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*'''Changing from wait to support''' given results are in and '''added altblurb3''' in order to reach a compromise and reflect [[WP:RS]] without [[WP:CRYSTALBALL]]. [[User:Abcmaxx|Abcmaxx]] ([[User talk:Abcmaxx|talk]]) 07:33, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
*'''Changing from wait to support''' given results are in and '''added altblurb3''' in order to reach a compromise and reflect [[WP:RS]] without [[WP:CRYSTALBALL]]. [[User:Abcmaxx|Abcmaxx]] ([[User talk:Abcmaxx|talk]]) 07:33, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
*'''Update comment on consensus status''': Currently there are 12 '''support''', versus 1 '''oppose''' 1 '''not ready'''. There are 1 '''oppose alt blurb''', 1 '''oppose 1st blurb''', 3 '''support 1st blurb''', 4 '''support alt blurb''', 1 '''support 3rd blurb'''. [[User:Zombie Philosopher|Zombie Philosopher]] ([[User talk:Zombie Philosopher|talk]]) 11:26, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
*'''Update comment on consensus status''': Currently there are 12 '''support''', versus 1 '''oppose''' 1 '''not ready'''. There are 1 '''oppose alt blurb''', 1 '''oppose 1st blurb''', 3 '''support 1st blurb''', 4 '''support alt blurb''', 1 '''support 3rd blurb'''. [[User:Zombie Philosopher|Zombie Philosopher]] ([[User talk:Zombie Philosopher|talk]]) 11:26, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
*'''Support''', '''Support''' the original blurb. So far that's all we know. Would support an update after a govenment wins a vote of confidence (probably around 26th December).[[User:Psubrat2000|Psubrat2000]] ([[User talk:Psubrat2000|talk]]) 12:37, 18 October 2023 (UTC)


====RD: Suzanne Somers====
====RD: Suzanne Somers====

Revision as of 12:38, 18 October 2023

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October 18

October 18, 2023 (2023-10-18) (Wednesday)

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October 17

October 17, 2023 (2023-10-17) (Tuesday)

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RD: Carla Bley

Article: Carla Bley (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NYT
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Iconic jazz pianist, composer, bandleader, influential in the 1960s, and last recording 2020. So far there was not much to be updated, I replaced 2 dated references for a German Award by a working one. A better lead would be nice, and more text to not have it sandwiched. I'll see what I can do, and help is welcome, especially from someone who can access the NYT obit. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:27, 18 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Al-Ahli Arabi Baptist Hospital explosion

Article: Al-Ahli Arab Hospital explosion (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Amid the 2023 Israel–Hamas war, an explosion at a hospital in Gaza kills at least 200 people. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In Gaza, at least 200 people are killed in an explosion at a hospital.
Alternative blurb II: ​ At least 200 people are killed in an explosion at a hospital in Gaza.
News source(s): CNN, Reuters
Credits:

 FatCat96 (talk) 18:14, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It is a part of the 2023 Israel–Hamas war, but 500 casualties is enough to be on the ITN in my opinion. Thats, just, a lot. Lukt64 (talk) 18:19, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
support Lukt64 (talk) 18:19, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
we didnt post every massacre done by Hamas when they were attacking, we just had a general terrorist attack blurb which then became a war. so why should we put every attack done by Israel when we already have the general war in ongoing? JM2023 (talk) 18:34, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, but this is more deadly than the entire Operation Al-Aqsa Flood. This is a big deal. Lukt64 (talk) 18:43, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
There were roughly 1,100 Israelis killed in the initial wave of attacks; I'm not sure what you mean. The Kip 18:59, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Firstly, this is not more deadly than that; over 1,100 Israelis, including many children, were slaughtered during that attack, and last I heard they were still finding bodies. Secondly, this event did not start a conflict. Thirdly, it's still included in the war. Fourthly, the article now has a POV tag and it's alleged this could be a Hamas rocket blamed on Israel; we should be especially cautious of Hamas and allies considering their massive outbursts of genocidal antisemitism recently. Unless we have a Srebrenica situation of sufficient magnitutde then I'm opposed to adding events like this. JM2023 (talk) 19:39, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
So why was the original Hamas retaliation left unpublished? Include that now too, if you will, but as long as it does not sugarcoat the larger genocide that is occurring. 500 lives is significant. This is not an irrelevant attack, but that is exactly what you are implying it to be. Support. —  Melofors  TC 01:49, 18 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support publishing it soon, but make sure it is definitively known whoever launched the attack. Most sources are saying that Israel bombed the hospital but there's claims that it was actually caused by PIJ. Either way, the destruction of over 500 lives is unimaginable and as newsworthy as the most horrible losses of life of the 21st century. HadesTTW (he/him • talk) 22:46, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose we have ongoing for this reason, and I do not see why we need a separate article for this. --Masem (t) 18:24, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose the entire Israel-Hamas War is covered in Ongoing. Also I noticed this said "massacre" before being changed to "airstrike", good because it would be POV to call it a massacre when the actual article is titled an airstrike. JM2023 (talk) 18:32, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait for several reasons: what's stated above (which is debatable, imo; we blurbed the Bucha massacre, and sometimes casualty count/impact can override the ongoing item), the fact the article is currently a stub, and most importantly, the fact that for the moment it's Hamas' word versus the Israeli government's, and neither are exactly neutral actors; independent and reputable press verification, if possible, should be sought out before blurbing. The Kip 18:34, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Update: Article is also now orange-tagged for POV, given assertions of responsibility versus reporting from reputable media. The Kip 18:58, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    The Kip, any update on this vote, given that your concerns have mostly been addressed at the article's talk? AryKun (talk) 06:26, 18 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait. If it is an airstrike on the hospital and the purported death toll is as sources are reporting, it is certainly blurbable regardless of the ongoing status. Black Kite (talk) 18:36, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Terrible tragedy but this sort of thing happens in war and the war has been posted in ongoing. On a side note we don't have a lot of hard facts from reliable sources. The numbers being quoted are almost entirely coming from Hamas or affiliated entities, none of which would pass WP:RS. I don't doubt that something dreadful has happened, but it is likely to be sometime before we get details from sources that can be trusted. -Ad Orientem (talk) 18:39, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait (leaning oppose) for reasons mentioned above. Covered in ongoing and it's not entirely clear who is responsible at the moment. This tragedy just happened and there are already unverified reports that it may have been a failed Hamas rocket (which is, imho, no more reliable than Hamas officials reporting it was an Israeli airstrike). Kcmastrpc (talk) 18:40, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Support for alt-blurb. Given the significance of media coverage and resulting events this is very much ITN-worthy. It's not even clear what the death count is at the moment, however, that's secondary to the tertiary events that unfolded immediately after the incident which are still unfolding. Kcmastrpc (talk) 12:33, 18 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Truly shocking to read, RIP to all those poor people - a war crime and a crime against humanity. Similar has also been posted relating to the Russo-Ukraine war. AnthonyIreland 19:54, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Israel is now formally denying responsibility. They are claiming that the Palestinians blew up the hospital, probably by accident, while using it as a launch site for their own missiles aimed at Israel's civilian population centers. I reaffirm my oppose. But if this is posted, the currently written blurb assigning blame to Israel cannot be used. -Ad Orientem (talk) 20:01, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Russians denyed the Bucha massacre but that wasn't enough for it not to be included in ITN section at the time. ☆SuperNinja2☆ 20:31, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Israel is probably more credible than Russia. Bucha's responsibility probably had more sources than Hamas press releases. JM2023 (talk) 21:01, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think so. Israelies have long long records of violating human rights records and using internationally prohibited weapons like white phosphorus and lying. So it's definitely not "more credible" than Russia. ☆SuperNinja2☆ 10:21, 18 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The Bucha massacre has been independently investigated by international authorities who have formally accused Russia of the atrocity. I think there is a pretty strong consensus within the community that both Hamas and the Russian government are not reliable sources on any matter of controversy. To be sure the Israelis are not saints. But when they have screwed up in the past, they have typically owned their mistakes. Ad Orientem (talk) 21:24, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
No, they never had. Drop it already. ☆SuperNinja2☆ 11:46, 18 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Covered in ongoing. Kirill C1 (talk) 20:08, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support It's an ongoing event and it's worthy of coverage in international news. Rager7 (talk) 21:41, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per above. Death toll is comparable to the Bucha massacre which we posted. Very notable event no matter who perpetrated it (The Guardian says the explosion was too large to have been Hamas), though it's probably best to wait and see if there will be more clarity on that in the coming days. Davey2116 (talk) 21:41, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    While people may compare the death toll, the significance in terms of what the event actually was is not comparable (not to imply that you did so). Bucha featured indiscriminate shooting of civilians and torture-murders of civilians including minors. There is a meaningful difference of significance. JM2023 (talk) 22:18, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Death toll is significant, and the explosion has recent a noteworthy amount of attention as a standalone event despite it being part of the 2023 Israel-Hamas War. TheInevitables (talk) 22:47, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment (partial support). While the attack is covered in the main article, this is shocking and the death toll is very high (per nom), but the attacker is still unknown. Also, I would support the alt blurb per WP:NPOV, as the original blurb says that Israel launched the airstrike, which is currently disputed. 🛧Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈) 23:23, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support posting, but Strong Oppose attributing the attack to anyone until we know more. The first suggested blurb inappropriately assigns blame. --RockstoneSend me a message! 23:23, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - First and foremost, because several pivotal info and still unknown. Who is responsible for the attack? How many people really died? We need to be responsible here, to avoid becoming a misinformation tool. We are not a news ticker, so why the rush? Let's wait until things get clear and then discuss if this is newsworthy.--Kacamata! Dimmi!!! 23:26, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose The details of the incident are disputed and we have the overall war as an ongoing entry. Note that this is a contentious topic and so we are required to "err on the side of caution". Andrew🐉(talk) 23:27, 17 October 2023 (UTC) (edit conflict)[reply]
  • Comment - I would like to make it clear that I wrote the blurb when the blame was being put on Israel, and that I will not be voicing my opinion on who is wright or who is wrong in the ongoing conflict. FatCat96 (talk) 23:51, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I would suggest you should modify the original blurb. --RockstoneSend me a message! 23:53, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Will do. FatCat96 (talk) 23:55, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support one of the altblurbs. While there is still some confusion about the cause of the explosion (though it seems highly unlikely that a Palestinian rocket could do such damage), the high death toll, the singular nature of the event, and the location being a hospital pushes it above the threshold to get something that is usually covered by an ongoing item into a new blurb. This is similar to how the Bucha massacre, which had a similar reported death toll was blurbed despite it being covered by an ongoing entry. For comparison and, while not covered by an ongoing item, the 2015 Kunduz hospital airstrike was blurbed with around 40 deaths. -- Patar knight - chat/contributions 03:15, 18 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose For the same reason I opposed most Ukraine-Russia proposals: covered by ongoing. The rationale of a massacre is not without ground but unless an actor can be definitively attributed for this I remain opposed. Gotitbro (talk) 03:37, 18 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait until the party actually responsible for the airstrike is confirmed. After that, consider my vote as a weak support. S5A-0043Talk 03:39, 18 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support the main blurb. Since our blurb doesn't assign responsibility to anyone, I don't see why we need to wait to ascertain the party responsible. Likewise, the casualties have been widely reported[1][2].VR talk 06:14, 18 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Because the determination of the responsible party changes the nature from being a mistaken explosion (Israel claim) to a massacre (Hamas claim). Gotitbro (talk) 10:11, 18 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support war crime with immense death toll regardless of who did it; also, we are probably not going to get immediate clarity on the perpetrator as we did in Bucha, because Bucha wasn't being blockaded and carpet-bombed and thus had independent investigators who could go there. We did mention the hundreds dead from Hamas' attacks in the original blurb; the reason we didn't blurb each massacre separately is the same reason why we wouldn't blurb 5 different hospitals getting bombed individually. AryKun (talk) 06:25, 18 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - Issues with the article and the unknown nature of the attack makes it difficult to make a case to blurb. If the resulting fallout of this is significant enough then I would consider Supporting. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 06:52, 18 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom Abo Yemen✉ 11:48, 18 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Same Sex marriage in India

Article: Supriyo v. Union of India (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Supreme Court of India rules that right to marriage is not fundamental (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The Supreme Court of India rules that same-sex marriage is not protected by Indian law.
News source(s): BBC The Indian Express NDTV Aljazeera
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Quite a significant news story which is getting international coverage. PrinceofPunjab (talk) 13:46, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Wait - article has not yet been updated with the case ruling ✈ mike_gigs talkcontribs 14:01, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose The court found that it didn't have the power to change the various pieces of legislation and so that was a matter for legislators. So the status quo continues and there's no significant change. Andrew🐉(talk) 14:46, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Added altblurb. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 15:10, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Didn't we just reject a story about the legal status of same-sex marriage in another country? 98.170.164.88 (talk) 16:00, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes, Mauritius SSM was rejected because not only was the blurb outright false, it wasn't a major first in anything, so it didnt meet notability benchmarks. JM2023 (talk) 16:39, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    It wasn't even SSM in Mauritus - it was the legalization of same-sex sexual relations, which had already been legalized in I believe at least nine African countries (not even counting those where it wasn't illegal in the first place). The Kip 18:27, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose we just rejected Mauritius SSM because it wasn't a major first in anything. This is even less notable -- court decides to do nothing about it and tells politicians to do something instead. Not significant enough. Also the original blurb has multiple grammatical errors (at least 3 at first glance). JM2023 (talk) 16:38, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Comment
    Understandable proposal, considering that India has over a billion people in it.
    But, mauritius Lukt64 (talk) 18:08, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support upon improvements With having the first or second largest population, this is a significant effect. Even if maintains the status quo or not the first such country to deny rights, its large enough to be a major concern overall. --Masem (t) 18:26, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Is it even "denying rights" though? seems like its just the court going "this right does not exist in the constitution". i.e. the right was denied by whoever wrote the constitution, and will be denied by parliament if it votes down a law. JM2023 (talk) 18:29, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Arguably yes, but I think that at a broad scale, denying equality in things like marriage and other rights to same sex couples (as well as other things broadly under the LGBTQ+ banner) is seen as an issue, comparable with the lack of women's rights in Middle Eastern countries, for example. and while the Court did say that the gov't should review policies to assure that while they can't grant marriages they can grant other benefits to same-sex couples, the articles I've read imply that this current Indian gov't is very much unlikely to follow those recommendations.
    I would compare this to last year's Dobbs decision from the US SC that remove abortion rights, which also claimed it wasn't in the Constitution. Masem (t) 00:23, 18 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    But that overturned a prior decision. This is what I'm trying to get at. Was SSM a constitutional right in India before this decision, the same way abortion was in the US before Dobbs? It doesn't seem notable or significant to me if not. Like if the King of the KSA was asked and said "women actually need to be subject to these laws" but its just re-affirming something that is already the case, that is not significant. JM2023 (talk) 01:15, 18 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Very weak support I can be convinced to flip my vote, but on first glance, although it doesn't change the status quo, it's the largest or second-largest nation on the planet - as such, the decision has at least some notable impact. The Kip 18:28, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose The ruling right-wing government is anti-same-sex marriage and this is obviously not going to change that. May have been blurbable had the outcome been the opposite. Black Kite (talk) 18:38, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Every time SSM is legalized it is almost invariably nominated here, and I have generally opposed over the last few years as these events have become routine. This is a fairly unusual case of the supreme court in the world's most populous democracy saying no. It is both unexpected and frankly newsworthy just by virtue of its defying the global trend in democratic societies. -Ad Orientem (talk) 18:45, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support mostly per Ad Orientem. It's considered commonplace for a nation to legalize same-sex marriage and this is unusual in that it's a more anachronistic ruling. Also, it's one of the most populous and thus most influential nations, so any ruling about same-sex marriage is therefore important. Sincerely, Novo Tape (She/Her)My Talk Page 19:34, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I wonder about that. Was SSM previously recognized by the indian SC as a fundamental right? Did this overturn a previous SC case that recognized SSM? If not, then there is nothing significant here. If another abortion case came to the SCOTUS and they ruled in a way that didn't overturn any of their prior major abortion decisions, that would not be significant. If the SC is just telling us what's in the Indian constitution without contradicting a previous decision of itself, that seems like it's not significant. What may be significant is if the Parliament of India passed a law banning SSM. JM2023 (talk) 19:55, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose This decision merely maintains the status quo and doesn't change much. TheInevitables (talk) 22:49, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - this decision doesn't change anything. If India legalizes gay marriage, I will support it. --RockstoneSend me a message! 23:27, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – Per above, nothing changes. I would support if it was legalized, but the status quo doesn't seem newsworthy to me here. DecafPotato (talk) 03:42, 18 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Ongoing removal: Russian invasion of Ukraine

(NON-ADMIN CLOSURE)
WP:SNOW, consensus to remove will clearly not develop. The Kip 14:29, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Russian invasion of Ukraine (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item removal (Post)
Nominator's comments: We have just removed the Sudan war despite the fact that the war was not over. This should also be removed. While the timeline section is being updated, it is more minor events rather than anything major. Interstellarity (talk) 13:30, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose
This isnt a civil war, its a war between the 2 largest nations in Europe. Its a bigger deal, at least geopolitically, than any African wars for now. Lukt64 (talk) 13:35, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose there is still news coverage near daily of events in this conflict, in contrast to far less significant coverage of events in the Sudan one. --Masem (t) 14:06, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Eric Tweedale

Article: Eric Tweedale (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [3]
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Australian centenarian and formerly the oldest Australia national rugby union team player  The C of E God Save the King! (talk) 09:42, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Tim Wallis

Article: Tim Wallis (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/10/17/warbirds-over-wanaka-founder-sir-tim-wallis-dies-aged-85/
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: New Zealand aviator and pioneer of the live deer recovery. 65.94.213.53 (talk) 09:31, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

October 16

October 16, 2023 (2023-10-16) (Monday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Sports

RD: Martti Ahtisaari

Proposed image
Article: Martti Ahtisaari (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Le Monde, Presidential Twitter
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: President of Finland 1994-2000, 2008 Nobel Peace Prize laureate. ✨  4 🧚‍♂am KING  08:26, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

false and fringe
Must we remind you again that ITN’s procedures, voting, etc are governed by consensus and reason, rather than what Andrew Davidson feels they should be? Shame on you, yet again. The Kip 14:27, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose on quality due to uncited material. Weak oppose blurb due to some of the concerns expressed by Kiril above. The Kip 16:50, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • This has, at best, a single-sentence update that wouldn't be redundant to the blurb: the 2021 Alzheimer's/retirement announcement. Without an announcement of the cause of death (at least not that I've found in English sources; I haven't attempted machine translation from Finnish ones), its relevance is debatable - I mean, we can guess that he died of complications of Alzheimer's, and our article as it stands implies it, but we don't know that. And we really can't post a blurb saying "Ahtisaari died at 86", linking to an article that doesn't say anything more about it than "On 16 October 2023, it was announced that Ahtisaari had died at the age of 86." Oppose blurb, insufficient update. —Cryptic 17:11, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb. Nobel prize winner, former head of state. We blurbed Gorbachev and Jiang Zemin. Kirill C1 (talk) 20:12, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

support blurb very notable figure in modern european political history and also (former) head of state. One may add the former head of state of the newest nato state and a busybody around said affairs leading up to it. (not being a tinfoil hat)37.252.95.226 (talk) 08:20, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support RD, oppose blurb - the death was not notable enough, per my interpretation of WP:ITNRDBLURB, and some of Kiril's argument above ✈ mike_gigs talkcontribs 14:05, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I still don't think it's ready to be posted on RD. For example, there are only three inline references in the long section on "Youth and early career", and the last paragraph in that section is completely uncited. 98.170.164.88 (talk) 22:23, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb - I haven't seen any news of his death on my diversified newsfeed or even ever heard of him except here. Pirate of the High Seas (talk) 02:39, 18 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb on principle, weak oppose on quality we've been blurbing a lot of heads of state deaths as of late, and we've probably blurbed too many, but this is the wrong place to start. How many heads of state have won a Nobel Peace Prize? That demonstrates the regional and international impact we look for when blurbing heads of state of minor nations. As such, I see this as a clear and obvious blurb. However, there's a few paragraphs that are uncited. I don't see that as a huge barrier because it's the least important stuff in the article that are uncited, but that should probably be taken care of before posting. NorthernFalcon (talk) 07:08, 18 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Ongoing : 2023 Sudan War (Timeline)

WP:SNOW
We've already discussed this extremely recently. We do not need another discussion now. WP:NAC BangJan1999 16:13, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: War in Sudan (2023) (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item nomination (Post)
News source(s): [4]
Credits:
Nominator's comments: It got removed yesterday [5], and even though it had been updated often it still got removed. I would recommend adding the Timeline to it like the Russian invasion of Ukraine. There was also a wide consensus AGAINST removing it.

Strong Oppose - Ongoing is for items that continuously generate news-worthy blurbs. The War in Sudan has been getting very little media coverage, barely any more than multiple other African civil wars. Ongoing isn't an armed conflict ticker. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 14:05, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose and Snowclose per user:Stephen down in the removal discussion: Removed only minor updates have been made to the article since this was nominated for removal a week ago. He then told you specifically when you demanded it be reinstated: You may want to read WP:ONGOING before you make your demands. JM2023 (talk) 14:40, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose and SNOW close I weakly supported keeping it, but consensus + guidelines dictated its removal and that’s not gonna suddenly change in a day. Sour grapes don’t constitute a valid reason for reinstatement. The Kip 16:10, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

October 15

October 15, 2023 (2023-10-15) (Sunday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

RD: M. S. Gill

Article: M. S. Gill (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Times of india
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Former Chief Election Commissioner of India Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 22:30, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) 2023 Ecuadorian general election

Proposed image
Article: 2023 Ecuadorian general election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Daniel Noboa (pictured) is elected President of Ecuador. (Post)
News source(s): Reuters, NY Times
Credits:

Article needs updating
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: Almost 90% of the votes counted. Noboa leads by almost 5 points and will win the election. Kacamata! Dimmi!!! 00:52, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Weak Support quite table-centric for the second round, only one sentence of prose in the lede about the second round, only one sentence of prose in the second round aftermath section, and the campaign section has one sentence; but per WP:ITNCRIT I think that might be OK if we consider the event to be the entire election and not just its results. Overall sourcing looks fine. Also Comment blurb has a grammatical error: should be "Noba is elected". JM2023 (talk) 02:32, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

2023 Polish parliamentary election

Article: 2023 Polish parliamentary election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ United Right wins the 2023 Polish parliamentary election but fails to get a majority of seats. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Parties opposing the ruling United Right win a majority of seats in the Polish general election.
Alternative blurb II: ​ The opposition (KO, L, TD) wins a plurality of votes against the incumbent Law and Justice in Polish general election.
Alternative blurb III: ​ The United Right led by the Law and Justice party wins a plurality of votes in the 2023 Polish parliamentary election but loses its majority to the opposition (Civic Coalition, The Left, and Third Way).
News source(s): Guardian, Politico
Credits:

The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: An election outcome and likely change in government which will have a significant impact in Europe. I am not quite sure how to phrase the blurb as its not easy to summarise things. So feel free to propose an alternate. Also should only be posted once more of the votes have been counted. Gust Justice (talk) 00:44, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose Too much WP:CRYSTAL based on exit polls and speculation about possible coalitions. Andrew🐉(talk) 08:48, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • A variant of the first blurb (PiS most votes and most seats, but loses their majority) that sticks to the facts should be used until coaliton negoations conclude. It's too early to be declaring winners or losers in wikivoice. Iffy★Chat -- 10:21, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support alternative blurb, because it states the facts, the case is clear by now; PiS is unable to form gvt. No speculation, immense significance for EU. --Wuerzele (talk) 15:13, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support for Alternative blurb. As was said, this has immense significance for EU, as well as Poland. The opposition parties have long held that PiS winning again would be the end of direct democracy. This election is seen by approximately half of Poles as that type of election, and thus hugely significant for the social and political climate of Poland. This no longer suffers WP:CRYSTAL considerations and should be added. Zombie Philosopher (talk) 16:34, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not Ready Pretty close to zero prose covering the results. Once the results are clear and the article is updated with an appropriate summary, we can post. But we are not there either in terms of all the results or article quality. -Ad Orientem (talk) 16:35, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I think the altblurbs clearly contain original research. The opposition parties that allegedly won the majority of seats didn’t form a united opposition coalition and instead run independently, and there’s really no need to regress from an encyclopaedic to a journalistic style and report something in a suggestive manner. Only the original blurb makes sense and is in accordance with the blurbs on elections posted in the past (PiS will probably win most seats but will likely fail to form a government. That’s exactly what the original blurb tells.).--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 17:07, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment the article is not ready, but, frankly, I don't mind. Basically because, in the context of Polish politics, I find it much more noticeable when those results materialize with Donald (the better one) Tusk becoming Prime Minister, which seems very probable. _-_Alsor (talk) 20:47, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support for Alternative blurb best description for the outcome in my opinion Braganza (talk) 20:53, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, seat count is not out yet. Supporting the original blurb as altblurb1 has NPOV issues. No prose regarding reactions or aftermath, nor conduct during election as is usually typical. I'll adjust to support when issues are resolved. Ornithoptera (talk) 07:29, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Just to note full results are available as of right now. --Ouro (blah blah) 07:30, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - article looks good. I think the original blurb is best. We best not speculate as to who will form a government, even if it seems highly likely that Tusk will lead a coalition. PiS will probably get the first shot anyway since it's up to Duda to pick the first prime ministerial candidate. estar8806 (talk) ★ 11:59, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - Currently there are 7 support, versus 1 wait 1 oppose 1 not ready. The considerations of the 'wait' and 'not ready' were about final results, which are in. Hence those should be counted as null and/or support. This seems to have enough support consensus at this point to post. There are 1 oppose alt blurb, 1 oppose 1st blurb, 3 support 1st blurb, 3 support alt blurb. Consensus to post is clear, consensus for which blurb is not. However, I'm willing to change my support for alt blurb to whatever will result in posting the article. Zombie Philosopher (talk) 12:41, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Ambivalent about which blurb should be posted. It seems rather misleading to suggest that PiS "won" the election when every RS is reporting that they "are on course to be ousted", "seem set to be ousted", etc. I could support original blurb, but only if we post another blurb if/when Tusk forms his coalition government as expected. (We did the same thing after the 2017 New Zealand general election; first blurb on September 25 said "the National Party wins plurality" and the second blurb on October 20 said "Jacinda Ardern becomes PM after forming Labour–NZ First coalition".) Davey2116 (talk) 18:45, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Covered by ITN/R, and the article has enough prose other than the tables to provide context. No opinion on which blurb to choose. 98.170.164.88 (talk) 22:32, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, ambivalent on blurb but I lean ALT1 - the biggest implication of this election is the opposition winning a majority. The Kip 03:14, 18 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support for Alternative blurb. It is misleading to say United Right won the election when they don't have a majority of seats --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 06:19, 18 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Changing from wait to support given results are in and added altblurb3 in order to reach a compromise and reflect WP:RS without WP:CRYSTALBALL. Abcmaxx (talk) 07:33, 18 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Update comment on consensus status: Currently there are 12 support, versus 1 oppose 1 not ready. There are 1 oppose alt blurb, 1 oppose 1st blurb, 3 support 1st blurb, 4 support alt blurb, 1 support 3rd blurb. Zombie Philosopher (talk) 11:26, 18 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, Support the original blurb. So far that's all we know. Would support an update after a govenment wins a vote of confidence (probably around 26th December).Psubrat2000 (talk) 12:37, 18 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Suzanne Somers

Article: Suzanne Somers (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Variety
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Unsourced filmography Mooonswimmer 20:46, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose article has a giant WP:TONE tag at the top. JM2023 (talk) 03:08, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

October 14

October 14, 2023 (2023-10-14) (Saturday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology

RD: Lance Armstrong

Article: Lance Armstrong (politician) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://tasmaniantimes.com/2023/10/vale-lance-armstrong-mha/
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Tasmanian politician. 65.94.213.53 (talk) 09:03, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Dariush Mehrjui

Proposed image
Article: Dariush Mehrjui (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb:  Iranian New Wave film director Dariush Mehrjui and his wife are murdered in Karaj. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Iranian film director Dariush Mehrjui dies at 83.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Iranian film director Dariush Mehrjui and his wife are murdered in Karaj.
News source(s): cafehdanesh.com, AP, Variety, Deadline, NYT, BBC, Guardian
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Recent Deaths would be acceptable, but given the importance of the filmmaker in Iran (and in world cinema) and given the tragic circumstances, I believe that In the News would be appropriate. 98.225.20.168 (talk) 07:57, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support – Hamid Hassani (talk) 08:26, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Minor fixes to nom: Added RD and removed ITNR (which this is not). As for blurb would like to see more info on the nature of the crime before commenting. Gotitbro (talk) 08:52, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose on quality at the very least. There's an unsourced paragraph in the career section, an unsourced statement in the Cinematic style and legacy section, the filmography is wholly unsourced, and the awards section also needs more refs. Also the infobox includes his date of birth, that he has 3 children and that he has had a previous spouse that he divorced, but this isn't sourced anywhere in the prose. Additionally I'm not 100% certain on the reliability of all of the sources, at the very least there's one statement sourced to IMDb which is definitely unreliable. This needs a good amount of work to be ready for RD, and some more work on his legacy and impact would be optimal if we want to blurb it. Scientia potentia est, MonarchOfTerror 11:39, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • RD only, but oppose on quality I'm really not seeing a lot of justification here for a blurb, given how little is known around the deaths beyond having been murdered. The article is missing sourcing on the film list and a handful of statements throughout the article. Also, not thrilled how much is sourced to ref #5 there, and makes me a bit concerned if a copyvio check should be made. --Masem (t) 12:46, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose RD on quality per above, Oppose blurb on notability because there is no way the murder of a single B-list director is world news. JM2023 (talk) 13:51, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Guardian calls him prominent, Iran's culture minister also hails him [6]. Kirill C1 (talk) 06:35, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    we didn't even blurb Dianne Feinstein. Prominent people die every day, hence RD. The bar has to be higher than you propose or else ITN becomes an obituary. JM2023 (talk) 14:32, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Blurb on Notability, Oppose RD on Quality This is simply not enough to be a blurb. As for RD, the article has a lack of reliable sources. TheInevitables (talk) 16:10, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb. It is shocking to see famous film director be murdered in Iran. Kirill C1 (talk) 18:25, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Normally yes, but what we seem to know is simply that he and his wife were likely murdered, and that's it. No named suspects, no motives, etc. We hardly are providing any significant information on the death to make the blurb necessary. Masem (t) 21:19, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Procedural support for RD but oppose blurb, per the recent consensus in favor of restricting RDBs and my own opinion that it should be restricted to heads of state/government of major powers with very narrow exceptions This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 06:06, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    There should be an RfC in response to that consensus we found in order to actually change what it says in the guidelines but I don't know what I'm doing most of the time so I'll leave it to someone else for now. In the meantime this blurb can be opposed on notability grounds anyway through current standards. JM2023 (talk) 14:34, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    When did we have consensus on a change to death blurbs? Surely you don't mean the one that's still on the talk page. GreatCaesarsGhost 17:54, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Last I saw of it, my understanding was that it looked as though most people were in favour of changing ITNRDBLURB to match ITN standards so that the death itself must be notable, and that a notable life is never necessarily a notable death. Unless it's a different one now. I am talking about the discussion started by Chaotic Enby in response to my comment under an RD blurb discussion for a death a few weeks ago. Even that discussion, despite not having changed the words of the rules, would seem to indicate most people have expressed higher standards for ITNRDBLURB notability by even current guidelines than what people often propose. JM2023 (talk) 18:01, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Nominators note: First, its been a while since I've edited, so I'm a bit rusty. Its looking more and more like this was a politically motivated murder, and may become a major news story for broader reasons. There's online chatter comparing it to a series of political murders in the 1990s, allegedly involving the Minister of Intelligence- Chain murders of Iran. I suggest giving it a day or two before rejecting based on standards of quality. I wish I had more time to work on the article myself. The murders seem to have been particularly brutal, its very disturbing. And there are four suspects in custody. I honestly don't know, is www.ncr-iran.org a reliable source?98.225.20.168 (talk) 06:20, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Piper Laurie

Article: Piper Laurie (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Hollywood Reporter
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American actress Kacamata! Dimmi!!! 23:00, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Gembong Warsono

Article: Gembong Warsono (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [7]
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Regional legislator from Jakarta, Indonesia. Juxlos (talk) 14:58, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

seems well sourced, i support. Lukt64 (talk) 01:15, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) 2023 New Zealand general election

Proposed image
Article: 2023 New Zealand general election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The National Party, led by Christopher Luxon, wins the most seats in the New Zealand general election. (Post)
News source(s): ABC CNN Reuters 1News
Credits:

The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: New Prime Minister for New Zealand most likely. Ornithoptera (talk) 10:04, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support article looks excessively long which makes it a bit dense, IMHO. But the most important parts seem to have sufficient prose and the content is sourced.
_-_Alsor (talk) 14:58, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support defeat of a major Zero-COVID pandemic-era and Maori Power government and transition from leftism to rightism, has a good enough article. JM2023 (talk) 15:47, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Question - do we usually make two separate posts for the changing of the legislature and then the changing of the Prime Minister? Because if so, we shouldn't, and instead should wait until the Prime Minister is chosen before posting this. Otherwise, we should post this and update the Blurb once the Prime Minister is chosen. --RockstoneSend me a message! 23:28, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Per the above link to WP:ITN/R:

    The results of general elections in: All states on the list of sovereign states; European Union elections. Disputed states and dependent territories should be discussed at WP:ITN/C and judged on their own merits. Changes in the holder of the office which administer the executive of their respective state/government, in those countries which qualify under the criteria above, as listed at List of current heads of state and government except when that change was already posted as part of a general election.

    Hopefully that answers the question. JM2023 (talk) 23:45, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thanks for posting this, Stephen. The editor who, over the last few weeks, has added the most prose to this article was Andykatib and he was missing from the credits. I've added him. Would you please be so kind and issue a credit? Note that because this seems to be restricted to adding five contributors, I deleted one of the others (so that Andykatib shows). Schwede66 00:55, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) 2023 Australian referendum

Consensus is in favor of posting and the post-posting discussion isn't accomplishing any useful purpose. Any further discussion regarding the blurb should take place at WP:ERRORS. Duly signed, ⛵ WaltClipper -(talk) 21:51, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Proposed image
Article: 2023 Australian Indigenous Voice referendum (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Australians reject constitutional recognition for Indigenous Australians and a proposed advisory body in a referendum. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Voters reject altering the Australian Constitution to establish an Indigenous Voice to Parliament
Alternative blurb II: ​ In a referendum, Australia votes to reject the proposal to recognise Indigenous Australians, through an alteration to the Constitution to create a body called the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice.
Alternative blurb III: ​ The 2023 Australian Indigenous Voice referendum (pictured) is defeated.
Alternative blurb IV: ​ The 2023 Australian Indigenous Voice constitutional referendum is defeated.
News source(s): Washington Post Al Jazeera The Guardian Reuters CNN ABC
Credits:
Nominator's comments: First referendum in Australia for several decades, covered in several world newspapers. Alternative blurb is probably needed to streamline ease of reading and word better. Note that the referendum encompasses both the voice and inclusion of Indigenous Australians in the constitution Ornithoptera (talk) 09:59, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Had the motion succeeded it would be more newsworthy for Wikipedia, but as is there is no change in circumstance 675930s (talk) 11:55, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support - Per above. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 13:18, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Far too early. It's only just gone 9:00 am on a Sunday morning here in Australia. (The vote was just yesterday, on a Saturday.) A lot of Australians, those wanting to comment on this, won't be out of bed yet! I don't recognise any Australians in the contributors above. HiLo48 (talk) 22:19, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
My "accusations" aren't vague, and there are plenty of sources for such claims. Not in the Murdoch or Costello media though. HiLo48 (talk) 00:20, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
They are vague. You say Massive amounts of misinformation, fear, uncertainty, and doubt (texbook MOS:WEASEL), provide absolutely 0 examples at all, and now you just say there are plenty of sources (more MOS:WEASEL) despite not citing a single one this time either. And none of your new comment addresses the WP:FORUM concerns, or how your oppose has nothing to do with the article's quality or notability but instead with off-topic vague allegations against one side's campaign, thereby breaking fundamental ITN guidelines. And what's with the random off-topic potshot at Murdoch [and] Costello media? and you've made a formatting error here, talking to me but replying to your own comment. (fixed) You've been here since 2009, you've had a civility restriction imposed on you from ANI, really you shouldn't be doing this and should know better. JM2023 (talk) 00:23, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I am not the topic. HiLo48 (talk) 00:54, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That's right. The topic is the Indigenous Voice to Parliament, which you commented on in a forum-like way with off-topic allegations which broke ITN guidelines, so I pointed that out alongside pointing out why you should know better than this. I believe it's helpful and within bounds of topicality and civility to point out when other editors stray off-topic and break guidelines in the name of opposition to a blurb. Such callouts are regular and help ITN function properly. We should go back to discussing the topical blurb within guidelines, without weasel words or unsourced off-topic claims. JM2023 (talk) 00:59, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I am STILL not the topic. HiLo48 (talk) 01:12, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I've already explained why I said what I said and why it doesn't matter whether you are or are not the topic. Please stop disrupting the project, especially considering your apparent history. Just discuss the proposed blurb without violating anything or going off-topic. Right now it looks like you're telling me to ignore your various aforementioned violations (including going off-topic) and stop telling you to stick to ITN rules when discussing this blurb.JM2023 (talk) 01:43, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I am not telling you to do nor not do anything. HiLo48 (talk) 02:30, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
You are telling me you are not the topic, the implication being you don't want me to talk about you, despite the fact that all i'm doing is pointing out the fact you were off-topic out the gate alongside some other violations which I point out in order to get you on topic. This looks like a case of WP:LASTWORD. JM2023 (talk) 02:33, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I would presume notability for constitutional referendums whether succesful or not. The very fact of its rejection has generation significant attention. The blurb is, as of writing, very matter of fact and additional commentary for how it exactly played out is better dealt within the article. Gotitbro (talk) 08:59, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This is simply not in the same ball park as Brexit. The world had heard about Brexit for years before the poll. That's not the case here. HiLo48 (talk) 00:21, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Once again a formatting error. Talking to me but replying to someone else. (fixed) The world has heard about the IVtP for at least months, or else you wouldn't be able to allege Massive amounts of misinformation, fear, uncertainty, and doubt (without examples or sources) being promoted in media outlets. And this also doesn't address the fact that we posted the Scottish independence referendum. JM2023 (talk) 00:25, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Please tell us about these likely political consequences. I haven't heard of any. HiLo48 (talk) 00:23, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
There's quite a few. For a start, another referendum in the near future is unlikely, so republic for many years to come. That will have international implications. It may be pretty minor compared with Brexit but will the add to the worldwide perception that democracy is dysfunctional, especially in Asia. The electorates that returned teal candidates in the last election were solidly behind the yes vote, so their chances of reelection are enhanced, which in turn may continue the drift of the conservative side of politics away from the middle class and towards blue collar populism along the lines of what has occurred in the United States. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 05:39, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support per JM2023. Just because something failed doesn't invalidate it from being posted. I believe if a Yes would be historic and the counts were close enough the referendum should be posted. Aaron Liu (talk) 14:35, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

October 13

October 13, 2023 (2023-10-13) (Friday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology

RD: Linda Arkley

Article: Linda Arkley (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/linda-arkley-north-tyneside-council-27907771
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Mayor of North Tyneside, 2003-2005 and 2009-2013. 65.94.213.53 (talk) 09:11, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Jaakko Ihamuotila

Article: Jaakko Ihamuotila (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://www.iltalehti.fi/kotimaa/a/87a2c83d-2bd2-40de-ae75-53f04a84a752
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Finnish business executive. 65.94.213.53 (talk) 09:11, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Ronald M. Mottl

Article: Ronald M. Mottl (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://obits.cleveland.com/us/obituaries/cleveland/name/ronald-mottl-obituary?id=53345056
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Ohio politician who served four terms in the United States House of Representatives from 1975 to 1983. 65.94.213.53 (talk) 09:11, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Roméo Savoie

Article: Roméo Savoie (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/1849597/romeo-savoie-mort-peintre-architecte-acadie
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Canadian abstract painter. 65.94.213.53 (talk) 09:11, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Princess India of Afghanistan

Article: Princess India of Afghanistan (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://menafn.com/1107240982/Princes-India-Daughter-Of-King-Amanullah-Khan-Passes-Away-In-Rome
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Afghan royalty. 65.94.213.53 (talk) 09:11, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Issam Abdallah

Article: Issam Abdallah (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://www.reuters.com/world/obituary-reuters-issam-abdallah-covered-worlds-biggest-events-with-bravery-2023-10-14/
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Reuters visuals journalist killed while filming Israeli missile attacks at the Israeli-Lebanon border. 65.94.213.53 (talk) 09:11, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted to RD) RD: Louise Glück

Posted RD, no consensus for a blurb. Time to close. --Tone 20:45, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Proposed image
Article: Louise Glück (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [8]
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Winner of the 2020 Nobel Prize in Literature. Article appears to be well sourced. BangJan1999 20:52, 13 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. As she had multiple awards, including Nobel Prize, should we propose blurb? Kirill C1 (talk) 21:49, 13 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It’s clear that Nobel laureates enjoy a notability that few people have, a fact that we all share. But Glück having a blurb would open the pandora's box for other laureates to have a blurb as well, making Main Page impractical and useless. It’s a proposal that I fear its results. _-_Alsor (talk) 00:41, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
agree totally JM2023 (talk) 15:33, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support RD, but Oppose a blurb. Well cited, no tags, comprehensive coverage of her life. The article would probably do better with more sections, though I'm nitpicking at this point. Concur with above that blurbing would open a Pandora's box. Bremps... 04:32, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) Psyche launch

Proposed image
Psyche is the first mission to use a Hall-effect thruster (pictured) beyond the moon's orbit
Article: Psyche (spacecraft) (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ NASA's Psyche spacecraft is launched to explore the metal-rich asteroid 16 Psyche (Post)
News source(s): [9] [10]
Credits:

Article updated

 Jolielegal (talk) 06:02, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support It's an interesting mission to establish whether the asteroid is like the Earth's core but will take many years to produce results. And the use of a Hall-effect electric drive is significant too. As it's in the news now, we should run it now. Andrew🐉(talk) 08:09, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Important and interesting mission, but I prefer this image File:PIA21499 - Artist's Concept of Psyche Spacecraft with Five-Panel Array.jpg. We can also add that it'll arrive in 2029. Artem.G (talk) 11:57, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Look, I know we love our space missions here, but can we just...not post every single new mission. If/when this mission returns important information we should post THAT news. But this feels like another one where we're posting every darn aspect about the mission with no real certainty of its impact. DarkSide830 (talk) 15:12, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose there are guidelines for space related stuff, I don't recall where, but I'm almost certain this launch does not meet the criteria. Kcmastrpc (talk) 15:15, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    • Do you mean the ITN/R criteria? While not *strictly* covering this event (note that it *would* cover its arrival!) it's important to note conflate ITN proposals and ITN/R. Most items that get posted to ITN are *not* covered by ITN/R; the latter merely makes its notability assumed, while for non-ITN/R proposals, the notability has to be examined on a case-by-case basis. Simply applying the standards for ITN/R is kind of redundant, because were it covered under that... It'd be ITN/R already. (of course, this doesn't stop the opposite, from editors trying to debate the *lack of notability* for an item already under ITN/R...)
    Since this is not a proposal to list this as ITN/R, those guidelines are thus pretty irrelevant. - Nottheking (talk) 17:33, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Because the blurb is about the launch, it might make sense to mention the launch rocket as well. Daniel Quinlan (talk) 17:46, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Launches to any Earth-escape trajectory are particularly rare, and always gather substantial news coverage. This is the third (and final) such launch this entire year, after ESA's JUICE in April, and ISRO's Aditya-L1 last month. JUICE was pretty swiftly posted, though Aditya-L1 was never proposed. (probably an effect of Anglocentric/systemic bias on the English Wikipedia)
I concur with DarkSide830 as well; there has to be a better image than that of a thruster that is merely similar to what's on it; either a picture of the whole spacecraft or of the launch itself tends to be in line with what gets posted for space missions. Mention of the carrier rocket isn't normally covered however, since the rocket in question isn't part of the story's significance. - Nottheking (talk) 18:08, 15 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

October 12

October 12, 2023 (2023-10-12) (Thursday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

(Posted) RD: Luis Garavito

Article: Luis Garavito (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [11]
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: No problems revealed after quick skim except for two cn tags Bremps... 23:36, 12 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Colombian serial killer Bremps... 23:36, 12 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Fixed the final citation needed tag, but it still needs a page number (Google Books apparently doesn't display page numbers). Bremps... 04:43, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

October 11

October 11, 2023 (2023-10-11) (Wednesday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

RD: Rainer Gut

Article: Rainer Gut (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://www.nzz.ch/wirtschaft/nachruf-rainer-e-gut-der-manager-der-die-credit-suisse-gross-machte-ld.1731609
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Swiss bank manager, chairman of Credit Suisse (1983–2000). 65.94.213.53 (talk) 09:19, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: D. J. Gokulakrishnan

Article: D. J. Gokulakrishnan (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Times of India
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Cricketer and coach. Ktin (talk) 18:17, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Rudolph Isley

Article: Rudolph Isley (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The New York Times
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 22:53, 12 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) North East Express

Consensus will not develop to post. Stephen 22:00, 12 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: North East Express (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A train derailment of a major train in India. More than 12 coaches derailed, 6 dead and more than 100 injured. (Post)
News source(s): The Quint, , Live Mint, Reuters, The Indian Express
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: Train derailment in India Leoneix (talk) 04:14, 12 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose: No article specific to the event Prodrummer619 (talk) 05:11, 12 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose not notable enough, doesn't have its own article. Unknown-Tree (talk) 17:54, 12 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose not notable, doesn't even have an article, blurb doesn't even follow ITN format, it's even missing a bolded link. Also not even proposed in the right day section. JM2023 (talk) 20:38, 12 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per JM2023. Also great blurb lol
Elisecars727 (talk) 20:52, 12 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Cal Wilson

Article: Cal Wilson (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Age
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: New Zealand comedian who worked in Australia in her later years HiLo48 (talk) 02:08, 11 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There's a IMDb source in the article, which is unreliable, and the lead needs work. Working on it. Tails Wx 20:58, 13 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

References

Nominators often include links to external websites and other references in discussions on this page. It is usually best to provide such links using the inline URL syntax [http://example.com] rather than using <ref></ref> tags, because that keeps all the relevant information in the same place as the nomination without having to jump to this section, and facilitates the archiving process.

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