its ingredients, perhaps even about its nutritional attributes, but doesn't expect to be directed to sites with their own (perhaps very tasty and very healthy) interpretations."

It's obvious you haven't spent more than a few seconds on MediterrAsian.com because you say it doesn't talk about the history and ingredients used in traditional ethnic cooking. You are very wrong. Please look at this section of the site please: http://www.mediterrasian.com/cuisine_of_month.htm

We've spent thousands of hours developing our site, and give away all the information for free (the site is also advertisement free). Every link to our site through Wikipedia is on a page I've personally helped write, and then you come along and decide after 3 years of them being there that they are link spam. Well they are not and never will be spam -- they are relevant and helpful links.

Please read some of the feedback we've received about our site from people -- including wikipedia users here: http://www.mediterrasian.com/feedback2.htm, and from Tufts University and the media here: http://www.mediterrasian.com/feedback.htm. We also have the backing of Oldways Preservation and Exchange Trust (the organization, who along with Harvard School of Public Health and the World Health Organization, created the Mediterranean and Asian Diet Pyramids). They said we were doing a "Great Job" and have given us permission to use the Pyramids on our site and in our book.

By the way, I thought you removed the hummus recipe link because below your edit description Abu ali talks about not using tinned chickpeas, and I thought that was why you removed the link. (unsigned comment of 2007-02-15T02:55:53 by User:Foudel)

Thanks for your comments Macrakis. The guidelines also say: “If the link is to a relevant and informative site that should otherwise be included, please consider mentioning it on the talk page and let neutral and independent Wikipedia editors decide whether to add it.”

So I’m going to mention adding a link to the authentic hummus recipe on our site (which has been very popular with Wikipedia users) on the hummus talk page, and I do hope you’ll support its inclusion. Foudel 17:48, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Hummus

You say hummus is unknown in Greece. This is incorrect. You may wish to look at these pages: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cookbook:Hummus_(Greek) http://greekfood.about.com/od/appetizerssalads/r/hummustahini.htm http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9A0DE6DC1338F935A35757C0A960948260

The description we use for hummus is correct, and it also includes other suggestions for how it can be used including as a substitute for butter. This is a relevant and nutritionally sound use for hummus, which is why it is mentioned.

You also say that “…you presumably choose and adapt your recipes to suit your nutritional goals.” This is also incorrect -- the recipes are based directly on traditional dishes, and are not changed to suit any nutritional goals (quite simply because they’re already naturally nutritious). Foudel 19:52, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

You say that the Greek cuisine section of about.com isn’t a good source on Greek cuisine. Well here’s the bio of the woman who runs it:

“Nancy is an American whose more than 30 years of living in Greece have provided her with an intimate experience of Greek food and Greek cooking on a daily basis. She is an avid collector of recipes, techniques, and cookbooks … Her love of cooking and eating led her to the kitchens and cookbooks of great Greek cooks and chefs throughout the country. She has delved into all varieties of regional specialties, from the Italian-influenced cuisine of Corfu to the Turkish-influenced cuisine of Thrace and Evros, to the cuisine of Crete, considered by many to be one of the healthiest in the world.”

Sounds like a good source on Greek cuisine to me. And remember, we don’t say that hummus originated in Greece, only that it is popular in Greece (and has been for many generations).

Also, here is the definition of gyros from the American Heritage dictionary:

NOUN: Inflected forms: pl. gy·ros A sandwich made usually of sliced roasted lamb, onion, and tomato on pita bread. ETYMOLOGY: From Modern Greek guros, a turning, from Greek gros, circle (from the turning of the meat on a spit ).

So gyros are typically served with pita bread and vegetables as a sandwich -- and not simply as pieces of roasted meat as you contend.

Gyros are commonly called “kebabs” in England, Australia and New Zealand, and gyros/kebabs filled with falafel (instead of meat) and vegetables are common. If you google "falafel kebab" you will find there are currently over 1500 matches.

Foudel 23:07, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

~Hummus is not traditional Greek Food on the mainland - having lived there I know. Also, it's unknown to the older generation not brought up on global supermarket items. I was introduced to hummus - not by Greeks - but by other ethnicities in Australia. ApplesnPeaches ~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by Applesnpeaches (talk • contribs) 00:19, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Old Persian

The word I had in mind was paradise, but apparently it doesn't come from 'Old Persian' either but from Avestan. Magos as far as I know has an PIE root *magh. I wasn't aware about the origin of those words you mentioned to be, but if what you say is true, then they most likely do not come from Old Persian like the article claims, but from some other, later Aryan language (maybe not even Persian). Chances are that Greek was added at random in that list of languages supposedly "extremely influenced by Old Persian" by Iranian nationalists. In any case I think you would agree that such a claim needs a citation. Miskin 14:20, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, I read your message in a rush and I misunderstood its purpose. Miskin 16:48, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

"Dead note" annotation

If you look at Template:Wp-diff, you will see that those notes which were marked "dead" did not have a corresponding reference in the text: rather than delete them completely I left them in the "references" section. HTH HAND —Phil | Talk 17:47, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

About the SUN study article

Thank you for your message. I regret the misunderstanding. I must recognize I would not had been so polite. Jrpvaldi told me he had changed his name after writting an article about Gotzone Mora, a spanish politician, and he had noticed that it would be easy to everybody to know that he was the author. Best,--Arturico 02:52, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

For the love of Ada?

That wasn't vandalism. Everything presented was fact. :(

This was NOT spam

Why on earth do you think adding a site with original and relevant content is spam? My [Hebrew hummus blog http://humus101.com] is super popular and got covered by ALL local media and backlinked by 100s of blogs. just Google it and you'll see. It also got linked by the Hebrew Wiki here: http://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%97%D7%95%D7%9E%D7%95%D7%A1 So why shouldn't my new English version appear here? (unsigned comment by User:80.178.56.8 2007-03-14T14:13:51)

Please read the WP:External links policy, which explicitly excludes "Links to blogs and personal web pages, except those written by a recognized authority." A "recognized authority" would be a published food historian, etc. The blog is anonymous, so we have to assume it is not written by a "recognized authority". It appears that the person adding the links is the same as the owner of the site, which brings up WP:Conflict of interest. (you call it "my" blog, so I assume it is your own). --Macrakis 15:29, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Loutrochori

Γειά σου Macrakis. (ASCII Greek) Prota tha ithela na se Efharistiso gia tin politimi sinisfora sou sto Arthro kai gia tis diorthosis pou pragmatopiises episis (Kath´ oti den eimai kai toso... profi sta Agglika opos esi, pou einai veveos kai i mitriki sou glossa)!

Episis tha ithela na me sigxoresis gia ton akompso tropo pou ekana anastrofi tou arthrou se proigoumenes ekdosis (horis sititisi enow...) kai na se enimeroso pos afto pou egrapsa epanilimena, oti diladi: "Μπάνια is an ancient Greek and ancient Macedonian name", den to grafo tihaia i apo plaka (i giati etsi mou katevike)... alla giati afti einai i epikratesteri apopsi ton Palaioteron katoikwn tou choriou. Sigekrimena prin apo peripou 40-45 chronia (kata to `60) vrethikan tihea se dio diaforetika simia tou horiou dio megalis simasias plakes (pou itan grammenes se arhaia Ellinika -i arhaia Makedonika... opos pistevoun kapioi- kai os olos paradoksos kai stis dio aneferotan metaksi ton allon pos i sigekrimeni topothesia onomazotan "Μπάνια"). An kai to epomeno diastima (se 1 i to poli 2 mines) skopevo na episkeftho tin periochi, echo idi ksekinisi tin sillogi stoihion peri tis sigekrimenis onomasias (an einai ontos alithini i prokeite peri parapliroforisis).

Veveos ehis idi poli sosta anaferi kai tin mehri simera orthi orologia peri arhaiou Ellinikou "βαλανεῖον" kai italikou "bagno" sti selida sizitisis tou arthou.

Oso gia tin anafora shetika me to "Red Water", tha sou apantiso argotera i isos to argotero mehri avrio. Ok?

Giati eho idi argisi... se ena poli simantiko rantevou. :D Efhome na katanoisis ta grafomena mou... Σε ευχαριστώ. --Asteraki 11:31, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

anagrams

Thanks for helping out with the clean up of this. I don't know why I didn't realize there was already an article on it before. —WAvegetarian (talk) 22:24, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

What COI this time?

So unprofessional of you! The second time my blog was added by somebody else, not by me. Check the IPs - it's not even someone from my region of the world.

I think my blog, being dedicated to hummus and hummus recipe, is not a bit less relevant than the two other links already included. I am truly sorry for not knowing all your sacred rules, and violating them by adding a link to a source of original content, which happened to be mine. True, I'm no "food historian", only a journalist who dedicates LOTS of time to a humus blog. And who open ed an English version to his local VERY succesful blog about hummus.

There isn't O-N-E other website about it except mine. Yet, you don't think it's suitable? (unsigned comment by User:80.178.56.8 2007-03-18T22:29:43)

Even if there isn't a COI issue, there is still the WP:EL issue. Anyway, I said "suspected" COI, and I still suspect it. First of all, the anonymous user who added it came from an IP address with no recent contributions, so apparently it was the only thing he/she has done recently. Secondly, two of the three other edits from that IP address involved adding Hebrew interwiki links, so there is some connection with a Hebrew-literate user, and you are apparently based in Israel. Perhaps a friend, perhaps a proxy. Third, you noticed this change very quickly, even though you are very recent and not very active contributor (6 edits since 3/14, all about this Hummus link).

Become the place that everyone agrees is the place to go for hummus information, and perhaps a link from WP will be appropriate. But I don't see it now. Good luck with your blog. --Macrakis 23:01, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

[Shooky:] A few points for you to think about:

a. First of all, my blog is already "the place" for hummus. In Hebrew. Feel free to ask one of your Israeli colleagues to verify that.

b. I don't know who added the second link. I got lots of links since I shipped the English version a week ago. You'd find some examples here, mostly well-established blogs/sites: http://www.technorati.com/search/http://humus101.com/EN/?partner=wordpress

c. I noticed the change very quickly, true. In the morning I saw wikipedia entrances in my logs, and discovered the new link. Later on, I went to see if it's still there and it wasn't.

d. the important question as I see it, is not weather I have a degree in history or not (I learned Computer Science and Political Science, does that mean I can't be an expert in hummus?) but is my site relevant or not. It's hardly relevant that I call it a blog. "Blog" is the name of the format and has no connection to the content.

e. both my Hebrew and English blogs, contain recipes. I add high quality photos to make it more authorative - you can't taste them, but they look good. In my Hebrew blog there are also hummus restaurant reviews, also with photos - maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, but the photos assure that I've been there. Of course I have the original digital photos, in mega-pixel sizes, which proves their mine. So, I have original content, related to the subject, which I can prove to be authentic and which is mine.

f. if I was desperate to add that link, I would look for a friend who's a wiki editor. I was awared that the link I added could be deleted. I thought if you, or another editor, will look at the site and it's high relevancy, you might keep it. I did not like the claim that it is spam, though. And now, that somebody else add it, it's under suspicion?! How many people should add it until it will be "clean"?

g. and it is, still, the first and only English website dedicated to hummus.

• Dear Macrakis,

I do apologize on behalf of who ever it is/are who keeps linking to my blog. I don't like this kind of behavior myself.

Thanks for your response. There's no "bright line" defining when it should be linked from WP, but there are lots of things that might make people suspicious -- for example, links added by anonymous editors with no track record at WP. Blogs are indeed just a format, not a kind of content. But it is a format which is well-designed for additions of current thoughts (with older thoughts being pushed to the background, typically) rather than a way to publish well-organized content. So they are definitely interesting when you are reading the current thoughts of someone who has an independent reputation (e.g. a well-known politician). Anyway, let your blog prove itself, and don't try for pagerank boosts from Wikipedia. If it becomes a generally useful source (more useful than other sources we aren't using -- see above for discussion of Mediterasian.com), it will eventually make its way here.... --Macrakis 01:05, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Anagrams?

Hi, sorry, I don't remember what you are referring to? --AW 22:21, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Regarding edits to Lycos

Thank you for contributing to Wikipedia, Macrakis! However, your edit here was reverted by an automated bot that attempts to remove spam from Wikipedia. If you were trying to insert a good link, please accept my creator's apologies, but note that the link you added, matching rule alexa\.com, is on my list of links to remove and probably shouldn't be included in Wikipedia. Please read Wikipedia's external links policy for more information. If the link was to an image, please read Wikipedia's image tutorial on how to use a more appropriate method to insert the image into an article. If your link was intended to promote a site you own, are affiliated with, or will make money from inclusion in Wikipedia, please note that inserting spam into Wikipedia is against policy. For more information about me, see my FAQ page. Thanks! Shadowbot 19:43, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Turkish coffee

Euxaristw. No problem, let me know if input or factual backup is needed. Politis 16:43, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Re

Geia! I agree with almost everything you say. I just thought that, since he was born in Salonica, there is some even weak link wth the project. That is why I rated it as of low importance. Anyway ... This is not a major issue. I will not object if you decide to remove the banner.--Yannismarou 20:19, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Attribution

There has been an extensive effort to combine Wikipedia:Verifiability and Wikipedia:No original research (together with much of Wikipedia:Reliable sources) into a new policy called Wikipedia:Attribution, and its FAQ, WP:ATTFAQ.

Recently, on Wikipedia talk:Attribution and on the Wiki-EN-l mailing list, Jimbo questioned whether the result had adequate consensus, and requested:

• "a broad community discussion on this issue", (now taking place at Wikipedia talk:Attribution/Community discussion), followed by
• "a poll to assess the feelings of the community as best we can, and then we can have a final certification of the results." (now being drafted at Wikipedia:Attribution/Poll)

You are invited to take part; the community discussion should be as broad as possible. If you wish to invite other experienced and intelligent editors, please use neutral language. This message, for example, is {{ATTCD}}. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 02:58, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Sotiris Ninis page dispute

Καλημερα σας. Ο εν λογω χρηστης εχει 3 μερες που δεν εχει σταματησει να αλλαζει την σελιδα χωρις κανενα λογικο λογο και απλα του ειπα ψεμματα οτι θα φωναξω τους διαχειριστες μηπως και σταματησει. Ο παικτης για τον οποιο γινεται η συζητηση (σωτηρης νινης) ειναι ενα παιδι Ελληνων μεταναστων απο την νοτια αλβανια (ή βορειο ηπειρο αν προτιμας), τον οποιο οι αλβανοι με το ετσι θελω προσπαθουν να τον βγαλουν ως αλβανο. Πρωτα μου ελεγε πως ο νινης πρεπει να αναφερεται ως αλβανος επειδη "τον πληρωσαν και λεει ψεμματα". Οταν τελικα του απεδειξα πως κατι τετοιο δεν ισχυει, τοτε του κακοφανηκε το ονομα "Βορειος Ηπειρος" το οποιο αναφερεται μεσα σε παρενθεσεις και απλα και μονο για να δωσει να καταλαβουμε σε πιο ακριβως σημειο γεννηθηκε. Επειδη απο οσο ειδα ζειτε στις ΗΠΑ, δεν δεχομαι σε καμμια περιπτωση οτι ο ορος "Βορεια Ηπειρος" ειναι προσβλητικος για τους Αλβανους, την στιγμη που οσοι αλβανοι ζουν εδω οταν ρωτουνται "Απο που καταγονται", οι 8/10 θα απαντησουν "Βορεια Ηπειρο". Συμπερασμα: Απλα ο χρηστης αυτος θελει να περασει την δικια του αποψη χωρις να υπολογιζει ολους τους υπολοιπους. Τελος θα ηθελα να σας ευχαριστησω για την παρεμβαση σας. --KaragouniS 05:00, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Οκ φιλε σε ευχαριστω πολυ για τις επεξηγησεις σου. Δεν επιτεθηκα στον χρηστη αυτον αλλα εγινε το ακριβως αντιθετο οποτε αποφασισα να του πω μια ψευτικη απειλη μηπως και σταματησει. Επισης, αφαιρεσα τον ορο "Northern Epirus" απο το αρθρο (εφοσον θεωρηται τοσο εμπρηστικος). Οσο για την εθνικοτητα του Νινη εχω να προσθεσω τα λογια του προεδρου της Ελληνικης Ποδοσφαιρικης Ομοσπονδιας:

Και ο ίδιος ο ποδοσφαιριστής στην κλήση που του έκανε η ποδοσφαιρική ομοσπονδία της Αλβανίας απάντησε με μια πολύ σημαντική φράση: 'Θέλω να παίξω με την εθνική ομάδα της πατρίδας μου' εννοώντας ότι η πατρίδα του είναι η Ελλάδα, διότι εδώ γεννήθηκε, εδώ μεγάλωσε, εδώ έκανε τα πρώτα ποδοσφαιρικά του βήματα

Εφοσον βγαινει απο τοσο επισημα χειλη, τοτε λογικο ειναι να τον αναφερω ως Ελληνα αλλα μερικοι φαινεται πως δεν το δεχονται αυτο. Ελπιζω να τα ξαναπουμε και στο μελλον :) --KaragouniS 14:28, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Aποσο γνωριζω έχει γεννηθει στην Χειμαρρα της Αλβανιας[1]. Και εμενα με εχει μπερδεψει αυτη η δηλωση του προεδρου της Ελληνικης Π.Ο.--KaragouniS 19:08, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Hors d’œuvre

Yea, I must have been sleeping when I did that. The problem with entrée is that there are two very different uses curently in there. I guess the best solution would be for entrée to be a dab and the two versions getting articles. The only question is how to dab them. I think Entrée (starter) could be one for the non American usage and for the American usage just point to main course on the dab page an entry like 'main course, an entrée in American English. I should note that entrée is also used as a synonym for entering or in some cases the permission to do so. So clearly entrée needs to be converted to a dab and expanded. Also don't forget about ENTREE, Entrée Wireless, and Entrée Gold Inc. among many other companies. Vegaswikian 19:18, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Ptolemaida

Hi, I see you put back a lot into this article that I had removed. The reason I removed it (as I mentioned in the edit summary) is that it is not specific to Ptolemaida -- in fact, it is copied straight out of the Encyclopedia Britannica 11th edition article on Macedonia. It doesn't make sense for every city and town in Macedonia to have a copy of this text. Could you please remove this text again or explain why you think it should be kept? Thanks, --Macrakis 19:58, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

The article is definitly about kailar as you know cuma beys definition are commenley used for kailar population. formel name of kailar was "kaza-i cuma" .it means the district of cuma not kailar. but people commenly uses kailar and than kailar name used publicly for the city.Because of the city population is originially came from kai trabe. I am the member of this erdermuş villiage of kailar family.they were beys from Ayyubid destiny from urfa. if you look at some urfalı surname in turkey that they came orriginially from kailar at 1926 to turkey.

if you look at the "tahrir defteri" in archive of ottoman state you can see this argument true. I put in the article some firman of sultans on kailar city. Please if you don't know ,ask me . I can tell you what it is.

St Demetrius

Dear me, my spelling is getting appalling, It's time for bed. It contains an article by Skedros (also ex Harvard T review) on the origins of the cult, but not the one you've referenced. Johnbod 04:27, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

sorry my misreading, article by Woods in response to Skedros. Johnbod 04:29, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Turkish cuisine

Hi, Macrakis. Although he/she is a good contributor, some information that he/she added in the article may be redundant. A detailed check is needed. Besides, there is a variety of Turkish words used in the article which in fact have English equivalents. Chapultepec 07:20, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Re Turkish cuisine&Etymology

The problem is that you should first put how a thing is called in Turkish and then in brackets. For example I think it is better to first give "sucuk" as it is and to write thereafter its pronounciation "sujuk". The same thing can be said for musakka, pilav etc.

None of the information I have put so far is redundant. Sometimes I may be tired and careless about grammar and wording however I am always coming back to correct or improve the text. But senseless/baseless removals make me upset gentlemen! I will continue to keep a close eye on your edits!

It is good that finally I have time and I can keep making repetitions in the article :) There is another thing I want to clarify. It is good that you are interested in etymology. However it is interesting your way of using it. As you have already declared your interest in Turkish&Ottoman languages I assume that you know Ottoman language is an artificial one and was built upon Turkish, Arabic and Persian. For example you insist on the word "lokma" being derived from arabic. First of all, whatever language it may be derived from, it would be relevant only if they had a dessert similar to lokma. Although you claim that in the 13th century somebody described something similar to lokma, I would like to have more information about that. How did that dessert look/taste like? Second, we don't have any other word to use for "lokma" in Turkish, at least in Turkey which makes me think how we would name it otherwise. You should also know that Ottomans (palace) always used persian and arabic quite intensively. Indeed they were literally our ""official language""..aside from the religious links with arabic language..So it is not like Greeks' naming small street stores "bakkal" or dolma "dolma" :) If you can read Turkish please check the link: http://www.tdk.gov.tr/TR/dosyagoster.aspx?DIL=1&BELGEANAH=871&DOSYAISIM=T%C3%BCrk%C3%A7enin%20Kom%C5%9Fular%C4%B1na%20Verdi%C4%9Fi%20Beslenme.html --Z y 10:14, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Kebabs

Yes I am very sorry to have fully reverted. Obviously I felt that the translations were required but I didn't check that you did infact tidy the page beyond taking those out. No offence was intended and I am sure we can find a way to shape the page in a way that suits us both and looks constructive to onlookers. Balkantropolis 16:26, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

You actually did a very good job. I don't wish to delete any of your part. I feel very guilty now that I moved without first checking. If you look at the page now, I restored the translations (perhaps these things matter more to us idiots from the former Yugoslavia than to those we're meant to tell it to). Apart from them, the rest of the page is as you revised it. Avala was the one who did more damage by taking out Montenegrin which was there from before, but he did that before you went on and I couldn't expect you to concern yourself with that trivia. So how do you think about the page now? Balkantropolis 17:33, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

No no no. Mine nothing. Thanks for yours! Balkantropolis 17:40, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Something to do with your culinary interests

Would you like to have a quick look at Choban salad and help out some friends who are quarrelling over a merge proposal? Seems like the kind of decision you're experienced with. Thanks, Fut.Perf. ☼ 21:26, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

tin kánate saláta

Thanks. That is all. This is the positive approach.Regards.Must.^{T C} 07:20, 13 April 2007 (UTC) I took mywords back, since I saw your merge tag there.Must.^{T C} 07:29, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

salad

I will discuss Greek salad also.Must.^{T C} 15:54, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Macrakis, my main concern is possible future vandalisms, I might be too wary, but I think this is kinda inviting. Also, if we don't like ethnicity, why Middle eastern? I think it should not be categorized by a region. I am not sure that middle easterners have a common salad culture, this is something kinda new I think. Was it widespread in Middle east, during the Ottomon Empire times, or before? Are the salads of all Middle easterns similar? Are they dissimilar to say Mexican salad? What to include, what not to include? deniz^T_C 21:16, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Pella

Stavro, the split of the Pella article was a good move given the circumstances. However, there are dozens of Greek places that have been renames in the 20th century with ancient names. One well-known example is Αχαρναί - Μενίδι - Αχαρναί. On the other hand, we do not have separate articles for Modern Athens and Ancient Athens, same for Corinth, Patras, Marathon etc. We need some criteria here. The case of Pella is characteristic in the sense that there was (I suppose) a time gap in the settlement, and the town was refounded as Agii Apostoli and later renamed after the nearby ancient city. I assume similar things happened in Marathon and Menidi. How about Amfipoli/Amphipolis? Can you look it up in your encyclopedias? Greetings,  Andreas  ^(T) 18:19, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Gazetemiz yazarlarından

Hi. What's your feeling about the construction gazetemiz yazarlarından, which we've been discussing over on Talk:Turkish language#Word order & "verbals"? At least one editor must have felt there was something unusual in this sentence from Cumhuriyet, because they changed the first word to gazetemiz(in) in the analysis.

User:Denizz, who I assume is Turkish, thinks it's OK without the -in. If he's right, I still can't understand the grammar. Maybe I'm just getting old! --NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 23:19, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your prompt reply. Much though I dislike pulling rank, it happens that I learnt Turkish from Lewis at Oxford, so I'm pretty familiar with his treatment of izafet groups! If you check out my latest response on the Talk page, you'll see that I now interpret the phrase as a special case of journalistic jargon. But it could just be that I'm out of touch, not having been in a Turkish-speaking milieu for some years ...

Greek syntax On a completely different topic, I'd be interested in your opinion on the absence of discussion of syntax in Ancient Greek, which I've touched on on its Talk page. --NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 09:32, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Giving up

I am offended :) I feel like clarifying some points. First of all, Macrakis, I do not know why but whenever you "improve" the English of the article, the meaning changes. For example; "depending on climate and geography" is different in meaning from "due to cultural differences" if I am not misunderstanding it because of my poor English. What I am thinking is that some awkward phrases in the article are resulting/remaining from some awkward edits made by "some" people who for example may require "citation" for the food widely consumed for breakfast in Turkey??. After a number of edits/reversions/edits etc. we may end up by this kind of phrases. For some other phrases given as example of "disturbing English", I can not say anything. Sorry for the inconvenience but they seem to be better than the proposed ones! I have not reverted any edit of yours for no reason. Sincerely!--Z y 23:05, 19 April 2007 (UTC) As if I was preventing you from improving the English of the article you are presenting the article as the poorest in English!

Chef

It is however not appropriate to blank the entire top portion of an article unless you are going to properly rewrite it. Please do not do that again, it is not constructive to the overall article.--Christopher Tanner, CCC 04:36, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

You are correct, I apologize for my hastiness and rudeness yesterday, inexcusable. I do like the word history edit, I'm just used to having more on the top of the article and I think I may change the wording as a Chef is one who cooks professionally; not "is a professional cook",it is more accurate because a "cook" is a professional as well and is part of the article. Thanks for the help and again I apologize for my abrupt behavior, the end of the semester is here and I'm writing five term papers for five grad classes.--Christopher Tanner, CCC 16:17, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Would it not be better for you to reword the section you removed instead of completely removing part of the article. In addition a chef's are not mostly found restaurants, they also work in hotels, banquet facilities, institutional settings (Ie. hospitals, nursing homes, schools etc.), which is why "professional kitchen" is a better descriptor than restaurant. --Christopher Tanner, CCC 21:51, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm not to fond of the Davidson entry on Chef actually. Although some of the information is interesting, items such as a fast-food cook being called a chef is highly inaccurate and insulting for those of us who are chefs. There is quite a bit of POV in the book overall, which is especially interesting for an Oxford Press book, which for many of its other publications would not be so inaccurate. I added most of the information on that page in an attempt to get rid of the useless POV information that was on there previously, in that hast that information went in probably with little edit at 1 am one day I'm sure. That information from Davidson you removed I actually reread and realized it is not entirely accurate and is too "broad" in its statement.--Christopher Tanner, CCC 00:22, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Lewis's Turkish Grammar

Thanks for your note. It doesn't really matter much, I suppose. I should have kept my big trap shut!

I managed to get what I wanted from his Catastrophic Success using Amazon's useful "Search inside the book" feature—sadly not available for the Grammar! --NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 20:18, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Caesar Salad

Good work on the anchovy wording, I wanted to write something like that but hadn't found the words yet. SeanLegassick 14:00, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Re:

Ya sou, no I saw your copyedit on my watchlist and checked your recent contributions. Read the article about Mysians and then clicked back and saw the newly created article while recalling that the name was not linked in the Charanis one.-- Ευπάτωρ ^Talk!! 17:47, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Yoghurt

I want to start out by saying I'm really sorry that this happened - I did my best to stop it, but sadly I have been overruled by 4 people who are obsessed with name changing (regardless of whether or not I agree with them), and there is a new debate on the Yoghurt talk page about the move - I just felt it would be best if most people who had voted in the past knew about this.danielfolsom 23:53, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Armenian Kingdom of Cilicia

Hey, thanks for the edit that I was going to make. I had already sent a message to the one who edited but he didn't answer me. -- Davo88 01:01, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Gülek Pass

Dear Macracis,

• Firstly there is no any bad faith with my edits, I keep all names together,no deletion.
• (for this case)I think at least reasonable to keep original/official names in articles that reflects present day like as geography,maps, current places and cities also.

We have a general-cultural- handicap, and this handicap feeds/growts himself. With the colonial/imperial motivatons in the past, all cultures were accepted as nonexist, in this concept; all the names in other cultures were accepted as nonexist, used antiq names, or original names were used with generally englisified(is it correct word?), like as Yoghurt, Ghulek etc. To continue in this manner we cannot give any chance to non-eurepean cultures, and the final conclusion is a cultural assimilation-one culture in the world.But every culture (independently from the number of person in that culture) is an additional reachness to the humanity.

Rule is rule. But, we are constructing the rules and we can apply some modifications( with some consensus) on these rules. There is a Turkish saying; "Kurallar bozmak için vardır."; it may translated to English as "rules are exists to demolish them" :)

sorry my english level, I hope it is understandable for you.Happy editing.Regards.Must.^{T C} 17:12, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

I unfortunately see this user remove any Armenian or Pontic Greek genocide related content, and even cited material from numerous articles on Armenian or Greek related topics. Anything that does not fit the way he likes things. Hetoum I 21:37, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Dodona

Hello, thanks for the heads-up. I think by now it's safe to treat him as quasi-banned and roll him back whenever he turns up. He was actually still under his last two-week block, so I've reset and lengthened the block on his main IP to another month. Anything he does within the next month can be rolled back as block evasion. Fut.Perf. ☼ 15:32, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Map (s) of Illyria

Γεια και χαρα! I agree, but it is really hard to find modern, reliable sources. Perhaps if you could find some, then we can upload them instead. Btw, the Prefecture of Illyricum map on Illyrians is unhistorical and inaccurate; furthermore, the article is about the Illyrians and not about Illyricum. Should it be there? Helladios 16:08, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Oops, you are right there, I mistook prefecture with province, and they are quite different! (Remind me to blame my English teacher...) Still though, this article is about Illyrians and not Illyricum. The correct place for the map is there: Praetorian prefecture of Illyricum. Helladios 16:41, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Fatted vs. fattened

I came to the same conclusion you have about the word … after I had made several changes. My initial source for it was wrong but I will change them back now. Thanks for asking! —Parhamr 20:38, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

encyclopedic & good research practices

Hi, Macrakis,

The comments you posted on my talk page User_talk:Joewski "but I don't think they're encyclopedic" after reverse edit on vise_(tool) do not agree with the definition of encyclopedic currently described on wikipedia, in my interpretation of that article.

Here are some Webster definitions,

encyclopaedia

Medieval Latin encyclopaedia course of general education, from Greek enkyklios + paideia education, child rearing, from paid-, pais child -- more at FEW

a work that contains information on all branches of knowledge or treats comprehensively a particular branch of knowledge usually in articles arranged alphabetically often by subject. [2]

encyclopedic

of, relating to, or suggestive of an encyclopedia or its methods of treating or covering a subject : COMPREHENSIVE <an encyclopedic mind> <an encyclopedic collection of armor> [3]

So could you help me before I do any more edits, by explaining how I should go about editing articles and interpreting what is encyclopedic. I read the contents of various recommend links and tried to follow the best practices.

Also you made the comments on your user page "It is also time-consuming to correct well-meaning but ill-informed enthusiasts, and to try to educate people about good research practices, but at least there you feel you're at least acting in an educational role. --Macrakis 18:27, 3 December 2005 (UTC)" What do you call "good research practices"? Is there an article you would consider worthy, that could help?

regards, --Joewski 00:18, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

June 2007 Wikiproject Food and Drink Newsletter

WikiProject Food and Drink Newsletter June 2007

Re:Notification

I'm still learning logistics of the Wikipedia program so it is good to have input like that so I can try to make everyone happy. I notice you are in Cambridge, I teach at a culinary school there.--Christopher Tanner, CCC 20:04, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

A returned wanderer

Look who's back! Shall we greet him as he deserves? Septentrionalis PMAnderson 15:20, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Do keep an eye out for a day or so; he hasn't been back very long, and I've used two or three reverts at Republic already. Convincing him that several people share the same opinion would be helpful. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 16:09, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Nema Fakei has been talking with him so long that she's filed a request for arbitration. You may wish to comment. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 01:45, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Greek yoghurt

Hi there - I created this stub, and have expanded it now. I don't see the rationale for merging into yoghurt. This type of yoghurt is very different from the standard product; also, the other specific types that have major differences from basic yoghurt have their own articles (eg Dahi, Dadiah, Labneh). I've mentioned it briefly in the main yoghurt article, but there is plenty of information that would bloat the main article. I notice in your edit summary that you mention other countries - yes, they do have similar products, but that isn't the point - Greek yoghurt isn't "yoghurt made in Greece" - it's a definitive name to describe that type of strained yoghurt, whichever country it's manufactured in. The name is notable, because it describes a method of manufacture, without which it has to be described as "Greek-style", etc. EliminatorJR ^Talk 23:43, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

July 2007 Wikiproject Food and Drink Newsletter

WikiProject Food and Drink Newsletter July 2007--Christopher Tanner, CCC 19:18, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Dispilio Tablet as an isolate

I can read this but can you read this? --Ghirla^-трёп- 21:35, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

strained yoghurt

Hi - as you know I merged in the articles at the weekend, knowing the article still needed a lot of work. So I came back to it tonight, only to find you'd done the work for me :) Nice job! EliminatorJR ^Talk 19:26, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

• I did find two references [4] [5] claiming that Bulgarian yoghurt is strained, but I'm not sure if this means it's always strained or just that it can be. EliminatorJR ^Talk 22:06, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Cheese

About wikipedia style, it's best to avoid statements like "For more informatio..." or whatever. There are two ways of doing it.

• Put a "Main article" template below the heading of the section that it expands on.
• Add the "For more info.." to the See also section at the bottom.

In the case of this article, it would be a good thing if someone who is working on food were to go through and add all the relevant "Main articles" and expanded the "See also". I'm preoccupied with Architecture projects and don't have time to track down the right links. --Amandajm 01:31, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Your help please

I highly respect your understanding of linguistics and how to appropriately use them—particularly because you cite your arguments. Can you weigh in on a discussion regarding 'slaughter' at Talk:The_Holocaust#NPOV_revisited? —Parhamr 04:44, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Pastry Cream

In response to an edit you made about croquembouche, pastry cream is a kind of custard, even though it contains flour or, more often, cornstarch. The word custard describes a broad category of egg and milk preparations (including ice cream) that can be either sweet or savory. (unsigned comment by User:Harmanx)

August 2007 Wikiproject Food and Drink Newsletter

WikiProject Food and Drink Newsletter August 2007

--Christopher Tanner, CCC 16:28, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Armenia-Azerbaijan 2

Hello, just a courtesy note, that some of your interactions with Makalp, is being presented as evidence against him, in an Arbitration case [6]. VartanM 22:30, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

September 2007 WikiProject Food and Drink Newsletter

WikiProject Food and Drink Newsletter September 2007
--Christopher Tanner, CCC 15:24, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Not a dishonest edit but a honest mistake

I strongly protest for accusing me for dishonest edit! I certainly thought that Yanya was a mistaken form of Giannena. But yet "Yahya" is not a contemporary name! Please check the talk page of article “manakis brothers”. And please don’t accuse me again! Although I do think that you mean well, still the words can be insulting! Seleukosa —Preceding signed but undated comment was added at 09:25, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Sorry to have accused you of a dishonest edit. I'm not sure how Yanya could be a mistaken form of Yiannina, but anyway. As for not being a contemporary name, I think you misunderstand the usage of "contemporary": saying that X is contemporary with Y means that they happened at the same time (Latin con- = Greek syn-; Latin tempus = Greek chronos; contemporary = synchronos). --Macrakis 14:38, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

croissant

You'll have to ask the person who added it; I just corrected the IPA that was already there. kwami 01:05, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Regarding edits to French fried potatoes

Thank you for contributing to Wikipedia, Macrakis! However, your edit here was reverted by an automated bot that attempts to remove spam from Wikipedia. If you were trying to insert a good link, please accept my creator's apologies, but note that the link you added, matching rule groups\.msn\.com, is on my list of links to remove and probably shouldn't be included in Wikipedia. Please read Wikipedia's external links guidelines for more information, and consult my list of frequently-reverted sites. For more information about me, see my FAQ page. Thanks! AntiSpamBot 03:04, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Please stop adding inappropriate links to Wikipedia. It is considered spamming and will be removed. Thanks. AntiSpamBot 03:14, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Food and Drink Newsletter November 2007

WikiProject Food and Drink Newsletter November 2007
--Chef Christopher Allen Tanner, CCC 04:47, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Image:Ethnographic Map of Turkey in Europe.jpg

Since you were interested in the origin of this map, please find a complete information in the its talk page. Lantonov 12:58, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Umm...

Excuse me, but why did you get rid of my apparent "POINTLESS" photo on the Photoshop Elements page? There is a good reason to keep it there, and it should stay. Please don't erase that photo.

L337p4wn (talk) 22:10, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Disputed fair use rationale for Image:Smithfieldfoods.gif

Thanks for uploading Image:Smithfieldfoods.gif. However, there is a concern that the rationale you have provided for using this image under "fair use" may be invalid. Please read the instructions at Wikipedia:Non-free content carefully, then go to the image description page and clarify why you think the image qualifies for fair use. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If it is determined that the image does not qualify under fair use, it will be deleted within a couple of days according to our criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot (talk) 19:31, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Food and Drink Newsletter December 2007

WikiProject Food and Drink Newsletter Decemberr 2007
--Chef Christopher Allen Tanner, CCC 22:31, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Article Deletion

Please do not delete content from pages on Wikipedia, as you did to Calamari, without explaining the reason for the removal in the edit summary. Unexplained removal of content does not appear constructive, and your edit has been reverted. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox for test edits. Thank you.

OY

How is OY pronounced? As the full word Osakeyhtiö, as a word itself [oj], or as letter names [o y]? --Macrakis (talk) 21:44, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Probably it pronounced simply /o'y/, Finnish has a very regular pronunciation system. 159753 (talk) 21:50, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Notability of Teragram Corporation

Macrakis, regarding your creation of the new Teragram Corporation article, I don’t believe the subject matter meets the criteria for notability (Wikipedia:Notability). Generally speaking, a small, privately held company such as this is not sufficiently notable enough to warrant inclusion in any encyclopedia. The proper remedy for this situation would be deletion of the article. However, I have no intention of pushing for that. Instead, I have taken the liberty of removing the “Teragram redirects here; see also Teragram Corporation” from Kilogram. The banner at the top of such a high profile, highly visited article as Kilogram effectively serves as a sort of advertisement for a small, for-profit corporation that shouldn’t even be in Wikipedia in the first place. Besides, anyone who wanted to research Teragram Corporation wouldn’t expect to find the article simply by typing “Teragram”.

I suggest that if you truly believe the corporation is somehow notable, that you expand the article in a way that makes this notability apparent rather than just creating a stub for it and leaving that task for someone else to figure out. Without this expansion (and the necessary information to make notability obvious), I suspect the article will eventually be deleted. Greg L (my talk) 04:24, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Food and Drink Newsletter January 2008

WikiProject Food and Drink Newsletter January 2008
--Chef Christopher Allen Tanner, CCC (talk) 05:18, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Teragram Corporation

An editor has nominated Teragram Corporation, an article on which you have worked or that you created, for deletion. We appreciate your contributions, but the nominator doesn't believe that the article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion and has explained why in his/her nomination (see also "What Wikipedia is not").

Your opinions on whether the article meets inclusion criteria and what should be done with the article are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Teragram Corporation and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~).

You may also edit the article during the discussion to improve it but should not remove the articles for deletion template from the top of the article; such removal will not end the deletion debate. Thank you. BJBot (talk) 22:29, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

blog reference in Column-oriented DBMS

I put the reference back in and explained why on Talk:Column-oriented DBMS - basically, it's an external "general overview" source about the subject, which is useful in addition to specific hard technical papers / technical vendor whitepapers / etc. Blogs aren't prohibited as sources - they're not good references for hard facts, but that's not what I'm using it as a reference for. It's a decent overall review of the topic by someone who does database work. That's a valuable secondary source to include - if it was a magazine article or website article as opposed to blog, it would clearly be OK. The person who wrote it seems to be an expert. So it should be fine.

Feel free to comment on the talk page. Thanks! Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 22:28, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Not so

No, not necessarily. There are two ways: mentioning inside the brackets, for both place of birth and place of death, and mentioning in the text. The latter appears to be favored in featured articles, and is more practical for several reasons. In any case, adding the birth place twice a couple of rows apart, making to links to the same article in the same screen, and mixing two separate options into one that is neither goes against the manual of style. Dahn (talk) 03:31, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Carbonara

Hallo Macrakis, I reverted your changes to Carbonara. Some points:

I never heard about your reference (Alberini / Mistretta). Anyway, TCI has nothing to do with cooking, it is a generalist editor, famous for its travel guides. The reliable references (at least here in Italy ;-) ) about Italian cooking are: Anna Gossetti della Salda, the Accademia Italiana di Cucina, Carnacina & Buonassisi, and (also concerning roman cooking) Ada Boni. By Boni (la cucina romana, 1920) this dish does not existes. As I wrote in the article, carbonara was born in the fourties of last century in Latium. Second, when you write that they are prepared with butter, cadi nel ridicolo (I wrote in Italian since you understand it ;-)). Where did you get this information from? Last (but not least), I would be very careful to change articles which describe something far from your culture just relying on some book, and ignoring what has been written by someone who is born in this culture. I am Roman (Civis Romanus sum ;-)), my mother too, I have a house there, I cook roman (and I have also my collection of italian cookbooks), my friends are roman, and I tell you that if I would dare to prepare carbonara with butter they will throw me the dish back. It is really sad that every other month someone springs from cyberspace and vandalizes this article (the last one pretended that Carbonara was done with peas :-((( ). Regards, Alex2006 (talk) 05:51, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Hallo Macrakis,

I reverted my reverts ;-). Sorry for my unpoliteness, but when I saw that you wrote butter in the carbonara, I saw red (italian way of saying). The story of this article is a long sad story of people coming from all over the world and bringing his/her personal interpretation about the dish. I am not discussing your good faith: what I am discussing is that you trust more a book written twenty five years ago by two never-heard-before people than the personal experience of a Roman. And please, forget Luigi Veronelli, who was a great wine expert, but not an expert of gastronomy. The references about italian cooking are those that I gave you before. Otherwise, take ten random phone numbers in Rome, and ask the recipe. I bet that none (except maybe some american living there ;-)) will mention butter. Cheers Alex2006 (talk) 16:14, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Ciao Stavros! first of all, thanks a lot for correcting the origin of the name Taksim. Anyway, it is incredible that two turkish books (reliable sources up to now... ;-)) affirm that the word is Greek... Back to Carbonara, I missed at a first glance the two recipes that you wrote. I have a book about roman cooking written by Carnacina and Buonassisi ("La cucina romana"). Unfortunately, they wrote it in a period when italian cooking was still suffering of an inferiority complex, and they tried to 'francesizzare' every dish. The result was cream and butter everywhere. :-(( But, believe me, the roman way of preparing the carbonara, the one used around Testaccio and S. Lorenzo, is still that recorded by Anna Gossetti (the editor of "La Cucina Italiana"), who at the beginning of the sixties spent two years around Italy, observing how the italian families were preparing their food. Anyway, after reading your comment on the Discussion page of the article I got your point, and it makes sense, altough it could happen that in the future some roman guy (not me) or girl wandering around wikipedia could 'vandalise' the article again! ;-) Grazie ancora, Alex2006 (talk) 10:07, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Creta? beautiful! I have never been there, but I am looking forward to go there next summer...Last october I was in Kastelorizo, a little jewel. You should definetly get a copy of the book. This is THE reference about italian regional cooking, and is not only my opinion (Allan Bay thinks the same). And - before you think that she was going to self-censor herself because the dish was too heavy, you should read some recipes that she collected, as for example the cannelloni stuffed with tortellini, a dish from Bologna that could kill a bull (and maybe did ;-)). About frenchification, unfortunately this is the truth. Italy became aware of its cooking Culture only in the last fifteen year (something that Greece is experiencing right now, I think). The traditional roman cooking uses olive oil and strutto, but very little butter. My granma was preparing the crostata di visciole with half butter and half strutto, and the taste was incredible. Of course something like that now is prohibited ba the national health service ;-) That's all for now, cheers Alex2006 (talk) 11:55, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks

I appreciate your advice, but I respectfully disagree as I am making myself accessible to not only the encyclopedia, but others that come to the encyclopedia and seek advice on culinary situations, particularly culinary students as I am an culinary educator and seeing the term Chef and my certification assists them in confidence as to having a source for advice which happens often from this avenue. I'll consider your advice though, but no one has ever mentioned anything in the last year to me on the subject. --Chef Christopher Tanner (talk) 18:20, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Doctorate

The more I thought about it (A horrible character flaw of mine is responding immediately to people and not considering another's comments away from the screen) I understand what you mean for the signature, as I only work on food related articles I had thought it a good idea, but I see your point as I used to think it was pretentious years ago when I used to see people place the CEC, CCC or other American Culinary Federation credentials on their e-mails and letters to me, but I in turn have adopted its use in my e-mail signature and it just followed here.

I am tossing around two different ideas for my PhD as other opportunities have been presenting themselves. One of my plans brings me to K-State to attain a PhD in hospitality administration. Recently I have been considering a doctorate in education from SUNY Albany. I have to admit the degree from SUNY Albany is not as "sexy" but there are a number of other opportunities that present themselves by me getting a degree at Albany. Kansas State falls into the category of me getting lost out in the corn for three years and missing out on a lot of industry contact I have living in the area I am in now.

I am also interested in writing a text book addressing the education of food and culture utilizing my Masters degree. There is one text available currently and I find it slightly lacking in its overall academic nature. Academia in the liberal arts portion of food studies still needs some work as I am sure you have seen from many of the books used for references such as a number of references in the Davidson Oxford text, and the deplorable History of Food texts I see all the time. Luckily we are getting more educated people writing books. I am looking forward to a book on Korean cuisine coming out soon which should add to the pile of good books coming out. Too many try to dumb down their topics or the author is a self-proclaimed expert because they went on vacation somewhere.--Chef Christopher Allen Tanner, CCC (talk) 19:06, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Well first and foremost I am a chef. I use my understanding of history to emphasize why it is important to preserve certain culinary traditions and to help understand why certain things we cook in any kitchen, be it professional or the casual home kitchen, have become part of culture. As I studied in the gastronomy program at BU this past year I found myself missing the hands-on cooking portion of food. The hospitality administration degree conditions me to teach and potentially administrate in a culinary school, which is one of my desires. Boston University offers the opportunity to concentrate a PhD in history in food, but quite honestly the topic is still looked down upon by most academics and as such means I would be teaching history and perhaps teach one class on food history a semester.

On the other hand with the path I am going on I could teach culinary and hospitality classes, which I love doing, and then teach a class that I could design based upon my gastronomy studies. It also seems that the hospitality schools are much more open to adding these gastronomy based courses to their program, while other programs again look down upon these classes. As you also noted, the pay for a PhD in hospitality admin. is significantly higher than that of one graduating with a degree in history or most other liberal arts subjects as there is a glut of graduates in liberal arts subjects. I have throughly researched the idea, discussing the notion of working on a history PhD at BU with Thomas Glick (another Harvard grad teaching at BU) and gave up the notion quite awhile ago.

BTW, the book I am looking to write would be for college students. The other book I am working on is academic in nature, but aimed at a general audience. --Chef Christopher Allen Tanner, CCC (talk) 20:55, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Hey

Great rant on the use of the terms authentic, traditional and original. Too many people toss those words around too readily. When I went to change my certification initials today I took your advice and removed them from my signature as I looked at my signature and saw that it looked pretty ridiculous compared to other signatures. I shortened it to Chef Tanner, I still like having Chef on it. I don't know the guy you were asking me to say hello to btw, I think you had asked me the same thing some months ago. I'm actually not even in Boston anymore, I moved back to New York to write my thesis and teach at a culinary school out here.--Chef Tanner (talk) 23:21, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Corky

Hm, I don't know if she still teaches at BU. Bik Ng conducts our Chinatown tour now and there is a Food Anthropology class but it is taught by another woman whose name just happens to be Mary. Perhaps she is in the Anthro. department but just not involved with us anymore.--Chef Tanner (talk) 03:42, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Window function (SQL)

I have nominated Window function (SQL), an article you created, for deletion. I do not feel that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Window function (SQL). Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time. Redmarkviolinist ^{Drop me a line} 22:17, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Late apology but better than never I hope

It has been pointed out to me that while trying to deal with cleanup from the carnage of Jamiechef2 (talk · contribs) (CheckUser linked from user page) I mistakenly left an edit summary indicating that you might be a sockpuppet of that user. In retrospect, I was working fast due to a number of people not investigating the edit (simply using "anti-vandal" tools and seeing "ooh, section blank, revert") and my summary was in error: if I gave offense to you, I apologize. M1rth (talk) 15:55, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but since a number of editors continue to POV war on other food-related articles, I prefer to have the contentious section (especially as it was the result of a POV sockpuppet abuser's additions) thoroughly cleaned rather than risk yet another edit war. M1rth (talk) 22:19, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of Accuride International

A tag has been placed on Accuride International requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a company or corporation, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is notable: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, articles that do not indicate the subject's importance or significance may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable, as well as our subject-specific notability guideline for companies and corporations.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}} to the top of the page (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the article does get deleted, you can contact one of these admins to request that a copy be emailed to you. BigDunc (talk) 23:11, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Accuride International

I have nominated Accuride International, an article you created, for deletion. I do not feel that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Accuride International. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time. BigDunc (talk) 15:06, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

etymology of récipé

Etymologists disagree with your remarks, here and here, for example. Tomer^talk 03:34, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

F.A.K

Stavro, visit Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/F.A.K and tell if this is not a hoax.  Andreas  ^(T) 21:17, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Pasta fagioli

The link removed had a photo. Then the article had no photo for our users to refer to. Links added have photos. Now the article has photos for our users to refer to. For maximum encyclopedicity, articles about food items will feature photos. Most food photos are on recipe sites or photo sharing sites. Pending the creation of an excellent photo by a Wikipedia user, the links provide at this moment the visual information our users would expect, if visiting an article about this food item. Badagnani (talk) 21:31, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

As stated above, our project serves our users in being as encyclopedic as possible. This involves having, when possible, an image in food-related articles. When we do not have an excellent free photo submitted by a Wikipedian, we provide links that point readers to what this food item looks like. In this case, the article formerly had a link that showed a photo of the food. That link was removed, leaving the article without a photo showing our readers what this food looked like. Then, a link was added showing photos which described for our readers what the food looks like. As such, providing such a link ensures that when our readers visit a page about a food-related item, they will be able to find out what it looks like. We must have our users as paramount in our minds, and be thoughtful in every edit we make. Depleting an article by blanking the only link showing what that food item looks like (let alone blanking all links, leaving no link at all) is not thoughtful for our users, something that should always be the main objective in our conduct in editing our encyclopedia. Badagnani (talk) 04:01, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Who defines

a normal name?We say Arvanitika, Vlachika and Pontiaka.Not Pontic Greek or Arvanitic Greek and Vlachic Greek. --Ioannes Tzimiskes (talk) 14:33, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

• Have you ever seen someone call the language Ποντιακή in Greek? Just the adjective? Pontiaka is the common name. Otherwise Pontic Greec dialect. Pontic Greek alone can imply from a person (a Pontic Greek) to Pontic Greek Cuisine. What i am saying is that the title isn't informative enough to someone about what the hell the article speaks about. The analogue would be with Arvanitika being labeled as Arvanitic or Vlachika Vlachic alone.The analogy rests in the mistake to use a strip adjective as a title and not weather Vlachik Greek is similar as saying Basque French. --Ioannes Tzimiskes (talk) 14:55, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Hummus

Hey Macrakis,

I would rather not get involved right now, although I do suggest that you try mediation or something similar. From what I can tell, the sources that this user is citing are anything but scholarly. They all are articles that mainly focus on how to prepare to hummus, and then list small sidenotes on its "history". The first one is by someone named "Saad Fayed", who describes himself as "a restauranteur with an avid interest in preparing Middle Eastern cuisine." IMO, he has no authority in the history of the food. He cites no sources, in addition to the second source (choice.com.au). Ironically, the third source does include footnotes, but the footnote says "Information obtained from Wikipedia"! (see [7]) Basically, I agree with you, but I don't really have the time to get into a big debate with this user about this. Would you be satisfied if I simply request him/her to use scholarly sources? Also keep in mind what I said about formal mediation. Regards, Khoikhoi 05:24, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Hey there, sorry I didn't get back to you sooner, I have been extremely busy lately. I don't know if the issue was resolved yet, but I will look into it. I know I must have a number of sources in my library that discuss the topic of hummus which will help us weed out the web references. I can't stand web references which I'm sure you take issue with as well.--Chef Tanner (talk) 21:26, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Greek alphabet

Hello. Re that; why did you delete one of the two links (linking to freeware fonts) an IP user added? The second link, links to compressed .zip files, as well. Is there a WP rule against linking to downloadable compressed files? Regards. ktr (talk) 09:59, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Food and Drink Newsletter June 2008

WikiProject Food and Drink Newsletter June 2008

--Chef Tanner (talk) 16:51, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

PageRank

(Re: Teoma etc.) Thanks--it occurred to me that the information might be useful and relevant in another section, and you've put it in its proper context (and made other improvements). Tracy Hall (talk) 03:17, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Food and Drink Newsletter July 2008

WikiProject Food and Drink Newsletter July 2008

--Chef Tanner (talk) 15:40, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Please elaborate on your choice to delete my changes, although I do understand your reasoning behind such a move, you fail to explain why you feel that way. What good does that do anyone?

Thats like telling a kid "don't do that". When the kid asks why, you say "because." Instead of actually discussing the reasoning behind not doing that particular thing.

That is more "nonsense" than my original suggestion. It would have been better if you just left it and let another PHD or whatever come along and challenge it, perhaps they would choose to elaborate more. But now, you deleted the link under the CORRECT category for such a NONSENSE idea, so now NO SUPER PHD will come across that NONSENSE link. So really, you and your PHD are actually doing more harm. IF you feel like being any help.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Mathematics#How_to_realize.2C_prove.2C_disprove.2C_and_or_show_the_math_behind_a_new_type_of_number.__A_Transcendental_number. Gravitroid (talk) 00:38, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Mullet (Fish)

The reason why I inserted the Indian name was to make the article interesting to Indian readers since many do not probably know the fish by its English name. Could you please explain the reason why you removed it. Docku (talk) 23:11, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Removed algorithm on Binomial coefficient

Hi Macrakis,

You removed an algorithm for computing the binomial coefficient, on the basis that "Neither the recursive nor the dynamic programming approaches are sensible computationally". I found the recursive algorithm quite helpful, it helped me on a programming task I had, and while there can be better algorithms, it sure is easy to write and understand, and fast and reliable. The preceding algorithm is written in a manner I don't understand and didn't result very helpful (but that might have been because of insufficient knowledge from me). I'd like to know why don't you think it's worth showing the recursive algorithm, and also if there is a better one, that can be more helpful than the algorithms currently shown. Regards, - Keta (talk) 21:38, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

OK, I understand what you mean, you're right. Still, aren't there better algorithms than the one shown? - Keta (talk) 19:05, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Faux Greek

I have nominated Faux Greek, an article you created, for deletion. I do not feel that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Faux Greek. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time. Do you want to opt out of receiving this notice? -- [[::User:Collectonian|Collectonian]] ([[::User talk:Collectonian|talk]] · [[::Special:Contributions/Collectonian|contribs]]) 03:21, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Tabbouleh

Hey -- so my contributions to Wikipedia lately are very turned down. The controversies with Levantine/Arab/Israeli cuisine are probably the main reason I stopped editing back in 2006, so I'm not really interested in getting started up with that again. Good luck, and sorry I can't be of much help, --Mgreenbe (talk) 15:38, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Mackrakis, your inability to realize the bad taste of the word Levantine has the qualities of a hate monger --67.80.174.252 (talk) 03:24, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

• User:67.80.174.252, your language (here and in your edit comments) is untenable. Please observe WP:Civility. Do not delete sourced material. Put your problems on Talk:Tabbouleh for discussion. See dictionary definition of Levantine: (a) Of or pertaining to the Levant or its inhabitants (New Shorter Oxford English Dictionary); (b) adj. of Levant: The countries bordering on the eastern Mediterranean sea from Turkey to Egypt (The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language). --Zlerman (talk) 04:06, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for helping out on Odwalla! Any help would be appreciated! :) Intothewoods29 (talk) 03:41, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

"Original", "traditional", "authentic", and other distracting terminology

I moved it to the Article guidelines section, the essay was so good I thought it should be codified into the guidelines. --Jeremy ( Blah blah...) 15:20, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Armenian cuisine and meze

• I agree entirely. However, meze is mentioned explicitly on Cuisine of Armenia and that's why I think we need to tag it with Category:Armenian cuisine. I have put a lot of effort into editing and revising Cuisine of Armenia (although I am not Armenian and eat Armenian food only when I visit Yerevan). I am aware of the suggestion on the talk page to separate explicitly between typical Armenian dishes, Western Armenian dishes, and other cuisines, but as I have noted previously I am not qualified to do that. I have to leave this to Armenian food experts. Perhaps we should tag as Armenian cuisine only those specific dishes that are listed in Cuisine of Armenia. But we now have a further complication: Hakob has created a new Category:Western Armenian cuisine and has been implementing two kinds of edits across the board: either replacing Category:Armenian cuisine with Category:Western Armenian cuisine or adding Category:Western Armenian cuisine to Category:Armenian cuisine. The latter is totally objectionable, because Category:Western Armenian cuisine is included in Category:Armenian cuisine. The former is problematic, because how can we be absolutely sure that a dish is "Western" Armenian and not (also) "Eastern" Armenian? This problem has cropped up with manti and now with meze. We can probably be sure about fattoush, hummus, and tabuleh (all Western Armenian?), but what about eetch -- as of now it is in Category:Western Armenian cuisine only. So these are the problems as I see them. Please study the Cuisine of Armenia article and review the lists of dishes in the two categories. I look forward to hearing your views, here, on my talk page, or on Cuisine of Armenia talk page. We should certainly make an effort to straighten this out in a constructive manner. --Zlerman (talk) 05:40, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Odwalla

Yeah, thanks for all that work! Especially the wicked pronunciation guide! LOL I don't know what the definition of merge is in this context, but looking at the article, I can figure it out. If you could please do that, it'd be great. I added a whole bunch of refs for FAC, and now they're MIA! LOL Thanks again. Intothewoods29 (talk) 17:16, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

I'll do one more (the [sic] tag in one of the refs malformed it, so I'm just going to remove it if that's alright), and then it's all yours. :) Intothewoods29 (talk) 17:17, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Super. Thank you so much! Intothewoods29 (talk) 19:08, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks!

		The Original Barnstar
		Thank you so much for all of your efforts on the article Odwalla, which just recently passed FAC. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have without the work you did. Thanks again. Intothewoods29 (talk) 05:45, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

You've just opened up a big can of worms!!!

with your removing the greek words for spices and vegetables LOL, I happen to think you are correct, and in most other languages other than english, easy to find the correct word for everything. But take a word like "pizza", in greek as you know, if you stretched the imagination just a little, you could translate it as Pita, no idle musings i assure you, the greek word is used for both flat breads and various pastries in parts of southern italy. Well there is a perfectly good word in english for these things- pie!

words take on cultural significance for example Riccotta, in cyprus exactly the same product is called Anari and they both have different wikipedia pages. Moreover there is a perfectly good english word to describe them both- cottage cheese. the fact that traditionally in great britain whey cheese was made rather wet, does not alter the fact that those products are cottage cheese.

there are no seperate pages for bread from different countries in the indigenous languages, even tho different regional breads differ far more widely than the beef stew known as stoufade, stuffata, or stifado, tho over time they will all get there own pages- and none of those pages will acknowledge the others as referring to similar things, and further none will describe them as a stew!

in the white english speaking world, we take these words and assimilate them, each individual one, take "alati", a word you deleted (quite rightly!), it is not beyond the realms of possibilty that someone would import salt from a region of greece, market it as a boutique product and get it known as "alati". In the uk the italian word "panini"- the plural for their word for sandwich, has come to mean a particular type of toasted filled roll, and the word is used as a singular!

look at the mess that is the souvlaki page here!!!! so i agree with you wholeheartedly, but i think we are gonna lose this one big time, and part of me says "good", we are pedants and the beauty of english is that it is not a pedantic language. it is expressive, open to change, and has the flexibility of a couple of million words, most of them synonims borrowed from other languages.Hotspury (talk) 12:25, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Imaala

I am going to ask you a question though I doubt that you are going to give me an honest answer.

Where did you get the word imaala from? HD86 (talk) 07:42, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Well then, I didn't know. It is surprising.HD86 (talk) 17:04, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Wikistalking/negative editing

I recommend very much that you review Wikipedia:STALK#Wikistalking.

I've noted that you tend to remove rather significant information from articles with very little justification. I've witnessed you doing that at least thrice. Please refrain from deleting information based on what appears to be no more than personal whims. Do not change the complete Arabic transliteration I provide to other shortened versions anymore; do not remove pertinent information from articles any more; and read these very well Wikipedia:STALK#Wikistalking Wikipedia:Civility. HD86 (talk) 07:59, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Greek cuisine

Hi!

You wrote: (remove (distorted!) plagiarism from Mackley)

What did you meen by distorted plagiarism from Mackley?

Warrington (talk) 15:32, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Hi again!

Yes, I understand how you are thinking. Still , a good opening part disapPeared when removing this mixed passage.

First of all, it was not me who added this. I only reaRrenged the article Greek cuisine. But I have to say that this was the best part I found in the whole article that I could use as an opening phrase. My guess is thet the part might have changed ower the time, when other editors were editing it, in particularily removing the part about Greece's past, particularly Arab, Turkish, and Italian influences. I got the impression that some Greek editors would not like that part in the article Greek cuisine. So that can be an explanation to some changes, wich occured ( or maybe the original editor removed that part.)

And the citation = Greek food is simple, colorful and packed with robust flavours, it would make a greeat introduction, because Greek food is cooked in a simple way, and the flavours are robust, not refined and messy. In some way, there is a need to present the Greek cuisine as a whole in the begining, before start talking about the ingredients. I would like to put this part back in the article, cited with quotation marks and a citation in the proper way. I don't care what the turist discover oR not, that is not important.

Secondly, do you agree whith this that: the traditional Greek dishes have a distinctive style of their own which has not changed much over the years? Because if this is true, than this sentence can be there in the begining, not something from Mackley, but like a simple sentence describing the style of the Greek cuisine.

Or like a correct citation as well, they have a distinctive style of their own; a style which has changed little over the years. Anyhow, there is a need to present the Greek cuisine in the begining, whith or without Mackley.

Warrington (talk) 09:23, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Hi , Ok, so the part of the Greece's history is not entirely correct. Some basic ingredients and cooking methods have changed little over time, some are new. Anyway, there is an entire section about Greek cooking traditions, more thorough, so that is not so important. Greek cooking style is generally simple and robust, compared to that of, let's say French Haute cuisine's , characterised by an obsesion for details, labor-intense recipes, with intimidating, polished, elaborate preparation and presentation methods. I mean (generally) that Greek cuisine has an elegant simplicity, a generous menu with rustic overtones and basic, easy-to-follow recipes. But what is important now is to have a good introduction to the Greek cuisine, as I said before, whith or without Mackley.

There is a need to present the Greek cuisine in the begining of the article, defined by its general characteristics, presented somehow, in a good, correct and interesting way. If you dislike the expression Greek food is simple, colorful and with robust flavours (the whole internet is “packed” with this expression, it is apparently a very popular one) than maybe you consider wrighting a good introduction yourself?

Regards

Warrington (talk) 08:34, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

By the way, it was not you I meant is unpolite, but others.

You wrote There is a need to present the Greek cuisine in the begining of the article, defined by its general characteristics, presented somehow, in a good, correct and interesting way. Perhaps, but it's hard to do that without slipping into cliché. --macrakis (talk) 03:51, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Warrington"

My question is, don't you care for the Greek cuisine article? Don't you want that it should be a good article? I really care for that article, and I want to make it better. You are Greek, you know a lot about Greek cooking... If you don't agree whith me, than you can formulate something that makes you content. You removed the opening part from it, why not replace it whith something else, that you think is satisfactory?

Warrington (talk) 10:53, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Than let's forget about that, and add some other, better characterization. How would you describe the Greek cuisine and its general characteristics?

Warrington (talk) 14:24, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Ada edit-summary not intended as insult

04-Nov-2008: I'm sorry that you interpreted my comments against excess simplicity as an insult. I was focused on the idea of over-simplified text, hence the mention of "Simple Wikipedia" there. I have worked with numerous intelligent people, and they can understand "complex" ideas, which should be included in articles, so long as the details are limited to a few sentences. Many people have complained that Wikipedia articles are kept "too simple" in coverage.

It's good to hear that you have some design experience with Ada, but I was expanding the ("encyclopedic") view to include issues that I, and others, had used to design languages years before Ada (or the Green language) came along. In terms of complexity, the design of comments is a relatively easy subject, where details will not overwhelm a typical software person (I was a math/software tutor and teacher for years). For that reason, I included a few sentences about the impact of the comment syntax in Ada.

Sometimes, when involved with prior conflicts with several other people, it may seem as though "everyone" is tossing insults. However, it might also help to go on wikibreak, and rethink ways to avoid seeing other people's viewpoints as insulting. Could those people be merely expressing a strong opinion about the subject? Typically, when others instantly cite WP:CIVIL, then the situation has already escalated in their minds. I don't know what else to say to assure you that I am quite calm and happy. Just remember that many people think Wikipedia is far too over-simplified, or even "baby-fied" (as a "Kid-opedia"), and I hope that focus will ease your troubles and allow you to think of clever ways to include more complex issues without swamping general readers. Anyway, those issues can wait, and I just hope you get feeling better soon. -Wikid77 (talk) 12:27, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Greek letters

Mediawiki will convert some Unicode characters to canonical mappings. For example, U+1F71 will be automatically converted to U+03AC. The greek letters that will be automatically converted by Mediawiki are 0374, 037E, 0387, 1F71, 1F73, 1F75, 1F77, 1F79, 1F7B, 1F7D, 1FBB, 1FBE, 1FC9, 1FCB, 1FD3, 1FDB, 1FE3, 1FEB, 1FEE, 1FEF, 1FF9, 1FFB, 1FFD. --✉ Hello World! 08:20, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Greek proof verify

Hello,

I would appreciate your help in proof-verifying an rfc on meta-wikimedia here, since I consider you neutral about the talk and since you are not an active greek wikipedia user (as far as I know).

Thank you,

--Lady 6thofAu (talk) 14:33, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Naxos (Crete)

Hello Stavros! Is there a city on Crete, called Naxos (Crete)? The article might be deleted, see its talk page. We need some Greek expertise here. Warrington

Would appreciate your help (talk) 16:25, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

New you woud find an answer! Merry Christmas

Warrington (talk) 20:56, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Hi!

Yeia sou Stavro, User:3dAlcove suggested that you would be the man to speak with regards to improving the section cuisine on the Greeks article. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Kala Hristougena!--Xenovatis (talk) 08:59, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

I would like to ask infact if you couldn't take a look at the whole of the Greeks article for some suggestions on how it can be improved. Eucharisto.--Xenovatis (talk) 12:46, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Baba Ganoush/Ganache Controversy

Hello! The confusion between the terms "Baba Ganoush" and chocolate "Ganache," a French dish, is real. A number of years ago, when my sister purchased a black guinea pig, she proposed that we name it "Ganache" - after an ad she had seen for a "rich, chocolate ganache" product put out Dove. Curious as to what a "ganache" was, I came to wikipedia to search for information. I did not have the correct spelling at the time, so I had to search around, and as a result I came up with the article on "Baba Ganoush." I assumed that "Ganoush" was pronounced "guh-naash" and that there was a chocolate variant of the dish. As a result, I relayed this information back to my sister, and she named the guinea pig "Baba Ganoush," pronouncing the second word like "ganache." It was not until recently, a few years after the the guinea pig's death, that we learned of the mistake we had made and discovered that Ganoush and Ganache are two different words and two different dishes. This is the reason why I had remarked that Ganoush should no be confused with Ganache in the article on Baba Ganoush - in order to prevent further confusion on the matter.

4.254.222.1 (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 14:50, 24 December 2008 (UTC).

Please respond. 4.254.222.82 (talk)

I responded on Talk:4.254.222.1 -- the usual convention. It might make things easier if you'd register as a user. Anyway, here's my response:

Thanks for your amusing explanation. Nonetheless, Wikipedia is not a spelling dictionary. --macrakis (talk) 15:10, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Merry Christmas

Hello! I wish you and your family a merry Christmas! Καλά Χριστούγεννα και ευτυχισμένος ο Καινούριος Χρόνος Warrington (talk) 14:46, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Third opinion?

What you mind looking in at Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2009_January_5#Category:Cyclopses, and saying what you think? Have I been too pedantic? Septentrionalis PMAnderson 06:55, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Greeks

Yeia sou Stavro!

I wanted to ask if you had the chance to glance at any of the sources I had been posting and if you feel it would be possible to contribute some of the ones you were alluding to (anything from Kitromelides and Karakasidou in particular would be most wellcome). I hope you will take the time to glance at them (they overwhelmingly consist of work from academics and university presses) and let me know if you still think an article that reflects the continuity of culture in the Greek speaking world would not be quote serious unquote.-Xenovatis (talk) 06:09, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

I am checking out Peckham's book, I will order it from Amazon I think. It looks interesting and Peckham, an Oxford academic appears to be an expert on Greece to judge by his other work. All in all a great find. Geisler less so since he is a professor of German language in some US college I had never heard of. I don't see how his opinion should be taken as that of an expert. With regards to Hamilakis I was in fact browsing through this book earlier today, rather serendipitous that. He is lecturer in Archaeology at the University of Southampton. I will look through it more extensively and I hope you can point me to the parts you had in mind. Hopefully you will have a chance to browse through the sources at some point as I would be most interested in your opinion. I will be going through the two books you suggested. Take care.--Xenovatis (talk) 16:36, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Your sources are very interesting. The deconstruct the mythology that went into the formation of the modern Greek nation and the modern Greek identity. That is usefull but it is not contested that the nation and the nation-state are products of modernity. At the beginning of this discussion I had stated that the sources, those I read, do not argue for national or religious contintuity (more so since the Greeks of antiquity either Mycenaean, Classical or Hellenistic, did not constitute a nation to begin with). Rather they do argue for cultural and linguistic while being agnostic on the issue of biological.--Xenovatis (talk) 08:58, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Hamilakis, Yannis; Brown, Keith (2003). The usable past: Greek metahistories. Lexington, Mass: Lexington Books. p. 13. ISBN 0-7391-0384-9.{{cite book}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)

Given this range, then, what can be said in general about the usable past in Greece? What do right-wing dictators have in common with textbook writers or stamp designers, with professional historians or architects, with mainland villagers, island exiles or entrepreneurs? At the most basic level, what the chapters in this volume demonstrate is the danger of generalization as to how the members of a national community put the past to work. While Greek nationalism writ large clearly has religious and syncretism dimensions by which seemingly disparate elements are combined, bitter debates and disagreements continue. Although classical Athens provides a common point of reference and Orthodoxy a vital resource, the meaning of neither goes unchallenged (Stewart 1994,1998). Beyond this, though, the Greek cases assembled here demonstrate the importance of investigating what we have called metahistories. Instead of conceptualizing “the past” as an inert, exterior object and documenting the range of approaches taken toward it, the chapters together constitute an argument that communities and individuals in Greece do not simply “use” the past, nor they in thrall to it In all of the cases here, but in particular in the cases explored by Basta, Malaby, and Sutton, people in Greece demonstrate a reflexive awareness of the complex role that the past plays in organizing the present. and vice versa. This complex role, we would suggest, demands new and creative terms of description and analysis.

You are assuming that since the authors deconstruct the myths of Greek nationalism they consider it a wholly invented concept with no basis in reality. However you will note that they all, with the exception of that sentence by Roudometof, avoid making any such generalizations. In short we should focus on what the sources do in fact say not what we think they do. As an example Hamilakis briefly deconstructs the mythology of the American Revolutionary War, does this imply that modern Americans are unrelated to those of the late 18th c.? --Xenovatis (talk) 09:08, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

You might find it interesting and you will certainly find it profitable to take a look at these sources I compiled regarding the appropriation of the Greek cultural heritage by the West. Talk:Greeks/Sources Appropriation--Xenovatis (talk) 11:15, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

All authors mention the ethnoreligious component of Greek nationalism. I don't see why language alone should be a marker of ethnicity.

I am reffering to the tens of academic sources that explicitly refer to the Greek culture of the Eastern Roman Empire.The status of Greek as a language of high culture in the ERE and the OE Balkans is just a facet of that. It is relevant to the Greeks insofar as culture is one of the defining characteristics of any group of people and ethnic groups in particular (see Smith's definition of an ethnic group).

eg

Hastings, Adrian (1997). The construction of nationhood: ethnicity, religion, and nationalism. Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press. pp. 202. ISBN 0-521-62544-0.

As Christianity split into a diversity of ecclesiastical streams, the dualism implicit within its political agenda – nation-forming on the one side, universalism on the other was further accentuated. The classical eastern orthodox form stressing the power of the emperor was in principle universalist enough in its vision of Constantinople as the New Rome, but in practice Byzantium became a rather thoroughly Greek empire, excluding non-Greeks in Egypt, Syria or the west.

Again, one of the gaping holes in the Greeks article is the question of how people define themselves as Greek at different periods, and how Greekness was a fluid category that could be adopted by a large variety of people

Could you please elaborate on that?

Let me reiterate that I am not suggesting the article should reflect some sort of fictional national continuity but rather the academic concensus that the Greek speakers of pre-modern times constituted a pre-national group and posessed a proto-nationalism (the Romaioi identity). This is the position of Hobsbawm, Smith and Leousi, among others. We could then argue wether this was a continuation of the Hellenic identity. The scholars who argue for a cultural continuity are too many to cite here.

Teich, Mikuláš; Porter, Roy (1988). Romanticism in national context. Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press. pp. 99. ISBN 0-521-33913-8.

Roderick Beaton, Koraes Professor of Modern Greek and Byzantine History, Language and Literature

The cultural tradition of which the Greek language is the focal point has the longest unbroken history of any in Europe. The Greek state, however, was newly born out of the conflict of 1821-8 and was without precedent in the history of the Greeks.

Smith, Anthony Robert (1991). National identity. Reno: University of Nevada Press. pp. 28-31. ISBN 0-87417-204-7.

At the same time in terms of script and language, certain values, a particular environment and its nostalgia, continuous social interactions, and a sense of religious and cultural difference, even exclusion, a sense of Greek identity and common sentiments of ethnicity can be said to have persisted beneath the many social and political changes of the last two thousand years

Hobsbawm, E. J. (1992). Nations and nationalism since 1780 programme, myth, reality. Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press. ISBN 0-521-43961-2.

Yet the real Greeks who took up arms for what turned out to be the formation of a new independent nation-state, did not talk ancient Greek any more than Italians talk Latin. They talked and wrote Demotic. Pericles, Aeschylus, Euripides and the glories of ancient Sparta and Athens meant little if anything to them, and insofar as they had heard of them, they did not think of them as relevant. Paradoxically, they stood for Rome rather than Greece (romeosyne), that is to say they saw themselves as heirs of the Christianized Roman Empire (i.e. Byzantium). They fought as Christians against Muslim unbelievers, as Romans against the Turkish dogs. Nevertheless it is evident — if only from the Greek example just cited — that proto-nationalism, where it existed, made the task of nationalism easier, however great the differences between the two, insofar as existing symbols and sentiments of proto-nacional community could he mobilized behind a modern cause or a modern state. But this is far from saying that the two were the same, or even that one must logically or inevitably lead into the other. For it is evident that proto-nationalism alone is clearly not enough to form nationalities, nations, let alone states...p.133 Such was and is the murderous reduction ad absurdum of nationalism in its territorial version, although this was not fully demonstrated until the i 940S. However, mass expulsion and even genocide began to make their appearance on the southern margins of Europe during and after World War I, as the Turks set about the mass extirpation of the Armenians in 1915 and, after the Greco Turkish war of 1911, expelled between 1.3 and 1.5 millions of Greeks from Asia Minor, where they had lived since the days of Homer.

--Xenovatis (talk) 16:47, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

The full quotes are there in the Talk/Greeks section labelled sources, you didn't have to go to Amazon.Hobsbawm mentions proto-nationalism as he discusses the Greek case as an example in delineating the influence of pre-national secular identities (what Smith would call ethnies) in the creation of nations, in this case it is the Roman identity. We seem to differ on our readings of this part. I don't disagree that knowledge of the Ancients had diminished, in fact disappeared among uneducated Romans, but that is not a component of cultural but rather ethnic continuity. I don't argue for the later (due to tha name change from Hellenes to Romaioi) but the former.There are other sources in that page from academics claiming cultural continuity and there are several sources on the relevant page in Greeks talk (Religion) discussing Greek influence in Christianity. You are assuming that the only valid Hellenism is the Classical because that is why the West has decided forms part of its own heritage a position based on the same romantic classicist conception of Classical Greece as modern Greek nationalism.--Xenovatis (talk) 19:26, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

I am with you on that. In fact I had allready added the dichotomy between Hellene and Roman in the Eastern Roman section. We could explain more about the effect of the Dark Ages on the perception by Classical Greeks of the Mycenaean ones, some more on how the Mycenaeans viewed themselves (they didn't use the word Mycenaean for one), the shifts in the modern appropriation of the past (eg early in the 19th c it was only Classical Greece then Eastern Roman history was added under the name Byzantium which implied a Western perception of it etc). However it was my impression that you didn't feel these had a place in the article to begin with ("Homer and Thodorakis in a celebration of Hellenism=not a serious article"). I think they do as long as it is understood they were different ethnic groups, only one of which constitutes a nation (we), that were part of one linguistic and cultural world, the Greek. Somewhat similarly 10th c. Franks and modern Germans are all part of the Western world. --Xenovatis (talk) 21:09, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

National identity

What is silly is using a passage from an article written in the heat of the Kossovo conflict in Britain and ladden with the state sponsored prejudice of the time to impugne my motives. It is also interesting that you would feel threatened by the evidence I presented and succumb to the need to employ agonistic language. While at the same time using insulting language and bringing nothing in terms of arguments or literature to the debate. You made an assertion, that in effect there is no such thing as Greek cultural continuity. That is wrong. Please see below. There are more and fuller sources in the relevant page of the talk section. If you wish to discuss start thinking about framing some sort of argument and backing it up. I will not respond to further insults.Thanks.

Teich, Mikuláš; Porter, Roy (1988). Romanticism in national context. Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press. pp. 99. ISBN 0-521-33913-8. Roderick Beaton, Koraes Professor of Modern Greek and Byzantine History, Language and Literature The cultural tradition of which the Greek language is the focal point has the longest unbroken history of any in Europe. The Greek state, however, was newly born out of the conflict of 1821-8 and was without precedent in the history of the Greeks.

Smith, Anthony Robert (1998). Nationalism and modernism: a critical survey of recent theories of nations and nationalism. New York: Routledge. ISBN 0-415-06341-8. p.150 But his genetic and physical inference from cases of ethnic durability cannot account for the considerable variability, wide range and frequent absorptions and dissolutions of instances of ethnic affiliation, and the fact that many ethnies have undergone large-scale changes of culture and, in some cases, of demography. This is the case even in such a culturally long-lived example as the Greeks, where undoubted evidence of massive rupture of demographic continuity by the influx of Albanians and Slavs on the Greek mainland from the sixth to eighth centuries AD and of considerable, though not complete, culture change after the conversion to Orthodoxy, call into question the continuity and influence of a common ancient Greek biological and genetic inheritance on modern Greeks. p.191 Greeks, Armenians, Jews, Persians, Chinese and Japanese could be cited as examples of ethnic continuity, since, despite massive cultural changes over the centuries, certain key identifying components—name, language, customs, religious community and territorial association—were broadly maintained and reproduced for millennia.

McDonald, Maryon; Tonkin, Elizabeth; Chapman, Malcolm (1989). History and ethnicity. New York: Routledge. pp. 78-80. ISBN 0-415-00056-4. On the one hand, the centre of Greek-speaking culture moves east (to Byzantium); on the other, Greek culture (or rather Byzantine culture with Greek as the language of prestige and rule and Christianity as its basis) spreads throughout an empire that consolidated itself over most of the Balkans and the entirety of Anatolia until relentlessly compressed by Islam. The political demise of Byzantium did not, however, entail the disappearance of Greek-speaking Christian culture.

Gopal Balakrishnan (1996). Mapping the nation. London: Verso. ISBN 1-85984-060-4. p.79 There, however, the medieval or early modern state assimilated most of them, although a significant number of distinctive ancient cultures persisted through such processes of integration — Irish, Catabn. Norwegian and others (in Eastern Europe, the Greeks perhaps form an analogy)

Cuno, James B. (2008). Who owns antiquity?: museums and the battle over our ancient heritage. Princeton, N.J: Princeton University Press. pp. 79-80. ISBN 0-691-13712-9. The Greek question has a longer history in Turkey. Greeks have lived in Anatolia for millennia, especially along the Aegean coast. For a while, under Alexander, they dominated the land. And for all intents and purposes, the Byzantine Empire (the Eastern Roman Empire at the time) was Greek

William Rodarmor; Stephane Dufoix (2008). Diasporas. Berkeley: University of California Press. pp. 39. ISBN 0-520-25359-0. The spread of Roman power—first by the republic, then the empire—over the entire Mediterranean did not cause Hellenism to disappear as a cultural unity. After the empire split in two in 395, Hellenism actually blossomed in the Eastern Roman (Byzantine) Empire, where it became the principal cultural component, especially in the religious domain: The Great Schism of 1054 divided Roman Catholics from the Greek Orthodox. Even political power became Hellenized. The seizure of Constantinople by the Ottomans in 1453 ended the Byzantine Empire, but Hellenism survived in the Ottoman Empire.

Hastings, Adrian (1997). The construction of nationhood: ethnicity, religion, and nationalism. Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press. pp. 202. ISBN 0-521-62544-0. A Christianity split into a diversity of ecclesiastical streams, the dualism implicit within its political agenda – nation-forming on the one side, universalism on the other was further accentuated. The classical eastern orthodox form stressing the power of the emperor was in principle universalist enough in its vision of Constantinople as the New Rome, but in practice Byzantium became a rather thoroughly Greek empire, exclding non-Greeks in Egypt, Syria or the west.

Jeffries, Ian; Bideleux, Robert (2007). A history of Eastern Europe: crisis and change. New York: Routledge. pp. 49-50. ISBN 0-415-36626-7. Starting in the lace seventh century moreover the Slav-settled areas of Greece were gradually re-Hellenized by the Byzantine Empire, the Greek Orthodox Church and Greek-speaking merchants and colonists, aided by the establishment of effective new Byzantine military administrations known as themata (Browning 1975: 39-42). Thus even though the Peloponnesus itself was under Slav control for more than two hundred years, there was no question of any permanent Slavonization of Greek territory.

Jusdanis, Gregory (2001). The Necessary Nation. Princeton, N.J: Princeton University Press. pp. 122. ISBN 0-691-08902-7. p.122 Along with Moisiodax, Rigas Velensrinbs (he too a VLich), Nikolaos Zervoulis, Dimitrios Darvaris, Nikolaos Piccolos, and Arhanacios Vogoridis had all assimilated into Hellenism at the time. During much of the eighteenth and first half of the nineteenth centuries, Hellenism served in the Balkans as an ecumenical cultural ideal, very much like the role it played in the eastern Mediterranean of the Hellenistic period and of late antiquity. Although not supported by military might as was the case in Alexander’s time, it attained enormous prestige. Indeed, Greek culture along with Orthodoxy and the Ottoman administration served as the three unifying forces in the Balkans. Hellenism expanded throughout the region because Greeks had dominated the four areas— religion, economy, administration, and intellectual life—that constituted the shared substratum of Balkan life (Tsourkas 1967: 212)

Hastings, Adrian (1997). The construction of nationhood: ethnicity, religion, and nationalism. Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press. pp. 126. ISBN 0-521-62544-0. Waves of Slavs coining from the east settled in the Balkans across several centuries, mingling with the existing inhabitants, Vlachs, Illyrians, Greeks in the south, Germans in the north-west. In some areas they were incorporated into existing peoples so that many modern Greeks are Slav in ethnic origin as are many modern Germans. But through the central areas of the Balkans it was the language and cultural identity of the Slav incomers that prevailed incorporating earlier inhabitants within it.

Ahrweiler, Hélène. "Hélène Ahrweiler - The Hellenic Europe: Problems of Greek Continuity". www.myriobiblos.gr. Retrieved on 2009-01-21. Ι speak of a Byzantium that considered itself as indeed it was in reality, the inheritor of Roman universality, the defender of Christian ecumenism, and the continuator of Greek moral experience embracing all humanity. Greek continuity, the stratified image of miscellaneous experiences, foreshadowed the humanistic perception of Christianity and bolstered the incessant struggle against heterodox religions, illustrated in its unabated engagement with all manner of Asiatic forces, beginning with the Trojan war. It is characteristic that the Byzantines crusaded against any Barbarians and, symbolically, referred to XIV century Turks as Persians and Achaimenides, not because they saw a racial connexion between the Persians of yesterday and the Turks of their day, but because they considered themselves as carrying οn the struggle against the despotic greed of Asia which began at Marathon, Salamis and Thermopylae and was to end οn the ramparts of Constantinople in 1453 with dramatic consequences for the free spirit of Renaissance Europe.

Skoggard, Ian A.; Ember, Melvin; Ember, Carol R. (2005). Encyclopedia of diasporas: immigrant and refugee cultures around the world. Berlin: Springer. ISBN 0-306-48321-1. by Robert Bowman The disastrous military adventure of 1922 emptied Asia Minor of its 3,000-year old Greek and Orthodox Diaspora. Turkish pressure has reduced the Greek population in its European areas. Egyptian nationalism sent most of the Alexandrian Greeks back to the homeland during the l950s, while Communist pressures adversely affected Balkan Greeks and the decline of die Soviet Union and its successor staes brought some 300.000 Russian Greeks to the Mediterranean. … Both Greeks and Jews were the only people who were able to leave their homeland or birth city (natio) and maintain the identity through subsequent generations and both did so through the strength of their respective cultures (The phenomenon of empire as reflected in the experience of Carthage and Rome is of a different order. It is noteworthy that their respective Diasporas disappeared when the mother city lost its political control. ) Both people received a boost during the Hellenistic period: The Jews when they fell in love with Greek logic and the Greeks when they adopted Christianity, a variant of the Jewish religion. The national identity that emerged in the ancient times from the mix of language and religion was a unique kind of supranationalism that became a model for new peoples who entered Western civilization in the Medieval and modern periods.

Sutton, Susan Buck. "Culture of Greece - History and ethnic relations, Urbanism, architecture, and the use of space". www.everyculture.com. Retrieved on 2009-01-23. Susan Sutton, Chancellor's Professor of Anthropology, Indiana University-Purdue University, Indianapolis A strong sense of a common ethnic identity emerged among Greek speakers of the independent city-states of the Aegean area in the Bronze Age and characterized the city-states of the classical period and their colonies in the Mediterranean and Black Sea regions. It endured over two millennia as these lands were ruled by the Hellenistic, Roman, Byzantine, Frankish, Venetian, and Ottoman empires, and as the area became ethnically heterogeneous.

Van Steen, Gonda Aline Hector (2000). Venom in verse: Aristophanes in modern Greece. Princeton, N.J: Princeton University Press. pp. 233-234. ISBN 0-691-00956-2. (footnote) According to Leontis, 80 n.30, the name romaios (romios in the vernacular) attached itself to the occupants of the Greek peninsula at some unspecified time after the Romans destroyed Corinth (146 BCE). The name then became the self-designation of Greek inhabitants of the Eastern Roman Empire. Romiosyni is a vernacular Greek coinage of the Late nineteenth century, technically the untranslatable normalized form of the adjective romios. On the intricacies of defining Modern Greek identity, see further Kitromilides, Europe, Lambropoulos; and Tzaovas, Nationism and Transformations of nationism.

Lewis, Bernard (1994). The shaping of the modern Middle East. Oxford [Oxfordshire]: Oxford University Press. ISBN 0-19-507281-2. Only a few minorities—Coptic Christians in Egypt and Zoroastrians in Iran and India—remained faithful to the old religions and preserved some knowledge of the final phases of their ancient languages and cultures. These remained unknown outside their own communities. Two of the peoples active in the ancient Middle East had survived with a continuing identity and memory and with a large impact on the world. The Greeks and Jews were still Greeks and Jews and still knew Greek and Hebrew. In these ancient yet living languages, they had preserved immortal works of religion and literature, which passed into the common inheritance of mankind.

Joseph Zajda (2009). Nation-building, Identity and Citizenship Education: Cross-cultural Perspectives. Springer. pp. 3-4. ISBN 1402093179. In short, the above elements denote a Western model of an ‘ethnic’ perception of the nation and national identity. Meselidis (2008) argues that modern Greek idenlily is not ‘purely a recent ideological construction or fiction of governments’, since national independence in 1821, in ‘order to create and maintain the nation’, but is based on historical sentiment, myths, memories, values, and traditions in Greek ethnies pre-dating the modern nation. Meselidis draws on Smith’s definition of national identity in terms of ethnicity (Smith, 1998, pp. 170—198). There are strong cultural bonds and continuities between modern Greek national identities and the pre-modern (pre-l500 CE) cultural and historical Greek ethnic communities.

--Xenovatis (talk) 18:36, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

I suppose I assumed you were reffering to my idea. Sorry if I misunderstood your point and I agree we are converging. I would like to hear your opinion on the parallelism between Greek and Western civilization. And yes it is like the ship of Theseus, I know that metaphor. And no I don't propose that we treat them as undeferrentiated Greeks or Greeks at all for that matter. One was a Hellene the other is a Neohellene which is an ethnicity different to both Hellene and Romios and furthermore a nation, like the former two weren't. I will read the article on identity and change. It looks interesting. Again I apologize if I gave offence.--Xenovatis (talk) 19:39, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

Another thought I would like your opinion on. Untill the 13th c. the main ideological justification for a political state in Europe (what is today Europe, not what was meant then by the term) was the appropriation of the Ecumenical legacy of Rome. So similarly to people today trying hard to "prove" ethnic continuity since nationalism is the dominant macro-ideology they then tried to "prove" their continuity with Rome. In short posesssion of a piece of land was not legitimized by presence there since time immemorial but by being the inheritor of Rome, better yet being Roman yourself. This pre-occupation with self-identification as the main component of assigning an ethnic group would then seem to be a product of nationalism in and of itself, since it would be absent by definition in that past.--Xenovatis (talk) 23:26, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

Names of the Greeks article

Hello. You backed out my addition to the Names of the Greeks article. I had added:

• Matthews, Elaine; Hornblower, Simon; Fraser, Peter Marshall, Greek Personal Names: Their Value as Evidence, Proceedings of The British Academy (104), Oxford University Press, 2000. ISBN 0197262163

I fully realized that it wasn't directly on topic, and seemingly contrary (what the Greeks called themselves, rather than what others called the Greeks) but after reading though the work, I thought it would be of tangential and related interest. Apparently, you didn't, sans discussion. Well, best wishes. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc (talk)

Hi Stavros. Thanks for your kindest reply. Your points are well taken and I had thought of them before. I had also thought there was a arguable common thread after reading most of the book but I carelessly let it slip into the article with a mixed mind, which you've clarified for me. I could make some points, but realize it's not a big deal and on slippery ground. Thanks for your kind help. Happy New Year 2009. Bests. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc (talk) 02:39, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

Bernal the Nth

Per "Removing personal attacks and incivility." 'I think this is indicative of our contrasting attitudes' (I hope you understand). Of course, "This is controversial, and many editors do not feel it is acceptable;" (I might have to read the policy sometime). No need for fuelling edit wars, though, in any case.

However...I'm sure there's something in there about being patronizing to other editors who account for their actions on their own just fine, as well! (kidding) 3rdAlcove (talk) 00:31, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Doner kebab

Hi, I am bothering you at the suggestion of User:Warrington. Could you please take a look at Doner kebab and see what's happening there under the hands of an anon user with a dynamic IP, who has been active since February 26? Your editorial judgment and, if necessary, intervention will be appreciated. --Zlerman (talk) 14:25, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Makraki, me th vohtheia sou tha prospapsoume na ksanakanoume h synxwnefsh metaksu "Döner", "Gyro" kai "Shwarma", kai exw olla tis phges pou theleis. :)

Also I am trying very hard to transform the article into "something", while it was a German-Centric article before, and the real thing was like a "footnote", going as far as claiming it WAS invented in Germany...

It is starting to look like something now. Again, your help will be appreciated.

--85.99.77.96 (talk) 14:47, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

I´m out of town right now and can´t edit very conveniently, but.... It seems to me that 85.*´s contributions are constructive and helpful, though they can be improved in various ways. The evolution of Doner Kebab seems to go something like this: Cag kebab (horizontal skewer of sliced meat) -> Turkish doner kebab (vertical, served on plate) -> doner kebab sandwich. We seem to have sources (though I haven´t checked myself) for the 19th century Turkish origin of the vertical version. There is a German-language source (which I also haven´t seen) claiming a 1960s Berlin origin for the sandwich. It would be nice to do better. I remember clearly eating souvlaki in Greece served on pita bread with onions, tomato, and tzatziki in the 1960s and I would have guessed that the sandwich form of both doner and souvlaki is older than that. The business of splitting up into three articles, doner, gyros, and shwarma, is as far as I can tell pure POV but a POV that is defended by many editors. -- Macrakis 08:10 GMT 2 March 2009

Vallahades

Hi! I have a question here. Can you help me? Regards, --Males (talk) 04:15, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Ancient Greek Grammar

Thanks for your comment -- I was really only trying to tidy up what was already there when I made the change I did but you are entirely correct about the translation of the infinitive into English -- I have changed the text and provided an example where the infinitive in Greek is an infinitive in English too. Mhardcastle (talk) 08:13, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

License tagging for File:Victorinus.gif

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Kokoretsi and kokoreç

I agree with you that these obviously need merging and placed my thoughts on discussion of Kokoretsi.71.252.96.130 (talk) 18:33, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

hummus etc

Thanks for the note. I'm glad to see that you have replied to the person claiming Greek ancestry both for himself and hummus.-- Peter cohen (talk) 22:57, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Baklava

I've been working on "cuisine articles" for two years, and every time I post something on such article talk pages, I want to discuss for improving articles, not to generate a social gathering. You seem to act as a manager of the article, and I'd like to appreciate the effort. However, you marked my comment as unworthy to be on there which I disagree. The talk page is filled with naming disputes just like other Middle East/Mediterranean dishes (eg. hummus), so I want to lighten up the mood with "sweetness" and obesity related to the dish.--Caspian blue 19:16, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Names of the Greeks

I ran across this again this month. It hasn't changed much since we last saw it; do you still subscribe to your judgment on the talk page? Septentrionalis PMAnderson 22:09, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

And now it's up for a Featured Article Review. Do feel free to say if I'm being unfair. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 16:06, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

They changed system. That's the active page; when it's closed, they don't have to move it, and if the same article goes though FAR twice, the new nomination will be at /archive2. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 22:01, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Hi

Thanks for your comments on Souliotes (big story, on overreverting that page, totally different POVs in Albanian and Greece, thus it becomes too difficult to create a long-standing consensus). Are you intrested to take part in a disscussion on Talk:Cham Albanians, it is another contest for those extreme POVs in those countries (which are reflected in editors here). I would like to have your opinion.Balkanian`s word (talk) 16:35, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Lingua franca

Dear Macrakis,

I recall your help with reaching compromise on the talkpage of Lingua franca concerning the section about Azeri earlier this year. In light of new sources, the discussion flared up again and the two parties are in a complete disagreement with each other. May I bother you to look through the available information here and suggest the best way to present it in the article? I would greatly appreciate your help. Parishan (talk) 02:11, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Which and that

"Hi, you recently edited the custard article, replacing a 'which' with a 'that'. Even if we are to follow the prescriptive grammarians who recommend 'that' for restrictive clauses, in this case it wasn't even a restrictive clause, so only 'which' is idiomatic. cf. which and that." --macrakis (talk) 14:09, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Um, sorry, I guess. I'm American. It just sounded better.
All I remember is that this dilemma caused me a lot of headaches in writing classes, and the whole matter was never explained in as much detail as found here. I suppose I'll just ignore this issue from now on, as we're getting into quite a bit of discussion over trivia. — Nahum Reduta [talk|contribs] 23:43, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Λάπηθος

This largely historical article is currently at Lapithos. I moved to make the eta an e, in part because I had come there to see if another article was talking about the Lapithae, and was reverted.

Would you go to Talk:Lapithos#page move and give one side or both a reality check? Septentrionalis PMAnderson 12:49, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Archaeological Site of Great Importance

The article Archaeological Site of Great Importance has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

This is a redirect of the general, Archaeological Site of Great Importance to the specific: Archaeological Sites of Great Importance (Serbia) which seems a little odd to me. Jezhotwells (talk) 12:00, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{dated prod}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{dated prod}} will stop the Proposed Deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. The Speedy Deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and Articles for Deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Jezhotwells (talk) 12:00, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Article Hummus Dispute Levant as Arab

Hi. Placing a WP:NPOV dispute tag is not disruptive and any editor can do, if they do it in AGF matter and bring the issue to the article's talk page. One word can be very important when it is the primary issue relevant to the article. Please let's continue the discussion on the article's talk page Talk:Hummus#Dispute_Levant_as_Arab Thank you, Igor Berger (talk) 20:08, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Sorry about being slow to respomd on the article talk page. Please continue there. Thank you, Igor Berger (talk) 21:34, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Massey theory

I also noticed Phaistos Disc decipherment claims - hopefully we can leave it there! I really hate these arbitrary Wikipedia rules :-) Jpaulm (talk) 18:54, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Articles for deletion nomination of Archaeological Site of Great Importance

I have nominated Archaeological Site of Great Importance, an article that you created, for deletion. I do not think that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Archaeological Site of Great Importance. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time.

Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. Jezhotwells (talk) 01:38, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

' just because it exists elsewhere on the Web'

I didn't mean that it exists elsewhere on the web, I meant that most of the links in the resources section are already in the external links section of the article: They are listed twice. The links to commercial tools, which I see you also restored, should be removed in any case according to WP:ELNO point 14. - MrOllie (talk) 20:22, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

I completely agree. Additionally you write "please discuss on Talk" but the topic has already been mentioned on talk page (last June), so you discuss on talk page to prove that these links conform to WP:EL if you want them in the article. Calimo (talk) 07:15, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Mezze

Hi Macrakis. I was wondering if you wouldn't mind responding at Talk:Meze when you have some time. I'd also like to (very politely) suggest that you read WP:REVERT. I'm trying to make good faith additions to these articles, and its very demotivating to be summarily reverted without discussion. Thanks. Tiamut^talk 19:03, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Okay, I understand that Clifford A. Wright may not pass as an expert for etymological information, but he is a WP:RS when it comes to mezze, generally-speaking. He is an author and so-called expert in Mediterranean foods. Would you mind if I reincluded some of the information you deleted, but this time in other sections, and attributed to him if its extraordinary claim? I'd also like to add more from that source, as the article is very poorly sourced right now, and there is a request for citations to be added. If Wright is not considered an RS for it, who can be? Tiamut^talk 19:23, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Hmmmm ... I think he is a borderline case actually. The book is described as part cookbook and part academic reference [8]. It also seems to include quite a lot of prose, and he shows familiarity with a lot of foreign language terms related to the region's cuisine (unlike some other cookbook authors). Could we see if other editors think differently about it? Should I ask for more opinions at WP:RS? Because there is a lot of useful information in that book, much of which I know to be true. I do think some sources, even if not the most authoritative of expert sources, are preferable to none. Tiamut^talk 19:54, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Hi Macrakis. I think we are misunderstanding each other a bit. I am suggesting Wright be used for information related to history of the dish and different mezza arrangements per the different groups who prepared such dishes. I concede that the etymological information is not necessary. I'm asking if its okay to use him for information other than that. I don't want to trouble myself to write more using Wright, if you are going to delete it straight out because of your opinion of the reliability of the source. PS. Could we continue any discussions regarding that article on the talk page there? Thanks. Tiamut^talk 18:29, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Voskopoja and is local Albanian inhabitants

Voskopoja was an Albanian Christian city ,here a vigorous Albanian movement developed , it involved comparison of various alphabet used to express the Albanian language ..The academy of Voskopoja proved very influential in Albanian literary and of national Albanian consciousnesses …Theodor Kavalioti of Voskopoja 1718-1797 director of New Academy published a scholarly study of Albanian of 1200 Albanian words.Kavalioti wanted to setup a press in Elbasan too, he want in person to escort the heavy boxes …..Another four language vocabulary by Dhanil Mihal Adam Haxhi in 1794 included 235 sentences in Albanian regarding daily life The Albanians: an ethnic history from prehistoric times to the present By Edwin E. Jacques http://books.google.com/books?id=IJ2s9sQ9bGkC&pg=PA281&dq=voskopoja+albanian+culture#v=onepage&q=voskopoja%20albanian%20culture&f=false--Albanopoli (talk) 10:15, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

i like to know you opinion about this other origin of the name “Moschopolis, ou ville des Mosches, peuplade pélasgique qu'on croit avoir donné son nom au Musaché.” [9]--Artemisa ne adenice (talk) 19:46, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Lokma or Loukoumades

Pws eiste kurie Makraki?

Would you please join us for a discussion about the naming of the article Lokma or Loukoumades

Your opinion does matter a lot!

S'euxaristoume poly in advance! :) --Emir Ali Enç (talk) 03:25, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Kai meta thelw na sas ewxaristaw, alla it would be perfect IF we can show the same performance on Burek and Kaşar.

PS: I highly respect the solution proposal you came up with, VERY good idea... --Emir Ali Enç (talk) 14:21, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Çhei Keftaa & Şhqambi Tsorbea

Other than those two amusing Syntaxes that are non existent (and you will sure have understood, it only underlines a recurrent problem on Wikipedia) we also need you on Çiğ köfte and Shkembe chorba... As I actively continued the discussions you started there.

With the happiness of seeing you again among us, --Emir Ali Enç (talk) 14:31, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

PS: Have you seen my work on Döner Kebab?

Greeks

Since you have shown interest in the past I would appreciate your input on rewritting this article. I would like to start with the History section. Any ideas? Thanks.--Anothroskon (talk) 15:41, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

Mots D'Heures: Gousses, Rames:

At least you and I are interedted in the book. I saw the Guardian article, and decided to add it, and found that it was already on Wikipedia. I prefer Mots D'Heures: Gousses, Rames: for the title, rather than Mots D'Heures. What would you say to a change? Maybe N'souris deserves a separate article? Pustelnik (talk) 22:09, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Caramel Colour and GMO

In response to this query, the point is to inform readers that Caramel Colour may be produced from genetically-modified material. Some countries do not have mandatory labelling, and it's of interest to some readers. Yes, the same can be said of other products too. The wording is lunky and needs improvement, but the point shouldn't be removed. As for your comparison with pariah countries, I'm not sure if it's a comment on maize specifically (which is not only genetically-modified in the US), or a more general comparison, in which case I don't see the point. There are broad points of broad general interest in foodstuffs, such as whether they are vegetarian, vegan, and genetically-modified. Whether they could contain produce from a particular country is too detailed to include in the article. Greenman (talk) 07:42, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Two reasons. The properties grown on irrigated land or grown from Japanese seed are not particularly interesting, while contains GMO ingredients is. Also, unlike the first two properties, the latter does not apply to all vegetable products. There are very few commercially-available GM products. Greenman (talk) 18:59, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Sure, feel free to copy to Talk and let's discuss further there. Greenman (talk) 21:08, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Chips

(copied from my talk:) Hey! Thanks for your comment. :) Actually I'm in favor of the status quo, so I oppose the merge. Currently there is no Chips article -- it's a redirect -- and that's what I want to keep. --Tkynerd (talk) 21:44, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

"Baklavia"

Hi, I notice you reverted the last anon edit as vandalism. I think the user is becoming a positive nuisance. I have now posted a level 2 warning on the user page. I suggest that we continue up through level 3 and 4 and go to the vandal board.--Peter cohen (talk) 20:10, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

TFTR. If you go to Wikipedia:Vand#Warnings, you'll see a box on the left with template subst strings for each of the warning messages. I've just posted Uw-vandalism2. Assuming he continues as is without attampting any explanation, then Uw-vandalism3 in the sunstring would be next. (BTW, I often forget to put the page name in, so I recommend previewing.) Next is Uw-vandalism4 assuming the person is persisting in the behaviour and hasn't disappeared for a month so that the case has gone quiet. Vabdalism4 is the last warning. There are options such as inserting a further comment a the template pages.

After that, if the person persists, the nex stage is o report tham by going to Wikipedia:AIV#User-reported and editing that section. Instructions appear with a choice of subst strings to use depending on whether this is an IP or registered user. You plug in the user name and an explanation.

It is expected in most cases tha you will have gone up the warning stages. If the case is exceptional, you can skip some stages. (I often skipt vandalism1 as I feel some regard a warning as a reward and repeat the behaviour because of the warning. This means that by the time I post a warning, they're definitely a repeat vandal and I favour a definite warning rather than "you may have made a mistake when experimenting" message.) When I encounter a sockpuppet of a well-known vandal, such as User:Runtshit who is Roland Rance's stalker, then I just go to the vandal board without any warnings and explain why I've gone directly to the board.

I hope this helps.--Peter cohen (talk)

Kitchen cabinet

Agreed about pictures of kitchen cabinets, but searching through Wikimedia commons doesn't show a lot of stuff to include in this article. Any idea where to get better pictures of kitchen cabinets?--Tomwsulcer (talk) 03:44, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

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Hummus again

Hi, would you mind clarifying at Talk:Hummus whether yuu would be content for the record to be included if it is explained as a symptom of the ownership dispute per my edits to the article page or whether you still feel it should be out altogether.--Peter cohen (talk) 15:44, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks.--Peter cohen (talk) 22:31, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

I've raised one thing I'm uncertain about on the page.

As far as cutting back the ingredients is concerned, we can chop back a bit. I think it is still useful to leave an indication of what ingredients were in the region when. Knowing that lemons probably didn't reach the area until the current era will allow readers to conclude that the Pharoahs did nto have what we recognise as hummus. Identifyign that there are no early records of tahini could be similarly useful. Knowing that Cicero was named after a chickpea is a different matter. Also be aware that in certain quarters anything I say with the remotest connection to Israel/Palestine will be regarded as suspect. (You will see some overlap in the participation at Talk:hummus and Talk:Ariel (city).) Therefore changes you make are less likely to be reverted than changes I make.--Peter cohen (talk) 00:27, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

The Falafel Incident

I see that you have made a edit to the Falafel page. And on your edit you added "restore well-sourced historical material". I was hoping to see how referring to Jewish people as zionist ties into the history of Falafel ? As well, referring to the Jewish people as a whole as immigrants. Also the article cited reads "adopt certain Arab models that they perceived as related to Jewish existence in the mythical, Biblical past" which is nothing but a put down to someones beliefs / religion. Does any of this have to do with the history of falafel ? And do you not find any of it demeaning ? klhrevolution 20 - January - 2012 —Preceding undated comment added 04:19, 21 January 2010 (UTC).

I think you have misconstrued the paragraph in question. Besides the technical issue of the "mythical, Biblical past" being sourced from a reliable source (authored by an Israeli, if I am not mistaken), I don't see what the "put down" is; it does not say that the Bible is mythical but rather than the early immigrants perceived a connection to the way they imagined the Biblical past to be. Or are you suggesting that falafel is documented in the Bible? --macrakis (talk) 14:48, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Gyros

If you remember, IPA is new to dictionaries and reference.com is still adding IPA to it's definitions. The original data states the "correct" pronunciation (the one that source intends). Compare to other dictionaries. Travel and eat gyros. They just copied the pronunciation from gyroscopes probably. -Craig Pemberton 20:12, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Paul's Pastry Shop

Judging by your contribution history, you may be the right person to make a determination about this article, so I hope you don't mind my asking. See my talk page for some background on this article and its recent deletion and restoration. I looked at the article that's been returned and I'm on the fence about whether this is advertising/non-notable or not. I note from the version of King cake which you recently cleaned up that there are a number of different kinds of king cake and that it is unlikely that the one that this particular shop sells is "the" king cake, as they seem to be trying to suggest. (I believe that the article's creator is associated with the shop itself since that editor has no other edits.) Essentially, I wonder if you think this article should be taken to an articles for deletion process? I'm just finding it hard to believe that this is such an integral part of Mardi Gras history as they're claiming. Your thoughts would be very welcome. Accounting4Taste:talk 17:22, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Paul's Pastry Shop

An article that you have been involved in editing, Paul's Pastry Shop, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Paul's Pastry Shop. Thank you.

Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. Accounting4Taste:talk 18:21, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

And thanks for your input. Oddly enough I may also be AfD'ing Alliance Precious Metals in the near future, and I note you have history with that as well; your input on that will also be very welcome should you care to provide any. Accounting4Taste:talk 18:21, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Turkish delight

Dear sir and wiki colleague, please try not to repeat this action of yours: (Revert to revision 339957459 dated 2010-01-25 17:27:08 by Feťour using popups) as it was a mistake. The Czech expression of Turecký med does not mean the Turkish delight or Locum. It is a hard, hardly biteable stuff that has nothing to do with the gell-like T. delight. Thank you for your understanding--Feťour (talk) 17:41, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Oh, I am very sorry, I have been a bit inattentive. Please accept my excuse ☺ --Feťour (talk) 18:13, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Laura Kelley

I agree; notability is borderline at best, and the article would need a severe rewrite to make that clear. Do you want to take it to AFD, or shall I? I'll back it either way. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 21:17, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Right - I'm leaving the office right now, but I'll set it up once I'm home. Probably in about three or four hours...

PIAR has to do with the recent BLP controversy, basically. That's what it grew out of. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 23:32, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Hey, sorry...I sort of fell asleep in front of the TV last night. I'll do this today sometime. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^{Che dicono a Signa?}_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 16:19, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Changes to iPad

Hey, these have been reverted, can you discuss them on the talk page? Thanks. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 08:07, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

Sauerbraten

Hi Macrakis. I changed the category to conform to de.wiki (see de:Sauerbraten). However I see from the German article that there are several regional variations of which Rhenish is one which they have whole section on. I have no particular objection to it being reverted or, perhaps better still, having the Rhenish section translated and added from de.wiki. Gruß. --Bermicourt (talk) 17:13, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Guide Bleu

A tag has been placed on Guide Bleu requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about about a person, organization (band, club, company, etc.) or web content, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable. You may also wish to consider using a Wizard to help you create articles - see the Article Wizard.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}} to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the page does get deleted, you can contact one of these admins to request that they userfy the page or have a copy emailed to you. Minor4th (talk) 22:23, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Qubba

The article Qubba has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Not a dictionary

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{dated prod}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{dated prod}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. The speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. GregJackP (talk) 19:02, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

Map

Hi. The said book also has considerable written information about ethno-linguistic groups, esp chapters I and II. It is, nevertheless, approximate and still debated. Eg we do not know how similar all the Illyrian languages were, or the relation of Getan and Dacian to Thracian propper, etc. Hxseek (talk) 10:30, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

Re:Flan

Thanks for let me know. In fact, I suggested the merging after searching about what a flan really means in Britain, because I was trying to categorize créme caramel images on Commons (wich are all still categorized as flans (pie)). I started thinking that they were two different foods, but when I read the article about flan I came wrongly to the conclusion that both were actually the same. I was then a little confused and even I went to the IRC channel to ask about that, but nobody told me about my mistake. Thank you again. Lobo de Hokkaido (talk) 14:02, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Cool Whip

I see your edit on May 16 removing updates regarding Cool Whip. Cool Whip changed their formula in April 2010 to now include skim milk and light cream. I have screen shots, letters to Kraft and emergency room bills to validate the change.Dcuadros (talk) 02:25, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Perry Gregg

Not sure: it's borderline at best. I'm on a laptop in a hotel room at the moment, but I'll work on an AFD tomorrow night, once I'm home and have access to a more stable connection. --!!!!

Fasolada

Just edited Fasolada and came across your name again, obviously great stomachs think alike :-). Read you user page. Many believe that Wikipedia has now become dominated by too much jargon and is unfriendly to new editors while at the same time becoming too rigid. So even though its usage is increasing as a supplementary source of information, its rigidity might be the eventual end of it. Politis (talk) 09:17, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

You are now a Reviewer

Hello. Your account has been granted the "reviewer" userright, allowing you to review other users' edits on certain flagged pages. Pending changes, also known as flagged protection, will be commencing a two-month trial at approximately 23:00, 2010 June 15 (UTC).

Reviewers can review edits made by users who are not autoconfirmed to articles placed under flagged protection. Flagged protection is applied to only a small number of articles, similarly to how semi-protection is applied but in a more controlled way for the trial.

When reviewing, edits should be accepted if they are not obvious vandalism or BLP violations, and not clearly problematic in light of the reason given for protection (see Wikipedia:Reviewing process). More detailed documentation and guidelines can be found here.

If you do not want this userright, you may ask any administrator to remove it for you at any time. Courcelles (talk) 03:14, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

iPhone pronunciation

Thanks for correcting the pronunciation of iPhone. There's also iPhone (original), iPhone 3G, iPhone 3GS, and iPhone 4. I could correct the iPhone part myself, but I'd like you to look over the numbers and letters please. Thanks, HereToHelp ^{(talk to me)} 22:52, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

Thanks! HereToHelp ^{(talk to me)} 23:08, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

Notability

You asked an editor to review our notability guidelines before adding content to an article. You might want to review it yourself as the guideline explicitly "does not directly affect the content of articles, but only their existence." It's a common misconception. ElKevbo (talk) 03:01, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

DYK for DirectHit

— Rlevse • Talk • 00:03, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Salting The Earth proposed improvement

Under Talk:Salting_the_earth#Effectiveness I have put some proposals for article clarification to prevent a recurring misunderstanding. Kildwyke (talk) 04:24, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

Common name

Macrakis, thank you for reviewing my Falafel contributions ( synecdoche specification of metonym classification ). I'd like to ask about a common name classification. Gaza massacre is seemingly kept in article's lede 1st para because it is allegedly a common name in the Arab world for the Gaza war, supported by this ref. More refs could be provided with leaders and commentators using the term. I'd applicate your insight, please share your thoughts. AgadaUrbanit (talk)

This does seem a weak reference for such a serious accusation in the lead. KantElope (talk) 00:44, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Cheese puffs

Hi,

Are you sure you meant to revert my edit to cheese puffs, or did you mean to undo the anon edit? Your revert removed my citation template and section heading changes as well, normally seen as improvements.

Thanks, WLU (t) (c) Wikipedia's rules:^simple/_complex 16:15, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

No worries, thanks. WLU (t) (c) Wikipedia's rules:^simple/_complex 18:45, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Micropsychoanalysis

Hi, can you please have a look at the article micropsychoanalysis? You left a tag to improve the standard English over a month ago. I've been working since in the article and I think it has been improved much. Please let me know your opinion or suggestions and delete the tag if you think the article deserved. Thank you. --Thespanishdub (talk) 17:34, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

RE:Cuisine of Lazio

Hallo Makrakis thanks for your post! Do you believe in telepathy? :-) I found this (almost) orphaned Category on Friday, and I used it in several articles. Altough Italian (from Rome), I know English well enough to notice this error, so I already asked on Friday for a speedy change of Category name. Cheers, Alex2006 (talk) 10:19, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

A short notice: someone is opposing the change of Category's name. Maybe you want also to add your opinion on Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_September_3. Ciao, Alex2006 (talk) 05:41, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Norumbega

Good link there, thanks. Dougweller (talk) 05:06, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

arc and DNA watermarks

Hi, You have removed new about arc example because author was the 31st to decode it! Where is the list of authors ? Maybe he was first who did it in arc ? For me this example is very intresting. Regards --Adam majewski (talk) 17:26, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

Thx for answer on my talk page. You are right. This is not the best example of Arc use, but from the other side it seems to be better than "Hello world" example. I think that when you remove something which is not the best you should give better one. Now you have done only one half of good work. I know that you are an expert in programming so expectations for you are greater then for well-meaning but ill-informed enthusiasts (:-)) Regards --Adam majewski (talk) 08:47, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Re:Italian Cuisine

Hallo Makrakis

thanks for your post! First of all, about the language: you are right, I am Italian, so you are most welcome to correct my English born on the shore of Tiber. Well, about Leonardi, Faccioli reports an excepts of his book with the recipe which, nota bene, is a sauce for pasta. The book of Faccioli is a commented anthology of the Italian cuisine through the centuries, but the author does not confirm what Leonardi says. I read the book of Faccioli, and there this tomato sauce is chronologically the first one to be reported. Moreover, on the web there is this Italian source, which I judge as reliable. What is your opinion? Thanks for your answer, Alex2006 (talk) 14:44, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

OK, thanks! I will check it. Cheers, Alex2006 (talk) 15:01, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

Ossobuco

Please see the Ossobuco talk page. Lechonero (talk) 23:23, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

List of Freemasons

I understand, but it's not just me and certainly just not you. We've had a lot of trouble on the list and if I hadn't reverted it someone else would have. Just find a source and you'll be fine. kcylsnavS{^screech_harrass} 22:58, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

More on Ossobuco

I made more changes to Ossobuco. I also left a comment for you on the talk page. Have a look when you get a chance. Lechonero (talk) 01:57, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

Semicolons and colons

I hope you're not offended by this, but I thought you might benefit from this website on when to use semicolons and colons. Lechonero (talk) 14:39, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

I neglected to provide the website. Here it is: http://srjcwritingcenter.com/punctuation/semi-colon_colon/semi-colon_colon.html. I'm doing this only because you seem to overuse colons and semicolons. Lechonero (talk) 19:30, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

I'm sorry you feel offended but punctuation rules in English are pretty black and white. Lechonero (talk) 20:39, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

I'm done

Like I said before, I'm done editing this article. If you want to load it up with unnecessary colons and semicolons then go ahead. Lechonero (talk) 12:35, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Please stop sending me messages. Lechonero (talk) 15:24, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

OK, I'll answer here: please try to be more respectful of your fellow-editors. --Macrakis (talk) 18:19, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Shakshouka

Geia sou. I'm still wondering giati that Israelian is changing the real origin of the Shakshouka dish. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Midozeus (talk • contribs) 17:37, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Micropsychoanalysis deleted from es

The following link may deserve your attention es:Wikipedia:Consultas_de_borrado/Micropsicoanálisis. This article has been deleted from es because of not being neutral and being a primary source instead. The source cited by this article, at least in its Spanish version, did not fulfill the minimal requirements for an article in this area. --Rapel (talk) 22:14, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Tahini

Dear Macrakis,

hi i am jim from recettelibanaise.com it is about tahini recipe, people when search for tahini they want to know how to make it, because it is little hard to find in the commerce and their is no recipe for this on the net. you have only what to make with it, and not how to make it.

We cant put the tahini recipe on wikipedia for copyright problem and that's why we put a link and many people find this very useful and they are very thankful.

The recipe is available in many language, it is not about spamming and not for ranking high (we are already no1 in what we do).

We love wiki and we are interested with the food project you are working on too, it is a great idea from your part.

Best regards jim —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.91.212.74 (talk) 14:33, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Jim, thanks for your interest in Wikipedia. We have a pretty strict policy about external links, which generally does not approve of links to recipes, so your link does not appear appropriate. Also, our conflict of interest policy frowns on people promoting their own sites, books, or articles, so even if it were appropriate, it should be added by someone unaffiliated with your site. --Macrakis (talk) 23:52, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Invitation to join WikiProject Bacon !

Oh won't you please consider joining WP:WikiProject Bacon? :)

• Wikipedia:WikiProject Bacon has been created, and you are cordially invited to join, and list yourself as a participant at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Bacon#Participants!
• You may also feel free to add the userbox - {{User Bacon}} - to your userpage, to indicate your participation in the WikiProject.
• The Wikipedia:Bacon WikiCup is also ongoing, more info about that at User:SuperHamster/Bacon Challenge 2011, and User:SuperHamster/Bacon WikiCup 2011.

Thank you for your time, -- Cirt (talk) 08:52, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Design Research (store)

The article Design Research (store) has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Notability concerns

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{dated prod}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{dated prod}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. The speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. jsfouche (talk) 04:52, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

The original article did not have as much information as it does now.

If you are still constructing the article, try the (underconstruction) tag. You have already removed the flag. Also the phrase "D/R has continued to have an outsized reputation" may not be NPOV. Also the phrase "in 2000, a survey of influential design stores named D/R as number 1, though it had been closed for 22 years" has a weak reference. It is a statement in the cited article, but it has no source verification. With the recent changes, I am more aware of the notability, but still have concerns as mentioned. jsfouche (talk) 14:42, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

Kuragano-shuku

I understand why you put a red link in Kuragano-shuku for "Karasugawa." I removed it because I created a link for Karasu River, which follows the naming conventions for English articles for Japanese rivers. I'll create a redirect from Karasugawa to Karasu River, and I'll fix the links if I do not receive a reply from you in the next day or two. Douggers (talk) 02:53, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

DogeMarco: Byzantine Successor

I'm a bit new to wikipedia, and recently edited the article on the Ottoman Empire and wrote that the line " the Ottoman Empire was, in many respects, an Islamic successor to the Eastern Roman (Byzantine) Empire." needed more proof. However, I more accurately wanted to say that it is not a widely held idea and would be considered controversial in an academic setting. In other words it is more of a Fringe Theory . Although my principal problem is that I am new to editing and don't know how to properly state this in a memo after an edit. Any help is appreciated, and please feel free to correct any of my work; no hard feelings. Many Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by DogeMarco (talk • contribs) 03:50, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

DogeMarco (talk) 04:00, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Gillette

Hi Macrakis, here was my reason for revert to keep two 'see also' links:

• Gillette (brand) = Gillette (brand)
• Razor and blades business model => Freebie marketing
  

cheers--Look2See1 t a l k → 23:47, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Hi, didn't understand Freebie marketing was a duplicated 'end point' - sorry. Perhaps Razor and blades business model is best 'see also' as gives 'Razor' intro to 'Freebie' article ?--Best---Look2See1 t a l k → 01:44, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Merger of symbolic computation with computer algebra system

You may be interested in Talk:Symbolic computation#Merger with computer algebra system. Yaris678 (talk) 17:18, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

another one

Hey Macrakis. Speaking of Fondue, if you're ever in the mood to shake things up at Vienna sausage, which I've been watching for years (I believe I first got there by cleaning up some vandalism, way back when), please have a look. It needs reliable sources in a big way, which I've never been able to find online (and I've looked). It's one of those articles which may look clean and kind of helpful at first blush, but I've come to believe it must carry some meaningful flaws, owing to dodgy sources and how they've been pulled together in the text. Gwen Gale (talk) 12:32, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Phyllo vs. filo

Hi Makrakis, I am concerned about your statement in the edit section of Phyllo, in which you claim that the etymology of a word does not matter in wikipedia, just the most popular (even if misspelled) word matters. Your assumption that filo is correct because of popularity is also false, siting google search as your proof. Phyllo is spelled that way on the most popular brands in the supermarket. But that is not my concern, my concern is that a meaning of a word is lost when you take away it's original spelling. For example the meaning and origin of compound words formed from two separate foreign words can be determined by their spelling, eg. Photography. By taking away the spelling, you take away meaning and origin which is crucial in writing. For example if you spelled champagne, shampane you lose every connotation, meaning and origin of the word. Would you want to discuss this further, because I know there is a movement to simplify the English language by taking out the foreign influence and spelling of words? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.89.137.38 (talk) 18:48, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Fondue and wontedly

Thank you for rewriting the lead and eliminating this issue intirely. I was getting tired of the pointless arguments on the talk page —Alison (Crazytales) (talk) 14:43, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Börek

ناصلسكز افنديم؟

Would you please see my post below yours @ Talk:Börek and would I please get the luxury of having a real reply this time? :)

İyi çalışmalar,

--Emir Ali Enç (talk) 18:14, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Yes, you are pretty right! :) But my bad too, I made a small typo, which I corrected just now! (the "س") :) I can't say my αρχαία ελληνικά is much better too...

First, on the Börek discussion, 2 things I'd like to mention:

• 1 The Tatars of Turkey do cook both of the Şibörek (Çiğ börek) and the Töbörek on the saj, (Çibörek fried and Töbörek on the convex side) but it is the (sedentary) Turks who adapted it to the oven. Still, outside of cities with big Tatar communities (Eskişehir, Konya, Polatlı etc.) the Töbörek is a very rare commodity (I'll correct the article accordingly).

• 2 Talking about folding the layers of the Börek into a roll... Hum... Well, I guess the most prevalent and basic household börek of modern Turkey would be the "Su Böreği", that is delicious, but the shape is very primitive per se: a square of unfolded layered fillos! I also guess most Turks innately know (just ask, when you'll be there) that the "rolled" version (effectively requiring an oven) is of Balkan origin, nowadays marketed in Istanbul under the name "Boşnak böreği" (Bosnian Börek). Then you have the "Sarıyer Böreği" which is according to my taste quite delicious and crispy (a lot of starch in the dough, like the baklava), and somewhat fatty too, which is also a thin roll. Now the establishment claiming to have invented it traces itself to the first years of the Republic, but still, Sarıyer and Büyükdere were two places prominently inhabited by Greeks until the 1960's.

I'd love to mail you all that I could for a reference, and yes I am a VERY trustable palate, but how exactly can I "mail" you?

I'll try to be brief in here:

As you know, as "restaurants", it all depends on what would you fancy, but since you have already eaten at Vasil Karakalem's old Garaj Lokantası (my father used to go the real "Garage" as you did) and come in march you will be head on into the Kalkan season (black sea Turbot, which I am sure may have tried before).

I guess one of the best places to eat it is at the Kör Agop (Hagop the blind) a very old Armenian restaurant in Kumkapı, (the oldest one over there, actually) that is now run by Danyel, the grandson of its founder Agop Inciyan, that happens to be both a cordon bleu and a good friend of mine. Their homemade lakerda and topik (that famous Armenian meze) are also supreme they also have a fish soup that comes at the end of the meal that is made from fresh fishes as soon as you order, another highlight. Sidenote: Have you tried our delicious Stuffed Mussels?

The two other places I would recommend you to eat the Kalkan would be first "Balıkçı Sabahattin", a world famous place,(I guess you may have dropped by too) that excels in any kind of fish in any season, and of course the relatively new Balıkçı Kahraman, on Rumelikavağı, that has the uniqueness of doing the Kalkan in the Tandır... Very nice too, indeed.

Now as you know, Istanbul has a plethora of restaurants of all kinds, from offal to octopus and if you would like to navigate out of the Istanbul cuisine (İzmir/Cretan cuisine, Ayvalık/Mytilenian cuisine, Adana-Mersin cuisine, Mardin/Assyrian cuisine, Dıyarbakır cuisine, Urfa cuisine, Black Sea cuisine Hatay/Turkish Syrian cuisine etc. etc.) the choice is very vast in Istanbul, and some places in some well known or lesser known neighbourhoods are unbelievably good, (almost as good as the province they represent), and in the ideal, you have to try them all! Of course I will be delighted to help you there, please do not hesitate.

PS: I enjoyed reading your essay ""Original", "traditional", "authentic", and other distracting terminology" and I came up with the idea of a Wikiproject for the Cuisines of the former Ottoman countries, (where everyone relentlessly claims his/hers version to be "the original") to be included in WikiProject Food and drink, what do you say?

Autant dire, j'espère que lire tout ceci ne vous a pas trop fatigué ni pris votre temps, et si ainsi, veuillez accepter mes plus profondes excuses!

Deepest regards,

--Emir Ali Enç (talk) 23:09, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

¿Dö/oner kebap/b(ı)?

Well on that right after I saw your question, I called a few friends I really trust on both of two things for the sake of solidifying my ground.

• 1 Turkish Cuisine (Including street cuisine)
• 2 Turkish Grammar and linguistic knowledge

And we concluded the following:

-In Turkey, we almost exclusively use the short form "Döner" for ANYthing impaled and rotating vertically (including sweets like lokum, cezerye etc.) hence our request for Gyros and Shawarma to be incorporated on the same article.

-As soon as we "open" the word, want to be more specific on the one made with meat etc. (ie: the kebab) we unanimously and naïvely use "Döner kebabı", although a "Döner kebap" sometimes escape us. But in the sake of being more correct, we say "Döner kebabı". You can see it on the Turkish wikipedia: http://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Döner (written pretty much naively without much debate on the name).

As another non academic reference for you to look could be a localized google search in Turkey only with both of the orthographies: - "Döner kebabı" returns 99.000 results : http://www.google.com.tr/search?hl=tr&lr=&cr=countryTR&safe=off&client=safari&rls=tr-tr&as_qdr=all&tbs=ctr%3AcountryTR&q=Döner+kebabı&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai= - "Döner kebap" returns some 67.200 results :http://www.google.com.tr/search?hl=tr&lr=&cr=countryTR&safe=off&client=safari&rls=tr-tr&as_qdr=all&tbs=ctr%3AcountryTR&q=Döner+kebabı&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

-Now who uses the form "Döner kebap"? I think first and foremost that is the "internationalized" form of the what is known as a "Döner" in Turkey, and it has made quite a "homecoming" to Turkey maybe fueled by the return of a lot of Turks from Germany (who mostly have poor Turkish grammar skills) in the last ten years.

Ultimately, ask any Turk here, he'll tell you that "Döner kebabı" is the grammatically correct version, and the one that "should" be used, but will agree that it is not always the case.

Cheers!

--Emir Ali Enç (talk) 16:01, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

PS: Will you kindly help me restoring the "ö" they took out from "Döner"... I'm not a computer nut at all, and have a lot of trouble communicating with other fellow wikipedians. :((

Follow on from yesterday:

-I know this is the English Wikipedia, and english orthography doesn't have any umlauts, I'm with you there, but I think first and foremost wikipedia is a commonwealth of the entire world, and we should try to see how the döner is known to the world over, not just to english speaking nations. (ie: clearly with an "ö")

The Greek language uses a different alphabet, so there will be always differences and conflict in transliteration, but, Turkish, since 1928 uses the same.( I would be quite upset for example if someone write my last name without the "ç"... :) )

Parenthèse: Now why do i still insist on the stupid umlaut? Well, no matter HOW it is known in English, it is OUR national cuisine, ("our" includes you too, kirie Makraki) and I really wonder what do dishes like the Knödel and the Klöße have in extra... :S

-Yes I'd say exactly that: "Buradaki döner kebabının eti iyi değil!" (Have you eaten Döner in Bursa by the way?? :)) )

Of course I can help you, I'd be delighted!

Here you go:

Bir döner, lütfen! OK

Bir tane döner verir misiniz? OK

Bir tane döner istiyorum. OK

Usta, bir porsiyon döner! (Don't use "dostum", only used in Turkish translation of US movies, but with a "dönerci", always use "Usta", with a waiter, say "kardeş!" If younger than you, call him as "Genç!" or "Delikanlı!")

Usta! Nefis dönerinizden biraz alabilir miyim? (Your previous sentence actually meant "can I get a whole section of your yummy döner?"... I don't really think you mean that much!! :)) )

PS: If you also want to eat a decent dürüm döner in the center of European Istanbul, try any of the "büfe"s in Taksim next to each other. (Starting next to the Ayia Triada Church) "Bambi", "Kızılkayalar" and "Çılgın Dürüm" are all really good, I'd say. The last one has "sucuk döner" which is a must of street food in Istanbul, I'd say. Their "kaşarlı döner dürüm" is equally good, and ask "patatessiz lütfen" if you don't like the french fries they put in the dürüm, (as in Greece) I hate it, as it takes all the flavor of the meat in. :S

PS2: If you'll be on the Asian side, there are better places I'd like to counsel you, just ask!

--Emir Ali Enç (talk) 15:24, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

My turn

Now my turn to ask you somethings:

First of all, is this form of communication we use now (writing in each other's talk pages) what you would call "mailing"? Or is there another way, as in mailing directly to your ISP inbox? (No seriously, I'm not good at computer stuff... :S)

Also, I myself will be in Greece pretty soon, (February) as I will have to cross the whole country by car from the Turkish border to the Ηγουμενιτσα pier in order to take the ship to Italy, where I got business. Now that makes me like 1200kms of (one way) highway in Greece only, and I'd like to know what do modern Greeks eat generally at the roadside, or if there is any famous roadside stops not to be missed (that only locals do know, as in here)... I'd be also really happy if you could help me just a bit! :)

Thanking you in advance,

--Emir Ali Enç (talk) 15:49, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

Quote

Please provide quotation for your changes here: [10]--Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 20:49, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

The text you added to my talkpage is a bit murky, is it the exact same quote from the source? is there something else you haven't added? --Supreme Deliciousness (talk) 21:17, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Lycos talk page

Greetings! I have a procedure question. You responded recently to an inappropriate discussion on the Lycos Talk page. (It made claims of ilegal acts, etc.) After an investigation, it was determined that the several commenters in that thread were actually sockpuppets of the main commenter, who has been blocked. Is it permitted to remove the sock-puppeted comments or strike them out or similar? I don't care if we leave the initial claim in there (with my response) because they have a right to their opinion (I don't know if it's libel, though someone else may care), but having abuse piled on with sockpuppets is a bit much. I don't know what the procedures are in this case and I am happy to take it to the correct forum. (As I said in my post, I am a Lycos employee and Wikipedian and so I respect that my opinions may be biased and treated as such.) Note that while I watch the article, I don't edit it beyond trivial things as I am aware of policies against such things. JRP (talk) 15:52, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Stavros! I should have suspected that the only experienced users watching a Lycos page would be a former employee... In that case, I respect that we may both have conflicts of interest, but can you point me where I can find the correct policy for this sort of thing? I can drop a note on one of the WP:SOCK admins and see what they say. (You probably don't remember me; We were on some of the same projects, but they were large projects. I was one of the Ops managers when you left. Now I do a number of things.) JRP (talk) 16:03, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

I don't feel it's important to delete necessarily, but sockpuppeted comments should be marked as such. I can just make a remark at the bottom, I suppose. But I don't like to pollute talk pages unnecessarily. JRP (talk) 18:10, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Poros

WRT to your objection to mentioing sailing in and around Poros, I find it odd that, for instance, "Main sights" is okay and therefore presumably 'encyclopedic' and included, even though it by it's very nature must mention sights and interests and places to see, which surely "turns WP into a travel guide" in your terms, but sailing in and around Poros is out and bad and must be completely deleted.

Have you ever visited Poros? Do you actually know the place or is this just some kind of remote view of what is and isn't applicable? Sailing is one of the main interests in Poros and probably the reason a good number of people who ever visit the place go there. Why then is it 'forbidden' to include something about this in the description of the place?

I thought the intent of WP was to share knowledge and interest...the greatest collection of knowledge on the planet. Your view comes across as wanting to clip WP back to a view *you* have about what should be shared.

After all, just think of the poor old user. Why might they go and look up a place in WP? To find out how many people live there of the type of stone under the ground? Possibly. Or to find out more about the place, what to see and do in and around the place and is it worth a visit? IMHO much more likely. Does that make WP a travel guide? Not really. Does it make it of use to the general user, I'd suggest that it does.

I should say I don't live in Poros, I don't have a travel business in Poros, I stand to make nothing from adding this, it's just it's a lovely place, sailing is the principal acticity in the summer and so it seems worth adding some information for other sailors and linking to an external source where there's further information, e.g. *not* turn WP into a nautical almanac which I'm sure would be the claim if the info was in WP.

Seems mere mortals can't win...you will just come and edit-out anything that you feel doesn't meet your definition of what should be mentioned about a topic. Sad day IHMO. Iainh (talk) 21:22, 20 January 2011 (UTC)Iainh

Phyllo

I had my rollback rights removed by Toddst1 because I was dealing with Phyllo and the disruptive editing by Camoka4 (he is also 85.103.96.133)... A Macedonian, a Greek. (talk) 23:39, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks a lot for fixing the Hummus article

I wanted to thank you before, but I was blocked. The article seem completely unpolitical now. TFighterPilot (talk) 17:03, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Vandal1 - Welsh rarebit

Welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is welcome to contribute to Wikipedia, at least one of your recent edits, such as the one you made to Welsh rarebit, did not appear to be constructive and has been reverted or removed. Please use the sandbox for any test edits you would like to make, and read the welcome page to learn more about contributing constructively to this encyclopedia. Thank you. I suggest you read reference No.2 in line three of the article, before vandalising this article again. Rgds, --Trident13 (talk) 16:12, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Plastic Surgery

Hi I noticed you completely removed the additions I made; I erred on calling it a verb when I meant adjective, but there really was not a good reason to remove the whole thing. I'll change it back with the correct terms since the sentence is a mess right now. Thanks! --Cpt ricard (talk) 02:05, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Gyro(s)

Nice to hear from you. I think the arguments are rather evenly balanced, and, yes, tempers rise ... You cite three dictionaries, two of which are available to me on line. They are both American. The OED isn't, and I'd like to know exactly what it says and whether it cites a non-American source. (I have the OED 2nd edition on CD-ROM, and the word isn't in there at all, so it must be a recent addition to the database I guess.) Maybe you could paste into an email to me, or indeed quote in full in the discussion, what the OED says about this word? I ask you here first because the citation was given quite a long way back in the discussion, and I don't want to complicate it unnecessarily ... Andrew Dalby 16:10, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

I replied on my page. Andrew Dalby 18:32, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Sac vs. saç

I've consulted four dictionaries; all give saç, but one also lists sac as an alternative. When meaning hair, the stem does not change in the case forms: saçı, but in the sense of sheet metal, we have sacı.

Yes, I'm in Turkey. A lot has changed indeed in the last 30 years, I'm afraid not all for the good: more cars, noise, pollution, buildings without charm, and street robbery. Since the Central Bank dropped six zeros from the currency (one lira now = 1000000 old lira), prices may be more similar to what you remember than to what they were 10 years ago. A relatively recent real improvement is that there is no lack of drinkable Turkish wines now; my favourite grape varieties are Kalecik Karası and Öküzgözü. For eating out in Istanbul, suggestions can be found in the Istanbul Eats blog and the Cafe Fernando blog (favourites summarized here), and for instance here. If you're used to the Greek cuisine, Turkish cuisine is not particularly exciting, so quality is more important than for most tourists; but restaurants come and go, and what was excellent last year may have become worse than mediocre today, so it is advisable to check for recent reviews. I don't know your preferences, otherwise I might (perhaps) be able to give more specific advice. If you haven't been here for so long, a renewed visit to Hagia Sophia and Topkapı palace are obvious things to do; also, Süleymaniye mosque was recently reopened after a long restoration, and I like it far more than the Blue Mosque where most tourists go. It's rather chilly here at the moment, so ferry trips on the Bosphorus or to the Princes' Islands are not likely to be enjoyable right now.  --Lambiam 18:02, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Authenticity and the "pizza effect"

Reading pizza effect, I couldn't help but think of your essay about so-called authenticity in culinary matters. Just in case you don't know it yet, I wanted to call your attention to this interesting article. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 21:40, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Vilayet

Please respond to this discussion.--— ZjarriRrethues — ^talk 17:18, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Zecharia Mayani

The article Zecharia Mayani has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Orphaned BLP has insufficient visible verifiable references from reliable sources to establish notability

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. The speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion.   — Jeff G.  ツ 19:28, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Dürüm and Taboon

Hello, hope you had a good return... :))

Well to get to the point, I was working on Adana kebabı when I noticed (with pain, suffering & all) that someone merged "taboon bread" with dürüm, which is as encyclopedic as merging "naan" and "hamburger" in the same article... (one is a kind of bread, the other is a kind of sandwich, technically) Who, when, why? I do not know... But the important thing is... HOW can we remedy to it? What is to be done?

Finally, on another aspect, do you second Lambiam's comments that "Turkish cuisine is not exciting"?... :)

Friendly,

--Emir Ali Enç (talk) 15:40, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

So... We basically lost the "dürüm" page?... :S What should we do, seriously?

As you know, I am also for a merger rather than splits, as long as there are not obvious content forks, I mean I would in no way support a merge of "parathi" and hot dog, neither would you, I guess... Now, if we should merge all the unleavened flatbreads, regarldless of the cooking method (where lavaş and tabouna differ), why don't we include "tortilla" too?

I also read in the article that the Taboun bread uses wild yeast or something (is leavened)... Now that brings us another problem about merging lavash. (Berberi bread, technically, could enter here)

Now how do I proceed to de-merge? --Emir Ali Enç (talk) 17:31, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Lavaş

A lavaş is basically consisting of wheat flour & salt, is unleavened, and (always) done in a clay oven... Anything sharing this attributes can go on the same page to me... (and vice versa)

BUT: If you do it on a sac and give it a rounder shape, it is a "yufka". Now we can put all of them in the "flatbread" supercategory, along with Tortilla etc. and we'd give the details of each. That would spare us a lot of nationalist disputes also... :)

About the dürüm:

• How can I start a new article? (I know I suck in these things)
• Isn't that merger by User:AgadaUrbanit "illegal" since carried on without any sort of consensus? Of course, I do think they were out of good faith, but the user seems ignorant about the subject, hence the frankenstein-ish result of the article.
• Is there a way to "revert" the merge? Or to carry it into arbitration?
• If yes, do I have to be sitting in front of my computer all day to defend the case or to wait for the verdict?

This said, I hope I am not importuning you with all that, you know how analog I am... Have you looked at my most recent work, Adana kebabı? (currently under construction)

Kindly,

--Emir Ali Enç (talk) 18:37, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Ayran

Hi,

You might want to check out what is happening on the Ayran page and how I'm handling it... I'm also thinking to suggest a merge of Doogh and Ayran, as I guess you would do it... :)

Sincerely,

--Emir Ali Enç (talk) 02:04, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Well actually I think there was a slight misunderstanding: our little conflict with the fellow user wasn't at all about "is Ayran a Turkish drink or not?"^*.

As a matter of fact, it was about ""Ariani", "Dhallë", "Tan", "Duğ" etc. are just different names for the same beverage" which I upheld, against ""Ariani", "Dhallë", "Tan", "Duğ" etc. are names of perhaps related, nevertheless different beverages", which the fellow user upheld.

Sincerely,

--Emir Ali Enç (talk) 16:47, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

* Entre-parenthèses, after I added any Turkish governmental or business chamber related sources, I always referred to them with words such as "it is thought that" or "it is probable that" etc. by default of any other source I could my hands on at this time. As a note, any other source for any other origin will be highly appreciated and is more than welcome. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Emir Ali Enç (talk • contribs) 16:44, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Some sources about the name, as you previously asked in the article

Sevan Nişanyan, in his etymological dictionary of the Turkish language, is somewhat unable to unfold the word's radica in the Ayran entry, but points to the book Divan-i Lugat-it Türk [y. 1070]; ed. Besim Atalay TDK 1941 of Mahmud el-Kaşgarî for the first written usage, in 1070.

(Explicative list for the original abbreviations, ours being "Kaş xi").

Cheers!

--Emir Ali Enç (talk) 17:06, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Snopes and Chop suey

Hi! I found something about chop suey

In this edit you say that you needed to "put good sources" first, so you definitively said that chop suey did originate from Taishan

But Snopes has something interesting: http://www.snopes.com/food/origins/chopsuey.asp

"Although some sources posit a Cantonese dish as the true origin of chop suey, others note that what is called "chop suey" in the U.S. is virtually unknown in China and bears little resemblance to its supposed progenitor — so much so that, as Grace Zia Chu, cookbook author and teacher of Chinese cooking, wrote in The Pleasure of Chinese Cooking, when she was riding in Shanghai after World War II she spotted a neon sign that read: "Genuine American Chop Suey Served Here.""

Looking through the references list, I don't know from exactly which source the author got the info, but if I find more sources that say definitively that the Taishan origin is disputed, perhaps I could rewrite the lead, and state which sources say what WhisperToMe (talk) 03:07, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

I think the idea is that whatever the Snopes author read may be implying that there is even less resemblance between, say, Chop suey and the Taishanese dish, versus Chicago pizza and Neapolitan pizza. Anyway, I found something interesting:

• Chop Suey: A Cultural History of Chinese Food in the United States.
• Ku, Robert Ji-Song
• Gastronomica; Fall2010, Vol. 10 Issue 4, p93-94, 2p

I'm going to open a resource request on this. Perhaps this may offer a clue on how scholars view the history of Chop suey WhisperToMe (talk) 18:53, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Lambs

[11] I was a bit surprised at this and wondered which jurisdictions you're referring to specifically. It is true that in Australia and NZ "prime lamb" means lamb in prime condition, ready for slaughter. Te prime lamb industry refers to the practice of raising high grade lambs for sale to meat processors. The term arose in the 1960s I think, replacing the term "fat lamb" which is still in use by older farmers, but is no longer acceptable for marketing reasons. If you're referring to a quality grade carcase, it is by definition, used for meat. I'm unaware of prime lamb referring to lambs kept for future wool production, but am happy to be enlightened. Moondyne (talk) 14:20, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Human migration

I'd appreciate it if you'd look at the history of recent edits here, with me and an IP going back and forth over suggestions that mass migration wasn't what happened in certain cases being removed by the IP with comments such as "(The burden of proof lies with those seeking to rewrite history. Until a new consensus is reached by the community the traditional view must remain, not speculative theories." which I think are a misunderstanding of our NPOV policy. Thanks. Dougweller (talk) 16:36, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

The stone

Hi Stavros,

I reverted your changes to the article on the "stone", but forgot to mention that I had added a note on the Talk page. If you trawl through the history of that article, you will see a rather infantile edit war was going on. The war only came to an end when I referenced British legislation. Martinvl (talk) 15:14, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

Category:Ottoman Jews‎

Thanks for the clarification on that, had to take a look at country just to check! What would you say about the Crimea. It that a country or region? Also, is Galicia (Eastern Europe) a country? Also is the Category:British Empire considered to be a country? Chesdovi (talk) 14:49, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

Dolma

Hi. You have reverted my referenced information, claiming it's unlikely and unsourced. Please, explain why my source does not count as a source and what is your knowledge of Urartian to make you think that the Urartian origin is unlikely. Thank you. Nikoghosyanm (talk) 08:10, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Zeibekiko:talk (Babiniotis say it, too)

(I just transfered our dialogue from zeibekiko:talk page for more intimate discussion).

Sorry, your English is very hard to understand. --Macrakis (talk) 14:33, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

Καλα, τωρα κοροιδευομαστε μεταξυ μας νομιζω, απο ολο αυτο σταθηκες σε μια τελευταια φραση την οποια εγραψα απο kεκτημενη ταχυτητα, εμ παση περιπτωση εγω βλεπω σε λενε Μακρακη και εισαι και Ελληνας οποτε μπορουσες να με ρωτησεις και στα Ελληνικα αν σενδιαφερε τοσο πολυ τι εννοω στην τελευταια φραση, ειναι οξυμωρο ολο αυτο! Εμενα με ενδιαφερει να καταλαβαινουν οι πολλοι και στην τελευταια φραση ειναι αυτονοητο πως εννοειται η Συνεισφορά των αξιοπιστων πηγων .Επισης εγω εχω μητρικη την Ελληνικη γλωσσα και στο κατω κατω, δεν ειναι κανεις αναγκασμενος να κραταει το αγγλικο λυσσαρι γραφοντας στο πληκτρολογιο. μετα τιμης! (Επισης μπορω και γω να πω οτι βρηκα μερικα λαθακια τωρα που κοιταξα το κειμενο σου to debate the origin of the Zeibekiko dance from first principles αλλα αυτα γινονται!) --Roins (talk) 15:20, 27 July 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kordax (talk • contribs) Ο χρηστης εχει απολυτο δικιο σχετικα με το ζειμπεκικο αν βρεις καποιες πληροφοριες και συ σχετικες με την αυθεντικοτητα καλο ειναι να τις αναρτησεις , αλλα οχι βασισμενες σε μονομερης αναφορες , αντικειμενικες ειναι προτιμοτερο ...

Odd edit

Am I right assuming this edit was an odd mistake? --jpgordon^{::==( o )} 15:55, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

Links

Go ahead and revert if you feel strongly enough.andycjp (talk) 23:57, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Globalize/Greece

Template:Globalize/Greece has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. — This, that, and the other (talk) 07:29, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

Levant

Hi, why did you remove the Arabic names for Levant? Your edits have deleted (without justification) previous valid edits by other users. That's why I reverted to the previous version. عمرو بن كلثوم (talk) 15:11, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

cause of dispute

• Hello. I found out recently, that you become the reason of removal of one of the most reliable sources in article zeibekiko. The truth is that I opposed in the point of is a derivative of...,because it is already referenced from the source of Babiniotis, Georgios (1998). "ζεϊμπέκικος". Lexiko tis Neas Ellinikis Glossas. Athens: Kentro Lexikologias. p. 709, but even like this the byzantine dictionary is a stronger source about the origin of the world of zeibekiko Herodotus (c.484 - c.424 BC) refers to the word bekos as does the Byzantine dictionary, to mean..., but once again does not matter. So, I propose to be entered the phrase Herodotus, refers to the word "bekos" as does the Byzantine dictionary, to mean (bread) (ψωμι) and the word "zei", as a derivative of ancient Greek god Zeus, of the Olympian twelve (Centre for Dance Studies (Saint Peter, Channel Islands), Centre for Dance Studies (St. Peter, Jersey) - 1992. Dance studies: Τόμος 16). With this point of view, it will not be opposed with your source of Babiniotis Georgios. Such a thing like this, would be acceptable (total consensus) by other and the significant information on article, total referred. If you still oppose with this remarkable proposal, I would like to find out which is the really reason of your dispute, otherwise I will cite it. -cheers --Merovigla (talk) 20:02, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
• No problem for this. It will be referenced as Phrygian (otherwise it is mentioned as Phrygian) and the zei → it means ζεϊ, (this is such a detail) → for the dance of the zeibekiko it is mentioned also, of course, that it was danced for worsiping God Zeus ,for asking bread and Im gonna sort out it, too. Dont forget that it is about an affair as referred It would be the same thing with Greek mythology. -It is a WP:Reliable source with expertise in history and philology --Merovigla (talk) 20:29, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Zeibeks

You didnt notice what is talking about. iN THE SECTION says: Zeibeks (plural) concerning Greek nationals (plural) its talking about the group. --Merovigla (talk) 00:56, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

See your talk page. It is about a family named Zeibek. [12]. --Macrakis (talk) 14:19, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

ANI Notice

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is Repeated insertion of copyrighted material and harassment. Thank you. Note: this is nothing you did wrong--it's me reporting User:Gisling for copyvios and now harassing you across multiple articles. Qwyrxian (talk) 23:15, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

Incremental search - editing left out too much detail

Your editing out my notes - that described (briefly) the fact that web based searches used non-local resources as opposed to local resources - was over zealous. The casual observer will now be left wondering why web searches use more resources. It is a very important point and has been covered in numerous blogs and criticisms of Google Instant for example.