Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents

Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents
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User: Δ / Betacommand violating community imposed sanctions

Resolved

 – No consensus to remove restrictions from Delta/Betacommand. I read through the entirety of the discussion, and find no plausible consensus to overturn or modify community imposed sanctions. I advise administrators to continue to follow the instructions in the community decided editing restrictions. Keegan (talk) 06:35, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

Note: if you wish to comment about Δ and other editors removing images from articles on claimed WP:NFCC grounds, please do so via the link below. - Wikidemon (talk) 19:09, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

• Extremely long conversation moved to Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents/Betacommand 2011. Moonriddengirl ^(talk)

  Nothing against Moonriddengirl, but if history has shown us anything, it's that the best way to make a complaint or proposal as regards Delta remain "unresolved", it's to dump it in his own personal ANI sub page (which for some inexplicable reason, he gets to personally set the archiving parameters of), which has never achieved anything in its long long existence except sweep his ongoing issues under the carpet. If there is any admin out there with the gumption to do so, please go and close those proposals affirmatively, with a proper summary, addressing all concerns & comments. I shouldn't have to say, but on past experience I need to, this shouldn't be an admin who has commented in the discussion either way, or has an identifiable undue interest in NFCC as a topic of debate either way. And while your at it, will one of you please, at the third time of asking, go and close the well overdue Rfc on banknote images at Talk:Non-free content, because Delta is still seeking to claim even in the backdrop of ANI threads about is his behaviour in NFCC enforcement, that the consenus on such things is unsurprisingly, how he wants to assert it is, rather than how it proveably is through actual discussion of the actual issue, by editors other than his select band of self appointed NFCC experts/enforcers. To leave these sorts of things unclosed when Delta's chosen approach continues to be a cause of such division, is frankly inexcusable. And despite what is claimed there, in circumstances like banknotes articles, how much is 'too much' as regards WP:NFCC, is an issue for en:wiki consensus alone, and has absolutely nothing to do with the Foundation or its resolution, unless or until they make a specific comment on specific usage situations, which they never have, and never will, for understandable reasons. MickMacNee (talk) 17:58, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

  It's not a bad way to organize things when a single issue overwhelms a discussion page. For what it's worth, that discussion can and should stay open until it is resolved. - Wikidemon (talk) 19:01, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

  Seriously...we finally get a clear majority on a proposal and we have someone derail the conversation with an improper close, and then I come back and someone has moved it off the noticeboard to a subpage. If we'd let the conversation go we might have actually got a resolution now.--Crossmr (talk) 22:56, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

• Doesn't this need a future date to keep it from scrolling off?--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 22:01, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

• It might now. It didn't when I did it, though, because I used three tildes. :) MickMacNee, sorry if this squelches conversation in any way; it's not my intention, but 300,000 bytes on ANI is just too much. :/ It was over 2/3rds of the page. Crossmr, it's standard to remove conversations that overwhelm this page; that's why the instructions for doing so are right there at the top, under "How to use this page". --Moonriddengirl ^(talk)

• I've moved the latest comment about the situation to the subpage. I will be moving any conversation that belongs at that subpage to it, unless there is consensus to restore the whole 300,000+ bytes to ANI. It's inappropriate to fracture it and have conversation in two places. Moonriddengirl ^(talk)

• I'd suggest that this was a sub-optimal but perfectly understandable response. Yes, the page was getting huge, and was totally domination this page. However, as has been noted above, past indications are that subpaging leaves only the "partisan warriors" involved. (I'm not just talking about pages realting to Betacommand, but other editors perceived-by-some-as-problematic who've been "subpaged" as well.) The topic ban discussion was preceding independent of the squabbling, I'd like to see that section restored. - Aaron Brenneman (talk) 01:42, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

• Also, can we agree on some naming convention or something to make these easier to find/organise? - Aaron Brenneman (talk) 01:53, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

• If consensus emerges to support the now 354,000 bytes of this conversation to take over ANI, then, certainly, we should restore the entire conversation. Restoring a single section would be a bad idea, as it does not give a complete overview of the conversation to anybody stumbling upon it now. But, respectfully, if ANI has never been able to resolve issues with Δ, then perhaps ANI is not the best forum for it. --Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 11:36, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

I wish to highlight this person aswell, I have tried to come to middle ground he just point blanks reuses, I have even moved the pic and cut them back to how there were done for the PAST 18 MONTH, so either he off his head of wiki have never cared before? I have stated in talk page and each pic talk description aswell, yet there not good enough, I have state there needed to better explain page, I also found its DAM cheek him he the one that in the edit war AND also placing the warning to me, Judge and jury?— Preceding unsigned comment added by Crazyseiko (talk • contribs)

• I think we need a bit of organisation here. We seem to have various Delta/Beta subpages spread out. Heck, the Delta/Beta archive pages aren't even all subpages of the same parent. I totally agree with moving all this stuff to different pages, so the rest of ANI can flourish, but the way it is at the moment is all very confusing.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Dorsal Axe (talk • contribs)

I have no idea what on earth this means, but it does not help me, and also seams that if this Admin is correct then for the past 18month, umpteen admins have failed in the duties.

Previous subpages

1. Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents/Betacommand 2011
2. Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents/Betacommand is making automated edits
3. Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents/Block review of User:Betacommand
4. Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents/I have blocked Betacommand
5. Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Betacommand/Archive 1
6. Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Betacommand/Archive 2
7. Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Betacommand/Archive 3
8. Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Betacommand/Archive 4
9. Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Δ/Archive 5
10. Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Δ/Archive 6
11. Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents/User:Betacommand socks
12. Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Betacommand blocked for sockpuppetry

Reverting of subpage

Please see Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard#Subpaging. In support of the principle above (which I objected to!) I attempted to move the sanction-lifting proposal to the subpage, but was reverted by Beta. I'm cross-posting both to add the timestamp, also because I consider this an "incident" and I'm requesting adminstrator action: Either move the new proposal to the subpage or bring the old one back, please. - Aaron Brenneman (talk) 04:19, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

• I think it was highly inappropriate for the subject of this ongoing ANI thread to fracture the conversation by starting a new section at AN, and I have said as much at AN. Since he reverted your subpaging his new thread and since there is some disagreement from evidently involved (I haven't had time to check deeply), I've transcluded the subpage to AN so that everyone can see the entire history of that conversation. (ETA: Had to reduce that to a link, as an e-mail I received informs me that it is creating load issues...which is why it was subpaged to begin with.) Moonriddengirl ^(talk)

Cross posting from Edit warring noticeboard

Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring#WP3RRN_Delta7July2011 Sorry for the crossposting, but this discussion is everywhere... I've placed a notice at the edit warring noticeboard concerning Delta. - Aaron Brenneman (talk) 00:31, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

Any uninvolved administrators left?

We have a proposal on the subpage that has been open for 6 days. It' has a nearly 2/3's majority support, and the support has actually grown since it's been subpaged. At some point we need someone to step in enact the proposal that the community has clearly supported and clearly given plenty of time to considering.--Crossmr (talk) 08:26, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

Community sanctions are imposed through consensus. A "nearly 2/3's majority" obviously means "no consensus". Fut.Perf. ☼ 08:32, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

I regrettably agree with that; however, the circumstances, increasing numbers of supporting administrators, and clear overwhelming majority opinion (short of the usual 80% community consensus standard for such cases) basically require that we file an arbcom case to enact that outcome now. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 08:54, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

There is no hard line of 80% at Wikipedia:CONSENSUS. It's currently at around 29/17 or 32/17 depending on exactly how you count it (3 users seem to support, but didn't explicitly label their comments support), which shows far more than a simple majority. This isn't some 18/17 split, and the discussions has obviously been trending towards support, in the last 5 days the discussion has run 9/3 in favor of support.--Crossmr (talk) 09:40, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

As the proposer there I have an obvious bias in favor of the proposal; I also have, as an uninvolved administrator done a lot of community consensus closes. I would not close this one, at this time, as enacted. One might relist it to gather additional input, but that's already been effectively done by the high profile nature of the case. Arbcom exists in large part to deal with situations "stuck in the middle" sufficiently that the consensus criteria can't be met. The supermajority we have here justifies action, but not community consensus enactment of the topic ban. It does justify a "community patience exhausted" arbcom case. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 09:50, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

Then as the proposer will you file this?--Crossmr (talk) 11:37, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

Georgewilliamherbert is right: none of the proposals in the subpage, pro-Δ or anti-Δ, have reached consensus or are likely to. 28bytes (talk) 12:03, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

How could they when they're closed/shuffled around and constantly disrupted? However, I still don't see anything in consensus that necessitates an 80% majority, nor even a supermajority. What I do see is a rather clean unambiguous majority supporting a ban.--Crossmr (talk) 12:38, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

Comment: the strength of consensus needed depends a bit on the severity of the sanctions being discussed. The proposal was an indefinite topic ban with limited exceptions for discussion: "Δ is topic-banned by the community from image fair use process activity including tagging or removals. This does not apply to policy discussions or development." Consensus for that is debatable (though getting there). But I would suggest that consensus is strong enough to support my more limited version: "make it temporary (3 months), and make it clear that all activity except image removal is allowed." This gets to the core of the matter, and ensures that things like the current proposals for Delta disambiguation fixing and NFCC 10c notification are unaffected. It would seem to me a highly constructive compromise; perhaps a brave admin is willing to declare it. Otherwise, Arbcom could be asked to pass it as an interim measure or something. PS As part of the discussion about a bot Delta has already said "If this is implemented I will stop my mass removals for six months...", while in the subpage discussion some exceptions for the "no removals" approach were suggested. On both counts, simplicity wins: "no removals" is simple to follow and simple to enforce - and given the vast amounts of collective energy expended on enforcement around these issues, that counts for a lot. Rd232 public ^talk 10:17, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

Except people weren't indicating their support for your version so you can't use their support for a different thing. Delta's proposal, and his offer, is frankly insulting "I'll stop being disruptive if you grant me this exception". That simply cannot fly. Him stopping his disruption can't be based on the community granting him an exception. With that statement he's acknowledging that he knows his behaviour is disruptive and doesn't have full consensus.--Crossmr (talk) 11:22, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

Crossmr, Nothing will ever have full consensus. What I stated was I would stop mass removals for 6 months to see if the talkpage tagging and DaB repair system was effective, if they are not, Ill continue, removal is the most effective method for solving NFC issues. ΔT _{^{The only constant}} 11:29, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

No, it isn't. Effect simply cannot be measured by how quickly you reduce the amount of non-compliant images, because there is a far more reaching effect to your behaviour. The effectiveness is greatly reduced when you enter into conflicts, piss off users, chase them away from the project, needlessly edit war, and remove some (not all) images from articles that should in fact actually have them. You've had dozens, possibly hundreds of users try to explain this to you over the years.Nowhere does it indicate in NFCC that you must do those things. Those actions are entirely your own choice.--Crossmr (talk) 11:35, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

"so you can't use their support for a different thing" - yes, a completely different thing, apples and oranges. No wait, they're both fruit, that's too similar. Moondust and crocodile clips? No, they're both physical objects. Frogs and fridays? Well anyway, completely different. There's just no way that a near-consensus for a fairly complete indefinite topic ban could be translated by way of compromise into consensus for a lesser, time-limited topic ban that enables productive solutions to be explored. No way. So, best do nothing, as usual. (Heck, in this case, if Delta's bot happens and he puts mass removals on hold, it may not work out too badly.) Rd232 public ^talk 15:51, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

For what it's worth, though I didn't say so in the community ban proposal, I think Rd232's proposal in conjunction with Beta's proposal is entirely acceptable as far as I am concerned. It was extremely healthy for Rd232, as someone else who wasn't otherwise closely involved, to propose alternate solutions that might have more community support. It would take a very bold uninvolved admin to close and enact that under the circumstances, but perhaps such does exist. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 17:36, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

Crossmr states that the proposal was "constantly disrupted" yet still wants the ban to be enacted. ? With respect, doesn't make sense. I noted before in that debate, and will repeat here; if you want to enact a ban on Δ, then start an RfC where evidence can actually be laid out, responded to, and considered in a fair and equitable way. This scattering across multiple boards, with closings/unclosings, etc. isn't yielding a proper process to cause someone to be banned for anything. --Hammersoft (talk) 13:28, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

Yes, because despite the disruption there is still clear support for it. Delta discussions generally generate huge amounts of respondents, except when people do things like that have been done here. If people thought it was going to take 70 or 80 people to make the decisions, they really shouldn't have done what they did, however we still have a very clear majority. I've twice posted several incidents of Delta inappropriately responding to users and causing conflict with his behaviour. There is plenty of evidence of his on-going issues when handling NFCC disputes.--Crossmr (talk) 22:34, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

• Do you see what you're saying? Despite the disruption? Do you not see that the disruption has made the discussion completely invalid? Last I bothered to check, there was a clear majority to remove one of his restrictions. Should we apply that too? The best bet for your own sake if you want his head on a pike is to start an RfC. That will carry clear validity if it holds to uphold the additional sanctions you keep begging for. --Hammersoft (talk) 00:01, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

• An RfC is pointless. The years of discussion we've had has been an RfC. An RfC is a non-binding process that drags on for months and means nothing. Last I checked there is no support remove any restrictions. There was support to grant an exception for a specific task, that isn't remotely the same thing. The proposal was supported before it was moved to the sub-page, the majority wasn't as big, but it still existed.--Crossmr (talk) 16:15, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

A note about User: Δ / Betacommand

I've resolved the latest conversations as no consensus and we keep in place community sanctions. I'm quite tired of hearing "we ignore them" or "this user gets away with (fill in the blank)".

No matter who the user is, if they are under ArbCom or community sanctions and edit in a way that violates the ruling, administrators need to uphold the ruling and block if need be, or no block at all/unblock if the situation is outside the scope. We have community sanctions for a reason. Keegan (talk) 06:46, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

Not that I'm not neutral in the whole affair, but for gods sake, can we please not say or do anything related to Delta at this or any other noticeboard until the ArbCom Motion is over. I don't care if he sets the server farms in Tampa on fire, keep it off of every other page and take it to the ArbCom motion page. Sven Manguard Wha? 07:46, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

Concur with Svan (and I'm not neutral in the whole affair either). Let's let the ArbCom ruling continue and see what happens of it. Short of appealing to Jimbo himself, this matter is already at WP's Supreme Court. Additional discussion here is pointless. Buffs (talk) 02:15, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Laughs ...Svan? Err... alrighty then. I don't know why that's hilarious, but it is. Sven Manguard Wha? 02:26, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

As far as I can tell, the topic-ban discussion isn't marked as resolved. Keegan, was your intent to do so? Hobit (talk) 21:24, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

I think it was, but since he hasn't specified, I closed it. Regards, causa sui (talk) 06:24, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Malik Shabazz

Resolved

 – Protected for a week. Talk it out, please. And also note that 3RR/24h is a bright line, not an entitlement

Malik Shabazz is intentionally interrupting an article and edit warring. We should expect more from admins. I am requesting that another admin gives him some nice advice.

• [revert of something agreed upon after discussion (note edited diff)
• malicious edit after a barb from another editor
• revert

Current talk page discussion: NONE (Isn't more expected from an admin)

Previous talk page discussion: [1] (The whole issue stems from presenting something graphic in both a positive and negative light, bringing in hair color is a red herring that is only there to cause disruption and make a point. But he didn;t even bother to look at the discussion it looks like since he did not use the talk page)

Notification of bad form with a request to stop: [2]

Cptnono (talk) 06:04, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

First, on June 16 I fixed the caption. I fixed it again tonight. Cptnono's knickers are in a knot because (a) there is no Talk page consensus for the caption he likes, and (b) "unsmiling" in a caption is as meaningful as "brown-haired" or "black-haired". — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 06:11, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

I wear boxers. But you again have demonstrated that you are not suitable as an admin.

I assume that you started playing with the article since you have want to rock the I/P boat. Why now are you starting trouble and not months ago when consensus was formed (have you looked at the archives yet?). But my last message to you says it all.[3] Stop starting trouble over stupid stuff and consider giving up the mop if you turn this into an ongoing concern. But yes: "Whatever" until you do it again.Cptnono (talk) 06:16, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

(edit conflict) I usually give Cptnono more credit, but tonight he's off his game. His first diff isn't mine. This was my edit on June 16. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 06:19, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

• [4] And another revert even though a talk page link was provided. Request a block to prevent disruption and a return to the stable version that had consensus. Malik has responded twice with WhateverWhatever

I will be reverting after 24hrs just to stay on the right side of 3/rr even though it is clearly malicious. Cptnono (talk) 06:20, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

There is nothing malicious. You have yet to show the alleged Talk-page consensus for the word "unsmiling" in the caption (hint: there is none). — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 06:22, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

See the archived discussion up above. Then self revert. The apologize for intentionally disrupting the article and edit warring. Even if there was not consensus (which there was) you are not acting like an admin and it is time you self revert. Then you should be stripped of the mop if this is how you conduct yourself. Note that I am not an admin since I tend to enjoy watching people squirm in situations like this. Cptnono (talk) 06:24, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

How about this: Neither of the words are in the caption. It's ONE word, which has almost no meaning in the article. You could say that it was a woman with fingernails and it would have about the same use as brown hair, or unsmiling. Grow up, both of you. Pilif12p 06:30, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

That's fine with me. I'm not a fan of belaboring the obvious. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 06:38, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Growing up isn't the issues (and if it is then certainly he should not be trusted to eb an admin). If you see the archived discussion you see that "unsmiling" was added specifically to add a balance to the article so that it did not look like porn. Finger nails and hair color have nothing to do with it. Carefully using images is. Malik has intentionally thrown off that consensus that was hard to reach. Is he allowed to edit war? So if MS is allowed to the I will revert again. Any objections?Cptnono (talk) 06:40, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Alright, fair enough. I have to agree with Cptnono at this point, anybody, especially admins shouldn't be allowed to do this. I read over the talk archive, and it did seem like there was a consensus to change it to his wording. *clears history* Pilif12p 06:53, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

BTW, pure and simple vandalism from an admin and he will get away with it. AGF is dead. I will be reverting in 24/hrs even though I should do it now (I don't trust the admins and it is a shame when an established editor cannot)Cptnono (talk) 06:47, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

But mark this as resolved. I will be continuing the edit war the admin started in 24hrs.Cptnono (talk) 06:52, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

How about both of you stop editing the article for a couple of days and talk it out on the talk page? Seriously. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 06:53, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

No. There was a talk page discussion. MS has intentionally edit warred AND left the article with a POINTY edit. If an admin can do it I can. And if admins do not see the problem with him then I will do it for them. How about YOU actually make a judgement? And just to be clear: I am pissed because IPs add things like "nigger" to the article and I have been holding the fort down. When an admin choses to spit in my face I am going to be pissed. Lok at the article and the caption then tell me he should be editing.Cptnono (talk) 06:54, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

(after edit conflict) This looks like a pretty dumb edit war, but I do not see egregious conduct on either side. This edit (and the followups) by Malik do seem rather pointy but I would not call it vandalism, and based on the above comment I don't think he'll be adding it again. A block or Malik losing adminship do not seem to me to be appropriate responses to this situation.

Really you should both be using the talk page, as GWH said. In December three editors, including Cptnono, agreed on the "unsmiling" language, but of course consensus can change. Go talk about it or else just let it alone, since this is an incredibly trivial issue. --Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 06:58, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

• Wikipedia:Bringing the smartest people in the world together so they can argue about cumshots. What a place.--Yaksar (let's chat) 07:00, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

• • If this continues it will come close to if not outright win the lamest edit war of the year so far award. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 07:04, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
    • Although the humor is not lost on me over this. It is a shame that people see it as a joke. Whatever: more donkey punching and less editing constructively. Cptnono (talk) 07:07, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
      • Not really sure how to interpret your last sentence Cptnono, but please don't take the fact that no one is rushing to block or de-admin Malik as justification for you to "be as disruptive as (him) now". Malik should not have made the initial pointy edit to begin with and neither of you should have revert warred. You should talk about it on the talk page, or one or both of you can give up and leave it alone. This is a pretty minor dust-up and I don't want to see you bothered by it to the point that you actively decide to be disruptive, since that won't be good for anyone. If it helps try stepping back for a bit and then coming back to this tomorrow or the next day. --Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 07:18, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
        • Sorry for not being clear: Donkey punch as an image that is either terrible or hilarious depending on your disposition. But I am stepping away for at least a day since it is time for bed. But I am reverting after 24. But I do realize that MS will not be desysopped. I am almost surprised he was not blocked but I m even more surprised that he was not even given a talking to. This was pointless and now we know that admins really can do whatever they want because the community just doesn't care. You will block an IP vandal but not an admin. And editors like me obviously fall in between. Toothless .Cptnono (talk) 07:26, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
          • You seem to want a punitive block, but we don't do that here. Neither of you are edit warring right now, and Malik's comment above suggested he's not even interested in adding his version back but rather would be happy if neither of your versions were there and we just described her as a woman. Block are preventive, and there is just nothing to prevent here. I would agree with you that admins, unfortunately, get away with bad behavior that non-admin editors would not and that this happens far too frequently. But as I said to begin with the editing behavior here, while far from stellar, was not egregious. Saying "knock it off, talk about this instead of edit warring" seems like the right action for an involved admin to take. --Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 07:41, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
            • Repeated promises to revert after 24 hours? Not good. 3RR isn't a personal allowance of three reverts per day; it's a bright line. Continuing to revert rather than discuss (or proceed to dispute resolution or whatever) would be editwarring. Article content should not be decided by whoever hits the revert button most (or whoever has the most careful timing of their reverts). bobrayner (talk) 10:34, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
              • Whatever mistakes were made here, how is there any suggestion of vandalism anyway? Do we need to point out as WP:Vandalism says, vandalism is not all bad edits to an article? If you're going to ask for blocks, you really should be aware of that already (as well as blocks not being punitive and 3RR not being a right) Nil Einne (talk) 12:36, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

• I'm not about to edit this page from my current location, just to be on the safe side, but the best solution here would be for someone to full-protect and demand that the participants in this silly little slapfight actually talk it over instead of poking one another with sticks and admin noticeboards. Anyone? Tony Fox (arf!) 17:28, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

• Yup. Protected for a week, if only to save Cptnono from being blocked the moment he tries to game the 24h bright line. Black Kite (t) (c) 20:59, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

• So why is MS allowed to edit war and I am not? He has edited against the previous consensus and now the article is protected. There is nothing to talk about since we had consensus. When consensus changes then the caption should be reduced. Until then you have just awarded a editor for edit warring.Cptnono (talk) 01:58, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

And if it wasn't vandalism it was certainly pointy and malicious. If you want to play word games then fine but that does not change the fact that MS intentionally disrupted the article to make a point. So how do you defend him now?Cptnono (talk) 02:00, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

I'm not defending anyone. However, protection is the usual response to a continuing edit war, especially when one editor declares their intent to carry on doing it. Black Kite (t) (c) 09:44, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

User: Dzlinker/Omar2788

Hello,

I'm asking for help to convince the user Dzlinker (a SP of Omar2788 [5] according to Fr.Wiki [6], this account started to edits on WP on July 27th while the main account was blocked) to stop his disruptive editings:

- Removing a sourced information on the article Fossatum Africae, until I quoted the entire sentence, while a Ctrl+F on the PDF file used as source would give him a result: [7].

- Article Maghreb people: Adding a template which is wider than the article itself [8] and refusing any further edits [9]. The same problem occured on the article Berber people a few weeks ago [10].

Also, some "aggressive comments" should not be tolerated: [11] [12] nor the use of a Pro-Nazi template on his Userpage [13] (in the beginning the template was looking like that : [14].

Thanks.

Omar-Toons (talk) 15:58, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

User notified. GiantSnowman 16:12, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

it's true this is another account of mine that i abandoned lately (not to bypass a block on the en.WP)

i've been blocked on the fr.WP so i totally abandoned that account (i kept the commons and meta ones)

Article Maghreb people: the guy refused any constructive talk about the infobox, and deleted every thing i wrote, it was really a hard work to do; as any one can see here, the width is totally acceptable, and the infobox is totally representative of the maghreb people, and this accusations 'disruptive editings is totally unacceptable. any one could verify my edits and be sure that they are constructive.

the source he provided on Fossatum Africae is useless in that case i asked him for another more complete and he kept reverting without consensus, trying to impose his PoV as he always do like on the article maghreb people where he refused any talk.

This guy is really not a wikipedian, since his principal edits are political and symbolic such as inserting: french algeria, french morcco instead of algeria and morocco, into biographical articles (so not historical) and refused talking on this page here. here are some of those unacceptable and undiscussed edits: [15] [16] [17] [18] [19] [20] [21] [22] [23] [24] [25] [26] and many others.

He says that algeria was internationaly recognized to be french. but this statut is dead, an article written in the early 20th or late 19th centry who says that would be acceptable. but today its totally false and confusing with the Algérie française (fr:french Algeria) slogan.

for the berber people article, as any one could see here i'm one of the editors who've edited the most on the article (then i was editing as User:Omar2788). and this discussion about the infobox images prove my good willing in that.

Also the accusations of my agressif comments are really too much saying. any one would agree that if a wikipedian work, is to spy over other ones edits continually every day to revert them or ..

no one could support it.

not talking about this same attitude he got when i was editing on the fr.WP. (he is like chasing my edits every where), i really don't support that

no one could support it.

Omar2788 (talk) 17:22, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Two remarks:

- Putting "Algeria" instead of "French Algeria" is PoV. Whatever the Algerian PoV, it was internationally recognised that Algeria was part of France (departements like Corsica or Alpes-Maritimes), not a colony, people born there should, imho, be considered as "Born in France" (as Staline was born in the Tiflis governorate of the Russian Empire, not in Georgia), but since this is my opinion but that the consensual use is to put "French Algeria" instead of "france", I accept that, while some people seem to not be able to accept that their PoV isn't accepted bu others. This was an example, and I don't think that nationalistic PoV has its place on WP.

- You edited the article Berber people 34 times (as Omar2788), but you forgot to tell us that 30 of these edits were reverted by 6 different users because they were against consensus?

I have nothing more to say about that.

Omar-Toons (talk) 08:38, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

again unfounded and unproved accusations

take a look to the Talk page of the concerned article, you'll see if any conflictual edit h'v been made without consensus.

putting french .. instead of Algeria is YOUR point of view, just keep things as they were before your symbolic Uncyclopedic edits (it was Algeria in all the concerned articles before you come by)

why making those changes massively one after another if your intentions were good??

Dzlinker (talk) 15:21, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Legal threat from Oursaint (talk · contribs)

Oursaint (talk · contribs · count · logs · page moves · block log) has been adding unsourced material to Catherine of Alexandria and today came out with this legal threat. Elizium23 (talk) 16:54, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Due to the nature of his edits I have come to believe that this user has a conflict of interest with regards to the article and the film mentioned. Elizium23 (talk) 16:56, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

I'm not seeing a legal threat against Wikipedia or any Wikipedia editor here. The edit appears to state there was a legal challenge regarding the production of the film, which would be both notable and relevant in the article. Any WP:COI issue should be brought up at the appropriate noticeboard. --Alan the Roving Ambassador (talk) 17:04, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Edit summary -- Your persistence in reinstating libellous information leaves us no option but to start legal action -- seems pretty clear to me.

Good catch. I didn't see the edit summary in the diff. --Alan the Roving Ambassador (talk) 17:08, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

• Blocked and NLT template added. Looking forward to hearing some reasonings although I cannot, of course, take further action (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 17:11, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
• The legal threat is certainly unacceptable. On the other hand part of the content being removed is a serious acusation sourced only to a dead link of a (for lack of better term) involved website. Can anyone give me a reason why at minimum the last 2 sentences should not be removed?--Cube lurker (talk) 17:22, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

I've made a partial removal here[27]. Any restoration needs to be based on verifiability and not on any behavior of Oursaint.--Cube lurker (talk) 17:52, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Stanford professor complains about his BLP

I just noticed that Ron Fedkiw, a tenured professor at Stanford, is rather upset at his Wikipedia article and has posted about it on his web site: http://physbam.stanford.edu/~fedkiw/

I'm not sure what's going on at Ronald_Fedkiw but since Ron's message alleges serious BLP issues, someone might want to take a detailed look. TotientDragooned (talk) 17:29, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Looks like it's already being dealt with via OTRS - see Talk:Ronald Fedkiw#Misleading details -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 17:46, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

I wish people wouldn't always instantly resort to legal threats. - Burpelson AFB ✈ 18:01, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

(removing less diplomatic phrasing) I feel his depiction of the situation is unprofessional, which diminishes my sympathies for what is, in fairness, a frustrating situation if there are BLP inaccuracies.MatthewVanitas (talk) 18:06, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Is it really necessary to attack the professor at this point? Monty₈₄₅ 18:13, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

I'm curious how this works out because there are some odd discrepancies going around. The article creator says he was in contact with the subject when he created the article, and says "he didn't have much of a problem with it." Further, when the subject of the article, editing as an IP, removed a picture from the article saying that he had nothing to do with what it represents, the article creator reverted (clearly not knowing who he was reverting), saying that the article subject had himself said that the picture was "the best example of his work." That's a rather odd series of mis-communications.Griswaldo (talk) 18:18, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

What I find even odder is that a computer science professor apparently made it to 2011 without having the slightest idea of what Wikipedia is, or how it works (to judge by his rant). Theoldsparkle (talk) 20:19, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Oh my. You have just given a striking example of how misinformation gets into Wikipedia by saying this man "made it to 2011 without having the slightest idea of what Wikipedia is". He said no such thing. In his "rant" he said it had come to his attention that Wikipedia has incorrect information about him, not that he didn't know about Wikipedia or had never previously visited it. Burpleson's comment -- "I wish people wouldn't always "instantly resort to legal threats" -- is another good example of misinformation getting in to Wiki. Fedkiw is quoted by TonyTheTiger Jclemens at Talk:Ronald Fedkiw#Misleading details as saying "he has tried to have corrections made to the article, but been reverted". So he didn't "instantly resort to legal threats" at all. If a BLP subject sees inaccuracies in an article about him then we should fix them with good grace rather than have "editors" taking silly inaccurate potshots at him. And, instead of asking why some resort to legal threats, shouldn't we instead be asking why they feel they have to? Moriori (talk) 21:09, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

It was not TonyTheTiger, but Jclemens who said that. It's not that hard to make a informational mistake now is it? :).Griswaldo (talk) 21:38, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

No, now let me know how my edit tipped shit on a blp subject like the ones I mentioned. Moriori (talk) 22:13, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Well it's pretty obvious that it didn't, but that wasn't my point. I feel very strongly in favor of strict BLP policies and responsible editing of BLP entries. You don't have to convince me of that. I was just saying it's easy to make small mistakes. It is always better if we AGF when we see them and try to fix the problem in a collegial way. I can't blame someone who is unfamiliar with Wikipedia for getting angry about misinformation in their own entry, but I think we should know better than to get too worked up over it. The diffs I posted above, also suggest some serious mis-communication if Tony is correct. This could even have come from the subject himself. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 01:53, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Moriori: Yes, if I were editing his article to say that he had no idea what Wikipedia was, and citing his rant as my reference, you would have quite a good reason to remove that statement. If, instead, I were making an offhand comment on a Talk page that my subjective interpretation of his rant indicated he was surprised to learn that anybody could edit Wikipedia, and that Wikipedia's content is not governed by an "editorial board", I'd feel pretty comfortable with that -- and, oddly enough, I do. Seriously, who acts as shocked as he does to find mistakes in a Wikipedia article? Theoldsparkle (talk) 22:16, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

You need to read our official BLP policy which applies to all pages/content in Wikipedia, including what you describe as "an offhand comment on a Talk page". You can feel as comfortable as you like about the "interpretation" you take from what someone says, but if he didn't say it, then it has no place in Wikipedia. He didn't indicate he was surprised by anything. More misinformation. You ask, who acts as shocked as he does to find mistakes in a Wikipedia article? I'd guess it would include anyone who needs to apologise to colleagues whose work has been attributed to him by Wikipedia. Maybe he has gone over the top here, but the fact remains the BLP sucked and when the subject tried to get it rectified there were Wikipedians who attacked the subject. Where did the ideals of Wikipedia go?. Moriori (talk) 23:03, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

To put it bluntly, Wikipedia, for a lot of older people, falls into the category of "stupid nerd internet shit". Just because you are familiar with it doesn't mean you should assume that everyone is. A very large percentage of internet users only use the Internet to look at email and youtube and so forth. Jtrainor (talk) 20:52, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

This guy is a CS professor. He falls squarely in the group that is universally aware of "stupid nerd internet shit". Bobby Tables (talk) 21:07, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

• I'm not sure what the subject's problem is--I wish they had said so. What I'd like to know is that the "Omniscient Technology" section is doing in the article. What does it matter that one professor had his office next to our subject's? Since when is it notable what someone is teaching next semester? (for all you ninjas out there, I'm teaching Early World Lit and Advanced English Grammar in the fall, and my office is next to Blake's) I'm removing that section: I don't see how it's relevant, and surely this isn't an acceptable source in a BLP. Drmies (talk) 21:04, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Off topic.

What version of Advanced English Grammar do you teach that permits singular to become plural, as in "I'm not sure what the subject's problem is--I wish they had said so"? ); — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.58.93.58 (talk) 21:46, 11 July 2011 (UTC) Using "they" in the third-person singular is actually extremely common, and not necessarily an error nowadays, though "he" would have been preferable since Ron's gender is obvious. TotientDragooned (talk) 22:05, 11 July 2011 (UTC) English lacks a gender-neutral singular pronoun, lots of people use 'they' because it is the closest thing we have. It might be technically-incorrect, but it is used a LOT, because if you don't know the gender of the person, and you don't want to accidentally offend, you say "they" instead of the old default of "he". -- Avanu (talk) 22:19, 11 July 2011 (UTC) I've known University-level English teachers who think the singular "they" is just fine. English is not cast in stone. And if the drive-by IP dislikes the singular "they", just wait: How about the oft-heard possessive of the southernism "y'all", as "y'all's"? Or the oft-heard possessive of the northernism "you guys", as "your guys"? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 22:28, 11 July 2011 (UTC) I prefer "yous guys." Or is that the proper spelling? I don't remember seeing it in print. ‡ MAHEWA ‡ • talk 22:31, 11 July 2011 (UTC) Not only not an error nowadays, but not an error in olden days either: FRIAR LAURENCE 71 Arise; one knocks; good Romeo, hide thyself. ROMEO 72 Not I; unless the breath of heartsick groans, 73 Mist-like, infold me from the search of eyes. FRIAR LAURENCE 74 Hark, how they knock!—Who's there?—Romeo, arise; 75 Thou wilt be taken.—Stay awhile!—Stand up; Romeo and Juliet, Act 3, Scene 3. Shakespeare knew a thing or two about English and wasn't afraid to use the "singular they". It's an elegant, gender-neutral construction, and more people ought to use it. 28bytes (talk) 22:16, 11 July 2011 (UTC) "Speakers of [American Eglish] resist this development more than speakers of [British English], in which the indeterminate they is already more or less standard. That it sets many literate Americans' teeth on edge is an unfortunate obstacle to what promises to be the ultimate solution to the problem." Garner's Modern American Usage ‡ MAHEWA ‡ • talk 22:27, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

• And I removed the weightlifting section--yes, there was a section on weightlifting, sourced to the subject's website. I find it difficult to understand how that was retained after GA review, but that's another matter. Drmies (talk) 21:09, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
• Sorry I'm late, but yes, I've got the OTRS ticket on this one, and will be fielding feedback from the subject. Feel free to hit me up on my talk page or on the article's talk page. I really don't see anything much more for ANI to do here, now that multiple editors have had their attention to this topic, I expect things will be gone over with a fine-toothed comb and be rectified quickly. Jclemens (talk) 02:19, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Editor adding unreferenced info to BLPs and socking

Magoohoo (talk · contribs) seems to have a history of adding unreferenced info, including defamatory info, to BLPs. For an example, see [28]. The editor has been reverted multiple times and warned multiple times, but has continued to reinsert the info over a period of time. The editor also seems to be using an IP to sock, even commenting on his own account talk page in an effort to mislead. See [29] and [30]. - Burpelson AFB ✈ 17:45, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Looks like their entire history is nothing but adding unsourced trivia to BLPs, and edit-warring over it. I've blocked for 48 hours, and am happy to block for longer if it continues after the block expires. I haven't done anything about the possible socking. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 17:56, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

I've blocked the obvious sock IP for 2 weeks too -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 18:12, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Personal attacks and POV-pushing from anon IP

User:70.162.171.210 is using the current events portal to push right-wing propaganda about Obama causing U.S. "bankruptcy".[31] I deleted their addition[32] since it was redundant to a neutral version of the story that was already listed for today and I was called a "communitst hard liner"[33] and then accused of "pushing a political agrenda".[34] I gave up on reverting them. If someone else could take a look, it would be appreciated. Kaldari (talk) 18:47, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

actually it appears to me that you are involved in an edit war--S-d n r (talk) 18:54, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

That doesn't forgive the WP:NPA by the IP. --Alan the Roving Ambassador (talk) 18:55, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

anon ip does not appear to apply, the ip user has several hundred wiki additions. Also, the comments appear to be generally directed not personally directed at Kaldari--S-d n r (talk) 19:06, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

After I removed his news post that "United States bankruptcy will occur on July 22" with the explanation that it was not reflected in the source, he wrote that "it does indeed reflect the source since all but communitst hard liners heard one and only one thing in his speech 'I do not have a deal'". Clearly his comment is a direct response to mine and directed towards me. And since when is an anon IP not an anon IP because they have an edit history? They are still editing under and anonymous IP address. Kaldari (talk) 19:14, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

The edit histories of User:S-d n r and User:70.162.171.210 look surprisingly similar to me. Kaldari (talk) 19:19, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

I had noticed that myself. In any case, I have blocked .210 for continuing to edit war on that page. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 19:24, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

If those are the same user, will blocking the IP also block the registered user? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:26, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

I'm not sure the IP technically violated 3RR, FWIW. Kaldari (talk) 19:32, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Edit-warring need not technically violate 3RR. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:34, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Well, by that argument I should be blocked as well. My complaints were about the POV-pushing and personal attack, not the short-lived edit war. I would prefer the IP to be unblocked and given a warning about the issues instead. Kaldari (talk) 21:21, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

...and sockpuppet abuse

Here's the smoking gun. The article Henry Feffer was created by User:S-d n r at 14:17 and then edited by User:70.162.171.210 1 minute later. Kaldari (talk) 19:47, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

I note that sdnr's edits also came to a screeching halt after the IP was blocked. However, is this truly sockpuppetry? That is, did he use both ID's to evade something? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:55, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Here are some sockpuppet abuse examples (besides the discussion above):

• http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2011_in_the_United_States&action=history
• http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mark_Haines&action=history

In both cases, the registered user edit warred on behalf of the anon IP. I don't have time to dig further, but this seems blockable to me, especially since Sdnr was actively deceptive above.[35] Kaldari (talk) 20:00, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Assuming good faith - if a new editor makes an edit without realizing a "logged out" status - that also results in the IP being shown as the editor. IMHO, unless there is a clear effort to deceive, or a second named accunt is used, I would chalk it up to "editting while logged out" which happens to almost everyone. Cheers. Collect (talk) 20:23, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

This person is certainly not a new editor. The IP address has a couple thousand edits and the registered user has a few hundred. Aren't their edits in the discussion above a "clear effort to deceive"? If this isn't an example of sockpuppet abuse, it seems like we have a pretty huge loophole. What's to prevent this user from continuing to edit war under both a registered account and an established anonymous account, thus appearing as two different people? Kaldari (talk) 20:36, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

I've placed a level-three warning on User:S-d n r's page. Bearian (talk) 20:52, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Wouldn't {{Uw-agf-sock}} be more appropriate? Kaldari (talk) 21:03, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

sdnr (any clues what that stands for?) has suddenly gone very quiet since the IP was blocked. Maybe a checkuser could discreetly take a look at this? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 13:58, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Your pick Bugs... Status: Data Not Ready, Screw Down Non-Return, Sockpuppet: Do Not Resuscitate - ArtifexMayhem (talk) 14:53, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Embry–Riddle Aeronautical University

It is probably time for an administrator (other than yours truly, who apparently has a personal grudge) to step in. At stake is the insertion of peacockery in the lead. See also a discussion on the talk page, started by User:Pol098, who probably had no idea what they got in to--accusations by SPA editors abound, and I think Pol098 has given up. Your eyes are appreciated, and I'll stick a generic message on the talk page. Drmies (talk) 20:53, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

I've protected the page as there are at least 3 SPAs socking or meatpuppeting on the page. Toddst1 (talk) 21:10, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Thank you. I hope Pol098 is following this, just so they know they're not alone. Drmies (talk) 21:11, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

After reviewing the SPAs edits, it's clear they are only here to pimp that university and as such have been blocked as advertising-only accounts. I've reduced protection to semi. There appear to be a variety of seemingly static IPs from Roadrunner in Orlando that are connected with this exercise. Toddst1 (talk) 21:30, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

... and I declined a pretty rude unblock request on one of them already. (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 12:06, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

That it would be rude was to be expected, given the tone of their other communications. Drmies (talk) 15:51, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Off-site canvassing for CFD

I recently closed this CFD early because of some extensive off-site canvassing, apparently by Shakesomeaction (talk · contribs), the creator of the two categories that were nominated. Screenshots of the off-site posts in question: Screenshot 1, screenshot 2, and screenshot 3 and screenshot 4. A copy of the nomination was posted off-site with the header "Wikipedia doesn't care about Women of Color ... Basically". The off-site canvassing included the comments:

• "Help save the Women of Color categories on Wikipedia"
• "The same nordic asshole has nominated my other entries for deletion"

The canvassing resulted in a number of IP editors casting "keep" votes. I personally feel this off-site behavior is inappropriate for a WP community member, but this issue deserves the community's attention. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 22:10, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

I've always thought there was something goofy about this "voting" process anyway. You get a handful of the hundreds of thousands of editors commenting, and then a decision is made. If every wikipedia editor gave input to everything that was being decided, these external ballot-box-stuffers wouldn't mean anything. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:16, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

One of those posts is a personal post in my blog, the fourth one. I don't care if you ban me for this issue at all, period. Go ahead. I did not tell any of these people what to say, I only told them how to make a post and how to post keep if they felt the same way as me. People also voiced their opinions on their blogs. I felt like the people gave compelling reasons for keeps, but due to my informing them of how this process works, or even that it's going on, it's considered invalid. So ban me. If that's what your answer is when you read the other side then do it. And frankly, I think I am allowed to have my own personal view on my blog and even post copies of conversations there. No website, unless it's federal and is by law of my country, is going to tell me I can't post a copy of a public conversation and comment on it in my blog. That is all I have to say about this topic, period. --Shakesomeaction (talk) 22:27, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Translation: I realize I did something wrong, so now I'm going to try to simultaneously set myself up as a victim and bully my way out of this situation. Newsflash: Apologizing works a whole lot better. Sven Manguard Wha? 23:04, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Uh, no I did nothing wrong. Absolutely. I have not set myself as either one of these. I'm not quite sure how I have bullied anyone in this situation and moreover I felt bullied, because several categories that were not connected were nominated by the same person for deletion in a 24 hour period. So your hypothesis is incorrect. I'm not going to apologize for anything. My comment was saying if these are the rules, I don't agree with them, and it is far better to ban me than put up with this because I feel women's history is an important issue. Bullying would be going to the person's page, harrassing them endlessly, messaging them, finding their personal blog and posting it on Wikipedia, telling them that certain issues do not matter because I am unaffected by them... While I personally insulted this person in my own blog, I never made it part of the conversation on Wikipedia, and I certainly did not harass them, nor did I tell ever any other person to. That would be bullying. My issue was the category, and recognizing women of color. And I am not apologizing for the fact that people don't understand that these are issues that a modern research database should include. So, again, if it is appropriate to ban me in the instance, then so be it. Apologize? I have nothing to apologize for, and I don't think anyone else in this situation does either. It's simply a misunderstanding, although some people need to find out much more about the topic of multiculturalism and ethnic diversity. --Shakesomeaction (talk) 23:49, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Simply I will not fall for those sort of derailing statements. One thing is true of Wikipedia, there will always be someone who cares much more than you do about something, and those people will always get their way. When you figure out which one you are, then call me, otherwise I'm done with this. --Shakesomeaction (talk) 23:55, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Are you saying you want to be banned from Wikipedia? I'm not clear on what you think would be a proper resolution. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 00:04, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

I think at this point it is best to ignore. Otherwise, a blog post will appear with a possibility of a race card being played. Phearson (talk) 03:37, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

• I believe User:Shakesomeaction initially thought they were doing us a favour - we have all these Category:Fooian people and Category:People of Fooian descent, but we don't divide them into males and females. The editor was then pissed off when someone nominated them all for deletion and assumed this was racism/sexism. When someone explained that we had previously had this discussion (probably several times) and decided not to split out a gendered category unless gender was an essential element (ie the category was almost exclusively one gender, and members of the other gender were notable at least partly on the basis of their gender), Shakesomeaction has indicated that they accept this decision (although from the sounds of it they still think it is weird). On that basis, I think the initial reaction should be put down to unfamiliarity with our rules, and no further action be taken. Shakesomeaction is now aware of the previous decision, might like to read up on how it came about, decide whether or not to challenge the consensus using the appropriate community processes, and should also now be mindful that Wikipedia disapproves of external canvassing, so be cautious about how they handle external communication specifically about an on Wikipedia discussion in future (nothing wrong with inviting people to join the community and start editing, everything wrong with a "come and make your feelings known to these racist scum" type comment, in terms of one's future "career" with the project. Elen of the Roads (talk) 09:32, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

I have no idea what you're talking about with the "racist scum" argment. I do not believe anyone in any of these instances were being racists. I do believe people were misuderstanding what the point of having women of ethnicity get their own categories. This was my concern and I never believed anyone in this situation was racist. Also? I am white. Race card? Really mature for someone to say. This wasn't an argument about race for me at all. This was an argument about women's history, and you will see that in any of the past conversations on Wiki about this topic. All those screen shots? They are from different blogs on the internet. Only one of them is from my blog, the last one, and it did not tell anyone to go to the site. I cannot be held responsible for something someone else said, or if someone interpreted this as a racial issue. To me it wasn't. It was a women's history issue --Shakesomeaction (talk) 14:20, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Yeah I just checked those screedshots and nowhere did people say the term "racist scum." Again this was not a topic about race, I never called anyone about racism. This is about women's history. To assume that I am making this about race--to make it an easy way of shouldering off a person being hysteric about race--is offensive to me. Also you will see everyone who I informed about this talked about women's history. This was not a race thing, and I'm sorry that any of you have that misunderstanding. This is a rule that should probably change within Wikipedia. --Shakesomeaction (talk) 14:28, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

• If someone can let me know how I can nominate a rule change I would be grateful for that. --Shakesomeaction (talk) 15:57, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

You are most likely looking for the Village Pump. Hazardous Matt (talk) 15:59, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. --Shakesomeaction (talk) 16:05, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Shakesomeaction, do you acknowledge that canvassing is inappropriate behavior, and agree not to resort to canvassing again once the category is re-nominated? --JaGa^talk 16:20, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

I will say that canvassing is inappropriate, but talking about Wikipedia issues in my own blog is something I'm allowed to do, and Wikipedia cannot tell me what to do concerning that. --Shakesomeaction (talk) 18:11, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

I'm afraid I have to shake my head at the thought that someone could get so worked up about a category. I mean, how hard could it be to ask for clarification and getting directed to the appropriate venue of inquiry instead of getting riled and indignant? --Blackmane (talk) 17:26, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

I probably would have not gotten so worked up if the same person hadn't made it a point to nominate all these categories in such a quick succession. The thing is, some things are important to some people, some things aren't. Obviously it isn't an issue that's important to you, thus you can't surmise why anyone would get upset, but it was important to me. --Shakesomeaction (talk) 18:11, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

You might need to re-examine your priorities, then. Some categories on a web site aren't worth this kind of fuss. — The Hand That Feeds You:^Bite 19:49, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

• Some of these off-site canvassings strike me as being racist. They definently do not show any understanding of the assume good faith guideline.John Pack Lambert (talk) 19:58, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Somedifferentstuff

Not sure whether to submit Somedifferentstuff (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log) to 3RR, since this editor's entire talk page history is of warnings for edit warring and POV editing, combined with suspicions of socking early on (so do I submit to SPI or 3RR-- waste of time for a clearly disruptive editor, would someone familiar with the alleged sock pls have a look?) See the entire talk page history of continuous edit warring: s/he came to my attention via edit warring at autism against very clear consensus here. I will notify him/her next. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:31, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Old ANI here. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:33, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Blocked for 72 hours. I'm not really seeing the sock connection, but feel free to open an WP:SPI if you feel that I'm missing something. NW (Talk) 22:49, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Block request for the user Y2Kcrazyjoker4

Content dispute. Follow dispute resolution. causa sui (talk) 15:38, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
The user Y2Kcrazyjoker4 has been vandalizing the articles related with the English alternative rock band Muse, mainly in the infobox section, at first it reverted any change that weren´t referenced, so i've found references for all the changes, but now, even with references added it keeps undoing my edits, first here [36] alleging that it wasn't referenced, then a reference was aded [37], but it keeps reverting even with reference in it [38] alleging that the source don't is direct enough, but everybody else who reads can get the reference clearly (here is the source: [39]), the user has been invited to discuss it's point of view but don't wants to talk, so their actions falls on vandalism and it must be warned or blocked by an administrator. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Carnotaurus044 (talk • contribs) 22:38, 11 July 2011 (UTC) Looking at the Talk page for Muse, I don't see anything like consensus one way or the other. Y2kcrazyjoker4 is on one side of the fence, Carnotaurus044 is on the other. This needs to go through the normal dispute resolution channels first. There's nothing for an admin to do at this point. --Alan the Roving Ambassador (talk) 22:52, 11 July 2011 (UTC) This is not the proper place to report incidents like this, nor is great form to ask the admins to block someone when a user is reverting disruptive editing. FYI, Carnotaurus044 has been focusing nearly 100% of their editing in the last month on changing the genres of Muse articles. All of these edits were being done without references, and only after I asked for reliable sources to be added did he start providing references in his edits. Some of them, however, are based on flimsy interpretations and don't support the material he was adding to the articles. I'll spare this board any further details, as this is not the proper forum for these disagreements. Y2Kcrazyjoker4 (talk • contributions) 22:54, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

How best to respond to Peter Papadakis?

Not quite sure what to make of this new user. He has only made 3 edits. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Peterpapadakis His first edit involved adding a death date on an article with the name Petros Papadakis. Wouldn't normally be too concerned. But the death date was in the future! Any ideas on how best to communicate with him. I don't think that it qualifies as a death threat. But it isn't a polite thing to do.  Nipsonanomhmata  ^(Talk) 00:23, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

(Non-administrator comment) Continue reverting. If it goes beyond 3 reverts, contact WP:AN/EW. Phearson (talk) 03:42, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

WP:3RR doesn't apply to BLP violations, and an unsourced date of death (future or not) is a BLP violation. It's an especially absurd violation but still. --NellieBly (talk) 04:39, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

I gave them a stern warning[40]earlier. But they have not edited since the OP above reverted their 3rd edit, so we'll see what happens. Heiro 04:42, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

At first I was worried that this could be either a suicide note or a death threat and that we'd need to get the police involved, but on examining the article I see the supposed death date is more than a year in the future. It's hard to imagine anything real being planned that far in advance, but it might be worth keeping an eye on the page in case anything else turns up. — Mr. Stradivarius on tour^♫ 07:59, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

SuperKombat World Grand Prix II

The above article was deleted today. See here. Shortly after, a newly registered user, User:Dolphin s54, created SuperKombat World Grand Prix 2. Dolphin also linked to the newly created article. See, for example, this diff. Notice that he kept the original "II", even though he links to the newly created article with the "2".

I initially thought of requesting a speedy delete of the newly created article, but because it also involves editor behavior, I decided to come here.

My request is to delete the article as a salt and to take whatever action is appropriate with respect to Dolphin.--Bbb23 (talk) 00:40, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

I have tagged it WP:CSD G4, as for the editor, I think at most they should get a warning about recreating content deleted after a deletion discussion. And maybe a check to see if they are a sock. Monty₈₄₅ 00:47, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

I would welcome a sock check. I don't want to get into this too deeply, but there are many kickboxing-related articles and particularly Romanian kickboxing articles that have been nominated for deletion. Many of the deletion discussions have unfortunately focused on Romanian kickboxing enthusiasts accusing editors (like me) of various vaguely defined biases. It has regrettably transformed the discussions into unconstructive fights. Some of the kickboxing proponents are more deft in their accusations. Others just get wild and rant. I'm not sure which is worse. Anyway, all this is to say that there may be a lot more going on behind the scenes here than a naive newbie violating policy.--Bbb23 (talk) 01:01, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Looks like WP is being used as a results service for Romanian kickboxing. Mtking (talk) 01:25, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Article deleted as G4 - would also suggest a sock check. Skier Dude (talk) 01:56, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

To follow up, this is the related SPI. Monty₈₄₅ 02:22, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Dolphin has been blocked as a sock puppet of Cyperuspapyrus. What happens to Cyperuspapyrus?--Bbb23 (talk) 13:48, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

I block him for a week for using a sock to re-create a deleted article :) Elen of the Roads (talk) 15:30, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Unwarranted accusations possibly due to removal of self-promotional / promotional list entries

An anonymous editor (or editors) has inserted what appear may be promotional or self-promotional entries regarding a certain "Ivan Taslimson" (no wikipedia article) into various articles such as . . . Permaculture, List of University of Washington people, List of Indonesian Americans, List of people from Nevada, Organic architecture, List of people from San Jose, California, List of people from Seattle, and Hakka people. Source IPs include: 223.255.229.13 [41], 202.138.246.2 [42], 180.214.233.18 [43], 206.53.152.32 [44], 180.214.233.24 [45], 223.255.229.13 [46], 206.53.152.22 [47], and 206.53.152.28 [48]. A varied set of IPs, so in spite of the very similar edits, they could very well be different individuals.

However, not long after I removed some of these entries from the associated lists due there not being a supporting reference or article, I began seeing some apparently vindictive edit summaries reverting some of my other unrelated edits: [49], [50], and [51]. These were made by IPs 223.255.225.4 and 223.255.226.143, who are likely associated with a single person. I suspect that the user 223.255.229.13 that made the Taslimson entry in the Permaculture article is also the same person. Although not especially bothered by this silliness, I would like to have it stopped (or at least looked into) before it becomes more disruptive. Thanks. — Myasuda (talk) 02:57, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

User:Geneva2011 claims that his Wikimedia Commons photos (covering that of Vivian Balakrishnan) are his own work

Certain photos he has taken are high-resolution and seem to be taken in an official capacity. Geneva2011 has been especially smart to upload them on commons, where the review process (and even speedy deletion) is much slower and where the user faces less scrutiny. User:Strange Passerby has already started a deletion request on one of them here. The Commons deletion process is one thing, but Geneva2011 insists on reinserting some of his images (or posting new ones) when it is likely he either took them while employed by the government of Singapore, or got them from the government of Singapore without an OTRS ticket.

This is of course, overlooking the fact that the user hasn't declared his conflict of interest by being employed in an official capacity. Evidence to this is the perspectives in which File:VivianBalakrishnan03.jpg and File:VivianBalakrishnan.jpg are taken -- I have commented these out on the Vivian Balakrishnan article. However the user insists the images are his. Elle _{vécut heureuse} ^{à jamais} (be free) 04:00, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Wiki Commons is out of scope of the enwp ANI board. Try Commons' own AN. StrPby (talk) 04:40, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

I realise this, but I ask for advice on using these images here, and how aggressive we should be in reverting them or even considering blocks. The ideal outcome is that OTRS tickets get issued and we can use these high-quality images. Elle _{vécut heureuse} ^{à jamais} (be free) 04:53, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

COI should only be an issue if the edits cause problems with the article i.e. NPOV, self promotion, etc. Googled for the image of this event, and don't see any image that matches it. However, I did find this [[52]] which is similar. Press photographer using unpublished photos? In any case, it would be great if Geneva2011 could just give us some indication on how he owns these photos. Zhanzhao (talk) 12:48, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

On the contrary, people being paid to edit Wikipedia cannot at all be neutral, since they have been given instructions on how to edit, and undoubtedly that means in the very least, not writing any genuine (beyond token) criticism of their employer. You only need judge this user's edits for yourself. This editor insisted on taking down user-taken free photographs and replacing them with "official" photos, perhaps intentionally to undermine the project. Elle _{vécut heureuse} ^{à jamais} (be free) 17:53, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

• You could just as easily argue that people who edit Wikipedia in their free time do so because they have an axe to grind. In some cases this is true, and in some cases it is not.
• Unless there is evidence of wrong-doing, you should assume good faith.
• It is possible that this person is a government employee; or maybe he/she is a press photographer; or maybe he/she is a freelance. You are speculating. We do not know. And if he/she is one of these, why should he/she not upload spare photos instead of deleting them? Why should he/she be compelled to out him/herself?--Toddy1 (talk) 18:09, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Indirect personal attack

So at this discussion, Dekkappai (talk · contribs) tossed off this rant:

“ If I might be permitted a minor digression by way of illustration of the problem articles on non-notable subjects like this pose Wikipedia: Not long ago I had to start articles on several Rimsky-Korsakov operas. Now, I don't need to tell you, Rimsky-Korsakov's operas are the crowning achievement of the oeuvre of this Russian master, yet we had no articles on them until I started these pathetic stubs. What did we have instead? Articles on these fucking country clowns! It makes me sick to my stomach to even think about it. No, gentlemen. We should all be working towards improving Wikipedia's reputation, not dragging it down into the mud and the gutter with some whiskey-soaked shit-kickers singing about beating their wives and they're so lonesome since their dogs ran away, and oh, how great the U.S. of A is, and all that drivel. I realise this is the project for the deletion of images, but someone really should bring this problem to the attention of the appropriate project for the deletion of articles. For the good of Wikipedia, please delete this aural excrement. They're all potential BLP violations anyway. ”

I think that this is a stealth attack at editors such as I who are into country music, making baseless stereotypes like "dogs ran away" and referring to the genre's singers as "fucking country clowns" and "aural excrement" — the whole thing reeks of WP:IDONTLIKEIT as well, since he's just bitching about how he hates country and derailing an overall decent thread. Looking at the posts on his talk page, he also got yelled at two other times for WP:POINT attacks — including another filibuster at this AFD where he tells other editors ("We welcome you with open arms if you come here looking for articles on some things, but not this. Why? Because we like some things, but not others. If you boo-hoo that Wikipedia is "not censored", we are forced by policy to agree. But we do have Notability and other guidelines which allow us to remove things we don't like. You got a problem with that? FLIP OFF!") He has also ranted at Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Paula_Rosenthal, Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Pinky_(pornographic_actress) and elsewhere — literally nothing but ranting at AFD and fora since April at least. He's clearly got an axe to grind, and someone should put an end to his detrimental editing and ranting. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • ^{(Otters want attention)} 05:12, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

• Comment I was drawn to this entry by the amusing rant quoted above. Dekkapai obviously has behavioural problems but I didn't find any evidence that his/her incivility is directed at anyone in particular in the discussions linked above. It seems that s/he has problems with Wikipedia in general and uses these discussions to vent them out. Maybe an admin might consider topic banning Dekkapai from XFDs since s/he has already been warned about this pattern of incivility some 20 days ago and again some 10 days later? Timbouctou (talk) 05:28, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
  • So long as the rants aren't having a negative effect on the discussions (by derailing them, or dissuading people from contributing) then they're mostly harmless. This one was quite rightly redacted on the talk page in question because, well, it's no less offensive to use negative stereotypes of country music artists in our discussions than it is to use any other negative stereotype. If that keeps happening we have a problem. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) - talk 08:55, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
    • Still, seems to be a lot of drama surrounding someone who supposedly is semi-retired. However, my answer to all such rants is the same. The answer to this problem is to let the fanboys have their "cruft" (as long as it's "verifiable" cruft) and go write more "useful stuff". --Ron Ritzman (talk) 12:54, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
      • Hmm, it strikes me as slightly ironic for an apparent opera lover to be criticizing the words of country songs for their banality - I wonder if he's ever listened to the actual words of any operas? (I remember one I once saw had a segment of 10 minutes or so of lots of people singing about what a fine hat someone was wearing) -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 13:16, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

• • • • If there were a strict separation between "cruft" and "useful stuff" then so be it, but it's often not that clear. It would be nice if we treated The Lord of the Rings as a seminal fictional work and concentrated on its tremendous impact on the fantasy genre, rather than on whether or not there really were Elves at the Battle of Helm's Deep, for instance. Cruftism colours one's view of what we should be about, and can taint articles on pretty much any subject if left unchecked. As for {{semi-retired}}, nothing screams "came for the content, stayed for the dramaz" more loudly in my experience. But still, unless this is actively interfering with XfD (and it would need to be cranked up with a few notches to do so) then there's nothing to do here. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) - talk 13:33, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
        • Well, we could always move {{retired}} to {{storm-off-in-a-huff}} and {{semi-retired}} to {{storm-off-in-a-huff-but-stand-at-the-sidewalk-and-scream}}. --Ron Ritzman (talk) 14:15, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
• Dekkappai's a disgruntled editor who's been riding the same hobbyhorse for at least four years; he doesn't accept WP:N, WP:RS, and WP:NFCC, and reacted rather strongly when discussions involving his favorite subjects, pornography and erotica, especially involving the Japanese industry, turned against him. He used to cry censorship at the drop of a hat[53], but that wore out its welcome, and he became quite incensed over an extended dispute (involving me) over whether advertising copy from a porn vendor's website was a reliable source for a BLP. After a few blocks for incivility, and attempts to provoke more[54], he's "semi-retired" to a career of facetiously disrupting discussions, especially if I'm involved, as here. I'm sure he'll manage to cross the line into blockability again, but he's mostly trolling to see who he can get to take the bait on any given day. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 20:07, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Page move ban for Dolovis

• WP:AN#Help request: Diacritics in surnames
• Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive709#An all encompassing complaint regarding the disruptive editing behavior of User:Dolovis

It seems that Dolovis (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) has gone back to his old ways. Therefore I propose a complete ban on Dolovis moving articles. He may request moves of articles via WP:RM, and should consensus be gained an uninvolved editor may make the move. Mjroots (talk) 06:02, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

• Please note that Dolovis is in fact making page moves in accordance with policy (see WP:COMMONNAME). There is currently a RfC, Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English)/Diacritics RfC, which is discussing this matter and, at only 50% support, it does not look like it will get a consensus. Although it's obviously sub-optimal that Dolovis is editing the redirects so that only admins can move over the titles, those moves are clearly controversial and should therefore go through WP:RM anyway. Again, Dolovis is acting in accordance with the policy as it is currently written. Also, the proposal makes it sound as if Dolovis is regularly moving article en masse, when he/she has in fact only made four moves in the last two weeks. Jenks24 (talk) 08:59, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

  Dolovis seems to have an extreme view on the diacritic issue, and enforces his view by deliberately creating redirects from names with diacritics in two edits: [55][56][57]. This prevents anyone from moving the page under that title. He's also systematically creating articles under names without diacritics, even in cases where the sources do use them (eg. Juha-Pekka Pietila, Eero Vare). It's certainly not clear to me how that is in accordance with WP:COMMONNAME. Jafeluv (talk) 09:32, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

  WP:COMMONNAME is not very explicit (to say the least) about discritics. The only mention is "canon" vs. "cañon" (for "canyon"). I can't see what bearing that has to personal names. In fact, the current guideline is to neither encourage nor discourage diacritics in personal names.

  Lacking clear direction in WP:COMMONNAME, WP:HOCKEY is the place to look for guidance (when it comes to hockey players).

  Dolovis' previous behavior indicates that he is more or less begging for a page move ban. HandsomeFella (talk) 11:30, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

I don't think the RFC and WP:COMMONNAME are really relevant here. The RFC is about proper nouns generally and this is a case of proper names of living individuals, where there is an established practice. While you may be right that the letter of said policy fails to reflect this, WP:BURO should apply. It doesn't exactly sound like proper use of a policy page to stretch common names to cover common misspellings (for example, the Journal of Paleontology style guide lists "not putting in diacritical marks in foreign words or names" among common errors of grammar in English). Anyway, this is a behavioural issue and Dolovis's policy interpretation is no justification for his highly disruptive editing pattern. The user has been given more than a fair number of chances to change his behaviour, but once the AN/I threads get archived, the gaming of the system continues. Prolog (talk) 11:23, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Regardless of whether the non-accented names are permissable or not, deliberately creating edit histories at the accented titles is an act of bad faith designed to give Dolovis a "competitive edge" in that his edits can't easily be undone by non-administrators. If that happens again it appears that a number of administrators are willing to indefinitely block him. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) - talk 11:51, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

In the 3 cases mentioned above, I have just deleted the history, and restored the second versions. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 12:41, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Could you also do the same thing for Juha-Pekka Pietilä? HeyMid (contribs) 15:40, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Done. 28bytes (talk) 16:44, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

• Support. In my experience, Dolovis consistently displays a battleground mentality when challenged, and as noted, is willing to game the system if he believes it will give him an advantage in a dispute. I stated last time that this editor will continue to make repeated appearances at ANI, and it is clear that his page move campaign is being considered disruptive by a consistently increasing number of editors. It behooves us to put an end to this behaviour. Resolute 15:38, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
• Support. Dolovis has repeatedly been told to stop moving titles of player pages with diacritics to ones without diacritics (or using titles without diacritics when creating the pages). Dolovis' defense is that he is acting in accordance with WP:AT (specifically WP:COMMONNAME), however he does not mention the WP:HOCKEY#Wikiproject notice compromise, which states that "All player pages should have diacritics applied (where required)". Dolovis has also repeatedly made "mistakes" and gamed the system by creating two revisions in the redirects to prevent non-admins from being able to move the articles. The diacritics issues with this user dates back to at least May this year. These issues with Dolovis have been brought up at AN and ANI a lot of times during the past few weeks. Enough is enough. HeyMid (contribs) 15:57, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

  If I've understood correctly, this proposal does not prevent Dolovis from creating player articles with non-diacritics titles. Should we also prevent Dolovis from creating player articles with non-diacritics titles? Or is the purpose in that case that, if another user moves an article with a non-diacritics title to a diacritics one, Dolovis isn't allowed to move that article (back) without seeking consensus? HeyMid (contribs) 17:49, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

• Support: Dolvis has long history of conflict around page moves relating to diacritical marks. The comment above regarding a battleground mentality is highly appropriate. Toddst1 (talk) 16:28, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
• Support Resolute is right on the money with his comments. His continued battleground mentality makes it hard for editors to work in a collaborative environment. He continues to try and game the system by creating redirects in two separate edits to prevent other editors from moving articles away from his preferred spelling. As Resolute said, he is being brought here by increasing numbers of different editors. There is a point where we have to say enough is enough he is causing too much disruption. -DJSasso (talk) 17:09, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
• Support The fact that Dolovis' editing habits have been brought to ANI multiple times by multiple editors in itself is validity that he should receive such a ban. It is clear that this user has no intention of stopping his disruptive actions, and if this isn't dealt with now, someone else will ultimately bring the issue back to ANI is another few weeks. His recent behaviour of gaming the system is blatant disruptive editing, and this user is by far the most unresponsive editor to discussion I have ever encountered on Wikipedia. He has a standardized response to every question asked of him, suggesting he is following WP:AT and WP:COMMONNAME, despite the fact that neither of these pages has substantively come to a decision on diacritics. Even when shown he is wrong, or misinformed, he either ignores the comment, shuts down a conversation, or again refers to AT or COMMONNAME. It is beyond my explanation how this user has been able to continue making such disruptive edits to Wikipedia for so long. He will undoubtedly come here as assert that the same "pro-diacritic" editors are ganging up on him, completely ignoring the fact that this is about disruptive editing, not diacritics. A page move ban was warranted months ago. – Nurmsook! ^talk... 17:46, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
• Support. This user learned absolutely nothing from his previous appearance here. In fact, he could be deserving a total block, as he seems to constantly be in search of other ways to rid wikipedia of diacritics, e.g. entering the player name without diacritics in the third parameter to the hockeydb template, rationalising it with the fact that the Internet Hockey Database does not have diacritics. That is not the purpose of the third parameter – it is (mainly) used to lose the disambiguator. Also, a page move ban alone would not prevent him from gaming the system by editing redirects. HandsomeFella (talk) 18:07, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
  • That is something which can be kept an eye on. Dolovis is already on a lvl 4 warning for disruptive editing. Now, where's the key to my banhammer case... Mjroots (talk) 19:27, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
• Support per Resolute. Plus all the drama, gaming the system, &c. (And also attempting to sneak in a policy change against consensus) bobrayner (talk) 18:13, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
• Support - After reading this page and this oter... Per Prolog: gaming the system. --Dэя-Бøяg 19:42, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Legal threat from an IP http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:178.84.115.106

Resolved: One block extended, one address warned. m.o.p 10:28, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

See here Bentogoa (talk) 08:52, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

The IP is currently blocked for 3RR Bentogoa (talk) 08:53, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

This IP has also been disruptive/edit-warred on Bulgarians, Turks of Western Thrace and various user talk pages eg here and here. I posted a response to the IP's edits on Bulgarians on the article Talk page. After the IP (whose location is Amsterdam) was blocked, another IP located in Amsterdam posted this personal attack in reply. Looks almost certain to be the same person. DeCausa (talk) 09:23, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Extended block another 24 hours and left a message on the talk page. Second IP received an only warning here. Marking this as completed for now. m.o.p 10:28, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Nasty BLP violation needs to be completely hidden

This bit of trash [58] was quickly reverted, but needs to be completely hidden. --Simon Speed (talk) 09:01, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Done. Jafeluv (talk) 09:12, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Giorgoos (talk · contribs)

Resolved

 – User blocked indefinitely by Floquenbeam. Alan the Roving Ambassador (talk) 17:24, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

long time warring; legal threat; notified. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 ^{> haneʼ} 17:10, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

another legal threat Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 ^{> haneʼ} 17:13, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

I gave a {{uw-nlt}}, but an admin should look at this. My gut instinct says it's a bluff, but WP:NLT is a bright line. --Alan the Roving Ambassador (talk) 17:18, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

first warning, second warning. He knows. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 ^{> haneʼ} 17:21, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

I took my (redundant) warning off. He's had more than enough opportunity to learn to play by the rules. --Alan the Roving Ambassador (talk) 17:22, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

• Sigh, everybody here types faster than me; perhaps I should use more templates. Anyway, came here to say that I blocked him indef for disruption, including but not only the legal multiple threats, but I see that's old news. --Floquenbeam (talk) 17:28, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

It's a slow news day. Alan the Roving Ambassador (talk) 17:30, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Slow Edit War at Brookdale Community College

In addition to to other BLP violations, ie this edit, this page has been having a slow edit war since May 24 from about 7 single purpose accounts. Unsourced "allegations of criminal fraud" were made, removed and repeatedly re-added. It also appears that editors at the college have tried to whitewash the article.

Finally after removing them once myself, they have finally been sourced. However they are in the lead and are probably giving undue weight to the matter. A few eyes on the article may be helpful, regards - 220.101 talk^\Contribs 19:16, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

The front page...

Has nobody yet noticed the paring of this Pic of the Day with the Leroy Petry DYK? I already left a comment on the FPOTD talk page but I think this requires more urgent attention. My sincere hope is this wasn't intentional editorializing. Either way, perhaps we should slide this FPOTD to tomorrow? TomPointTwo (talk) 18:35, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Ummm...ummm...ummm... Facepalm Uncommonly bad timing to pair those two items up. I can't help but assume good faith that it was entirely coincidental. --Alan the Roving Ambassador (talk) 18:42, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Even Freud reportedly once said "sometimes a banana is just a banana". Seeing grand designs or ulterior motive within something that is entirely coincidental is not much of a concern for AN/I, IMO. Tarc (talk) 18:44, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Maybe so but it's in the best interest of Wikipedia's credibility to swap out the FPOTD. TomPointTwo (talk) 18:49, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

In what way does it harm wikipedia's credibility to showcase items on the front page which portray different aspects of war? (Different wars, for what it's worth). Is there any actual reason to remove one item or the other? bobrayner (talk) 18:54, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

I've already made clear the reason. Do you not concur that it creates an impression of editorial commentary? TomPointTwo (talk) 18:59, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

It creates nothing of the sort except in the minds of those who see conspiracy around every corner. No offense, but seriously, find something else to do. Tarc (talk) 19:02, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Beautiful. Leave it as-is. The truth may hurt, but it's still true. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 18:54, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

So you recognize the editorial picture it creates and support its inclusion because you agree with it? TomPointTwo (talk) 18:58, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Ya think? Keep in mind that veterans have always had trouble finding jobs - after WWI, WWII, Vietnam and also the Gulf conflicts. This is nothing new. Note that Petry has gotten around this problem by staying in the service. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:02, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

I'm afraid you need to reorient yourself with WP:NPOV. The DYK and FPOTD on the front page do not exist to advance a POV regard of how valid you believe it to be. TomPointTwo (talk) 19:07, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Wow..... Kudos to TomPointTwo on picking up on that; however, I think it's a point that's going to be lost on most people..... I don't see any issue. Certainly doesn't seem like intentional editorializing (though you could probably investigate this by going through the DYK and FPOTD discussions and seeing if there were common editors pushing for the two). NickCT (talk) 19:01, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

That would be worth a look, and unless it can be demonstrated that it was done deliberately, taking it out amounts to "censorship", which wikipedia supposedly doesn't do. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:05, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

It's only censorship if there is a message to be censored. TomPointTwo (talk) 19:08, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Prove that it's a message and not a coincidence. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:54, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Oh, I will. I would like to see today's FPOTD swapped with tomorrow though. This is a PR nightmare in the making for Wikipedia. Commonsense dictates we coordinate these things more closly to avoid painting pictures like this. TomPointTwo (talk) 19:07, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia already has little public credibility, and panicking and censoring it would only lower that credibility. If you're worried about what Wide Receiver will say, don't - they'll criticize no matter what is done, or not done. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:10, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Unless you can find a reason to suggest it was deliberate, I'd say leave it there. The picture is intended to be uncomfortable, and we can't go around looking for excuses not to show it because it might clash with something else. AndyTheGrump (talk) 19:06, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Sometimes a banana is just a banana ... but try to convince someone that that's all it is once they imagine (or are told) it is something else.

Anyway, better to leave it now and learn from the lesson. Changing it would only draw attention to the banana and encourage active imaginations. --RA (talk) 19:07, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Precisely. Someone needs to pay more attention to the main page content before it goes public. This Jay Leno-like juxtaposition might make wikipedia look stupid. But pulling back from this, for fear that someone might complain, would make wikipedia look even stupider. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:13, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

That's what Main Page/Tomorrow is for. More eyes are always welcome. Modest Genius ^talk 19:24, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

That page wouldn't have picked up this issue, since the DYK in question has only rotated onto the page midway through the UTC day. Bencherlite^Talk 19:59, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Let's just say that "irony" is not entirely a lost art, and WP:LETITGO. --Alan the Roving Ambassador (talk) 19:12, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

I for one find it ironic and not at all offensive. I'm sure it was entirely unintentional, which just makes it funnier. There's no need to remove either of the stories - let the ironic juxtaposition stand. Let readers read whatever they like into it. Modest Genius ^talk 19:21, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

• Speaking for DYK, the item was selected for today based on the (obvious) date relationship. That, and the presence of a photo of sufficient quality made it suitable to be the lead item. POTD was not a consideration in the selection, and I suspect that most of the editors involved in this DYK selection were unaware of the POTD. cmadler (talk) 19:40, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
• This is pure coincidence. I don't see it as ironic, just an interesting coincidence where two juxtaposed views of wars, spanning many years, hit the front page. It is one of the things that makes Wikipedia awesome, and we should not try to trample on that.--Errant ^(chat!) 19:44, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Which editor chose the POTD for today? TomPointTwo (talk) 19:55, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Howcheng (talk · contribs) chooses, each and every day (barring accidents). Bencherlite^Talk 19:59, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, I left him a message. Maybe he can confirm that this was just a bizarre coincidence. TomPointTwo (talk) 20:07, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

• Uhh... unless Sgt. Petry is on record saying he joined up to make the world safe for Goldman Sachs, there's not even an editorial juxtaposition. The cartoon does not have a pacifist or anti-military POV, but rather criticizes, at most, a certain (i.e. upper) class of civilians. So where's the "PR nightmare?" Also, is this venue the appropriate place for this? ☯.ZenSwashbuckler.☠ 20:04, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Roscelese repeated violations of WP:CIVL

After being the recipient of some rather uncivil comments by Roscelese the other day,[59], I took the issue to Fastil [60] who warned Roscelese [61] about their behavior. Unfortunately, Roscelese didn’t take the message to heart, because they just recently accused me of something rather repugnant and sickening [62] and undid my attempt at removing the personal attack per WP:NPA [63].

I had originally thought to take this to another board, but after my brief interaction with Roscelese and this users long history of administrative sanctioning for other similar attacks on editors and edit warring in general [64], I would ask that the community take this editors behavior more seriously. Thank you. ZHurlihee (talk) 20:07, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

The user having admitted that he believes women lie about rape all the time, I don't really see how it's a violation of WP:CIVIL to observe that he's removing sourced information that contradicts his view. The user also does not appear to understand that a report is not an administrative sanction, or even that a search result (for a comment, or for a report I filed) is not a report; likewise he fails to mention, in linking to my comment on his talk page, that I said I wouldn't make such a comment again, and indeed I have not. Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 20:19, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

ZHurlihee has also attempted to canvass a user with a record of harassing me to join this thread. Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 20:22, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

I have looked at Roscelese's contribs and I only see one outburst of incivility. ZHurlihee, don't exaggerate. Island Monkey ^{talk the talk} 20:26, 12 July 2011 (UTC)