Wikipedia:Requested moves/Current discussions

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This page lists all requests filed or identified as potentially controversial which are currently under discussion.

This list is also available in a page-link-first format and in table format. 35 (Discuss)ions have been relisted.

January 16, 2018[edit]

  • (Discuss)The Wave: BristolThe Wave – The Wave: Bristol is not the common name of the subject and it is overprecise as The Wave has several developments underway in different geographical locations, not just Bristol Zephyr2014 (talk) 14:10, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

January 15, 2018[edit]

  • (Discuss)Salisbury Catholic Parish SA → ? – The abbreviation SA will not be obvious to non-Australians, and an alternative is to move to a namespace that focuses the article on the notable heritage building. There are a number of possible names based on WP:CRITERIA: *RecognizabilitySalisbury Catholic Parish, or Old St Augustine's Catholic Church as the name people familiar with the building use to differentiate it from the newer building nearby. *NaturalnessSalisbury Catholic Parish, South Australia as suggested by Peterkingiron, or Old St Augustine's Catholic Church (Salisbury, South Australia) modeled after the other churches listed at St. Augustine Catholic Church. *PrecisionSalisbury Roman Catholic Parish, South Australia, or St Augustine's Catholic Church and Cemetery (Salisbury, South Australia) modeled after articles listed at St. Augustine Catholic Church and Cemetery and the listing in the heritage registry. *ConcisenessSalisbury Catholic Parish is enough because there is no existing article at that namespace, or St. Augustine's Catholic Church, Salisbury. *ConsistencySalisbury Roman Catholic Parish modeled after other article names such as Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Adelaide, or St Augustine's Catholic Church (Salisbury, South Australia) modeled after the other churches listed at St. Augustine Catholic Church. I prefer Old St Augustine's Catholic Church because I consider the building the notable topic in the article, this seems to be a name used by people familiar with the building, it is not too long, and I prefer to avoid disambiguators when possible. It could be listed at St. Augustine Catholic Church and Cemetery and St. Augustine Catholic Church to help people find the article about the historic building, and there could be a redirect from the existing namespace for people interested in the parish. – Jack N. Stock (talk) 23:16, 15 January 2018 (UTC)
  • (Discuss)Plantation eraAntebellum era – article lede uses Antebellum, specific term for the Southern United States, as there were also plantation eras in Hawaii and Ireland. *Note, "plantation" seems to get more Google hits, but their software also autocorrects the search box to "Antebellum" Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 08:14, 7 January 2018 (UTC)--Relisting. TonyBallioni (talk) 23:08, 15 January 2018 (UTC)
  • (Discuss)Keith Creel (executive)Keith Creel – Confident this will now be the primary topic at this name. CEO of Canadian Pacific is a prominent position and he is frequently the subject of media reports [1]. Predecessor E. Hunter Harrison had average monthly 1,680 page views while in post,[2] against 128 for the baseball player [3] (and who knows how many of those were looking for the railway man): Noyster (talk), 13:37, 7 January 2018 (UTC)--Relisting. TonyBallioni (talk) 23:06, 15 January 2018 (UTC)
  • (Discuss)ArgyrocytisusArgyrocytisus battandieri – There is only one species in this genus. The article is a description of the species rather than the genus; therefore the correct heading should be the name of the species (with a redirect from the name of the genus). Darorcilmir (talk) 11:28, 15 January 2018 (UTC)
  • (Discuss)142,857142857 – This article is about the series of digits "142857", not just the number one hundred and forty two thousand eight hundred and fifty seven. For example, there's a section covering 1/7=0.142857142857142857... As such, it shouldn't be treated as just a number, with a comma separator per MOS:DIGITS. No one is going to confuse this with a year. Paul_012 (talk) 08:39, 15 January 2018 (UTC)
  • (Discuss)Jethro Tull (band)Jethro Tull – Only two uses on the dab page and there is already a hatnote on this one. Compare search results for terms like "Jethro Tull + Aqualung" or "Jehtro Tull + rock" versus "Jethro Tull + seed drill" or "Jethro Tull + agriculture" and it's pretty clear which one is the common name. ―Justin (koavf)TCM 07:34, 15 January 2018 (UTC)
  • (Discuss)UFO 34 (yacht)UFO 34 (yacht class) – rather than being an individual yacht, this is a class of yachts, so the disambiguator should indicate that, similar to how other classes of objects have a classifiation indicated disambiguator instead of just looking like a particular instance of that. -- (talk) 07:32, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

January 14, 2018[edit]

  • (Discuss)Ying Wa CollegeAnglo-Chinese CollegeAnglo-Chinese College (now Ying Wa College) is one of the existing earliest articles in English Wikipedia that it was original referring to the College founded in 1818 and dissolved in 1873. Although Ying Wa College (a secondary school now in Hong Kong) claims its origin is Anglo-Chinese College, there is a definite historical break between the Anglo-Chinese College (dissolved on 1873) and Ying Wa College (reestablished on 1914). Most of the academic researches about the Anglo-Chinese College only refer to the institution before 1873. (e.g. Waiting for China: the Anglo-Chinese College in Malacca by Brian Harrison [7] and Robert Morrison and the Protestant Plan for China by Christopher A. Daily [8], both published by HKU Press). Some historians have also challenged the historical connection between both. (as stated in Ying Wa Girls' School history [9], only available in Chinese.) Ux610283 (talk) 15:07, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
  • (Discuss)Merseburg IncantationsMerseburg Charms – "Merseburg Charms" is the normal name for these texts in English-language scholarship. A free-text search of JStor finds 42 hits for "Merseburg charms" and not a single one for "Merseburg incantations". As far as I can see, "charms" is the only term used in the standard handbooks and reference works on German language and Old High German literature: *the histories of Waterman and Wells *Bostock/McLintock *Encyclopedia of German Literature (ed. Matthias Konzett) *Murdoch's German Literature of the Early Middle Ages *Edwards's The Beginnings of German Literature *Jeep's Medieval Germany: An Encyclopedia *and further afield, Norse Mythology: A Guide to Gods, Heroes, Rituals, and Beliefs (John Lindow). The only occurrence I can find of "Merseburg incantations" in a peer-reviewed print publication is Stefan Jänicke's "On the Impact of the Merseburg Incantations", though no doubt there are a few more. Google, of course, finds lots, but as far as I can see the majority of these are just mirrors and adaptations of the WP article, and in any case there are still more hits for "charms" Pfold (talk) 11:13, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
  • (Discuss)Primo (wrestler)Primo Colón – Common name, current ring name started out as and most notable as Primo Colón winning the Unified WWE Tag Team Championships with his brother Carlito Colón at WrestleMania 25. (talk) 02:09, 14 January 2018 (UTC)

January 13, 2018[edit]

  • (Discuss)Tom Wright (rugby)Tom Wright (rugby league) – (rugby) is the accepted MOS for if a rugby football player has played both codes at the professional level, or at the top level of the time. This guy does not appear to have done that and has been moved incorrectly Fleets (talk) 21:09, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
  • (Discuss)All of Me (Ruth Etting song)All of me (standard) – The song is extremely famous and has been for a very long time, but Ruth Etting is pretty obscure. Moreover, many other singers are at least as closely associated with the song (Billie Holliday, for example); it's long been a standard vehicle for jazz instrumental performance; and Ruth Etting was not even the first singer to perform the song in a broad commercial setting--or, for that matter, in any other setting. TheScotch (talk) 12:46, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
  • (Discuss)Papillon dogPapillon (dog breed) – This was moved back in September as part of a bulk RM of 27 different article titles on grounds of WP:NATURAL. However, when you propose 27 unrelated moves all at once, you don't really address whether on not the proposed titles actually fulfill NATURAL. NATURAL explicitly states it does not apply to "obscure or made-up names". "Papillon dog" is such an obscure name, Google Books Ngrams won't even graph it. Maybe bulk RMs of unrelated articles that don't discuss the relevance of the cited policy to each of the 27 different new titles being lumped together aren't such a good idea, perhaps? Egsan Bacon (talk) 02:00, 13 January 2018 (UTC)

January 12, 2018[edit]

  • (Discuss)Taiwan independence movementTaiwan independenceTaiwan independence movement means doing something to move from the status quo, for example, 1. Create a new state, 2. Renaming ROC, 3. Separate from China. On the other hand, Taiwan independence often mean an ideology that Taiwan should maintain its independence. This meaning is not capture by the original title, while the proposed title can mean all of them. Most importantly, the title Taiwan independence movement strongly suggest that the wrong idea that Taiwan is not independent.Golopotw (talk) 22:07, 12 January 2018 (UTC)
  • (Discuss)Substitution spliceStop trick – 1 - the term "substitution splice" is less common (check with Google books search), 2 - the term "substitution splice" is not as precise or correct (splicing can be an important part of the process, but is not the deciding factor: reasonable results are possible without splicing). The term "stop trick" is slightly more precise: also editing STOPS the action and the main purpose is to achieve the special effect; the TRICK. 3 - the term "substitution splice" is a relatively new academic fabrication (by Tom Gunning in 1989) and has not been very widely recognised outside academic circles, 4. the most famous practitioner Mélies is quoted as calling it "The trick-by-substitution, soon called the stop trick", thus suggesting a more precise name while accepting a commonly used name. (unfortunately the more precise and less ambiguous name "trick-by-substitution" is not as commonly recognizable.) Joortje1 (talk) 20:04, 12 January 2018 (UTC)
  • (Discuss)List of professional sports leagues by revenueList of sports competitions by revenue – I believe we should consider moving this page to a new page called "List of sports competitions by revenue" (since the professional part is redundant See this page for example). That way the list could be more comprehensive, and include other competitions that their comparison with the leagues in this list would gve better prespective to the financial impact of the leagues (for example FIFA World Cup, Olympic Games). In addition, some leagues are quite short (UEFA Champions League, NFL), and although I consider them as legitimate leagues, other people may disagree, and moving this page would make the distinction more clear. Please write what you think, I plan moving it next week unless I get too many objections. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SimTheWorld (talkcontribs) 19:08, 30 December 2017 (UTC) 00:45, 5 January 2018 (UTC) --Relisting. Ⓩⓟⓟⓘⓧ Talk 18:48, 12 January 2018 (UTC)
  • (Discuss)Magic (paranormal)Magic (study of religion) – For some time now, this article has been titled "Magic (paranormal)". I can appreciate why someone not familiar with the study of religion might feel that this is an appropriate title, for in the popular imagination 'magic' is generally associated with ghosts, spells, occultism, and all of that sort of 'spooky' or 'weird' stuff. However, as anyone familiar with the academic literature on this subject (Styers, Hanegraaff, etc) will tell you, this is fundamentally inappropriate. "Magic" is a conceptual category used by scholars for well over a century, and specifically refers to beliefs and practices that have been regarded as being separate from both 'religion' and 'science'. This is most certainly not the same thing as the "paranormal", which is a fairly recent catchall term used to refer to Ufology, cryptozoology, and ghosts, i.e. things regarded as being beyond the "normal". "Magic" and the "paranormal" are very different concepts, and there are no Reliable Sources presenting them as being the same. As part of my recent attempts to really pull this article into shape so that it accurately reflects what the best quality Reliable Sources actually say, I moved the article to "Magic (study of religion)". This is a far more appropriate title, although SnowFire undid my edit, suggesting that I bring the issue to Requested Moves. So that is precisely what I am doing. I hope that there are no objections to such a proposed move? Midnightblueowl (talk) 18:15, 12 January 2018 (UTC)
  • (Discuss)IDGAF (Dua Lipa song)IDGAF – Unnecessary dab page with only two main entries and the entries could be distinguished by hatnotes on each page. JE98 (talk) 17:08, 12 January 2018 (UTC)
  • (Discuss)Batak alphabetBatak script – The scripts mentioned are derivied from Indic script and behave like an Indic script. "An alphabet is a standard set of letters (basic written symbols or graphemes) that is used to write one or more languages based upon the general principle that the letters represent phonemes (basic significant sounds) of the spoken language." "An abugida /ˌɑːbʊˈɡiːdə/ (from Ge'ez: አቡጊዳ ’abugida), or alphasyllabary, also known as avugida, is a segmental writing system in which consonant–vowel sequences are written as a unit: each unit is based on a consonant letter, and vowel notation is secondary." Xbypass (talk) 15:22, 12 January 2018 (UTC)
  • (Discuss)Balinese alphabetBalinese script – Balinese alphabet is not an alphabet per definition. The page shall refer to the definition of the alphabet, not to the public misunderstanding. "An alphabet is a standard set of letters (basic written symbols or graphemes) that is used to write one or more languages based upon the general principle that the letters represent phonemes (basic significant sounds) of the spoken language." "An abugida /ˌɑːbʊˈɡiːdə/ (from Ge'ez: አቡጊዳ ’abugida), or alphasyllabary, also known as avugida, is a segmental writing system in which consonant–vowel sequences are written as a unit: each unit is based on a consonant letter, and vowel notation is secondary." Xbypass (talk) 15:12, 12 January 2018 (UTC)
  • (Discuss)Bahar Mustafa race row incident → ? – The current title is undesirable for several reasons: Bahar Mustafa is evidently not a WP:PUBLICFIGURE (evidently being not notable enough for a Wikipedia biography); her notability appears entirely tied to this one controversy; per WP:ONEEVENT, the "general rule" is to make the article about the event, not the person; the phrase race row is vague, and vaguely tabloid-like; who is "rowing" exactly? The article does not say; calling it the Bahar Mustafa race row incident is essentially implying, editorial-wise, that Bahar Mustafa is solely responsible for any "row" that may ensue. That is manifestly not WP:IMPARTIAL wording. There were also multiple incidents that attracted controversy, not just one "incident". The controversy concerned "several events at Goldsmiths, University of London in which white students, and in another case both white and male students, were banned" (quoting from the article). Suggested article titles include Goldsmiths University race (/racism) controversy and Goldsmiths University Student Union race (/racism) controversy (see § Page moved, above). I would favor the former as being more WP:CONCISE; since there are unlikely to be many such controversies at a single university, it's unnecessary to include Student Union in the title. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 10:30, 12 January 2018 (UTC)

January 11, 2018[edit]

  • (Discuss)Souls (series)Dark Souls (series) – There's no such thing as a "Souls" series. The series is officially known as Dark Souls and only has three games as of this writing. Demon's Souls is a separate IP that predated it and while it was made by the same developers and shares at least one character, it's otherwise not officially part of the series and shouldn't be treated as such. Jonny2x4 (talk) 16:10, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
  • (Discuss)AphriaAphria (genus) – Searching for "aphria" on Google, I don't get a single result on the fly genus, only the company. Even searching for "aphria fly" only yields wiki-results+pages about the company. The number of pageviews for Aphria Inc. (1206/30 days) is larger than that for this page (356), even though Aphria Inc. was deleted for part of the last 30 days. Mparrault (talk) 16:04, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
  • (Discuss)DKS (disambiguation)DKS – I see no indication that the small airport in a remote part of Russia is the primary redirect topic for this three-letter acronym. I would move this page and quash the existing redirect. bd2412 T 19:34, 4 January 2018 (UTC) --Relisting. Anarchyte (work | talk) 14:41, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
  • (Discuss)Upset (disambiguation)Upset – IMO, there is no clear primary topic for "upset". The current page that is there is mostly covered in Underdog. I think the disambiguation page should be located there. ZXCVBNM (TALK) 12:47, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
  • (Discuss)AC-6AC6 – Per precendent of articles like AC3, "AC6" and "AC-6" should be merged into a single disambiguation page. ZXCVBNM (TALK) 11:05, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
  • (Discuss)Squared circle (disambiguation)Squared circle – We should overwrite the redirect. "Squared circle" applies just as much to a boxing ring as a wrestling ring (and indeed the term was first coined to refer to a boxing ring). I don't think we should favor one over the other as the current arrangement does, in the name of neutrality. oknazevad (talk) 01:17, 11 January 2018 (UTC)

January 10, 2018[edit]

  • (Discuss)Winesburg, Ohio (town)Winesburg, Holmes County, Ohio – Establishing the standard name format for a settled place that needs to be distinguished from another article with the same place/state name combination. It is confusing for those who regularly edit place-name articles to see this Winesburg, which is unincorporated, referred to as a "town". (Having read through the discussion above, an alternative name could be "Winesburg (CDP), Ohio", if people feel the county name is not enough to distinguish the place from the novel. See the category of "Census-designated places in New Hampshire" as an example of the use of "(CDP)" in this manner.) Ken Gallager (talk) 19:48, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
  • (Discuss)International Decade for the Promotion of a Culture of Peace and Non-Violence for the Children of the WorldInternational Decade for a Culture of Peace and Non-Violence for the Children of the World – If one clicks on the United Nations resolution that established the Decade (see reference in first paragraph above), you will see that this is the title assigned by the UN. It would seem that the confusion arose because the title for the French version of the resolution includes "for the promotion of". In fact there were two, not one, discrepancies between the English and French versions of the resolution, since the French version also changes the order of peace and non-violence. By the way, the title of Wikipedia item for the French version, the "Décennie", is correct. In any case, the various events and documents published in English during the decade use the correct title, not the one that has hitherto been used in Wikipedia. See, for example above, the external link to the Website of Decade for a Culture of Peace. Adams1peace (talk) 18:18, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
  • (Discuss)Wikipedia:Sound/list → ? – Interesting resource, but it makes no sense as the subpage of a redirect. This should probably be a stand-alone page somewhere.  — SMcCandlish ¢ >ʌⱷ҅ʌ<  17:10, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
  • (Discuss)KielbasaKiełbasa – No downside. There's a long history, since the 1950s, of not being able to display the ł but now sources can Lonely Planet Poland (2016) : Kiełbasa and so does Wikipedia in other Category:Polish cuisine articles. The only problem I can see here is that to many readers (and sources), Kiełbasa is not Polish, but Polish-American, and therefore apparently pronounced "kilbasa" in Chicago, while in the UK this is pronounced [kʲɛwˈbasa] like Polish. I can understand that. However on balance this is an international Wikipedia, and therefore there is no downside to having the "-w" sound rather than the "-ll" sound in the title. In ictu oculi (talk) 12:02, 3 January 2018 (UTC) --Relisted.  Paine Ellsworth  put'r there  14:34, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
  • (Discuss)Mexican Federal HighwayMexico Federal Highway – If WP truly wants to shine itself as an international go to source then it really has to replace those practices, although suitable for use within a limited weltanschauung or country, are unsuitable in referencing the work and accomplishments of other countries. Roads have s birth but they do not have a nationality therefore referring to them as ians or ans is imposing a grammatical tool of English origin on a society that is Spanish and as such in order to better understand it should be expressed as such. Anything less calls to question just what is attempting to be achieved by WP. The US would not stand for Spanish grammar to be imposed on it as Mexico is as justified in not finding American grammar to be imposed on it. To "stick" to one grammar over the other is basically an act of imposition instead of spreading knowledge. It is not WP's role to pick a fight over just who's grammar has precedent when concerning international issues. That is the whole point of neutral tone. If WP is going to endorse that act of prejudice then it will only encounter problems that come of it. This is not an example of nationalism imposing itself on WP but enabling that institution to provide reliable and consistent information. Are we to compose an explanation about something one way in one country and yet another way in another country to appease buy not provide neutral content. Translation includes nuance and not merely the replacement of one word for the meaning of another without regard to the full context of the use and application. The long term implications of imposing a English grammar on a Spanish country should readily be recognised for its divisiveness so that it is for reasons other than pettiness that cause disruption later on. The other day when I was thinking that the world was flat I tried in vain to convince a friend that it was round. Nothing I could say or show could convince this person that Earth was round. But then a few days later after this person had an opportunity to come to a better understanding of what they thought and how they used language, especially in relation to what they thought was the flatness of earth, they started to increasingly accept that Earth was probably more round than flat. They have yet to understand the process of gravitation pull on shape, especially of an orbiting object. I cannot hold my weltanschauung hostage to the limited experience of others. I am use to dealing with people that are educated in English and communicate in all forms in English. I am use to dealing with people that are educated in a language other than English and can communicate in all forms in English. I am use to dealing with people that are dyslexic, have been or have not been educated in English or another non-English language and in their way communicate in their educated or social language. I am use to dealing with people that are deaf, have been or have not been educated in English or another non-English language and in their way communicate in their educated or social language. You may not see the subtlety of the situation but WP going international is very well placing itself into this type of developing world. Just because i may not be educated or speak in the language of a WP article in a non-English format does not mean that i am of the mind to endorse a WP that best expresses and encompasses prejudices, even if they are not recognised as such. There have been times in the history of Earth that just because a majority have accepted something does not make it suitable for the long term functionality of something. That is an issue that if not having been previously expressed is just what condition we have at hand. I will not even get into the existence of space aliens amongst us as there already seems to be a tiff just about Neanderthals. 2605:E000:9143:7000:6547:74C2:31CB:9098 (talk) 06:10, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
  • (Discuss)Penal law (British)Penal laws – . Although all the laws, no matter where the locality, were British. Logically speaking then, the articles referring to the penal laws of this period should be directed to this one. However, Penal laws should be the article name and the article Penal Laws (Ireland) be merged (and redirected) here. Penal laws and Penal Laws are currently redirects to Penal Laws (Ireland), with no option to investigate the other British penal laws of the period. The caveat is that there is a link at the top of the (Ireland) page which suggests that to investigate English penal laws, you should go to the Penal laws (British) page, which is inconsistent and inaccurate in and of itself. I'm hoping a more knowledgeable editor can fix up my proposal with regard to syntax and placement etc. Thanks in advance. (talk) 02:50, 10 January 2018 (UTC)

January 9, 2018[edit]

Elapsed listings[edit]

  • (Discuss)Circle of lifeCircle of Life (disambiguation) – When I first ran across this disambiguation page, I realized that there is probably a primary topic issue with the current situation of the pages related to the title "Circle of Life", but I wasn't sure at first what specifically to propose to fix it. Should I propose that the disambiguation page be moved to the base title page? Well, that was my first thought ... until I realized that I could not find an actual article regarding the concept of the circle of life; in fact, in the disambiguation page's current state, the line regarding the concept of the circle of life links the individual concepts in the circle rather than linking an existing article regarding the circle of life concept. So ... that means there's an article that probably should exist that doesn't. Anyways, with that being said, that essentially means that "Circle of Life", the song from The Lion King, is essentially the primary topic by default per the current set of existing articles ... until an article for the "circle of life" concept is created. So, without further ado, here's what I'm technically proposing: Move the disambiguation page to the title with "Life" capitalized since most of the entries on the disambiguation page represent titles of subjects with the word "Life" capitalized, then redirect Circle of life to Circle of Life, the song from The Lion King. Steel1943 (talk) 21:53, 24 December 2017 (UTC) --Relisting. bd2412 T 03:03, 2 January 2018 (UTC) --Relisting. ToThAc (talk) 14:27, 9 January 2018 (UTC)
  • (Discuss)Council of State (Finland)Finnish Government – The legislative body this page covers officially calls itself the "Finnish Government". There is little basis in literature for the current name, which appears to have been freely translated from Finnish or Swedish. Hence, in all official material and most news articles, the term "Finnish Government" is used: Official website, The previous discussion yielded an opposition vote, with no changes made to the page, although many seemed to not be content with the current name. Therefore, a new discussion is required. An additional change would be the merging of Government of Finland under Politics of Finland, as per User: as the counterparts in Norway and Denmark have done. The objective of this discussion is to land at a naming solution that works for everyone, and one that has an actual, factual basis. Pessimistipasta (talk) 11:25, 31 December 2017 (UTC)--Relisting.  samee  talk 08:49, 9 January 2018 (UTC)


  • (Discuss)CarbodiesLTI Limited – As the article now covers the history of this company after its name was changed to "LTI Limited" it seems reasonable per Wikipedia:NAMECHANGES to use the company's latest name. Note that although WP:NCCORP says that the legal status suffix of a company ("Limited" in this case) "is not normally included in the article title", it makes an exception for names that need disambiguating, as this one does to differeniate it from all the other LTIs. -- DeFacto (talk). 23:03, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
  • (Discuss)American Idol (ABC TV series)American Idol (season 16) – Even though the forthcoming season will be broadcast under a different network, it is still the same show under the parent article American Idol, and should be named using the same naming convention as previous season per WP:TVSEASON (i.e. name of the show, and then by the season number). ABC itself stresses the achievements of the previous seasons of the shows - [12], it is therefore just a continuation. There is the indication that ABC wants to see this season on its network as the first season of the show [13], but I'm not sure we should use this way of counting season as it is still the same show. Hzh (talk) 17:37, 6 January 2018 (UTC)


  1. ^ "Micheal Madanly versterkt Forward Lease" (in Dutch). 21 December 2017. Retrieved 21 December 2017.