This candidates page is integrated with the daily pages of Portal:Current events. A light green header appears under each daily section - it includes transcluded Portal:Current events items for that day. You can discuss ITN candidates under the header.
Blurbs are one-sentence summaries of the news story.
Altblurbs, labelled alt1, alt2, etc., are alternative suggestions to cover the same story.
A target article, bolded in text, is the focus of the story. Each blurb must have at least one such article, but you may also link non-target articles.
Articles in the Ongoing line describe events getting continuous coverage.
The Recent deaths (RD) line includes any living thing whose death was recently announced. Consensus may decide to create a blurb for a recent death.
All articles linked in the ITN template must pass our standards of review. They should be up-to-date, demonstrate relevance via good sourcing and have at least an acceptable quality.
Nomination steps
Make sure the item you want to nominate has an article that meets our minimum requirements and contains reliable coverage of a current event you want to create a blurb about. We will not post about events described in an article that fails our quality standards.
Find the correct section below for the date of the event (not the date nominated). Do not add sections for new dates manually - a bot does that for us each day at midnight (UTC).
Create a level 4 header with the article name (==== Your article here ====). Add (RD) or (Ongoing) if appropriate.
Then paste the {{ITN candidate}} template with its parameters and fill them in. The news source should be reliable, support your nomination and be in the article. Write your blurb in simple present tense. Below the template, briefly explain why we should post that event. After that, save your edit. Your nomination is ready!
You may add {{ITN note}} to the target article's talk page to let editors know about your nomination.
The better your article's quality, the better it covers the event and the wider its perceived significance (see WP:ITNSIGNIF for details), the better your chances of getting the blurb posted.
When the article is ready, updated and there is consensus to post, you can mark the item as (Ready). Remove that wording if you feel the article fails any of these necessary criteria.
Admins should always separately verify whether these criteria are met before posting blurbs marked (Ready). For more guidance, check WP:ITN/A.
If satisfied, change the header to (Posted).
Where there is no consensus, or the article's quality remains poor, change the header to (Closed) or (Not posted).
Sometimes, editors ask to retract an already-posted nomination because of a fundamental error or because consensus changed. If you feel the community supports this, remove the item and mark the item as (Pulled).
Voicing an opinion on an item
Format your comment to contain "support" or "oppose", and include a rationale for your choice. In particular, address the notability of the event, the quality of the article, and whether it has been updated.
Pick an older item to review near the bottom of this page, before the eligibility runs out and the item scrolls off the page and gets abandoned in the archive, unused and forgotten.
Review an item even if it has already been reviewed by another user. You may be the first to spot a problem, or the first to confirm that an identified problem was fixed. Piling on the list of "support!" votes will help administrators see what is ready to be posted on the Main Page.
Tell about problems in articles if you see them. Be bold and fix them yourself if you know how, or tell others if it's not possible.
Add simple "support!" or "oppose!" votes without including your reasons. Similarly, curt replies such as "who?", "meh", or "duh!" are not helpful. A vote without reasoning means little for us, please elaborate yourself.
Oppose an item just because the event is only relating to a single country, or failing to relate to one. We post a lot of such content, so these comments are generally unproductive.
Accuse other editors of supporting, opposing or nominating due to a personal bias (such as ethnocentrism). We at ITN do not handle conflicts of interest.
Comment on a story without first reading the relevant article(s).
Syrian rebels, who have benefited from the "covert" CIA military aid program, say they have not been officially informed of the U.S. decision to stop this aid, and add that its full impact depends on whether U.S. allies Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and Turkey continue to support their fight. A Free Syrian Army commander warns this decision risks triggering the collapse of the moderate opposition. (Reuters)
Article needs updating The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Support Not sure if I can vote because I'm the updater, but the article is well sourced at this pre-results stage and I will work on the article when the results become known. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 04:52, 20 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Amid a stalemate between India and China over Doklam, disputed between the latter and Bhutan, China renews a call for India to withdraw its troops from Doklam. It follows reports claiming China held live firing drills in the region. (Arab News)
South Korea plans to establish a national memorial day (set to be celebrated on every 14 August) to remember and honor the country's comfort women victims. (The Korea Times)
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: A bit short, but a start. I created the article today. His obituaries describe him as a "legend", "giant" and "icon" of Algerian music. Zigzig20s (talk) 01:32, 20 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support Article well sourced and I do believe (can be wrong) that size of the article does not matter as long as it covers the basic notability of the subject. I believe that the article did cover it well, though a little expanding wouldn't hurt. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 04:50, 20 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
A shrinking glacier in Switzerland has revealed two frozen bodies believed to be of a couple who went missing in 1942 and had never been found, despite extensive searches. Swiss authorities said that a DNA test will be conducted in several days' time. (BBC News)
A two stage attack targeting police kills 5 officers and wounds 11 in the city of el-Arish. A later roadside bomb south of the city wounds a further 6 officers. (ABC News)
The White House tells U.S. Congress that Iran is complying with its nuclear deal, and promises to impose new sanctions on Iran's ballistic missile program. (ABC News)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Nominator's comments: The Russian hacking scandal has been a major part of the US news for months now. For any national news outlet in the US, the main headline for any given day will be, just as likely as not, something about Donald Trump and the Russians. The news coverage, especially the 24-hour cable channels, is beginning to match the coverage given to Watergate (before the hearings) almost 50 years ago. RoyGoldsmith (talk) 17:45, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Strong oppose It has been going on since Nov , and is a story that is being pushed by the media that is hostile to Trump. (and I myself do not care for Trump, but I absolutely detest how the media's behaving in all this). It's all still allegations, nothing has been verified, and what is "news" (such as the recent bits about Trump Jr's meeting) is very much hostile. If there is a point where the situation is resolved, then we can post it, but definitely not now. This is the type of topic that WP does not do a good job at covering per WP:RECENTISM and WP:NOT#NEWS, and definitely should not be ITN ongoing. --MASEM (t) 18:18, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Oppose Nothing new under the sun. Potentially "fake news"! POV-pushing. If anything comes out of the investigation, perhaps we could post it--but right now nothing's happening. It's just clickbait and fundraising malarkey.Zigzig20s (talk) 18:29, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose It's a very real and important story, in spite of all of the attempts to discredit it, but it could be continuing in this manner for a long time, probably too long for ongoing. If and when we start getting closer to impeachment, or charges against Kushner/Manafort/Flynn/Don Jr./etc., I could support a blurb or ongoing. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:49, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Why is this getting nominated now? Instead you should have participated in the earlier discussions when it was actually relevant and timely. Also I do not agree that this wouldn't be the content that WP is doing a good job at - it's better than all the news organizations that I know of in properly and neutrally informing the public about this and there are several measures for protecting against misinformation and the like such as the levels of page protection. Also I'd oppose inclusion as Ongoing instead of a shortly appearing, elaborative and non-implicative blurb at the time that it's most appropriate. This time is over now. --Fixuture (talk) 18:53, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This should be reopened. One might argue whether this should get posted or not, but at the least the discussion should have remained open for a reasonable amount of time. This topic is in the news, globally, with new developments emerging in the last few days. Which indicates that notwithstanding a previous nomination (a while ago it seems), this (re-)nomination had merit. Deserving of a serious discussion (i.e. not the shrill nonsense by Zigzig20), not a closure after just 77 minutes. Poor admin decision. 2A02:A451:8B2D:1:BC43:B2E7:865E:F5E7 (talk) 19:55, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry. I wouldn't have mentioned it except that I'm new at this. I ran a few searches of the archives and turned up nothing. Where can we find articles that have already been turned down for ITN? When was the last time this article was turned down before this iteration? --RoyGoldsmith (talk) 21:13, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The last time was May, about Comey's firing. The search box is in the expandable box just under "Suggestions", though I think hiding that box is not helpful, it should be visible. I will see to fixing that. --MASEM (t) 21:22, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
You can find them in the archives. Here: 1, 2, 3. Concerning early closure I agree with that and here I suggested establishing a minimum amount of time nominations are guaranteed open debate. (Maybe you can get this going?) While there might sometimes be good reasons for early closure such as saving time and efforts of people and preempting canvassing or alike I don't think they outweigh the benefits and need for proper discussion-times (even if that's just 1 day) − especially when considering ways short open-discussion-times could be exploited or result in biased outcomes and ways we could manage problems such as parties canvassing participants (I'm not implying that this would be a major problem as of right now). --Fixuture (talk) 22:44, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Fixuture: As I've just posted to the talk page here, minimum discussion times have been rejected in the past. If a user new to the discussion believes in good faith that the nomination merits posting, they can reopen an discussion like the above. You are again seeing a problem that isn't here as far as I know(with regards to canvassing for a brief discussion). 331dot (talk) 07:25, 18 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The box specifically says "The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it.". So no, discussions cannot be reopened or at least that is very strongly discouraged. Specific to this nomination, I would hope that the closing editor will reopen and allow the discussion to take its course, all given that this nomination has merit and deserves consideration. 81.204.120.137 (talk) 15:51, 18 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
A stalemate between China and India leads to fears that the ongoing stand-off over Doklam in the Himalayas, disputed by Bhutan, may continue into the winter. It comes after rumors that Indian National Security Adviser Ajit Doval may travel to Beijing later this month. (Economic Times)
Thousands of Poles have held rallies in the capital Warsaw and other cities to condemn a controversial reform of the judiciary. Protestors claim the bill, passed by the Senate on Saturday, will erode judges' independence and undermine democracy. (BBC)
In tennis, Roger Federer of Switzerland defeats Marin Čilić of Croatia 6–3, 6–1, 6–4 to win the men's singles tournament. Federer wins his eighth Wimbledon singles title, surpassing William Renshaw and Pete Sampras for the most by a male player; becomes the oldest player in the Open Era to win the Wimbledon men's singles; becomes the first player to win the men's singles at Wimbledon without losing a set since Björn Borg in 1976; and extends his Open Era record for Grand Slam men's singles titles to 19. (BBC Sport)
[Closed] Chinese-American student's 10-year prison sentence in Iran
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Oppose I also saw it in the news, but it does not seem important enough for ITN. Besides, the Iranian court has allowed him to appeal the sentence, so it's not the final verdict. -Zanhe (talk) 21:34, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
CNN can publish whatever they want or advocate for whatever they want. Iran is not a fan of the US and detains Americans not infrequently. 331dot (talk) 23:01, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
How many are there? CNN suggests there are only 3 plus Xiyue Wang. If you are able to provide us with a reliable third-party source on the number of US citizens currently detained in Iran, please let us know. Facts please?Zigzig20s (talk) 23:09, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
No, I'm sorry. These links are about the two Namazis and Shahini (who are counted in the CNN article), and the journalists were released (also mentioned in the CNN article). If there are only three US citizens currently detained in Iran (including Xiyue Wang) and only a fourth one awaiting appeal, it's not "not unusual".Zigzig20s (talk) 23:30, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I mean that in general Iran is quick to detain Americans, not just at this specific time. There was the 10 US sailors a few years ago, and I think some British ones before that. If you see it as unusual, fair enough, I don't and have nothing else to add. Thanks 331dot (talk) 23:37, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
No but anyone is welcome to expand articles. If you think it's too short, you can expand it. Or someone else will. Thank you.Zigzig20s (talk) 01:01, 18 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Nominator's comments: First time I nominate an article and English isn't my mother tongue, so the blurb might need slight rewording. This is an important event in the context of the current Venezuelan protests and constitutional crisis, as well as the only electoral rejection of the Assembly (since referendum to ask for the approval or rejection of the Assembly didn't take place previously). It should also be noted that because of the results the National Assembly, the institution that organized the process, announced today the election of new judges of the Supreme Court and a national strike. Jamez42 (talk) 20:10, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Question. The article states that the referendum is "unofficial"(which suggests the government is not involved) but it was authorized by the National Assembly. Do you mean that it is "nonbinding"?(as in only advisory)? 331dot (talk) 20:17, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: There was a similar question in the talk page of the article and it's something that needs to be clarified in the content of the article, something I'd like to help with both in the Spanish and English versions. In short, it is binding for the opposition controlled Assembly but nonbinding for the government, including the Executive, Judiciary and Electoral branches. Opposition spokespersons argue that article 70 of our constitution states explicitly that a "popular consultation" is a method of participation and that citizen decisions are binding, and that the consultation is organized based on articles 333 and 350, which calls upon civil disobedience. However, government officials dismiss the consultation, even going as far to call it as a "poll", and have defined it as a plebiscite that is not in the constitution and that the last time a plebiscite took place was under the dictatorship of Marcos Pérez Jiménez. The binding status of the referendum is part of several arguments made by government and opposition alike and is an example of the current polarization that the country is going through. The Constitutional Assembly won't be cancelled, but the National Assembly will continue to organize protests and legal actions based in the results. --Jamez42 (talk) 20:45, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose The plebiscite went 98% against Maduro. That's a sure sign of an invalid result. Especially because Maduro's vote on July 30 will go 98% in favor of him. We posted dissolution of the assembly in March. We also posted and pulled an item on protests in April. There's a story to tell, and it probably belongs in ITN, but not sure this is how we will frame it. GreatCaesarsGhost (talk) 20:18, 18 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment The popular consultation went 98% because it was summoned by the opposition, but it doesn't mean it is an invalid result: it was supervised and assisted by several Venezuelan NGOs, a commission of five former foreign presidents and five rectors of different universities. The only reason it's "unofficial" it's because it wasn't organized by the Electoral branch, but international reactions and petitions to stop the Constitutional Assembly, including from the UN and the European Union, prove its relevancy. In any case I understand it may not be the best way to portray the current situation in the INT and it may be better to wait until the July 30 election. I'd like to suggest the article is included in the current events portal if possible. --Jamez42 (talk) 00:58, 19 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Weak support the concept, weak oppose this nomination - Venezuela's going through a defining moment in its history, so I feel something from the ongoing crisis should be on ITN. This, however, is skirting the edge. It's an unofficial referendum, the voter sample is clearly extremely biased, and the turnout is less than 25% 40% of the total Venezuela population. I would prefer to put something like 2017 Venezuelan protests in ongoing, but that's unfortunately not going to happen. Banedon (talk) 01:10, 19 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Striking 25% since it's clearly wrong (thanks Jamez42). 40% is much more respectable, but still not sufficient. I might consider supporting if it's 51%. Banedon (talk) 04:21, 19 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I dislike posting a comment for the third time because I feel I'm overdefending the nomination, to put it in some way, and that it may be annoying, but as a Venezuelan I think this is a landmark event and it would help to illustrate the evolution and the future of the crisis: After announcing the results, the National Assembly declared that today it would start nominating new judges for the Supreme Court and create tomorrow a new "government of national unity" (I apologize for the Spanish sources), asides from summoning a national strike this Thursday. Of course, these events don't have an article on their own and would need to develop a whole new series of events to deserve one, like the new opposition cabinet, for instance. Maybe the blurb could be changed accordingly to mention the events and said article; After the unofficial referendum in Venezuela, the National Assembly names new judges of the Supreme Tribunal and creates a new government, for example.
I also wanted to clarify that only 19,805,002 persons of the population are in the Electoral Registry of Venezuela, or in other words, the people that are allowed to vote, including being over 18 years old and having a Venezuelan nationality. In an official election this would mean a 39% turnout. Although low, this is more than half (53%) of the voters that participated in the last elections in 2015 (14,385,349 voters), almost as many votes received by the opposition that won the election (7,728,025 votes) and more than the votes received by the opposition candidate in the last presidential election (7,363,980), even though there was only a third of the voting centers of an official election, the electoral campaign didn't have any exposure in the television or radio networks and that the referendum was organized in two weeks. Once again I'm sorry if I'm being too insistent in any way, I understand that there are reasons to disregard the results and there's still a week left to see how events develop, but the most important part of the referendum is that it marks a new phase of the protests and the crisis, the so called "Zero Hour". --Jamez42 (talk) 03:27, 19 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose - I think as things develop, we will see a more notable event in the news. Though this drew plenty of international attention, it is so controversial and unofficial that there will always be those skeptical of the event.--ZiaLater (talk) 03:20, 19 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. This is all rather complex and took some time to disentangle, but as far as I can tell this poll isn't recognised by anyone except the opposition and won't lead to any concrete action. The wording and turnout sample are clearly highly biased. This is obviously part of a power struggle within Venezuela; that may well be worth posting at some point, but this poll isn't it. The article doesn't really help to clarify the situation for readers unfamiliar with the story, and promoting it on the Main Page would be a POV nightmare. Maybe if/when the new constitution is put to a referendum, or enacted without one, we could feature the story in ITN. Modest Geniustalk10:23, 19 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: The X Games are one of the biggest extreme sports competition held in the world. Earlier this year, I nominated the Winter X Games for ITN after doing quite a bit of updating to the article, and I have done the same now. While the X Games are obviously not the Olympics, a majority of the summer events are not events at the Olympics so this is the top event for these athletes/this is the premier event for these sports. For anyone confused with the blurb (there was a little confusion when the Winter games were posted), the United States won the most gold medals, hence why they are featured in the blurb. Andise1 (talk) 00:19, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I looked back over previous such articles (last year's doesn't exist) and discovered that the event was rated of "low importance" to the Dallas Texas wikiproject. If that's the case, I'm not really sure why it would be of sufficient importance to the English-speaking world to feature amongst the top five news stories across the globe. The Rambling Man (talk) 05:58, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
If such an event is considered of little to no importance to the host US state city, I'm not sure why anyone else would be bothered. That we don't have an article for the last running is somewhat indicative, and as such I oppose based on the low importance of the event. I didn't see it anywhere near the BBC Sport homepge (for example) whereas I did see Wimbledon, British Grand Prix, Tour de France, Mayweather/Connor, Teat cricket, women's Euro 2017, US Women's Golf etc... And fewer than a quarter of the medal recipients appear to be notable enough for an article. Is this really significant? The Rambling Man (talk) 09:16, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Dallas is a city, not a state. A lot happens in a city, let alone a state, and it's no particular surprise to me that it's of low importance to that particular WikiProject. After all, WP:LONDON has assessed the Boat Races 2017 as "low importance" but that's equally irrelevant. Your other arguments about notability of participants, level of coverage etc are stronger, so focus on those! BencherliteTalk09:55, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
That's less likely than Basque independence, Catalonian independence and maybe Argentine Falklands though. Anti-EU parts of your nation becoming a full UN sovereign and giving the nukes and security council seat and part of the military to the rump UK might be more likely. I don't think Texas is going to become a sovereign nation again. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 17:35, 18 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose(and I'm not convinced the winter ones merited posting) This event is owned and was created by ESPN to generate ratings and competitors participate to win money aside from medals. It's basically a TV show like American Ninja Warrior; they have these every year unlike other multisport events(and these are not mainstream sports but "extreme" sports). 331dot (talk) 10:07, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Regardless of it being the highest level of event for these sports, if we posted the highest level of every minor niche sport, ITN would be overrun. Also, it hardly appears to be covered in mainstream media. Black Kite (talk)17:11, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Support per notability. Additionally, he died more recently than the other names in the "Recent deaths" box, having passed on the 16th, while the current most recent passing shown in that box is Martin Landau, who died on the 15th. –Matthew - (talk)01:21, 19 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@1779Days:: He is notable no doubt but the article still needs sourcing from the 1990s and I believe 2000s subsections in the Career section. Some entire large paragraphs don't even have sources. That shouldn't be an issue though since this man is heavily well known finding sources shouldn't be an issue, but the article is in not the best shape for posting due to lack of citations thus why adding refimprove template for the 1990s and 2000s section was needed. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 05:36, 20 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Weak Support Yes, entertainment news is typically not ITN, but DW has international appeal, and this being the first female in the lead role is unique. --MASEM (t) 16:31, 16 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Not every recasting of a notable role would merit posting, but this role has such wide notability and is so long-running that this sort of change meets the bar IMO. 331dot (talk) 16:37, 16 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Fuzheado: Global significance is not required; if it were, very little would be posted. I also disagree with your premise, Doctor Who is known worldwide, and I say that as a non fan. 331dot (talk) 19:03, 16 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Weak support – Riding a very fine line with WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS and/or WP:ADVOCACY; however, it is indeed true entertainment news is almost completely exclusive to awards and deaths. Doctor Who has a large global fanbase and this appears to be a significant change of pace for casting. This appears to be part of the ongoing trend/push for prominent female roles in TV and movies rather than something novel or unexpected. Long story short, I don't see any harm including this but am a bit hesitant with singling out this one show. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 16:55, 16 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
*Neutral - leaning on the fence here. Yes, this is big news and will have significant worldwide impact. However, one could very reasonably argue that, if this were posted, the fact that Game of Thrones is back again tonight would also be of note and worthy of a blurb given its worldwide impact. Stormy clouds (talk) 17:23, 16 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
You're missing my point... Have they put the story on their front page? ITN is on Wikipedia's front page, for God's sake. STSC (talk) 12:54, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, take a look here, where you'll see she's very much featured on the front page of 85% of all major British newspapers at least. The Rambling Man (talk)
Support but blurb should note she is the first woman in the role. This is an internationally watched and very popular and long-running show, and this role always attracts scads of media interest when it is periodically recast. -Kudzu1 (talk) 17:41, 16 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose: nowhere near global media coverage. A re-casting in a TV show isn't front-page of Wikipedia noteworthy. DrStrausstalk 17:46, 16 July 2017 (UTC)Neutral, leaning support: I pretty much echo Cyclonebiskit's views. Notability is fine but the blurb needs to be worded carefully to avoid WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS. DrStrausstalk18:12, 16 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
People can and will find her article whether or not it's linked from the front page. That's not a reason to post this. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:57, 16 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - entertainment news is popular for sure, but in the big scheme of things, it's simply too trivial by ITN standards. -Zanhe (talk) 18:13, 16 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose ITN is not meant for BBC casting press releases. This is the equivalent a sci-fi version of James Bond. Over the past two decades, only two have officially played Bond yet this is the fifth person to take this role. Quality-wise, her stage and radio credits are unsourced. Half of her filmography is also unreferenced, since her BFI page does not list minor roles or short films. And a pitiful one-line update sums up this event: Whittaker becomes the 13th person to play popular TV character, also happens to be first female. Woo? Fuebaey (talk) 18:26, 16 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose both on merits and article quality. This is far below the level of importance we generally look for in nominations. This ranks right up there with the latest updates from "Game of Thrones." And as noted above there are some significant shortcoming in the article, including glaring gaps in referencing. -Ad Orientem (talk) 18:33, 16 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support the BBC's flagship television series; normally not newsworthy but the fact someone female will be playing the role is, for whatever reasons, huge. It would be completely ridiculous not to include it, especially as the article is decent. Aiken D20:46, 16 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose As much as I like Doctor Who (though I'll admit I'm behind on the current season), I don't see how this is significant enough to be on the front page. That said, if it does get posted, the blurb should mention that this first female Doctor Who otherwise the blurb doesn't make sense unless you're familiar with the show. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 21:05, 16 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. A minuscule percentage of the human race/English-speaking world/Wikipedia readers watch Doctor Who or care about this topic. Even as a viewer of the show myself, I have no interest in seeing this story here. Abductive (reasoning) 22:07, 16 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Disposable entertainment news getting undue attention because the show's carrier is also a news behemoth and can thus use its news outlet as an instrument for promoting the show. The chief reasons given for posting this appear to be that Doctor Who is very popular, and that a female was cast - but so what? This is so far from being a milestone for women that nobody is even bothering to seriously argue that, which makes this no more significant or interesting than who gets cast in Game of Thrones, Star Trek, Star Wars, or any other wildly popular entertainment franchise. - Lvthn13 (talk) 23:40, 16 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. If we were to post this, casting changes at the CCTV New Year's Gala would deserve to be made an ITN/R. Considered the most popular TV program in the world, its average audience of 700-800 million dwarfs the 10 million for Doctor Who. -Zanhe (talk) 23:49, 16 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I'm equally disappointed you're calling it a "pointy threat". It's like saying anyone who opposed the RD reform should not make any RD nominations of people who would've failed the old criteria, or it's a "pointy threat". Have you ever considered that I'm going to nominate this for ITNR because I value consistency? Banedon (talk) 03:11, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Then I take you at your word but I call them as I see them, as we all do. "We must post X because we posted Y" is a poor argument unless you support your proposal on the merits. 331dot (talk) 03:21, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Do you have any evidence for your suspicions? That seems to be another argument that boils down to IDONTLIKEIT. According to Doctor Who the show "has been broadcast internationally outside of the United Kingdom since 1964"(how many programs can you say that about) and that it "has been or is currently broadcast weekly in more than 50 countries"(contratry to your "most people don't know" argument) 331dot (talk) 01:50, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Read the article. "At the time of Season 19's broadcast in 1982 the show was being watched by a global audience of 98 million, 88 million in 38 foreign countries, and an average of ten million in the United Kingdom." Then compare world population. I can support this if we set some kind of arbitrary standard on number of people affected, and that number is greater than 10 million. But we didn't post the iPhone 8 release (~300 million active iPhones) or Windows 10 release (1.25 billion Windows machines in the world). These two events also reached every country in the world, much more than Dr Who does. Comparatively, this is insignificant. Banedon (talk) 02:09, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I've been watching this show religiously since 1978. I cried when Sarah Jane Smith Died, and Romana I. But it's a SHOW. We don't do cast changes at ITN. μηδείς (talk) 03:20, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I understand both sides. I do understand and see the significance of Doctor Who having its first female Doctor especially seeing how the series itself is a cultural icon, but I don't think (correct me if I'm wrong) this is suitable for Wikipedia: In the News since it is a show after all and it is a casting change in summary. This is, me personally, seeing a show being nominate for a possible blurb in Doctor Who. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 03:25, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - An announcement about cast change on a TV show does not qualify as one of the top half dozen news stories in the world. I also suspect newsworthiness is mainly limited to majority-white, English speaking countries, of which there are only a handful. Adpete (talk) 05:51, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose the only people this is really "news" to are those kinds of people to whom we should not be pandering. This is a perfectly logical sequitur in casting these days, and as we all know that Doctor Who is an alien and regenerates periodically, this is of no real newsworthiness other than a "oh?". Perhaps try for DYK. The Rambling Man (talk) 06:00, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. If we post first female in a particular fictional role, then would we post the first black, Asian etc. in a typically white role? It's not real news. Jim Michael (talk) 09:19, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Jim Michael: It depends on the role(as is the case with any posting here). If Idris Elba were cast as James Bond,[5] I think that would be big news and merit posting. Some very few roles have the interest and widespread knowledge to merit this sort of attention. For not being "real news" this is making news. 331dot (talk) 09:27, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@LukeSurl: Not to debate that here- I understand doing so but I probably wouldn't support it unless it was a first of some kind(like Elba or even a woman). 331dot (talk) 10:17, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, it's the minimum requirement, not "part" of it. And yes, globally significant, Doctor Who is broadcast globally, the story is being reported globally, RY here we come! The Rambling Man (talk) 09:41, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
For what it's worth, I resolved to nominate this before the announcement happened. I think James Bond and The Doctor are the two regularly-re-cast roles for which the casting is significant enough for ITN regardless of who takes the role. --LukeSurltc10:15, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support per Pawnking and LukeSurl, it easily falls into the criteria as far as ITN's purpose goes, and there are very few famous creations which continuously get recast *and* that recasting makes significant headlines. James Bond, Dr Who and Batman/Superman/Spiderman being the only ones off-hand I can think of. Dr Who being the only one where that recasting is actually part of the character background itself. Many of the oppose votes above are just 'its not significant enough' which when faced with the many articles around the world covering it, is laughable. Its TV, and its pop culture, but its clearly in the news and of interest to a significant number of people. My question to the above oppose voters (excluding those who have quality concerns) is where were you when the Turkish March for Justice was approved? An event that is largely insignificant to anyone outside Turkey or who is not of Turkish heritage. That you feel the need to deny so strongly its significance, clearly indicates the opposite. Only in death does duty end (talk) 10:28, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Unexciting casting decision in a long-running television programme. That's fine for the tabloids and rolling news channels, but has no real long-term encyclopaedic impacts. ITN is not a showbiz news ticker. Modest Geniustalk12:17, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I would be interested to know if you would ever support an entertainment news story for ITN? This is receiving coverage way outside tabloids and rolling news channels, and we would not be fulfilling the role of a showbiz news ticker but be "helping readers find and quickly access content they are likely to be searching for because an item is in the news" which is part of ITN's purpose. Many people who have heard that a female Doctor has been cast may not know much about Jodie Whittaker or even recall her name.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 12:34, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Can I propose that the article update has to be more substantive than the blurb itself to warrant highlighting it? "Oh, they cast a woman as DW? Let's read more about that...Oh, there's nothing more to read." GreatCaesarsGhost (talk) 12:44, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
One or both nominated events are listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Oppose on lack of prose. While not every match needs a blurb, I would expect these two specific matches have some prose for them. --MASEM (t) 16:41, 16 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Men's Singles final also notable as being a record 8th win for Federer. Dramatic when Cilic broke down and had to take a medical break. Both finals were decisive straight sets wins. So maybe an enhanced blurb would be justified. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:51, 16 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - I would support if the blurb just concentrates on Federer's record 8th title at Wimbledon (beating Pete Sampras' record). STSC (talk) 17:10, 16 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support: I propose an alternative whereby Roger Federer is the linked article and, as STSC says, note that he's won in 2017, thereby surpassing Sampras. DrStrausstalk17:47, 16 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
At least eight people are killed in a stampede at a football stadium in Dakar, Senegal, that started after police used tear gas to break up a fight between the rival teams' fans. (Reuters)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
We generally put the nom on the day of the death, even if the news was delayed a day or so; only if the case that the death was purposely kept quiet by family until they had their chance to mourn or pay respects do we then post on the day the news broke. --MASEM (t) 01:53, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Ready. I've removed the unsourced roles. If anyone has a problem wit this, they should add specific CN tags. Otherwise Landau is quite legendary as a character actor and the lead of Space 1999. μηδείς (talk) 03:50, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I completely disagree that pushing the filmography to a separate page to ignore the sourcing issues there , particularly with how short the bio is and there's no SIZE issue, makes this ready for posting. I expect the filmography to be reasonably sourced. (eg [6]) --MASEM (t) 04:13, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's comments: I read about this on 15 July and have added a new section to the article: Nuclear testing at Bikini Atoll#Recovery of marine ecosystem. This has added 13 new references to the article, and the cumulative update amounts to 592 words (according to DYK check). The content could easily be added to the Bikini Atoll article, too, and either could be the target. The difficulty that I see is whether the recent news coverage is the relevant date or the older coverage from the last few weeks. Any / all comments and suggestions welcome, including for alternative blurbs. Thanks. EdChem (talk) 02:04, 16 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support When I first saw the title of the nomination my immediate reaction was that this was about 60 years stale. However I have been pleasantly surprised with a well sourced and very interesting update to an article that was already both detailed and in reasonably good shape. There are a handful of spots that could use a cite but not enough IMO to stand in the way of posting. Good job to the updating editors. -Ad Orientem (talk) 02:40, 16 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Wait Technically coverage started on July 6 (from USA Today) so this could be considered stale, but also as the USA Today article points out, this is unpublished research, so there's no peer-review confirmation. --MASEM (t) 02:49, 16 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment on "unpublished research": It is true that the findings of the genetic studies are not yet available nor peer reviewed, but the basic facts in the update are observational. In this environment where humans cannot live because all of the biosphere except the air is contaminated with radiation, there is a flourishing marine ecosystem. The evidence is not only the observations of the researchers, it has been broadcast on PBS and substantiated by photographs in some of the noted links - thisRadio New Zealand article includes a 12 minute interview with Stephen Palumbi and a series of photographs. I have yet to add this reference to the article, but I plan to later today (irrespective of how this ITN nomination turns out). Claims about how the ecosystem manages to be healthy in substantial radiation would need publication and peer review, I agree, but that the apparently healthy ecosystem exists despite the radiation is an observation that is substantiated, in my opinion. EdChem (talk) 03:39, 16 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose this is a nice story but it's not really something I'd expect to see on the top five or six global events covered at ITN. It's not so much an event, more a confirmation of what we probably already knew, and has been known for a while, so I'm not even sure of its "newsworthiness". The Rambling Man (talk) 06:03, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: First (and thus far only) female winner of the Fields Medal. She died after fighting breast cancer. The article is in a pretty good state, though a few details might still need citations (including the date of death). Dragons flight (talk) 11:17, 15 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support RD, oppose blurb - Article is fine for RD posting. I don't think this needs a blurb, as the Fields medal is not the same as something like the Nobel, and we should avoid focusing too much on recognizing "first X to win"-type importance for blurbs, if that's the only reason to have a blurb. --MASEM (t) 14:20, 15 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support either of RD or blurb. We should really promote RDs rightaway, as soon as there is consensus for an RD listing. RDs may still be later turned into a blurb as soon as there is consensus for that as well. Can't believe discussion on blurb-or-not is holding up a plain RD listing. --PanchoS (talk) 15:41, 15 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb The Field's medal is essentially as prestigious as the Nobel Prize for other subjects (the Abel Prize is comparable, but is awarded more frequently than the Field's medal). Combined with the fact that she is the first and only female mathematician to receive the prize in 80 years, and the fact that she died very young and while still very active, I am inclined to support a blurb. EternalNomad (talk) 16:29, 15 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I would support a blurb, given the significance of the Fields Medal and the fact that she was the first woman to win one. Howver, no-one has written a blurb so I support a RD. Capitalistroadster (talk) 21:13, 15 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb, wrote blurb I would not go as far as to say that they must need an article on their death to deserve a blurb. Given the magnitude and uniqueness of her achievement, and her young age, I'd say she deserves a blurb. I furthermore posit that opponents should reflect on the well established documentation on gender bias and editing on Wikipedia before making reflexive statements and keep in mind WP:AVERAGE. --Varavour (talk) 01:31, 16 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb First female Fields medalist is a highly important milestone in mathematics. This is also notable as she won the Medal so recently, so her name is recognizable, unlike a Medalist from the 1970s or something. Johnny3887 (talk) 02:51, 16 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment A lot of people above are saying that the Fields cannot be compared to the Nobel (for which Liu Xiaobo was just posted). However, since there is no Nobel for mathematics, there is virtually universal agreement that the Fields is the 'Nobel for mathematics'. I would go further to say that it is more prestigious, because it is awarded four times less frequently and also has an age limit of 40. Johnny3887 (talk) 02:55, 16 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I really caution about using weak consensus to move an RD to a blurb; we already had RD, so it should require a stronger consensus to make that a blurb. --MASEM (t) 03:07, 16 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb - first woman to win the prestigious Fields Medal, which says it all. And she died so suddenly so young. -Zanhe (talk) 04:05, 16 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb - because, in general, I think EternalNomad has made a convincing case (above). That is, I lean more toward posting this as a blurb. Christian Roess (talk) 04:32, 16 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Blurb a mathematician few people have heard of won a prize few people have heard of and has pushed off the Battle of Mosul (2016-17) which is still getting updates. Absolutely absurd. The quest to find some way to bicker about notability is bringing back the same problem RD was created to solve. It needs to stop, now. --CosmicAdventure (talk) 10:23, 16 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose blurb these cavalier postings are beginning to undermine the purpose of such blurbs. This death will be easily covered by a couple of sentences and have no ongoing ramifications whatsoever. Pull it back to RD. The Rambling Man (talk) 11:18, 16 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
(post-posting) Support blurb - untimely death of an extremely significant person in the field of mathematics. As others have noted, the Fields Medal is comparable to a Nobel Prize in terms of its prestige. Being the first and only female winner is a big deal, and her death at such a young age is a very (sadly) newsworthy event. I have a feeling Fields Medals wins have been in the blurb before, and this is a bigger story than a Fields Medal win. Adpete (talk) 11:52, 16 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
(post-posting) Support blurb - Definitely notable enough for Blurb. Untimely death that has been covered nationally and internationally.
Support blurb post-posting support. The possibility of purging a previously published post is a poor basis for berating a blurb. -- Fuzheado | Talk16:09, 16 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb - (post posting support). Besides the many other good reasons already offered by others, the claim above that the blurb should be pulled because "her death will have no ongoing ramifications whatever" (presumably a Crystal Ball is the Reliable Source for this prediction) appears to be wrong already - The Guardian is reporting (here) that, contrary to normal practice, Tehran state newspapers are carrying large pictures of her without a hijab on their front page, and that the relatively liberal President Rohani has tweeted a similar picture of her, while 60 Iranian MPs have called for a change in the law so her daughter can visit Iran without hassle (the daughter has had problems because her mother was married to a non-Muslim). And that's just Iran. Others have said her impact for women in Maths is likely to be comparable to Marie Curie in other sciences (though, given our well-known gender bias, I suspect there'd also be plenty of opposition here to a blurb for Marie Curie if she had died today).Tlhslobus (talk) 04:00, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
If she is really that important, why is her article barely of size for posting to the main page? This is why the RD was perfectly fine, we have very little beyond "only woman to win the Fields" as a reason for a blurb, and that's a really bad reason for posting. This is what concerns me more is that we're posting something that, while of sufficient sourcing quality, fails the expected level of detail one would expect for a person that supposedly has great reknown. Maybe it could have been improved, I don't know, but it should have been before elevating an RD to a blurb. --MASEM (t) 04:12, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, there are going to be articles that can probably be expanded for non-Western winners of international awards like this. RD is a means to not worry about getting these up to GA-quality or the like so that we're not ignoring such deaths. But when we are talking about blurbs, that's a much higher metric that has to be reached, and a woefully short article - which probably can be expanded readily with her winning the Fields, moreso about her death, should have been done before a blurb was considered. --MASEM (t) 05:23, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Concur; there is far too much focus on the importance of the subject and not the quality of article in general for blurbs. There is only one comment on the quality of the article pre-blurb posting that called it "pretty-good." GreatCaesarsGhost (talk) 12:06, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support RD, oppose blurb. Tragic as her death is, this is exactly what we have RD for. This is not a world-changing event with massive implications; instead it is the unfortunate death of a notable person. Ergo this should be on RD, not a blurb. Modest Geniustalk12:20, 17 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Two female tourists are killed and four others are wounded in a mass stabbing attack at a hotel in Hurghada, Red Sea Governorate. The attacker is detained. (BBC)
At least three people are killed and two hospitalized, one in serious condition, from a fire in a condominium tower in the U.S. city of Honolulu, Hawaii. An unknown number of residents are reportedly still trapped in their apartments. (AP via Fox News)(Reuters)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Nominator's comments: Major event: "Muhammad Ahmad Hussein, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem was arested after called on Muslims to march on al-Aqsa and hold Friday prayers wherever they are stopped." This is wery sensitive spot. Jenda H. (talk) 11:40, 14 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Not seeing which part of this is noteworthy. 2 fatalities (please do not include perps to goose the body count) in this area does not seem especially unusual. Is the Mufti's directive or Israeli response unusual? GreatCaesarsGhost (talk) 13:05, 14 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Violence in a known area of high violence (Ala mass gun shootings in the US). Per BBC "Forty-four Israelis and five foreign nationals have been killed in nearly two years of such attacks. At least 255 Palestinians - most of them attackers, Israel says - have also been killed in that period, news agencies report. Others have been killed in clashes with Israeli troops." I don't see what makes this any different. --MASEM (t) 13:32, 14 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support - Article quality is good. Shooting has recieved coverage in national and international media. And has already lead to restrictions and political comments. To say that it is insignificant is just wrong.BabbaQ (talk) 15:08, 14 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support This is an internationally covered incident that is on the front page of most newspapers' websites. Our article is in good condition. Mamyles (talk) 17:11, 14 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Oppose It's possible this could escalate, but at the moment we are talking about two people murdered in a part of the world where religiously motivated homicide is sadly routine. -Ad Orientem (talk) 18:23, 14 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - moreover, only the second alt blurb would be considered factually accurate given agreed upon convention per death tolls. Perp deaths do not count. Stormy clouds (talk) 18:45, 14 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Strongest support possible - Holiest site in Judaism, third holiest site in Islam further more holiest site of Five Eyes countries. As well, Jumu'ah prayer at Al-Masjid al-Aqsa was cancelled because of entry restrictions by the Government of Israel. Worldwide coverage. 65.95.136.96 (talk) 20:35, 14 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The Congressional Budget Office estimates that in ten years the federal budget of U.S. President Donald Trump will produce a $720 billion deficit rather than a $16 billion surplus as claimed by the Trump administration. (Bloomberg)
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Nominator's comments: This is notable news involving head of state, scandal, courtroom, IT, and forensic science. STSC (talk) 18:09, 13 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose as a trivial allegation in the grand scheme of things. Both articles also draw attention to Wikipedia's article about Calibri, which suggests a danger of self-obsession if we post this. BencherliteTalk21:38, 13 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The Calibri finding is not a trivial allegation but a vital piece of evidence; the investigators actually concluded that the document of "2006" was forged based on that finding.[18]STSC (talk) 06:09, 14 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
By making the blurb focus on the font issue, you are trivialising the story. And as Banedon says, this isn't the end of the line anyway. BencherliteTalk07:43, 14 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The wording of the blurb is fully based on the sources; the sources just highlight the surprising Calibri finding in the scandal investigation against a head of state. That is not "trivialising", and it's newsworthy. STSC (talk) 08:25, 14 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
If anything about this story was to be posted - and at present you are the lone voice here - it should be along the lines of "In the Panama Papers case against Nawaz Sharif, the Prime Minister of Pakistan, a court-ordered report concludes that his daughter falsified evidence to the Supreme Court", or "A report commissioned by the Supreme Court of Pakistan during its consideration of allegations of corruption against the Prime Minister, Nawaz Sharif, concludes that he and his family cannot justify their income and assets", or something like that. Absolutely no mention of fonts, because that obscures the conclusions. But these blurbs simply ram home Banedon's point that this is not the end of the story - it is not the Supreme Court finding corruption or forgery, but a step towards possible outcomes. BencherliteTalk08:54, 14 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per the points above, but this is a case where I really wish DYK could accept these type of once-in-a-while oddities of interesting but trivial stories regardless of the article's age. (a type of blurb you read and have to double take to see the humor or irony of it) --MASEM (t) 00:56, 14 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose feels like this is an incremental piece of news. If this leads to a verdict in which this is the crucial piece of deciding evidence, then sure. As it is it's not the end of the story; certainly it's possible the court finds Nawaz Sharif not guilty in spite of this. I don't think this is appropriate to ITN (yet). If there's a verdict that specifically mentions this, then I'll support. Banedon (talk) 06:51, 14 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Article needs updating and sourcing (four "cn" tags at present). RD, certainly, when article is in better shape, but not presently convinced of blurbability. (edit conflict as I was in the process of nominating this for RD but EternalNomad pressed "save changes" before I did...) BencherliteTalk13:42, 13 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support RD (but oppose on present article quality), Neutral on blurb The RD is obvious but too many CNs floating around in the current, article. I'm not sure on the blurb. The fact that he had just been released from prison about 2 weeks prior due to having terminal cancer might make this a blurbable story, but at the same time, this isn't a former world leader or the like who's death is going to be recognized in major fashion across the global. --MASEM (t) 13:43, 13 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
To expand, on reading the NYtimes obit, it is rather important to recognize that he was still a prisoner, only released on medical parole and effectively under close guard while they tried to treat him. I would support a blurb that addressed that facet, and not just that he passed away. --MASEM (t) 14:20, 13 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb. Highly prominent figure, "China's most prominent human rights and democracy advocate" as the BBC describes him[19], extensive worldwide coverage of his death (current main front page story of the BBC for example). --Bjerrebæk (talk) 14:13, 13 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
That may depend where you are: I'm UK-based and the BBC News website's main story here is a Theresa May interview; the Charlie Gard story is also on the top row, with Liu Xiaobo on the left on the second row of stories. BencherliteTalk15:10, 13 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Oppose Article quality is not horrible, but it needs some work before we can post this to the front page. There are some gaps in referencing and there is an orange tag that will need to go away. -Ad Orientem (talk) 14:27, 13 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support RD, oppose blurb, once the article issues are addressed. A notable figure, but nowhere near the world-changing standard we should apply for blurbs. Modest Geniustalk15:04, 13 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb. At the very top level among his field, and even if not, his death seems to be notable itself. Top news from what I see. 331dot (talk) 15:07, 13 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb, once the article is properly cleaned-up. An international pro-democracy icon, whose death is being covered as such. Nsk92 (talk) 15:26, 13 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Any Nobel winner? Every dead physicist, chemist, writer etc who won a Nobel prize deserves a blurb? That's far from being the current view. BencherliteTalk21:40, 13 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose blurb - Nobel laureate status does not guarantee a blurb. Given that the entire European Union was awarded the prize, awardees die daily. I don't think the news worthiness of his death given his imprisonment separates him from the crowd either. Fails to qualify per the self-imposed Mandela-Thatcher-Kohl paradigm. Firm support for RD, however. Stormy clouds (talk) 22:35, 13 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
We're in the minority, but I'm with you. In an RD world, my blurb bar is exceedingly high. German Chancellors and Chinese dissidents don't top it. Neither did Carrie Fisher or that dead boxer. We have to stop with the "Posted X, therefore we should post Y" --CosmicAdventure (talk) 23:38, 13 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
What you are saying is clearly that you don't want to post any death-related blurbs at all, not even for the most notable politicians on the world stage. --Bjerrebæk (talk) 02:35, 14 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
And nobody claimed he was. But the editor above claimed that not even Merkel, the world's (or at least the western world's) most prominent leader as of 2017, would qualify. If not even Merkel would qualify, I don't know of any politician who would. So the issue appears to be a general opposition to posting death-related blurbs at all. --Bjerrebæk (talk) 06:44, 14 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Mandela and Thatcher: Iconic leaders known worldwide well after retirement, state funerlas that generated days of news, subjects of major motion pictures. That's my bar for politicians for example. --CosmicAdventure (talk) 17:46, 14 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thatcher does not rise to the level of Merkel and never did. Nobody called her the leader of the free world or the western world's most important political leader. Mandela's main claim to fame was his Nobel Peace Prize for his anti-apartheid activities, not his later service as president for five years in a country that is a small player on the world stage. Liu, like Mandela, also received the Nobel Peace Prize. So he could be said to be the Chinese equivalent of Mandela. --Bjerrebæk (talk) 05:33, 15 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Uhm, Mandela had the whole first black president of post apartheid South Africa and "Father of the Nation" thing going for him. Merkel is still alive, I have no idea what your problem is there. Thatcherism vs Merkelism? Doesn't seem to be a way to compare. Anyway, I don't mind that Xiaobo pushed off the staggeringly irrelevant rugby game, but the whole point of RD was so that obit blurbs wouldn't push off stories for things that are actually happening. --CosmicAdventure (talk) 19:20, 15 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
"In an RD world, my blurb bar is exceedingly high." I'm of the exact opposite opinion. In a paradigm where everyone gets an RD, a blurb is how we can indicate a notable passing. GreatCaesarsGhost (talk) 12:25, 14 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Not so. (Just to make it clear, I support as well, but for the circumstances surrounding the death, not the importance of the person.) I would hardly call Carrie Fisher, David Bowie, Prince, Nelson Mandela, and Margaret Thatcher "nobodies". See Google results- about 7 million for Liu, about 40 million for Fisher, about 50 million for David Bowie, about 15 million for Margaret Thatcher, about 36 million for Nelson Mandela, about 28 million for Prince. See also David Bowie discography, this, and 92 kB of readable prose size for Nelson Mandela, 63 kB readable prose size for Margaret Thatcher, and 57 kB readable prose size for Prince, versus 25 kB for Liu. These people were definitely not nobodies.-A ladinsane(Channel 2)16:32, 15 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb, he is only the second person in Nobel history who has died with his prize uncollected. The most recent Nobel laureate to die (before Liu) appears to be Alexei Alexeyevich Abrikosov (a Physics laureate in 2003) on March 29 of this year; he was aged 88. So this is by no means a 'common' occurrence, especially considering Liu's much younger age. Johnny3887 (talk) 03:17, 14 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb it's not an usual death of a Nobel laureate. He died in state custody, and it's the first time a Nobel Peace laureate died in custody since Carl von Ossietzky died in 1938 in Nazi Germany.--Stevenliuyi (talk) 04:05, 14 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb Death show's great significance with his death being in custody while being a Nobel Prize winner and article has been in good condition upon his death. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 04:51, 14 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
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