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Please use this page only to:

request administrative action against editors violating a remedy (not merely a principle) or an injunction in an Arbitration Committee decision, or a contentious topic restriction imposed by an administrator,
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For all other problems, including content disagreements or the enforcement of community-imposed sanctions, please use the other fora described in the dispute resolution process. To appeal Arbitration Committee decisions, please use the clarification and amendment noticeboard.

Only autoconfirmed users may file enforcement requests here; requests filed by IPs or accounts less than four days old or with less than 10 edits will be removed. All users are welcome to comment on requests except where doing so would violate an active restriction (such as an extended-confirmed restriction). If you make an enforcement request or comment on a request, your own conduct may be examined as well, and you may be sanctioned for it. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. (Word Count Tool) Statements must be made in separate sections. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as personal attacks, or groundless or vexatious complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions.

To make an enforcement request, click on the link above this box and supply all required information. Incomplete requests may be ignored. Requests reporting diffs older than one week may be declined as stale. To appeal a contentious topic restriction or other enforcement decision, please create a new section and use the template {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}}.

Appeals and administrator modifications of contentious topics restrictions

The Arbitration Committee procedures relating to modifications of contentious topic restrictions state the following:

All contentious topic restrictions (and logged warnings) may be appealed. Only the restricted editor may appeal an editor restriction. Any editor may appeal a page restriction.

The appeal process has three possible stages. An editor appealing a restriction may:

ask the administrator who first made the contentious topic restrictions (the "enforcing administrator") to reconsider their original decision;
request review at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard ("AE") or at the administrators' noticeboard ("AN"); and
submit a request for amendment ("ARCA"). If the editor is blocked, the appeal may be made by email.

Appeals submitted at AE or AN must be submitted using the applicable template.

A rough consensus of administrators at AE or editors at AN may specify a period of up to one year during which no appeals (other than an appeal to ARCA) may be submitted.

Changing or revoking a contentious topic restriction

An administrator may only modify or revoke a contentious topic restriction if a formal appeal is successful or if one of the following exceptions applies:

The administrator who originally imposed the contentious topic restriction (the "enforcing administrator") affirmatively consents to the change,^[a] or is no longer an administrator;^[b] or
The contentious topic restriction was imposed (or last renewed) more than a year ago and:
- the restriction was imposed by a single administrator, or
- the restriction was an indefinite block.

A formal appeal is successful only if one of the following agrees with revoking or changing the contentious topic restriction:

a clear consensus of uninvolved administrators at AE,
a clear consensus of uninvolved editors at AN,
a majority of the Arbitration Committee, acting through a motion at ARCA.

Any administrator who revokes or changes a contentious topic restriction out of process (i.e. without the above conditions being met) may, at the discretion of the Arbitration Committee, be desysopped.

Standard of review
On community review

Uninvolved administrators at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard ("AE") and uninvolved editors at the administrators' noticeboard ("AN") should revoke or modify a contentious topic restriction on appeal if:

the action was inconsistent with the contentious topics procedure or applicable policy (i.e. the action was out of process),
the action was not reasonably necessary to prevent damage or disruption when first imposed, or
the action is no longer reasonably necessary to prevent damage or disruption.

On Arbitration Committee review

Arbitrators hearing an appeal at a request for amendment ("ARCA") will generally overturn a contentious topic restriction only if:

the action was inconsistent with the contentious topics procedure or applicable policy (i.e. the action was out of process),
the action represents an unreasonable exercise of administrative enforcement discretion, or
compelling circumstances warrant the full Committee's action.

^ The administrator may indicate consent at any time before, during, or after imposition of the restriction.
^ This criterion does not apply if the original action was imposed as a result of rough consensus at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard, as there would be no single enforcing administrator.

Appeals and administrator modifications of non-contentious topics sanctions

The Arbitration Committee procedures relating to modifications and appeals state:

Appeals by sanctioned editors

Appeals may be made only by the editor under sanction and only for a currently active sanction. Requests for modification of page restrictions may be made by any editor. The process has three possible stages (see "Important notes" below). The editor may:

ask the enforcing administrator to reconsider their original decision;
request review at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard ("AE") or at the administrators’ noticeboard ("AN"); and
submit a request for amendment at the amendment requests page ("ARCA"). If the editor is blocked, the appeal may be made by email through Special:EmailUser/Arbitration Committee (or, if email access is revoked, to arbcom-enwikimedia.org).

Modifications by administrators

No administrator may modify or remove a sanction placed by another administrator without:

the explicit prior affirmative consent of the enforcing administrator; or
prior affirmative agreement for the modification at (a) AE or (b) AN or (c) ARCA (see "Important notes" below).

Administrators modifying sanctions out of process may at the discretion of the committee be desysopped.

Nothing in this section prevents an administrator from replacing an existing sanction issued by another administrator with a new sanction if fresh misconduct has taken place after the existing sanction was applied.

Administrators are free to modify sanctions placed by former administrators – that is, editors who do not have the administrator permission enabled (due to a temporary or permanent relinquishment or desysop) – without regard to the requirements of this section. If an administrator modifies a sanction placed by a former administrator, the administrator who made the modification becomes the "enforcing administrator". If a former administrator regains the tools, the provisions of this section again apply to their unmodified enforcement actions.

Important notes:

For a request to succeed, either

(i) the clear and substantial consensus of (a) uninvolved administrators at AE or (b) uninvolved editors at AN or

(ii) a passing motion of arbitrators at ARCA

is required. If consensus at AE or AN is unclear, the status quo prevails.

While asking the enforcing administrator and seeking reviews at AN or AE are not mandatory prior to seeking a decision from the committee, once the committee has reviewed a request, further substantive review at any forum is barred. The sole exception is editors under an active sanction who may still request an easing or removal of the sanction on the grounds that said sanction is no longer needed, but such requests may only be made once every six months, or whatever longer period the committee may specify.
These provisions apply only to contentious topic restrictions placed by administrators and to blocks placed by administrators to enforce arbitration case decisions. They do not apply to sanctions directly authorized by the committee, and enacted either by arbitrators or by arbitration clerks, or to special functionary blocks of whatever nature.
All actions designated as arbitration enforcement actions, including those alleged to be out of process or against existing policy, must first be appealed following arbitration enforcement procedures to establish if such enforcement is inappropriate before the action may be reversed or formally discussed at another venue.

Information for administrators processing requests

Thank you for participating in this area. AE works best if there are a variety of admins bringing their expertise to each case. There is no expectation to comment on every case, and the Arbitration Committee (ArbCom) thanks all admins for whatever time they can give.

A couple of reminders:

Before commenting, please familiarise yourself with the referenced ArbCom case. Please also read all the evidence (including diffs) presented in the AE request.
When a request widens to include editors beyond the initial request, these editors must be notified and the notifications recorded in the same way as for the initial editor against whom sanctions were requested. Where some part of the outcome is clear, a partial close may be implemented and noted as "Result concerning X".
Enforcement measures in arbitration cases should be construed liberally to protect Wikipedia and keep it running efficiently. Some of the behaviour described in an enforcement request might not be restricted by ArbCom. However, it may violate other Wikipedia policies and guidelines; you may use administrative discretion to resolve it.
More than one side in a dispute may have ArbCom conduct rulings applicable to them. Please ensure these are investigated.

Closing a thread:

Once an issue is resolved, enclose it between {{hat}} and {{hab}} tags. A bot should archive it in 7 days.
Please consider referring the case to ARCA if the outcome is a recommendation to do so or the issue regards administrator conduct.
You can use the templates {{uw-aeblock}} (for blocks) or {{AE sanction}} (for other contentious topic restrictions) to give notice of sanctions on user talk pages.
Please log sanctions in the Arbitration enforcement log.

Thanks again for helping. If you have any questions, please post on the talk page.

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Kafkasmurat

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Kafkasmurat

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: EtienneDolet (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 22:07, 21 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested: Kafkasmurat (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Wikipedia:AA2#Standard_discretionary_sanctions

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

Kafkasmurat is a denier of the Armenian Genocide and displays a disruptive editing pattern that is overtly nationalist. Although the user is entitled to his opinions about 1915, he has nevertheless spilled his WP:POV all over Wikipedia articles.

The user has a long history of disruption dating back to 2007. In his first three edits as a Wikipedian, the user blanked the entire Armenian Genocide article with an edit-summary that calls it an "unnecessary article" and has edit-warred over it bypassing the WP:3RR limit (DIFFS: [1][2][3]). Surprisingly, the user was only given a 3RR warning.

After taking a break, the user has returned in December of 2013. He continued his disruption even after he receives a formal warning:

Removes sourced information on the Armenian Genocide

17 February 2014 Edit summary: "Controversial subjects with bad intentions"
17 February 2014 Removes external link of Armenian Genocide on the Genocide article page with an edit-summary "Irrelevant Link..."

Incivil and racist remarks:

21 February 2014 "All of this users' edits are anti- Turkish editions."
17 February 2014 "Deletion is an ill will. You should stop harming Turkish related articles."
18 February 2014 "You always contribute anti-Turkish additions."
26 December 2013 "Article consists of hate speech by Armenians."
23 December 2013 "Armenians stop manipulating Wikipedia"
23 December 2013 "Any matter offenses to Turks ( even terrorism) gets support by the user"

Copying and pasting information about genocide denial in numerous articles to make a WP:POINT:

Misuse of sources to make a WP:POINT

21 February 2013 Complete misuse of source. Adds that Soghomon Tehlirian was 'a terrorist in public opinion' even though the source makes no such conclusion. In the talk page of the corresponding article, Kafkasmurat repeatedly says, "When did terrorists become assasins?" and "How can you make a hero from a psychopath?" (DIFF: [4]). Clearly, this recent edit was guided by his personal convictions. The source itself is highly questionable since it appears to be an essay of an undergraduate student given to his professor as a class assignment. To top it all off, there is no edit-summary.

P.S. The FORUM-like edits on the talkpage were reverted by Drmies with an edit-summary by him stating "language not really appropriate for talk pages of articles". If this language is inappropriate for talk pages, I could safely assume it is inappropriate for articles as well.

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

Warned on 23 December 2013 by Drmies (talk · contribs)

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

The disruption the user has caused the past month is considerable. Although he has already been blocked for his conduct, he continues to disrupt Wikipedia extensively. Most of his edits are driven by his own personal opinions and often times fall contrary to the general consensus Wikipedia has instilled. I propose that Kafkasmurat be banned from all topics related to Armenia and Turkey.

@Kafkasmurat: I advise you to remain WP:CIVIL in your conduct towards me and to remember WP:NOTTHEM. My edits are not "black propaganda edits" and neither are they "anti-Turkish". I have already advised you awhile ago to stop saying that I'm anti-Turkish. You continued immediately after and now you're continuing to do it again.

@EtienneDolet: I remain nice to every thing. It's up to your perception. I've been contributing for 9 nears(especially tr.wiki). Political attitudes like yours, kept me away from En.wiki. I don't harm any information. I don't want to ban or forbid anything. We need to tell possibilities for reliability.--Kafkasmurat (talk) 13:37, 22 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@ErikHaugen: All the diffs I provided are actionable since they were made after the warning on December 23. There are, however, an exception of two diffs (the ones of 23 December) which were made minutes before the warning. I provided them nevertheless to show that the user disregarded the warning and continued his uncivil remarks towards his fellow editors. I am also very well aware that the 2007 diffs in the introduction of the report are non-actionable. I provided those diffs to show the consistency in his disruptive editing pattern from past to present. Étienne Dolet (talk) 03:43, 22 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Kafkasmurat: I have already advised you not to use phrases like "Political attitudes like yours" towards your fellow Wikipedia editors. So please stop lashing out on me. Remember WP:NOTTHEM and WP:CIVIL. As for harming of information, we will have to let the admins decide that. Étienne Dolet (talk) 18:05, 22 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@EtienneDolet: Lashing out? :D You've rummaged everything about me, complained, reverted and i am the lashing one. Congratulations on your discoveries. --Kafkasmurat (talk) 18:23, 22 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I hope the results here will effectively reduce the personal attacks towards me. I will, as always, display a WP:GOODFAITH towards Kafkasmurat. I am optimistic that he will positively contribute to the topic area and help build a bigger and better encyclopedia on that end. Thank you admins for your time and effort in handling this. Étienne Dolet (talk) 22:43, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

[5]

Discussion concerning Kafkasmurat

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Kafkasmurat

Hey, i lost hope on Wikipedia with a 24 hour block: because of saying something at talk page. After that i tried to make minor adjustments while reading. Everything i did have trusted references. The user who complained about me, Étienne Dolet, has hundreds of black propaganda edits. All of this users' edits are anti- Turkish editions. That's meaningful. I should remind that blocking or humiliating users don't prevent anything. Only break down the hope. Thanks for objective reviews.--Kafkasmurat (talk) 22:35, 21 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Kafkasmurat

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

"Sanction or remedy to be enforced" just links to the arbcom case, I'm assuming Wikipedia:AA2#Standard_discretionary_sanctions is meant. I'm not seeing much of anything recent in these diffs; i.e., since the warning in December. Maybe the "You always contribute anti-Turkish additions" line, but I'm not sure there's anything we can act on here in this forum. ErikHaugen (talk | contribs) 22:34, 21 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

There's also the "Article consists of hate speech by Armenians" comment on December 26. That's a bit stale, but together with the response to this request, which alleges "black propaganda" on the part of the complainant without evidence, I get the impression of a WP:BATTLEGROUND attitude. Considering also that the response is so poorly written as to be almost incomprehensible, I get the feeling that Wikipedia won't lose many good contributions if we enact a topic ban. (Disclaimer: I have made content edits about the topic of the Swiss court cases concerning Armenian genocide denial in the German language Wikipedia. I don't think that makes me involved here, as I've never interacted with either party, but I'm mentioning it just as a matter of transparency.) Sandstein 18:45, 23 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

It looks like there's bad blood between the two parties, but Kafkasmurat does seem to be displaying a battleground mentality. I'd have no qualms about a topic ban. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 18:24, 27 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see much here. A topic ban seems disproportionate to me. I realize these DS cases seem that way sometimes, but I'm just not seeing much harm here. ErikHaugen (talk | contribs) 19:10, 27 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You don't think accusing somebody you're in a dispute with of "black propaganda edits" and "anti-Turkish editions", in an area that's under discretionary sanctions, is problematic? To me, it's suggestive of a battleground mentality, even if none of the respondent's individual edits are inherently problematic. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 19:25, 27 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I agree it's problematic. It was clumsy and unnecessarily combative (and altogether unnecessary, really: it doesn't matter that Etienne writes a lot about, e.g., the Armenian Genocide) but keep in mind that this is in response to being accused here—I think that while yes, it is problematic, some defensiveness is at least understandable. I'm not saying there's nothing, but an indefinite topic ban for that seems disproportionate. ErikHaugen (talk | contribs) 23:34, 27 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

What about a 1RR in the topic area, as well as no-warning blocks if Kafkasmurat makes personal attacks? I'd like to note that Kafkasmurat was blocked Drmies for personal attacks (and it is NOT logged on AA2 page), and thus I agree that I am unsure whether an indefinite ban is the solution here. IBAN obviously would be equivalent to TBAN in this case and thus not recommended either. - Penwhale | ^{dance in the air and follow his steps} 21:16, 2 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- That sounds reasonable to me. There is plainly evidence of disruption especially though edit warring however I agree with the other admins who have commented that a TBAN seems a bit extreme but believe that 1RR is appropriate and has a greater likelihood of preventing issues. If it doesn't I'd warn Kafkasmurat that a topic ban is looming. In addition to that the personal attacks linked by users above are problematic, unacceptable and especially disruptive in this topic area, given that I think a sanction to prevent, or deal with quickly, the personal attacks is necessary and will be helpful. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 10:29, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  - No objections. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 16:43, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Gilabrand

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Gilabrand

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: IRISZOOM (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 20:27, 27 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested: Gilabrand (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: WP:ARBPIA#Discretionary sanctions

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

06:59, 10 December 2013 He removes (rm) a reference to one respected human rights organization (B'Tselem).
15:25, 26 December 2013 Rm info about Israel's assasination attempt on Khaled Mashal, which threatened the treaty, but keeps info from Arutz Sheva and what they wrote got misrepresented and other one used a fact.
17:31, 23 January 2014 It is "anachronistic" to write that Mohammed Assaf was born or his parents are from "Gaza, Palestine" but does not apply to the part about "Beersheba, Israel". He also rm that Beit Daras was depopulated, now only captured.
09:35, 8 January 2014 This was brought up in other AE case. Now again, both in the lead and below, rm that there was a massacre in Saliha. He says the sources are not RS. Falses as sources were Danny Rubinstein in Haaretz and Benny Morris.
17:36, 23 January 2014 Rm info about damage from Israeli operations, change the reason of the halt (and exaggerates it) from being the blockade to Hamas' takeover, and diminish what the source say about homes needed.
07:16, 10 February 2014 Rm info about a series of paintings on depopulated villages, Yibna being one of them. Without basis, he rm info about military assault and depopulation. Cherrypicks when only mentioning that they fled, but not why, before assault.
17:18, 3 February 2014 Rm Palestine. Gets reverted, then adds a fact tag as a last attempt to get Palestine removed. Explanations were given why it is there.
07:57, 10 February 2014 Not only about turning in the weapons but also accepting protection by Haganah. Rm the part about the soldier firing and Zarnuqa villagers getting expelled. Adds much about weapons and that they returned them but now what they had to do and endure before they turned over their weapons. Rm who ransacked and rm info about demolition.
20:34, 10 February 2014 Rm that the girl also (apparently) got killed.
21:04, 10 February 2014 Rm that it was depopulated. When I reinserted it, he added it was "later depopulated". True but why not write that first? His similar actions otherwhere makes me suspicious here.
19:28, 12 February 2014 Rm that it was depopulated, then only half-reverts when told he has confused them. That still gave the view that it was a current village.
10:16, 20 January 2014 Israeli expulsions etc. gets dimished.
10:01, 21 January 2014 Does not even seem to have the source he claims, because later he realized where it came from and then starts to diminsh the source. Anyway, he misrepresents what Israeli forces did. He got reverted, after this he starts with misrepresenting and diminishing where the claims come frome (only a comic book, where it originally came from is left out). Keeped pushing this view a month after too.
17:51, 28 January 2014 Unaccepted addition of "terrorist".
16:45, 24 February 2014 Rm sourced info that it is known for protests against Israeli forces and in the same time, he adds a image of Palestinian getting Israeli medical care. Changes to IDF's wording, that is "crossing" from "checkpoint". Rm that Israelis made the raid and who died gets unclear. He is doing the same thing, including one on the same checkpoint, on Commons, where we take descriptions from.
07:13, 26 February 2014 Rm from lead that Israelis captured it. Current localities gets changed to something according to Walid Khalidi. This does not need to be attributed but by doing it, statement gets diminished.
22:58, 26 February 2014 Rm refugees got interviewed, now it is only about about a villager and rm that the refugee said that Yishuv (Israeli) forces besieged the village and that it caused a lack of food.

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

Blocked a dozen times. See also this, this and this.

See also the latest case here at AE against Gilabrand and the case at AN. In both cases, Gilabrand was informed by Georgewilliamherbert on the heightened scrutiny.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

I think it is clear that Gilabrand is very biased. During the last month, it has been worse than usual and much of his edits have been on depopulated Palestinian villages. Since then, I have taken a look on his edits because, as evidenced above, he keeps making unjustified edits on articles. He also made massremovals on List of villages depopulated during the Arab–Israeli conflict, including one after an editor wrote in talk page why it is not acceptable and an another editor reverting him. In the talk page about Khirbat al-Tannur, he said for some days ago that "it is time to look closer" on "'Village' lists drawn up by Palestinian advocacy sites have been circulating for years now, and copied by everyone and his grandmother without question". Maybe that explains his edits but "looking closer" does not mean making such biased changes. But of course, it is more than his changes on depopulated Palestinian villages. It is about the whole topic area. It can not continue like this.

One thing I am happy for is that he is editing about a well covered topic. Just imagine if he was doing this to a much lesser known topic.

It is not about content dispute but about conduct violations. I will now start shortening it. --IRISZOOM (talk) 20:44, 27 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The length should be acceptable now. --IRISZOOM (talk) 21:46, 27 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I think it is clear how Gilabrand's conduct is unacceptable. He constantly removes or misrepresents claims so that it favor Israel ahead of Palestinian and other viewspoints. Like as showed above, he removes that villages were depopulated, makes up why they were depopulated or cherrypicks, diminish Israeli military actions such as in Abu Ghosh, Yibna and Khan Yunis, changes a sentence from being that the Israeli blockade (imposed after Hamas's takover) to Hamas' takeover being the reason why reconstruction of homes on destroyed by Israel (that also got removed) was halted, removes that a girl was killed, removes that Israeli forces blew up homes in a village, adds "terrorist" label, removes that there was a massacre, who attacks etc. The POV pushing is big and clear. I see it is as very unfortunante if he can continue like this. --IRISZOOM (talk) 22:17, 27 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

It is an issue with NPOV, which I think Gilabrand fails to adhere to so many times in this topic area. --IRISZOOM (talk) 22:46, 27 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

If the constant removals of relevant and sourced information and other violations such as cherrypicking showed here is not seen as punishable, I do not know what is then. But if this is allowed, then we all have to accept it and start play the same game. --IRISZOOM (talk) 23:58, 27 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I am surprised by your statement, Georgewilliamherbert, and the others. I can not understand how you think it is content disputes, cleanup edits etc. I am surprised because I think the pattern is clear. Maybe some is unclear now that I had to cut down my request. For example, the diff I gave on Yibna is now only one though I wanted to show different info. I gave that info but it is not clear it is different edits. Like this one and this. Explanations are given above. This is the same problem type of problem everywhere so I ask you to look at the edits again and think if the constant removals, misrepresentation and cherrypicking is not unacceptable. Otherwise, I am afraid it is like Sepsis II said. --IRISZOOM (talk) 04:38, 1 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Greyshark09, first of all, the evidence here is strong. Three editors and one admin agree with me. Secondly, this is my first AE case against Gilabrand. Do not make up things. I expect you to retract your claim about "wiki hounding" and to the next time, get the facts straight before making such serious allegations.

I am not a POV pusher, and certainly not a "extreme" one, and even if your examples were right, saying that this is something close to removing, misrepresenting and cherrypicking info, as shown above, is not accurate. But your examples is silly and mostly because it is about you making unilateral changes and then getting reverted and then you complain that others do not accept it. And while Palestine Remembered may not be a RS, it is used many times here, because most of it is based on people like Sami Hadawi and Walid Khalidi. Even Gilabrand has used it. Secondly, as told many, many times, to put a link in External links does not require it to be a RS. It is there on nearly every article (and was there in this article too before Gilabrand removed it twice and I told both in the the talk page and edit summary why it can be there) about depopulated Palestinian villages and many others. It is nearly 700 articles.

Zero0000 also brought up the issue about Palestine getting replaced. I have written several replies there and I also said that it is you, Greyshark09, who are mostly doing it but you never joined the discussion. The fact is that the region is called Palestine. This is how it is referred to by the the vast majority of of scholars. No one is referring to the State of Palestine here. The article itself is called 1834 Arab revolt in Palestine. The Arabs there are called Palestinian Arabs, which I reinserted and not "Palestinians" so again, do not make up things. Until 2010, this is what it was also inserted in the article. It is the same thing with 1915 Palestine locust infestation. You on the other hand unilaterally changed that and other articles. You have gotten reverted by atleast another user (Zero0000) on another article. When you have support to change it, do it. Now you have not and even the titles are clear on this. They are not named like that of an accident. But you are not caring about that and are imposing what you think is right and then complaining that others are not accepting your changes.

The same thing with the other example. Here it is you again changing something. You did it here too. You changed from "West Bank" to "[Jordanian occupation of the West Bank|West Bank]". This is wrong for two reasons. One is that when clicking on something visible like that (read about piping), a reader expects to go to the page about that. Secondly, nearly all articles state West Bank respective Gaza Strip. Both of them were created in 1948 so when you say that we could add "Jesus too", you are making a straw man. You would maybe have a case if I had changed to Palestinian territories (created in 1967, though it refers to the West Bank and Gaza Strip) or State of Palestine (created in 1988). Maybe you could add "under Jordanian/Egyptian occupation" before/after this but this and "West Bank/Gaza Strip, under Israeli-occupation" is very rarely done when stating birth place etc., which is on the contrary to what you claim. But this was not what you did, as you are trying to portrait it by saying that it was changed from "born in Jordanian-occupied West Bank" to "born in the West Bank" when it was the same thing but different link. Again, if you are trying to build up a case, be honest and do not make up things. It is silly to see you complaining because you are getting reverted for changes you do not have any support for. --IRISZOOM (talk) 01:09, 2 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Ubie the Guru, an allegation and no support? It was sourced in the infobox, which Gilabrand and edited so he must have seen it. Furthermore, the removal of that it was depopulated was one of several wrong things he did on Zarnuqa. I advice you to read again. --IRISZOOM (talk) 16:22, 2 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I will shortly answer your comments, Ubie, but keep in mind that these diffs are just a part of mine and HJ Mitchell's analys. The incident with Mashal is known and the info from AJ doesn't come from the film maker but a retired Jordanian general who was the manager of the king's office then. And again, you can't remove this but keep info against the Israeli side given by the settler agency Arutz Sheva (Israel National News). Other change here mentioned above.

Here is the link to what you ask for.

It is clear that it refers to Israeli forces making an offensive against the Egpytian forces who were the defending part. There is nothing POV in saying that but if you think so, discuss or reword it instead of removing it and it doesn't matter if it is only the lead. Other change here mentioned above. You have confused the part about the edits on Kalandia and Raml Zayta. With regards to Khan Yunis massacre, that many were killed does not only come from Benny Morris but also residents and UN. Morris calls it a massacre. Other change here mentioned above, like this.

I think the pattern is very clear and this is not something new as evidenced by his block log. Just to give you an example of this problem, I will tell you about what happened yesterday. I was correcting ISBN errors to a book from Morris and edited 20-25 articles. When I was doing that, I found two instances where Gilabrand had edited the page and made these typical changes. One was in 2011, where he changed to "according to Walid Khalidi" and he removed "Palestinian". The other one was from last year, where he removed "depopulated". --IRISZOOM (talk) 19:12, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Greyshark09, it is interesting that you ignored to take back your unfolded claim about "wiki hounding" and are now again discussing my conduct, while still ignoring to comment on Gilabrand, though HJ Mitchell was clear that you should file a separate claim for this. You speak about my conduct as very clearly wrong so why are you not going ahead? Is it because you maybe think it is safer to bring it up here instead of filing a separate complaint and risk backlash, as you want to happen here against me despite my evidence being strong? No matter what, you have been told about how to go forward.

I am not "clearly more pushy" and this is not an "editor disagreement". This is about an editor who is making changes such as from:

According to UNRWA several of the camp's residents have lost their homes as a result of operations by the Israeli military. UNRWA began reconstruction efforts in the early 2000s, but work has largely been halted due to the blockade imposed by Israel on the Gaza Strip following the Hamas take-over of the territory...

to:

UNRWA initiated construction projects in the camp in the early 2000s, but work was halted by the Hamas take-over of the territory...

Protesting against that is not only right but also important. These type of changes don't develop Wikipedia but makes it less neutral and accurate. Constantly making such changes is why a sanction is correct. --IRISZOOM (talk) 06:54, 4 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion concerning Gilabrand

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Gilabrand

Statement by Nomoskedasticity

I think Sandstein's instructions are unfortunate. The point here is the pattern, and without a significant range of instances and a thorough explanation it will be harder to see the pattern. If the OP cuts it down as instructed, it might well look like just a content dispute. The post at present does a good job of showing excessively tendentious editing, something that AE ought to deal with particularly in regard to an editor like Gilabrand who has a long history of it. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 20:50, 27 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The tendentiousness and POV-pushing is there for those who want to see it. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 22:47, 27 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Georgewilliamherbert:: What do you think of IRISZOOM's example just above (diff here)? Note the edit-summary ("ce") -- thoroughly deceptive. This sort of thing is absolutely typical of this editor's engagement in the I/P topic area. I appreciate your concern about not wanting to tilt the balance towards people editing in that area from a different POV -- but surely this means that anyone who systematically does this sort of thing from a different POV needs to be dealt with similarly, rather than simply allowing it to carry on as at present. (And of course I'm perfectly happy to have my own editing scrutinised in those terms.) Nomoskedasticity (talk) 09:22, 4 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Sepsis

It's obvious that Gilabrand consistently abuses wikipedia to further her POV through misrepresenting and removing reliable sources, removing facts that look poor on Israel, labeling, denialism, placing sites in incorrect countries, etc, but it's also just as obvious that AE has given up on stopping such editors. Sepsis II (talk) 23:47, 27 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Alf.laylah.wa.laylah

I hope the administrators will take the time to look into Gilabrand's problematic POV pushing. It's there in practically every edit related to Palestine. For another example, this one from earlier today, see this article move of List of Palestinian people assassinated by the Mossad to List of Palestinians allegedly assassinated by the Mossad with the edit summary "no proof". Of course there's proof. Most items on the list are sourced. The sources say the people were assassinated by the Mossad. After the move they're not "people" any more (that's not such a big issue) and they're "allegedly" assassinated. This is representative. I could add to the extensive list provided in the original request for enforcement with many more such examples. The policy they violate is WP:NPOV and the method by which they violate it is well-explained in the essay Wikipedia:Civil POV pushing. If the POV pushing isn't clear from what's here, though, I don't guess more will make it more clear.— alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 00:20, 28 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Greyshark09

Frankly it looks to me IRISZOOM is wiki hounding Gilabrand once again, as this is her second or third complaint without any strong evidence, while she herself is an extreme POV editor, which doesn't care much over wikipedia conventions. For example IRISZOOM is using PalestineRemembered as a source, while it was long ago considered as non-reliable; she is making massive edits to insert Palestine and Palestinians retroactively into history without specific reasons and without sufficient sources, like renaming the pro-Ottoman Arab clans of Nablus, Al-Quds and Halil to "Palestinians" who revolted in "Palestine" in 1834 (which obviously was an Arab Peasant rebellion is Southern Ottoman Syria and little to do with modern Palestinian nationalism), renaming the Ottoman administrative Syrian provinces into "Palestine" here once again. If i see this wiki-hounding by IRISZOOM going on further i will take a deeper look on this possible abuse myself.GreyShark (dibra) 23:01, 1 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Here is another one by IRISZOOM - Rami Hamdullah turns from "born in Jordanian-occupied West Bank" to just "born in the West Bank", while we clearly tend to indicate nationality at-birth. I guess with same logic IRIS might tag Jesus as born in the "West Bank" as well. This is an ideological question of how much Palestine we should see in history and to what extent - IRISZOOM is clearly no the one to ask this question for a neutral answer.GreyShark (dibra) 23:12, 1 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@HJ Mitchell: the sanctions of ARBPIA were created in order to reduce edit-warring and create a more neutral wikipedia as a result. ARBPIA hence should balance views to create an NPOV version; banning a user for his/her views without strong reasons (edit-warring, extensive removal of material) is actually against the concept of ARBPIA. The one who is clearly more pushy in the described editor disagreement is actually IRISZOOM, who is very frequently reverting other editors on ARBPIA articles to the preferred POV version, which can be easily interpreted as propaganda - per ARBPIA the editor who issues topic-area complaint should also be sanctioned in case of violation. Hence, according to WP:ARBPIA rule, IRISZOOM might as well be sanctioned for massive reverts and tendency to edit-war.GreyShark (dibra) 05:35, 4 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by ZScarpia

@Greyshark: Even in 1834, Palestine was the common name in English for what you are insisting should be called Ottoman Southern Syria. As for the edit of the Rami Handallah article, you should look at it more carefully: Iriszoom did not change it as you describe. You should probably also read up on the statuses of the areas controlled by Israel and Jordan between 1948 and 1967. Neither area was considered to be 'occupied'. ← ZScarpia 05:05, 2 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by IZAK

Agree that this is about a content dispute that nevertheless and obviously drives the anti-Israel and pro-PLO-POV-pushers crazy -- rather than edit they come to this forum. It seems that since User Gilabrand (talk · contribs) is just working a lot harder than her critics they take the easy way out and try to belittle her hard work and are trying to "cut her off at the knees" with WP:LAWYERING here. So I'll just repeat what I stated earlier but it is just as true: In a nutshell User Gilabrand (talk · contribs) is being subjected to not so subtle WP:WIKIHOUNDING and WP:CYBERBULLYING by editors who express a POV that can be summed up as waving a little flag called "WP:IDONTLIKEIT". The accusations against her are also a violation of WP:NOTCENSORED as well as an abuse of WP:LAWYERING.

There are so far few eloquent English speaking Israelis and Jewish editors to do the tough job that Gilabrand does -- to give an alternate explanation and defense to too much blatant pro-PLO, Pro-Arab anti-Israel pushing on WP that is mind-numbing and boring if not outright stupid in its results.

Bottom line: This entire debate is too hilarious for words because of course every editor has a personal POV but as responsible editors we adhere to WP:NPOV as best we can. There is no denying that User Gilabrand (talk · contribs) works to present an Israeli perspective but it is within acceptable bounds. It is absurd to accept that "all" editors who edit I-P topics should sound and act as if they are working for Al Jazeera (hey guess what guys, this may come as a shock to you, but: Wikipedia is NOT Al Jazeera !) or as hired PR flacks for the PLO or Hamas or Hizubbullah or the Ayatolas of Iran etc.

Editors such as Gilabrand are obviously loyal Israelis expressing the standard Israeli view on these subjects cited by the complaint and they will always exist. Duh!!! Just as they cannot be dismissed or ignored or exterminated in the real world by Israel's enemies, they cannot be dismissed or ignored by punishing good editors on WP who come on board who should be debated but not crushed as this complaint is trying to do.

WP cannot be "holier than thou" than the real world by trying to crush any editor who comes along wanting to insert a healthy debate and alternate views that exist out there in the world, that no amount of WP:WIKIHOUNDING and WP:CENSOR will achieve.

It only cheapens WP to crush and humiliate Gilabrand rather than discussing points rationally. And it is a cop-out to take this short-cut rather than debate her point by point, that comes across as a "cyber thought control policeman" acting to enforce "UN resolutions" when WP is neither part of the UN nor does it belong to any majority or minority be they Arabs or Jews. WP has to be fair to all because it is an online ENCYCLOPEDIA and it is not a place to wage WP:WAR. Yes, editing WP takes skill and it is a tough job, but to take out the hatched and try to proverbially "kill off" your opponent rather than engaging in proper intellectual debate and work on the technical and policy aspects of WP editing is disgusting to watch, and soon there will only be anti-Israel editors running what is already a pretty well-known debacle and degradation as more and more (like a doomed sinking Titanic of verbal huckstering) WP takes on the default role as a front for the delegitimization of the Israeli POV (yes it's a POV, just as the PLO has POV and Hamas has a POV).

Okay, so let's imagine, tomorrow Gilabrand is banned or blocked forever. Does that make WP a better place? Will all the critics be happy talking to themselves now that political correctness and groupthink are enforced? It would be yet another Pyrrhic victory that only silly small-minded people could enjoy. Gilabrand is not an "ogre" -- she is a friend of WP as hard to believe that some here may find that to be, and she can be engaged on equal terms. She is smart and knows her facts, and just because of WP:IDONTLIKEIT it is no reason that she should be taken down. WP needs Gilabrand and more editors like her. IZAK (talk) 15:54, 2 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Ubie the Guru

Take #8 where Gilbrand is reprimanded for removing the allegation that Zarnuqa was a depopulated village. If you go to the article you see that there is no supporting source for that, so in fairness he was correct. The anti-Israel slant in that article is clear. It seems that in Wikipedia editors who are negative to Israel are considered unbiased and those who are positive are considered biased. Considering the massive amounts of disinformation that is out there that is negative toward Israel, it would be a good thing if the information in Wikipedia were seriously scrutinized to see if it is actually true, so that slanders against this small and beleaguered country were not encouraged and spread by Wikipedia. The amount of information/propaganda that is out there that is anti-Israel is analogous to the Nazi propaganda against the Jews in the thirties and forties, and as in the thirties and forties, is taught at Universities. During the Nazi years, anyone who stood up for the Jews against the Nazis was considered a "Jew-lover" and was in threat of joining the Jews in the camps. Wikipedia is getting a reputation of being a propagator of this anti-Israel mindset. Today every bigot in the world has access to media to spread their disinformation and propaganda around. I hope the administrators consider this position before they topic ban yet another hardworking editor whose sin is to see the I-P conflict from an unpopular (but possibly accurate) perspective. Ubie the guru (talk) 16:17, 2 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I decided to take the statement by Arbitrator HJMitchell and see if my thesis held up, by investigating his specific differences that he used to accuse Gilabrand of biased editing. His first difference refers to "removal of material unflattering to Israel."

"this edit removed material regarding an assassination attempt by Israel (cited to Al Jazeera)" The first the Al Jazeera source is describing a movie, presumably a documentary, made by an Arab film-maker. True or not, has the film itself been vetted as fact? Has this film whose story is being told in Al Jazeera an appropriate historical source for an article on alleged treaty violations in the Israel-Jordan peace treaty? Arguably not.
I was unable to find the removal of sources with respect to a sentence which mentions 'an Israeli settlement in an occupied territory."
"this removed all mention of controversial actions by Israeli forces in the 1948 war." This is the sentence that was removed: "It was captured by Israeli forces in the offensive Operation Yoav against the defending Egyptian Army during the 1948 Arab-Israeli War" This could be considered a controversial edit. Was Operation Yoav an offensive action against the defending(?) Egyptian army? The police fort which had been under the British was now "occupied" by the Egyptians according to a later section. The Negev had been part of the UN's partition plan area assigned to a Jewish state. If my history serves me right, Egypt invaded Israel in 1948 and so would be the offending army, Israel the defending army, no? The original edit tries to imply the opposite, though it is not based on any source. Also, Gilabrand's edit does not remove all mention of controversial actions by Israeli forces in the 1948 war, only in this one edit in the lead of the article.

HJMitchell says:

"more removal of material unflattering to Israel: mention of alleged depopulation by Israel is removed; as is the statement that the village is the location of ant-Israel protests. "Israel" is removed from a statement about a controversial action by that country." Yet when I read the original sentence, this, "Raml Zayta was depopulated during the 1947–1948 Civil War in Mandatory Palestine. According to Benny Morris, the causes and date of the depopulation are unknown," is not significantly different from this (Gilabrand's sentence): "Benny Morris writes that the causes of the village's depopulation and when it occurred are unknown.<ref name=Morrispxviii>Morris, 2004, [http://books.google.ca/books?id=uM_kFX6edX8C&pg=PR18&dq=raml+zeita&lr=#v=onepage&q=raml%20zeita&f=false p. xviii].</ref> "
"a "massacre" by Israeli forces becomes an "alleged massacre"; " Israeli soldiers shot dead hundreds of Palestinian refugees and local inhabitants in one of two massacres" becomes "...were shot in the search for people in possession of arms". This statement by HJMitchell does seem to presuppose or accept Morris' assertion of the fact of two massacres when according Haaretz, "Israeli historians dispute these figures. 'It's a big exaggeration,' said Meir Pail, a leading Israeli military historian and leftist politician. 'There was never a killing of such a degree. Nobody was murdered. I was there. I don't know of any massacre.'" [6]

While I was unable to find several references these I did find are arguably an attempt to be accurate and fair to Israel, instead of only to the Palestinian Arab side in this conflict. As you continually block and ban so-called pro-Israeli editors you will understandably eventually get a field totally dominated by anti-Israel propaganda, thereby literally becoming a part of the problem and adding to the conflict by putting your weight only on one side of the see-saw. Ubie the guru (talk) 05:54, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

HJMitchell says "I note that you dispute my interpretation of individual edits, but the point I'm making is that the pattern in Gila's edits is problematic. I'll happily listen to arguments that I'm wrong, but just re-hashing individual diffs isn't going to do it."

A 'pattern' is made up of individual edits. You claim that Gilabrand's 'pattern' is pro-Israel and that this is problematic and seem to be urging a topic ban. To make that determination you must look at individual edits and ask yourself if indeed these edits (eg the ones you used to condemn) are in fact pro-Israeli and if so, are they in fact untrue or worded in some way as to imply some untruth? Could you be seeing this out of your own prejudice, as we all tend to do? Is a pro-Israel bias defacto wrong; and if so is an anti-Israel or pro-Palestinian bias defacto wrong? If so, then the edits of opposing editors should be equally scrutinized for such bias, especially at the time they are attempting to topic ban an editor. To the pro-Israeli editors on Wikipedia it is clear that the anti-Israel editors view AE as a formula to rid Wikipedia of the virus (as they see it) of pro-Israel-bias editing. There is a highly entrenched group of anti-Israel editors on Wikipedia. They are very vocal, bring numerous AE's against both new and older "opponents," and vote administrators in or out based significantly on their expressed viewpoints in this conflict. This is not empty rhetoric on my part. I can provide evidence if required. I hope you will consider this because it is only a matter of simple fairness to both sides. If you ban one perspective or point of view, then Wikipedia will become (as many already say it is) a vehicle for propaganda for the other side only. It is in the tension of both points of view that the facts will come out and the truth will be discernible. Ubie the guru (talk) 20:36, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Yambaram

Looking at all the selectively picked diffs provided by IRISZOOM, I only found 4 of them to be somewhat problematic. Considering the fact that Gilabrand has made thousands of edits in this very heated topic area, where every little change may look like a huge POV-attempt, in my judgement I actually find his/her edits rather constructive, even in most of the examples provided by IRISZOOM here, who is a user I'll not elaborate on now. So while he/she is evidently supportive of the so called Israeli narrative, I think it's absurd to expect perfection from such editor, and Sepsis definitely doesn't have a case for a topic-ban on Gilabrand.

Regarding a few comments raised above: Sepsis, I think you should have been referring to yourself as well when you said "AE has given up on stopping such editors", because as previous cases have shown, your edits are extremely POV-pushing with regards to the I / P area. Alf.laylah.wa.laylah, your example is ironically bad. An article cannot be named "List of Palestinians assassinated by the Mossad" if it hasn't been absolutely proven that these people have been assassinated by the Mossad. You said "Most items on the list are sourced". Really? So if most 'items' are sourced (by some independent organizations/websites), that entitles all Palestinians listed there to be considered as people assassinated by the Mossad? Well, not only was Gilabrand's edit okay, it was necessary. Any objective editor would agree that the article should indeed be renamed. See this article for example. And then read Wikipedia's guidelines again, please.

Nevertheless, we must make sure Gilabrand and other editors for this matter are more cautious and careful with their edits, and therefore I think a warning of some kind or even a short block should be implemented, as admins shall decide, in order to deter this editor and other editors (well, maybe even including me) from future possible edits that may violate the Wikipedia's neutral-editing rules. -Yambaram (talk) 22:04, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Nishidani

Well I've tried to stay out of this, - one gets the impression that any comment in an AE action is read tendentially in terms of where the editors are coming from, and thus, since all are putatively POV-pushing partisans in administrative eyes, no contributor's comment is evaluated as anything other than a power-game. That's pretty depressing. I'd much prefer that any of us, whoever, might be dealt with harshly according to severe rules of conduct. As it is, bad editors cause time-consuming grief: one has to trail them esp if hyperactive and 'mop up'. Two administrative remarks are just, I think, inappropriate.

(a) 'We previously decided that a slant absent other disruption was OK for Gilabrand.'

I.e. At a minimalist readng, Gilabrand can do what a significant number of editors from both sides refrain from doing, because their reading of what policy allows one to do with articles that are reliably sourced is restrictive. More largely, and operationally, she alone has been given a free pass to mess up normative editing procedures in the I/P area by wilful removal of RS, pro-national rewriting, misleading edit summaries, suppression of facts,etc.

(b)'I don't want content disputes in troubled areas by sides picking off editors.' I can't recall, in several earlier cases, of my ever asking for Gilabrand to be chased off. She has been a productive ce writer. But she is a habitual eraser of properly sourced material in order to push an Israeli POV. I and several others may see things differently, but there is a tacit rule we can't erase information if it is RS-based, except under very exceptional conditions. If one does, one goes straight to the talk page and sort the problem out, which Gilabrand almost never does. Gilabrand tampers persistently with RS (her 'ce' appears to consist in rewriting without actually consulting the sources, and that is the difference. I can't see anyone 'picking her off'. I see her constantly, day in day out, stepping over a fine line between comprehensive article sourcing, checking and finding new or better ones, and copyediting that systematically removes RS in order to 'disappear' anything she diapproves of as inappropriate for Israel's image. The technique used in the edit-summaries is repeatedly deceptive.

For the record here's my reading of the first 5 diffs.

(1) edit summary ‘advocacy site not RS’ at Jordan Rift Valley

This is pure deception ‘The singular’ ‘advocacy site’ refers to one of the two sources, Americans for Peace Now, not to (B'Tselem). The former is an advocacy site, and must not be used. But Gilabrand also removed with it (B'Tselem).the B’tselem source here, with the other, which is not an advocacy site, and everywhere used in the I/P area. I.e. she used a pretext to elide an RS under cover of removing another. 10 seconds googling would have told her the data here are widely attested in usable sources.

So the edit summary was deceptive, and the effect was to remove an impeccable RS by sleight-of-hand.

(2) On the articled Israel–Jordan peace treaty, there was a section: ‘Alleged Treaty Violations’, which Gilabrand summarily removes as ‘off-topic’. There is nothing alleged about ‘treaty violations’. It is a well-sourced historical fact. No one familiar with the facts would challenge it.

It wasn’t off-topic. It was sourced reliably, and the sourcing could be improved, and the section expanded. P. R. Kumaraswamy , ‘Israel, Jordan and the Masha’al Affair,’ in Efraim Karsh, P. R. Kumaraswamy (eds.) Israel, the Hashemites, and the Palestinians: The Fateful Triangle, Frank Cass & Co, London 2003 pp.111-126. ‘Amman saw the attack not only as a violation of Jordanian sovereignty but as a violation of the 1994 Israel-Jordan peace treaty.’

(3)

Edit summary ‘ce; anachronistic.’ The ce fixed a serious error. At the same time it (a) failed to control the RS (Benny Morris 2004, since that source has no pagination, and should have been supplied in revision). Had she checked Benny Morris p.256, she would have realized that he mentions the village was ‘captured and depopulated’ in a scorched earth operation, precisely the details she opts to elide from the text. Such details are not ‘anachronistic’ since the depopulation of Beit Daras is not an ‘anachronism’. It is true that you can choose to remove as excessive details from the lead, but Gilabrand’s pattern of editing is to erase all mention of massacres, evictions, deaths with the ‘neutral’ voice of ‘captured by Israel’. . .(silence)

(4)

The edit summary ‘ce; not RS’ is again wholly deceptive. For while copywriting, Gilabrand removed a key historical fact concerning an Israeli massacre, documented by Israel’s foremost historian of the era, Benny Morris, and by Israel jounalist Danny Rubenstein . This is widely accepted in Israel (Eyal Benvenisti, Chaim Gans, Sari Hanafi (eds) Israel and the Palestinian Refugees, ‎Springer/Max Plank Institute 2007 p.121)

5

Edit summary.’ ce’

Nope. Source falsfication combined with failure to fix the link. The text she saw read:

According to UNRWA several of the camp's residents have lost their homes as a result of operations by the Israeli military. UNRWA began reconstruction efforts in the early 2000s, but work has largely been halted due to the blockade imposed by Israel on the Gaza Strip following the Hamas take-over of the territory after battles with rival faction Fatah. UNRWA states that at least 10,000 housing units are in need of reconstruction.^[1]

Gilbrand writes:

UNRWA initiated construction projects in the camp in the early 2000s, but work was halted by the Hamas take-over of the territory. UNRWA envisaged the construction of least 10,000 housing units.^[1]

What has she done here?

The text she altered spoke of (a) housing destruction by the IDF (b) the blockade of building materials is lost from view, giving the impression Hamas might be responsible for failure to build (c) the key UNRWA word ‘reconstruction’ implying building accommodation to replace housing destroyed by IDF operations is replaced by ‘construction’, as if this was some new real estate project starting from zero. The overall effect is to make Israel’s hand in events invisible, and imply the whole situation is autochthonous. This is the original source she distorts

. RECONSTRUCTION OVER THE YEARS, MANY OF THE REFUGEES LIVING IN KHAN YOUNIS LOST THEIR SHELTERS IN ISRAEL DEFENSE FORCES OPERATIONS. PRIOR TO THE IMPOSITION OF THE BLOCKADE, UNRWA HAD COMMENCED A SIGNIFICANT RE-HOUSING PROJECT TO ACCOMMODATE ALL THOSE WHO HAD LOST THEIR SHELTERS. HOWEVER, THE BLOCKADE PREVENTED UNRWA FROM BRINGING IN CONSTRUCTION MATERIALS TO COMPLETE THE PROJECT, LEAVING THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE WITHOUT PERMANENT SHELTERS. UNRWA ONLY RECEIVED PERMISSION IN 2010 TO BRING IN THE MATERIALS TO COMPLETE A NUMBER OF HOUSING UNITS FOR REFUGEES WHOSE SHELTERS WERE DEMOLISHED YEARS AGO. UNRWA ESTIMATES THAT IT MUST CONSTRUCT A MINIMUM OF 10,000 SHELTERS TO RE-HOUSE REFUGEES CURRENTLY LIVING IN UNACCEPTABLE CONDITIONS AND/OR WHO HAVE LOST THEIR HOMES AS A RESULT OF THE CONFLICT.Nishidani (talk) 14:35, 4 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Result concerning Gilabrand

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

This complaint is excessively long (2700 words) and contains, at first glance, diffs of edits that appear to reflect content disputes. The arbitration process cannot adress good faith disagreements about content. The request should be cut down to the required size (500 words) and be limited to diffs that clearly show the violation of a Wikipedia conduct rule, such as vandalism, edit-warring, personal attacks or (excessively) tendentious editing. If that is not promptly done, the complaint may be dismissed out of hand. Gilabrand should not feel obliged to respond to all of this overlong complaint. Sandstein 20:41, 27 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I agree the length is excessive, and I'll admit I only skimmed the prose. The diffs, though, give me the distinct impression that Gila has carried on regardless since the last time she was here, despite the advice she was offered by Georgewilliamherbert (talk · contribs) (who closed the AE thread), Debresser (talk · contribs), and myself (see the last three sections of this oldid from Gila's talk page. Since then, Gila has been to ANI, where she was cautioned for other conduct that was a continuation of the sorts of issues that led to the AE thread. I think a topic ban is necessary, otherwise Gila will continue to carry on regardless, and the ensuing noticeboard threads alone will be an entirely avoidable time sink. Gila makes constructive and valuable edits to articles about Israel and Israeli culture in general, but her every foray into Palestinian topics ends up with a noticeboard thread, many of which have resulted in sanctions, as evidenced by Gila's extensive block log and repeated entries in the log at WP:ARBPIA. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:59, 27 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You may well be right that Gilabrand's editing is problematic in some manner, but I can't come to that conclusion based on the evidence submitted here. Even in shortened form, it is a list of diffs the complainant disagrees with (perhaps legitimately) on content grounds, but with little or no explanation of why they represent misconduct, such as an indication of which Wikipedia conduct rule they allegedly violate. As presented, I'd decline to act on this request. Sandstein 21:58, 27 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I'm also not seeing anything terribly problematic. ErikHaugen (talk | contribs) 23:12, 27 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

On first impression, most of the first half of the edit diffs seem to be ordinary cleanup edits, ordinary content disputes, or something that the original cited sources should confirm or deny (for example, teenager "raped and killed" vs "raped" - cited to Woods - what does the source actually say?...). However, the list move seems problematic. There are sources for the 2/3 of the list entries that I have spot-checked so far. The sources could be wrong, but the sources say "were assassinated by" not "were allegedly assassinated by". The sources state it as fact. That by itself does not rise to actionable, but probably should be moved back. The last half of the edits I have not yet checked. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 01:44, 1 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

None of the edits, in and of themselves, rises to the level of sanctionable misconduct, and—viewed in isolation—it would be very easy to dismiss them as content disputes or other matters that are not relevant to AE. However, what the initiator has not managed to convey is that there is a pattern of edits by Gilabrand, which—taken as a whole—clearly show that she is pushing a pro-Israel, anti-Palestine POV. For example:
Removal of material unflattering to Israel:

this edit removed material regarding an assassination attempt by Israel (cited to Al Jazeera), but left other alleged treat violations (those allegedly committed against Israel), and indeed strengthened the wording of one such allegation from "Article 7 notwithstanding" to "in violation if Article 7". Most of the material Gilabrand edited is not supported by the source, whereas the assassination attempt (the only part which Gilabrand felt was "off-topic") is.
this edit removes sources (including an Israeli NGO) for a sentence which mentions an Israeli settlement in an occupied territory.
this removed all mention of controversial actions by Israeli forces in the 1948 war.
more removal of material unflattering to Israel: mention of alleged depopulation by Israel is removed; as is the statement that the village is the location of ant-Israel protests. "Israel" is removed from a statement about a controversial action by that country.
a "massacre" by Israeli forces becomes an "alleged massacre"; " Israeli soldiers shot dead hundreds of Palestinian refugees and local inhabitants in one of two massacres" becomes "...were shot in the search for people in possession of arms". Prefacing such words with "alleged" is arguably a constructive edit, but by contrast, Gilabrand is only too happy to label Hamas a "terrorist" organisation. Also, "men" become "militants".
Similar watering down or removal of unflattering material about Isreali forces here, as well as replacement of "refugee" with "villager".
Removal of mention of an alleged murder by Israeli forces, addition of "reportedly" to discredit unflattering claims about Israel, all under the edit summary "ce for poor English" for an edit that was clearly going to be controversial
removal of statement that Palestinians had lost their homes as a result of Israeli operations; removal of mention of Israeli blockade.

Removal or derogation of mention of Palestine:

this one removes references to "Palestine", "Gaza Strip", and "refugee camp".
[7]
"Gaza, Palestine" → "Gaza"

That's as much analysis as I have time for at present, but I think it clearly shows a pattern of removing or diminishing mentions of Palestine (which is, at best, controversial) and removing or diluting material that is unflattering to Israel, particularly alleged misconduct by Israeli forces or alleged negative repercussions of Israeli actions or policy, such as with regard to occupied territories. Note also Gilabrand's block log, which is full of AE blocks for the same conduct, showing that this is clearly a long-term pattern. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 18:59, 1 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hm, discussions about the neutrality of individual edits are a content issue, but a pattern of editing Wikipedia only to make articles read more favorably towards one side of the conflict violates WP:NPOV as a conduct rule. If you conclude, based on your review, that this is the case here, which I can well imagine, then a topic ban would be appropriate. Sandstein 09:37, 2 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

That is indeed my conclusion, and I think an indefinite topic ban is necessary, but I'd like to leave it for another day or two to see what others have to say and to see if any other uninvolved admins want to weigh in. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:00, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Ubie the guru:, I note that you dispute my interpretation of individual edits, but the point I'm making is that the pattern in Gila's edits is problematic. I'll happily listen to arguments that I'm wrong, but just re-hashing individual diffs isn't going to do it. Also, you're remarkably familair with Wikipedia for someone with four edits to their name; please log into your main account. @Greyshark09:, @IZAK:, the conduct of Gila's opponents doe not excuse her own; if you want to discuss the conduct of other editors, please file a separate request against name individuals; I will happily evaluate it with the same open mind as I have this request, and I will personally sanction anyone whose misconduct is brought to my attention, but sweeping assertions against a large group of editors are not relevant to the request against Gilabrand. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 10:52, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The conduct of everyone sets a background level of tolerance on a given subject matter. When does innocent exiting become slanted to one side, when does a slant become editing to advance a particular POC, when does POV editing become disruptive.

We previously decided that a slant absent other disruption was OK for Gilabrand. Or, tolerable to the community. There was a specific name-calling claim after that which was ambiguous but only burned up AGF margin in my mind. My question - has anyone posted a diff demonstrating worse behavior since the prior decision than what we decided was suboptimal but tolerable?

I am not convinced. I am convincable, but not so far.

There is a line out there, but I don't want content disputes in troubled areas by sides picking off editors. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 09:10, 4 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hablabar

Not actionable as a complaint. If an appeal was intended, please use {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}} or talk to the sanctioning admin. Sandstein 18:36, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Hablabar

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: Interfase (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 21:23, 27 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested: Hablabar (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan 2 :

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

24 February 2014 Removed the section based on reliable sources from the article

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

Warned on 25 February 2014 by Interfase (talk · contribs)
Warned on 25 February 2014 by Interfase (talk · contribs)

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

When I tried to improve the section about Etymology of Azerbaijan article adding the historical map as an illustration some users were against this map in the section. User Hablabar also wrote that he is against the map. I filled a request in Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard where the coordinator wrote: "I don't see what that argument has to do with the meaning of the word "Azerbaijan" which is all that the Etymology section is about. It's not about what territory the term includes, it's only about how the word originated." After that I added new section in the article, where the usage of the term "Azerbaijan" for the territory of Azerbaijan was described. The section was based on reliable sources. After that the coordinator in Dispute resolution noticeboard closed the discussion with statement "Filing editor has created a new section and intends to discuss whether the Caucasus map is appropriate in that section. The dispute for which this listing was made, dealing with the Etymology section, thus appears to be resolved". But user Hablabar without any discussion on the talkpage and without any arguments against the authority of used sources removed the section. I think he do this because the discussed map could be used in this section to illustrate the usage of the term "Azerbaijan" as it was mentioned in the article. Also user Hablabar did nothing to improve the article. That is why I claimed that the edits of Hablabar was a vandalism against "Azerbaijan" article, trying to hide from the readers historical facts.

After that user wrote a request against me and without waiting my statements the descision about my topic ban was made. I claim this sanction as unfair action against me, because the descision was made without waiting of my explanation of my position. Thus, the issue should be reviewed and sanctions about Hablabar must be done.

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning Hablabar

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Hablabar

Please note that Interfase continues violating his topic ban despite the warnings, e.g. article Nijat Rahimov. Hablabar (talk) 18:09, 28 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Absurd. There is no any violations by creating the article about weightlifter. --Interfase (talk) 22:10, 28 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Notification for administrators. User Hablabar tried to show my "violations" by linking to the article about weightlifter. Actually, there is no any topic ban, claiming that I couldn't create or edit any article. This his action (as previous in Azerbaijan article) shows that the purpose of this user is to stop the improvement of Azerbaijani topic in English Wikipedia. That is why I think that the topic ban on editing the articles of Azerbaijani topic for this user must be sanctioned. --Interfase (talk) 22:16, 28 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Please note that Interfase continues violating his topic ban despite the warnings, this time it is the article Abbasgulu Bakikhanov. Hablabar (talk) 02:10, 1 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

WP:HAR. --Interfase (talk) 12:30, 1 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I am getting tired of Interfase's expressions of vengeful anger. Hablabar (talk) 15:47, 1 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I've asked Mitchell and he said that topic ban doesn't cover Azerbaijan topics in general—just topics related to the conflict with Armenia and similar geopolitical/ethnic disputes. So my edits in Nijat Rahimov and Abbasgulu Bakikhanov articles are not a violation. --Interfase (talk) 15:13, 2 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by EtienneDolet

This edit seems to be in violation as well. Étienne Dolet (talk) 22:01, 28 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

What violations are you and Hablabar talking about. First of all, these edits is not discussions as it was mentioned in topic ban sanction. Secondly, this sanction is unfair and disputed here, because the descision was made without my participation and explanations. --Interfase (talk) 22:09, 28 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

According to Sandstein's statement below, it appears that you'd have to file an appeal first and explain your situation there. As of now, you are topic-banned so these edits are in violation of it. Étienne Dolet (talk) 22:16, 28 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I will wait the final decision of this request because the previous one was done without my participation. --Interfase (talk) 22:57, 28 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Result concerning Hablabar

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

Not only is this complaint about a content dispute (about whether some text is reliably sourced enough to be retained in an article) and as such not actionable, but it is also a rehash of Interfase's conduct that caused them to be topic-banned in the section dedicated to the complaint about them, above. Consequently this complaint is made in violation of Interfase's topic ban. In addition, it appears that Interfase continues to make other edits without heed to their topic ban, such as at [8]. Perhaps this reflects a lack of understanding of their sanction, considering that the ban message did not include the explanations found in the template {{AE sanction}}.

To the extent the complaint also contains an objection to the fact that Interfase was topic-banned without giving them the opportunity to make a statement, which I agree is not good practice in most cases, this objection would need to be submitted and examined separately as an appeal, per WP:AC/DS#Appeal. Sandstein 21:50, 27 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Do you really believe that banned from making any edits or participating in any discussion related to Armenia and Azerbaijan, including related ethnic conflicts is more ambiguous than three paragraphs of tempaltese? From the discussion I had with Interfase on their talk page, I was under the impression that they were going to appeal their own topic ban; I'm not sure whether this is an attempt at an appeal or just an attempt to have Hablabar sanctioned. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 16:48, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

It certainly seems like Interfase doesn't understand their topic ban, considering that they continue to violate it. But I'll leave any enforcement up to you, as you are in discussion with them. What seems clear is that this request concerning Hablabar is not actionable as a complaint, and I'm closing it accordingly. Interfase may still file an appeal. Sandstein 18:33, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Arbitration enforcement action appeal by TheShadowCrow

Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.

To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).

Appealing user: TheShadowCrow (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) --TheShadowCrow (talk) 03:51, 28 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Sanction being appealed: Topic ban from the subject of Armenia-Azerbaijan relations, and any others stemming from it.

Administrator imposing the sanction: EdJohnston (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) or Sandstein (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA), imposer has been passed around a lot.

Notification of that administrator: The appealing editor is asked to notify the administrator who made the enforcement action of this appeal, and then to replace this text with a diff of that notification. The appeal may not be processed otherwise. If a block is appealed, the editor moving the appeal to this board should make the notification.

Statement by TheShadowCrow

I would like to appeal an indefinite AA2 ban and all other Admin-custom bans that resulted from it, such as Sandstein's ban that I can only appeal once every six months. This ban has existed for about a year and a half now and I think it's time to finally take it off. I haven't edited an article specifically about AA conflicts since October 2012 following an edit war on an AA page, which I apologize for, and I have not had any conflict of any kind for what will be 7 months next week. But a lot of recent issue with it is if I should have a sports exemption or not (which I was given by original imposer CT Cooper but got taken away on a whim), so I don't think it's serving an original purpose anymore. I'd say there has definitely been enough time to give me another chance. In the meantime I have contributed a lot on the article Joel Osteen in particular and resolved a lot of change issues peacefully with another editor on the talk page, so I think this proves I can edit in a constructive manner and should have the opportunity to for AA2 articles again. I promise I will continue to resolve edit issues on the talk page and not in edit conflicts or anything in the future. --TheShadowCrow (talk) 03:51, 28 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

User:Sandstein So basically you want to give a technical definite ban for no reason? --TheShadowCrow (talk) 18:10, 28 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

User:Penwhale My edits decreased due to college, not because of the ban. Take the amount of time for what it's worth. --TheShadowCrow (talk) 23:56, 28 February 2014 (UTC) Moved from result section below by - Penwhale | ^{dance in the air and follow his steps}[reply]

User:EdJohnston After Qwyrxian said that I explained things on his talk page and he said I don't know about the other times this has happened to, so I can't comment on them, so he is admittably saying he can't judge if I can edit Wikipedia or not. He also said a good portion of what you changed on Joel Osteen was for the positive, so it seems like you can be a good contributor. So no, it is a lie to say I was "in trouble" because nothing happened. There was a misunderstanding and it was taken to the talk page and resolved. --TheShadowCrow (talk) 20:48, 1 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Here --TheShadowCrow (talk) 21:44, 1 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

User:CT Cooper User:EdJohnston User:Penwhale I have done everything I was asked to. I waited a long period of time, I contributed to other articles, and I demonstrated the ability to discuss on talk pages with other editors, but in the end it's still not enough to remove a long since redundant ban, and it's more obvious than it was 6 months ago that majority of the admins here plan to routinely ignore reason every 6 months until I give up. I already forced myself to contribute with others to an article I didn't care about to impress them and they completely ignore it.

The result mentions If you would voluntarily set some conditions if the topic-ban is removed then it may be easier to convince me. Can I at least have my sport exemption back then? There is at least one other editor banned from AA2 with it. Would it be fair if I go back to the old rules and if all is well after 6 months discuss removing the entire ban again? I have not been involved with anything Armenia-Azerbaijan related in almost two years. Please let me have the opportunity to prove myself in noncontroversial articles I care about. --TheShadowCrow (talk) 17:54, 2 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

User:Penwhale You are misinterpreting me. I was just informing you of Sandstein's gag rule because you are the only Admin here who doesn't know the background of my ban. And I specifically told User:Cailil, Since you seemed to be open minded to me editing again on AA2 articles. That's not saying "approve the appeal", it's saying "approve the appeal if you think it should be approved". So how about unstriking your statement and going back to it?

NE Ent is right. I'm being judged unfairly, strictly and biasedly. There is no rule that says how many edits I need to make. I was told to edit other articles and work with other editors. So I did. No one else here is getting this much demanded of them. Why not just give me an indefinite block if you are going to stretch the rules to give me a technical one? --TheShadowCrow (talk) 21:16, 2 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by EdJohnston

From someone like TheShadowCrow who has been in so much trouble in the past we would expect a very persuasive appeal. For instance a clear change of heart. I'm uninvolved for purpose of this appeal since I didn't issue the sanction, though I have interacted with him in the past as an admin. (His current topic ban was issued by User:CT Cooper in 2012). The record suggests that he needs to be given very clear sanctions, since he misunderstood the sports exception and the vandalism exception. As recently as November 2013 TheShadowCrow was in trouble for edit warring at Joel Osteen. User:Qwyrxian stated, "It really seems to me that you are simply unable to adjust to the sort of collaborative processes needed to work on a wiki." This is not a good omen for letting him resume unrestricted editing on AA topics. EdJohnston (talk) 19:55, 1 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Sandstein

I'm reproducing the entries in the WP:ARBAA2 log that pertain to TheShadowCrow:

TheShadowCrow (talk · contribs) banned from all articles and discussions covered under ARBAA2 per this AE thread. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 03:38, 2 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
TheShadowCrow (talk · contribs) blocked for just over six days for violation of the ARBAA2 topic ban. CT Cooper · talk 19:27, 25 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
TheShadowCrow (talk · contribs) blocked for one month for violating the topic ban again by editing the Mount Ararat article where there was no obvious vandalism. Add to that edit-warring and incivility towards other users (accusation of racism). De728631 (talk) 23:29, 27 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
TheShadowCrow (talk · contribs) is banned from all articles and discussions covered under ARBAA2 indefinitely per this notification. This is an extension of the previous 6 month topic ban above. CT Cooper · talk 11:37, 28 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- TheShadowCrow (talk · contribs)'s topic ban was modified by User:CT Cooper on September 2, 2012, in the following manner: "Sports men and women and other general sports articles which happen to be based in Armenia, as long as it does not concern any political or cultural controversy, should be okay although you should still exercise caution."--Bbb23 (talk) 23:44, 25 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  - The above amendment is rescinded as of the 25 July 2013 on grounds that the statement was intended to be a clarification to the topic ban, not an amendment, but it has become apparent that it was the latter in practice and furthermore, it is clear that TheShadowCrow is having difficulties following the topic ban, so it should remain as simple as possible. CT Cooper · talk 20:53, 26 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
    - An appeal to WP:AE against that rescission is declined, and TheShadowCrow is additionally restricted in the frequency of any appeals not to the Arbitration Committee. Sandstein 10:23, 8 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- Due to misuse, the de facto exemption to reverting obvious vandalism in the ARBAA2 area no longer applies to the restrictions imposed on TheShadowCrow (talk · contribs). TheShadowCrow may notify an active administrator if he notices obvious vandalism which hasn't been immediately reverted. "Obvious vandalism" is defined as vandalism of which no knowledge or commentary of the article topic is required to identify. Any vandalism reports which raise issue with the encyclopedic content of an ARBAA2 article will be in violation of the restrictions. Notification CT Cooper · talk 10:35, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
TheShadowCrow (talk · contribs) is blocked for 3 months for creating a sock-puppet account to evade ARBAA2 editing restrictions. CT Cooper · talk 13:16, 17 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

In view of this and TheShadowCrow's very long block log, I don't anticipate anything but more trouble if any sanctions are lifted, and would decline the appeal. (To the extent it matters, I consider myself uninvolved for the purposes of this appeal, except to the extent that TheShadowCrow also appeals my admin actions, which, it appears from the above, consist only of limiting the frequency of appeals against the other sanctions.) Sandstein 17:59, 28 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Bbb23

I no longer know whether I'm involved when it comes to TSC, so I'll err on the side of caution and post here. TSC's appeal should be rejected. He has never done anything to demonstrate that he is capable of editing responsibly since being banned. Over and over he asks for the ban to be lifted, promising to be better, but expecting others to take him at his word despite being told repeatedly that he must first edit outside of his topic area in a collaborative and constructive fashion. Nor does he respond well to such rejections, engaging in wikilawyering and unfounded accusations against those who do not agree with him. If he expended even half of the energy he spends on attempting to have the ban lifted on improving the project, he might find things would go better. This is a pretty straightforward case.--Bbb23 (talk) 14:38, 2 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I'll add more "concrete" data, although some has already been provided. From September 2013 until now, TSC has edited six articles. They have edited two article talk pages. The majority of his edits have been to Joel Osteen, both the article and the talk page. He seemed to be combative in November of last year but has edited more constructively (that's based on a cursory inspection) this year.

It's an improvement, I think, over previous behavior, but not a particularly compelling record for six months. I understand if real life interferes with his ability to edit, but then it shouldn't matter that much to him if he can't edit the articles he wants to edit because he doesn't have that much time here anyway. Unfortunately, the burden is on him to demonstrate convincingly that the ban should be lifted.--Bbb23 (talk) 21:44, 2 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by CT Cooper

I'm commenting here due to my previous extended involvement with TSC, though since July 2013 other admins have taken over the task of supervising TSC due to myself being inactive on Wikipedia. However, I have still kept a general eye on what has been going on and TSC has sometimes contacted me on my talk page to express frustration with the sanctions. I have advised TSC in the past that the best way to get the sanctions lifted was to prove himself in other areas, which hasn't happened, though I acknowledge that TSC has been busy with college. Despite the many bumps in the road I do think TSC has become a more constructive editor and understands better why some of his past behaviour was unacceptable – particularly when compared to when the sanctions were first imposed in July 2012. However, there are still issues which have already been highlighted by other users here, particularly when it comes to collaborating with other editors in contentious areas. It is clear that TSC has strong views on issues relating to Armenia-Azerbaijan and I think he should examine whether it would ever be appropriate for him to edit in those topic areas extensively, regardless of whether or not he is allowed to do so.

My overall view at this time is that I cannot say confidentially that if the sanctions were lifted, there wouldn't be problems, so I cannot recommend that they be lifted at this time. However, I remain open minded to narrowing them if the case can be made for that. CT Cooper · talk 16:17, 2 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@TheShadowCrow: Well lets look at this from an admin point-of-view shall we, if I or other admins recommend the sanctions are lifted, and then you cause a huge amount of trouble in the Armenia-Azerbaijan area, then said admins will at best get a heavy trout slapping, at worst a heavy whale slapping. This is as much about building trust than anything else, and continuing to push this idea that there is a great admin conspiracy against you, particularly when I have told by me you not to do so, does not help matters. Nor does emotional rhetoric about how we should give you an indefinite block. If you are unhappy about how things are, you are ultimately free to leave the project, or you can stay and edit any topic area except Armenia-Azerbaijan topics. These sanctions are hardly a terrible burden to bear.

Yes you were told to go and edit other article areas, and yes you have done so, however the Joel Osteen case is not exactly a gleaming example – your behaviour there was better than it has been before, but it was hardly commendable. You did listen to the warming that was given, but why was such a warning necessary in the first place? The concept that we discuss things on the talk page rather than engage edit warring should be one of the first things a new editor learns. You should have known better. It also appears you still don't know what vandalism is, despite having been told multiple times. Furthermore, while the conversation on the talk page was ultimately productive, some remarks you made, particularly your opening comment, were unhelpfully antagonistic in places – it was fortunate that other editors choose only to respond to the substance.

I notice you seem to very desperate for these sanctions to be lifted and your comments indicate you have few other interests. That in itself, worries me. My instinct tells me that you will behave differently when editing Armenia-Azerbaijan articles in which you are interested in and have strong views over, against those you don't care much about at all. I also notice that whenever I get onto whether it is appropriate for you to edit Armenia-Azerbaijan article, you dodge the issue. I have to ask myself why that is? Are your motives here that of an activist or that of an encyclopediaist? We could with me more of the latter, not of the former. Perhaps it would be helpful if we shared why you are so keen for these sanctions to be lifted. What articles do you want to edit and what improvements do you want to make?

You asked for specific goals; I think that's a good idea. As a start I would like you see you substantially improve at least one article with some contentious content, by moving it up at least one grade on the assessment scale and resolving any disagreements on the talk page, while not receiving any justifiable complaints of misconduct from other editors. The more articles you cover, the more improvements you make, and less complaints you receive, the more likely the sanctions will be lifted. I accept six months is a long time, so I would support allowing another review in three months if we can agree on specific goals. CT Cooper · talk 23:02, 2 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

On the canvassing issue, I was also contacted about this appeal by The Shadow Crow. However, the use of my username meant I had already been alerted to this discussion via the notifications system, and I was already planning to comment either today or tomorrow. On this comment, I can see that it wasn't neutral but I don't see it as any more than a technical breach of WP:CANVASS, since he was after all, contacting an admin that blocked him. It most certainly isn't grounds, on its own, to dismiss the appeal and to make TheShadowCrow wait another six months – a mild warning on WP:CANVASS will be sufficient. CT Cooper · talk 23:18, 2 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by NE Ent

Wow. Tough crowd. So what it comes down to is due to a solitary screw-up in just under six months The Shadow Crow must remain sanctioned? Did you notice how they didn't whine and wikilawyer after the warning at User_talk:TheShadowCrow#Joel_Osteen. Did you see how they worked a making a GA (which I guess is supposed to be important around here), and used a sandbox to get their edits in place before moving in mainspace?

Well, if you're going to be setting hoops they have to jump through, ya'll could at least have the decency to be a little more concrete. How many drama free mainspace edits, or many articles do you want them to work on before the next appeal? Anything else? GA? FA? NE Ent 18:47, 2 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Shadow Crow, I said strictly, not unfairly -- Wikipedia doesn't "do fair," sorry. How about we all agree Shadow Crow makes some non-trivial editing to at least twenty different articles over the next six months? We can define "non-trivial" as sufficient editing to remove some of those ugly tags from the tops of articles -- that will give them opportunity to interact with other editors to reach agreement enough work has been done to remove the tags. Obviously no edit warring. NE Ent 22:12, 2 March 2014 (UTC) (This would include, per Penwhale's interpretation, discussion on article talk page leading to such improvements) NE Ent 00:01, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

P.S. Pinging the admin who blocked you is canvassing now? That's a reach ... I'm certainly not seeing the polite note asking TSC to stop the guideline suggest how to respond. NE Ent 22:25, 2 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by TheShadowCrow

Result of the appeal by TheShadowCrow

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

Eh... I'd like to see a bit more activity in other areas (there are less than 70~80 edits since September 2013, to which today would make exactly 6 months) before considering granting this appeal. - Penwhale | ^{dance in the air and follow his steps} 20:56, 28 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@TheShadowCrow: I understand there may be other underlying situations, but I still would like to see you being a bit more active in other areas as the lack of other edits make someone who is trying to assess the situation neutrally hard to do so due to lack of proof. If you would voluntarily set some conditions if the tobic-ban is removed then it may be easier to convince me. (Basically: Without edits in other area I'm not fully convinced that we should outright lift the existing restrictions.) - Penwhale | ^{dance in the air and follow his steps} 00:04, 1 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

For transparency, TSC posted [9] at my talk page. I do think there's a need for appeals to be only heard every X months, but I'm willing to offer this: That we will hear an appeal sooner than 6 months from now if it can be shown that TSC has made significant positive edits in other areas. - Penwhale | ^{dance in the air and follow his steps} 05:28, 2 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Replying to NE Ent, I see contribution to 6 article pages and 1 additional talk page of an article since TSC came off block. Among the 81 edits since the expiration of block, 27 were to main articles and 13 to article pages - of which 14/12 were to Joel Osteen and Talk:Joel Osteen. It's a good thing that TSC is trying to raise the Osteen article to GA, but when you make fewer than 50 edits on mainspace/talk page in a 6-month span - and that half of said edits are to a singular article (and its talk page), the activity level is simply not there to justify us loosening the current sanctions. If we count the sandbox edits (which there are 17), then the number comes out to 43 edits related to Osteen - and that's more than half of the edits during this time. I'd like to see TSC's edits spread out a bit more in the main space across different topic areas. It's unfair for me to ballpark a number, but I just think the edits are not spread out across different areas enough for me to suggest altering the sanctions. I also agree with Cailil that TSC's edits to people on their talk pages (instead of putting them here) is troublesome and can be construed as canvassing. Based on this, I have to strike my statement which suggested loosening the appeal intervals. - Penwhale | ^{dance in the air and follow his steps} 21:01, 2 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@TSC: The fact is, for an appeal process to be judged fairly everyone needs to be on the same page; there's a reason why I said that my talk page is not a suitable location in my reply to you there.
@NE Ent: I would have had no problem if TSC alerted CT Cooper and Cailil when the appeal is being made. The issue I have is the fact that TSC asked them (on their talk page) to post here after DangerousPanda's comment below that leaned towards declining the appeal. That being said, I would have no problem with your suggestion with one change to it: that non-trivial participation in discussions on the talk page would count towards the number (i.e. TSC doesn't actually have to make the actual edits on the article pages provided that significant participation on talk page can be proven). - Penwhale | ^{dance in the air and follow his steps} 23:43, 2 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Any appeal such as this must link to a) significant positive edits outside of the area of the topic ban, and b) positive interactions with others. I see very few edits, and I even see a handful of very problematic ones. The "readiness test" has not been met D P 21:07, 1 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Under the apparent impression that I would alter consensus here in favour of his appeal TheShadowCrow has asked me to comment [10]. In so doing he's just breached WP:Canvass. That alone is reason to refuse - this is not a game TheShadowCrow.
DangerousPanda has made an excellent post above me and I support their view. Contrary to Penwhale given the level of problematic behaviour here I do think a minimum of 6 months for another appeal is appropriate given the level of trust TSC needs to rebuild and given the time it will take to demonstrate the kind of change in attitude both I and DangerousPanda are outlining here. After that initial 6 months, on the basis that some objective, and evident progress is made, then and in that case I'd be happy to see appeals after improvement rather than definite lengths of time--Cailil ^talk 14:19, 2 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Penwhale & @NE Ent, a looser wording but still within the same bracket would be "after 6 months of positive substantial contributions to wikipedia TheShadowCrow may appeal again." Indefinite topic bans cannot, by definition, be timed out & 70 edits (including his edits to this thread) is just not enough for a judgement reversing well founded AE actions. These actions are lifted when they are demonstrably no longer necessary. TSC needs to show consistently that he can keep cool and has indeed developed a WP:CLUE--Cailil ^talk 12:04, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Askahrc

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Askahrc

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: Vzaak (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 17:49, 2 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested: Askahrc (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Pseudoscience#Discretionary_sanctions

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

There is some administrative time lag here. I planned to submit this AE upon the closing of an SPI, which was expected to be contemporaneous with the ANI Askahrc recently initiated. However the SPI backlog has been so large that it has taken a full two weeks for the SPI to be closed.

Per this SPI, Askahrc has been strongly admonished for using an IP sockpuppet to harass users and waste the community's time.[11]

Askahrc's harrassing behavior -- issuing threats behind an IP sockpuppet -- was used to support the arbcom case he brought, which begins, "This request for arbitration is to resolve recurring threats..."[12]

That SPI is for old behavior, and Askahrc has already been sanctioned for that old behavior. That might be water under the bridge were it not for Askahrc's continued disruptions. The purpose of this AE request is to address recent behavior (not the past sockpuppeting behavior). To wit:

Askahrc has been proxying blocked user Tumbleman's aspersions against editors.[13][14][15][16] (The reason for Tumbleman's block is here:[17].)

Askahrc sought to reinstate Tumbleman's first edit to the Rupert Sheldrake article, described in the first paragraph of my statement in Tumbleman's AE[18]. I and others patiently discussed the matter with Askahrc on the talk page.[19] The case against Askahrc's proposal was quite strong, and he didn't seem to understand or address the arguments presented against it. When he failed to gain consensus for the change, he began an ANI[20] (which was dismissed).

In the ANI, Askahrc cited the threats he made from his own IP sockpuppet to support a claim that editors are being reprimanded (the link is "reprimanding").

There are many issues in the ANI, for example Askahrc twice accused me of WP:UNCIVIL and WP:HARASS.[21][22] When I asked for evidence of such,[23] none was forthcoming.

The ANI also indicates incompetence on Askahrc's part. For example, prior to the ANI, I politely gave Askahrc a pointer to WP:LQ [24] because his edit[25], with comment "Periods go within quotations", is against the MOS. The sources do not contain the periods that Askahrc inserted into the quotes. Yet in the evidence he supplied for his ANI, Askahrc denounced my revert, mistakenly thinking that he "actually corrected a violation" of WP:LQ.[26]

Askahrc has been promoting the idea that "a large number of innocent editors have been blocked as collateral damage" as Tumbleman sockpuppets (same links as the proxied aspersions: [27][28][29][30]) and has accused me of "an inappropriate tendency to accuse people" of sockpuppetry.[31] Askahrc contests, for example, this SPI, for which the evidence was called "overwhelming" by the admin evaluating the SPI.[32]

Askahrc has additionally written WP:POLEMICAL stories on his talk page. For example one says, "I set out seven shots on my desk, one to go in my belly and six to go in my revolver",[33] where "revolver" is a (mis-formatted) link to the recent ANI he started. Obviously I don't interpret this as a "real-life" threat, but it may be the most uncomfortable WP:BATTLEGROUND statement I have ever seen.

vzaak 17:49, 2 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

Warned on 22 November 2013 by 134.139.22.141 (talk · contribs)
Warned on 5 January 2014 by Callanecc (talk · contribs)

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

To address the shopping accusation, this AE request is orthogonal to the SPI. Nobody would expect action to be taken on months-old sockpuppetry. The SPI is simply to establish past behavior. This AE request addresses recent behavior. vzaak 19:25, 2 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Penwhale: the SPI isn't for the behavior in February, and the result of the SPI isn't for the behavior in February. All but the first two bullet points are about recent behavior. vzaak 21:24, 2 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I've modified my statement to address the SPI confusion. Consider the alternative: submitting an AE request with an open SPI. That would amount to asking AE admins to evaluate a relatively large AE request and a large SPI case, and I can well imagine AE admins saying, "Please respect our time; come back when the SPI is complete." The SPI backlog was unfortunate, but it shouldn't prevent admins from evaluating the AE case. vzaak 22:38, 2 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Sandstein: @HJ Mitchell: Only the first two bullet points refer to the SPI; the rest of the bullet points are recent activity.

Askahrc's sockpuppeting could charitably be called trolling, serving no purpose but to stir up conflict. The SPI establishes that behavior, and I wouldn't have brought the AE request without having established that.

Now, recently, we see similar deception in his citing of his own sockpuppet as evidence in his ANI. Askahrc continues the pattern of provoking needless conflict. As shown above, this recently involves making baseless attacks on users, proxying aspersions from a blocked user, spreading misinformation about past SPIs, not listening/responding to arguments regarding content decisions, not even recognizing simple things like MOS:LQ, and bringing a frivolous ANI case when he couldn't get his way.

I am frankly uncomfortable with a user saying that he is loading up shots into his "revolver", with his "revolver" being an ANI. (It doesn't matter that Askahrc changed it to shots being loaded into his "hip", meaning into his gun.) vzaak 21:32, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

So many of Askahrc's points are not true; I could respond to each one, but the overlong response would probably put people off. For instance it's not true that "the edit in question has been one of the most frequently changed on the page by nearly a dozen editors". Over the course of seven months the quote was removed by only two people, Tumbleman and David, and David restored the quote himself after realizing his replacement was inaccurate.[34] It's amazing that Askahrc would make a claim that is debunked by just looking at the article history. Askahrc's promulgation of falsehoods and other recent behaviors are consonant with Askahrc's past trolling activities. vzaak 02:22, 4 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Presumably a final note: I suspect at least one reason Callanecc has agreed to a topic ban is that he is familiar with Askahrc's record of activities, not only Askahrc's past trolling but his recent SPI defense, where another admin expressed concern about deception.[35] This AE request presents evidence that this pattern of behavior continues elsewhere. With 191 edits to article space over six and a half years, Askahrc is unlikely to suddenly become an active contributor. Rather, Askahrc is here for the drama, and few besides Tumbleman (with whom Askahrc has teamed up off-wiki to cast aspersions on WP editors and admins) have done more to stir up needless conflict than Askahrc. Please direct Askahrc to cease making baseless WP:ASPERSIONS and balmy WP:POLEMICs. Further, I believe it has been shown that Askahrc seriously fails to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia and the expected standards of behavior per Wikipedia:Discretionary_sanctions#Sanctions. vzaak 13:30, 4 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

[36]

Discussion concerning Askahrc

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Askahrc

Let me get this straight, half of the AE is spent discussing an SPI that Vzaak then concedes has no relevance to this AE except as some sort of character reference? I've already agreed to respect and abide by the SPI admin's judgement, whether or not I agree with their conclusions, and have done nothing to violate those terms. It seems Vzaak was hoping for a harsher SPI result and is now shopping for that ban.

As for the rest of this AE, what exactly am I being accused of?

Disruption: The vast majority of all of Vzaak's diffs are instances where I disagreed (civilly, I would add) with Vzaak on content or procedural decisions, without a single diff showing any actual disruption or abuse. When consensus went against me I always conceded, never edit-warred and proposed very moderate changes that were based on balance, not some parapsychological belief system I do not possess. As far as my "polemics", the verbiage in question on my openly fictional allegory was immediately changed when I realized it could be misconstrued as inflammatory, and it is disingenuous to present that diff as if it were my displayed talk page. I have never promoted a WP:BATTLEGROUND mentality and denounced partisanship even in my ANI against Vzaak, a position I've upheld when other editors responded to that ANI on my Talk Page by literally declaring war on me.
ANI: As best I can tell the only issue Vzaak takes with my ANI is that one of my dozen or so diffs was to the IP referenced in the SPI case, and that I didn't provide diffs for my charge of WP:UNCIVIL and WP:HARASS. This is easy to address: Disregard the IP diff and note the CIVIL diffs primarily reference Barney, not Vzaak, because he is the editor in the ANI who had been uncivil. I felt Vzaak had displaying harassing/WP:OWN behavior, so the diffs to Vzaak highlighted that.
Proxying: Last and most serious, this accusation appears to be based on the fact that I have continued to look into the Tumbleman issue and made occasional edits to Rupert Sheldrake. I have noted hostile behavior that has been referenced by many other editors besides Tumbleman, and the edit in question has been one of the most frequently changed on the page by nearly a dozen editors. I did email Tumbleman to find out more information and have documented all of the results of that conversation on my Talk Page in order to be utterly transparent. That's being informed, not proxying. It is ludicrous to accuse me of proxying when my conclusion was that Tumbleman WAS guilty of multiple accounts and that I supported his current ban. My concern is with current editors facing ongoing behavior like this SPI -> AE combo with the excuse of some similarity to Tumbleman's opinions, not with promoting Tumbleman himself.

To sum up, Vzaak's examples of my abusive behavior include: disagreeing with Vzaak, declaring that Vzaak's reactions to disagreement are excessive (which was immediately followed by a SPI and AE against me), and being upfront with getting more information on a banned editor. Are these AE offenses? There are no diffs of unreasonable edits, no abuses, no evidenced anywhere showing my behavior on Rupert Sheldrake itself to be inappropriate in any way. I have not and will not abuse the Sheldrake page and respectfully urge reconsideration of a topic ban. The Cap'n (talk) 03:50, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by The Devil's Advocate

The SPI was just closed with a discretionary sanction imposed on The Cap'n and there have been no further edits by the editor since then. It seems Vzaak is displeased that the sanction was not tougher and is now shopping for a better result.--The Devil's Advocate _{tlk. cntrb.} 19:01, 2 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Despite what Vzaak and SQ/IRWolfie say, it is clear the SPI was more than a mere sock-puppetry case. Nearly everything being mentioned here was mentioned in that case. This is just bludgeoning someone with the process. At least one of the admins involved in the SPI would have been more than capable and well within their discretion to impose a topic ban based on all the information provided. We are dealing with the essence of forum-shopping here. If Vzaak wanted to play for all the marbles then he should have come here and not try to prolong the pain with two different noticeboard trips in retaliation for being taken to a noticeboard.--The Devil's Advocate _{tlk. cntrb.} 05:33, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Just noticed that Vzaak previously tried to get an admin to go after Cap'n concerning most of the non-sock issues being cited here. Many details are being rehashed in this AE that have previously not resulted in action despite being brought before admins with the intent of getting action.--The Devil's Advocate _{tlk. cntrb.} 05:54, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Second Quantization

The SPI was about sockpuppetry and did not consider other areas of disruption by Askahrc. It is not forum shopping. What is the relevance of the date of the SPI filing to anything else? Second Quantization (talk) 23:38, 2 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Barney the barney barney (talk) 21:02, 3 March 2014 (UTC)=

I find that Mr Askahrc (talk · contribs) has been problematic, confrontational, condescending and failing to WP:IDONTHEARTHAT. I can't work out if he's pro-Sheldrake or just a self-appointed BLP warrior. Credit to him for trying his best to present the pro-Sheldrake view. The thing is we've bent over backwards to try to make the Rupert Sheldrake article positive by noting his support within the new age/pro-psi parapsychology communities, even though this support is not at all in any way relevant to the quasi-scientific claims he's making. Either way he's not helpful and should probably be strongly advised to stay away from the article Rupert Sheldrake. Then we'll see if he's a BLP warrior or not by whether he (1) chooses to go to another controversial BLP and try to whitewash that or (2) will go and try to subvert Citizendium with Tom Butler (talk · contribs). He's had enough WP:ROPE by now though. Barney the barney barney (talk) 21:02, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Liz

The Cap'n's main argument, as I've seen it, is that editors outside a tight-knit skeptics circle are chased off from editing certain articles, in this case Rupert Sheldrake. These repeated attempts to file charges against him by Vzaak help to make his argument for him. As far as "disruption", I've mainly seen him post an opposing point of view from the skeptics but having a different opinion from a small majority is the cause to begin seeking consensus, not to receive sanctions.

As for being problematic, confrontational, condescending and failing to WP:IDONTHEARTHAT, well, that charge could be levied against several editors who edit in the area designated "pseudoscience". It is a very polarized editing field on Wikipedia. Unfortunately, I see this effort as an attempt to silence an editor with a contrary opinion which makes this a content issue, not a conduct issue. I think issuing topic bans because someone disagrees with the dominant editors on a subject, whatever topic that is, has a chilling effect that sends the message to other editors to "stay away" from editing articles in this subject area. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:39, 4 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Result concerning Askahrc

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

I see nothing even remotely actionable since February 16 which is when SPI is filed (and thus a good point in time to consider the merit of this request). - Penwhale | ^{dance in the air and follow his steps} 21:10, 2 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you vzaak. Making it easier for assessment... I'm going to suggest the same thing as I did below at the Tom Butler section: TBAN from Rupert Sheldrake. - Penwhale | ^{dance in the air and follow his steps} 00:06, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

As the admin who issued the previous sanction, I've no problem at all with this being imposed in addition to my sanction. Given the behaviour vzaak has linked and described above that that which I saw when investigating the SPI I think a TBAN from Rupert Sheldrake would be appropriate. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 10:40, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not interested in references to stuff that has happened in other fora, and that's all this report seems to consist of. I'm interested in dated diffs of recent misconduct. No such diffs have been submitted here, and as such, I'd decline to act on the request as submitted. Sandstein 18:29, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

What, exactly, are we being asked to assess here? There's a lot of old stuff from the SPI, which is probably too old to be actionable now. Its only use might be if the initiator were trying to establish a long-term pattern. The only recent diffs seem to be comments from Askahrc on noticeboards and talk pages, which do seem to indicate a battleground mentality, but there's not enough there to convince me that we need to act on this now, especially given that much of it appears to have been looked at elsewhere. Are there diffs for recent edits (preferably to mainspace rather than noticeboards and talk pages—we shouldn't [normally] sanction somebody for ranting on their talk page, and ANI is perfectly well-equipped to deal with misconduct at that board if necessary) that are so egregious that we should be considering sanctions, or which show an ongoing pattern of lower-level disruption? HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:15, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Tom Butler

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Tom Butler

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: Second Quantization (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 23:27, 2 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested: Tom Butler (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Pseudoscience#Discretionary sanctions :

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

18:19, 26 February 2014 WP:SOAPBOX
17:38, 26 February 2014 Downplaying rejection by the scientific community
17:55, 26 February 2014 Unreasonable demands on references by demanding very specific text. Rejection of 8 sources which support the text.
26 February 2014 inserting citation needed tag when 19 sources follow the sentence, demonstrating the range of rejection. (See the notes in the article)
17:27, 26 October 2013 WP:BATTLEGROUND mentality
21:16, 13 October 2013 Removal of a sourced statement critical of Sheldrake.
16:35, 13 October 2013 Attempts to make Morphic resonance appear like a scientific hypothesis
15:47, 13 October 2013 Further Attempts to make Morphic resonance appear like a scientific hypothesis (edit warring)
11 October 2013 Bold addition of a citation needed tag after the previously mentioned list of 19 sources an deletion of material. Followed by edit warring to force his edits: 11 October 2013 11 October 2013
01:56, 28 January 2013 Removal of sourced statement discussing the link between spiritualism and insanity.

This is a continuation of a trend which has been going on for years:

18:07, 24 December 2011 Removal of sourced criticism. (Repeat)
17:53, 23 December 2011 Removal of sourced criticism.
16:42, 3 July 2011 Removal of sourced medical articles
17:25, 25 January 2011 POV push at pseudoscience with the edit summary: "This article has turned into a skeptical billboard".
17:43, 24 November 2010 Fringe promotion
20:04, 27 December 2008 Removal of criticism of a fringe proponent.
17:32, 15 January 2008 Fringe promotion.
19:13, 27 January 2007 Removal of mainstream point of view.
17:42, 4 December 2006 Further fringe promotion, rewording beliefs into "hypothesis"

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

Warned on 13 January 2014 by Georgewilliamherbert (talk · contribs)
Warned on 17 June 2011 by KillerChihuahua (talk · contribs)

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

See [37] and [38] for explicitly laying out of battleground behaviour/worldview. This editor has been problematic over a prolonged period in the topic area of pseudoscience and fringe science. Second Quantization (talk) 23:27, 2 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

76.107.171.90 (talk · contribs) did much of the leg work for the diffs: [39].

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

[40]

Discussion concerning Tom Butler

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Tom Butler

There is little point in responding in detail. I think diff # 7: 16:35, 13 October 2013 provided by Second Quantization pretty well sums all of this up. His statement for that diff: " Attempts to make Morphic resonance appear like a scientific hypothesis." In fact, the subject is "Hypothesis of Formative Causation." That is what the still living subject of the biography calls it. "Morphic resonance" is what he has named as one of the possible mechanisms. This is a simple fact that should be disclosed in the article. Interestingly, there seems to be no place in Wikipedia for a reader to discover the details of the hypothesis ... only that the man is a pariah of science.

A modern curse: "May you have a biography article in Wikipedia."

The real issue is a group of cooperating editors (see here for example) are working to avoid words in articles they think add special significance to the subject because they have managed to classify the subjects as pseudoscience.

"Broadly interpreted" (does it actually say "construed" anywhere?) has been taken to mean "Anything that sounds scientific." Reading the Pseudoscience arbitration report, I do not see that there was an intention of the admins to block balanced reporting in articles or open discussion on talk pages concerning alternative views of science.

The other two arbitrations that seem to apply to this question Fringe and Paranormal also leave room for reasonable exchanges and disclosure. It is simply not encyclopedic to give the reader only half the story or to couch the subject in terms intended to bias the reader. Yes, it is important to explain the amount of community support, but you have to at least disclose what is being talked about in a fair manner.

All of my edits have been intended to balance articles and certainly not push an agenda promoting the subjects. All of my comments on talk pages revolve around the same intention. Yes, I get a little testy, especially on a talk page that have seen several admin charges and blocking of editors. The Rupert Sheldrake talk page certainly is not a cooperative place, and as Simonm223 noted here, I did say as much to him. My apologies Simonm but you did petty much get in my face with those references.

Simonm, take a look at the comments by Barney: "... he has somewhat bizarre beliefs about the paranormal and his own competence to investigate the paranormal" and "His does not seem to have a great grasp of reality." I am going to guess his idea of " to become competent" means to repent, denounce pseudoscience and pledge myself to scientism. And then he attacked PhiChiPsiOmega. Do not wonder that I say it is not civil around here.

Oh, and Barney, it is insulting that you assume, after all I have said, that I intend to use Citizendium as a platform for biased articles. Have more respect for me as I do for the editors there! I do hope to see articles that are balanced and fair. If not, then I will host the subject area in the Collective. It is important that the public is at least aware of these concepts, but believe me, I am the last person working with paranormal subjects to want to see faith-based articles. But then, I doubt you can comprehend that.

To all of the editors here, consider the embattled atmosphere you have come to think of as normal. Look at how many editors supporting balanced articles have been banned. Then look at the likes of super skeptic ScienceApologist who openly edits and even talks to support banning others. One of his major campaigns under his earlier screen name was to get rid of civility rules. Many of you look up to him, else he would not be around.

One of the funniest exchanges I have seen on Wikipedia is also a sad demonstration of the poised waters. it is here. You have to ask yourself why there are so many seemingly well educated people coming along to say that the articles are not balanced, and why it is necessary to spend so much time defending yourselves and your idea of Wikipedia. It is irrational to not question yourself, as well.

You will succeed in banning me, if not now, certainly later. As it happens, I was staying away to write a book but someone poked at me and here I am again. It is necessary that I get back to work in the real world, and yes of course, this action will be in the book :-). Tom Butler (talk) 23:41, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Simonm223

Tom Butler came to my attention on February 26 when I noticed him attempting to change language regarding the scientific consensus surrounding Sheldrake's morphic resonance concept. He stopped short of WP:3RR but responded on the talk page with rather hostile comments.

[41]

I asked him to be careful about personal attacks and his response was to tell me that the article was never civil, suggesting WP:BATTLEGROUND sentiments.

[42]

That was the last I heard from him on this thread. However he reappeared during a discussion with a new user PhiChiPsiOmega who also had reservations about the consensus view regarding parapsychological articles. I have suggested elsewhere that PhiChiPsiOmega would benefit from mentorship somewhere away from these articles to learn the ropes.

[43]

Instead Tom Butler reached out to him and made statements that first assumed no good faith and second appeared to be aimed at recruiting him to act in a WP:MEAT fashion with conversation off-site.

[44]

Tom Butler also made statements that walked the edge of WP:NLT.

[45]

I cautioned him about using words like slander on his talk page (because the decision had been reached already that WP:AN/I was not the appropriate venue for the conversation) and he responded to me insisting I take the converstion back to the AN/I page. When I declined he did anyway, directly breaching WP:NLT.

[46]

I'm concerned that when you combine his contentiousness, threats of legal action and tendency to assume bad faith with his actions trying to drive a wedge between editors he may see as kindred spirits and the Wikipedia community you create a dangerous combination.

One final note - I'm confused by Tom Butler's comments (listed in a diff above) that I was upset about him recruiting people for Citizendium. I'm not sure where he got that sense from. Simonm223 (talk) 00:35, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by TheRedPenOfDoom

Penwhale - while he may have specific COI issues re: Sheldrake, and that is where much of his current editing is also focused there, the evidence above is from a number of different pseudoscience articles and their talk pages such as Mediumship, Energy medicine, and Pseudoscience itself. Without a ban on all p-sci topics, it seems likely that the troublesome editing will just shift to a different article. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 00:52, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by PhiChiPsiOmega

If I may say something to Penwhale (nice to meet you, BTW), I do not find any problem with Tom Butler, despite some of the bizarre beliefs he holds. Simonm's argument about him doesn't seem supported, and I would really like to talk about parapsychology more objectively, perhaps in a more formal setting? PhiChiPsiOmega (talk) 8:25 pm, Today (UTC−5)

OK. Simon's statement above is wildly inaccurate. Mr. Butler may have bizarre beliefs, but he's not "latching on to me", and there is absolutely nothing in those posts of his implying legal action. He's only saying Rupert Sheldrake is thinking of suing. If Simon can point out where exactly TOM's threat lies, I would be glad. Until then, this framing of Mr. Butler doesn't work, and I think the committee should reconsider its decision. If not now, then sometime in the future. PhiChiPsiOmega (talk) 20:53, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

He also exhibits no battleground mentality. Like me, he simply thinks this has gone far enough, and that the other side of the academic debate on psi -- the proponents -- needs to be included. Here, you are only representing one half of the articles and literature and completely ignoring the other half, including their replies to the first. My case stands that the literature on this is labyrinthine, and labeling it "pseudoscience" is not an easy task, especially for a Wiki article. PhiChiPsiOmega (talk) 20:53, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

(Removed long list of names that had no apparent relevance to this request. Sandstein 21:24, 3 March 2014 (UTC))[reply]

Statement by Barney the barney barney (talk) 14:20, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

It is my opinion that a ban from all fringe/pseudoscience articles, broadly construed, is appropriate. Tom Butler (talk · contribs) is simply not WP:COMPETENT to edit. The reason for this is that he has somewhat bizarre beliefs about the paranormal and his own competence to investigate the paranormal. His website [47] which he's posted a link to on his user page, is extremely enlightening. His does not seem to have a great grasp of reality.

The strange thing is he seems to recognise that he's not going to get any traction on Wikipedia for his bizarre ideas, yet continues to surreptitiously try to make edits here. Maybe he wants to turn himself into some kind of martyr, I don't know. Best that he just goes away and stops wasting people's time. It's low level disruption, but it's persistent.

He also thinks he and other editors can go over to citizendium and contribute there. Although I understand that that project is (1) dead in the water (2) I understand that citizendium has realised its previous errors in allowing self-appointed "experts" to WP:OWN articles (thus an expert with training in homeopathy can prevent critical commentary on what clearly is WP:BOLLOCKS). Citizendium needs Butler about as much as Wikipedia does, which is not at all.

My suggestion would be for (1) an indefinite ban and (2) a ban from all fringe articles. I believe that (1) Tom isn't going to change his world view any time soon, and is unlikely to become competent (2) any half-hearted subject bans will steer him into being disruptive in slightly different areas. Anything less than a full whack will in the long term inevitably result in further low-level disruption on different pages, and will end up back here again.

I have already predicted that PhiChiPsiOmega (talk · contribs) will go the same way for WP:IDONTHEARTHAT on WP:FRINGE. It is telling who his supporters are. Barney the barney barney (talk) 14:20, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by iantresman

I think that most admins who do some basic fact-checking, will find that the criticisms are (a) misleading (b) not supported by the diffs.

18:19, 26 February 2014 Butler is explaining himself, as you would expect from a talk page discussion. There is not one sentence consistent with any part of WP:SOAPBOX
17:38, 26 February 2014 Butler is not downplaying anything, and is well aware of the rejection of Sheldrake by members of the scientific community. Butler is critical of (a) the phrase "scientific community", being used to suggest that it speaks unanimously with one voice, (b) based on a finite number of sources.
17:55, 26 February 2014 Makes no demands or rejections, and makes reasonable points.
26 February 2014 Butler does not dispute that the 19 sources offer a range of rejections. He is asking for a single citation that the "scientific community" as a whole, reject Shelrake.
17:27, 26 October 2013 WP:BATTLEGROUND mentality? He's editing his user page. He makes no aggressive changes.
21:16, 13 October 2013 Butler removes a sourced statement critical of Sheldrake, preumably because the article text is misleading and inaccurate (in my opinion too)
16:35, 13 October 2013 Butler is using the same term as is used in many sources
15:47, 13 October 2013 As #7, the same term as used in peer reviewed papers
11 October 2013 As #4.
01:56, 28 January 2013 Butler removed a section on "Mental Health" which makes no connection with any of Sheldrake's work.

There is no doubt that members of the scientific community have rejected Sheldrake, and many have rejected his work, and even called it pseudoscience. Suggesting it is unanimous and absolute is a gross mispresentation of the facts (sources), and Butler has already acknowledged that there "many" who reject Sheldrake (#2 above). --Iantresman (talk) 21:17, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Goblin Face

I already filed a complaint against Tom Butler and PhiChiPsiOmega on the Administrators' noticeboard [48]. Butler is not on Wikipedia to edit articles, his entire existence is to just stir trouble for Wikipedia because his fringe beliefs are not being supported on this website. His agenda is anti-Wikipedia to cause problems here about his conspiracy theories regarding "censorship" and skeptics. I am very surprised this user has not been banned considering all the damage he is trying to do to it off this website: Not only does he have part of his own website attacking Wikipedia and it's policies [49] but he spams anti-Wikipedia comments and conspiracy theories about "skeptics" high jacking wikipedia articles on paranormal blogs and websites:

Tom Butler anti-Wikipedia comments

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

"After being remained about the futility of trying to reach consensus with Wikipedia editors, my natural reaction is to take my efforts for balanced reporting elsewhere. Perhaps a wiki titled: “Wikipedia Truth Watch.”

In their devotion to mainstream ideals, skeptical editors are well organized and help one another while more moderate editors are not inclined toward activism nor are they inclined to organize.

Reliable sources are required for every statement of substance; however, that rule is used to say that virtually all publications supporting the study of things paranormal are not allowed as references while virtually any publication negative toward things paranormal are allowed–This is a result of skeptic control of the encyclopedia." [50]

"I would like to add my two cents worth. I have been an editor for a number of years and was involved in the decisive administrative action that resulted in a permanent ban of probably the last truly effective editor who was a supporter of fair treatment for paranormal articles." "Editing Wikipedia is truly an exercise in futility. I let myself be drawn in from time to time to at least put my point on record, but also to see how the problem has evolved. I learn more about people each visit, but my wife Lisa and I have otherwise concentrated on countering Wikipedia with education."

[51] and he has an entire anti-Wikipedia website here: [52]

"The problem is that Wikipedia policies have made it possible for Skeptics to dominate parts of the online encyclopedia. These faceless people have run off virtually all of those of us who think an encyclopedia should say what something is without characterizing it as good or bad. Those who persist in making what they consider more balanced entries are often subjected to abuse that is more like the Lord of the Flies than a collaborative community." [53]

What I find hilarious is that he constantly claims to be "neutral" and "objective" and has the aim of allegedly making Wikipedia "balanced" but in actual fact all he wants to do is delete any critical or skeptical material on paranormal related articles. He openly rejects the scientific consensus. If anyone adds anything critical about these subjects he calls that editor "biased". I look through his edits and there's nothing constructive. He seems to be mostly using this website as a forum for his conspiracy theories.

Butler's "alternative" to Wikipedia that he has been promoting on here and encouraging users (see his comment to PhiChiPsiOmega) to join has been open for a few months and since that time he has created only two articles, one is selectively copied and paste from the parapsychology article on Wikipedia and the other is an article on near-death experiences with 0 critical or skeptical content. So much for balanced articles. Goblin Face (talk) 00:44, 4 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by 76.107.171.90

@Penwhale – If you don’t think that enough evidence has been provided to show that Tom is WP:NOTHERE to build an encyclopedia and that Tom has exhibited a pattern of disruptive behavior then please tell me what evidence you would consider sufficient to meet the burden of proof. Tom Butler’s editing history chronicles seven years of fringe pushing behavior and more diffs are easily supplied. Alternately, you could open Tom’s history and just look through it. Fringe pushing is essentially all that Tom has ever done at Wikipedia so you won’t really have to search for problematic edits, you can just click on them at random and the evidence will present itself. 76.107.171.90 (talk) 12:44, 4 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Liz – Barney, Red Pen, and Roxy were all involved in Sheldrake. Goblin Face named Butler in a complaint at WP:ANI. Simon encountered Tom on Sheldrake’s talk page. And jps encountered Tom when he was editing Electronic voice phenomenon. Everyone I alerted has a history with Tom Butler. 76.107.171.90 (talk) 17:07, 4 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Liz

I think it should be mentioned that 76.107.171.90, who originally wrote up this request case (although Second Quantization submitted it on his behalf) was canvassing for this request for enforcement to Barney, The Red Pen of Doom, Goblin Face, Simonm223, jps and Roxy the dog, all editors who were likely to post statements against Tom Butler and have been known to agree in past debates. These were the only individuals he notified about the case. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 16:37, 4 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Result concerning Tom Butler

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

Urgh. I suggest TBAN from Rupert Sheldrake. Conflict of interest issues may also apply here. - Penwhale | ^{dance in the air and follow his steps} 23:51, 2 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@TheRedPenofDoom: For the last 6-month period almost all of Tom's edits in the topic area are to Sheldrake. If he causes problem elsewhere we can deal with it with a more blanket ban, but since there's so much focus on Sheldrake it's a better solution to just ban him from that page at this time. - Penwhale | ^{dance in the air and follow his steps} 00:56, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Penwhale's assessment. The confrontational attitude reflected in these diffs is problematic. Sandstein 18:23, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I also agree that a topic ban from the Sheldrake article is the best way to do; there's no evidence that Tom has caused (recent) disruption on other articles. If problems move to other articles after the narrow ban, we can broaden it. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:24, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Pigsonthewing

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Pigsonthewing

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: NuclearWarfare (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 17:53, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested: Pigsonthewing (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Infoboxes#Pigsonthewing and infoboxes :

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

See generally Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2014 March 2

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required): N/A

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

A user recently wrote to me to point out Andy Mabbit's recent deletion nominations of a number of navigational and informational pages in the template namespace. I am concerned that this breaches the relevant Arbitration remedy linked above: "Pigsonthewing is indefinitely banned from adding, or discussing the addition or removal of, infoboxes". However, I wanted to get other opinions before taking any unilateral action. NW (Talk) 17:53, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The comments here are all very reasonable. The user who initially emailed me also pointed to [54] as evidence of misconduct, but I disagree and ask that this request be closed. NW (Talk) 03:49, 4 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

[55]

Discussion concerning Pigsonthewing

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Pigsonthewing

Statement by Harry Mitchell

Andy's a personal friend of mine in real life, so I won't take any part in this as an admin, but I was under the impression that the remedy concerned additions to and removals from articles—the case came about as a result of persistent rows on article talk pages (and associated edit wars) about whether a given article should have an infobox. I wouldn't have thought that making infobox-related edits (such as nominating infoboxes for deletion) that aren't about whether a particular article should have an infobox would be in violation of the remedy. Perhaps a clarification/amendment request is needed—the remedy should probably end with "to or from articles" or spell out exactly what it means. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 18:27, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by RexxS

Over the last month Andy and a couple of other editors have cleaned up Wikipedia:List of infoboxes, classifying 4000+ templates. This effort identified about 400 templates that are used in less than five articles. Some of these will be redundant to other highly-used templates and replacing them would be a step towards improving the maintenance of templates, since changes (like re-writing into Lua) then need to be done fewer times. Andy has been looking at a number of these and proposing some for deletion over the last few weeks. In several cases, these have led to replacement of virtually unused templates with equivalent ones. In other cases, debate has thrashed out the issues and discussion is continuing. Here's an example:

Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2014 February 21 #Template:Infobox stable isotope

On one occasion, Andy Dingley decided to direct his argument at Andy, rather than the issue of keeping a template that's only used on two pages:

Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2014 February 21 #Template:Infobox material

You'll notice that Andy does not rise to the bait and respond to the off-topic ad hominem at that point. The closing admin considered that two transclusions were enough to justify keeping that template. All of Andy's activities at TfD have been aimed at maintenance of templates - a far cry from the focus of the Infobox case that went before ArbCom.

So I am astonished that anyone is attempting to widen the scope of the already broad ArbCom remedy "Pigsonthewing is indefinitely banned from adding, or discussing the addition or removal of, infoboxes" into the area of infobox templates, specifically the arena of Templates for deletion. ArbCom's deliberations during the case criticised Andy's involvement in content matters, but recognised his technical expertise and value in maintenance of templates. It goes completely against the spirit of last September's remedy to attempt to find yet another area from which to ban Andy and this request needs to be dismissed as mistaken. --RexxS (talk) 18:56, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Sandstein: No, Andy is not suggesting that anyone remove infoboxes from articles, only that the present infoboxes be replaced by more common ones in an effort to reduce the unnecessary proliferation of little-used templates. Your second argument is meritless as it would prevent Andy from, for example, replacing Template:Stable isotope with Template:Isotope in an article and ArbCom certainly never suggested that Andy should be prevented from changing one infobox into another. More importantly, even then, Andy would not have to be the editor who replaced infoboxes in an article. That's not how TfD works - this is a wiki and there are plenty of other editors who can carry out the decision of the closer at TfD. --RexxS (talk) 19:06, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Montanabw

There is no violation; Andy's restriction was specifically limited to articles, and only to the adding and removing of infoboxes in articles. Here, we are talking cleanup and technical work on the underlying templates that infoboxes use, not the "adding or removing" of infoboxes to articles. Nothing in the Arbcom decision stated that Andy was banned from all discussions, broadly construed, about infoboxes - and definitely not infobox templates. His competence in this area is unquestioned and he does some very critical cleanup work. Further, this is one of wikipedia's best-known contributors with known technical competence - though perhaps being interviewed on all tech considered by NPR counts for nothing? This is nothing but scapegoating of an editor who is trying to remain a content contributor and useful member of the community while working with the constraints of an arbcom decision. Do not read into the decision what isn't there. Montanabw^(talk) 23:54, 3 March 2014 (UTC) @Sandstein: deletion of a template doesn't "remove it from the article" due to redirecting. For example, {{Infobox thoroughbred racehorse}} recently became {{Infobox racehorse}}, and not one single infobox disappeared due to this change. Montanabw^(talk) 23:54, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Gerda

Andy deserves a barnstar. RexxS, Floquenbeam and others explained well why. (I said at some point (back in 2012) that nothing surprises me here anymore, but this did.) Lets look at an example: there was {{infobox Bruckner symphony}} with ten inclusions, it was replaced by {{infobox musical composition}}, the other was deleted. The original infobox was added on 10 August 2007, the replacement was done on 10 June 2013. The reader sees the same as before (actually more), especially today. To clean up like that, replace little used infoboxes by more general, well maintained ones, is excellent gnomish work for the higher quality of Wikipedia and deserves a barnstar, not this. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:21, 4 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Andy Dingley: The above example of his effort to cleanup little used infoboxes is dated before the arb case, why should he stop his beneficial work? He can work well with me, check your premises, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:33, 4 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Andy Dingley

Andy Mabbett does not have a topic ban because of his view that infoboxes either should, or should not, be used. He has a topic ban because he finds it perennially impossible to work with others and this came to a head over infoboxes. The topic ban is not there because "his answer is wrong", but because his methods and attitude are disruptive overall. It is a regular problem on WP, especially around topic bans, that a particular editor becomes fixated on some topic and there is trouble in that area (If you have had a topic ban imposed, it's clearly not all sweetness and light). Such editors are commonly most reluctant to move away from their same area of fixation, even after repeated warnings, and this is not something likely to end well. Another regular occurrence is the banned editor wikilawyering to be just outside the ban's scope, as close as they can possibly get without breaching it. That is not an act that recognises the wisdom of the ban overall and is instead sticking two fingers up at the banning community to say, "You were wrong to exclude me".

I'm here now (even on WP I have better things to do than waste time discussing Andy Mabbett) because I was cited above for making ad hominem attacks. It is not an ad hominem to note that someone busily engaged in infobox template deletion is under a closely related topic ban, even if careful study does show that they're acting just outside the boundaries of such a ban.

As to the basis of these deletions, yet again WP finds itself discussing "programming" issues in a way that would make any experienced coder weep (It is regular WP practice to exclude expert template coders from working on templates because templates, via protection, are seen to, and are made to, require an admin's skillset, not a template expert). Useful principles like abstraction are ignored, in favour of trivial bean counting. "We should delete {{Infobox material}} because it is only used twice" is nonsense. It is firstly easy to measure that it is used twice, but a lot harder to judge whether the template is useful. A much better question (per WP:IMPERFECT) is instead "How often can this template be used?" {{Infobox material}} offers a lot of potential uses in mechanics and materials science, whether it is currently used much or not. Judging it based on current uses is just pandering to Andy Mabbett's need to work on infoboxes, and an easy metric for choosing which to delete. Andy Dingley (talk) 11:18, 4 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Gerda. Congratulations on being able to work with Andy Mabbett. If you can extrapolate your ability to work with him into the non-existence of a larger group of people who have found it impossible (and hence the topic ban), then you might have a point. Do you dispute that there is in fact a topic ban in place? No-one claims that it is impossible for anyone to work with Andy Mabbett, simply that it has already proven impossible for a substantial majority to do so. Andy Dingley (talk) 11:59, 4 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Result concerning Pigsonthewing

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

As far as I can see, PotW is not opening up issues over whether or not to include a box in any given article, but is concerned merely with the technical question of weeding out some extremely rare and presumably redundant templates for them. It seems like a harmless enough thing to do. Was it really the intention of the committee to ban this kind of activity too? Fut.Perf. ☼ 18:05, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The remedy in question is Pigsonthewing is indefinitely banned from adding, or discussing the addition or removal of, infoboxes. I would say that putting up items in TfD (despite this D standing for Discussion, it's obvious what he suggests the fix is (to remove them). (Especially where he states A valid reason for deletion [56]. So yes, I think that this is a violation of the restriction. SirFozzie (talk) 18:17, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict) In my view, the request has merit. The relevant remedy reads "Pigsonthewing is indefinitely banned from adding, or discussing the addition or removal of, infoboxes." By creating numerous deletion nominations for infobox templates, Pigsonthewing is discussing the removal of the corresponding infoboxes in the affected articles, in violation of the remedy. This should be acted on per Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Infoboxes#Enforcement. Sandstein 18:20, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, but he isn't actually trying to "remove" anything from the articles, is he? He just wants to exchange one technical means of implementing it with another. No actual change in page content. Or am I missing something? Fut.Perf. ☼ 18:22, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

He's asking for the deletion of the templates, which would remove the infoboxes from the article. To the extent he might want to replace them with something else, he's discussing the addition of infoboxes, which he's also banned from. Sandstein 18:25, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm, gotta say, while your logic is somehow formally valid, it does strike me as rather a bit over-formalistic. If I'm banned from adding or removing the word "poo" from articles, and I make a proposal of exchanging the wiki-code <emph>poo</emph> against the wiki-code ''poo'' somewhere, then of course you might argue that my edit has first "removed" poo and then "re-added" it. But in reality it has neither; it has merely exchanged one method of packaging it against another; what's on the page for the reader to see is still the same poo, unchanged. Fut.Perf. ☼ 19:09, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

If there was no harm done, then I don't think sanction is suitable. I do think that once the current categorizing effort is done though that Andy should refrain from doing so in the future. Or at least ask people before hand. - Penwhale | ^{dance in the air and follow his steps} 21:00, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I usually stay out of AE (true even when I wasn't on AC), but to prevent a mistaken sanction that could bring an infobox-related request to the committee yet again and cause me to run screaming into the night: This is not a breach of the remedy. He's not allowed to add infoboxes to articles (the "to articles" is implied, but is clearly the intent if you read the rest of the case). He's not allowed to discuss the addition or removal of infoboxes to or from articles (again, the "to articles" is implied but fairly clear). He actually could technically remove an infobox from an article (as long as he didn't discuss it!), but that will happen, well, when pigs fly. He can certainly nominate an infobox for deletion without violating the remedy, especially when what he's really doing is proposing to absorb one kind of infobox into a different kind of infobox. He could also create some new kind of infbox out of whole cloth, as long as he didn't add it to an article. Now if there was disruption of some kind involved in all this, that could be handled without going through AE, but it doesn't look like anyone is claiming that. Surely this doesn't require a clarification request? --Floquenbeam (talk) 21:26, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

^ ^a ^b Cite error: The named reference UNRWA was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

[1] The administrator may indicate consent at any time before, during, or after imposition of the restriction.

[2] This criterion does not apply if the original action was imposed as a result of rough consensus at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard, as there would be no single enforcing administrator.

[UNRWA-3] Cite error: The named reference UNRWA was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

[a]

[b]

[1]

@@ Line 749: / Line 749: @@
 ====Statement by 76.107.171.90====
 @Penwhale – If you don’t think that enough evidence has been provided to show that Tom is [[WP:NOTHERE]] to build an encyclopedia and that Tom has exhibited a pattern of disruptive behavior then please tell me what evidence you would consider sufficient to meet the burden of proof.  Tom Butler’s editing history chronicles seven years of fringe pushing behavior and more diffs are easily supplied.  Alternately, you could open Tom’s history and just look through it.  Fringe pushing is essentially all that Tom has ever done at Wikipedia so you won’t really have to search for problematic edits, you can just click on them at random and the evidence will present itself.  [[Special:Contributions/76.107.171.90|76.107.171.90]] ([[User talk:76.107.171.90|talk]]) 12:44, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
+:@Liz – Barney, Red Pen, and Roxy were all involved in Sheldrake.  Goblin Face named Butler in a complaint at [[WP:ANI]].  Simon encountered Tom on Sheldrake’s talk page.  And jps encountered Tom when he was editing [[Electronic voice phenomenon]].  Everyone I alerted has a history with Tom Butler.  [[Special:Contributions/76.107.171.90|76.107.171.90]] ([[User talk:76.107.171.90|talk]]) 17:07, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
 ==== Statement by [[User:Liz|Liz]] ====

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