*'''Strong oppose'''. We had this out with the last Apple or Windows product or whatever (probably both), but we are not here to advertise new products. [[User:Grapple X|<span style="color:#556655"><small>'''GRAPPLE'''</small></span>]] [[User talk:Grapple X|<span style="color:#556655"><small>'''X'''</small></span>]] 16:38, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
*'''Strong oppose'''. We had this out with the last Apple or Windows product or whatever (probably both), but we are not here to advertise new products. [[User:Grapple X|<span style="color:#556655"><small>'''GRAPPLE'''</small></span>]] [[User talk:Grapple X|<span style="color:#556655"><small>'''X'''</small></span>]] 16:38, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
* '''Oppose''' - While I'm a VG editor and would love to see a major announcement in the area on the FP ITN, we usually don't post such stories. Moreso, while Sony has announced it - that announcement was pretty much announcing vaporware - no hardware was shown, no price given, and so many things still in flux. It really is not a proper announcement that, if we were considering such product announcements as ITN, I would still be hesistant to include. --[[User:Masem|M<font size="-3">ASEM</font>]] ([[User Talk:Masem|t]]) 16:40, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' there seems to be an eminently reasonable consensus against new commercial roll-outs. [[User:Medeis|μηδείς]] ([[User talk:Medeis|talk]]) 16:40, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
This candidates page is integrated with the daily pages of Portal:Current events. A light green header appears under each daily section - it includes transcluded Portal:Current events items for that day. You can discuss ITN candidates under the header.
Blurbs are one-sentence summaries of the news story.
Altblurbs, labelled alt1, alt2, etc., are alternative suggestions to cover the same story.
A target article, bolded in text, is the focus of the story. Each blurb must have at least one such article, but you may also link non-target articles.
Articles in the Ongoing line describe events getting continuous coverage.
The Recent deaths (RD) line includes any living thing whose death was recently announced. Consensus may decide to create a blurb for a recent death.
All articles linked in the ITN template must pass our standards of review. They should be up-to-date, demonstrate relevance via good sourcing and have at least an acceptable quality.
Nomination steps
Make sure the item you want to nominate has an article that meets our minimum requirements and contains reliable coverage of a current event you want to create a blurb about. We will not post about events described in an article that fails our quality standards.
Find the correct section below for the date of the event (not the date nominated). Do not add sections for new dates manually - a bot does that for us each day at midnight (UTC).
Create a level 4 header with the article name (==== Your article here ====). Add (RD) or (Ongoing) if appropriate.
Then paste the {{ITN candidate}} template with its parameters and fill them in. The news source should be reliable, support your nomination and be in the article. Write your blurb in simple present tense. Below the template, briefly explain why we should post that event. After that, save your edit. Your nomination is ready!
You may add {{ITN note}} to the target article's talk page to let editors know about your nomination.
The better your article's quality, the better it covers the event and the wider its perceived significance (see WP:ITNSIGNIF for details), the better your chances of getting the blurb posted.
When the article is ready, updated and there is consensus to post, you can mark the item as (Ready). Remove that wording if you feel the article fails any of these necessary criteria.
Admins should always separately verify whether these criteria are met before posting blurbs marked (Ready). For more guidance, check WP:ITN/A.
If satisfied, change the header to (Posted).
Where there is no consensus, or the article's quality remains poor, change the header to (Closed) or (Not posted).
Sometimes, editors ask to retract an already-posted nomination because of a fundamental error or because consensus changed. If you feel the community supports this, remove the item and mark the item as (Pulled).
Voicing an opinion on an item
Format your comment to contain "support" or "oppose", and include a rationale for your choice. In particular, address the notability of the event, the quality of the article, and whether it has been updated.
Pick an older item to review near the bottom of this page, before the eligibility runs out and the item scrolls off the page and gets abandoned in the archive, unused and forgotten.
Review an item even if it has already been reviewed by another user. You may be the first to spot a problem, or the first to confirm that an identified problem was fixed. Piling on the list of "support!" votes will help administrators see what is ready to be posted on the Main Page.
Tell about problems in articles if you see them. Be bold and fix them yourself if you know how, or tell others if it's not possible.
Add simple "support!" or "oppose!" votes without including your reasons. Similarly, curt replies such as "who?", "meh", or "duh!" are not helpful. A vote without reasoning means little for us, please elaborate yourself.
Oppose an item just because the event is only relating to a single country, or failing to relate to one. We post a lot of such content, so these comments are generally unproductive.
Accuse other editors of supporting, opposing or nominating due to a personal bias (such as ethnocentrism). We at ITN do not handle conflicts of interest.
Comment on a story without first reading the relevant article(s).
At least 61 people are killed and more than 200 injured following a car bombing near Syria's Baath Party headquarters in Damascus. Three other bombings kill 22 people and injure 50 others in the suburb of Barzeh, most of them government soldiers. These are the deadliest attacks in the Syrian capital since the outbreak of the civil war. (Reuters)(AP)(BBC)(The Wall Street Journal)
A watchdog group releases a report that details write-downs of $19 billion on more than 168,000 properties by five United States banks. Under terms of a federal and state settlement of foreclosure-processing violations reached one year ago in March, Bank of America lost the most and had $13.5 billion in homeowner debts written off. The other banks are Citigroup Inc, JPMorgan Chase & Co, Wells Fargo & Co, and Ally Financial Inc. (FoxBusiness)[permanent dead link]
Retired police sergeantDrew Peterson, whose fourth wife, Stacy Peterson, disappeared in 2007, is sentenced by the US state of Illinois to 38 years incarceration for the 2004 murder of his third wife, Kathleen Savio. (AP)
Nominator's comments: An announcement concerned with the release of a new gaming console is a very big deal and important development in this technological sub-field. The news has received a widespread media coverage and tops the news related to technology worldwide. --Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 16:32, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Strong oppose. We had this out with the last Apple or Windows product or whatever (probably both), but we are not here to advertise new products. GRAPPLEX16:38, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - While I'm a VG editor and would love to see a major announcement in the area on the FP ITN, we usually don't post such stories. Moreso, while Sony has announced it - that announcement was pretty much announcing vaporware - no hardware was shown, no price given, and so many things still in flux. It really is not a proper announcement that, if we were considering such product announcements as ITN, I would still be hesistant to include. --MASEM (t) 16:40, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Comment More recent stories take the deaths number to atleast 15 and injuries to 50.It's the first major blast in India in years.Also the first one in Hyderabad in almost 6 years. TheStrikeΣagle14:39, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Conditional support pending confirmation that it was an act of terrorism or other deliberate act; from what I can read it's not entirely clear yet. Also pending article updates. 331dot (talk) 14:49, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Wait Lets not jump to conclusions. Lets stop posing as investigators or crime scene experts or foreign policy experts or social scientists. Wait for the confirmation from the officials. The incident happened just under 2 hours ago. Lets not be caught media frenzy.Regards, theTigerKing15:20, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Article needs updating Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Oppose. I don't see this as meeting any of the three criteria for the ticker. Was not in an office of power, not particularly notable in their field (this isn't Adam Lanza or the Beltway sniper), and international impact is limited. 331dot (talk) 11:25, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It has nothing to do with the murderer being Japanese or being executed by Japan; he only had three victims. Pardon my examples; that's what I'm most familiar with, but where this person is from is not relevant. 331dot (talk) 12:01, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
What? Absolutely not, just look at the vigorous opposition to the "Chris Dorner" nomination. Why does everyone assume that Americans have a predominant advantage for appearing on WP:ITN when, if anything, the opposite is true?--WaltCip (talk) 14:22, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's comments: News of Earth-sized exoplanets are not very rare these days, but this just reported planetary system has two of them which are smaller than Earth, and one of them is almost the size of the Moon. Nergaal (talk) 08:04, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support - From the linked Science News article: "The record for the smallest planet beyond our Solar System has been shattered by astronomers." Sounds like a significant discovery to me, but article needs some work. --ThaddeusB (talk) 14:19, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The jury sitting in the case of R v Huhne and Pryce fails to reach a verdict on Vicky Pryce regarding driving licence penalty points she accepted on behalf of her former husband, Chris Huhne, requiring a retrial. (BBC)
A United States federal grand jury in Georgia indicts four employees of bankrupt Virginia-based Peanut Corporation of America for the 2009 salmonellaoutbreak that killed nine people and infected hundreds. The 75–count indictment describes contaminated or misbranded food by company owner Stewart Parnell, his brother and company vice president Michael Parnell, and two company managers. The charges are conspiracy, wire fraud, and obstruction of justice. This infection triggered the most extensive food recall ever in United States history. (FoxNews)
Lindy Ruff, the active longest tenured coach in the National Hockey League is fired by the Buffalo Sabres after serving as the team's head coach for fifteen seasons. Ruff leaves the Sabres as the franchise's all time leader in wins and games coached. Ruff's 571 victories with the Sabres, rank second to Al Arbour's 709 with the New York Islanders. (TSN)
Nominator's comments: Following below discussions it seems unusual circumstances warant posting. This was a result of nationwide protests and not a political gimmick. I believe we posted romania.. --Lihaas (talk) 19:41, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment perhaps the last three PM resignations in the last day (Bulgaria, Tunisia and Nepal) can be summed up in a single blurb? I'd vote to support all three of them, if it came to that, but a condensed, "The PMs of three different countries resign within 24/48 hours of each other" would be better I think. 80.220.123.162 (talk) 14:08, 20 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Combining the three resignations in a single blurb is a good idea.
I have suggested this type of combined blurb before, and in principle the idea was accepted in the talk page. The purpose of ITN is "to direct readers to articles that have been substantially updated to reflect recent or current events of wide interest," not to provide abridged news headlines. The prime ministers of '''[[Hamadi Jebali|Tunisia]]''', '''[[Baburam Bhattarai|Nepal]]''' and '''[[Boyko Borisov|Bulgaria]]''' each resign.Kevin McE (talk) 20:38, 20 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support combined blurb - per Kevin McE and others. Good thinking; this is a fine direction to take the triple resignations, blurbwise, and I salute all involved. I have proposed Kevin's blurb on the alt line of the nomination. Downside is, we now have three articles to check for updates and/or improvements needed. If we can pull this off, it will truly be an ITN team effort! Jusdafax02:45, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Oppose sympathetic as I am to such an ancient ant post-soviet state, this is just not anywhere near the level of notability needed to override the well-supported proposal to decommission ITNR. μηδείς (talk) 04:19, 20 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
If by "well supported" you mean a 47% support for decomissioning and a 53% in favor of keeping it, you'd be correct. It'd be a rather odd definition of "well supported", but if you're going to invent your own idiosyncratic definitions for words, and not tell anybody you did so, you'd be correct. For the record, I'm one of the 47%... --Jayron3205:24, 20 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
While I support the proposal to decommission ITN/R, it has not yet succeeded. Until such time as it does, ITN/R remains in force and thus the notability requirement is automatically met. Neljack (talk) 06:30, 20 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support ITNR, but never a fan of mentioning anything other than results in the blurb, especially because half of all elections we post have fraud allegations now anyway. Bzweebl (talk • contribs) 06:05, 20 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
You are right, sir, but these are not just allegations. The man who came second presented a list of violations and have already self-proclaimed himself the winner. There is a high probability of a political crisis in the country that might, unfortunately, end like the last time, when 10 people died. I don't think you see this in many countries. --96.233.54.82 (talk) 06:55, 20 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Posting generic blurb. The article is in good shape. In case there is some major development later, that can be another ITN story. --Tone07:10, 20 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's comments: Instability in a country recentl emerged from civil war just prior to election. note i would wait to read more as some late news is saying it MAY be postponed. --Lihaas (talk) 19:41, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
So if you recommend waiting, why did you nominate this now? Do you want to withdraw the nomination and renominate later when the event actually occurs? SpencerT♦C20:28, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The vast majority o f articles i read say he resigned but noe suggested it was put off so I wasnt sure. I thought others might now more. But do we not (sometimes we have) post changes in govt for sovereign states?Lihaas (talk) 10:59, 20 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
That's irrelevant, and also inaccurate; this policy is in effect now, and support is barely 50% at best, hardly "well-supported". 331dot (talk) 11:14, 20 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support notability as a significant event. There needs to be a decent prose update somewhere, could be in Hamadi Jebali or elsewhere. --LukeSurl t c 23:35, 19 February 2013 (UTC
Comment. The article does not discuss the resignation. I'm leaning oppose as I don't see some unusual circumstance prompting the resignation; this situation happens not infrequently; but I'm open to changing my mind upon updates and any additional information. 331dot (talk) 03:38, 20 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. There's a single line in the article about his resignation. Article is in dire need of a substantial update. There's no discussion at all of the controversy over Chokri Belaid's assassination and how it relates to Jebali's failed attempt at forming a technocratic government and his ensuing resignation. The article doesn't even mention Chokri Belaid. I'm leaning towards a support, but only after an update that discusses the significance of this event.--xanchester(t)04:18, 20 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Nominator's comments: The article still needs a proper update, but the results are known and the main opposition candidate has conceded. --Nsk92 (talk) 00:36, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Are you strongly opposing the nomination or the article? If there is consensus then it will only go up if the article quality is suitable. No need to oppose for that reason -- Ashish-g5501:07, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
They are one in the same, the nomination is to place a link to the article, nominations should not be made on the hope that an article will be updated, ITN is not a race, get the article ready first then nominate, guarantees a speed confirmation, There is a tendency to view a ITN/R as a boilerplate support and often the quality of the article update goes unquestioned. LGA (was LightGreenApple)talk to me02:01, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Nominations are made to gain consensus and while that happens in parallel the article gets updated. Elections are one of the few ITN/R where consensus is actually needed since there are just too many countries/elections all year long. Im not saying dont debate the quality of article, just saying no need to strong oppose based on quality right at start of nomination before we have any consensus to even post -- Ashish-g5502:40, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Well it is on ITN/R, so the only thing that is of relevance here is the update, the prose is, to be blunt, awful, the sections on Democracy Code and National political organizations are barely coherent English, there is nothing on the actual campaign, what were the key issues in the campaign, the Opinion Polling section needs to be expanded on or just removed. LGA (was LightGreenApple)talk to me03:46, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - Since this article will be posted, I have already made a few improvements, and will continue on. LGA saw fit to triple-tag the article, which I find interesting in light of their strong oppose. Jusdafax03:56, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Please try and assume good faith if you read my comments the only reason for my oppose is the quality of the article, it has nothing to do with the subject. If you (or others) can improve it (I don't know nearly enough about Ecuadorian politics to do so) then reason for my oppose goes away and I will support. LGA (was LightGreenApple)talk to me04:03, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I've removed the tags because there was no talkpage discussion and, in any case there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with the article that would merit them. Tags are for serious problems, not just to note that there is room for improvement.
Support prose is a little awkward in the article, but it otherwise is passable for a recent event at ITN. For reference, the article for the recent Kuwaiti general elections was in much worse shape before getting posted to ITN. 80.220.123.162 (talk) 16:45, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I will post this the second that the article has three honest-to-goodness solid paragraphs as required by the ITN criteria. Support per significance is at a consensus, now we need the article to be at minimum standards. --Jayron3218:20, 20 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Artist Ruth Stage, who uses the ancient egg tempera painting technique, wins the 2013 Lynn Painter-Stainers art prize for her work The Isabella Plantation. (BBC)
Sorry but this can't be posed as at the time of nomination the oldest entry is from February 12, and this person passed away on the February 9. As an aside it is a shame as it looks like it would have been a easy support.LGA (was LightGreenApple)talk to me00:03, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Worlds first Female judo master, landmark figure in terms of civil rights and martial arts, highest every ranked female judo practitioner, known as the "Mother of Judo". Died February 9, however this only hit the news in the last 24 hours. Besides the above websites, I've also heard this on radio news and seen it on television news. --Jayron3223:29, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Support - Buss was highly notable and a star in his own right. I am not a fan of the team or the sport, but am well aware of who he was. Jusdafax21:58, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose owner of a franchise? Seems popular in basketball terms but his death is attracting far fewer global articles than Richard Briers, so I'm not sure. At all. Do we have any precedents of "owners" being so significant to be listed at ITN? The Rambling Man (talk) 22:06, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Hi The Rambling Man. I posted a quote below from current NBA commissioner David Stern which I think shows how Buss wasn't just an owner, but had a real impact on the league. --IP98 (talk) 00:42, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The death of Jerry Buss, the owner of one of the world's most popular basketball team is huge, and probably will have significant implications for the NBA. SupportSecretaccount22:17, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose IMO a minimum starting point for even considering any listing on ITN is good global news coverage in this case I am not seeing coverage of this guys death outside of the US domestic media. As The Rambling Man points out, in the case of Richard Briers death there was a whole range of outlets covering not just the domestic English news sources. LGA (was LightGreenApple)talk to me 23:10, 18 February 2013 (UTC) Should have waited, now seeing the global coverage start to come in so moving to Support for RD entry. LGA (was LightGreenApple)talk to me00:41, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support. The Lakers are one of the most notable teams in the NBA, and the NBA is of global importance. The NBA has a huge following in Europe and Asia, not just North America.--xanchester(t)23:55, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Support per ITN/DC #2. Per David Stern"Jerry Buss helped set the league on the course it is on today," NBA Commissioner David Stern said. "Remember, he showed us it was about 'Showtime,' [4] Global story per BBC and Times of India coverage. Per the PDN #3 above we should not object to an " event only relating to a single country". If you read his article, and the referenced LA Times article, you'll see he was a major part of reviving the NBA in the 80s. --IP98 (talk) 00:38, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose unless there is compelling evidence as to how the owner affects the team other than providing a budget. Which of the death criteria is he thought to meet? Kevin McE (talk) 00:42, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I don't think we have yet been provided with evidence that he "was widely regarded as a very important figure in his or her field." We need multiple sources saying he's a very important figure in basketball. If we get that I will be happy to support. And the article doesn't do a very good job of explaining his importance; it says little about how much impact he had as owner. The fact his team was highly successful does not tell us how much impact he had. If we are going to post, this needs to be rectified. Neljack (talk) 01:12, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Done (I think). I added remarks from Kobe Bryant and David Stern to the death section of the article. I fail at using inline refs and would love it if someone could fix my markup. There are also "tweets" from many current owners [5] here. --IP98 (talk) 01:41, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. Will now support. I think the Showtime article gives a good idea of his impact. If anyone is eager, that article would probably provide some good material to further explain Buss's impact and innovations in his own article. Neljack (talk) 02:17, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose: Per Kevin McE. Not notable as a real estate investor, where he originally made his fortune. In addition, the owners generally don't have that great of an impact on a teams performance (relative to a player or coach, who's respective deaths I would consider more highly. I'm just not seeing specifically why his ownership was so impactful on the industry as a whole, as in something that he changed (as a comparison, Art Modell, another sports team owner who we didn't post, was instrumental in bringing NFL and the TV broadcasting industry together). SpencerT♦C07:36, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Reply Hi Spencer, with respect, the current comissioner has stated "The NBA has lost a visionary owner whose influence on our league is incalculable and will be felt for decades to come". If you read the article Showtime (basketball) you'll get an idea of his importance. --IP98 (talk) 11:36, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
While it's cool to have that quote thrown around, it's pretty empty. It doesn't say explicitly what he did. In addition, some of the information in Showtime needs to be in the Buss article, because otherwise that's not there. SpencerT♦C15:31, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment "The current commissioner says" is hardly a resounding neutral source. Like politicians, they can be obsequious in these circumstances. Reliable sources would be more convincing. Leaky Caldron12:00, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose. I'm not really seeing the notability here. Was he really the first to have the idea to have cheerleaders and music at games? It's also certainly his right to direct how his team plays the game. Like Leaky Cauldron, some other sources would help. 331dot (talk) 12:15, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Jerry Buss commissioned the Laker Girls in 1979 after he had purchased the Lakers. He believed a basketball game should be entertaining, and he was a big fan of college basketball.[1][2][3] Cheerleaders were not common in the NBA at the time, but Buss ordered the formation of the squad—a team of top female dancers who were as talented as they were sexy—as part of his vision for Showtime.[1][3][4]
Not every innovation is noteworthy. Incredible to suggest that anyone who has ever been described as innovative in an obituary is therefore " very important figure in his or her field". Kevin McE (talk) 20:25, 20 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It has to be to reach the level where the NY Times puts it in the headline. I would say that someone described as innovative by definition is very important to the field in which they innovated. – Muboshgu (talk) 02:36, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Ready removed; Jerry_Buss#Sports_ownership is still devoid of references. Also, I'd really prefer if the sentence in the article "He inspired the Lakers' Showtime era with his vision that basketball games must be entertaining" was expanded with specific examples (such as were mentioned in this nomination), but I'm willing to post once the referencing issue is resolved. SpencerT♦C07:14, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Wow look at that! Someone who opposed the nomination filibusters it by tagging it for citations needed after consensus to post is gained! I'm re-adding the ready tag so a neutral admin can review it. Hot Stop(Talk)13:46, 21 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Oppose though prolific, there is no evidence in his article that he was widely regarded as a very important figure in his field. --IP98 (talk) 14:19, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support significant career, lead of own top TV show (filmed before the Queen) everything from sitcoms to Shakespearean tragedy, of similar stature to Larry Hagman and Jack Klugman, whom we listed. μηδείς (talk) 14:53, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Not Updated I think this might go up rather quickly if it's updated but the article also has an unhelpful (unspecific) tag for references as well. I won't be able to devote a lot of time to this, so I hope someone else will devote a little, maybe our nominator? μηδείς (talk) 16:09, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I had a stab at adding a couple of refs, you're right the tag is completely unhelpful so I've removed it in the hope that any specific concerns can be individually tagged. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:12, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose If Mindy McCready is an oppose, how can this be a support? He had a long career, but by no means was he recognized as the top of his field, or at least I see no evidence of that. – Muboshgu (talk) 16:21, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
If I understand this comment correctly, you seem to be asking how can this nomination possibly get any support if yours isn't getting any? μηδείς (talk) 17:57, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Some of the views here are wildly overstated. Yes, he was once a popular sitcom star in the UK, but not by any stretch of the imagination a "highly significant figure in British acting". "Few deaths of actors receive top billing on BBC 6 O'clock news".... except on days when most of the BBC journalists are on strike. Ghmyrtle (talk) 18:39, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
That's cynical and you have no evidence that it would have been any different on another day at the BBC. We have many sources for those institutions not on strike, or those which aren't in the UK (did you actually read Black Kite's post above?) that don't rely on your cynicism for Briers' notability. For the record, which views are "wildly overstated", in your opinion? It's worth reiterating that this is just to decide if Briers should appear on the recent death ticker, i.e. it would just say RIchard Briers, it's not a main blurb. Just in case..... The Rambling Man (talk) 18:51, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Limp support. His star billing on BBC 6 O'clock news may be partly explained by the fact that he was very much a BBC product. But hugely well-known and much loved. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:57, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
But Sky, The Guardian, Chicago Tribune, The Independent, Volkskrant, El Nuevo Herald, Kurier, Onet, Irish Independent, Mason City Globe Gazette, etc etc note his passing... Plus those that Black Kite has mentioned above. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:18, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
In Nigeria six foreign workers, of which one Italian, one Greek and two Lebanese, are kidnapped in a construction site, one security guard is killed. (BBC)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Neutral for RD, although the story is certainly in the news, even in the UK, international BBC news homepage has it as its third story, and it was one of around six news headlines on British radio this morning. The Rambling Man (talk) 09:01, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. I regard myself as a bit of a popular music fan/expert - but until this morning I had never heard of her. (I'm in the UK, if that matters.) Ghmyrtle (talk) 09:09, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Oppose While this is covered globaby (news.co.za, bbc.co.uk, abc.net.au et al.) none of the articles (or our own WP article) make mention of why this person was held in high regard in her field, so for that reason I can's support. LGA (was LightGreenApple)talk to me23:20, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I am very well aware that this isnt a Daytona win which would obviously be more notable but first woman ever to achieve this is still quite a feat in Nascar history. -- Ashish-g5500:01, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Maybe if she wins, but as is this isn't really a feat. Although I fail to see why this would be suitable for DYK, where's the new or 5x expanded article, Bong? GRAPPLEX01:28, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It's a shame that 2013 Daytona 500 was created so long in advance, and the actual race doesn't occur for 7 days so the likelihood of a 5x expansion in 5 days is virtually zero. There's a possibility that if there's not much expansion between here and next Sunday, and there's a lot interesting to write about during the race, a dedicated contributor could expand the article 5x and get it DYK worthy. RyanVesey01:58, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I'll support once (if ever) wins her first NASCAR race, as a female winning in a male dominated sport would be of great importance for the feminist movement and in the sports world. But winning the pole position, while being a first, it is too soon to evaluate its legacy. Secretaccount02:03, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment this is actually a pretty big deal and I think it's a good fit for DYK. On a personal note: NASSCAR driver, IndyCar driver, yoga, model, and actress?? Danica Patrick, where have you been all my life?? :) --IP98 (talk) 02:38, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support I've been thinking about this for awhile. There have been women in the Sprint Cup Series since its inception and none of them has managed to win a pole. This is a really big achievement. We often run events that the New York Times has failed to comment on. In this case, the New York Times decided that the event was sufficiently significant to merit an article. It's also been picked up internationally in Australia. When she becomes the first woman to win a race, we'll post again. RyanVesey02:47, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose This is not ITN material, as others have said an interesting sports triva point (which will no doubt feature on an future set of Trivial pursuits questions) but not really that significant and not making news headlines globally, nothing on the bbc.co.uk, sport24.co.za or abc.net.au. LGA (was LightGreenApple)talk to me03:50, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose It's an achievement, but not nearly as big as if she wins the actual race. There usually isn't much correlation between winning the pole and winning the race. Now if she wins the Daytona 500, however, that's completely different and I would strongly support posting that. -- Anc516(Champs!) (Talk ▪ Contribs) 15:09, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment it's brilliant that we're starting to recognise some of these kinds of story, but I'm afraid a pole position won't quite cut the mustard. I imagine as soon as she (or any other female) wins a serious level motor racing event (F1, Indy Car etc), then it will be a completely unanimous decision to post it. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:02, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Article needs updating The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Nominator's comments: I think Kramer's achievement in itself --- in a much more competitive field than his predecessors who won five overall titles --- makes this sufficiently noteworthy. --sephia karta
Support with suitable update. Probably in vain, as it's unlikely to make it, but as a skating fanatic I don't have a choice. Fgf10 (talk) 18:03, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Request clarification This seems to be some kind of heptathlon (well, quadrathlon) event, with scoring being by points accumulated over 4 distances. The times in at least some events seem far short of what would have been competitive in the single event world championships last year (are some rinks faster than others?) I'd need assurance that this combination of disciplines really is a season's goal for many of the major competitors rather than an occasional "novelty" event. Should we emphasise the single distance championships in Sochi instead if we want the real prestige event? Kevin McE (talk) 18:16, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, this is allround skating, the oldest form of skating championship, and most certainly not a novelty event. The times are slower because the championship was ridden in Hamar, which is a sea-level track. Altitude tracks like Calgary or Salt Lake City are much faster. The men's winner this year, Sven Kramer, holds the world records on both the 5k and 10k, but those were done at altitude. As far as prestige is concerned, it may be a national difference, in Europe it is most certainly at least as prestigious as the distance championships (in the Netherlands even more so), but I think in North America the singles are rated higher. Fgf10 (talk) 18:30, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose On the same day of the conclusion of the World Championships in alpine skiing and biathlon, this event is shadowed as simply non-significant in the world of winter sports. In addition, this is only a competition consisting two events which are attributed attention and notability far from the main World Championships in the sport that each year are held at the end of March. Hence, Kramer's achievement, albeit outstanding, is comparable to achievements in local or exhibition competitions in other sports.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 19:07, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I don't understand your comment only a competition consisting two events which are attributed attention and notability far from the main World Championships in the sport that each year are held at the end of March. The World Allround Championship is the most prestigeous of the season. Kramer's is literally a once-in-a-century achievement, no accomplishment in speed skating could be more notable than this one. If ever speed skating news should be included in ITN, it is now.sephia karta | dimmi19:29, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sorry, but that's simple not true. It is one of the main championships. It's just two different disciplines. And 'comparable to local of exhibition competitions'? Where do you get that from? Not only is it insulting to the athletes, it doesn't even make sense. Furthermore, presumably skating isn't popular in Macedonia, but is is also simply not true that it is "non-significant in the world of winter sports". Yes, it is popular in a limited number of countries, but in comparable number to for instance rugby. It is more widespread than some other winter sports such as curling or biathlon. Fgf10 (talk) 21:51, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
No, speed skating is not popular in Macedonia, but I'm one of those who follows the sport and perfectly knows what is the difference between each of the three World Championships that took place every season. You're right that this one is the most prestigious and the oldest World Championship in the sport, but it doesn't simply mean it's the most popular one with most followers or the one that receives most attention in the media. It's like to say that the FA Cup in football as the oldest and most prestigious competition in the sport is the most popular one that anybody is aware of much more than any other competition.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 22:07, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I meant that the World Allround Championship is not the main event in the calendar season with two other World Championships and the Single Distance Championships being the most popular one that each year receives much more traction than this one and consists of most of the Olympic disciples. The result is great for me from a viewpoint of a Kramer's fan, but it's really tough to consider it for inclusion on the main page.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 22:00, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sorry, but that is still wrong, is is one of the main events in the skating calender, which also includes the sprint championship, and the single distance championships. And for the record, if it wasn't for the 6 championship record, I would not have supported this for the main page, as it is a niche sport for most of the world. Fgf10 (talk) 22:03, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Please don't get it wrongly. I have nothing against the Dutch people and their sentiment to this sport, but the things we're discussing now here are known only by those who follow the sport regularly. Let's wait to see how the others will comment and vote for it.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 22:16, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support A world championship in a major winter sport featuring an outstanding record-breaking achievement by Kramer. Alpine skiing and biathlon would also have strong case if nominated, but they're not a reason to oppose this. Neljack (talk) 20:51, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I'm pretty neutral on this one, but if posting, I'd cut out "Kramer becoming the first man to do so six times since the tournament's inception in 1893". It makes the blurb too long. LukeSurltc22:07, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Mainly for lack of update to prose in the article; other than the "Rules" section it is a list of stats, the article needs work before a nomination can be considered. As a general point, I cant seem to find any real clear explanation as to how the event works, the best I could find was World All-Round Speed Skating Championships for Men but that is two links away from the article and only if you click from the nav template at the bottom. Basically the article needs a lot of work. LGA (was LightGreenApple)talk to me01:02, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Looks like this a massive sporting event that's not getting the news. Only 855 Google News hits? Even UAAP volleyball (guess what that is) had more [10] Google News hits. –HTD03:27, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support once updated fully. World-level competition in its respective sport, plus women's sport is under-represented at ITN so it's a nice addition to have. GRAPPLEX17:48, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support as long as the article has a little bit more prose added. Despite not being in ITN/R, we should be more progressive here, and encourage these kind of nominations, as Grapple X says above. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:58, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support exactly the sort of sporting ITN we need. Given that it's every four years, it should probably be ITN/R. Front page sports news in a lot of countries, which is a major advance for the women's game. Black Kite (talk) 18:43, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose recurring event, not on ITN/R, with no evidence that this occurrence of the event is especially noteworthy. Recommend nom to ITN/R first. --IP98 (talk) 19:29, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Since when did a recurring event have to be on ITN/R to be allowed to feature on ITN? Surely it's just the other way around, that ITN/R are automatically allowed given a decent update, this shouldn't preclude other regular events that the failing ITN/R system has yet to agree to. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:32, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment ITNR cannot be used as argument against inclusion on ITN. ITNR doesn't work like that. Any such opposes should be disregarded. -- Ashish-g5519:35, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Reply what's the point of ITN/R then if any routine occurrence of a regular event can go up based upon the whims of the contributors at that time. ITN/R brings consistency that is lost when <<insert favourite sporting event here>> goes up this year, not next year, up again the year after that. --IP98 (talk) 19:39, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I stated my position. It's very clear. Participants are free to agree or disagree. I will not derail another discussion with you. --IP98 (talk) 20:32, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It isn't clear at all, other than it clearly demonstrates that you don't hold the same understanding of ITN/R as the rest of the community. Any case, glad to hear you won't derail future discussions. In the meantime, the cricket article has come on leaps and bounds, all good! The Rambling Man (talk) 21:20, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I've given the article a basic prose update which appears acceptable. The scorecards need to be added, but that's not a reason to oppose, I think. Black Kite (talk) 20:11, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I helped Black Kite, we've now got a decent stab at a finals article which should be acceptable, certainly much more so than many of the stubs that seem to get accepted via an ITN/R vote! The Rambling Man (talk) 20:59, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support It has always been made clear that the absence of an event on ITN/R is not a valid reason to oppose it here. This has received extensive media coverage (I was pleasantly surprised, since women's cricket often doesn't get its due), and we need to feature more women's sport events. Neljack (talk) 20:57, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support - I have added a talk page to the article, since the lack of it seemed a bit odd. I rated the article "start" since it is beyond a mere "stub" now, in my view. Jusdafax22:27, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Post-posting futile oppose. Is women's cricket really that popular? Even Gaelic sports have more pageviews. IMO the only women's sports that are mainstream enough are women's tennis and women's golf... and probably women's football. There are no stats on the article on how many people were at the stadium, but it seems that it's not that big enough enough to host the last time the men's Cricket World Cup came into town, which probably means it's not that popular. –HTD12:06, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose the ITN/R appears to be the Golden Bear award, not the festival itself. As noted above, the subject of the blurb should be the Golden Bear winner, and it's currently a poor stub which is mostly plot and a cast list. Should also be noted the plot looks like a copyvio, being replicated elsewhere.... The Rambling Man (talk) 16:49, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
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ITN/R is BIFF with golden bear in parenthesis. [12]. Last year the bold link was Caesar Must Die [13]. If there is a copyvio please add the appropriate tag to the article so that it can be addressed. --IP98 (talk) 17:23, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps I missed the instruction which told us all which of the two articles should be the subject matter for the blurb. Have removed the blatant copyvio. Still oppose based on the fact the festival isn't actually in the news, the only thing that really made the news was the Golden Bear winner. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:47, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It doesn't really matter what was blurbed last year, where is the instruction as you have interpreted it? The Golden Bear winner is the important part of the blurb, and that article is not good enough. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:33, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Are you not following this? Perhaps you're tired. You made up some rule about which item should be in bold and then when I asked where it came from you said "What?". Seriously, take some time out and do something else if you can't follow. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:47, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"You made up some rule about which item should be in bold" I'm sorry? I did no such thing. Kindly provide diff, perhaps we're misunderstand each other. --IP98 (talk) 19:56, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
You provided this diff and stated the movie was bold linked. Doesn't look that way to me. The bold linked article should be the movie, not the film festival. Anyone who has supported the main page inclusion of the stub needs to re-assess. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:08, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, so I misread the diff. My mistake. How does that translate into "You made up some rule about which item should be in bold"? --IP98 (talk) 20:14, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Just read what you wrote. Turns out you were mistaken, as are those who have voted to support a very weak stub. Perhaps ITN/R isn't clear enough here. End. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:19, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
No, not end. You've insisted that I "made up some rule about which item should be in bold" and demanded a citation for that rule. Twice. I made no such claim. Simply insisting that I re-read what I wrote isn't a response. I've re-read it. No where did I say "this is the rule on what to bold". Then you made the condescending statement "maybe your tired" and "do something else if you can't follow". Where did I write there is a rule? Where? Provide a diff please. --IP98 (talk) 20:22, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
You said "ITN/R is BIFF with golden bear in parenthesis. " You then contradicted yourself. At length. So let's just let it go now, ok, since you're getting too involved. The bottom line is that the movie should be the bold link (despite the fact it wasn't last year) and right now, the movie article is not good enough, despite anyone claiming "support per ITN/R". End II. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:25, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
ITN/R does have BIFF with golden bear in parenthesis. That's still not me stating any rule. It's a statement of fact. So where did I "made up some rule about which item should be in bold"? Where? You've still not provided a diff where I explicitly stated that there is a rule. Please provide the diff. Now please. --IP98 (talk) 20:31, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Strong oppose for nowWP:ITN/R clearly points out that it is the Golden Bear that is the notable portion of the event. The bolded article in the blurb should be Child's Pose. That article is a stub that is in no way fit for the main page. If that article is improved (and while it's not necessarily applicable in this venue, I'm talking about a WP:HEY style improvement) then I support posting. The article needs a lot of improvement in addition to the introduction of enough information on the Golden Bear/Film festival aspect. RyanVesey19:50, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support. One of the most important international film festivals. Here it's rated the 7th most important ([14]), and here [15] it's second in the list, and according to our own article here it is the "largest publicly attended film festival worldwide". In 2011 Cannes was ITN with the film festival in bold, not the article film. The Berlinale's been ITN for the last 2 years, why not this year? Aaadddaaammm (talk) 09:28, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment If we do happen to bold the festival, I still oppose posting in the article's current state. The article hardly has any prose, surely there's more available than what exists right now. RyanVesey15:01, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I'm responding to Alex's question. This is a collaborative effort. You're welcome to submit a notice WP:AN/I if you believe I'm a sockpuppet. --IP98 (talk) 22:07, 16 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support This blast appears to be pretty notable on the grounds of its media coverage and the high death toll. We really don't need to count comments and votes that adduce own prejudices on the precedence that the story with Chris Dorner wasn't posted and that the scales for inclusion have been thereby raised which is not true.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 20:06, 16 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support iff someone creates an article on the event. It's not like biographies where an event is a new development in their life. If this event is significant enough for ITN, it's significant enough for an article. RyanVesey21:04, 16 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
OpposeA deadlier attack in the exact same region barely a month ago. Clearly Pakistan is facing an internal insurgency, and I see no reason to post every incremental update. Major attacks against government forces, major government offensives, political milestones, sure, but a car bomb in a soft target like a market place seems to be pretty routine for that region. --IP98 (talk) 21:55, 16 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Additionally the bombings in January were several coordinated events, vs this single attack, puts it in the "tragic but not notable in the context of terrorism in Pakistan" pile. --IP98 (talk) 22:05, 16 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Huge background section is mostly boiler plate: another summary of a long running conflict. Bombing section is ok, could probably use another inline ref. --IP98 (talk) 02:35, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Opppose At best this should be a sticky for an ongoing cynical political conflict waged in supposedly religious terms. None of the attackers are people or their victims notable per se. μηδείς (talk) 03:39, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: The blast section needs some attention. I'm not sure what's going on with a hanging sentence that didn't end: Photos from the scene showed groups of desperate people rushing injured into ambulances, as [11][12] with nothing after it. Also, another inline reference for the section would be nice, if applicable. SpencerT♦C05:38, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Done I have added a new inline ref to the 'Bombing' section as requested, and reordered the article sections for reading flow, by placing the 'Background' section lower down. I have also added some relevant material to the 'Reactions' section and added various Wiki-links. The article meets the requirements for ITN, and as I see consensus to post, I am marking it as ready. I have also made minor modifications to the blurb as the death toll is now over 80 and may grow still larger. Jusdafax21:56, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
After intense fighting 40,000 people become displaced in the city of Shadadah, Hasakah, adding to the 3 million people already internally displaced in Syria. (Al Jazeera)
The number of fatalities from Thursday's avalanche in the Scottish Highlands rises to three following the death of a man being treated in hospital. (BBC)
In reaction to North Korea's latest nuclear test the European Union will tighten sanctions against the country in the form of blocking the trade of gold and diamonds, as well as cracking down on financial ties between them. (NDTV)
Securities regulators file a lawsuit against traders in options on the stock of H.J. Heinz, alleging they had inside information of the planned acquisition of that company before the announcement thereof by Berkshire Hathaway and 3G Capital. (Reuters)
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Article:2012 DA14 (talk·history·tag) Blurb: Near-earth asteroid 2012 DA14 will pass/passed Earth about 27,700 kilometres from surface. (Post) Alternative blurb: On the same day near-earth asteroid 2012 DA14 passes the earth below geosynchronous orbit, a meteor explodes over Chelyabonsk News source(s):NY Times Credits:
Weak oppose. Essentially an article about a non-event(an asteroid not hitting the Earth). Asteroids passing by the Earth actually happens far more frequently than is reported. We also have the event in Russia which actually had a significant impact. 331dot (talk) 13:26, 15 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support This is the closest-ever predicted passage of a asteroid. It can be combined with the Chelyabinsk meteorite: "On the same day near-earth asteroid 2012 DA14 passes the earth below geosynchronous orbit, a meteor explodes over Chelyabinsk." μηδείς (talk) 14:37, 15 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The only problem is that the meteoriod and DA14 are pretty much said to be unconnected - though investigation is still continuing. Putting them together would artificially imply that they are connected events to readers not in the know. --MASEM (t) 16:44, 15 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It wasn't my intention to imply the two were connected and is irrelevant to the nomination itself. But there seems to be a total misunderstanding of the significance of the asteroid DA14 below. It is notable because it is the first such asteroid of such a size to be discovered ahead of time and predicted to make such a close pass. It's the prediction, size, and proximity that matter, not the fact that it didn't hit the Earth. μηδείς (talk) 20:54, 15 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per Leaky Cauldron. The asteroid does not inherit ITNability from the unrelated meteoroid. This story is merely interesting; the meteoroid is highly significant. AlexTiefling (talk) 14:44, 15 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose a non-story and absolutely no need to conflate it with meteoroid story as we have no evidence that they're in any way related, blurbing like that would certainly imply some kind of unproven link. (Of course, if DA14 hits earth because the clever guys got their maths wrong (see Melancholia) then I'd support it being posted, I suppose....) The Rambling Man (talk) 17:09, 15 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose - I had considered nominating this even before the Russian meteor event happened. This is an interesting curiosity, but it's not really much of an event. --Bongwarrior (talk) 20:48, 15 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
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[Posted] Russian meteorite explosion/shower
Article:2013 Russian meteor event (talk·history·tag) Blurb: A meteoroid explodes approximately 10,000 m over Chelyabinsk in central Russia, shattering windows and showering the area with debris. (Post) Alternative blurb: A meteoroidexplodes approximately 10,000 m over Chelyabinsk in central Russia, injuring more than 400 people. News source(s):BBC, The age Credits:
Support - It's a bit too early to make an informed decision, but this looks something I can support. I'm just wondering if it was definitely a meteorite, or if it was possibly a satellite. As long as this isn't something mundane like a gas leak - and that doesn't appear to be the case - I agree that this is pretty interesting and unusual. --Bongwarrior (talk) 07:27, 15 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support. I added an altblurb, mentioning the over 400 injured, which seems much more notable than showing the area and breaking windows of the original blurb. Also I believe the correct term is "meteoroid", not "meteorite" as the NYT and the original blurb used (before I corrected it). The Tunguska event article also uses the term "meteoroid". Thue (talk) 10:01, 15 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Heavens! Not only consensus, but absolute unanimity! When was the last time that happened on this page? (And let us be grateful this one was not as powerful as the Tunguska event.) - Tenebris 15:18, 15 February 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.254.156.247 (talk)
I was going to add the image, but in my opinion it doesn't look like much of anything when it's shrunk. It would be nice if we had a free image of the fireball to use. --Bongwarrior (talk) 05:08, 16 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Could we mention the fact, that two meteoroids came inside the human area of activity on the same day? They are 'unrelated' as per their orbital parameters, but they are definitely related as per the time and place in the solar system in which they appeared. To say that they are completely unrelated is an over-interpretation. One asteroid entered the atmosphere and created damage to the planet, but the other one grazed the human sphere of activity, came inside the geosynchronous orbit, this was the closest observed asteroid flyby ever. This is a rare coincidence as can be. 89.76.232.102 (talk) 09:54, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The eurozone slides into deeper recession, making 2012 the first year with no growth in any quarter since tracking began in 1995. Economic experts, who had not expected this, say that 2013's "early indicators are all pointing upwards". (Reuters via The Irish Times)
French sources find traces of phenylbutazone, a suspected harmful drug, in several horse carcasses slaughtered in Somerset, England, and fear they could be part of lasagne or other food sold in France. (CNN)
The Large Hadron Collider (LHC) will switch off for two years, giving time for engineers and scientists to install upgrades to the machine. (BBC)
Steam for Linux is released, beginning the expansion of Valve's game service onto the free and open-source platform.[1] This leads to 2000 games being ported to the platform in a span of a little over 3 years.[2]
Support because it affects many countries, has throwbacks to BSE, demonstrates the stupidly complex (and potentially hazardous) delivery chain of meat within Europe. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:06, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Good point. (Jews too, of course.) I'd echo what other users are saying: this appears to be a very wide-ranging scandal. It's affected sales in the UK and the Republic of Ireland, and suppliers from France and Luxembourg to Romania. The pig aspect is overlooked but important. And it looks like the Irish government knew for six weeks and didn't make their knowledge public. There's also persistent questions about the effect of a horse tranquiliser called 'bute', which may have found their way into the human food chain (as opposed to another horse tranquiliser, 'K', which enters humans more directly). The whole thing's a massive fustercluck; it looks like a lot of trusted firms have been flogging dead horses. AlexTiefling (talk) 22:23, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Jews go to Kosher providers who cut the animals necks and salt the meat personally. The EU horse-free stamp has never meant anything. But thanks for the concern! μηδείς (talk) 22:31, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Um, you're the one who mentioned an EU stamp, and no-one mentions sects until you did just now. I just asked you not to pretend to speak for all European Jews, as to whether they all shop at separate Kosher shops. (Hint: I shop in the Kosher section of my local Sainsbury's.) What the hell sort of reference do I need to ask you not to make sweeping statements on subjects of which you are manifestly ignorant? AlexTiefling (talk) 23:38, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Medeis, this is absurd. All I said was "Jews too, of course", in reference to Muslims not wanting their beef adulterated with pork. You've created this massive distracting tangent by challenging my aside. I am not sure what part of what I've said is rebutted or tackled by your excessively-specific Google search. I don't know where you're going with this. I am quite tired of your pointlessly derailing tangents and high-handed know-it-all attitude. AlexTiefling (talk) 00:54, 15 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I personally don't know from Muslims. But I understand they have Halal butchers, just like Jews have Kosher butchers. Nor do I know if such orthodox butcheries are illegal in the EU and if only EU crats can give EU stamps. But in the US anyone who cares can go to a real Kosher or Halal butcher, who can be sued for fraud if he lies about his business. How stating this amounts to offensive all-knowingry on my part is beyond me. You still haven't given a single source about Jewish concern for this in Europe beyond your imagination.μηδείς (talk) 03:36, 15 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Here ya go Medeis, CNN stating "January's discovery of pig DNA in beef products is of particular concern to Jews and Muslims, whose dietary laws forbid the consumption of pork products. Jewish dietary laws also ban the eating of horse meat". We learn something everyday, eh? The Rambling Man (talk) 10:46, 15 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
This is not just one burger. It's not just burgers from one supplier. It's not even just burgers from suppliers from just one state. It's lots of food products. From lots of suppliers. In lots of shops. Across lots of states.
It's looking like an EU-wide conspiracy. But, in a more profound sense, it is important because it exposes how little we know where our food comes from - and even what it is - not only food consumers, but even food suppliers. God knows how long we've been eating horsemeat in all kinds of products from cheap burgers to frozen lasagne ... and all across Europe. --RA (talk) 21:21, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
And last of all, the package wasn't marked "may contain horse meat" (or puppy meat) which means both some level of fraud and a failure of the food safety regime. --IP98 (talk) 21:32, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support I'm actually quite surprised this hasn't been here sooner. I had thought myself of putting together a nomination for this, but I was having trouble coming up with a big "wowser" moment. This has been in the news for weeks, with many repeated, ongoing stories, but it's lacked that one big attention-grabbing "event" that many people seem to think ITN events need, news items that go one for a long time but with no singular "event". Given the widespread opposition to the several times the Senkaku Islands dispute was shot down for lacking the big, attention grabbing issue (despite the fact that the dispute has maintained a relatively constant presence for several weeks) is why I didn't think this one had the chance with the regular crew here. However, on the merits of the verifiable criteria (as opposed to personal opinion) with a topic being in the news, and having a good Wikipedia article to point to, I can wholeheartedly support this. This is an ongoing thing, it's continuously in many news sources, and it's got a decent article. I can't think of why this shouldn't be on the ITN section. --Jayron3221:18, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It's encyclopedic if that's what it is being referred to as(which I don't know a wide enough range of sources to know if that's so or not). We shouldn't use our own language, either way.331dot (talk) 21:41, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support - this started off as a UK-only story, now it's spread across Europe. The issue isn't just horsemeat, as pigmeat has also been found in meals that are supposed to be halal. The real issue isn't that horsemeat has been made available for human consumption - there's nothing wrong or illegal with that and it's delicious and cheap - it's that its being passed off as beef. Mjroots (talk) 21:40, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose personal shock that one may have eaten horse sounds more emotional than anything else. Unless someone was poisoned or died or a huge conglomerate is bankrupted or someone like Branson or Murdoch or Trump is convicted this is about as enchanting as the floating toilet story. μηδείς (talk) 21:41, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I think the point is that this entirely undermines the process by which meat is tracked from "farm to fork" throughout the whole the EU. Sure, most of us can get over eating a bit of horse, but some can't, and some instances of contamination involved pork being included in meat products that Muslims had eaten in good faith. The contamination potentially affects half a billion citizens in the EU. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:51, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict)You're not seeing the issue here. Let me ask you two questions: (1) What did you eat for dinner this evening? (2) Did you? The scale of this scandal means those two questions need to be asked by half a billion people (population of the EU). --RA (talk) 21:54, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
That's called activism. WP is not an investigative or regulatory agency, our wishes notwithstanding. The story we would be reporting is, "people nauseated by imagination without specific personal evidence." μηδείς (talk) 22:28, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
This article is not "activism", it is a huge scandal [17] that is still on the news a month after it broke out and affects most of the EU. We tend to post scandals that affects so many people, that unless it is being seen as gossip/tabloid or too centric. Secretaccount22:41, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support this is obviously a big deal. The EU has outlawed BST and are pushing for the labeling of GMOs. I agree with Jayron though that it's hard to draw a line and come up with a good blurb to post. Ideally some EU member state will release a detailed and scandalous report which can be put into the blurb. --IP98 (talk) 21:59, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Obvious Support while it been news for a couple of weeks already, this is a huge scandal that is rapidly changing, and considering the area we are talking about, not no third world country. Secretaccount22:20, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support - Continent-spanning food adulteration scandal. News every day for weeks in several countries. Can be tied to today's arrest of three people in the UK if we need a hook to hang the posting on. AlexTiefling (talk) 22:56, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support - if we wait much longer, we'll be on to donkeys. Oh, hang on, we are. And apparently all driven by the needs of the Romanian economy - who says the tail isn't wagging the dog? (or maybe that's next.) Martinevans123 (talk) 23:05, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support This has become much more widespread than it initially appeared. To those who are saying that it's just about parochial prejudices against eating horse meat (and I personally don't have any objection to horse meat), I would reply that this is about fraud - passing one thing off as another. Neljack (talk) 23:07, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I've marked this ready since the article is good, and support, while not unanimous, is fairly strong. I'll leave to another admin, who hasn't voted, to review and make the final decision. --Jayron3223:07, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support (This is User:Ryan Vesey) So I put myself on a script enforced wikibreak to get some reading done, but I can't not support this. I'd suggest adding that pig meat was found in the meat as well. While the horsemeat has the yuck factor, the pig meat is of religious significance to a large number of people. RyanVesey23:42, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Reluctantly. I wanted to oppose just so I could vote Neigh!!!. But it's a decent-sized story. If your meat pie gives you the trots, now you know why, at least. Formerip (talk) 23:51, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Blurb question: According to the article, the contamination was discovered 15 January. Was it officially announced today? The blurb makes it seem like the contamination was discovered within the past few days. I can't think of any alternate suggestions, or do people think it's fine as-is? SpencerT♦C23:51, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
p.s., post-posting, unfortunate there are no strong images in the linked article. But then we all know what a horse looks like, I guess, some even what it tastes like. Martinevans123 (talk)
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Neutral I agree with the nom in that the deal is comparable to the airline merger, so I wouldn't oppose its posting. However, I'm not giving it full support because unlike the airline merger where there is a large restructuring and re-branding process that will occur (USAir will fold into American Airlines), it looks as though it's just a change of ownership for Heinz (correct me if I'm wrong). -- Anc516 (Talk ▪ Contribs) 18:39, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, perhaps, it's the size of the deal that's newsworthy. It's made news in the UK (the biggest food industry deal in history), unlike the airline merger, that's why I thought it was worth a punt. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:44, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support but leave off the part about Warren Buffet. Yes, he's the most famous and majority shareholder, but it isn't his company any more than it is any of the other shareholders of this publicly traded company. The blurb currently implies that is sole owner of the company, and he isn't. --Jayron3220:18, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I've temporarily struck my support pending the proper update to the article. We'd need 5 sentences in the article body itself, we as of now have a single sentence in the lede section only. Something in the "21st century" section perhaps. This is important enough, IMHO, but the article needs to be of minimum standards. --Jayron3220:29, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Question: Is this finalized/absolutely certain to happen? (Or anything after this point basically procedural to approve it officially?) SpencerT♦C03:27, 15 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, this is a condiments company, change in the form of ownership will not impact consumers in any significant way. At least the AA/US A merger has real world repercussions. Abductive (reasoning) 22:00, 15 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
A murder is hardly routine gossip. Pistorius is not a celebrity, i.e., "a person who has a prominent profile and commands a great degree of public fascination and influence in day-to-day media" - he's an Olympic and Paralympic athlete who is not in the news for much else. None of the sources are tabloids either. --86.40.193.134 (talk) 12:58, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
He's a celebrity (well recognized individual) who is in the news for doing something that is entirely unrelated to his cause of fame. I don't think it differs in any way from any of the other individual tragic violent deaths that happen on Earth every day, every hour. It's only in the news because of the celebrity factor. Ergo, it's tabloid news / celebrity gossip / whatever you want to call it. --hydrox (talk) 13:02, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Weak support. Clearly of international interest, he is the world's most high profile Paralympic athlete. However at this stage he has only been charged with murder [18]. Innocent until proven guilty, even on wikipedia. Suggest blurb Athlete Oscar Pistorious is charged with murder, or something equally neutral. yorkshiresky (talk) 12:39, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per Yorkshiresky mostly. It really doesn't feel right cause of the innocent until proven guilty thing. I would rather post a verdict (whether that be acquittal or conviction) than the fact he has been charged. Ks0stm(T•C•G•E)12:42, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. He's a suspect, not a convict. Let's not cast blame prematurely (if he did do it then there'll be a trial to report on further down the line). GRAPPLEX12:59, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I agree with Grapple X. If a trial comes up guilty, then it probably worth posting as the significance of the subject too great to ignore. Secretaccount15:31, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support That he was arrested is a fact, we don't have to worry about BLP in reporting that, it's a rare event, at least outside the US, regarding a highly notable person with a good article. The time to post this for reader interest is now, not when it gets to the appeal after the third mistrial. μηδείς (talk) 16:49, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
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Comment One dead is really rather run of the mill, unfortunately, and not to be crass about it. I am leary of setting a precedent: Become a runner, kill one person, get yourself on the front page of wikipedia. --IP98 (talk) 18:20, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Are you really concerned that people will dedicate themselves for many years to a field of expertise to the extent that they are world renowned so that they can then get their names on the Main Page of Wikipedia by committing a murder? Kevin McE (talk) 19:37, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, Pistorius was front page news before his girlfriend was murdered, unlike the case you are irrelevantly quoting, where, to quote the same thread, the killer was a nobody. μηδείς (talk) 19:21, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Hi TRM, I tried to view the history of Template:In_the_news but it doesn't go back to 1995 so could you please tell me what relevance O.J. Simpson has to this nomination? I look forward to your reply. Salut!--IP98 (talk) 21:08, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
You invoked the spirit of OJ Simpson, I thought maybe we had posted that story, but the template doesn't go back to 1995, so I've asked you to explain why you mentioned him. I don't feel embarrassed at all. Please, let us know what OJ has to do with this nom. --IP98 (talk) 21:27, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Your overtly hostile insult aside, I'm still waiting for a simple explanation of what OJ Simpson, almost 20 years ago, has to do with this nom. --IP98 (talk) 21:40, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Your overtly obtuse responses aside, it's an analogy, a similar case, something that is like something that has happened before, something that people can relate to. You remember OJ? He "killed" his wife and her lover, allegedly, right? He was an all-American hero right? It's like a "precedent". Pre-ce-dent. (not President). This story is "like" that. Ok, getting there yet? The Rambling Man (talk) 21:45, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I think so ... you're suggesting that if Wikipedia had existed 20 years ago, (or that if the murder occurred today) then the story would be posted to the Main Page of Wikipedia because the perpetrator is American? --IP98 (talk) 21:49, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I'm suggesting that a person who had starred as an athlete and been featured regularly on the television (and movies for OJ) then yes, he'd be prominent. And when he was accused/convicted (in a civil court) of murder, if was news. It didn't matter if he was American, it was just news. Just like this, it's news. If you're adopting a position that is so obtuse to not see an analogy here, I'm done with you on this. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:55, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support there is no doubt whatsoever that this is in the news. Certainly the BBC has talked of little else all day, even putting the horsemeat saga into the shade. Covered across the whole world if a simple Google News search is to be believed. He goes to court to be formally charged tomorrow. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:17, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment the US has seen a football player convicted of murder 18 months ago, murder by US Atheletes is far less common than the sad murders by South African athletes, press coverage or not. Posting this would be really a revisit to the original crime. This is "interesting" and "shocking" but just one of those things, trying to "catch" (or shoot) a perp, and something most of the world perceives as being commonplace in the US South Africa these days. And from a technical perspective, there's no good reason this "perp" should have his own article. --IP98 (talk) 18:26, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Pardon? I'm not sure, perhaps you shouldn't be editing right now. "there's no good reason this "perp" should have his own article"? You must be joking? He's an international athlete, an Olympic and Paralympic athlete, not an ex-cop from LAPD. Wow, the more you type, the less you give. Impressive. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:41, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Blurbs I have added two possible blurbs, not they say arrested as a suspect, and mention shooting death, not murder, all of which are neutral and incontrovertible facts, not a presumption of guilt. μηδείς (talk) 17:43, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment when Lance Armstrong was posted, it was because the cheating scandal had ripple effects throughout the cycling world. This case, while tragic, is the all too routine case of a domestic dispute turning deadly. --IP98 (talk) 21:26, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
1) That is pure speculation and 2) it's totally irrelevant. Two wrongs simply do not make a right. This is totally a non-event. Absolutely zero notability beyond the minor celebrity status of the suspect. --IP98 (talk) 18:29, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Um, are you, IP98, disputing that this is in the news? Perhaps where you live it isn't in the news? It is, elsewhere, across the whole globe, an historic and important para-athlete known across the world (even in the US, thanks to Nike) has been accused of murder. We could wait until tomorrow to see his plea, but it's not a "non-event" in terms of being in the news. I think perhaps some people here have lost sight of what "in the news" means. I agree with the comments above, if this had been OJ or Carl Lewis, it'd be accepted by certain quarters without debate.... The Rambling Man (talk) 18:37, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"Um, are you, IP98, disputing that this is in the news" The irony of you making that statement, after deficating all over the California sniper story below, is just ... wonderful. I may get it printed on a "demotivational" poster and put it up in my cubicle. --IP98 (talk) 19:37, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Freaky, you want something I've said "in your cubicle"? Sounds perverse. Also, not sure what "deficating" means, perhaps it's "talking sense to avoid the usual commonplace guncrime bullshit"? Could you clarify what your comment does to assist this discussion? The Rambling Man (talk) 20:05, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, no, by defecate I meant piling oppose onto a story with major regional impact and coverage on the grounds that it's not a high enough death toll, while reciting the childish and mildly racist refrain that gun murder is a common occurrence in the United States and is therefore not newsworthy, then just two days later propping up a story whereby a minor media frenzy was created when an athlete was accused of a single murder. I think Tariq said it even better below. --IP98 (talk) 21:03, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Utter bullshit. How dare accuse me of "mild racism", I'm stating facts. US fanboys went nuts at an ex-cop being accused of killing three people, one of whom was a cop. We see spree killings in the US all the time. Three major incidents in the last half-year? Correct me if I'm wrong, of course. This story has an entirely different context. You'd be insane to think otherwise. This story involves an Olympic/Paralympic athlete who is legendary for transcending his disability. The US cop story featured a sacked and disgruntled LAPD officer who had a grudge. Entirely different context. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:12, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Please, just stop. This "if it happened somewhere else" BS has got to stop. You know darn well that if this had occurred in the U.S., we would have had to contend with snide remarks about gun violence in the U.S. and statements like "if it happened in South Africa, this wouldn't be posted". Such double standards are apparent when we compare this nomination to the LA shootings below. Here support is coming (rightfully so) because it's in the news, while below opposition, including from The Rambling Man, comes because the event reported in Southern California is supposedly an everyday occurrence in the U.S., where murder and violence run rampant. No one has pointed out that the murder rate in South Africa is among the highest in the world, nearly seven times that in the United States. No one has suggested that this shouldn't be posted because of that, and yet, if this were a U.S. story, we'd have to wade through speeches about the problems of the United States. So, cut it out, because you're wrong. -- tariqabjotu19:25, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with the sentiment to stop this bullshit "revenge voting", but I entirely disagree that this can be compared to the most recent of US mass shootings. South Africa does indeed have a high murder rate, but that is entirely irrelevant when you're discussing the fact that an Olympic athlete kills his own girlfriend in a gated community, not a disgruntled individual going off on one. Really Tariq, I thought better of your arguments in the past, but this one is beyond weak. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:02, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Tariqabjotu, you can't say that someone "is wrong". We are both aware of the double standard, the facts are clear had this been about an American athlete of similar notability this would have been posted. What you are refering to is the US school shooting's debate and that is not the same as in this case were we have a highly notable athlete who shoots his girlfriend. If anything, you are wrong here.--BabbaQ (talk) 20:04, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
No, actually, I don't think the facts are clear at all. The comparison to the OJ Simpson arrest was made above, but there's little evidence to believe that would have been a shoo-in if the story about the LA police officer isn't sufficiently notable. What leads anyone to believe a slow car chase through Los Angeles would be news, if a standoff in a cabin is just hype? What leads anyone to believe an athlete arrested for murder in the U.S. is notable, if a U.S. police officer virtually admitting to killing multiple people is not? And what makes you believe the simple fulfillment of an arrest warrant in Southern California would get posted easily, if a million-dollar, multi-day manhunt across two countries is just sensationalism? Nothing, really, except when it bolsters a reason for supporting a nomination from the developing world. This has nothing to do with the Newtown school shooting; we need to look no further to find the double standard I'm speaking of (rather than the one you are speaking of) than the events of this past week. -- tariqabjotu20:29, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I think perhaps you are too close to some of these articles to promote them (or otherwise). What's the point in you going on about a "million-dollar, multi-day manhunt across two countries" when it's just one mad guy being chased by cops because he was accused of killing one cop and a couple of other people, when you then think that a world-reknown Olympic athlete who is accused of shooting his girlfriend dead isn't worth the discussion? You've lost the context. We (the world) are sick and tired of US gun crime stories (hence the lack of world interest in your cop killer) but are naturally inclined to be interested (hence in the news) in a story about a disabled athlete who has featured in both the Paralympics and Olympics who is accused of shooting his girlfriend (on Valentines Day, but that's an aside). Double standard? No, we're just sick of the systemic bias towards US shootings which seem to happen every couple of months. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:41, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you indeed, hopefully you won't get too involved in promoting (or otherwise) these articles which seem to have worked you up too much. Thanks in advance. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:56, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Remind me again of the last time I cared how my actions were judged here. Admins often get flack for acting upon (generally posting) nominations that aren't unanimously aligned in one direction. I do not care enough about my Internet reputation to give a damn, especially when the judge is someone with the passion and propensity to misinterpret that you've expressed in this subthread. If you have a problem with that, take it up in the appropriate forum -- i.e. not here. -- tariqabjotu21:25, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, I wasn't expressing any desire to do anything other than remind you that your recent edits here have shown a distinct bias. No worries, you keep on keeping on Tariq, you're doing okay, but stay cool and neutral. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:29, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I don't see how this is notable enough to post but the shootout and firefight at a cabin in Southern California following a killing spree and subsequent manhunt isn't. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:39, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Because a sacked psycho cop going nuts and being accused of killing three people in the US and then being burnt to death by the sheriff and his men is commonplace. A legendary Olympic and Paralympic athlete known across the globe for breaking down boundaries being accused of murder is far from commonplace. Perspective. If it helps, think OJ. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:42, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Commonplace? The situation in So Cal was commonplace? I don't even know how to respond to that aside from throwing up my hands and walking away. – Muboshgu (talk) 20:06, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment regardless of the outcome here, I think the slant on "Valentines Day" in the first blurb suggestion is too tabloid, it's suggestive and unnecessary for an encyclopedia. Perhaps just stick with the alt blurb or a variant thereof. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:42, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral I'll admit that this is in the news; however, I fear that posting this would be a WP:BLP issue. Per WP:CRIMINAL we must assume innocence until proven guilty. If Pistorius was a suspect, but didn't commit the crime, there'd be major problems with our having posted it. That said, sources are not saying he's only a suspect, they are saying he's been charged. The fact that he has actually been charged is what keeps me from opposing, but I'm still only neutral on the issue. RyanVesey18:45, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed, as I said, he's in court tomorrow, perhaps we make the decision then, if he pleads not guilty to murder/manslaughter then we probably ought to hold off. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:50, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I'd be fine with that. His girlfriend has an article, I see it's got a notability tag. I haven't checked to see what my thoughts on her notability are. That said, if she is notable, there's a possibility that Reeva Steenkamp is murdered... could be the blurb. It avoids the BLP issue; however, it also creates the side issue that her murder isn't necessarily in the news, the in the news aspect is the fact that Oscar Pistorius was charged. I'm just throwing the thought out. RyanVesey18:54, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Also I don't think we can say that she was murdered unless and until Pistorius (or someone else) pleads guilty to murder or is convicted of it. For all we know, he may argue that it was manslaughter, suicide or accidental death, and he could be successful. Neljack (talk) 22:11, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose We usually do a good job of avoiding celeb news. The event itself (a murder, apparently domestic) is not rare enough to be on ITN; Pistorius may be well known, but he is not important. If he is incarcerated, the only impact will be different winners of races that, outside the once every four years Paralympics, garner very little general interest, and some adverts on South African billboards will feature a different face marketing phones or sunglasses. Kevin McE (talk) 18:56, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
You're right about the outcome, but I see this like the OJ case. And we all know that was significant enough for ITN had ITN existed back then (and with historical hindsight etc etc). Would you be amenable to seeing how it goes tomorrow in court when he makes his plea? He's not just a Paralympian, by the way, he's the only disabled athlete to succeed in the non-Paralympic Olympics, getting to the semi-final of the 400m. This is hardly "celeb news", more a "cultural icon who has defied disability to succeed news" item. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:04, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I would regard the OJ thing as notorious, but in no way significant. Total media disproportionality, and I can see the same happening here. I'm hoping that ITN can remain, as we usually have, immune to the fusion of news and Hello Magazine. Kevin McE (talk) 19:41, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed, but it's undeniable that this is in the news and it is significant beyond Pistorius being a regular athlete, OJ was an "American hero", Oscar is an athletic "god" because of what he's achieved, the barriers he's broken, etc etc. And yes, in due course, I suspect Oscar will be "notorious". But I accept that's speculative, of course. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:04, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Beckham signing for PSG was in the news, dispute over custodianship of Michael Jackson's children was in the news, Cameron leaving his kid in the pub was in the news: all sorts of personality driven drivel has been in the news. ITN has a proud tradition of not being drawn into it. Kevin McE (talk) 21:04, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Not sure that any of your examples really compare to an Olympic athlete who has transcended disability boundaries shooting his girlfriend dead, but we'll see. If you really believe this to be "drivel", I'm surprised. Tomorrow is another day. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:32, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I see this like the OJ case. And we all know that was significant enough for ITN had ITN existed back then [...] I would have probably opposed posting the OJ case when he was arrested for exactly the same reason (celeb. gossip). I would have supported posting the verdict. At this stage we know very little of the case at hand. You seem to be suggesting that this will be like the OJ case. Nobody knows at this stage, and claiming otherwise is WP:CRYSTAL. --hydrox (talk) 21:29, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support We have a very good article about Pistorius, and it would be nice to highlight that article on the main page, given that this is a story that is in the news all over the world. Readers of Wikipedia from many parts of the world are likely to have heard this story, and it would be nice if we highlighted out article about him to provide them with some additional reading. --Jayron3219:01, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support Massively notably sporting individual, think Lance Armstrong, Beckham, Bolt; Pistorious is not far behind. This is world wide news, headline all day on BBC. Blurbs are both poor, grammatically wrong. Leaky Caldron19:33, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral I'm torn. Make no mistake, I think putting this up prior to a trial would be in poor taste. However, anyone with a passing interest in sport is aware of the story, so provided that we communicate his plea, I don't see the potential for harm to the subject. With that out of the way, this is huge – far outside the ordinary cycle and worthy of significant coverage in the encyclopaedia regardless of the outcome. So in summary, my head says that this is clear-cut ITN material, my heart says that posting would be grubby and premature. —WFC— FL wishlist20:43, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - Sensationalist story and inappropriate at this phase - if there is a court trial and ruling, perhaps then. Those with BLP concerns raise an interesting point, but for me a Front page blurb on this figure now is a step in the wrong direction for ITN. Jusdafax20:58, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Not in the slightest "sensationalist", actually just proper tragic. Pistorius hasn't indicated that he will deny this crime yet, we'll see tomorrow how he pleads in court. Then you can bang on about "sensationalism" and "inappropriateness". The Rambling Man (talk) 21:01, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Whether or not this is in the news around the world seems kind of irrelevant given that argument has been used and ignored for countless items in the past. This is tabloid news, and this guy cannot really be compared to the likes of Bolt and Armstrong because he did not win Olympic gold and, I'm assuming, won't have the history and record books of the sport drastically rewritten because of a potential conviction. Furthermore, he has yet to even appear in court and I think it would be a huge mistake to post this before he is even convicted of a crime. It may have all just been an accident, so posting this is also premature. --PlasmaTwa221:17, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose posting the arrest; if convicted, then it could be posted. It's certainly notable when someone who drew fame and attention during the world's premier sports event gets into serious trouble. 331dot (talk) 21:37, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose The criteria for ITN direct us to assess the event's "significance", not the interest in it. While there's clearly lots of interest in this, I struggle to see that it has much wider significance. Neljack (talk) 23:10, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support. The arrest on suspicion of murder of someone who is the most significant figure in his field *in history* is not significant? WTF? Plus, how long is it since South Africa, a significant country for whom en.wp is the home Wikipedia, got an ITN mention? Formerip (talk) 23:44, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Suspect has not yet been convicted. We do not want to prematurely post incorrect information (yes, the blurb is neutral and correct), but an arrest for murder in and of itself is not notable enough. SpencerT♦C
Oppose I came here to support, if it had been nominated, but the strength of the oppose arguments has swayed me. If he's convicted at a later date, that's the time to run it. An optimist on the run! 08:28, 15 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Pistorious has "strongly rejected" the murder charge, so I guess we should put this to bed, because otherwise it's speculation and certainly, as noted above, runs the risk of becoming a tabloid-esque trial by Wikipedia. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:03, 15 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
He is not a "minor figure". He doesn't have to have a large medal haul to be a "major figure", he merely has to receive a lot of attention or do something unusual to draw attention in his sport(which he has). 331dot (talk) 16:55, 16 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Utter rubbish. There are dozens of sources saying he's the most famous paralympian, the most famous South African after Nelson Mandela, the best known runner in the world after Usain Bolt. Try not to let your odd reasoning get in the way of objective sourcing. The Rambling Man (talk) 16:46, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Nominator's comments: The boards of both airlines have approved the merger. The official announcement will be later today - my suggested blurb presumes that we will wait for the official announcement before posting. ----Bongwarrior (talk) 01:54, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support Big news in the airline industry. It's the third merger of it's kind since 2008, however. They keep trying to one-up each-other to be the "world's biggest airline". I find it odd, however, that the Delta-NWA merger was not posted, yet the United-Continental merger was posted. No idea what will happen this time. -- Anc516 (Talk ▪ Contribs) 04:12, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose It's basically this or bankruptcy (from the source: "The deal caps a turbulent period of bankruptcies and consolidation") it doesn't indicate any sort of growth or innovation worth showcasing. Some execs will get buyouts, ticket prices will increase and less competition will mean fewer choices for the consumer--i.e., same old same old. μηδείς (talk) 04:33, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support pending updates and changes to existing articles. Only question is, what is the new airline to be called? A better blurb would be "American Airlines and US Airways announce a merger to form the world's largest airline JoeBlogs Airline" if that is possible. - Shuddetalk08:57, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Strike that - should have been more careful. A blurb that clarifies that the new airline will be called American Airlines would be good though. - Shuddetalk
Support, after the boards make the official announcement later today. Creation of the world's biggest airline is highly notable, regardless of their reasons and motives for merging. Nsk92 (talk) 09:01, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Support in principle, but I'm wondering if we should wait for approval by US antitrust regulators and the judge involved(which seems likely, but still). 331dot (talk) 10:20, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose for now. The Dell LBO debacle is still a bit too recent. We posted that at the same stage and it is now looking probable that it will not go though, at least in the form that was announced. That shows why we have WP:CRYSTAL and why we don't jump the gun on these things. 3142 (talk) 13:14, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Wait Support once approved. Unlike the Dell buyout (which was far less of a debacle than a damned bus crash), this is subject to regulatory approval, and will make news again once approved. --IP98 (talk) 15:28, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Brilliant contribution. Of course, RA's concern is entirely valid, there will always big a "biggest airline" in the world, does this news story actually progress it significantly or is it just a statistical nudge up the ladder? As for "most important athlete"... I'm not sure when that ever featured at ITN, perhaps you're referring to Oscar Pistorius, the most prominent Paralympian in history who is currently accused of murdering his girlfriend? The Rambling Man (talk) 18:54, 15 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for acknowledging the brilliance of my observation. Of course, I was referring to Sachin Tendulkar batting 100 centuries in cricket, or Lionel Messi scoring the most goals in association football in a calendar year. Both utterly arbitrary milestones in a narrow classification of their fields, and both with praise heaped upon them. Tendulkar was actually posted, Messi, mercifully, was not. --IP98 (talk) 16:13, 16 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
References
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