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Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents
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Australian railroad IP

A series of IPs, of which 27.33.233.138 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) seems to be the latest, has been involved in creating articles about preserved railroad locomotives for a year now. (The IPs jump around Australia every few days, but are clearly the same person.)The drafts they submit through AfC are refbombed to get through review, but closer examination show that the refs don't actually satisfy the GNG. A typical example is Southern Pacific 5472. In at least two situations (Southern Pacific 5623 and ALCO Century 624), they've reverted merges done by AfD consensus. The IP's comments at AfD show they have no willingness to understand notability:

• Special:Diff/1184906202: It’s obviously notable but very underrated
• Special:Diff/1184725146: If it is first locomotive on SP to sport the Kodachrome livery, (which is what makes the locomotive notable for), then there's no reason to delete the article
• Special:Diff/1184725208 Besides its completely new y'know

The notability refbombing plus writing style (But a guy by the name of Dennis Mann had contacted OmniTRAX about a possible sale to sell the 4423 for its scrap value. An agreement was made, and Dennis Mann had wrote the check that was mailed to him... here) are a CIR issue already, but now they've moved into increasingly disruptive editing. The most egregious involves Southern Pacific 4450, which was deleted at AfD in 2022. They took it to RfU, using two different IPs to fake support; the request was turned down. They then remove the old request, edit the old AfD close to appear as a soft delete, and resubmit claiming it was soft deleted. That's not just a competence issue; that's actively malicious.

Courtesy pings: @Trainsandotherthings and Jay:. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 07:01, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

• As undeleter of Southern Pacific 4450, I'm at fault for failing to check the cumulative diff at the AfD. It would have shown how Delete was manipulated to Soft Delete. I would suggest re-deletion. Jay 💬 07:40, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

  I can't fault you - that kind of dishonesty is not something I've seen in this topic area. It's why I'm looking for a block and/or ban on creating drafts for this IP user. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 20:29, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

• This explains how even though I declined it as a hard delete, it got undeleted. If Jay agrees I think that Southern Pacific 4450 should be deleted due to fraudulent request. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 08:53, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

Since this was first posted, the same editor has now engaged in obvious sockpuppetry at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Southern Pacific Class P-8, pretending to be two different users which coincidentally both locate to Australia and have a strong interest in creating articles about Southern Pacific locomotives. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 21:55, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

I lack the time at present (check back with me in the next day) to provide diffs but I have noticed casual, unusual attempts to sock by this IP on their own drafts, but brushed them off as nothing more than eccentricities. However, following the behavior on the AfD, I think there is no doubt that this editor is a properly disruptive editor (albeit a very unsophisticated one). ~ Pbritti (talk) 04:54, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

I've tagged 4450 with a CSD G4. Lets see if it gets contested. TarnishedPath^talk 07:35, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

I've deleted it as an obvious G4. There also appears to be a Southern Pacific 4451... Black Kite (talk) 08:44, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

Tagged. TarnishedPath^talk 09:05, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

That 4451 really was a soft delete though. If a good-faith editor requests undeletion it could be returned. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 11:19, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

That's fine, as long as it's not returned to mainspace in its current state. To be honest, I would be surprised if anyone could claim notability for that particular random diesel loco. Black Kite (talk) 11:30, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

The long and short of it is that it isn't notable, not even close, but certain railfans (foamers, if you will) are obsessive about their favorite railroads and think everything must have an article just because they personally like it. I've spent more time than I like to admit cleaning up after this sort of thing on this website. To a casual observer, many of these articles might appear to meet GNG (and frustratingly, at least one AfC reviewer has defended their acceptance of these subpar articles). You have to look more closely and see the REFBOMBing with insignificant mentions and unreliable self-published sources to realize many of these subjects are non-notable. As there has been no action taken against this manipulative and obsessive IP editor, who in my opinion has gone well past the point a long-term block would be justified, the cleanup effort will have to continue even as they add more and more fuel to the fire. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 21:47, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

It is worth noting some of these are fine, such as Nickel Plate Road 757, which was created as a 2 sentence stub by the IP before being substantially fleshed out with proper sourcing by User:611fan2001, an editor in good standing (and who's work I can personally attest to the quality of). Most, however, should be reviewed for notability and likely need to be merged, redirected, or deleted. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 21:47, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

I've already put GE U25BE and EMD SD45T-2R, which are mere rebuilds of GE U25B and EMD SD45T-2 respectively, up for AfD after the IP removed my PRODs. Southern Pacific Class P-8 is already up at AfD. There are some others I missed that are already up at AfD. TarnishedPath^talk 23:45, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

Block proposal

I'd like to formally propose that the current IP 220.235.238.29 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) and any future IPs be blocked, and that any drafts they create be deleted. It's clear from this discussion that the person does not understand notability enough to produce useful articles, is not able to communicate usefully, and has engaged multiple times in deceptive behavior. That's a net negative to the community, and only a block will stop the behavior. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 03:38, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

• Support – the editor is persistently behaving improperly, failing to respond to many concerns, attempting to disrupt and game article creation/deletion processes, and there seems to be little to no improvement in behaviour at all. A waste of other editors' time. — AP 499D25 (talk) 03:56, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
• Support per the nomination and WP:CIR. TarnishedPath^talk 05:47, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
• Support per the nomination and per my previous comments in this thread. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 00:41, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
• Support per nom. I'm not a train guy but, as an outsider, I am seeing no basis for notability in many of the REFBOMBs drafts the IP puts forward. Their socking and GAMING is too much for me to think this is all accidental. Many of the IP's drafts are getting approved to articles despite clear deficiencies (perhaps a lamentable side-effect of the ongoing and very successful AfC drive). ~ Pbritti (talk) 04:48, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
• I disagree. I checked out Southern Pacific Class P-8 (AfD discussion). The book citations are genuine, and support the content based upon them. And checking the list of IP addresses and articles I find Norfolk and Western 2050 (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views), written based upon museum and magazine doco by a different IP address whose only apparent sin is to also be in Australia. Australia, well known rather big place. This is an egregious overreach, that tars any future Australian without an account who writes drafts about railways. And Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Southern Pacific 4450 was a consensus of 2 people, with a third only "leaning", about an article written in 2006 by none of these IP addresses. Black Kite that speedy was wrong. Look at the contents. The 2023 article isn't the same article being re-posted, and there are more sources in the rewrite and clearly doesn't match the "sourced only to one dude's self published railfan site" in the 2022 discussion. And not knowing that Lulu is a vanity press, which wasn't even cited by the original author of the draft, is something that clearly AFC reviewers are guilty of, too. So should we be banning our AFC reviewers, too, in this massive attempt to associate a whole bunch of articles and IP addresses and accounts with 1 bad actor? Uncle G (talk) 05:49, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
  • @Uncle G: While the geolocation of the IP jumps around, the behavioral pattern is very distinct, which makes me confident it is a single person. They focus on a very narrow subset of locomotives, continue editing drafts/articles after switching IPs, and often respond to themselves to fake consensus; the editor interaction is particularly telling. (115.64.191.187, which you mentioned above, has more than a dozen overlaps with the other IPs.) The drafts are refbombed to pass AFC, often with errors that indicates they don't actually have access to the source and are simply copying the citation from elsewhere. They have other behavioral tells that are obviously different from legitimate new editors (not revealing them here, but feel free to email me.) I am quite sure that any actual new editor editing railroad articles from an Australian IP would not be mistaken for this person. Pi.1415926535 (talk) 21:39, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
    • Then you are going to have to address my concern about the egregious overreach of "any future IPs" under this heading of "Australian", which you have failed to do. That's licence to block a whole country. And you should be reaching out to the AFC reviewers who let things based upon Lulu books pass AFC, as the problem there is that the poor sourcing actually got a pass when it should have been raising red flags. I did. Given Special:Diff/1185987251 then Special:Diff/1186025564 you should add your voice. Uncle G (talk) 10:17, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

      You're criticizing a proposal that no one's making. What anyone's talking about is WP:DUCK: dubious notability, ref-bombing, fixation on American locomotives of a certain era, geolocates to Australia. I don't think that translates to a licence to block a whole country. Mackensen (talk) 12:03, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

      Perhaps @Uncle G's concern is that when an IP address is identified that what is being proposed is that the IP address be indeffed and that would result in undue collateral damage? Rather I think this proposal is that this specific IP user who is clearly identifiable per WP:DUCK be blocked. Given the IP user changes IP address every couple of weeks, there's no reason for example that 30 day blocks couldn't be used each time an IP address is identified? TarnishedPath^talk 22:59, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

  • This is a rather absurd comment. This is a highly specific pattern of behavior and extremely narrow topic area within the area of trains (specifically an obsession with Southern Pacific) which makes it incredibly obvious these IPs are the same editor. Making nonsensical slippery-slope fallacies is unhelpful. Had you looked at the IPs, you would see they locate to Sydney and Melbourne exclusively, and had you fully examined the evidence or asked us, you would have noticed a clear and distinct pattern of behavior which makes it quite obvious we are dealing with a single individual. I am extremely disappointed you ignore all the obvious misconduct by this editor, from maliciously editing a closed AfD discussion, to sockpuppetry, to copyright violations [8], to misrepresentation of sources. Regarding your last point, a number of these AfC accepts were inexplicable and reflect very poorly on the reviewers in question. Above all, you are clearly rushing to scream "injustice!" without anywhere near a full understanding of the facts. I have been dealing with this specific editor for several months. Nobody here has associated this editor with a registered account, so please strike that false claim. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 22:45, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
    • One the contrary, I observed, as I said, one bad actor. But in addition, this is a quite pointed observation that you two bringing up the primary example of this as Southern Pacific 4450 (AfD discussion) above and making it how it is ignoring a consensus of 2 people — maliciously, as you've characterized it repeatedly now — is proven to be wrong. That article was created and edited by Insomniac186 (talk · contribs) in March 2006, and that was what you nominated for deletion, not something associated with these IP addresses. I've apparently looked into this better than you have, although at the time of your deletion nomination you should have seen its edit history too. This "malicious" ignoring of a 2 person consensus seems to be because you were 1 of the 2 people. And you aren't proposing blocking even just Sydney and Melbourne, which again is rather a lot of editors, but as clearly stated "any future IP" addresses used by an "Australian". Uncle G (talk) 10:17, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

      I'm not sure what point you're making here. We all agree that the original article wasn't written by the IP. What the IP did do was change the content of the AfD to make it look like a soft delete, then turn around and request undeletion, a bad faith act if there ever was one. The text between the two versions is not substantially different. Yes, he added a bunch of sources. Given the addition of a Diesel Era article missing the author, the title, and the full page numbers, I'm deeply skeptical. Mackensen (talk) 12:24, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

      Do you have so little understanding of how IP addresses work that you are incapable of understanding the same editor may at different times use different IP addresses, and IP addresses are routinely reassigned by internet providers? Are you also incapable of understanding that behavioral tells and editing overlaps can be used to conclusively prove different IP addresses are being used by the same individual? I suggest you stop now before you dig yourself into a deeper hole. I don't know why you're going on about things from 2006, I have never suggested the author from back then is related to the current situation in any way. I nominated that for deletion on the grounds of failing GNG, and it was deleted. The IP then falsely edited the AfD after the fact to instead say "soft delete" and tricked an admin into restoring the old article. That's all ok by you?

      And if we're supposedly looking into things, there were two delete voters in that discussion in addition to myself, the nominator, for a total of three. Please at least get the basic facts right if you're going to keep arguing with me. You are continuing to make a strawman argument based upon your belief that blocking a few specific IP ranges used by this editor is akin to blocking an entire country. Nobody is proposing to block the entire country of Australia, or entire cities in Australia. Seeing an administrator with this little understanding of IP ranges, or how to handle disruptive editors using IP addresses to edit, is very concerning and makes me question your fitness for the role. Instead of trying to argue with everyone here, maybe consider we're making a valid argument, and it is you that has created a false idea in your mind of what is proposed here.

      I also find it appalling that you think I'm supporting a block because I'm somehow upset that an article I nominated for deletion was recreated, rather than because this editor has broken policy in numerous ways. I suppose we can add WP:AGF to the list of things you don't understand. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 23:07, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

• 118.208.124.137 (and any other IPs who are the same person) should be severely warned for changing the close statement, and their future edits should be monitored. Jay 💬 06:11, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
• Support I know I'm a bit late to the party but this is clear disruption. Making articles about preserved U-boats because "it was the first to have the Kodachrome livery" is not only extremely lame but also quite disruptive, especially continuing to do so after being told to stop. I do agree that some of the articles that have been created are on notable subjects but their quality is nothing to push forward that idea. Cutlass^Ciera 15:35, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
• Support. I beg @Uncle G:'s pardon but I have to disagree. These articles give the appearance of being sourced, but they aren't. Take EMD SD45T-2R, now at AfD: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/EMD SD45T-2R. Pre-deletion version: [9]. Three books, including Jeff Wilson's 2017 Guide to North American Diesel Locomotives, which is a recent source from a reputable publisher. Cites an article in Diesel Era that appears to focus on the base model (EMD SD45T-2) and its derivatives. The first warning sign is that the article says nothing about how this rebuild differs from the base model, and I mean nothing. The second warning sign is that the linked railfan page mentions three of the sources: both Shine books, and the Diesel Era article. Those sources are also used on the EMD SD45T-2 article, as is Wilson. Wilson says nothing about the rebuilds except that some of them exist. The Diesel Era article devotes a page to the rebuilds, and it makes it clear that the changes were external and cosmetic. Not nearly enough difference to justify a separate article. It's clear that the IP editor doesn't have access to any of these references. I don't have access to the Shine books but I can't accept them on faith as sources without someone else endorsing their quality and what's in them. Are some of the topics notable? Probably. Southern Pacific Class P-8 (AfD discussion), in particular, is, but may need to be written by someone else. Mackensen (talk) 23:40, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
  • And yet the exact page numbers cited in Southern Pacific Class P-8 (AfD discussion) turned out to be right when I pulled them up and checked them. Maybe the railfan magazine is doing the heavy lifting with reading the sources. But neither of the magazine articles hyperlinked from Southern Pacific Class P-8 actually have any mentions of books at all. Uncle G (talk) 10:17, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

    The main thread of my comment has to do with the EMD SD45T-2R. I haven't done a detailed analysis of the sources for the Southern Pacific Class P-8. Inasmuch as the sources were obviously copied from Southern Pacific 2467 or Southern Pacific 2472, I hope that they're accurate. Mackensen (talk) 12:12, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

• support per nom--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 13:04, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

Can we get a closure on this thread now? It's been nearly one week since the block proposal has been made above, and there appears to be consensus in favour of that proposal. Regards, — AP 499D25 (talk) 01:01, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

Agreed. TarnishedPath^talk 03:49, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

• Comment, if this gets acted on ‎118.210.56.198 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is the IP address that the user has been using since the 18th of November. TarnishedPath^talk 10:42, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

Using edit summaries for a campaign

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

• 1.145.73.131 (talk · contribs · WHOIS)

seems to be using their edit summaries to promote some kind of campaign about blocking policy. Not a good idea? Bon courage (talk) 12:41, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

They're also adding the same text to their signature.[10] Interesting, can't say I've seen that before. — Czello ^(music) 12:51, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Sigh. Again. It's clear disruption, blocked. RickinBaltimore (talk) 12:56, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

What does the disruption consist of? Sweet6970 (talk) 13:05, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

During my time editing Wikipedia, my IP address has been subject to a range block 3 times to my knowledge. I am not convinced that the ‘remedy’ was proportionate to the problem. Sweet6970 (talk) 13:10, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Allowing campaign messages to be added to edit summaries is a recipe for disaster. Bon courage (talk) 13:17, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Edit summaries are to be used for well, summarizing an edit. Using the field for a "campaign" to complain about the way range blocks are used is disruptive, or for any "peaceful protest" for that matter as the IP stated is disruptive. RickinBaltimore (talk) 13:28, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

It is not what edit summaries are for, but I do not see how anyone is inconvenienced. I find a lack of edit summaries to be far more inconvenient. Is there some other way to complain about the overuse of range blocks? Sweet6970 (talk) 13:35, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

I barely use edit summaries at all, as long as they aren't lying about what they did in their edits they've given as much useful info in them as I have. Anyhow I've seen that IP before and don't remember them being disruptive at any time. Mach61 (talk) 13:36, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Editing summaries are for concise explanations of edits, not for campaigns to change practices or specific sanctions. This is just disruption of the encyclopedia to make a point, and their complaint can be pursued through normal resolution channels without clogging up edit summaries with complaints, Acroterion (talk) 13:41, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Just to be clear, I don't think either you or the IP should be blocked for edit summaries that are obnoxious, but not offensive. Take that as a compliment. Smallchief (talk) 22:30, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

What is the appropriate channel for a general complaint that range blocks are overused? And that IPs are generally treated like dirt? Sweet6970 (talk) 13:47, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Your best bet would be WP:VPP. But in many cases there is little alternative to a rangeblock where a vandal is hopping across an IP range, especially if their vandalism is offensive or related to BLPs. Anyone who is inconvenienced by an anon-only rangeblock always has the option of creating an account, of course. Black Kite (talk) 14:19, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Thank you. But range blocks do not always allow you to open an account – the first range block, which I experienced as an IP, prevented the creation of an account, and the estimated delay for a special request for an account was, as far as I remember, at least 3 months. Sweet6970 (talk) 14:24, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

That depends on the rangeblock - it is possible to rangeblock IPs and leave account creation open. Perhaps that is one thing that might help in many cases. Black Kite (talk) 14:49, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Is there any chance that policy would be changed so that all range blocks leave account creation open? Sweet6970 (talk) 14:59, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

It is normal practice already. Account creation is blocked when there is evidence of account abuse or serial sockpuppetry, usually with checkuser participation. Acroterion (talk) 17:28, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

In July this year, my IP address/range (I have a dynamic IP address) was covered by a very large range block which also blocked account creation, and which was set at 2 years. See User talk:Yamaguchi先生 - heading 2A02:C7C:0:0:0:0:0:0/30 This was eventually lifted by another admin, after comments by myself and others. (Yamaguchi先生 does not appear to have been active since July). I suspect that the range of the block covered everyone in the UK who uses my internet provider. So if it is normal practice to allow account creation, perhaps this should be re-emphasised somewhere? Sweet6970 (talk) 18:17, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

I think that's true for "hardblocking" (blocking edits by logged-in users). I'm not sure it's true of blocking account creation, which is a second setting. I sometimes leave account creation open on my rangeblocks, but not usually, and I have gotten the perception I'm in the minority for doing it at all. Maybe someone wants to run the numbers. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe|she) 18:18, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Why? Again, edit summaries can only be harmful insofar as they are intentional misrepresentations; I don't think the copypasta is having a large physical presence on-screen, because summaries are already truncated when displayed in page histories and the like. Bad block. Mach61 (talk) 18:05, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

If they start using AWB to make a bunch of minor edits for the purpose of spreading this message, that's one thing, but a handful of good faith edits with advocacy appended? Meh. Don't know that I agree with a block here. Smarter would be to write an essay and link to it wit ha smaller number of characters, though. We have a long-term admin who goes out of their way to append something like "This edit is not an endorsement of the WMF" to every single edit summary since FRAMBAN, and nobody has taken issue with it -- hundreds or thousands of edits vs. five in this case. Is it because it's shorter? Because this is only an offense a newbie can commit? Or because it depends on the kind of activism/commentary being done. (I'm not objecting to either one, to be clear). — Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 14:28, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

+1. Blocking was an overreaction. Levivich (talk) 14:47, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Seems like a death sentence for the crime of shoplifting. If this block is sustained, also block the Admin mentioned above for his "This edit is not an endorsement of the WMF" edit summary. Equal treatment under the law. Smallchief (talk) 15:00, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

The edit summaries are a minimal disruption to the encyclopedia so I prefer escalating consequences. I see the editor was advised on their talk page, and then swiftly blocked before any discussion. Okay, I have opened WP:ANI#Using edit summaries for a campaign about this. Bon courage (talk) 12:42, 17 November 2023 (UTC) The block followed 14 minutes later with this timestamp RickinBaltimore (talk) 12:56, 17 November 2023 (UTC) I appreciate all that the admins do to protect content and content creators. I do not really see this block as protecting content. Lightburst (talk) 15:28, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Err, the "discussion" was the IP saying they weren't going to stop doing this. Bon courage (talk) 15:34, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

I certainly do not see that they said they won't. Verbatum they said: So please fix the policy policy & practices. I have tried other routes with no success. You call it "abuse". I call it a peaceful protest. You cut off discussion and filed this report and then they were swiftly blocked. So it looks more like the start of a discussion and then an escalation by you and a block before this ANI discussion could begin. Lightburst (talk) 15:43, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Not really, especially when combined with their resumption of adding the summary to edits after this. "So fix it" is an ultimatum. Bon courage (talk) 15:47, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

(non-admin comment), Equal treatment under the law./Seems like a death sentence for the crime of shoplifting, they banned for less then 2 days, that's not really a 'death sentence', it's a minor inconvenience, the IP can just come back in a few days, and apologies or something. Babysharkboss2 was here!! (Shoot to thrill) (Play to Kill) 17:58, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

• It's annoying but are the edits bad? jp×g🗯️ 16:12, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

A 31 hour block is not a "death sentence." Acroterion (talk) 17:28, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Agree with Acroterion (and inappropriate use of edit summaries is a big problem). SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:24, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

So you would favor blocking the admin who always puts "This edit is not an endorsement of the WMF" in his edits? Equal treatment for equal crimes should be the policy -- whether a person is an Administrator or an IP. Smallchief (talk) 19:44, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Who does that? Bon courage (talk) 19:56, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Neither an admin nor a "he", but I assume Smallchief is referring to Yngvadottir. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe|she) 19:59, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Previous discussion about that signature. Schazjmd (talk) 20:17, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

thats interesting, especially that it shows it was brought up on two other separate occasions. Babysharkboss2 was here!! (Shoot to thrill) (Play to Kill) 20:36, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Yup, that's me (former admin, desysopped for an unrelated cause many years ago). I received an AN/I template linking to this discussion as the so-far only edit by My Kingdom for a hearse. The IP's edit summary notes are longer, and more polemical than mine, which I endeavour to keep within the bounds of WP:NOPOLEMIC or WP:USER or wherever the applicable policy is encoded. (I also fit in my disclaimer at the end of my edit summaries, which tend to be long because of my editing pattern, so as I said at the previous AN/I, if anything I believe the meat and potatoes of my edit summaries is more of an imposition on watchlist readers than the disclaimer.)

I'm glad this block is being discussed, since there is disagreement over it, but I won't weigh in on the merits except for reiterating that that edit note is a bit long. Yngvadottir (talk) 21:55, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Just to be clear, I don't think either you or the IP should be blocked for obnoxious and irritating edit summaries. Take that as a compliment of sorts. Smallchief (talk) 22:30, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

I would place's Yngvadottir's signature (not an edit summary) in the same category as references to death penalties and crimes - a bit over the top, but not sanctionable. Edit summaries are for explanations of edits, not for polemics. This is a tempest in a teapot. Acroterion (talk) 22:43, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

if I had a nickel for every time this has happened, I'd have two nickels, which isn't a lot, but it's strange it's happened twice. Babysharkboss2 was here!! (Shoot to thrill) (Play to Kill) 15:40, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

• Support block, do not support hyperbolic complaints about the block. Beyond My Ken (talk) 05:16, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
• Seems like overkill and a bad block. I think an apology is in order. PackMecEng (talk) 22:06, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

• Of course you do. Beyond My Ken (talk) 04:48, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

I think an apology is in order. AN APOLOGY?????? really? It's not so far fetched, and there's little need to apologize for. by now, the user is almost unblocked! Babysharkboss2 was here!! (Shoot to thrill) (Play to Kill) 16:01, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

• For what it's worth, this block seems like a textbook example of a punitive block to me. Those edit summaries, while obnoxious, aren't actually all that harmful, and even if I were to agree that they were disruptive, the IP should get a fair chance to respond to the ANI case and/or cut it out with the edit summaries before getting hit with a block, no matter the lenght.(Non-administrator comment) ----Licks-rocks (talk) 10:22, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

  I'd argue that chronically misusing edit summaries to make a WP:POINT is disruptive enough to earn a block. — The Hand That Feeds You:^Bite 15:00, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

  I'd say you'd still have to issue a warning first, and not one that is followed by a block in ten minutes. If this were a named user we would not be so eager to block, I don't think. It'd take a short discussion here at least before that block would be handed out. --Licks-rocks (talk) 09:35, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

• Not a bad block (in the way of, I don't think the block was issued in bad faith), but perhaps a bit quick with the fancy buttons. The IP made detailed comments that went unaddressed by both the filer and the blocking administrator, and somehow we've collectively decided to throw warnings out the window. EggRoll97 ^(talk) 07:02, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

User:Eurohunter and GA

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Back in August during a GA backlog drive @Eurohunter started a large number of WP:GA reviews and then abandoned them. That by itself is only somewhat annoying; reviews get abandoned all the time and nobody is an indentured servant. The problem is that multiple people have been asking them for months to complete the reviews, or at least state that they're unable complete them, so a new reviewer can be appointed. They have steadfastly ignored all these requests. It's inconceivable to me that they're not aware of the requests; they've been pinged many times, requests have been placed directly on their talk page (for example: Special:Diff/1183801017), and they are still actively editing. At this point, what they're doing has passed the point of being annoying and is into abusive and disruptive territory. They're deliberately holding up an important process and just giving the finger to everybody who is trying to get things moving again.

Some of the stalled reviews:

• Talk:Kwyet Kinks/GA1
• Talk:Elle Leonard/GA1
• Talk:Chuck Person's Eccojams Vol. 1/GA1
• Talk:Heart Wants What It Wants/GA1
• Talk:Besitos/GA1
• Talk:Las Reinas del Pueblo/GA1

I'm involved at this point, so I'm bringing this here. I think the right response would be to WP:TBAN them from the processes which rely on peer reviews, i.e. DYK, GA, and FA, in order to prevent this type of abuse from recurring, but I'll let ANI figure that out. RoySmith (talk) 15:34, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

@RoySmith: I noticed all the reviews, but I was focused on other areas. Some of them been unanswered by nominator and I have been waiting. I'm going to check the reviews now. Eurohunter (talk) 17:29, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

@RoySmith: I just answered for all mentioned reviews. Eurohunter (talk) 18:08, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

The reviews are mostly about citation formatting and archives, and at times vague ("there is a problem" without specifying). These do not form part of the GA criteria. I would be in favour of a topic ban on review processes unless Eurohunter clearly states they understand they should communicate better and they can explain what they should review on. —Femke 🐦 (talk) 13:41, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

@Femke: "they should communicate better" - I'm surprised now. I tried my best to do detailed reviews and fix minor fixes myself - I have been listing everything in review, and also I was explaining all the questions and issues as much as possible. Eurohunter (talk) 16:21, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

@Eurohunter: if you list everything, you will review more strictly than the GA criteria call for. This explains some of the friction you've had with various nominators. Can you explain to me you understand what you should not review on? —Femke 🐦 (talk) 17:13, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

@Femke: I don't force higher criteria, but what is the point to stick with GA criteria if you can easily make it above without additional effort? Ultimately we agreed, and the article was improved. I know GA criteria are lower than FA criteria and I not demand it. Eurohunter (talk) 18:01, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

Let's take a specific example, the review of "the heart wants what it wants". You did ask for links in citations to other WP articles, and for archives to be added. This is (boring?) work not required by the GA criteria. This can put people off nominating.

In the future, if you want to mention "extras", please let the nominator know it's optional, and not required for the review to pass. Can you confirm you understand these are optional and should not hold up a review? —Femke 🐦 (talk) 18:12, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

@Femke: It's actually good idea. Eurohunter (talk) 18:24, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

Sorry to be a pain here, but what does "it" refer to? Mentioning what is optional? Or requiring archives and links? Can you explain in your own words what you should not demand in a GA review? —Femke 🐦 (talk) 19:12, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

@Femke: No problem. "please let the nominator know it's optional" - it's good idea and article could pass without perform these tasks. Is this answer satisfying? Eurohunter (talk) 20:36, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

Is a TBAN really necessary to just assign the reviews to somebody else? Why can't somebody just say "okay, if Eurohunter doesn't want to finish these, we will assign them to someone else unless he does it in the next ___? jp×g🗯️ 04:27, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

It should also go without saying, but I may as well say it anyway: @Eurohunter: It's a massive pain in the ass if you leave review processes hanging for months. I mean, I've done it before too, it happens to everyone, and there's no shame in just saying "yeah whatever someone else can take over" -- I'd really strongly recommend you do this so that everyone isn't standing around with their thumbs up their pockets waiting for you to respond. jp×g🗯️ 04:31, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

On a process note, a couple of abandoned reviews were put directly back into the GAN list in mid-October, and others identified at the time (including 4 of the 6 RoySmith lists) that were not closed were shifted to second opinion status in October, so they have effectively already been assigned to others. CMD (talk) 05:56, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

I have to echo JPxG here. Reaching for topic bans when a volunteer is unable to do a particular task is not something I've seen in any of our other processes. And Special:Diff/1176325422 shows that actually someone did offer to take over the work, back in September. As JPxG says, why not let that happen? Uncle G (talk) 06:08, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

• The issue here is not failing to complete the reviews. The issue is digging in their heels and refusing to respond to literally months of queries (as far back as 30 August) from multiple people asking for status updates. All they had to do is say, "Sorry, I won't be able to finish this", but they kept refusing to do that. I only managed to get a response when I dragged them to ANI. RoySmith (talk) 16:02, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

  @RoySmith: It sounds like you can't do mistake, never. I had hope to finish them later but it turned out to be different. @RoySmith: @JPxG: I didn't know that I has to pass the process to someone else in formal way - I thought someone could take it just if they want to. If anyone is interested, you can continue these reviews. Eurohunter (talk) 16:21, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

• While the word "ban" sounds a little strong, let's be clear - the GA process is not part of the core, basic permissions of being a Wikipedia editor. And bad reviews are worse than no reviews, so there need to be some way to tell people doing bad reviews to stop. I haven't surveyed all of Eurohunter's work, so I hope I was just unlucky, but taking a look at some of these examples, these are not good reviews. With comments like "There is error in reference 3 and 31", it's nitpicking citation nonsense that isn't important and might not even be an accurate nitpick anyway ( whether to use "work" or "website" as the parameter type stuff - I'm pretty sure it all goes to the same variable at the end of the day for output). I don't doubt that Eurohunter is engaging with good faith here, but at some point, if an editor is doing something in good faith but poorly, they need to be told to improve or stop. Eurohunter, if you want to cleanup citation stuff for articles up for GA, that's fantastic, but just go do it then as a normal editor. That isn't really the core purpose of a GA review. And if you can't get to a review in time, that's fine, but don't say "someone else can continue these reviews" and make it other people's problem. Proactively withdraw and procedurally end the review yourself, maybe with an apology for wasting the nominator's time. This is something you can do directly. SnowFire (talk) 00:23, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

  @SnowFire: I could try to finish reviews but at this poin't I may retire them without problem. Eurohunter (talk) 20:36, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

• I would agree with JPxG and Uncle G (as I usually do) if this were just about tardiness. But these are really bad GA reviews. Looking at Talk:Kwyet Kinks/GA1, we start off with an argument about whether to call the band, which is from England, an "English band". Eurohunter spent three months, on and off, pushing their personal stylistic opinion that "British" is the correct term. The issue isn't just that they called this out, but how confident they were in their objective correctness. (Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Biography § cite note-1, while about bios, can be generalized as the correct answer here: "it depends".) Confident incorrectness becomes a recurring theme in this GA review, because next up we have a nine-comment back-and-forth over whether it's correct to summarize a review in the present tense. It is, and I would expect anyone who writes English at a professional level to know this. (I was taught this in 8th grade when learning to write essays.) I gather that English may not be Eurohunter's first language, which is all well and good, but I don't know, I'm reasonably fluent in French, and I can't imagine ever going over to frwiki and asserting with such certainty that a particular stylistic matter is incorrect.
  Talk:Chuck Person's Eccojams Vol. 1/GA1 is similarly unpleasant to read. We have Lazman321's repeated attempts to get a clear answer as to what it is Eurohunter wants him to say about the next and previous album. The underlying point there is reasonable if a bit pedantic—I'd say it's right on the line of what I wrote WP:Content that could reasonably be challenged to discuss—but the communication issues displayed are, like everything else, unfair to the nominator. (This was also an issue with Kwyet Kinks—resolved faster, but still a communication problem.) There's then a lengthy kerfluffle about the verifiability of [11], which should have been resolved when Lazman said The two sources used next to reference 28 confirm its legitimacy, but was prolonged, to a hair-pulling degree, by Eurohunter's insistence that Lazman convey this the exact way Eurohunter wanted, for no reason beyond personal preference.
  That's just 2 GA reviews. I'm not saying Eurohunter necessarily needs to be TBANned, but the apology above for tardiness falls far short. Eurohunter needs to stop demanding that other editors meet their personal stylistic preferences at GAN, needs to work on communicating their concerns clearly and in plain English, and needs to listen to GA nominators' explanation of their decisions, especially when those explanations may come from a place of greater familiarity either with the norms of the topic area or with professional-caliber English writing. If Eurohunter can commit to all of that, then I think we can tentatively be done here. If they cannot, this should probably be a TBAN. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe|she) 01:25, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

  @Tamzin: I think you are right but it isn't 100% of what follows from what. TBC Eurohunter (talk) 20:38, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

  I've had issues more related to general communication with Eurohunter too. I've always assumed it's a combination of a language barrier and a general sense of combativeness? I've fielded questions at WP:ALBUMS/WP:SONGS for many years, but over time I've slowed down on fielding his questions. They always start off as open ended questions, but then it always feels like he's badgering you because he didn't like your answer. Or they just get tense for no reason. I'm trying to dig up some examples from over the years. Conversations like this conversation and this conversation come to mind. I don't really know if anything is actionable here, I'm just saying...I can certainly understand the sense of frustration editor's feel with their interactions with him at least. Sergecross73 msg me 02:02, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

  @Sergecross73: I often ask questions that no one asked. These are few examples of open questions without simple or exact answer and yes, I often ask additional questions. I don't know how it could be a problam. In the second case there was problem with communication but I tried to explain it in best way I could and I had hope it was clear enough. I tried but ultimatelly I'm not satisfied how ddiscussion went. We wspent more time asking was is the issue than to slove the issue. Eurohunter (talk) 20:36, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

  I don't fault you, or anyone, for asking questions. I fault you for being rude to people who voluntarily take the time to field your questions. Sergecross73 msg me 23:35, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

  @Sergecross73: I don't think so but what do you mean exactly? Eurohunter (talk) 14:30, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

• Eurohunter claimed "I had hope to finish them later but it turned out to be different." One might think that they could reply to six requests to engage on their talk page, or to two pings in a discussion they falsely claimed no one mentioned them in, or to several pings in the GA reviews themselves, across a span of several months.
  Let's be honest here: whether they want to admit to it or not, they took on many reviews in the backlog drive because they wanted the barnstars; they found out rather quickly that they had bitten off more than they could chew, and instead of asking for help/trying to work through the consequences of their own actions, they decided that the best course of action was to forget about the whole matter, childishly ignore anyone who pinged them about it, and equally childishly whine that "It sounds like you can't do mistake, never" when people grow tired of their selective hearing.
  My feeling is that Eurohunter doesn't much like the GA process anymore, and that a TBAN won't achieve much. I would, however, support a formal warning over WP's civility policy ("Editors are expected to be reasonably cooperative, to refrain from making personal attacks, to work within the scope of policies, and to be responsive to good-faith questions"). ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 21:01, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
  • @AirshipJungleman29: I think saying "falsely claimed" is too much. Sometimes I have 30-50 notification a day and 10 notifications "on hold" and suprisingly or not other things in life. It's eazy to say if you look outside. But even if you look at page Wikipedia talk:Good article nominations#Abandoned reviews there is no single ping for me - and I reffered to this case. "because they wanted the barnstars", "instead of asking for help/trying to work through the consequences of their own actions, they decided that the best course of action was to forget about the whole matter", "childishly ignore anyone who pinged them about it" - these parts are your own narration. I don't see the point in saying this. I don't think that is needed. I can say that I just took many GA reviews then things started to slither around with reviews or there was no action from nominators side, then I burn out and had no time and no power to return to them so I kept postponing it until later and later and we end up in this discussion which I didn't expect. At this point I can retire without question. Eurohunter (talk) 20:36, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

    The very first word in Wikipedia talk:Good article nominations#Abandoned reviews was a ping to you. CMD (talk) 02:19, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

    @Chipmunkdavis: It is plain link which will not result in ping anyone. Eurohunter (talk) 14:30, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

    Plain links creates notifications, this is mentioned in WP:MENTION. CMD (talk) 16:09, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

    @Chipmunkdavis: And you think I can never miss click once among dozens of notifications evry day/hour? If you watch 10 pages and are active once a month - it could work then. Eurohunter (talk) 13:28, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

    (not sure why I'm getting involved, but...) @Eurohunter: I'm confused by your mentioning of "notifications". This isn't about the watchlist. At the top right corner of your screen, there are "alerts" (the bell). When someone mentions you by 'ping' like I did here or maybe they revert your edit, you get an alert. For me, I actually get an email too because that's what I have selected in preferences. If you're getting 30-50 notifications per day, either you have some very odd settings, or you're talking about something completely different. From the sounds of it, you're only looking at your watchlist. I've been around more than a decade and have thousands of articles on my watchlist, but I only get a "notification" (or alert, rather) maybe a couple of times per month. Do you maybe need some help figuring out your alerts so you won't miss things? Grk1011 (talk) 15:58, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

    @Grk1011: Pings are loaded to alerts but I check both alerts and notices. I just checked alerts and there are actually are two pings so I had to miss click them and others without visit and check because I don't remember them. Usually if there is ping for me I'm going to check it especially if someone would write "please give me some reason to not do that". I would answer for it if I see but for some reason it didn't happen. I proably clicked "Mark all as read" without knowledge. That's why you use user talk page if there is something imortant. Eurohunter (talk) 16:10, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

    You were pinged twice in that discussion, Eurohunter. I don't see the point in saying this oh cool, I do, so I'm saying it. Your next sentences essentially say the same thing anyway, so I don't understand why you're unhappy. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 12:31, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

    @AirshipJungleman29: Your version is emotionally enriched, rather negative or pejorative while my is factual. I think I know better what I have done at the time and what was my condition at the time and my thoughts and plans. You just cut one thing from a whole. In this way we can deny everything. I know many people think this way but that's how it is. In other words you could say that Max Verstappen is a bad driver because he crashed once in race and ruined it - apart from the fact that he won dozens of races, won three world champions and is one of the best drvers in history. Eurohunter (talk) 13:28, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

    Wait... Aren't races unscientific social constructs? EEng 21:15, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

• This user has done some good work in similar processes, like the FL List of songs recorded by Basshunter for example. Perhaps, they could be let go with a strong warning that this behavior should not be repeated. The particular reviews in question should be assigned to someone else. If they end up in a similar pickle again in the future, then there would be a stronger justification for a TBAN.--NØ 21:18, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
  • @MaranoFan: I think that this behavior should not be repeated is pretty obvious. Eurohunter (talk) 20:45, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

I am not an expert on this, but to justify that the sanction is not necessary, you will have to show that you see the mistakes you made. Blaming the nominators works against this. Avoid doing that.--NØ 21:49, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

• Summary: I see it may became very long discussion, we can go into many questions and answers. I always want to sort every and half thing out in detailed way. It depends on compexity of thread but people often summarzise threads while they need to be addressed separately so at this point in some cases I would need to analyze and answer for every sentence separatelly. I will ask simply how to solve this problem? What should I do? Eurohunter (talk) 20:56, 23 November 2023 (UTC)
• Conclusion: I started GA reviews then things started to slither around with reviews or there was no action from nominators side. There was more reviews than just these discussed above. Then I burn out and had no time and no power to return to them so I kept postponing it until later and later and we end up in this discussion which I didn't expect. At this point I can retire without question. Eurohunter (talk) 20:59, 23 November 2023 (UTC)
  • You appear to be using the word "retire" in a non-standard way above. Nobody is looking to make you "retire" in the normal sense of the word, i.e. stop editing Wikipedia altogether. There's plenty of ways to be helpful other than doing GA reviews. If you solely meant "retire" as in "drop/finish the GA reviews", then fine, although it would help your case if you would assert you don't plan on doing more GA reviews in the future, given that you totally ignored some rather blunt feedback above, and I don't think it's a good idea to continue to do more GA reviews unless you can show you've read the criticism, understand it, and taken it to heart. SnowFire (talk) 05:22, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
    • @SnowFire: I mean to retire just from GA reviews, which actually happened some time ago if we look at this discussion. Instead of it I have plan to nominate few articles to GA or FA but it will take yet long time. Eurohunter (talk) 14:30, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
• As the person who started this thread, could I suggest somebody close it now? It has served its purpose of getting Eurohunter's attention. I don't see anything else productive happening here. RoySmith (talk) 16:16, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Apparent WP:NOTHERE gaming for WP:ECP

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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See this gaming for WP:ECP.

He is clearly WP:NOTHERE.[12][13] Aman Kumar Goel ^(Talk) 18:35, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

Holy userpage batman! I edit my userpage a bunch, but OMG! Yeah, this is pretty open and shut. Babysharkboss2 was here!! (Shine on you) (Crazy Diamond) 18:37, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

HOWEVER!! looking at their talk page,you failed to tell them that they're being discussed here on the ANI. Babysharkboss2 was here!! (Shine on you) (Crazy Diamond) 18:39, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

I had. I was on my way to notify the user by the time you typed the above message. Aman Kumar Goel ^(Talk) 18:43, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

It's a shame that non-mainspace edits count towards the edit counts for the various protections etc. Canterbury Tail talk 18:56, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

I tend to see things like that as a lack of automated bureaucracy usually being better than the bad-faith behavior it prevents—a structural expression of assuming good faith, to a reasonable extent. Remsense聊 00:45, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

The gaming's already been dealt with - see rights log, usertalk before blanking, and discussion at WP:PERM. —Cryptic 19:10, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

User:Yann

Yann, a well-respected Wikipedia editor, has been adding YouTube clips with Israeli subtitles to Disney Channel sitcom pages such as Bunk'd, Raven's Home, and Secrets of Sulphur Springs (both English and French versions). Yann argues these clips visually represent the shows for newcomers. However, I am concerned about these additions, as they provide little new information and could be irrelevant to most readers. I am suggesting a review by administrators, a discussion with Yann, and alternative suggestions to not only improve the articles, but also suit both sides. — Preceding unsigned comment added by BrickMaster02 (talk • contribs) 21:18, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

@BrickMaster02: (Non-administrator comment) As the text in the red box near the top of the page states, you must notify the user in question on their talk page. I have done so for you this time. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 21:25, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

(non-admin comment) WP:YTCOPYRIGHT may be a problem, and a serious one. Narky Blert (talk) 21:30, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

Note: AIV report by BrickMaster02. Charcoal feather (talk) 21:46, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

BrickMaster02, nothing we like more than hunting for diffs and userlinks!

• Yann (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Bunk'd (Diff ~1186171449)
• Raven's Home (Diff ~1186224476)
• Secrets of Sulphur Springs (Diff ~1186221613)

Files that were added:

• c:File:קיקיוואקה- המחנה החדש - קן לציפור - Bunk'd- Learning the Ropes.webm
• c:File:הבית של רייבן -חופשה באירופה - Raven's Home.webm
• c:File:הסודות של סאלפר ספרינגס - תחרות כשרונות - Secrets of Sulphur Springs.webm

@Yann, why are these videos so tiny? 256×144 when the original is 1080p.
These videos were shared by https://www.youtube.com/@DisneyChannelIsrael which is verified on YouTube. Some obvious possible outcomes for this discussion:

• Commons decides the license is unintentional/accidental and deletes the files. (have they already discussed DisneyChannelIsrael?)
• English Wikipedia decides the license is unintentional/accidental and disallows using these files.
• Commons blurs the subtitles or crops the video so they're no longer part of the picture. (and hopefully imports the 1080p version in the process..)
• We say "meh" and just allow this.

But the comment BrickMaster02 made on AIV that these clips "do not add anything new to the articles" is obviously false. They add a lot: they portray the kind of humor, visual style, show various actors, their voice, and help to identify the actual show: if you've watched the clip, you may recognize the show when it happens to be on. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 21:48, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

Okay, but I personally don't really see a need for that, as no other articles for these shows feature clips that give a visualization. And yes, I know that claim is not really allowed on this site, but that's what I was leaning towards. BrickMaster02 (talk) 22:11, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

Something to consider for the case of Disney Channel Israel is where the IP actually sits. If Disney Channel Israel is owned by a subsidiary of Disney (such as The Walt Disney Company EMEA, whose website is linked from [14]), I'm not exactly sure what entity the IP sits in, or what the IP-sharing licensing agreement is between firms. But would those agreements permit the subsidiary to enter into a worldwide agreement that permits for re-use of Disney IP? Most of these sorts of structures are very careful regarding where the IP can be re-used, and I'd frankly be a bit shocked if Disney EMEA is intentionally putting these sorts of things up under a CC attribution license through merely its Israeli station. — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 14:22, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

If we have an article on a TV show and manage to get an episode of that TV show on Commons, then yes of course we should include it. It's... the subject. Anyone can nominate them for deletion on Commons if they want to, but that's purely a Commons issue and not one that needs to be discussed here. Likewise, I see no reason not to upload the higher resolution versions, but that's also something that can be handled on Commons. Characterizing adding videos of a TV program to articles about that TV program as vandalism is the only thing inappropriate here. — Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 22:13, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

I will admit labeling them as "vandalism" was another huge mistake on my part, and I really should've cooperated better, instead of what I did. BrickMaster02 (talk) 22:15, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

@BrickMaster02: At the very least, I expect an apology.

I maintain that these short extracts are valuable to the articles. If removed, I would like to a valid reason. Yann (talk) 15:33, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

@Yann, I'm afraid this is accidental. For the live action series (all three examples that were given here are live action) an argument could be made that Disney wants people to meme the crap out of them and live action footage doesn't lend itself too well to the creation of a new work that could compete with the original. But animated series like The Ghost and Molly McGee [15] and Hamster & Gretel [16] are also Creative Commons, so anyone could reuse the characters seen in those clips, print them on t-shirts, make their own spin-off series or webcomic, etc.
While one might argue that trademarks could also protect those characters, that's a risky idea. (and would Disney trademark every minor supporting character?) I'd argue that Disney shouldn't worry about the copyright expiration of Steamboat Willie because that Mickey Mouse looks outdated anyway. But the current versions of characters being freely licensed? No, I don't think so. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 11:13, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

In a similar case Wikimedia France reached out to Ubisoft. Ping @Shai-WMIL and @Ruti-WMIL: any chance Wikimedia Israel could reach out to https://www.disney.co.il/ ?
Discussion on Commons: c:Commons:Village pump/Copyright#CC-BY license on YouTube videos by Disney Channel Israel. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 11:40, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

There have been several discussions on Commons about free license by big companies. Some files were deleted, but current discussions (also [17], [18]) lean towards undeletion. Please come to Commons if you want to discuss this.

It is significant that Disney Channel Israel only released short extracts in small resolution. IMO this is a good marketing strategy. People interested will go to Disney Channel to watch the whole series. Yann (talk) 15:42, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

Please come to Commons if you want to discuss this. Thanks for the invitation, but that probably wouldn't be good for my health. The resolution is not "small" in my eyes. The resolution you uploaded is, but 1080p is available from the source. While your argument could hold true for live action, animated series are completely different. If you believe this is legit, start selling lunchboxes with Spongebob and Disney characters printed on them and the CC BY license on the bottom. You'll be a millionaire. Do you remember Marco Verch? He did it on purpose, but things will go down about the same way with this.
Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)#Spongebob Squarepants is now freely licensed! — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 09:57, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

I doubt Disney's Israeli affiliate has the right to relicense the work. In practice this would mean that Disney has stopped selling rights to broadcast these works to television channels, which would seem a very unlikely thing for them to doing with their back catalogue. I imagine if you ran a cable channel and wanted to broadcast these without permission they would lawyer up big time. Secretlondon (talk) 17:06, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

At this point, this doesn't seem to be a chronic/unmanageable behavioral problem involving Yann. There's perhaps a question of what to do policy-wise here, but might that be a discussion better suited for WP:VPP than ANI? — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 18:44, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

Vmzp85

@Vmzp85: has a talkpage with many warnings against removing sources when a route starts from airports. Despite this, the user continues with this, including on Gatwick Airport, Madrid–Barajas Airport and Orly Airport. He/She seems to think that the sources only cover the start date, making the sources outdated after the start. But the sources also cover the route itself. The many warnings from many people did not yield any success up to now.

I don't know what to do now. The Banner talk 00:12, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

@Der Hon:, @Saucenowithnodompling:, @Dl2000: — Preceding unsigned comment added by The Banner (talk • contribs) 09:55, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

I'll admit to not fully understanding what they're trying to do, but removing sources from articles, such as in the diffs above, is unacceptable. Vmzp85, please stop this and start listening to what people are telling you or you are going to end up blocked.

P.S. @The Banner: your pings above don't work unless you add a fresh signature in the same edit. – bradv 02:53, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

Dispute in Falling from Grace (film) article

Since May of last year, I have had a dispute with Fourthords (talk · contribs) over the content on the Falling from Grace (film) article. It went from looking like this on September 20, 2020, to its current status today, it's almost a stub article. Granted, the September 2020 iteration of the article had its issues: the plot summary is a little long, the table for the cast is unnecessary, along with the character descriptions and there are entire paragraphs that were unreferenced in the reception section. But to completely revamp the article to its current status is a bit much. What's even more frustrating is that Fourthords hardly allows any constructive edits on the article. Even when I tried adding information from the film's own poster, he removes it because of "verifiability", even though adding such information like that is not controversial. Fourthords cites a rule here and a rule there, to justify his actions skating on WP:OWN territory. His dominance on the article says it all in the revision history, hardly any edits outside of his own are allowed. Here's a link to my previous discussions with this user, for reference: Talk:Falling from Grace (film)#unexplained edits and others. QuasyBoy (talk) 01:45, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

QuasyBoy, you've had 18 months to find a source for Dennis Virkler being the editor. Instead, you've borne a grudge. It took me a minute to find a review in the NYT that verifies Virkler's role in the filmmaking. If you want to improve the article, use this reliable source and go and find others. If someone objects to you adding unreferenced content, listen to them or follow dispute resolution. I can't see the need for admin action here. Fences&Windows 16:38, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

So I need a reference to verify a editor for a film, when that information can be found on the film poster? Should every name on the infobox have a reference attached to it, too? The article in its current form is mess, especially with the missing necessary information compared to other film articles. QuasyBoy (talk) 17:13, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

Yes, once someone objects to the inclusion of uncited information, you need a source for it. This is the mechanism by which Wikipedia fights the entropy of people adding every random thing that they personally believe to be true. --JBL (talk) 17:58, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

That's a great source, thanks! I've mined it to expand the article. I couldn't find any specific prohibition against editing the article while it and I're under discussion here, but if it was against SOP, I apologize in advance. — Fourthords | =Λ= | 22:17, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

Those edits you made are a good start. However, on the infobox, per the film poster, Larry McMurtry is credited as a writer, there is no "Story by" credit for him. As a matter of fact, I hardly hear of a film or television production with just a "Story by" credit only. It is customary for there to be a "Story by" credit with a "Screenplay by" or "Teleplay by" credit for the writers. The actors listed on the infobox should also reflect the names on the film poster, as well (per Template:Infobox film), Larry Crane is not listed on the film poster. Little B Pictures should listed under studio, Columbia Pictures then distributed the film. These were all edits I made on the article prior to you reverting them, I'm just making this clear to you again. QuasyBoy (talk) 00:55, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

User:QuasyBoy expressed their desire for my participation here, though I don't know what to say that isn't already explained at Talk:Falling from Grace (film). I'm also surprised at this venue, eschewing both discussion at Wikipedia talk:Verifiability (the policy at the heart of our preexisting discussion), as well as any formal & codified dispute resolution process, though I certainly don't wish to stymie their efforts. Given this page's obviously-frequent traffic, please forgive me if I don't catch any replies or updates here as quickly as expected. Thanks, all! — Fourthords | =Λ= | 07:52, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

I've added some sources to the talk page, hope they will help. Isaidnoway (talk) 🍁 10:53, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

Renewed activity by block evading Andrewbf of Mexico

User:Andrewbf was blocked nine years ago for disruption in music articles, and is now using IPs from Mexico to evade the block. The recent IPs active at "Live to Tell" are:

• 187.145.119.93 (talk⁺ · tag · contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RBLs · proxy check · block user · block log · cross-wiki contribs · CheckUser (log))
• 187.147.221.192 (talk⁺ · tag · contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RBLs · proxy check · block user · block log · cross-wiki contribs · CheckUser (log))
• 189.174.18.164 (talk⁺ · tag · contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RBLs · proxy check · block user · block log · cross-wiki contribs · CheckUser (log))

Other recent activity includes the ranges Special:Contributions/187.147.224.0/19 and Special:Contributions/187.155.128.0/19, which was blocked in August, and the following IPs:

• ‎189.141.25.196 (talk⁺ · tag · contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RBLs · proxy check · block user · block log · cross-wiki contribs · CheckUser (log))
• 187.147.213.68 (talk⁺ · tag · contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RBLs · proxy check · block user · block log · cross-wiki contribs · CheckUser (log))
• 187.147.173.116 (talk⁺ · tag · contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RBLs · proxy check · block user · block log · cross-wiki contribs · CheckUser (log))
• ‎189.174.2.169 (talk⁺ · tag · contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RBLs · proxy check · block user · block log · cross-wiki contribs · CheckUser (log))
• 189.174.5.153 (talk⁺ · tag · contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RBLs · proxy check · block user · block log · cross-wiki contribs · CheckUser (log))
• 187.161.141.186 (talk⁺ · tag · contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RBLs · proxy check · block user · block log · cross-wiki contribs · CheckUser (log))

In the past few months, Special:Contributions/131.196.246.66 and Special:Contributions/187.161.140.0/23 got blocked for three months, and Special:Contributions/2806:10B7:3:5309:0:0:0:0/64 got a week. The range Special:Contributions/189.172.0.0/16 is under a three-year block, and the range Special:Contributions/189.218.0.0/19 has a two-year block. All of these are Andrewbf evading his block—the focus, style and behavior are consistent.

Can we get some more blocks or rangeblocks going? It would be great to stem this recent flurry of activity. Binksternet (talk) 02:33, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

I think blocking the latest individual IP address(es) will be the appropriate remedy here. — AP 499D25 (talk) 06:51, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

user:Chinnusaikrish

User is engaged in continuous edit warring and does not contribute to talk and consensus when warned and reverted by multiple users on more than three occasions. Refer to the user contributions, which primarily focus on three to four specific articles. Recently the same content has been repeatedly inserted after multiple reverts and warnings. Additionally please check the user's talk page for multiple warnings, as the user has not responded to any of them. 456legend(talk) 07:39, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

This user almost certainly is due for sanctions of some severity, but at the same time, you and others who were reverting them at Sakshi (newspaper) had never used the article talk page, either. In fact, at the time of my writing this, Talk:Sakshi (newspaper) has not been used by anyone, ever. Also, 456legend, you haven't informed them if this very complaint, as is required, so how would they know it even exists? El_C 09:12, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

@El C They never replied to the warnings when they were previously involved in Eenadu also never replied to the warnings to various other users on the user talk page regarding Sakshi (newspaper). Yes definitely the talk page of the article was not used for discussion but his user talk page was. And I didn't inform about the latest revert because this user comes and goes for a brief period of time pasting the same content each and every time on the above mentioned articles without noticing the mentions on his talk page. 456legend(talk) 09:39, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

Also you can look here how the user is not ready to participate in consensus or provide the citations or source for the move they performed:here. Also this being my first put a incident request here about a user, I overlooked my duty to notify about this discussion. I will ensure to comply with the next time. 456legend(talk) 09:45, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

I'm not sure why you're asking me to look at one individual problematic section on their talk page then there's obviously like a million of em. Anyway, if they ignore this ANI report, they're almost certainly getting blocked, most likely for an indefinite duration. El_C 09:55, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

Okay and thank you for the guidance. 456legend(talk) 10:03, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

@El C The user @Chinnusaikrish tagged me on this talk page ANI notice and is of the opinion that I placed the content on the first hand on Sakshi (newspaper). Whereas I was the latest editor who only reverted his edit after the verification of the respective article edit history where many users reverted his content and he was asked to provide a rationale on this talk page. And the user is also of the opinion that I am involved in putting content on Eenadu whereas I haven't edited any thing on that article till now and only reported here regarding the respective activity. For the both articles the edit history and the user edits can be verified accordingly to determine if my involvement was present or not. And finally since the user haven't replied to lot of the notices on his talk page and has been pasting the same content again even after multiple talk page notices I have come to report here and had no plan of intiating a new discussion on the article talk page since these articles were of no interest to me and I had no knowledge of those topics and finally I am here with the conclusion that his edits are disruptive in nature since multiple users were in conflict with the same user alone and no response to those particular discussions.

Additionally, If my opinion and conclusion regarding the nature of his edits is false and if it is just for the user to not respond to them then I would like to say sorry and stay away from the discussion to avoid further conflict. 456legend(talk) 15:00, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

@El C The user @456legend didn't follow my edits properly wherein my edits were just neutral and seemed fair. But the user repeatedly reverted the edits where the content seemed non-neutral and biased and he reported against my edits without going through them properly. He didn't initiate any topic for a consensus on the respected article's talk page as well which seemed very suspicious. He simply reverted back my edits on certain occasions without any basis or prior information to me on my talk page. His reverted edits as I said with complete malicious intent. The same user followed a different strategy for another article Eenadu and saw that there was no malicious intent in that article which appeared to me as a dubious & unfair behavior.

Requesting you to please limit or block this user on certain issues which he himself admitted that he is not aware of or interested. Didn't understand why took so interest in these issues if he is not interested. Thanks~ Chinnusaikrish (talk) 09:32, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

@Chinnusaikrish I have only reverted your edit once on Sakshi (newspaper) and not multiple times. Additionally I haven't been involved in any edit on Eenadu. I don't know which user you are referring to. Finally I have already made my point clear that your edits were already contested on your talk page and you didn't answer any of those notices. Thus, I safely assumed that your edits were disruptive in nature and reported here. Also you can refer to the respective articles edit history to confirm whether I have edited any thing on these articles or not yourself. 456legend(talk) 09:38, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

Banned Wikipedia User utilizing at least 15 Different IPs to vandalize Wikipedia pages by removing mention of Noktundo

• 136.143.218.177 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• 162.221.124.31 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• 216.165.208.92 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• 216.165.208.163 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• 172.98.156.47 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• 136.143.217.225 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• 66.22.174.209 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• 69.166.119.181 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• 136.143.222.154 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• 168.91.61.39 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• 172.98.144.173 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• 172.98.151.41 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• 206.176.157.228 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• 45.58.94.255 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• 204.197.177.54 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

These multiple IPs have violated WP:NR, WP:PA, WP:DE, WP:NPOV and I highly suspect they are committing WP:LOUTSOCK based off the sheer number of IPs they are using combined with similarities to a previous banned user.

This person has engaged in racism towards Koreans and Chinese and other East Asians as a whole, they have called Korea and China "backwaters" and said I quote, "Unlike Europeans who had mathematics, science, exploration, and made maps, East Asians like Koreans and Chinese never had any of these" Here are the examples: [19] [20] [21]

They have conducted numerous personal attacks, directed mainly towards me, they refuse to engage with me on their usage of multiple accounts, accused me of lying for reverting their edits, and other things. [22] "Stop making up history" [23] [24] Accusations of lying

They have repeatedly deleted material on the articles, for example any mentions of the territorial dispute for Noktundo on Noktundo, Convention of Peking, List of territorial disputes and they have made more than a dozen new topics on the exact same topic of if Noktundo "exists or not" as well as if the territorial dispute exists or not when they could have kept it to one or two topics. I cannot list all of them because they've done more than 20+ of these disruptive edits, but here are some of the most egregious examples, such as them ignoring admins. [25] [26] [27] [28]

They are aggressively pushing their POV, suggesting that Korea will "invade" Russia and try to seize the island as well as other things. A particular quote of theirs here: "How so? Are we going to dispute which country owned Pangea? Disputes can only be for things that exist. Disputes cannot be for things that do not exist. Any claim that Primorsky krai is Korean land is a blatant violation of Russia's territory. Might as well claim Moscow is Korean land because Moscow is north of the Tumen river. So? Is South Korea going to claim Moscow is Korean land because Moscow is connected to Primorsky krai by land?" [29] [30] [31] [32]

I believe these fifteen IP accounts are likely from the banned ПаравозЛазо (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), which in turn was a sockpuppet of the banned user Kaustritten (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) who had multiple sock puppets such as TTACH (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log).

I believe there is probable cause to this claim, because [33] shows that Kaustritten and TTACH have used similar racist personal attacks towards other users, and have been adamant on removing any "territorial claims Korea has on Russia" such as when TTACH [34] tried to remove evidence of Goguryeo's presence in Russia which was incorrect.

I hope admin takes action as the distruptive editing through the use of fifteen different IP accounts is both harmful to Wikipedia and is a very serious vandalism issue for the Noktundo wikipedia page. I will notify the user pinging their latest IP that they used, though again it is a bit difficult to contact this user as they keep switching IPs.

Follow up Edit: I also had previously warned them to stop, but they ignored my comments to stop. 1st warning: [35] 2nd and final warning: [36]

Sunnyediting99 (talk) 00:31, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

(Non-administrator comment) Looks like the affected pages have been semi-protected for 3 weeks to 1 month, by Materialscientist and Daniel Case. Unfortunately, looks like blocks won't work here due to the rate at which they switch IP addresses, as well as the significant differences between many of the IPs (i.e. they're not all part of one common range that can be blocked or partially blocked). The amount of messages spammed by this single user on Talk:Noktundo is staggering though. — AP 499D25 (talk) 01:28, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

Yea, thats been of great help as prior to the protection of the three pages, they were constantly reverted back with deletions by the vandalism done by the IPs.

I feel like either still temporarily blocking the IPs, or somehow protecting the Talk Pages (or just immediately deleting all future comments from IPs that are spouting similar content and vandalism) would be ideal, I assume they will run out of IPs before we run out of bans. As you mentioned, the messages spammed by this person on the Noktundo Talk Page is indeed staggering, something has to be done to stop this person. Sunnyediting99 (talk) 01:41, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

I didn't realise that the odd messages in Talk:List of territorial disputes were part of a wider issue. This level of spamming is definitely disruptive. CMD (talk) 02:26, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

They have seen the notice and message I sent them, their reply is as follows:

"It is you who are vandalizing Wikipedia and bringing down its standards. Wikipedia is a joke thanks to nationalists like you who ignore reality. You cling onto a stupid article written in Russian from 2013 as your justification about some Noktundo being a disputed territory. You live in your own little fantasy world and ignore the real world. If anything, police should arrest you and throw you behind bars for using a stupid article written in Russian from 2013 to incite conflict and violence. You should be ashamed of yourself and go seek professional help. You saying a Noktundo which does not even exist being a disputed territory does not make it so. You are a crazy person who is clearly not right in the head. 45.58.94.255 (talk) 01:53, 24 November 2023 (UTC)"

[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Noktundo&diff=prev&oldid=1186564245]

[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Noktundo&diff=prev&oldid=1186564520]

They still have not commented on this ANI despite me alerting them. Sunnyediting99 (talk) 02:38, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

That IP has been blocked by Widr. CMD (talk) 06:26, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Noktundo&diff=prev&oldid=1186632339

They are ignoring the ANI, and have posted through a different IP that was used earlier, the compilation of the points they had previously made through various IP is the strongest evidence yet that the IPs are all the same person.

Admins, while the page is being protected, could you erase all their spams on the Talk Page? Or alternatively are editors allowed to erase content on Talk Page if its vandalism? It's starting to get frustrating seeing them just ignore the ANI and keep repeating their points over and over Sunnyediting99 (talk) 16:21, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

Do you know which talk page? Secretlondon (talk) 17:12, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

It's Talk:Noktundo Sunnyediting99 (talk) 18:33, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

IP has shifted to [Talk:List of territorial disputes] using Special:Contributions/172.98.151.41 Sunnyediting99 (talk) 05:53, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

IP 45.58.94.255 beclowning themselves and spamming anti-Korean posts.

Merged here where it belongs. --JBL (talk) 21:32, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

Can someone take a look at IP 45's actions on various talk pages (including Noktundo)? They've gone off the rails. 182.228.179.154 (talk) 05:52, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

This IP address was already being discussed in the thread Banned Wikipedia User utilizing at least 15 Different IPs to vandalize Wikipedia pages by removing mention of Noktundo above, but anyways, it has been blocked by Widr for 31 hrs duration just five minutes before this post. — AP 499D25 (talk) 06:30, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

47.218.111.38 is a sock for Thespeedoflightneverchanges

47.218.111.38 just confirmed to me off-wiki that he is User: Thespeedoflightneverchanges, who was blocked back in July for disruptive editing. Feel free to run a checkuser to confirm, but the pattern of editing, including the same kind of broken English, make this pretty clear. See that user's contributions, as well as the recent block of NelsonMandelaBarnes and events on Talk:Elissa Slotkin for context. Should definitely be indeffed in my view. Cpotisch (talk) 00:34, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

I know I was blocked and in fact have long done with wikipedia until User:Cpotisch tell me what happened here, and I think there are something insanely unfair on the talk page so I have to speak it out. Anyway, that account and this ip is the only two access I have to wikipedia. So don't touch anyone else because I don't want others to be harmed by what I am doing just because they happen to see my tweet or is editting the same page. 47.218.111.38 (talk) 01:13, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

Also before the inevitable block I hope User:Cpotisch can speak for the fairness and stop User:Dcpoliticaljunkiefrom ome insanely biased or even lying edits, like claiming Slotkin only moved away in August while the source says February or deleting the content provided by the Detroit News about her pushing a bill that the donor she leased room from directly benefits from. 47.218.111.38 (talk) 01:18, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

I've blocked the IP for block evasion because, well, yeah, and NelsonMandelaBarnes as a sock based on behavioral evidence. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 01:39, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

Buffy Sainte-Marie

BLP problem on the wrong noticeboard. Uncle G (talk) 16:23, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

199.180.167.20

Said anonymous user from New Hampshire, has been fighting with me over the Great Western 90 locomotive page: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Great_Western_90&action=history

He never provided any actual sources regarding No. 90 being taken out of service by the end of 2023 or early 2024. 611fan2001 (talk) 14:19, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

IP blocked from the page for one week for edit warring. Maybe that'll force discussion on the talk page. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 14:26, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

He provided 2 sources and was just reverted every time. Did the sources not say what he claimed? Secretlondon (talk) 17:19, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

He used out of date sources from late 2022 and early 2023. 611fan2001 (talk) 03:23, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

96.54.186.128 resuming the same behavior after two years of block?

96.54.186.128, who was blocked for two years in May 2021, came back in September of this year and has resumed making the same kind of gun-related edits that have been getting reverted. The user has NO talk page edits whatsoever (which means no replies to all of the notices on the user's own talk page either), meaning that even after a 2-year block the user isn't taking notice and trying to address this matter in any way. 104.175.78.152 (talk) 17:03, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

Blocked for a 1,000 days. CambridgeBayWeather (solidly non-human), Uqaqtuq (talk), Huliva 00:12, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

A Thousand Days? That's just a coincidence, you expect us to believe??? EEng 09:08, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

Sorry I'm not well up on dead leaders of minor foreign countries. Just checked the block log again it now says "expiration time of 2 years, 269 days, 12 hours, 21 minutes and 36 seconds". CambridgeBayWeather (solidly non-human), Uqaqtuq (talk), Huliva 16:05, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

That's just a smokescreen to obscure your part in the conspiracy. EEng 21:24, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

User:O recomeço and WP:CIR

I have competency concerns with O recomeço, specifically with their use of poor grammar in adding entries to Wikipedia:Unusual articles:

• [37]
• [38]
• [39]
• [40]
• [41]
• [42]
• [43]
• [44]
• [45]
• [46]
• [47]

The above examples are from this month alone. I'm sure there's more, but even after the entries added were copyedited, there has seemingly been no improvement. I'd say we block them. The Grand Delusion^{(Send a message)} 17:48, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

I see no attempt to contact them on the talk page or their own talk. ANI is completely unwarranted so far 47.188.8.46 (talk) 18:07, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

Um... [48] The Grand Delusion^{(Send a message)} 22:12, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

I'm guessing the IP means that no one tried talking directly to the user to explain them the issue with their editing pattern. Isabelle Belato ^{🏴‍☠️} 22:32, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Isabelle Belato, I'm the user that you're talking about here. To tried to explain my part, i'm a relatily new wikipedian and i'm still trying to figure out how the rules really in this community, but other usernames have already wanded me abaout the, impopularity per say, that its to make mutiple small editis on Wikipedia pages. But can you ask me one big question: in average, what is the "nice scale", and the frenquency, that a user make to a page, for its edit to be consider "legitimate" amoung other wikipedia users? For the gramatical errors, I'm not a native english speaker, so that's something I'll have to improve in the future. O recomeço (talk) 10:44, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

Hi O recomeço. The issue being presented here is not your amount of edits, but your domain of the English language. While it's no issue to misspell things occasionally, something that I do myself, The Grand Delusion is presenting here a pattern in your editing, meaning other users have to continually correct your mistakes. You should consider installing an autocorrect on your browser so that doesn't happen as often. Isabelle Belato ^🏳‍🌈 11:57, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Belato. Thanks for trying to explain me the grand issue that you gauys are trying to inform me. I'll to make less gramticals erros in the future. O recomeço (talk) 12:57, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

I think it would be better if you just stuck to editing the Wikipedia of your native language. The Grand Delusion^{(Send a message)} 13:10, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

Disruptive and abusive behaviour by User:Talkadu

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

• User:Talkadu persistently making disruptive edits on the basis of their personal views of a topic, as seen here: [49]. I made an attempt to address this on their talk page, only to be met with the same motivated arguments. Finally, after another revert, I was treated to abusive language here: [50]. Revirvlkodlaku (talk) 19:23, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
• I've blocked Talkadu for 48 hours.--Bbb23 (talk) 19:33, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Destructive editing in draft article.

Botushali, Draft:Military career of Mehmed the Conqueror He resorts to many destructive regulations and continues to do this despite my warnings. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Keremmaarda (talk • contribs) 18:31, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

I don't know about the content dispute here, but firstly 1. they are right in that you do not WP:OWN the draft, there is no such thing as "your draft" that only you can edit; and 2. both of you are edit warring, which is unacceptable no matter the merits of the underlying content issue. Fermiboson (talk) 15:48, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

I told him to stay away from the draft article because he made ridiculous and hostile changes to it. And even though I warned him, he continued to engage in the editing war. And the user I mentioned is practicing Albanian nationalism, trying to hide, cover up or embellish Skanderbeg's defeats. Keremmaarda (talk) 19:48, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

@Botushali, can you explain why you feel the overwhelming need to pick apart a draft that someone else is writing? It's not a live article – at least wait until it's moved to mainspace before critiquing it. But to both of you: it would be awfully silly to get blocked for edit warring on a draft. – bradv 21:22, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

Comment: The origin of this content dispute lies in the user's inclusion of a supposed "Battle of Burshek/Battle of Buzurshek" in the article in question. This "battle" was not a real battle - at most, it was a skirmish if it even occurred, and there are barely any sources on the matter. As such, when Keremmarda attempted to create a low quality and unreliable article on the matter, the page was deleted not once [51], but twice [52] (when the article was yet again created under a different name). @Bradv - perhaps I shouldn't have engaged in an edit war, but I would be disappointed to have the draft submitted for review and to be accepted with such blatant misinformation on the page that the reviewer may overlook. I am not necessarily picking apart the draft, only removing the same three words. The editor is trying to find loopholes to get the "Battle of Burshek/Buzurshek" on Wikipedia somehow.

Keremmarda accuses me of ridiculous and hostile changes, none of which are actually occurring. These are the changes in question - [53], [54], [55], and [56]. I don't think any of these edits are ridiculous or hostile, nor are the edit summaries hostile. However, Keremmarda seems to think they WP:OWN the draft article [57] and keeps making aggressive edit summaries. A quick scan on their edit history will reveal that they have a habit of treating their fellow editors with incivility and rudeness: Go away... [58], Bro don't bother with more pages... [59], You can't count [60], Do not try to change history with your nationalistic feelings. [61] etc etc.

Now, on top of that, Keremmarda is casting disrespectful WP:ASPERSIONS and has accused me of practicing Albanian nationalism in one of their comments above. Keremmarda did not "warn" me about edit warring - instead, they threatened to report me if I did not allow them to spread misinformation on their draft article. Keremmarda has also proceeded to go on a rant on my TP [62] - unfortunately, their personal opinions (nor mine for that matter) are of no relevance to what goes on Wikipedia articles. Content is dictated and regulated by WP:RS bibliography, and Keremmarda does not seem to be very aware of that. Judging by their rant, they should also read up on WP:PRIMARY and should look at the vast array of modern RS bibliography on the topic at hand. It would seem Keremmarda simply does not like the fact that Skanderbeg whooped the Ottomans on an annual basis for 25 years, even though relevant articles are supported by RS. Botushali (talk) 21:41, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

Uncouth behavior by IP

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

2800:150:141:1AE9:4D0B:45E7:23AE:16BD made these uncouth, uncivilized and WP:NOTHERE remarks in response to a legitimate comment on Talk:2023 Dublin riot on NPOV, vandalism and false editing by anonymous IPs: [63] Asking for immediate action to be taken to prevent such disgusting users from abusing this site again. Borgenland (talk) 00:43, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

A diff would have been fine - did you really have to quote the whole thing? One edit by the IP, even if you expand to the /64 range, isn't worth doing anything at all.--Bbb23 (talk) 00:46, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

It's a single stale edit by an IP. Just remove it from the talk page and move on. Also, if behavior is disgusting it's not great to replicate it in whole at the most visible meta location on-wiki. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 00:47, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Disruptive, redundant and unexplained changes to thumbnail sizes by User:Mndata2

MOS:UPRIGHT explains how upright= should be used, specifying the circumstances where it might be reasonable to choose a thumbnail size other than the default. User:Mndata2 has visited dozens of articles, inserting upright tags without any evident logic and ignoring requests to use edit summaries to explain their reasoning. Multiple attempts on their talk page to address the issue have received no response whatever:

• First friendly advice: user talk:Mndata2#Unexplained addition of upright tags to thumbnails. No response. User started to provide terse edit summaries but continued to add unexplained upright= tags.
  • Advice reiterated by user:Pyrope. No response
• Mndata ignored the polite requests and continued disruptive editing: given a uw-disruptive2. No response.
• Disruptive editing continued, given a uw-disruptive3. No response.
• Disruptive editing continued, given a second uw-disruptive3 warning. No response.
• Disruptive editing continued: [64], [65], [66], [67], [68], [69]], [70], [71], [72], [73], [74], [75], [76], [77], [78], [79] [80]. Given a uw-disruptive4 final warning.
  • Request reiterated by user:Murgatroyd49. No response.
• Disruption continued next day: [81], [82], [83] (twice).

WP:Communication is required. I suggest that this editor be blocked from editing until they show willing to engage in dispute resolution mechanisms. (A make-weight I know, but they also ignore notifications from DPL bot too, leaving it to others to clean up their errors.)

Is that enough? --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 13:07, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

User:Verddieta

• Verddieta (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

This user has been a prolific creator of Qatari building stubs for quite a while. Most of them are linked only to primary sources and subject websites. Naturally, that leads to a slew of CSDs and AfDs on most of the articles. In response to attempted friendly explanations by many experienced editors and admins, the user has instead made continued accusations of bias, incivility and threats to "report for vandalism" (which you can see on nearly every section in the talk page, so I won't bother with diffs). Recently (or maybe not so recently, but nobody else has bothered to report) this editor has recreated redirects and revert warred over articles redirected at AfD. The user is now beginning to create stubs sourced only to primary material again, and revert warring again, this time without communication thus far (though I am willing to assume that, given they have been back for no more than a day, this may change). In any case, there is a longstanding pattern of problematic behaviour. Fermiboson (talk) 14:59, 25 November 2023 (UTC) Editor notified here.

Counter-report (what?) merged into main report. Fermiboson (talk) 16:25, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

Hi. problem with Fermiboson. A specific question from the respected admin. Is Wikipedia a personal property some people ?!. If making articles related to entertainment, properties and buildings is not allowed then all articles related to Dubai should be removed. A certain user insults me and my constructive efforts and deletes articles in bulk with his own personal will and complains?!! What does this have to do with the law of Wikipedia?! Problematic behavior means bulk deletion of articles with valid sources. Problematic behavior means creating personal law and treating Wikipedia as personal property. It is available on my talk page that I responded to admin and user with full respect and accepted the removal of articles. But instead of helping to create articles with their personal opinion, user encourage users to be inactive on Wikipedia. 90% of the articles I have created have had wikis in other languages as well. My effort is to complete the articles related to Doha and Dubai. In the meantime, please refer to this user page, many users complain about his violence, bulk deletion of articles by him and frequent insults of this user. With respect. Verddieta (talk) 16:09, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

Verddieta, if you want to create articles, you need to follow the guidelines. Read and understand Wikipedia:Notability and Wikipedia:Neutral point of view. If you cannot understand these, seek help at the Teahouse. Do not come to ANI with a feeble complaint about your edits having been removed; it is normal for sub-standard edits to be removed. Deb (talk) 16:24, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

Deb, hi with respect. I explained completely. None of the articles created violate the standard. Rather, user delete it by personal desire. Verddieta (talk) 16:27, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

When everyone who has ever posted on your talk page disagrees that "none of the articles created violate the standard", in addition to three or four well participated AfDs, maybe it's time to reflect. Fermiboson (talk) 16:33, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

Verddieta, in addition to the guidelines I've already directed you to, please read Wikipedia:Assume good faith. For now, I would just warn you that if you continue with the behaviour Fermiboson has pointed out, you are likely to be blocked for disruptive editing. Deb (talk) 16:48, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

• Verddieta - Hello. I'm not affiliated with Wikipedia and I've had a lot of articles deleted too. Basically, every article has to have at least 3 sources that are not connected to the article. So if you can find 3 newspaper articles, 3 television newscasts, 3 paragraphs from books about the article or similar sources, the article will likely be allowed on Wikipedia. The article will likely be deleted if the only sources are from the same company as the article, the articles owners or if they are affiliated with the subject in the article. I know it is frustrating to have your article deleted. I don't personally agree with these rules, but your article could be deleted if the article does not follow the rules. If you any questions, you can ask me and I will try to help.KatoKungLee (talk) 18:59, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

  Slight correction to the above - 2 is enough per WP:GNG. However, the sources still need to be 1. reliable and 2. have significant coverage of the subject. For example, a directory showing the existence of a building does not have significant coverage, while a blog, web published newspaper or newspaper with questionable editorial standards are not reliable. Special notability guidelines exist for certain categories of articles; the one most relevant to you is WP:NBUILD, which also requires "significant, in depth coverage" of the building in sources. For example, rather than a newspaper article that talks about an event happening at a building, we would need a newspaper article that talks about the building as its primary subject. What is definitely not acceptable, and you know it by now, is using solely the building owners' website as sources. Fermiboson (talk) 19:19, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

  Fermiboson - I think simplifying this and not getting too far into wikipedia's various rules will achieve better results here. I think the user is probably seeing older articles (or articles from other wiki's) with limited to no sources and likely is wondering what the issue is. And of course, having multiple articles deleted probably makes him feel that people are picking on him. I'm also guessing that this user is using a translator of some sort or English is not their first language. KatoKungLee (talk) 19:29, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

  Appreciate you trying to help out, and I too hope that Verddieta will get the point. We are, however, past the point where should be coddling a new editor with WP:BITE, or else we'd be on the user talk page, not AN/I. If one's reaction to articles being deleted is to accuse everyone (including admins) of being vandals, revert war over AfD closes, and simply disregard other people when told that the articles don't meet notability (the word "notable" is easy enough to understand, yes?), then straight up lie about what's right in front of their face (I would really like to know what diffs exactly he thought was "many users complain about his violence... frequent insults"), then I'd start to question the editor's ability to participate in a collaborative project. Fermiboson (talk) 20:25, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

  I'm pretty sure that "notable" is not easy for Verddieta to understand, along with most of our guidelines. I think this is the main problem here. Looking at his initial comments ("Is Wikipedia a personal property some people" [sic]). I think his English comprehension is probably as bad as his ability to express himself in the language. I think we should close this discussion now - he's had a final warning. Deb (talk) 09:36, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

User:KatoKungLee. Thank you very much for your support and message with respect and humility. I clearly explained that there are thousands of articles of this type and of poor quality, but no user has a problem with that. But I don't know according to which law and court this is being done to me?! I was born to an Iranian father and a French mother, my first language is certainly not English. Anyway, I obey the law. Let me just say that, in the eyes of users like Deb and Fermiboson. Day by day, the number of active users in Wikipedia is reduced. The passion for the right activity should be created. Not that it drove users away from Wikipedia. Verddieta (talk) 11:45, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

For example, the article Palm Towers has both multiple wikipedia's and reference. Many times people delete it without any reason and based on their personal opinion. why some user this bullying dont end?! Verddieta (talk) 11:56, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

Verddieta, I warned you not to continue with this. Almost immediately, you returned to make unfounded accusations both here and on Fermiboson's talk page. I've blocked you for 48 hours to give you time to re-think your approach. When you return, you must stop doing this and concentrate on improving your contributions, otherwise you could find yourself blocked permanently. Deb (talk) 13:35, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

User:331dot

There is a minor dispute, and I think 331dot's use of tools was not judicious. I'm sure there are a lot of rationale admins that can handle this situation better.

First, 331dot speedy-deleted (G4) the article on Raquel Evita Saraswati based on a 10-year-old AfD, knowing that there is a lot of new coverage; the old AfD is null and void in 2023 due to this new coverage. When I pointed this out on their talkpage, they agreed to restore it in draftspace. Obviously, they don't own the article, and it is not obligatory for me to use AfC, so I moved it back to the main space. Due to these concerns, I also opened an AfD on my own initiative as I anticipated this coming, but it was speedily closed. Now, they are still insisting that I use AfC, or they will delete the article again unilaterally. I don't know if this behavior aligns with Wikipedia standards, but it certainly raises a question: Is this the first instance, or is it a regular occurrence? I won't contribute if Wikipedia operates like this. Skeus (talk) 20:30, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

• The old AFD being "null and void" is a matter for discussion and I was(and still am) simply directing the user to the proper avenues for that discussion. The AFD was speedy closed since no one wanted it deleted. The only reason I knew about this article at all is that it was intially CSD-nominated as both deleted per a discussion and as an attack page(I didn't think it was an attack page, but that's why I was drawn to it). Would have appreciated some more discussion before being brought here. 331dot (talk) 20:36, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

I took a look at the deleted version and it's very different from the current iteration, so I don't think G4 applies. The usual course of action is to go ahead and put it in mainspace, and if anyone objects they can start an AfD (but you really shouldn't use AfD if you don't want it deleted). – bradv 20:39, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

I disagreed becuase I felt that the reasons for deletion still applied- but my main beef with this whole thing was that I did something on a condition and that condition was broken. I have little interest in the article itself existing or not, I was just trying to help direct someone to what I thought was the right place. 331dot (talk) 20:44, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

How do you figure? The text is not "substantially" identical, as required by WP:G4. And the original deletion reason was lack of notability, but there are plenty of references in the new version to articles published after the date of the previous AfD. So it fails both criteria. But I would agree with your other point - this complaint shouldn't be about you, it's about the action itself. I'm tempted to rename this section. – bradv 20:54, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

If I've misinterpreted the criteria, I'll gladly take a trout to the face- but my only goal here was to help steer to what I thought would be the right venue. That's all. 331dot (talk) 20:59, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

Nah, no need to abuse any fish. The original advice to use AfC was solid and well-intentioned, and definitely would have been the less contentious approach. But AfC is not mandatory, so we still have to follow the regular processes if someone chooses to bypass it. At any rate, I've said enough here. – bradv 21:12, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

I also will gladly apologize to Skeus for giving offense. I just thought there was an agreement here, I guess not. 331dot (talk) 21:01, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

And calling me not rational is kinda beyond the pale. I've been nothing but rational here- people can be rational and disagree. 331dot (talk) 20:45, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

• Deletion review is thataway.—S Marshall T/C 20:56, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

Immature AN/I thread (in the sense of "too soon", not "childish"). I don't think there's any need for inflammtory disagreements here. I was the person who first nomm'd for G10 because I saw that the article essentially said the subject was a fraud and the sources were somewhat questionable, but there are RS that say that too so I agree that was in error. I couldn't see the deleted version, of course, so nomm'd on G4 on the assumption that the deleting admin would compare the versions.

From the many times I've seen 331dot's work over the wiki, they are a very experienced and collegial admin, and their actions here were entirely civil as well. Skeus is also a skilled editor (thank you for doing the WP:BEFORE for me), maybe slightly unsed to the way things work around here. I think the above conversation has shown beyond any doubt that 331dot has no intention of offending anyone, and maybe Skeus felt a bit bitten by the tone of the message, which maybe does sound too much like a warning rather than informational. You don't need to leave, and please don't leave - every constructive editor is immensely valuable to the project. Fermiboson (talk) 01:22, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

Also per future reference, if one has an issue with admin action, raising it on the admin talk page first instead of going straight to AN/I s generally preferred. This place is the drama boards. Fermiboson (talk) 01:23, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

Weird IP editing at talk:Maddie Ziegler

There has been some odd editing by an IP at talk:Maddie Ziegler. It’s not an article, so I’m not sure page protection is the best way, but in just over 24 hours the page has seen the following edits: [84], [85], [86], [87], [88]. - SchroCat (talk) 00:39, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

I semi-protected it for 24 hours. Weird stuff like that is becoming common although not usually focused on a single page. If it continues the trend of the last couple of years I can imagine a future where MediaWiki has to have built-in limits on liberty. Johnuniq (talk) 00:51, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

Cheers Johnuniq - that’s great. - SchroCat (talk) 05:15, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

User:FuzzyMagma and close paraphrasing

TL;DR: Not only does FuzzyMagma (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) have an extensive track record close paraphrasing, but they actively dismiss any warnings about their editing and do not properly acknowledge their mistakes.

Summary

• FuzzyMagma has previously been warned for copyright issues (see section "Copyright problem: Republican Palace (Sudan)").
• I first noticed their edits when dying posted an extensive cross examination at WT:DYK, as part of a dispute over a DYK nomination (see first collapsible section below).
• FuzzyMagma's response was one of open contempt: "I saw the name dying and stopped reading tbh."
• Because of the clear close paraphrasing and refusal to acknowledge fault, I gave them a warning on their talk page. They immediately reverted with the edit summary "Don’t spam my talk with rubbish".
• In the five days since that warning, they have continued to add close paraphrasing to articles (see second collapsible section below).
• Yesterday, theleekycauldron opened a CCI to discuss FuzzyMagma's edits. FM's response focuses predominantly on other editors' conduct, insinuating that dying had not randomly selected the article Kalakla to look at, and only vaguely addressing the masses of close paraphrasing in their own edits: I am not saying that I have not made mistakes, I have made plenty but ...

Part of dying's source-text analysis, originally without tables at WT:DYK (20/11/2023)

Source September 1983 laws "Nimeiry was allied with the Muslim Brotherhood led by ... al-Turabi [and] allowed the group to carry out its advocacy, political, and economic activity. The latter took advantage of the opportunity in order to empower itself and take control. The group blessed the announcement of implementing the laws of September 1983 and took out massive marches in support of the move. It also provided its political support for the laws through its advocacy platforms, student organizations, and voluntary organizations, as well as its cadres of judges ... such as Muhammad Mahjoub Haj Nour and Al-Makashfi Taha Al-Kabashi." "Nimeiry was allied with the Muslim Brotherhood led by al-Turabi and allowed the group to carry out its advocacy, political, and economic activities. The Brotherhood took advantage of the opportunity to order to empower itself and take control. The group blessed the announcement of implementing the laws of September 1983 and had massive marches in support of the move. It also provided political support for the laws through its advocacy platforms, student organisations, and voluntary organisations, as well as its cadres of judges such as Muhammad Mahjoub Haj Nour and Al-Makashfi Taha Al-Kabashi." Source September 1983 laws "... as many as 300 Sudanese who have lost one or more limbs .... Emergency courts routinely ordered amputations for people found guilty of stealing property worth $40 or more. For those who received such punishment, stares, accusations and harassment are constant. Employment is, for them, an ever-diminishing expectation. ... Their severed limbs represent badges of criminal guilt ..., making ... wrongful arrest common. They are taunted .... The punishments sometimes brought an end to family life; to go home without a limb would mean shame .... The amputees have formed a self-help association ... to establish small businesses and obtain medical and legal assistance. ... Peter Anton von Arnim ... said the Government's arguments ... included accusations that it would be a front for criminals, and that would upset Moslems who favored the Sudan's form of Islamic justice." "As many as 300 Sudanese endured the painful amputation of limbs. These punishments, administered by emergency courts, were inflicted on those found guilty of stealing property worth over $40. These amputees faced constant social stigma and accusations, making it increasingly challenging to secure employment. Their severed limbs were perceived as marks of criminality, leading to wrongful arrests and a life of taunts as they walked the streets. In many cases, these punishments shattered family lives, as returning home without a limb brought shame. ... However, they rallied together to form a self-help association, aiming to establish small businesses and obtain medical and legal assistance. They ... faced opposition from the government, citing concerns that it might be used as a front for criminals and disrupt the Sudan's form of Islamic justice." Source September 1983 laws "Then, in 1984, Nimeiry began proposing draft broad constitutional amendments to the 1973 Constitution to declare Sudan an "Islamic Republic" ( Article 1 of the draft amendments ) and for the President of the Republic to be "a leader of the believers and the head and imam of the state" ( Article 80 of the draft amendments ), and for the sources of Sharia to be It is the law and custom that does not conflict with it ( Article 59 of the draft amendments ). Then the 1998 Constitution came to glorify the religious foundation by introducing a text on "the nature of the state," which stipulated that governance in the state belongs to God, the Creator of human beings ( Article 4 ). It also stipulated that it is not permissible to enact a law that conflicts with Islamic law and the consensus of the nation ( Article 65 ), as the text thus excluded non-Muslims by consolidating the religious state's dominance over the aspects of public life." " Also in 1984, Nimeiry began proposing broad constitutional draft amendments to the 1973 Constitution to declare Sudan an "Islamic republic" (article 1 of the draft amendments), and for the president of the republic to be "a leader of the believers and the head and imam of the state" (article 80 of the draft amendments), and for the sources of Sharia to be it is the law and custom that does not conflict with it (article 59 of the draft amendments). It also stipulated that it is not permissible to enact a law that conflicts with Islamic law and the consensus of the nation (article 65), as the text thus excluded non-Muslims by consolidating the religious state's dominance over aspects of public life." Source Islamism in Sudan "After the overthrow of Numeiri's rule, Al-Turabi and his men founded the "National Islamic Front," which ran in the elections for the Constituent Assembly and won third place after the two historical parties, with 54 seats, which made it the leader of the opposition. Al-Turabi succeeded once again in acting as a pressing opposition party, disrupting the attempt of Sadiq al-Mahdi, the prime minister and majority leader in parliament, to suspend the controversial September laws and initiate peace negotiations with the south." "Following the fall of Nimeiri's regime, al-Turabi and his associates established the "Islamic National Front." This newly formed group participated in the Constituent Assembly elections and secured the third position, amassing 54 seats. This achievement positioned them as the leading opposition force. Al-Turabi once again excelled in playing the role of a influential opposition party, effectively thwarting Sadiq al-Mahdi's endeavor—head of the government and the parliamentary majority—to suspend the contentious September laws and push forward peace negotiations with the southern region." Source Kalakla "The history of Al-Kalakla goes back approximately 450 years, since the arrival of Sheikh Ali bin Muhammad bin Kannah .... Hamdallah bin Muhammad Al-Awadi ... came in the same era to this spot ... and the two intermarried, so the name (Al-Kalakla) came to be included in them. The ancient Kalakla migrated from Al-Manjara to the land of gravel, which is the area south of Al-Hamdab and Al-Shajara .... The Kalakla worked in agriculture, cutting trees ...." "The history of Kalakla goes back approximately 450 years, since the arrival of Sheikh Ali bin Muhammad bin Kanna .... Hamdallah bin Muhammad Al-Awadi also came to the region in the same era .... The two intermarried and the name Kalakla came to include all of them. The ancient Kalakla people migrated from Al-Manjara to the today's Kalakla, an area located south of Al-Hammadab and Al-Shajara. The Kalakla people worked in agriculture, and cutting trees and lumber." and more, smaller examples. References

Post-warning close paraphrasing (21–25/11/2023)

Source War crimes during the War in Sudan (2023) "Scores of women and girls, some as young as 12, have been subjected to sexual violence - including rape - by members of the warring sides. Some were held for days in conditions of sexual slavery." "Numerous females, including girls as young as 12, have endured sexual violence, including rape, at the hands of combatants from opposing factions. Certain individuals were forcibly detained for extended periods in situations tantamount to sexual slavery." Source, Malik Maaza "He worked at universities throughout Europe and Asia before coming to South Africa as a senior lecturer at Wits University in 1997, where he became Research Group leader for the Advanced Nano-Materials and Nano-Scale Physics Lab. He has co-initiated the African Laser Centre and the South African Nanotechnology Initiative ... he initiated the Nanosciences African Network" "Maaza’s research covers not only photonics but materials science at the nano-scale for different applications such as selective solar absorbers for solar energy harvesting and conversion, Nanofluids for enhanced heat transfer in concentrated solar power (CSP) and other renewable energy technologies." "After working across universities in Europe and Asia, Maaza joined University of the Witwatersrand in 1997 as a senior lecturer and later led the Advanced Nano-Materials and Nano-Scale Physics Lab. He co-found the African Laser Centre and South African Nanotechnology Initiative that was launched in 2001 and spearheaded the Nanosciences African Network." "His research spans photonics and nano-scale materials science, targeting diverse applications like selective solar absorbers, nanofluids for enhanced heat transfer in solar power, and renewable energy technologies." References

Thus, I have no confidence that FuzzyMagma understands their mistakes or wants to fix them. This is a shame, because they are an editor who clearly cares greatly about fixing the systemic bias on the project. Hopefully, this thread conveys something of that nature to them. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 01:49, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

It seems like I am being targeted for the same issue at two different places. Have a look here Wikipedia:Contributor copyright investigations#FuzzyMagma.

It’s amazing that two different people (not dying) are investing time reporting this. Again not the one who claim to found something but two who sided with dying from the beginning.

Talking about systemic bias ok! You told my to drop the stick and once I pointed out that I was not the one with the stick you went quiet, and gave me a warning on my talk and now this.

At least the other admin did the decent thing and let someone impartial have a look. That is how you at least solve systemic bias.

Anyway, read my reply at CCI. FuzzyMagma (talk) 08:06, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

“have an extensive track record close paraphrasing, but they actively dismiss any warnings about their editing and do not properly acknowledge their mistakes.” do not state opinion as a fact, wait for the CCI outcome or at least read my rebuttal and don’t put your “feeling” about my rebuttal but summarise what was said using an impartial language. FuzzyMagma (talk) 08:21, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

How did you conclude that Malik Maaza is WP:close paraphrasing?!

please just wait for CCI, your whole summary of the incident is unfair/skewed and for some reason you want close this by providing - what you think - as more evidence FuzzyMagma (talk) 10:21, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

@FuzzyMagma, Dying, Theleekycauldron, Rjjiii, Viriditas, and Diannaa: editors mentioned or previously involved with DYK nom or copyright; talk page notification to come shortly.

• Despite everything, I'm going to plead for leniency on FuzzyMagma's behalf. For starters – and this is partially my fault – dying's concerns at the original WT:DYK thread and the nomination discussion were communicated incredibly poorly. The first example dying cited turned out to be a dud, leading FuzzyMagma to think that they were out of the woods. dying did not clearly identify all of the sources the submitted article was copied from, within Wikipedia or otherwise, which they implied after the fact was an intentional choice on their part to spare FuzzyMagma the criticism. That led to example after example of source material and conflicting quotes from the DYK rules being thrown at FuzzyMagma, with them being tasked with sorting all of it out without a clear picture of what was going on and under the time pressure of the hook already being queued to appear on the Main Page. I hope dying's takeaway from this thread is that, though they remained civil, that choice made the thread much longer and more painful than it needed to be. None of this excuses FuzzyMagma's behavior towards dying, and it especially doesn't excuse the very legitimate copyright concerns, but I can certainly understand their frustration with this entire process, which revolves around the application of niche and esoteric DYK procedural rules designed to prevent newness-by-copying and was not explained well. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 02:03, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

If we assume everything said about the situation under discussion is true, what about a simple solution that temporarily restricts the user to draft space, where their work can be checked by interested parties, and they can demonstrate how to paraphrase appropriately? Perhaps combining this with a mentorship would be best? This would allow the user to continue their work just as they doing now, with the only difference that it would have to be checked and approved before going to main space. Viriditas (talk) 02:43, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

The tables above show clear copyright violations and they are not permitted anywhere. I have not investigated this issue but taking the tables at face value and regardless of how poor earlier communication was, FuzzyMagma has to avoid similar edits because repeated problems of this nature have to result in a block. Johnuniq (talk) 05:49, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

Master of Reality dispute/meatpuppetry

2804:14D:5CC4:484C:610F:FCBC:75CC:4831 Has been using Mutiple IPs to change the release date of Master of Reality based on one source (Which is probably the US release date). I tried to change it and now he is trying to get other users to join him in keeping the source which is a form of Meatpuppetry 2601:3C5:8200:97E0:B88F:BB3E:D308:57FA (talk) 05:31, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

Repeated vandalism by User:Justin Hurley

User:Justin Hurley has vandalised several pages here: [89], [90], [91], [92], request immediate indefinite block. Mztourist (talk) 07:40, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

I indeffed Justin Hurley (talk · contribs). Johnuniq (talk) 08:33, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

Thanks! Mztourist (talk) 08:34, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

Jamiebuba and their socks

Drawing attention to paid editing by an editor who's engaging in reviewing articles that are clearly not notable. But I will point out only a single case and leave the rest to you to tackle. The editor - Jamiebuba, moved a page from main space to draft space stating that the article was not yet ready for main space as it lacked reliable independent sources. They contacted the agent of the subject of the article and after being paid Jamiebuba brought in their other account Wedsslumo which they used to insert three more highly promotional sources, moved the page back to main space and in just over an hour Jamiebuba showed up and reviewed the article 102.91.72.178 (talk) 11:21, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

You are required to notify involved users when you post a notice here as per the large red banner and edit notice on this page. I have done it for you. Ca ^{talk to me!} 12:02, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

Divisive comments from editor experienced on another language Wikipedia

See [93]. An edit which we might see from a vandalizing IP. Yet this editor has more than 82,000 edits at Hebrew wikipedia. Onceinawhile (talk) 12:08, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

I've reverted the edit as WP:NOTFORUM and left the user a templated warning. I'm not sure there is much else to do here, unless they decide to continue this behavior. Isabelle Belato ^🏳‍🌈 12:30, 26 November 2023 (UTC)