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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 85.13.238.124 (talk) at 14:18, 16 January 2016 (→‎Proposal to community ban the "Best known for IP"). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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      Other areas tracking old discussions

      Administrative discussions

      ANI thread concerning Yasuke

      (Initiated 45 days ago on 2 July 2024) Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1162 § Talk: Yasuke has on-going issues has continued to grow, including significant portions of content discussion (especially since Talk:Yasuke was ec-protected) and accusations of BLP violations, among other problems. Could probably be handled one sub-discussion at a time. --JBL (talk) 17:50, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Proposal: Topic ban from GENSEX

      (Initiated 4 days ago on 13 August 2024) I'm not seeing any comments in two days and I'm reading clear community consensus for a TBAN. Admin close required. TarnishedPathtalk 14:39, 17 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      Place new administrative discussions above this line using a level 3 heading

      Requests for comment

      RFA2024, Phase II discussions

      Hi! Closers are requested for the following three discussion:

      Many thanks in advance! theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 04:27, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

       Doing... reminder of civility norms. voorts (talk/contributions) 00:24, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
       Partly done reminder of civility norms. voorts (talk/contributions) 00:40, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      If re-requesting closure at WP:AN isn't necessary, then how about different various closers for cerain section(s)? I don't mind one or two closers for one part or another or more. --George Ho (talk) 17:39, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      During Phase I of RFA2024, we had ended up having multiple closers for different RFCs, even the non-obvious ones. I think different people closing subparts of this should be acceptable Soni (talk) 09:22, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      Bumping this as an important discussion very much in need of and very much overdue for a formal closure. Tazerdadog (talk) 18:40, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
       Doing... designated RfA monitors (at least in part). voorts (talk/contributions) 16:40, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
       Partly done designated RfA monitors. voorts (talk/contributions) 17:31, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      For recall, @Sirdog: had attempted a close of one section, and then self-reverted. Just in case a future closer finds this helpful. Soni (talk) 07:17, 11 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      Thank you for the ping. For what it's worth, I think that close was an accurate assessment of that single section's consensus, so hopefully I make someone's day easier down the line. Happy to answer questions from any editor about it. —Sirdog (talk) 07:38, 11 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      I agree. I also think closing some sections at a time is pretty acceptable, especially given we have only been waiting 2+ months for them. I also have strong opinions on 'involved experienced editors' narrowing down a closer's scope just because they speak strongly enough on how they think it should be closed. But I am Capital-I involved too, so shall wait until someone takes these up. Soni (talk) 08:53, 11 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      I tend to agree. Not many people agreed with the concerns expressed on article talk about closing section by section. If a closer can't find consensus because the discussion is FUBAR, they can make that determination. voorts (talk/contributions) 12:50, 11 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 444#RFC: The Telegraph on trans issues

      (Initiated 75 days ago on 3 June 2024) Initial close has been overturned at review. A new close is required. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 16:36, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      Talk:Gaza genocide#RfC on the inclusion on the BU Today article in the lede

      (Initiated 56 days ago on 22 June 2024) nableezy - 17:53, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      Titles of European monarchs

      (Initiated 55 days ago on 22 June 2024) - I thank the Wikipedia community for being so willing to discuss this topic very extensively. Because 30 days have passed and requested moves in this topic area are already being opened (For reference, a diff of most recent edit to the conversation in question), I would encourage an uninvolved editor to determine if this discussion is ready for closure. AndrewPeterT (talk) (contribs) 22:34, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      (Also, apologies if I have done something incorrectly. This is my first time filing such a request.) AndrewPeterT (talk) (contribs) 22:34, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      There is ongoing discussion there as to whether a closer for that discussion is necessary or desirable. I would suggest to wait and see how that plays out.--Wehwalt (talk) 14:58, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      This is dragging on ad nauseam. I suggest an admin closes this, possibly with the conclusion that there is no consensus to change. PatGallacher (talk) 17:50, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      Talk:Anti-Defamation League#RfC: Wikipedia reliability section

      (Initiated 47 days ago on 30 June 2024) - Note: Part of the article and talk page are considered to be a contentious topic, including this RfC. --Super Goku V (talk) 10:28, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 447#Reliability_of_Thomas_Lockley

      (Initiated 45 days ago on 2 July 2024) - The original topic (Lockley's book, "African Samurai: The True Story of Yasuke, a Legendary Black Warrior in Feudal Japan") has not been the focus of discussion since the first few days of the RFC when it seemed to reach a concensus. The book in question is no longer cited by the Yasuke page and has been replaced by several other sources of higher quality. Since then the subject of the RSN has shifted to an extension of Talk:Yasuke and has seen many SPA one post accounts hijack the discussion on the source to commit BLP violations towards Thomas Lockley almost exclusively citing Twitter. Given that the general discussion that was occuring has shifted back to [Talk:Yasuke] as well as the continued uptick in SPA's committing NOTHERE and BLP violations on the RSN, as well as the source in question is no longer being used - I think closure is reasonable. Relm (talk) 20:17, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      Talk:Hermann_Göring#Rfc_for_Herman_Göring's_Lede_Image_(2024)

      (Initiated 44 days ago on 4 July 2024) Discussion is ready to be closed. Nemov (talk) 01:09, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      Talk:Nikola Tesla/Nationality and ethnicity#Nikola_Tesla_birthplace_,_review_after_10_years

      (Initiated 43 days ago on 5 July 2024) This is a contentious issue, so I would like to ask for an uninvolved editor to properly close. Please have consideration to each argument and provide an explanation how each argument and source was considered. People have strong opinions on this issue so please take consideration if their statements and claims are accompanied by quotes from sources and whether WP guidelines are followed. We need to resolve this question based on sources and not opinions, since it was discussed multiple times over the years. Trimpops2 (talk) 23:46, 3 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]


      The present text in the article is ambiguous. The present sentence within the Military Frontier, in the Austrian Empire (present-day Croatia) can be interpreted in two ways, as can be seen from the discussion. One group of editors interpret this as "although today in Croatia, Tesla's birthplace was not related to Kingdom of Croatia at the time of his birth in the 19th century" and other group of editors are claiming that "at that time the area was a part of "Kingdom of Croatia". I hope that end consensus will resolve that ambiguity. Whatever the consensus will be, let's not have ambiguous text. The article should provide a clear answer to that question. Trimpops2 (talk) 16:16, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      Talk:La France Insoumise#RfC: How should the political position of La France Insoumise be described?

      (Initiated 40 days ago on 7 July 2024) Discussion has already died down and the 30 days have elapsed. Uninvolved closure is requested. Thanks a lot! Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 21:45, 6 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      @Chaotic Enby I was reviewing this for a close, but I wonder if reopening the RFC and reducing the number of options would help find a consensus. It seems like a consensus could be found between options A or D. Nemov (talk) 12:35, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      That could definitely work! Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 12:41, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      Talk:2024 United Kingdom general election#RfC: Inclusion of parties in the Infobox

      (Initiated 40 days ago on 8 July 2024). Ready for closing, last !vote was 12 July by looks of it. CNC (talk) 16:27, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      Wikipedia:Proposal to revise CSD R3

      (Initiated 39 days ago on 9 July 2024) Poster withdrew the RfC but due to the language used, I think a summary by an WP:UNINVOLVED editor would be preferable. Nickps (talk) 20:52, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Gaza_Health_Ministry_qualifier

      (Initiated 33 days ago on 15 July 2024) -sche (talk) 15:19, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      There have been only 5 !votes since end July (out of 50+) so this could be closed now. Selfstudier (talk) 10:23, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      Place new discussions concerning RfCs above this line using a level 3 heading

      Deletion discussions

      XFD backlog
      V May Jun Jul Aug Total
      CfD 0 0 0 37 37
      TfD 0 0 1 3 4
      MfD 0 0 1 0 1
      FfD 0 0 0 1 1
      RfD 0 0 16 21 37
      AfD 0 0 0 0 0

      Place new discussions concerning XfDs above this line using a level 3 heading

      Other types of closing requests

      Talk:There was no such thing as Palestinians#Merge to Golda Meir?

      (Initiated 261 days ago on 29 November 2023) Discussion started 29 November 2023. Last comment 25 July 2024. TarnishedPathtalk 00:34, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      Talk:Twitter_under_Elon_Musk#Requested_move_24_May_2024

      (Initiated 84 days ago on 24 May 2024) Originally closed 3 June 2024, relisted following move review on 17 June 2024 (34 days ago). Last comment was only 2 days ago, but comments have been trickling in pretty slowly for weeks. Likely requires a decently experienced closer. Dylnuge (Talk • Edits) 01:54, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)/Archive 194#Notifying_Wikiprojects_and_WP:CANVASS

      (Initiated 81 days ago on 28 May 2024) Latest comment: 3 days ago, 79 comments, 37 people in discussion. Closing statement may be helpful for future discussions. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:29, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

       Doing...— Frostly (talk) 22:35, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      @Frostly Are you still planning on doing this? Soni (talk) 16:57, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      Soni, yes - have drafted close and will post by the end of today. Thanks! — Frostly (talk) 17:56, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      I wanted to note that this is taking slightly longer than expected, but it is at the top of my priority and will be completed soon. — Frostly (talk) 05:14, 27 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      @Frostly Just checking, would you like someone else to help with this? Soni (talk) 07:31, 11 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      Archived. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. put'er there 13:32, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      Talk:You Like It Darker#Proposed merge of Finn (short story) into You Like It Darker

      (Initiated 79 days ago on 30 May 2024) Contentious merge discussion requiring uninvolved closer. voorts (talk/contributions) 01:35, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      Talk:2024 Nuseirat_rescue operation#Proposed_merge_of_Nuseirat_refugee_camp_massacre_into_2024_Nuseirat_rescue_operation

      (Initiated 69 days ago on 8 June 2024) Since much of the discussion centers on the title of the article rather than its content, the closer should also take into account the requested move immediately below on the talk page. Smyth (talk) 15:17, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      If the closer finds "no consensus", I have proposed this route in which a discussion on merger and RM can happen simultaneously to give clearer consensus.VR (Please ping on reply) 20:10, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      Talk:List of common misconceptions#Split proposal

      (Initiated 40 days ago on 8 July 2024) – Editors would feel more comfortable if an uninvolved closer provided a clear statement about whether a consensus to WP:SPLIT exists, and (if so) whether to split this list into two or three lists. WhatamIdoing (talk) 03:06, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      Place new discussions concerning other types of closing requests above this line using a level 3 heading

      Topic bans for Gamergate?

      Yes, the Gamergate controversy mess again. It is well known that there are SPAs and more-or-less SPAs operating there, of which ForbiddenRocky (talk · contribs) is a prominent one. All sorts of elaborate rules have been created, some apparently by ArbCom, but the net effect seems to be to stifle valid debate about the entire concept of the article, let alone its appearance. The fall-out has, of course, been massive and extends well beyond en-Wikipedia itself. At least anecdotally, there have been site bans here for off-wiki harassment relating to it.

      We've got to break this cycle before it subsumes a massive number of experienced contributors who could probably sort things out but, like me, tend to be discouraged by the sheer ferocity and tenacity of those who are far too closely attached to it. I propose that we start with ForbiddenRocky, who recently hatted a comment by me in the belief that it should be on some sort of subpage. Splitting things apart like this falls into the hands of those who want to control through wikilawyering. How many newbies would look at the subpage, or even realise it exists (I certainly didn't until recently). My comment discussed no editor in particular, specifically mentioned "both sides" and was a terse analysis of the problem that is at the heart of why the article is as it is. I subsequently added this.

      Yes, topic banning ForbiddenRocky purely on the basis of this one thing is ludicrous but I am becoming very frustrated with the pattern on that article and I am sure that other people could find other examples (I've seen loads but am not in a great state to look for them right now). It needs to be opened up and I think the easiest way to do that is to offload those who spend far too much time there for, apparently, very little gain - bearing in mind that the article seems to be as unstable now as it has ever been and that the same arguments keep arising week in, week out involving mostly the same people.

      I'm happy to voluntarily ban myself (I've said very little there anyway and don't think I've edited the article at all) if only we can find a way to break the deadlock. Even topic bans of, say, one month in duration would probably help if we could find some metric for application.

      Not sure where to post this - I do realise that it is not an isolated incident, hence here rather than at ANI. - Sitush (talk) 07:07, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      I had thought of something based on if an editor's contributions indicated > X% of total edits to this or related articles (which I think are mostly BLPs). However, the 30/500 rule in force might make that impractical - my brain is a bit fried at the moment and I can't work it out. - Sitush (talk) 07:32, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      You did two reverts of ForbiddenRocky, which is not permitted. You should have asked for help before the second revert. However I agree that you talk should not have been hatted. 08:28, 8 January 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Graeme Bartlett (talk • contribs)
      Isn't it on the talk page? That plays straight into the hands of the wikilawyers. Regardless, my main point here is not that specific incident but rather how to find a way out of the morass. Perhaps it needs some sort of revision to past ArbCom remedies - I really don't know because it isn't the sort of thing I'm usually involved with. - Sitush (talk) 08:37, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      As an editor of video game articles, this is one of those topics Id rather not get involved with under any circumstance. However, I am neutral on the matter and could provide a fresh perspective on the whole situation. → Call me Razr Nation 10:22, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      Dont do it. Also no doubt someone will claim you have a COI because you love gaming mice or other such nonsense ;) Gamergate is a conflict between a tiny subset of forum/reddit/chan gamers (and I mean *tiny* given the % of the population of the world who play electronic games), journalists and rent-an-activists. For the majority of the happily gaming population and the entirety of the games industry proper, it is a non-event. Best keep it that way. Let them argue amongst themselves and keep doing your thing. Only in death does duty end (talk) 10:30, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      I tend towards this sentiment but then I think, hey, if we keep brushing this under the carpet then the attrition will continue. It only takes a few experienced contributors to turn a mess round, provided they get a level playing field. Quite a few of the higher-profile caste articles were pretty much sorted out in this way and, yes, those too tended to be frequented by SPAs. - Sitush (talk) 12:54, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      786 edits to that talk page, which is over half their total number of edits. But they rank only #6 for most contributions on that talk page... Drmies (talk) 16:06, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      Only in Death hits the nail on the head. According to recent surveys around 178 million Americans are regular gamers (multiple hours per week). Average age of men being 35, women being 43. 99.9% of these people couldn't care less about GG and the only reason they'd even heard of it, if they have at all, is because of the abuse and harassment GG has heaped on women because that's all they're notable for. The article right now is a battleground of a tiny subset of vocal gamers fighting over something that's barely notable in the community that it concerns. If the article stuck to the actual notable events surrounding GG, that are mostly years old now, it would be a fifth of its size. Capeo (talk) 17:21, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      The claim that you discussed no editor would sound way more plausible if you hadn't responded to a comment of "I've put in an incredibly bold edit," by an editor you have repeatedly attacked as an SPA with, "The idea of SPAs making incredibly bold edits here doesn't surprise in the slightest, although of course they shouldn't be allowed within a mile of the article anyway." 107.72.99.29 (talk) 12:17, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      "They" is plural, ie: SPAs shouldn't be allowed within ..., etc. And this is the last time I respond to an anon in this thread. Anons in this topic area are in my opinion almost entirely people trying to avoid scrutiny. I see, by the way, that ForbiddenRocky has now activated the Wikibreak Enforcer. I suppose that is a start. - Sitush (talk) 12:50, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      Sitush - there's a bit of a pattern on that page of people turning up, claiming to be super-neutral and only concerned about article quality, then making the suggestion that we ignore usual source policies/block a bunch of users/include a bunch of stuff that goes against UNDUE/delete the article entirely. This pattern does not generally increase article quality and frequently leads to a suspicion that such users are not really all that neutral after all, I would avoid repeating it. Artw (talk) 16:20, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      There is certainly a pattern of people getting shouted down by entrenched contributors, quite a few of whom seem to contribute to little but that and related articles. That so many people have queried the quality and even the "sense" of it (ie: they read it and haven't got much clue what it is dealing with) suggests that new blood would be A Good Thing. Not mine, obviously. - Sitush (talk) 16:27, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      When editors show up to ask and question the neutrality and then get labeled as Gamergate supporters by entrenched editors simply because they are questioning the article's narrative, that is a problem. I note I have not looked at the page since September per my voluntary ban, but what Sitush is saying is what has been happening even before the ArbCom case and was the basis for it. Note that there needs to be a larger discussion on dealing with ongoing controversies and the methods of the media today and how they intersect with WP policies that GG is only one recent example of, as what I've seen happening across WP lately is the use of UNDUE and FRINGE as shotgun approaches to shut down any deviation from mainstream sources, encouraging the type of behavior Sitush describes. --MASEM (t) 16:44, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      • I don't beiieve this is the right approach to this discussion. This was an extremely contentious arbcom case, bringing it here when the community was already unable to handle the situation seems unlikely to produce the desired result. A filing it WP:AE or WP:ARCA seems like a better approach. Beeblebrox (talk) 16:19, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      • Perhaps. I did say that I wasn't sure where would be best. I don't think there is anything from the case that could be enforced, so I guess ARCA would be the better of those two options. - Sitush (talk) 16:27, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      I'm a bit late here, but I feel that the issue with the Gamergate article is that the current SPAs owning the space have an admitted ideological bent, and they see their positions as one of defending against an inevitable wave of trolls and harassers. Therefore every new face at the article is viewed with suspicion, and eventually treated as an enemy combatant which is just a continuance of the battleground behavior that landed the article at ArbCom in the first place. My suggestion from several months ago (supported somewhat by Gamaliel) was to just topic ban every editor who has ever contributed to the talk page or article space. Maintain the 30/500 ratio to keep out the trolls, and let the neutral, experienced editors take over. ColorOfSuffering (talk) 02:09, 12 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      Giant mug of NOPE We don't reward Trolls/Harassers/Sockpuppets efforts by topic banning those who are upholding the policies and procedures of Wikipedia. Don't like how the consensus stacks up, File an ArbEnforcement action and see if there is valid arguments for topic banning (though I doubt you'll find any support). Hasteur (talk) 02:51, 12 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      There is a difference between upholding and gaming. No-one will ever convince me that, for example, MarkBernstein should be allowed to continue editing there, bearing in mind the Twitter feeds, blogs etc to which he contributes his acerbic commentary in relation to the subject. Similarly for the SPAs (of all persuasions, not just specifically ForbiddenRocky). I am looking at filing something somewhere but still can't get my head round which is the most appropriate venue. - Sitush (talk) 03:29, 12 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      That the comment above has been condoned by administrators familiar with WP:NPA for hours is discreditable to the project At long last, have you all no shame? MarkBernstein (talk) 10:35, 12 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      I am sure their shame is in the same place yours is. Why dont you go blog about it. Only in death does duty end (talk) 08:19, 12 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      The aversion of some Wikipedians for those of us who write elsewhere is very strange, but also neither here nor there. MarkBernstein (talk) 10:35, 12 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      Could you clarify exactly where you see the personal attack in that? Do you object to your commentary being described as acerbic? Or is any discussion of whether your contributions to the article are a net positive, no matter how they are voiced, necessarily a personal attack? Or am I looking at the wrong comment? GoldenRing (talk) 11:20, 12 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      I am almost certainly one of the accounts that would be topic banned under any of Sitush's proposals, so make of that what you will. I think it is generally agreed that this is simply the wrong venue for the relief sought. As such, I think it wise to simply close this discussion and move on. Then again, what I think of as wisdom is not always correct. Dumuzid (talk) 14:08, 12 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      Standard offer request for Bazaan

      Hello,

      I am passing along a Standard offer unblock request from Bazaan (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log). This request was sent to UTRS. The user has requested that the content of the unblock request be forwarded to the noticeboard. The relevant content is as follows:

      I agree to another Standard Offer if necessary, although it would be the second time. I would like the content of my unblock request to be forwarded to the noticeboard. I promise to never repeat the behaviour which led to my initial block, and the subsequent indefinite block.

      Why do you believe you should be unblocked? It's been six months, please give me another chance. At least give me a rope.

      If you are unblocked, what articles do you intend to edit? Most South Asian, but wide ranging

      Why do you think there is a block currently affecting you? If you believe it's in error, tell us how. I purposefully brought a sock puppetry ban on my account. It's my fault. I have suffered enough, including tremendous personal attacks.

      Is there anything else you would like us to consider when reviewing your block? Plenty of accounts have been blocked in my name, although most aren't mine.

      The ones used by me are Bazaan, Rainmaker23, Uck22, JKhan20 and Merchant of Asia.

      The user has not received any additional blocks on the account and is therefore tentatively eligible for Standard Offer consideration. Thanks, Nakon 01:23, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      • There were issues concerning Bazaan and his or her socks other then sockpuppetry itself, which the editor doesn't mention. Search on "Bazaan" in the noticeboard files. I'd like to hear what the editor has to say about that behavior. BMK (talk) 01:52, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      • I've modified Bazaan's block to permit him to edit his talk page: if we're willing to consider unblocking someone, the situation isn't so bad that talk access should remain disabled, and it's easier if the user can post messages on his own talk page instead of relying on UTRS assistance. Nakon, would you mind sending Bazaan an email asking him to make further replies on his talk page? Nyttend (talk) 02:31, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
        I've sent User:Bazaan an email update regarding their talk page. Thanks, Nakon 02:34, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      • Apart from the sockpuppetry, there was some copyright issues way, way back. Is there anything else, from a content perspective, that would merit a conditional unblock? By which I mean, an "unblock conditional on an acceptance of a topic ban in articles relating to XYZ." Blackmane (talk) 06:01, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      • Comment - I may be unusually strict, but I oppose any sort of standard offer when there has been sockpuppetry/ I don't think that anyone who has engaged in sockpuppetry can be trusted at their end, at least not until the twenty-second century. That is my opinion. It just reflects a distinction between editors who make mistakes and editors who choose to game the system. I know that other editors are more forgiving than I am, and I am very forgiving of flaming, but not of sockpuppetryl Robert McClenon (talk) 06:48, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      • Further note from Bazaan's talk page:

        I am responding to issues raised in ANI. I again commit myself to never repeating the behavior which caused my indefinite block. In 2013 and 2014, I had differences with a few editors of WP:Bangladesh, which unfortunately swelled into a rather traumatic cycle of personal hostilities. This included pointless edit wars and conflicts over what pictures to be placed in what article. The absence of Wikipedia administrative or arbitration personnel caused the situation to deteriorate further. Initially when I joined Wikipedia around 2007, I was much younger and faced several issues like copyright infringement. But I now have a stronger understanding of Wikipedia policies. I believe I have matured over time. My contributions were never questioned for pushing an unacceptable POV, but a few people at times disagreed with its relevance. However, I used reliable and credible references. If my editing privileges are restored, you will not see any dramatic rise in editing activity. If there are any issues, it will be brought to either DRN or ANI. I've learnt my lesson truly well. I don't deserve a topic ban as I never had serious content disputes. It was mostly personal attacks over pictures and relevant sentences. Lastly regarding sockpuppetry, please have a look at the first investigation. As one administrator notes, he didn't even consider what happened to be sockpuppetry. I opened a second account after being blocked. My mistake. I have always made good faith contributions. Never in bad faith of gaming the system.

        This was left as an unblock request, which I've declined because it wouldn't be right for me to unblock him as this discussion's still ongoing. It was a procedural decline (don't think of it as a frivolous request), and I've asked him to use {{helpme}} when writing future comments for this discussion. Nyttend (talk) 13:40, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      • Bazaan writes "I believe I have matured over time", but he also writes "The absence of Wikipedia administrative or arbitration personnel caused the situation to deteriorate further" and "I don't deserve a topic ban as I never had serious content disputes. It was mostly personal attacks over pictures and relevant sentences." These don't appear to me to be the statements of someone who has "learnt [their] lesson truly well", as they are still blaming others and not taking responsibility for their actions. And for an editor who used multiple sockpuppets to write "Lastly regarding sockpuppetry, please have a look at the first investigation. As one administrator notes, he didn't even consider what happened to be sockpuppetry. I opened a second account after being blocked. My mistake." is not acceptable. Perhaps we can accept that one sockpuppet was a "mistake", but what about the other three they admit to? (That's assuming we can take their word that other accounts which were blocked as theirs were incorrectly identified.) I'm not yet closing the door on this, but, at least so far, I do not find the editor's comments to be persuasive. BMK (talk) 00:43, 10 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      • Although I'm often in agreement with BMK's opinions, in this case I do believe a few of Bazaan's statements are somewhat excusable. Articles about the sub continent can be very contentious considering articles about India and Pakistan ended up at Arbcom. Perhaps Bangladeshi articles should fall into that category given the nation's history with India, but that's a discussion for another page. The sockpuppetry issue is certainly of concern. Perhaps a quick check by a CheckUser would alleviate this concern. [Iff] no socking is revealed in the last 6 months, I could probably support a conditional unblock. Bazaan has admitted to having issues in Bangladeshi articles in the past and letting him back into this area may not be healthiest. If no socking is revealed, then I could support an unblock provided a 3 month topic ban from Bangladeshi articles is levied to encourage Bazaan to edit somewhere else so the community could regain some confidence and to truly prove that he has "matured over time". However, if socking is revealed within the last 6 months, then the offer is off the table. Blackmane (talk) 05:29, 10 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      • I have similar concerns to Blackmane; given how controversial such articles can be, and the past troubles this editor has had while editing them, Most South Asian, but wide ranging doesn't seem the best space to dive straight back into. Perhaps a 3-month topic ban from all sub-continent / South Asian articles would be a good place to start? GoldenRing (talk) 11:12, 12 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      Cram101

      Not sure were best to bring this up. Basically this group appears to has created 10s of thousands of textbooks based on Wikipedia content.[1][2]

      They do not state the books are from WP.[3][4]

      They appear to be created by artificial intelligence.[5]

      Even the sample on their website is from us.[6]

      We had a couple of dozen references to them which I have removed.[7] Have pinged legal to see if they are interested. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 06:29, 11 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      As I've said before [8], the official stance (in the form of a crafted template) that OTRS agents are directed to reply to tickets about reuse of Wikimedia content:
      "Dear Stifle,
      Thank you for bringing the reuse of Wikipedia content to our attention.
      As you may be aware, we encourage other sites to reuse our content. Wikipedia contributors license their content using a license called the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License (CC-BY-SA), which allows reuse of text either in its original form or with modifications provided that certain conditions are met. There are hundreds of web sites that do this. A list of some of them is available here:
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:FORK
      While we encourage all reusers to comply with the requirements of CC-BY-SA, including proper attribution for authors, we are aware of the fact that many web sites do not do so correctly. Thank you again for bringing this site to our attention.
      Yours sincerely,
      Ben Landry"
      Just FYI. ☺ · Salvidrim! · ✉ 20:08, 8 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      Yeah, but the difference here is that they're not just making $ selling WP content (which is fine), but grossly and blatantly ripping people off by misrepresenting what they're paying for. EEng (talk) 22:36, 12 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      I am happy for them to use our content. These people also make textbooks based on Wikipedia content[9] but they at least attribute better (after I brought it to their attention).
      The main thing is we cannot use derivatives of us to references ourselves. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 01:42, 13 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      We all know that we can't use circular references. And you shouldn't be happy for them to use our content -- not the way they do [10]. Commercial use is fine; repackaging WP's material in meaningless ways to rip people off isn't. I'm not saying we can do anything about it, just that it's not OK. EEng (talk) 01:52, 13 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      To clarify I am okay with them using our content as long as they follow our license. It is unfortunate that Amazon and Google do not simply removal all these "books". Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 01:57, 13 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      Thanks for flagging this up and removing the uses. I've added them to the list of common book mirrors in Wikipedia:Potentially unreliable sources. Fences&Windows 01:11, 14 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      Posting login credentials for restricted online sources

      I'd like to confirm if there is a consensus on posting credentials to access restricted online sources that are used as reliable sources. To me it somehow violates the spirit of WP:NOT, even if these same credentials might be somewhat readily available through other websites. It seems that Wikipedia would be aiding the circumvention of other websites' access restrictions.

      I have warned a particular user about this in the past, but they have resumed this practice. Before taking action, I thought I'd get more feedback on this practice. Thanks.—Bagumba (talk) 19:17, 12 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      I would expect that posting something that goes against the terms and conditions of another website (with potential legal ramifications from a non-lawyers perspective) wouldn't want to be something we keep here. Amortias (T)(C) 21:18, 12 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      I found essay Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Cost, which also mentions that content should only be shared if it is legal, which would make sense for username/passwords as well.—Bagumba (talk) 21:09, 13 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      If we're talking legal policies, I'm not sure an essay would cut it; seems like a policy or guideline would serve better, imo. Erpert blah, blah, blah... 01:45, 14 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      If you're talking about any particular database, it's very likely that WP:TWL has or is trying to reach an agreement with that database to provide access to Wikipedians. Someone posting login details for that database would potentially compromise those negotiations. I'm not sure of a particular prohibition against posting login/password information, but someone willing to do that is probably willing to share their Wikipedia account details somewhere else. See WP:SECURITY. It also sounds a bit like a WP:COPYLINK situation, except it's not a copyright problem but a contract problem. Finally, I feel like it probably violates the Wikipedia TOS, specifically the section on "Committing infringement", which covers more than just copyright. In fact, I feel like that's something you can hang your hat on, but I'd suggest asking for someone at WMF to look at the specific situation and, if necessary, enforce the TOS. —/Mendaliv/2¢/Δ's/ 03:47, 14 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      The case I was initially referring to was a domain specific website, and not one of the more general repositories that TWL provides us access to.—Bagumba (talk) 20:33, 14 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      Nevertheless, unless I misunderstand the concern you're addressing, I feel like this is a TOS-type issue which probably should result in a office action or something similar. —/Mendaliv/2¢/Δ's/ 00:14, 15 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      WP:UAA backlog

      User names for administrator attention has a backlog going back at least a week. Robert McClenon (talk) 21:19, 12 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      Posting about it every week on AN is hardly necessary nor helpful, especially when the latest post is only a few threads up. Everything is a backlog by definition. ☺ · Salvidrim! · ✉ 22:00, 12 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      Notice of revision of two Arbitration motions

      This serves as a notification that two previously announced Arbitration Committee motions ([11][12]) have been revised.

      For the Arbitration Committee, Kharkiv07 (T) 21:36, 13 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      Discuss this at Wikipedia talk:Arbitration Committee/Noticeboard
      Bravo – that is much clearer than the originals. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 23:28, 13 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      Revdel requested

      Can someone please Revdel this- I don't want company spam in the history of my talkpage, and it clearly meets criteria 3 for redaction- purely disrupted material. Joseph2302 (talk) 19:57, 14 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      Seems like a reasonable request to me, so consider it done. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 20:27, 14 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      @Boing! said Zebedee: Could you also Revdel this as a grossly offensive edit summary? Thanks. Joseph2302 (talk) 20:29, 14 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      Looks like someone has done it. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 22:06, 14 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      The Arbitration Committee Audit Subcommittee (AUSC) disbanded

      The Arbitration Committee Audit Subcommittee (AUSC) is hereby disbanded. Any complaints related to misuse of the advanced permissions CheckUser or Oversight (suppression) will henceforth be investigated by the Arbitration Committee as a whole. Complaints can be forwarded to the Arbitration Committee via the Arbitration Committee mailing list (arbcom-l). In the event of a committee member being the subject of the complaint, the complaint may be forwarded to any individual committee member. That committee member will initiate a discussion on one of the alternate mailing lists, with the committee member who is the subject of the complaint unsubscribed from the list for the duration of the discussion. Over the course of the investigation, the Arbitration Committee may draw upon the experience of members of the functionaries team to aid in the investigation.

      Support: kelapstick, Doug Weller, Keilana, Drmies, GorillaWarfare, DGG, Opabinia regalis, Kirill Lokshin, Salvio giuliano, Courcelles, Guerillero, Callanecc, Cas Liber

      For the Arbitration Committee, Doug Weller talk 16:49, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

      Cross-posted for the Committee by Kharkiv07 (T) 20:47, 14 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      Discuss this at: Wikipedia talk:Arbitration Committee/Noticeboard#The Arbitration Committee Audit Subcommittee (AUSC) disbanded

      Removal of CU/OS tools from the community members of AUSC whose terms have expired

      AUSC community members who do not hold CU and OS tools in their own right are given them during their period on AUSC. As their terms have now expired, the checkuser permissions of:

      and the oversight permission of:

      are removed. The committee thanks them for their service.

      Support: Doug Weller, DGG, Kelapstick, Callanecc, Opabinia regalis, Drmies, Gamaliel, Guerillero, Salvio giuliano

      For the Arbitration Committee, Doug Weller talk 16:49, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

      Cross-posted for the Committee by Kharkiv07 (T) 20:47, 14 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      Discuss this at: Wikipedia talk:Arbitration Committee/Noticeboard#Removal of CU/OS tools from the community members of AUSC whose terms have expired

      Adding Template:Empty-warn-deletion and other post-deletion notices to Twinkle

      Not sure about the rest of you, but I didn't even know these templates existed until recently. I have been doing a terrible practice of first using Twinkle to request speedy deletion, then deleting it (never mind if this was done too hastily, let's assume it wasn't). That way the user gets that important info they need about why the page was inappropriate, along with a welcome template, etc. I know of other admins who also follow this less-than-ideal procedure.

      So, I thought this workflow should be incorporated into Twinkle. This would be a whole new interface change, that I figure would mimic the Block module. That is, you have a "delete page" checkbox, and another for "add deletion notice to user talk page". The latter would welcome the user if they haven't been already, and issue a deletion notice if they've haven't already received a notice about the page being nominated for deletion. We'd need to map each rationale to one of the existing post-deletion templates, or create a few new ones as needed.

      Any thoughts or suggestions on this matter? Is this effort worthwhile - as in, would you use it!? =P

      Related: Around midday GMT on 15 January I'm going to deploy a big update to the Twinkle CSD module. This will just make it so that admins can delete under multiple rationale, enter in URLs for copyright vios, etc, just like you can for requesting speedy deletion. More on that later! — MusikAnimal talk 04:39, 15 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      (Non-administrator comment) Cool! That sounds absolutely appropriate for certain types of speedy, like ones dealing with copyvio, since those almost never can be successfully contested. I'd be more concerned about enabling an instant A7 with no warning, though. —/Mendaliv/2¢/Δ's/ 04:54, 15 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      I had the same thought, however the page could have been up for a while with no modifications, in which case A7 without prior notice might be appropriate. I feel like Twinkle functionality can have a big influence on what users do, so maybe there should be an additional confirmation for certain criterion like A7 — MusikAnimal talk 05:20, 15 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      You wouldn't be "enabling an instant A7 with no warning", that option is available to every admin anyway, and some (many?) use it (I do, to give an example). Whether a page gets tagged for A7 by an editor and deleted two minutes later by an admin, or gets deleted straight away, won't make much of a difference for the user being informed / warned. I have no objection to the proposal, automatically informing the user isn't a problem, but this shouldn't be used to impose new restrictions on what can be deleted. Fram (talk) 09:03, 15 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      Big update to Twinkle CSD module

      I've just deployed a big update to the CSD module. You can now delete under multiple rationale, and the deletion summaries are generated by the corresponding speedy deletion template. This means they live in one place, and you don't need a Twinkle developer to update them. If a page is already been tagged for speedy deletion, the CSD module will presupply the edit summary created by the speedy template, just like it does now if you delete manually. You also can use the same parameters you can use when requesting speedy deletion. For instance, if you delete under G12 you can provide URLs which will appear in the deletion summary.

      Other unrelated changes you'll notice are that talk pages now open in a tab by default, not a window. This change has been a long time coming, and I assume it will be welcomed by most. E.g. beforehand you needed to disable popup blockers!

      Let me know if you have any issues. Regards — MusikAnimal talk 16:57, 15 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      This, and the section above, all sounds like good stuff to me. As a long-time Twinkle user, I thank you for all your hard work. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 17:35, 15 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      My pleasure, so to offer a promotional statement for those who haven't been using Twinkle to delete pages... Delete a page, it's talk page, and all of it's redirects, in as little as two clicks. If you have "When to go ahead and tag/delete the page" set to "As soon as I click an option" in your preferences, you can do all of this in one click. I don't really recommend that though, so as to avoid mistakes. Your choice! — MusikAnimal talk 17:52, 15 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      Good stuff MA- have I also noticed a change in what happens in an edit-conflict- being able to save the changes without reloading the page? Or do I not know what I'm talking about??? Cheers! Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi 17:57, 15 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      Hmm not sure, wouldn't have been part of this release — MusikAnimal talk 18:16, 15 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      Well. Thank you for confirming I don't know what I'm talking about MusikAnimal. Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi 19:32, 15 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      I never really used Twinkle's CSD module as I thought t was a bit clunky. Just tried this out, seems much better, thanks! Beeblebrox (talk) 21:43, 15 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      Would an admin kindly look at this thread?

      Thread in question cromulently closed. - The Bushranger One ping only 11:13, 16 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

      Obvious trolling going on, should be boxed up. Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)#Consensus_and_the_WMF_is_not_working AlbinoFerret 19:04, 15 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      I think you mean Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)#Consensus_is_not_working, and it looks like Liz is trying. Keegan (talk) 00:34, 16 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      I've closed the discussion for now. Liz Read! Talk! 00:57, 16 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

      Proposal to community ban the "Best known for IP"

      I think I personally have blocked the user described in Wikipedia:Long-term abuse/Best known for IP about 15 times now, including several lengthy rangeblocks for chronic block evasion, edit warring and incivility, and I'm not the only admin to do this, and I'm now a bit fed up of blocking the same person for the same policy violations over and over again. Unlike most long-term abusers, he's never actually been community banned, merely repeatedly blocked ad infinitum after evasion. While this might seem like an exercise in pointless red tape, it does give us a firm consensus to say "you are banned, goodbye" without any possibility of wasting anyone's time arguing about it. Our banning policy does permit it, though it's rare. Your thoughts, please.

      Support as proposer Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 11:47, 16 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

      As is well known, I make only high quality edits, which are often reverted for no reason at all by a clique of editors who simply hate people without usernames. Ritchie333 has led a long term campaign of attacks against me, creating a policy violating page to coordinate them. He has a) blocked large ranges of anonymous IPs for months or years at a time in contravention of blocking policy, b) declared himself "involved" and unable to block me only to then block me, as he says, many times, c) abused the revision delete policy to delete my edits, with the claim that the word "idiot" is "grossly offensive"; d) encouraged others to revert my edits for no reason - see "Beyond My Ken"'s 200+ reverts last night; e) encouraged others to break the 3RR and to violate core policy; f) used his adminstrative tools to prevent spelling and grammar corrections being made to severely deficient articles, including acting to keep the word "should't" in an article for more than a year; g) encouraged a racist editor to remove sourced statements describing the reaction to a referendum, on the grounds that he finds them personally offensive.
      I am not and have never been banned. I am not and have never been a "long term abuser", as falsely claimed here. An absurd block placed for spurious reasons by a subsequently desysopped admin is being used as justification for the most obscene attacks yet on my character and edits. It should be obvious who is causing the problems here. If you think that admin time is being wasted, then tell the policy abusing admins to stop wasting their time. If you'd only stop reverting and blocking for no reason at all, there would be no problem here. 85.13.238.124 (talk) 14:03, 16 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      And by the way, stopping your attacks on me is the only plausible long term solution. I will never stop what I do here, because what I do here is write an encyclopaedia. 85.13.238.124 (talk) 14:06, 16 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      Comment if you're so unfairly treated, can you explain all of your sock-puppetry? --Jules (Mrjulesd) 14:12, 16 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      I have never used sockpuppets. Why are you lying about me? Who are you, anyway? To the best of my recollection we've had no previous interaction whatsoever. 85.13.238.124 (talk) 14:18, 16 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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