User talk:North8000: Difference between revisions

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Motion at Amendment request: North8000

A motion was posted on 21 August regarding the amendment request. It can be viewed at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification and Amendment#North8000 restrictions: Motion. You may have already seen this and apologies for the belated notice on my part. For the Arbitration Committee, Dreamy Jazz ^{talk to me | my contributions} 12:28, 23 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Dreamy Jazz: Thanks! North8000 (talk) 13:29, 23 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Amendment request: North8000 motion enacted and amendment request archived

The motion North8000 restrictions: Motion has been enacted and the amendment request has been archived to Wikipedia talk:Arbitration/Requests#Amendment request: North8000. The enacted motion is as follows:

North8000 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) was restricted by motion in December 2016 (Motion regarding North80000). Recognizing North8000's productive contributions and renewed voluntary commitments, the restrictions are suspended for one year, during which time the restrictions may be re-imposed (individually or entirely) upon request to WP:ARCA if warranted. Any restrictions not reimposed will automatically expire at the end of the one year period.

For the Arbitration Committee, Dreamy Jazz ^{talk to me | my contributions} 21:06, 26 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Discuss this at: Wikipedia talk:Arbitration Committee/Noticeboard#Arbitration motion regarding North8000

@Dreamy Jazz: Thanks for the heads up! Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 01:07, 27 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Done. North8000 (talk) 15:33, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 13:07, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

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Help with writing an article split

Hi there, you recently made an edit at the Ely, Minnesota article and I am wondering if you would be interested in helping me out with that page. I have not lived in Minnesota for years but I continue to have a very strong connection to the state. I had worked on the Ely article and added a considerable amount of copy some years ago and recently read a news article that mentioned the current copper-nickle mining controversy that is presently going on in Minnesota. I also do a great deal of editing on the environment, for example I am the leading editor of Environmental policy of the Donald Trump administration (and I also added it to that article), so that sparked my interest. Anyway, after reading the article I thought that I'd just add a few words to update the history section. As I read more and more about the plans to introduce copper-nickle mining I found that the conglomerate that plans to open the Ely mine also have questionable ties to Trump and his presidency. So that added to my interest as well because I have concerns about corporate ownership of our country. I'd like to get more into that aspect but the section I've added is already too long and anything more is out of the question. I would like to split that section off while leaving a substantial but much smaller overview at the article. Also, the split would be very good for both the Trump and the BWCA articles and perhaps several other MN Iron Range articles as well. I've never written an article but I am wondering if you might do that, if you have the interest of course. Hope I am not being too wordy here but this subject is very important to me. Thanks for your time. Gandydancer (talk) 18:42, 4 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hello @Gandydancer: I love working with folks on articles, and am overall probably the most active editor on "northwoods" articles so the answer is almost certainly "yes". But I don't understand what new article you have in mind. Could you clarify? Thanks.

BTW Patagonia made a cool short film about combined BWCA and the mine https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZR_69AnAg1Y&t=47s

Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 19:19, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

Lovely, lovely, lovely film. I am speaking of the new addition I made to the Ely article which discusses the proposed copper mine which is only a few miles from Ely and just adjacent to the BWCA. Gandydancer (talk) 19:46, 4 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

So you mean an article on the proposed mine (and the related processes, actions and controversy)? Sounds like an article that should exist if it doesn't already. Fist step would be to find a couple of sources/articles that cover it in depth. This will confirm wp:notability and also provide a sources for some material to start with. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 19:59, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

The NYT has this: [1] The Mpls Star Trib has this (an editorial but it is the Trib's position): [2] There may be more that I have already used in the article--I will check. Gandydancer (talk) 20:18, 4 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

OK, just clarifying, you are thinking about doing it on the Twin Metals mine specifically? FYI, for editors who are newer at it, the safest route is to get the article somewhat fully built as a draft somewhere, then submit it at wp:AFC and get it blessed and them move it into article space. Being more experienced and less patient, I'm thinking that we'll work on it briefly in a draft space to the point of deciding on a title and having enough sourcing in there to confirm wp:notability and then move it into article space to build it there. I'll start a draft space (including a talk page) right away so that, after it's moved our discussions will be with the article history rather than in my talk page history. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 20:35, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

OK,

Here's the draft space for the article: User:North8000/TwinMetalsDraft
Here's the talk page for it, let's move our conversation over there User_talk:North8000/TwinMetalsDraft

Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 20:43, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

Thanks. Yes, I believe that it would be best to just stick with the Ely mine rather than to include the Iron Range proposals. I would appreciate as much help as possible as my health has been very poor, plus I have a new computer that is almost driving me crazy. I'm surprised that I was able to do as much as I did at the Ely article. Here is one more site from PBS: [3] I'll move over to the new site now. Gandydancer (talk) 21:03, 4 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Uh oh, maybe

I think I may have edit conflicted with you at WP:RSN = HuffPo...will you take a look? If I did, my sincerest apologies. ^Atsme _Talk 📧 17:49, 8 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks @Atsme:That was weird....it took my edit and it's in the edit history but it disappeared. I reentered. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 18:05, 8 September 2020 (UTC)

The new edit conflict fixer-upper usually keeps both edits and gives you the option of putting one before the other, or vice versa. I thought I was adding mine after yours but instead, it deleted yours.

Thank you for the fix. ^Atsme _Talk 📧 18:07, 8 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment

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done North8000 (talk) 12:46, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

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Done. North8000 (talk) 12:30, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

ONUS

Hello, thank you for your comments at the RfC proposal section at (however we abbreviate the talk page for WP:V). I don't want to talk to everyone simultaneously or dominate the discussion more, so maybe I could hear your thoughts here before distilling some comments onto the page? I have a lot of questions to work out but I'm not sure how much you want to get into this. Thanks in advance for whatever you'd like to discuss. (I should note that I'm not sure if I understand the middle part of your comment.)

By your interpretation of ONUS, "", does that simply mean that an editor must provide a reason other than V to include challenged text, just as an editor must provide a reason other than "I don't like it" to remove the text? I think that does make sense as the original intention of the policy, especially if the first sentence of the policy is meant to be the defining text. (I just found this essay which speaks to part of the ONUS discussion: Wikipedia:Don't revert due solely to "no consensus".) I'm under the impression that the onus policy has been used in a way that is also related to WP:CONSENSUS, which makes sense to me because of the last two sentences. Maybe the policy should be split between WP:V and WP:CONSENSUS?

The second two sentences are where the confusion seems to lie. It sounds like the two sentences are in reverse order, if it's meant to say that if the editor who wishes to add text fails to achieve consensus then the consensus is to omit the text. Then we get into the question of ONUS and removal....and what the CONSENSUS piece of ONUS actually looks like in practice.

So, another question is, regardless of how ONUS is interpreted, what policy do we want? Do we want to say that once a change to consensus is clearly contentious the status quo ante version should be in place pending discussion, which would function as a sort of a trigger for WP:Consensus Required? Although based on the discussion at Talk WP:V I would expect that proposal to be strongly opposed, and it may not be possible to answer these questions without also addressing their concerns by determining whether a status quo version without clear consensus should remain in place pending discussion over contentious changes. Kolya Butternut (talk) 02:43, 22 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the post. BTW I'll be off the grid Sept 26th - Oct 4th. My post was somewhat abstract and wandering and so I think easily misread. For me your post covers a lot of big topics.....I'll just says some things and see where we go from there. Long story short, on the immediate question at hand my opinion is to leave it as is. If I could mess with the big picture it would be:

Add to wp:ver: "Meeting wp:verifiability is a requirement for inclusion, not a reason for inclusion". This is actually a summary of what wp:does and doesn't say, but too many people think the opposite. One thing that this would say would be that one could not used that the material is sourced as an argument for inclusion.
Create a new guideline or widely quoted essay that describes how inclusion / exclusion decision are made. Where policy does not clearly dictate the anser, it's based on a decision which is based on many factors combined.
Add somewhere: "when making inclusion/exclusion decisions, give the status quo a little extra sway, and when doing so, also consider strength or weakness of it's position as the status quo"

Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 10:58, 22 September 2020 (UTC)

So we're discussing what WP:ONUS means, but what does WP:CONSENSUS mean? I think using the words status quo is confusing here because QUO is a separate concept, so I'll say "previous consensus". The previous consensus only gets more sway in my opinion because presumably the editors who wrote the consensus text or who read the text and agreed with it, are not participating in the local discussion over changing the text. That's why CONSENSUS states that when there is no consensus for a change the previous consensus will remain. The "sway" is already written into policy.

Does it also seem to you that the last two sentences of ONUS have been often interpreted by editors as an extension of CONSENSUS? [[User:|Kolya Butternut]] (talk) 14:41, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Kolya Butternut: In my view this touches on lot of different fundamental areas which would take a book length post to answer :-) and where I've already given my 30,000' view. But briefly, wp:consensus is the closest thing to a real roadmap for discussions. Even it does not talk about giving the status quo a tiny bit of weight in discussions, but one level up it does so in the roadmap for when consensus is or isn't reached and the "presumed consensus" concept. In my view wp:onus should be deleted. It's only there as a band-aid because we've failed to put the badly-needed sentence "WP:verifiability is a requirement for inclusion, not a reason for inclusion" into wp:ver. The topic doesn't belong in wp:ver and what is there doesn't cover the topic. IMO the only reason wp:onus it is heavily used instead of wp:consensus which covers it better is because it's in a more prominent policy, and because it is short and because it has a convenient handle "Onus" unofficially attached. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 10:41, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, just remove the "WP:ONUS" shortcut, leave "WP:VNOTSUFF", perhaps add "WP:VNOTGUARANTEE" or "WP:VNOTENOUGH". The concept of ONUS seems to be essential, so I think we should move the handle "WP:ONUS" to WP:CONSENSUS. Kolya Butternut (talk) 11:36, 24 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Just wanted to make sure you saw my last comment at WT:V. The page is getting confusing. Kolya Butternut (talk) 03:57, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hello @Kolya Butternut: I'm assuming that you meant the Oct 25th post. I did read it twice, but that's as far as I got. To really understand it would need a lot of reading/analysis at the referenced policies/guidelines which I frankly didn't do. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 13:25, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

I'm confused; I thought you felt my proposal was a baby-step you agreed with? Kolya Butternut (talk) 13:45, 1 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Kolya Butternut:Yes I would have supported that. But your proposal included a huge second proposal: "new section at WP:CONSENSUS § Achieving consensus#Onus to clearly define Onus as applying to new additions, removals, and modifications?" Which makes it mal-formed (two proposals in one). Also the second proposal is a huge and vaguely defined one.North8000 (talk) 13:57, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

I felt that it belonged under the Achieving consensus section rather than just adding the wikilink to No consensus, if that's what you agreed to as the baby step. I also guess I missed that we didn't agree that there was a lack of clarity about the onus policy. You mentioned that you felt it would take several steps to create a new section under Consensus, what sorts of steps would those be? Kolya Butternut (talk) 14:08, 1 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Kolya Butternut: We agree there was a lack of clarity about the onus policy, although (as a sidebar) not that it is significant problem. That does not translate into your particular approach of your RFC. Regarding the several steps, they would be:

Replace the current wp:onus at wp:ver with "verifiability is a requirement for inclusion, not a reason for inclusion." Move the rest of that section to wp:consensus. Change the target of wp:onus to that moved text
That move will make the conflict/ ambiguity more obvious. Resolve that by modifying wp:consensus per the result of a discussion there.

The above steps could be combined or further subdivided. I respect and thank you for your efforts. Respectfully, I don't think that your current approach (which is the standard Wikipedia one, so this is not a critique) is going to get you anywhere (which is also standard for Wikipedia) and is just wearing people out. My suggestion is to develop a specific idea which 2-3 people will get behind as proponents and then float and support that idea. North8000 (talk) 20:52, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

Yes, ideally a few people could come up with a specific proposal, but I didn't see that happening. The RfC is ironic -- on the one hand people are saying there's no problem so there's no need for a change, and yet there's clearly a disagreement about the interpretation of the policy which suggests that there is a need for a change. Kolya Butternut (talk) 21:04, 1 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Kolya Butternut: I think that the "no problem" people are essentially saying that the fuzzy Wikipedia system mostly makes it work. BTW my idea was a suggestion for you if you chose to pursue this further. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 14:53, 2 November 2020 (UTC)

Feedback request: Biographies request for comment

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Done. North8000 (talk) 23:15, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

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done North8000 (talk) 23:27, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

Your advice on an AfC submission

Hi. Please take a look at Draft:Terje G. Simonsen. It is a properly stated WP:COI contribution about a Norwegian non-fiction author. The article is a translation of a Norwegian Wikipedia article with a bit more sources. The author is a historian and writes about the history of paranormal. Considering your great experience of editing Wikipedia and also the fact that you contributed to Jeffrey Mishlove, I guess that you have a balanced view on the subject and can give me a good and professional advice. Please tell how this article could/should be edited or changed in order to improve the chances of passing an AfC review. Thanks! Peter. --Bbarmadillo (talk) 17:18, 24 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Bbarmadillo: Happy to. It looks like it was already accepted both for afc and npp. It looks like an excellent job on the article based on the available sources. If you wanted to take it to the "next level" regarding article quality and being doublysafe on wp:notability I search for 1-2 more sources that wrote about him and incorporate that material into the article. Nice work! North8000 (talk) 02:19, 25 October 2020 (UTC)

Thank you! --Bbarmadillo (talk) 06:59, 25 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Done North8000 (talk) 20:15, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

Feedback request: Wikipedia policies and guidelines request for comment

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Done. North8000 (talk) 04:54, 5 November 2020 (UTC)

Merry Christmas

File:Christmas tree in field.jpg	Merry Christmas North8000
	Hi North8000, I wish you and your family a very Merry Christmas and a very happy and prosperous New Year, Thanks for all your contributions to Wikipedia this past year, like this tree, you are a light shining in the darkness. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 12:07, 22 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Onel5969: Thanks for the Christmas wishes, I wish you a great 2021! Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 23:59, 1 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Feedback requests from the Feedback Request Service

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Closing edit requests

Please be sure to close edit requests that you grant. Gentle reminder to use the |answered=yes parameter in the request template. That removes the request from the Wikipedia semi-protected edit requests category. Thank you very much for your help with edit requests! P.I. Ellsworth ed. ^put'r there 20:11, 28 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Paine Ellsworth: Thanks! North8000 (talk) 20:15, 28 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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Done. North8000 (talk) 14:14, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

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done. North8000 (talk) 14:31, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 14:39, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

Feedback request: Biographies request for comment

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Done North8000 (talk) 14:49, 4 February 2021 (UTC)

Happy Valentines! Some sweet strawberries for you!

You get the Dependability Award! Thank you for being the kind of editor that other editors like me have come to rely on, knowing they can depend on you for help and guidance! Huggums537 (talk) 22:50, 14 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Huggums537: Thanks! North8000 (talk) 02:12, 15 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

notability guideline issue about Sadat Hossain Article

I wrote a article named Sadat Hossain. Then there is two discussion (1st Discussion and 2nd Discussion).The result of both discussion is keep. But for the 3rd time it is flagged as not notable. But as per WP:CREATIVE and WP:AUTHOR rules it meets the criteria. The references are from prominent Bangladeshi & Indian bengali and english newspapers. I want to permanently dissolve this issue. Jubair Sayeed Linas (talk) 20:25, 16 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Jubair Sayeed Linas: Happy to take a peek. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 22:10, 16 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Jubair Sayeed Linas: Long story short, you have a pretty strong case for this article, doubly so from a person who took it to AFD before. But before I try to help I'd like to know whether it is a strong vs. doubly strong case. If it has like 2 GNG-suitable sources it would be doubly strong. I think that it would take me hours (which I frankly don't have) to read and understand the sources. I took a look and immediately ran into things that I would need to figure out such as sources centric on names other than Sadat Hossain. Could you help out by picking and pointing out to me the top 2 or three sources regarding GNG. So that would be published sources that cover him in depth. Sincerely,, North8000 (talk) 22:51, 16 February 2021 (UTC)

@North8000: As you can see the reference link leading and prominent english newspaper like The Daily Star (Bangladesh), The Daily Observer (Bangladesh), Dhaka Tribune and bengali newspaper Prothom Alo, Bangladesh Pratidin, Manab Zamin, online portal Banglanews24.com, Bangla Tribune, NTV (Bangladeshi TV channel) and Indian Ei Samay Sangbadpatra, Kolkata TV has stories about him. You can search through the bengali by সাদাত হোসাইন which is the bengali form of Sadat Hossain. I recommend you to look up ref 1, ref 2, ref 3, ref 4 ref 5 You can also find him on [Worldcat]. Jubair Sayeed Linas (talk) 23:38, 17 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hello @Jubair Sayeed Linas:. That's about 2 hours of work and would need to wait until I have that much time to spare. My previous request which was: "Could you help out by picking and pointing out to me the top 2 or three sources regarding GNG. So that would be published sources that cover him in depth." was to reduce the amount of time required and I'd work on the situation right away. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 17:36, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

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February 2020

Hello, I'm Dlthewave. I noticed that you added or changed content in an article, PragerU, but you didn't provide a reliable source. It's been removed and archived in the page history for now, but if you'd like to include a citation and re-add it, please do so. You can have a look at the tutorial on citing sources. If you think I made a mistake, you can leave me a message on my talk page. (Regarding this edit, which restored the unsourced text "historical narrative.) –dlthewave ☎ 22:32, 26 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

dlthewave, why would you post something like that? It's a very condescending thing to say to an editor who has been around Wikipedia for almost a decade more than you have and who restoring the status quo text given we are at a noconsensus state in the talk page discussion. Springee (talk) 22:53, 26 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Dlthewave: You have it backwards. I removed unsourced new material. Your post here even mis-represents the reason given for the reversion of my revert, they asserted that it was because there was no consensus to remove the unsourced un-consensused new material! North8000 (talk) 23:19, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

Yes, I understand that you believe the new material to be unsourced and lacking consensus. I explained why I disagree with that on the talk page. However, you are responsible for your own edit which added the words "historical narrative". Where is the source that supports that? WP:ONUS is on editors who add or restore unsourced content. –dlthewave ☎ 23:27, 26 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

"Narrative" merely means that such a statement or assertion by somebody exists, which it clearly does, and such is already sourced. and that is the stable version. You are defending the substitution of a much farther reaching version of that statement which was inserted on February 26th. And there is no "I believe" regarding no consensus, such obviously did not occur. If you still wish to persist with the "I believe" insinuation, please point to where that consensus occurred. North8000 (talk) 01:40, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

@Dlthewave: I took issue in several ways with the approach that you you took above and responded accordingly. That said, I'm ready to just move on and wish you the best and thank you for your Wikipedia work. At the article my desire is to try to be helpful and then not worry about what the final result is. Combine that with I think progress being made there and I'm not overly concerned about what happens next.North8000 (talk) 04:59, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

McKinsey & Company

Hi @North8000: those entries are entirely unsuitable for the lede. They are completely WP:NPOV. I had a chat with the editor on it already. scope_creep^Talk 15:57, 5 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @North8000: You could perhaps do with getting this stuff archived. It is quite hard to write this entry. scope_creep^Talk 15:59, 5 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hello @Scope creep: My edit summary pretty much gave my take on it....the one revert deleted about 20 edits which looks like they contained some good info and sourcing and I felt the 20 edits should get a closer look rather than mass reverted. Maybe add to that some concern that concern about possible coi might have made folks go a bit overboard there. (yes, concern about concern :-)) That closer/ targeted look is still my recommendation but I just wanted to try to help a bit and beyond that am not really concerned about the outcome. Thanks for your efforts and work. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 20:15, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Feedback requests from the Feedback Request Service

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done North8000 (talk) 11:59, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

Help w Soles4Souls page

Hi North8000. I wanted to see if you had a minute to look at Talk:Soles4Souls under “Requested changes“ or, if not, if you knew of any editors interested in pages about non-profits I could reach out to. Jamiemellis (talk) 16:01, 26 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, I'd be happy to.North8000 (talk) 16:11, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

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DoneNorth8000 (talk) 13:58, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 14:30, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

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done. North8000 (talk) 21:03, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 18:40, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

Scouting WikiProject

		Merit Badge Sash Award
		Thank you for your dedication to Scouting! --evrik ^(talk) 20:24, 26 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! North8000 (talk) 20:59, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

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Done. North8000 (talk) 18:38, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

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done North8000 (talk) 17:20, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

Greetings!

Please share your views on Talk:Elizabeth II#Head of the Commonwealth, as you did at the talk page of George VI. Thank you! Peter Ormond (talk) 00:09, 15 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Peter Ormond:Thanks for the invite. Done. North8000 (talk) 17:25, 16 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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Done North8000 (talk) 17:31, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

Request for peer review help

Hi North8000. I hope you are doing well and staying safe during these times! Apologize to bother and posting a random request. I have just started to work on a stub (Fontainea Venosa)and had added some sections. Knowing your expertise, I would love if you can help me to review and left a comment on what I can do to improve my edits. I hope that this is okay, but no pressure if you are busy. That is completely fine and understandable :) Hope to hear from you soon. The article is Fontainea Venosa

Thank you so much :) Sparklingkull (talk) 09:37, 17 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Sparklingkull: Sure, I'd be happy to. North8000 (talk) 12:17, 17 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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done North8000 (talk) 14:26, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

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done North8000 (talk) 23:45, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 15:32, 19 June 2021 (UTC)

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DoneNorth8000 (talk) 15:31, 19 June 2021 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 12:37, 21 June 2021 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 11:23, 25 June 2021 (UTC)

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done North8000 (talk) 12:02, 26 June 2021 (UTC)

From Gerda Arendt

... for what you said on User talk:SlimVirgin - missing pictured on my talk, with music full of hope and reformation --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:23, 29 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Gerda Arendt: Thanks! North8000 (talk) 21:23, 29 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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GAN Backlog Drive - July 2021

Good article nominations \| July 2021 Backlog Drive
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Done North8000 (talk) 20:56, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

St. Joseph's Indian School

I tried to edit this article to establish a factual version and timeline cited and based on sources, and to clean up the sources, because sometimes the same article was referred to 3 times as if different ones. Yes, I should have asked permission first but got started early this morning. Elizium said I used incorrect formatting, and reverted edits where I had added Fr. to Hogebach. (I thought that and Rev. were pretty common for Catholic and Protestant clergy, respectively.) Some factual material wasn't included at all, such as the name of the college at Chamberlain or the number of students when St. Joseph's school started. If we could have a version that is more factual and cleaned up, it might make the Talk page more productive.Parkwells (talk) 16:46, 13 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Parkwells: Sorry I didn't see this sooner because you put it my user page instead of my talk page. I've subsequently said there that you are a rock-star neutral expert editor and thanked you for your work there.North8000 (talk) 17:06, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

Hi, North8000 - must have been too annoyed at the time, so have moved it to its correct place. Thanks for all your work on the article, too.Parkwells (talk) 17:30, 1 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@North8000 and Parkwells:, I think you both have done good things with the article. It continues to be expanded with relevant material. I honestly appreciate you both. --ARose Wolf 19:13, 1 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks!North8000 (talk) 20:34, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

Feedback request: Wikipedia policies and guidelines request for comment

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WikiProject Scouting Newsletter: July 2021

WikiProject Scouting | July 2021

Things to watch for:

New: Newest articles
Alert: Article alerts
Continuing: To do

Other ways to participate:

--evrik ^(talk) 17:32, 2 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Page move without adequate notice for discussion

See my ping at Talk:History of American Indian schools#Scope of this article and potential American Indian school articles, where I have strongly suggested that you self-revert and apply the discussion template for suggested page moves. A note on talk, with a header that does not mention a potential page move, and then moving it yourself when no one has responded to you after four days (two of them over a weekend) is not appropriate. Follow Wikipedia policy for page moves. I have linked the policy and template at talk. Don't make others have to clean this up. - CorbieVreccan ^☊ ☼ 21:23, 4 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

You are implying policies that don't exist. What you linked is instructions for people who want to have somebody move pages for them, and not only that even that is in the multiple page moves section.Finally, even if it WAS applicable, it describes what I already did. As I said there, lets let editors weigh in and go with whatever is decided. North8000 (talk) 00:09, 5 July 2021 (UTC)

Others have concurred that it was entirely proper. But again, let's just decide how it should end up and do that. North8000 (talk) 02:43, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

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Done.North8000 (talk) 02:42, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 12:33, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

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Done. North8000 (talk) 23:39, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 12:42, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 12:56, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for helping with the RFC I did try to clarify it more.Thelostone41 (talk) 13:34, 24 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Thelostone41: My pleasure. North8000 (talk) 17:19, 24 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

mail from SB

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Done North8000 (talk) 13:42, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 21:36, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

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Done. North8000 (talk) 21:45, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

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Done. North8000 (talk) 21:54, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

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Done. North8000 (talk) 12:57, 21 August 2021 (UTC)

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Done. North8000 (talk) 15:12, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

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File source problem with File:Justine Kerfoot 1940.jpg

Thank you for uploading File:Justine Kerfoot 1940.jpg. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, please add a link to the page from which it was taken, together with a brief restatement of the website's terms of use of its content. If the original copyright holder is a party unaffiliated with the website, that author should also be credited. Please add this information by editing the image description page.

If the necessary information is not added within the next seven days, the image will be deleted. If the file is already gone, you can still make a request for undeletion and ask for a chance to fix the problem.

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The source of the image is the current owner, Bruce Kerfoot who has granted the required license. He obtained ownership by inheriting it from the original owner, his mother, Justine Kerfoot.North8000 (talk) 12:25, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

WP:ROPE

I have drafted an alternative version of this essay at User:Cullen328/sandbox/One last chance and invite your input. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 23:01, 28 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Cool. Thanks for the invitation. North8000 (talk) 23:46, 28 August 2021 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 21:07, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 19:33, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

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Done. North8000 (talk) 11:53, 22 September 2021 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk)

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addition of a neuromorphic computing section to the article Artificial intelligence

@North8000

about the article Artificial intelligence :

I'd like to ask for consensus to add a section on specialized AI hardware.

the rationale for this is that talking about a type of software without the corresponding hardware makes the subject incomplete.

there are already Wikipedia articles on this subject which I will list below.

Neuromorphic engineering

Event camera

JAIC

Physical neural network

Memristor RJJ4y7 (talk) 14:23, 11 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@RJJ4y7: Thanks for the heads up. I've been gone but will be happy to go to discuss at the article page. North8000 (talk) 11:46, 13 October

2021 (UTC)

already started a section RJJ4y7 (talk) 15:19, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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You have been nominated

You are invited to join the discussion at meta:Movement Charter/Affiliates by Region/North America. You have been nominated by User:RightCowLeftCoast, with meta:San Diego Wikimedians User Group, to be a region selector for North America (Canada, and the United States) for the Movement Charter selector committee. If you accept your nomination, please indicate it on the page. If you do not accept your nomination, please remove yourself from the list of potential selectors. Thanks in advance for your time regarding this nomination, and thanks for everything you have done so far on a Wikimedia project. RightCowLeftCoast (Moo) 22:20, 12 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@RightCowLeftCoast: Thanks for the nomination. I don't fully understand this yet (including how to properly accept) but am happy to make my best effort.North8000 (talk) 11:43, 13 October 2021 (UTC)

@North8000: Thanks for accepting the nomination. Within the next day the Wikimedia Foundation affiliates in Canada, and the United States, will vote on those nominees who have accepted their nominations or who self nominated. The majority vote getter will then be selected as the North American Region selector on the affiliates selection committee, who will then decide among themselves who shall be the Wikimedia Foundation affiliates Drafting Committee members.--RightCowLeftCoast (Moo) 15:26, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@North8000: Thanks for volunteering your time! Here's a bit more context on the task you were nominated for -- this is a specific task to happen over the next 2 weeks to work with the other selectors who are chosen by the other regions of the world (as described here: meta:Movement_Charter/Drafting_Committee/Set_Up_Process#Selection_process to choose the 6-13 candidates you think are the best for the role of drafting the meta:Movement Charter. Here's the list of candidates you would choose from -- there are 70 and they are international, from all parts of the movement, so it will be a fair bit of review; here's some of the matrices developed so far. Each region gets to nominate a selector, so this is North America's process. The process of selecting candidates needs to wrap up by the beginning of November (the posted date is October 24 with announcement to happen by Oct 31), to coincide with the community vote on the candidates that will also be happening. So the task will be: read through the 70 candidates, and work with your 8 counterparts to decide who you think should take on the drafting/editing/conceptualization process that will result in the movement charter draft. This is complicated, let me know if you have questions! -- phoebe / (talk to me) 17:49, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It would be good to learn your views, North8000. Can't tell if you've been following the Movement Charter discussion. For logistical reasons I have to vote soon at least tentatively. I will try to tune in to tonight's North America meeting and hear the discussion. -- econterms (talk) 19:33, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Just a quick note that the affiliates have voted in another candidate but thanks again for being willing to volunteer! -- phoebe / (talk to me) 15:33, 14 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Folk Music

Hello there, and thanks for the thanks (what a pun.) Anyways, since you are the main editor of the page as far as I can see, I listed a concern on the talk page. Would you be willing to comment, since nobody else is active? Cheers,-- • Apollo468• 22:47, 13 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Cool. Happy to comment. North8000 (talk) 01:17, 14 October 2021 (UTC)

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Done. North8000 (talk) 18:09, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

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Done. North8000 (talk) 18:29, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

Help with Oaktree Capital Management

Hello North8000. I posted an edit request at Talk:Oaktree Capital Management a few days ago, and was rejected without discussion. Of course I am slightly biased due to a COI, but there appears to have been some oversight and I'd love to get a second opinion. A quick look at the other editor's contributions makes it clear that I will likely need a mediator, and you seem to be someone who may be willing to help. If you have a moment to check it out, I would really appreciate it. Thanks! LeiaVOaktree (talk) 19:21, 18 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@LeiaVOaktree:Happy to take a look. North8000 (talk) 19:47, 18 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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done North8000 (talk) 12:53, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 20:32, 28 October 2021 (UTC)

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done North8000 (talk)

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done North8000 (talk) 23:46, 2 November 2021 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 12:23, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 12:34, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 12:42, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 12:40, 11 November 2021 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 12:46, 11 November 2021 (UTC)

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done North8000 (talk) 13:13, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

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done North8000 (talk) 14:20, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

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Happy belated Thanksgiving!

	Happy belated Thanksgiving!
	Better late than never... Happy holidays! Huggums537 (talk) 09:36, 26 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Huggums537: Thanks! Have a great holidays! Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 14:19, 26 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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WP:RSP

You seem to be a bit confused about reliable sources, since you described content supported by The New York Times and The Washington Post as "fake news". I would suggest looking over WP:RSP to gain a better understanding of how these sources are treated on Wikipedia, since this might differ from your personal beliefs about them. –dlthewave ☎ 21:49, 27 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Dlthewave: What a complete insulting mis-statement or misunderstanding of what I said. If it's just latter and , please let me know and I'll be happy to discuss. North8000 (talk) 22:33, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

My apologies for any offense or misunderstanding. What exactly did you mean by "giving legs to fake news that 'assault weapon' is some specific type of weapon"? I guess I'm trying to wrap my head around the idea that we shouldn't use the term/concept in a way that reliable sources do. I'd really like to understand where you're coming from so that we can try to reach consensus. –dlthewave ☎ 23:15, 27 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

There are also RS's which quote originators which said that the term is invented to confuse (with military firearms) for political purposes, not to identify any type of firearm. My main goal is to avoid promulgating something that is objectively a falsehood, including statements that implicitly (falsely) state that it has a consistent meaning as a type of firearm. There are ways to increase coverage of the debates in this general area without propagating terminology falsehoods. They are vulnerable to attack by wikilawyering and so it would take a true joint effort by all concerned. In vague shorthand, it would be something like "persons and organizations are opposed to xxxxxxxxx style firearms (e.g. an AR-15) being available to the general public for the following reasons: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and use the term "assault weapons" to refer to those types of firearms.North8000 (talk) 23:44, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for explaining. Could you point me to one of the sources that quotes the originators? I'd love to learn. –dlthewave ☎ 23:58, 27 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Here's some (quoted) content:

Sugarmann, who happens to be a native of Newtown, argued that the American public's inability to differentiate between automatic and semiautomatic weapons made it easier to get anti-gun legislation passed.

"The weapons' menacing looks, coupled with the public's confusion over fully automatic machine guns versus semi-automatic assault weapons -- anything that looks like a machine gun is assumed to be a machine gun -- can only increase the chance of public support for restrictions on these weapons," Sugarmann wrote.

Gun rights advocates agree that the term "assault weapons" has furthered the idea that semiautomatic weapons are the same as fully automatic assault rifles, which they contend are much more dangerous.

The gun rights lobby also argues that 1) the word "assault" connotes offense and illegality, while the vast majority of such guns are used in a lawful manner and for defense and 2) so-called assault weapons differ from other guns solely because of cosmetic changes like a pistol grip or a threaded barrel for a silencer -- not in the way they actually fire bullets."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2013/01/17/is-it-fair-to-call-them-assault-weapons/

North8000 (talk) 00:15, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

Proposed new draft for the Jon Baker page

About 2 months ago I shared a proposed draft to rework the Jon Baker page to remove promotionalism (addressing the advert tags) and make the page more up-to-date. I haven’t been able to find any editors willing to review the draft for consideration and was hoping you might be willing to take a look. Kindest. Daizypeach (talk) 13:24, 1 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Daizypeach: Sure, I'd be happy to. North8000 (talk) 14:31, 1 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hi North8000. Hope you are well! I wanted to check-in on your feedback regarding the latest round of edits I requested to the Jon Baker (producer) page. No rush, but let me know if it's still on your radar. Daizypeach (talk) 11:42, 21 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Daizypeach: Thanks for the ping. I missed that you had responded to my request for an explicit definition of the proposed changes. More is at the article page and talk page. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 14:23, 21 February 2022 (UTC)

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done North8000 (talk) 15:32, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

Seeking neutral tone suggestions for RfC

Hello North8000, Thank you for your comments on the Jack Posobiec RfC. I was wondering if you had any suggestions on how to re-word the RfC into a neutral concise tone regarding the lead paragraph? MaximusEditor (talk) 21:31, 2 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@MaximusEditor: Happy to go and see if I can help. North8000 (talk) 21:35, 2 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Although this isn’t my main focus, I do think that RS’ing neutral labels could make it so the article reads as more NPOV. Maybe, put that after the current lede descriptions. (talk) 08:22, 7 December 2021 (UTC) (by Tylerf2022)[reply]

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Done. North8000 (talk) 14:48, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

Review of Social fabric

This article was mostly a copy/paste/duplication of Social network, to which it has redirected. I reverted to the redirect. MB 14:57, 6 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@MB: Thanks. I didn't realize that. North8000 (talk) 18:19, 6 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Requested updates

Hi North8000. My name is Daniel and I work for Sitel. A couple weeks ago I requested adding an acquisition and some updated infobox data to the Sitel page, but neither of the editors I pinged responded. I was wondering if you would be willing to take a look and consider making the edits if they are appropriate? DanSlavov (talk) 15:51, 6 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, I'd be happy to give it a look. North8000 (talk) 18:21, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 14:27, 22 December 2021 (UTC)

Featured Article Save Award

On behalf of the FAR coordinators, thank you, North8000! Your work on Great Lakes Storm of 1913 has allowed the article to retain its featured status, recognizing it as one of the best articles on Wikipedia. This is a rare accomplishment and you should be proud. You may display this FA star upon your userpage. Keep up the great work! Cheers, Nikkimaria (talk) 03:58, 23 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Nikkimaria: I'm honored and thanks! It was a pleasure working with everybody there! North8000 (talk) 14:12, 23 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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Intellectual exchange

In retrospect, if I thought your point to be rather strange, I only just realized that you are somewhat correct, I reviewed some articles today and it occurred to me that I had just marked 3 articles as reviewed even though the references didn’t necessarily meet what would we consider as “reliable” as documented in WP:RS, but since they met the relevant SNG, it was a slam dunk review, after my reviews, my mind went straight to what you said. I believe the dynamics in “sourcing” or how sources work, or ought to work with SNG's are a discussion for another day. Celestina007 (talk) 22:59, 28 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Celestina007: Thanks for the post. For me that particular discussion was on a simpler aspect of wp:notability. The top level guideline says that meeting the particular criteria is sufficient. At a more complex level, IMO the way that wp:notability actually works is a complex ecosystem not fully described in the guidelines. I wrote an essay which I think actually describes that, it is Wikipedia:How Wikipedia notability works. Finally there is the "what should it be? question. IMO the system documented at Wikipedia:How Wikipedia notability works mostly works but has a few problems, the biggest being:

Since much of it is complex and undocumented, it is confusing. Amongst other issues is that few understand it and it is unquotable when resolving specific problems
The SNG set the bar too low for sports figures (basically it's "did it for a living for at least one day") which makes Wikipedia flooded and imbalanced with those articles which is turn creats more secondary problems.
For highly encyclopedic topics which don't have their own SNG, it makes them too tough to get in. Actually (long story short) this actually falls under #1.

Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 13:52, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

You are apt, I read the essay and it made a whole lot of sense to me and even helped me to understand certain nuances I have struggled with in the past. Furthermore, I want to point to your #2 point above, and say I agree with you a 100%. Celestina007 (talk) 22:21, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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Done North8000 (talk) 04:47, 6 January 2022 (UTC)

Enabling factors

Thanks for that great insight[4], I've renamed the section to Mass_killings_under_communist_regimes#Enabling_factors, the former section title "Proposed causes" seems to have generated much argumentation in the past, so this may be a step in the right direction. Probably the section lead sentence needs to be updated to reflect that new section title. --Nug (talk) 19:12, 6 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Nug: Thanks, I'm flattered. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 19:19, 6 January 2022 (UTC) North8000 (talk) 15:45, 9 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Done North8000 (talk) 23:06, 9 January 2022 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 22:33, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

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Done. North8000 (talk) 13:58, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

Involvement in the Drn

Hi North8000, sorry for the trouble, I might sound petulant, I know, however now I need to know in what form you intend to be called to participate in the Drn on Italian parties. Soon I intend to filea request to the Drn, so I need to indicate the users directly involved. I don't know if you prefer to be notified by ping within the discussion, but to facilitate the procedure it would be more practical to indicate you as an involved user (which is not a bad thing). Obviously I will respect your every decision :) --Scia Della Cometa (talk) 09:54, 16 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Scia Della Cometa: Thanks for the message and it's no trouble. Happy to help there but that is my only care and capacity and so I don't want to be listed as involved. North8000 (talk) 18:31, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Ok, then I will not indicate you as an involved user, I trust in your participation. --Scia Della Cometa (talk) 19:22, 16 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, happy to help. North8000 (talk) 21:21, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Precious anniversary

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:53, 18 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Gerda Arendt: Thanks! North8000 (talk) 14:41, 18 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Feedback: Thanks

Thanks a lot for heeding my request. I just have no words. I'll always be here to return the favor :). Derivator2017 (talk) 20:40, 20 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Happy to help. I wouldn't call it a favor, other than helping a new editor learn Wikipedia. Now you need to do what I suggested! Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 20:42, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

Can you please really tell what's the issue with the page? It's similar to the one which you reviewed (i.e., Al Alia International Indian School). And yes kindly elaborate what you suggested because I have provided over 60 references and sources to make the page eligible for GNG. Derivator2017 (talk) 20:47, 20 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

What counts is articles by independent sources where the school is the subject of the article. I found one such reference in the article that I approved ( https://www.arabnews.com/node/227466). To be on firm ground, it needed two, but I gave you / it the benefit of the doubt. I found zero such references in the article which is at AFD (despite it having more references) So go find some articles by independent sources where the school is the subject of the article/coverage. North8000 (talk) 21:04, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

I see. I'm pretty sure I might be able to get one. Well, if you don't mind, it'd be really great help if you could ping some of the Wikipedians in the discussion and at least ask them to vote keep or anything near to it. In the meantime, I'll try to find the sources you've asked me for. Because in my view saving the article from being thrown in trash bin is the first thing I am supposed to do right now. Derivator2017 (talk) 21:21, 20 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

(by talk reader) @Derivator2017: Your request for North8000 to "ping some of the Wikipedians in the discussion and at least ask them to vote keep or anything near to it" violates WP:CANVASS. Wikipedia is not a platform for you to exploit. Chris Troutman (talk) 21:25, 20 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Got it Derivator2017 (talk) 21:28, 20 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I think three articles, one from Arab News (https://www.arabnews.com/yara-school-backs-diabetes-initiative), the other from Saudi Gazette (http://saudigazette.com.sa/article/22836/Yara-celebrates-Childrens-Day-and-spreads-awareness-about-diabetes) and the last one from Press Reader (https://www.pressreader.com/saudi-arabia/arab-news/20120507/281994669507834) are completely dedicated to the school. Derivator2017 (talk) 21:39, 20 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I uploaded the entire screenshot of an Arab News article that was discussing international schools in Saudi Arabia. The only reason an entire column was dedicated to the school because it was among the top ranking schools Derivator2017 (talk) 21:42, 20 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Finding those three references was good. You should do two things with them:

Incorporate material from the reference in the article, and add the references for that material
Note the references in the discussion page at the AFD page.

Putting an image of the newspaper was a bad idea. I will be forced to delete that and will discuss in the edit summary. North8000 (talk) 22:27, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

But be sure to use that newspaper article as a reference and also to discuss/ note it at AFD.North8000 (talk) 22:40, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

@North8000: Alright, I did as you said. Kindly have a look at it in the AFD page. And, just letting you know that those references were already incorporated in the article, maybe you and the others weren't able to spot it due to the inducing amount of material included in the reference list. Derivator2017 (talk) 09:19, 21 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I didn't notice those. North8000 (talk) 13:45, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

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WithdrawnNorth8000 (talk) 20:55, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 21:03, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

RfC at Ghurid dynasty article

I have restarted the RfC to resolve the neutrality and clarity issues at Talk:Ghurid dynasty#RfC about the map in the infobox of the Ghurid dynasty article. You are welcome to post again there. पाटलिपुत्र Pat (talk) 13:56, 27 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Happy to and I did it. North8000 (talk) 14:53, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

Hi North8000. I have worked on a caption per your request at Talk:Ghurid dynasty#RfC about the map in the infobox of the Ghurid dynasty article. Please see the caption under the large map in the middle of the thread. Best. पाटलिपुत्र Pat (talk) 06:36, 30 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the heads up. Will do. North8000 (talk) 15:33, 30 January 2022 (UTC)

Looks good. Based on that I changed my "conditional "yes" to "yes". North8000 (talk) 15:39, 30 January 2022 (UTC)

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Done. North8000 (talk) 13:57, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

etiquette at talk pages (this is not a nasty-gram)

Just a note that I am unclear on the etiquette of something. I put my response to Johnuniq above your response to me. I'm unclear if that was the right thing to do or not.

The situation before:

Me
JU
You

Now both JU and you were responding to me. I chose to respond to JU immediately below his post, leading to:

Me
JU
Me again
You

Your response is getting pushed further and further away from the post of mine that it was responding to. I wish it weren't. But if I respond to JU below your post, that might also be confusing. I don't know if there is a good way to handle this. I'll add that if you do know of a good way, I don't mind you reordering the posts. Adoring nanny (talk) 05:11, 1 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Adoring nanny: Thanks for the post. The general answer is that the format is going fine there; the reader just needs to understand how talk indents are used to make sense out of it. Responses have one more indent that the post they are responding to. Let's say you make a post and there are two responses directly to your post, John's response #1 and Mary's response #2. They both have a single indent. Then Sally responds to John's response. She writes just below John's response #1, thus pushing Mary's response further down the page and farther away from your post that she was responding to. If you go down from your post, single indents indicate that they were a response to your post (even if they are far away) until Larry comes along with a post that is not indented at all and so is not identified as a response to your post.

The above best answers your question and identifies the main concept so perhaps you should not read any further because I'm going to bring up a different secondary thing. But here goes. Posts with no indent are thus not identified as responses to any specific post but instead are identified as just relating to the OP and section. In this case, your OP is both. So my 'no indent" tied my post to the section and heading, not to your specific post. But in this case, the section/heading/OP and your post are one and the same so it makes no difference.

Hope that helps. Happy to discuss more if you wish. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 13:46, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

Makes perfect sense, thanks a lot! Adoring nanny (talk) 15:59, 1 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your help

Hey @North8000:, I would like to express immense gratitude from the bottom of my heart for helping me out in that tangled place. I firmly believe that the outcome would've been really different had you not heeded to my plea. I will always be grateful for your selfless contribution for saving three months of my hardwork and guiding me. I would also like to apologize if I had unintentionally pestered you a little bit. I just liked your way of simplifying complicated and convoluted instructions. Regards and have a nice day. Derivator2017 (talk) 20:10, 4 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Derivator2017: It was my pleasure and certainly no problem at all. Wikipedia editing is an alternate universe where much is different than real life and which takes an immense amount of experience to understand. My favorite thing to do is help new editors that are having trouble with that and so I was very happy to do it. My suggestion is to keep improving that article which would also be a good learning process for you. Happy to help with tips there too if you are interested. North8000 (talk) 23:20, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

@North8000: I am honestly glad that I was able to learn something new and I hope I might someday be in your position to help someone out as well. This incident shall be a forever remainder for me as long as I remain on this platform. As far as the article is concerned, I'm consistently working on it to avoid another deletion tag. And lastly, sorry for the late reply. Derivator2017 (talk) 10:40, 8 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I think the article hasn't been so far verified by any user. Can you do it ? Derivator2017 (talk) 10:40, 8 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

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Done North8000 (talk) 14:11, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

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done. North8000 (talk) 14:25, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

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Jesus v. Christ

Per the canonical gospels, Historicists assert that these literary narratives featuring god-Jesus contain biographical data for the historical personage Jesus b. Joseph/Pantera that can be extracted.

For Biblicists, the gospels are fictional narrative literature and do not support a historical figure but a historical Jesus of some sort probably existed.

Christ is a second-god, is the only-begotten son of First-god (YHWH), was incarnated in a virgin (Mary) and crucified for us. The Nicene Creed, the most widely accepted confession of the Christian faith (but not the only one), explains that this god will appear on Earth at the end of days to judge the living and the dead.

--2db (talk) 19:30, 6 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@2db: Thanks for the post. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 23:42, 6 February 2022 (UTC) North8000 (talk) 12:12, 8 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Done North8000 (talk) 18:26, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 18:46, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 11:34, 14 February 2022 (UTC)

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PragerU “Think Tank” request.

Apologies for not being specific on the last part, and being late (I was busy with something else :[). My reasoning for adding “think tank” to the lead, is that the ‘The Gravel Institute’ Is considered a think tank, and in the ‘The Gravel Institute’ Wikipedia article it even calls ‘PragerU’ a ‘think tank’. Also the two organizations are almost identical (the only difference being political approaches) in the way they produce their shows and videos. So since ‘The Gravel Institute‘ is considered a think tank, it only makes sense for ‘PragerU’ to be considered a think tank.
Now I do have to say that this does need a Wikipedia consensus, to consider ‘PragerU’ a think tank (as FormalDude advised). But of course the choice is always at the hands of the community. Regards 68.97.131.85 (talk) 19:07, 15 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@68.97.131.85:Thanks for the post. I'll take a peek. North8000 (talk) 13:43, 16 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Done North8000 (talk) 16:40, 17 February 2022 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 14:49, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

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Cone North8000 (talk) 14:48, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 14:47, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Zdnf

Thanks for your help with this investigation. I was disappointed that check user was turned down as there are likely live socks and sleeper accounts, regards Atlantic306 (talk) 23:16, 1 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Atlantic306:Thanks for the note. I don't think that they had a choice....I don't think that they retain the IP data that long. With the current account's pattern of deletions from ~1,500 articles in just a few months, the bigger worry may be a new next replacement account. Thanks for your vigilance and expertise, perhaps you'll be able to spot a new replacement account. :-) Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 23:56, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

Thanks you're right I've been told there is no info remaining from 2017. If you see a likely sockpuppet please let me know, regards Atlantic306 (talk) 00:05, 2 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Please reconsider your reverts of my edits to articles on wolf and bear attacks

Hi, you did this to my edits to List of wolf attacks in North America and List of fatal bear attacks in North America:

undo removal of large amount of long-standing information

However, the "information" I removed merited removal; it was irrelevant and presented in a sexist way. Much of it is unsourced and likely incorrect. It's not correct to put gender/sex labels (male, female, ♀, ♂) unless the person self-identifies with the labels. Besides, gender/sex is irrelevant to wolf or bear attack victimhood. The unstated purpose of including these labels here, where they are ascribed without consent and irrelevant to the topic, is to bolster patriarchy. (posted by 65.128.60.8)

@65.128-60.8: Thanks for the post. What that means is that the next step is to discuss your proposed large removals at the talk pages of those articles. Sincerely North8000 (talk) 18:03, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 21:21, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

OR at Black Rifle Coffee Company

This is not supported by the source given [5]. At first I blamed this on a racist IP and am shocked and immensely disappointed to find out it was you. Political POV pushing which directly contradicts the given source is not something I expected of you. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 17:59, 5 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Horse Eye's Back:Thanks for the post and the indirect compliment mixed in with the complaint. :-) The edits should be discussed.....would you like to do it here or at the article? The Wikilisting of the source that you are referring to is "Editors consider Salon biased or opinionated, and its statements should be attributed." And to double up on that, the Salon page that you are referring tow is not even about the event being described in that sentence. Certainly we need need a better source and one that is about the topic of that description. You seem to be implying some pretty nasty stuff about the editor personally from merely making the very defensible edit.....that has no basis and is out of line. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 18:20, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 21:07, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

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done. North8000 (talk) 23:39, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

Ssup

Hey North8000, it's me, Derivator2017. I hope you're doing fine. I was low-key inactive on this platform a lot lately due to my exams. So, just here to check up on ya as they're over now. I hope everything's fine with you and you continue to contribute to change the dimension we know as Wikipedia because. Such platforms really need people like you. Have a nice day ! Derivator2017 (talk) 16:17, 4 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Derivator2017: Thanks for the note and the compliment. I hope that things are going great for you!. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 17:34, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

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Comment on Baden Powell merge vote

Hi, I was just reading your comment on this merger discussion, it seems to me that your comment is a qualified do not merge, but your vote is "Weak merge". Is it a mistake or have I misunderstood?

All the best

--Boynamedsue (talk) 07:00, 11 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Boynamedsue: Thanks for pointing out my error. I'll go fix it. North8000 (talk) 13:35, 11 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks

Hey, I want to thank you personally for the effort you invested in the Founding Fathers dispute - and away from the embarrassingly and ridiculously long exchanges in which I have been a major perp. I believe our own disagreements have been primarily, as the character in Cool Hand Luke put it, a "failure to communicate". I am certain that if the two of us were working together on a subject of mutual interest we might disagree here or there, but within a brief exchange we'd be seeing eye to eye.

What has come across, though, is your good spirit, as reflected by your desire to help. I just quoted the Dylan song "The Ballad of Frankie Lee and Judas Priest" to of all people, a priest yesterday. The closing lines: "The moral of this story, the moral of the song, is simply that one should never be where one does not belong. So when you see your neighbor carrying somethin', help him with his load, and don't go mistaking Paradise for that home across the road". I live a fair part of my life by that, helping a woman in a supermarket reach a box on the top shelf, letting another driver get in front of me or listening to a friend's lament. That's the spirit I mean, the desire to help others with nothing else to gain. So thanks and I do hope we meet again. Allreet (talk) 06:22, 13 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Allreet: Thanks for that gracious, eloquent and thoughtful post. On your second paragraph, that is not only a more altruistic way to live, it is also a more fun way to live. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 07:31, 13 April 2022 (UTC)

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Done. Also see below. North8000 (talk) 13:22, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Founding Fathers - the "back story"

Thought I'd share this while it's on my mind. Local history drew me to Wikipedia. I had worked on some projects for our county's Chamber of Commerce and Historical Society a few decades ago. Using that background, I wrote two articles for Wikipedia on a Founding Father who signed the Declaration and whose house is a couple miles from mine. In updating these articles in January, I did some research on a colonial leader who had been associated with "my founder". I then looked up his Wikipedia article to learn he was considered a Founding Father. That struck me as extremely odd since he had been convicted of treason in the 1780s and was probably the highest ranked figure to earn the dishonor. Earlier, as speaker of the Pennsylvania assembly, he had signed the Continental Association, but as an ardent loyalist, he went on to become an aide to General Howe and then oversaw Philadelphia during the British occupation in 1777-78. After the British abandoned the city, he fled to England where he led the loyalist-in-exile cause. Through the article's edit history and some other forensics, I determined who had bestowed the title and on what basis (a single, misinterpreted article). It only took three months to straighten that out. The upside is I've learned a great deal about the founding and have gained a new interest. Allreet (talk) 13:02, 16 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Allreet: Thanks for that interesting background. It's also a pretty strong example of why you want to be careful / avid overreach in assigning the FF term. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 19:55, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

Joseph Galloway, as a signer of the Continental Association, earned the status. I tried to explain the similarity to O.J. Simpson to Allreet, events later did not remove his name from the record books, the Heisman Trophy, or the Football Hall of Fame. Wikipedia does not follow cancel culture illogic. Randy Kryn (talk) 11:55, 17 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Allreet:@Randy Kryn: I enjoy the discussion here, and being on a sidebar point I don't think that it misplaces discussion best consolidated elsewhere. Given that IMO the RFC is ambiguous in two areas (regarding mere presence of a name in the article and also what to do with the article) and thus would be an unresolved mess for a long time, possibly an attempted quick attempt at a short cut to a solution between the two main protagonists might be good here. My idea would be to add coverage of the term "Founding Fathers" to the article, make it clear that those in only the bigger group are generally not considered to be within that capitalized term group, do the same elsewhere in the article, remove the capitalization of the "F" in fathers in the title. Then you have a broader founding fathers functional article (where mere presence of a name in the article says little) and within that coverage of the Founding Fathers term and that it generally refers to the smaller group. Allreet, I (and it looks like the RFC) tend to agree with you on the narrow question, but the next stage would be deciding if that narrow decision should dictate everything regarding this article. And if the answer to that ends up being "yes", that would entail blowing up this entire article and reducing it to being an article about or through the lens of a 20th century term. VS what I proposed above being possibly 95% as good from your standpoint.

We'd shouldn't have a long discussion here away from the main venue, but if this is a shortcut to a final solution between the two main protagonists, maybe maybe that would be a good thing. Not perfect for either of you, but close enough for both of you, and skips the lengthy mess that I think that this article is inevitably headed into. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 14:45, 17 April 2022 (UTC)

I agree about not having an extended discussion here, nor did I intend to open one. At the moment, three such discussions are taking place. One is the DRN, which is temporarily on hold in deference to the second forum, the RFC. The third is the Founding Fathers talk page where we are allowed to discuss whatever issues we want to bring up. Allreet (talk) 04:44, 18 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Cool. Recapping, I just indulged a bit to in essence propose a possible shortcut to quickly settle what will otherwise be months of future discussions. North8000 (talk) 13:20, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

"Months of future discussion" - I certainly hope not. My expectation is that another RFC may be needed, but only to rid the articles in question of all of the unsourced edits made to the FF page and 50+ other articles in July and October of last year. Other implications, intended actions, possible improvements, and so forth need not be addressed at the moment. Allreet (talk) 14:52, 18 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I hope that I'm wrong. :-) North8000 (talk) 15:13, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Talk:College of Policing

Just in case you didn't see my reply. The RFC, including the diff in question, is at the very bottom of the page. You commented on the wrong section. 10mmsocket (talk) 21:20, 16 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I'll look at and fix. North8000 (talk) 21:21, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

Done. North8000 (talk) 13:23, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

Feedback request: Biographies request for comment

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Done North8000 (talk) 13:03, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

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Done. North8000 (talk) 13:07, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

New Page Patrol on its last legs from Jimbo's talk page

It occurs to me that if the community stops bullying and banning the editors doing the work, that some of these backlogs wouldn't be as bad. But when they top editors all end up with targets on their backs, you end up with backlogs. 173.71.200.195 (talk) 17:57, 28 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the post! North8000 (talk) 16:28, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

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Big Pharma

Good luck in improving this article. Various editors have commented on how it is advocacy that equates criticism of any aspect of the pharmaceutical industry as conspiracism. The only substantial source for the article is a short article by a non-expert in a journal for writers for pharmaceutical companies. The rest of it is just a coatrack for entering any conspiracy theories that reference the pharmaceutical industry.

On the positive side, the article only had 149 views last month. Also, it's too one-sided to be effective propaganda. Like the original source, it's preaching to the choir.

TFD (talk) 20:24, 29 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@The Four Deuces: Thanks for the post. I wasn't planning on diving in deep there. I thought you were fixing it. :-) :-) I was hoping to just give a few thoughts. At the 30,000' view, which do you think could be fixes?:

Delete article
Rename article to something matching it's current content, like "Criticisms of the pharmaceutical industry"
Strip out the content that is not RS'd identified as conspiracy theories
________________(Another idea)

Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 21:19, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

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Pass. I've already spent a lot of time there trying to help. North8000 (talk) 11:42, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

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done North8000 (talk) 20:14, 7 May 2022 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 20:18, 7 May 2022 (UTC)

I have sent you a note about a page you reviewed

Hello, North8000

Thank you for creating Monochrome-astrophotography-techniques.

User:North8000, while examining this page as a part of our page curation process, had the following comments:

Thanks for your work. I left a detailed note at the article. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 16:42, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

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Draft:Erika Brady

Your thoughts on this subject? FloridaArmy (talk) 17:45, 8 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@FloridaArmy: IMO it would survive in article space. I did not analyze in depth but it looks like it has a couple GNG sources. The 'official" guidelines don't have have a way to jointly consider prominence in a multitude of areas which she has. The folks are AFC are extra cautious, usually rejecting any that aren't a slam-dunk by the book. Because their only alternative is to go out on a limb a bit. North8000 (talk) 18:17, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

Barnstar

		The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar
		Thank you for your positive review on my article. Kelhuri (talk)

It was an "Occupation" & the occupation is what Ukraine Insurgent Army waged war against

The below is a short list of historians & Museums who use "occupied" to describe the Soviet occupation of western Ukraine after Stalin & Hitler invaded Poland. Remember, Poland took 'west Ukraine' for themselves after Poland defeated Ukraine in 1919 in the Polish-Ukraine war - so in the eyes of Ukraine Insurgent Army, that part of Poland belonged to Ukraine. The English-to-Ukraine translation of "Ukraine Insurgent Army" = "Ukrayinsʹka Povstansʹka Armiya" (UPA) & that's why they're called "UPA." UPA was army literally created to wage warfare against Soviet occupation of western Ukraine. That's what the article is about, and the title should reflect that.

United States Holocaust Memorial Museum: "the German-Soviet Pact was signed in August 1939. It paved the way for the joint invasion and occupation of Poland by Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union that September. The pact was an agreement of convenience between the two bitter ideological enemies." [6]
Museum of the History Of Polish Jews: "the eastern territories of Poland were captured on 17th September 1939 by the Soviet army. The authorities in occupation tried to legalize this situation."[7]
Historian Christoph Mick writes, "Soviet occupation policy in Lviv was based first and foremost on socio-political and power-political categories and only second on ethno-political ones."[8]
Historian Timothy Snyder writes, "Russian murder and abduction of local Ukrainian elites today resembles Soviet and German policy during their joint occupation of Poland in 1939." [9]
Historian Timothy Snyder: "Between 1939 and 1941, as they jointly occupied Poland, Moscow and Berlin each sought to destroy its national elites." [10]
Historian Timothy Snyder, "During the consolidation of National Socialism and Stalinism (1933-1938), the joint German-Soviet occupation of Poland (1939-1941), and then the German-Soviet war (1941-1945), mass violence of a sort never before seen in history was visited upon this region. The victims were chiefly Jews, Belarusians, Ukrainians, Poles, Russians, and Balts, the peoples native to these lands." [11]

Best regards, BetsyRMadison (talk) 20:20, 12 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@BetsyRMadison: Thanks so much for the post. I'm trying to be more of mere navigator / facilitator at the article deferring to you experts at the article who know far more than me rather than having an opinion deriving a finding. But this kind of learning is nice and helps me do that. So, pre WWII and early WWII the term was "occupation". What word would you use for the other periods that are within the scope of the current article? Thanks again. North8000 (talk) 20:59, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

@North8000: For the scope of this article, which is UPA's war against Soviet occupation - the word I'd use is occupation because it's the word historians use when discussing UPA waging war against Soviet occupation. Here's a brief explanation (bear with me): this article is not about all of the many different Ukrainian nationalists groups that battled & waged war with Russia (Soviets) from 1917-1991 in order to gain independence. This article is only, about UPA being an army created to fight against Soviet occupation. That was their mission & that's what/who they fought against. Period. Period.
And, as this article used to point out, OUN created the UPA as an army to wage war against Soviet occupation that began in 1939 in western Ukraine- but an editor removed that very important fact and they shouldn't have.
So, in short, the article is about a small pocket of time, that began swirling in western Ukraine, and an army, UPA, without a country, waging war specifically against Soviet occupation. And the fact that their battles had to last from 1941-late 1950s until the Soviets finally wiped them (UPA) out does not change the fact that: UPA was an army created to wage war against Soviet occupation. Period. That was their mission & that's what/who they fought against. Period.

As an aside, in international law, a territory is considered “occupied” when it's placed under the authority of the hostile belligerent. From 1922-1991 Ukraine had been placed under the authority of hostile belligerent (Soviets & their Red Army) and Ukraine waged war with them the entire time, but that is not the scope of this article. This article has a very limited scope: UPA war against Soviet occupation.
Here's brief & very sloppy history of the Soviet occupation of Ukraine.

1) From 1917-1991 Ukraine waged wars (plural) with Russia/Soviets for Independence until U.S.S.R fell in 1991.

2) In 1919 western Ukraine fell to Poland & eastern Ukraine fell to Soviets

3) So, starting in 1919, a Ukraine Nationalists group inside Poland's western Ukraine, called OUN, became antagonistic to Poland for occupying western Ukraine.

4) From here down is the very important part & is the scope of the article: Because OUN was only concerned with west Ukraine (at that time), they didn't give a shit about Soviets (yet).

5) OUN inside Poland's western Ukraine only started giving a shit about Soviets in 1939, when Stalin collaborated with Hitler, invaded Poland, occupied western Ukraine & booted Poland out. (Let that sink in).

8) Then, in 1941-42 (depending on who you talk to) UPA was created to be OUN's army to oust Russian/Soviet occupation.

9) In 1941, Hitler booted out Soviets, UPA cheered 'Yippi! Our liberators saved the day!' so that's when OUN's Stepan Bandera declared Ukraine independent; that declaration pissed Hitler off so Hitler had Bandera put in a Nazi concentration camp. (Yikes! Not really the liberators OUN was hoping for.)

10) In 1944 Soviets boot Hitler out, OUN-UPA freak out and that's when all the waring-hell really starts to break loose between UPA & Soviets. (The article used to have that in it, but it was removed - and it should not have been.)

11) Sometime in late 1950s (around 1959-ish) Soviets finally obliterate the army UPA.

12) Summary: The article is about a pocket of time that an army UPA waged war against Soviet/Red Army occupation.

Sorry for the length of this & sorry it's a sloppy version of history, but believe it or not, I left out a ton of stuff. Thanks for being you, you're a great editor to edit with. Best regards, BetsyRMadison (talk) 23:18, 12 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@North8000: PS. The term historian Timothy Snyder uses to describe this period, 1944 when Soviets booted Hitler out of western Ukraine is "second Soviet occupation." [12] And that fact used to be in the article, but an editor removed it and they should not have. Anyway, if wiki wants to use terms our historians sources use; then we'll use "occupation" and describe the "2nd occupation" (that historians call it) somewhere in the body. Or, if wiki wants to deviate from sources, ignore sources, and instead re-write history in the false-words "editors" like or dislike; then "occupation" won't be used. I know the history, our readers don't. I'd like our readers to learn facts from the historians, like I did. Best wishes to you & yours, BetsyRMadison (talk) 01:08, 13 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

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Done North8000 (talk) 12:14, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

I have sent you a note about a page you reviewed

Hello, North8000

Thank you for creating Flag of Orania.

User:North8000, while examining this page as a part of our page curation process, had the following comments:

Notes from Preliminary New Page Patrol review. Thanks fpor your work. IMO does not have the coverage and resultant content to be a separate article. IMO it would be good to merge this into the Orania article. I did not do any disposition, just left this note and the tag. Either way, thanks for your work andwish you happy editing. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 12:33, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

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I have sent you a note about a page you reviewed

Hello, North8000

Thank you for creating George Hunter (footballer, born 1996).

User:North8000, while examining this page as a part of our page curation process, had the following comments:

Thanks for your work. IMO does not meet WP:Notability under either GNG or the SNG. Suggest merging into the team article. Other than this note and tag, I did not do any dispositions. Either way, happy editing! North8000 (talk) 13:31, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

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I have sent you a note about a page you reviewed

Hello, North8000

Thank you for creating Cult of the Damned.

User:North8000, while examining this page as a part of our page curation process, had the following comments:

Notes from preliminary New Page Patrol review. IMO it needs to add and use 1-2 independent sources that discuss the band in depth. I just added ta and this note hopefully to build towards that.

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North8000 (talk) 12:10, 19 May 2022 (UTC)

I have sent you a note about a page you reviewed

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Thank you for creating Cult of the Damned.

User:North8000, while examining this page as a part of our page curation process, had the following comments:

Notes from preliminary New Page Patrol review. IMO it needs 1-2 independent sources with in-depth coverage of the band added.

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North8000 (talk) 12:13, 19 May 2022 (UTC)

Cult of the Damned

Hi!

Hope you're well!

I created the page Cult of the Damned that was tagged as possibly not notable. I think it meets the notability guidelines, as a fairly experienced editor. I just wanted to know your reasoning. When I created the article, I looked at WP:MN and, in my interpretation, Cult of the Damned has:

1. "released two or more albums on a major record label or on one of the more important indie labels (i.e., an independent label with a history of more than a few years, and with a roster of performers, many of whom are independently notable)."

They're on Blah Records who have been approved by new page patrol and are 100% independently notable.

2. "Has received non-trivial coverage in independent reliable sources of an international concert tour, or a national concert tour in at least one sovereign country"

https://www.wordplaymagazine.com/blog-1/2019/3/4/live-review-cult-of-the-damned-jazz-cafe-camden

https://www.wordplaymagazine.com/blog-1/2019/4/16/interview-stinkin-slumrok-amp-bill-shakes-cult-of-the-damned

https://ukhh.com/lee-scott-cult-of-the-damned/

Three established sources all mentioning a national concert tour.

What do you think of my take here? Would love to know your thoughts.

Thanks,

The Flying Spaghetti Monster! 12:41, 19 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@The Flying Spaghetti Monster: Thanks for the post. What I think is that you are right and that the tag is un-warrented. I think what happened is that you know this situation including the sources better than I do,. combined with the non-English source, plus New Page Patrol is a sinking ship regarding the backlog and I've been trying to get a lot of reviews done to help. I'll go fix things at the article and tag it as reviewed.Sorry for any grief. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 15:30, 19 May 2022 (UTC)

No worries at all, these things happen! Thanks for being straight up with your reply, much appreciated. And appreciate your new page patrolling efforts, keep it up! The Flying Spaghetti Monster! 17:17, 19 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your work on Anti-Soviet resistance by the Ukrainian Insurgent Army RM

Thanks for all of your work at Talk:Anti-Soviet resistance by the Ukrainian Insurgent Army herding cats and getting the article moved to a much better title. — AjaxSmack 15:21, 19 May 2022 (UTC) @AjaxSmack: Thanks and my pleasure. I left a note there that I'm ready to leave and leave it to you experts. Or if there are any big open question which I might try to help navigate, I'd be happy to help more. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 17:25, 19 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Feedback request: History and geography request for comment

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Did you really think that attack on me was acceptable? I wouldn't let an attack on you like that stand

It contributed nothing to the discussion and by reinserting it you appear to be supporting it. Looking at the editor's posts in 2020 when he was last active, his comments aren't surprising. I see I gave him several warnings then also. Doug Weller talk 15:07, 20 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Doug Weller: I screwed up. I failed to notice that it was directed at an individual; I'll revert myself. North8000 (talk) 15:30, 20 May 2022 (UTC)

@Doug Weller: Please accept my apologies. North8000 (talk) 15:37, 20 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. We all make mistakes, miss things, etc. Doug Weller talk 15:44, 20 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Doug Weller:It started with a focus on the rationale on the deletion which didn't mention that and then I didn't review closely enough. North8000 (talk) 16:04, 20 May 2022 (UTC)

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Michael wood deletion

Hi north8000 Iv written this message a couple times I’m new to wiki and not sure where to put it aha. Iv seen you nominated Michael wood cinematography for deletion and im interested why and would like to see if there’s anything I can do to improve the page. Thank you! Redtex4 (talk) 02:55, 28 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Redtex4: The question of the moment is whether or not the subject meets WP:Notability for existence as a seperate article rather than quality of the article. (and BTW I'm just trying to do my New Page Patrol job properly) The best thing to do regarding that would be to find independent sources that write about him in some depth and incorporate them and material from them in the article. Since this will probably get decided in 1-2 weeks, if you're running out of time, just find the sources and list / describe them (and provide links if on line) that the AFD page. Let me know if I can help with any other guidance or clarification. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 03:05, 28 May 2022 (UTC)

Aaaa ok I see thank you. I had read about notability and was hoping the references I included was enough I fully understand if not there is only a couple. I will try and find some more independent articles I think there was something else in the British cinematographer magazine. How should I incorporate these sources/articles into the Wikipedia page. Thanks again! Redtex4 (talk) 03:15, 28 May 2022 (UTC) Aha ok thank you I’m away right now but will get on that from Monday. Thanks again for the help this is all quite new to me! Redtex4 (talk) 10:15, 28 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

(As a preface, the quantity of references is secondary. What's far more important is finding 1-2 independent published sources that discuss him in some depth.) Now, to answer your question, find things that the independent sources said about him and put that material into the article (in your own words......don't copy it in) and put the sources that you found in as references. Again , if you can't get that done within a week, just find the sources and list / describe them (and provide links if on line) that the AFD page. Whether or not such sources exist is the main question of the moment. North8000 (talk) 03:27, 28 May 2022 (UTC)

Hi north, thanks for the help on this iv done some reading and realised this page definitely deserves to be deleted for not meeting notable person rules. I won't in time before deletion but if I am able to find some independent sources and more information could I remake the page at a later date or would this not be allowed? Cheers again for the help! Redtex4 (talk) 22:30, 3 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Redtex4: Yes you can. For most situations you can simply recreate the article. But I'd make sure that you are on pretty firm ground regarding wp:notability before you do that. If you think you'd need just a little extra time to find those sources, you can ask for it at the AFD and I'd support you on that (just ping me) Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 22:49, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Just so I can relax about it and do it in my free time I don't think I'll request a time extention. Is there a way to move the page back into draft or something similar so I can work on it over more time or should I just start a new draft from scratch. Thanks, Redtex4 (talk) 23:09, 3 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I think so. I'll try to get that done.North8000 (talk) 13:01, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

@Redtex4: I looked and it's too late, it got deleted.If you are easily able to start over in a draft area, I'd suggest that. You can also request that it get undeleted and more to a draft space. I'm sure they'll say yes, but am not fluent enough on the details and I don't know if there is any backlo on requests. If it comes up, you can say7 that the person who initiated the AFD supports your request. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 13:10, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

Cecile Paul Simon Article

Hi North8000,

Thanks for your kind remark about the Cecile Paul Simon article. It’s nice to get positive feedback! T. E. Meeks (talk) 22:20, 28 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Debt Recovery Tribunal.

Hi North8000. Thanks for your time and effort in reviewing this article and giving feedback. If you feel tha is important you can proceed and do so. Gardenkur (talk) 00:08, 29 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Railway Claims Tribunal

Hi North8000. Thanks for your time and effort in reviewing this article and giving feedback. If you feel tha is important you can proceed and do so. Gardenkur (talk) 00:11, 29 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Maryanne Oktech

Hello! Thanks for the heads up on Maryanne Oktech. Every prior Survivor winner has an article on the English Wikipedia. Until a new player wins a season, they usually just redirect to the list article that houses every player name unless they have other notoriety. Someone will probably try to recreate the page soon and hopefully it will meet guidelines. I will probably not be the one to expand it unless I feel inspired. Red Director (talk) 00:27, 29 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Red Director: Thanks for the message. I just do my best to do the job properly. In addition to the guidelines I do look to wp:outcomes for common practice. Your post sounds like useful information but I did not understand what you meant. Could you clarify? Thanks. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 13:18, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

@North8000: Sorry for the confusing wording. I was referring to this list article as what all non-notable players redirect to. It was thought that the player should redirect to their respective season but the sheer amount of players that have played multiple times made the decision to redirect here the easier one. Now, about Maryanne Oktech, per this template, every winner has a Wikipedia article in the mainspace. I originally made Maryanne as a redirect while the season was going on and did not expand on her article. Some other editors did after the fact. The other 41 winners having an article is my only rationale for her having a page in the mainspace. I will leave that up to you and other editors down the line. Thanks for getting back. Red Director (talk) 16:41, 30 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Red Director: Thanks. I also have no strong opinion....again, just trying to do my NPP job properly. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 16:46, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

Feedback request: Biographies request for comment

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Done North8000 (talk) 13:05, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

Beach gear (ship salvage) moved to draftspace

An article you recently created, Beach gear (ship salvage), is not suitable as written to remain published. It needs more citations from reliable, independent sources. (?) Information that can't be referenced should be removed (verifiability is of central importance on Wikipedia). I've moved your draft to draftspace (with a prefix of "Draft:" before the article title) where you can incubate the article with minimal disruption. When you feel the article meets Wikipedia's general notability guideline and thus is ready for mainspace, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page. Robert McClenon (talk) 16:51, 30 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Robert McClenon: The article is only five minutes old. I have many references and am adding them, albeit interrupted by this post. :-) You really need to look closer before you do these things. :-) North8000 (talk) 16:55, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

That's what draft space and user space are for. (Article space is for articles, not for half-formed articles.) Robert McClenon (talk) 17:30, 30 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Robert McClenon: What you are implying is not correct. Within 5 minutes the article was not only OK for initial entry into article space but also suitable to make it through NPP. Then they get developed by the community. North8000 (talk) 17:38, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

Zeev Zohar

Thank you! In the HEbrew wikipedia I wrote many articles about chess, I add sometimes also on the English one. --Yoavd (talk) 17:10, 1 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Yoavd: Keep up the good work! Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 17:11, 1 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment

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Observation

Thanks for patrolling FabFitFun, the latest of my rapid article output intended to get me access to the helper script. I was told last year that I don't have enough articles under my belt to get the script, and so have been creating a lot of articles lately to meet the threshold. During this, I noticed that a lot of inexperienced people are patrolling. See Talk:Cue Health and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cue Health. Hatchens was just blocked Special:Contributions/Hatchens, and now I'm up against Ari T. Benchaim, the creator of this article just last year: Draft:Golden Sunrise Nutraceutical, Inc.. I'm not responding to the nomination because I'm hoping that others will chastise him/her for their poor judgement, but we'll see. TechnoTalk (talk) 06:16, 3 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@TechnoTalk: Thanks for the post. A lot there which I'd need to learn more about before attempting to comment. As noted, the article was AFD'd before I even looked at it. When an article is at AFD it goes off the NPP "to do" list and so as noted my marking of the article was (only) to implement that. Happy editing! Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 12:06, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for patrolling. I wasn't really expecting anything - just venting I guess that someone can AfD an article like FabFitFun while writing one about a company that is clearly just in the news for a single event. TechnoTalk (talk) 19:13, 3 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

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Done North8000 (talk) 22:40, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Quick question - flagging AfDs

Hiya. I notice you flag AfDs as resulting from NPP. Do you find that helps/encourages people to be more easy going? Just wonderin' :) Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 07:20, 6 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Alexandermcnabb: I do it because I think that it is helpful to provide context and also helps the respondents by letting them know that they aren't dealing with some more complex people situation. And other than the general goal of wanting to have AFD's get decided correctly, I don't have a goal of a particular result for one I take to AFD. I just want to do the NPP job properly, and once one goes to AFD, it has been "handed off" for the next group of volunteers to handle. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 11:14, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

I have sent you a note about a page you started

Dear North8000. I thank you for your comments and time for reviewing this article. Looking forward to connect with you more and working for growth of Wikipedia in public platform. Thanks again. Gardenkur (talk) 02:18, 7 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Gardenkur: My pleasure. Those articles are highly enclyclopedic topics. North8000 (talk) 09:18, 7 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks & Help

Dear North8000. I would like to say thank you for your kind words upon reviewing a number of pages I have created. It is greatly appreciated. (There are others you might want to cast your your eye over such as John Dearth, Tariq Yunus and Rio Fanning.)

Are you good at getting draft pages into mainspace? If so, the following could be looked at:

Keep up the good work.Silurian25 (talk) 12:53, 11 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the post and your work. My wiki-minutes are already spread too thin to be getting into drafts but I'd be happy to look at those three. I tend to be a bit tougher on ones where I was asked. :-) Happy editing! North8000 (talk) 14:14, 11 June 2022 (UTC)

I marked the first and third as reviewed. For Tariq (with off line sources) I'd have to do more research than I'm able to do right now to be comfortable with marking as reviewed. Happy editing! Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 17:25, 11 June 2022 (UTC)

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

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Response regarding consensus

Regarding these edits: I had assumed your response was to Beeblebrox, but after I noticed you had adjusted your list nesting level, I'm not sure now. If your comments were in response to me, then I've failed to be clear. I agree that the presence of some editors objecting to the implementation of a process isn't an indication that a new consensus is required to proceed with the process. isaacl (talk) 20:46, 15 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Isaacl:Thanks for the post. I meant it as a response to the concept in Beeblebrox's post, but made a mistake and added one too many colons. Then I immediately saw my mistake and fixed it. I agree 100% with your post. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 21:04, 15 June 2022 (UTC)

Thanks. Because it's currently nested as one list level below my comment, it seems like a response to me, which is slightly confusing with the generic "That's like saying" reference that could be referring to my comment. I appreciate the clarification. isaacl (talk) 21:08, 15 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Isaacl: Thanks for pointing that out so graciously.....that I had it wrong even after I "fixed" it. So now I think I really fixed it. :-) North8000 (talk) 21:17, 15 June 2022 (UTC)

I know some people's style is to continue a thread of conversation by replying to the last person in the chain, even if they're actually responding to an earlier comment. (If anyone reading this likes this convention, it's helpful in those cases to make an explicit reference to the earlier comment in the prose.) Thanks for adjusting the nesting on the talk page. isaacl (talk) 21:23, 15 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Feedback request: Biographies request for comment

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Arbitration case opened

You recently offered a statement in a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Conduct_in_deletion-related_editing. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Conduct_in_deletion-related_editing/Evidence. Please add your evidence by July 9, 2022, which is when the evidence phase closes. You can also contribute to the case workshop subpage, Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Conduct_in_deletion-related_editing/Workshop. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Wikipedia:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration. For the Arbitration Committee, firefly ( t · c ) 11:21, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

A barnstar for you!

	The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar
	Thanks for taking the extra step to leave nice notes on editors' talk pages when you've reviewed an article they created. It's really encouraging, especially for newer editors, to hear that somebody appreciated the work they did. Schazjmd (talk) 18:14, 18 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Schazjmd: My pleasure!

Politeness and Respect

@North8000: In contrast to your colleague valareee or whatever her name is (with regards to the potential deletion of Malimooju) I just wanted to say that I am pleased with how respectful you've been and am thankful for how understanding you've been. I don't know why that woman has her knickers in a knot but she's extremely rude and I'm rather peeved off about it. Can you provide me with information regarding how to submit an official complaint about a moderator? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Eagleye1001 (talk • contribs) 18:39, 19 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

(by talk reader) @Eagleye1001: So in the past eight years on Wikipedia you hadn't learned that we have admins, not moderators? This isn't a 1995-era BBS and this website is run by volunteers, so I'm not sure how "official" you think your complaint should be. The people who own the servers don't care. You could waste your breath at WP:AN but I can guarantee you the situation would not resolve to your satisfaction. Chris Troutman (talk) 22:50, 19 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Slip up of words. Not the answer I was expecting but thanks for being straight with me regardless! Eagleye1001 (talk) 22:53, 19 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Eagleye1001: That wasn't me who answered you. North8000 (talk) 23:57, 19 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

My advice is let it go. Spend more time in Wikipedia and figure out how this alternate universe works. And have some fun while doing that. North8000 (talk) 00:03, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

Feedback request: Wikipedia proposals request for comment

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Done. North8000 (talk) 12:04, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

Feedback request: History and geography request for comment

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Page Curation notices aren't any use if the editor who actually started the article isn't getting them

You need to have some sort of manual oversight about sending Page Curation notices to the editor who actually created the content on an article, because you have left me three notices about pages I did not create in the past month alone. What use are these messages if the editor who actually started the content isn't getting your feedback, which usually consists of "nice work" (really helpful, by the way)? I have previously raised this with you and you are still doing it. Perhaps you should go through whom you have left Page Curation notices for and actually check if they are the editor who started the content. IIRC, you said last time that I should raise this with whomever created the Page Curation tool, but how do you not seem to have an issue with leaving a message for the wrong editor? They're of no use to me. Actually do some manual oversight and check to make sure they're sent to the right editor. Ss112 02:17, 22 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It went to you because you were the one who technically started the page. Sorry if it went to you (and them) rather than the one who developed the bulk of the content. Hopefully your experience of getting a misplaced compliment was more pleasant than getting chewed out for sending a misplaced one. Possibly you could come help at NPP. We are struggling with a huge backlog and would love to get caught up so that we can take deeper and more leisurely looks at articles. North8000 (talk) 02:29, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

I have sent you a note about a page you reviewed

Hello, North8000

Thank you for creating Executive Order 14070.

User:North8000, while examining this page as a part of our page curation process, had the following comments:

Good start. The provision section could use some pretty heavy re-work. The wording sounds like PR type characterizations rather than saying what's in the order. I marked it as reviewed. Happy editing!

To reply, leave a comment here and begin it with {{Re|North8000}}. Please remember to sign your reply with ~~~~ .

(Message delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.)

North8000 (talk) 02:41, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

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June 2022

Hello, I'm NeverTry4Me. I wanted to let you know that one or more of your recent contributions to Jyotirmay Chakravarty have been undone because they did not appear constructive. If you would like to experiment, please use your sandbox. If you have any questions, you can ask for assistance at the Teahouse. Your edit was disruptive as the page was accepted through AFC submission with this diff https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jyotirmay_Chakravarty&oldid=1084434112. Please refrain from such act. _{- Signed by}NeverTry4Me ^Talk 04:36, 22 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@NeverTry4Me: You are lucky that I'm a nice guy or you'd be taking a trip to WP:ANI for accusing me of vandalism and disruption for putting a notability tag on an article during new page patrol. It matters on two levels here at the AFC is not infallible. First it certainly does not justify making such accusations for somebody placing the tag. Second, it does not justify removing the tag with no changes or discussions. I placed the notability tag because I felt it was an edge case, and alternative to AFD. The article has zero of the type of references required for GNG, and the article/topic does not meet any SNG provision. I'm going to simply sit back and leave it for another NPP'er to review. North8000 (talk) 12:09, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

@North8000: Thanks for your understanding. But AFC accepted articles are already reviewed by a reviewer. Moreover, a Director General level police officer, with awards, scam investigation, etc., is notable by WP:COMMONSENSE. There are enough citations available as resource to support the article, though I have avoided landing CITEKILL. Kindly correct me if I'm wrong. _{- Signed by}NeverTry4Me ^Talk 12:19, 22 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@NeverTry4Me: I'll start by reiterating that I consider it an edge case and I'm not going to get that worried about an edge case. AT NPP we implement notability guidelines. They essentially say that in order for it to exist as a separate article it either has to meet a SNG criteria or else meet GNG which requires in depth coverage of the topic by independent sources. None of the sources is of that type. So it's not a matter of quantity of sources, it's a matter of having 1 or 2 of the required type of sources. The reference to director general was a brief unclear one in the lead and is not stated in the body, which the lead should merely be a summary of. For various reasons I'd recommend putting that clearly and explicitly in the body and sourcing / citing it. All things considered, I marked/passed it as reviewed and wish you happy editing in the future. North8000 (talk) 12:45, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

@North8000: I have cited government circular/notification for his Director General empanelment, and cited all Indian National level newspaper sources. The Indian newspapers have a common problem of using "Staff Reporter", "Correspondent", "Bureu" etc instead of using the reporter's name. In many instances, his name is misspelled also. I have used the correct name from the Indian Police Academy's official website. But, I am taking your advice/remark to update the article per Wiki policy. Thank you for your kind assistance. _{- Signed by}NeverTry4Me ^Talk 13:56, 22 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

My last suggestion was in essence to put in a sentence or two which clearly explains what that position is including what geographic area it was over. It sounds like maybe he was the highest level police official for a particular state or possibly all of India. North8000 (talk) 16:35, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

@North8000 He was promoted to Director General level but he went for voluntary retirement with dissatisfaction over promotions are handled by politicians. His last posting was India level police officer. And he worked for India level agencies like the National Security Guard, Special Protection Group, SSB, Special Branch. Also, he handled many top investigation during his tenure. As per record available, he served 34 years in the police service before his voluntary retirement and he had 2 more years of his service which is a long service period. Also, as per resources available, he is 2nd youngest IPS officer from the state (youngest is Jayanta Narayan Choudhury). About his personal life, I don't know and I have no resource for it. _{- Signed by}NeverTry4Me ^Talk 00:06, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The best way I can think of saying it is for you to read your article as someone who knows nothing about the topic and no specialized knowledge about positions/items in India, and without looking at external links, and make sure that the most important items (such as the highest position that he held) are clearly stated and explained in text.North8000 (talk) 15:07, 23 June 2022 (UTC)

Xerosydryle

See polywater. This is not so much a hoax as a case where the experimenter has deluded or deceived himself, which is pathological science. This is water behaving in a non-liquid fashion under ordinary conditions, supposedly due to an unusual supramolecular structure, which would be the hydrogen bonding becoming supercharged. Just like with the polywater of fifty years ago, if this were stable or metastable, it would have already happened. Thank you for flagging it. Robert McClenon (talk) 23:43, 22 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Robert McClenon: When I did the initial review I figured it was a neologism and probably promotional by/for whoever created it. Also it looked a bit like what's in the next paragraph (non-hoax gibberish which I guess is a type of hoax) . Also (I'm strong in a lot of science/tech areas but chemistry isn't one of them) I couldn't tell if (the neologism aside) if there was a real topic/article there which is why I took it to / made an inquiry at the chemistry project.

The wording of the bulk of the article reminded me of an interesting situation when I once exposed a large amount (at least dozens, I think even more than that) of hoax-via-non-hoax gibberish articles that had gotten through, created by a wiki-saavy person. In each they picked some what appeared to be vague technical area. They went and found random material from several sources and cut/pasted it in (probably with minor tweaks to avoid copyvio checks) and then cited the sources. The result was a very-wikipeian-looking sourced article which on the whole was incoherent gibberish which to an average reader just looked like "over my head". I was a newbie then and just reported it. I forgot what they/we were able to find out about the editor, but it sort of looked like a study or "expose" in progress which I caught and ended. Sort of like "look, just by knowing how to look Wikipedian, I was able to get 50 hoax/gibberish articles into Wikipedia" North8000 (talk) 12:56, 23 June 2022 (UTC)

What slightly surprised me is that, although they realized that xerosydryle is not real science, they didn't recognize that it seems to be polywater. Robert McClenon (talk) 14:47, 23 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Robert McClenon: A part of how I got to be weak on chemistry is in high school when I ended up in an AP Chemistry class when they cancelled my wanted AP Physics class. They gave us way too much freedom and our group goofed off by saying that we were trying to make polywater. North8000 (talk) 15:02, 23 June 2022 (UTC)

Feedback request: Biographies request for comment

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done. North8000 (talk) 12:24, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

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Articles on departments/authorities within cities

HI North8000.Hope you are keeping well. Thanks for reviewing your articles and sharing the feedback. However these all are Government organisations and subsequently will be edited with more related information on their functions and other details. Still if you have any feedback I am open to take it. Thanks. Gardenkur (talk) 02:43, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Gardenkur: Thanks for the post. To keep the discussion from being split, here's a copy of my post on your talk page:

(Title:Articles on departments/authorities within cities) First, most importantly, thanks for your work! Next, during new page patrol work I came upon a larger amount of articles on departments/authorities within cities. These articles seem to consist of mostly general info regarding the type of department/authority (copied between many many articles) and then a smaller amount of content that is unique to the subject. Also much of the latter is about individual related events rather than being directly about the subject as a whole. If you are still making more of these, I'd like you to consider make them instead a paragraph or section within the article of the city which they are a part of. Thanks again for your work.

To get more specific, it appears that you have over 100 of these awaiting review. From a sampling, it appears that each contains mostly "boiler plate" which is copied across a large number of articles. ......material and references that are about this type of entity in general rather than the specific topic of the article. And it looks like 95%-100% of the sources are about this type of entity in general rather than the specific topic of the article. IMO this is basically mass creation of articles which clearly fail WP:notability.....no sourcing to meet GNG and clearly not meeting the SNG for organizations. It should be noted the GNG requires some in-depth coverage about the subject of the article. And so info about that type of entity in general or about related happenings within it does not count towards that requirement. I think that mass creation in this manner might also conflict with guidelines/policies/ procedures. My post was to pursue the idea of you just putting the info that is unique to the topic as a sentence or section in the article for the city which it is a part of.....as a minimum for any new ones so that the IMO problem doesn't get any larger. What do you think?North8000 (talk) 13:23, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

HI North8000. Thanking you for your detailed reply. I will surely consider all your suggestions making other articles with some time gap. However just wanted to share with you that these are government organisations with public interest. I came across many Government Organisations which are in main space without notable references but in public interest. These organisations are situated in country side with limited or no media coverage but supporting the local population. More importantly the addresses of these organisations and the heads governing them are important along with their contacts to approach them. However if you feel I need to give some more time before adding more articles, I will follow. Thanks again. Gardenkur (talk) 13:36, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

My thoughts on this topic are that these articles should be merged into a main article, and not left as standalone articles because they fail GNG and WP:NOTINDISCRIMINATE. Organizations/departments/authorities, etc. within a country/state/city should be merged into the main article about the country/state/city. If already included there, then redirect the standalones to the #section title. Some examples: Faisalabad, Pakistan, New York City, Delhi, United States government and on and on. Atsme 💬 📧 15:27, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that the mass creation of articles with boiler plate text and that fail GNG and SNG should be merged into the main articles about the city/country/state. If small factoids are the only variation between a number of articles then these factoids can merged into a main article. The rationale that these mass produced articles are for the public interest is not part of Wikipedia's guidelines and policies.

Also, other Government Organizations without notable references, which Gardenkur noticed, is not relevant to this discussion. We are talking about the articles that Gardenkur is mass producing that fail WP:NOTINDISCRIMINATE as well as GNG and SNGs. Additionally, references that do not specifically cover the topic of the article do not indicate notability for the topic. ---Steve Quinn (talk) 21:27, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'm afraid I can't agree with @Atsme that it's appropriate for NPP to push for the merging of the huge number of existing articles on local authorities, including in the Indian context the hundreds if not thousands of articles on taluks, mandals and panchayats. Steve Quinn has a point that for want of sources a new article on a local authority could be better merged, as can be decided case by case by individual NPP reviewers, but in light of the strong existing precedent for local authority articles anything more prescriptive than that may be too wide a subject to be decided on someone's talk page. Be aware please also that WikiProject India have already discussed Gardenkur's contributions - may need to take that into account. Ingratis (talk) 06:27, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Agree that big decisions can't be made at my talk page. Reasons why it's here at the moment: 1. This is where I was conversing with the editor. 2. I was looking to get some extra guidance and asked for it at NPP. 3. This pssibly might convince/guide @Gardenkur: to self-implement a new direction. On the other hand one could argue that we aren't making any big decision, we're just implementing what has already been decided and written into the notability guidelines. Gardenkur, I that that any outcome (whether it's right here and now or through AFD's etc.) will be to say to put the small amount of unique material into the corresponding city article and to not have seperate articles for these types of entities. What do you think of that idea?

The alternative is that I might take a "test case" pair of these articles to AFD, request input elsewhere, and aske that it be kept open for 2-3 weeks to have a thorough discussion. North8000 (talk) 10:47, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

HI North8000. Nice to see you back again. I really thank your help and efforts in streamlining these articles. As I always said the reason to get these articles on Wikipedia is they are government organisations and public needs them for their help and concerns. I understand Wikipedia has notability clause which might not be met by some of them. However this will be a nice platform to source information in the days to come. If we mix organisations with cities the purpose will not be solved unable to incorporate their administrative information. Will wait for your inputs. Gardenkur (talk) 11:01, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'll probably do my described "test case" idea. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 11:08, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

North8000 please ping me or notify me on my talk page about the AfD when it happens. Thanks. Also, in the near future, it might be necessary to go to ANI regarding this issue because it seems Gardenkur is demonstrating WP:IDHT and seems uncooperative. Once again, public interest is not included in our guidelines and policies. ---Steve Quinn (talk) 13:34, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

HI Steve Quinn, North8000. First I offer my sincere apologies to both. I stopped creating articles on this. Request you to kindly give a chance and if it repeats you can take necessary action. I didnt do anything deliberately. Hope you both will excuse. Thanks again and looking forward to work with you both. Gardenkur (talk) 13:54, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Local election pages

I saw your comment at WP:Articles for deletion/1996 Chorley Borough Council election in response to doktorb's keep comment. I have no doubt about the verifiable nature of local election coverage, and I am actually sympathetic to the argument made - that Wikipedia can be a repository for all of the (verifiable) information (about local politics). The standard for events, as you mentioned is WP:Notability (events), but local politics (especially local elections) does not neatly fit within the overall guidelines - GNG can easily be met (especially in jurisdictions with a local paper), elections have consequences (lasting effects)... I do agree that there are some elements of elections that cut the other way too (especially the national or international impact of a local election). But, the question in my mind is how much of a transformation exists if Wikipedia does become the go-to source for information about elections (again since the information is verifiable)? Does it help the global audience if Wikipedia is a repository for election results (even with a minimum of context)? Is Wikipedia harmed by being a repository of this type of "stats-only" election coverage (I see election results as fundamentally different from sporting statistics or economic data)? I don't know. Thank you for starting the discussion. --Enos733 (talk) 14:48, 28 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the post. First I'll start by listing my main thoughts and motivations in these areas:

With my NPP hat on, I'd like to get some guidance on these. Having a thorough discussion that we can link to or possibly list at wp:common outcomes would be at least some help on this
I consider a "Stats only" article to be a type of list article. There's very little wp:notability/wp:not guidance given regarding list articles and I'd like to see more guidance there developed.

I personally don't go by the "what would be the harm done?" criteria. We already have "Wikipedia except with no selectivity"; it's called the internet. :-) A big part of Wikipiedia's value (and desirability for people wanting to get "their thing" into it) is it's selectivity. So somebody with something that is non-notable wants to get into that spot which is prime only because because non-notable stuff is exluded. Sort of like the smoker who wants to smoke in a nice fresh- smelling area......the non-smoking section. :-)

Now, on to my opinion your core question. If we were talking about maybe 50,000 of the most notable of individual elections having such an article, I think it would be a plus. A criteria which would encompass 5,000,000 or 100,000,000 potential election articles, not.

Thanks again for writing. North8000 (talk) 15:56, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

IMO creation of too many non-wp:notable articles

Hi North8000. Hope you are keeping fine. Thanks for your detailed suggestion. I had started reading the guidelines and will continue even if I get experience later, so that I dont miss them. However, believe me when I start any article, first I find in Wikipedia whether the article exists and secondly to find reliable secondary sources for all of them to get notability. A lot of hard work goes in writing each article to understand the context and rephrase them as per Wikipedia standards. I feel disappointed if some of them are deleted or redirected. But I observed the percentage of mine is less compared to few of them. Currently I stopped writing articles on Government organisations I leave it to you to decide if you want me to continue. Half of my articles which were deleted went through discussion and they were not deleted because they didnt meet notability criteria. Secondly those which were redirected were due to delay from my side to add more content at a later stage. I dont want to annoy you as I am looking forward to work with you in this platform and want to move forward under your guidance. If at any time you have any guidance for me please feel free to share and I would be obliged. Thanking you. Yours sincerely. Gardenkur (talk) 12:28, 29 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the post. The main guidance that I can offer is what I put on your talk page. But for emphasis, for the 1-2 sources required for wp:notability, "reliable secondary" isn't enough. They also need to be independent of the topic and have in-depth coverage of the topic of the article. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 13:38, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

Hi North8000. Hope you are keeping fine. I see that you have placed my articles in Articles for Deletion discussion page. I respect your decision. However, if this procedure is followed that all articles irrespective of whether they meet Wikipedia standards will be nominated for deletion. During my editing experience I saw many government bodies dont meet Wikipedia standards. Also they are not structured properly. I did it to get uniformity and efficiency in these articles. Can I request you to move them to draft stage so that I can polish them. I respect your decision in all ways. Thank you. Gardenkur (talk) 23:34, 30 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Air Force Common Admission Test,Central Airmen Selection Board,Appellate Tribunal for Electricity,Ayurveda Retreat,Central Airmen Selection Board, Indian Renewable Energy Development Agency Limited,Securities Appellate Tribunal,Central Government Industrial Tribunal.

Hi North8000. Thanks for your time and efforts in reviewing these pages. Looking forward to work with you. Gardenkur (talk) 02:47, 30 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Query

Hello, North8000,

I was at Gardenkur's talk page and noticed that you were responsible for reviewing all of their new article creations, some of which have had problems. I just deleted an article they created about a fellow whose only notability is that he waits in line for other people for a living. On the talk page, there were dozens of notices from you.

Is this just "luck of the draw" or do you specifically try to review their work? It seemed like a strange coincidence to have the same reviewer evaluating all of their articles and pronouncing them "Good work". At this point, I'm just curious about this as I don't know the procedures that New Page Reviewers work by. Thanks for any explanation you can provide. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 04:58, 30 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Liz: Thanks for your vigilance. First background and then specific. For a multitude of reasons, NPP pretty much has to confine itself to "should/can this be a separate article?" questions without even getting into the broader "does it have problems"? question (which most new articles do) Overall, most NPP decisions revolve around wp:notability which is a big fuzzy ecosystem with the main guidelines being core but not the totality. When I review try to go by the "standard/norm". Lately NPP has been drowning/breaking down in a backlog, and even trying to keep even requires the more active page reviewers to each average completing reviews on about 50 articles per day in their available wikiminutes that they can devote to NPP. Recently someone at NPP patrol started a new report that lists unreviewed articles by editor and I started to look at the biggest groups and I decided that it would be efficient to deal with the blocks of near-identical articles that are in the biggest groups. After doing some easy ones I ran across Gardenkur's with about 120 new unreviewed articles. Long story short, I saw maybe 10 that could pass by the norms and 110 that probably need to get deleted. I opened up a sort of notice and dialog with Gardenkur and also asked at NPP for more thoughts from other NPP'ers (see above, starting with "Articles on departments/authorities within cities" a few posts back on this talk page for that dialog, since Gardenkur always responds on my talk page, I moved/kept it here to avoid splitting) and they agreed to stop making the "110" type of articles. So I recently went through the 120 and found 10 which I think could pass by the norms and reviewed them. Between liking to post complimentary messages for creators and and as possible solace for what's next, I posted such messages on their talk page. Those "10" are probably what you formed your current impression from. My next step (which I'm still doing more analysis on, particularly geography/cities/governmental boundaries in India) is that I probably need to get about 110 of Gardenkur's articles deleted. North8000 (talk)

Hello, North8000,

I was going to ask you about all of these articles that you moved to Draft space and came upon this message to you which I had posted yesterday. I think Draftifying all of those 90+ pages (which I'm sure took a big chunk of your time) was a good move. Usually editors who create articles this quickly get themselves into trouble with experienced editors who don't have much patience for this kind of conduct so I'm glad you have started a discussion with them about their work. There is no hurry to creating articles so if they could focus on quality, not quantity, it would benefit them as an editor and the project as a whole.

I also posted a notice on their talk page as they were doing some knee-jerk reverting of IP edits which can be a concern with new editors. I think they don't want the possible antagonism of reverting a registered editor (who might complain) and IPs are seen as likely vandals even though most are just regular editors like you and me. Thank you for extending your hand and guiding them through this phase of their editing career. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 00:30, 2 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

A barnstar for you!

	The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
	I think it's about time I passed some gratitude your way. I keep seeing your name popping up in AfD and AfC places, and I note the kindness and care in how you approach things and I thank you for that. CT55555 (talk) 17:38, 30 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@CT55555: Thanks! I try North8000 (talk) 17:40, 30 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

New Town Kolkata Development Authority (NKDA) and others moved to draft space

Hi North8000. Thanks for your time and efforts and honouring my request. Will follow as you guide or let me know how to proceed. Nice to work with you. Gardenkur (talk) 11:33, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'd be happy to do that. North8000 (talk) 11:34, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

Hi North8000. With your hard work done moving my articles to draft space for which Iam really obliged and if you guide me I will start working in these articles to make them productive under your guidance. Also as suggested by Mccapra were followed by me but somewhere the gap was felt by them and I will follow and correct it now onwards. Thanks and looking forward to work with you. Gardenkur (talk) 06:30, 2 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Gardenkur: May I create a separate page in your user space for that purpose so that it will not get lost in your very active talk page? North8000 (talk) 14:41, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

Hi North8000. You are my mentor so whatever you say I will obey. You dont need to ask me. Just command me and I will follow. Don't know if my appreciations would be accepted in Wikipedia or I would have given lots of Barnstars for you. Thanks again. Gardenkur (talk) 14:48, 2 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Draftifications

I dropped by to thank you for working with Gardenkur to try and get them to change their approach to article creation. I had a go last year, moved a bunch of their articles to draft and then moved them back to mainspace after they’d done more work in them. I thought they’d got the point but looking at their recent creations, clearly not. Maybe you’ll make better progress. They could be a really productive editor if they can get away from this gamified approach. Good luck! Mccapra (talk) 13:12, 1 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Mccapra: Thanks. This time they are a part of the agreement to move to draft space which included them discussing with me the first few that they bring back. They seem to welcome the guidance. We'll see how it goes. North8000 (talk) 13:17, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but have they actually worked on improving those draftified articles at all? Currently seems to be starting a new "series" of articles on academic qualifications Diploma (India), Bachelor of Architecture (India), Bachelor of Sowa Rigpa Medicine and Surgery (BSRMS) (India) -- contain way too much unencyclopedic detail. Don't see why the first two can't just be covered in Diploma / Bachelor of Architecture respectively, and the latter mentioned in Traditional Tibetan medicine.

—2406:3003:2077:1E60:C998:20C6:8CCF:5730 (talk) 16:23, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the post. My current involvement with Gardenkur is these two things:

They'll consult me before bringing any of that set of articles out of draft
I'm working on teaching them a few things that I've selected as being of particular importance.

I really can't speak for anything outside of that. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 17:06, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Fair enough. Thanks, —2406:3003:2077:1E60:C998:20C6:8CCF:5730 (talk) 17:52, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment

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Chorley Borough Council election AfD

Hi, I didn't want to clutter up the AfD, but wanted to let you know how much I agree with the sentiment of your last comment. That the AfD, by being discussed properly, might help us to sort out what we want to do for future local elections. That was, in fact, why I replied to the AfD as a lengthy comment without expressing keep or delete. I would actually delete the Chorley Borough Council article because it's only statistics and the election doesn't seem to have been anything out of the ordinary. I don't think Wikipedia has a duty to mirror all the public statistics needed for democratic openness; we're an encyclopaedia, not a government database. If the election had been of nation-wide political significance, or stood out in some exceptional way, I'd happily have an article. The problem about local elections is obvious: they are rather boring things that happen very frequently and often without any exceptional consequence or long-term meaning, and yet they will always generate a decent amount of reliable press content at the time. So a case can always be made that they're notable, even if there's really nothing to write about. It does need clarification. Elemimele (talk) 17:26, 3 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Elemimele: Thanks for the post. I definitely agree that "stats only" articles are not suitable for Wikipedia. I this case I think that it has to be taken in the context of combining wp:notability and wp:not. While humans are good at dealing with a combination of two different considerations and Wikipedia tacitly acknowledges that process in many way, it fails to explicitly acknowledge it leaving a typical AFD to try to based on just one. "Stats only" is an indicator of failure to provide GNG type sources. This is the overall standard although the afd process side "prove a negative dow not follow that. Because I wanted to help get this sorted out (rather than seek a particular outcome I picked this as an edge case regarding the size/scope of the entity covered by the election. Thanks again. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 21:13, 3 July 2022 (UTC)

Election articles

The thread on NPP got archived, so leaving this here. Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/2004_Salt_Lake_County_Council_election was a keep with minimal participation while Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/2002_Salt_Lake_County_Council_election was no consensus, also with little participation. It looks like Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/1996 Chorley Borough Council election is going be no consensus or delete. More confirmation that AFD is inconsistent and just depends on who shows up to a particular discussion. MB 04:11, 7 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@MB: Thanks for pointing the others out. My goal on the latter was/is to get one with much more extensive discussion and debate and a thorough close which might help guide us on these. And the fact that this one might be a "middle of the road" case might make it mores useful in that respect. Someday we should probably have an organized RFC but (for this type of case) it would be difficult to handle well unless we acknowledge that decisions are and should be made by combining multiple considerations together. In this case, degree of compliance with with wp:not / the degree of encyclopedicness and wp:notability. When it works well (in the current fuzzy system) it's usually called a wp:notability decision, but in fact influenced/calibrated by the other considerations. I think that you recognized the wp:not aspect in your nominations but the discussion showed that trying to treat this type as only stand-alone wp:not (which would only deal with clear-cut violations of stand-alone wp:not) doesn't work out. Perhaps we should have an rfc which acknowledges the interplay/combination of considerations. BTW your post triggered me to go write this at the Chorley one. North8000 (talk) 12:58, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

Invitation to join the Ten Year Society

Dear North8000,

I'd like to extend a cordial invitation to you to join the Ten Year Society, an informal group for editors who've been participating in the Wikipedia project for ten years or more.

Best regards, Jax 0677 (talk) 15:42, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

July 2022

Hello. It appears your talk page is becoming quite lengthy and is in need of archiving. According to Wikipedia's user talk page guidelines: "Large talk pages are difficult to read and load slowly over slow connections. As a rule of thumb, archive closed discussions when a talk page exceeds 75 KB or has multiple resolved or stale discussions." – this talk page is 371.7 KB. See Help:Archiving a talk page for instructions on how to manually archive your talk page, or to arrange for automatic archiving using a bot. If you have any questions, place a {{help me}} notice on your talk page, or go to the help desk. Thank you. Jax 0677 (talk) 15:42, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'll trim it down. Not to 75 KB which sounds unnecessarily microscopic but I'll trim this down to substantially smaller than it is. North8000 (talk) 17:44, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

Requesting some draft improvement help

Greetings @ North8000,

I tend to help out and promote draft and article expansions. same time English not being native language I need to seek help in language related areas.

I had helped out an article Draft:Ex-Muslim activism in Kerala but linguistic part is beyond my capacity. Requesting your visit and help in improving the article if topic interests you.

Thanks and warm regards

Bookku, 'Encyclopedias = expanding information & knowledge' (talk) 13:24, 11 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Bookku: I never have enough wiki-minutes but I'll try to help where I can. I took a look. The English there isn't bad, but has an overall problem is that it is written in a conversational tone way, like somebody noticing things and talking about them rather than written in an enclyclpedia / summary form type way. Also the lead needs to be a summary of what's in the article. The lead there is more of an introduction via noting a few items. I'll make a few tweaks there but this will need more work than I will be able to do. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 12:59, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

May be I work as much to get out of copyright but impact of tone and style of the sources remains indirectly on my writing because writing is influenced by sources. I do not know how to get out of it. Any ways many thanks for your valuable inputs and possible help.

Thanks and warm regards

Bookku, 'Encyclopedias = expanding information & knowledge' (talk) 14:21, 18 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Feedback request: History and geography request for comment

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Thanks for the list revert

Hi, thanks for pointing out the weakness in my first attempt to address notability as an optional requirement for stand alone lists. At the source venue I have boldly floated new text to address your excellent observation. Please check it out. If you want to revert that's fine, but please consider this post as a prior request for an explanation how you think the text I used flies in the face of current practice...... because my goal is to more clearly describe current practice. If we see it differently, that's fine, let's work together to figure out where ambiguity has crept in, and work together to purge it with clarity. NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 20:10, 19 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@NewsAndEventsGuy: Thanks for the post. Your new version does not have that major change embedded it it and so that solves the main problem. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 20:38, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

Gotta love BRD! Thanks for the input. NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 03:09, 20 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Articles in Draft section to be prepared for main space

Hi North8000. Hope you are well. Last few days i was not well for some time and rest of the days spent in reading guidelines you created in new user space. Now planning to clean my draft space under your guidance. Kindly guide me how to proceed. Thanks in advance. Gardenkur (talk) 03:41, 1 August 2022 (UTC) @Gardenkur:[reply]

How about you pick one of the articles and then we review and analyze it together? North8000 (talk) 12:33, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Hi North8000. Thanks a lot for your reply. My gratitude for your support too. Sure will do accordingly. Will pick up articles of government organisations of major cities first. In the background will keep adding more direct references for government organisations of other cities. Hope that works. Sincere thanks again. Gardenkur (talk) 14:11, 2 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hi North8000. Can you help review this article.Thanks. Gardenkur (talk) 14:34, 2 August 2022 (UTC) Draft:New Town Kolkata Development Authority (NKDA)[reply]

Sorry to ask this, but I think it would help if we dealt with 2 Development Authority articles at the same time. Could you pick a 2nd Development Authority article? North8000 (talk) 17:54, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

I shouldn’t have to tell you not to use edit summaries to attack other editors

But it seems I do. Doug Weller talk 18:00, 3 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

You beat me to it by seconds. North8000: you know better. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 18:01, 3 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I shouldn't have to tell you to not make false accusations of "attacking" North8000 (talk) 18:03, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

New Page Patrol newsletter August 2022

Hello North8000,

Backlog status

After the last newsletter (No.28, June 2022), the backlog declined another 1,000 to 13,000 in the last week of June. Then the July backlog drive began, during which 9,900 articles were reviewed and the backlog fell by 4,500 to just under 8,500 (these numbers illustrate how many new articles regularly flow into the queue). Thanks go to the coordinators Buidhe and Zippybonzo, as well as all the nearly 100 participants. Congratulations to Dr vulpes who led with 880 points. See this page for further details.

Unfortunately, most of the decline happened in the first half of the month, and the backlog has already risen to 9,600. Understandably, it seems many backlog drive participants are taking a break from reviewing and unfortunately, we are not even keeping up with the inflow let alone driving it lower. We need the other 600 reviewers to do more! Please try to do at least one a day.

Coordination: MB and Novem Linguae have taken on some of the coordination tasks. Please let them know if you are interested in helping out. MPGuy2824 will be handling recognition, and will be retroactively awarding the annual barnstars that have not been issued for a few years.

Open letter to the WMF: The Page Curation software needs urgent attention. There are dozens of bug fixes and enhancements that are stalled (listed at Suggested improvements). We have written a letter to be sent to the WMF and we encourage as many patrollers as possible to sign it here. We are also in negotiation with the Board of Trustees to press for assistance. Better software will make the active reviewers we have more productive.

TIP - Reviewing by subject: Reviewers who prefer to patrol new pages by their most familiar subjects can do so from the regularly updated sorted topic list.

New reviewers: The NPP School is being underused. The learning curve for NPP is quite steep, but a detailed and easy-to-read tutorial exists, and the Curation Tool's many features are fully described and illustrated on the updated page here.

Reminders

Consider staying informed on project issues by putting the project discussion page on your watchlist.
If you have noticed a user with a good understanding of Wikipedia notability and deletion, suggest they help the effort by placing {{subst:NPR invite}} on their talk page.
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To opt-out of future mailings, please remove yourself here.

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Feedback request: Wikipedia policies and guidelines request for comment

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NPP discussions

Hi, on the activity requirement, could you clarify if you support/oppose/or are neutral in saying a reviewer must be active at least once in a year at NPP? Looking to establish consensus.

Also, on the Backlog count, you said it was an important template on wanted it back on top (which I did). Do you have a comment on the update frequency. No one else has expressed a desire to have it restored to 15 minute updating. Thanks. MB 23:57, 9 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@MB: Certainly! I did both. North8000 (talk) 14:56, 10 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Feedback request: History and geography request for comment

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Done. North8000 (talk) 14:38, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

NPP message

Hi North8000,

Invitation

For those who may have missed it in our last newsletter, here's a quick reminder to see the letter we have drafted, and if you support it, do please go ahead and sign it. If you already signed, thanks. Also, if you haven't noticed, the backlog has been trending up lately; all reviews are greatly appreciated.

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Done. North8000 (talk) 14:35, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

Feedback request: History and geography request for comment

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Assault weapon

Is there any particular reason why you accepted this change? Regards, AzureCitizen (talk) 18:05, 19 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@AzureCitizen: I originally missed this because you put it on my user page....I just moved it here. The literal answer is because it met the pending changes criteria. To use an example to emphasize that point, I've often accepted an edit under pending changes criteria and then then immediately reverted it for other reasons. North8000 (talk) 11:03, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

Ooops, I thought I was posting on your Talk Page at the time, sorry! I left that note because I was surprised to see a change like that accepted; I figure it's easier to reject the change outright during the approval/disapproval process. No worries in any event. Regards, AzureCitizen (talk) 13:42, 25 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@AzureCitizen: Yes, the pending changes thing is often misunderstood. The criteria for that is basically just "not vandalism".North8000 (talk) 12:06, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

NPP Award for 2020

		The New Page Reviewer's Iron Award
		For over 360 article reviews during 2020. Thank you for patrolling new pages and helping us out with the backlog! -MPGuy2824 (talk) 02:54, 25 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Here is a barnstar to show appreciation for the NPP reviews you did back in 2020. We realize this is late, but NPP fell behind in some coordination activities. We are just getting caught up. If you don't want to receive "old" barnstars, please just ignore this and reply (with a ping) to let us know not to send you any more. -MPGuy2824 (talk) 02:54, 25 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@MPGuy2824: Thanks!North8000 (talk) 11:06, 25 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment

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Done. North8000 (talk) 21:46, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 15:36, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

Done

Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment

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Done. North8000 (talk) 14:52, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

Feedback request: Media, the arts, and architecture request for comment

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Title deletion

You post message in my talk and now I contact you. Title Giottiline Ginko is no sense car's name because it does not made: exact title is Giotti Victoria Ginko sourced by me. Wrong title deletion needed and I moved linked articles too: in this moment no article is linked at "Giottiline Ginko". Ciao Staiolone (talk) 05:23, 9 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Done by user:Reaper Eternal, ok--Staiolone (talk) 05:30, 9 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

???? North8000 (talk) 16:37, 12 September 2022 (UTC)

Discussion at Talk:2023 Nigerian general election § Requested move 13 September 2022

You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:2023 Nigerian general election § Requested move 13 September 2022. Watercheetah99 (talk) 19:12, 15 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

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Happy Thirteenth First Edit Day!

Hey, North8000. I'd like to wish you a wonderful First Edit Day on behalf of the Wikipedia Birthday Committee!
Have a great day! Chris Troutman (talk) 14:49, 16 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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It Was a Home

Hey North, hope all is well with you, and thanks for all you do on the project, especially NPP. I came across an oddity while reviewing today. On 3 articles, you left a message of encouragement for the article's creator (something I need to do more of). And in all 3, you made the comment, "I marked it as reviewed". However, none of the articles was marked reviewed, and I checked the log to make sure that another editor hadn't unreviewed them, but did not see it. The last one was this article. I'm not sure you know, but when you leave a message, you also have to mark it reviewed. I thought that if you left a message, it automatically marked it reviewed, but it doesn't. Regardless, just thought I'd let you know. Keep up your fine efforts. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 13:43, 23 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Onel5969: Thanks for the post. I do know that. Most likely I just screwed up and forgot to mark. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 17:55, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

October 2022 New Pages Patrol backlog drive

New Page Patrol \| October 2022 backlog drive
On 1 October, a one-month backlog drive for New Page Patrol will begin. Barnstars will be awarded based on the number of articles patrolled and for maintaining a streak throughout the drive. Barnstars will also be awarded for re-reviewing articles. Redirect patrolling is not part of the drive. Sign up here!
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Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

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Done North8000 (talk) 18:20, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

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The Signpost: 30 September 2022

News and notes: Board vote results, bot's big GET, crat chat gives new mop, WMF seeks "sound logo" and "organizer lab"

In focus: NPP: Still heaven or hell for new users – and for the reviewers

In the media: A few complaints and mild disagreements

Special report: Decentralized Fundraising, Centralized Distribution

Discussion report: Much ado about Fox News

Interview: ScottishFinnishRadish's Request for Adminship

Opinion: Are we ever going to reach consensus?

Serendipity: Removing watermarks, copyright signs and cigarettes from photos

Recent research: How readers assess Wikipedia's trustworthiness, and how they could in the future

Traffic report: Kings and queens and VIPs

Featured content: Farm-fresh content

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CommonsComix: CommonsComix 2: Paulus Moreelse

From the archives: 5, 10, and 15 Years ago: September 2022

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Some bubble tea for you!

Your comment in favour of maintaining the article's accuracy on assault weapon is greatly appreciated.

Thank you very much. Riverbend21 (talk) 04:18, 1 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Riverbend21: Thanks. Being informative and accurate is our mission. North8000 (talk) 09:24, 1 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Administrators' newsletter – October 2022

News and updates for administrators from the past month (September 2022).

Administrator changes

ScottishFinnishRadish

Staxringold

Ahoerstemeier (deceased) • Ched

Interface administrator changes

Cyberpower678

CheckUser changes

GorillaWarfare

Guideline and policy news

Following an RfC, consensus was found that if the rationale for a block depends on information that is not available to all administrators, that information should be sent to the Arbitration Committee, a checkuser or an oversighter for action (as applicable, per ArbCom's recent updated guidance) instead of the administrator making the block.
Following an RfC, consensus has been found that, in the context of politics and science, the reliability of FoxNews.com is unclear and that additional considerations apply to its use.
Community comment on the revised Universal Code of Conduct enforcement guidelines is requested until 8 October.

Technical news

The Articles for creation helper script now automatically recognises administrator accounts which means your name does not need to be listed at WP:AFCP to help out. If you wish to help out at AFC, enable AFCH by navigating to Preferences → Gadgets and checking the "Yet Another AfC Helper Script" box.

Arbitration

Remedy 8.1 of the Muhammad images case will be rescinded 1 November following a motion.
A modification to the deletion RfC remedy in the Conduct in deletion-related editing case has been made to reaffirm the independence of the RfC and allow the moderators to split the RfC in two.
The second phase of the 2021-22 Discretionary Sanctions Review closes 3 October.

Miscellaneous

An administrator's account was recently compromised. Administrators are encouraged to check that their passwords are secure, and reminded that ArbCom reserves the right to not restore adminship in cases of poor account security. You can also use two-factor authentication (2FA) to provide an extra level of security.
Self-nominations for the electoral commission for the 2022 Arbitration Committee elections open 2 October and close 8 October.
You are invited to comment on candidates in the 2022 CUOS appointments process.
An RfC is open to discuss whether to make Vector 2022 the default skin on desktop.
Tech tip: You can do a fuzzy search of all deleted page titles at Special:Undelete.

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Feedback requests from the Feedback Request Service

Your feedback is requested at Talk:Russian political jokes on a "Politics, government, and law" request for comment, and at Talk:The Avengers (2012 film) on a "All RFCs" request for comment, and at Talk:List of All Elite Wrestling personnel on a "Biographies" request for comment. Thank you for helping out!
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Question, new page search

Hi North8000, you did the New Page Review of the article Robert Searight. Thank you for this message you left on my talk page. I have a question, why doesn't the page show in a google search? It doesn't come up when I search for "Wikipedia Robert Searight". Thanks in advance. Bammesk (talk) 03:26, 11 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Bammesk: Sorry I was gone for a while. I rechecked and the article has been marked as reviewed. This should allow indexing for search engines. Beyond that I really don't know, Perhaps you could ask at village pump technical. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 17:37, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

Feedback request: History and geography request for comment

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Feedback request: History and geography request for comment

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New Page Patrol newsletter October 2022

Hello North8000,

Much has happened since the last newsletter over two months ago. The open letter finished with 444 signatures. The letter was sent to several dozen people at the WMF, and we have heard that it is being discussed but there has been no official reply. A related article appears in the current issue of The Signpost. If you haven't seen it, you should, including the readers' comment section.

Awards: Barnstars were given for the past several years (thanks to MPGuy2824), and we are now all caught up. The 2021 cup went to John B123 for leading with 26,525 article reviews during 2021. To encourage moderate activity, a new "Iron" level barnstar is awarded annually for reviewing 360 articles ("one-a-day"), and 100 reviews earns the "Standard" NPP barnstar. About 90 reviewers received barnstars for each of the years 2018 to 2021 (including the new awards that were given retroactively). All awards issued for every year are listed on the Awards page. Check out the new Hall of Fame also.

Software news: Novem Linguae and MPGuy2824 have connected with WMF developers who can review and approve patches, so they have been able to fix some bugs, and make other improvements to the Page Curation software. You can see everything that has been fixed recently here. The reviewer report has also been improved.

Suggestions:

There is much enthusiasm over the low backlog, but remember that the "quality and depth of patrolling are more important than speed".
Reminder: an article should not be tagged for any kind of deletion for a minimum of 15 minutes after creation and it is often appropriate to wait an hour or more. (from the NPP tutorial)
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Backlog:

Saving the best for last: From a July low of 8,500, the backlog climbed back to 11,000 in August and then reversed in September dropping to below 6,000 and continued falling with the October backlog drive to under 1,000, a level not seen in over four years. Keep in mind that there are 2,000 new articles every week, so the number of reviews is far higher than the backlog reduction. To keep the backlog under a thousand, we have to keep reviewing at about half the recent rate!

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Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

Your feedback is requested at Talk:War crimes in the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine on a "All RFCs" request for comment. Thank you for helping out!
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Done. North8000 (talk) 20:33, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

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The Signpost: 31 October 2022

From the team: A new goose on the roost

News and notes: Wikipedians question Wikimedia fundraising ethics after "somewhat-viral" tweet

News from the WMF: Governance updates from, and for, the Wikimedia Endowment

In the media: Scribing, searching, soliciting, spying, and systemic bias

Disinformation report: From Russia with WikiLove

Recent research: Disinformatsiya: Much research, but what will actually help Wikipedia editors?

Interview: Isabelle Belato on their Request for Adminship

Featured content: Topics, lists, submarines and Gurl.com

Serendipity: We all make mistakes – don’t we?

Traffic report: Mama, they're in love with a criminal

From the archives: Paid advocacy, a lawsuit over spelling mistakes, deleting Jimbo's article, and the death of Toolserver

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Administrators' newsletter – November 2022

News and updates for administrators from the past month (October 2022).

Administrator changes

- Isabelle Belato
- Whpq

Interface administrator changes

CheckUser changes

Oversight changes

DGG

Guideline and policy news

The article creation at scale RfC opened on 3 October and will be open until at least 2 November.
An RfC is open to discuss having open requests for adminship automatically placed on hold after the seven-day period has elapsed, pending closure or other action by a bureaucrat.

Arbitration

Eligible editors are invited to self-nominate themselves from 13 November 2022 until 22 November 2022 to stand in the 2022 Arbitration Committee elections.
The arbitration case request titled Athaenara has been resolved by motion.
The arbitration case Reversal and reinstatement of Athaenara's block has entered the proposed decision stage.
AmandaNP, Mz7 and Cyberpower678 have been appointed to the Electoral Commission for the 2022 Arbitration Committee Elections. Xaosflux and Dr vulpes are reserve commissioners.

Miscellaneous

The 2022 CheckUser and Oversight appointments process has concluded with the appointment of two new CheckUsers.
You can add yourself to the centralised page listing time zones of administrators.
Tech tip: Wikimarkup in a block summary is parsed in the notice that the blockee sees. You can use templates with custom options to specify situations like {{rangeblock|create=yes}} or {{uw-ublock|contains profanity}}.

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:23, 1 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Latest

Feel free to take a look at my latest on Assault Weapon if you have a moment. TY — Moops ^⋠T⋡ 14:30, 1 November 2022 (UTC) {Ping|Moops}}I think that your changes were good. North8000 (talk) 18:14, 1 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Advice on lists that should be deleted or merged

North, I know we have not agreed in the past on the subject about lists where I have fought hard to keep material most of the time, but I have finally had a personal encounter with some stuff that I think you might normally complain about, and I'm not sure what to do for several reasons because I don't want to go through and nominate each one for fear of someone accusing me of being a mass deletionist for one thing, and for a couple of other reasons, I'm actually pretty sure they count as notable, but I just know they don't belong here as articles, so I don't know what reason to use for deletion that will convince the community to agree with me. Another issue I have is that when I looked at the [What links here] it looks like many articles depend on linking to some of these lists so I'm not even sure if they should be deleted just because I don't have a good feeling about them. Also pinging my past mentors @Betty Logan and @SMcCandlish to assist. Thank you all for helping me on my Wikipedia journey. Any advice would be appreciated. The lists in question are:

I noticed that one of these lists seemed like maybe it was merged into another article, so maybe that is a possible alternative solution to deletion about the fact that so many articles depend on linking to these lists:

List of actors who have played Elvis Presley

Huggums537 (talk) 15:13, 1 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Not something I know much about, but I agree these don't seem to be encyclopedic topics, but rather articles of borderline-WP:INDISCRIMINATE trivia. Per WP:PERFCAT, we don't even create categories for actor-by-role or actor-by-subgenre, so I can't imagine we'd keep articles of them. The last on the list above might be mergeable into Spaghetti western. Maybe some of the others can merge to specific character articles. Dunno what to do with the president one. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 16:16, 1 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, thanks. I'm aware of the process for nominating deletions, but is there also a process where I can nominate these merges as well? Huggums537 (talk) 16:25, 1 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Nevermind, I haven't been to AfD in a long while. I just took a look and remembered that I can nominate merges there. Huggums537 (talk) 17:14, 1 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Either way, just to clarify, my main interest an involvement is that I think that more guidance / criteria for lists should be developed and that it should become a bit more organized vs. totally scattered as it is now. Especially given the infinite number of compound list articles that should be created. I think that the only time we've disagree is via your reversion of my addition of: "There should be a reasonable expectation that readers will seek to see that particular grouping and selection of list items." — Preceding unsigned comment added by North8000 (talk • contribs) 18:11, 01 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

What do you mean "compound list articles"? Like lists that need to be merged with other lists or something? Huggums537 (talk) 22:30, 1 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Also, I forgot about that disagreement, and it feels rather embarrassing to have gone back and read it again with my current feelings about these lists being rather subjective, which is exactly what I said my concerns were in that discussion. It's hard not being hypocrite on Wikipedia when your own comments come back to haunt you. 😆 Huggums537 (talk) 22:55, 1 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I should have been clearer and said compound criteria list articles. Those with two more more criteria. For example, list of blue-eyed movie actors that performed in 1920's horror films. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 01:53, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

Yeah, well given that I have now run into those lists I just mentioned above, I'm starting to see your point a little bit better these days... 😁 Huggums537 (talk) 02:57, 2 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Merges are normally just proposed and listed at WP:PAM, not taken to AfD. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 07:14, 2 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, I had no idea about that. Thanks very much! Huggums537 (talk) 14:13, 2 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

What do you now think about addition of ""There should be a reasonable expectation that readers will seek to see that particular grouping and selection of list items."? North8000 (talk) 14:56, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

I don't disagree with it, but am not sure where you propose adding it. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 18:28, 2 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Smc, he already added this, but then I reverted it and had a little disagreement with him on the talk page and it got put back in, and so I think he was directing that question at me, but since he has asked, I think it is a reasonable addition and it makes a lot more sense to me now than it did back then. Huggums537 (talk) 05:11, 3 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'll go look for it. I think that it was on a MOS page. Sounds like not the "main" place but there is no main place for lists. North8000 (talk) 11:40, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

I skimmed through it the other day. Here it is: Wikipedia_talk:Stand-alone_lists/Archive_11#Appropriate_topics_for_lists Huggums537 (talk) 12:21, 3 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Kind of weird looking back at some of my past arguments now... Huggums537 (talk) 12:29, 3 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

And it wasn't even all that long ago! Huggums537 (talk) 12:31, 3 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Autopatrolled

How come you don't have this right? You should. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 16:02, 3 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Onel5969: Thanks for the post. The criteria seem sort of backwards. I would think that being experienced and signs that someone only makes new articles after careful deliberation would be a good criteria. But theirs includes that someone has created a large amount of new articles. So I asked and they said no. Maybe someday I'll think about being an admin. North8000 (talk) 16:17, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

New message from Chess

You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Roman Polanski § Second sentence of the lede paragraph. I'm leaving this notification as you've participated in previous discussions on this topic. Chess (talk) (please use {{reply to|Chess}} on reply) 17:48, 4 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment

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Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment

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Feedback Request: Folk band in Australia

Hi there, I'm an editing noob and am hoping to get some feedback on an article I drafted about an upcoming folk music band in Australia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Austral_(band) . Maybe you would be interested in commenting on it? 27.32.156.182 (talk) 00:25, 11 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@27.32.156.182: Long story short, you need to add 1-2 (preferably 2) sources that discuss the band in some depth. The sources don't \need to be prominent, but they do need to be published. Which means some degree of editorial control from the publication/site. If you have any more questions, I'd be happy to try and help/. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 19:26, 11 November 2022 (UTC)

Feedback request: Wikipedia proposals request for comment

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Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

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Done North8000 (talk) 16:48, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

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Draft:New Town Kolkata Development Authority (NKDA)

Hi North8000. Hope you are keeping well. Can you please review this article, as I added two additional references and let me know if its good to move to main space. If you have any suggestions for similar articles kindly let me know. Also I will add relevant references for similar articles for other cities and take your approval before moving them to main space. Thanks in advance. Gardenkur (talk) 13:16, 10 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Per our discussion above, I wanted to address 2 "development authority" articles at the same time. Could we do it that way......i.e. give me a link to a second one when you are ready? North8000 (talk) 14:47, 10 August 2022 (UTC) Added bolding 8/19/22. North8000 (talk) 19:21, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

Hi North8000. Sorry for the confusion earlier. You can review this development authority. Thanks. Gardenkur (talk) 03:43, 20 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hi North8000. Sorry for the reminder again as I added few more references to one more development authority. You can review this development authority. Thanks. Gardenkur

Hi North8000. Hope you are keeping as its been long time having seen any message from you. You can review this development authority. Thanks. Gardenkur

Hi North8000. Sure will do. Sorry saw the message late. Will do accordingly. Gardenkur (talk) 10:03, 18 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hi North8000. You can review this article too.Thanks. Gardenkur (talk) 07:09, 19 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hi North8000. You can review this article. Thanks. Gardenkur (talk) 11:54, 19 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Gardenkur: I mentioned another development authority article because I also wanted to deal with the commonalities. Do you have another development authority" one? Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 19:21, 19 August 2022 (UTC) North8000 (talk) 02:11, 20 August 2022 (UTC)

Hi North8000. Sorry to remind you. Can you please review above two development authority articles to move them to main space. Thanks. Gardenkur (talk) 00:31, 28 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hi North8000. Hope you are keeping fine as it has been some time since I saw your communication last. Sorry to remind you. If you kindly advise me on above articles which are in draft stage, I can slowly start moving them to main stage to clean my draft section. Thanks in advance. Gardenkur (talk) 02:20, 7 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I didn't realize that you had provided two development authority articles as I requested. Will do. North8000 (talk) 13:50, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

Recapping, @Gardenkur: the two development authority articles are: Draft:New Town Kolkata Development Authority (NKDA) and Draft:Nazira Development Authority. I'm starting the work now. North8000 (talk) 21:29, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

Hi North8000. Hope you are keeping well. It has been more than a month since I have submitted few articles for your review. Could you please complete it asap and let me know your feedback. Need to clean my draft space too or I will have many articles at a time to handle not to loose them out of draft. Thanks. Gardenkur (talk) 02:59, 7 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Gardenkur: I did a substantial amount of work looking at those two articles and then became so busy/buried in real life that I've not had any substantial time for Wikipedia, nor will I until approx October 24th. IMO I know what should happen on those, but it will take me about 1 hour that I don't have to politely and respectfully explain and support what I have to say, including with our differences in native languages. I could give you the short version now if you wish and describe it in more detail later if our wish. Those two articles are about 95% an exact copy of each other (and I think that this is probably the case with all of your development authority articles). And the "95%" which is copied between them is about development authorities in India in general, not about the the particular development authority which is the topic of the article. And for those two, the other 5% is basically trivial information about the specific development authority which probably shouldn't even be in Wikipedia. In my opinion what you should do is create a nice article about Development Authorities in India in general. And if you have some non-trivial information about the development authority in a particular city, you could put information into the article about that city. And then I'd suggest getting your other development authority articles in draft space deleted. You should not feel bad about not having a large quantity of articles created. I've had about 68,000 Wikipedia edits since 2009, about half of them in article space including taking one of them through Good Article, Featured Article and worldwide "article of the day". And I've only created about 20 new articles, with only about half of those being technically new articles. You are just getting started and have hundreds of new articles and I think are running into the inevitable issues from that and it would be good for you to make the adjustment in your approach. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 12:04, 7 October 2022 (UTC)

Hi North8000. Thanks for your detailed reply with guidance and sorry for disturbing you in middle of your issues. In such case can we redirect respective development authorities not confirming to notability to those cities. In this case if anyone wants information or is creating new articles on that name later, can see it as available in this platform. I have created these initially to update unique information for each authority as History, Chairman,location of office,email and website to reach them as informational tool to public. Iam sure in future someone will keep creating them. Thanks again. Gardenkur (talk) 12:23, 7 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Gardenkur: I'd support and help in that plan. Just clarifying, right now we're only talking about the development authority articles. Again, I'll be mostly off wiki until October 24th. But we could start by you picking one of those articles and we could work through the details. Also, I'd probably ask for a 2nd opinion on the plan at NPP. And later do them all. North8000 (talk) 16:54, 7 October 2022 (UTC)

Hi North8000. Thanks for your support and opinion. We will proceed as you guide and do accordingly. Presently will post here all development authority of small towns and villages which doesnot have notability. Thanks again. Gardenkur (talk) 03:35, 8 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

November 2022 work

Hi North8000. Below are the few devekopment authorities of middle scale towns which you can review and redirect to respective towns or cities.

1. Nazira Development Authority Done (in late October) North8000 (talk) 18:31, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

2. Jorhat Development authority Done North8000 (talk) 18:25, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

3. Sivasagar Development Authority Done North8000 (talk) 18:37, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

4. Tinsukia Development Authority Done North8000 (talk) 18:41, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

5. Puttaparthy Urban Development Authority Done North8000 (talk) 18:51, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

The municipal corporations are larger administrative bodies than development authorities. Would prefer them for main space but will wait for your opinion.thanks. Gardenkur (talk) 12:30, 10 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hi North8000. Hope you are keeping well and back for review. When free request you to start the review process and guide me accordingly.Thanks. Gardenkur (talk) 12:19, 25 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Gardenkur: Thanks for the post. I'm back now and trying to catch up. I'll get started on those. Will take the first one as a test/example. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 15:44, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

@Gardenkur: I did one (New Town) to see how it goes. North8000 (talk) 17:54, 27 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Gardenkur: I also did Nazira North8000 (talk) 19:33, 27 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hi North8000. Thanks for giving a start on these articles. Will move as per your guidance. Gardenkur (talk) 22:09, 27 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Gardenkur:I'd also be happy to move them if you make a list. The one advantage is that I can immediately mark them as reviewed.North8000 (talk) 16:10, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

Hi North8000. Hope you are keeping well. Sorry for the delay in communication as I was busy in other activities. The below are the list of new articles for review from your side to move them to main space.

1.Imphal Municipal Corporation.

2.Shivamogga City Corporation.

3.Mathura Vrindavan Municipal Corporation.

4.Badangpet Municipal Corporation.

5.Moradabad Municipal Corporation.

7.Bettiah Municipal Corporation.

11.Tumakuru City Corporation.

12.Meerpet Municipal Corporation.

13.Gorakhpur Municipal Corporation.

14.Saharanpur Municipal Corporation.

15.Bareilly Municipal Corporation.

To clean my draft space I submit above articles for your review. You can review and decide as you feel appropriate.Thanks.Gardenkur (talk) 08:19, 17 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Gardenkur: So I think that the "development authority" should pretty clearly not be separate articles and I'll convert those to redirects. I will try to figure out / discuss with you what to do on the municipal corporation articles. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 17:52, 17 November 2022 (UTC)

Hi North8000. Thanks for your reply and also submit below articles as part of clean up process for your review.

16.Kota (South) Municipal Corporation.

17.Kota (North) Municipal Corporation.

18.Jodhpur (South) Municipal Corporation.

19.Jodhpur (North) Municipal Corporation.

20.Ajmer Municipal Corporation.

21.Kapurthala Municipal Corporation.

22.Phagwara Municipal Corporation.

23.Abohar Municipal Corporation.

24.Pathankot Municipal Corporation.

25.Hoshiarpur Municipal Corporation.

Thanks in advance.

@Gardenkur: You deleted your last post including your new additions to the list. Did you intend to do that? Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 19:27, 19 November 2022 (UTC)

Hi North8000. Iam really sorry if it has been accidentally deleted and if you can restore it. It was not intentional.Thanks.Gardenkur (talk) 01:27, 20 November 2022 (UTC) Do I need to give missing articles name again here.Gardenkur (talk) 06:22, 20 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hi North8000.Hope you are keeping fine.Following additional articles for your review.

26. Jalandhar Municipal CorporationShahjahanpur Municipal Corporation

27.Sambalpur Municipal Corporation

28.Aizawl Municipal Corporation

29.Morena Municipal Corporation

30.Murwara Municipal Corporation

31.Rewa Municipal Corporation to be redirected to Rewa Municipal Corporation

32.Ratlam Municipal Corporation

33.Dewas Municipal Corporation

34.Sagar Municipal Corporation

35.Vijayapura Mahanagara Palike

36.Ballari Mahanagara Palike

37.Bihar Sharif Municipal Corporation

38.Hazaribagh Municipal Corporation

39.Adityapur Municipal Corporation

40.Deoghar Municipal Corporation

41.Chas Municipal Corporation

42.Jamshedpur Municipal Corporation

43.Yamunanagar Municipal Corporation

44.Panchkula Municipal Corporation

45.Corporation of the City of Panaji

46.Risali Municipal Corporation

47.Bhilai Charoda Municipal Corporation

48.Chirmiri Municipal Corporation

49.Birgaon Municipal Corporation

50.Dhamtari Municipal Corporation

51.Ambikapur Municipal Corporation

Thanks in advance. Gardenkur (talk) 13:27, 21 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Gardenkur: Hello Gardenkur! For development authority articles it was easy to decide because I was 100% certain that they should not exist as separate articles. They did not contain suitable sources to establish wp:notability of the topic and IMO it unlikely that such sources don't exist. So a core guideline dictates that result. Also, there was essentially no good material in there that was unique to the development authority of the particular city. Typically there was just a sentence or two about a minor event. So there was no issue with simply converting to a redirect without trying to transfer any material to the city article.

Things are very slightly different for the Municipal corporation articles. The articles don't have sources to establish wp:notability, but, since the municipal corporation is basically another name for the government of the city, one could argue that such sources exist. So it's not a clear absolute that wp:notability prohibits existence as a separate article. I took a look at a few of the articles. They have the same issue that about 98% of the material is "boilerplate" about India Municipal corporations in general and 2% is some facts (like the names of the people currently holding offices) which could potentially be good material for the city article. So each of these is basically a "sub article" to the city article but with only a very tiny bit of content. Although the core guideline doesn't clearly dictate it, in my opinion these shouldn't exist as separate articles and I would not be comfortable with moving them into mainspace as articles. I see these as the possibilities:

I think that the best scenario would be to take the small amount of unique material (and sources for it) and moving it to the the corresponding city article. You would need to be the one to do the "move material" work because I don't have enough wiki-minutes to take on that work. Do you want to do that "move" work?
If not, my #2 choice would be for me to simple convert the articles into redirects as I did with the development authority articles.
The other possibility is for you to just do whatever you wish to do next with these without my involvement.

What do you think?

Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 00:39, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

Hi North8000. Thanks for your detailed response. I understand that the articles on Municipal Corporation are bit confusing on meeting wp:notability, but being the governing agencies of town these are important corporations.You can atleast move some of them where I added relevant references and they meet the Wikipedia policies. In case of others I will add more references. However they are created on guidance from constitution of India by notification in official gazette to improve the cities. Also the administrative offices of these institutions are important informational requirements.Gardenkur (talk) 13:36, 29 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think that you understood my post. Here is what the main points were:

"Policy" dictated that the development authority articles shouldn't exist, and so I just implemented "policy" and turned them into redirects.
"Policy" does not dictate what should happen with the municipal corporation articles. So I am just giving my opinion. My opinion is that the facts that are unique to (only for) that particular corporation should be moved to the corresponding city article and then the municipal corporation articles converted into a redirect to the city article. This would be possibility #1. So I listed this and three other possibilities and asked your opinion. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 18:57, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

Hi North8000. Hope you are keeping well. Starting from 1 iam adding additional references to make it more Wikipedia notable. Kindly have a look during your free time and guide me accordingly.Thanks. Gardenkur (talk) 02:19, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Gardenkur: I still don't think that you understand my post. I will say it shorter and more directly but my apologies if that makes it sound rude. The municipal corporation articles probably to no violate wp:notability. But for the reasons give, it is my mere opinion that they should be merged into the city articles, and so I don't want to personally move them as articles into article space. So I gave choice #1, #2 and #3 above. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 21:58, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

Hi North8000. I will move Municipal Corporations after adding more related reliable references. Also kindly guide me on Electricity Regulatory Commissions. Thanks. Gardenkur (talk) 12:17, 14 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Arbitrary break 2

Hi North8000. Thanks for your reply. I understood your suggestions. However, I feel that once moved to main space these articles will be subject to more additions on their geographical area,opportunities and challenges of each of these corporations and other relative information in the coming days. To make it more suitable to Wikipedia policies on articles for mainspace I am adding these references. There are already some of similar articles existing in Wikipedia platform and some point in future Iam sure someone will draft on these corporations. Thanks. Gardenkur (talk) 11:33, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe I'll move them as articles. I'm going to ask for advice at NPP. North8000 (talk) 15:38, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

WP:LAWYERING

Hi North8000, I'm writing to follow up about this section of the Wikilawyering essay:

Unlike Wikipedia, the legal world is 90% about technicalities, and a part of a lawyer's job to achieve a result using technicalities. So "wikilawyering" merely means taking a practice that is a good idea in the legal world and moving it into Wikipedia where it is a bad idea.

I think the essay would be stronger without this text, although I appreciate your attempt to edit this section after I added a 'dubious' tag in a cheeky moment when the original text once again kept me from considering whether to cite the essay in a discussion.

From my view, a lawyer primarily works with facts and laws, not "technicalities", to represent the interests of their client. What are sometimes complained about as classic "technicalities", e.g. there was a search when technically a warrant should have been obtained (therefore the evidence found is excluded), or a suspect in custody is questioned even though they technically should have first been informed of their right to remain silent and to have an attorney (requiring whatever they said to be inadmissible), or a defendant was technically entitled to a competent attorney (and therefore entitled to a new trial), can actually be fundamental rights, e.g. the Fourth, Fifth, and Sixth Amendments to the U.S. Constitution. There are cases that appear more technical, e.g. that depend on what the meaning of "is" is, but I don't think that is what the gist of the essay is describing as disruptive behavior.

I make a distinction by thinking of Wikipedia as the "client", which I think can be helpful for warding off inconsistent interpretations of P&Gs based on personal preference. Overall, I think the focus on "technicalities" in the essay may be misplaced, because the essay seems more focused on the misuse of P&Gs in ways that may implicate conduct policies. Perhaps the essay could be revised to clarify the meaning of 'technicality' in the context of Wikipedia, because the term seems to be used as a shorthand for using P&Gs to achieve objectives that are contrary to the spirit and fundamental principles of the encyclopedia. Beccaynr (talk) 13:45, 20 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Beccaynr: Thanks for the post. You should take a peek at how it was before I started working on it and also read the talk page from then. . "Wikilawyering" in Wikipedia was defined categorically much more severely, and lawyers / that profession was treated much broadly negative. I softened both up. The term is deeply entrenched in Wikipedia, and inevitably refers to a negative. And BTW, while everything that you said about the profession is true, I think that undeniably so is "using technicalities". And the entrenched Wiki meaning clearly refers to the "using technicalities". Unless you would advocate deletion of the essay, I think that it is kind and positive that it can be in the context of the meaning in Wikipedia. On another note , IMO the most common use of Wikilawyering is to POV an article. This can be mild situations and IMO the term needs to be usable for mild situations. While one could argue that POV'ing article is "working against the aims of Wikpedia", the latter is a broader and more severe accusation and I think that the term needs to be usable for milder cases without that escalation. So I think that something "invoking policy or guideline for other than it's intended purpose" says that well, and also is a reminder of how P&G's are used and are supposed to be used in Wikipedia....for the intended purpose. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 02:45, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

Hi North8000, I decided to write on your Talk page because I had reviewed some of the edit history and noticed you had added the content [13]. I think it should be removed because it seems distracting from the main points of the essay. It also does not seem kind nor positive, because it is a stereotype typically perpetuated in service of the denial of civil rights.

I also don't think a culture of broad negativity towards attorneys on Wikipedia is sufficient to support the specific content, even if the culture still exists, and maybe it should stop if it does. As a lawyer, I think the term 'wikilawyering' is great, but I don't think attorneys should be inaccurately portrayed to make the point about wikiconduct, and I think a more accurate portrayal of the legal profession can make the point more clearly.

So I'm not advocating for deletion of the essay, because I think it can be improved by removing the inaccurate POV I noted above, and I think it would help to have a little more precision in how the essay communicates its core concepts. But we can continue the discussion on the essay Talk page to seek more input from other editors - I just wanted to start by chatting with you because it is one of your contributions to the essay. Thank you, Beccaynr (talk) 03:48, 21 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not married to any particular wording. I am to keeping a couple of core things:

Should include using P&G's for other than their intended purpose
Should include / acknowledge non-severe forms

And just noting, it needs to explain the wikipedia term.

Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 04:04, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

Of course! and I will try to draft some proposed text over the next few days for a little more precision in the wording. Cheers, Beccaynr (talk) 04:11, 21 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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Need some assistance regarding a Wiki conference

Hey North, glad to speak to you again. I hope you're doing amazing. Recently, it was announced that Wikimedia would conduct its third conference in India, between 28-30 April 2023 in Hyderabad, Telangana. I felt like I should be taking part in it since I reside in the same country. Can you help me out with the process of registration and what will be my purpose of going there? Like can I just attend it as a spectator since it will be my first time? I'd be really helpful. Regards. Below is the link pertaining to the conference.

side note: I am blocked on Wiki commons, will it somehow affect the registration?

Wiki Conference India 2023.

And Merry Christmas to you and your family. :) Derivator2017 (talk) 10:37, 25 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Derivator2017: Thanks for the compliment of assuming I know so many thing. Unfortunately I don't know anything about the conference. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 16:28, 25 December 2022 (UTC)

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@MPGuy2824: Thanks! North8000 (talk) 15:37, 2 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Happy New Year, North8000!

Happy New Year!

North8000,
Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia.
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Sending a lot of these is what I was blocked for. :(

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@Moops: Thanks for the compliment! Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 18:53, 3 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Miscellaneous

Voting for the Sound Logo has closed and the winner is expected to be announced February to April 2023.
Tech tip: You can view information about IP addresses in a centralised location using bullseye which won the Newcomer award in the recent Coolest Tool Awards.

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Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

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Ping

I forgot to ping you at Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)#Summary of discussion so far.

So, this is your ping. ;) — The Transhumanist 01:13, 13 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@The Transhumanist: Thanks! North8000 (talk) 03:51, 14 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Edit warring

Since you cannot decipher the diffs, I'll be happy to do step-by-step edits for your edification. The result will be the same. Just stay out until I'm done. Grorp (talk) 04:14, 14 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Grorp: Not that you can make that demand, but it's fine with me. And stop making false accusations of edit warring. Nobody has crossed that line yet but you are much closer to it. It's a highly contentious article with significant warranted concerns about COI edits by Scientology folks. A massive bundle of individually un-revertable edits is a way to remove scrutiny by making it too time consuming (not the BS "cannot decipher" crap) to review/deal with which is not appropriate in this case. And so a more incremental approach is common practice for these cases, not for my "edification" Please unbundle into individually revertible edits with edit summaries, or take it to talk if you disagree with that approach. I don't know the situation with regards to yourself, but if you are simply NPOV working to improve the article, thank you for your efforts. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 04:29, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

If you have no prior knowledge of my editing work in the Wikipedia pages of Scientology, then I invite you to look at my edit history (contributions). FYI, tiny-steps-edits are not my style and don't fit with the way my brain works while trying to update out-of-date articles. When I feel there might be blowback on an edit, I usually have more to say than can fit in an edit summary and direct readers to the talk page. The rest of my edits are pretty recognizable and/or non-controversial. By now, I'm pretty sure you've been able to see that the edits I had made in that article were not controversial at all.

Most of the Scientology articles were written in the flush of massive public interest around 2008 when Anonymous came on the scene to protest Scientology. Many of the articles have little "digs" that aren't really appropriate for an encyclopedia, and are not necessary for readers to understand the subject. As such, a lot of the 'see also' and 'external links' sections are bloated with redirection to other (usually negative) articles of Scientology which are unrelated to the topic of the page. Citations have aged and need their URLs updated from current websites or copies gotten from online archives. Many articles suffer from "too many cooks" (including enthusiastic additions by critics and careful excisions by Scientologists) and no longer make any sense when you read them; those need straightening out.

The article Scientology status by country has been on my list of things to work on, but Xxxxx's edit took me there and one thing led to another. I hope my transfigured incrementals makes sense to you. Don't, however, expect incrementals from me as a custom. It is my hope that you will recognize the style and worth of my edits and see my good faith efforts to improve the encyclopedia and be willing to try to decipher atypical diffs rather than request exhaustive explanations. Grorp (talk) 05:22, 14 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Grorp:} Thanks for the ping, the explanation and your work. My points remain the same and so I won't repeat them. IMO my comments regarding large bundles of edits on controversial article might be useful to you. It ended up well including your most recent set of edits and so again, thanks for your work. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 22:12, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 16:04, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

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Always precious

Ten years ago, you were found precious. That's what you are, always. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:41, 18 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Gerda Arendt: Thanks! I try. North8000 (talk) 00:49, 23 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Arbitration case Armenia-Azerbaijan 3 opened

Hello North8000,

You recently offered a statement in a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Armenia-Azerbaijan 3. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Armenia-Azerbaijan 3/Evidence. Please add your evidence by February 10, 2023, which is when the evidence phase closes. You can also contribute to the case workshop subpage, Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Armenia-Azerbaijan 3/Workshop. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Wikipedia:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration.

For the Arbitration Committee, ~ ToBeFree (talk) 20:49, 27 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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Why did you delete my comment...

Here you deleted a comment I made during a thread on Trickle-down economics at NPOVN. Can you please tell me what was inappropriate about my comment? Thanks! --Jayron 32 19:55, 31 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Jayron32: I wanted to give you a quick response. Going into a meeting in 10 minutes and may not be able to fix until about 2 hours from now. It was my screw-up and I don't know how I made that error. Please accept my apologies. I'll fix or else feel free to beat me to it. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 20:02, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

Feedback request: History and geography request for comment

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Trickle-Down NPOV topic

Your last addition was fantastic. I've been trying to make this point for awhile and I think your example is the best one so far. We need to be very careful discussing impacts because we are validating the concept in wikivoice. The welfare queen example is perfect. If we say this is the impact, we de facto are calling them welfare queens through synth. Good response! Squatch347 (talk) 20:10, 1 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Squatch347: Thanks! I have an interest in this term-related structurally more than NPOV. In this case it has NPOV impact. In other cases it sows eternal confusion at the article even when there is no NPOV issue. North8000 (talk) 20:16, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

The Signpost: 4 February 2023

From the editor: New for the Signpost: Author pages, tag pages, and a decent article search function

News and notes: Foundation update on fundraising, new page patrol, Tides, and Wikipedia blocked in Pakistan

Section 230: Twenty-six words that created the internet, and the future of an encyclopedia

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Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

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Done. North8000 (talk) 23:16, 9 February 2023 (UTC)

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Done North8000 (talk) 23:21, 9 February 2023 (UTC)

Feedback request: Maths, science, and technology request for comment

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Done North8000 (talk) 20:54, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

Armenia-Azerbaijan 3 update: Parties added, evidence phase extended

Hello North8000,

Three parties have been added to the Armenia-Azerbaijan 3 arbitration case. The evidence phase has been extended and will close on February 21, 2023.

Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Armenia-Azerbaijan 3/Evidence. Please add your evidence by February 21, 2023, which is when the evidence phase closes. You can also contribute to the case workshop subpage, Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Armenia-Azerbaijan 3/Workshop. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Wikipedia:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration.

For the Arbitration committee,
~ ToBeFree (talk) 21:42, 11 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Feedback request: Biographies request for comment

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Done. North8000 (talk) 21:02, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

The Signpost: 20 February 2023

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Feedback request: Maths, science, and technology request for comment

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Done. North8000 (talk) 00:25, 27 February 2023 (UTC)

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Done. North8000 (talk) 00:34, 27 February 2023 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – March 2023

News and updates for administrators from the past month (February 2023).

Administrator changes

The Wordsmith

CheckUser changes

Callanecc

Oversighter changes

Callanecc

Guideline and policy news

Following a request for comment, F10 (useless non-media files) has been deprecated.
Following a request for comment, the Portal CSD criteria (P1 (portal subject to CSD as an article) and P2 (underpopulated portal)) have been deprecated.
A request for comment is open to discuss making the closing instructions for the requested moves process a guideline.

Technical news

The results of the 2023 Community Wishlist Survey have been posted.

Arbitration

Remedy 11 ("Request for Comment") of the Conduct in deletion-related editing case has been rescinded.
The proposed decision for the Armenia-Azerbaijan 3 case is expected 7 March 2023.
A case related to the Holocaust in Poland is expected to be opened soon.

Miscellaneous

The 2023 appointees for the Ombuds commission are AGK, Ameisenigel, Bennylin, Daniuu, Emufarmers, Faendalimas, JJMC89, MdsShakil, Minorax and Renvoy as regular members and Zabe as advisory members.
Following the 2023 Steward Elections, the following editors have been appointed as stewards: Mykola7, Superpes15, and Xaosflux.
The Terms of Use update cycle has started, which includes a [p]roposal for better addressing undisclosed paid editing. Feedback is being accepted until 24 April 2023.

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 13:19, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Featured Article Save Award

On behalf of the FAR coordinators, thank you, North8000! Your work on USS Missouri (BB-63) has allowed the article to retain its featured status, recognizing it as one of the best articles on Wikipedia. I hereby award you this Featured Article Save Award, or FASA. You may display this FA star upon your userpage. Keep up the great work! Cheers, Nikkimaria (talk) 16:31, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Nikkimaria: Thanks. It was my pleasure. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 21:59, 4 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

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DoneNorth8000 (talk) 15:26, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

Re: 3RR

The relevant text is in the pink box located at the WP:3RR hyperlink - An edit or a series of consecutive edits that undoes or manually reverses other editors' actions—whether in whole or in part—counts as a revert.

Best. Newimpartial (talk) 21:29, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I read that differently. That if a combination of consecutive edits is a revert, it's still a revert even if each one alone is not. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 21:42, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

I hear what you're saying, but given the very generous way individual edits are interpteted as reverts in general, it isn't clear to me how a revert could emerge in the aggregate from edits that are not themselves reverts, considered separately. But in any event, the "case law" at WP:3RRN is fairly clear that consecutive edits always count as only a single revert. Newimpartial (talk) 21:49, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The Signpost: 9 March 2023

News and notes: What's going on with the Wikimedia Endowment?

Technology report: Second flight of the Soviet space bears: Testing ChatGPT's accuracy

In the media: What should Wikipedia do? Publish Russian propaganda? Be less woke? Cover the Holocaust in Poland differently?

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From the archives: Five, ten, and fifteen years ago

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World War II and the history of Jews in Poland: Arbitration case opened

Hello North8000,

You recently offered a statement in a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/World War II and the history of Jews in Poland. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/World War II and the history of Jews in Poland/Evidence. Please add your evidence by April 04, 2023, which is when the first evidence phase closes. Submitted evidence will be summarized by Arbitrators and Clerks at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/World War II and the history of Jews in Poland/Evidence/Summary. Owing to the summary style, editors are encouraged to submit evidence in small chunks sooner rather than more complete evidence later.

Details about the summary page, the two phases of evidence, a timeline and other answers to frequently asked questions can be found at the case's FAQ page.

For a guide to the arbitration process, see Wikipedia:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration.

For the Arbitration Committee,
~ ToBeFree (talk) 00:12, 14 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

COI "gap"

Hello North8000,

Just a quick note to greet you outside of a noticeboard discussion.

I appreciated your recent comment at the COIN thread [14] that there is something tangible, in certain closely examined cases, between "strongly discouraged" and "forbidden" re COI editing. Part of the community seems to be using the "wikilawyering" charge to shut down any thoughtful exploration of that gap, which I find egregiously unjust.

You make the comment above that "too often Wikipedia is a nasty place". I feel this, and may or may not resume editing the encyclopaedia.

In case it's of interest, I made some general comments re my concerns about the editor experience, and tendentious applications of WP policy, in my statement at my user page. [15]

I found the content and tone of your contribution to that thread refreshing.

Sincerely, Walton22 (talk) 21:50, 15 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Walton22: Thanks for the post and compliment. I really don't enough about the situation to have an opinion. The universe of Wikipedia editing can be a weird alternate universe and often a rough and tumble or nasty one. I don't have the wiki-minutes to take a deep broad dive, but if I can ever advise or help, let me know. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 14:55, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

@North8000: Thank you very much. I was happy to just make broad brush strokes now by way of this introduction, but I do very much appreciate the offer to counsel a little in the future if need be. "Alternate universe" is right! There is great potential for justice here, and indeed I see it happen often. Walton22 (talk) 16:23, 16 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The Signpost: 20 March 2023

News and notes: Wikimania submissions deadline looms, Russian government after our lucky charms, AI woes nix CNET from RS slate

Eyewitness: Three more stories from Ukrainian Wikimedians

In the media: Paid editing, plagiarism payouts, proponents of a ploy, and people peeved at perceived preferences

Featured content: Way too many featured articles

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I think

you should check the spelling of Sarah Vaugn's name in your gallery. Carptrash (talk) 18:38, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Carptrash: Thanks. It looks like I have it (Vaughan) right. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 18:56, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

And while I have you here, what do you think of Bessie Smith & Ma Rainey as folk singers? I say "No" but it is always nice to meet a bold person who is actually willing to make the edits. Carptrash (talk) 19:15, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Carptrash: I have no expertise on them but their articles make zero mention of such and so I'd say no. North8000 (talk) 19:19, 30 March 2023 (UTC)

The Signpost: 03 April 2023

From the editor: Some long-overdue retractions

News and notes: Sounding out, a universal code of conduct, and dealing with AI

In the media: Twiddling Wikipedia during an online contest, and other news

Arbitration report: "World War II and the history of Jews in Poland" case is ongoing

Featured content: Hail, poetry! Thou heav'n-born maid

Recent research: Language bias: Wikipedia captures at least the "silhouette of the elephant", unlike ChatGPT

From the archives: April Fools' through the ages

Disinformation report: Sus socks support suits, seems systemic

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Administrators' newsletter – April 2023

News and updates for administrators from the past month (March 2023).

Administrator changes

Aoidh

KillerChihuahua

CheckUser changes

Ferret

Guideline and policy news

A community RfC is open to discuss whether reports primarily involving gender-related disputes or controversies should be referred to the Arbitration enforcement noticeboard.

Technical news

Some older web browsers will not be able to use JavaScript on Wikimedia wikis starting this week. This mainly affects users of Internet Explorer 11. (T178356)
The rollback of Vector 2022 RfC has found no consensus to rollback to Vector legacy, but has found rough consensus to disable "limited width" mode by default.
A link to the user's Special:CentralAuth page will now appear in the subtitle links shown on Special:Contributions. This was voted #17 in the Community Wishlist Survey 2023.

Arbitration

The Armenia-Azerbaijan 3 case has been closed.
A case about World War II and the history of Jews in Poland has been opened, with the first evidence phase closing 6 April 2023.

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:11, 4 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Ping (April 2023)

FYI, the ping in your reply at ANI won't work. See the documentation at Template:Ping#Usage for more info. Cheers. XAM2175 ^(T) 21:56, 6 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@XAM2175: Thanks. There was one where I did it wrong and then fixed it a few minutes later. Is that the one that you are referring to? or did I make another error. :-) North8000 (talk) 14:11, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

It's this edit at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents § Proposal to Indef DBachmann. The entire point of my message is that you can't fix it – the ping only works if all of these conditions are fulfilled in the edit where you place the ping template:

The edit must add new lines of text, not just edit existing lines.
The edit must be signed by adding ~~~~ to the end of the message.
The edit must either be entirely within an existing section (it cannot have new section headers in the middle) or start a new section (starts with a new section header).
The number of users to be pinged must be equal to or less than 50.

Thus, if you forget to add a ping, or get it wrong, the easiest thing to do is revert your reply entirely and then add it again with a working ping. Cheers. XAM2175 ^(T) 18:37, 7 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@XAM2175:Thanks much for your post. I learned from it. I thought that you just needed a new signature and a new ping. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 22:58, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

No worries, glad I could help! 🙂 XAM2175 ^(T) 23:26, 7 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Procedural notification

Hi, I and others have proposed additional options at Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)#RfC_on_a_procedural_community_desysop. You may wish to review your position in that RfC. TonyBallioni (talk) 02:22, 20 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Feedback request: History and geography request for comment

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New Page Patrol – May 2023 Backlog Drive

New Page Patrol \| May 2023 Backlog Drive
On 1 May, a one-month backlog drive for New Page Patrol will begin. Barnstars will be awarded based on the number of redirects patrolled and for maintaining a streak throughout the drive. Article patrolling is not part of the drive. Sign up here! There is a possibility that the drive may not run if there are <20 registered participants. Participants will be notified if this is the case.
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MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:12, 20 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The Signpost: 26 April 2023

News and notes: Staff departures at Wikimedia Foundation, Jimbo hands in the bits, and graphs' zeppelin burns

In the media: Contested truth claims in Wikipedia

Obituary: Remembering David "DGG" Goodman

Arbitration report: Holocaust in Poland, Jimbo in the hot seat, and a desysopping

Opinion: What Jimbo's question revealed about scamming

Op-Ed: Wikipedia as an anchor of truth

Special report: Signpost statistics between years 2005 and 2022

News from the WMF: Collective planning with the Wikimedia Foundation

Featured content: In which we described the featured articles in rhyme again

From the archives: April Fools' through the ages, part two

Humour: The law of hats

Traffic report: Long live machine, the future supreme

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Feedback request: Maths, science, and technology request for comment

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Done North8000 (talk) 14:54, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

Feedback request: Maths, science, and technology request for comment

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Feedback request: Biographies request for comment

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Feedback request: Wikipedia policies and guidelines request for comment

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Administrators' newsletter – May 2023

News and updates for administrators from the past month (April 2023).

Administrator changes

Spicy

CheckUser changes

Jimbo Wales

Oversighter changes

Jimbo Wales

Guideline and policy news

A request for comment about removing administrative privileges in specified situations is open for feedback.

Technical news

Progress has started on the Page Triage improvement project. This is to address the concerns raised by the community in their 2022 WMF letter that requested improvements be made to the tool.

Arbitration

The proposed decision in the World War II and the history of Jews in Poland case is expected 11 May 2023.

Miscellaneous

The Wikimedia Foundation annual plan 2023-2024 draft is open for comment and input through May 19. The final plan will be published in July 2023.

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 09:23, 3 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The Signpost: 8 May 2023

News and notes: New legal "deVLOPments" in the EU

In the media: Vivek's smelly socks, online safety, and politics

Recent research: Gender, race and notability in deletion discussions

Featured content: I wrote a poem for each article, I found rhymes for all the lists; My first featured picture of this year now finally exists!

Arbitration report: "World War II and the history of Jews in Poland" approaches conclusion

News from the WMF: Planning together with the Wikimedia Foundation

Special report: There Shall Be Seasons Refreshing – Stories from WikiConference India 2023

* Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 04:25, 8 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Accidental pings?`

Hey, did I accidentally ping you 3 times consecutively in my attempt to edit the Fox News RfC? If so, so sorry. Wait, wouldn't this talk page message make it 4? Oh no. -- Mebigrouxboy (talk) 03:51, 9 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Mebigrouxboy: I did get a couple of pings and it was bit confusing where they didn't go. Thanks for the pings and the post. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 12:19, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment

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Done North8000 (talk) 12:36, 11 May 2023 (UTC)

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

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Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

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The Signpost: 22 May 2023

News and notes: Golden parachutes: Record severance payments at Wikimedia Foundation

In the media: History, propaganda and censorship

Arbitration report: Final decision in "World War II and the history of Jews in Poland"

Recent research: Create or curate, cooperate or compete? Game theory for Wikipedia editors

Featured content: A very musical week for featured articles

Traffic report: Coronation, chatbot, celebs

WikiProject report: Wikipedians Convene for Queering Wikipedia 2023: The First International LGBT+ Wikipedia Conference

* Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 08:40, 22 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Feedback request: History and geography request for comment

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The Signpost: 5 June 2023

News and notes: WMRU director forks new 'pedia, birds flap in top '22 piccy, WMF weighs in on Indian gov's map axe plea

In the media: Section 230 stands tall, WP vs. UK bill, Miss Information dissed again

Featured content: Poetry under pressure

Traffic report: Celebs, controversies and a chatbot in the public eye

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Administrators' newsletter – June 2023

News and updates for administrators from the past month (May 2023).

Administrator changes

Ingenuity

CheckUser changes

Courcelles

Guideline and policy news

Following an RfC, editors indefinitely site-banned by community consensus will now have all rights, including sysop, removed.
As a part of the Wikimedia Foundation's IP Masking project, a new policy has been created that governs the access to temporary account IP addresses. An associated FAQ has been created and individual communities can increase the requirements to view temporary account IP addresses.

Technical news

Bot operators and tool maintainers should schedule time in the coming months to test and update their tools for the effects of IP masking. IP masking will not be deployed to any content wiki until at least October 2023 and is unlikely to be deployed to the English Wikipedia until some time in 2024.

Arbitration

The arbitration case World War II and the history of Jews in Poland has been closed. The topic area of Polish history during World War II (1933-1945) and the history of Jews in Poland is subject to a "reliable source consensus-required" contentious topic restriction.

Miscellaneous

Following a community referendum, the arbitration policy has been modified to remove the ability for users to appeal remedies to Jimbo Wales.

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 15:33, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Scottywong case opened

You recently offered a statement in a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Scottywong. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Scottywong/Evidence. Please add your evidence by June 21, 2023, which is when the evidence phase closes. You can also contribute to the case workshop subpage, Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Scottywong/Workshop. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Wikipedia:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration. For the Arbitration Committee, –MJL ‐Talk‐^☖ 19:22, 7 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Feedback request: History and geography request for comment

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Done. North8000 (talk) 13:39, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

Feedback request: Maths, science, and technology request for comment

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Done. North8000 (talk) 13:39, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

New Pages Patrol newsletter June 2023

Hello North8000,

Backlog

Redirect drive: In response to an unusually high redirect backlog, we held a redirect backlog drive in May. The drive completed with 23851 reviews done in total, bringing the redirect backlog to 0 (momentarily). Congratulations to Hey man im josh who led with a staggering 4316 points, followed by Meena and Greyzxq with 2868 and 2546 points respectively. See this page for more details. The redirect queue is steadily rising again and is steadily approaching 4,000. Please continue to help out, even if it's only for a few or even one review a day.

Redirect autopatrol: All administrators without autopatrol have now been added to the redirect autopatrol list. If you see any users who consistently create significant amounts of good quality redirects, consider requesting redirect autopatrol for them here.

WMF work on PageTriage: The WMF Moderator Tools team, consisting of Sam, Jason and Susana, and also some patches from Jon, has been hard at work updating PageTriage. They are focusing their efforts on modernising the extension's code rather than on bug fixes or new features, though some user-facing work will be prioritised. This will help make sure that this extension is not deprecated, and is easier to work on in the future. In the next month or so, we will have an opt-in beta test where new page patrollers can help test the rewrite of Special:NewPagesFeed, to help find bugs. We will post more details at WT:NPPR when we are ready for beta testers.

Articles for Creation (AFC): All new page reviewers are now automatically approved for Articles for Creation draft reviewing (you do not need to apply at WT:AFCP like was required previously). To install the AFC helper script, visit Special:Preferences, visit the Gadgets tab, tick "Yet Another AFC Helper Script", then click "Save". To find drafts to review, visit Special:NewPagesFeed, and at the top left, tick "Articles for Creation". To review a draft, visit a submitted draft, click on the "More" menu, then click "Review (AFCH)". You can also comment on and submit drafts that are unsubmitted using the script.

You can review the AFC workflow at WP:AFCR. It is up to you if you also want to mark your AFC accepts as NPP reviewed (this is allowed but optional, depends if you would like a second set of eyes on your accept). Don't forget that draftspace is optional, so moves of drafts to mainspace (even if they are not ready) should not be reverted, except possibly if there is conflict of interest.

Pro tip: Did you know that visual artists such as painters have their own SNG? The most common part of this "creative professionals" criteria that applies to artists is WP:ARTIST 4b (solo exhibition, not group exhibition, at a major museum) or 4d (being represented within the permanent collections of two museums).

Reminders

Newsletter feedback - please take this short poll about the newsletter.
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Feedback request: Wikipedia policies and guidelines request for comment

Your feedback is requested at Wikipedia:WikiProject Telecommunications/Area codes RfC on a "Wikipedia policies and guidelines" request for comment. Thank you for helping out!
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Done. North8000 (talk) 18:51, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment

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The Signpost: 19 June 2023

News and notes: WMF Terms of Use now in force, new Creative Commons licensing

In the media: English WP editor glocked after BLP row on Italian 'pedia

Featured content: Content, featured

Recent research: Hoaxers prefer currently-popular topics

* Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 10:10, 19 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment

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Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment

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AlisonW case request accepted

You recently offered a statement in a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/AlisonW. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/AlisonW/Evidence. Please add your evidence by June 30, 2023, which is when the evidence phase closes. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Wikipedia:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration. For the Arbitration Committee, Dreamy Jazz ^{talk to me | my contributions} 23:51, 21 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Feedback request: Media, the arts, and architecture request for comment

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kkk

I think you may be misrepresenting me here. I am trying to abide by WP:CIVIL, as we all should. I find it troublesome, but perhaps it was just an accident? DN (talk) 04:24, 26 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Darknipples: I didn't write anything by accident nor did I write anything uncivil. I did civilly take issue with one thing that you said about those who feel opposite that you do but even that was just a sidebar to my post. From your apologetic post I think you are being sincere and so I would like to offer a thought that might be useful. I've familiar with TFD's work (for over a decade) and they are one of the most careful, non-emotional, academic and source-based editors that I've interacted with. Their arguments (and mine) are just trying to sort out / discuss the specific narrow topics that you opened the section with. I think that you are misreading this as being about some broader POV struggle. There's nobody there who likes the KKK. IMO there are people who want to make the KKK article be (just) about the KKK. What reinforced my thought about the possible misreading was that quote that you closed you post with is something the to me looks like excellent relevant material for the article but you seemed to mistakenly thinking that the people who want to exclude that (IMHO irrelevant) material that you opened the section with have some broader exclusion goals which they don't have. In short, you may be imagining a battle that does not exist. And that a good way to sort that out would be to not conflate the narrow topic of your post that started that section with the other topics that you are mentioning, and to use the test of relevance to the article to help sort things out. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 12:52, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

I'll clarify my so-called "absurd argument" for you. It's because it is excluding him, not entirely, but it's still exclusion. If that's how you want to interpret it, that's up to you. I clarified that I wasn't accusing anyone and that I was talking about under-representation, not disassociation. You seemingly used a misinterpretation as a means to discredit arguments I technically wasn't trying to make, which is a Straw man. That is not something I get bent out of shape over because it isn't typically uncivil. Where it crossed the line was calling it "absurd" (your word) which adds Appeal to ridicule on top of the misrepresentation. Now try to look at it from my perspective. If my response to you was..."I didn't write anything by accident nor did I write anything uncivil", what would you do? Would you still take the time to try to clear the air in effort to keep things CIVIL? Think about it, unfortunately I won't be responding on the article talk page until this gets sorted out. Cheers. DN (talk) 01:42, 27 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

BTW I don't mean to sound condescending, by linking those logical fallacies. I do agree with and respect the rest of your explanation, but I don't feel as though I am being acknowledged or understood properly, so when I respond sometimes I overcompensate. DN (talk) 02:31, 27 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Darknipples: There seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding. I NEVER said that you made an absurd argument. Let's let the actual words speak for themselves. Please review the following:

You made the following statement: "While I don't agree with the explanations I've been given as to why excluding David Duke from the KKK article...."
And I responded to /referred to that statement saying "you open with saying that somebody made the absurd argument to generally exclude David Duke from the article (which I don't see anyone having said anything like that)"

It is not abundantly clear that this is NOT calling your argument absurd? My complaint was that you were misstating the arguments of others in a way that makes them / their argument look absurd. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 13:51, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

Feedback request: Media, the arts, and architecture request for comment

Your feedback is requested at Talk:Punk rock on a "Media, the arts, and architecture" request for comment. Thank you for helping out!
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Done. North8000 (talk) 20:34, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

New pages patrol needs your help!

Hello North8000,

The New Page Patrol team is sending you this impromptu message to inform you of a steeply rising backlog of articles needing review. If you have any extra time to spare, please consider reviewing one or two articles each day to help lower the backlog. You can start reviewing by visiting Special:NewPagesFeed. Thank you very much for your help.

Reminders:

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Sent by Zippybonzo using MediaWiki message delivery at 06:59, 1 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Administrators' newsletter – July 2023

News and updates for administrators from the past month (June 2023).

Administrator changes

Novem Linguae

Bureaucrat changes

MBisanz

Guideline and policy news

Contributions to the English Wikipedia are now released under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International License (CC BY-SA 4.0) license instead of CC BY-SA 3.0. Contributions are still also released under the GFDL license.

Technical news

Discussion is open regarding a proposed global policy regarding third-party resources. Third-party resources are computer resources that reside outside of Wikimedia production websites.

Arbitration

Two arbitration cases are currently open. Proposed decisions are expected 5 July 2023 for the Scottywong case and 9 July 2023 for the AlisonW case.

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 12:58, 1 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

WikiProject Scouting Newsletter: July 2023

WikiProject Scouting | July 2023

Notes for July

On our To do list, we need to prioritize some tasks for articles outside of the US or the UK.

The Scout Association has been nominated for a good article reassessment.
25th World Scout Jamboree, this may be a good time to improve this article. Anyone going?

We want to develop a featured portal, look here if you want to help.
Wood Badge, Brownsea Island Scout camp and Philmont Scout Ranch all need attention.

Announcements for the benefit of all

Please go and "watch" this page: Article alerts. You will quickly see if any issues arise.
Here is a list of other pages to watch as well: Wikipedia:WikiProject Scouting/Watch

Other ways to participate

--evrik ^(talk)

Sent by Zippybonzo using MediaWiki message delivery at 16:41, 1 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

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The Signpost: 3 July 2023

News and notes: Online Safety Bill: Wikimedia Foundation and Wikimedia UK launch open letter

Disinformation report: Imploded submersible outfit foiled trying to sing own praises on Wikipedia

In the media: Journo proposes mass Wiki dox, sponsored articles on Fandom, Section 230 discussed

Featured content: Incensed

Traffic report: Are you afraid of spiders? Arnold? The Idol? ChatGPT?

Humour: United Nations dispatches peacekeeping force to Wikipedia policy discussions

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Feedback request: Wikipedia proposals request for comment

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Proposed decision posted for the AlisonW case

The proposed decision for the AlisonW case has been posted. Statements regarding the proposed decision are welcome at the talk page. Please note that comments must be made in your own section. For the Arbitration Committee, Dreamy Jazz ^{talk to me | my contributions} 15:24, 10 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Feedback request: History and geography request for comment

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Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/AlisonW closed

The arbitration case Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/AlisonW has been closed, and the final decision is viewable at the case page. The following remedy has been enacted:

For failure to meet the conduct standards expected of an administrator, AlisonW's administrative user rights are removed. She may regain them at any time via a successful request for adminship.

For the Arbitration Committee, Dreamy Jazz ^{talk to me | my contributions} 17:45, 16 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Discuss this at: Wikipedia talk:Arbitration Committee/Noticeboard#Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/AlisonW closed

The Signpost: 17 July 2023

News and notes: Big bux hidden beneath wine-dark sea as we wait for the Tides to go out?

In the media: Tentacles of Emirates plot attempt to ensnare Wikipedia

Obituary: David Thomsen (Dthomsen8) and Ingo Koll (Kipala)

News from the WMF: ABC for Fundraising: Advancing Banner Collaboration for fundraising campaigns

In focus: Are the children of celebrities over-represented in French cinema?

Tips and tricks: What automation can do for you (and your WikiProject)

Recent research: Wikipedia-grounded chatbot "outperforms all baselines" on factual accuracy

Humour: New fringe theories to be introduced

Cobwebs: If you're reading this, you're probably on a desktop

Featured content: Scrollin', scrollin', scrollin', keep those readers scrollin', got to keep on scrollin', Rawhide!

Traffic report: The Idol becomes the Master

* Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 09:01, 17 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Feedback request: Economy, trade, and companies request for comment

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SmallCat dispute case opened

You recently offered a statement in a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/SmallCat dispute. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/SmallCat dispute/Evidence. Please add your evidence by August 4, 2023, which is when the evidence phase closes. You can also contribute to the case workshop subpage, Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/SmallCat dispute/Workshop. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Wikipedia:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration. For the Arbitration Committee, Dreamy Jazz ^{talk to me | my contributions} 13:04, 21 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

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done. North8000 (talk) 15:31, 28 July 2023 (UTC)

Feedback requests from the Feedback Request Service

Your feedback is requested at Talk:Killing of Jordan Neely on a "All RFCs" request for comment, and at Talk:Barbenheimer on a "Media, the arts, and architecture" request for comment. Thank you for helping out!
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Done North8000 (talk) 13:44, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

The Signpost: 1 August 2023

News and notes: City officials attempt to doxx Wikipedians, Ruwiki founder banned, WMF launches Mastodon server

In the media: Truth, AI, bull from politicians, and climate change

Disinformation report: Hot climate, hot hit, hot money, hot news hot off the presses!

Obituary: Donald Cram, Peter McCawley, and Eagleash

Tips and tricks: Citation tools for dummies!

Humour: Does Wikipedia present neutral perspectives?

In focus: Journals cited by Wikipedia

Opinion: Are global bans the last step?

Featured content: Featured Content, 1 to 15 July

Traffic report: Come on Oppie, let's go party

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Administrators' newsletter – August 2023

News and updates for administrators from the past month (July 2023).

Administrator changes

Firefangledfeathers

Interface administrator changes

Novem Linguae

Technical news

The tag filter on Special:NewPages and revision history pages can now be inverted. This allows hiding edits made by automated tools. (T334338)
Special:BlockedExternalDomains is a new tool that allows easier blocking of plain domains (and their subdomains). This is more easily searchable and is faster for the software to use than the existing MediaWiki:Spam-blacklist. It does not support regex (for complex cases), URL path-matching, or the MediaWiki:Spam-whitelist. (T337431)

Arbitration

The arbitration cases named Scottywong and AlisonW closed 10 July and 16 July respectively.
The SmallCat dispute arbitration case is in the workshop phase.

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 08:54, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Feedback request: Biographies request for comment

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The Signpost: 15 August 2023

News and notes: Dude, Where's My Donations? Wikimedia Foundation announces another million in grants for non-Wikimedia-related projects

In the media: An accusation of bias from Brazil, a lawsuit from Portugal, plagiarism from Florida

In focus: 2023 Good Article Nomination drive is underway: get your barnstars here!

Special report: Thirteen years later, why are most administrators still from 2005?

Tips and tricks: How to find images for your articles, check their copyright, upload them, and restore them

Cobwebs: Getting serious about writing

Opinion: Copyright trolls, or the last beautiful free souls on this planet?

Serendipity: Why I stopped taking photographs almost altogether

Featured content: Barbenheimer confirmed

Humour: Arbitration Committee to accept case against Right Honorable Frimbley Cantingham, 15th Viscount Bellington-upon-Porkshire

Traffic report: 'Cause today it just goes with the fashion

* Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 14:17, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

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Done. North8000 (talk) 20:39, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

Feedback request: Economy, trade, and companies request for comment

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Proposed decision posted for the SmallCat dispute case

The proposed decision in the SmallCat dispute has been posted. You are invited to review this decision and draw the arbitrators' attention to any relevant material or statements. Comments may be brought to the attention of the committee on the proposed decision talk page. For the Arbitration Committee, Dreamy Jazz ^{talk to me | my contributions} 10:53, 23 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Feedback request: Biographies request for comment

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Done North8000 (talk) 00:09, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Feedback request: Biographies request for comment

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Done North8000 (talk) 00:13, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Feedback request: History and geography request for comment

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Done North8000 (talk) 14:18, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

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Feedback request: Wikipedia policies and guidelines request for comment

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Done. Active there already. North8000 (talk) 16:33, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

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Done North8000 (talk) 16:36, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

Feedback request: History and geography request for comment

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Carmel Valley Historical Society

We have spoken before about the Carmel Development Company Building and the Edward G. Kuster articles, and I know you are interested in California History. Please check out the Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Carmel Valley Historical Society and add your 2 cents to keep the article. I think the article has merit and should not be deleted. Any help you can be provide would be appreciated. Thanks! Greg Henderson (talk) 22:23, 28 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 3,564: / Line 3,564: @@
 [[File:Internet-group-chat.svg|48px|left|alt=|link=]]Your feedback is requested &#32;at [[Talk:History of Transylvania#rfc_7833E21|'''Talk:History of Transylvania'''&#32; on a "History and geography" request for comment]]. Thank you for helping out!<br/><small>You were randomly selected to receive this invitation from the list of [[WP:FRS|Feedback Request Service]] subscribers. If you'd like not to receive these messages any more, you can opt out at any time by [[WP:FRS|removing your name]].</small> <!-- Template:FRS notification --><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Message delivered to you with love by [[User:Yapperbot|Yapperbot]] :) &#124; Is this wrong? Contact [[User talk:Naypta|my bot operator]]. &#124; Sent at  11:31, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
+== Carmel Valley Historical Society ==
+We have spoken before about the [[Carmel Development Company Building]] and the [[Edward G. Kuster]] articles, and I know you are interested in California History. Please check out the [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Carmel Valley Historical Society]] and add your 2 cents to '''keep''' the article. I think the article has merit and should not be deleted. Any help you can be provide would be appreciated. Thanks! [[User:Greghenderson2006|Greg Henderson]] ([[User talk:Greghenderson2006#top|talk]]) 22:23, 28 August 2023 (UTC)