Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents

Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents
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Harassment

In Bodu Bala Sena page I added Fascism tag due to this organization using nationalism and religious fervor in attacking minorities. The user 115.67.197.210 [1] accused me of Hate speech. I wanted the admins to clarify this incident.

• [2]
• [3]

Delljvc (talk) 20:41, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

• You need to first take this to the article talk page. I have to admit, I'm stymied as to how an article on Buddhism meets the criteria to have the Fascism template on it, but I'm not editing there. He reverted it out, now it is upon you to leave it out and build a consensus to include it. Adding it back in will likely be seen as edit warring, and open yourself up for sanctions. If you can't build a consensus that Buddhism is Fascism (??), then you leave it out, or take it to WP:DRN if you have a split consensus. This isn't a matter for ANI at this point. As for "hate speech", the IP gave a reasoned argument on your talk page, he didn't go into some hateful rant, so I don't find anything uncivil about it. There is no admin action warranted right now. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 20:54, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

Let me quote my earlier post "In Bodu Bala Sena page I added Fascism tag" and not in the Buddhism template. I don't know how to edit templates and if I did it was a mistake. My edit was for Bodu Bala Sena page only. Delljvc (talk) 12:13, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

• I forgot to add, you didn't notify the user that you brought them here. The notice at the top of this page gives you the template and tells us that it is mandatory. I'm assuming it was a simple oversight, and as such, I've notified them myself. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 23:19, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

Thank you. This week has seen an increase in Buddhist/Muslim tensions. In sections of Myanmar, for example, there have been riots and deaths. Later in the week, Islamic groups plan a rally in Sri Lanka --the home of the organization in this article. This article has seen a huge amount of vandalism this week from IPs in Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Singapore, and Qatar, to mention only a few.

The wikipedia needs to be especially careful of what is says is true. Statements need to have reliable sources. The sources should be checked for neutral point of view, and not merely repeat what someone's enemies are saying about them.115.67.39.165 (talk) 03:36, 25 March 2013 (UTC) User talk:115.67.197.210

Disruption and personal attacks by Colleabois on Talk:Germans

• Colleabois (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• 195.169.209.53 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

The first account is a recently registered account of the IP editor. He has linked the IP's user page and user talk page to the registered account. Since registering the account he has started editing Germans by tag bombing it and thratening to remove content unless it was sourced. In tag bombing he left hidden messages in the text which other editors were expected to be able to decipher. He inserted the tags four times and was reverted by three editors. I then reported him for edit warring at WP:AN3 and he received a warning for disruptive editing from user:ItsZippy. He has threatened to blank content that he does not agree with. That is an unnuanced and unconstructive way of editing. This is an article that I watch but have not edited. After the WP:EW report, I took one fairly neutral phrase summarising the history of Germany as an example and asked him to explain what his objections were. Instead of using a history book ot books he referred to an atlas, using WP:OR and WP:SYNTH. Eventually I located three sources and produced a short two sentence rewrite, which is now in the article.

Originally part of the Holy Roman Empire, around 300 independent German states emerged during its decline after the Peace of Westphalia in 1648 ending the Thirty Years War. These states would eventually form into modern Germany in the nineteenth century.

References
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Ozment, Steven (2005), A Mighty Fortress: A New History of the German People, Harper Collins, pp. 120–121, 161, 212, ISBN 0060934832 Segarra, Eda (1977), A Social History of Germany, 1648-1914, Taylor & Francis, p. 5, 15, 183, ISBN 0416776205 Whaley, Joachim (2011), Germany and the Holy Roman Empire: Volume II: The Peace of Westphalia to the Dissolution of the Reich, 1648-1806, Oxford History of Early Modern Europe, Oxford University Press, ISBN 0199693072

Colleabois has responded that there is "not a grain of truth" in what I wrote and that he will remove it. He has further suggested that I have not looked at the sources. After his warning about edit warring, he is back disputing content that is already in the article in another place in greater detail; it can also be found in numerous other articles on wikipedia. The content is in the sources on the pages mentioned. Even when subsequently pointed to google books to verify the sources, he has said that he cannot and that I must provide the full passages on wikipedia. But obviously I cannot, because it would be a copyvio; and I will not, because his request is time-wasting, disruptive and essentially trolling.

My question is "Why is an editor disputing well-known content and making such absurd suggestions of bad faith?" I have a long record as a content creator in arious subjects and know exactly how to locate and use sources. Why suggest otherwise when the page numbers are given? That is a misuse of wikipedia and a waste of other people's time. His tagging was bad enough (it earned him a warning), but now his discussion of sneutral and well-known facts is being turned into a kind of playground tantrum. I am used to things like that on Europe from editors with a nationalist point of view. I suspect that this editor, with an IP in Nijmegen, might not be approaching this article with a neutral point of view. It is classic tendentious editing.

Even after being given links to the sources, with the actual pages, Coilleabois refuses to look up the sources and is stamping his little foot refusing to accept these commonplace facts about German history available in multiple sources as well as on wikipedia. These facts are uncontroversial and already in the article later on . His performance on the talk page is therefore just childish trolling.

Similarly elsewhere on wikipedia he has claimed that Moules-frites is a national Dutch dish. Like the statements on German history, it is well known (and easily sourced!) that it is a Belgian national dish, originating in Brussels. He has since claimed to be Belgian on Talk:European cuisine and has supported his insertion of "Dutch" before "Belgian" by referring to the Belgian constitution. But his edits are unsourced and unsourceable. Just mindless trolling. He is misleading the reader.

He has also been involved in disputes with other users on Pennsylvania Dutch and elsewhere.

There seems to be far too much tendentious editing, with no attempt to use sources and general trollishness on talk pages. Mathsci (talk) 11:41, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

1. I have never threatened to blank the article. This is the third time that Mathsci claims this in what can be considered as nothing else than an attempt to incite against me. What I've said is the following: "Below are the issues found with the current article. One week is given to provide sources for the claims, if they have not been provided after that time I will remove them from the article to which they should only then be placed back until proper sources and references for them have been provided." The issues consist of 10 single phrases.

2. This user stalks my edits (as can be seen here in a clear example of WP:POINT in which he attempts to harass me and has removed sourced statements.

3. This uses repeatedly makes blatant lies about my edits in order to manipulate opinion. For example: in the article on European cuisine I made this edit, in which I state that Moules Frites is ALSO a Dutch dish. After a WP:POINT revert by Mathsci, he then goes on talk to say what he has since repeated here too: It is not a Dutch dish. Dutch cuisine by comparison is less developed (...) It's pointless attempting to claim this dish as a classic dish originating in the Netherlands. In other words, he makes it seem as if I claimed it originated in the Netherlands while also attempting to insult me (by assuming I'm Dutch, I'm Belgian) by insulting Dutch cuisine. When I proceeded to add sourced material to back my claim up; he simple attempted to remove it.

4. This user, continually acts hostile and attempts to incite others against me (principally administrators like yourselves) by reporting me for his imagined conspiracy. He claimed I broke the 3RR, which I did not and in this particular case he claims I have made personal attacks. Which he fails to produce evidence for. All this noise he produces makes my talk page look like that of a vandal, which I am not. It is an unhealty situation when other wikipedians advise you to re-register to have a different name so that Mathsci will stop his harassment.

5. Everyone can visit the talk page of Germans and see for themselves that I am only interested in sourced content. I have never been insulting to anyone. Quite the opposite of Mathsci as one can see here.

In short, it is Mathsci himself who is being disruptive and could do very well with a warning. Greetings, Colleabois (talk) 15:07, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

Uninvolved (up until now) observer on the sidelines. This is not a simple content dispute and, in my brief encounter with Colleabois, I am inclined to side with Mathsci, as this user displays very tendentious, pointy editing, marching right up to the 3RR line on both of the articles where the deuh-rama is happening,[4] [5] (yes I know, my last revert at European cuisine puts me at 3 changes to the article for the day, collateral damage).

At Germans, three editors had to undo the massive pointy tagging of, apparently, well-established, referenced, stable information. Maybe the editor is well-intentioned but has a very brash, "I'm right so listen to me", martial attitude to their editing and also flings accusations around (per point 4 above), when, in fact, they leave tp messages that say "Do not remove sources from the article, that is vandalism", which, as I point out further down on the page, is a) incorrect, b) the sources are incorrectly presented, formatted, the author's name is wrong, there is no page number for the first ref etc. and c) wrongly accusing others of vandalism to back up one's own interpretation of correct editing can be considered a personal attack. That's all from me. CaptainScreebo ^Parley! 16:48, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

If you bother to look on the talk page of Germans, you'll find that two editors fully agreed with my content concerns. That the information questioned was not at all referenced (and much of it still isn't - having no references at all) and that only now (and certainly not thanks to Mathsci) progress is being made with the adding of sourced material. Colleabois (talk) 12:46, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Colleabois is now arguing on Talk:European cuisine that Wiener Schnitzel is not a national dish of Austria.Mathsci (talk) 22:11, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

Question to administrators: What are generally the consequences if a user repeatedly and willfully misquotes or misstates another users position? My exact words: The problem is, that iconic dishes associated with a certain nation might not be restricted to the nation with which they are most closely associated. Even something like a Wiener Schnitzel, which even has the nations capital in its name (!) will still be identical to a Cotoletta alla milanese and therefore also common throughout northern Italy. I actually stress the fact that it is an iconic Austrian dish. This is not the first time that Mathsci has done this and I suspect it will not be the last time unless something is or can be done. Colleabois (talk) 12:42, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

All this about a picture caption for Wiener Schnitzel, having nothing to do with me? I'm sure dozens of administrators are waiting with baited breath for your informed commentaries on the captions for Kaiserschmarren, Schwarzwälder Kirschtorte, Quetschentaart and Rösti. Why not post them on a blog? Somebody out there might be interested. Mathsci (talk) 13:10, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

A general warning explaining concerning the galleries that though popularly associated with a particular country, some foods are also a tradition of other countries/regions or within the country itself might be considered regional cuisine. You again attempt to distort statements made. Colleabois (talk) 13:44, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Please stop shouting on this noticeboard. Thanks in advance, Mathsci (talk) 16:55, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

The day you stop misquoting me is the day I stop bolding my defence of it. Thanks in advance, Colleabois (talk) 17:04, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Please see Captain Screebo'sresponse below. Yatter, yatter, yatter ......... Mathsci (talk) 17:30, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

You shouldn't get so worked up Mathsci, you might give yourself an heart attack. Colleabois (talk) 19:21, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Oh dear Lord! How about horsemeatballs all round? Surely this is undeniably pan-European cuisine! CaptainScreebo ^Parley! 15:20, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Your above statement stands proof of your level of commitment to discussion, polite discourse, "un-involvement" and producing sentences like Great, so now you're taking the line of someone you were reverting on the Germans article? only add to the image of a person who's prejudiced at best. Colleabois (talk) 15:44, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Yatter, yatter, yatter, you are becoming un pot de colle, go pick a fight elsewhere, I am not interested, neither by your pretentious rhetoric nor your singular obsessional nitpicking, it was an attempt at humour, to lighten the mood concerning a subject that has gotten way out of hand due to your insistence that all typical national European dishes should be labelled "WARNING! You may also be served this food in Austria/Germany/Spain/Hungary" etc. You might notice that the admins are just letting this rather belligerent content dispute play out, which I am minded to do also. CaptainScreebo ^Parley! 16:34, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

In the future I suggest you try and make yourself the butt of the joke instead of others. Especially if they're here for serious matters such as accusations of personal attacks. If you want to be a comedian go to open mic night at your local comedy club.Colleabois (talk) 17:08, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

What! Are you telling me that I am a butt, excuse me but this charming expression also means arsehole where I come from, now it is you, dear sir, that are engaging in personal attacks and (sorry just trying out material for the open-mic night at the ANI comedy club, oh it's that-a-way, on my way). CaptainScreebo ^Parley! 17:44, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Perhaps new additions to your life; such as an interesting hobby, project or friends will help you in spending your free time in France. This clearly isn't working out for you. Colleabois (talk) 19:19, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Oh how thoughtful! May I suggest, reciprocally, that a sense of humour, some Preparation H and a Pet Rock might assuage your pained existence. CaptainScreebo ^Parley! 16:06, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Could an uninvolved administrator weigh in on this or close this. This discussion has turned into a good example of WP:SARC --Kyohyi (talk) 18:28, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

No thank you. You have made very few edits and they are almost exclusively to Men's rights movement, a problematic article under probation (it has been on my watchlist for a while). You have intervened to encourage Colleabois.[6] Captain Screebo, Illraute, Dusty relic, myself and others have some experience editing, so please let this play out. Colleabois has not proposed any relevant content yet, but has wasted large amounts of other editors' time with frivolous and constantly shifting complaints. Your analysis does not seem accurate. Mathsci (talk) 18:49, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Given your recent contributions; you should not accuse others of WP:SPA as the past few days you've done nothing but to try and insult or harass me; fixating yourself on two articles and this page. Talking about this page, when will you be providing diffs of those personal attacks I've made? Colleabois (talk) 19:19, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Mathsci please comment on my statements not on who I am. Just because I haven't a large number of edits doesn't mean I can't spot bad behavior. My comment on Colleabois talk page said that he should bring any changes he wants in the article to the talk page first so that he doesn't get accused of being Pointy. And to be honest you could have at least did a diff to Colleabois talk page, and not a mathematical theorem. All in all I would still appreciate it if an uninvolved administrator would weigh in on this dispute. The Sarcasm and Snark being displayed is unbecoming of a project that is supposed to be a collaboration. --Kyohyi (talk) 19:52, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

• My recent content edits are here.[7] I've also recently participated at WP:AE in a complex request. As an aside, I've edited Men's rights movement 8 times and its talk page 31 times. I have also reverted edits from The Bulldog of multiple socks of Echigo mole. All somewhat unrelated to the problems of Colleabois's tendentious editing on Talk:Germans or his insistence on European cuisine that it might be misleading to describe Wiener Schnitzel as an Austrian dish. Nothing constructive or collegial there, just as Captain Screebo has said. Mathsci (talk) 03:09, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Since I have been mentioned by name I will weigh in now. I have been watching this play out across our encyclopedia and have this to offer:

• 1. Colleabois did engage in disruptive editing on the Pennsylvania Dutch page. The behavior went on for several days during which he made repeated reversions that never exceeded the three revert rule but often skimmed it. (This in itself is a violation of WP:3RR in my opinion.) His edits were clumsy, incorrectly cited, and demonstrated a definite although fuzzy point of view. He ignored some valid criticisms while making superficial attempts to address other criticisms and the comments that accompanied his edits were often inflammatory.

Replying here so it makes sense, Dusty if you check WP:EW it does state The three-revert rule is a convenient limit for occasions when an edit war is happening fairly quickly, but it is not a definition of what "edit warring" means, and it is perfectly possible to edit war without breaking the three-revert rule, or even coming close to doing so. and in my limited experience with this editor, they robustly revert 3 times within the 24 hour limit, bluster in ES and do not engage on TPs, so I concur with your opinion that this is a breach of 3RR/EW. CaptainScreebo ^Parley! 16:19, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

2. That behavior has since stopped. Although Colleabois still shows a certain amount of obstinacy he seems to have confined that behavior to talk pages and forums such as this which I consider to be a vast improvement over his earlier behaviors (which have included among other things peppering an article's source with contentious HTML tags).

3. Colleabois has been difficult to deal with but is has also shown that he is not incapable of making positive contributions to our encyclopedia. In formulating our response to his negative behaviors we should take care not to chase him away.

Thank you for listening, Dusty|💬|You can help! 15:35, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

I think WP:POINTY doesn't says what you think it says. Are you sure you meant to link that, rather than WP:NPOV? Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 15:51, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Thank you Martijn. I've updated my comments to correct the error. Dusty|💬|You can help! 16:34, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

YahwehSaves

Please see a long, long list of complaints spanning years at WT:MIL#Guidance question from Admin or Sysop, please, including article talk page vandalism from today. The reasons the other editors were hesitant to report this at ANI might also be of interest. This came up recently three months ago at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive779#User:YahwehSaves refusing to leave signature. - Dank (push to talk) 03:21, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Recently? That link is from 3 months ago.

What is the current problem which requires admins? 88.104.27.2 (talk) 04:00, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Hey, didn't you used to be the banned user "Light current"? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 05:13, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Not even close. 88.104.27.2 (talk) 08:08, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Then how did you know who I was talking about? And you ARE close geographically. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:24, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

He's still not signing.[8] Supposedly, refusal to sign is a blockable offense. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 05:11, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Was already blocked 24hrs before regarding this issue. Another follow up seems appropriate.—Bagumba (talk) 08:31, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Also, disruptive editing at the Audie Murphy page. Talk:Audie Murphy#Closely checking for copyvio and sourcing details what we are trying to correct just from the most recent spate of his edits. There's more, but not everything has been checked from his March edits. Copyvio, no sourcing, and (in an earlier thread on that page), "don't know all the technicalities you're talking about or time to know" in response to editors asking him to properly source his edits. Audie Murphy is a GA, that we are trying to bring up to FA. Now we spend all our time checking and correcting the edits of YahwehSaves who lifts entire phrases from other sites and/or doesn't bother to source, refuses to learn the basics of editing in WP Manual of Style. — Maile (talk) 11:35, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Baseball, your diff above actually shows YS attempting to sign, they just got the format wrong. Four tildes present, so that is promising. I also cannot see any recent attempt to discuss the matter with YS before bringing to ANI. No admin action required at this point, I would say. GiantSnowman 11:43, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Oops, you're right. So why didn't the signature show up?←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:27, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

How about the disruptive editing? — Maile (talk) 11:45, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

The original complaint - now found to be premature - was about YS not signing posts. if YS is engaged in disruptive behaviour then please provide some diffs to evidence that. GiantSnowman 11:51, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

There are several MILHIST editors that have been monitoring this article and the complete debacle it has become due directly to the involvement of YS. He refuses to follow the MOS, has committed numerous copyvios and when reverted he just reverts and carries on as normal. The level of disruption is significant and sustained. Peacemaker67 (send... over) 12:02, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

YahwehSaves was invited to join the discussion at MILHIST, and has ignored the invitation. There have been around 50 disruptive edits in March, plus long non-productive ramblings from YahwehSaves on the Audie Murphy talk page. — Maile (talk) 12:10, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

If you provide a few recent diffs I will be happy to take a further look. GiantSnowman 12:18, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

I haven't dug out all the diffs, so take this with whatever grain of salt you choose, but I agree that YS has become an unnecessarily time-consuming, disruptive presence there. Attempts to discuss sourcing and copyright violation on that talk page don't seem to have made progress, as YS has stated that he/she doesn't have time to learn Wikipedia "technicalities". Maile posted a quick summary of what's happening to the Audie Murphy talk page at Talk:Audie Murphy#Dates below reflect YahwehSaves edits, my signature date is when I made changes that may give a start to whoever wants to catalogue this properly.

And, FWIW, a glance at the talk page does show various unsigned comments besides the one cited above: [9], [10], [11]. -- Khazar2 (talk) 12:30, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Give me some time. I'll give you the initial copyvio rv that happened and their reversal back and forth. Hope I'm doing this correctly: [12], [13], [14], [15], [16] These all concern one copyvio that YahwehSaves kept reverting. There's so much more disruptive editing that just this. That whole article is now embedded with recent bad edits by YahwehSaves that we are having to go through. But you also need to look at the talk pages on Audie Murphy and Military History to get the full picture of what has been going on. — Maile (talk) 12:39, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Here's another copyvio revert by me (different than the one above), of a YahwehSaves March 9 edit, [17], YahwehSaves has not been editing the article over the weekend, so we don't know if he'll revert this or not. A lot of the YahwehSaves edits being reverted are for no sourcing. In some cases, YahwehSaves edits contradicts known sources, but he won't cite his own source. In one case, he insisted the existing source was invalid and that his source was valid, but he refused to give his source. And in a great deal of what YahwehSaves has done to the article in March, we simply do not know where he got the information. Given his history of copyvio, we can't risk unsourced prose from him on an article that is aiming for FA WP Main Page attention.— Maile (talk) 13:14, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

This [18] March 19 diff is where YahwehSaves has replied to a source challenge with, " I'm not a professional editor and don't know all the technicalities you're talking about or time to know." — Maile (talk) 13:42, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

March 17 and 18 diff [19], in which YahwehSaves removed text and existing sourcing from both an online site named GlobalSecurity (which he claims is not good) and also sourcing from the United States Army War Department official records. He replaced the removed sourcing with unsourced scans. In spite of his being told on the talk page that scans are not sources and that the article text required sourcing, YahwehSaves did not remove the scans and source his editing. I reverted these unsourced edits of YahwehSaves [20] on March 22. — Maile (talk) 15:03, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

This same editor showed similar tendencies with the Medal of Honor article around the same time as the first complaint linked by Dank above. A quick glance at his/her talk page seems to show a history of issues with this kind of behavior. Intothatdarkness 16:10, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Well, regarding GlobalSecurity, he's right. As for the rest of his issues, though, I agree that this editor is not a benefit to the project, and may indeed be a net drain. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 02:20, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

I would like to propose a couple of topic ban-mentoring options. My goal is to get the Audie Murphy article up to A-class at the Military History project, and eventual FA nomination. Related articles of Filmography and the Honors and Awards pages need to be in sync on content. Most of my post-March 7 edits on the Audie Murphy page were clean up from YahwehSaves. The main article is treading water on its GA status, and I would like to deter YahwehSaves from branching out to the other two articles. (The filmography does not carry the Military History banner as the other two do) . I also note YahwehSaves's history at Medal of Honor. This editor also has 195 edits on Matt Urban under his own name, and 27 IP edits under the "suspected sock" that got him a temporary block. The posts on the Military History talk page indicate that other editors have tried to engage YahwehSaves on other like articles. Therefore, I would like to offer:

• Proposal #1 - Topic ban on all Audie Murphy articles (Audie Murphy, Audie Murphy honors and awards and Audie Murphy filmography), contingent upon YahwehSaves agreeing to mentoring. The ban would only be lifted if the mentor feels YahwehSaves has made enough progress to freely edit on Wikipedia.

• Proposal #2 -Topic ban on all Audie Murphy articles (Audie Murphy, Audie Murphy honors and awards and Audie Murphy filmography), AND all articles that carry the WikiProject Military History banner. This would be contingent upon YahwehSaves agreeing to mentoring. The ban would only be lifted if the mentor feels YahwehSaves has made enough progress to freely edit on Wikipedia.

If YahwehSaves will not agree to undergo mentoring, then there should be a block for disruptive editing. Vote or comment. — Maile (talk) 12:15, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

• It might make things less complicated if we ask YahwehSaves if they're interested in mentoring; it doesn't seem likely. - Dank (push to talk) 13:00, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Wouldn't that be how either of the proposals would work? I've not dealt with ANI before. But it seems if one of those proposals is decided on, then YahwehSaves is notified that this is the deal. If YahwehSaves fails to respond, or refuses the mentoring, then the block goes into effect. You put a notice on his talk page when you opened this ANI, and engaging in the dialogue here has always been his option. I might add that on March 20 a notice was put on his talk page regarding the dialogue happening on the talk page at WikiProject Military History. He didn't respond to that, either, but continues to edit at Audie Murphy and at the Audie Murphy talk page. — Maile (talk) 13:10, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Comment Given YS' complete lack of interest in the attempts of the community to engage him regarding our concerns about his editing, I believe mentoring options would be a waste of time. I believe the only effective way to deal with him is a lengthy (6 month) topic ban on Audie Murphy-related articles, with an option for appeal after 3 months if he has demonstrated he has learned how to edit properly and in a non-disruptive manner. Peacemaker67 (send... over) 21:05, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Caste sanctions enforcement request

Pnranjith (talk · contribs) has been arguing rather strongly and without a lot of regard for Wikipedia policies on Talk:Ezhava, an article which falls under the general sanctions placed by the community on all caste-related articles. That's irritating, but since s/he's not edit warring on the article, can be managed to some degree. However, the editor has also repeatedly been aggressive and abusive. Previous attacks for which the editor has been warned (see the user's talk page) include [21] and [22]. The user was also warned of the caste-article sanctions in User Talk:Pnranjith#Sanctions.

Today, Pnranjith made, among others, this edit, directly insulting Sitush. It's time for this to stop. I think that the user's personal involvement in the underlying dispute (having to do with whether or not two groups of people are actually two different groups or one group with two different names) is making it impossible for the editor to follow Wikipedia policies, since his/her need to get the Truth into Wikipedia is making her/him unable to follow rules like WP:RS and WP:V. As such, I think it's likely that the encyclopedia would benefit from the user being topic banned. But I understand that such a move requires quite a bit more analysis on the part of the ANI community, and so I would be satisfied that the user is at least blocked for ongoing personal attacks, and made to understand that any more poor behavior will result in further/longer sanctions. Qwyrxian (talk) 04:01, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Excuse the acronym soup but it is the WP:TE and WP:IDHT of this returning WP:SPA that concerns me more than calling me an idiot - plenty of people do that and sometimes they are right. In this case, I think it is caused by frustration: they think that I (and others) are using our policies as a means intentionally to deny what they consider to be true. Around April 2012, they got involved in an earlier version of this dispute when they hung on the coat-tails of Thiyyan (talk · contribs), now they're hanging on to Irajeevwiki (talk · contribs).

NB: there are admins all over Talk:Ezhava but they can do nothing (assuming they want to) because of WP:INVOLVED (Qwryxian, Martijn Hoekstra, RegentsPark, Drmies and also the ex-admin Boing! said Zebedee). - Sitush (talk) 19:28, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Ah, ANI, my favourite noticeboard. There is indeed a mess over at that page, focussing around the mess SPA's, if not tigers are causing there. There is a constant influx of IP editors and new SPA's who consistently hold the same viewpoint, which suggest meatpuppeting. The personal attacks made by these SPA's should stop, because firstly, it can be immensely draining to deal with it for those facing it, and secondly, because it impedes reasonable discussion. (I'd like to quickly compliment Sitush on the patience he is showing, and the way he lets these things slide off him). The thing that is probably even more draining is the unwillingness to get the point. The personal attacks are fairly easily actionable: a clear warning that any future personal attacks may result in a block, followed by a possible escalating series of blocks is certainly possible. The question is what that would achieve. Blocks for these kinds of things may help the NPA thing (which is in itself a pretty big win), but will not fix the underlying issues, and will likely further entrench the unwillingness to get the point, which is in my opinion a far greater problem. ANI has already authorised discretionary sanctions. I would support that any editor or IP starting to make the same point that has already been made over and over be advised to edit further on wikipedia on different issues, warned that perceived problematic behaviour may be met with a topic ban, topic-banned for a month (but not immediately blocked! turning an SPA POV pusher with a dissenting voice into a Wikipedian who has a better grasp of how we deal with reliable sources, and how that relates to OR would be a huge win) if there is a clear indication of refusal to get the point, even if there no evidence, and that that topic ban should be enforceable by block. As I am somewhat involved, I would currently (just) like to advice both Irajeevwiki and Pnranjith to expand their editing scope, and spend at least as much time on non-caste related subjects broadly construed as on this issue. If others agree with my suggestion, and believe anyone should be warned I would strongly agree with some warnings here and there. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 20:03, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

• I have blocked Pnranjith for 2 weeks for personal attacks. Decisions on what further actions to take (if any) can be made in the meantime - I would suggest a topic ban outright. Basalisk ^{inspect damage}⁄_berate 00:55, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

I am new to wikipedia, but wikipedia rules and regulations are very easy to understand and i whatever i have done so far in wiki is by abiding wiki rules. Only started responding to Ezhava articles talkpage when i recognized a lot of mistakes in the Ezhava page a few weeks ago, I believe Sitush (talk · contribs) wont object if i say that since we started this communication in Ezhava talk page, he had made so many amendments to the article. He took off sub caste section completely, because i pointed out that there was no valid reference for that claim. He has tweaked many times the article and it is getting better. But with only one thing still cant agree with Sitush (talk · contribs), that is "Thiyyar". I will say again that Thiyyar is completely distinct from other castes and should not be merged with Ezhava.

Sitush is confused with Nossitor books, just like Sitush many other writers got confused and followed what Nosittor has written about thiyyar. I repeat that again, Nossitor was a political writer he was helping Kerala Communist Party by writing a book which portrays Ezhava and Thiyya same caste for political gain. Please have a look the valid and genuine book written by Ritty A lukose, Edgar Thurston, T Damu, Dr. CJ Roy, Dr. Muhamadali and so on. I can supply more book references but no point of giving valid and genuine book references, Sitush (talk · contribs) just ignore it by saying **NOT RELIABLE** I feel sometime like Sitush (talk · contribs) is legislating own rules here and only ready to accept those book references which come inlines with his views which is completely wrong.

Ritty A Lukose http://books.google.com.au/books?id=R5gNOdw9E_0C&pg=PT269&lpg=PT269&dq=The+blindness+of+insight:+Essays+on+caste+in+modern+India+(Chennai:+Navayana,+2006)&source=bl&ots=B2pj6tuyzg&sig=8Nk9Rgn0gzUktwXJb8_ci4qyF50&hl=en&sa=X&ei=lf9DUc3CMeuaiQe87ICAAQ&ved=0CEAQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=tiyya&f=false

Dr CJ Roy

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=Pd8aAAAAMAAJ&q=tiyya++and+ezhava&dq=tiyya++and+ezhava&hl=en&sa=X&ei=T4pOUbSlLsTRkwXskIFI&ved=0CFYQ6AEwBg

Dr Muhammadali http://www.scribd.com/doc/54685053/Colonial-Knowledge-Nationalism-and-Representations-Readings-from-Malabar

There is a big controversy going on about Thiyya / Ezhava castes at the moment, http://www.hindu.com/2004/09/03/stories/2004090310670500.htm . I request wikipedia admins to either stop Ezhava article until this issue gets resolved or publish Two different articles for both Ezhava and Thiyya. An article is still waiting for approval in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_creation/Thiyyar which has been written in a neutral point of view and it just explains only the Thiyyar caste, culture and history. Because of POV fork issue this article cant get published.

I have placed a POV check tag in Ezhava page and we are discussing in ezhava talk page as per wiki rules and I dont know why Sitush (talk · contribs) tries to impose sanction on me, I am here trying for a consensus by discussing. If you stop someone by imposing ban or sanction then it would be unfair to that person. Irajeevwiki (talk) 02:12, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

What you are doing right now is demonstrating your issues with WP:IDHT. Ritty A. Lukose has been discussed on the articles talkpage. Edgar Thurston has been discussed on the articles talkpage. The paper from Muhammadali has been discussed on the articles talkpage. Damu has been discussed on the articles talkpage. You were part of most off those discussions - actually you started most off them. Time and time again we come to the conclusion that there are issues with the sources - either because they are flat out unreliable on the subject (Thurston), because what they write about the reliation between Thiyya and Ezhava is ambiguous or trivial (both off these in the case off Lukose). But here you are again, bringing up the same subject. Over and over. Were you not part off the original discussion? How many times will you still bring this up again? Until people start agreeing with you? You've had several uninvolved admins come in, and come to the same conclusions. But you keep on insisting that everyone is wrong but you, and the slew off SPA's that at best seem to have serious difficulties in reading the article, and at worst seem to be recruited as meatpuppets to echo a repeated sentiment, without bringing anything new to the table. Bringing up new sources is fine, even if together we come to the conclusion that we can't use it. But for the love off god, everyone is getting tired about hearing you bringing up Thurston yet again. You were part of the discussion. You know how it ended. Abide by it. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 09:49, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

• I've been following the Ezhava/Thiyya thing (though I have not had the time to get too involved in it), and I agree with Qwyrxian, Sitush and Martijn Hoekstra. It looks like we have a concerted effort, both on-wiki and off-wiki, to raise the status of Thiyya - but nobody has offered any reliable sources to support their claims. Should the status change, it needs to be recognised by reliable sources *first* and then Wikipedia can echo those - the change cannot start on Wikipedia. This has been explained to the same protagonists over and over again, in repeated discussions covering the same ground - but they refuse to listen. This kind of caste-advocacy disruption is exactly what the caste sanctions were designed to stop, and I think we need to start enforcing them firmly on this topic. I suggest blocks and/or topic bans for editors who continue with these "wall of sound" attempts to overwhelm consensus and make changes in defiance of sourcing policy. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 11:28, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

I have to admit that I can understand the new editor's frustration, because there do, in fact, seem to be some primary sources that may support their version, and I even believe them when they say that their personal experience supports their preferred version. But, as Boing! says, we must follow our own rules on sourcing. If the Truth is so obvious, then, really, someone should have written about it somewhere...or, if they haven't (for some sort of political reason), then these new editors ought to try to find somewhere to write about it. Until that happens, however, we need to be able to reach a point where we don't have to keep having this conversation every 2 hours with the next new account. Qwyrxian (talk) 13:20, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

The behavior of User:Pnranjith as documented here seems to be the exact type of thing that the caste sanctions were intended to address. I propose a topic ban of Pnranjith from all caste articles, per the usual phrase from the sanctions log: "All edits relating to any caste across all namespaces". At some point the editor could appeal to have the sanctions lifted if it turns out they can create a record of neutral editing in other areas. You can check the editors' comments at Talk:Ezhava if you want to study his work more carefully, being aware that he sometimes signs as 'Ranjith'. EdJohnston (talk) 15:19, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

A discussion is still happening in ezhava talk page, (talk) can't say that we have come to a conclusion on those book references subject. I have read wiki policies and I'm doing things here as per wiki rules only. I'm not happy with decision of some admins to reject some authors books just because the content doesn't come inline with their views. I like to get senior admins attention into this. Have seen above mentioned authors books used as references on many wiki articles. Even on ezhava, Sitush was using EdgarThurston books. When the discussion got heated up he just remove it from the article and started saying Edgar Thurston not trustworthy. Edgar Thurstn is just example. Sitush and other admins who giving backup to him for the past many years have been rejecting all the books which I provided with valid and genuine reference, sorry to know that an editor can do anything here if he gets backup from SOME strong admins. 123.243.18.3 (talk) 19:03, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Even on ezhava, Sitush was using EdgarThurston books. - no I wasn't. Someone had used it and, yes, I removed it. This misunderstanding is typical of the problems being faced in the discussion. Who are you, by the way? The only edit by a 123.* IP on that talk page offers no sources. I do hope that you are not Pnranjith because the problems of socking have already been highlighted in the discussion prior to their recent block. - Sitush (talk) 19:26, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict) There are no "senior admins" - in fact, admins have no say whatsoever on content and sourcing issues. If you disagree with the current consensus on a particular source and cannot obtain satisfaction on an article talk page, you can take it to either a relevant project talk page or the Reliable Sources noticeboard (but do be aware that repeatedly bringing up the same issues with no new information can result in sanctions against you) -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 19:32, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

• Pnranjith is still using his talk page to make personal attacks on Sitush and Qwyrxian - I suggest his block should be upped to indefinite and his ability to edit the page revoked. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 05:10, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

• And in the last 24 hours the relatively new contributor Amal89 has been attacking and making threats, resulting in me issuing a warning. This seems clearly to be co-ordinated off-wiki, as was suspected when the issues were raised last year. I am now becoming a bit irritated by it all, despite my earlier note here that these things originate in frustration with our policies etc. - Sitush (talk) 07:30, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

• reading over his talkpage, I no longer believe Pnranjit is able to or willing to have any discussion not based on the idea that paid editors and admins are out to get him. I request him to be topic banned, and frankly see no other outcome than an indefinite block. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 08:06, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

I was just coming here to mention the same legal threat and personal attack. Please note that Amal89 was already notified of WP:NLT (see these edits by myself and Martin Hoekstra). Amal's "defense" of "This is not a legal threat, but you should know that you will be prosecuted under the following sections of the IPC" is BS. The only way these types of articles is if we shut down the aggression, attacks, and bad faith editing ASAP. I'm a little to blame here, in that every time I show up at a new caste article as an admin, I invariably get drawn into the content dispute, and thus become unable to act administratively. Qwyrxian (talk) 07:54, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

Also, wrt Pnranjith, I tried to selectively delete his comments on his talk page that contained a link to an attack website against one of the editors here (leaving all of the rest of the vitriol), but for some reason the link's still appearing in the history. Can anyone else figure out how to get it out of there? Note that I don't think that removal of such a blatantly offensive link violates WP:INVOLVED, but if it does, fine, desysop me; it's not worth that link appearing for even one minute more. Qwyrxian (talk) 08:03, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

Regarding the vandalism of my talk page by Deven94 whilst logged out

Hi,

Further to my recent report, User:Deven94 has attacked my talk page directly by page blanking it using User talk:149.254.182.207.

It's a bit difficult for me to link each instance individually, but this link http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Usual_people_in_life&action=history

Provides a summary of the edits (which I have now reverted).

Please could someone now consider a block on his account and access because this in my opinion is a direct attack against me, and I am tired of having to revert his edits.

He has also blanked his own talk page on his account, possibly to cover his tracks.

Dev has also been given a personalised warning by WP admin.

Is it time for a block on his access?

If you do block him, could you IPBE (IP Block Exempt) me please, so that I don't get affected.

Thanks, Usual people in life (talk) 13:50, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

• You likely need to talk to a Checkuser. Look at the bottom of the page WP:SPI or find one active on the WP:Functionaries page. This is the kind of IPBE that admin aren't going to even consider without a CU being involved. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 15:21, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Are you saying that you and Deven94 are on the same IP network ? —Soap— 16:49, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

• Thanks for the quick response.

Soap: The answer to your question is yes and no (it depends on where I am). As can be seen from my account data, I created my account around 2 or 3 years ago at home to edit more effectively. Deven94 only created his at his home around January this year (to my knowledge) simply to vandalize the site as account creation is blocked at college. Most of my edits at college are attempts to revert his vandalism whilst trying to avoid 3RR, (I reverted a batch of them against my user page around 2PM GMT). Unfortunately, me reverting his damage appears to have led to him starting to vandalize my user space and seeming to try to attack my on-line accounts. I don't think college is prepared to contribute to the WP X-Forwarded For (XFF) project that is hosted to identify who is doing what. I can assure you though that the activity that deven94 is generating IS being logged by college servers against his college account - I've reported directly to IT support that he is abusing his WP access.

It appears the same, which may be because I often use a college VPN to access my college files, the result of which is that as a side effect I 'appear' to be on the same network as Deven94 but I'm actually elsewhere (see the logs for this edit to determine my true IP location as I'm currently disconnected from the VPN and I don't use proxies - I suspect Deven94 does use them) I logged in at college a few times to feedback to WP admins that I had notified college admin of the IP edit abuse occurring at college and also to (try to) revert his vandalism.

It's an unfortunate side effect of having such a large college network - everything appears to be from one person when it is actually from over 1000 people at the college.

Is there anything that can be done to prevent deven from blanking my talk page again? I say this because he also blanked his talk page which wiped out the warning Dennis Brown left there. (I feel that if I revert the blanking I will be subjected to more vandalism from him so I'm not prepared to even attempt it, I'd rather leave that to WP admin)

Feel free to contact me at my e-mail address if you need to - I have a feeling that deven will be watching this page waiting to blank it.

In the meantime, would it be best for me to avoid logging in at college or when using the college VPN?

Thanks Usual people in life (talk) 18:53, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Wikihounding by Purplebackpack89

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Purplebackpack89 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Purplebackpack89 is checking my contributions and following me to places he wouldn't find otherwise, just to delete anything I try to save it seems.

I previously complained about his actions, explaining WP:HOUNDING to him, he just erasing my message without responding there. [23]

He then later makes a comment about it on talk page at User_talk:Dream_Focus#Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion.2FDreamship where he says "Let that be a lesson to you: if you weren't so busy trying to start shit with me, that article might still be around". He has previously complained about me and the Wikipedia I'm an active part of, the Article Rescue Squadron, dragging those debates all over the place.

After commenting in an AFD I was in, he then goes to deletion review I started where he says nothing other than say "endorse", to endorse the deletion. I ask him about that on his talk page, he claiming he has the right to follow my contributions. [24] He then deletes that discussion instead of responding again. Can someone explain to him that he is not allowed to follow someone's contributions around just to argue with them like he keeps doing? Dream Focus 19:25, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

• Speedy close with a TROUT-slap and a boomerang: First off, DreamFocus has yet to produce diffs that show me directly responding to something he said on Dreamship or any other page. So we both commented on the same page? Not seeing the problem; DreamFocus and I are both active participants in AfDs and DRVs. If you looked at the last 100 pages DreamFocus has edited; you'd see that I haven't edited 80-90 of them, so I think the HOUNDing accusation is totally baseless. And, yes, DreamFocus should be admonished for his actions regarding Dreamship; when I tagged it, the first thing he did was accuse me of HOUNDing. Meanwhile, he didn't even bother to improve the article or even participate in the AfD discussion. You're darn right that I have deleted messages DreamFocus has posted on my talk page in the past. I consider them to be disruptive; after all, this is an editor who's been in and out of ANI dozens of times and been blocked thrice. Not sure what DreamFocus' comment about the ARS has to do with Wikihounding, either. Also, DreamFocus is being horrendously hypocritical; just the other day, he followed me to a discussion I was having with User:Colonel Warden here pbp 19:37, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

  I have Warden's talk page on my watchlist. I have posted there before, and we are both active members of the same Wikiproject. I did not follow you. Dream Focus 19:45, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

  OK, so lemme get this straight...it's OK for you to follow Warden (and me when I post to his talkpage)? Why isn't that HOUNDing? pbp 20:01, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

  Noticing a talk page on your watchlist and responding is fine. Going to someone's contributions just to follow them around however is not. I did NOT follow you at anytime. Dream Focus 20:08, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

• Someone please read the links I provided. Don't let him distort things. Don't his comments look like he was mad at me and that's why he went to someplace I had worked on something? No other way he could've found that. Dream Focus 19:43, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
  • I was under the impression it took a lot more instances of interaction before its really considered hounding. It's hard to see much of a trend with so few difs. Certainly doesn't seem like anything actionable beyond a "Hey guys, calm down before this escalates into something more-actionable" type advice. Just my two cents. Sergecross73 msg me 20:08, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
    • He's done it more, just now and again. Here is one [25]. I thought those two recent ones though proved it was happening. Can someone just confirm he is not allowed to follow my contributions like he has clearly done? Dream Focus 20:11, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
      • It's not clear that I do that from the information given. Also, looking at another editor's contributions from time to time is perfectly acceptable, so nobody is going to tell me not to do it. Finally, "now and again" doesn't make it HOUNDing; for it to be HOUNDing, it'd have to happen way more often than it does. As I said above, I have never edited most of the last 100 pages you've edited. Also, what I'm seeing from your last diff is more a disruptive editor making an unfounded accusation of HOUDing, not actual HOUNDing pbp 20:19, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Here is a list of the pages both of you have edited. Clicking on the "timeline" link gives you details about the interactions on each page. It would be interesting if one of you did a count of how many times something from Dream Focus was followed by a reply by Purplebackpack89 vs. how many times something from Purplebackpack89 was followed by a reply by Dream Focus. If the posing is random, the two numbers should be somewhat close. --Guy Macon (talk) 20:36, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

• Whether or not Purblebackpack is following Dream Focus' edits is irrelevant. If an editor is worried about the quality of another editor's article work or arguments, following their edits is a good way to correct errors. Wikihounding only occurs if the purpose of following the editor is to harass them. I'm not seeing sufficient evidence of that. Ryan Vesey 20:48, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
  • Having an argument with someone, then checking their edits to find something you can go to which they are trying to safe and state you believe it should be deleted, is hounding. Dream Focus 20:52, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
• Guy Macon, That list is mostly just AFDs which were tagged on the Rescue Wikiproject, so it doesn't really tell anything. Dream Focus 20:52, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
  • I strongly agree with Dream Focus, and I highly doubt that pbp's intentions for edit stalking them are valid. Pbp has a history of first declaring someone disruptive, then using that defamation as an excuse to hound them. I've asked him 9 times to stay off my talk, and still he refuses to respect that request. GabeMc ^{(talk|contribs)} 21:03, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

• For a brief history of pbp's propensity for hounding, look here, here, and here. GabeMc ^{(talk|contribs)} 20:53, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

To Dream Focus; You can tell the tool to only look at articles, only look at article talk pages, only look at user talk pages, etc. As for the claim "it doesn't really tell anything" I contend that it is two or three cherry-picked examples that do not really tell us anything. You need to establish that it is not just random chance that two editors with lots of edits and similar interest keep hitting the same pages. I have not done a count myself, so I have no idea whether your claim is accurate. --Guy Macon (talk) 21:38, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

• He did admit it already didn't he? He is following my contributions in violation in the hounding rule. Every time someone gets mad at you for daring to disagree with them on something, they shouldn't be able to check your contributions, and follow you somewhere they wouldn't have ever found otherwise, just to irritate you. Dream Focus 21:45, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

• Per WP:HOUND: "Many users track other users' edits, although usually for collegial or administrative purposes. This should always be done carefully, and with good cause, to avoid raising the suspicion that an editor's contributions are being followed to cause them distress, or out of revenge for a perceived slight." That last part sure sounds like pbp to me. GabeMc ^{(talk|contribs)} 21:54, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
• Seems pretty clear to me, from looking at the editor interaction analyzer results noted above, that no actual hounding has occurred. Most of the instances seemed to show Dream popping up after pbp, but since Dream frequents AfD and a large amount of those discussions noted were listed at the ARS, it seems highly unlikely that this is anything more than both of them getting to the same place on their own.--The Devil's Advocate _{tlk. cntrb.} 00:22, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

User:GabeMc: personal attacks, deadhorse

GabeMc (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) GabeMc seems to have found this discussion, most likely via the same edit-searching method DreamFocus is critical of above. He brings up Danjel drama that is old news and ended with Danjel retiring in disgrace, in part for (surprise, surprise!) HOUNDing Epeefleche and me. But, in response to why did I post to GabeMc's talkpage? Personal attacks GabeMc levied against me like this might have something to do with it. Bringing up Harry Potter over and over again in WP:VA/E-relating discussion after three different threads resulted in keeping him on the list might have something to do with it. Could I get a "stop the personal attacks, and stop bringing up Harry Potter over and over again", please? pbp 21:26, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

• FWIW, I have ANI watchlisted, so no, I didn't find this thread via searching your contribs pbp, always remember to assume good-faith. GabeMc ^{(talk|contribs)} 21:37, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

• Kinda hard to AGF to somebody who called me a "Type-A control freak" pbp 23:05, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

• Pbp, yes, I regrettably made that snarky comment once, but I struck-out the comment within minutes of making it. You on the other hand, have repeated the phrase at least 10–15 times since. So, if you need an apology to drop this, then fine, I'm really sorry. I should not have made that comment nor will I again. Can we please move on now? GabeMc ^{(talk|contribs)} 23:22, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Shameless VA/E plug

While we're here, everybody should participate in the numerous discussions going on at WP:VA/E and WP:VA pbp 21:26, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Calm down

At least it's all in one place, but you guys seem to have all just moved your individual feuds to ANI. I don't really think there's any admin action needed, but rather you all should try to just relax. Maybe stay away from confronting each other for a little (that goes for everyone accusing and being accused in this discussion). You don't have to go out of your way to avoid eachother, but maybe just trying not to antagonize for a little couldn't hurt. I'd close this discussion, but I'm not an administrator and perhaps someone else will see a solution to this problem. But a highly doubt one will form that will require administrative action and have a consensus. So just take it easy. Make your arguments, hold your discussions, but keep it to the content, not to the editors.--Yaksar (let's chat) 00:34, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

• Yaksar, do you deny following my edits for a year?  Do you deny following RANs edits?  Unscintillating (talk) 01:59, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

A review of PBP's talk page seems to show a long history of complaints and possible abuse of the rules here. I suggest we block him.Bipalabras (talk) 04:04, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Sock created with my name

Choyooł'įįhí:Seb az86556 (talk · contribs)

Please delete account admonish user. Thanks. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 ^{> haneʼ} 20:49, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Choyooł'įįhí:Seb az86556 is a wp:doppelganger, not a sock. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 is not a registered account. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 20:55, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

And why are you my doppelganger? Did I ask you to do that? Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 ^{> haneʼ} 20:56, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Blocked with extreme prejudice. DMacks (talk) 20:59, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

I reduced the prejudice. But yes, Emmette, that's pretty inappropriate. DMacks (talk) 21:02, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Oh really, so now someone else has a password to an account that could be me who is blocked? I want that password. The only reason I even found out was that I happened to see Emmette's contribs; didn't even bother to tell me. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 ^{> haneʼ} 21:03, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

There was a tiny difference in the apostrophes, it seems; Choyooł'įįhí:Seb az86556 (talk · contribs) was the "real" impostor, and Im not sure how Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 (talk · contribs) figures into it but it is not an actual user, impostor or otherwise. It seems that Emmette Hernandez Coleman created the account, thinking he was doing you a favor, and there was a misunderstanding because he didn't tell you. So I hope we can all understand and forgive and forget now. —Soap— 21:06, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

No. I want the password. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 ^{> haneʼ} 21:08, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

That's up to you and Emmette to discuss, but I warn you both now that posting passwords on-wiki is grounds for immediate account blocking as a security risk (and to answer a variation, it's not possible for anyone *else* to look up that password if Emmette declines to give it to you him/herself). The account is indef'ed with talkpage access disabled, so there's no use for it. DMacks (talk) 21:11, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

What kinda bullshit is that? Someone holds the password to my name. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 ^{> haneʼ} 21:13, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Consider this: anyone who tries that not-actually-your-account right now is not actually you, so the person doing them is liable to be blocked. And whoever has that password is powerless to use it anyway (even if you had it yourself). Your best bet is to leave it alone, and avoid taking on the risk of using a tainted account. Alternately, you can discuss off wiki whatever you two want regarding trying to use a blocked account. DMacks (talk) 21:20, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

[edit conflict] The account's blocked, and nobody's going to unblock it; Emmette couldn't do anything with the account even if he wanted to. Nyttend (talk) 21:22, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Rename resquested. Leave it. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 ^{> haneʼ} 21:25, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict)I created the account to keep Seb from being impersonated, that's why I used the {{doppelganger-other}} tag. I don't see how that is inappropriate, if it is why do we have the {{doppelganger-other}} tag? Seb, I don't hold password to your name, I used a radioum password that I never bothered to record. Even if I did it would be a major improvement over the previous sutetion where everyone with an Internet connection held your name, no password necessary. had I routinely create these doppelganger accounts, and nothing ever came of it before. I used to inform people when I cerated a doppelganger for them, but then I realized that someone might see one of those messages and get the idea to create an imposer account, which is exactly what I'm trying to prevent. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 21:36, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Completely inappropriate; you might come from a culture where names do not matter; handling someone else's name or names without their permission is the highest possible offense. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 ^{> haneʼ} 21:38, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

The vast majority of us come from such a culture, and many or most people reading this thread (me, for example) had no clue that Navajo culture was different; it would be unreasonable to expect EHC to act differently in your case from other people's cases. Nyttend (talk) 21:44, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

There is no good reason to create doppelganger accounts for other users. I've nominated that template for deletion. Ryan Vesey 21:47, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Exactly. It would be reasonable to expect that no-one does this kinda shit for whatever reason. Who the fuck is this user to usurp some sorta managing position like that??? Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 ^{> haneʼ} 21:48, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Is there some reason for the foul language? We get it that you are pissed off. Swearing doesn't help your cause it seems.--Malerooster (talk) 23:27, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

If there was ever a good reason for using the word fuck...this would be it. This is an odd sort of thread. What is going on exactly that a user's name is being used in this manner. I think Seb should be allowed to usurp that name in some manner so that it may never be used again.--Amadscientist (talk) 00:01, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

That's the point, there is NO good reason for foul language here. All it shows is ignorance and immaturity. --Malerooster (talk) 00:05, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

We don't censor editors and when there appears to be a reaction that anyone could understand, why would you care that the word was used? Incivility isn't a matter of the use of a single word...its how it is used.--Amadscientist (talk) 06:16, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Well, He can swear all he wants to, and it's up to him to decide whether or not he cares about what others may think. Chamal ^T•C 12:23, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

I think there's a serious lack of WP:AGF here. Emmette clearly didn't mean to cause any damage by doing this: he thought he was doing something good in order to protect other users, he broke no rule (and even used a template created explicitly for this purpose), and he intended to help the project, not damage it. Yes, perhaps it was a bit too presumptuous of him to do this, perhaps it was a tad inappropriate, and perhaps he should have notified Seb that he'd done this (in fact, he definitely should have), but ultimately he was acting in good faith, and there has been no damage caused. Perhaps a trout is in order for Emmette, but that's about it. – Richard BB 13:04, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Other account creations

Emmette Hernandez Coleman has apparently created a number of alternate accounts for other users. The account above was clearly not created at the user's request, so I question whether any of the others were requested. At least a few of these are rather inappropriate, and while probably well-intentioned, these account creations should stop. ​—DoRD (talk)​ 21:43, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

• Absolutely. Ryan Vesey 21:50, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict)They weren't requested. I understand Seb, as that seems to be a cross-cultural issue, but otherwise I don't see how it's inappropriate. Before I registered then any potential impostor could have registered and used them. Now that I have, no one, not even I, can use them (they all have scrambled passwords). If this is inappropriate, why do we even have the {{Doppelganger-other}} tag? Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 21:56, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

I've nominated that for deletion. Ryan Vesey 21:58, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Don't make me exotic or whatever. There are numerous people who wouldn't want you or anyone else to do this, just like they wouldn't want you to cover their house with mirror-sheets so it saves energy and lowers their electricity bill. You just don't do that kinda stuff. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 ^{> haneʼ} 22:01, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Best place to add comment, I guess. Totally agree that I would go completely ballistic if someone set up a "friendly" doppleganger account for me, no I'm not Navajo (peace to the nation in passing), live in Europe but take any kind of ID usurpation very badly, well-intended or not. Also, WTF, the user is entitled to let off steam and, for fuck's sake say fuck, if they are really pissed about a really serious issue, such as having one's identity ripped-off. To quote God knows who, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions". CaptainScreebo ^Parley! 16:36, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

None of this makes any sense. Don't we have the account creator right for users who are trusted to do this? If Coleman isn't an account creator, he needs to agree to stop immediately. Since he doesn't understand why people have a problem with this, he should be given a restriction. Viriditas (talk) 00:04, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Speaking as someone who has had the account-creator rights for use on the unblock-en mailing list, it just lets you skirt the 6 accounts per day limit or whatever the number is. -- ۩ Mask 08:46, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

There's no point continuing this argument here at ANI. Wikipedia policy doesn't say that a doppelganger account cannot be created by one user on behalf of another. Therefore Emmette's actions (which were clearly done in good faith) are technically not wrong. Personally I feel this is inappropriate, but my personal opinion doesn't really matter for this discussion. The issue on the template is being handled separately at TFD already, and if anybody thinks a change in policy is required you can propose it at Wikipedia:Village pump (policy) or any other appropriate location, but ANI is not the place. Chamal ^T•C 12:23, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

I should also mention that account creators do create doppelgangers for other users if and when requested. IIRC I have created a couple myself when I was an account creator before I got the admin tools, although it doesn't happen often as far as I know (although I don't really know anything about the present situation). Chamal ^T•C 14:25, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Emmette, if you are going to create dopplegangers on behalf of other users (though I very strongly suggest you don't, as there is zero reason to), at least have the manners to notify them in future. GiantSnowman 15:11, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

I'm confused. I see messages up above saying User:Choyooł'įįhí:Seb az86556 is blocked, but I see no indications of that in that User's block log. RNealK (talk) 22:43, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

The account has been renamed, so there is currently no user with that name. --Carnildo (talk) 23:12, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Does that open up the possibility of the account being created again? Evanh2008 ^{(talk|contribs)} 03:53, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

Personal attack by MathSci

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Can someone please instruct MathSci to refrain from personal attacks at User:Jmh649/Will Beback?[26] I don't know what MathSci's beef is, but they should address the comments, not the contributor. I attempted in good faith to work this out with MathSci on their talkpage[27] but MathSci apparently refused to respond in good faith.[28] A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 23:50, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

What was the personal attack? Malleus Fatuorum 23:53, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

What was the personal attack? Mathsci (talk) 23:56, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

The OP should be warned or blocked for removing other people's comments. I will not revert again, but the OP keeps calling this a personal attack which is in its self a personal attack. --Malerooster (talk) 00:00, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict)@MathSci: This has already been explained to you.[29] Please, address the contribution, not the contributor. I hoped to avoid ANI, but when I tried talking to you on your talkpage, you responded by deleting my kind request.[30] Please, if you want to disagree with what I said, go ahead and do so. But there's no need to make personal attacks. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 00:04, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

So what was the personal attack? Malleus Fatuorum 00:06, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Just to be clear AQFK, saying that you are "adding to the drama" is a personal attack? --Malerooster (talk) 00:08, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. Yes, saying that, "I was not surprised to see that you added to the drama by creating your very own section." is clearly a personal attack. It says nothing about the substance of what I said, but only addresses me as a contributor. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 00:14, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

ok, I would let somebody else remove or RPA or whathaveyou to that comment, if they agree, thats all. --Malerooster (talk) 00:16, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

If that's your idea of a personal attack, you have led a very sheltered WP life, A Quest For Knowledge. Bielle (talk) 00:21, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

You just don't seem to get it AQFK. By accusing Mathsci of making personal attacks you are making one yourself. It's really not hard once you realise that Wikipedia's "personal attack" policy is a complete load of codswallop mainly employed by the feckless and disingenuous. Malleus Fatuorum

I have it on reliable authority that Wikepedia's personal attack policy is in tears at being called "a load of codswallop" and has posted a "Retired" template on its page and flounced off. Yet again Malleus Fatuorum's namecalling has driven a hardworking and respected policy off the project! Oh where will it end! Bishonen | talk 00:43, 26 March 2013 (UTC).

(edit conflict)@Malerooster: Will you please remove the offending part for me? I have no problem with someone disagreeing with me. It's not the first time and it's not the last. But they need to address are argument, not the contributor. A Quest For Knowledge (talk)

Your still not getting it, but here's a clue for you. Mathsci was commenting on what you'd done, not on you. Malleus Fatuorum 00:28, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

@MF: Pray tell, what have I done? I've been extremely consistent that all editors - no matter who they are - should address one another with respect and adherence to WP:PA and WP:CIVIL. If you can find a genuine instance of me failing to abide by these principles, I'll donate a $100 in cancer research (or whichever charity you want). Does that sound fair? A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 00:37, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

BTW, this propensity to prematurely close down discussions before reaching consensus is a major problem with AN/I. I've mentioned this before and I'll mention it again. FWIW, I was not asking for a site-ban or even a topic-ban to the offending editor. I just want them to not make personal attacks. Is that really so much to ask? A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 00:50, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

BTW, this discussion was closed down by the personal attacker themselves.[31] Does anyone actually disagree with all the diffs I've provided? Can we have an independent admin examine the diffs and proceed accordingly? A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 01:05, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

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No, I would like someone to answer why it's OK to make personal attacks against me. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 02:03, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

I haven't done anything wrong and nor has there been a single diff presented against me. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 02:07, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

"not surprised to see that you added to the drama" is a comment about the person. "Your comment added to the drama" would have been a comment about what the person had done. It's often better to let these discussions run their course than to try closing them quickly. Tom Harrison ^Talk 01:21, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

No, "you are a drama-monger" would be a comment about a person. A comment about an action in the active voice rather than the passive voice is still a comment about an action. I closed this discussion in an attempt to avoid another pointless, drawn-out thread that achieves nothing. Basalisk ^{inspect damage}⁄_berate 01:56, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

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Questionable edits and legal threats at Illegal immigration to the United States

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I have indefinitely blocked User:Nanoatzin for making legal threats in connection with the article on Illegal immigration to the United States. This editor claimed the article was grossly biased in ways that violated the WMF's status as a tax-exempt charitable organization; he made a huge set of questionable changes to the article; and he stated that he would notify the IRS and US government officials if his changes were reverted.

I notified Nanoatzin that his comments were in violation of WP:NLT and told him he must agree to withdraw his threatening remarks before he can be unblocked. I also reverted the article to the condition it was in prior to Nanoatzin's lengthy round of changes. I am reporting my actions here at WP:ANI so that other admins can keep an eye on this situation, and also to give others a chance to reverse what I did in the (hopefully unlikely) event that they believe I overreacted. — Richwales (no relation to Jimbo) 06:18, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Good block. A totally in-your-face legal threat. The guy's been here a couple of years, and should know better. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 09:59, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

• Yep, good block. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 10:14, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
• The diff for Nanoatzin's inform government officials statement (beginning with "I WILL inform ...") is diff. Meets WP:NLT. -- Jreferee (talk) 11:51, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
• Bad block. How is "I WILL inform senators, representative, IRS, and DoE if an administrator removes any of my contributions when the edit may support a political agenda on this topic" a legal threat? User was being a dick, but then block for that. User did not threaten litigation. There was no legal threat here. -Nathan Johnson (talk) 14:45, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

An attempt to intimidate editors by employing threats of action by agents of the government. Good block. Tiderolls 14:55, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Everyone please note that I have sent a "heads-up" e-mail to legal (at) wikimedia.org about this issue. And while I'm not that terribly concerned about someone threatening to write their Senators and Congressperson about allegedly biased writing on Wikipedia, a threat to challenge the WMF's tax-exempt status by "notifying" the IRS of actions supposedly in violation of the rules for charitable organizations is most definitely a "legal" threat IMO. — Richwales (no relation to Jimbo) 16:06, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Can't get my head around this "threat". The main point seems to be "As an administrator, Wikipedia and you have entered into a fiduciary agreement that means anything that you do on behalf of the organization WILL compromise US charity status for the entire organization." Apparently Nanoatzin has the idea that admins are paid by the WMF and this is somehow against US law. Sounds like an accusation of WP:PAID to me. I don't think that admins are paid, but aren't charities allowed to pay their employees? Everything else is legalese / gibberish.--Auric talk 20:44, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

He was alleging that the content of the article (before he "corrected" it) constituted biased partisan political advocacy — something which tax-exempt charitable organizations are not allowed to engage in under US tax law. His "fiduciary agreement" verbiage meant that since admins are (supposedly) acting on behalf of the WMF, our actions in supporting this (in his view) objectionable content in Wikipedia articles reflect negatively on the WMF and jeopardize its tax-exempt status. And, as I said earlier, he vowed to inform the IRS (and other federal government people, but the IRS is what matters most here) of these supposed violations. — Richwales (no relation to Jimbo) 21:00, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

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RolandR SPI closed and archived without critical private (off wiki) information and evidence considered, and never sent to the Functionaries mailing list.

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• RolandR (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log)
• Patriot1010 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log)

Hello,

The evidence that was critical to this SPI: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/RolandR/Archive

Was denied by two members of the functionary team without seeing this information. Clerk: (Someguy1221) The information was sent to the functionaries-en-bounces AT lists.wikimedia.org email, and my last notice was that it was waiting for "Moderator approval"

However the case has already been archived by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:DoRD who admitted there was no email sent to the functionaries either, but decided to not even look at it and archive the case.

This is highly unusual, considering this is a very complex case. To simply archive it without looking at the information and NOT notifying the entire functionaries team is a violation of the SPI process, as this information could be considered private: "If your evidence includes emails or any other information not on Wikipedia's public pages, or is 'sensitive', if privacy is needed, or if you suspect sock puppetry by an administrator, you must e-mail the CheckUser team or the Arbitration Committee, and ask what to do. Private information, emails, logs, etc. must not be posted on Wikipedia."

I have been informed by another member of the functionary team and that user confirmed this information was not sent to the functionary email list, and that the information is still being held awaiting moderation.

Since the evidence has not been considered, I request that the case be held open, until the SPI is considered from ALL the information. Obviously, there is only a limited part of the entire SPI located publically. I also request locking of this ANI until this issue is resolved. Patriot1010 (talk) 16:08, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

I'd wager that RolandR is probably one the most harassed and hounded non-admins in the project. This simply appears to be yet another in a long line of spurious attacks tossed his way over the years; whatever "evidence" you think you have compiled about illegitimate socking is likely bullshit. Tarc (talk) 16:20, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Indeed, this is a fairly straighforward investigation with hard data. If the IPs and ISPs don't match up, including my special intructions, then I will be the first to apologize. Let's not bring in anything but facts here.Patriot1010 (talk) 16:49, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Second the bs claim. Patriot you have this misinformation that stats on pageviews can determine sockpuppetry. Under this, Tarc is my sockpuppet because we're both viewing this page. You also have a horrid understanding of the Checkuser tool, and when you were explained these two things, you didn't listen. Either start listening, or expect a boomerang for your failure to see when it's time to drop the stick and back away from the carcass (I think that's the saying). gwickwire^talk_editing 16:25, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

I would like to clarify the pageview claim is merely an indicator - however I have used this indicator to confirm the ISP IP in several cases. Patriot1010 (talk) 16:49, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

(ec x 2) Granted, I have not seen your email, but given the flaws with the existing case, I don't think that it will help much. However, if the information in the email does add something useful to the case, I will restore it. ​—DoRD (talk)​ 16:27, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Why have I not been notified of this discussion? It is a requirement: "You must notify any user who is the subject of a discussion".

This sockpuppet case was dismissed by oversighter Someguy1221 as " a load of horseshit".[32] But this editor is continuing to pursue it, and appears to have written privately to several admins with spurious "evidence".[33] I regard this as harassment (though, as Tarc notes above, not as egregious as much I have faced), and I request that he is advised to drop this and stop digging him/herself into a hole. RolandR (talk) 16:29, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

You aren't the subject of this ANI, The clerk and administrator who closed MY SPI CASE prematurely without the off-wiki data related to the case to the functionary group are the subjects. Notification is not required of the SPI case.Patriot1010 (talk) 16:43, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

I have attempted to make some sense of this post. It seems to boil down to "Keep my SPI case open". In short, no. Someguy1221 was rather harsh, but what he has said is correct. When we receive this other evidence, we can always reopen the case. --(ʞɿɐʇ) ɐuɐʞsǝp 16:39, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

No not at all, all this is, is to follow SPI procedure, specifically when it involves off-wiki data as provided by WP:SPI protocols. Is that too much to ask for? Patriot1010 (talk) 16:49, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

The SPI "procedure" is to decline baseless reports; as best I can tell, that procedure was followed here. At the top of the WP:SPI page says: "An investigation can only be opened if your evidence clearly shows, from suspicious Wikipedia edits, that two or more users (or different IP editors) seem likely to have the same operator and to be breaching our sock-puppetry policy." (emphasis in the original). Note the "from suspicious Wikipedia edits" part; not only is there no provision for special handling of private evidence, there is an explicit requirement for public evidence to provide sufficient cause for a checkuser request. I'd recommend someone close this section; nothing good will come of it. Writ Keeper (t + c) 16:54, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Indeed, thank you for supporting my case, since the evidence of "that two or more users (or different IP editors) seem likely to have the same operator and to be breaching our sock-puppetry policy." is contained in the private, off wiki information - thus closing this would violate what you just said, and then we would have a prematurely closed SPI case, and a prematurely closed ANI case. Patriot1010 (talk) 17:01, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Then you've totally ignored what I said. In order to open an SPI, there must be public evidence pointing to the likelihood that sockpuppetry is happening. The page says that, if you have private evidence, you need to email it to the Checkusers and wait for further instructions, not open a lengthy SPI replete with vague references to private information and then complain that it was closed for lack of actual evidence. Writ Keeper (t + c) 17:25, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

[edit conflict] Procedure says that we don't reopen investigations that have been denied because of impossibility. Nyttend (talk) 16:57, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Indeed, one cannot check impossibility until the IPs and ISP IPs are checked, as well as the other information. Patriot1010 (talk) 17:01, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict)Friendly advice from a fellow editor. I'm not an admin, but I try to behave as one. Patrior1010, I'd like to suggest that you immediately drop the WP:STICK and back away. Looking at your contributions (starting around March 14th) I see a pattern of behavior where you lash out at anybody who is offering you advice. This pattern has been played out many times as Suicide by Admin and is a poor way to end your wiki-editing career. You've had multiple highly trusted and vetted editors look at your complaints, look at your edits, and look at your evidence and only a "No, that's not puppetry". What you appear to be doing is conducting a campaign of harassment against RolandR. So before you respond further please read the pages regarding sock pupptetry, signs of sockpuppetry, and Wikipedia:CheckUser before you make any further accusations as I see a very short wiki-future for you if you do not immediately desist from these accusations and make a very significant and comprehensive apology to RolandR, the Checkuser team, and this board for wasting our time. Hasteur (talk) 17:04, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Patriot1010's stated reason for editing Wikipedia is to pursue "disputes against those of liberal bias, as well as pursuing liberal sockpuppets, meatpuppets, and countering liberal 'senior editor' vandalism, harrassment, and NPOV via WP:GAME." If that's not an explicit declaration of intent to use Wikipedia as an ideological battleground, I'm not sure what is. His decision to treat a garden-variety content dispute as a massive sockpuppet conspiracy perhaps makes more sense in this context. MastCell ^Talk 17:06, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

This comment may be of interest. Patriot1010 is picking up some bad habits. Sean.hoyland - talk 17:09, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

A comment here; as Hasteur points out Patriot1010's behaviour seems to have changed recently. This wild connecting of dots and conspiracy theories is, as far as I can see, out of keeping with past contributions and approaches. I've seen this sort of thing before in the real world, and so wonder if we might actually need to show some compassion for somebody who may not currently be quite himself. Slp1 (talk) 17:24, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

No, I didn't say that. I simply picked a date in their recent history when they became active again. Wikipedia is not therapy. I'm only showing a trend in the recent time frame that is significantly below the standards expected. Hasteur (talk) 17:30, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

I would like to remind some of WP:SPI: "All users are expected to focus only on evidence of sock policy breach and its analysis. Disruptive conduct may lead to removal from the case pages." Patriot1010 (talk) 17:34, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

This isn't SPI, this is ANI, so I'm not sure how that's relevant to anything at all. Seriously, can someone close this? Writ Keeper (t + c) 17:36, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

• Let's play a little game. Take a look at MastCell's link above. Substitute every "conservative" in Patriot's comment for "Christian" and every "liberal" for atheist. Then ask yourself how many minutes it would take such an editor to get blocked for soapboxing. Editor is clearly here to pursue his own political agenda and not to build an encyclopaedia. Basalisk ^{inspect damage}⁄_berate 17:35, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

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User:Romantic Realist

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Romantic Realist (talk · contribs) is one of the many SPAs that the Ping Fu/Bend, Not Break articles has attracted, and is one of the most persistent. They are very clearly violating critical principles, such as WP:NPOV, and have been reverted and told this so many times it's untrue. Some of their edit summaries show how clearly that they're WP:NOTHERE to do anything other than disparage Ping Fu.

• [34] - edit summary that is clearly a personal attack on Fu, as is the edit. Was a reinstatement of [35].
• [36][37] - inappropriately placed links that have nothing to do with the article (I haven't evaluated any of the links, but that's because they're irrelevant to the article at present)
• [38] - using article space as a talk page, with a personal attack against Fu again
• [39][40] - adding hate site link in (plus inappropriate comment for an article in the latter)
• [41] - the original "expansion" of the Bend, Not Break article - one big attack page.

One look at this user's contributions shows one sole edit outside the talk or article space of these two: and that edit was solely about Bend, Not Break on a user's talk page. This user needs indeffing under WP:NOTHERE, and the nature of the anti-Fu brigade means it may be worth running a CheckUser as well (although a lot of accounts may be stale by now). I'm sick to death of having to police this article against the constant weasel words and WP:NPOV-violating edits by the anti-Fu brigade. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 16:55, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

• Unsurprisingly, they've yet again tried to push that comment [42] - this time accusing me of a COI! The sooner we're rid of this user the better, I think. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 17:17, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

• I just sent a request for suppression to Oversight. I also included a link to this ANI. Fearofreprisal (talk) 17:30, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

• They've also used their IP at times to circumvent suspicion: [43] is IDENTICAL to the COI accusation/personal attack I just removed from the talk of Bend, Don't Break: [44]. So they're clearly socking as well (that IP has been used previously by them). Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 17:48, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

• Reversion of my removal of their attack: [45]. Can someone block them soon? This is getting very frustrating! Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 17:52, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

User:Malleus_Fatuorum has a vendetta against editors who use tags

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Can someone please reaffirm that tagging is a legitimate way of bringing attention to a problem that you are unable or uncomfortable fixing yourself? A thread at the village pump has devolved (on his side) to a series of personal attacks, that really crosses the line IMO. After a certain point, nearly every message from Malleus includes a personal attack or some form of hostility. Here they are in order:

• [46]: Editors who use tags are lazy and incompetent
• [47]: Edit summary calls tags "defacement", and taggers are lazy
• [48]: Calling me incompetent some inspired condescension: "Your suggested approach is rather like scribbling on the pages of a textbook you can't understand, rather asking the author (or your teacher) to explain."
• [49]: Using tags is "spray tagging grafifit"
• [50]: Calling me "inexperienced" (My first edit was 5 years ago)
• [51]: Tagging is "complaining" and I haven't learned anything in 3 years.
• [52]: Accusing me of sock puppetry
• [53]: Dismissing contributions by "taggers"

I feel like I'm being flamed in a halo forum or something. I think he needs to understand that this sort of behavior is not acceptable. PraetorianFury (talk) 17:43, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

User notified here. PraetorianFury (talk) 17:45, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Really? Not seeing much of what I'd consider personal attacks there. I do see some other interesting behavior there, but nothing that I'd consider an actual personal attack. More like two people with strong points of view. Intothatdarkness 17:54, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

A Village Pump thread that was more heat than light begets an ANI thread that will be more heat than light. And so the cycle continues. —Tom Morris (talk) 18:00, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

These are more "impersonal attacks" than anything. They're certainly even less useful than Malleus claims the tags themselves are. Malleus also ought to know better, and as honorary holder of the Peter Damian chair of Wisest Person on WP, I wish he'd use some of that infamous wisdom a bit more positively. Don't take it personally (Malleus is an equal opportunity critic), but nothing is going to come of this on either side. Andy Dingley (talk) 18:09, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Why is this being brought up here? Just stop creating tags and instead voice your concern in a talk page; that's what they're for! Problem solved, can we close this one now? Dusty|💬|You can help! 18:31, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Disagree on your first point. Tags are perfectly legitimate tools in article maintenance, and none of the diffs provided in the OP contains any reasonable objection against them. Still, I don't see what the purpose of this ANI thread is for either. One editor is against tags. So what? That is his problem, and any actions taken in the future based on that personal opinion against Wikipedia policy surely will result in approbriate sanctions. --Saddhiyama (talk) 18:48, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict) You need to read more closely. I'm objecting specifically to PraetorianFury's proposal to move the {{deadlink}} template into the body of the text, as opposed to where it is now, next to the citation. Malleus Fatuorum 18:58, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

I want to establish that comments that, for example, call users a transexual teenager in Sudan are completely inappropriate. So I guess a comment from an admin on his talk page with the hope of improving his future behavior. Wikipedia sanctions are preventative after all. But it seems the community's sanity is overwhelmed by their outrage at having a few inline citations in their articles. PraetorianFury (talk) 18:56, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

You don't even seem to understand what an inline citation actually is. Malleus Fatuorum 19:01, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

And let's be very clear about this. I haven't called anyone a "transexual teenager from Sudan", and neither has anyone else. Malleus Fatuorum 19:03, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

I stated that it's better to just state a problem at ANI, and let somebody else propose to give an ultimatum to Malleus or call for blocking him. I apologize for my having suggested that an editor wanting to cause trouble for MF create another (even more sympathetic) sock account..., but since it has been referred to I cannot remove it.... Kiefer.Wolfowitz 19:30, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

"Cause trouble for MF" ? Is he your boss or something? Are you allies, promising to attack eachother's enemies? Have we devolved on Wikipedia to the point of tribalism? PraetorianFury (talk) 19:35, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Have I stumbled on some grand conspiracy in Wikipedia? So now we're going to say that calling users incompetent and lazy is not a personal attack? Am I the last sane person alive here? Suddenly the well precedented practice of tagging problems that cannot be immediately fixed is some grave insult against the page's "owner" ? No, I'm not going to take issues to the talk page where they can be ignored, while our readers continue to be misled. Problems should be identified immediately and publicly so that users are appropriately skeptical of information. Why am I the only person who values honesty? Why is everyone more concerned with looking right than being right? I can't believe this. I thought Wikipedia editors were better than this. It seems that misinformation we spread is not due to unintentional neglect but deliberate obfuscation. PraetorianFury (talk) 18:45, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Two things here: the linked comment (regarding the teenager in Sudan) was not made by Malleus Fatuorum. Number two - so if we don't agree with your position we're members of a grand conspiracy? Fascinating. Intothatdarkness 19:03, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

If you're so determined to discourage the use of tags that you'll take the ludicrous position that calling users incompetent is not a personal attack, there must be some ulterior motive. PraetorianFury (talk) 19:13, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

No ulterior motive, actually. Just saying that I saw nothing in that linked thread that was more personal or incendiary than any normal research faculty meeting. In fact, it was far more civil than some of those meetings can be. People not agreeing with you (here I mean your statement that there were personal attacks in that linked discussion) does not automatically make them part of a conspiracy. In fact, some might consider your accusations of conspiracy and ludicrous positions to be personal attacks. I'm not one of them, but am simply pointing out a flaw in your position. Intothatdarkness 19:20, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

You're trolling so hard it would be funny if you weren't harming the encyclopedia in the process. I think 4chan or reddit would be a more appropriate forum for your hobby. I won't be responding to your messages anymore until I see one that isn't clearly a joke. PraetorianFury (talk) 19:27, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Now that's just funny. And I think it puts a nice closing point on the value of this complaint. Intothatdarkness 19:29, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

PraetorianFury has been editing since January, but is the latest in a long line of sophisticated ingénues. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 19:34, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Such a thorough investigation that ignores editing by IP and under another account. PraetorianFury (talk) 19:36, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

• Re "Am I the last sane person alive here?": no. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 19:15, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

The way to actually address a problem with an article is to edit the article, not to put a random tag on it. In practice, almost all maintenance tags are ignored. Moreover, the large number of tags placed for trivial issues obscures the smaller number of serious issues that ought to be brought to editors' attention. Because maintenance tags are of such extremely limited practical value, it is unfortunate that we encourage well-meaning editors to go through adding them to articles. The more clearly that message can be passed along, the better. — Carl (CBM · talk) 19:38, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

There are two purposes to a tag, the first is to elicit a fix from editors watching the article. The second is the reason the tags are public, and that is to warn users to be more suspicious and skeptical of the tagged material. In low traffic articles, no one is watching. We can expect that problems mentioned on the talk page will never be addressed. Editors responsible for their creation might no longer be editing. Tags are an invitation for browsers, particularly experts who stumble upon them, to fix them. I'm not saying tags are the first or best option. My problem solving starts with a good faith attempt to fix the problem. But there are times when I want to preserve content, but do not believe it should be consumed by our readers without skepticism. If I can't fix it myself, I tag it, for our readers and for the next editor months or years in the future. It's great that you think every article has an army of editors waiting to pounce on every problem that might be mentioned, but this is not the case. There are millions of articles and only a few thousand editors, maybe less if you only consider "very active" editors. Low traffic articles are read but not maintained or supervised. More people read the article than the talk page. A problem that is identified publicly is more likely to be fixed.

Additionally, I'm not talking about putting a driveby NPOV tag on an entire section. Specifically, contentious material sourced to dead links, or controversial subjects far low down in the "tree" on a particular subject. These will often be edited by one editor, and with no oversight, they are free to insert their POV as strongly as they desire. Similarly, browsers like me who choose to edit it, will have no resistance but also no help. I do read things on which I am not an expert, for fun. I can't tell you why Pope Martin IV excommunicated Michael VIII in the 13th century, but that doesn't mean that I can't identify poorly phrased/ambiguous sentences, or see when an IP has insert their own original research. I fix it when I can, but when I'm unsure, I tag it for the next browser, and for our users. Does this make me a villain? Acknowledging the limitations of our thinly stretched userbase? There is a purpose to tags, as contentious as the battles as you've had must have been. On the fringes of Wikipedia, it's the only protection users have against potentially misleading information. You do not get to close this issue with a recommendation to deny that to them. PraetorianFury (talk) 19:56, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I request that I be blocked.

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I refuse to be treated like crap. Can someone please block me? I do not wish to participate in this project any more. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 18:05, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Then don't participate, you don't need to be blocked for that. Malleus Fatuorum 18:09, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

If you're serious about wanting to be blocked, you need to apply to an administrator willing to consider placing self-requested blocks. Bishonen | talk 18:12, 26 March 2013 (UTC).

Strong oppose per WP:HORSE. Partial funding for this event has been provided by the WikiMedia Foundation. Please send all additional donations to the Arbitration Committee. Vegan foie gras and sashimi gratefully accepted. No flowers by request. Mathsci (talk) 18:20, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:WikiProject User scripts/Scripts/WikiBreak Enforcer. Ryan Vesey 18:25, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Oppose, as retirement is the best route for that. There's no drama to it. GoodDay (talk) 18:26, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Opposed. I don't think we should block an editor except when a) there's due cause, or b) we've completed the encyclopedia.Dusty|💬|You can help! 18:33, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

The spirit is willing, but the bit is weak. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 19:41, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

• Have a break, come back in a few hours/days - or not at all if that is how you feel. No need to block just because a thread you began didn't go your way. GiantSnowman 19:47, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
• Treated like crap? And to think somebody accused you earlier of creating drama. Take some time off, think about what others have said to you and then come back if you want to and can act in a more mature manner. Good luck. --Malerooster (talk) 20:06, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose. Editor deserves a barnstar for standing up for himself, not a block. Viriditas (talk) 20:11, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

  "To be a man means sticking up for yourself". "No child, being a man means doing what is right." Kiefer.Wolfowitz 20:17, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose Just stop coming to Wikipedia if you don't wish to participate anymore. --Jayron32 20:18, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Disruptive editing continues on List of Adventure Time characters

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I brought this up last week, but it seems to have gotten swept under the rug. In short, User 321Wikiman keeps adding information to the article with a bogus source. Talking/leaving a message on his page has done no good, and he continues to do it. Please help.--Gen. Quon (Talk) 19:17, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Well, 321Wikiman shouldn't be edit warning and almost violating the three-revert rule for starters. In fact, the bold, revert, discuss essay should probably be followed here. TBrandley 20:44, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

I've notified the editor in question again. TBrandley 20:45, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Delivered a {{uw-vand4}} notice to the user and made it explicitly clear what the next step will be if the user doesn't conform to BRD. Hasteur (talk) 21:05, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

IP Complaint

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I spotted newbie/IP Complaining about dead links. Can we get‎ Sandstein to block him? Tommy Pinball (talk) 21:47, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Disruptive activity from IP range at Vevo article

An editor active over the 208.54 IP range, mainly 208.54.36, has been repeatedly edit-warring in this tendentious unsourced change. The IP has said this is being done for the purpose of using Wikipedia as a soapbox against Vevo and attacked one of the editors removing it during the talk page discussion while refusing to back up the material with reliable sources. Article was already semi-protected for three days and IP has been warned about the edit-warring, yet continues to revert. Given that the disruptive activity from the IP-hopping editor extends to the talk page I think semi-protection and an anon-only range block are necessary.--The Devil's Advocate _{tlk. cntrb.} 23:16, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

The main IPs at issue are 208.54.36.151 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) and 208.54.36.149 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) (the 151 IP having already been blocked for 31 hours due to repeated blanking of an editor's user page), but the disruptive editing appears to have also originated from 208.54.32.229, 208.54.32.189, 208.54.36.183, and 208.54.36.150.--The Devil's Advocate _{tlk. cntrb.} 23:27, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

I have semi-protected the article for one week. You can also request protection at WP:RFPP in the future. Normally talk pages are not protected except in extreme cases, which this is not. -- Dianna (talk) 00:18, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

Protection is one thing, but the editor on this IP range is another part of the problem. This individual is just taking the issue to another article.--The Devil's Advocate _{tlk. cntrb.} 03:05, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

I will see if a range block is possible and will get back to you shortly. -- Dianna (talk) 03:17, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

The edits are coming from a tight range but there's other people doing good edits from the range. It's mostly vandalism though, so I will do a 3-day range block on 208.54.36.128/26. -- Dianna (talk) 03:29, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

User:142.179.233.65 persistant vandalism

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User keeps vandalizing articles by the insertion of factual errors and persists despite warnings.

Deliberate insertion of factual errors at Lac La Biche, Alberta:

• 1 by 172.219.165.61, sock of 142.179.233.65
• 2 by 108.181.44.47, suspected sock of 142.179.233.65
• 3 by same IP above
• 4 by 142.179.233.65
• 5 by 142.179.233.65
• 6 by 142.179.233.65
• 7 by 142.179.233.65 (third in 24 hours, I've withheld reverting per WP:3RR)

Warning diffs re: vandalism at Lac La Biche, Alberta:

• after #1 above level 1 with sock, Feb-3/13
• after #4 above level 2, Feb-23/13
• after #5 above level 3, Mar-26/13
• after #6 above level 4, Mar-26/13

Three warnings from others re: other articles between level 2 and level 3 warnings above:

• [54]

Contribution comparisons of subject editor and other IPs:

• 142.179.233.65
• 172.219.165.61
• 108.181.44.47

Bottom line is user has been unresponsive to warnings placed on talk page in terms of actions or discussion. Hwy43 (talk) 02:21, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

I reopened Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/142.179.233.65.--Scaldjosh (talk) 02:51, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

One IP geolocates to Edm, and one to Ft Mc Murray. It could be the same guy, someone who works in the oilpatch and commutes. A sockpuppet report will not tell us any more than we already know. The best way to stop the problem is with some page protection. I will protect the article for a week to start and will watch-list the article. -- Dianna (talk) 02:58, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

I have decided to block 142.179.233.65 as well, because they were introducing factual errors into other articles as well, such as Mötley Crüe. The other two IPs do not have any recent edits. -- Dianna (talk) 03:16, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

WP:HOUNDING/WP:POINT edits by User:GabeMc

GabeMc (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Since 1:00 UTC 27 March, GabeMc has done the following:

• Nominated Post-presidency of Bill Clinton for deletion (Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Post-presidency of Bill Clinton)
• Nominated KOXY for deletion (Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/KOXY) ‎
• Nominated Crab puff for deletion (Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Crab puff) ‎
• Nominated Chili burger for merger
• Placed tags of various kinds at List of Crayola colored pencil colors, Walter Moore, Iowa Stars, Charles Amadon Moody, Jacob Zeitlin, the sporting-man culture, the 1909 Inter-Mountain League, the Pacific Electric Watts line, Leading U.S. Advertisers, Dar Tucker, and the Dali painting “The Elephants”

All of those pages are pages I created or significantly edited, as if GabeMc had gone to my “articles created” list, clicked on each one, and did the worst he could to it. There’s nothing else these articles have in common; they range from a baseball league to a bookseller to food to an on-campus radio station. This is a pretty clear example of WikiHounding and WP:POINT editing, to say nothing of “drive-by tagging”, a highly frowned-upon process, and the inaccuracy of several of the tags. User:Yaksar warned him about making a point and WikiHounding, but GabeMc reverted it as vandalism. I noticed this pattern partly from the three AfD notices on my page and partly from edits in my watchlist. Can I get some help here, please? pbp 05:54, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

• Wikihounding means you just follow someone's edits around to harass them whenever you think you can get away with it. It does not include someone nominating stubs you created then abandoned years ago. KOXY was created by you in 16:24, 22 August 2010‎ and is still a one sentence stub. And Crab puff is two sentences you created, with no references at all. Things like this [55] should be tagged for original research, that's what it looks like to me, since you have no references at all. This one [56] is properly tagged by him for being unreferenced and possibly original research. Dream Focus 06:14, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
  • No, that's inaccurate. This is pretty clearly WikiHounding. There's no rhyme or reason to GabeMc's edits except that they share a common creator: me. For two hours, GabeMc did nothing but tag articles I created. That is diruptive WikiHounding and he should be blocked for it pbp 06:23, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

This is pretty clearly a pattern of poor article creation. It is not wikihounding if an editor notices a pattern of problematic editing and then goes through someone's contributions to find and act on other examples of problematic editing. I had a look at your contributions for new articles (here), and GabeMc certainly could (and perhaps should) have gone further.

Separately, diff, would you like to show me where it says that I've been banned or prevented from editing in any way? Otherwise, it's just an attempt on your part to bring an ally into this discussion. Classy. ˜danjel [ talk | contribs ] 06:42, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

For someone so active at AfD, particularly in badgering of keep !votes with which you disagree, you're very defensive about articles that you yourself create. A clear case of WP:OWN. It'd probably help if the articles you create weren't so pathetically low quality, like Crab puff. Your usual strategy of wikidramamongering (here, and in your keep votes at the AfD's) isn't a good reason to retain those articles. ˜danjel [ talk | contribs ] 06:21, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

• I'll just point out here that being a stub, no matter how long it's been a stub, is not a valid reason to delete. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 06:32, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
• This nom (now speedy closed) appears wrong, maybe pointy, about the rest, as you are a quite experienced user, if you don't want your articles nominated for deletion (or tagged as unreferenced/ OR) it would be wise to add a couple of references as evidences of notability (and in accordance with WP:verifiability). Here you should thank The Bushranger for doing the work you had to do before moving this stub in the mainspace, here frankly I don't see any trace of notability or chance to kept the article. About the tags, all them appear correct. I don't see any action required here. Cavarrone (talk) 07:24, 27 March 2013 (UTC)