Using a DYK suggestion string (see below examples), list new suggestions in the candidate entries section below under the date the article was created or the expansion began (not the date you submit it here), with the newest dates at the top. Any user may nominate a DYK suggestion; self-nominations are permitted and encouraged. Thanks for participating and please remember to check back for comments on your nomination.
Please use one of the strings below to post your DYK nomination, using the "author" and "nominator" fields to identify the users who should receive credit for their contributions if the hook is featured on the main page.
Nom without image: {{subst:NewDYKnom | article= | hook=... that ? | author= }}
Nom with image: {{subst:NewDYKnom | article= | hook=... that ? | author= | image= | caption= }}
To include more than one new or expanded article in a single hook:|article2=|article3=|article4= | (etc)
To include more than one author:|author2=|author3= | (etc)
To include alternate hooks:|ALT1=|ALT2= | (etc)
To add a comment:|comment=
To add the article you reviewed:|reviewed=
Do not wikilink the article title, or the author username field; the template will wikilink them automatically. Do wikilink the article title in the hook field, however. Do not add a section heading if you are using the template; the template will add one for you. Do not include a signature (~~~~) after the template. Do not use non-free images in your hook suggestion.
An example of how to use the template is given below. Full details are at {{NewDYKnom}}:
{{subst:NewDYKnom
| article = Example
| status = new<!--(or) expanded-->
| hook = ... that this [[article]] is an '''[[example]]''' ''(pictured)''?
| author = User
| nominator =
| image = Example.png
| rollover = An example image
| comment =
}}
Note that you should only use one of the above templates for the original hook. If you want to suggest a second, alternative hook for the same article submission, just type it in manually. The above templates output useful code for each submission and if you employ them for alternative hooks, you will mess up the page formatting.
When saving your suggestion, please add the name of the suggested article to your edit summary.
Please check back for comments on your nomination. Responding to reasonable objections will help ensure that your article is listed.
If you nominate someone else's article, you can use {{subst:DYKNom}} to notify them. Usage: {{subst:DYKNom|Article name|July 12}} Thanks, ~~~~
If a reviewer finds problem(s) that require that an issue be addressed, notify the nominator with {{DYKproblem}}.
How to review a nomination
Any editor who was not involved in writing/expanding or nominating an article may review it by checking to see that the article meets all the DYK criteria (long enough, new enough, no serious editorial or content issues) and the hook is cited. Editors may also alter the suggested hook to improve it, or may suggest new hooks.
If you want to confirm that an article is ready to be placed on a later update, or note that there is an issue with the article or hook, you may use the following symbols (optional) to point the issues out:
Symbol
Code
DYK Ready?
Description
{{subst:DYKtick}}
Yes
No problems, ready for DYK
{{subst:DYKtickAGF}}
Yes
Article is ready for DYK, with a foreign-language or offline hook reference accepted in good faith
{{subst:DYK?}}
Query
DYK eligibility requires that an issue be addressed. Notify nominator with {{subst:DYKproblem|Article}}
{{subst:DYK?no}}
Maybe
DYK eligibility requires additional work. Notify nominator with {{subst:DYKproblem|Article}}
{{subst:DYKno}}
No
Article is either completely ineligible, or else requires considerable work before becoming eligible
Please consider using {{subst:DYKproblem|Article|header=yes|sig=yes}} on the nominator's talk page, in case they do not notice that there is an issue.
Backlogged?
This page often seems to be backlogged. If the DYK template has not been updated for substantially more than 6 hours, it may be useful to attract the attention of one of the administrators who regularly updates the template. See the page Wikipedia:Did you know/Admins for a list of administrators who have volunteered to help with this project.
Where is my hook?
If you can't find the hook you submitted to this page, in most cases it means your article has been approved and is in the queue for display on the main page. You can check whether your hook has been moved to the queue by reviewing the queue listings.
If your hook is not in the queue or already on the main page, it has probably been deleted. Deletion occurs if the hook is more than about eight days old and has unresolved issues for which any discussion has gone stale. If you think your hook has been unfairly deleted, you can query its deletion on the discussion page, but as a general rule deleted hooks will only be restored in exceptional circumstances.
Candidate entries
Articles created/expanded on October 19
Stand Up Comedy (song)
... that the U2 song "Stand Up Comedy" was recreated so many times that six different songs were written as a result?
- Refs and hook good, length and date check out. Great job on this article - I hadn't noticed it was created (I happen to be rather interested in Beerbohm and Rossetti). - I.M.S. (talk) 20:57, 19 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Térez Montcalm
... that Canadian singer Térez Montcalm's debut album, Risque, saw her nominated for five Félix Awards in 1995?
Nucleic acid analogues is old but highly related and never featured as a DYK
Sam Zolotow
... that theater reporter Sam Zolotow of The New York Times was said to be able to get any information he needed, as long as he had "a corned-beef sandwich, a cigar and a telephone"?
... that the mayor of Rongelap, James Matayoshi, led the Marshallese who suffered from radiation sickness in seeking monetary compensation between 2005 and 2007?
Comment: Hook is for two artciles, Fort Anjediva, a stub article expanded by more 5x and Church of Our Lady of Springs and hence number charachters in the hook is little more than 200
... that the alternative country band The V-Roys were originally named The Vice Roys, but were forced to change their name after being threatened with a lawsuit from a Jamaican band?
Created by Omarcheeseboro (talk). Self nom at 09:44, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
... that when the musical Kelly closed after one night on Broadway, a reviewer noted "Ella Logan was written out of Kelly before it reached the Broadhurst Theater Saturday night. Congratulations, Miss Logan"?
... that Celle was the official residence of the Lüneburg branch of the Dukes of Welf who had been banished from their original ducal seat by its townsfolk?
... that Moroccan alligator wrestler and circus strongman Tahar Douis set a world record by lifting 12 men weighing a total of 1,700 pounds on his shoulders?
... that Swedish painter Richard Bergh(pictured) was established as a portrait painter, although his landscape paintings played an important role in the development of Swedish romantic nationalism?
... that in 2008 61 year old Rosie Swale-Pope completed a five year 20,000 mile around the world run to highlight the importance of early diagnosis of prostate cancer?
... that the A,A Light Sculpture (pictured) by Jim Sanborn at the University of Houston illuminates its surroundings with prose from different languages?
Much better. I would suggest making it a bit clearer with something like "are based on unearthed family letters from the American Civil War" (change in italics). Anyway, length and history verified, offline ref accepted in good faith. rʨanaɢtalk/contribs14:33, 18 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Actually only two of the songs on the album are "Civil War" songs. I reworded the article to clarify. How about this?
DYKCheck says that it's not quite long enough (1456 characters). Also don't really know what's unusual about the hook, I think a lot of artists re-record songs from previous albums. -- BigDom19:57, 19 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It's not terribly common for the re-recording to become a single, though; a nearly-identical hook was passed for Waitin' on a Woman last year. Also, I think it's all the more unusual for someone like Owen, who's only two albums into his career, to be re-recording something from his debut. I addded a few more words to the article. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • (Many otters • One bat • One hammer)21:11, 19 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Article is now long enough, and on consideration I suppose that whilst it isn't unusual for a song to be re-recorded it's less common for it to be a single, although the fact that there has been an almost identical DYK before kind of shows that it's not that rare. Sources check out OK. -- BigDom21:30, 19 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
... that the Bavarian ministry of education once ordered 75,000 copies of a song book for school children to be destroyed because it contained a song by Biermösl Blosn?
Date, and length verfied. The hook states that Robert Christgau called it the most important record of the 80s; however cite[5] states he gave it an A+ and cite [6] is written by a different editor in which I can not find where it states Robert Christgau's opinion on the band. Thanks in advance ♠ B.s.n.♥R.N.contribs07:56, 18 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Presumably he made the comment in a different article, which is not available online, or maybe on a TV show or something. The comment is also rmentioned on the sleeve of the 20th anniversary edition of the album itself (scan can be provided if required), so I think it's legit...... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:24, 18 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
If its on the album's sleeve that Robert Christgau stated that it is fine; however, to use this hook it would have to be cited. Offline sources are permissible in good faith. The one provided by cite[6] can't be accepted if it doesn't support the statement. Sorry. Maybe you can change the hook or find a source so we can use it. Sincerely ♠ B.s.n.♥R.N.contribs09:19, 18 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
BTW I've just noticed that you say that ref [6] doesn't support the original hook. Actually, if you scroll down far enough you will find a bit that says "Robert Christgau called The Indestructible Beat of Soweto the most important record of the 80s, and while I don't agree, I can see his point" -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:44, 19 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
... that history records a "White Mutiny" by disgruntled officers of the East India Company in the precincts of the Munger Fort, in Bihar, India, which was put down by Lord Clive?
Length fine... my reading (or the source attached to the key fact) is that the known reserves will last for 2,000 to 3,000 years. Obviously Tanco mine will contribute, but you are assuming it is all in this mine (in my reading of the hook)... which I see no evidence for. Good to have a short hook by make sure its reliable 15:57, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
Ok, you are right, it might not that clear, but with some help it might be possible to make it clear enough. The ref states Given current global reserves of cesium and current estimated global use of 30,000 kg/yr, cesium reserves are more than adequate to satisfy demand during the next 2,000 to 3,000 years while the list on the next page gives the reserves of Canada with 70,000,000 kg and the reserve base world wide with 110,000,000 kg. The statment: more than two-thirds of the world’s reserve base is at Bernic Lake, Canada makes it clear that all the reserves of Canada are located at Bernic Lake, which is the Tanco Mine. By the simpe calculation of 70000000/30000 = 2333 it is clear that at our present consumption it will last for 2333 years. The second hook might be cleared by the sentence: In the past few decades, nearly all of the world’s supply of cesium has come from zoned pegmatites at Bernic Lake (McCutcheon, 1995). All the facts are from the USGS article by Butterman. Thanks for the help.--Stone (talk) 17:21, 17 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Draper point
... that the Draper point is the temperature at which almost all solids begin to glow?
Really sorry but the article is only 592 characters and the minimum is 1500. Is there any way you could add more explanation to it? —mattisse (Talk) 14:26, 17 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Dante Troisi
... that Italian writer Dante Troisi chronicled the difficulties of his job as a judge in post-WWII Italy in the novel Diario di un giudice (Diary of a Judge)?
The hook is cited, but nothing else is. Could you please add inline citations to the article so that there is at least one per paragraph? I'm also a tad concerned that the article relies on only one reference. Are there no more references available to you? –Katerenka(talk)03:09, 18 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Added the additional inline citations, and found a reference to an award he won in 2005, perhaps it would even make a better DYK:
... that the title of the Bob Dylan song "The Wicked Messenger" mirrors a Proverbs passage, which reads "A wicked messenger falleth into mischief; but a faithful ambassador is health"?
Comment - I've created this page out of a redirect, so I suppose if this isn't a "new" article it would count as a 5x expansion. - I.M.S. (talk) 03:29, 17 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
... that General Lucius D. Clay(pictured) justified U.S. food policy in occupied Germany, as "Germans should suffer from hunger and from cold ... to make them realize the consequences of a war which they caused"?
Length and date verified. The rules say that a reference is needed immediately after the hook is stated in the article, so amend that and this should be good to go. Mm40 (talk) 00:19, 17 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Ref checks out now. I would suggest trimming 'world championship' out of the hook, as he was also the first to win just an Olympic medal regardless, so there's no need for an extra qualifier. rʨanaɢtalk/contribs05:34, 18 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Buy my point is, it's not necessary to cram every fact you can into the hook. First Olympic medal is already a true and interesting fact; adding more stuff to the hook actually makes it sound like he accomplished less (i.e., implies that he wasn't the first to get an Olympic medal, but was the first to do that while also doing X) and makes the hook less interesting. rʨanaɢtalk/contribs14:34, 18 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Whereas the nomination looks fine and I have no doubt about the fact, it needs a more clear and recent ref in the article. (The date of ref. 1 is uncertain to me, and it merely points to a portal). Materialscientist (talk) 02:23, 17 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Just wanted to offer that, but I think the first hook is better, because outside of the Pacific Northwest who has heard of Chinook Jargon? - Jmabel | Talk20:56, 16 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
See the last sentence in Siege of Astorga which reads: "The Irish Legion led the charge over the wall, and suffered heavy losses: Captain John Allen's company's drummer boy continued to beat the charge after having lost both legs, for which he was given the French Legion of Honor." If the hook needs to be in both articles, I wasn't aware of it, but I've added it now. Fleetflame · whack! whack! · 01:15, 19 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
... that in a 1981 case, Judge Fred C. Galda allowed a woman to claim she shot her husband in self-defense, making him the first judge in New Jersey to accept a battered woman defense in a spousal killing?
Suggest alt that includes the article title in bold: ... that STS-1, the first orbital flight of the Space Shuttle program, was launched 20 years to the day of the launch of the first human space flight?
... after fighting in six wars throughout Europe and Russia, General Hotze, of the Austrian imperial army, was shot by French soldiers at the Second Battle of Zurich at Schänis, within 20 miles (32 km) of the village in which he had been born?
alt1= ... on the morning of 25 September 1799, General Hotze was killed by French soldiers 32 kilometres (20 mi) from the village in which he had been born?
alt2=... on 25 September 1799, at the Second Battle of Zurich, General Hotze and his chief of staff were reconnoitering in the early morning near the village of Schänis, 32 kilometres (20 mi) from the village in which he had been born, when he was killed by French soldiers?
comment: hook and citation are in the 3rd to last paragraph, citation #21. Both citations agree on where he was born and died. I measured the distance using the mapquest feature, and double checked it with Shtetlseeker.
The ref linked in the first paragraph does not mention the date of his arrival, and in the article itself the source that proves the dat says he arrived in 1681 and left in 1682. Why does the hook say 1682? Geraldk (talk) 02:14, 18 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Picky things: no reason to link the years and the dash should be "and". The latter is talked about here in the "Nasty inflation" example. Mm40 (talk) 21:44, 19 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
... that Jason Aldean said his 2009 single "The Truth" was "one of those songs that I heard the first time and knew I wanted to cut"?
Comment: This article is qualified with (Trent Willmon song) because Willmon recorded the song first. I have been told that song articles should qualify with the first artist to record the song, even if another artist's version is more popular.
It states all routes in the article start and stop at the Hamilton Station; however, that isn't the case with route 6 (both in the article and website). Can the hook be adjusted to address this. Maybe a hook addressing that they use pink buses? Otherwise date, length, and sources verified. ♠ B.s.n.♥R.N.contribs17:06, 16 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Maury, have you missed the countless discussions about this at WT:DYK? If the lack of citations is a serious problem, this is still a valid reason to delay the nom (there may not be an explicit rule, but there is a general rule that articles with major problems can be rejected). Plus, many of your nominations over the past year or so (at least) have been rejected for this, so by now you of all people should know better. Geraldk's concern stands. rʨanaɢtalk/contribs14:46, 18 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I think this comes under common knowledge sourcing. Needless to say, the linked article describing the operation of 1,000 aircraft and a dozen NATO nations gives the scale of the bombing of Belgrade. There are even threeseparatearticles about specific bombing targets in the city. If a citation is really needed then this will suffice I suppose, but it really is a vague description of a well-known fact. Sillyfolkboy (talk) (edits)Join WikiProject Athletics!10:25, 18 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It's common knowledge for those who a. were around and b. were aware. My 12 yr old students probably have no idea it even happened, let alone how much damage was done to Belgrade. Hence the need for a source. For comparison, let me ask you if you know whether there was widespread damage to Port Arthur during the Russo-Japanese war? I suspect people at the time may have argued that it was common knowledge. A side issue - the article itself must include the fact in the hook, and while the article mentions the bombing campaign it does not mention damage of any kind. Geraldk (talk) 12:39, 18 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The alt hook is not necessarily correct - IIRC in Pennsylvania Dept. of Corrections v. Yeskey, 524 U.S. 206, the Supreme Court already held that ADA extends to state prisons. In addition, to the extent that there was a constitutional violation (which is what the Supreme Court limited its holding to in this case), relief is already available under 42 U.S.C. Section 1983 under longstanding precedent. Tim Song (talk) 14:55, 16 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I think it's best to use "no supreme court decision required US prison systems". Per [1] there was a circuit split with the Ninth Circuit, which means that prison systems in there are required to provide ADA accommodation. Tim Song (talk) 17:16, 17 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Expansion, date, refs hooks look fine, but I've got a few nasty questions: (i) I would favor ALT1, but to me the text "after the 2000 .." only diverts from the subject. Delete? (ii) Could you briefly explain why Brianhe is in the nominators? (no edits to the article - sorry, we're instructed to ask such things) (iii) Why harvard referencing when all refs are used only once? Whatever the MOS and rules, it seems simply as duplicating all the 51 references. Materialscientist (talk) 09:33, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
By all means, edit the hook to suit. Another way of making it shorter might be to try
"... that the 1999 Suzuki Hayabusa clinched its status as the fastest motorcycle of the 20th century after the 2000 Ninja ZX-12R was speed-restricted by a manufacturers' gentleman's agreement?"
Whatever you think is best. The main relevance of 2000 is that it is the last year of the 20th century, which perhaps should be Wikilinked or maybe not.
I forgot to mention that most of the work was done on this workpage: Talk:Suzuki Hayabusa/Workpage. Brianhe's edits are there. I'm not sure what you mean about the citations being used only once. For example, "Brown (2005) pp. 242-243, 276-277" is used 8 times, in addition to "Brown (2005) pp. 284-285". Similarly, Carrithers (2006) is referenced once with a specific quote and two more times without. Footnote #1 cites two references. So it's a many to many relationship. But I am beginning to think that while I prefer Harvard, it does seem to generate controversy.--Dbratland (talk) 15:05, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Argh, again my unclear writing. Let me rephrase: (i) I suggest ALT2 ... that the 1999 Suzuki Hayabusa was named the fastest motorcycle of the 20th century? ("was named" might be improved, off course). (iii) Harvard is only good if you refer to different pages of one book in different notes. Easier to give an example from the article: If I were writing, I would replace "Ford (2003)" in the notes by "Ford, Dexter (August 2003), Grudge Match, Motorcyclist: 34-35" from references and delete the latter from "references" - it is just a 2-page article. Same for most others. Off course, you are right about the Brown (2005) references. The trouble is I can't find that (book?) in the article Materialscientist (talk) 22:50, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I would have originally said it was named fastest of the 20th c., except I only have a magazine article that says the Guinness Book did award that title, but I haven't yet gotten my hands on the actual 2000 or 2001 edition of the Guinness Book to verify they did (I will in a few days; 2000 and 2001 are not in Google Books either). So "was named" is sourced, but not as well as it could be. Maybe I'm being too picky. On the other hand, I don't think it's original research to deduce that if was the fastest ever in 1999, and everything went slower in 2000, then it was the fastest of the 20th century, whether we can cite directly that it was named the fastest or not. I'm comfortable with either phrasing if you are.
Brown's 2005 book, The ultimate history of fast motorcycles, went missing -- fixed now.
If you agree, I would provisionally approve ALT2 (I have no doubt about the fact), but if no rush, would wait a bit for your possible look in the 2000 Guinness book. I know about FAs. No MOS or FA rules oblige using any citation system. Ironically, even repeating identical citation in the ref. list is allowed, and there was a lengthy FA discussion on that recently. It is just up to your common sense. I can't understand repeating short refs, but that's I. Materialscientist (talk) 06:25, 16 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
OK. I'm probably going to quit using short footnotes since it seems to keep generating discussion, and the benefits are small. The part about preying on blackbirds is a nice hook too -- it was interesting enough to be mentioned in most of the articles, and I've footnoted a quote attributing it directly to Suzuki. Fastest of the 20th century is slightly absurd -- why not fastest of the millennium? Or fastest of the last 1,000,000 years? The real technical feat of the Hayabusa is that it is an all-around rideable bike, and not super-specialized being the fastest at the expense of everything else. But it's hard to say that in 200 characters.--Dbratland (talk) 16:00, 16 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
While investigating how to disambiguate sonogram, I clicked on the article's sixth reference by Joe Coscarelli. As best I remember, it wanted me to click a button to download some software, with an explanation written in computerese. Fearing malware, I hit the back button. No response. I tried to X off the entire browser. No response. So I restarted my operating system. Rather than risk further exposure to possible malware, I haven't gone back to that website to confirm that I have described it accurately. Art LaPella (talk) 23:45, 19 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Article expansion date verified, length not currently at 5x ((prior 2385 currently 10401 (4.3x)). Would you be able to expand it slightly within the next couple of days? Is an interesting article. Thank you ♠ B.s.n.♥R.N.contribs16:47, 18 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Unfortunately, I am currently under a "Russia" topic ban, and I am not allowed to edit on things relating to Russia or Russians. I have information which can be included in the article, in the privatisation process section, but because it relates to a Russian businessman, I am unable to add the information to the article, which would bump the article just over the 5x expansion requirement, and thereby making it eligible for DYK. Perhaps another editor wouldn't mind doing a search for information and adding the information to the article. --RussaviaDialogue17:06, 18 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I have tried to expand it as much as possible, and have come up 11,947 characters of prose, which is around 25 characters over the 5x expansion? --RussaviaDialogue18:37, 18 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Also, the hook is unastounding considering hundreds of players every year de-commit and commit somewhere else. Is there any alt available?--Giants27(c|s) 02:39, 18 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Rather a split-up article. If accepting that all those details are useful (which I can't really tell) then keeping them in one article would be too inconvenient. Materialscientist (talk) 09:52, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
A grammatically valid way to formulate this would be:
Well, according to this article, they need to pass it through parliament a second time before it is fully ratified. Ucucha11:33, 16 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I still find the language in ALT2 unwieldily, and all attempts to clear it with the mention of hungary still in there failed. Suggest removing Hungary entirely. Maury Markowitz (talk) 14:44, 16 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The idea with putting Hungary in is to show not only a bit of trivial history, but also to show this has been going on for almost two years. ALT2 or 4 are fine with me.-- Patrick {oѺ∞} 16:18, 18 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
... that guitarist Dave Davies of The Kinks(pictured) created the signature buzzing, distorted guitar sound of the 1964 hit "You Really Got Me" by slitting the speaker cone on his Elpico amplifier?
Comment: I began expanding this article quite a bit a few days ago. If someone could verify how much it has been expanded, and/or how much more it needs to be expanded (if this is the case), I would truly appreciate it. If the article need a little bit more added to it, I'll be happy to add that little bit. Many thanks - I.M.S. (talk) 00:58, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
You've close to doubled it. Would need to be approximately 35k characters to have been expanded fivefold in the last five days, have under 15k. Another issue is that significant portions of the article are not referenced, hence the dispute tag. Geraldk (talk) 02:18, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Would it be alright if I worked on it over the next few days and try to expand and improve it? I'm not sure if I could manage 35k, but I'll try my best. - I.M.S. (talk) 03:09, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Or better yet, use DYKcheck, which we prefer to prosesize.js because it performs the same function and more, and because it's no harder to use (with or without installing). Art LaPella (talk) 04:54, 18 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
... that Ritchie Yorke instigated and organized the first political meeting between a pop star and a prime minister? This meeting was between John Lennon and Pierre Trudeau.
More than half of the article is missing inline citations, and I can't see the hook as stated here in the article. Also, the hook itself needs to be reworded for style and clarity. --RussaviaDialogue10:23, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
... that the two surviving Invincible-classbattlecruisers carried two Sopwith fighters in 1918 on flying-off ramps fitted on top of 'P' and 'Q' turrets and that each platform had a canvas hangar to protect the aircraft during inclement weather?
... that between October 1972 and February 1973, while the original members of The Byrds reunited for the Byrds album, two different line-ups of the band existed concurrently, with Roger McGuinn being the only member common to both groups?
A bigger problem is that the article's prose, which we define to exclude the lists and references from Byrds (album)#Personnel onwards, has not been expanded fivefold as described at F1 (unless one of the hard-to-detect exceptions applies). 15500/3771=4.1x expansion. We encourage nominators in this situation to add more prose. Art LaPella (talk) 02:53, 17 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
OK, I've reworded the first hook so that it actually features a link to the article in question. As for the article's length, that's a shame, I was aware that it was a little less than a x5 expansion but I hoped that it was near enough. I'll have to try expanding the article and get back to you. --Kohoutek1138 (talk) 11:46, 17 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Miguel Angel Sano
... that if Dominican baseball player Miguel Angel Sano signs with the Minnesota Twins, he will receive the largest bonus for a Latin American player from outside of Cuba in 2009, and the second highest bonus ever for a Dominican amateur?
ALT: "... that if Dominican baseball player Miguel Angel Sano signs with the Minnesota Twins, it would be the highest international signing bonus in Twins history, more than the Twins spent on 70 international prospects from 2006–08 combined?" (No objection to rewording either hook. A hook could also be designed for the controversy surrounding his age and the investigations that have been conducted, see article for details.) GlassCobra15:00, 16 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Yusei Kikuchi
... that Japanese high school pitcher Yusei Kikuchi could be the first player to bypass a domestic draft and come play for a Major League Baseball team?
ALT: "... that if Japanese high school pitcher Yusei Kikuchi bypasses his domestic draft and comes to play for a Major League Baseball team, he will be the first to do so?" (No objections to rewording the hook, improvements welcome over my clumsy attempts here. Basically, Kikuchi could be the first player to bypass the Japanese draft and come to America to play for MLB.) GlassCobra14:30, 16 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Source does not mention Streamline moderne and building does not look nautical or curved; Streamline moderne is not same as Moderne. P.4 mentions the "influence of modernistic ideas" and P. 6 discuss those details which "recall the more modernist characteristics of the Art Deco and Moderne styles". It does not exactly say the details are "touches" or elements of Art Deco or Moderne. Maybe okay paraphrasing if "streamline" is left out. doncram (talk) 04:53, 19 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
... that the tall stone Lhasa Zhol Pillar (c. 764 CE), which stands neglected below the Potala Palace, is inscribed with the oldest known Tibetan writing and records the capture of the Chinese capital in 763?
Created by John Hill (talk). Self nom at 15:38 14 October 2009(UTC)
The end of this is incredibly vague. How was it a mistake? To which side? Why not a better Alt about it being the biggest US defeat in the conflict? Skinny87 (talk) 11:07, 13 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
ALT 1: ... that the first Chinese encounter with the US forces during the Korean War, which resulted in the destruction of the US 8th Cavalry Regiment at the Battle of Unsan, is considered to be an accident by the Chinese military?
I don't see much sense in this 267 character hook, merely introducing two alternative names, and do suggest renaming the article into Brown's Congo and find a better hook. This long name is not fun, but nuisance as some fields (like edit summary) can't properly handle it. Materialscientist (talk) 11:53, 13 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The technology should serve the needs of the encyclopedia, not the other way around, so I don't see much of a problem with this.
The hook doesn't do more than introducing two alternative names, but I do think that it will elicit interest into the article, which is what DYK hooks should do. It is too long, true, but if ever there was an article for which that rule should be ignored, this would be it. Ucucha12:01, 13 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
One chooses the most appropriate name for the article, not the most convenient name for the DYK hook. If the length of the name prevents it appearing on DYK, so be it. Hesperian15:14, 13 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The cuteness of the hook is in the name, and its length really prevents much else from going in. I thought it was good, as does Hesp. Matter of opinion really. Not sure what else we can do. Casliber (talk·contribs) 19:42, 13 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I understand, but this looks like a show-off. Hundreds (if not thousands) of documents of that time had long, funny sounding (to us now) names like this. This does not mean we should revert to that style and (re)name all WP articles. Materialscientist (talk) 22:56, 13 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
That is an odd argument. Has anyone suggested we should rename all Wikipedia articles in the style of 19th century documents? Does using the title of a 19th century document as the title of an article on that document imply anything at all about article titles in general? If you don't like the hook, that's fine; but your comments on the appropriateness of the title are both incoherent and off-topic. Hesperian02:47, 14 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
No hard feelings. To me, this is a policy argument - long names are simply inconvenient to handle and do not appear nice when bolded in a hook. If others think its fine for DYK, I would gladly accept that. Materialscientist (talk) 03:12, 14 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Per materialscientist, this name is much too unwieldy, and in any case it violates WP:MOS which states that the most common name should be used, which by the article's own admission is "Brown's Congo". Gatoclass (talk) 05:51, 14 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
WP:MOS says no such thing. Nor does WP:NC, which is what you probably meant. And the article does not say that. Three strikes; you're out. :-) Hesperian00:25, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
NC is a subpage of MOS. And the article clearly states that "Brown's Congo" is what the book "became known at the time". As to your final point, I note that NC-BK has only recently been changed to state that "the title" should be used rather than the most common name. So I'd say that's more like three balls on your part. Gatoclass (talk) 02:38, 16 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I would question the use of this particular title for the article as well. As seen at this image, which is identified as being the original publication of this work, the original title was Observations, Systematical and Geographical, on Professor Christian Smith's Collection of Plants from the Vicinity of the River Congo. That's a long title, but it's something like 100 characters shorter than the one currently being used for the article. It's not clear to me that the use of the current extremely long title comports with Wikipedia:Naming conventions (books). --Metropolitan90(talk)03:23, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, I noticed a few hours ago. I had been going by this version. I agree that a move may be warranted. But I'll have to check my other sources first; Brown had a habit of giving his offprints/preprints slightly different names to the original publications (see, for example, On the Proteaceae of Jussieu), and in that case all we can really do is use the name preferred by reliable sources, regardless of whether that is the "original" name. Hesperian03:36, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Google hits gives a rough idea what I'm talking about. If we exclude Wikimedia projects, the "on Professor" version gets 9 hits, and the "on the herbarium" version gets nearly 300! Hesperian03:49, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Assuming that the "on the herbarium" version is the more appropriate version to use, it would then seem that the proper title under Wikipedia:Naming conventions (books)#Subtitles would be Observations, Systematical and Geographical, on the Herbarium Collected by Professor Christian Smith, in the Vicinity of the Congo. Looking at the version you cited, since "Congo" is the last word on the title page to be printed in large type, "during the expedition to explore that river, under the command of Captain Tuckey, in the year 1816" should get relegated to being a subtitle and left out of the title of the Wikipedia page. Alternatively, the main title could even be cut off after the word "Herbarium" as that appears to be printed in the largest size of type. --Metropolitan90(talk)13:52, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I think it would probably make more sense, if you're going to go down this route, to use Observations, Systematical and Geographical, on the Herbarium Collected by Professor Christian Smith. If you stop at "Herberium", I don't think it identifies the work sufficiently. Gatoclass (talk) 02:16, 16 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
On second thoughts, assuming that "most common name" no longer applies to book titles, which seems to be the case, then I think it would probably make more sense to end at the word "Congo", as Metropolitan has suggested, as the rest can be considered a subtitle. That is where other resources appear to assume the subtitle begins. Gatoclass (talk) 02:54, 16 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
ALT1... that the Casa Paoli(pictured) was a wedding gift to the parents of the Puerto RicantenorAntonio Paoli, who already had five children together at the time of their marriage?
ALT 1 is closer to the source, to be honest Teatro La Perla can be expanded by itself, so maybe its better to avoid using it in an unrelated DYK. - Caribbean~H.Q.22:56, 17 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I like ALT 1 better for being closer to the source, too. To unwrap it differently, so it does not start to seem that it was Antonio who had 5 children already, how about:
ALT3... that Puerto RicantenorAntonio Paoli's birthplace, the Casa Paoli(pictured), was a wedding gift to his parents, who already had five children together at the time of their marriage?
That gets in "birthplace" as well, conveying Paoli was not one of the first-five born (he was 7th of 8 actually), and more importance for the house. doncram (talk) 23:17, 18 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Fir'im
... that after the former Palestinian Safad village of Fir'im was depopulated in 1948, the Israeli settlement of Hatzor HaGlilit was established in 1953 about 1 kilometre southeast of the former village?
... that there are five main types of metalcasting defects: gas porosity, shrinkage defects, mold material defects, pouring metal defects, and metallurgical defects?
(i) A few "citation needed" tags need to be taken care of; (ii) the article (and maybe the hook) should comment on the cast materials being considered. Is it only metals? (iii) The reference says that those 5 are major in sand casting. Is it correct to generalize the hook on other types (die casting, for example)? A few words on that would be nice in the article. Materialscientist (talk) 10:43, 17 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I've addressed point 2 and noted that the article is in reference to metal casting. I've also updated the hook to reflect that. As for point 1, I don't know of any DYK rules that prevent them from being in a DYK article as long as they don't compromise the hook. As for point 3, you are correct that the ref states that it is in reference to sand casting, however the they are also perfectly applicable to any other metal casting method. I'll see if I can find a ref. Wizard191 (talk) 16:59, 18 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Date, Length good - references are all arranged very neatly at the bottom of the page. Offline refs accepted in GF. Good to go - I.M.S. (talk) 01:06, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Great article, but I'm sure all fellow severe arachnophobes on here will be grateful – paceWP:NOTCENSORED – if this image is not featured on the home page... I jump every time I see it and take a while to calm down. Ericoides (talk) 10:52, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
This is a very technical article, so I don't think there are any "scary" hooks. If the above hook is not scary enough for Halloween, then just leave it here. --Bruce1eetalk14:10, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The New York Times Magazine had a 6-page article about it, mainly because this is the first study to investigate the effects of prolonged calorie restriction in healthy humans. Prior longevity studies dealt with laboratory animals. I added a sentence to this effect to the article. AxelBoldt (talk) 04:02, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
comment: The idea that reducing calorie intake improves lifespan is interesting. I'm guessing that was what the NYT article was on. A particular research group with a name and a logo that is looking at a notable idea is maybe not itself notable.... until they get a nobel prize and then ... Victuallers (talk) 13:27, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The Economist had an article about it as well, listed in the article. Lexis Nexis search for "CALERIE" gives 41 hits internationally. PubMed gives 17 hits. AxelBoldt (talk) 13:08, 16 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I've heard the idea long ago, but perhaps many people have not, and I think popularizing it would only do good. Indeed, the novelty here is not the idea, but the large-scale, long-term experiment on humans. It might be too recent for books. A comment from a doctor would be appreciated. Otherwise I would promote this nom. Materialscientist (talk) 12:14, 17 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, thanks for your review! Of course more RS would be better. Actually, however, the few inline citations cover nonetheless practically all of the content of the article -how many references we need for the plot? As per the citation needed tag, I agree, even if I remark that, given the plot of both is documented, to declare that the premises are obviously similar is more matter for WP:COMMONSENSE than for WP:SYNTHESIS. If you anyway have detailed suggestions on how to improve the inline citation coverage, let me know. Thanks again. --Cyclopia - talk21:45, 12 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Also, I noticed that articles above show 4-5 references, on par with this one, but have been deemed OK. This is fine, but I would like to know more details on which criteria should I satisfy. --Cyclopia - talk21:48, 12 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Sure, and all fair questions. General practice is to look for a minimum of one reference per paragraph. In particular with an article like this, this is to make clear that the article is not original research. You may also want to read this. Geraldk (talk) 22:31, 12 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I strongly recommend researching reliable sources before labeling any pop song Slavic (sic) folk. It might be folk but not as old as it seems. NVO (talk) 21:09, 12 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Pagan has unclear meaning, and the article neither explains nor provide refs on why it was renamed. Actually, I don't see any reason why this article should be promoted at DYK - nothing appealing there, IMO. Materialscientist (talk) 10:42, 13 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, my mistake, but. Reading the references brings a new picture - that the lyrics was lost and rewriten recently. There is also quite a story behind the renaming, association with a "heretic" folk celebration, etc. If all this is reflected in the article, it might become more interesting. Also, the ambiguity in the pagan article needs to be fixed by some comment. Materialscientist (talk) 03:19, 14 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
This Russian source mentions an original lyrics coming from the 10th century. The song, even if not predated the Christianization of Kievan Rus', was about Slavic gods, that's why one can apply the words "pagan" or "polytheistic". But it's a matter of choice still...Brand[t] 19:46, 14 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Let me clarify, if the article is enriched with the pertinent historical details, which came up in this thread and in the quoted references, it can be suitable for DYK. In the present form, it simply posts and explains the song lyrics, which would hardly be interesting to DYK readers. Materialscientist (talk) 05:54, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
ClearCurve
... that Corning'sClearCurveoptical cable is hundreds of times more flexible than conventional fibers, allowing it to be pulled through walls and around sharp corners in fiber to the home installations?
Honestly, I like the article, but fear unjustified claims (specifically, the hook says "hundreds of times"). Ref. 5 is a self-citation by Corning, a page advertising their own product. Ref. 6 does not say hundreds and I have some reservation about its language ("just one tight turn around the bookcase and the signal is kaput". Questionable :-). A modest and well-referenced claim should pass. Materialscientist (talk) 06:13, 15 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
This Corning landing page (ref 5) states, and I quote, "Corning ClearCurve single-mode optical fiber is hundreds of times more bendable than standard single-mode fiber". I realize that claims an amazing advance in the state of fiber, but that's why it should be in DYK.
What exactly is your "fear" based on? Do you have any reason to suspect this hook isn't perfectly accurate? If you don't believe that Corning's own claims of Corning's own products are accurate, can you demonstrate this "fear" with your own 1st party, credible references? Maury Markowitz (talk) 14:28, 16 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I believe a DYK hook, which is based on a one-sentence popular advertisement by a company of its own product, is at least questionable. You should know better than I that the majority of such ads are "not exactly accurate". Also, I could define "hundreds of times more bendable" in several ways and would expect the article to be clear on that rather than leave me guessing. So, if you please set aside your usual biting of the referees and fixed that point, this nom could be rectified in no time. Materialscientist (talk) 00:18, 17 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The article needs a thorough copyedit, and we need a new hook. His playing football and managing the PBA team seem to have nothing to do with each other, so it doesn't make sense that they would be linked in this way in a hook. Geraldk (talk) 00:46, 17 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It just seemed odd that a person who played football in his teens managed a basketball team later in life. It;s like Sir Alex who'd manage the Lakers. –HowardtheDuck03:17, 17 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It isn't clear from the original hook that the distinction you suggest is the point of the hook. Proposed alts:
Note: Articles nominated for a special occasion should be nominated within five days of creation or expansion as usual (with the exception of April Fools'). Also, articles should be nominated at least five days before the occasion to give reviewers time to check the nomination.
Articles for Oct 31 - Halloween ... See special page below
... that on every Wednesday and Saturday, all demons assemble to give an account of their activities to their king?
ALT1:... that on every Wednesday and Saturday, all demons assemble to give an account of their activities to their king, and later engage in merry–making?
Comment: Demons partying... those guys must be so cool :P
... that the 1928silentactionfilm serialHaunted Island featured episodes with titles such as "The Phantom Rider," "The Haunted Room," "The Fires of Fury," and "Buried Alive"?
Article fails to adequately deal with the topic and just barely meets length requirements. It just has the list of episode titles, a very short synopsis, and 3 "production" sentences. To have eight sources, surely more can be said? Also, what makes the titles "lurid"? or interesting? -- Collectonian (talk·contribs) 01:56, 16 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
That is a matter of opinion whether the article "fails to adequately deal with the topic..." It is only Start-class, not C-class, B-class, or GA. If it meets length requirements, it meets length requirements. Any assertion that "surely more can be said" questions whether a lost film (which has not been seen since 1928) can be described more fully. Do you have inside knowledge which supports this claim? Have you read the sources cited? One person's "lurid" ("shocking, horrifying; melodramatic") is another person's "tame," although I think there is a clear case in favor of judging "Phantom Rider" and "Buried Alive" as lurid (e.g., melodramatic). - Tim1965 (talk) 14:52, 16 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm... this looks good enough to me. But whatever problems there may be with the article are surely not enough to reject the hook straight away? Maybe until (and if) any improvements can be made, but this shouldn't be rejected outright for such a small problem IMO. ≈ Chamaltalk¤15:42, 16 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Adequate coverage of the topic is a criteria for a DYK. It is "classified" as Start because someone put it there. As someone who works with film articles, I'd call it a stub, not a start. There is little information in teh article, and there is a reasonable expectation that if there are eight sources mentioning it, that something else can be said about it beyond what is there. If not, I'd question its notability at all, if those eight sources do nothing but mention it in passing. I see nothing "lurid" about any of those titles, but if it is a direct quote from a source, it should be quoted as such. -- Collectonian (talk·contribs) 17:36, 16 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Reeri Yakseya
... that Reeri Yakseya, who is believed to be the most cruel and powerful demon in Sinhalese folklore, can assume 18 different apparitions?
ALT1:... that Reeri Yakseya stands beside dying men, holding a rooster and a club in his hands and a human corpse in his mouth?
Comment: Shorter than the previous one (and just past the character limit), but worth a shot I think.
... that Unthanksgiving day is held annually on Alcatraz Island to serve as a counterpoint to the traditional Thanksgiving story and to give thanks for Native American survival in the face of genocide?
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- Refs and hook good, length and date check out. Great job on this article - I hadn't noticed it was created (I happen to be rather interested in Beerbohm and Rossetti). - I.M.S. (talk) 20:57, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
Length, creation date and in-line refs all check out. Offline reference (JSTOR access) for hook accepted in good faith. Nick Ottery (talk) 08:34, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
Date and length verified. Hook verified; however, source for hook is a bare url. Could you reference the source from the ref web templete? Thanks ♠ B.s.n. ♥R.N.contribs 17:31, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
DYKCheck says that it's not quite long enough (1456 characters). Also don't really know what's unusual about the hook, I think a lot of artists re-record songs from previous albums. -- BigDom 19:57, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
Done Good point! Corrected above. Thank you! PHG Per Honor et Gloria 05:40, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
Most of the article's text is taken word for word from the source. It's PD, but nonetheless violates DYK rules. Geraldk (talk) 02:53, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
I wasn't going to do a Halloween DYK, but I saw this picture ....jpg)
thanks Victuallers (talk) 16:58, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
.png){kind=link}
fine ... I prefer the first as sadly many watery spots have suicides Victuallers (talk) 16:46, 18 October 2009 (UTC)