{{atop|result='''NO CONSENSUS''' This is the FOURTH time I am closing this. There is no consensus and there is no reasonable likelihood of that changing. THIS IS NOT TO BE RE-OPENED BY ANYONE OTHER THAN AN ADMIN. If you disagree with my close you may discuss it with me or request a review at [[WP:AN]]. I have already blocked one editor for their disruptive editing here. I would prefer not to have to do so again. [Note: I will be unavailable for the next several hours.] -[[User:Ad Orientem|Ad Orientem]] ([[User talk:Ad Orientem|talk]]) 17:22, 25 December 2017 (UTC)}}
{{ITN candidate
{{ITN candidate
| article = United Nations General Assembly resolution ES-10/L.22<!-- Do not wikilink -->
| article = United Nations General Assembly resolution ES-10/L.22<!-- Do not wikilink -->
Line 417:
Line 416:
*'''Comment''' uh-oh, Christmas just turned bad... In other news, this story is actually not really "in the news" any longer, is it? [[User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man]] ([[User talk:The Rambling Man|talk]]) 17:09, 25 December 2017 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' uh-oh, Christmas just turned bad... In other news, this story is actually not really "in the news" any longer, is it? [[User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man]] ([[User talk:The Rambling Man|talk]]) 17:09, 25 December 2017 (UTC)
::Sadly not. Standard time out tactics. If you argue long enough it will go stale. Granted that would actually be a more relevant closure than 'no consensus' with zero reference to the points made. [[User:Only in death|Only in death does duty end]] ([[User talk:Only in death|talk]]) 17:14, 25 December 2017 (UTC)
::Sadly not. Standard time out tactics. If you argue long enough it will go stale. Granted that would actually be a more relevant closure than 'no consensus' with zero reference to the points made. [[User:Only in death|Only in death does duty end]] ([[User talk:Only in death|talk]]) 17:14, 25 December 2017 (UTC)
This candidates page is integrated with the daily pages of Portal:Current events. A light green header appears under each daily section - it includes transcluded Portal:Current events items for that day. You can discuss ITN candidates under the header.
Srettha Thavisin
Thailand's Constitutional Court dismisses Prime Minister Srettha Thavisin(pictured) due to his appointment of a minister who had served time in jail.
Blurbs are one-sentence summaries of the news story.
Altblurbs, labelled alt1, alt2, etc., are alternative suggestions to cover the same story.
A target article, bolded in text, is the focus of the story. Each blurb must have at least one such article, but you may also link non-target articles.
Articles in the Ongoing line describe events getting continuous coverage.
The Recent deaths (RD) line includes any living thing whose death was recently announced. Consensus may decide to create a blurb for a recent death.
All articles linked in the ITN template must pass our standards of review. They should be up-to-date, demonstrate relevance via good sourcing and have at least an acceptable quality.
Nomination steps
Make sure the item you want to nominate has an article that meets our minimum requirements and contains reliable coverage of a current event you want to create a blurb about. We will not post about events described in an article that fails our quality standards.
Find the correct section below for the date of the event (not the date nominated). Do not add sections for new dates manually - a bot does that for us each day at midnight (UTC).
Create a level 4 header with the article name (==== Your article here ====). Add (RD) or (Ongoing) if appropriate.
Then paste the {{ITN candidate}} template with its parameters and fill them in. The news source should be reliable, support your nomination and be in the article. Write your blurb in simple present tense. Below the template, briefly explain why we should post that event. After that, save your edit. Your nomination is ready!
You may add {{ITN note}} to the target article's talk page to let editors know about your nomination.
The better your article's quality, the better it covers the event and the wider its perceived significance (see WP:ITNSIGNIF for details), the better your chances of getting the blurb posted.
When the article is ready, updated and there is consensus to post, you can mark the item as (Ready). Remove that wording if you feel the article fails any of these necessary criteria.
Admins should always separately verify whether these criteria are met before posting blurbs marked (Ready). For more guidance, check WP:ITN/A.
If satisfied, change the header to (Posted).
Where there is no consensus, or the article's quality remains poor, change the header to (Closed) or (Not posted).
Sometimes, editors ask to retract an already-posted nomination because of a fundamental error or because consensus changed. If you feel the community supports this, remove the item and mark the item as (Pulled).
Voicing an opinion on an item
Format your comment to contain "support" or "oppose", and include a rationale for your choice. In particular, address the notability of the event, the quality of the article, and whether it has been updated.
Pick an older item to review near the bottom of this page, before the eligibility runs out and the item scrolls off the page and gets abandoned in the archive, unused and forgotten.
Review an item even if it has already been reviewed by another user. You may be the first to spot a problem, or the first to confirm that an identified problem was fixed. Piling on the list of "support!" votes will help administrators see what is ready to be posted on the Main Page.
Tell about problems in articles if you see them. Be bold and fix them yourself if you know how, or tell others if it's not possible.
Add simple "support!" or "oppose!" votes without including your reasons. Similarly, curt replies such as "who?", "meh", or "duh!" are not helpful. A vote without reasoning means little for us, please elaborate yourself.
Oppose an item just because the event is only relating to a single country, or failing to relate to one. We post a lot of such content, so these comments are generally unproductive.
Accuse other editors of supporting, opposing or nominating due to a personal bias (such as ethnocentrism). We at ITN do not handle conflicts of interest.
Comment on a story without first reading the relevant article(s).
Seven Israeli chess players are denied travel visas to the Rapid and Blitz Chess Championships in Saudi Arabia as the two countries have no diplomatic relations. Players from Qatar and Iran are given last-minute visas, while Ukrainian champion Anna Muzychuk refuses to participate because she does not want to wear an abaya. (BBC)
Fifteen militants accused of carrying out attacks in 2013 during the Sinai Insurgency are hanged in Egypt. The last mass execution in the country took place in 2015, when six jihadists were executed. (BBC)
Voters in Liberia will elect a new president in a run-off election between vice-president Joseph Boakai and former footballer George Weah. Weah is elected with 60% of the vote. (BBC)(BBC)
Grigory Rodchenkov, the person who exposed Russia's systematic doping of Olympic athletes, is warned by U.S. officials that Russian agents may be inside the United States looking for him, and that new security measures must be taken to ensure his safety. (UPROXX)(BBC Sport)
The Russian Central Election Commission refuses to register opposition leader Alexei Navalnyas a candidate in the presidential election due to a previous embezzlement conviction, which he claims is politicized. Navalny has called for his supporters to boycott the upcoming election in response. (BBC)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Support - After Improvements are completed. I don't understand though why the nominator not just add some sources and a few clean up edits. In it's current state the article is far from being RD ready.--BabbaQ (talk) 21:22, 25 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's comments: As a former head of state convicted for human rights abuses while he was president, Fujimori's conviction was huge. Pardoning him has been a big issue in Peruvian politics for years, especially as his daughter nearly won the presidency. And this comes just days after PPK survived impeachment and on Christmas no less. -- irn (talk) 03:45, 25 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
A very notable figure, not sure if the pardon is an anticlimax. Needs more than the current one-sentence update. Not to be insensitive, but are we going to see him on RD shortly? Need more info before deciding to support. μηδείς (talk) 04:21, 25 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Fujimori's own article is clearly unsuitable as a target, and as mentioned above, the pardon "section" of the "arrest and trial" article is inadequate. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:15, 25 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
It meets both the updated content and the significance requirements. What more do you want from the article? I think the significance of the event is pretty clear (and thus far undisputed), and this is obviously an example of a recent event that relates directly to previous occurrences (the crimes, trial, and conviction), which the article covers pretty thoroughly. -- irn (talk) 17:35, 25 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure I remember one sentence, repeated, as being the update requirements. And I'm sure I understand the significance of pardoning someone who's going to die soon anyway, seems like a standard Christmas-political-vote-winning-manoeuvre, added with the additional aspects of corruption of Kuczynski's own doings, this is just kissing babies. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:47, 25 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
P.S. I just had another look at WP:ITN regarding "update requirements", and found The decision as to when an article is updated enough is subjective, but a five-sentence update (with at minimum three references, not counting duplicates) is generally more than sufficient, while a one-sentence update is highly questionable. which seems to be what I was recalling, as opposed to what you're claiming. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:56, 25 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
You didn't answer my question. You also seemed to have missed If the recent/current event relates directly to previous occurrences (e.g. a major award honoring past achievements), the article can be considered sufficiently updated when there is consensus that it contains appropriate, up-to-date coverage of the entire chronology, irrespective of when the text was written or how many sentences pertain specifically to the recent/current event (apart from the requirement that it be mentioned). -- irn (talk) 17:59, 25 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I want more coverage of why he was pardoned, what was wrong with him, what's the political background and context to the pardoning, who else was pardoned, etc etc etc. You have no consensus at all so your counter-claim is actually baseless. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:02, 25 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
SNOW CLOSE per WP:POINT and WP:RGW etc. It appears I misread this and it was actually intended to be serious. Apologies to the nom for not getting their point. That said, please don't do this sort of thing again. -Ad Orientem (talk) 22:34, 24 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Nominator's comments: In 2015 we turned down "Santa is on his way", so I thought we might try telling the truth for a change - after all that's what at least some of us think we're supposed to be here for, if necessary per WP:IAR and the related 5th Pillar of Wikipedia. (Not all of us of course, see for instance WP:The Truth, WP:Righting Great Wrongs, WP:FLAT, etc)
My position is essentially the same as in 2015 when I wrote in reply to a claim that the issue wasn't serious:
So you think there is nothing serious about helping kids who are old enough to read Wikipedia to learn that Santa Claus is a fiction inflicted on them by lying adults? Tlhslobus (talk) 02:07, 25 December 2015 (UTC)
And do you also think that there is nothing serious about potential long-term benefits for Wikipedia in the form of the long-term gratitude of some of the kids who realize they have learnt the truth thanks to Wikipedia? Or do you think that the encyclopedia is improved by depriving itself of those long-term benefits? Tlhslobus (talk) 02:23, 25 December 2015 (UTC)
(I should perhaps add that I personally only really care about the potential benefits to the kids, but I'm also mentioning the potential benefits to Wikipedia (which for me are just a minor bonus) because they are real and because others here may really care about them, and it's probably a very good thing if they do so) Tlhslobus (talk) 02:56, 25 December 2015 (UTC)
I would also add, in reply to claims that such lies are just harmless fun, that I would like to know, if they really are such harmless fun, why I can still remember the mental distress caused by such lies to me as a kid more than half a century later (and I got off lightly compared to some kids who have been bullied as a result of such lies). I also remember getting plenty of non-distressing fun as a kid out of fairy tales and cartoon characters , without anybody telling me fairies and cartoon characters were real. And if I were still a Christian, as many editors here still are, I'd probably add something about the Gospel saying that Christ warned that it would be better to be thrown into the sea with a millstone around your neck than suffer the fate reserved for those who allow harm to come to little children.
Administrator note I am treating this as a humorous nomination intended to poke fun at one of the sillier customs of the season. In that vein I think it can be left open over night. -Ad Orientem (talk) 21:32, 24 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, Ad Orientem. It seems I had to say systematic lying to kids (etc) was something serious in order to re-open this supposedly 'cute but clearly not serious nom', and now I have to pretend to agree that systematic lying to kids (etc) is hilarious in order to keep it open. I guess it just goes to show it's a funny old world. Tlhslobus (talk) 22:17, 24 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sorry, is this a genuine nomination or a bit of fun? If the former, it seems a fairly obvious oppose from me. — fox21:04, 24 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose ITN does not report things that *don't* happen, nor do we conduct media criticism or OR. And what about the presents, @Tlhslobus? How do you explain the presents? GCG (talk) 21:44, 24 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The presents are brought by three Wise Men who are 300 years older than St Nicholas of Myra and Bari, which explains why scientists never find reindeer poo at the bottom of chimneys at Christmas, because camel poo is completely different.Tlhslobus (talk) 22:08, 24 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Santa exists. Proof: Note that if the statement "X = A implies B" is true and A is true then that implies that B is true. Then let A be X and B the statement that Santa exists. So, X says that if X is true then Santa exists. Now if we just assume that X is true, then it's clear that Santa exists. What if X is false? Well, any statement of the form X implies B is always true if X is false, and since X = X implies B, this means that assuming X to be false implies that X is true, which is a contradiction. Therefore X can only be true, and therefore Santa actually exists. Count Iblis (talk) 22:31, 24 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
AVIC AG600
Article:AVIC AG600 (talk·history·tag) Blurb: In China, the AVIC AG600 (pictured), the world's largest amphibious aircraft, makes its maiden flight. (Post) News source(s):(BBC) Credits:
Comment it's in the news for sure. Ref #4 for china.org is used for weight and range but is not in the ref. Should be easy to fix. Haven't had time to check the rest. --CosmicAdventure (talk) 18:30, 24 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support - We post various first flights from time to time, this airplane is the biggest of its type (and an uncommon type at that), and it interests me personally. --Bongwarrior (talk) 22:21, 24 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Incremental? other than being bigger than the last model, what else makes this noteworthy? Some true design or technological advance? μηδείς (talk) 04:26, 25 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
What else? Well, it's Chinese. A nation that has punched well below its weight aircraft manufacture-wise for years. Seems to be starting to catch up now though. Mjroots (talk) 07:13, 25 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, it's Chinese! Had it been Irish support would have been a no-brainer? Sorry. Am leaning oppose unless I can be pointed to why this is a qualitative, not just a quantitative story. Otherwise we'd be posting the Dow and the US Federal Debt every week. μηδείς (talk) 15:53, 25 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment not wishing to be dragged into a "Dow Jones hits xxxx" debate, in what sense is this the largest? And by how much? And which record does it break? I.e. how "incremental" is it? The Rambling Man (talk) 17:13, 25 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Nominator's comments: While probably another sabre-rattling, at least this was announced before the first nuke towards Washington might be out. And UNSC resolutions are treated more seriously than the UNGA ones. Brandmeistertalk10:54, 24 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose North Korea has made numerous claims similar to this in recent years, last year they claimed that another resolution was the exact same thing, and this year, they claimed that when the US flew two bombers near its territory, that it was an “declaration of war”, despite this, they never respond in a manner as though war has been declared. Kirliator (talk) 14:45, 24 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Sabre-rattling and North Korean rhetoric at it finest. As the previous user mentioned above, we actually had a post very similar to this back in October, which almost everyone opposed. This is fine if it were posted to DYK, but not ITN. SamaranEmerald (talk) 14:51, 24 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - If we posted every moment of bellicose North Korea rhetoric on ITN, we literally would not have room to post anything else.WaltCip (talk) 15:11, 24 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - North Korea would like to cordially invite you to fear North Korea - nothing new, nothing newsworthy. If North Korea actually instigate war, then we'll revisit. Stormy clouds (talk) 15:24, 24 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Loony NK is already at war with the UN. That's what an armistice is, war in a state of suspended animation. There has been no peace treaty ending the Korean Conflict. You can't unfriend someone twice. μηδείς (talk) 15:46, 24 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Support Major event. Article is in decent shape and well referenced. My only quibble is the current information section which smacks of a news ticker, which we are WP:NOT. I suggest removing it. The links to current information can temporarily be put in External Links. -Ad Orientem (talk) 17:28, 23 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose I know things are still happening, but the article contradicts itself with the numbers killed and isn't up to date (last update 0600 UTC 23/12). The Rambling Man (talk) 21:52, 23 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support Being the creator of this article, I'll try to add more as the hours go by and will make sure the number of fatalities are equal and well sourced. This storm is a 'big' one at the moment. I'll try my best to add in the info. :) Typhoon2013(talk)22:12, 23 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, no problem, I just hope that before it gets posted (which it absolutely should) then when it goes up it's at least as internally consistent and up to date as possible. Of course, once it's on the main page, all bets are off! The Rambling Man (talk) 22:17, 23 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Ready certainly meets notability and update requirements, well sourced, tags are merely procedural and not a hindrance to immediate posting. Please let's not wait for this to be days old. μηδείς (talk) 02:28, 24 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Posted slightly modified blurb. I'm not too happy about the "current information" section, but otherwise decent, and a significant event: so I'm not going to ignore consensus here. Vanamonde (talk) 03:05, 24 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The digital cryptocurrency Bitcoin loses a third of its value within 24 hours. (CNN)
CSX Corporation names chief operating officer Jim Foote its new chief executive officer, succeeding E. Hunter Harrison who died last week. Harrison had started a restructuring campaign less than a year ago. (Reuters)
Apple Inc. faces backlash and lawsuits after admitting to slowing down the speed on some of their older phones deliberately. (CNET)(Business Insider)
Disasters and accidents
The Philippine Coast Guard reports that 252 passengers and crew have been rescued while five people were killed when a ferry capsized Thursday east of Manila. (Reuters)
Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas says he will not accept any U.S. plan for peace with Israel, because it recognized Jerusalem as Israel's capital. (BBC)
The United Nations Security Council unanimously imposes new sanctions on North Korea that caps refined petroleum product imports to 500,000 barrels a year, a 90 percent cut, and demands the repatriation of North Koreans working abroad within 24 months. (Reuters)
Pro-independence parties retain their absolute majority in the regional parliament, while the unionist Citizens party secures the highest number of seats. (BBC)
The political situation means that there is no clarity as to which party is given the right to form the government. (BBC)
The voter turnout reaches a record high for a Catalan regional election of over 83%. (Reuters)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Nominator's comments: Massive corporate tax cut, one of the largest in U.S. history for the top 1% of earners in America. Major social and economic implications. It is also the first major legislative victory for the GOP in the first year of the Trump administration, narrowly preventing them from looking like a laughingstock. WaltCip (talk) 16:04, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I think not. Considering that Net Neutrality was posted due to its widespread coverage - and because this tax act received nonstop coverage for months in the media for being supposedly damaging to the vast majority of taxpayers in the US - it's way too premature to call this SNOW. The tides have changed on ITN recently and I think we've become a bit more inclusive of these sorts of stories.--WaltCip (talk) 16:10, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Oppose this has dominated US news and "global significance" is a fake made up requirement. Still the bill is meaningless in terms of it's actual impact on real people. --CosmicAdventure (talk) 16:13, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
It's STILL closed, move on.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The nominator can withdraw his nomination, but the bias above is astounding, given the repeal of the Obamacare tax, the number of corporations announcing bonuses, raising their minimum wage voluntarily to $15, billions promised in new investment and trillions in repatriated capital. That this was posted as an attack on a BLP is outdone only by the silly panic over the net neutrality non-event. We would have posted it if the federal government had forced corporations to accept the $15 minimum wage. But the fact that they can afford to voluntarily ("meaningless in terms of it's actual impact on real people") is seen as what? Shameful? μηδείς (talk) 23:27, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Shameful? I know that I would not support a nomination about changes to the Irish tax code, even if it completely overhauled everything, including HSE policies, and drove strong economic growth. To post the US's government doing such a thing would amount to little more than geocentricism, one of the things that ITN is stated to be against. All that happened here is that the government of one country changed its tax policy - the size of the country is not of important in my view. If it is, then yes, I guess that I am biased, given that I wish to prevent ITN transforming further into an exclusively US item. Stormy clouds (talk) 23:40, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The POV exhibited is shameful. The nomination was open for 25 minutes. Opposing this on grounds that it's legislation is fine--we should not have posted the net neutrality order either. But consider the difference. Here, dozens of large corporations have announced bonuses, raises for hourly employees, and new investment directly related to the biggest tax reform in the US since the 1980's, one that cuts the world's highest corporate rate in half, and we hear that this only benefits the 1%? This is both unorthodox in posting and withdrawal and the comments are, if one assumes good faith, ill-informed at best. I am not going to renominate it, if someone else does I will support it. I will also respect WaltCip's prerogative in withdrawing it. And although consensus in the past has been to leave nominations up for at least 6-12 hours, I won't comment further. μηδείς (talk) 00:55, 23 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: First female mayor of Toronto. Article needs citations for the political career and an update, but it was just announced so that info should be readily available to add. Floydianτ¢15:45, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. There isn't a single sentence describing what she accomplished in her mayoral career, which is what she is notable for. All that's currently included about that is information about her election and then a sentence about political drama that she was wrongly associated with. I'm sure some obituary coverage will have information about what she accomplished while in office. Best, SpencerT♦C05:46, 24 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's comments: This is certainly in the news, with possible ramifications as well. We posted UNGA 67/19. some work is still ging on to add reactions and debate but that hould be done soon. Updated, just the 1 section on debate is ongoing.Lihaas (talk) 08:07, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I'd like to make several points here. Firstly, the blurb is unnecessarily indicative on the President of the United States when the decision doesn't affect his personal life but the foreign policy of the United States. Secondly, the United States have their freedom to choose how to shape their relations with other countries and it's not someone else's business to decide on the legitimacy of their decisions. Thirdly, it seems like the media don't give too much damn about this resolution and have put the news on the back burner. Finally, there is not even a sign of some long-lasting impact from this resolution that would make it worth posting.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 08:43, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Feel free to change the blurb, I would more than likely support it.
don't get other points as A. what country X/Y/Z wants/does/will do is irrelevant (and a bit POV a reason to support/oppose) and B. it IS in the news.Lihaas (talk) 10:09, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. The blurb is factually incorrect, aside from not meriting posting. The UNGA is a toothless body and it certainly does not have the power to nullify US laws or decide where the US or any sovereign country places its embassy to another country. If countries start breaking diplomatic relations with the US(unlikely) over this, then that might merit posting, but not this toothless vote. 331dot (talk) 10:17, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Weird from someone who [rightly] points to the merits/in the news other than the politics as an aside. [politics are irrelevant, ie the UNGA 67/19 posting.Lihaas (talk) 12:12, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sorry but your comment does not entirely make sense to me. Opposition to the US move was already known and publicized at the time, this toothless resolution just restates it. 331dot (talk) 13:03, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
It was already clear immediately after the decision that the rest of the world was opposed to the decision, this vote is just a formal expression of that. It changes little about this matter. 331dot (talk) 10:44, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Fortunately actual change taking place is not a criteria for being on ITN. If we are going to tacitly support Trump's racist and divisive pronouncements by giving them front page coverage and then not give the bare minimum to the response, we are just being used as part of his hate machine. At this point it just looks like more of the pro-Israel bias that is widespread on ENWP. Only in death does duty end (talk) 10:53, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
It is true that "actual change" is not a formal ITN criteria, but it is part of my personal criteria. It need not be part of yours, that is the whole point of this discussion. My opposition has nothing to do with Donald Trump, the US Government, or Israel, it has to do with the merits of this story. No ITN posting should be seen as an endorsement of any viewpoint. Readers interested in this toothless vote will learn of it from the article on their own. 331dot (talk) 11:00, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I admit no such thing, as every user has their own personal criteria, otherwise there would be no point for discussion on this page and we would simply use a formula and be a news ticker. We disagree and that's fine; I submit there is no further need to discuss this between us two. Thank you 331dot (talk) 11:09, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
OK, ok, change of topic...you should see the adorable little sweetie on my whatsapp DP...haven't met her in 3+ years and she has grown. Must be what 7 now ;) Lihaas (talk) 12:24, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Just doesn't seem to have hit enough worldwide headlines (round here the sustained coverage is on Damian Green being a dirty old man, but I wouldn't put that up for ITNC). I wonder if we're reaching "Peak Trump" and the world generally is just getting tired of his ranting and sticking him on mute. Ritchie333(talk)(cont)10:45, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support we posted the recognition, we should post this as well. Toothless or not, this is still the action of >100 countries, including countries such as Japan, NZ etc that are traditional US allies (hence the comment that they're sheep a couple of days ago). Banedon (talk) 11:46, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Almost all of the UNGA passes a resolution every year criticizing the US embargo against Cuba. These resolutions are meaningless and simply reflect what is already known. 331dot (talk) 12:53, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, that is a resolution where the GA determined the status of an entity in relation to itself, which is meaningless outside of the GA. They can pass a resolution making Mickey Mouse the leader of the body if they want to. 331dot (talk) 13:10, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support We posted the US declaration, which seemed excessive to me. How can we not post the reaction of basically every other country in the world? Seems an enormous case of WP:GEOBIAS here. AusLondonder (talk) 12:43, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
So your argument is, we posted this initially even though it was excessive, so we should post this too? The reaction was already known at the time. 331dot (talk) 12:51, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
"How the creation of Israel was helped by a UN vote in 1948 when, due mainly to the colonialism of the time, it had a much smaller mostly Western membership" seems irrelevant to our present discussion. Zigzig20s said "The UN is not ...", not "The UN has never been ...". Tlhslobus (talk) 09:08, 24 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support The news I see comes from a very wide variety of sources, and I'm seeing a lot about this. In terms of significance the reactions should possibly have been in the same blurb, but would have meant sub-optimal language; so posting this separately is the next best option. Vanamonde (talk) 12:52, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support - As long as we posted the U.S. declaration regarding Jerusalem, it seems fair that we would post the counter-declaration from the United Nations.--WaltCip (talk) 12:58, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Though I still oppose this, I've suggested an alt blurb as the UNGA has no power, effectively or otherwise, to nullify actions of the US or any sovereign nation. 331dot (talk) 13:58, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Symbolic vote, non-binding, changes nothing. Trump recognizing Jerusalem as Israel's capital increased discord and the chance of war, which is why it was posted. – Muboshgu (talk) 15:06, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose as purely a symbolic vote. Each nomination should stand on its own merits - the fact that we posted Trump recognizing Jerusalem, which was much more newsworthy, should not influence whether we post this entirely predictable response.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 15:38, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Absurd The general assembly can vote to effectively nullify pi if it wants. But where the US puts its embassy is between the US and Israel. μηδείς (talk) 15:55, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per Muboshgu; Trump's decision has consequences, such that the UNGA felt the need to respond. Except that response does NOT have consequences. These are not comparable. GCG (talk) 16:02, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Oppose The final blurb I would support as it is correct and newsworthy. The blurbs using the verb "nullify" I do not support as they are factually incorrect. The verb "nullify" means to make something null and void. The General Assembly doesn't have the legal authority under the UN charter to actually nullify the actions of a member state - a point which the sources are all very clear about. It can declare something null and void (in the same way I can declare all Wikipedia policies null and void if I want, but I can't actually nullify Wikipedia policies). Only resolutions of the Security Council are binding on member states. To nullify indicates a declaration carries with it actual effect, which is not correct in this case. Chetsford (talk) 16:49, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose the article is not good quality, there are typos and some of the sources need to be improved - it is also very difficult for editors to improve it while it is under a 1RR restriction. Also, I think that including the announcement was enough, its not clear that this resolution with have any effect beyond reaffirming, and the standards for inclusion on ITN are usually pretty high.Seraphim System(talk)02:12, 23 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment That it took four tries to get a blurb that didn't farcically inflate the importance of the vote should tell you something about its actual relevance. GCG (talk) 13:49, 23 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose This was expected as a result of Trumps decision, that the rest of the world would not like it. As this is just a vote of no binding results, it is an not unexpected result. The more recent vote on stronger NK sanctions is more lasting impact than this. --Masem (t) 17:23, 23 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Highly significant, worldwide coverage. This is the most notable UN resolution in years, as the theatre around it with threats and screaming etc. from Trump attests to. It was widely interpreted by RS as a the world community's rejection of Trump. --Tataral (talk) 21:17, 23 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per Masem, also while the UN declares the recognition as null and void, Trump will still recognize it by heart, a decision the UN can do nothing about. Kirliator (talk) 21:54, 23 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support, using Altblurb 3 or 4, but Oppose if using Altblurbs 1 or 2: I'm against altblurbs 1 and 2 because the vote hasn't "effectively nullified" anything. As for supporting posting anything, it's in the News and especially relevant per WP:WORLDWIDE. The only problem I see with posting this item is that such a posting might help mislead a few of our readers into mistakenly thinking that we were not part of the Western mainstream media (who have consistently ignored anti-Western UN GA votes (as being toothless, irrelevant, biased, etc), as the likes of Noam Chomsky frequently complain, ever since the GA stopped being a Western mouthpiece sometime around the 1960s thanks to decolonization - before then the same media regularly reported the GA as 'the moral conscience of the world'). Note that a few of our contributors (arguably including me, but, in my case, only to a very slight extent, as I'm 75% to 95% mainstream) are 'exceptions that prove the rule', as is also the case with a few of the contributors to the rest of our mainstream media. But I think the number of readers thus misled will be very small, so I've decided not to let that possibility trump (oops, sorry for that unfortunate POV-like double entendre) other considerations. Tlhslobus (talk) 09:33, 24 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support – Votes here seem almost evenly split, with one (or two?) more on the plus side. Hard to derive consensus from that. On the other hand, this resolution shows how thin support for DT's current policy vis-a-vis Israel is among major U.S. allies, which seems very significant. Another consideration is that for many readers the Christmas holidays will overshadow any news that's the least bit old. So I'd urge an admin to decide now whether to post. (Marked for attn.) Sca (talk) 16:06, 24 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I voted and cannot judge consensus here, but I will note that some of the opposition was due to the dodgy language about nullification in the original blurb, which has since been addressed by alternate blurbs. Also, "The US can put its embassy where it likes" does not IMO carry any weight as a reason for opposition. The opposition due to significance and level of coverage remain, of course. Vanamonde (talk) 16:28, 24 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Sadly not. Standard time out tactics. If you argue long enough it will go stale. Granted that would actually be a more relevant closure than 'no consensus' with zero reference to the points made. Only in death does duty end (talk) 17:14, 25 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
A ferry sinks off the coast of Luzon in the Philippines with 251 passengers on board. At least four people are reported to have died. The toll is expected to rise, as many are still missing. (NPR)
Judge Michael Bohren rules Anissa Weier will spend 25 years in institutional care after she was previously found not guilty by reason of mental disease or defect of the 2014 stabbing of her classmate. (WITI)
The CubanParliament approves moving the country's municipal elections to March, and the presidential election to April, when PresidentRaúl Castro is expected to step down. (ABC News)
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: NASA astronaut. Not among the most famous, and the article does need more references; nominating in case that will prompt some more work on the article. Carcharoth (talk) 18:39, 23 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@The Rambling Man and Carcharoth: Cited the whole article. Let me know if you would like additional work done. Feel free to ping me whenever an astronaut dies and the article needs additional work, I am trying to get them done ahead of time, but do not get to them all in time. Kees08 (Talk)01:47, 24 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Needs massive rewrite no longer a stub, but much of the prose reads as a very bad machine translation, and some of the facts cannot be parsed from what is written. A bilingual editor needs to put this in proper, idiomatic English before it can be posted. μηδείς (talk) 22:58, 24 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
I had too much work to do before leaving for my Christmas holiday to work on this. I don't have the time to devote to it now. Shame it's not in better shape than when I last saw it. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:50, 24 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's comments: The snap election was called after Puigdemont and his cabinet declared independence from Spain, and it was the intention to remove the separtist parties from power to quash and quell dissent. This result means that that ambition has failed, and that the future of the region is deeply uncertain. Notability is derived from the fact that this is a major development in a massive story from earlier in the year, and will unquestionably have long-lasting and profound ramifications on a global scale. Article is workable, but could do with updates as results are confirmed. Stormy clouds (talk) 00:07, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose for now. It's still a regional election. If something happens that makes this more than a regional election, then we can post that. Banedon (talk) 00:16, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support This is obviously a highly notable election that eclipses the normal restraints customary for a sub-national vote. The BBC World Service devoted 30 minutes of uninterrupted coverage to news and analysis of it today alone, which is notably remarkable given it was a busy news day. It covered the front page of papers in Sweden (Dagens Nyheter) [1], Malta (Times of Malta) [2]), Denmark (Jyllands-Posten) [3], France (Libération) [4], and numerous other countries around the world, and is currently the leading headline on politico.eu. This election has implications beyond Catalona, including Spain and the whole EU generally. Chetsford (talk) 00:26, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose They're not an independent nation-state. Posting this on the main page would be POV-pushing, an activist way to promote their cause.Zigzig20s (talk) 02:16, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The newsworthiness of events is a factor of their relative importance to other events, and the interest displayed by people in them (see here [5] on page 2). The legal status of a thing is not a factor in evaluating the newsworthiness of that thing, either by the standards of ITN or by a consensus view as to what constitutes news. If it were, there would be no such thing as crime reporting.Chetsford (talk) 02:36, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The stated purpose of ITN is to "help readers find and quickly access content they are likely to be searching for because an item is in the news". The legal status of Catalonia is irrelevant to a determination as to whether or not the election was "in the news". Chetsford (talk) 02:49, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support - significant step ahead for pro-independence. Election was regional but stil an election about the independence of Catalonia more so than anything else.BabbaQ (talk) 02:18, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The election is not an anticipated event. It is an event that has, in fact, occurred. The fact that Karl used a past-tense verb is not enough to invoke CRYSTALBALL. Chetsford (talk) 02:56, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support this was not an "illegal" unilateral referendum. It was a frankly authoritarian dictat imposed by the central government after standing law had been overridden in the name of an "emergency". Given that alone it is noteworthy, and given the round denunciation of Madrid and Felipe in the results, it's a hell of a lot more monumental than a roleback of Net Neutrality. μηδείς (talk) 02:54, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
support per Chetsford and Medeis, regardless of outcome. When ready as it is had no porose yet. so Franco is dead alas, as for that matter is spain when the Basques and Canaries follow, not to mention Scotland and South Tyrol coming near you...Lihaas (talk) 05:24, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support This is a clearly notable election with wide media coverage. Those claiming that it's simply a regional election, thus marginalising what was happening in the last three months, seem to have a point.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 08:04, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support - yes, it's a regional election, but one with potential for major changes ahead, and of Continent-wide importance far in excess of its locality. This is a clear case of WP:IAR needing to be invoked and the story posting. Mjroots (talk) 08:11, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, Stormy clouds. But the issues I mention below are still not addressed (and regretably I will not be attempting to fix them myself per WP:NOTCOMPULSORY, due to unnecessarily unpleasant previous memories of unsuccessfully attempting to improve a Catalonia article).Tlhslobus (talk) 16:34, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support in principle but oppose for now per Lihaas. The Aftermath section is unreferenced, and the article lacks any prose discussion on the results and their implication. — Amakuru (talk) 10:15, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I am convinced this is notable as per Mjroots above. It's not ITNR and it shouldn't be but that doesn't mean it can't pass the "ordinary" ITNC criteria. I haven't yet checked article quality (I'm phone only right now and prefer to do that on desktop). --LukeSurltc13:11, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Regarding the blurb, I don't think it's accurate to say Puigdemont leads these parties. Puigdemont is the leader of Junts per Catalunya but there are 3 different parties which make up a pro-independence majority. Also describing him as "exiled" is misleading, as this is self-imposed. Without qualification it makes it sound like Spain expelled him from the country. Lastly the pro-independence parties maintained rather than gained a majority. All of these issues are dealt with in the alt blurb I've just suggested. --LukeSurltc13:18, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Exile is almost always self-imposed - like Puigdemont, another leader in exile would be free to return to the country but, also like Puigdemont, would very likely face charges and possible imprisonment there, which is why they are regarded as in exile. Anyway, it's up to 3rd party sources to determine that, not us, and plenty do call him exiled:[6][7][8] On the other points, you're probably right, and on that level I agree that your new blurb is better. — Amakuru (talk) 13:39, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose the blurb makes it unclear what the election was. Given the big recent news from Catalonia, people might assume it was another referendum on independence. As it was actually the autonomous communities parliament, the significance is nuanced. The 'independent' parties were participating in an election sanctioned by Spain and continue to at least implicitly acknowledge Spanish sovereignty. Don't think it is ripe for ITN and given the muddled situation too nuanced to be blurbed. --Klaun (talk) 14:57, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Semantically, an election and a referendum are different ideas. There is no such thing as an "independence election". The participating parties were in an election forced by Spain, and the election was firmly divided along independence lines. The Home Rule League acknowledged British sovereignty, yet this did not make their stance nuanced. This is a clear victory for pro-Catalan independence, even in the face of harsh Spanish criticism and come-downs, and so is not particularly nuanced in my view. Stormy clouds (talk) 15:36, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support on Notability, Oppose for now on Quality: (Although there are still some changes I'd like to see, as indicated below, I'm satisfied that quality has now improved enough for me to be able to change to Support) At the very least we need more text explaining the results, and in particular, we need an explanation for how our Infobox shows the Pro-Independence parties up 3 seats when they are actually down 2, as pointed out in The Guardian, and as I have already asked here at the Talk Page. We probably also need to spell out that the Pro-Independence parties are again short of a majority of the popular vote, and their percentage is actually down (seemingly by about 0.4%, though there may be rounding errors in that figure). Regretably I will not be attempting to fix these issues myself per WP:NOTCOMPULSORY, due to unnecessarily unpleasant previous memories of unsuccessfully attempting to improve a Catalonia article. Meanwhile, could somebody please ping me when they feel these issues have been fixed, so that, assuming they are indeed fixed, I can then decide to switch my vote to Support. Tlhslobus (talk) 15:52, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the great work, Stormy clouds. Although there are still some changes I'd like to see, I'm satisfied that quality has now improved enough, so I've now changed to Support. The additional changes I'd like to see is by how much the Pro-Independence percentage popular vote is down, with both percentage (47.49%, only in the lead last time I looked) and change appearing at least in the Aftermath section (and change possibly also in the lead, where 47.49% is already found). Pro-Independence down 2 seats should perhaps also appear in the lead, if it's not is already there. Tlhslobus (talk) 17:50, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I strongly oppose inclusion of "how much the Pro-Independence percentage popular vote is down" since no such figure exists. This week's vote was an election to a regional legislative body, not a referendum on independence. Including "how much the Pro-Independence percentage popular vote is down" could only be accomplished by assuming that each individual voter voted on a candidate based solely on their position on the political status of Catalonia, and ignored any other issues being debated during the campaign such as road construction and maintenance, education funding, or marginal tax rates. Chetsford (talk) 18:57, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Not that it matters much now that the item is posted (unless somebody wants it pulled), but I was simply using inaccurate shorthand for the percentage vote for Pro-Independence parties, which is reported in reliable sources such as The Guardian link I gave above (which they gave as 47.5% at the time (with 1% of the vote still to be counted), adding that it once again failed to reach 50%). So I expect there are now many reliable sources now mentioning that the figure is down on 2015, and, assuming that is the case, it should be reported, per WP:NOTCENSORED (and, if necessary, WP:IAR, etc). Tlhslobus (talk) 00:26, 23 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose results section needs prose update. Opinion polls prose has no refs. Campaign section needs prose. Stances table has no refs. Insignificant local election, but also not MP quality. --CosmicAdventure (talk) 15:57, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support the "aftermath" section contains the necessary prose as other commentators noted was needed. My comments on notability are above. This is ready to post. --LukeSurltc20:07, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Pull@Ad Orientem: could you take a look please? Unless I'm missing something there are still missing refs (maybe the prose update for results standard has gone out the window but surely we're not ok with whole unreferenced tables). --CosmicAdventure (talk) 18:21, 23 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. The tables are mostly unreferenced or their referencing is unclear. I have dropped a note on the article talk page and will give a little grace period in case this can be quickly fixed. But if the referencing is not improved fairly quickly I will pull it until this issue is corrected. -Ad Orientem (talk) 19:20, 23 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Ad Orientem: I reviewed those before posting. Do not pull, as the sources are provided at the bottom of the table. Providing individual citations for each box is not required by policy or standard... doing so would cost hundreds of hours of volunteer time on each article such tables exist in. — Coffee // have a ☕️ // beans // 19:29, 23 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Coffee. Improvements are ongoing and I am not pulling it. The results tables are good now and the only other three that are not adequately referenced are being worked on. -Ad Orientem (talk) 21:58, 23 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Oppose. Where are you getting "terrorist incident"? The authorities are taking great pains to make it clear that this isn't a terrorist attack and that it's being treated as a straightforward road accident in which the driver was under the influence of drugs. ‑ Iridescent11:52, 21 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. This isn't a "mass civilian attack", it is as Iridescent describes it. No one has died. I would question whether it even merits an article. 331dot (talk) 12:01, 21 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I guess I equate "mass civilian attack" with "terrorist attack". I would also question how "deliberate" it was if the alleged suspect had a mental illness. 331dot (talk) 12:14, 21 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - Not newsworthy in the slightest, owing to the lack of deaths and the lack of a terroristic motive. It was already a stretch getting the AmTrak crash up there. --WaltCip (talk) 12:11, 21 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Oppose Prose makes the impeachment sound like a formality, then the vote fails... there could be a story there. But what happened with the vote? Don't they have whip counts in Peru? It sounds like they were trying to force a resignation without having the coalition for impeachment. If the threat was just braggadocio, there's not enough here to post. GCG (talk) 15:45, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
It is a process that has been set up and voted, then it happened, and is sufficiently relevant. Other versions of Wikipedia named it as news. – User:Ravenanation'
Oppose. Doesn't seem to be significantly in the news. We didn't post a recent failed vote to impeach Donald Trump which also was minimally in the news. It also doesn't seem like this vote was technically on the merits of impeachment, if I understand it right. 331dot (talk) 16:02, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
It is different from the impeachment of Donald Trump, this is a process that has been set up and voted on and not a proposal. – User:Ravenanation'
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The European Court of Justice (ECJ) rules that Uber is officially a transport company and not a digital service, thus requiring it to accept stricter regulation and licensing within the European Union. The case arose after Uber was told to obey local taxi rules in Barcelona. (The Guardian)
16-year-old Palestinian Ahed Tamimi, daughter of Bassem al-Tamimi, is arrested on December 19 in a pre-dawn raid on her home in Nabi Salih by the Israeli army after being suspected of assaulting an Israeli soldier. Later in the day, her mother Nariman is allegedly arrested too when visiting her daughter at a police station. (Al Jazeera)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: I'd previously nominated this article in the summer after the legislation was first proposed and the EU threatened to initiate Article 7. At the time it did not pass for ITN as it was determined a mere threat to initiate Article 7 was not newsworthy and it should be held until the Article 7 process actually was initiated. Edit - to clarify, the Article 7 process has not run its course. The newsworthiness here is that this is the first time in the history of the European Union that this extraordinary step - characterized by one of the sources as "the nuclear option" - has been formally initiated. Chetsford (talk) 06:38, 21 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, that's correct. There is a three-part process for suspension of a state's franchise: first, a proposal to declare a "clear breach" must be tabled; second, a "clear breach" must be declared; third, the European Council can suspend voting rights. Currently the Commission has tabled a proposal to declare a "clear breach" which is the first time in the history of the EU this has occurred. Chetsford (talk) 10:29, 21 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose – for now. As Brandmeister notes, it's only the beginning of the EC "clear breach" process, which reportedly may take up to three months. Also promulgate is not a synonym for enact or implement; it means basically to announce or propose. But Duda has signed the bills into law. Sca (talk) 15:15, 21 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The president of Poland first signs a bill and then, by decree, orders its promulgation in the official gazette which must occur prior to its effective date. This is the final step in lawmaking and is what has occurred. In practice, this is a one-step process and, because the gazette is itself a state institution, the president is in fact promulgating via the gazette and in common parlance in most parliamentary republics in the non-English speaking world this is what is said instead of the absolutely literal "the such-and-such legal journal promulgated". However, I'd be fine substituting the equally correct - albeit less specific - signs for promulgates if it's less likely to create confusion. (Implementation is a different matter entirely and pertains to the functional application and enforcement of a law, which is accomplished by the civil service or the responsible ministers, or the two in concert. Enactment is the whole process of lawmaking from parliamentary resolution to presidential signature to promulgation by presidential order; the president alone cannot enact an law.) Chetsford (talk) 16:31, 21 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, I see that is an additional meaning of promulgate. In my experience, though, in the English-speaking world it's more typically used in a context which doesn't mean finalize or enact. (Example: "The border changes promulgated at the Potsdam Conference." In that case, they were proposed by Stalin at Potsdam but final enactment was supposed to have occurred at postwar peace conference that never was held. The new borders weren't recognized de jure by the West until decades later.) Sca (talk) 17:18, 21 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support per the previous nomination. If we say wait till this happens, and it happens, we shouldn't be changing our minds either. Besides, Brexit was about invoking article 50, and we've posted multiple blurbs on that even though the UK hasn't actually left the EU yet. Banedon (talk) 00:21, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Houthis say that they launched a Volcano H-2 missile targeting at the Al-Yamamah Palace in the Saudi capital city of Riyadh. According to the Saudis, the missile was intercepted south of Riyadh and caused no casualties. (Reuters)
The Secretary-General of the OIC, Yousef Al-Othaimeen, says the repeated launch of ballistic missiles at Saudi Arabia served to confirm the Houthis' "hostility and criminality" and further claimed "The Houthis are trying to destabilize Saudi Arabia and the entire region." (Anadolu Agency)
An NTSB spokesperson says that preliminary indications are that the train was travelling at 80 miles per hour (130 km/h) on a 30 miles per hour (48 km/h) track. The Positive train control (PTC) safety system was not operational on the train, says Amtrak. (BBC)
A tour bus crash in Mexico leaves at least 12 people dead and 18 injured. The cause of the crash is under investigation. (The Washington Post)
The United StatesHouse of Representatives passes the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017 by 227 votes to 203. After being sent to the United States Senate for a vote, the Senate's parliamentarian found that several provisions in the House bill violated Senate rules, which forced the House of Representatives to call a second vote on an altered version of the legislation that has the violating provisions removed. The second vote by the House of Representatives is expected to take place on December 20, 2017. (NBC News)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Nominator's comments: Note that this is not just a belief that NK was behind it (as was made in the month-so out from the attack) but a formal declaration, that they are backing with yet-public evidence shared with the other countries, with at least the US expecting the UN and other countries to help take action (read, sanctions) against NK for this. Masem (t) 16:51, 19 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Added comment I'm working to try to remove a lot of duplication in the article (I think there was a merge some time in the past, so a lot of info duplicated). But the sourcing is there, it's more a preliminary quality issue I'm fixing. --Masem (t) 17:24, 19 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I do agree that these are claims, and until their reports are made public, difficult to see how confident they are, but it's not so much whether there is the smoking gun, but that this is a formal accusation by multiple countries towards NK, which is geared to try to urge UN to take some type of action. --Masem (t) 17:51, 19 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose unless something actually happens. To those who have been paying attention, this whole saga involving North Korea has been all hat and no cattle. Officials talk a big game about ratcheting up sanctions or taking "unilateral action" but it never amounts to anything.--WaltCip (talk) 17:53, 19 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose China and Russia are practically their only trading partners, if they aren't onboard with sanctions it is just so much saber rattling. --Klaun (talk) 19:31, 19 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Unless you're implying that Donald Trump has authority over other countries such as the UK, Japan and Australia, that's plainly incorrect. Banedon (talk) 22:34, 19 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
If world leaders held themselves as sacrosanct and above critique, even on en.wiki, we would be in a dystopia. Or the country who is integral to this nomination. Stormy clouds (talk) 22:48, 19 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Though in all seriousness, I don't feel that, even if true, the fact that North Korea was behind WannaCry is worthy of ITN. Both the attack and the revelation of whodunnit, especially given the inability of the West to impose punishments, are of minimal lasting impact. Ran riot earlier in the year, and got posted then. Does not need a reiteration now, in my view. So, I'll stick with oppose. Stormy clouds (talk) 22:40, 19 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support on the one hand there's little the US can do to change NK's behavior [11]. On the other hand if indeed there's little that can be done, then there's not likely to be more significant developments. If this is worth posting at all, now is the time to do so. This is also the collective action of multiple different countries, plus it's seeing lots of coverage (Googling for "Wannacry" turns up pages upon pages of results within the past 24 hours). I'm willing to support this. Banedon (talk) 22:34, 19 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose is this an act of war? The US and UK are acting as if it's an act of qvetch. When two permanent UN Security Council seat holders and nuclear powers do nothing, it's not news. μηδείς (talk) 01:55, 20 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, stale. According to the article, the North Koreans have been the main suspects since June. Because this accusation does not get the world much closer to the truth, this news is stale. Abductive (reasoning)06:13, 20 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
References
Nominators often include links to external websites and other references in discussions on this page. It is usually best to provide such links using the inline URL syntax [http://example.com] rather than using <ref></ref> tags, because that keeps all the relevant information in the same place as the nomination without having to jump to this section, and facilitates the archiving process.
For the times when <ref></ref> tags are being used, here are their contents:
In the news toolbox
.jpg)
) other considerations. Tlhslobus (talk) 09:33, 24 December 2017 (UTC)
.jpg)
Done - Stormy clouds (talk) 16:12, 22 December 2017 (UTC)
