User talk:In ictu oculi

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Authentic Matthew

Saw your post on the Jesus talk page. I am not a scholar, but I follow most of the same Bible pages as yourself (I'm sure we've spoken/tangled once or twice on Talk pages) so even if/though you think I'm an idiot, if you ever need anyone to come in and take a look as a "referee" with a similar Wiki background to work from, I'd be happy to. I reviewed the thread you linked and aware of all the players - and somewhat surprised to see both the return of User:Ret.Prof and that he is the one spearheading this. Have a happy New Year! Yours - Ckruschke (talk) 18:21, 31 December 2013 (UTC)Ckruschke

Thanks for your offer. However, right now I am trying to get away from Authentic Matthew and focus on the Oral Gospel tradition. You would be a welcome addition. You are no idiot! You are a respected Wikipedia editor! - Ret.Prof (talk) 19:06, 31 December 2013 (UTC)

User:Ckruschke many thanks, yours is a User name I view with confidence. In ictu oculi (talk) 01:06, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, I think... ;-). Ckruschke (talk) 02:52, 2 January 2014 (UTC)Ckruschke

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Talkback

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Joseph O'Donnell

I see that the Joseph O'Donnell page was changed to Joseph O'Donnell Sr., his father (16 Sept 2013 edit). Also, the original Joseph O'Donnell data was added to Enrique José O'Donnell, Conde de La Bisbal. I'm sure that you didn't intend to mix two people up, but the Joseph (or José) who fought at Battle of Zujar and Battle of Castalla (1812) was the brother of the Count of La Bisbal, commonly referred to in English-language sources as Henry. Please see Charles Oman's History of the Peninsular War: Volume IV and look in the index. There is Charles, Joseph and Henry (or Enrique José if you prefer). Henry fought at the Battle of La Bisbal and the Battle of Vich. Actually most of Henry's fighting is told in Oman's Volume III. In Oman's Volume V on page 567 is this note, "he [Joseph O'Donnell] entirely lacked the fiery determination of his brother Henry, the hero of La Bispal." Oman Vol. V page 567 Unless you can convince me that Oman is wrong, I plan to create a new page for Joseph O'Donnell different from his father's page. I know the feeling, because I've gotten Gabriel Venance Rey, Louis Emmanuel Rey and Jean-Pierre-Antoine Rey crossed up at one time or other. The last two were brothers who were generals in Spain at the same time and the sources unhelpfully just say "Rey". Djmaschek (talk) 05:27, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

• Check out this page: Familia de Héroes. It shows brothers Enrique José (1769-1834), José (1768-1836) and Carlos (1772-1830). Djmaschek (talk) 07:03, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

User:Djmaschek, well spotted. Looking at the Spanish sources I think you are correct. In ictu oculi (talk) 07:30, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

Google Ngrams help needed

Hi IIO. I've seen you're very au fait with Google Ngrams and Google Books and I'm trying to pull together Ngram stats for the discussion at Talk:Star_Wars_Episode_IV:_A_New_Hope#Requested_move. As you can see from this link [1] using the colon renders the results useless. Any ideas? Thanks. Zarcadia (talk) 21:05, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

User:Zarcadia, sorry have tried a couple of things but got nowhere. No idea. In ictu oculi (talk) 01:43, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

Okay, thanks for having a look. Zarcadia (talk) 07:19, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

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Listen to My Heart

Hello IIO. I closed the discussion at Talk:Listen to My Heart#Requested move. Can you check that article (which is now a DAB) to see if it looks right? I have not yet begun to check for incoming links that need to be updated. Thanks, EdJohnston (talk) 20:20, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Okay, done. Thanks In ictu oculi (talk) 12:38, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

Chasing Shadows

Can you please take a look at Chasing Shadows and see what you think? I have a feeling you might be able to help clean that up. In particular, some of those entries are probably duplicates. —BarrelProof (talk) 01:16, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

Done, caught a few In ictu oculi (talk) 12:38, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

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Edition needed for Ai Chau Article

Tana Li doesnt mention anything about champa and in "Dai Viet Su Ky Toan Thu" also doesnt mention anything about Ai Chau was populated by any Cham People. Ai Chau was one of Cửu Chân District during Chinese Dominiton. The truth is Dương Tiến Lục lead an attack by the local or native people of Ai Chau and Hoan Chau and planned to betray Lê Hoàn, they were Viet , not other race(archaeology evidences presented)In Dai Viet Sử ký toàn thư and Khâm Định Việt Sử Thông giám Cương Mục wrote : " Dương Tiến Lộc lấy hai Châu Hoan, Ái làm phản. Vua thân đi đánh, Tiến Lộc bị giết.Bấy giờ vua sai viên Quảng Giáp là Tiến Lộc đi thu thuế hai châu Hoan và Ái, Tiến Lộc đem người hai châu ấy XIN THEO VỀ VỚI CHIÊM THÀNH. CHIÊM THÀNH KHÔNG NHẬN. Vua nghe tin, đem các quân đến đánh Châu Hoan, Châu Ái, đuổi bắt được Tiến Lộc và giết người 2 châu ấy không biết bao nhiêu mà kể." Read the history book carefully before making any changes. I will have to remove the wrong line and fake edition. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hiraki (talk • contribs) 09:36, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

Coincidental only with Cham battles' yes. added full source In ictu oculi (talk) 04:41, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Nicol Sponberg

The article Nicol Sponberg has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Non-notable musician. See WP:MUSICBIO Walter Görlitz (talk) 20:29, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

Well it hasn't been, there is no tag, and there shouldn't be. Reply to User on User's Talk page here. In ictu oculi (talk) 00:26, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

User withdrew prod. In ictu oculi (talk) 04:40, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

Regarding non-English article titles

Well here's the thing, in 2011, I got into trouble for doing a mass-move of changing article titles using its native capitalization (discussion of that can be found here, which I'm still ashamed of). I'm not saying your wrong, but rather where I'm coming from. I mean no offense on the talk page. Erick (talk) 02:34, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

Talk:John Brent (comedian)

The article John Brent (comedian) has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Non-notable individual lacking non-trivial coverage. References are trivial at best. Fails WP:BIO and article fails to meet WP:42. reddogsix (talk) 16:05, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

Referred to article talk page. In ictu oculi (talk) 04:37, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

George Perkins (singer)

Hi: according to this site: http://blog.ponderosastomp.com/2013/05/rip-george-perkins-1942-2013-soul-giant-behind-cryin-in-the-streets-remembered-by-jeff-hannusch/

Mr. Perkins is no longer living. Is this a good enough source to cite to justify adding a death date and category, etc.? I have not been able to find much else beyond a local La. obituary (linked in the above article). Please let me know what you think. Thanks--FeanorStar7 01:58, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

User:FeanorStar7 yes, the obituary is by Jeff Hannusch, books on Amazon and a reliable music writer. I have added it, thank you. In ictu oculi (talk) 04:31, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

MOS:Does not have an article listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect MOS:Does not have an article. Since you had some involvement with the MOS:Does not have an article redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion (if you have not already done so). John Vandenberg ^(chat) 04:40, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

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Come On Come On (song)

Hello IIO. Recently I closed your RM at Talk:Come On Come On (Little Birdy song). My assumption is that, now that the article is disambiguated with the name of the group, the original page at Come On Come On (song) (now a redirect to the Little Birdy song) should be pointed to Come On Come On (disambiguation). I'll leave that to the discretion of others, since it doesn't need an admin and the move close doesn't necessarily determine what to do about it. Thanks, EdJohnston (talk) 15:24, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

corrupted text

Hi, You added some corrupted text to Friedrich Nicolaus Bruhns, in a fn. Could you fix please? Thnx, — kwami (talk) 01:56, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

4 corrupted characters in a 6,000k article creation. It happens. In ictu oculi (talk) 02:05, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

Wiping out half

Hello, I'm Lova Falk. I noticed that you recently removed lots and lots of content from Posttraumatic stress disorder without explaining why. I guess this was a mistake, and I restored the removed content. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thanks! Lova Falk talk 08:31, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks - Yes, I didn't mean to wipe the PSTD article, was making a minor hatnote edit, connectivity problem did the rest. In ictu oculi (talk) 09:51, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. In ictu oculi (talk) 11:31, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

Article title

Hi, you moved Child of the Universe to Child of the Universe (Delta Goodrem album) as opposed to Child of the Universe (album). Why is this, considering there are no albums that share this title? Thanks Melonkelon (talk) 04:46, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

Because of the Barclay James Harvest compilation album, although I note that there is also a reggae album by Screwdriver (musician). In ictu oculi (talk) 05:09, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

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Blackwater Park

Hello. Another editor has started a discussion at Talk:Blackwater Park (album)#Requested move regarding your move of Blackwater Park to Blackwater Park (album). Please join in the discussion. MrMoustacheMM (talk) 17:41, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

I closed the move as successful because there did not seem be a controversy. Since you appear to understand this, can you fix up any incoming links to the article or the DAB as you think best? Thanks, EdJohnston (talk) 05:21, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of When Love Calls Your Name (disambiguation)

The article When Love Calls Your Name (disambiguation) has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

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Embrace (2014 album) and Embrace (1987 album)

Is this sort of disamugation necessary? It's very complicated and unnecessary, in my opinion. What's wrong with the simpler one we had before? It worked well for David Bowie's two eponymous albums, why couldn't it work here? I don't think i'll ever meet someone who would be bothered to type in "Embrace (Embrace (English band) album)" into the search engine, honestly. RazorEye ⡭ ₪ ·o' ⍦ ࿂ 19:04, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

Hi, well no one will ever type in any ( ) dab, and Google copes with that. I have come across it before and that is the model of how it is done, there are other examples Bleach (Bleach (American band) album) vs Bleach (Bleach (Japanese band) album). The reason Bowie works is that is two albums by the same artist, this isn't. In ictu oculi (talk) 00:38, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

I've put in a RM at Talk:Bleach (album), let's find out whether that ( ( ) ) style really is the norm or not. In ictu oculi (talk) 01:13, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

Julián Velásquez

Hi. I saw that you moved Julian Velásquez to Julián Velásquez and I was wondering on what basis you made that change. Could you let me know? Canadian Paul 23:01, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

That's just how Julián is spelled in Spanish. check Google Books In ictu oculi (talk) 00:39, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

Alrighty, seems reasonable. Thanks for the response. Canadian Paul 00:49, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

RM: The Martyr

Hi, possibly we had a misunderstanding at this RM. I differentiated between a web search, which favoured rap album related results, and the book search, which returned several unrelated books until you added additional specific terms. Hopefully it's now clearer what I was trying to say. I support the move regardless, cheers. benmoore 21:22, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Wikifact

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Latin American music

Hey there! I did some changes to Latin American music last month to include the definition provided by sources. What do you think? Erick (talk) 01:18, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Re: Blanking articles

I didn't blank those pages, I redirected both to their parent album article, Playing the Angel. WP:NSONGS states, "Songs that do not rise to notability for an independent article should redirect to another relevant article, such as for the songwriter, a prominent album or for the artist who prominently performed the song." SnapSnap 19:42, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

Replied on User talk page. In ictu oculi (talk) 20:22, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

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Spirit possession

Hi and thanks for your message. It was in response to this thread on the Fringe theories noticeboard. The article may have been cleaned up a bit since the post, but the Islam section still only has primary sources. I know that there is a long tradition of belief in jinns and maybe we could bring some material in. If you could just cast an eye over the article, that would be very useful. Itsmejudith (talk) 11:47, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

Otomo Yoshihide

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Talkback

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Wieno (talk) 20:35, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

Move of Sovereign (album)‎‎

I'm not sure I understand your logic here: "created out of a redirect, but 5 other albums in articles on dab". I only one notable album at Sovereign (disambiguation) and that's the one that has an article. I see one EP. It was correctly moved this past July from Sovereign (album) to Sovereign (EP). The only think that I think is needed is a hatnote on the new album that either points back to the dab or to the EP. If a move is to happen again, I would also suggest a discussion on the album's talk page. Walter Görlitz (talk) 02:46, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

Do you not talk before you damage Wikipedia? Move it back and talk now please. Walter Görlitz (talk) 02:47, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

02:46 - 02:47 is less than 1 minute. It generally isn't a good idea to insert/create a new article out of a redirect to existing content, particularly when there's a WP:CRYSTALBALL element. But no problem, I happily moved it back, despite the other 5 Sovereign albums in articles, and Google Books. You may wish to be more sparing with personal attack and insult language like "damage". In ictu oculi (talk) 03:01, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

Formal mediation on Gospel of Matthew - draft request

On my Talk page you'll find a draft of a request for formal mediation on Gospel of Matthew and its sister, Hebrew Gospel hypothesis. The idea is that Ret.Prof will file the request for mediation, and it will take as its cause or whatever the phrase is a reversion I did of one of his edits regarding authentic Matthew. RetProf, Ignocrates and I have worked at this (an Davidbena has seen it because he thinks like RetProf), and we'd now like you to see and comment before RetProf drops it in the mailbox.

The idea is that we're doing this nice - everyone agrees, and the aim is to test, through mediation, whether authentic Matthew needs to be more fully explored in the GoM article. The draft will explain. PiCo (talk) 05:03, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

Formal mediation has been requested

The Mediation Committee has received a request for formal mediation of the dispute relating to "Hebrew Gospel of Matthew". As an editor concerned in this dispute, you are invited to participate in the mediation. Mediation is a voluntary process which resolves a dispute over article content by facilitation, consensus-building, and compromise among the involved editors. After reviewing the request page, the formal mediation policy, and the guide to formal mediation, please indicate in the "party agreement" section whether you agree to participate. Because requests must be responded to by the Mediation Committee within seven days, please respond to the request by 16 February 2014.

Discussion relating to the mediation request is welcome at the case talk page. Thank you.
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Correction

What I meant in my last message ([2]) was "You had to reply". I wish you hadn't. Sorry about that mistake.

No reply necessary (nor desired). Remove this message if you want. Goodbye. SamEV (talk) 08:47, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

Mediation

For the record, I believe it would be in everybody's best interests if someone were to review the guidelines for formal and informal mediation, particularly regarding what content in mediation can and cannot be considered at proposals for topic bans or arbitration. I believe that there is rather obvious, in fact almost overwhelming, evidence that Ret. Prof. is more or less a devoted SPA POV pusher regarding the "Jewishness" of early Christianity, and I very much believe that would likely be taken into account at such proceedings. I also believe that it would be in everybody's best interests if any clear misconduct which might take place in mediation should be available for consideration in arbitration or noticeboard discussion, should, as I think likely, problematic conduct continue. John Carter (talk) 18:07, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

User:John Carter, thank you for having momentarily put a head up from retirement. From the little I understood of the Ebionites issue (which I again apologize for not watching, a lapse of responsibility) I don't have confidence that the process is going to result in articles having more of a scholarly/SBL/JPS WP:RS approach. In ictu oculi (talk) 18:56, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

No apologies necessary. I also believe that the mediation may well be ultimately fruitless, and on that basis suggest that if some variety of official mediation were to take place, it wouldbe in everybody's best interests that any questionable conduct during mediation be available for review by administrators orarbitrators. John Carter (talk) 02:14, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

RfD nomination of WP:NICKNAME

Hello, friend. I've nominated WP:NICKNAME for retargeting at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2014 February 10#Wikipedia:NICKNAME. I'm letting you know since its only incoming link is from one of your arguments at Talk:Virginia Tech; you may well have no opinion on the question. --BDD (talk) 21:35, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

User:BDD, that's okay, I have no opinion, do as you think best. Cheers. In ictu oculi (talk) 22:40, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

Request for mediation accepted

The request for formal mediation of the dispute concerning Hebrew Gospel of Matthew, in which you were listed as a party, has been accepted by the Mediation Committee. The case will be assigned to an active mediator within two weeks, and mediation proceedings should begin shortly thereafter. Proceedings will begin at the case information page, Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/Hebrew Gospel of Matthew, so please add this to your watchlist. Formal mediation is governed by the Mediation Committee and its Policy. The Policy, and especially the first two sections of the "Mediation" section, should be read if you have never participated in formal mediation. For a short guide to accepted cases, see the "Accepted requests" section of the Guide to formal mediation. You may also want to familiarise yourself with the internal Procedures of the Committee.

As mediation proceedings begin, be aware that formal mediation can only be successful if every participant approaches discussion in a professional and civil way, and is completely prepared to compromise. Please contact the Committee if anything is unclear.

For the Mediation Committee, User:Sunray (talk) 02:12, 11 February 2014 (UTC)
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So, are you participating in mediation or what? We have been waiting for you to join. Ignocrates (talk) 04:20, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

I don't really understand what the mediation process is or how it works or what it can expect to achieve. In ictu oculi (talk) 07:04, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

Here is a link to the Mediation Policy which explains the mediation process. Let me know if you have any other questions. Sunray (talk) 08:47, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

I don't want to make any unwarranted assumptions, but you have to "Agree" to mediation on the mediation page if you intend to participate. Ignocrates (talk) 01:43, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

Hi In ictu oculi, would you be able to signify your agreement (or not) to this mediation, by signing here? Sunray (talk) 18:38, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

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idoling

thanks for that much of your own time~ its not my thing at all, but ive taken it upon myself to send a message that these articles need attention & editors here've been abusing the lack of critical review & language barrier! i'm embroiled with a related subject at dyk if you already didnt noticed~ kampai Japanglish (talk) 16:27, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

Okinawan folk music

Is there an article on Ryukyu minyo? I see that there is an article on Minyo. My source says that Misako Oshiro owns the top Okinawan minyo joint Shimaumui, a basement bar. Taiko drums and sanshin are used. Candleabracadabra (talk) 05:59, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

Hi, User:Candleabracadabra only Ryukyuan music. In ictu oculi (talk) 08:09, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

Block evasion

Don't know, but I prefer to use a different approach. Now semi-protected. Deb (talk) 08:20, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

Yes - I often wish I wasn't! See Talk:BeerXML. Deb (talk) 08:36, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

Fencer

Hi. Thanks for the info. Looking back at the edit history, there appears to have been a copy-and-paste move (with no source on the acent). I'll request a speedy delete of the redirect and move to the correct title. Thanks for spotting it and sourcing the article too! Lugnuts ^{Dick Laurent is dead} 19:09, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

Jenő

Didn't you request a technical move recently involving this name? For the corresponding Russian name there is a page called Yevgeni listing people who have that as a given name. Jenő just redirects to Jenő (village). Is that the best use of this article name? Should there be something like a DAB page? Thanks, EdJohnston (talk) 02:45, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Hi Ed. I did indeed, somehow the original name stub I made got erased. Never mind I have remade a better one, thanks for the notification, cheers. In ictu oculi (talk) 08:04, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

I could be the deleter of the previous DAB. Oops! Thanks for your work. EdJohnston (talk) 17:41, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Talk:Manchester capitalism#Requested move

Greetings. Since you commented earlier in the discussion at Talk:Manchester capitalism#Requested move, please weigh on the proposed alternative, Manchester Liberalism (or Manchester liberalism). Cheers! bd2412 T 20:20, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Re: Iaaasi

I think this investigation is meaningless as this sockpuppet returns again and again. :( His favourite topics, among others, John Hunyadi, Magyarization, 1848-1849 massacres in Transylvania, Romania in the Middle Ages and he usually checks Hungarian editors' activity. --Norden1990 (talk) 21:24, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

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House of Gundulic/Gondola

Apparently user DIREKTOR does not like we list the secondary sources, we should rather operated by Google research. Fine, but why removing our edits from the Talk page? --Silvio1973 (talk) 12:44, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

I've posted a provisional agreement with the proposal to rename the article. I'm curious about why you proposed it. Tapered (talk) 16:30, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

Oops, missed it. It seems no one besides the main disputants cares. They're both ideologues. I have no ready access to good histories of the area. I believe that House of Gundulic will remain for the foreseeable future. Tapered (talk) 07:24, 28 February 2014 (UTC)

4th century heresies

For many of those groups, I think it worth noting that even Bart Ehrman in his Lost Christianities said with only a very few exceptions, and I think the only one he names is 1 Clement (no idea why the Shepherd of Hermas wasn't also included), they were all forgeries written well after their purported time. The better recent sources for material on this topic would be the Schneemelcher/Henneke New Testament Apocrypha, which is kind of exhaustive on matters like this, and Ehrman's Lost Christianities, when supplying overview material. There is a comparatively recent book, Bad Religion by Ross Douthat, which provides some reasonable criticism, at least coming close to saying that some of the work of Ehrman, Pagels, and a few others, may be at least as motivated by their own changed views as those of, say, Jesuit scholars is. And, FWIW, having known a few Jesuit scholars, I wonder exactly how it is that they hadn't been excommunicated for their beliefs which radically divert from Catholic doctrine, so I guess I could say, in some instances, at least some of them might be more "independent" than Ehrman, Pagels, and the like.

One of the big areas of difficulty I see about the topic of Christianity as I see it is that it is so freaking huge, covered to such an incredible degree in staggering numbers of reliable sources, that it is hard, if not impossible, to really make many of the articles about major Christian topics of decent quality. The best way I can think of to address that is, basically, what I am kind of getting ready to do now, find as many good, reputable PD sources as I can for inclusion in commons or wikisource, as many well-regarded recent reference books as I can in various libraries, and list their content. Maybe, once all that is done, if it ever is, we might be able to get more of our content up to a reasonable level. John Carter (talk) 20:42, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

Vietnamese letter Đ

I've just discovered that a significant number of Vietnamese names have been entered using Ð (Unicode letter eth) instead of the identical-looking Đ (Unicode D with stroke). Examples in article titles are Ðỗ Mậu, Ngô Ðình Nhu, Hà Ðông, Ðông Pháp Thời Báo, Ðoàn Thị Ðiểm; there are many other uses within other articles. I'll put in move requests for the main ones. Just something to be aware of. Colonies Chris (talk) 11:20, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) That's a good catch. These moves look like a good idea. Has this happened in the bodies of articles too? bobrayner (talk) 11:36, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

Yes, there are cases within articles too. I'm in the process of searching for them now. Searching for any of the names listed above will show some results. (I've just renamed two of them - for the others I've requested admin assistance.) Colonies Chris (talk) 11:41, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

Thanks User:Colonies Chris, good catch, good work. In ictu oculi (talk) 11:18, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

Talk:Emperor Jimmu

Hey Iio, Ajax replied to you a little while ago. MOS-JA supports the move. 182.249.240.3 (talk) 11:07, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

Re: Necrothesp's nose

"Nose" was the most polite orifice I could think of. I could have said "mouth", but his opposition coming out of his mouth is literally the case and so the metaphor would have lost all meaning. His reasons last time were just as much pulled out of nowhere, in my opinion. He just said "this subject has long been known" without citing any evidence. Another user independently gave NGrams that showed reprints of old books from the early 20th century favour the "mm" spelling, but as I have clearly demonstrated on the current RM modern reliable sources both from the relevant governmental bodies and from universities prefer the "nm" spelling. Necrothesp also insulted me on the last RM, insinuating that I actually don't know what I'm talking about, and he clearly remembers it because he referred directly to said previous RM. How about you ask him to apologize for the arrogance of the self-proclaimed "expert"[3] and once he does that I'll apologize for my nose comment. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 15:32, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

Mmm. In ictu oculi (talk) 16:47, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

Hey Iio, I apologized to Necrothesp for the nose comment, despite him doubling down on his earlier comment. Anyway, I noticed you stated you would support the move if both spellings were demonstrated that both were established. At the time you posted that, maybe we hadn't done so, but certainly have now. The Japanese government and universities' English publications favour the "Jinmu" spelling 3:1. Recent books written by specialists in the area also favour "Jinmu". Books using the "Jimmu" spelling, on the other hand, seem to be primarily getting their information (or at least spelling style) from Wikipedia. 182.249.54.65 (talk) 09:28, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

I see that. But I think it can stay at the old spelling with no great damage - or tighten JPMOS, which is another discussion, for all WPJapan editors. In ictu oculi (talk) 09:39, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

I plan on doing just that once the RM closes (it would obviously be totally inappropriate right now). WPJAPAN editors would almost universally interpret the current wording to say "use Jinmu", but MOS guidelines probably shouldn't need to be "interpreted". I assume you agree with me that we also shouldn't be saying "use Google"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 182.249.240.8 (talk) 10:31, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

Well yes I generally think benchmark to modern academic sources (eg use Google Books) and build into MOS guidelines with broad input for any MOS issue. In ictu oculi (talk) 13:36, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

Casals

I have replied to your message on Pablo Casals. I thought I would let you know in case you have not seen it. 131.111.185.66 (talk) 17:38, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

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Pablo Casals

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.
I am writing to you to inform you that I have submitted a note to WP:ANI concerning the edit you made to Talk:Pablo Casals#Survey. The reason for this is that I am concerned that a non-neutral point of view is causing disruption on the page through selectively ignoring important and clearly identified evidence and asserting a political view. In particular, the ostensibly WP:POV remark it seems strange for en.wikipedia to be introducing a Franco-era type ban on the name of one of the most famous Catalans appears problematic. I hope you might be able to consider the matter from a neutral viewpoint. 131.111.185.66 (talk) 10:28, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

I am just writing again to thank you for your more helpful comment on Talk:Pablo Casals. I hate heated debates and I am glad we might be able to discuss it in a calmer and more neutral way. I am not going to withdraw my post on WP:ANI, because I still think it would be useful for administrators to watch over what is a potentially controversial issue. On a note related to your comment, I just want to repeat to you that I am more than happy for Pau to be used primarily in these articles, as I have mentioned before. My whole reasoning is based around mentioning Pablo so that there is absolutely no confusion for readers (which is essentially option two). I opened the request for comments simply because it appeared as if you did not want Pablo mentioned at all. Now that it has been opened, I assume the decision comes down to the consensus of the community rather than my individual attempts at coming to a solution. 131.111.185.66 (talk) 13:41, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia:ANI Advice is only an essay but you might want to check item 4, which is the reason I'm not responding to argue content issues there. In ictu oculi (talk) 13:45, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for notifying me of that page: I had not seen it before. I think it is important that my comment was not one concerning content but the general course of the discussion. Whatever happens, it might still be useful to have a note there for administrators in case something flares up in the future. 131.111.185.66 (talk) 14:06, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Just to clarify, I do not mean by that anything that flares up with you in the future: I mean any kind of problems with any users whatsoever. 131.111.185.66 (talk) 14:07, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Re-title Request

I did what you said in "Cyprus" to "Republic of Cyprus" issue. However, the page RM is updated every 30-minutes. I can't see the effect now. I'll observe, and then correct if any further need is necesary. Thanks for your suggestion.Alexyflemming (talk) 14:21, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Should be okay, it does take time for the formatting to update. Good luck! In ictu oculi (talk) 14:26, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

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Closing request to proposed move

Can you please close the requested proposal on Talk:House of Gundulić#Requested move. Over two weeks passed and there is no consensus, it's time for the request to be closed. Shokatz (talk) 18:59, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

Maple Leaf Four

Just curious as to where you got this information from. If the group comprised John, Alan, two Joes and Marion, wouldn't that make Five, not Four? Could the two Joes be the same person? Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:47, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

Hi, simply because I wasn't confident to edit what you added "with his brothers Norman and Joe, and sister Marion" I couldn't find any evidence of a 3rd brother Joe, I believe it was Joe Melia, nor any evidence of Marion having sung with the group instead of Al Harvey. I've added sources from London Calling and Roy Hudd. If there is evidence of a 3rd brother please add. Cheers. In ictu oculi (talk) 09:16, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

Ah - I think I misread this source as suggesting that Marion was one of the four. My mistake - thanks for correcting me! Ghmyrtle (talk) 09:22, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

Satan article edits by user Editguy111

The Hebrew definition of Satan has been edited from the definitive article to the generic term i.e., "satan" rather than "The Satan". I didn't notice any consensus built prior to the edit and not much afterwards. I do notice the editor stating "it is more fitting to describe the Biblical Hebrew and Modern Hebrew word as meaning Adversary instead of Accuser it is more definitively an contextually accurate". Seems as though such a statement shows POV because the context of the edit surrounds the difference between the generic term for satan (devil) which in truth is adversary and the definitive article or apellative Ha Satan (accuser).

The generic term in Hebrew is not capitalized and I would suggest the editor provide instances in biblical canon where שטן is capitalized. The source for the current revision being The Jewish Encyclopedia does not capitalize this Hebrew term in general connotation. The current revision of the article also shows cantillation marks for שטן, yet the reference is not Masoretic text so I don't see the purpose of using cantillation. I suggest a stronger consensus in the matter and taking cue from an earlier discussion regarding these definitions within the Satan talk page, that a more robust listing of definition in multiple languages be added to the page e.g., Hebrew for satan in its generic form and proper definitive Ha Satan meaning "accuser" as well as Latin and Greek definitions. Research into Latin and Greek's separation of the generic and definitive article should also be shown by an editor qualifying such edits. The context of the article embraces Hebrew primacy of the being and latter christian archetype, but only providing one Hebrew definition regardless of POV context paints the article in an adversarial light which is not the context of The Satan within Judaism thus the article portrays bias. This isn't the article known as "devil" there has been a separate wiki for the generic term related to satan. Blackson (talk) 07:56, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

The Haircuts listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect The Haircuts. Since you had some involvement with the The Haircuts redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you have not already done so. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 18:19, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

So long is done, need RM or just do it for Bingo

Thanks for initiating the RM for So long (AKB48 song). We need another one for Bingo, or go ahead and just do it as it's the same situation. -AngusWOOF (talk) 00:27, 11 March 2014 (UTC)

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re: National team

You said: "A player playing for his national team is at least as relevant as any league team."

Please point me to the guideline/policy which states this, and which states that mention of this is relevant for the lead section, which is the pertinent issue. Otherwise it's nothing more than your personal opinion. Per guidelines, the lead section is strictly intended to a summarize an article's most important aspects. Playing briefly or periodically for a national team is typically not going to fall into this category. In the case of Ales Hemsky the relevance of this information in the article's lead section should be discussed if it's to be included, because it is very clearly not one of the article's most important aspects. 173.212.80.159 (talk) 18:30, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

Common sense. In ictu oculi (talk) 19:15, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

OK, so I suppose I can safely assume that in not answering my questions or engaging in anything resembling a discussion, you have no argument. Actual common sense should tell you to read the guidelines before engaging in an edit war. 173.212.80.159 (talk) 20:53, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

I'm not "edit warring" - you removed it, for the moment your removal stands. You may find it helpful to register for an account. In ictu oculi (talk) 20:55, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

I have no obligation or requirement to register for any type of account here. How do you suppose that would be helpful to me? 173.212.80.159 (talk) 21:00, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

It would enable due credit to be given to your contributions prior to 22:49, 9 February 2014 In ictu oculi (talk) 21:02, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

I have no interest in "due credit". But it's nice to know someone has taken such a keen (though somewhat gratuitous) interest in my past contributions. 173.212.80.159 (talk) 21:32, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

The fact that the article is in poor shape does not reflect on the fact that a player's national team representation is a key aspect of an athlete's notability. You are completely wrong in this instance, 173. Resolute 22:18, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

It can be, but in this instance it is clearly not. My argument is based upon guidelines and it is sound. 173.212.80.159 (talk) 22:26, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

If you don't think a world championship and an Olympic medal are key facts about a player, then I would question your understanding of both the sport and Wikipedia's guidelines. Resolute 23:29, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

Goleta serial killings

I suppose you created the Goleta serial killings article. You are hereby invited to come back and take a look at what has happened to it since then. (That particularly includes studying its relationship to the Original Night Stalker article.) —BarrelProof (talk) 01:31, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for notification. In ictu oculi (talk) 06:49, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Honest (Dave Stewart and the Spiritual Cowboys album)

Hello In ictu oculi,

I wanted to let you know that I just tagged Honest (Dave Stewart and the Spiritual Cowboys album) for deletion, because the article doesn't clearly say why the subject is important enough to be included in an encyclopedia.

If you feel that the article shouldn't be deleted and want more time to work on it, you can contest this deletion, but please don't remove the speedy deletion tag from the top.

You can leave a note on my talk page if you have questions. Katrinamoris2014 (talk) 16:25, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

block

That new user who is trying to delete valid articles needs to be reported and blocked. She is a troublemaker, which is what blocking is supposed to remedy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Stephanie Bowman (talk • contribs) 16:35, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

Midrasha Tzionit

Yes of course, do you want me to sandbox the text for you? Although it relies heavily on their website, it's not actually a copyright violation as far as I can see. Jimfbleak - talk to me? 17:54, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

User talk:Jimfbleak, yes please, though actually a sandbox may not be needed, I've already found enough independent sources in Ukranian and English to pass WP:GNG, so for the sake of keeping history intact and for the new user who created it, would it be possible to recreate directly into article space? Though I don't mind a sandbox if it is easier. Either way. In ictu oculi (talk) 17:58, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

Honest

You moved Honest (album) to Honest (Future album) saying "other albums". Which ones are you referring to? Cause i can't find any. Koala15 (talk) 18:52, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

Please see Honest (disambiguation). Thanks. In ictu oculi (talk) 18:55, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

Merger of 1517 Hebron pogrom and 1517 Safed pogrom articles

Following your remark at the talk:1834 Safed pogrom#page title, you are welcome to participate in merger procedure of 1517 Hebron pogrom and 1517 Safed pogrom articles into Jewish communities during the 1517 Ottoman-Mamluk war. Discuss it at talk:1517 Safed pogrom#Rename.GreyShark (dibra) 21:58, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

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Indigenous peoples of North America

<snip> I have opened discussion here this is the appropriate place. In ictu oculi (talk) 13:45, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

Brothers Osborne

Why did you move this page? Nothing else on Wikipedia has the name "Brothers Osborne", so a qualifier is redundant. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 22:20, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia also has an article Osborne Brothers. In ictu oculi (talk) 22:21, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

Which is a similar, but not identical name. Each is hatnoted to the other, so that should be sufficient. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 22:24, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

Okay we'll see. They're still very WP:RECENT so let's watch what happens in the way of mislinks and page views over the next couple of months. In ictu oculi (talk) 22:27, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

offensiveness of Sarcee

there's no cite on it yet, but it's right on Tsuu T'ina Nation, see here.Skookum1 (talk) 03:57, 22 March 2014 (UTC)

These are false statements since they are in the plural; I won't comment on his talkpage for obvious reasons; I went there to see if anyone had scolded him for his regular putdowns and insults:

• The concensus is in the guidelines.
  • HIS guideline, as CambridgeBayWeather has pointed out in numerous responses at the RMs, don't even back up his position, and his position is in direct conflict with various others which he and his friends continue to ignore.
  • there was a discussion once on whether the ethnicity should have precedence for the name, and it was decided it shouldn't."
• There was a discussion on NCL involving a handful of editors and nowhere else. He means HE decided it wasn't; I've looked through discussions at NCP and NCET and Talk:Ethnic groups and of course IPNA, there were many people dissenting from this in those places....
• What's in Wikipedia:RJDLI strongly applies, as do these three points from WP:Wikilawyering:
  • Abiding by the letter of a policy or guideline while violating its spirit or underlying principles;
  • Asserting that the technical interpretation of the policies and guidelines should override the underlying principles they express;
  • Misinterpreting policy or relying on technicalities to justify inappropriate actions.
• Might as well see about adding another standard lawyer's tactic to that: attacking a witness/defendant on character, not on facts or actual logic, with any exaggeration and half-truth par for the course.Skookum1 (talk) 04:33, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

Jack Spratt (fictional police detectives) listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Jack Spratt (fictional police detectives). Since you had some involvement with the Jack Spratt (fictional police detectives) redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you have not already done so.

• Note: I reversed your move, as it was given without reason, and you have an incorrect plural anyway. Choor monster (talk) 21:29, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

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Singing Got Better

Hi, I'm sorry not to get back to you... life has been busy, between work and family! I see that you have moved it back to Noraega neureosseo - I agree that this is the correct title to have, thanks for moving it! Having looked at it more (perhaps I should have done that originally lol) then the English title should be a redirect to the original-language title, sorry about that! Regards, PhantomSteve/talk|contribs\ 11:21, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

Goodo, thanks very much for the message. In ictu oculi (talk) 11:22, 26 March 2014 (UTC)

Talk:Comox_people#Requested_move

You participated in the move request for Comox. I wanted to let you know I've put forward a more comprehensive move request. Whether you're supportive or not, your input would be appreciated given your past participation.--Labattblueboy (talk) 03:28, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

• It's not comprehensive unless Comox, British Columbia is back on the table, either added to that RM or via Move Review because of the just-closed one there. Towns as primarytopic in such cases are clearly covered by WP:CSG#Places and a host of similar cases currently on the table have been decided in the town's favour.Skookum1 (talk) 03:37, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

Sections

Re sections on dab pages and thresholds for separation, I'm not sure about guideline specs offhand, but I appreciate their value. I've seen so many dab pages over the years that I'm substantially working off broad memory, but I realize that doesn't help inform community standards. Certainly, the primary goal with a dab page is to expedite finding a desired page. Part of that, in my mind, includes a layout that balances compactness with structure, and I do think a dab page that can be seen in its entirety without scrolling has value, acknowledging that that threshold varies by browser. I'll try to resolve my understanding a bit better and get back to you. Cheers. ENeville (talk) 17:16, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

Trying to address some of the differences in formatting on Footprints in the Sand (disambiguation), since I presume that's our case example, first off, there is always variation in discretion, of course. As far as MOS:DAB guidance, the sections section (if you'll pardon me) does advise against "very small sections", and for similar sized sections (though I don't exactly get that part, even if I do it that way unconsciously). So, I would definitely avoid sections with only one entry, and probably also two, maybe three. Also, note that one only needs just enough description to distinguish entries, which contributes to short lines, which contributes to compactness, which limits required eye travel, expediting locating. Perhaps I'm on a tangent in specifics, but it speaks to the fundamental purpose, which is good to bear in mind. Rereading your question, and trying to track your intent, I'd say sections of more than around ten entries become harder to parse visually, and those can separated first with simple bold headings. If scrolling is required, then a table of contents becomes useful, requiring section headings. Again, scrolling varies by viewer, but that is a distinct performance threshold, and it's not addressed in MOS:DAB. Maybe it's worth putting wording to that effect into the guidelines? ENeville (talk) 18:36, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

By the way, music dabs sometimes seem to have esoteric issues, because readers may have only auditory knowledge with which to identify a desired article. Footprints in the Sand (disambiguation) isn't yet ideally formatted in that regard, in my mind, lacking genre info to distinguish. But, work in progress... ENeville (talk) 18:42, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

In case we are using it as an example, I tried to tighten it up a bit. ENeville (talk) 19:00, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

Many thanks. Agree with the esoteric issues comment. In ictu oculi (talk) 17:44, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Marek Jastrzębiec-Mosakowski

The article Marek Jastrzębiec-Mosakowski has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

This mostly unreferenced stub-biography feels WP:GNG, WP:BIO and Wikipedia:Notability (writers).

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:46, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus, I'm not too fussed, but I do wish you hadn't used a template to tell me. Will see what pl:Wikipedia:Poczekalnia/biografie/2014:04:01:Marek_Jastrzębiec-Mosakowski brings. Cheers In ictu oculi (talk) 17:43, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

I thought about leaving you a personal note, but the template does convey all the related info. I am fine waiting to see what pl wiki discussion will decide, but please note pl wiki has next to no criteria for notability; for example they have nothing equivalent to our Notability (writers), and the AfD discussions there are often closed after two or three people invent a new temporary consensus, different from what it could've been if the discussion attracted another group of editors :< So unless the pl wiki editors turn out some sources I missed (possible but rather unlikely) I don't see how this bio passes our current criteria. For the record, I would support changing N to say that authoring a single non-self published book makes one notable, but in the past consensus has been against this.--_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:38, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

The article was kept, but I don't think pl wiki discussions are of high quality, as seen here. The argument for keeping it was due to a suggestion (but not a hard rule) that all Polish scholars with habilitation are notable. This is not a criteria valid on en wiki per WP:PROF. I really wish we could just get a consensus at WP:AUTHOR that publication of any non-self published book is enough to warrant an article. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 07:55, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) I'm concerned that both habilitation, and being a published author, could be setting the bar too low; and they are both tangential to what the general notability guideline says. The GNG gives us a sound basis for writing good content - substantial discussion of the subject by independent sources. bobrayner (talk) 21:03, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

Photo transfer request

Hola. Can you please transfer this photo for local use and availablilty in Viet Wiki, for use in the Tran Le Xuan article ? Thank you! Nguyễn Quốc Việt (talk) 04:35, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Unfortunately it isn't copyright free, it has to be done by the original uploader. In ictu oculi (talk) 06:52, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

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re your addition to NCET

I've been trying to find out the provenance of that table; when I saw it on WikiProject Ethnic groups it didn't have the "preferred" and "unambiguous" claims on it, because of all the 5h1t flying I haven't had time to look into NCP to see who added those words there; I asked on the NCET talkpage, very politely too, and get a resounding silence as an answer; so given the way the indigenous names RMs have been closing - stripped of "people" for 95% of cases or more - it seems high time that that came out of there, and the related passage on NCL about people=language such that people must be disambiguated also should come out; "try and change the guideline" I was smugly told by one of my usual opponents; but we already have consensus across RM after RM after RM...... including many support votes pointing to TITLE and MOSDAB and elsewhere, including NCET even before you added that table....... so I'm in mood to launch a discussion in an arena where I'm snubbed when not directly insulted, but re this...what "no consensus" is she talking about?

How many RMs closed and votes cast explicitly laying out the ways that NCL is in "error", for one thing, and also endorsing NCET as a valid guideline, despite some in "that faction" wanting to pretend it's not valid because only two editors worked on it even though it was a direct lift from NCP. At this point, it's not a matter of figuring out who added those two terms, but of simply removing them per all the discussions that have taken place that conclusively prove that those two terms shouldn't be in that guideline; consensus has already spoken loud and clear. There's no point in me trying to work on NCET or take part in NCL discussions; I'm the unwelcome guest at the party and currently an attempt is to get me booted out the door.....trying to achieve consensus with people who ignore not just other guidelines but also people pointing out that their claims are wrong even with respect to NCL is rather pointless.

From my experience with the Green Party and other groups long ago, I learned that "consensus" is really code for "a veto of one", or in this case or one, or two, of five, of people who won't listen to reason in the course of resisting change to their ideology or agenda. I'll be starting a list at IPNA, something like WP:CANLIST's listing of standalone town names with no dabs per WP:CSG#Places, listing all the standalone titles....old and the many "new" ones (most were originally standalone until NCP rewrote itself and went on a tear...). I think if it was you who reverted that back there'd be a lot less fuss than if I tried to revert it myself; I've already been through one edit war with Uysvdi, and it got ugly fast.Skookum1 (talk) 15:21, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for note, don't have time to work on it at the moment. Best discuss on Talk page and see what others say. Good luck In ictu oculi (talk) 15:23, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

The talkpage is being stonewalled by Kwami and Usyvdi, who targeted me in an ANI currently unfolding, very hypocritically concerning her own treatment of me and Kwami's endless direct insults and putdowns, along with a general pattern of obstructionism that Floydian and CambridgeBayWeather and others have called them on, not just on indigenous titles but also at town-RMs. Have a look when you get a chance, especially at my final section there, which is a manifesto on how far off the rails Wikipedia has gone re indigenous titles since the days of the "old consensus", which I've also been meaning to try and write up and codify; which had more than only a handful of linguists-only working on it as is the case with NCL...there this line:

Where a common name exists in English for both a people and their language, a title based on that term, with explicit disambiguation, is preferred for both articles, as with Chinese people and Chinese language.

is original research and POV, and view stats on various "language-people pairs" as they call them, conclusively show that the languages are not an equally PRIMARYTOPIC as that guideline and its proponents and endlessly repetitive incantations in oppose votes on the RMs constantly maintain without ever acknowledging the many posts about why the PRIMARYTOPIC should not have disambiguation at all; I tried to raise this with Uysvdi about that guideline's inconsistency, she evaded my point by pretending I was talking about TWODABS which she at least does say is not called for in that guideline.....well, given that above sentence it is..... but as always instead of answering to questions asked, they either repeat themselves again or as on the NCET talkpage respond with silence; which to me is not just AGF but the voice of ignorance on the one hand, and refusal to discuss anything I raise, even though in countless copy-pasted oppose votes by Kwami on the RMs, calling for general discussion and a closure of the RMs and calling me "disruptive" (he's been ignored, and his insults and derisions along with those of others are also ignored while I'm the one facing an ANI as a form of BAITing to draw out my usual lengthy responses so others can tell me to shut up etc....or else....). The one-sided nature of this victimization I'm bored with and don't mean to bother you with it, but you carry more weight and respect than I am ever granted and I know you know I'm an intelligent person with cogent arguments, not "ridiculous" and "idiotic" ones and that I'm "not capable of proper discussion" etc.....where else could this be taken? Hauling these issues to RfC or something like that?

Damn, more procedure to attain the obvious, or as with the St'at'imc etc RMs last year and the "FOO people"-"FOO" RMs underway and also like the hyphen/endash business re BC regional districts a while back........I see a lot of these people doing very little substantial work and spending most of their wiki-energy on procedure and guideline-mongering....and something very much like hatred when not explicitly hatred. I came back with the intention of creating and expanding various articles only to be confronted by obstinacy and derision. And threats of official sanction if I don't learn to write in short, single sentences; complex matters cannot be detailed out via a Coles Notes mentality or style.....TLDR is an insult to me, but I'll leave that aside except to say that it's used as an excuse by people, including closers, to not listen to the relevant points presented......

The Squamish clusterfuck will have to be revisited, and it seems Haida people too, which alone of many BDD did not move, declaring no consensus even though the oppose votes were of the same pattern as debunked and outvoted elsewhere, but with town articles being undabbed and the notion that indigenous peoples' archaic/obsolete names are competition for PRIMARYTOPIC now being disproven re Shishalh/Sechelt and others....ultimately the town article will be Squamish and the category will be Category:Squamish, which was very wrongly made the indigenous category title to replace the long-standing diacriticalized Skwxwu7mesh titles; in the meantime I have articles to write, Cassiar Gold Rush, Chief Whattlekainum, Tsetsaut (currently that's only about the language, which should be at Tsetsaut language and more - getting back to various history articles in desperate need of expansion and correction and citation, and starting stubs to enable importation of IPNA content from other-language wikipedias.....and more; but am finding my time and energy spent defending myself against ongoing attack and derision and now faced with yet more procedure from minds that are anything but encyclopedic and more concerned with so-called wikiquette and protocol and procedure than content or validity. And who are doing their utmost to see me thrown out of wikipedia because I'm in their way.....

You're a busy man I know, thanks for reading this; many would not and critiques of others' agenda and editing behaviour are called NPA, while open and vicious NPAs are made regularly as part of the game.....There's another thing like what I wrote on the NCET guideline somewhere, also in a collapse box, but re this endless TLDR harrassment see here and my comments on the ANI.....I'd rather build wikipedia with good content and correct titles than have to answer to such repetitive and pompous things such as "the community tires".....so who's that "community"? Many editors know I'm good source of information and in fact a rather good writer on-point with issues, guidelines and research, they'e part of "the community too"...elsewhere and repeated in copy-paste opposed votes from JorisV there's "we have policy", using the royal "we" for the small group that wrote NCL as if they were all of Wikipedia, citing a guideline, which as explained above and elsewhere, is at extreme variance with what other guidelines say...and which is not "policy" as Floydian and others have observed in response.

About this "the community is tired" from-on-high pronouncement, I'm part of Wikipedia too, and me I'm tired of the bullshit and repetitive opposition and instruction thrown up against me, but it's clear to me that people who are challenged by big words and complex points won't and can't read what I say, and make me the issue of RM and CfD discussions rather than even attempting to try to understand what I am spending so much time (even with speed typing it's time-consuming) on the matters I raise.....instead of closing RMs and CfDs against me simply because it's me, making an editor the issue instead of the topic/content.....that's against the rules, too isn't it?

Thanks for listening, if you did.Skookum1 (talk) 16:09, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Dora Vasconcellos/Vasconcelos

Greetings from Amsterdam. I wrote an article about a composition (A floresta) by Villa-Lobos and encountered Dora. There was nearly no information, but I found a page on the internet probably by the Brazilian government or something like that. You can find the page linking on the link in the Dutch Article. The second link shows a photo of the happy couple. Bye, Ceescamel (talk) 17:29, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

User:Ceescamel thank you, I have added the link to the en.wp article. In ictu oculi (talk) 23:28, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

Wikidata Linkup Request

Hi! Can you please link the Central Intelligence Office article with the corresponding Viet lang article here: http://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ph%E1%BB%A7_%C4%90%E1%BA%B7c_%E1%BB%A7y_Trung_%C6%B0%C6%A1ng_T%C3%ACnh_b%C3%A1o. Thanks again!

Renaming

Hello, there. What about Belzec Trial?Hoops gza (talk) 19:23, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

Yes, go ahead, it is fully spelled in English sources. In ictu oculi (talk) 19:26, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

Would this song be of any use on Wiki?

This song. The song is deplorable, but it may be of use in such articles like the North Vietnam section of "Sino-Vietnamese relations", or an article on propaganda. Nguyễn Quốc Việt (talk) 20:19, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

Deplorable musically I guess, as a bit of Socialist pastiche, but not so bad. Does it pass WP:RS as a standalone article? I don't see why it cannot be placed in Sino-Vietnamese relations however I have added it to composer Đỗ Nhuận's works. In ictu oculi (talk) 20:22, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

Slight change in the White Album move discussion

The proposed move of The Beatles (album) to The White Album has been altered slightly, to the simpler White Album. I'm letting you know in case you'd like to review your vote. Dralwik|^{Have a Chat} 01:04, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

Help with bios in Draft space?

Hey, In ictu oculi. You previously helped by adding some sources to Tom Braunlich so that it could be moved back into article space. Do you have anything more to add to any of the pages at User:BOZ/Draft pages? BOZ (talk) 03:18, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

Inspector De Luca

Thank you for your comments (and other contributions!) to this RM discussion. I had been following the pattern set by our Inspector Montalbano articles, and maybe it was a mistake to do the TV series page before a character/book series page, but I'm really not familiar with them, having only seen the BBC broadcasts. Anyway, thanks! Swanny18 (talk) 11:58, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
PS: I'm having XP issues at the moment, so I may not be able to contribute too much at present; my apologies! Swanny18 (talk) 12:00, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

Red Easter eggs

Greetings. I've thrown this page together, but I thought it might interest you and benefit from your expertise. In particular I thought the painting of Mary Magdalene holding an egg was interesting. Perhaps you can add some links and context? It's not a subject that is in my wheelhouse. Thanks. Candleabracadabra (talk) 18:18, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

Sorry have seen them often enough but no particular knowledge, would be a relevant fork I think. In ictu oculi (talk) 03:59, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

Mark Pauly listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Mark Pauly. Since you had some involvement with the Mark Pauly redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you have not already done so. BDD (talk) 16:37, 10 April 2014 (UTC)

disambiguation confusion

You recently made this following statement which I don't understand.

• Those who disagree with the current status of WP:DISAMBIGUATION should ideally launch a RFC to change what the guideline says so that it says that we disambiguate against titles rather than what it now says, which is topics. However those who do not disagree with the guideline and are simply saying that Inspector De Luca (novels) are not WP:PRIMARYTOPIC in English should note that judged by Google book sources the novels are given more English-language print source attention than the Italian TV adaptation. In ictu oculi (talk) 11:43, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

You claim that the WP:D guideline currently says we disambiguate against topics. I don't see the word "against" anywhere at all at WP:D. What do "disambiguate against titles" and "disambiguate against topics" mean? What I see WP:D saying is that we disambiguate ambiguous terms - terms which refer to more than one topic on Wikipedia, and which don't have a primary use per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. --B2C 23:51, 10 April 2014 (UTC)

this is a normal preposition to use with this verb In ictu oculi (talk) 03:16, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Sleepless Night (Shinee song).jpg

⚠

Thanks for uploading File:Sleepless Night (Shinee song).jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Sfan00 IMG (talk) 14:45, 19 April 2014 (UTC)

Latin music (genre)?

Hello in ictu oculi! Something's been bothering me for a long time and it's the definition of "Latin music". Right now, "Latin music" redirects to "Latin American music", yet Billboard, RIAA, and even the Latin Grammys have a very different definition of "Latin music". The former two's definition of a Latin album, for example, is any recording that has 50% of its content in Spanish regardless of where the music originates from, which is why artists from Spain and even Italy got awards just for having Spanish records. The Latin Grammys expands on this definition by including Portuguese-language recordings as well, though they mainly focus on Brazilian music and rarely artists from Portugal are nominated. Heck, they even have a category for Best Flamenco Album even though that music is from Spain. Last night, I was watching the Latin Billboard Music Awards and I noticed the number of Italians that were there. Il Volo and Andrea Bocelli got an award just for recording their records in Spanish. So I'm conflicted. On the article for "Latin American music", I have written "As a genre in the music industry, "Latin music" is used to describe any Spanish or Portuguese-language genre including those from Spain and occasionally Portugal, yet I do not know if that justifies its inclusion there if a separate article is needed. What do you think? Erick (talk) 02:57, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

Hi Erick, umm. I actually thought en.wp was following something along the Latin Grammys line, so am a bit surprised to see that redirect. Portugal/Brazil, Spain/LatAm have considerable muscial overlap so if we are following a division by continent that does seem problematic. However Spain and Portugal still require their own articles and treatment, imho. In ictu oculi (talk) 18:02, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

Yeah I was thinking along the lines of making an article called "Latin music (genre)" which deals more about how it is described as a popular genre rather than just focusing on Latin America and elaborates on why artists like Julio Iglesias are considered to be Latin singers. I'm a little confused what you meant by the last part though. Erick (talk) 19:05, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

Erick, sorry, missed replying. I mean that Latin music (genre) probably is a needed article. Stating that Music of Spain Music of Portugal require their own (sections) of popular music was stating the too obvious to be stated, and I can't see now why I did state the obvious... Cheers. In ictu oculi (talk) 01:15, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

Alright I can start with a draft when I have time. Erick (talk) 01:22, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

May 2014 disambig contest: let's do it again!

Greetings fellow disambiguator! Remember back in February when we made history by clearing the board for the first time ever, for the monthly disambiguation contest? Let's do it again in May! I personally will be aiming to lead the board next month, but for anyone who thinks they can put in a better effort, I will give a $10 Amazon gift card to any editor who scores more disambiguation points in May. Also, I will be setting up a one-day contest later in the month, and will try to set up more prizes and other ways to make this a fun and productive month. Cheers! bd2412 T 18:48, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Rose Batiste

The article Rose Batiste has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Notability far from clear

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. PatGallacher (talk) 01:52, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

Kind wishes

	The Working Wikipedian's Barnstar
	For your tireless work at organising articles containing Vietnamese names. 131.111.185.66 (talk) 18:59, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

In ictu oculi, I am sure you have seen the recent discussions at Talk:Sarah Jane Brown. Due to the actions taken by certain users there, I have lost faith in those that maintain Wikipedia and I am therefore deciding, once the matter has improved, to withdraw from editing.

Before I go, though, I wanted to send you a final message. I recognise that we had huge differences in opinion on the talk page of an article and I do not believe that we will ever agree on the matter. I want you to know, however, that I have seen your editing elsewhere and I am both grateful and admiring of your work. I would hate for you to think that I have a low opinion of you solely because of our problems at one previous article.

In recognition of your work, I am presenting you with a barnstar. This relates to the extensive time you have spent improving the names of Vietnamese articles.

I wish you all the very best in your future as a Wikipedia editor. 131.111.185.66 (talk) 18:59, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for the note. Good luck with your studies. In ictu oculi (talk) 19:21, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

Talk:Sarah Brown

You are involved in a recently filed request for arbitration. Please review the request at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case#Sarah Brown and, if you wish to do so, enter your statement and any other material you wish to submit to the Arbitration Committee. Additionally, the following resources may be of use—

• Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests#Requests for arbitration;
• Wikipedia:Arbitration guide.

Thanks, 131.111.185.66 (talk) 03:39, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

The link doesn't appear to work - in any case I'm not too bothered about the title, I object more to the two editors using personal attacks on editors simply stating WP:TITLE policy, it'll fix itself eventually. Cheers. In ictu oculi (talk) 03:44, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, In ictu oculi. I had to post it temporarily on the talk page because the main page is protected. It should hopefully be copied over very soon. The request for arbitration concerns the conduct of editors (including what you mentioned), not the article name itself. 131.111.185.66 (talk) 04:30, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

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Deletion guideline for community centers?

Hey man, long time no see. I just accidentally hit enter without typing a message. Anyway, is there a deletion guideline for community centers? I'm looking at Muslim Unity Center which is a community center in Michigan. The article was created by a representative for the center itself so it includes the obligatory Youtube videos and mailing list postings being passed off as reliable sources. Beyond that, there are also listings on commercial websites which the center or someone affiliated with it surely created on their own, like the profile at pluralism.org. I was wary of nominating it, though, as there might be some sort of guideline that community centers are automatically notable like embassies. Do you know how to approach this? MezzoMezzo (talk) 04:17, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

Hi. Wikipedia:Notability (local churches and other religious congregations) is only a failed guideline proposal, so I don't know. WP Religion might have someone who knows? I'd look there. In ictu oculi (talk) 04:27, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

(talk page stalker)

It would already be covered by WP:GNG anyway, which requires substantial coverage by independent sources. If a source was mostly written by somebody affiliated with the Center, then it's unlikely to be a good foundation for a neutral article. Assumptions that everything in some class has "automatic notability" lead to mass creation of very bad articles from lists & gazetteers. bobrayner (talk) 11:20, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

Hello User:Bobrayner, do you think that in this case the article would be AfD material? I had a feeling but I wasn't totally sure. MezzoMezzo (talk) 12:14, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

Apart from the selfpublished stuff, there are a couple of seemingly independent sources such as this page, although each has its flaws, so I think it's borderline. It could be argued either way at AfD, although personally I'd veer towards "delete". bobrayner (talk) 13:43, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

Sovereign

You can listen to it on iTunes radio if that is you cup-of-tea.HotHat (talk) 04:19, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

Vietnamese dynasties

Hi iio - a recent discussion here ended with the decision to lower-case 'dynasty' in article titles for Chinese dynasties. I think it would be good to bring consistency to Category:Vietnamese dynasties in the same way - what's your opinion? Colonies Chris (talk) 13:40, 11 May 2014 (UTC)

Colonies Chris. Hi, I don't feel strongly, but following the China decision I would now be inclined to think the same. I saw the original discussion but stood back as wanted to see which way it would go. If you propose this at WP Vietnam I would support. In ictu oculi (talk) 13:48, 11 May 2014 (UTC)

OK, proposal made. Colonies Chris (talk) 13:55, 11 May 2014 (UTC)

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My apology

Thank you for accepting it. You are a gentleman (or gentlewoman). [et in arcadia ego] Error: {{Lang}}: text has italic markup (help). Si Trew (talk) 15:48, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

ANI Notice

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding reason for discussion. The thread is Personal attack removed with RPA template reverted by Omnedon.The discussion is about the topic Wikipedia talk:AT. Thank you. —В²C ☎ 18:46, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

Request per WP:NPA

For future reference, and without any implying anything about the past, I hereby request that, per WP:NPA, you not comment about contributors (including me) in a manner that may be construed as an attack (not complementary), on article and policy talk pages. Thank you. --В²C ☎ 20:29, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

Also, I would like to point out this clarification at WP:NPA#What is considered to be a personal attack?:

• Criticisms of, or references to, personal behavior in an inappropriate context, like on a policy or article talk page, or in an edit summary, rather than on a user page or conflict resolution page. Remember: Comment on content, not on the contributor.

Please note that there is no distinction made for criticisms which are accurate. That is, a criticism about personal behavior made in the context of a policy or article talk page is a personal attack, even if it's totally accurate. There are good reasons for discouraging even accurate criticisms of personal behavior on policy and article talk pages, and I hope you understand and appreciate them. In any case, thank you for taking this into account in your own behavior in the future. --В²C ☎ 23:04, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

Please read the unanimous message you had from 8 editors above. Secondly, re the section you have pasted above "inappropriate context, like on a policy or article talk page" from NPA, when your behavior (e.g. the "fucking", "bullshit", and other behavior) is already on that Talk page then repeating the reminders that others have given is not an inappropriate context, it is the appropriate context because that is where your behavior is taking place. In ictu oculi (talk) 23:40, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

That's not what WP:NPA says. If you have an issue with someone's behavior, take it to an appropriate context, like their talk page, WP:ANI, etc. The policy or article talk page is never an appropriate place to criticize others, even if the criticism is about behavior on that page. Just because we often let each other slide on that doesn't mean it's okay, or good for the project.

In that particular case, my inappropriate use of language had occurred days before your critical comment, and I had not repeated it, nor engaged in any other problematic behavior since. Dredging that up anywhere, especially there, served no purpose other than to disparage me. If that's your aim, just admit it. At least to yourself. --В²C ☎ 00:12, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

As above - Please read the unanimous comments of the other editors above - there was no NPA. And if you misbehave on a Talk page comment will be made on the Talk page. If you want to query this query this with any of the editors who already commented - which didn't include me. In ictu oculi (talk) 00:21, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

For the record, I have now politely and respectfully requested that you not criticize anyone or their behavior, including me or my behavior, on any article or policy talk page, and I have explained why. I had not made such a request prior to your most recent criticism of me at WT:AT, and that may have been a contributing factor in the related ANI discussion. I also did not cite that bullet above from WP:NPA in the ANI discussion because I had not noticed it before the ANI closed.

If this pattern of WP:UNCIVIL behavior continues, despite this request, I will pursue actions per WP:DR as appropriate. However, I will not criticize you or your behavior on an article or policy talk page - you can be sure of that. --В²C ☎ 00:33, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

I have no dispute with you, and am not interested in having one. I see you have taken this interpretation of NPA to 3 other user's talk pages, so it seems wise to centralize at WP:NPA's Talk page. In ictu oculi (talk) 00:48, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

Great. If you have no dispute with me, then please do not criticize me or my behavior. But if you must, please do so first on my user talk page. If we can't resolve it there, then we can seek outside help. But please let's not display any dirty laundry on Wikipedia's article/talk pages, okay? Thank you! --В²C ☎ 01:52, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

Born2cycle, as above the 4 User Talk page discussions you initiated have already been collected Wikipedia talk:No personal attacks#Clarification sought. Please continue there, thank you. In ictu oculi (talk) 02:59, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

Case request declined

The arbitration request involving you (SarahBrown) has been declined by the Arbitration Committee The comments made by arbitrators may be helpful in proceeding further. For the Arbitration Committee,--S Philbrick(Talk) 01:00, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

User:Sphilbrick, fully agree - although not fully familiar with all the details of that article/incident, looks clear that Arbcom's decline was correct. Thank you for notification. In ictu oculi (talk) 01:11, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

NPA

You're a better man than I am, Gunga Din. Omnedon (talk) 03:36, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

Adoption in vietnam war

Is this article a bad translation? Not sure what to make of it. I thought you might be interested in it or the related deletion discussion. Thanks for any insights you can offer. Candleabracadabra (talk) 21:23, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for heads-up, notable topic but covered by Operation Babylift better. In ictu oculi (talk) 02:26, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

Moving Swansong

Hi. Please don't move articles that don't need to be moved, like Swansong. There is nothing wrong with it being where it is, as there is no other article about "swansong" (see WP:DAB). There is also no other album named "Swansong" on Wikipedia, so disambiguating it with both the artist name and "album" is completely unnecessary. I have undone your move. In the future, if you think an article should be moved, bring it up on the article's talk page first. MrMoustacheMM (talk) 18:37, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

Hi, thanks for your message. But in the case of obvious WP:MOVEs, they can be moved and if any one objects, as you did, can be reverted. But in this case I see it has been put back to dab by another user - seriously please look at the phrase "his swansong" in Google Books. The fact that the main article is at the alternative Swan song does not mean that Swansong (Carcass album) should be put over the base space. The criteria for WP:PRIMARYTOPIC are that a subject should be not just the most common use but more common than all the other uses. The Carcass album is barely mentioned in Google Books, around 20 results, but "swansong" with the original meaning gets 1000s. In ictu oculi (talk) 22:47, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

Multiple moves

Hi In ictu - sorry for the multiple move reverts. I don't typically troll your contribs, but I saw the reversion someone made of the Swansong page, and so I had a look to see the history, and came across several other pagemoves that I felt went against policy. No hard feelings, I hope - I'm sure it seemed like piling on, but that wasn't the intent. Dohn joe (talk) 23:28, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

I have put in RMs at Talk:The Calm Before the Storm, Talk:Desideratum, Talk:Strategem to add (album) in each case and redirect to dab list - in each of these case Google Books and usage related to other topics in en.wp articles indicates that there is no primary topic, and if there was it wouldn't be (album). In ictu oculi (talk) 01:18, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

Just for the record.... I don't find your actions WP:DISRUPTIVE in general. I do think that sometimes you can be a tad...enthusiastic about what you see as clear shifts in policy, or particular policy interpretations. I think you do a decent job of bringing things to WP:RM rather than make unilateral moves, especially when a policy is first questioned (e.g., the many FRMOS RMs you ran over the past couple years.)

So, along those lines, I would request that you please bring to RM any title changes that are either 1) dictdef-type titles (e.g., Desideratum), or titles that differ from others because of added punctuation (e.g. Love?). As we've seen, these are not uncontroversial moves, and support has gone both ways in RMs. Maybe we can determine what current WP consensus is on these issues. Last request - please keep them as separate requests, so that each one can be evaluated on its own merits. Hope you take this in the spirit it was intended - I do appreciate much of the work you do on WP - especially in content creation. Dohn joe (talk) 16:29, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

Thank you, I know my editing is not remotely disruptive, but I am glad to see yourself disassociate from talk page activity such as this. I take the temperature of what is an isn't covered by WP:MOVE from the barometer of previous moves. In the case of a !, or a few similar ?, what's clear is that there isn't a clear consensus, yet. On dictdef, I don't see Desideratum as a dictdef, but we'll see where that heads with current RMs. More generally you may or not agree we do have a problem with song/albums in (a) the accumulation of completely non-notable and non-encyclopedic and (b) not even released material - a problem films and books for example don't have. In ictu oculi (talk) 16:44, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

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Proposed deletion of Hung Up (Paul Weller song)

The article Hung Up (Paul Weller song) has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Fails WP:NSONGS as there is not enough third-party information available to expand beyond a stub.

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

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Thanks for notification, with the attached sources should be okay. In ictu oculi (talk) 16:56, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

Talkback

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Talkback

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BAP (German band)

Can you fix your move proposal at Talk:BAP (German band)? Anthony and I had an edit conflict so now the move is going in the opposite direction. EdJohnston (talk) 05:21, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

Swansong (album)

Now moved with the closer effectively having a casting vote and no explanation of why. Is this worth a move review? --Richhoncho (talk) 04:52, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

Second thoughts, let it go. --Richhoncho (talk) 04:54, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

Your comments would be welcome

at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Bible#Page move request for Sirach. Dougweller (talk) 11:46, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

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Infanticide

Apologies. Next time don't hesitate to provide edit summaries. I don't mind the common fixes or spelling mistakes, but whenever the content has been changed I expect from others that they should provide edit summary. Sometimes a user makes 5 or more edits to the article that affect the content. In that case I would like them to provide summary of their edits even in 1/5 edits. Just a friendly advise so that no one else will revert you like this. OccultZone (Talk) 02:27, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, I didn't bother with a summary on a simple date change, but then I didn't notice it was a DYK article. Thanks for putting the new correct date back. Cheers. In ictu oculi (talk) 02:31, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

WP:PLURAL

I'm trying to add a section to WP:PLURAL at the end to put in writing what we've been discussing. Give it a look and edit it to make it better, please. Red Slash 21:38, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

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The Disambiguator's Barnstar

		The Disambiguator's Barnstar
		The Disambiguator's Barnstar is awarded to Wikipedians who are prolific disambiguators. Thanks for your hard work and efforts on disambiguation field! Myxomatosis57 (talk) 12:56, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

I'll second (disambiguation) that. —BarrelProof (talk) 15:17, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

Sheamus

Any thoughts on Sheamus? My personal gut instinct would be to think that it should redirect to Séamus. I also notice that the article doesn't have a hatnote. Someone made an undiscussed disambiguating move of the article today, but it was reverted. —BarrelProof (talk) 15:06, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

Unnamed EP

Hey, just wanted to let you know that the full title of that EP is "Unnamed EP", not "Unnamed", so I have moved its article back to the correct location. MrMoustacheMM (talk) 05:38, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

Primary topic

Can you clarify what you meant here? What is the 'lesser half of WP:PRIMARYTOPIC'? The closer of the first move discussion must have been reading WP:PRIMARYTOPIC very literally with the assumption that his hands were tied. What's hard to figure out is what sense he was reading into it. Thanks, EdJohnston (talk) 03:01, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

Done that, thanks. In ictu oculi (talk) 03:09, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

Still puzzled. 65% is an absolute majority of all the page views. Surely that satisfies the numerical definition of primary topic, unless there is some other consideration. EdJohnston (talk) 03:54, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

Yes it, just (at least leaving out past), satisfies the first/lesser of the 2 PT requirements. In ictu oculi (talk) 06:55, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

Moves to names with diacritics

Hey IIO, what's the situation with moving biographical articles to titles with diacritics nowadays? An editor just asked me to move a couple of articles on my talk page and I'm not sure whether it'd be more appropriate to direct him to RM. Thanks. – filelakeshoe (t / c) 08:15, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

Hi Unless there's a special issue such as a change of nationality, stagename or a very unusual letter the RMs basically ended with Talk:Dominik Halmoši. I'd need to look at the specific bios. The wording of one of the guidelines remains ambiguous. In ictu oculi (talk) 08:20, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

I just had a look, both clearly covered by WP:HOCKEY guideline, just got missed by accident I expect. In ictu oculi (talk) 08:27, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the pie

It was delicious. Hope all is well with you. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 16:57, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

Recent moves

Hi In ictu - your favorite follower here. :) With a request - please do not move a title just to add disambiguation, while leaving the previous base name to redirect. This is against WP guidance, and doesn't make sense. If the problem is the article at the base name, then it does no good to leave the base name pointing to the "wrong" article. If on the other hand the base name is the "right" article, then it goes against WP policy and practice to disambiguate just because. An example of the one is Alise, which could plausibly redirect elsewhere than the album. But you had left Alise redirecting to the album, as I recall, which leaves titles in a state of flux for someone else to notice and fix. You are inconsistent in this practice. (For example, Lo Mejor is now a dab page, but Shinwa still points to the EP.) Let me know if I'm not making sense. Thanks! Dohn joe (talk) 21:18, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

Also, as I went going through, I noticed a bunch of moves to add artist/band names to article titles when the artist/band name is not actually part of the title, so I reverted. Just because it appears on a CD cover does not make it part of the title. I would wager that the vast majority of album cover feature the artist's name somewhere... Dohn joe (talk) 21:58, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

You're just adding to the number of pointless RMs. In ictu oculi (talk) 23:38, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

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Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Pass a Method

Care to weigh in on this WP:Sockpuppet investigation investigation? I'd hate to see the case closed with no action. People need to start taking the WP:Clean start policy, which is very clear about what Pass a Method should not be doing, more seriously. Flyer22 (talk) 06:02, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

39 (Queen song)

The song has an apostrophe at the front of the title ('39, not 39). Could you correct your move please? -mattbuck (Talk) 07:52, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

User:Mattbuck, sure, no problem In ictu oculi (talk) 07:53, 18 June 2014 (UTC)

Music titles

Please stop making up album titles, as at Billy "Crash" Craddock Sings His Greatest Hits. I have notified you on multiple occasions that this is improper. It goes against WP:OR and WP:DISAMBIGUATION, for a start. If you feel disambiguation is needed, use parentheses. As the guideline says, it is not natural disambiguation to manufacture a name. Dohn joe (talk) 23:55, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

I wish you wouldn't use language like "making up", when we have Neil Sedaka Sings His Greatest Hits to claim that Billy "Crash" Craddock Sings His Greatest Hits is "making up" a title is unhelpful. In ictu oculi (talk) 01:26, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

Neil Sedaka's album is a different album, with a different, but similar, title. I don't see the relevance of the comparison. Dohn joe (talk) 02:35, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

Btw - I'll retract the "making up" statement in this case, as it does appear that the title you moved to does appear in a minority of sources. It was my error in not confirming. I hope you can understand my reaction, however, given the other album titles that you did make up by synthesizing the artist/band name and the true title just because they appear together on the album cover. I'll try to be more careful in the future - hope you will as well! Dohn joe (talk) 01:49, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

You shouldn't be using "making up" in any case. In ictu oculi (talk) 01:58, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

Misspelt article name change

Sorry to bother you, but when you moved the article "The Secret (EP)", you moved it to "The Secret (Austine Mahone EP)", which you added an e to Austin's first name, when it is supposed to be spelt as "The Secret (Austin Mahone EP)". I corrected it now, but please remember to spell the artist's name correctly when moving articles related to music. IPadPerson (talk) 11:58, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

Sorry about that. User talk:IPadPerson Thanks for fixing it. In ictu oculi (talk) 12:02, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

JSTOR

In the short term, let me know what you want from JSTOR, and your e-mail address, and I'll send what I can find to you. John Carter (talk) 17:08, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

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Speedy deletion nomination of Trigga tha Gambler

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Rote Lippen soll man küssen

Rote Lippen Soll Man Küssen? Soll man? German singers would record "Rote Lippen soll man küssen". I don't know how closely we have to follow a source that doesn't know it. - The German article is no help, because this title is not mentioned. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:49, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Unitarianism

Without doing some reading, I can't judge whether the latest edit to Unitarianism is correct or not. I'm sure you'll see the edit and make a determination, but I don't understand the edit summary ("regarded by..."). What did he/she mean by that? CorinneSD (talk) 19:04, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Leo Zeitlin

Resolved In ictu oculi (talk) 04:30, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

Move of V.O.S to V.O.S. (Korean band)

Hi,

I saw that you moved V.O.S to V.O.S. (Korean band), but I'm not really sure why. It seems unnecessary to use parenthetical disambiguation, since I don't think there is any other article with the exact title "V.O.S". Also, you changed the name from being spelled without a third period to being spelled with a third period. While I personally don't know what the correct spelling is, since the Korean Wikipedia article uses "V.O.S" without a third period, I'm guessing that is the right spelling. Unless you are sure the band is spelled with a third period, I think it should be at "V.O.S". Was it perhaps instead your intent to change the redirect page V.O.S. to redirect to the disambiguation page Vos? If you intended to do that, I would agree with doing that, but I don't agree with the change you actually made. I think V.O.S. (Korean band) should be moved back to V.O.S. Calathan (talk) 04:56, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

I would take the view that the absence or presence of the third . is not enough to distinguish the Korean boy band from anything else on VOS. Maybe it would it we were speaking about very well known topic in English sources, but this is a name that occurs in Korean text. In ictu oculi (talk) 05:01, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

I'm not following you at all. The changes you have made don't help anyone find other pages, and just put the Korean band at an incorrect title. Currently, anyone searching for V.O.S. or V.O.S still ends up at the band's page. Anyway, I think people are unlikely to type V.O.S without a third period unless they want the Korean band, and anyone who does leave off the third period by mistake can just be referred to the disambiguation page with a hatnote. Right now, there aren't any other articles titled V.O.S, so the band should be at that page. Again, I think a hatnote is the right way to let people who leave off the third period by mistake find the page they were actually looking for. As I said above, I also think that V.O.S. with a third period should redirect to Vos, since that name isn't specific to the band. I'm going to go ahead and make that change. I'm also going to move V.O.S. (Korean band) back to V.O.S and add a hatnote to it, since I think that is a better solution to this situation than the change you made. Also, while I was typing this, I noticed you suggested an AFD on my talk page. I would be entirely fine with that . . . I previously removed a BLPPROD from the article, but I didn't do that because I thought it met the notability guidelines. So please feel free to start an AFD if you want to. Calathan (talk) 05:26, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

In reply to your comment on my talk page, I don't think your claim that "we don't disambiguation by missing dots" has any basis in the disambiguation guidelines. It is common on Wikipedia to have different pages with very similar spelling (for example Age, Agé, Åge, and Âge). WP:DISAMBIGUATION says to use natural disambiguation when possible, rather than using parentheses. Also, having the hatnote makes it easy for anyone to find the page they want if they end up at the wrong page. I think the changes you are suggesting neither conform to the guidelines not help anyone find the page they want. However, if you want to start a move discussion, then feel free to do so (though if you are going to start an AFD, then the title will be moot if the article is deleted). Calathan (talk) 05:46, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

Sources for Age, Agé, Åge, and Âge are in the Latin alphabet, 브이오에스 aren't. Anyway. In ictu oculi (talk) 05:50, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

Redirects

Hello. I've undid your blanking for Live (1982) and Live (1994 album). Please nominate it for RfD if you think the redirects should be deleted. Thanks. KJ ^{«Click Here»} 05:41, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

Done, thanks. In ictu oculi (talk) 06:11, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

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All the Best! RM

Hi,

If you really want me to, I'll close it; however, I would advise against it. The issue deserved to be heard, and the question at the heart of the RM was entirely legitimate. Withdrawl might be seen as an indication to opposers that you accept their strongest criticisms. Even though the RM might fail, it is (almost) always helpful to encourage discussion. The case of Hillary Rodham Clinton is the exception that proves the rule, and this issue has not reached the limit of absurdity to which her article was taken.

Take heart -- I know it must be difficult to follow the path that you do at RM, raising sound proposals that are so often and so loudly subjected to ridicule by a forceful opposition. In some cases, your RMs will succeed; in some, they will fail. Whatever the outcome, you are doing a service to the community in striving for reader recognizability. I often agree with you, and occasionally don't... but, in every instance, the questions you raise are important and interesting to consider in relation to policy and guidelines. Best wishes, Xoloz (talk) 17:59, 1 July 2014 (UTC)