Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates

This page provides a place to discuss new items for inclusion on In the news (ITN), a protected template on the Main Page (see past items in the ITN archives). Do not report errors in ITN items that are already on the Main Page here— discuss those at the relevant section of WP:ERRORS.

This candidates page is integrated with the daily pages of Portal:Current events. A light green header appears under each daily section - it includes transcluded Portal:Current events items for that day. You can discuss ITN candidates under the header.

Nemo Switzerland, represented by Nemo (pictured) with "The Code", wins the Eurovision Song Contest. A series of solar storms impact Earth, creating aurorae seen farther from the poles than usual. Former prime minister of Fiji Frank Bainimarama is sentenced to one year in prison for attempting to pervert the course of justice. Mahamat Déby is declared the winner of the Chadian presidential election. Flooding in Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil, leaves more than 140 people dead and at least 130 others missing. Ongoing: Israel–Hamas war timeline Myanmar civil war Russian invasion of Ukraine timeline War in Sudan timeline Recent deaths: Surjit Patar Jim Simons Sam Rubin Hans Wahlgren Yvonne Mokgoro Sean Burroughs view — page history — related changes — edit

Glossary Blurbs are one-sentence summaries of the news story. Altblurbs, labelled alt1, alt2, etc., are alternative suggestions to cover the same story. A target article, bolded in text, is the focus of the story. Each blurb must have at least one such article, but you may also link non-target articles. Articles in the Ongoing line describe events getting continuous coverage. The Recent deaths (RD) line includes any living thing whose death was recently announced. Consensus may decide to create a blurb for a recent death. All articles linked in the ITN template must pass our standards of review. They should be up-to-date, demonstrate relevance via good sourcing and have at least an acceptable quality. Nomination steps Make sure the item you want to nominate has an article that meets our minimum requirements and contains reliable coverage of a current event you want to create a blurb about. We will not post about events described in an article that fails our quality standards. Find the correct section below for the date of the event (not the date nominated). Do not add sections for new dates manually - a bot does that for us each day at midnight (UTC). Create a level 4 header with the article name (==== Your article here ====). Add (RD) or (Ongoing) if appropriate. Then paste the {{ITN candidate}} template with its parameters and fill them in. The news source should be reliable, support your nomination and be in the article. Write your blurb in simple present tense. Below the template, briefly explain why we should post that event. After that, save your edit. Your nomination is ready! You may add {{ITN note}} to the target article's talk page to let editors know about your nomination. The better your article's quality, the better it covers the event and the wider its perceived significance (see WP:ITNSIGNIF for details), the better your chances of getting the blurb posted. Headers When the article is ready, updated and there is consensus to post, you can mark the item as (Ready). Remove that wording if you feel the article fails any of these necessary criteria. Admins should always separately verify whether these criteria are met before posting blurbs marked (Ready). For more guidance, check WP:ITN/A. If satisfied, change the header to (Posted). Where there is no consensus, or the article's quality remains poor, change the header to (Closed) or (Not posted). Sometimes, editors ask to retract an already-posted nomination because of a fundamental error or because consensus changed. If you feel the community supports this, remove the item and mark the item as (Pulled). Voicing an opinion on an item Format your comment to contain "support" or "oppose", and include a rationale for your choice. In particular, address the notability of the event, the quality of the article, and whether it has been updated. Please do... Pick an older item to review near the bottom of this page, before the eligibility runs out and the item scrolls off the page and gets abandoned in the archive, unused and forgotten. Review an item even if it has already been reviewed by another user. You may be the first to spot a problem, or the first to confirm that an identified problem was fixed. Piling on the list of "support!" votes will help administrators see what is ready to be posted on the Main Page. Tell about problems in articles if you see them. Be bold and fix them yourself if you know how, or tell others if it's not possible. Please do not... Add simple "support!" or "oppose!" votes without including your reasons. Similarly, curt replies such as "who?", "meh", or "duh!" are not helpful. A vote without reasoning means little for us, please elaborate yourself. Oppose an item just because the event is only relating to a single country, or failing to relate to one. We post a lot of such content, so these comments are generally unproductive. Accuse other editors of supporting, opposing or nominating due to a personal bias (such as ethnocentrism). We at ITN do not handle conflicts of interest. Comment on a story without first reading the relevant article(s). Oppose a recurring item here because you disagree with the recurring items criteria. Discuss them here. Use ITN as a forum for your own political or personal beliefs. Such comments are irrelevant to the outcome and are potentially disruptive. Suggesting updates There are two places where you can request corrections to posted items: Anything that does not change the intent of the blurb (spelling, grammar, markup issues, updating death tolls etc.) should be discussed at WP:Errors. Discuss major changes in the blurb's intent or very complex updates as part of the current ITNC nomination.

Suggestions

August 17

Portal:Current events/2018 August 17

August 17, 2018 (2018-08-17) (Friday) Armed conflicts and attacks 2018 Gaza border protests Around 20,000 Palestinians protest near the Israel–Gaza barrier. Medical sources say that Israel Defense Forces killed two people and wounded at least 270 others, 50 of them with live bullets. (Reuters) Disasters and accidents XiamenAir Flight 8667 A Boeing 737 skids off a runway at Ninoy Aquino International Airport, Philippines, while landing in a downpour. All aboard are unharmed but the aircraft is severely damaged with one engine and some of the landing gear being ripped away. (Fox News) International relations United States foreign policy in the Middle East, Syrian Civil War The U.S. Department of State announces that it will redirect approximately US$230 million in stabilization funds for Syria to "other key foreign policy priorities." Career Ambassador James Jeffrey is appointed as "special representative for Syrian engagement". (AP via Chron) Law and crime A high court in İzmir, Turkey, rejects an appeal to release U.S. pastor Andrew Brunson. (USA Today) Amnesty International releases a report accusing Indonesian police of fatally shooting at least 77 suspected petty criminals since January 2018, in the lead-up to the 2018 Asian Games. Authorities insist that lethal force is used when the suspects resist the police. (BBC) Politics and elections Pakistani general election, 2018 Imran Khan, the chairman of the Tehreek-e-Insaf (PTI) party, is elected as the Prime Minister of Pakistan. (Al Jazeera)

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August 16

Portal:Current events/2018 August 16

August 16, 2018 (2018-08-16) (Thursday) Arts and culture 2018 Washington Veterans Day Parade The United States Department of Defense postpones President Donald Trump's military parade, which was slated to take place on 10 November, until 2019. The estimates for the parade's cost have risen from $12 million to $92 million. (ABC News) (Market Watch) Freedom of the press in the United States In coordinated editorials defending press freedom, hundreds of U.S. newspapers rebuke President Donald Trump's repeated accusations that the news media reports "fake news" and that journalists are "enemies of the people". (RTÉ News) American soul singer and songwriter Aretha Franklin dies at the age of 76. (CNN) Business and economy Constellation Brands, the owner of Corona Beer, announces plans to invest in Canadian marijuana producer Canopy Growth. (BBC) Disasters and accidents 2018 California wildfires Analysis shows that a rare fire tornado that barreled into the city of Redding on July 26 during the Carr Fire was responsible for the death of a firefighter as he raced towards a neighborhood in flames. (Los Angeles Times) 2018 Kerala floods Authorities in India say that 350 people are confirmed dead in the heavy floods in Kerala. (Times of India) Law and crime Mexican Drug War The Mexican government announces that they are offering up to MXN$30 million (equivalent to US$1.56 million) for anyone who provides information that leads to the arrest of Nemesio Oseguera Cervantes (alias "El Mencho"), the suspected leader of the Jalisco New Generation Cartel and one of Mexico's most-wanted. (El Universal) The government of DR Congo issues an international arrest warrant for opposition leader Moïse Katumbi, who was hoping to take part in the upcoming December 2018 Congolese general election. (Zambia Reports) Politics and elections Elections in Canada, Premiership of Justin Trudeau Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau dismisses speculation that he would call an early election this fall and states that his government remains focused on renegotiating NAFTA and strengthening the economy. (Reuters) Dog meat consumption in South Korea Animal rights groups hold protests against dog meat consumption in Seoul. (UPI) Amid controversy, the Trump Administration of the United States revokes the security clearance of former CIA chief John Brennan. (BBC) Sports 2018 Major League Baseball season The Texas Rangers pull off a triple play against the Los Angeles Angels without retiring the batter, the first such triple play in MLB since 1912. (HuffPost)

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(Posted) RD: Yelena Shushunova

Article: Yelena Shushunova (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Washington Post
Credits:

• Nominated by Fram (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Olympic gold medalist in one of the main events, early death. Needs more sourcing, but shouldn't be too hard to finish Fram (talk) 09:35, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

• Weak oppose just looks like that last para of the opening section of the "Senior career" section that needs refs. The Rambling Man (talk) 11:33, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
• Now fully sourced and in more objective, neutral tone. Support as ready. MurielMary (talk) 11:49, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support Nice work on this one; seemed miles away yesterday. ghost 16:32, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
• Posted Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 16:34, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

RD: Michael Persinger

Article: Michael Persinger (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CBC
Credits:

• Nominated by TDKR Chicago 101 (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Article overall well sourced --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 00:37, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

• Support looks in good nick. The Rambling Man (talk) 11:34, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support well sourced and tidy prose, good to go. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 12:03, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

(Posted blurb): Aretha Franklin

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Article: Aretha Franklin (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb:  Singer-songwriter Aretha Franklin dies from pancreatic cancer aged 76. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Singer-songwriter Aretha Franklin, dubbed "The Queen of Soul", dies from pancreatic cancer aged 76.
Alternative blurb II: ​ American singer and songwriter Aretha Franklin dies aged 76.
News source(s): AP
Credits:

• Nominated by strikerforce (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Ritchie333 (talk · give credit) and Muboshgu (talk · give credit)

Article needs updating
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American singer / songerwriter Strikerforce^Talk 14:06, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose on sourcing issues. When she was in the hospital earlier this week I did check the state of her article and there's several unsourced paragraphst throughout which persist today. --Masem (t) 14:09, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
  • No more para without citation.Akhiljaxxn (talk) 15:19, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

• Support I think that for an RD the article is sufficiently sourced. Were someone to request a blurb that might be something different, but the RD is certainly worthy of inclusion in the RD section. Sir Joseph ^(talk) 14:13, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
  • No, we tend to have high standards for RD articles. Right now, I see a couple of sections without references, which is a no-go. List of singles and filmography are also unsourced. Needs some work, but it will probably not be difficult to find sources. --Tone 14:25, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support Well sourced for a RD. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 14:27, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose multiple paragraphs with no references.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 14:30, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
  • No more paragraph without citation. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 15:19, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support. The overall state of the article is good, although additional work and referencing are always welcome. Newyorkbrad (talk) 14:32, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose some contentious claims without any references, simply not the stuff we put on the main page. The Rambling Man (talk) 15:08, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
• Wait. This deserves to go on the main page; hopefully by the close of play today, we can get the article appropriately copyedited and referenced. I had intended to get some book sources and take the article to GA at some point, but unfortunately I never got round to it. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 15:23, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

Now Strong support for blurb - whole article is referenced. Also see RIP Aretha Franklin: Five ways the Queen of Soul made history for more convincing arguments about blurb. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 16:06, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

• Wait until the article is fixed, then add quickly because this breaking news that will most likely remain in the news for some time. It would just be wrong if we were the only people who threw her death under the bus. -BRAINULATOR9 (TALK) 15:30, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support RD and blurb, well-sourced with 107 citations. Gamaliel (talk) 15:35, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support Emphatically Her article will always need work, and even after it is posted, it could change. This is NO REASON to withhold listing her in In The News. List her now. - Haxwell (talk) 15:53, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support blurb pending improved sourcing. Aretha Franklin is a cultural icon and worthy of more than an RD mention. Kurtis ^(talk) 15:55, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support blurb assuming we can get our act together. A plea from bus-drivers everywhere. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:59, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support RD, looks good enough as it is. However I oppose a blurb because this is an old person dying of natural causes and her influence on the world was far smaller than the Mandela / Thatcher standard we should apply per WP:ITN/DC. Modest Genius ^talk 16:00, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

• I thought we were supposed to evaluate their influence in their field. It's hard to overestimate her contribution to soul music.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 16:03, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
• Thatcher couldn't even sing. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:06, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

As I write, the front page of BBC News has live reactions to Aretha's death left, right and centre. This is not just your typical musician's obituary. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 16:08, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

Purely from a factual standpoint, this isn't "an old person dying of natural causes". She had pancreatic cancer. Strikerforce^Talk 16:16, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

Is cancer not natural? Modest Genius ^talk 16:48, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

Indeed, cancer is one of the main ways that old people die and as much as it's tragic, there's nothing unnatural about it.  — Amakuru (talk) 17:37, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

• Support blurb Sorry to bring up ITN's dirty little secret but Franklin IS on the Bowie level in music. Certainly more of a major influence in music then Carrie Fisher or Paul Walker were in acting. GuzzyG (talk) 16:09, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

GuzzyG Fischer and Walker were not old people who died of natural causes; their deaths were news themselves. 331dot (talk) 16:12, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

None of those should have had blurbs IMO. Modest Genius ^talk 16:48, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

Good thing the decision-making process here is based on consensus and not on opinion.--WaltCip (talk) 17:04, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

"Consensus" is often just an aggregation of opinions though. Particularly so at ITN which lacks almost any policy or guidelines to support our recommendations.  — Amakuru (talk) 17:41, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

• Posted to RD. Feel free to continue discussion about converting to blurb. --Jayron32 16:10, 16 August 2018 (UTC)*
• Comment I've added a suggested blurb. Strikerforce^Talk 16:14, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support blurb with caveat that list of number one r and b singles and filmography need referencing. A blurb is warranted given her influence in her field. It is a vital article level 4 the same as Margaret Thatcher so a blurb would be appropriate. Capitalistroadster (talk) 16:15, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
• I just found a citation that mentions Franklin's 1962 album The Tender, the Moving, the Swinging Aretha Franklin as having reached #69 on the Billboard Pop albums chart - specifically, the Clinton Digital Library. It doesn't seem to have gotten its information from Wikipedia. Even so, would anybody consider this to be a reliable enough source? Kurtis ^(talk) 16:16, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

• Absolutely. It appears to be maintained by the Clinton Presidential Library, which is managed by the National Archives. Strikerforce^Talk 16:21, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

• Support blurb. Period. Does this even need to be explained??--WaltCip (talk) 16:24, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support blurb, with following text: "Singer Aretha Franklin, dubbed the Queen of Soul, dies from pancreatic cancer aged 76." - Haxwell (talk) 16:27, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose Blurb She was a local singer. Except USA nobody around the world knew her. she had no world impact stastically speaking.
• Support blurb "major transformative world leader in their field" per WP:ITNRD.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 16:32, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose Blurb not Thatcher or Mandela caliber. Not seeing this even in the US Top 20 at Google News. This is exactly what RD is for. --LaserLegs (talk) 16:33, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

Top story under Entertainment at Google News. [1] Strikerforce^Talk 16:47, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

Yes, under the "entertainment" section. --LaserLegs (talk) 17:05, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

Top story on BBC News, The Guardian, The Independent. LaserLegs I'm going to wager you a tenner that when I go to the newsagent tomorrow morning, Aretha will be on the front cover of every broadsheet newspaper. (And she's not British). Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 16:54, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

But will she still be there the day after tomorrow? Doubtful. Poor old slow print media. So slow. So old. --LaserLegs (talk) 17:05, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

And it's not often the BBC Radio 4 6 O'clock chimes get ushered in by a little prayer. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:19, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

Prediction confirmed! I didn't think all the tabloids would follow suit, but despite The Sun being desperate to stick the knife into Danny Cipriani, every national British newspaper (including the Financial Times and the Daily Star) has got Aretha on the front cover. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 09:17, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

Also front page news for Al Jazeera and Times of Israel. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:18, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

• Support Blurb per numerous contributions to music, soul, R&B, pop, gospel. She has had an enormous influence on artist that followed. Besides winning numerous Grammy awards, she was also honored with 3 special Grammy awards:Legend Award (1991), Lifetime Achievement Award (1994), and the MusiCares Person of the Year (2008).

She was #9 on the Rolling Stone list of Greatest Singers of All Time and ranked 19th among the Billboard Hot 100 All-Time top artists.

She was awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom and was only the second woman to be inducted to the UK Music Hall of Fame in 2005.

--- Coffeeandcrumbs 16:41, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

• Support blurb "Top of their field" would certainly apply here. -A lad insane (Channel 2) 16:44, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support blurb per her significant contributions to music, as explained in the above supports. ZettaComposer (talk) 16:47, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support blurb hard to think of a more impactful female singer. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:03, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
• Needs Attention there is obvious, overwhelming support for a blurb at this point. --LaserLegs (talk) 17:06, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support blurb Hey 19, you better think (think). CoatCheck (talk) 17:07, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

Yes indeed. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:15, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

• Weakest possible oppose to blurb I am not going to stand in the way of a blurb post, but I would like to point out the difference between Franklin and Bowie or Prince is that the latter were still touring and performing and their deaths were sudden, while Franklin was no longer singing, was known to be suffering from cancer, and had been hospitalized earlier in the week, so it was more a matter of when, not if. I fully otherwise see the reasons to post, and given we've been slow on blurbs lately, there's good reasons to use a blurb here. (but keep in mind about the India PM which definitely should get a blurb once to quality). --Masem (t) 17:11, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

(ec with post) Mandela retired 9 to 14 years before his death and his death was expected. Did we not post that? (I haven't cehced the archives)--- Coffeeandcrumbs 17:19, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

We certainly did post and posted Peter O'Toole the same month (aged 81). --- Coffeeandcrumbs 17:28, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

• Blurb posted. There seems to be consensus at the moment...  — Amakuru (talk) 17:17, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
• Post-blurb post What about a photo? Are we just waiting for protection? --- Coffeeandcrumbs 17:38, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

  Is the photo above sufficiently free? The licence says it's not public domain in Canada and other places.  — Amakuru (talk) 17:42, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

I'm not sure the photo is sufficiently free, it's a Billboard advert photo from 1968 without a copyright notice, making it PD in the US but not elsewhere. You could try File:Aretha Franklin on January 20, 2009.jpg, which is a US government work and is PD, full stop. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 17:47, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

File:Aretha Franklin on January 20, 2009.jpg and File:Arethafranklin.jpg and File:Aretha Franklin.jpg are all free to use, but may not be up to quality standards of the main page; no picture may be better than a bad one. Others all seem to suffer from the copyright issues noted above. --Jayron32 17:54, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

I don't think the first of those is too bad; it's a professional shot and wouldn't look out of place on a main news ticker, in my view. The other two, definitely not. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 18:03, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

Support image File:Aretha Franklin on January 20, 2009.jpg or File:Aretha Franklin 1968.jpg Haxwell (talk) 19:17, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

Guys, consensus or not, this was posted before the referencing issue was fixed. In any case, I won't contest it, I will just remove the cause of death, since this is not the main focus here (we'd mention an accident but not an illness). --Tone 17:44, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

• Alternate blurb? The current is "American singer-songwriter Aretha Franklin (pictured) dies at the age of 76." Would there be any objection to changing it to "American singer Aretha Franklin (pictured) dies at the age of 76"? Two reasons: (1) Although she wrote some songs, her notability comes much more from her singing than her songwriting. (2) The term "singer-songwriter" implies a tradition and a way of working, as our article on the topic indicates, that does not really fit for her. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 19:29, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

I would object. She has hundreds maybe thousands of credits on Allmusic.com for either composer or composer/lyricist or both or just lyricist. She was a singer-songwriter. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 19:50, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

But her article calls her a "singer and songwriter", which is not quite thing as "singer-songwriter" - that is used for an artist who almost exclusively performs their own material.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 19:59, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

Agree with Paul Erik and Pawnkingthree. Though mass media does often confuse the two, there is a difference between a singer-songwriter and somebody who writes and sings their own music. Singer-songwriter is a style/approach espoused by figures like James Taylor, Bob Dylan, Tracy Chapman etc Anarcho-authoritarian (talk) 20:09, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

In any case, if the issue you raise is related only specifically to the term "singer-songwriter", I would be ok with "American singer and songwriter Aretha Franklin...". Otherwise, we are perpetuating the same 1960s B.S. to lessen the contributions of the primary artist, especially women artists. She wrote or contributed to the writing of many of her songs. Give her the credit she has earned and has been recognized for. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 20:13, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

Agree. Not sure "singer-songwriter" is appropriate. Also unsure about "pianist". But maybe further discussion is better placed at Talk:Aretha Franklin? Martinevans123 (talk) 20:16, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

(ec) I hadn't thought about User:Coffeeandcrumbs's point about what we might be perpetuating. So then yes, I think "singer and songwriter" on the main page would be best. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 21:02, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

So can we now go for Altblurb II? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:59, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

But per User:Tone's comment above, I would leave out the cause of death. Paul Erik ^{(talk)(contribs)} 21:04, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

Agreed. In no way significant to her notability. But am wondering about "soul singer and songwriter". Martinevans123 (talk) 21:28, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

Franklin (1967)

• PP comment – It would seem more relevant to her career to use the photo from 1967 (right), when her "signature song" (per our article) Respect hit the charts, or the 1968 mug accompanying this nom (above).
  Also, instead of the rather generic "singer-songwriter," how about "soul singer" – ?? – Sca (talk) 21:55, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

No objection to "soul singer". Martinevans123 (talk) 22:02, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

Please see discussions above regarding images. Neither the one used in the nom, nor the 1967 one you mention here are suitable for posting on the main page because they are tagged as without a copyright notice, making them public domain in the US but not elsewhere. Also, there seems to be consensus above not to remove the term "songwriter" from the blurb due to her large number of composition and songwriting credits. We could perhaps go with "sould singer and songwriter..." though?  — Amakuru (talk) 23:18, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

That would be soul singer and songwriter. Sca (talk) 02:02, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

• support for blurb. A soul and music icon. I'm glad it was posted quickly.Johnsemlak (talk) 22:57, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose blurb per LaserLegs. A death should make the main pages, not just the entertainment pages, to be a blurb. Banedon (talk) 23:39, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
• Post-posting support for rd, neutral on blurb. I don't believe that entertainment figures are to be considered as influential worldwide as figures such as Nelson Mandela or Stephen Hawking, but I'm also not certain that they necessarily need to be in order to warrant an ITN blurb. However, I also don't feel that I'm very qualified to speak of how influential she is or is not, so take this with a grain of salt. If possible, I would change the infobox picture to one of the photographs of her in the 1960s as these are more relevant to her career than the one of her at the Obama inauguration, but I understand that copyright may prevent this from being possible. I agree with the decision to exclude the cause of death, as it is her life that made her death notable, not her death itself. Brendon the Wizard ✉️ ✨ 01:47, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
• Pull/Oppose blurb Where were other admins looking when someone posted this as a blurb? I am pretty sure we have an established tradition of only posting deaths of Mandela-size figures to the ITN, and this person is sure as hell isn't, neither by the importance, nor by the number of views of her page before her death. Very disappointed in a yet another example of heavy American/Western bias on Wikipedia. Sad. Openlydialectic (talk) 02:09, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

• Pull/Oppose blurb I find it extraordinary that a blurb was posted at 17:17 UTC, only 3 hours 11 minutes after the item was nominated, especially when her death was already on the main page under Recent Deaths. It wouldn't hurt to wait a bit longer to allow all Wikipedians a chance to comment on the nomination, particularly those in Oceania/Asia where it was nighttime when it was hastily posted to the mainpage. Chrisclear (talk) 04:43, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

Chrisclear Arbitrary minimum discussion times have been suggested before but never gained consensus. We usually get criticism that we are too slow to post things. 331dot (talk) 07:58, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

331dot I didn't explain myself properly the first time. What I meant was that I don't believe there was strong consensus to post this at 17:17 UTC, and the simple way to resolve that would have been to wait a while longer, to allow consensus to form. I can understand posting an article for a truly influential dead person like Nelson Mandela, but for someone like Aretha Franklin whose influence was smaller, and where consensus had not been formed, it would have been better to wait longer than 3 hours and 11 minutes. Chrisclear (talk) 09:51, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

Fair enough. 331dot (talk) 09:55, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

No, not really fair enough. It was already main page news across the globe and had a consensus to post a blurb here. No question about that whatsoever. Would it have been better to wait 4 hours? 6 hours? 12 hours? You can't please all the people all the time, but if you want a minimum waiting time then propose it, but this decision was beyond question at the point it was posted, not a problem at all. We've gone beyond the Mandela requirement and have done for some time (since people like Debbie Reynolds have been blurbed). And as yet, I've seen not one single reader question the decision to post a blurb. So it looks like Wikipedia got it 100% right on this occasion. The Rambling Man (talk) 11:40, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

• Pull/Oppose blurb Not a world transforming figure therefore doesn't merit a blurb. Never even heard of her before she got hospitalised recently. 39.57.133.182 (talk) 05:13, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

You never having heard of her doesn't mean she was not highly influential in her field, which I believe you would discover in doing research about it. Many media outlets would disagree with you, based on the reporting and her Presidential award she received. 331dot (talk) 07:59, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

I'd never heard of the Ponte Morandi until last week (and I've worked on quite a few highway and bridge articles myself) but I didn't see much call for pulling that.F Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 08:29, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

Maybe you work in health insurance? Martinevans123 (talk) 09:20, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

Bing! Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 09:30, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

• Support blurb Her death has made a huge impact and IS making headlines across the world. I mean if Christopher Lee and Debbie Reynolds could get blurbs Franklin does merit one. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 07:50, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

• Comment The article received a million views in the days leading up to this nomination being posted. It will be interesting to see what the pageviews are for yesterday, when they come in - I wouldn't be surprised if they topped a million on their own. Also, can we leave out the calls of "bias"; remember that the article has, in part, been improved by a shout out on Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red, whose very raison d'etre is to help counteract bias (in this case, bias against women, and especially black women). Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 08:29, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
• Comment Aretha Franklin is still on the front page of the BBC and NYTimes websites, a day after her death. These are online news mediums and not the "old slow print" that LaserLegs was bemoaning with Trumpian rancor. This is a death that is making the world slow down and catch its breath. Posting it as a blurb was the correct decision. Not posting as a blurb would have reeked of systemic bias.--WaltCip (talk) 10:53, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
• "A death should make the main pages" and indeed it has, across the globe! This underpins the posting of a blurb to be exactly the correct decision. And a belated well done to everyone concerned in bringing the article up in quality. The Rambling Man (talk) 10:58, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
• Comment. The AP source used as the reference above clearly says A professional singer and accomplished pianist. Aretha was the Queen of Soul music, known mostly by her big voice. Out of her 20 number-one R&B songs, she only wrote two ("Call Me" and "Daydreaming"). That's not enough notability to call her a songwriter. I'd say soul singer is a better description. Bluesatellite (talk) 11:49, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

RD/Blurb: Atal Bihari Vajpayee

Articles: Atal Bihari Vajpayee (talk · history · tag) and Prime Minister of India (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb:  Former Prime Minister of India Atal Bihari Vajpayee dies at the age of 93. (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

• Nominated by Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk · give credit)

Article needs updating
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Former Indian Prime Minister Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 12:35, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

• Support Under his leadership india had kargil war.India also had it's first Nuke test which has changed India's position on the world completely.Sir Joseph ^(talk) 14:13, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose - Some sections are not referenced at all. Sherenk1 (talk) 12:45, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose Per above. Akhiljaxxn (talk) 14:08, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support blurb, Oppose RD given quality standards are met. He served 3 times as Prime Minister of India. Ask if you would post Obama/Bush as RD or Blurb and figure out how much systemic bias exists if its the latter and this death is not. 155.64.138.81 (talk) 15:11, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

• Just as reference, the most recent US President death (Gerald Ford, 2006) was included as a blurb. HaEr48 (talk) 16:52, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

• Point of order did the RD option exist then? Hard to imagine Ford would qualify under current standards. Do we intend to blurb the death of every head of state and government if the country is big enough? Do we go by population, geography, or GDP? This could get out of hand quickly. ghost 17:47, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose on sourcing. I would say that death of one that served as the effective head of state for the world's second-most populous nation probably should get a blurb. --Masem (t) 15:14, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

As your actually supporting to add the nominations to the blurb. You must actually write 'support' rather than 'oppose'. Please correct the mistake at the earliest. Adithya Pergade (talk) 10:09, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

•  Working; I hope to address the referencing issues soon. And for the record, I agree, the subject definitely deserves a blurb. MBlaze Lightning ^talk 15:33, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support blurb pending referencing issues are resolved. 39.57.133.182 (talk) 05:17, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
• Strong support for a blurb once current issues with referncing are resolved. For those who don't know, Prime-Minister of India's the "real" leader of India, and this guy served as one for a total of 7 years. I wouldn't expect problems with getting a blurb once one of the former US presidents die, and India is a country with 5 times as many people as there are in the US, and since it's a democracy, all of the adults there elected him to his post. So he definitively deserves a blurb, more so than the singer whos death is currently featured on the ITN (with a photo too!) Openlydialectic (talk) 05:22, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support blurb/RD I agree with the above statement, as a leader of world's largest democracy that too a developing country with a lot of problems, a person is entrusted great burden perhaps more than any other country and a person must be remembered for the same. I ask the administers to take a decisions taking a clear perspective of his legacy. Adithya Pergade (talk) 06:50, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support blurb/RD basis prominence of the subject. Considered one of the best PMs India ever had. --User:WoodElf 07:26, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose blurb. This PM was not a world transformative leader or tip-top in their field like Margaret Thatcher or Nelson Mandela. I'm not certain every US President would necessarily merit a blurb; we didn't have RD for Gerald Ford or he might have been put there. 331dot (talk) 07:46, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

If your argument is that you're citing an established practice, then I am sorry but we just posted a blurb AND a picture of some random American singer nobody's heard about outside of the US (her article before her death was visited on average 2-3 times less often than the article about the Indian PM), so no, I don't think your argument works. On a side note, didn't we post a blurb about Fords' death? Openlydialectic (talk) 08:03, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

RD did not exist at the time of Ford's death, I believe Ford would not get a blurb today(nor every US President). If you were to research her, you would find that the description "some random American singer" is grossly inadequate. But you are entitled to your opinion. 331dot (talk) 08:09, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

"we just posted a blurb AND a picture of some random American singer nobody's heard about outside of the US" - would you like it if I opposed this because of "some random former politician who nobody outside India has ever heard of"? Keep the discussion on sources and page views, please. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 08:34, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

I would if you cited your arguments for that statement. I cited mine - the importance of her post and the number of views her article had received. Openlydialectic (talk) 08:46, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

*Point of order A person cannot be judged on how popular they were nor were they internationally honored and were praised in history or civics text books but rather on what work they have done, how did their decisions and doings influence the surroundings and the future and being leaders how did they protect the interests of their citizens. Hence I would ask all the debaters to not make baseless statements just to prove their point. When it comes to the subject we are discussing, our statements must be strictly guided on the legacy of the person in question . If anyone does not approve of Aretha Franklin being on the blurb then they must oppose the posting of the blurb on the place so provided [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:In_the_news/Candidates#(Posted_blurb):_Aretha_Franklin ], This is not a platform for anyone to oppose her being on the blurb. Adithya Pergade (talk) 09:44, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

• Support blurb A notable head of state of the largest democracy. In office during india's nuclear tests.SaurabhMittal523 (talk) 08:30, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

He was not head of state, the President of India is head of state. 331dot (talk) 08:31, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

Don't fret over semantics: the president of India is a ceremonial post. The Prime Minister of India is the person in charge of the country. Openlydialectic (talk) 08:44, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

You may call it "semantics" if you wish but the fact remains that this individual was not head of state, but head of government, two very different things. 331dot (talk) 08:47, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

@331dot: Prime Minister is de facto head of state in India While President is de jure like Queen & Prime Minister in Great Britain.-- Godric ki Kothri^{talk to me} 10:06, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

This isn t the place to argue that point, and it isn't pertinent to this nomination. I was simply correcting the OP. 331dot (talk) 12:22, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose on quality - article is full of tags. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 08:35, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support blurb The former head of government of the largest democracy, who played a big role in letting MNCs (Multi-National Companies) into India, Pokhran-II, and the Kargil War is important enough to be featured. Besides, where would India be without him?RedBulbBlueBlood9911 (talk) 08:46, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support blurb American singer and songwriter Aretha Franklin's had no international deplomatic ties or connection meanwhile 3 times PM of indai is getting reject here! this is pure bias. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.233.52.254 (talk) 08:54, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

Singers and politicians are two different fields. There is no requirement of international ties to be posted here; if there were, very little would be posted. 331dot (talk) 08:59, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

To be clear, I am amenable to supporting an RD (I have no opinion on blurb), but I'm sure as heck not supporting anything that's covered in {{fact}} tags. Fix that first, and I'll revisit it. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 09:10, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

• Support blurb As he is a prominent and one of the best prime ministers of India.-- Godric ki Kothri^{talk to me} 10:02, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
• Needs improvement for RD as there are numerous {{cn}} tags. Oppose blurb; he was PM of India for 6 years, but did not have major worldwide influence and falls short of the Mandela/Thatcher threshold we apply. Arguments that he was one of India's 'best' PMs are subjective, meaningless, and not part of the criteria at WP:ITN/DC. I don't think Franklin should have had a blurb either; pointing at that is just WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS, so very unconvincing. Modest Genius ^talk 10:34, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

@Modest Genius: How can you say that he did not have major worldwide influence? Pokhran-II conducted in his prime ministerial reign after which many countries of world imposed ban on India. Also Kargil War happen in his reign.-- Godric ki Kothri^{talk to me} 10:45, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose At least 19 {{Citations needed}} tags and two whole sections tagged with {{Refimprove section}}. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 10:58, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose on quality. It appears the blurb supporters are focusing on the size of India. That's fine; but lets take that to it's natural conclusion - post all Indian PMs, US Presidents, paramount leaders of China. No big problems there. Next comes Indonesia, Brazil...queue the crickets. Leaders of certain countries (G8 comes to mind) will have a greater potential to impact the world, but these positions should make the holders blurb-worthy per se, as this opens us up to clear bias toward the US, UK and India (i.e. the home countries of the bulk of our editors). ghost 11:21, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
• On notability grounds, this should be a blurb, especially considering Franklin's position there. Vajpayee was Prime Minister, for several years, of a country of over a billion people. Note that that was one in every six persons on the planet, not to mention India is a significant global player. A huge deal. ITN on the the English Wikipedia tries to avoid bias towards the English-speaking world, and excluding such a person on notability grounds would be terrible. Posting should still be subject to quality assessment though. --LukeSurl ^{t c} 11:58, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

I knew that was going to happen. Vajpayee was not a pop singer, Franklin was not a prime minister, there is no comparison there, none, none at all. (I opposed a blurb for Franklin, btw). --LaserLegs (talk) 13:23, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose Blurb not Thatcher/Mandela. Oppose RD on quality. --LaserLegs (talk) 13:23, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

• not Thatcher/Mandela

/Franklin* --Openlydialectic (talk) 14:54, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

Meaningless I'm afraid. Didn't Debbie Reynolds and Carrie Fisher already have blurbs? And Prince? And Bowie? And ... and ... and ... ? The Rambling Man (talk) 15:02, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

This'll happen every time we burb a death, for the next few weeks there will be "Well we did a blurb for X, therefore we must Y and Z". FWIW I don't think Prince, or Fisher, or Bowie or the fast and furious guy should have had blurbs. --LaserLegs (talk) 15:14, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

• Support blurb He was not only a 2-time PM of the world’s largest democracy, but was instrumental in making India a nuclear power, of which there are only 9 of in the world. EternalNomad (talk) 13:40, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
• I've dealt with the two orange-tagged sections. There's now about a dozen {{citation needed}} tags, but that's not an insurmountable task. --LukeSurl ^{t c} 13:50, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support blurb on improvement..three time prime minister definitely qualifies once article is dealt with cn tags..The Herald (Benison) (talk) 14:15, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
• Slightly Oppose Blurb, but strongly encourage current editing so it can make RD ASAP. --Sunshineisles2 (talk) 14:34, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose still not good enough. The Rambling Man (talk) 15:02, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose Many citation tags remain.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 15:07, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
• Comment added some cn tags - when you see a whole paragraph, with one ref at the end, and the last sentence appears to be an aside to the rest of the paragraph, you can generally assume that whole para is not supported by the ref and needs to be checked. I don't have time today to check this whole thing, before we rush this "OMFG VIP not a singer also India has a BILLION PEOPLE" article to the main page, could someone please check it in detail? Or not, I've been told such practice is obstructive, maybe it's a waste of time. --LaserLegs (talk) 15:26, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
  • The article is also full of flowery garbage like "major achievement was a significant expansion" and "army units were swiftly rushed into". Needs a copy edit too for MP. --LaserLegs (talk) 15:31, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose the article has several citation needed templates. On the other hand, one of the famous PM of largest democracy definitely deserves blurb, so once the sourcing issue is resolved, a blurb should be posted.Amirk94391 (talk) 15:29, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
  • "PM of largest democracy definitely deserves blurb" - why? --LaserLegs (talk) 15:32, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
    • Because random American singers and former presidents had theirs, and most people here are tired of Western-centric bias on wikipedia. Openlydialectic (talk) 15:38, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
      • I think it's been adequately demonstrated that your ongoing use of the word "random" with respect to Franklin is completely at odds with the mainstream press around the globe and the strong consensus here at ITN, so if you want people to take you more seriously, you should refrain from continuing to make such assertions. And if "most people here are tired" then there are plenty of other Wikipedias that are desperate for attention, and other projects altogether. The Rambling Man (talk) 16:03, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

I'll say this once and then hush up - we are all concerned about bias. But has it occurred to you that "that other nomination" is also a stand for systemic bias against women, and particularly against black women? Now, if you can clear down the remaining tags, I think having an RD is reasonable. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 16:25, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

Do you think its a coincidence that most of the blurb supporters are members of WP:IND or IPs? Bias is about thinking outside of one's own sphere, wherever that is; not just the U.S. The rules say "major transformative world leaders in their field." Ask yourself: who were the most trasformative living statesmen on August 1st? How about singers? It's not even a conversation. ghost 16:29, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

• Because he sparked a nuclear arms race in the Indian subcontinent and then made peace talks with Pakistan; so he actually made a lasting impression in his field and the impact of his actions was not limited to his country. Also, is it just me or do musicians (English language ones) have a relatively low bar for getting a blurb? 1.39.159.71 (talk) 16:37, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

• Support per nominator's rationale. Capankajsmilyo^{(Talk | Infobox assistance)} 16:53, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

(Closed) 2018 Asian Games

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Article: 2018 Asian Games (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item nomination (Post)
Credits:

• Nominated by Angga1061 (talk · give credit)

Nominator's comments: Multi-sport event; first time held in two cities, only second time held in my hometown country, Indonesia. Angga1061 09:00, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

Premature: the opening ceremony is not until 18 August, however article is well written, so will support when the games start. Note: Asian Games is not ITN/R. --Danski454 (talk) 10:37, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

August 15

Portal:Current events/2018 August 15

August 15, 2018 (2018-08-15) (Wednesday) Armed conflicts and attacks War in Afghanistan At least 48 people, mostly students, are killed and a further 67 are injured in a suicide bomb attack at an education centre in Kabul. The Taliban denies any involvement. (BBC) The Taliban attacks two units of Afghan security forces in the Baghlan-e-Markazi district of Baghlan Province, killing at least 39 soldiers and police officers. (SFGate) Arts and culture Me Too movement § China Following accusations by fellow monks of sexual misconduct and embezzling funds—accusations which were subsequently posted on social media—the Buddhist Association of China announces Shi Xuecheng's resignation from the office of president of that organization. Xuecheng had dismissed the records as a fabrication. (The Guardian) Business and economy Automotive industry in South Korea The government of South Korea announces that it will ban 20,000 BMW vehicles following engine fires. (BBC) Economy of New Zealand New Zealand's parliament votes to ban the sale of homes to non-resident foreign nationals amid a housing affordability crisis. Australians and Singaporeans are exempt due to free-trade deals. (BBC) Disasters and accidents 2018 California wildfires Officials lift all mandatory evacuation orders for the deadly Carr Fire in Northern California that destroyed nearly 1,100 homes and killed eight people. (KHQ) (ABC News) 22 children and a woman drown after their boat sinks in the Nile in Sudan while travelling to school. (Business Standard) International relations Foreign relations of South Korea South Korean President Moon Jae-in announces plans to create a Northeast Asian railroad community with North Korea, the United States, China, Japan, Russia, and Mongolia. (CNBC) Law and crime Transgender rights in Germany The Cabinet of Germany approves a third gender option for official identification records. The change will come into force by the end of the year. (Deutsche Welle) Caracas drone explosions Venezuelan authorities arrest a military general, a colonel, and a dozen others in connection to a failed assassination attempt on President Nicolás Maduro. (UPI) Iraqi Civil War (2014–2017) Omar Ameen, an ISIL member who lived in California as a refugee, is arrested in Sacramento for a 2014 murder in Rawa, Iraq. (The New York Times) Politics and elections President Donald Trump revokes the security clearance of former Central Intelligence Agency director John Brennan, and the White House announces clearance reviews for other current and former national security officials. (ABC News) Science and technology Indian Space Research Organisation Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi says India will launch its first manned space mission by 2022, which would make it the fourth nation to do so after Russia, the United States, and China. (Reuters) Discoveries of exoplanets Scientists observe the signal of iron and titanium atoms in the atmosphere of KELT-9b, an exoplanet located 600 light-years from Earth. (Gizmodo)

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(Posted) RD: John Shipley Rowlinson

Article: John Shipley Rowlinson (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
Credits:

• Updated and nominated by HaEr48 (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: British chemist with significant contribution to science. HaEr48 (talk) 06:08, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

• Support satis. The Rambling Man (talk) 11:36, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support The personal life section is far too trivial (maybe a specific climb could be cited?), but nothing to keep it off MP. ghost 11:44, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support Looks good to me. Nice to see chemists on the main page. shoy (reactions) 15:31, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support Good to go.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 17:43, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
• Posted Stephen 23:20, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

RD: Ajit Wadekar

Article: Ajit Wadekar (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

• Nominated by Sherenk1 (talk · give credit)

Article needs updating
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Former India Test and One Day International captain Sherenk1 (talk) 03:59, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose too much unreferenced. The Rambling Man (talk) 11:37, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

(Removed) Remove from Ongoing: Carr Fire

Article: Carr Fire (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item removal (Post)

The most recent prose update from Carr_Fire#August is from 5 days ago; without continuing substantial updates, this should not remain on ongoing. Spencer^T•C 02:17, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

• I think we could replace it with Mendocino Complex Fire, which is bigger and still partially ongoing. Then we can remove that when it's contained. – Muboshgu (talk) 03:46, 15 August 2018 (UTC)
• Remove adding any other fire should be a separate nomination and not tucked away in the removal of this one. The Rambling Man (talk) 05:09, 15 August 2018 (UTC)
  • Fair enough. It was more of a passing thought than a serious one. – Muboshgu (talk) 05:22, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

FYI, according to CalFire, the Carr Fire is 65 percent contained but still draws 4,000 firefighters. Sca (talk) 13:27, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

• Support - while still ongoing, there are no longer sufficient significant updates to merit this remaining up. Stormy clouds (talk) 14:31, 15 August 2018 (UTC)
• Remove If the article isn't being updated, it isn't eligible for ongoing anymore. --Jayron32 15:03, 15 August 2018 (UTC)
• Remove - A majority of the fire is contained.--WaltCip (talk) 15:07, 15 August 2018 (UTC)
• Remove - still burning, not getting updates, not in the news. --LaserLegs (talk) 17:11, 15 August 2018 (UTC)
• Remove - Agree that the topic is getting stale. Jusdafax (talk) 19:24, 15 August 2018 (UTC)
• Removed Stephen 00:04, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

August 14

Portal:Current events/2018 August 14

August 14, 2018 (2018-08-14) (Tuesday) Armed conflicts and attacks Norma Azucena Rodríguez Zamora, a recently elected member of the Congress of Mexico, is kidnapped by gunmen in Hidalgo State. (BBC) Disasters and accidents Ponte Morandi § Collapse The Ponte Morandi viaduct collapses on the A10 motorway in Genoa, Italy. 38 people are confirmed dead, 16 others are seriously injured, 5 are missing and 632 displaced. 35 cars and three heavy vehicles are involved in the accident. Several homes are also damaged and people inside them also injured. (TGCom) A road accident in Quito, Ecuador involving a bus and a truck leaves 24 people dead and 18 others injured. (CNN en Español) Ten people are killed and another injured in a fire at a care home in Chiguayante, Chile. (24 Horas) International relations Following a period of quiet, Israel reopens the Kerem Shalom crossing into Gaza. (BBC) Law and crime Grand jury investigation of Catholic Church sexual abuse in Pennsylvania A grand jury report alleging that more than 300 priests abused over 1,000 children in six Pennsylvania Catholic diocese -- Allentown, Scranton, Harrisburg, Pittsburgh, Greensburg, and Erie -- is released by state Attorney General Josh Shapiro. (Washington Post) (Times Leader) 2018 Westminster car crash A man is arrested near the Palace of Westminster in London after a Ford Fiesta hit pedestrians, cyclists and a security barrier. (The Daily Telegraph) Stand-your-ground law in Florida Michael Drejka is charged with manslaughter by a state attorney after a reversal of an earlier decision made by police. The case stems from a controversial video that shows Drejka shooting another man over a handicapped parking space and claiming self defense. (NBC) Capital punishment in Nebraska Nebraska executes convicted murderer Carey Dean Moore, becoming the first U.S. state to execute an inmate with fentanyl, and what is also the state's first execution in 21 years, and its first by lethal injection. (BBC) Politics and elections European migrant crisis Spain, Portugal, France, Germany and Luxembourg agree to take in 141 migrants, 67 of them unaccompanied children, who were rescued on Friday by the MV Aquarius; Malta allows the ship to dock. (The Guardian) Kansas gubernatorial election, 2018 Incumbent Governor of Kansas Jeff Colyer concedes defeat to Republican challenger Kris Kobach in the primary election. (CNN)

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(Posted) Ponte Morandi collapse

Articles: Autostrada A10 (Italy) (talk · history · tag) and Ponte Morandi (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Ponte Morandi, a major bridge near the northern Italian city of Genoa, has collapsed with 'dozens' of casualties reported. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Morandi bridge, a part of the A10 motorway, and about 100 metres tall, collapses and kills tens of motorists.
Alternative blurb II: ​ A portion of the Ponte Morandi motorway bridge near Genoa, Italy collapses, killing at least 22 people.
News source(s): BBC News
Credits:

• Updated and nominated by Hektor (talk · give credit)

Nominator's comments: This is a major collapse. Hektor (talk) 10:54, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

• Support on notability. Oppose on lack of content - literally all there is a the moment is a single sentence that gives less information than the blurb. Thryduulf (talk) 11:40, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support. I've taken the liberty of rewording the blurb. There's work ongoing at Ponte Morandi to get it up to date with news of the collapse, so it should be much more informative shortly. Prioryman (talk) 11:50, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support and Oppose per Thryduulf. Also suggest blurb need a little rewording before posting. -- KTC (talk) 11:59, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support Article expansion/sourcing has taken place since the nom. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 12:41, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support - Article is improving, and of sufficient quality to feature. Major bridge collapse with a fair amount of casualties. Mjroots (talk) 12:48, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support - Details/update are appropriate at this time. Added Alt2 to be more straightforward blurb. --Masem (t) 13:35, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support Significant. Article looks good. Marking as ready. Mamyles (talk) 13:50, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
• Posting Alt II – Muboshgu (talk) 14:05, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

(Posted) Battle of Ghazni

Articles: Battle of Ghazni (2018) (talk · history · tag) and Ghazni offensive (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In Afghanistan, hundreds are killed as the Taliban seize most of the strategic city of Ghazni and the surrounding province. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Afghan and NATO-led forces continue to battle the Taliban in the strategic city of Ghazni.
News source(s): NYTimes, CBS, Reuters, BBC, PBS
Credits:

• Updated and nominated by Monopoly31121993(2) (talk · give credit)

Nominator's comments: This is a major battle and is being reported as such by all accounts. Ghazni is Afghanistan's sixth largest city and nothing on this scale has taken places since the Battle of Kunduz (2016), two years ago. Monopoly31121993(2) (talk) 10:54, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

• Comment I have adjusted the blurbs. There may be room for more improvement. IMO, calling the city "historic" was not necessary just in this context. I would also suggest finding more sources beside Long War Journal. The reference section lacks variety. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 11:40, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
• Death and transfer of territory are routine in warfare. Is the casualty rate here especially high, or are we putting weight on the strategic part? If it's the latter, I think we need to meet a very objective standard in applying that value. It tends to raise more questions than provides answers (strategic to whom or to what goal? According to whom? How many cities are so designated?) ghost 12:22, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

I've updated the article with the latest information today. Yes, the casualty rate here especially high here. No other battle has reached this level in a long time.Monopoly31121993(2) (talk) 08:36, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

• Support - Saw it dominate news for a while. Sherenk1 (talk) 12:28, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support - This should be posted now since it will be old news in a couple of days. It's also uncommon to have news from this region, most Afghanistan news is about Kabul.Monopoly31121993(2) (talk) 08:36, 15 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support - A milestone in the long conflict. Jusdafax (talk) 19:26, 15 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support the original blurb. Article has come along nicely since I noticed it doing NPP. This particular region of the country hasn't seen much conflict in the last couple of years, if I'm not mistaken, so I'd consider this newsworthy. Strikerforce^Talk 19:38, 15 August 2018 (UTC)
• Comment We have competing articles about the same subject. I have noted the second article - which was actually the first created - in the nomination. I've started a discussion on the Talk of the editor that created Ghazni offensive to try to reach a consensus on a merge. Strikerforce^Talk 20:18, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

I've now migrated everything worth migrating from Battle of Ghazni (2018) to Ghazni offensive. It should be all set.Monopoly31121993(2) (talk) 00:06, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

• Support Gigantic news, arguably the biggest victory of the terrorists in the 17-year long conflict Openlydialectic (talk) 02:37, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support The combined article is well sourced. The story is news worthy. I prefer the original blurb. Altblurb doesn't say anything notable. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 09:16, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
• Posted original blurb. Sam Walton (talk) 09:38, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
• @Sam Walton: I'm confused about this. The blurb was outdated pretty much by the time it was nominated here: the article states that the Taliban withdrew from the city on the 14th. How did it get posted as such? ansh666 20:50, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
  • @Ansh666: Oh you're right. I only read the lead of the article and the above support votes. I've modified the blurb to "In Afghanistan, hundreds are killed as the Taliban seize most of the strategic city of Ghazni for 4 days." Do you think that's an improvement? Sam Walton (talk) 21:29, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
    • Sure, thanks. ansh666 22:13, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

August 13

Portal:Current events/2018 August 13

August 13, 2018 (2018-08-13) (Monday) Armed conflicts and attacks War in Afghanistan More than 100 Afghan soldiers and police, 13 civilians and hundreds of Taliban are killed during the ongoing offensive in Ghazni. (BBC) The Taliban captures Camp Chenaya, an Afghan Army base in Ghormach District, Faryab Province. (Voice of America) At least 40 people are killed by paramilitary forces in eastern Ethiopia, in the latest spate of violence driven by ethnic divisions. (Voice of America) Business and economy Turkish currency and debt crisis Asian stock prices sink as Turkey’s financial turmoil fuels fears contagion might spread to other emerging markets. (Market Watch) Disasters and accidents 2018 Laos dam collapse The death toll from a dam collapse in Laos on 23 July rises to 36, while 98 people are still missing. (Business Standard) Authorities in India confirm that 774 people have been killed so far during monsoon rains. (Financial Express) Nine people are killed and 16 others injured after a fire breaks out in a ward on the seventh floor of a hospital in New Taipei City, Taiwan. (BBC) More than 300 people are injured, five seriously, after a section of wooden jetty collapsed at an urban sports and music festival in Vigo, Spain. (BBC) Twelve fans of Ecuadorian football team Barcelona S.C. are killed and 30 others are injured after the bus they were traveling on overturns in Azuay, Ecuador. (Xinhua) Three Russian climbers and two Tajik pilots die while 12 other people are injured in a helicopter crash in Tajikistan. (Tampa Bay Times) 41 people are injured when a coach overturns in Kent, England, United Kingdom. (Kent Live) International relations North Korea–South Korea relations North Korea and South Korea officials begin high-level negotiations, with reports suggesting that Kim Jong-un and Moon Jae-in could be planning for a summit in Pyongyang later this month. (Reuters) Politics and elections Mueller special counsel investigation The lawyer of Peter Strzok, a former agent of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) who was removed from Robert Mueller's Special Counsel investigation, announces that his client has been fired by the FBI. (The Washington Post via MSN)

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RD: Jim Neidhart

Article: Jim Neidhart (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
Credits:

• Nominated by GreatCaesarsGhost (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 ghost 18:15, 13 August 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose for now; too much of the article is unreferenced. Aim for 1 per paragraph minimum, with contentious statements given special attention. Also, several of the accomplishments section lacks refs. --Jayron32 18:21, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose horrible article, needs complete overhaul, nowhere need ready. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:26, 13 August 2018 (UTC)

comment - Calling it a "horrible article", is a bit of a stretch. The article does need some more sourcing, however. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 07:51, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

• Support Article got worked on, now ready.LM2000 (talk) 22:54, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

  Still whole paragraphs unreferenced, inappropriate for a BLP. The Rambling Man (talk) 09:08, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

  • Looks like at least one reference per paragraph now. GaryColemanFan (talk) 05:41, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

RD: Somnath Chatterjee

Article: Somnath Chatterjee (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Times of India
Credits:

• Nominated by Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Noted Parliamentarian elected Ten times and Former Speaker of Lok Sabha Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 05:58, 13 August 2018 (UTC)

• With your MOS:SOB, that sounds like quite a title. 159.53.78.142 (talk) 12:17, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose at present, as the article is in dire need of more references. Vanamonde (talk) 12:24, 13 August 2018 (UTC)

Agree with Vanamonde The article needs some updates.I have added some references. Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 12:50, 13 August 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose early sections have unreferenced paragraphs. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:41, 13 August 2018 (UTC)

August 12

Portal:Current events/2018 August 12

August 12, 2018 (2018-08-12) (Sunday) Disasters and accidents August 2018 Lombok earthquake The BNPB spokesperson Sutopo Purwo Nugroho confirmed that the death toll from the earthquake in Lombok rises to 436. (Tempo.co) A report by the SOHR says that the explosion of an arms depot in Sarmada, Idlib Governorate, Syria, kills at least 69 people, including 17 children. The cause of the blast is "not yet clear". Most of the victims were reportedly family members of Hayat Tahrir al-Sham militants. (Reuters) At least 15 people die after a bus falls into a ravine in the western region of Ancash, in Peru. (Xinhua) International relations Convention on the legal status of the Caspian Sea After more than 20 years of negotiations, the five countries bordering the Caspian Sea sign an agreement in Aktau, Kazakhstan, on its shared use and the distribution of its resources. The convention legally defines the body of water as a sea rather than a lake, but with special provisions. (Deutsche Welle) Foreign relations of the Democratic Republic of the Congo, Foreign relations of South Africa South African President Cyril Ramaphosa meets with President Joseph Kabila of DR Congo in Kinshasa, praising him for his "respect for the constitution" by agreeing to step down and not take part in the upcoming December 2018 Congolese general election. (The South African) Law and crime Moss Side mass shooting Ten people are injured in a mass shooting in Manchester, United Kingdom. (BBC) Politics and elections Unite the Right 2 Around twenty white nationalists hold a protest march in Washington, D.C. on the first anniversary of the Unite the Right rally, with thousands of counter-protesters. (AP via CBC News) Science and technology NASA launches the Parker Solar Probe, an unpiloted spacecraft designed to study the sun. (BBC)

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PGA Championship

Article: 2018 PGA Championship (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In golf, Brooks Koepka wins the PGA Championship at Bellerive. (Post)
News source(s): NYT [2]
Credits:

• Nominated by 75.188.224.208 (talk · give credit)

The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

 75.188.224.208 (talk) 22:36, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose headings and a few words for round summaries are there but inadequate. The Rambling Man (talk) 09:09, 15 August 2018 (UTC)
• This isn't far short. Expand the round summaries to a full (referenced) paragraph on each and it would be postable. The 'field' section is a complete mess, but that was also true of 2018 Open Championship. Modest Genius ^talk 10:38, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

RD: Samir Amin

Article: Samir Amin (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [3]
Credits:

• Nominated by Soman (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Reknowned Marxist theorist and economist Soman (talk) 20:22, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose whole biography section is unreferenced, and more uncited material follows that. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:42, 13 August 2018 (UTC)

(Posted) Parker Solar Probe

Article: Parker Solar Probe (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ NASA launches Parker Solar Probe which will study the outer corona of the Sun. (Post)
Credits:

• Nominated by Tone (talk · give credit)

Nominator's comments: Launched today. The article needs some updates, but launching new spaceprobes is ITNR. Tone 08:21, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

• The probe is not ITNR until it arrives at its destination. 331dot (talk) 09:21, 12 August 2018 (UTC)
  • You're right. But it is an interesting story nevertheless. --Tone 09:43, 12 August 2018 (UTC)
    • I didn't claim otherwise, only commented on the ITNR aspect. 331dot (talk) 09:51, 12 August 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose per 331dot.--WaltCip (talk) 16:18, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

To clarify, I was not supporting or opposing, only stating that this is not ITNR. 331dot (talk) 16:41, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

• Support This is well written article already. But I will assist with improvements. The first spacecraft to fly into the low solar corona. Unlike most probes this one is headed straight into the sun. The scientific application for the data collected are innumerable. The article is well sourced and very informative. The probe will not reach the first of its several destinations until the end of September. We should post the launch and post arrival to Venus as well on September 28 (ITNR). --- Coffeeandcrumbs 19:39, 12 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support - The article is indeed well-written and sourced, and covers a major scientific first, the extremely close-up observation of our sun. Global significance, and ITN-worthy. Jusdafax (talk) 20:13, 12 August 2018 (UTC)
• Posted Stephen 02:47, 13 August 2018 (UTC)

August 11

Portal:Current events/2018 August 11

August 11, 2018 (2018-08-11) (Saturday) Armed conflicts and attacks War in Afghanistan, Ghazni offensive Fighting continues around the city of Ghazni. (Reuters) Disasters and accidents The death toll from heavy floods that triggered landislides in Kerala, India, which started on 8 July, rises to 37. (India.com) International relations Foreign relations of Uzbekistan, War in Afghanistan A delegation of the Taliban political office in Doha, Qatar, has visited Uzbekistan from 7 to 10 August and met with officials at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Both parties "exchanged views of prospects of the peace process in Afghanistan". (The Hindu) (Uzbekistan Ministry of Foreign Affairs) Law and crime List of foreign nationals detained in North Korea, Japan–North Korea relations A Japanese man is taken into custody in North Korea with Tokyo trying to gather information about the case. (The Japan Times) LGBT rights in Russia According to the Russian LGBT Network campaign group, a 16-year-old person becomes the first minor to be prosecuted under the Russian gay propaganda law. (The Independent) Politics and elections Thousands of people protest in Tunis against a government report on gender equality that proposes, among other things, to legalize homosexuality and to make the sexes equal in inheritance matters. (Al Araby) U.S. Representative Chris Collins (R–NY) announces that he is suspending his campaign for re-election in the 2018 midterms, intending to serve out the remainder of his term. Collins was arrested by the FBI on August 8 on charges relating to insider trading. (CNN)

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(Posted) RD: V. S. Naipaul

Article: V. S. Naipaul (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): VS Naipaul Nobel prize-winning British author, dies aged 85
Credits:

• Nominated by Ihcoyc (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Nobel Prize winning British novelist of Indian extraction. Article would appear to be reasonably referenced but for the bibliography, which probably could be moved to a separate list. We tend to drop the ball on subjects like him. Smerdis of Tlön - killing the human spirit since 2003! 00:46, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

• Support, with the obvious qualifying comment: calling Naipaul a "British novelist of Indian extraction" misses the fact that he was born and raised in Trinidad and Tobago (as were his parents) and that he wrote extensively about Trinidad and Tobago and the Caribbean. Guettarda (talk) 03:45, 12 August 2018 (UTC)
• A belated support. Bibliography now referenced and rest of article was in reasonable shape. Capitalistroadster (talk) 05:23, 12 August 2018 (UTC)
• Comment Have added refs to the bibliography. yorkshiresky (talk) 13:14, 12 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support Article now in suitable condition, marking "ready". Spencer^T•C 18:37, 12 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support indeed, good to go. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:06, 12 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support I am working on fixing some pesky errors in citation but this is more than ready to post. Question: Is there a possibility of a blurb. His significance in the literary world seems very huge. I have seen several books dedicated solely to reviews of his work (more than those listed on out article and there is the nobel to boot. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 20:55, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

I would say probably not. Blurbs are extremely limited. Was he the greatest author in a major genre, or among the top five living authors last week? ghost 12:48, 13 August 2018 (UTC)

• Please post, user:admin ---Sluzzelin talk 22:54, 12 August 2018 (UTC)
• Posted. Black Kite (talk) 22:59, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

(Posted) 2018 Kerala floods

Article: 2018 Kerala floods (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ At least 79 people have died and nearly 85,000 people have been displaced due to heavy rainfall in Kerala, India. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ More than 100 people have died in devastating monsoon floods in India's southern state of Kerala, the worst in almost a century.
News source(s): Zee News
Credits:

• Nominated by Sherenk1 (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Blacku22 (talk · give credit) and Naveenpf (talk · give credit)

Article needs updating

Nominator's comments: Article still developing. All five gates of Idduki dam were opened. Sherenk1 (talk) 15:43, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

• Support notable Openlydialectic (talk) 15:55, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
• Comment: Article needs expansion; too short in current state. Spencer^T•C 19:03, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
• Comment Copy edited the hook. Story seems ITN noteworthy. No opinion on the article yet.--- Coffeeandcrumbs 19:45, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support but the article can use quite a lot of work. I wouldn't link it from anything at the current state. Juxlos (talk) 23:14, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose stub. Browsing "in private" with no tracking history or other suggestion engines influence, I'm not seeing this story "In the news". --LaserLegs (talk) 00:14, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

  It should be noted that this is one of the top stories on the Times of India: [4], which is the world's largest circulation English Language newspaper. --Jayron32 17:52, 13 August 2018 (UTC)

  Times of India is focusing India-centric news? I'm one voice, my feed shows a stolen plane in Seattle, a shooting in Canada, the Turkish economy, but no floods in India. --LaserLegs (talk) 20:08, 13 August 2018 (UTC)

  All news is "X"-centric, where "X" is where the news is published. Just because you don't live there doesn't mean it isn't important. Your personal experience in the world is not universal. --Jayron32 12:55, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

  "Just because you don't live there doesn't mean it isn't important." The section is "In the news" not "Recent disasters which I think are important". Agree 100% with the rest of your statement. Let's not clutter another nom with this discussion, if you think I'm wrong to check that a nom is "in the news" (insofar as I can) and leave feedback to that effect, please ping me on my talk page or open an RFC at WT:ITN. --LaserLegs (talk) 13:21, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

  I don't think it's important. I have no say in the matter, and hold no opinion. The Times of India does think it important, which I confirmed. They are a genuine, reliable, major news source. --Jayron32 16:07, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose Article is in no condition to appear on the main page. Large sections unreferenced, large amounts of grammar and writing issues, in some places semi-incomprehensible ("Heavy rain in Wayanad makes big disasters and Ghat road smashed"). Some content copied verbatim from sources. [5] Black Kite (talk) 13:22, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

• It's actually getting worse - "In addition to the second installment of Rs 80.25 crores of SDRF" - what's SDRF then? And a whole unsourced section has now appeared. Black Kite (talk) 11:09, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

• Support Initially I opposed because the article didn't met ITN-standards (quality wise) but now it has been improved and I think it should be posted citing to the massive media coverage the news is getting from across the globe.Amirk94391 (talk) 02:37, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support only if the article is improved. The subject is worth posting. The article needs to be improved to post to the main page. If the orange tags are fixed in due time, consider this a support !vote. Brendon the Wizard ✉️ ✨ 21:28, 12 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support the Carr fire displaced 38k people and is posted to Ongoing. Since this displayed more, why shouldn't it be posted also? Banedon (talk) 03:39, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
  • The population density of Kerala is 2200/sq mi, the population density of Shasta County, California is 46/sq mi -- it seems obvious that the Indian state would have more people displaced. Interestingly, the huge disparity in populations serves to highlight the devastating impact of the Carr fire on Shasta County, CA (whose total pop is only 180k). --LaserLegs (talk) 13:56, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
    • Is the impact of a fire measured by how large an area is burned or how many people are displaced? Banedon (talk) 22:44, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
      • Yes. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:48, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
• Weak oppose for now, it looks much improved based on the above comments, but the "Responses" section has quotes with no sources. That needs fixing. If that is fixed, consider this a full support. --Jayron32 17:48, 13 August 2018 (UTC)

"Heavy rain in Wayanad makes big disasters and Ghat road smashed." The grammar in these ESL languages... --LaserLegs (talk) 20:08, 13 August 2018 (UTC)

As good as many DYKs loaded for the main page that I see. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:27, 13 August 2018 (UTC)

• Strong support 75 people died in a week . https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/kochi/kerala-floods-live-updates-situation-serious-in-many-districts/liveblog/65403405.cms
• Support. I've just spent some time tidying the article and adding a load of citations. It's now mostly cited and looking in much better shape. As the worst flood in Kerala in nearly a century, and very much 'in the news', I think this is worth placing in ITN. Pinging opposers LaserLegs, Black Kite, Amirk94391, and Jayron32 for 2nd thoughts. Sam Walton (talk) 12:44, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
  • Someone created the "Relief aids" section: " Businessmen to various film actors from the South Indian film industry have donated to the CMs Relief Fund." --LaserLegs (talk) 16:30, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support The article has now national importance an i support to be published under the news. The article has currently provided with inline citations and improved. So i support this nomination now.-Jinoy Tom Jacob (talk) 13:50, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
• Comment - Added alt blurb. Removed material which was not sourced. Sherenk1 (talk) 00:13, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
• Comment - Should it be added as ongoing, since the floods seem to still be occuring? CNN --- Rotruthseeker (talk) 00:42, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
  • Comment - And after the floods are over should it then perhaps be added as a full blurb? If it's added now with the August 11th date the article will have the last position in the news list and not last very long. ---- Rotruthseeker (talk) 00:47, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
• The article need more dates as to when the events actually happened. Stephen 03:15, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
• Strong support. Cites all looks good and is a good to go now. The Herald (Benison) (talk) 14:16, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
• Strong support. Cites all looks good and is a good to go now. I fixed some minor reference formatting. GTG. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 14:30, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
• Posted Opposition was about article quality, which seems to have been addressed. – Muboshgu (talk) 14:31, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

(Closed) 2018 Horizon Air Q400 incident

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Article: 2018 Horizon Air Q400 incident (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A Bombardier Dash 8 aircraft (pictured) is stolen from Seattle–Tacoma International Airport, United States and crashes, killing the pilot. (Post)
News source(s): (BBC News Online)
Credits:

• Nominated by Mjroots (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Bohbye (talk · give credit)

Nominator's comments: Unusual incident, not the run of the mill plane crash. Mjroots (talk) 06:25, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose this is perfect DYK material. Once it's expanded beyond the current stub state. The Rambling Man (talk) 06:44, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose Fully agree with The Rambling Man Openlydialectic (talk) 08:00, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose - seems more apt at DYK. Stormy clouds (talk) 08:20, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose this is interesting, but not the sort of thing for ITN, more along the lines of DYK material. SamaranEmerald (talk) 12:00, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose – Per previous – sgt snow. Sca (talk) 13:56, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

RD: Bernard Burke

Article: Bernard F. Burke (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

• Weak oppose three dab links need addressing and the proseline is frankly despicable. Otherwise just about passable. The Rambling Man (talk) 06:46, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose The chronology is totally fucked. Every sentence is true and verifiable but jumbled together it becomes nonsensical. I tried for a full hour to descramble it and I have a headache now. His biography jumps back and forth entire decades with no logic. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 11:47, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
  • @Coffeeandcrumbs: Just to say thank you for your edits, and sorry for causing you a headache! Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 01:18, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Takeshi Onaga

Article: Takeshi Onaga (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [6] [7]
Credits:

• Updated and nominated by HaEr48 (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 HaEr48 (talk) 06:23, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

• Weakish support brief, not brilliant, but adequate. The Rambling Man (talk) 06:48, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support the article is okay. The person was a standing governor of a large province in a large country. so quite notable. Openlydialectic (talk) 07:57, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
• What are "Japanese neocons"? Can this be either explained in the text or linked to a WP page which explains? MurielMary (talk) 10:47, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

  I have wikilinked it to Neoconservatism in Japan. Pawnkingthree (talk) 15:05, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

• Support Looks good to go. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 23:20, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
• Posted (8 August was the day he died). --Tone 08:11, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

August 10

Portal:Current events/2018 August 10

August 10, 2018 (2018-08-10) (Friday) Armed conflicts and attacks War in Afghanistan, Ghazni offensive A large-scale military offensive is launched by the Taliban in a bid to overrun the southeastern city of Ghazni, a provincial capital on the Kabul–Kandahar Highway. They manage to take control of a part of the city. (The New York Times) International relations Foreign relations of Colombia Colombia announces its withdrawal from the Union of South American Nations after having suspended its membership in the organization since April 2018. (CNN) Turkey–United States relations, 2018–2021 Turkish currency and debt crisis U.S. President Donald Trump authorizes the doubling of Section 232 tariffs on imports of aluminium and steel from Turkey, to 20% and 50% respectively. The Turkish lira further falls to a new record low against the U.S. dollar and Turkish stocks tumble. (CNBC) Law and crime Fredericton shooting At least four people, including two police officers, are killed in a mass shooting in Fredericton, Canada. (BBC) Glyphosate § Legal cases A jury in the U.S. state of California awards $289 million to a man who claims that his terminal cancer was caused by Monsanto's glyphosate-containing weed killer. (BBC) 2018 Horizon Air Q400 incident An airport mechanic steals a Horizon Air Bombardier Q400 from Seattle–Tacoma International Airport in the United States, eventually crashing the plane on Ketron Island. (CBS News) Politics and elections 2017–2018 Romanian protests 452 people are injured in clashes between protesters and police during an anti-government meeting in Bucharest, Romania. (Știrile Pro TV) United Nations Development Group The United Nations General Assembly confirms Michelle Bachelet, former President of Chile, to succeed Zeid Raad Al Hussein as the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights. The decision to appoint her for a four-year term, starting September 1, was made by consensus after her nomination by UN Secretary-General António Guterres. (TASS) Terrorism in the United Kingdom Lewis Ludlow pleads guilty to financing and planning a terrorist van attack in London, England. (BBC) The Supreme Court of Costa Rica rules that a ban on same-sex marriage is illegal, and states that legislators must change the law accordingly within eighteen months. (BBC)

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(Posted) 2017–2018 Romanian protests

Article: 2017–2018 Romanian protests (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In Bucharest, more than 450 people are injured during several days of protests against the Romanian Government. (Post)
News source(s): Associated Press DW BBC Reuters
Credits:

• Nominated by Rotruthseeker (talk · give credit)

Nominator's comments: One of the biggest protests after 1989 in Romania, with major implications for the country and for the region. On August 10 2018, between 50,000 and 100,000 people (BBC: 50k+, DW: 50k-80k, NYTimes: 100k+) protested in Bucharest against the government. The protests were much more violent than usual, degenerating into fights with the gendarmes, which intervened heavily using tear gas and a water cannon (DW AP). There were also numerous reports and claims of gendarmes beating up non-violent protesters and journalists (Reuters NYTimes Hotnews.ro AP Reuters NYTimes DW). More than 450 people were injured (DW NYTimes AP). Rotruthseeker (talk) 00:38, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose - article currently has an orange maintenance tag about being updated, which has been there for eleven months. An ongoing listing is predicated on frequent quality updates, which do not appear to be the case here. The article has gone months on end without edits while the protests were concurrent. Moreover, with no end in sight, and uncertainty in what would constitute a complete end to the protests, this may rumble on indefinitely, and as such is ill-suited to ITN in my view. Stormy clouds (talk) 14:27, 11 August 2018 (UTC) - I also oppose a blurb, since the nomination has been retooled. Stormy clouds (talk) 20:16, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

Comment - also worth noting that this article was posted in [[Wikipedia:In_the_news/Candidates/February_2017#[Posted]_2017_Romanian_protests|February 2017]] when the protests were at their zenith, and there were 500,000+ protesters. They have receded to anywhere from 30,000 to 110,000 now, and had stalled dramatically until yesterday. Stormy clouds (talk) 14:31, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

Comment - dear Stormy clouds, thank you very much for looking into this issue! Regarding the ongoing nature of the protests, there I am also not sure how it should be handled with regards to ITN. Regarding the maintananace tag, we mobilized on /r/romania on reddit and started to update the page with new information about the latest protest. Regarding the number of protestors, some sources say 100,000+ (new york times, deutsche welle) other say 30,000-50,000 (bbc). I've posted a quick timelapse video of the protests below to give an idea of the size of the protests. Again, thank you very much for your time and for looking into this issue! :) Rotruthseeker (talk) 14:53, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

Comment - BBC has now updated the numbers to over 50,000 people, with more than 400 injured: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45156598 Rotruthseeker (talk) 15:46, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

• Comment Tried to fix the hook a little. No opinion yet on article quality but the news seems ITN-worthy.--- Coffeeandcrumbs 14:34, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

• Comment Here is also a timelapse of the protest, which might help to give an idea about the magnitude of the protest and about what happened there: https://www.facebook.com/pressoneromania/videos/2116312888628908 ---  Rotruthseeker (talk) 14:43, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

• Comment Protests continued today (11 August 2018) across the country. Estimates range from 50,000 to 100,000 protesters over the whole country, with about 35,000 to 60,000 in Bucharest. (G4Media.ro hotnews.ro digi24.ro ) Rotruthseeker (talk) 20:05, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

Please also update the lead section. There is too much focus on 2017. We to add some summary of the activity in 2018. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 20:07, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

on it --- Rotruthseeker (talk) 20:11, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

I've updated the lead section to include a summary of the activity in 2018 and also of the events leading up to it. --- Rotruthseeker (talk) 21:35, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

Support No more orange tags in the article, and the August 2018 events are ITN-worthy (six digit participation numbers along with 400+ new injuries is certainly a newsworthy new development in this conflict) Brendon the Wizard ✉️ ✨ 21:26, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

• Support per BrendonTheWizard. Banedon (talk) 22:05, 12 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support The news is ITN-worthy and the article also looks good. Amirk94391 (talk) 04:47, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support per WP:HEY. I have monitored this article and news for severals days and I believe it is ready to post. I was waitng for significant improvements since the page has been dormant for a while and those improvements have been done by me and others. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 16:56, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose if this is supposed to be ongoing, wrong kind of nom. If it's supposed to be a story, it's stale and really quite inconsequential, let's not kid ourselves, "452 injured" actually meant "70 people" going to hospital. That so6unds like a bad day out at the football, not newsworthy. As noted before, this is something that's already been highlighted last year, and this update is minor. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:48, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
• Comment Dear @The Rambling Man: thank you very much for taking the time to consider the nomination! It was definitely a very bad day, with a scale of violence that I think was unheard of in Romania since the 1990s Mineriads. I've read numerous reports of journalists, foreign correspondents, passersby, tourists and many others being brutally assaulted. When I get back home later today, I'll also link some videos and update the article (with referenced sources of course) to give perhaps a better idea of what happened. Later edit: And of course, I'll also offer references for the claims made in this comment. --- Rotruthseeker (talk) 19:13, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
• Comment Here are some examples showing how this protest was remarkably violent in comparison to all previous 2017-2018 Romanian protests:

Several RS and YouTube videos showing the violent nature of the incident

- An Austrian cameraman from the Austrian national public broadcaster ORF was beaten up by gendermes. ORF NYTimes Hotnews.ro - Israeli tourists were dragged out of a taxi and beaten up by riot police. Washington Post NYTimes Digi24.ro with video of the incident - Hotnews.ro journalist was beaten up by riot police. Hotnews.ro Videos: - gendarme attacking man who is holding his hands up and saying he is going home: Youtube - protester on the ground being beaten up by gendermes: Youtube - gendarme beating up protester: Youtube - 2 gendermes get trapped in the protester crowd - some protesters try to protect them, some try to beat them up: Youtube Additionally, if you have the time, here is a journalist account that shows how the protests degenerated into violence (with English subtitles available): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OF4fu3BS_Vc There were also notable foreign reactions to the protest: - Austrian Chancellor Sebastian Kurz: "We strongly condemn the violent confrontations in #Bukarest, at which numerous protesters and journalists were injured. We expect a full explanation [Aufklärung]. We wish a speedy recovery to the injured #ORF cameraman." (own translation) - Twitter - Amnesty International called for "prompt, thorough, independent and impartial investigations by civilian authorities into the allegations of unnecessary and excessive use of force by the gendarmerie against participants of a protest in Bucharest on 10 August" Amnesty - Beate Meinl-Reisinger, the head of the Austrian liberal party NEOS asked Hans van Baalen, the president of ALDE in the European Parliament, to remove the Romanian governing party sharing the same name from the European Parliament ALDE group. - Mediafax.ro --- Rotruthseeker (talk) 22:23, 13 August 2018 (UTC)

Dear Rotruthseeker, I get it, but it's not something I think is worthy of the main page of English language Wikipedia. But I do appreciate your efforts in educating me. All the best. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:29, 13 August 2018 (UTC)

TRM, I do not completely disagree with your opinion but I have to take exception to the characterization "English language Wikipedia". I hope you are not saying this is less news-worthy because English is not the native tongue in Romania or that it is of less interest to the English world. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 22:35, 13 August 2018 (UTC)

Dear @The Rambling Man: no worries! I'm just trying to bring here all the necessary relevant information, so that people with way more Wikipedia experience than me (I'm still getting the hang of wikipidia-ing, sorry if I make any mistakes) can make the right decision. Best wishes --- Rotruthseeker (talk) 22:37, 13 August 2018 (UTC)

Rotruthseeker no, you've made no mistakes at all, and thank you for your efforts! The Rambling Man (talk) 22:40, 13 August 2018 (UTC)

• Comment I've updated the article's August 2018 section, in case you would like to give it a final chance --- Rotruthseeker (talk) 00:04, 15 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support Updates are substantial and well-sourced. Marking as Needs Attention, as I think there is sufficient support for this to get an admin ruling rather then being allowed to go stale. ghost 11:34, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
• Posted Stephen 23:14, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

(Closed) 2018 Fredericton shootings

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Article: 2018 Fredericton shootings (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ At least four people are killed in a mass shooting in Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada. (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

• Nominated by The Rambling Man (talk · give credit)

Nominator's comments: Still at micro-stub stage as this is breaking news, but the infrequency of such attacks makes this newsworthy, and it's certainly getting global coverage already. The Rambling Man (talk) 12:46, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose Everyday occurrence in the North America Openlydialectic (talk) 13:51, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
  • Uhhhhh? What? Really? Canada is a sovereign nation with it's own laws and culture, it is distinct from the United States no matter how much you'd like to think otherwise. --LaserLegs (talk) 14:12, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support. – Illegitimate Barrister (talk • contribs), 13:52, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
• Wait we can't post a one-line stub. This type of incident is extremely rare in Canada, and the story is in the news today. --LaserLegs (talk) 14:13, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
• Wait as incident is ongoing. --Jenda H. (talk) 14:19, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose barring any unusual aspects that may come about. It's been confirmed two of the dead are police officers while the suspect is in custody, and the situation is basically centered on a household in a suburban area, so it wasn't like a random busy street shooting like the one a couple weeks back. This sounds like a domestic situation gone unfortunately wrong. --Masem (t) 14:20, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose – Per Masem. – Sca (talk) 14:25, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
• Neutral - it's made international headlines, e.g. in the UK Guardian, but as Masem says, ultimately it's not a very big story. Article certainly needs a lot of expansion to be considered worth posting anyway.  — Amakuru (talk) 15:06, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose mass shootings in Canada are not an everyday occurrence. That being said, this one does not rise to the level of ITN. Lepricavark (talk) 15:35, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support Article seems to have been expanded to an acceptable level compared to when the above opposes were written, subject is a current event being covered sufficiently by reliable news sources. --Jayron32 18:18, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support. Article is in good shape and the event is in the news. -- Tavix ^(talk) 18:29, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose minor shooting that will likely have little impact, will likely fall out of media coverage within the next few days. SamaranEmerald (talk) 18:46, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
• Comment even if mass shootings are less common in Canada than in the US, it seems odd for a shooting with 10 children killed compared to one with 4 adults. Alex of Canada (talk) 20:29, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

 • I'm not aware of any rationale for assigning wider significance to this shooting solely because it occurred in Canada. In the first day of its presence on the news cycle, no RS reports raised questions of terrorism or other ideologically driven motives. Sca (talk) 21:33, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

I'm not aware of any rationale for assigning wider significance to any loss of life solely because of where it occurred, the age of the victims, the profession of the victims... I wish we'd start considering topics as a whole, instead of relying on WP:BODYCOUNT. --LaserLegs (talk) 00:06, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

• Weak Support - four fatalities mean that it is unlikely that this will have too much lasting impact. However, the fact that policemen are amongst the deceased, coupled with the rarity of such incidents in the Great North, mean that this seems to be just significant enough for ITN in my eyes. Stormy clouds (talk) 21:49, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose pursuant to the claim that mass shootings are not common in Canada, I just searched for it and it turns out the last one that made the news was on 23 July [8]. Even if they're not common they're certainly not uncommon. I'd need to see some kind of lasting impact or ongoing coverage to support this. Banedon (talk) 22:05, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose ITN is supposed to take us to high quality articles. That one is rubbish. It tells me almost nothing about what has really happened, and who apart from police officers was actually killed. Maybe we can include it when more information is known but certainly not now. HiLo48 (talk) 01:26, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose Just a small deaths. That's it. BSrap (talk) 05:12, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
• Comment - article has been moved to Fredericton shooting. ansh666 06:15, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

  Back again, as predicted. The Rambling Man (talk) 10:23, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose had this been 100 km to the southwest this wouldn't be news at all. Juxlos (talk) 13:26, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

⇒ Not gonna fly. Suggest close. Sca (talk) 14:00, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Ongoing: Turkish currency and debt crisis, 2018

Article: Turkish currency and debt crisis, 2018 (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item nomination (Post)
News source(s): CNBC
Credits:

• Nominated by Chrisclear (talk · give credit)

Article updated

Nominator's comments: ongoing currency crisis; significant fall in Lira in the last 24 hours. Article was an ongoing item in June when the crisis was not as severe. Chrisclear (talk) 12:30, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose mostly because WP:PROSELINE but also because the Lira has been slipping for a while now, I don't know when this is no longer "ongoing". Propose a blurb and cleanup the article a bit I'd support that. --LaserLegs (talk) 12:44, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
  • Support per Jayron32, though I still think it's better suited for a blurb than ongoing. --LaserLegs (talk) 14:22, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
• Weak oppose at the moment, there are still little day-to-day updates when considering for Ongoing. 3 updates in last 10 days. Usually we have more than that. --Tone 12:47, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose the pound continues to "tumble" against the Euro because of Brexit, but we'd never consider that for ITN, nor would we ever consider such a sparsely updated article either. The Rambling Man (talk) 12:50, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

• Comment Part of the reason why an article about the Pound would not be considered is that its value against the Euro has remained little changed over the past 12 months, (not sure where you get the "tumble" idea from?) in the middle of an (approx.) 10% range. Whereas the Lira has declined by more than 10% against the US Dollar and the Euro in the last 24 hours. Chrisclear (talk) 13:28, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

• Weak Support Article is about as current event which is frequently being updated, no issues with referencing. There's enough prose text to balance the timeline of events; though I would like to see some of the highlights of the timeline also added to the prose sections as well. The existence of a timeline in addition to quality prose is not a game-killer for me, WP:PROSELINE is primarily about using a timeline in lieu of real prose, or more to the point of formatting a timeline to give the illusion that it is real prose. --Jayron32 13:32, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose – Currency market machinations are unpredictable. If Turkey were to devalue the lira, it might be worth ITN. Sca (talk) 14:31, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

• Comment What does "If Turkey were to devalue the lira" mean? The lira, like the US Dollar, is a freely floating currency. It is not fixed to anything. Chrisclear (talk) 14:39, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

National policy has an effect on currency value through Monetary policy. They can't peg the lira to something, but they can devalue it by using their national bank to play around with the money supply. All national banks do this all the time. --Jayron32 15:02, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

Quantitative easing and quantitative tightening can be used adeptly to manipulate the value of a fiat currency. Alter the supply, shift equilibrium and ergo demand, reduce "worth" in the eyes of currency markets. If there is more money in circulation, there is a detrimental effect on value, and vice versa. Stormy clouds (talk) 21:57, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose per IAR: All other arguments aside, this has been on the MP long enough. If your economy is in the toilet in June, it's going to be in the toilet in August. It would be decidedly more newsworthy if it suddenly wasn't. ghost 17:16, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose per Sca - currencies fluctuate all the time. While severe, the fall in the lira isn't unprecedented or particularly worthy of a listing at ITN. If it goes the way of the pengő, perhaps, but not now. Stormy clouds (talk) 21:57, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
• Weak oppose seems to me (according to the source in the nom) the actual news item should be "Trump doubles metal tariffs on Turkey". The Lira crashing is just a consequence of Trump's action. I've now seen more than enough coverage of this to switch to support. It genuinely appears like an ongoing issue, and will be ongoing for a while longer. Banedon (talk) 22:18, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

Erdoğan did far more damage to the Lira than Rump. --LaserLegs (talk) 00:21, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

Comment The source article was just one of many that exist. And as Laserlegs points out, the Lira had its huge declines mainly for other reasons - the tariff decision just made it worse. Chrisclear (talk) 03:43, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

• Support This may be a case of personally selective input, but I can't seem to escape news of the Turkish lira and was surprised it wasn't already included ITN. This is a current event spanning multiple days with multiple interconnected story angles impacting a major developing economy and with transnational consequences (US steel tariffs, American prisoners, Turkish domestic politics, Turkish-NATO relations, etc.) all of which are, more or less, chronicled in the article. Chetsford (talk) 16:46, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support -I too notice this story continues to crop up in the media, lasting significantly longer in the news cycle than other economic news of this type. The impact is global, and I suggest we give this a run as an ongoing item. Jusdafax (talk) 19:24, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
• Comment what is the actual impact of a collapse of Turkish currency that we haven't already seen before? The Rambling Man (talk) 22:41, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
  • Hard to say: They're a NATO country and are absorbing the flood of refugees from the ME trying to get to the EU. Worst case? Another "arab spring" situation maybe, if inflation takes hold and unemployment skyrockets. --LaserLegs (talk) 00:33, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

(Posted) Dahyan bus bombing

Articles: Dahyan bus bombing (talk · history · tag) and Saudi Arabian-led intervention in Yemen (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In the Saudi Arabian-led intervention in Yemen, Saudi Armed forces bomb a school bus in Dahyan killing at least 29 children and injuring at least 30 others. (Post)
News source(s): BBC NYT The Guardian
Credits:

• Nominated by Openlydialectic (talk · give credit)

Nominator's comments: Happened just about 10+ hours ago. I've just created the article and any help with it would be appreciated, but I strongly think the event would pass the notability guideline, especially since the death numbers are just preliminary. Per Al Jazeera, local Red Cross chief said at least 50 people died. And the 29 dead are all children under 15 years old. Also, this would make Saudi Arabia one of the few countries in the recent memory to score it into the ITN template 2 times in a row! Openlydialectic (talk) 01:27, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

• Support in principle, but article requires major expansion required as nominator mentions. Hrodvarsson (talk) 01:42, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support if expanded a little. I modified the hook slightly for length. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 05:58, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support on principle - we know there were children among the dead and injured, but looking at the state of reporting right now, the numbers of dead/injured are unclear, why the bus and children were there was unclear (I've seen coming back from a picnic, I've seen going off to summer camp), and the reaction by the Saudis needs to be clear as they were claiming it was a legitimate strike. This just needs probably a bit more time (half a day) for details to settle to one general version. --Masem (t) 06:10, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
• Support - As per above. Sherenk1 (talk) 06:12, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
• Posted --Jayron32 10:43, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
• Comment way down the list in my top 20 stories today, and there isn't much to the article (minus reactions section) --LaserLegs (talk) 12:43, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

best to let this go. This tangent has played itself out. --Jayron32 18:20, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Do you just not care about the fact that 29 children were killed?--WaltCip (talk) 12:46, 10 August 2018 (UTC) Not especially, not any more so than people of any age killed for cruel and unnecessary reasons. Posting this blurb to ITN wont' bring them back, nor will it prevent future atrocities. --LaserLegs (talk) 14:17, 10 August 2018 (UTC) Hardly surprising the slaughter of 29 kids is being suppressed by US-led news outlets. The Rambling Man (talk) 12:51, 10 August 2018 (UTC) Not being suppressed at all, just way down the page. It's not a secret that the Saudis are targeting civilians in Yemen or that their arms are supplied by the USA. What is the WP:MINIMUMAGE for mass slaughter significance? --LaserLegs (talk) 14:17, 10 August 2018 (UTC) Yes, that's called "suppression", pushing bad news stories about one's militaristic allies to a footnote. Bravo! The Rambling Man (talk) 14:19, 10 August 2018 (UTC) Notably "My experience tells me this isn't important to me" is not the same thing as saying that "this is not shown to be significant by coverage in the news". Personal experience and personal interest are not relevant to these discussions, content of source material is. --Jayron32 13:34, 10 August 2018 (UTC) The section is "In the news", I didn't see it "In the news" is all. I'm one voice, out of many. --LaserLegs (talk) 14:17, 10 August 2018 (UTC) Again, it's not what you see. It's what is. There are three, legitimate, bona fide news sources listed above. Just because you hadn't personally seen those sources doesn't mean they don't exist, and you could remedy the problem of your own lack of knowledge by looking at them. --Jayron32 14:26, 10 August 2018 (UTC) Sure, but there are bona fide news sources about everything - even the electric scooter menace in California. I rely on the aggregators Bing and Google to bubble stories up to the top, instead of applying my own bias. Yes, those aggregators are geo-centric, ok, but we have contributors from everywhere. --LaserLegs (talk) 14:30, 10 August 2018 (UTC) Those aggregators are your bias. They feed you stories they think you are interested in based on various analysis of your online presence. That's why they are worthless for assessing the story. The evidence shows that this is a top news story, and that evidence exists outside your personal experience. Small, human interest stories like California Scooters are not covered as top stories in internationally renowned news sources the way this story is. That you refuse to accept evidence because your pre-conceived notions and individual experience doesn't conform to that evidence is the problem here. Just remember that your attitude and behavior makes your contributions to these discussions irrelevant, and admins will treat them as such. I only am carrying on this discussion as a means to inform you of the proper way to do things. I consider you properly educated in such matters, and you should not thus be surprised when your contributions here are ignored repeatedly; which will continue unless and until you get on board with the way things work. --Jayron32 14:59, 10 August 2018 (UTC) I browse "in private" so that I don't get their recommended content based on my habits. All I did here was point out that the article was thin, and that it didn't bubble up in my news feed. Oh well. --LaserLegs (talk) 15:02, 10 August 2018 (UTC) Probably because half the Western alliance participates in the Saudi invasion of Yemen. Openlydialectic (talk) 13:53, 10 August 2018 (UTC) Nope, no mass conspiracy, it's just another grim footnote in a long running unlawful conflict. --LaserLegs (talk) 14:17, 10 August 2018 (UTC) For what it's worth, the story was the lead story on the UK BBC website when it happened, and it's still on the front page now, some 36 hours later. Black Kite (talk) 14:40, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

• Weak support, post-posting – I was reluctant to support a stub, which should be expanded, but that fact that the victims were kids heightens the significance of this crime, even in Yemen. (Please, no more flag salad! That's padding.) – Sca (talk) 14:43, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
• PP Support the investigation into the heinous crime has been "initiated" by Saudi and that's front page news. QED. The Rambling Man (talk) 14:46, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

Yes – a commentator on DW News Thurs. cited apparent "ineptitude" on the part of the Saudi military. Sca (talk) 15:04, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

Wow, there's ineptitude, then there's Saudi military ineptitude. The Rambling Man (talk) 15:53, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

Say whaat? Sca (talk) 21:38, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

I've been exposed to some of their "abilities" first hand. The Rambling Man (talk) 10:24, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

• Post-posting support we posted Saudi Arabia's hissy fit response to a Canadian tweet and IMO the murder of nearly 30 children is far more newsworthy. Lepricavark (talk) 15:33, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
• Post-posting support I'll be honest, if we posted every time Saudi Arabia bombed a hospital in Yemen, a school for blind students in Yemen, or just somewhere filled with innocent Yemeni civilians, every time the Saudi's ally UAE was found to have raped innocent Yemeni women with bayonets, every time the Saudi-US coalition prevented food and medicine from entering the country using their naval blockade while a million civilians starve during a man-made cholera outbreak, that would be all we post to ITN (not saying they're not worthy though, these kinds of outlandish human rights abuses absolutely are and deserve much more attention and I would not !vote against any of them). This one is particularly notable, because it's getting much more media coverage than the rest of them and it's already proved itself to be front page news. Brendon the Wizard ✉️ ✨ 18:12, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
• Post-posting support per above. Tragic story, plenty of coverage. Davey2116 (talk) 20:29, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
• Post-post comment @Jayron32: or any admin: Can you update the blurb: In the [[Saudi Arabian-led intervention in Yemen]], Saudi armed forces execute '''[[Dahyan air strike|an air strike on a school bus in Dahyan]]''' killing at least 50 people, 29 of which were children.

In the Saudi Arabian-led intervention in Yemen, Saudi armed forces execute an air strike on a school bus in Dahyan killing at least 50 people, 29 of which were children.

The page has moved and I want to make it absolutely clear that is was a (despicable) air strike. We should also reflect the preliminary total number of deaths.--- Coffeeandcrumbs 23:58, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

I strongly oppose listing the children separately -- ALL deaths are tragic, be it children, women, the elderly, journalists, or successful middle aged white men on their way to pick up a luxury sedan -- ALL people are equal, and all deaths are tragic. Highlighting the child death toll is tabloidesque, and is something ITN has refrained from doing in the past. --LaserLegs (talk) 00:09, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

Valid point. However, the current blurb already highlights the children. Not sure what should be done, but I feel like the total number of deaths needs to be included somehow. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 01:23, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

References

Nominators often include links to external websites and other references in discussions on this page. It is usually best to provide such links using the inline URL syntax [http://example.com] rather than using <ref></ref> tags, because that keeps all the relevant information in the same place as the nomination without having to jump to this section, and facilitates the archiving process.

For the times when <ref></ref> tags are being used, here are their contents: