Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard

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Administrative discussions

ANI thread concerning Yasuke

(Initiated 36 days ago on 2 July 2024) Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1162 § Talk: Yasuke has on-going issues has continued to grow, including significant portions of content discussion (especially since Talk:Yasuke was ec-protected) and accusations of BLP violations, among other problems. Could probably be handled one sub-discussion at a time. --JBL (talk) 17:50, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

Closure review of The Telegraph RfC

(Initiated 29 days ago on 9 July 2024) Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard § RfC closure review request at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#RFC: The Telegraph on trans issues's discussion seems to have died down. Hopefully I've put this in the correct section. Aaron Liu (talk) 03:49, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

 Doing... —Compassionate727 ^(T·C) 16:56, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

This discussion is a huge headache. I'll keep working on it as I have time, but if somebody else wants to close this before I do, I won't complain. —Compassionate727 ^(T·C) 02:14, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

you could put the draft on the discusssions about discussions page, WP:DfD? Tom B (talk) 09:08, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

Nah, I know what the result should be, I just need to write an explanatory statement. That will happen this weekend, Lord willing. Thanks for the resource though, I had no idea that existed. —Compassionate727 ^(T·C) 19:54, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

Hi Compassionate727. I want to make sure this is still on your radar. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 14:58, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

Yes, and it's very nearly done. There's no reason I shouldn't finish it tomorrow, if not tonight. —Compassionate727 ^(T·C) 20:44, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

 Done. I fear I'm going to ruffle some feathers with that, but I do believe it both the correct outcome and the most inoffensive one. —Compassionate727 ^(T·C) 22:58, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

...why do you think the most inoffensive option is to re-close the original RFC to Option 1? What's your evidence that was the consensus of that original RFC? Loki (talk) 23:44, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

Requests for comment

RFA2024, Phase II discussions

Hi! Closers are requested for the following three discussion:

• (Initiated 97 days ago on 2 May 2024) Administrator recall
• (Initiated 94 days ago on 5 May 2024) Designated RfA monitors
• (Initiated 94 days ago on 5 May 2024) Reminder of civility norms at RfA

Many thanks in advance! theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 04:27, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

 Doing... reminder of civility norms. voorts (talk/contributions) 00:24, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

 Partly done reminder of civility norms. voorts (talk/contributions) 00:40, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

If re-requesting closure at WP:AN isn't necessary, then how about different various closers for cerain section(s)? I don't mind one or two closers for one part or another or more. --George Ho (talk) 17:39, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

During Phase I of RFA2024, we had ended up having multiple closers for different RFCs, even the non-obvious ones. I think different people closing subparts of this should be acceptable Soni (talk) 09:22, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

Bumping this as an important discussion very much in need of and very much overdue for a formal closure. Tazerdadog (talk) 18:40, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

Talk:Gaza genocide#RfC on the inclusion on the BU Today article in the lede

(Initiated 47 days ago on 22 June 2024) nableezy - 17:53, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Titles of European monarchs

(Initiated 46 days ago on 22 June 2024) - I thank the Wikipedia community for being so willing to discuss this topic very extensively. Because 30 days have passed and requested moves in this topic area are already being opened (For reference, a diff of most recent edit to the conversation in question), I would encourage an uninvolved editor to determine if this discussion is ready for closure. AndrewPeterT (talk) (contribs) 22:34, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

(Also, apologies if I have done something incorrectly. This is my first time filing such a request.) AndrewPeterT (talk) (contribs) 22:34, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

There is ongoing discussion there as to whether a closer for that discussion is necessary or desirable. I would suggest to wait and see how that plays out.--Wehwalt (talk) 14:58, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

This is dragging on ad nauseam. I suggest an admin closes this, possibly with the conclusion that there is no consensus to change. PatGallacher (talk) 17:50, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Reliability_of_Thomas_Lockley

(Initiated 36 days ago on 2 July 2024) - The original topic (Lockley's book, "African Samurai: The True Story of Yasuke, a Legendary Black Warrior in Feudal Japan") has not been the focus of discussion since the first few days of the RFC when it seemed to reach a concensus. The book in question is no longer cited by the Yasuke page and has been replaced by several other sources of higher quality. Since then the subject of the RSN has shifted to an extension of Talk:Yasuke and has seen many SPA one post accounts hijack the discussion on the source to commit BLP violations towards Thomas Lockley almost exclusively citing Twitter. Given that the general discussion that was occuring has shifted back to [Talk:Yasuke] as well as the continued uptick in SPA's committing NOTHERE and BLP violations on the RSN, as well as the source in question is no longer being used - I think closure is reasonable. Relm (talk) 20:17, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

Talk:Hermann_Göring#Rfc_for_Herman_Göring's_Lede_Image_(2024)

(Initiated 35 days ago on 4 July 2024) Discussion is ready to be closed. Nemov (talk) 01:09, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

Talk:Nikola Tesla/Nationality and ethnicity#Nikola_Tesla_birthplace_,_review_after_10_years

(Initiated 33 days ago on 5 July 2024) This is a contentious issue, so I would like to ask for an uninvolved editor to properly close. Please have consideration to each argument and provide an explanation how each argument and source was considered. People have strong opinions on this issue so please take consideration if their statements and claims are accompanied by quotes from sources and whether WP guidelines are followed. We need to resolve this question based on sources and not opinions, since it was discussed multiple times over the years. Trimpops2 (talk) 23:46, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia_talk:Edit_filter_manager#RfC about the status of this page

(Initiated 32 days ago on 6 July 2024) Discussion is fairly simple but as this is a policy discussion it should likely receive uninvolved closure. EggRoll97 ^(talk) 04:03, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

Talk:La France Insoumise#RfC: How should the political position of La France Insoumise be described?

(Initiated 31 days ago on 7 July 2024) Discussion has already died down and the 30 days have elapsed. Uninvolved closure is requested. Thanks a lot! Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 21:45, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#RfC: National Post

(Initiated 30 days ago on 8 July 2024) Discussion has mostly died down in recent days. Uninvolved closure is requested. — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 19:44, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

Seems like a pretty clear SNOW close to me. voorts (talk/contributions) 19:52, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

Didn't need a formal closure, but  Done anyway. —Compassionate727 ^(T·C) 23:19, 6 August 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Proposal to revise CSD R3

(Initiated 29 days ago on 9 July 2024) Poster withdrew the RfC but due to the language used, I think a summary by an WP:UNINVOLVED editor would be preferable. Nickps (talk) 20:52, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

Talk:Hosni_Mubarak#Rfc_for_lede_image_for_Hosni_Mubarak

(Initiated 28 days ago on 10 July 2024) This is ready to close. Nemov (talk) 19:34, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

Talk:List of South Korean girl groups#RfC for whether there should be an "end date" on active groups just because they don't have activity

(Initiated 27 days ago on 11 July 2024) Participants requested for proper closure. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 18:02, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Deletion discussions

XFD backlog

V	May	Jun	Jul	Aug	Total
CfD	0	0	10	0	10
TfD	0	0	20	0	20
MfD	0	0	5	0	5
FfD	0	0	0	0	0
RfD	0	0	95	0	95
AfD	0	0	5	0	5

Other types of closing requests

Talk:There was no such thing as Palestinians#Merge to Golda Meir?

(Initiated 252 days ago on 29 November 2023) Discussion started 29 November 2023. Last comment 25 July 2024. TarnishedPath^talk 00:34, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

Talk:Twitter_under_Elon_Musk#Requested_move_24_May_2024

(Initiated 75 days ago on 24 May 2024) Originally closed 3 June 2024, relisted following move review on 17 June 2024 (34 days ago). Last comment was only 2 days ago, but comments have been trickling in pretty slowly for weeks. Likely requires a decently experienced closer. Dylnuge ^{(Talk • Edits)} 01:54, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)/Archive 194#Notifying_Wikiprojects_and_WP:CANVASS

(Initiated 72 days ago on 28 May 2024) Latest comment: 3 days ago, 79 comments, 37 people in discussion. Closing statement may be helpful for future discussions. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:29, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

 Doing...— Frostly (talk) 22:35, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

@Frostly Are you still planning on doing this? Soni (talk) 16:57, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

Soni, yes - have drafted close and will post by the end of today. Thanks! — Frostly (talk) 17:56, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

I wanted to note that this is taking slightly longer than expected, but it is at the top of my priority and will be completed soon. — Frostly (talk) 05:14, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

Archived. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^{put'er there} 13:32, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

Talk:You Like It Darker#Proposed merge of Finn (short story) into You Like It Darker

(Initiated 70 days ago on 30 May 2024) Contentious merge discussion requiring uninvolved closer. voorts (talk/contributions) 01:35, 5 August 2024 (UTC)

Talk:2024 Nuseirat_rescue operation#Proposed_merge_of_Nuseirat_refugee_camp_massacre_into_2024_Nuseirat_rescue_operation

(Initiated 60 days ago on 8 June 2024) Since much of the discussion centers on the title of the article rather than its content, the closer should also take into account the requested move immediately below on the talk page. Smyth (talk) 15:17, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

If the closer finds "no consensus", I have proposed this route in which a discussion on merger and RM can happen simultaneously to give clearer consensus.VR _{(Please ping on reply)} 20:10, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Need advice/help dealing with an IP

184.20.209.241 (talk · contribs) has been bugging me and several other editors regarding the My Little Pony tv + comic series, specifically begging "these must be for children, so they can't be dark stories", or "if this is going to be dark, they can't be for kids, and should be marked as adult stories." I don't know whether the user is trolling , a poor English speaker, a child, or the like, but this is all the user has done and is starting to get to a point of bothersome. I do note that this user has apparently been aggravating people on an MLP wikia and is trying to bring that "fight" here. His actions certainly aren't disruptive, but they are annoying.

I don't know what action can be taken here, since by good faith I would think the user is just confused, but this has been going on far too long. --MASEM (t) 03:08, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

• Looks like normal trolling to me. My Little Pony is a common target for trolls as its fans tend to be young and easily riled. If they seriously have issues with the show's plot (or whatever) they'd stop watching or write in to the people who actually make the show, not bug random wiki editors. I see they had a final warning already last month so if they're still at it it's block time. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 13:52, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

With a splash of AGF, I'd expect that the IP is someone very young who is mixing up Wiki for WikiA. On a lot of Wikias forum like discussions are pretty common and generally allowed. Blackmane (talk) 15:55, 11 June 2013 (UTC) Kafziel has blocked the IP. Blackmane (talk) 15:57, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

[Referring to the struck part:] Not possible. One of their edit summaries specifically references some kind of feud with another editor on MLP Wikia (who is, in their words, "crazy and dumb"). It's pretty clear that they're trolling the MLP Wikia too, presumably with the same or similar material. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 16:54, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

I have a strong belief that the editor is trolling. As I commented on their page, their claims seem to be inconsistent and they keep going back and forth. Furthermore, at one stage they kept adding nonsense to the article claiming the comic series featured extreme violence, gore, sex etc. Perhaps they could have really been so confused once, but after it was pointed out to them it did not have this, they appeared to briefly accepted this before adding the claim again. Nil Einne (talk) 18:41, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

Yeah they're not consistent at all, alternating between pretending to know nothing about the comic obviously being familiar with its plot details. But even besides that their main claim (that there's an official "adult" My Little Pony comic with lots of graphic sex and gore) is so silly that it could only possibly be trolling. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 20:30, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

The troll has been appropriately blocked. Trolls are bad enough, but trolls who try to confuse children are worse than usual. Robert McClenon (talk) 23:33, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Well, the block expired and he's back again [1]. I've asked the blocking admin to consider a re-block, if that's not done first from here. --MASEM (t) 23:55, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

I went ahead and blocked them again. Any benefit of the doubt is just about run dry at this point. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 00:48, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Hence my striking of my initial comment, though valid on the surface, but on going through the rest of IP's contribs it's pretty obvious it's jsut the latest round of MLP trolling. Blackmane (talk) 09:25, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Inactive possible sockpuppets of a banned user

I've a question that this seems the most appropriate board to ask this on. As part of WP:WikiProject Qworty clean-up, I've come across a few accounts that look like they may have been Qworty sockpuppets, but have also been inactive for a year or more. What is the proper way to deal with such accounts? Tag them? Report them to some board or other? Or just assume that since they're inactive they're not harmful? Seth Kellerman (talk) 04:50, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

I don't know for certain what we should do, and I am not an administrator, but I think we should just tag them as suspected sockpuppets. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 05:08, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

At Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Qworty/Archive, Dennis Brown made it very clear that he thought it was not a good idea to tag inactive suspected sockpuppet accounts. Binksternet (talk) 05:39, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

I would just leave them be. The odds that any of those accounts would be resurrected seem pretty slim to me. 28bytes (talk) 05:58, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

You could create an edit filter to flag them if they start becoming active. Not perfect solution but its possible. Kumioko (talk) 16:25, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Unresponsive user

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

This is a minor but ongoing issue where perhaps an attempt by someone else will have more effect than my efforts have had so far.

User:Candleabracadabra, an editor since April 2011 with some 6,000 edits, is a regular creator of new articles. Despite multiple requests, his creations don't have any categories and don't even have the "uncat" tag either. Considering that he has (including many redirects) created 1269 articles, which as far as I can see all had that problem, I believe this is not really acceptable.

I have noted this problem at his talk page three times (at User talk:Candleabracadabra#Categories; 24 May, 27 May, and 3 June), but he hasn't responded at all nor changed his behaviour (see e.g. Mercantile Bank Building (Jonesboro, Arkansas)), so I'm looking for a good soul who is willing to give it another try or who can find another approach with better results. Fram (talk) 09:15, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Treat them as you would any other editor who continues with disruptive editing despite warnings. GiantSnowman 09:20, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Well, that's what I try to avoid. It seems a pity to start blocking without trying at least one more time if another approach might help. Getting his attention and cooperation without needing to block is better, and perhaps if he notices that multiple people have the same concerns, he will change his approach. If not, then blocking still remains as an option of course. Fram (talk) 11:32, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

I had experience with one editor, who was constantly adding unreferenced material to BLPs - the info not controversial and later verified to be true, but it was still a problem. Over a period of months numerous users tried to communicate with the editor, using templated and personal messages. Nothing got through to him. Then one day enough was enough and he was blocked (I can't recall if I blocked him or another Admin) but it worked - it made him realise the seriousness of the situation, and now he communicates and adds references. GiantSnowman 11:43, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, that's why I don't rule out blocking as a last resort. But blocking is harsh, and I wouldn't want a productive editor with some minor problems leaving over being blocked without trying more gentle approaches first. A block may improve his interactions, but it may also piss him off and make him leave Wikipedia. Fram (talk) 11:47, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Seems like an admin (User:Dennis Brown?) once had good results by plastering their talk page with a ridiculously *huge* stopsign to get their attention. --69.95.203.191 (talk) 13:39, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

In what sense is a failure to add categories to an article disruptive? Disruptive of what? Eric Corbett 16:06, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Is s/he removing the {uncat} template once it is added? It strikes me as not actually disruptive or damaging for an editor to prefer to leave category work for others. Wikipedia is a collaborative, volunteer project, and we don't expect or demand any editor – new or not – to do all the work on articles. Looking at, e.g. Mercantile Bank Building (Jonesboro, Arkansas), I see a reasonable, competently-written, credibly-sourced one-paragraph stub about a historical building, about which we did not have an article before.

Presumably, other editors will arrive over time to expand the article with images, more information, additional sources...and category tags. To accuse Candleabracadabra of 'disruptive editing' and to suggest harrassing them with repeated nuisance templates as a valid solution – let alone suggest blocking someone who is quietly and competently producing good, constructive content – because s/he doesn't do category grunt work is ridiculous.

If you want an {uncat} template on every new article, write a bot to do it. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 16:01, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

TOAT, look at it this way instead - an editor is deliberately ignoring sound advice (which doesn't make for a collaborative project) and every single time they create a stub, other editors have to clean up after them by adding categories / tagging as uncat. That is disruptive. GiantSnowman 16:09, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Why do others need to 'clean up after them'? Genuine question, whats the actual downside to not having either a CAT/uncat? Only in death does duty end (talk) 16:14, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Hmmm ... please don't go through the dozens of stubs, articles, etc to see if I always added a CAT to it or you'll want to block me too! (✉→BWilkins←✎) 16:10, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

The fact that the "B" word has been mentioned in the context of an editor who doesn't dot every I and cross every T is troublesome indeed. The editor concerned may not give a shit about categories - so what? This issue doesn't even begin to touch the troublesome threshold. Leaky Caldron 16:14, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

WP:YFA - "Every article should be in one or more Wikipedia categories". GiantSnowman 16:15, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Are we really going with "Your first article" as grounds for a block now? C'mon, this is not a big deal. (Also, I can't remember if I've ever added cats to my paltry collection of articles; I rather doubt it.) Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 16:18, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

I can see how this is mildly irritating, and I see no problem with reaching out to find other editors to try a different approach, but this strikes me as absolutely not block-worthy. Where do we draw the line on this type of thing? Shall we block people for not providing images too? Or not adding infoboxes? Its irritating, but not a necessity, and not a blockable issue. Sergecross73 msg me 16:21, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

I would say categories are a necessity. For example, I create lots of articles; before doing so, I often check a category the new article will be placed in to ensure an article on the same subject does not already exist. That prevents wasting both my time (in creating a duplicate article) and that of others who have to clean up after me (delete/merge etc.) GiantSnowman 16:25, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

I try to add a few of the most obvious categories when I create articles too, I know what you mean in practice. That being said, I don't see a policy supporting their necessity. (I would think something more direct than WP:YFA would be needed to make that argument.) Sergecross73 msg me 16:50, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict)Suggesting that a highly productive editor should/could/might be/ blocked for not adding a category is so daft that those mooting the idea need to take a long hard look at themselves - and maybe add a few categories to the articles rather than honing their block button. Leaky Caldron 16:23, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Who has said this editor should be blocked? GiantSnowman 16:25, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Treat them as you would any other editor who continues with disruptive editing despite warnings. GiantSnowman 09:20, 12 June 2013 (UTC), from here. I mean, yes, you technically didn't use the word "block", but there's really no other way to interpret that; I mean, what else do we do with disruptive editors who've ignored warnings? Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 16:30, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Depends how long they've been around / how many friends they have made ;) GiantSnowman 16:32, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Clearly, this guy hasn't made enough friends, given that we're here, so yeah, lame block suggestions are lame. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 16:36, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

• The recent furore about category:American novelists indicated that the category system is quite dysfunctional. You can be castigated if you put someone in a category and now you can be threatened if you don't. "That's some catch, that Catch-22". Warden (talk) 16:38, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

• A gross and incorrect over-simplification of both the recent issue with categories, and this current thread. Kudos. GiantSnowman 16:40, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Other suggestions welcome - how do others suggest we proceed then? Saying "it's not an issue" is a cop-out, what you really mean is "it's not an issue for me cos I don't care / don't have to clean up the mess." GiantSnowman 16:44, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

I guess my (and perhaps others') point is: why is it considered a "mess" for an article to not be in a category? Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 16:48, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

I seriously cannot believe I am having to link administrators to Wikipedia:FAQ/Categorization. Brb, off to bang my head against my desk for 5 mins. GiantSnowman 16:53, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Well, no need to bang your head: you didn't need to link that page, as it didn't answer my question. Does it say in there that articles must have categories? I read it through (again) and don't see anything that says that. I guess the closest thing is the "What should I do if I see an article without any categories?" section, but that doesn't say anything about warning editors or anything like that. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 17:06, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

I don't think anyone's suggesting that we stop using categories or anything. Just that it's not that big of a deal when they're not there. Its not a life and death, BLP type issue. Either it will be fixed eventually by random editors, or it won't...which has no repercussions beyond not being categorized. Sergecross73 msg me 17:09, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Writing an otherwise fine article and opting to let other people categorize it is perfectly acceptable, and is in no way disruptive. To even think of blocking an editor for leaving categorization for others is way out of line. 28bytes (talk) 17:13, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

I'd like to point out that there is something worse than an article without categories: an article with bad categories. RJFJR (talk) 17:17, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

I have some sympathy for the notion that an editor who doesn't do everything, and expects others to clean up can be infuriating in some cases. However, the cases I'm thinking of are editors who contribute little more than a title and a sentence just barely asserting notability. It may take more work from editors to check it out, search to see if there are references to support the notability than it might for editors to start from scratch without the tiny stub. While the editor may well have been contributing with such a start in 2001, it is 2013, and the world is different.

That said, I see a gulf between that example and the contributions of this editor. I do not know why the editor does not add categories. I happen to think our category system is quite poor, and hate to use it. I can easily believe that some editor may feel more strongly and refuse to use it. If it is done as a form of protest, I'm sorely tempted to join.

Are articles better when they have categories? Sure I can accept that. I don't object to the YFA advice that articles should have categories, but there is a difference between stating the goals for articles and stating the minimum acceptable standards for an editor's contribution to an article. I think articles ought to be spelled correctly. That doesn't mean I support a block for editors who make a spelling mistake. I do not view an editor who makes a spelling mistake as disruptive. Articles ought to have proper grammar. Editors who fail should not be termed "disruptive".

The editor has been asked to add cats, and has failed to explain why they do not. Time to shrug and move on. --SPhilbrick(Talk) 17:37, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

I absolutely agree. The barrier for entry is high enough without adding more mandates to editors wanting to create an article - no need to make it more complex. There are lots of editors willing to spend the 5 seconds it takes to use HotCat and add appropriate categories. Why hassle this editor? UltraExactZZ ^Said ~ Did 18:37, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

I was going to write something but SPhilbrick already wrote it. This editor just seems uninterested in adding categories or talking about categories. I don't find our current implementation of categories very good or useful either. I was wondering whether this editor was disruptively uncommunicative in general and that does not seem to be the case: I took a swing through the editor's edit count and history of using Talk pages; the editor seems to use Talk pages less frequently than many others but by no means never, and the Talk page contribs made are perfectly suitable. I have seen where administrator intervention is needed in cases of a disruptive editor who won't respond to requests to cut it out, but that doesn't seem to apply here. "Shrug and move on" seems about right. Zad68 19:19, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

To me, the best situation is a bot (or software feature) that would automatically mark an uncategorised page as uncategorised. Uncategorised pages that aren't marked as such are problems because we can't find them easily; having them marked automatically would remove the problems caused by this editor's unwillingness to mark them as uncategorised. Nyttend (talk) 00:38, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

How about Special:UncategorizedPages? DMacks (talk) 07:13, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

The most problematic factor for me (and the one which caused me to start this thread) is the unresponsiveness of this editor. If someone comes to your talk page with genuine concerns about your editing, the least you can do is reply. If he had explained why he doesn't want to add categories, that might have been sufficient. Like I indicated, simply adding the "uncat" tag if he is for some reason not comfortable adding a cat is also acceptable. But simply always ignoring a guideline (Wikipedia:Categorization: "Every Wikipedia page should belong to at least one category.") and refusing to discuss this is not really the way that things are supposed to happen here. The whole blockworthy/not blockworthy discussion is a distraction (and I note that we have blocked people over refusing to sign their posts, which doesn't even affect the mainspace). Fram (talk) 07:07, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

I think reaching out to the editor on their talk page, as you did, was a perfectly reasonable thing to do, and it certainly would have been polite of them to reply, but if they don't want to discuss it, it doesn't strike me as something we ought to (try to) force them to. There are editors who spend most if not all of their Wikipedia time categorizing things; it stands to reason that there would be some editors with no interest in categorization whatsoever, and it seems that we have found one such editor. 28bytes (talk) 07:21, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Fair enough. Fram (talk) 07:26, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

(EC)I may have missed it in the above, and the links to the category help pages are not really helpful on this, what is the disruptive or negative aspect of not having a category. I have seen lots of reasons why it is helpful to have one, but not a reason why it matters if it does not. Apart from a vague 'it might be difficult to find the article'. I can count on one hand the number of times I have used the category system to 'find' an article. Thats what search is for. Only in death does duty end (talk) 07:27, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

For me, categories are useful to find related articles, both as a reader and as an editor (for cleanup and maintenance reasons); I have found quite a few hoaxes and duplicate articles thanks to categories. While lists have their use as well, categories get "automatically" maintained (i.e., just add the cat to the page and it appears in the category: delete the article and it is gone, and so on; with lists, you have more extra work (but the possibility for extra information as well)). For readers, they are a way to find articles they didn't know existed. Without categories, I probably would never have found André Van De Werve De Vorsselaer, and noticed that it is badly capitalized. Thanks to Category:Flemish artists, I just came across the oddly named Hermann Naiwinx. With some research, I found another article at the more plausible title Herman Naiwincx. Duplicates? I need to look a bit further to be sure, but I would probably not have found them without categories. Fram (talk) 08:48, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

One might also consider editors, such as purely copy editors like myself, who don't edit within any particular area in WP and as such categories are largely ignored anyway. Blackmane (talk) 09:13, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Imagine an editor creating a few hundred articles without standard wiki layout, e.g. not using our section header system but using "bold" or "big" tags to create section headers. You can still read the articles, you won't get a TOC but not everyone cares for a TOC anyway. Would you allow that editor to continue doing this, even after multiple requests to use section headers instead? It is not because categories (or section headers, or...) are not needed for some groups of editors that we should ignore editors who consistenly refuse to apply them. Fram (talk) 12:12, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Broken templates, infoboxes, extra Big tags, and the like... all of those affect the ability of readers to actually get information out of an article. Categories, or a lack thereof, do not. The issues are separate. I keep having the mental image of one of us standing behind this editor with a riding crop, smacking their hand whenever they create an article without a category. And that bothers me. Half of our cleanup tasks are sorting out what less experienced editors did - and it has always been thus. There is no easier way to tell this editor to go fuck off and leave than to block him/her for not doing something completely optional. UltraExactZZ ^Said ~ Did 12:31, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

• The introduction of the visual editor, which is happening soon, seems likely to result in many new articles which will lack advanced features because the editor does not support them. In my experience, it takes a long time to master these and some may never do it. What Wikipedia needs most is editors who can write good encyclopedic prose as we have plenty of gnomes and techies who like tinkering with templates. It takes all sorts... Warden (talk) 12:49, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

"Less experienced editors": we are talking about an editor with 2 years + experience, having created hundreds of articles, not some clueless newbie. And it is not supposed to be "completely optional", it is part of our guidelines that every article should have at least one category. And contrary to what you claim, the lack of categories makes it much harder for people to "find" articles, so it is also affecting "the ability of readers to actually get information out of" the encyclopedia as a whole (and much more so than e.g. "big" tags). The search function is nice if you know the exact article: categories are better if you want all articles around a certain topic or with a certain common characteristic. Without a catedgory, could you easily tell which articles we had on Category:Assassinated Belgian politicians? Fram (talk) 13:00, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

That might be true if categories were searchable in an obvious way, but they're not. Try typing "country houses in Greater Manchester" into the search box for instance and see what you get. Eric Corbett 13:13, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

(ec) ^This. Now, leaving a new article permanently without categories would be a concern, granted. But creating such an article does not mean that it disappears into the hinterlands of Category:Articles lacking categories. Even if it's a true orphan, with no links in and out, it'll show up on the new pages list, it'll be tagged (maybe by bot) as an orphan or as lacking categories or whatever, and someone will come by and add categories. And then life goes on. I seem to recall something about there not being a deadline - why do we need THIS editor to put categories on their new articles RIGHT THEN? UltraExactZZ ^Said ~ Did 13:17, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

With very little effort (putting "uncat" at the bottom of the page), he would make life easier for others. Apparently that's too much to ask though. Fram (talk) 13:30, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

How can Category:Articles lacking categories possibly be non-empty? The inclusion of an article in that category would disqualify it from being in the category. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 13:22, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Honestly didn't think about it. If it existed, I guess it'd be hidden anyway. Oh, I've gone cross-eyed. UltraExactZZ ^Said ~ Did 18:21, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

(ec)I get, as the first result, Category:Country houses in Greater Manchester, so for me this works as expected. What do you get? Fram (talk) 13:20, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

I get the message "You may create the page "Country houses in greater manchester", but consider checking the search results below to see whether the topic is already covered", and the first entry in the list below is "North West England (redirect from Manchester Liverpool Polynuclear Metropolitan Area). Eric Corbett 13:28, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

"Special:Preferences: Search in all namespaces" (or search in articles and categories) is your friend. Fram (talk) 13:32, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

It may or may not be my friend, but I'm a logged in user, unlike the overwhelming majority of our readers. Eric Corbett 13:44, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

..., in fairness to Eric, and only good if you know that's what you can do. I didn't, and I've been here far too long. GiantSnowman 13:51, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

(ec)True. Even so, the text of the category (as written on the article) is included in the search, so they still show up in the search, but not as prominent. I agree that the current search is far from perfect, and wonder why categories aren't included in the default search. Not having categories won't improve this of course. And using the search function is only one possibility: going from an article to similar other ones is also made possible by categories, once you scroll to the bottom of the page at least. Again, not optimal. Oh, and if you do this search, no matter your preferences, the category will appear first (at least it does for me). But changing it to e.g. this one ruins that effect again... Fram (talk) 13:56, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict)Why? Why do we need to imagine anything other than the specific issue you have brought to attention? Just close the thread. The editor deserves and requires no action to be taken by Admins. in respect of the specific concern about categories. There is no support for Admins to intervene in this case and anything else you bring up is irrelevant. Leaky Caldron 12:50, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

My "imagine" response was a reply to Blackmane, which seemed to imply "I don't care about categories, so ..." Apparently a lot of people don't care about categories and don't see their purpose, their potential uses, which is rather disheartening. Fram (talk) 13:00, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

But categories as currently implemented are virtually useless. Eric Corbett 13:13, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Why? They could be a lot better (category intersection for one should be a standard search function), but that's a far cry from "virtually useless". Fram (talk) 13:20, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Fair enough. Completely useless to the average reader then. Eric Corbett 13:30, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

;-) Fram (talk) 13:32, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

In reply to Fram: don't get me wrong, it's not an "I don't care about them". As someone who hasn't spent anytime on categories, I solely focus on improving article text when I pick an article. I take it on good faith that the copyedit requester knows where the article belongs and will stick it in the right place. As a reader, I certainly do make use of categories when I find a branch of articles I find interesting. The brevity of my comment certainly could be seen in the way you suggested. Blackmane (talk) 13:08, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

Unresponsive user 2

Once bitten, twice shy etc. I have an editor whose signature violates WP:SIGLINK (i.e. no links to their user and/or talk page) and they are not responding to my requests. What can I do in this situation? GiantSnowman 13:11, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Try to persuade them of the benefits of such links? Eric Corbett 13:18, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

We've dealt with this before, recently, but I don't know what we did. This seems to be a more serious concern than the one above. UltraExactZZ ^Said ~ Did 13:20, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Why? This one has zero impact on the readers of the encyclopedia or on its content. It only impacts editors. We are not more important than the actual encyclopedia surely? Fram (talk) 13:34, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

This one's easy - you've pointed it out, they're unresponsive, it IS policy. We've done it before. You can either a) name them and shame them here at AN or ANI until they actually follow the policy, or get blocked, or b) block them as per jurisprudence until their sig is policy-compliant (✉→BWilkins←✎) 13:50, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

I have notified Banhtrung1 (talk · contribs). GiantSnowman 14:39, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Nope, WP:SIGLINK is a guideline, not policy, just like Wikipedia:Categorization is a guideline. But categorization applies to the mainspace, siglink only to talk pages and discussion pages. Yet you advocate blocking for this one, and not for the categorization one? Fram (talk) 13:59, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

For the categorization thing, you're advocating pestering or blocking of an editor who doesn't add a maintenance tag to every article he creates. It's something that can be done just as quickly, and probably more easily, by whichever Twinkle-enabled new-page-patroller shows up to slap on their feel-good assortment of likely-to-be-ignored-for-months tags. Candleabracadabra wants to contribute to content development, but doesn't have an interest in article indexing—and that's fine. We don't compel editors to participate against their will in all aspects of Wikipedia's development. Candleabracadabra's articles are, arguably, incomplete without category tags, but they're not broken. He's doing nothing to prevent or obstruct the addition of categories or maintenance tags (or additional content, or navboxes, or infoboxes, or references...) by editors who come after him. We don't demand that he place the {uncategorized} template for the same reason that we don't insist that article creators put {copy edit} on their new efforts.

For the signature issue, an editor has to take a conscious, deliberate, positive step to change their signature from the default. Changing one's signature from the default to something that doesn't link to one's user or talk page is an active step. It takes something that is working, and turns it into something that is broken. While it generally isn't the intent of the editor to make themselves more difficult to reach (usually they're just trying to make their signature 'pretty') it is the effect of their actions. Further, it is something that can be remedied quickly and easily and permanently with a single change. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 14:34, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

There are some very basic community norms that shouldn't be hard to adhere to, one of which is either banging out four tildes or clicking the sig icon in the toolbar above. We've dealt with recalcitrant editors in the past with threats of blocks or actual blocks. Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Docu comes to mind. Tarc (talk) 14:36, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

I've stayed out of this pair of discussions because I wasn't sure what to say, but Tenofalltrades has convinced me; we really should take some sort of action regarding users who change their signatures unhelpfully, but I agree that it would be over the top to sanction Candelabra here. Look at my signature; it's only changed once since I registered in 2006, and that was because the default was changed from <User, timestamp> to <User (talk), timestamp> some years ago. Nyttend (talk) 17:18, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Signature linking is more important than adding categories because Wikipedia is a collaborative project, and that is a fundamental way in which we communicate with one another. Categories, on the other hand, are just a supplement to the really important things, i.e. properly sourced, neutrally worded, encyclopaedic content. I see categories in the same way as pictures or "see also" sections...a nice addition to any article, but not really a deal breaker as long as the content is up to standard. Ditch ∝ 17:57, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

The editor still has not changed their signature, barring any outcry here I intend to indef them if they do not change it, obviously with the caveat that they will be unblocked once they have changed. GiantSnowman 09:02, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

Hey, threats do work (sometimes...) GiantSnowman 09:14, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

Not sure that 'threats' were what produced the effect, nor that they were necessary. I mean, you slapped the guy's talk page with four messages in six hours, the last of which was announcing that you were taking the matter to this noticeboard. Then you hit him with a 'final warning' less than 24 hours later.

Yes, he needed to fix his signature; you'll get no argument from me on that. But absent any indication that the guy was acting in bad faith or disputing the requirement – or even that he was deliberately ignoring your messages (the new notifications system is a lot less conspicuous than the old) – it is far from clear that the level of...enthusiastic urgency...with which you sought his compliance was required or likely to helpful in the long run.

Instead of a spate of terse, acronym and alphabet-soup laden single-sentence demands, it would have been no more work – and much better 'people skills' – to spend a little bit of time crafting one clear, polite, request that contained a few words of explanation. (Particularly given that English does not appear to be this editor's first language.) As admins, we have a duty to educate and communicate, not merely to threaten and enforce. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 15:27, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Edit disputes at Microsoft Office 365

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

There appears to be a significant edit dispute at this page. One editor took it to Wikipedia:Administrator intervention against vandalism. Then they took the dispute to my talk page at User_talk:Bearian#Re:_Office_365. Can somebody help?! Bearian (talk) 17:27, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

While it seems to have become a bit more stable now (there have been discussions on the edit warring noticeboard, and there haven't been any further reverts), I'm still a bit concerned about how things will be going forward. But still, I stand by my belief that vandalism covers things like saying The Annoying Orange is the president of the United Kingdom, and not good-faith efforts at improving an article. ViperSnake151  Talk  20:34, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

This is already being addressed at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring#User:Dogmaticeclectic reported by User:ViperSnake151 (Result: ), so I suggest that this section be closed immediately. Dogmaticeclectic (talk) 20:35, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

A Talking Cat!?!

Resolved

I wish to be allowed to edit the entry for the film A Talking Cat!?! I created the entry for The Room (film) and therefore should be considered qualified. The A Talking Cat!?! entry is currently locked for administrators, so I am pleading to be allowed to begin building this entry. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jcoll (talk • contribs) 08:00, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

The above editor posted this request earlier but someone deleted it from the noticeboard. I think Jcoll is referring to this [2] which does instruct him to come to the Administrators Noticeboard with such a request. Whether or not the request is viable is another matter. Taroaldo ✉ 08:27, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

• This may be the movie Jcoll is referring to [3] Taroaldo ✉ 08:30, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

• I've created the page (the title was being blocked by the blacklist). Jcoll can now add some content to it. Hut 8.5 08:57, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

• What was the problem? Perhaps the !?! sequence? Nyttend (talk) 12:18, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

• That'd be my guess - it wasn't protected directly or SALTed as a result of shenanigans. UltraExactZZ ^Said ~ Did 12:33, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

• Alright. I've left a note at Jcoll's talk page about the article being ready for editing. De728631 (talk) 13:21, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Rangeblock help

I'm at work and don't have enough time to figure out exactly how rangeblocks work... and I'd rather avoid the possible consequences of a half-assed action. Please check out the IPs I keep on blocking of a relentlessly evading socker and apply whatever rangeblock proves necessary. Thanks! :) ·Salvidrim!· ✉ 18:06, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

SPP'ed my talk page because I don't have time to deal with this crap, but it doesn't mean he'll stop. :) ·Salvidrim!· ✉ 18:21, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

(Non-administrator comment)It doesn't look like they can all be encompassed in a single rangeblock, and it seems that they aren't closely-grouped enough for a set of separate rangeblocks (I only see at most 2 per /16).--Jasper Deng (talk) 18:51, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

So in short, not much can be done. Jeeez... :) ·Salvidrim!· ✉ 18:55, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

As I have explained at greater length on my talk page (not knowing that this thread was here), it is sometimes possible to win a war of attrition against users like this by making lots of little range blocks, but it takes a hell of a lot of work, and isn't guaranteed to work, so I'm afraid it largely comes down to a game of whackamole, blocking individual IP addresses or at best very small ranges. JamesBWatson (talk) 20:37, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Yea, we've been whack-a-moling all day. I even SPP'ed my talk page because I didn't have time to deal with it all. But hey, we'll live. :) ·Salvidrim!· ✉ 20:46, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

user:Chauahuasachca

Chauahuasachca (talk · contribs) recent page moves have separated talk pages from their subject pages. So this needs administrators to repair them, as some of the talk pages have active discussions, and some of the destinations have generated new discussions, making a simple talk page move impossible. A histmerge and restore of older discussions would then be necessary. -- 65.94.79.6 (talk) 03:47, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

These articles were created by IPs without regarding the criterias for page names. I don't understand what you want now.--Chauahuasachca (talk) 11:01, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

Would you like to prove that statement? IP's have not been able to create live articles in years, and once ONE SINGLE PERSON complains about your page moves, you MUST stop and use the WP:RM process. What's happened now are cockups that only admns can fix ... well done! (✉→BWilkins←✎) 11:07, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

The IP here is complaining about my "forgettings" to move the talk page also.--Chauahuasachca (talk) 11:09, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

Chauahuasachca, you've been previously requested to show more care with page moves. At some point the difference between carelessness and willful disruption becomes moot. Tiderolls 14:20, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

Huh? First,were the articles created by unregistered users without regard for the criteria for page names? If so, how did that happen? A bug? Second, when the article pages were moved/renamed, did the editor override the default to move the talk page along with the article page? The default on page moves is to move the talk page with the article page. If the default was overridden, why? Robert McClenon (talk) 14:53, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

None of the pages I checked (see below) were created by unregistered users; I don't know what he's talking about. That being said, there are two ways for it to happen: either they get created through WP:AFC, or they're old pages that were created before page creation was restricted to registered users. Nyttend (talk) 15:54, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

Yes, yes, very annoying and disruptive and so on. Could we perhaps bitch about it and fix the pages? Kafziel ^{Complaint Department: Please take a number} 15:11, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

I've left Chauahuasachca a final warning — moving tons of pages without their talk pages is quite disruptive when the new titles have no talk pages that would require administrative assistance, and it's made worse because you actively have to prevent the software from moving the talk page. I've also checked his entire move log for the past six months and moved all the talk pages that were still at the old titles. Nyttend (talk) 15:29, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

You beat me to the final warning! I was busy moving pages myself. Thanks for the hand. Kafziel ^{Complaint Department: Please take a number} 15:39, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

• Seeing as these often appear to be non-consensus moves to beging with, a topic ban from ANY page move - being forced to use RM - was more along my lines of thinking (✉→BWilkins←✎) 15:57, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

Discussion disruption

During a discussion at Talk:Power factor User:212.183.140.50 broke a four month edit silence to post personal attacks regarding sock puppetry of User:Wtshymanski and myself User:174.118.142.187 . I reverted the edits as I understand personal attacks on article talk pages are disruptive and allowed to be removed without comment to cool the situation and not aggravate it. My revert was re-instated by User:DieSwartzPunkt and further personal attacks made to agree with the IP. A following notice was placed on my talk page that I was not allowed to change another editor's comments by User:DieSwartzPunkt.[[4]]

Please note that this behavior has been seen for quite some time where discussions in articles with User:DieSwartzPunkt are disrupted by sudden participation from same geolocated IP editors, with very few or no edits history, to support discussions in his favour. This was previously pointed out and a warning to behave himself was issued by Dennis Brown[[5]]. He retorted he forgot to log in after a party when he installed a phoney block on my talk page.[[6]] After this same repeated sequence of events I have been observing and documenting some of this [[7]]. The tag team behavior between him and User:I B Wright is very suspicious, perhaps as in a mentor relationship. Note, both editors suddenly awoke from days of editing silence in a previous attempt to stop my compilation of strange IP edits involved with supporting attacks of User:Wtshymanski.[[8]] Please note the AGF tone used.

<Please note the sequence format disruption injected below is not my text but mine continues below. DieSwartzPunkt has been warned previously for this tactic to disrupt the flow of conversation but still does it on a regular basis.>

Well Mr Wright apparently spotted it and made me aware of it on my talk page, so maybe that is why I responded shortly after he spotted it.

As for the IP edits where we agree, 174.118.142.187 has not documanted any. In fact there are a good number, but that is not surprising if we edit with apparently similar interests - sometimes we agree, sometimes we don't. There are probably just as many edits where we disagree. If 174.118.142.187 cares to post his 'agreements' I will post the disagreements. This is just an attempt to obfuscate the issue. DieSwartzPunkt (talk) 17:44, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

This has become tiring to myself and Wtshymanski, even though the latter doesn't usually want to become involved in these politics and remains quiet.

I would like to see this IP blocked (check edit history for a long list of warnings) as a minimum and User:DieswartzPunkt receive a corrective action for this repeated behavior as a lesson to make a better environment in the future. I would also like the attack comments removed from the talk page where I attempted to remove his ad hominem attacks that started this ANI report. [[9]]. (current collapsed) They serve no purpose to forward the discussion, there.

A possible solution may be an interaction ban for the two (possibly three or four I have no problem with Wtshymanski's edit technique, although he's not talkative) of us where none of us could edit an article or talk page that has been previously edited by another editor involved in the last two years. 500 edits would be an easier check for each of us to follow. This would have to agreed upon by DieSwartzPunkt or forced by admin to work. This long term grudge seems to accelerating since I made a suggestion regarding his Wtshymanski attack page User talk:DieSwartzPunkt/WTS and his own personal comments.[[10]] in an attempt to help him. Thank you. 174.118.142.187 (talk) 16:10, 14 June 2013 (UTC) Updated and typos 174.118.142.187 (talk) 01:16, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I have accused Wtshymanski and 174.118.142.187 of Sockpuppetry and have opened a sockpuppetry investigation, so you cann assume that this is a 'tit for tat' response. You may also care to check 174.118.142.187's history of making ANI complaints where he frequently raises frivolous complaints against any editor who opposes him (none have ever been upheld). He is also attempting to 'compile' evidence against other editors based on faulty grounds at User talk:174.118.142.187/Sandbox2 presumably as part of his frivolous complaint campaign. DieSwartzPunkt (talk) 16:30, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

I've deleted the "evidence" page linked to above per WP:ATTACK; lists of enemies and the like are not appropriate even in the user namespace. Aside from that, I'd say the sockpuppet investigation can determine the next step. If 174.118.142.187 wants to open a sock investigation of his own, he is free to do so. Kafziel ^{Complaint Department: Please take a number} 16:43, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

Will you also be deleting a similar page[[11]] with added personal attacks on User:Wtshymanski existing since November 2012? Thank you. 174.118.142.187 (talk) 17:01, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

Done. Kafziel ^{Complaint Department: Please take a number} 17:04, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

When did it become unacceptable to compile 'Request for Comments' against tendentious editors? Naturally Wtshymanski has wanted this one deleted and his sock has persuaded you to do so.

August 21, 2007. Kafziel ^{Complaint Department: Please take a number} 19:57, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

You want the work in progress RfC against you deleted. RfCs are legitimate tools to bring about discussion and concensus about tendentious editors, but we can understand why you (Wtshymanski) would want it deleted. More evidence. DieSwartzPunkt (talk) 17:05, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

I was debating whether to raise this as a new issue but: 174.118.142.187 has now taken to unacceptable abuse where he has now accused me of slander. Though he accuses me of having a 'slander page' it is not clear where this is meant to be. [12]. Also the allegation above where multiple allegation of being hoodlums is being made. This is completely unacceptable and must result in a block. DieSwartzPunkt (talk) 16:54, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

I would like to comment on the "This has become tiring to myself and Wtshymanski" phrase above. I Call Shenanigans. I am no fan of Wtshymanski and his disruption of our Engineering articles, but letting some IP editor speak for him goes against all of Wtshymanski's previous behavior. So does any accusation of sockpuppetry against Wtshymanski, BTW. That just isn't him. --Guy Macon (talk) 17:15, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

While you are, of course, entitled to your opinion, you and I both know that Wtshymanski will change his tack when the tide turns against him. With his recent block for repeated tendentious editing and that the admins are, at last, starting to take note (ref: User:Thumperward's remarks when he was blocked), I would suggest that this is his latest change of tack. How do you explain the stack of coincidences laid out in the SPI? DieSwartzPunkt (talk) 17:35, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

Reply is at SPI. --Guy Macon (talk) 20:43, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

Terminix

Could someone take a look at the above article please, the legal stuff has me a bit concerned--Jac16888 ^Talk 18:53, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

I have reverted the most recently added legal stuff - looks like an advert/addition by the law firm involved.--ukexpat (talk) 19:01, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

RfC on PC Level 2

We need closers for the big RfC on Pending Changes Level 2. Discussion is welcome at Wikipedia:Pending changes/Request for Comment 2013#Looking for closers. - Dank (push to talk) 19:26, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

I'm offering my services.—cyberpower ^Chat_Online 19:51, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

deadmau5 move review discussion

Hello, since 7 days has elapsed on this move review, could an admin who knows how to deal with stuff like this please close it? Thanks! Insulam Simia (^talk/_contribs) 20:21, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

Undiscussed page moves

User Shirenai (talk) moved several articles and then prevented me from moving them back by editing the redirects.

Please revert these changes until there is a discussion about the titles.

1. BABYMETAL was moved to BabyMetal.
2. Up Up Girls (kakko Kari) was moved to Up Up Girls (Kakko Kari)

Since the titles are unconventinal, I will explain.

1. BABYMETAL
   As far as I know, the group has not been written about in reliable American sources.
   Reliable Japanese English-language sources like Kawaii Girl Japan (example) and Barks (example) write "BABYMETAL".
   Big Japanese online shops write "BABY METAL" (CD Japan) or "BABYMETAL" (HMV).
   Since MOS:TM says: "CamelCase may be used where it reflects general usage", while "BabyMetal" is truly unseen before, it is certainly not how the page should be named.
2. Up Up Girls (kakko Kari)
   This is very tricky, but here the group wrote "UP UP GIRLS kakko KARI". The trick is that the name of the group is a joke and the word "kakko" is not written (in the original Jspanese title of the group). It is pronounced, but not written.

But I'm just asking to revert the undiscussed changes. Actually, I attempted to discuss it on Shirenai's talk page, but the editor continued to move pages back to the titles they liked. --Moscow Connection (talk) 00:51, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

By the way, in the case of Up Up Girls, at the time I saw Shirenai revert me I was writing a message to their talk page about why "kakko" should not be capitalized. I didn't expect the editor would object. --Moscow Connection (talk) 01:07, 16 June 2013 (UTC)