Hello, Krenakarore, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for registering an account. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:
I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Also, I think that you might be interested in the adopt-a-user project, where advanced editors can guide you in your editing; so check it out if you want. Again, welcome! - CobaltBlueTony™talk16:30, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks a lot for the warm welcome to Wikipedia. I am really greatful for all the tools ( they do come in handy ! ) and also for your tags on my latest article, Sedma. I re-wrote it this afternoon without all those line breaks pinpointing here and there.
I am a card game researcher and really enjoy reading, talking and writing about games. I am not an expert in computer science because I was born in a world without them, so I hope to be doing the right thing among so many pages, links and entries around me.
If you want to create subpages of your user space in future, it is quite easy to use [[/Page name]], which will create the link within your space automatically, and you can go from there. -- roleplayer18:11, 16 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks a million for the advice. How can I rename the page: Subpages, for: Edit Info, to prevent links to my User page ? Can you delete the other: Krenakarore/Sub-Articles for me ? Krenakarore (talk) 18:33, 16 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I just became aware of your edits to articles on historically important card games. It's an area where I also hope to become more active, although I am more specifically interested in the history of modern card games. Unfortunately Wikipedia's card games articles are generally in a very poor state, probably reflecting the state of this much neglected field of research. I have several of David Parlett's books, and I was planning to use them together with the Pagat site to clean things up. Due to the chaotic structure here – sometimes with one article discussing several quite different variants while several much closer variants are known elsewhere under a slightly different name and have their own article (e.g. Belote, Belot, Baloot, Pilotta) – I ran out of steam. I also experimented with Citizendium, where on can simply start writing a big article from the beginning. See citizendium:Jass–Belote card games.
I won't have much time in the next few weeks, but perhaps you would be interested in a joint project later? Editing is much more interesting if there is meaningful feedback and surprising good input from someone else. HansAdler11:50, 13 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with you as for the present state of the articles in the field of card games. When I first tried to find any information on the game of Khanhoo, which I have been playing for ten years, and found none, I began editing every single day. I would really like to join forces with you and find some other editors too, so we can form a group. The reason I am presently working on ancient card games is that I need a starting point. Karnoffel, Primero, Maw - collecting now info for an article about it - Ombre (finished), Loo (finished), Nap (finished) etc...). The point-trick games of your research field are cousins of the games that I am editing now.
Today, working on Nap, I read something like: " This variation, is now widely accepted ", which means: that variation wasn't known very much long before the book was written (in 1891). Info like this help us date the games and their evolution.
If you want to make changes in the articles, and I believe you do, go and make the changes you see fit (once you have written proof of what your saying) and let the polemic topics for those who don't know much about the subject. If they can provide proof of what they're saying, so much the better. If its about major changes you wanna make, shoot first and ask later ! I for one believe in fixing articles, something more productive than tagging them.
I am leaving Prague for a couple of weeks now. We could work on a couple of games (Jass is a good one. The article in Wiki suchs) in September. So, you can count me on this journey yes, don't expect me to stay......:) !
Thanks for this brilliant article - have you considered submitting it to WP:DYK? It gets it on the mainpage (and it's always nice to see your work there), plus I find that the readers tend to give it a free copyedit and expansion. Ironholds (talk) 23:19, 13 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks a million for this information. Anything to improve the article would be greatly appreciated. My next article will be The Revells of Christendome, because it has everything to do with Maw (That's how I got to know of Thomas Cockson, by the way). Krenakarore (talk) 10:31, 14 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
No problemo - I'll take a look at Cockson's article this evening, spruce it up and send it to DYK; we can both get credit for the work, and the article gets a free shinying up. Ironholds (talk) 13:27, 14 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not familiar with catching the fox; I just removed the image because it was of a German deck, with which most most English-speaking players wouldn't be familiar. --Sift&Winnow20:53, 19 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I know, that's what I said... too much work. A few card game pictures will be changed later. You can check the picture now... is it better ? Listen I have been thinking. Maybe you could help me date the game. I have found 1886 in [1]. Maybe you could go further back in time ! I checked the Univeristy of Wisconsin today, but I couldn't find a thing there. I read about the game the whole day because I am tracin' its lineage together with a few others. Maybe you could help Sift ! Wouldn't you like to keep writing about the game and expand it ? Many terms yet not listed. Here, this book is incomplete (unfortunately) [2], but it helps a lot !
Here it is: Ties are avoided by counting an additional point for winning the A ♦ in a trick. This is known as "catching the fox". Oxford Dictionary of Card Games, p. 255, David Parlett. Krenakarore (talk) 21:23, 19 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I updated the information yesterday night ! I know you're busy with something else, but in case you can date Sheepshead in America, please, update the info for me ok ? All the best from Prague Krenakarore (talk) 19:19, 20 September 2009 (UTC).[reply]
Ah, sorry to see the photo has been deleted by some Commons busybody. I have had this problem myself. And I object to such a speedy removal of a photo whose original date was over 70 years ago. Macdonald-ross (talk) 20:42, 24 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It's just ok, although "four lines longer" is something quite subjective. Does that apply to RMS Titanic too !
I didn't have "time" to work on the article anyway, hence that "public domain" source. Krenakarore (talk) 07:31, 30 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Greeting from Prague Ammar,
You have created the article Baloot a few years ago, but some references are still missing there pal. I am trying to find any historical info on the subject, so we can date the game (and that's important !). There's really no problem if the refs are in Arabic, as long as I can put 'em there. Could you do me this favor ? Krenakarore (talk) 15:17, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
Hello my friend, Sure; i'll try to find some references as soon as possible. But i don't think it's possible to find the beginning date easily. A M M A R 01:33, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Yes Ammar, I know how much difficult that might be. It's hard to date playing cards too, so we usually find things like 1880-1900, but any info on the game would be greatly appreciated. Thanks once again Krenakarore (talk) 11:01, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
From the article Baloot it seems to me that Baloot is exactly the same as Belote (and various other games that also have their own Wikipedia articles and shouldn't). It's surprising to me that this game is played in Saudi Arabia. But now that I know it is played there, the fact that most of its terms have Arabic equivalents don't seem at all remarkable to me. Note that the two articles contradict each other: Belote claims that "the rules in the Saudi version are very different from the rules generally played by in Europe", but Baloot claims "the few differences between the two games are because of the bad translations and the heavy french tongue."
It would be nice to clarify this. There are several likely explanations, and I have no idea which is correct.
Perhaps the editor who stressed the differences wasn't aware that even within France there are many quite different variants of Belote, the two most important sometimes distinguished as Belote coinchée and Belote contrée. (See [4] and the following section on Belote Contrée for a quick overview.) In this case Baloot should be merged into Belote.
Or the editor was distracted by the Arabic terminology. Of course, if you translate trump suit into Arabic, and then translate it back as "Judges suit", it sounds like a different and exotic game. This needs to be fixed.
Or perhaps Baloot describes the official rules, which are exactly the same as in France, while the game is actually played quite differently. In this case the article Balootmust describe the rules of the game as it is actually played; otherwise it's mostly useless.
My dearest mathematician Hans, "Never fear, Krenakarore's here" You know, if Belote (and read Belot, Baloot, Pilotta) has so many entries, you should see Mau Mau (read Switch, Crates, Crazy Eights, Bartok, e.&). The games you're mentioning about shouldn't be merged into one single article because like this we'd be erasing a piece of information on these games. It's like thowing away a piece of the puzzle that we need to put it together.
I tried to find a more precise date as for Belote in dictionaries and encyclopedias. Let us see what Ammar can find in his area, and like this we'll be able to trace the path of the game from one region to another. I am doing so with the All Fours family of games too. When I was working on Euchre, I saw things like five-handed this and four-handed that while on the other hand we already had this info listed somewhere, somehow. So what did I do ? I cleaned that mess, and the work isn't finished yet !
I know that you're into modern card games, so help me with something that probably only you could do. I am trying to find a way to list games according to their lineage, and I think the best way to accomplish this would be if we could use a template like that on the Tarot page. But we need to list the variants too. Let us discuss which game came first and gradually we update the list. It's pretty muck like working with numbers and you'd be in charge of this department, right ? So we create a page and make a lead and provide refs as for the dates on each entry. Have we got a deal ? Krenakarore (talk) 12:06, 5 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm, I tend a bit to mergism (see meta:Mergism) myself, and it sounds as if you may be leaning towards meta:Separatism. In my opinion it follows from Wikipedia's self-description as an encyclopedia, rather than a dictionary, that it doesn't cover basically the same thing under two different headings just because it has different names and uses different terminology in different parts of the world. I would like to improve our coverage of card games by writing big, comprehensive articles (not necessarily spanning many different games like my Citizendium articles; the situation there is different); it would be a shame if they were hidden in a maze of interrelated stubs.
I am not sure what you are proposing or what problem you are trying to solve, as I can't quite follow you. Are you trying to build something like a phylogenetic tree for card games? I doubt it's possible, since we must follow WP:VERIFIABILITY and there isn't much literature on this. And I am not sure what infobox you mean (the one on French tarot perhaps?) or how it is related to anything. Perhaps you can clarify a bit? HansAdler14:22, 7 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Sure I can. I am not Meta this or Meta that. When it comes to merge things I simply merge and that's final. Euchre articles have been merged into one, split apart and also renamed. There's a funny Bacon that still needs to be mulled over (when the time comes). Articles have been visited and "see also", "refs", "infoboxes", "pics", many things really, added to the page. Some have been re-edited, clean-up, because they were created by a Saudi or an Asian editor (that concerns Bartok too or whatever). I hate tags, and Wiki is FULL of tags everywhere (that's not what I call an Encyclopedia). They have to be used for sure, but not indiscriminately as it has, so I am cleaing up the mess. I would like to be doing something more important than cleaning, but you know, Wikies are a lot more concerned about their greatness in Wikipedia (I don't blame them, just would like them to clean the article instead of adding another "clean-up tag" to the top of the page, or an "Orphan tag", instead of linking the page to another article - that's usually done by BOTs, I've been told).
Sure, that's what I had in mind. The French Tarot is a good exemple (not that phylogenetic tree you mentioned about. But that needs to be done separately. We have two great families and subgroups of card games. But they are also inter-related too. Sometimes, contents of a plain trick-taking game is found inside of another from a different subgroup of games. That's how point and meld games were devised right ? Some other times we find games which are very similar to others (I agree with you), variants also, but they need to be classified, and if the merge is imminent so... we merge them.
You wanna create major articles ? Poker, Bridge, Euchre, All-Fours...? You'd be then re-creating these pages I think (as far as card games are concerned). But we can go further and create related articles about so many other games, or even the ones I mentioned about. Just the other day I found a book about "cheating", so that I could finally understand why All-Fours is considered a game of ill-repute ! There's so much to do Hans. Trust your feelings, let's move ahead, if you push the brakes, the car stops......:) ! Krenakarore (talk) 15:00, 7 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the invitation, I'm looking forward to improving Wikipedia pages about games. I'll have a look at some articles and see if I can add to them. If you have any ideas or something specific on the project that needs to be done, I can help out. PokitJaxx (talk) 16:43, 18 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Your starting point begins from a category. If card games (my field) visit Category:Card games, if games in general visit Category:Games. Card games are divided into several subgroups, i.e, Matching card games, Trick-taking card games and so on. I am cleaning the pages, merging articles, proposing deletions when necessary, adding pics, See also sections, reference sections, pushing up the history section on each article upwards, all according to the previously estabilshed standards. I am a researcher, so my major search engine is Google Books, which leads me directly to finding refs for all the articles without them. Consider deciding what you would like to do first, based on your expertise on the subject and natural habilities. It's important that you enjoy coming here (saying no, isn't offensive !) I know nothing of computers, so I research and edit.
If you want to give me a hand, I am tracing the lineage of card games like All-Fours. If you are in America, which seems to be the case, help me find refs for this article (you'll find related articles like Auction Pitch, Smear (card game), Cinch (card game), Phat (card game) and Pedro (card game) - all games leading to New Orleans via Mississipi. History of theese games in America is important. You can try dictionaries, encyclopedias and so on. We need dates, the older the better).
By the way, try the Special pages in the toolbox on your left 'cos it helps finding your way around Wiki. If you wish to color your Userpage, try some Userboxes. Write something about yourself and your aim in Wiki (this helps establish an id - read confidence). Krenakarore (talk) 17:50, 18 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for your help, I appreciate it. As for your suggestion about All-Fours games, I'm unfortunately from south Europe, so I won't be of much help when it comes to American card games. I noticed pages about card games that are widely played in my country, though, and I'll try to expand and correct them if necessary. I'll have a look at Wikipedia rules, so I may also be able to lend you a hand with online references on your card game pages. PokitJaxx (talk) 18:13, 19 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
http://belot-rules.hit.bg/ Here are some rules in Bulgarian (these seem exhaustive, although my knowledge of Bulgarian is very limited)
If you want, I can translate these pages for you. Also, I'm probably gonna visit the library tommorow, so I'll let you know if I find anything there. PokitJaxx (talk) 20:42, 23 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the sources, this was amazing. No problem about the language, I can manage it here. Listen, try Google Books and reference a few statements in the text of Belot for me. Read a few paragraphs and place references to the sentences, that's all ! I guy complained today about this, tagged the page, fueled it with "Citations Needed" here and there, but didn't even bother look for references or sources the way that you did. Your help is appreciated. Thanks once again. Krenakarore (talk) 20:57, 23 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry for the delay, I did not notice the message. I did try Google Books, but unfortunately it appears that Belot is also a French surname and Bela is a Hungarian given name. Thus, I didn't find any usable results (I also tried books.google.hr to no avail). :( PokitJaxx (talk) 21:32, 24 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks a billion man. Two of the sites you showed me are now in the Ext. Links on Belot. If you want to create some inline citations linking to Belotklub somewhere on the text, it will be alright. At least you tried, and that was very good from your part. Thank you once again ! Krenakarore (talk) 21:45, 24 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
There's a problem with your name change, in that some of those listed were mainly notable as bridge administrators and were not particularly distinguished as players. That applies to most of those in the "European Bridge League - Medals of Distinction" section. I think that the previous name is a more accurate description of the contents of the list. JH (talk page) 16:59, 22 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
As I usually say: saying no, isn't offensive. I'm glad that you took it up with me before any more moves. You're right as for the administrators, nonetheless bridge administrators are also bridge players. If notable or not, that is the question ! Can we both rename the article ? List of bridge players and administrators ? You got any sugestion ? The article could be enhanced if we could diagram it better. The section Other Notables could be alocated inside one of those bottom templates like that one on the Tarot page. A brief text could also enhance the article. What do you think Jhall1 ? Krenakarore (talk) 20:18, 22 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
As for the title, possibly "List of bridge players, administrators and writers". Mollo and Kelsey, for instance, were best known for their writing about the game. I think that the article's biggest problem is that many of those "European Bridge League - Medals of Distinction" winners aren't really all that well known. It looks rather like it was a case of EBL administrators awarding medals to other European admininstrators; all very cosy. In contrast, the ACBL Hall of Fame is predominantly made up of genuinely notable players. I'd be inclined to omit the EBL section altogether. Anyone who is genuinely notable as an administrator could be placed elsewhere in the article. But before doing anything drastic, we should probably discuss it on the article's own talk page. Meanwhile it's nearly 10pm here in the UK, so I'm off to bed. :) JH (talk page) 20:59, 22 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
11:30 p.m in Prague. List of bridge players, writers and administrators sounds better when we speak, but that really makes no difference. As for the changes, you are right again. The best would be if we could split the article into two, placing players on one side and writers and adminisrators on the other. So, we could expand it around those bridge players and include some others on the section Other Notables, that would make a substancial difference. Agreed, let's talk a bit more on a better approach to the subject. That's not a case for discussion though, but action. Krenakarore (talk) 21:33, 22 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Krenakarore - my God, it has been a long time I didn't log in here! I'm hardly competent to translate these articles, but I was in contact with the creator of the former. So I will ask him whether he wants to do so. --KnightMove (talk) 00:18, 27 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Both games can be found at Pagat.com, no problem. The important for me now is to date both card games. History is encyclopedic ! If you can find dates for these games, that would be just great. Thanks for your concern. Krenakarore (talk) 00:29, 27 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the response. Personally, I think no image is better than a confusing image of the eight of clubs (which has no special relevance to any of these games). It adds nothing to the reader's understanding, and just raises the question "so where does the eight of clubs come in?" I'll find a talk page to raise the matter on, though. --Gnomus (talk) 12:06, 29 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Incidentally, infobox images shouldn't be thumbnailed - this renders them with a redundant border, and an uneven offset, on most browsers. --Gnomus (talk) 12:10, 29 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Dear friend, when I first came to Wikipedia, all card games were in poor state. Most didn't have entries, heading, leads, refs and, or, images. I don't like some of the images here either, but I can't disrupt what others did. Whenever I find something better, I replace the ones which have nothing to do with the article for another. Also, you will soon notice that some of the articles in this field have the same image (vide All-Fours group of games, Euchre, Belote and so on.) That's because they are related to one another. Card games follow a pattern, they form groups of games all related and in progression from one type to another. You have probably noticed that I only make editings on card games. That's because I have thirty years of research on my back to know what I am doing. It would be wonderful if we could work together as a team. You can disagree, and I respect your right to disagree on what other editors did, but please, one at a time. No need for discussions, you can go straight ahead and contribute with a better image, a better entry, info, ref or anything else you see fit. As I usually say: saying no, isn't offensive ! Your constibutions are valuable to me and all the other editors who are now patroling pages. Some are jealous about their contributions, so if you undo what they did you will soon find out that you'll have made enemies instead of friends. We are here to listen to what you have to say, and as I said in the edit summary: You can change the pictures that you think don't contribute to the article, but you need to replace them for another, thus being constructive. When I play cards, I don't play for winning the game, I play for the best move in the game, so that when my opponent comes up with an incredible move I clap hands. Once again, thank you for your recent contributions on the Beggar_my-Neighbour article. Your friend,
PS: Some pictures are very big, if not limited by thumbs. Although they shouldn't, many editors use them when necessary. I am affraid you'll find thousands of articles like this. What if it comes to be one in Barack Obama's page, or Titanic ? Some pages are really troublesome. You can increase or reduce them you want to, or even remove the thumbnail if that doesn't call more attention than the article itself. There's something about this topic on Wiki somewhere, a norm I need to comply with. Krenakarore (talk) 12:46, 29 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I appreciate that Wikipedia advances through small increments, but sometimes removing an image can be an improvement, if it is unduly confusing or unclear. I've started a discussion at Talk:Mao (card game) to see what other editors think.
Template:Infobox has some guidelines on how to use images in infoboxes. You can resize an image without explicitly making it a thumbnail - the "thumb" keyword in an image tag means "put a border around it, room for a caption underneath and align it to a margin", which isn't appropriate for an infobox. --Gnomus (talk) 14:09, 29 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
No need for a thumb nail to keep the size of a picture. The image caption can be used once a line to the image is inserted. That could be done in the image link as well. I didn't place the thumbnails there, I found many articles like this, so I left 'em there. If you want to remove the "unpleasant border" go ahead, but keep the size of the pictures. Too big is unsuitable, as you know (that was your first move in Wiki, no ?).
Removal of images may be considered personal POV. Couldn't you replace the picture(s) if you consider it('em) unsuitable ? I didn't place all the pictures there anyway. Some may be improper as for the game played, nonetheless they all depict cards. If I remove all the pics that I consider unsuitable for one reason or another, I will find trouble with other editors and may be blocked ( don't you agreed with me ?).
As I say, I've raised this on a talk page to make sure this isn't just my own personal opinion, and am in no way making this a "tug of war". But a bad picture can be worse than no picture; if I added a generic picture of a domestic chicken to the unillustrated Andalusian (chicken) article, I would fully expect another editor to remove that picture for being confusing (rather than expecting it to stay there until someone provided a better alternative). --Gnomus (talk) 16:33, 29 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
This is an automated message from CorenSearchBot. I have performed a web search with the contents of William Neal, and it appears to include a substantial copy of http://www.rockcliffegallery.co.uk/artists_detail.asp?offset=20. For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material; such additions will be deleted. You may use external websites as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences. See our copyright policy for further details.
This message was placed automatically, and it is possible that the bot is confused and found similarity where none actually exists. If that is the case, you can remove the tag from the article and it would be appreciated if you could drop a note on the maintainer's talk page. CorenSearchBot (talk) 18:42, 6 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I've clicked on the link I posted and it opened in three different windows, three different times. Perhaps YOUR computer is having trouble. Maybe try loading something in a new window if your comp has errors, etc. And there is no reason to get snarky, "pal". Michaelh2001 (talk) 21:24, 14 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
That's how I call "my friends", specially when they revert editions 3X. What does the city bank lobby door has to do with that ? If I don't remove that, another editor will, because there's something we need to comply with: WP:NOT and WP:EL. Krenakarore (talk) 21:28, 14 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Semiprotected means protected from IPs and new users, i.e., you can edit it yourself. Surely I can add the text, but I think you deserve the glory of authorship yourself :-) - Altenmann >t23:04, 15 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
It IS interesting - and I mean, I'm a musical guy, I did classical piano for years, and I'd love to hear about the Beethoven connection - but as far as the wikipedia article goes, some dude's speculation on the subject isn't particularly helpful. I'm pretty sure you could argue that even mention of someone's speculation isn't helpful. So I'm just sayin', unless there's a record of whatshisname actually making the statement that the composer was inspirational, or a more in-depth discussion of the connection, it probably doesn't belong there. Fair?
-- - matt lohkamp17:51, 16 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
This is an automated message from CorenSearchBot. I have performed a web search with the contents of Bystrianska Cave, and it appears to be a substantial copy of http://www.nizketatry.sk/ciele/bjaskyna/en.html. For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material; such additions will be deleted. You may use external websites as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences. See our copyright policy for further details. (If you own the copyright to the previously published content and wish to donate it, see Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials for the procedure.)
This message was placed automatically, and it is possible that the bot is confused and found similarity where none actually exists. If that is the case, you can remove the tag from the article and it would be appreciated if you could drop a note on the maintainer's talk page. CorenSearchBot (talk) 17:17, 24 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Looks like a good idea to me: indeed, both are located in the national park, and one can only say so much about them (i.e. they are unlikely to ever be expanded beyond start class). So, these two would work well as sections in the main article on the national park. GregorB (talk) 13:52, 4 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I'd do it, but I'm not sure when I'd get around to it... Also, I suppose you'd be slightly more efficient doing it, since you wrote on the subtopics. GregorB (talk) 20:44, 23 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Hello Krenakarore. Thanks for the article, it is a very good piece of work. This summer I've played there with my band, it is a wonderful place! I've seen the most beautiful ironworks in my life. Thanks again man, keep up the good work. --Vejvančický (talk | contribs) 14:49, 1 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
It's always nice when readers like that which they read. The article will get even better when other editors join the ride ! Thanks for your support. Krenakarore (talk) 18:40, 1 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
It seems that the name Khanhoo derives from a term in Mahjong, as you may locate the word in Mahjong#Mahjong in the Western world. As for the Chinese synonym, it cannot be easily retrieved on the Internet with the key word Khanhoo (possibly due to its nonexistence in China), but I think it is tantamount to "看虎" (pinyin: Kanhǔ) or "看湖" (pinyin: Kanhú) considering its pronunciation, as you may find here at 麻将, at "和牌" section. Both words are phonetical derivatives from "和牌". Here is the original text:
PLUS, I found another text from [5] about 马吊牌, first Chinese playings card since Ming Dynasty. It says that 看虎 is actually a simplified version of 马吊牌:
Alright, I didn't know you can't read Chinese. The comprehensive meaning of the first 3 Chinese paragraphs noted above is probably about the derivation of Khanhoo. It says (and I parapharse): Hu (和) is a state where a player has a certain combined set of Mahjong tiles that turns out to be victory and wins. Winning is called hú (胡) in Chinese.
The name Hu dates back to two games Mohu poker (默和牌) and Penghu poker (碰和牌) (I translate the names from pinyin regardless of accuracy). Of them Mohu poker, as I further search Chinese references on the Internet, is a derivative of Madiao poker (马吊牌)(this is mentioned in the last Chinese paragraph noted above). Kanhu (phonetically related to Khanhoo, but Khanhoo is some sort of Wade-Giles or something rather than pinyin, I don't know), is one of games with the terminological component Hu. There are many other games with the name Hu.
The last Chinese paragraph says: Dohu, also known as Kanhu, is one of the gambling games during Ming Dynasty. It actually blah blah blah... (all about the gameplay).... It is a simplified derivative form of Madiao poker (马吊牌).
In conclusion, and I reference some Chinese articles, Madiao poker, which emerged in Ming Dynasty, is the first card game in Chinese history, yet many people deny that because they think Yezixi (叶子戏), which dates back to Tang Dynasty is the first one. Nevertheless, other people contradict that again because they assert that Yezixi is not based on paper card but some other stuff like bamboo or sth. Finally, whether true or not, the Chinese Wikipedia article of Yezixi (叶子戏) has its first paraprah stating:
It means: Madiao (poker), is initially a playing card game and was initially known as Yezixi, has 40 cards, and 4 flowers(Shiwanguan, Wanguan, Suozi, Wenqian), later evolved into Mahjong.
Thus, I think Khanhoo (Kanhu), is a derivative form of Madiao, and Madiao (Ming Dynasty) may be some kind of derivative from Yezixi (Tang Dynasty, but this cannot be substantiated). As to the name Khanhoo, as mentioned, is related to the term Hu, but I don't know where and when it can be finally traced back to.
Ccyber5, this is simply wonderful ! I thank you once more for opening a door into a world that I wished to enter. I have been playing the Khanhoo for the past 15 years. I wish to expand the article with as much historical information as possible and dates are precious ! You have just left me with a very good piece of information. So, researching about Madiao, I stumbled upon this:
MO HE PAI
Mo He Pai is a card game using the paper cards to play with. It is played by 4 players with two money-suit 30 card deck carrying the following patterns:
Wen Qian (money note), from 1 through 9
Suo Zi (string), from 1 through 9
Wan Guan (10-thousand-coin), from 1 through 9
"Heads" in 3 patterns (similar to the 3 Khanhoo court cards)
Each player recives 10 cards and then in turn, each player draws and discards a card. Cards are to be formed in 3 consecutive numbers as a "set" and whoever forms 3 sets and a pair in a hand may declare "HE" (The site says that pronunciation is in Chinese Pinyin, and means win).
There were over 30 times of revisions of the Qing law code which banned the game Ma Diao in 1740, although the players had ignored the officials and the law code. Like this, the game of Ma Diao may have evolved into PENG HE PAI. Similar to MO HE PAI, but with slightly different changes, the number of cards was doubled to 120 (4 decks) and the "set" could then be in the forms of "Kan" (3 consecutive numbers), Peng (3 identical pieces) and Gand (4 identical pieces).
Many people believe that between Ma Diao and Mahjong, or Mahjiang in the northern provinces, there were MO HE PAI and PENG HE PAI, and if so, that places the two games right in the mid-18th century. That seems plausible, considering the ban of Ma diao in 1740.
So, you mentioned about a multitude of games with the terminological component "Hu" and that Dohu, also known as Kanhu, was one of the gambling games during Ming Dynasty. That places the game before 1644. What is there about this Dohu game on the site from where you extracted this information ? Can you check it again please ?
I will compound the pieces of information that you kindly provided Ccyber5 and expand the article under the title: Terminology, once much of the explanation you gave concerns the origin of the word Kanhu. Yes, I know a lot about the game because I read as much as I could about it, but only a native can interprete the terms, meanings and elucidate all doubts about the history of a card game like this one, because it's linked to another called Kon Khin or Con Quien in Mexico (probably brought to America by Chinese imigrants from the Philipines once that location was being "ruled" by New Spain - Mexico), then Conquian in California and parts of Central America, Coon Can in the southern US states and the Caribbean, and Cuncá in Brazil, all over a period of 200 years.
First, the time. The site where multiple derivative games of Madiao are laid out is found at [6](Baidu Baike, one of the largest Chinese quasi-wiki encyclopedias, not a third party site). It says Madiao has four derivatives, Dohu (斗虎)(Kanhu)(看虎), Che Zhang (扯张), Peng He Pai(碰和牌), and Mo He Pai(默和牌)(yes, as you have illustrated). However, the article only mentions that Madiao (or Ma Diao) prevailed in late Ming Dynasty, while it waned in early Qing Dynasty, and that both Peng He Pai and Mo He Pai were flourishing during the Qing Dynasty. I mean, the article really doesn't articulate when Dohu (Kanhu) and Che Zhang emerged or prevailed. But through deduction, it can be inferred that Kanhu emerged and at least prevailed after the beginning of Qing Dynasty (during, or pending the Qing Dynasty).
Thanks User:This IsAce. I'll try it, although the sites listed here are subscription sites only available for institutions I guess. I thank you once more, thank you :) ! Krenakarore (talk) 21:46, 2 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Not FA yet ! You're doing a great job there. I'm sorry you feel like this, that's not what I meant, but as I said on the article's talk page you can revert or change anything you see fit. My intention was to make it look better according to the police within our community, not my own point of view. I'd rather see the pictures without simetry though.
I like improving articles, so whenever I see something out of line I try to line it back. I know Gregor because I use to edit Croatian articles. My country has more than 8 milion km2, but unfortunately we don't have a rocky shoreline (read: paradise) as beautiful as the Croatian Adriatic.
I tend to edit articles of minor importance 'cos what I don't want is a headache. I don't have what it takes for complaints. I'm not here for this. Wikipedia is a serious fun and I'm here to cooperate with and learn from, and everytime I'll see you happy, conquering and becoming a better human being, I'll be there to congratulate you for your accomplishments.
I had enough time to enjoy in my layout...:-) Since I don't own the article and since the article looks better now according to the police within our community, you have done a good job. Thank you for your contribution, and I hope to cooperate with you soon. Regards, Kebeta (talk) 10:01, 29 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oh ho... A barnstar for this Brazilian expat from Prague ! Thank you editor Vejvančický for this marvelous compliment. I am honored and gratefully accept it on behalf of your beautiful country. Thank you...:) !
My point was simply that you need not bother pasting the whole article, just link it and its original content as well as history can still be seen. Regarding Rožanski kukovi, I haven't seen that change yet, but that sounds like less of an appropriate move target offhand, because that's a place of different preservation status from the encompassing Sjeverni Velebit national park. Skradinski buk isn't specially protected so I agree with the merge, it's doubtful it would grow on its own. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 18:29, 3 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. It seems there's still a lot I need to know "how to". The merge mentioned, is here → [7], please take a look. That was a suggestion of User:GregorB that I promptly complied with. I had to agree with him once both articles had very little chance of development. Thanks once again.
Please note that external links often constitute references and many articles only have a list of external links. Tagging articles as unreferenced in these cases is largely unhelpful. Please save someone else a job and revisit all the articles you have tagged and correct them accordingly. Regards. wjematherbigissue16:58, 6 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Dear editor Wjemather, there's no way I can tell the difference between an article sourced by an external link from one which isn't, judging exclusively by my own point of view. I just did what I thought was right, that is, to tag the articles without references. Actually, I have never done that before because I simply hate tags. Until today I didn't tag anything. Instead, I provided sources in order to remove that "January-2007 tag".
...Please, why there are so many tags on articles sourced only by external links ? There are thousands... hundreds of thousands... I don't understand (?). Clicking the Ramdom article buttom today simply made me see things that I had never seen before. Articles without references, poorly written, with extreme lack of caress, pictures spread all over the page as if the page itself were a gallery section, non-notable "articles", people who refuse to clean up all those dead links (Cartoon) by saying: "the information should be preserved", people who prefer their version to other editors' version, guidelines that say something while other guidelines say something else, one that tells me that verifiability is one of the five pillars on Wikipedia while the other says:
"If an article has no references, and you are unable to find any yourself, you can tag the article with the template (Unreferenced), so long as it is not "nonsensical" or a biography of a living person (?), in which case request admin assistance."
I've been on Wikipedia for about 3 years, always saying: "please do care, don't do that, no spam please, no vandalism, why all this fuss about the article being called Faust Vrancic or Fausto Verancio while there are so many other pages that need a lot more attention, please help, don't do that, Wikipedia is everything, behave yourself, don't complain about the articles...", and all I see around is: tags, 2008-tags, May-2009 tags, citations needed templates, and all we want (and that includes you I'm sure) is that instead of tagging why not spend 1 or 2 minutes to source "that" article. It seems nobody wanna know as long as another article is credited, another self-rewarded barnstar is given, 156.000 edit counts manually reached.
Please dear editor Wjemather, don't take me amiss, I guess I just feel a bit stupid among 3.5 million articles thinking that everything is perfect and that I am doing the right thing. Because that's how I feel right now, a complete idiot for devoting my "everyday", thinking that I will make any difference (check the time pattern of my editing).
I will be glad to visit the page that you care for, that you love, that you're watching, and remove, undo or revert my move, but again, and that's the real truth, I can't tell the difference between one article sourced by an external link and one which isn't once an external link can only provide complementary reference to references already listed. If you say: this is the article that I would like you to remove the tag, and it must be a sports one I'm sure (seeing that you're a sportsman), then I promptly will.
Sorry, I don't think it is that difficult to tell the difference. As a simple rule, if an article has an external link, then it is probably a source of some kind and it does not take that long to check out the link(s) to find out. In which case a {{refimprove}} tag may be appropriate, or if they are sites directly related to the subject then {{primarysources}} is a more specific tag.
Hello Krenakarore, that's a nice article you wrote there. Would you terribly mind though if I changed the infobox to {{infobox island}} instead of georegion? I think since it is an island we should take the appropriate template. De728631 (talk) 21:12, 15 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
It is possible that the bot is confused and found similarity where none actually exists. If that is the case, you can remove the tag from the article. The article will be reviewed to determine if there are any copyright issues.
If substantial content is duplicated and it is not public domain or available under a compatible license, it will be deleted. For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material. You may use such publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences. See our copyright policy for further details. (If you own the copyright to the previously published content and wish to donate it, see Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials for the procedure.) CorenSearchBot (talk) 21:48, 15 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
It is possible that the bot is confused and found similarity where none actually exists. If that is the case, you can remove the tag from the article. The article will be reviewed to determine if there are any copyright issues.
If substantial content is duplicated and it is not public domain or available under a compatible license, it will be deleted. For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material. You may use such publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences. See our copyright policy for further details. (If you own the copyright to the previously published content and wish to donate it, see Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials for the procedure.) CorenSearchBot (talk) 02:02, 17 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, I have just written Ristikontra and submitted it to DYK for a few hours of mainpage fame. I am not very happy with the current state of the Sedma article, and as I have just done all the research about this tiny group of games I am going to rewrite the article to address the following issues:
Integrate information on Zsírozás. The published rules for that game are almost precisely the same as those for four-player Sedma. Basically the differences are game orientation (standard orientation in Hungary is counter-clockwise as in Tarot), a tiny rule detail (whether the leader to a trick headed by the dealer's partner may continue it), and different scoring. These differences are much less than the differences between the 2-, 3- and 4-player versions that are currently in the article, even though the differences are unrelated to the different player numbers. So I think it's fair to say it's all the same folk game under two names.
Describe Hola as a variant of Sedma. Apparently all accounts of Hola are based on a version played by Ukrainian-Americans, and a possible Polish origin seems to be only conjectured. (I found no evidence that the game is or was played in Poland, but as I don't speak Polish that doesn't mean much.) Therefore I am not sure whether in Europe it was played with 32 or 52 cards. I will present it without hiding the uncertainties.
I am happy about your original research and don't want to lose this. Some of it is actually sourced for Zsírozás, and some can simply go into a "Variations" section. We generally get away with a bit of OR there.
There is some close paraphrasing of DP's text in the article. I will rewrite this completely to make sure we don't run into problems.
I hope this plan is OK for you.
By the way, I just had an interesting adventure. First I learned from DP that this Iranian "hoax" game is also played in Suriname, of all places, and in the Netherlands. Then I found the original game, which has many names and a lot more spellings. We had at least three unsourced articles for it, two of which were deleted. (I got them undeleted to merge them, but had to speedy one as a copyvio from pagat.com.) And when I read the rules for a version played in Mauritius, I suddenly understood why the dealer in a YouTube video from India dealt one of the cards face-up. It appears that Court piece is one of the more popular games worldwide, although hardly anyone knows this. The internet is full of people asking for information about this game they have played on a train somewhere... HansAdler15:19, 17 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Man you gotta be kidding. You don't have to justify anything (Sedma article is trash - please help !). Been watching your work from afar and I've gotta say it's briliant, as usually. I'm very happy that you are re-cating the games this way. Interesting story you're telling me about Honk and Court piece. As Cotton suggested, dating the migration of a game from one place to another, even if disguised under other names, helps establish a pattern of migration that leads to better understand the development of a certain family of games over time, like All Fours. Keep up the good work Hans ! It's always nice to see how you work. Krenakarore (talk) 15:54, 17 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Unfortunately I don't have Dummett's Game of Tarot. You cited it for the origin of Sedma. Do you have that book at hand? I would love to know more about that so I can turn the various speculations into something sensible. HansAdler16:19, 17 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I have just checked, nonetheless katrurka@hotmail.com - by the way, it looks as good as that Magiar article now. Now Ulti ! (that Hungarian 78. IP made a major contribution to it. It looks high level reading to me ! Thanks for this major work of yours on the field. It really needed ! Krenakarore (talk) 14:00, 18 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, since Preferans only discusses the Russian game and the Austrian game from which it is derived is quite different, I wrote Préférence. Now given that variants of the game are played in Lithuania, Russia, Austria, Hungary, former Yugoslavia and Greece, I am wondering whether it's at all known in Prague. It really should be, but then in Germany it hardly exists outside game anthologies, where nobody seems to be paying any attention to it. I am assuming that you have some Czech anthologies and can even read them – so I would be glad about any hints whether some form of the game is known in your area, and which. HansAdler14:11, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Hans, I still didn't have the chance to thank you for that attachment, so I am still thinking of something... Been having a problem with my right arm (nerves) so I can't touch the mouse or type - one of the reasons I haven't been here for the last 2 weeks - but as for the game Preferance, maybe Přednost (Preference), I need to check that out with the locals (eldest). Every now and then I go visit the National Library (Klementinum). I have found a few books there - I doubt I'll find something in recent books, maybe old ones ! I'll need a couple of days once I have already began pre-production of an album in a studio here in Prague. I also found the book Z Minulosti Karetni hry v Cechach (Prag 1947) by Ivan Honl in an antiquarian in Ostrava and bought it. So it seems I'll find something yes, but it takes a week for the book to get to me. Oh by the way have you read this supplement already http://www.tarotgame.org/tarotSupplement.pdf ? Krenakarore (talk) 22:06, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Great, thanks! I am looking forward to your results, even if they should be negative. Because then it probably means there is nothing to see in that respect. Yes, I have that supplement. But unfortunately the books themselves are neither in the university library nor in the city library here in Vienna. Absolutely ridiculous. If there is any city in the world that should have them, then it's this one. HansAdler22:25, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Please, if you see edit conflict warning, don't just copy&paste over the previous text without looking. Here you messed up the page's references by not paying attention to what you were doing. Thanks, --hydrox (talk) 08:06, 23 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
As I see it, it is perfectly right. Once the info is already there, there's no need to keep the alleged reference in its place either. I don't copy-paste, but refresh the page before saving it. Nonetheless, your advise is undoubtedly constructive. Thanks Krenakarore (talk) 08:15, 23 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I noticed you moved the first image in Paris Opera to the correct position. Can you please provide a link to the policy or guideline that specifies the correct position? Thanks for help. --Robert.Allen (talk) 08:30, 24 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I want to thank you directly for the great amount of improvements you have made recently in the
article i have been working on about Helmut Kollen. It is much appreciated. Berlanton(talk) —Preceding undated comment added 16:16, 19 August 2011 (UTC).[reply]
Oh ho... Another barnstar for this Brazilian expat ! Thank you editor Piotrus for this wonderful compliment. I am honored and gratefully accept it on behalf of your country. I see that you're very active in Wiki. Don't know for sure if I could be of any help on WikiProj. Poland or related projects, but I'll give it a try ok. By the way, thanks for the invitation for the DYK ! Hope to list there as many Polish-related articles as I can. Thank you...:) ! Krenakarore (talk) 14:12, 27 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Congratulations! - I didn't like the page move, while it is on the Main page, and I will go move it afterwards to just (Grieg), as his other works. I tried the pic of the score page where you put it, but brought it up higher, because readers miss it down there + it's a lot of white space. But as you like it, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:38, 1 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you Gerda, you're much welcome here. I guess you have credits for Haugtussa too once you boldly pushed the article ahead, which is what I want. I didn't like the move either. I created the article following a pattern, but I can't prevent other from editing, after all that's what Wikipedia is for. Please, make the move according to what you see fit. As for the pic, the right choice should be: one per heading, once each heading isn't that long. KrenakaroreTK22:03, 1 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I would really like you to nominate it for me once I didn't feel right doing it myself, if you don't mind me asking you for that. Make sure you choose a catchy hook and make the necessary changes as you see fit.....:) ! It's a pleasure to be part of your team. Thanks for the invite Piotrus. KrenakaroreTK01:23, 7 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
It is perfectly wiki-ethical to be nominating one's work for T:TDYK. I and many others do it all the time. The nom will have to be reviewed by others, so it is not a blind "give me praise" process. If you have no experience with this, I'd be happy to answer any technical questions. It is not a terribly difficult process (see instructions a the top - create a subpage, fill it in, add the link to it to the relevant day section of T:TDYK. I prefer not to nominate others' articles due to the "give them the fishing rod instead of a fish" mentality; and I'll also add, frankly, that the time I'd spend nominating the article could be used to review another nomination, and so on :) --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk to me17:23, 7 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Yes I know. I made nominations myself, but the sick thing is this so-called review. People criticize, but don't touch the article if they find something wrong, instead they tell the one in question to fix the problem. The bad thing about Wiki is this sort of competion and subdueing to others that I entirely disagree with. When I find something outta place I fix it myself without criticizing, and if somebody does something which I may consider wrong again I fix the thing myself. I don't tell others to do it in order to subdue them so I can show "who's in command here". Been reading about you, your blocking (good to see ya back), EEML, Nikki you know who, Szeligowski removal from the queue because of "his mother being his first music and piano teacher", people telling me that the article should be reviewed by a native speaker as if I resumed myself to a bunch of userboxes. I come to Wiki for fun and pleasure and reading and knowledge, not to bla bla bla and get angry at whomever (I had a heart attack this last May and I needa stay cool). I edit Polish articles because the story is beautiful, and all that 1300s characters and names and titles and places and faces... I spend hours and hours amazed in reading and going from one link to another till I suddenly find out something like Of my life and my time and his personal view of the Copenhagen bombardment of 1807, and promptly buy the book online. About Gislau and Veslemoi, about Three Years in California and all that Monte Bank 1850s American-Mexican bang-bang border. About the Croatian Adriatic as well, Czech castles and music related articles too, until somebody appears and say: "Hey mama, he (me) took the bigger piece of the pie!" I like when people appear and make changes to the articles I create, expand, enhance, copy-ed whatever and push them ahead! It's great when all those readers outside Wiki find that piece of info that they need so much. It's so good to work together and it feels good when we're part of the team. Prussian Homage (painting) DoneKrenakaroreTK21:19, 7 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Reviews vary; I've had some great ones, I've had ones that were much less helpful. That's the nature of the project; just like some people here are because they want to share their knowledge and built the free database of all knowledge, others have a more insidious purpose. I do believe in fixing things, but I also like to tell people how they can fix things themselves; often upon spotting a new Poland-related article I'll go and leave various suggestions for the author (what needs to be added, how to nom a DYK, etc.). I do a lot of fixing myself, but I often want others to learn how to fix thing so I don't have to clean up. Perhaps I could do it better, but as long as I am the only editor reviewing the new article feed linked above, which can take 2-3 hours a week, I have my hands full. I used to nom articles for T:TDYK, but I decided just to tell the authors to do so, and offer my assistance. It takes less time for me to do so, can involve people more with the project, and allows me to do other things, not too mention that if they learn how to do so, I won't have to spend as much time doing various fixes / noms to their future Poland-related articles that pop out on that feed. So thank you for nominating your work, you spared me some work there (and of course I spend this time writing a reply here, but... :>). On the subject of PH, could you increase the density of references? Now, I think this is ok for for a start-class article, but with more references, this could become a C/B class article. In particular, I'd love to see your sources for individuals on the painting. You may want to check my recent B-class (to be reviewed) article on Constitution of May 3, 1791 (painting), and the talk page discussion. I had lots of fun writing this article... but yes, it took me few hours to come up with the sources. And the job is still not done (it is just no more sources are available online...). --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk to me01:50, 8 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
My edit isn't actually what screwed your page up — in your first edit after mine (here), if you go down to the very last paragraph of your edit (the one that begins "At the west there was Lilla tornet"), you added a reference tag which you didn't close properly — which basically caused the tag to consider everything afterward as part of the "reference". I've closed the tag for you — as you'll note if you look at the page now, there's still something wrong with it that you'll have to fix because you know better than I do what you intended, but at least the tag isn't eating the whole page anymore. Hope that helps a bit. Bearcat (talk) 17:34, 9 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Hi. Thanks for fixing up my attempts to help on the Muiraquitã page, and helping to expand it! I'm moderately proficient in Spanish, which means I can understand jusssst enough written Portuguese to delude myself into trying to read more than a few sentences, but not quite enough to do it in under an hour :). Obrigado! --Miskwito (talk) 22:38, 5 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, and it looks to me like that info is probably taken from the Abrasoffa site, rather than the other way around. It was added to the Portuguese Wikipedia in September by an anon IP; the Wayback Machine indicates that the Abrasoffa site was in its present form long before then (see, for example, this snapshot from December 2010). So for now I hid that content. I'm not actually sure how translations of non-free use material works, although I'm assuming it's still not permitted on Wikipedia? --Miskwito (talk) 23:16, 5 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I haven't been able to be here longer than an hour, so I just did it quickly leaving you with the dirty work (sorry...:) ! Anyway, the info is there and can be re-written any time. No copy-vio if you change the order of the words a bit. Actually you do that a lot better than me and that would give the article a better look. As soon as I can I'll get back here once it's nice to work with good people like you. Again, thanks a million for improving the article ! KrenakaroreTK08:00, 6 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Hello Krenakarore: First I have to compliment you on you excellent contributions to Wikipedia, including the Brucken Fock article. Your work is appreciated. I think the defaultsort for the article needs to be changed; does his name sort under "Fock" or "Brucken Fock"? IMSLP has it sorted under "Brucken Fock".
As for my contribution, I merely compiled a works list from published and manuscript scores. I believe there is a substantial amount of incorrect data there; some of the information seems to be conflicting. I am planning to check other off-line sources to try to clarify come data. Please feel free to make changes that are needed. Přeji pěkný den! Hrdinský〒13:03, 14 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
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Hi. Since an article about a person is in itself a "biography", I believe sections called "Biography" are generally discouraged. "Life and career" is used instead. Best, Beyond My Ken (talk) 03:37, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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Krenakarore (talk | contribs)
(@In ictu oculi → The good about working with people like you is that we don't need to inspect your work to know that it was well done.)
Judging by your editing record, we have no doubts about that which was said Sir. Thank you for taking good care of all those musical articles that we contributed to. At your service, KrenakaroreTK14:47, 5 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Krenakarore! Great job again last week! :) I was wondering if you could help me... I'm working on an article about the 2003 Alcântara VLS accident, however, I'm having a problem with the name of the article. There's an editor that opposes the name "2003 Alcântara VLS accident" and insists the article should be called "VLS-1 V03". If you have the time, could you please leave your input at the article's talk page? Many thanks, my friend! Limongi (talk) 13:07, 9 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hi. In your recent article edits, you've added some links pointing to disambiguation pages. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.
You’ve just received a random act of kindness for everything you have or haven't done for all of us here in Wiki ! Without you none of this would be possible. Oh by the way Toto, I think we're not in Kansas anymore ! 66.87.7.19 (talk) 15:54, 4 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think the section header "Biography" should be applied, since the articles in question are biographies it's no need to state it. Geschichte (talk) 08:00, 16 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
fyi... "priority" hasn't been part of WikiProject Biography for a few years. Please use musician-priority, a&e-priority, sports-priority, etc. Also, only use the standard 26-letter English alphabet for listas and DEFAULTSORT... don't use accents or ligatures. Bgwhite (talk) 17:28, 12 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Acknowledged ! There's no way how to keep up to all these changes through the years though. That seems to be a detail, among a millon others, corrected by BOTs. Odd... no find icon ?! That should help as for references, administrator Bgwhite. KrenakaroreTK17:58, 12 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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No number appears to me here [Stefan Czarniecki], so I couldn't verify 'em. Besides, there's only one primary source there and no other to corroborate the first. You did very good work though, as usual........:) ! Regards, KrenakaroreTK09:07, 9 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Btw, if you know Ukrainian, perhaps you can help with transliteration. Moszna (mošьna ?), the river Cybulnik (??) and Kryłów (uk:Крилів, perhaps the flooded town?) refer to locations on Ukraine, not Poland, but they don't have articles here yet, so the interwikis should be red, or stubbed properly. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here11:22, 9 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Wouldn't it be 'мошонка' ? I tried all this yesterday night, specially 'Cybulnik'. The best would be not to make red links out of these words. Ukrainian, sorry too much for me ! I know no 'Kryliv' river (Крилів річка), so I guess you are right about the town. I wish I could do more ! Have you tried Category:Ukrainian Wikipedians ? KrenakaroreTK12:00, 9 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, and some other times I mistype, forget things, make mistakes unaware of guidelines or certain conventions, link things that I shouldn't, like everyone else, until a good guy like you or Gerda (She's really special, don't you think ?) show up and fix the thing without fuss or anger, because... there's no need to. Thanks a lot.....:) ! KrenakaroreTK11:09, 15 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hi. When you recently edited Wenzel Gährich, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Violinist (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.
Unfortunately I only speak Chinese, I can not read or write it :(, but I can still help you research english written pages. Valoemtalk18:33, 20 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I thank you for your offer Valoem, but I believe it will be very difficult for you to find anything else if you're not leaving in England, where the game was released to the market in the mid 1890s. Nonetheless you can always try........:) ! Thanks. KrenakaroreTK22:30, 20 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for your help with the castles, palaces and manor houses in Latvia. For your information, the Latvian word pils is unfortunately vague. It can translate as castle, palace or manor house depending on context. The word muiža originally meant estate, but now is often used interchangeably with muižas pils for manor house. There has been an effort, not always successful, to use the English word castle in Wikipedia only for Latvian military structures. – Maliepa (talk) 16:38, 13 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I am the one to thank you for taking good care of the articles making them at least presentable to the readers out there. Yes, it would be simpler to you to supervise any translation of mine from the corresponding Latvian article to the English wiki once I can't understand many of the words in Latvian language. Yes I got confused between Zaļā Castle, which I believe should be moved to Zaļā Manor (I'd like you to do it, but I can if you prefer not to), and Zaļenieki Manor. You did it right, although the disambiguation page is another. I am changing that template on Zaļenieki Manor to a Hatnote to redirect the readers to the Zaļā Castle article instead. As I said, a disambiguation page is another thing, like Zala (Disambiguation), which I am now improving. Another thing, I believe you're the kinda guy whose work goes well with mine. I like to better things done by another User, whose action will improve mine. It's like a ball game with both players being part of the same team. Let's talk more, I like your style. KrenakaroreTK16:50, 13 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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Thanks for your message and your confidence with which honored me, but I don't speak fluent English. There are better English-speaking Hungarian Wikipedians than me. I suggest, among others, Fakirbakir, Koertefa, Nmate or Borsoka. I wish you successful work. --Norden1990 (talk) 18:56, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The following is really rough translation. The letter's style is old-fashioned, and I guess that the wording sometimes reflects Germanism. I cannot reflect these features. I hope you can use it as a basis for your work. Borsoka (talk) 21:18, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
"Dear Sir,
Your exaggerated modesty which prevented you from meeting me during my stay in Pest displeases me. Discussing face to face and in more details my genuine praise regarding your compositions would have been more agreeable. Your works point at an indisputable talent, and to a cultured and sober understanding of music. If the occasion arises, I will gladly and thorougly speak with you of everything connected to the subject. Meanwhile, please accept my warmest thanks for your attached letter, and also for your interesting and praisworthy compositions.
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I notice that you re-added the Italics Wikitool on the page Bryllupsdag på Troldhaugen. That doesn't seem necessary, since the page title is also written with the before and after, which gives it both bolding and italics (and it does work as it should, without the {{Italic title}} on the page. What gives?--Spray787 (talk) 18:47, 3 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I notice that you re-added the Italics Wikitool on the page Bryllupsdag på Troldhaugen. That doesn't seem necessary, since the page title is also written with the ''''' before and after, which gives it both bolding and italics (and it does work as it should, without the {{Italicstitle}} on the page). What gives? (note: I first posted this query in your "Discussions" sections, accidentally. I am re-posting it outside of the discussions section, so it won't get lost in there. Sorry for the double-posting snafu.)--Spray787 (talk) 18:54, 3 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Dear Spray787 (beautiful name, reminds me of THX 1138), will you get rid of the Italics Wikitool from all the other articles too ? As far as I know, Italics (Vide Italics) are used for titles such as Bryllupsdag på Troldhaugen. I learned that from User:Gerda (she's great, treat her with flowers. Her contributions are highly appreciated by the whole Wiki comunity and she's highly praised everywhere she goes. She knows a lot about Bach and his compositions, and of course classical music in general too (she has more DYKs on her belt than you can count stars in the sky !) As for the Notes, I tend to separate that from the References section because there's a place for everything and comments do not look fine among references. Vide Chest of Saint Simeon, which I intend to expand one of these days. You see, for me it's not about throwing things onto the article, but to place them in a presentable way to the readers out there. If you're buying a book in a library and suddenly find out that the pictures are scattered all over the pages or that thery're stacking the text, or even hindering the lead, I am sure that you will put the book back to the shelf. I would ! So, I like it neat, following a perfect Layout. Wiki is a fungame... that is, you do it, I better what you did, you do something even better than I did until I come up with a better idea. It's not about correction. Did you notice I didn't touch your contributions to the article ? Thank you very much for helping us all Spray787 (or was it Logan 5 ?). Count me in on the journey don't expect me to stay ! KrenakaroreTK20:56, 3 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hello, Krenakarore. You have new messages at Talk:Mojave. Message added 17:28, 4 September 2012 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.
Hi Widefox, Wiki's been changing drastically lately ! Well, "longer" is just a matter of opinion, and "readability" means: finding faster that which you are looking for. That is, to be inteligent means to solve as many problems in the shortest period of time. But you know, some may think differently ! We can't add infoboxes to biographies of classical composers nowadays because they only display reduntant info. Maybe we should get rid of the "lead" too... Srsrsrsrs ! The best of it all was to have you poke me about the problem. Thanks for the visit, and sorry for the incovenience ! PS: Maybe we should reduce the white space on Napoleon too ! I hate "white spaces" ! KrenakaroreTK19:08, 4 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
In my little DAB gnome capacity, I'm glad I'm ignorant of your above weariness. I was only refering to TOC on right vs left...not sure if you've seen the style WP:MOSDAB (below MOS:DABORDER) ? Widefox; talk11:44, 5 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You're no ignorant Widefox. What I read is "On longer lists, TOC right may be used to move the table of contents to the right hand side of the page. This reduces the amount of white space and (may) improve the readability of the page" (finding faster that which you are looking for). If that's what you mean by my editing on Mojave, you're right. I moved the table of contents to the left because to me (matter of opinion) that page isn't long enough to justify that TOCRIGHT. If half a dozen of three or four users decide that the table of contents should be moved to the right because some white space bothers them enough to create such a fuss about the subject, who am I to say the opposite ? Let them move it to the right. I am a Wikignome because my Wikiname is one of a gnome, and being a gnome, a sloth or dragon, amuses me to the bone. I am here because I like editing, not for controversial matters. Have fun man, that TOC is where you left it ! KrenakaroreTK13:49, 5 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
sure - if I've read it right this isn't a matter of subjectivity, section headings are only on longer lists anyhow, so DABs never have left TOCs per guide (if you see any just tell me!). Its always interesting to hear other editors viewpoints, regards Widefox; talk08:53, 6 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Widefox, "we" write the guideline, and "we" change it. Correction... "TOC right (may be) used" different from "must be used". But anyway... up or down, right or left... does it really matter ? As you can see I don't talk much, which means I archive my talk page once a year. My viewpoint ? Not the proper place I know, but some things should be voted, democratically, because some things don't reflect the majority of the community. It's just a matter of three or four as I said. Another thing would be... have you noticed that this talk page is aligned ? It would be a Major improvement for Wikipedia if all articles were displayed in a orderly fashion, with every line right aligned. It would be very easy to insert this paremeter in the program. When I read from Jimbo that now the focus should be the improvement of the articles, not quantity you know, but quality... that's when I began to see through. The articles are so poorly presented, written, that the project isn't reliable to itself (that's one of the pillars here you know) ! People come and go and so change things that were, which are not anymore... but will come to be again tomorrow...nonesense. You've been here longer than me. Are you tired ? Does it seem to you that much of what you've done has been undone ? I used to take thing seriously man, but than I realised that I am not being paid for what I do, so I should have more fun at least. Like this I skipped to other areas such as translations, history, geography... literary things you know, specially those areas or articles where people don't wish to be or write about... a minuscle manor house in Latvia or a historical passage about French fishing boats off the coast of Brazil in 1961. About the Chest of Saint Simeon or Moszkowski's personal life. For me the thing is: I better what you do, then you join me and better my improvement until I come up with a better idea. People here don't know how to treat themselves. It's just: Don't be stupid ! Or, Can't you read ? Gonna raise an RFC against you ! Or even: It's a copy, verbatim (srsrsrsrsr !). Some even become "Sitting Bulls" on top of some articles ! So if you visit their Contributions, you will then learn the difference between "reds" and "greens" ! As for me, I intent to keep my talk page as a example of understanding and agreement. Regards, KrenakaroreTK20:03, 6 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I took your advice - "may" now reads "should". In my opinion, TOC right always helps reading speed due to scanning down the left for the article you need (instead of jumping directly to it). I put a link to this discussion here -> Wikipedia talk:Manual_of_Style/Disambiguation_pages. Just like the speed/simplicity of google hits (which unfortunately have no table of contents), marginal gains are important. Widefox; talk07:25, 7 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Still, a matter of half a dozen of three or four. You're right... in your opinion ! Thanks for the link, you're a nice guy. Today 46th anniversary of Star Trek first episode broadcasting... Uhhhuuu ! KrenakaroreTK21:34, 8 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Rotštejn Castle, you added links pointing to the disambiguation pages Chatelaine and Charles IV (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.
That is really a stimulus for me to continue working, sharing and learning from people like you, in the blink of an eye. Once again... Thanks :) ! KrenakaroreTK14:05, 23 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, I'm Alpedio. Krenakarore, thanks for creating Alonso de Cáceres! I've just tagged the page, using our page curation tools, as having some issues to fix. This page needs to be more factually based. You may want to research the person more, and add more info. The article is a stub, this means that it needs to be expanded. Good luck!
The tags can be removed by you or another editor once the issues they mention are addressed. If you have questions, you can leave a comment on my talk page. Or, for more editing help, talk to the volunteers at the Teahouse. —Preceding undated comment added 00:58, 14 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Hello Krenakarore. You created so many excellent and valid articles ... I don't think your creations need to be checked by others. May I change your user rights to Autopatrolled, just to reduce the work load of New Page Patrollers? Vejvančický (talk / contribs) 13:20, 28 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Ha ha, you know me. I have never thought about that before, but that's a smart offer I couldn't refuse. Please do it and thank you once more...:) ! KrenakaroreTK14:04, 28 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Hello, you may have participated in a prior informal discussion on changing the title of 2013 Russian meteor event. This discussion has been closed in favor of a formal Requested Move. You are invited to comment on the formal discussion here. Thank you. μηδείς (talk) 19:03, 3 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oh... yes, I see you better now. That's why Bach and all the great work you have done. I thank you for that too precious...:) ! KrenakaroreTK16:49, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Estoy aprendiendo a editar en wikipedia, así que de antemano agradezco cualquier ayuda. En el caso de Carara National Park, del cual hay mucha demanda de información, le copié algunas de las imágenes que tiene el mismo artículo en español. Ya leí el artículo sugerido (WP:IG). Gracias. Cualquier mejora, sugerencia o corrección será bienvenida. Saludos Axxis10 (talk) 01:27, 23 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I wouldn't have as much time as I used to, but I'd be glad to help you in any way I can... maybe I could talk a few others into joying us after you begin expanding the article. Tell me what you need. Thanks for calling...:) ! KrenakaroreTK18:31, 24 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I redid the section about the pianistic career, so that it flows more and the sections are more specific. I still think I will add more information to some of these sections. I think the sandbox is great. Will you make a separate article with that list or do you plan to add it to his article? BoguSlav22:43, 3 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Great !! Now let's give others a try. I'm sure they'll change a few things here and there, improving the flow, which I think is necessary. Besides, a GA is achieved through the magic of other users, once they see things we can't properly see now. Vide Chris... you did better...:) ! As for the list, yes, I can hardly wait to create it, apart from this article of course ! We'll put a link under Selected works later. If you know any other composition missing there, please do it. I want that doctoral thesis very badly ! I don't know if the post office here accepts money order to the States, but I'll see that tomorrow. KrenakaroreTK23:14, 3 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Never mind, I'm a freak ! Man... you won't believe me... I went to the National Library here in Prague for a 300-page book on Kosenko's life. Memories and letters (yes, there are even letters that he wrote to other people. It's all in your language, but as my wife is Czech and she can read a bit of Russian, we spent some time reading parts of the book (photos from Kosenko's step-daughters, his brothers and Maria, Gaidai, etc.) His whole life and a bit more than this is all in this book. I will keep it for a whole month. I am buying another scanner tomorrow (it shoulda been today) and I'll scan it for you to read. You talked me into expanding Kosenko article to GA... now we'll really take it to FA. I said FA, not LA :) ! I am about to change his picture in his article... take a look in a few moments because I have just received Tetyana Boretska's dissertation (vide you tube), who's been of great help to me as for Kosenko's vocal compositions, with a nice photo of Kosenko. I will chat with her tomorrow as for Op. 7, 20 and 24. There are a few things I would like to ask you, for instance: "Nich i Mlysta Khurtovyna", which is a transliteration of one of Kosenko's composition. What does it mean ? KrenakaroreTK20:38, 9 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Wow. You surprised with the amount of research you are doing! Good thing you are finding so much resources about him because they are not available where I live. Anyways, "Nich" = night, "mlysta" = adjective of "mla" (which means "fog, haze, etc", and "Khrestovyna" is a "snowstorm". So I think I would translate it "Night and the Foggy Snowstorm." BoguSlav20:54, 9 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
There's more to come from Jiulliard School. I have acquired Juliana Osinchuk's 1981 doctoral thesis today ! I am in contact with three other musicians in US, including Jeffrey Solow and Natalya Shkoda (Let's see if she can help with his compositions. I want to acquire her doctoral thesis too) ! Besides, I thank you for the links to the scores, additions to the wikitable in my sandbox and translations - Yes, I need you man... don't go away, help me there ! KrenakaroreTK21:07, 9 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Hey. I have several concerns about the article at the moment. I think that it would be helpful to include the years of each period of Kosenko's life in the heading, like it's done in the Gustav Mahler article.
Also, I think the "Selected works" section is a problem. First of all, what is the criteria to include that particular piece into the piece? Secondly, there are no citations there. I think we should either delete that section or merge it into the "Musical legacy" section, and to just title that section "Music". Later, when the list is done, then you can link it into that section. Otherwise, I think this section does not have much justification to be there. BoguSlav20:47, 23 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Great, that's a very good idea. Kosenko's now on Peer Review and doing good. More concerned we should be with some issues that need to be solved such as the Lead section, which still needs expansion. If you notice, those bugs addressed did have to be fixed. Tim Riley mentioned that there's rather too much in the "Influences and style" section copied from "Early life and education", and that relates to Prose, which will improve as we progress. The selected works section that you mention is of our least concern now, but then again your idea is very good. We could describe some of those compositions (specially Op. 19 and the 24 Children’s Pieces, Op. 25) in the musical legacy section and make it longer. Go for it, I'll follow you !
Now, I believe you've got the book (check your email). Did you check my sandbox ? I need those translations for the list. I can't go on without your help. Come on, have fun... :) ! KrenakaroreTK22:04, 23 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Received your message regarding a copy-edit and review of the Kosenko article as you prepare to bring it to GA status. As a pianist myself, I'm rather familiar with Kosenko's life and work, so I'll be glad to do so. It's a holiday here in the States, so I will get a chance to look at it this weekend (6-7 July). ColonelHenry (talk) 23:58, 3 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Krenakarore, I haven't forgotten about your request, it has been a rather hectic few weeks, with family and work concerns, and my limited wiki time swallowed by a featured list candidate, another article slated for WP:TFA on 2 August, two AFDs, and a few articles that I did take the time to edit kept me from remembering to attend to my promised review. I hope to find some time over the next few days to give you a few pointers, and do a copyedit. ColonelHenry (talk) 03:09, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
My dearest... since long I have learned that "sense of humor is part of the learning process." That is, if I am not having fun with whatever I am doing, then I am not learning anything at all ! So, the good thing about you is that you are always having fun...:) ! I am right in the middle of Kosenko's life and his compositions in my sandbox. Let us work together one of these days... architecture ! KrenakaroreTK11:33, 7 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
What do you need translated...if it's into English from Polish, I know enough Polish to pick up blonde-haired Polish girls in the US on summer work visas. ColonelHenry (talk) 03:12, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Hahahaha... if that's so, you're playing on my side of the court ! I thank you Colonel, but this polish thing is just a transliteration of Ukrainian, not properly Polish. They're titles of Kosenko's compositions, which I hope Boguslav will help me translate. I need to finish my "latest contribution to the cause", in my sandbox. Better look over Viktor Kosenko Colonel. I've found a 300-page book about his life and those 25.000 bytes will reach 250.000 very soon ! Maybe you could call somebody else in so you both work together and make things even more pleasant..:) ! Friendly, KrenakaroreTK09:09, 18 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, I started translating them, but most of the titles are actually merely Polish transliterations of Ukrainian and Russian words rather than translations. I did a couple of them, but you should rather find someone with knowledge of Ukrainian, he or she should do just fine with the few Polish words here and there. I could do those translations by hand, but it would take ages. //Halibutt00:56, 17 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Three songs for voice and piano
A delicate twilight tosses (?) (Russian: реет сумрак нежный)
The years race on
Silence, night, one can hear a loud rattle, poems by V. Molchanov
Hey, let's fight (or beat the drums, depends on the context) - song for voice and piano
Smyczka
(song for voice and piano), poems by V. Greblov
Young tractor drivers, song for voice and piano, poems by I. Sklar
Hey, thanks for the input! I'll definitely throw something in there soon, and throw the ball back to you ;) - I'll just finish another little project I've conceived first :) All the best, Yakikaki (talk) 15:37, 17 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Hey, I just got my hands on a few books on another topic that interests me, and I have to return them quite soon, so for a while I'll prioritise that - but then..! Also, thanks for your help with the Ghost Town thingy. You're a really helpful soul! Cheers! Yakikaki (talk) 17:49, 21 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
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* ''Cristoforo Colombo (Carnicer)|Cristoforo Colombo]]'' (1829), Opera
HI there, thanks for stopping by my talkpage and also for noticing the article, Cristóbal Oudrid. I don't understand you're question as to why did I work on it, but the short answer is that I've worked on 1000s of articles, including this one. Before my edits, it was created and edited by two of my editing teammates, so I was just one more person jumping in to improve it. Cheers, Rosiestep (talk) 21:08, 18 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
You don't look like the kind of user interested in FA's though (me either), but what if Oudrid was turned into something no other website besides Wikipedia has ? Would you care to take it to the front page with me and the others dear ? (Hey, I've read your essays and seen your DYK's. You're a mother - Si kumbuka, I'm not a father!)
Just wondering why this article in particular interests you? You'll also have to let me know what your reference to Lt. Uhura is about... I'm a huge Star Trek fan, so it's cool. Cheers, Rosiestep (talk) 15:18, 19 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Quite an interesting reply of yours my dear, though you still haven't answered my question (read my reply to Dr. Blofeld). You know, as for Uhura (I simply love her and all the others around her of course - she's a queen). That sentence is in Swahili, and comes from the episode The Changeling in which Nomad (the machine) erases her memory. She's then taken to be re-educated from the scratch, and as she progresses through her "mistakes" (here she says: Si kumbuka, which means "I don't remember", though I first thought the meaning was something like "What a drag")... well, I guess you've got the picture... anyway, after 17 years I am not a father... That's why I said that, as if saying: "What a drag"... :) !
Bonkers and I started the article because it was a red link in Badajoz, an article which Rosie, Nvvchar and I were promoting to GA. Rosie did most of the translation, nothing sinister...♦ Dr. Blofeld14:29, 19 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Dr. Blofeld, what an honor to welcome you here today ! Please, forgive my freakness, but as you see I edit even "the tail of the flea behind the dog's ear" ! Absolutely nothing sinister here, as I'm sure you've noticed by my reply to Rosie (Whole Lotta Rosie, if she allows me). You have just answered my question Dr. I have a present for you...:) ! Maybe we can work together after all (have you read my suggestion to Rosie ?). You know, one hand shakes the other... ! KrenakaroreTK15:49, 19 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, the resemblance is astonishing... one of my favorite actors, together with Yul Brinner of course. Actually, I'm a bit more into Viktor Kosenko, to whom I shoulda already returned once I needa finish what I started, but who knows... a gnome is a gnome ! Well, tomorrow is yesterday, at 6 pm, eastern time... :) ! Congrats Dr. and please to meet you. KrenakaroreTK16:50, 19 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Alexandre (if I may), you'll find me to be more of a Cracklin' Rosie than a Whole Lotta Rosie, but a rose by any other name... Moving on, yes, I'd be interested in improving the article but, without doing a lot of research, I'm not sure how much ref material is available in en language. What are your thoughts? Rosiestep (talk) 02:50, 20 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
You're the first to call me by my name, and that brings you even closer to me. Well, Diamond or Young... Roses are red after all ! As for the article dear, we'll do the following: You list it for DYK, get the credit, and share it with me, although I don't need another serves-me-for-nothing little star. You and Dr. Blofeld take care of the Lead and prose of the text. A better description of the songs contained in his zarzuelas would also come in handy, once that would expand this section a bit. I know where to find them. I'll drop them on your talk page. I'll contact a User in Madrid to help me find something on Oudrid between 1853 and 1860, which is what is missing (I got Spanish). I'll then list it for Peer Review, and you, Dr. Blofeld, and I work on it for three days straight. After that, Dr. Blofeld nominates it for FA, the rest is done - I guess you're in for a big "Holy cow" tonight (!)... More than best, your friend, KrenakaroreTK09:11, 20 August 2013 (UTC) ... :) ![reply]
The Brazilian behind the Spaniard behind the Zarzuela. A Wikipedia article in 3 acts.
Interesting, very interesting; the swan behind the gnome. I will try to return to the article today or tomorrow as time permits. Also, just curious, did you work on the article in a sandbox? Rosiestep (talk) 03:02, 21 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oh no my dear... my sandbox is presently occupied by Viktor Kosenko's compositions, which I've been compiling the way I did to Oudrid's. I needa return to it urgently. A Wikipedian in Kiev is helping me with the titles. It's not just translating, but understanding the story behind them too, you know. I've kept her waiting for two weeks now so I could finish Oudrid's, one of the reasons I need your help and Dr. Blofeld's as well, so don't wait too long dear... come up with an unforgettable hook and list it for DYK right away. The article is what it is because of you. I'll come up with a ALT2 or 3 as soon as I see it there.
Now as for your question... I kept previewing and previewing my changes to the article over and over and over again (hahahaha), but yes I admit having used my Word Processor to save the work and not lose anything ! I re-ordered the Lead before saving the article, so it looks a lot better now. Thanks for improving it, leaving Teatro del Príncipe for me to create the article (very astute from your part!). It's just a game between us dear, no big deal. I ping the ball, and you pong it back... I ping the ball, and you pong it back...
Oh yes, the picture you sent me... that's Julia Fons interpreting Lota and Antonio González as El Casto José in the biblical zarzuela La Corte del Faraón by Guillermo Perrín and Miguel de Palacios, with music by Vicente Lleó. It premiered at Teatro Eslava, in Madrid, on 21 January 1910. The tenor Gonzáles died shortly after, having Fons survived him for 63 years. Now... I'm off to bed. I've slept for 15 hours straight and I'm still falling asleep...:) ! KrenakaroreTK15:20, 21 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The article was nominated at DYK days ago by Nvvchar. It's in the August 9th section. I've added your name to the credits. Note, we don't need to make reference style changes for dyk noms, but if this article is to move forward to GAN, we'll probably need to incorporate Harv Ref citation style. Rosiestep (talk) 03:02, 22 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
You mean, such as Banksia violacea, featured on the Main Page on August 21, 2013 ? Hmmmmmm... I think we'll list it for Peer Review first so we see better what is missing. I for one, would nominate it for FA right on the face, once there'll be very little chance of any improvement to it after GAN, a status it would lose anyway. More important is the prose of the article, divided into four distinct blocks (text, list, notes and references). As I said to Dr. Blofeld, there is no website besides Wikipedia with a more concise and up-to-date information on Oudrid's compositions, not even at Biblioteca Nacional de España. But still, life isn't perfect. Yesterday, I noticed that Juan Guillén Buzarán was also a poet, but as theatre director I am still waiting to see ! Just because websites or books by renowned authors say something, we should not believe in them. I saw a lot of mistakes as for dates, names, premieres, even in Draayer or Barbieri's ! You see, Oudrid did not write Las Sacerdotisas del Sol o Los Españoles en el Otro Mundo. That's just a fictitious work inside El Ensayo de una Ópera, although many websites list it as his. Believe me, I did research as deep as I have never been. One more reason to call a Spanish Wikipedian in, preferably one from Madrid, so we can expand the text and improve the prose a bit more....:) !
Thanks for the news about this DYK. It's always good to have "a photo" of a wonderful moment in our life so that we can remember the gold old friends we have. KrenakaroreTK09:19, 22 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
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Agreed, though I couldn't control my excitement once the text is very good written, with long passages describing the structure of the place. I like articles written by mature users as they are really amusing. I will continue (hahaha) writing ... there are very interesting things such as this Cruz de Calatrava, which makes me stop translating to read other good articles on the Spanish, Portuguese and other Wikipedias. Thanks for "yanking the rope" (ear) ! KrenakaroreTK19:53, 25 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
First you answer me a question: you want to create teatro romántico ? Yes, I will try to find a description of the theat"er" (in proper English now) tomorrow (I'm watching Prometheus ... Corral de comedias, with excepts being transferred from Corral de comedias de Almagro, will need to be re-checked for prose. This last article is better than the first one. Please, make it neat Rosie ! Yes, I know... talk-page yes. KrenakaroreTK22:09, 25 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
As "teatro romántico" is mentioned in es:Corral de Comedias de Alcalá, I searched for it on the es wiki and found es:Teatro romántico en España while google search turned up this. If it's not worth an article on the en wiki, or if it's just not an actual style/genre, just delink it, no worries. As for theatre/theater, per this the former spelling seems to be the internationally accepted one while the latter is limited to the US; either way is cool with me. Don't understand your reference to neat? Rosiestep (talk) 23:33, 25 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Yes I saw it, a definition only. I looked over some of your DYKs and noticed a red link in each one of them. Please, tell me, you like red color, or you prefer blue...:) ? It's ok, I can everything here, as long as it is with a positive thought in mind. As for "tre" or "ter" I know well the difference between curb and kerb. I write "tre" if dealing with articles related to Europe, otherwise I prefer "ter". Neat... hmmmm... how to define neat here... You are seaming your white trousers with a black string (certainly not a neat thing to do. Use a white one). I am symmetric, orderly... I don't scatter pics around the article or "list" them on the right side, I place them accordingly, fashionably, a neat thing to do. In the Ext. Links section I don't do things like [9], but I do things like An image of Abbaye Maillezais Lejour on Vendee Touristique official website. You are standing at a newsstand overlooking a magazine when you find out that the sentences have missing letters and the paragraphs are not aligned. Would you buy it...:) ? Neat... hmmmm... you open a drawer in search of socks, but you find shirts, ties, and blouses in it. Would you leave them there...:) ? I am here because I like reading, listening to Moritz Moszkowski as I edit, I care for art, paintings and books, the relationship between Agnes Street-Klindworth and Liszt, and dreams, and stories, Urracá, I collect highly detailed wooden-carved playing card boxes, and feel intrigued by Reindorff's 10, 20, 50 Krooni 1929-37 banknotes. I don't do things for me here, but for a reason, not a word, but a whole sentence, a whole paragraph. I don't spend time nominating articles to GA or FA because they take time to perfect. I like editing articles which are forgotten, uninteresting to many. Once I read a conversation between a "Nikkiwho" and another user who said to her: "Your sappient eyes", as if bowing, saying: This user (me) only has two DYKs (hahahaha), as if having 1000 would make me unsuspected of whatever... One other questioned me: How can this composer be more important than Wagner, Meyerbeer, Bach... and 12 others, in a long list of mockery. I said: Look, the article is the sum of many contributions, not only mine. When I leave a message on somebody else's "door" to be ignored... and see others acting like Marshalls in the old west hunting copyright infringements in an article since long copy-edited by a hundred other users... to be speedily deleted. I am here to give, not to get baby, to learn, not to be...:) ! Wikipedia needs me, I don't need it. KrenakaroreTK00:32, 26 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It's a beautiful article Nvv, pretty much my layout style... hmmmm neat...:) ! The number 653 just came up to mind with no apparent reason. I guess it is a number hidden among many others, nonetheless every number is important as you have showed me now... :) ! Best regards my dear... KrenakaroreTK07:33, 26 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It's not only referencing, but checking that info which is "a bit scrambled" right now. I told Rosie that the Spanish Wikipedian described the place himself, so that it may be a little bit hard to find an author or website which might support his description. I am with a terrible sore throat at the moment, but you can list it at DYK yes. I'll see that tomorrow afternoon when I get a little better. KrenakaroreTK18:45, 27 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
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Mio carissimo Basilico, it wasn't ugly, it was without |left| only. The comment in question resumes itself in two parts here. First, "Se" implies that you may return anytime, once nobody can prevent you from doing whatever. Second, "per favore" implies I was polite enough to ask you to keep it clean (#3). You're much welcome, KrenakaroreTK14:38, 28 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
On 30 August 2013, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Cristóbal Oudrid, which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that Cristóbal Oudrid(pictured), founding father of Spanish musical nationalism, was known for his "many contributions to the zarzuela genre"? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Cristóbal Oudrid. You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check) and it will be added to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.
Busy no, sick yes... sore throat. Need to go back to Kosenko's compositions, peer review Oudrid next week and place that frame back in place once more, which I know will bring me a lotta trouble. Will see to it soon, yes !
That was such a nice note from you. Thank you. Hope you get to have some fun in Milan while you're there on work. Send me a postcard? LOL --Rosiestep (talk) 03:47, 5 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oh dear, you've caught me red-handed... Been flying 'tween Prague and Milan where I've been recording ! Unfortunately, I only have time for a rough translation and layout, but promise to join you when this story is over. Please, give me some time to make things straight... :) !
No problem, considering how long I took to start I think you're more than excused - I'm the one who should be apologising! Cheers for now, Yakikaki (talk) 17:28, 16 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Hi! I only now saw that you very long ago wrote to me in my Sandbox, I'm sorry for this very late answer! Thank you for your kind words, and I'd certainly like to work with you again. And a very merry Christmas to you, all the while! By the way, I did make a start on Saint Catherine's Monastery, Tallinn. Ciao for now, Yakikaki (talk) 10:34, 21 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
That is great news. Nice to see that we have new start. Merry Xmas to you too and see that we may work together one day. Best from South America KrenakaroreTK
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Hello there. I saw your edit in Mǎ diào wikipedia section. There is something I want to ask. These rules evolved over time to a new set of rules allowing a player to take the cards discarded by the previous player to improve his hand. Why would the previous player discard his cards. Is it like mahjong or conquian where you discard and take new cards from the stock pile to find the necessary card to complete your hand? — Preceding unsigned comment added by ShanghaiWu (talk • contribs) 04:36, 14 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I'm glad you asked. As you see, it was a trick-taking game before a new set of rules led one player to keep the cards discarded by the others, having thus the chance to form combinations. So it became a rummy game. This article (translated from the French) is very important because it explains how the game Khanhoo (the very reason that brought me to Wikipedia) was created. I spent 6 years looking for this information, asking people living in Shanghai and other parts in China. Still there are some things I need to find in order to tie up the whole story. KrenakaroreTK11:18, 14 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I see, but do you know how to play Mǎ diào (not the trick-taking one) after the evolution of rule? The one where it becomes like rummy (rummy is under matching card game type category right?). I would like to know if it involves discarding your own card and take a new card from the remaining 20 cards that form the stock. Each player took 10 cards and the ramaining 20 cards were placed in the center of the table to form the stock. Oh, I think there might be spelling error there. It's 'remaining' not ramaining right?
1691-1722 is a very important date for khanhoo and mahjong. It's where Mǎ diào evolved from a trick-taking card game into a matching-card game, which give birth to mahjong. In my case, I'm interested in Mǎ diào because of it's relation to mahjong.— Preceding unsigned comment added by ShanghaiWu (talk • contribs) 13:32, 14 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Yes I know how to play Mǎ diào, I am a card game researcher. I also know there's another set of rules that is not listed here. The game may also be played by two or three players. You should always have 10 cards in your hand and try to form a winning hand by taking a card from the stock or from the discard pile, add it to your hand and discard another so that the next player may have the same chance as you. Here is an excerpt from a conversation in a forum about mahjong:
“
Mo He Pai is a card game using the paper cards to play with. It has the following characteristics: It is played by 4 players. It has 60 cards carrying the following patterns:
Wen Qian [spare coin] titled 1 through 9 with 2 cards each
Suo Zi [string] titled 1 through 9 with 2 cards each
Wan Guan [10-thousand money note] titled 1 through 9 with 2 cards each
"Heads" in 3 colours or patterns (similar to mahjong's Red, Green and White), 2 cards each.
To start a game, each player gets 10 cards, then and in turn, each player draws and discards a card. Cards are to be formed in 3 consecutive numbers as a "set". Whoever forms 3 sets and a pair in a hand may declare HE (sounds "hu") [Chinese Pinyin, means win].
The game is then further evolved to PENG HE PAI. Similar to Mo He Pai, but with the following changes:
The number of cards is doubled (now 120 cards)
The "set" can now be in the forms of KAN (3 consecutive numbers in same pattern), PENG (3 identical pieces) and GANG (4 identical pieces).
Mo He Pai was said to exist in or around late Ming Dynasty (1368-1644) or early Qing Dynasty (1644-1912). However, it lacks sources to support the dates of the games being described. Peng He Pai ("peng hu pai") was mentioned in an article "Muzhu Xianhua" written by Jin Xueshi before 1783. Accordingly, Peng He Pai should have existed before 1783. I also found that Mo He Pai is believed to have existed around mid-17th century, some 200 years before the earliest recorded mahjong game.
”
Judging by your Wikiname I assume you may be in Shanghai. It would be nice if you could find 'references' to substantiate the Mǎ diào article section 'Evolution of the game' and the Khanhoo article section 'Evolution'. That should be in Chinese language, can you do that ? It seems to me you might know something that I don't about the game. Now you tell me. KrenakaroreTK17:31, 14 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
First of all, THANKS a lot for the information. It was really helpful. At this point, I guess it is safe to say mahjong gameplay originated around late Ming, or early, if not mid Qing era. Unfortunately though, I'm not from Shanghai. I'm actually overseas Chinese of Wu ancestry. If you check information on Wu people, you will notice Wu people live in Zhejiang and Shanghai, hence the name ShanghaiWu. To be honest, I doubt my knowledge is as good as yours. It's a shame that you help me a lot, but I couldn't do anything in return. However, I will continue discussing with you in case I find any new information. Also, would you like to tell me what other information on mahjong or Mǎ diào you would like to know?
One more thing. Is Mo He Pai and Peng He Pai and Mǎ diào the same? Do Mohu and Penghu derive from Mǎ diào? What's the relation between Mǎ diào, Mohu and Penghu? — Preceding unsigned comment added by ShanghaiWu (talk • contribs) 18:19, 14 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, maybe you could tell me something about 'Che Zhang', one of the four derivative games of Mǎ diào (before Mǎ diào, only T'ienkeu). Mǎ diào, which has four derivatives: Dohu (斗虎), also known as Kanhu (看虎), Che Zhang (扯张), Mo He Pai (默和牌) (Mohu) and Peng He Pai (碰和牌) (Penghu), is different from all the other games once each has its own set of rules. KrenakaroreTK01:22, 15 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Not familiar with 'Che Zhang'. So far I only know it has 30 cards, 2-5 players and the cards have similarity to Mǎ diào. Will inform you if I manage to find more detail about it. So the 'discard and draw' gameplay and rules already existed during Emperor Kangxi reign around 1691-1722, after Kangxi made the ban in 1691. Does Penghu have both card game and domino?
'It is briefly described in Jin Xueshi's "Muzhu xianhua" ("Idle talk of a swineherd"), written in 1783. "Muzhu xianhua" is an interesting book about... old games. Jin speaks of games played with cards (zhipai), describing the games "mohu" and "penghu", then of games played with dominoes (gupai), listing "youhu" (with 32 dominoes), "penghu" (with 105 dominoes), "tianjiu" (with 32 dominoes), then again of games played with cards but this time with four suits, like 'madiao'.'
According to the above quote, Jin speaks of games played with cards (zhipai), describing the games of "mohu" and "penghu" and another "Penghu", but with dominoes. Or did I misinterpret something? Is the game Tien Gow supposed to be the oldest trick-taking game except it is played with domino instead of cards? Finally, does these card games in China appeared earlier and influenced Conquian, especially in terms of gameplay and rules? — Preceding unsigned comment added by ShanghaiWu (talk • contribs) 02:43, 15 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Good, thanks for the 'Che Zang' game structure. Yes, matching games existed around 1691. Yes, Penghu is not only played with cards, but also dominos. Most Chinese card games of today evolved from domino games. Tien Gow isn't the oldest trick-taking game in Chinese domino literature. I don't know much about dominos, actually I know nothing. Card games don't influence other card games, people devise rules and that modifies the game. Games migrate from one place to another and consequently people inadvertently play them in different ways simply because when the rules are explained they are slightly modified. If I tell you a tale, in about a month it will sound completely different because when it is retold, it is then modified. As for Conquian, there seems to be no 'Kon Khin' card game. The word is just phonetically related to 'Con Quién' (Spanish) and 'Coon Can' (English). The game was brought to Spain (there were many Spanish colonies, and Portuguese too, in Southeast Asia at the time) by sailors. 'Conquian' was introduced in the US by Chinese immigrants who worked at the construction of railways in the first half of the 19th century and after, during the homestead push to the west. The game crossed the Mexican border and was brought back by the Mexicans themselves (see Monte Bank), who also worked in the Southern Pacific railroad expansion during and after the American Civil War. KrenakaroreTK07:58, 15 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. I was actually confuse why the Mǎ diào evolution of rules section in the wikipedia mentions about allowing a player to take a card discarded (and why the other player would discard his card in the first place?) by another player, but didn't mention about 'discard and draw'. I guess the gameplay and rules are not fully explained by whoever create that wikipedia section. By the way, may I ask for your source on where you learned the gameplay and rule of Mǎ diào when it evolved due to its ban by Emperor Kangxi in 1691? Is it Muzhu Xianhua, written by Jin Xueshi, or some other source? — Preceding unsigned comment added by ShanghaiWu (talk • contribs) 08:49, 15 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The article is based on the translation of the corresponding article in the French Wikipedia, as it is stated there (vide attribution). It is written there: "allowing a player to take the cards discarded by the previous player", therefore it evolved into a draw-and-discard card game. My source comes from all over the internet once I can't read Chinese. Do you know any other set of rules for Mǎ diào ? KrenakaroreTK13:59, 15 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
No. I'm having difficulty to find the gameplay and rules of 'Che Zhang' but will keep on searching for it. Did the French Wikipedia mention 'therefore it evolved into a draw-and-discard card game' or the sentence "allowing a player to take the cards discarded by the previous player", which pretty much suggests it evolve into a "draw-and-discard card game". Where does the French wikipedia get its citation? Is it from an internet link or from a book? Maybe if we can find the source for the French wikipedia, we can get all the information we need?— Preceding unsigned comment added by ShanghaiWu (talk • contribs) 14:05, 15 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The sentence reads: "allowing a player to take the cards discarded by the previous player", which we understand as a 'draw-and-discard' (we're talking rummy) card game, easily. No reference, therefore you are now entitled to finding this citation for the sentence by looking up 'Mǎ diào' all over the net. What we need are the listing of the rules. Forget the French Wiki, let's focus on the English one. See ya KrenakaroreTK15:00, 15 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, I see. I thought the reference came from Irving L. Finkel, Colin MacKenzie (2004). Asian games: the art of contest, as mentioned in the English Mǎ diào Wiki referencing. Ok, will inform you if I discover a new thing. Were you the one who created or edit the Mǎ diào evolution of the rules section by translating it from the French Wiki? You know how to speak French? — Preceding unsigned comment added by ShanghaiWu (talk • contribs) 15:15, 15 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I just went to the French Wikipedia Mǎ diào using google translate and found out that Bibliography they were using is The Late Ming Game of Ma Diao in The Playing-Card (Volume XXIX, Number 3), Andrew Lo. We NEED this reference by Andrew Lo. On the external link of the French wikipedia Ma Diao,I found this English link. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ShanghaiWu (talk • contribs) 15:15, 15 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Andrew Lo is already listed in the Bibliography section of the Mǎ diào article, and Finkel & MacKenzie's Asian games: the art of contest has already been used as reference in the same article. Yes, you can read the 'View history' of both articles (Khanhoo and Mǎ diào). KrenakaroreTK16:27, 15 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, I was thinking that perhaps someone translated Andrew Lo references into French wiki and then back into English and put it into English wiki Ma Diao. So the citation might come from Andrew Lo or Irving L. Finkel, Colin MacKenzie (2004). Asian games: The art of contest? The only way to clarify it is if we both had the references which, unfortunately, I can't find a soft copy online. Or, they both just got it from here: History and Evolution of Mahjong.
This link says Conquian was played in the middle of the 18th century (1701-1800). "Conquian was played in Mexico during the middle of the 18th century and many people believe that the game can be traced back to Spain on account of the word “Conquian” being of Spanish origin. In Spanish, the word “Conquian” means “for whom.”" Rummy History. However, most other sources I said it's in 1800s in Mexico HISTORY OF RUMMY.
"To start a game, each player gets 10 cards, then and in turn, each player draws and discards a card. Cards are to be formed in 3 consecutive numbers as a "set". Whoever forms 3 sets and a pair in a hand may declare HE (sounds "hu") [Chinese Pinyin, means win]." I just reread this again. Each player have 10 cards but since the winning hand is a pair and 3 sets with each set contain 3 consecutive numbers, doesn't that mean there will be 11 cards? Here's a book talking about mahjong origin The Origin of Mahjong. No, still no info on Che Zhang yet.
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är det vinter... - Google Art Project.jpg|thumb|left|220px|Illustrated poem about trees in winter (early 1900s, Nationalmuseum Stockholm.]]
Regarding Che Zhang, is it the same as Che Liu Zhang and Che San Zhang mentioned here by Thierry Depaulis? In his "Xu Yezi Pu" he gives the rules of Kan Hu, Dou Hu, a multiple-trick game (not to be confused with the latter Kan Hu = Kanhoo), Che Liu Zhang and Che San Zhang, both draw games (and also Tian Jiu = Tien Gow, played with dominoes). However, the 30 cards are taken from a 40-card pack discarding the Tens of Myriads suit. On this point the MJM Book is not wrong (For Pan Zhiheng's second treatise, see Andrew Lo's latest outcome: "Pan Zhiheng's Xu Yezi Pu (Sequel to a Manual of Leaves)", in: The Playing-Card, Vol. XXXI, No. 5, March-Apr. 2003, p. 221-229 and No. 6, May-June 2003, p. 278-284).
Thierry seems to be getting his source from Andrew Lo's Sequel to a Manual of Leaves,who got his source from Pan Zhiheng's Xu Yezi Pu. Pan Zhiheng is someone lives in 1556-1622. Apparently, among all human alive today, Andrew Lo seems to be the one most knowledgeable about all those old Chinese card games. Unfortunately, only staff can login to view the paper here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ShanghaiWu (talk • contribs) 17:56, 12 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, you told me that already. Mr. Wu, if you don't sign your name correctly I won't be able to answer your questions :) ! KrenakaroreTK19:56, 12 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Really? But I don't remember telling you the source right? Also, in the google group discussion, Thierry Depaulis said Che Zhang is a draw games. I wonder if it is also a draw and discard card game like Peng Hu and Mo Hu. We really need Andrew Lo's Sequel to a Manual of Leaves, don't we? ShanghaiWu (talk) 05:19, 13 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Krenakarore! I'm deeply impressed with your work on list of Kosenko's works, that is simply fascinating and a fantastic example for Ukrainian musicians to follow in Ukrainian Wikipedia. I'm sorry for being silent since we talked on Amakuha's page. I would really like to help you finish the list. Let me start with the "Titles to be translated" section. I see it already translated, but you want someone to just check the translations and find the articles corresponding the poets (if they exist), right? May I just make edits directly on the page? --Yury Bulka (talk) 00:39, 16 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Let's do the following: You work in my Sandbox. Whatever you wanna do there is ok. I will see what you're doing, make comments and give you directions so we find the best way to do that. "Titles to be translated" have been translated already, but I need to check and find a better translation. Somebody helped me with "I Am Mike The Whistler" which is a better translation if compared to the last one. This song came from Muzyczna Ukraina, an encyclopedia. The following text is in Polish language: "piosenka dla dziecka na fortepian, wierzse L. Zymnogo" (Song for children for piano, Verse by L. Zymnogo). I can't find who Zymno, or Zymn or Zymnogo is because I can't speak Polish :) ! Another example: Пісня про Тирольську трагедію» "Song about the Tyrol tragedy" (Pisnia pro Trypilsku tragediju). There may be an explanation for this song in Ukrainian language. What tragedy was Kosenko referring to ? That is, I need to explain the title of this song. Another exemple: „Smyczka” (sonf ro voice and piano), verse by W. Greblowa. I don't know what "Smyczka" means. I don't know who this W. Greblow or Greblowa is. Another exemple: "Пiснею про Сталiна зустрiчаймо день: для одноголосного дитячого хору з фп." I can't understand this. So, you can make whatever you want in my Sandbox. My wife and I are going to have a baby this next 21 May so I will be pretty busy in the hospital. Thanks Yury for everything you're doing. I have been waiting for this moment for a whole year :) ! KrenakaroreTK03:59, 16 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
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Hi, sorry if I'm picky, but... I read the section about the paintings and there is now a small but significant error. The text "...and above this appears the sacrifices of Cain and Abel, with Cain slaying his brother." Sorry, but it was right the first time around. It should be "...and above this appears the sacrifices of Cain and Abel, and Cain slaying his brother." There are two different pictures: #1 of Cain and Able making their sacrifices, and #2 of Cain murdering his brother. These are two separate events. You can read about them in Cain and Abel section Genesis narrative. Best, - W.carter (talk) 20:43, 10 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
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The important is the size of the pic at the nomination page, not on the article. Nonetheless, you need no permission from anyone to do what you think is best for the article, not yourself. User your common sense Mr. Hafspajen :) KrenakaroreTK12:42, 18 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Well 200px for a gallery is a fairly normal size for art galleries. However there are certain recomendations and customs followed in art related articles. *Manual of style: * say = As a general rule, images should not be set to a larger fixed size than the 220px default (users can adjust this in their preferences). 'If an exception to the general rule is warranted', forcing an image size to be either larger or smaller than the 220px default is done by placing a parameter in the image coding. The exception from the general rule is most art and art related articles that they do fall into this cathegory, and they are this exception to the general rule.
Mr. Halspajen, I am not against you. Yes, I know the MoS well, but I also know that people "oversize" pictures to such an extent even knowing that it is too much (they don't care). The pics that you "listed" might well be reduced without discrediting a compatible size for a work of art (400 or 500px - not the case for pics inside Galleries. Besides, that picture is nominated, not the whole gallery!). I left this up to your "common sense" once I can't dictate your move. Friendly, KrenakaroreTK13:05, 18 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Ok. Was only showing that even for Featured articles it is fully acceptable with bigger size pictures. About the nomination - the whole article is under the nomination - in that sense that the picture is not judged all by itself, but within the article. No pictures can be nominated that are 1) not in an article. 2) That are not having a fairly leading role in the article. 3) No picture will be accepted in a stub or a bad quality article. So, yes, the article is also judged to a certain extent. Since you are off line and told me that you leave it to me, I will put in the new gallery posted as a copromise on the talk page - it IS a compromise. And slightly increase Tuvstarr - so it is the same size as the infobox. Hafspajen (talk) 13:28, 18 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Much on the contrary, I am online. Yes, I know the article is always taken into account, once the picture is revised where it should be. Can I upload your suggestion on the talk page of the article John Bauer myself ? See you soon Mr. Halfspajen, KrenakaroreTK13:34, 18 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Well. Than this one gone bad = Status: Offline - in your right corner, shining red... Sorry - thought you were off... so I fixed it. One never knows who will start looking at that nomination. Hafspajen (talk) 13:42, 18 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I'll turn it on :) ! Best wishes on your nomination. Talk to Mr. Carter. I think he won't miss voting for something that he loves this much ! KrenakaroreTK13:48, 18 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Dear, take your hands off my butt please per → By clicking the "Save page" button, you agree to the Terms of Use and you irrevocably agree to release your contribution under the CC BY-SA 3.0 License. I have nothing against you, but this is my own talk. I wonder why you didn't say you are a lady in the first place. I would've told you that right away (Thank God, I repeat). I was never disrespectful to you, I did not revert or delete anything you did, much on the contrary, I sought consensus. But you should stop telling me what I should or should not do in my own "house". Wikipedia is a collaborative work, and "as far as I am concerned my personal preferences on Mainspace are totally irrelevant, and the same applies to you." Judging by your own Userspace I see that you love big pics, I do too, but there's a limit for what I should do, and removing your own comments from another user's talk (this is up to them to do, not me) is too much. Regardless of what you think of me, I will never stop calling you Miss once calling you Mr. now would be quite impolite from my part. Get rid of this "tough"-Halfspajen personality, you're much better than that. KrenakaroreTK18:59, 18 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
A very Happy Midsummer to you ! I left you a little gift at John Bauer, and I'll take the blame for it if someone objects. Best, - W.carter (talk) 10:40, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
I understand. I have been re-evaluating my position in Wikipedia. I won't be able to reply for a time. I hope you forgive me, reminding you that this whole thing here is a psychological exercise we need to cope with (ourselves, not with others). Best wishes for this Summer Solstice and congratulations for a commendable expansion on John Bauer (as you proved to us all, nothing here is forever once in life nothing's created, nothing's lost, everything's transformed. Still need to help a friend in US. I'll contact as soon as I can :) ! KrenakaroreTK 19:12, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Lourdinha Bittencourt, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Franz Gruber (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.
Hey, I couldn't help notice you remarked that you will be gone for a while, so I just wanted to say I hope all is fine with you and that you're a very appreciated person here on Wikipedia. Stay well! :) Yakikaki (talk) 15:36, 25 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
On 27 June 2014, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Rita Cléos, which you recently created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that Rita Cléos was the first actress filmed in a bathing scene on Brazilian TV? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Rita Cléos. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, live views, daily totals), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.
Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Annona crassiflora, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Strike (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.
P.S. I actually wrote the article on Gavin Williamson, too, just this week. What's your interest there? If you have any clues to info on Manuel, I'd be happy to do one on him, as well. Pkeets (talk) 00:10, 13 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Dear Pkeets, actually I needa finish some things here before going on a Wikibreak for my God-knows-there-for-how-long journey. I've been working on Moszkowski's list of compositions, which I'm about to finish. If I remember well, it was because of his Op. 34, Nr. 1 (Valse), played by Seta Tanyel, but erroneously credited as MoszWV71 (Valse Mignonne), that I stumbled upon Leginska. Something happened here and I needa stop for a while. This thing about Philip Manuel is interesting, but I'd needa know more about him. There's very little info on him available. Could you be more specific ? KrenakaroreTK00:49, 13 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The problem is that Manuel died in 1959 and a search didn't turn up an obituary. There are a lot of references that mention the two of them, but not much background. I gather they were sexual partners, as well as business partners. One reference said they shared a house. They probably kept their private life pretty private. Williamson was pretty easy because his obit turned up right away. I could use about the same info in a start or stub article on Manuel, but it would be nice to have place of birth, who he studied with and other early background. Right now I have him set up for a redirect to Williamson's article. An article on him was just a thought. I'm going to have very little time for Wikipedia myself for the next three weeks. Pkeets (talk) 01:40, 13 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Ethel Leginska, you added links pointing to the disambiguation pages Ballade and Aeolian Hall. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.
It was quite confusing going forth and back into her life. There's more, but I think the main part of her life and work is there. If you go through the events in her life in a chronological way, some copy-ed may better the article. You could well nominate Ethel Leginska too dear. It was six times expanded on the 12 of July. My recordings have been re-scheduled for next month, so I still have some time here. See ya later alligator (not for a while crocodile :) ! KrenakaroreTK20:24, 15 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Template:Did you know nominations/Armonía Somers - The reviewer is asking a question about sources/page numbers being confirmed. I can confirm that the inline citations I contributed match up; can you please confirm regarding the ones which you contributed? If it's too much of a hassle, as DYK can be, just let me know, as I don't want to force you to do anything, and I'd be ok with pulling the nomination. Best, --Rosiestep (talk) 22:33, 19 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Do you know how old is Khanhoo? The wikipedia Kahnhoo webpage said it's as old as Tien Gow but there's no citation so I put there citation needed in wikipedia.Slophaer (talk) 05:23, 19 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Armonía Somers, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page OAS. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.
No stress at all. Although the chronology of facts about her life were confusing from one language to another, it was worth seeing more of her life than just that which was said about her. You know how I feel, the important is what is left unsaid. The reviewer is a good person, I am sure. It's not the rules either, but their application. In other words, I love Math, but the teacher doesn't know how to explain it. I think another reviewer would have conducted that in quite a different mode. I'm in north Moravia. I've come home for a couple of things for the baby. Needa free my soul from Wikipedia, you know the story: Too much ado about nothing. KrenakaroreTK11:59, 22 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Dr. Blofeld. I'm afraid the article in question is a copy of gabrielmedinaoficial.com.br/gabriel-medina/ ! Nonetheless I read the text, made a translation and included some more information about him. If in any case you (chronologically) decide to re-tell his life with your own words that might even come to help. Best, KrenakaroreTK16:53, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I restored the reflist formatting [10], because it was breaking navigation of the page in two browsers I tried. Normally you can hover over an inline ref to see a preview and link to click, but that doesn't seem to work if the list is collapsed. 9kat (talk) 21:42, 25 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
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![[9]](http://homepage.mac.com/joel.jalladeau/vendee/files/8_2.png){kind=link}
