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::Huangdom looks like a bad transliteration. Places where princes rule aren't "Princedoms", same with Rajahs and "Rajahdoms" ([[rajahnate]] should be the right term). [[Huang]] doesn't appear to be of much help. –'''[[User:Howard the Duck|<font color="#FFA500">H</font>]][[User talk:Howard the Duck|<font color="#FFA500">T</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Howard the Duck|<font color="#FFA500">D</font>]]''' 07:30, 26 December 2015 (UTC)
::Huangdom looks like a bad transliteration. Places where princes rule aren't "Princedoms", same with Rajahs and "Rajahdoms" ([[rajahnate]] should be the right term). [[Huang]] doesn't appear to be of much help. –'''[[User:Howard the Duck|<font color="#FFA500">H</font>]][[User talk:Howard the Duck|<font color="#FFA500">T</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Howard the Duck|<font color="#FFA500">D</font>]]''' 07:30, 26 December 2015 (UTC)

== nanogrants for Wikipedia editors, esp in this Tambayan ==

[[File:Nanogrants for Wikipedia editors.jpg|thumb|Nanogrants for Wikipedia editors]]

our Demented Mother, [[Mila del Sol]], 93, (who really does have [[dementia]], this time) told me on Christmas Day that i was [[wikt:demented|demented]] for not allocating funds specifically for the purpose of training “[[Poverty|the poor]]” on how to improve Wikipedia.

so as to Honor Our Mother (as if we had a choice), The [[Mila del Sol]] & [[Eddie Romero]] Fund for Community Development is herewith compelled to offer unlimited nanogrants to qualifying organizations and persons (esp those in [[Wikipedia:Tambayan Philippines]]), for the purpose of training “the poor” on how to improve Wikipedia. Details here: http://leoromero.org/nanogrants-for-wikipedia-editors

Thank you, and

[[Mabuhay]]! - ''[[Monty Python's Life of Brian#Cast|LoRETta]]''/[[User:LeoRomero|LeoRomero]] 02:30, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

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Settlements: Article structure

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
With 2 endorsements and no objections, Wikipedia:WikiProject Cities/Settlements: Article structure is now officially part of WP:MOSPHIL. -- P 1 9 9  ✉ 14:30, 9 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I propose that Tambayan adopts Wikipedia:WikiProject Cities/Settlements: Article structure for its settlement articles (i.e. cities, municipalities, barangays, etc.). I have already been rearranging articles based on this guideline in the past, without objection it seems. Now it may be helpful to formally adopt this guideline as part of WP:MOSPHIL. I am not suggesting to do a massive retroactive restructuring of articles, just to start using it moving forward as a help in creating uniformity and settling potential disputes. -- P 1 9 9  ✉ 15:51, 21 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I have no problem with using the article structure. It might help improve many of the articles, especially on cities. Too many of the articles on cities read as if they are copied and pasted from the city government's promotional material, either for tourism or investment. --Iloilo Wanderer (talk) 12:28, 27 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Sounds good. I personally do not like that Wikipedia seems to want to put history as one of the first sections on a place article, which is unlike how Britannica and many other encyclopedias do it (usually at the end or near the end). But I think consistency is good so I have no objections to the proposal. —seav (talk) 13:06, 30 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I also don't like the history section first. Note that the Article structure allows the Geography section to be placed ahead of history. That's what I usually do. -- P 1 9 9  ✉ 03:30, 2 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

It all too quick for likes of me ... it was only seven days from start to finish, and these days it gets be longer to start my writing. I have a lot to add, but on the other hand, MOS does say much anyway. I think there are only four headings – History, Geography, Economy and the fourth head which could be called Society or Community. Below History there might be Etymology. Geography can be physical geography such as Land Classification, Climate, as well as Barangays, Demographic. Economy can included Commerce, Transport. Society includes any to do with people, such as Government, Education, Health, Religion, Culture, Tourism, and Twin Cities.

Above all, remember that is to be an encyclopedia, not WP:NOTDIRECTORY, not WP:IINFO.

Unbuttered parsnip (talk) mytime= Mon 06:19, wikitime= 22:19, 15 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your comments Unbuttered Parsnip. (Actually from 1st proposed (Oct. 19) to closure (Nov. 9) was 19 days, and you were active on WP every day during that period.) Why reinvent the wheel? There is no benefit in your proposed structure over the existing one. The Settlements article structure serves our purpose really well, and does not in itself contribute to problems with WP:NOTDIRECTORY and WP:IINFO. -- P 1 9 9  ✉ 14:03, 16 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
(As I said, I had a stroke which makes writing / speak difficult. Reading / hearing is OK.)
As see it, MOSPHIL actually contains not much – for instance no mention of Barangays, and like I said, Transport should be a subsection of Economy, not be a longer way from it. At the moment, the sections are not very logically. Etymology it said should be a subsection of History, but has made it an equally section, and before it.
I didn't mean that the structure is WP:NOTDIRECTORY, what I meant is that the lot of garbage that shouldn't in, for example a list of primary schools in a municipality. Unbuttered parsnip (talk) mytime= Tue 07:08, wikitime= 23:08, 16 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Readers of WP should rightly expect to find the same info in the same place whether reading about a Philippine city or an American city, British city, etc. That is not the case yet in most instances, but Wikipedia:WikiProject Cities/Settlements: Article structure aims to create this uniformity. Creating a new article structure will not be helpful to WP readers. As for the "garbage", you can see from my edit history that I also actively remove indiscriminate info when I find it, but that is not the discussion here. Regards, -- P 1 9 9  ✉ 14:38, 17 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Kingdom of Maynila

Was the page taken over by Islamists and nobody noticed? It reads very fringe to me. What in heaven is Kota Seludong? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.92.128.132 (talk) 06:57, 4 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

As far as I recall, that wasn't me who did that, since I don't have the depth of familiarity with the specific source material that I usually prefer to have before such a major addition (aka the Bruneian documentation). But when that change got introduced, I didn't object, because the literature I have bears it out - these sources also indicate "Selurong" as the old name of the place (like I said, though, they don't go into any further detail like when it got that name, how the name was proclaimed, and whether the name was used by the locals or just the conquering bruneians, etc). "Seludong" is an acceptable orthographic variant. (Also, I can't put it in there because it's unsourced, but that's also basically orthogoraphically re-read as "Kuta Sa Lusong." Which pretty much closes the argument as far as I'm concerned.) - Alternativity (talk) 06:04, 5 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Or maybe it WAS me but I don't remember the edit. Will check at a later date. hehe. - Alternativity (talk) 08:24, 5 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

APEC 2015 Summit notability

Is the ongoing APEC Summit notable enough to warrant its own article? If we have articles for every UAAP season (like UAAP Season 68, with subarticles on several sports) why not for every APEC Summit? Some relevant pages for discussion: WP:EVENT and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pope Francis' visit to the Philippines. —seav (talk) 23:19, 16 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Given the guests of honour during the occasion, e.g. the likes of Barack Obama, dismissing it as non-notable would be short-changing it. Blake Gripling (talk) 23:39, 16 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
We already have APEC Philippines 2015 that was created last April 2015. --Jojit (talk) 01:37, 17 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
IMO, an article on this would be an example of WP:Recentism. That probably applies to the APEC Philippines 2015 as well. That's just me, though. 112.198.98.240 (talk) 12:46, 17 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
There are already existing individual articles for the last 10 APEC Summits. See: Asia-Pacific_Economic_Cooperation#Meeting_locations. TheCoffee (talk) 00:43, 18 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Marcos family

I've been seeing a lot of traffic about that family for years, and it seems the "rehabilitation" is going fullforce, with even the talk pages in Marcos the Elder becoming forums with content no different from their various social media accounts (yeah, I'm looking at you, Get Real Philippines, Definitely Filipino, Showbiz Government, and Anti-Pinoy!). Can we lock them all down (for Notability and COI, for starters), and heavily wheelback the edits because all they want is to deodorize the family and possibly raise the chances of that fake Oxford graduate winning as Veep? Exec8 knows I raised a similar issue on this at the Wikiconference three years ago.--Eaglestorm (talk) 02:04, 18 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Seeing how persistent this is, and given them being a prime target for scorn or praise whichever faction those editors side with, would an indef semi or pending changes lock do the trick for this? Blake Gripling (talk) 12:50, 20 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
A wheelback and heavy cleanup has to happen, but I agree with you. If need be, slapping a multiple issues tag works because those loyalists do all manner of crap so all is favorable to them. NO WAY we're gonna let that happen. --Eaglestorm (talk) 04:17, 21 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

So, the question would be... which sources aren't reliable enough for you. If a known Marcos loyalist who's an expert on something writes something about Marcos about his/her expertise, are we throwing that away from the window? –HTD 16:56, 25 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Chavacano Wikipedia closure

Someone proposed to close the the Chavacano Wikipedia. You may want to comment on the proposal page at meta. --Jojit (talk) 10:44, 17 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I can see the point with closing the wiki, as the problem here is it seems to be too niche for most people (most of my maternal relatives speak the language, but they're not tech-savvy so that rules out any direct contributions from them), yet I see it as a way to promote the language as it appears to be suffering from a decline, hence why the Cavite City LGU is taking steps to encourage the use of it, e.g. bilingual signs in public places and whatnot. Blake Gripling (talk) 14:09, 17 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

On "Huangdoms" and "Kingdoms"

Hi everyone. I call your attention once again to the early historic settlements of the Philippines, to raise a question about terminology, specifically the use of the term "Huangdom" in the case of "Huangdom of Ma-i" and "Huangdom of Pangasinan", and the vulnerability to misunderstanding arising from the use of the term "Kingdom." This has the potential to be a long discussion so I'll just let this be my kickoff.

First: the ancient states of Ma-i and Pangasinan traded with China, and paid tribute to the court of the emperor be able to do so. So now the wikis for these ancient states are being referred to as "Sinified states". The Chinese records referred to their rulers as "Huangs", so these have been labelled "Huangdoms". I submit that both are assumptions. Trade with China does not automatically mean Sinification.

Second: I am not sure whether we have reached a consensus as to whether our ancient states (including the Kingdom of Maynila and Kingdom of Tondo, for example) should be called "kingdoms", lest they be implied to be monarchies in the western sense. If we have, can someone direct me to the conversation where the consensus was achieved please? :D Otherwise, I submit that the term is confusing and that we should probably come up with some more broader term for the Philippine ancient states. - Alternativity (talk) 01:41, 22 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The first thing that comes to my mind is ask an expert regarding this. Personally, I never heard of the term "huangdom" and I think it is not even an English word. If there are no reliable sources regarding the term then it is original research and therefore not suitable for Wikipedia. --Jojit (talk) 07:46, 23 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I recently made a research on these and I agree that the classification of early political states in the archipelago do not qualify as a huangdom or kingdom. The rajah/datu or whatever titleholder he was is not certainly a king, technically speaking. To make the discussion short, I came to the conclusion that these states at least have the barangay system as titles and societal structures almost coincide everywhere it was practiced. Even the Sultan of Sulu had a predecessor named Rajah Baginda. However, I do not suggest that these states be given a barangay title, e.g. Barangay Tondo. I suggest that further research be made.

I disagree with the notion that there were Sinified states. Rather, while they may be recorded by Chinese writers, there is still the issue of the accuracy of the reports. A gift may be interpreted as a tribute. China is not alone in this practice as the Majapahit also claimed to have had tributes from these states, but recent research argues that these claims stop as claims as it is yet to be proved. Reading the Laguna Copperplate, it would seem these doubts have to be considered. Arius1998 (talk) 11:28, 23 December 2015 (UTC) Arius1998 (talk) 11:28, 23 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Aren't we supposed to go by whichever the WP:RS go by? Which terms do they use? Well, if they're all Chinese sources, are we supposed to be stuck with the terms that they use? Which translations are we using? –HTD 16:56, 25 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Huh. Come to think of it, there's the point that needs to be made. No sources use "Huangdom". There are references to the rulers as Huang (which the Chinese sources sometimes translate as "King", and sometimes as "Chief"). Will check further. - Alternativity (talk) 22:41, 25 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Huangdom looks like a bad transliteration. Places where princes rule aren't "Princedoms", same with Rajahs and "Rajahdoms" (rajahnate should be the right term). Huang doesn't appear to be of much help. –HTD 07:30, 26 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

nanogrants for Wikipedia editors, esp in this Tambayan

Nanogrants for Wikipedia editors

our Demented Mother, Mila del Sol, 93, (who really does have dementia, this time) told me on Christmas Day that i was demented for not allocating funds specifically for the purpose of training “the poor” on how to improve Wikipedia.

so as to Honor Our Mother (as if we had a choice), The Mila del Sol & Eddie Romero Fund for Community Development is herewith compelled to offer unlimited nanogrants to qualifying organizations and persons (esp those in Wikipedia:Tambayan Philippines), for the purpose of training “the poor” on how to improve Wikipedia. Details here: http://leoromero.org/nanogrants-for-wikipedia-editors

Thank you, and

Mabuhay! - LoRETta/LeoRomero 02:30, 27 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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