Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates

This page provides a place to discuss new items for inclusion on In the news (ITN), a protected template on the Main Page (see past items in the ITN archives). Do not report errors in ITN items that are already on the Main Page here— discuss those at the relevant section of WP:ERRORS.

This candidates page is integrated with the daily pages of Portal:Current events. A light green header appears under each daily section - it includes transcluded Portal:Current events items for that day. You can discuss ITN candidates under the header.

Masoud Pezeshkian The New Popular Front wins the most seats in the National Assembly in the French legislative election but does not achieve a majority. In Iran, the reformist candidate Masoud Pezeshkian (pictured) is elected president in the second round of the presidential election. The Labour Party wins the United Kingdom general election and Keir Starmer becomes prime minister. Hurricane Beryl, the earliest-recorded Category 5 Atlantic hurricane in a calendar year, leaves at least 35 people dead in the Caribbean, Venezuela, and the United States. Ongoing: Israel–Hamas war timeline Russian invasion of Ukraine timeline Sudanese civil war timeline Recent deaths: Diana Hill Maxine Singer Khyree Jackson Liana Isakadze Jane McAlevey Rick Cluff view — page history — related changes — edit

Glossary Blurbs are one-sentence summaries of the news story. Altblurbs, labelled alt1, alt2, etc., are alternative suggestions to cover the same story. A target article, bolded in text, is the focus of the story. Each blurb must have at least one such article, but you may also link non-target articles. Articles in the Ongoing line describe events getting continuous coverage. The Recent deaths (RD) line includes any living thing whose death was recently announced. Consensus may decide to create a blurb for a recent death. All articles linked in the ITN template must pass our standards of review. They should be up-to-date, demonstrate relevance via good sourcing and have at least an acceptable quality. Nomination steps Make sure the item you want to nominate has an article that meets our minimum requirements and contains reliable coverage of a current event you want to create a blurb about. We will not post about events described in an article that fails our quality standards. Find the correct section below for the date of the event (not the date nominated). Do not add sections for new dates manually - a bot does that for us each day at midnight (UTC). Create a level 4 header with the article name (==== Your article here ====). Add (RD) or (Ongoing) if appropriate. Then paste the {{ITN candidate}} template with its parameters and fill them in. The news source should be reliable, support your nomination and be in the article. Write your blurb in simple present tense. Below the template, briefly explain why we should post that event. After that, save your edit. Your nomination is ready! You may add {{ITN note}} to the target article's talk page to let editors know about your nomination. The better your article's quality, the better it covers the event and the wider its perceived significance (see WP:ITNSIGNIF for details), the better your chances of getting the blurb posted. Headers When the article is ready, updated and there is consensus to post, you can mark the item as (Ready). Remove that wording if you feel the article fails any of these necessary criteria. Admins should always separately verify whether these criteria are met before posting blurbs marked (Ready). For more guidance, check WP:ITN/A. If satisfied, change the header to (Posted). Where there is no consensus, or the article's quality remains poor, change the header to (Closed) or (Not posted). Sometimes, editors ask to retract an already-posted nomination because of a fundamental error or because consensus changed. If you feel the community supports this, remove the item and mark the item as (Pulled). Voicing an opinion on an item Format your comment to contain "support" or "oppose", and include a rationale for your choice. In particular, address the notability of the event, the quality of the article, and whether it has been updated. Please do... Pick an older item to review near the bottom of this page, before the eligibility runs out and the item scrolls off the page and gets abandoned in the archive, unused and forgotten. Review an item even if it has already been reviewed by another user. You may be the first to spot a problem, or the first to confirm that an identified problem was fixed. Piling on the list of "support!" votes will help administrators see what is ready to be posted on the Main Page. Tell about problems in articles if you see them. Be bold and fix them yourself if you know how, or tell others if it's not possible. Please do not... Add simple "support!" or "oppose!" votes without including your reasons. Similarly, curt replies such as "who?", "meh", or "duh!" are not helpful. A vote without reasoning means little for us, please elaborate yourself. Oppose an item just because the event is only relating to a single country, or failing to relate to one. We post a lot of such content, so these comments are generally unproductive. Accuse other editors of supporting, opposing or nominating due to a personal bias (such as ethnocentrism). We at ITN do not handle conflicts of interest. Comment on a story without first reading the relevant article(s). Oppose a recurring item here because you disagree with the recurring items criteria. Discuss them here. Use ITN as a forum for your own political or personal beliefs. Such comments are irrelevant to the outcome and are potentially disruptive. Suggesting updates There are two places where you can request corrections to posted items: Anything that does not change the intent of the blurb (spelling, grammar, markup issues, updating death tolls etc.) should be discussed at WP:Errors. Discuss major changes in the blurb's intent or very complex updates as part of the current ITNC nomination.

October 23

Portal:Current events/2023 October 23

October 23, 2023 (2023-10-23) (Monday) Armed conflicts and attacks Gaza–Israel conflict Israel–Hamas war Israel–Hezbollah conflict (2023–present) More than 20,000 people are internally displaced in Lebanon amid cross-border strikes by Israeli forces, according to the United Nations migration agency. (Reuters) Israeli air raids target several locations in Lebanon including Ramesh, Markaba, Houla, Shebaa, and Kafr Shuba. (Al Jazeera) Israeli blockade of the Gaza Strip The Indonesian Hospital, the largest in northern Gaza, loses power after running out of fuel. (CNN) Israel–Hamas war hostage crisis Hamas releases two Israeli hostages following mediation by Qatar and Egypt. The pair were taken to the Rafah border crossing between Gaza and Egypt. (AFP via The Philippine Star) The Gaza Health Ministry says that Israeli airstrikes kill at least 436 Palestinians, including women and children, in northern Gaza’s Al-Shati refugee camp as well as Khan Younis. (Al Jazeera) Omar Daraghmeh, a senior Hamas official, dies while in an Israeli prison, with Hamas spokespeople claim it to have been an assassination. He was arrested in the West Bank by the Israel Defense Forces, along with his son. (Reuters) (BNN) Israeli forces launch night raids in the West Bank, with heavily armed troops backed by armored vehicles seen in at least two areas. (Al Jazeera) Qatar's Emir Tamim bin Hamad Al Thani has warned the escalation of fighting in Gaza poses a threat to the region and the world. He asserted Israel should not be given a "green light for unconditional killing". (Al Jazeera) Mexican drug war At least 24 people, including twelve police officers, are killed in three separate mass shootings and ambushes by unidentified assailants in Coyuca de Benítez, Guerrero, and Tacámbaro, Michoacán, Mexico. (AFP via France 24) Disasters and accidents 2023–24 European windstorm season Storm Babet The death toll from the extratropical cyclone in the United Kingdom rises to seven as another body is found in floodwaters in Chesterfield, Derbyshire, England. (The Independent) A cargo train collides with a passenger train in Bhairab, Bangladesh, killing at least 17 people and injuring many others. (Reuters) Seven people are killed and 25 others are injured in a multiple-vehicle collision on Interstate 55 near New Orleans, Louisiana, United States. Police say the 158-car pile-up was caused by a dense fog. (BBC News) International relations Enlargement of NATO Sweden–NATO relations Turkish president Recep Tayyip Erdoğan submits a bill on granting Sweden membership into NATO to the Grand National Assembly. (Al Jazeera) Law and crime Aftermath of the 2023 Pakistani protests The Supreme Court of Pakistan declares the court-martials of civilians unconstitutional, moving the trials of over 100 pro-Imran Khan protesters to civilian criminal courts. (Reuters) A Russian district court extends RFE journalist Alsu Kurmasheva's detention as a preventive measure after Kurmasheva allegedly failed to register as a foreign agent. (AFP via RFI) Authorities in Touboro, North Region, Cameroon confirm that over 30 people, likely including students from Chad, were abducted by suspected bandits yesterday. (Reuters via Japan Today) Five people are killed in a mass shooting in Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario, Canada. (CBC News) Science and technology 2023 in arthropod paleontology A new species of prehistoric millipede named Lauravolsella willemeni is discovered in the Netherlands. (NOS) Sports 2023 MLB postseason 2023 American League Championship Series The Texas Rangers defeat the Houston Astros, 11–4 in game 7, to win the American League pennant. (The Washington Post)

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RD: Bishan Singh Bedi

Article: Bishan Singh Bedi (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Hindu
Credits:

• Nominated by Fahads1982 (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Fahads1982 (talk) 11:38, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

• Article needs some ref improvement currently. - Indefensible (talk) 18:08, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

Ongoing: Unitary Platform presidential primaries

Article: 2023 Unitary Platform presidential primaries (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: No blurb specified (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian, Financial Times, El País
Credits:

• Nominated by NoonIcarus (talk · give credit)

Nominator's comments: Primary elections of the Venezuelan opposition. First presidential primaries in eleven years, important international coverage. --NoonIcarus (talk) 19:03, 23 October 2023 (UTC) NoonIcarus (talk) 19:03, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose. We don't have a habit of covering similar primaries, and I don't believe it to be globally shaking enough to make an exception just yet - especially with how lopsided the results seem to be. River10000 (talk) 19:10, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

Probably belongs in ITN. It is just not important enough for Ongoing. Lukt64 (talk) 19:11, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

Not even there. We don't post primary elections. -- Rockstone^{Send me a message!} 20:05, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

I'm well aware it would be uncommon, but it's one of the reasons why I highlighted the relevancy of these ones and how important they are for Venezuela. I understand if there's still opposition, though. --NoonIcarus (talk) 20:29, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose. Venezuela's elections are rigged and Machado is barred from holding public office anyway. DarkSide830 (talk) 19:23, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose There's not even a blurb, how is one suppose to post this on ITN? Editor 5426387 (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 20:30, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose The nomination is for an "Ongoing" entry, not a blurb, but I'm not sure whether it is even ongoing. It seems like the voting has already ended and all that remains is to count the votes and declare a winner. However, I don't think we usually blurb presidential primary results. For example, even the ITN nomination for Trump's victory in the 2016 Republican primary was rejected. Unless there's something really noteworthy about this specific primary election I don't think it should be posted. 98.170.164.88 (talk) 20:41, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

October 22

Portal:Current events/2023 October 22

October 22, 2023 (2023-10-22) (Sunday) Armed conflicts and attacks Gaza–Israel conflict Israel–Hamas war Israeli blockade of the Gaza Strip The United Nations says the lives of at least 120 newborn babies in incubators in Gaza hospitals are at risk, as fuel runs out in the enclave. (Al Jazeera) Journalists killed in the Israel–Hamas war Palestinian journalist Rushdi Sarraj is killed in an Israeli attack on his home. (The Peninsula) Israel–Hezbollah conflict (2023–present) Five Hezbollah members are killed during a shootout with Israeli soldiers at the border with Lebanon, bringing the number of Hezbollah members killed during the conflict to 24. (AP) At least 55 Palestinians are killed in overnight Israeli raids on the Gaza Strip, according to the Hamas-controlled Gaza Ministry of Health. (Al Jazeera) The number of mosques destroyed by Israeli airstrikes in the Gaza Strip increases to 31. (AA) An Israeli tank accidentally hits an Egyptian position near the border with Gaza. Several Egyptian border guards sustain injuries from shell fragments. (Reuters) At least 300 Palestinians are placed under administrative detention or have had detention orders renewed, allowing Israel to hold them without charge indefinitely under secret evidence. (Al Jazeera) Paddy Cosgrave, a co-founder of the European tech conference Web Summit, resigns after opposition to his public statements on Israel, which included, "War crimes are war crimes even when committed by allies, and should be called out for what they are." (The Telegraph) Syrian civil war Israel launches airstrikes against Damascus International Airport, killing two workers. (Reuters) Disasters and accidents At least 28 people are killed after a boat capsizes on the Congo River in Équateur Province, Democratic Republic of the Congo. (Africa News) International relations Israel–Hamas war protests Several thousand people gather in Sarajevo, Bosnia and Herzegovina, waving Palestinian and Bosnian flags and demanding an end to Israel's bombardment of Gaza. (Reuters) Territorial disputes in the South China Sea The Philippines reports separate collision incidents between its military ships and vessels of both the China Coast Guard and the Maritime Militia near the Second Thomas Shoal in the Spratly Islands. (AFP via NDTV) Law and crime Alaska Airlines Flight 2059 An off-duty pilot reportedly attempts to hijack and crash an Alaska Airlines passenger plane travelling from Everett, Washington, to San Francisco, California, United States. (BBC News) Israel–Hamas war protests During a pro-Palestine protest in Minneapolis, Minnesota, U.S., a white car drives through a group of protesters. No one is injured. (Newsweek) Politics and elections Elections in Venezuela 2023 Unitary Platform presidential primaries Venezuelan opposition parties hold their first presidential primary since 2012. (AP) 2023 Argentine general election Argentines elect the president and the members of the legislature. Sergio Massa and Javier Milei receives ~36% and ~30% of the votes respectively and will face off in a second round. (Reuters) (CNN) 2023 Swiss federal election Voters in Switzerland elect the members of the Federal Assembly. Results show that the right-wing Swiss People's Party becomes the largest parliamentary faction after the election, gaining nine seats compared to the previous election. (AP) 2024 Indonesian presidential election Defense minister and Gerindra presidential candidate Prabowo Subianto chooses Surakarta mayor Gibran Rakabuming Raka, the eldest child of incumbent president Joko Widodo, as his running mate. (AFP via The Guardian)

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RD: Charles E. Young

Article: Charles E. Young (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-10-22/charles-young-obit
Credits:

• Nominated by Natg 19 (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Long-time chancellor at UCLA. Natg 19 (talk) 21:07, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

• Support Article looks good. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 21:10, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

RD: Vincent Asaro

Article: Vincent Asaro (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): New York Daily News
Credits:

• Nominated by Tails Wx (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Jkaharper (talk · give credit) and Strattonsmith (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American mobster. Article looks in decent shape. Tails Wx 02:28, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

(Closed) RD: Samantha Woll

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Article: Samantha Woll (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): New York Times
Credits:

• Nominated by SchroCat (talk · give credit)
• Created by Dsp13 (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: President of the Isaac Agree Downtown Synagogue in Detroit, who was murdered on 21 October. - SchroCat (talk) 12:34, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

I have initial concerns with this and BLP1E - while her life is being documented in wake of her tragic death, lack of sourcing before her death is a problem. Masem (t) 12:41, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

Yes, I am also unconvinced that she was notable before her death; I suspect that if an article had been constructed prior to that, it would probably have been redirected to the synagogue article should it have gone to AfD. Black Kite (talk) 13:12, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

RD: Betsy Rawls

Article: Betsy Rawls (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): ESPN & ABC
Credits:

• Nominated by SchroCat (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Jkaharper (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: A four-time winner of the US Women's Open SchroCat (talk) 12:40, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

October 21

Portal:Current events/2023 October 21

October 21, 2023 (2023-10-21) (Saturday) Armed conflicts and attacks Israeli–Palestinian conflict Israel–Hamas war The Rafah Border Crossing on the Egypt–Gaza border opens for the first time since the war began, allowing humanitarian aid trucks to enter Gaza. (AFP via NDTV) Myanmar civil war The Tatmadaw conducts airstrikes and deploys additional troops in response to the Kachin Independence Army's attacks near the China–Myanmar border in Mu Se District and Laiza, Kachin State. (AFP via TOI) Russian invasion of Ukraine Russian strikes against Ukrainian infrastructure A Russian missile strike on a postal office in Kharkiv kills 6 workers and injures 16 others. (BBC) Somali Civil War Six people are killed and nine others injured during an Al-Shabaab suicide car bombing outside a military facility in Lower Shabelle, Somalia. (AP) Disasters and accidents 2023 Pacific hurricane season Hurricane Norma makes landfall near Cabo San Lucas, Baja California Sur, Mexico. Warnings have been issued for the states of Baja California Sur and Sinaloa. (AP) Law and crime Police in Cyprus arrest four Syrians for detonating a small explosive device near the Israeli embassy in Nicosia. (AP via ABC News) Politics and elections Former Pakistani Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif returns to Pakistan after four years in self-imposed exile in London, United Kingdom. (AP)

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RD: Bobi

Article: Bobi (dog) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC News
Credits:

• Nominated by Joseywales1961 (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Confirmed as longest recorded living dog, article is short but not a stub and reasonably well sourced Josey Wales ^Parley 12:37, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

• Weak support - yes, article is short but I think its just long enough and has just enough citations. Not much more can be expected for this article ✈ mike_gigs ^talk_contribs 14:46, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

RD/Blurb: Bobby Charlton

Article: Bobby Charlton (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb:  English footballer Bobby Charlton dies at the age of 86. (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian, NYT, Al Jazeera, DW, France 24, CNN, BBC, CBS
Credits:

• Nominated by Pawnkingthree (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: A lot of work needed on sourcing. Pawnkingthree (talk) 15:30, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

• Blurb As the article says, "Widely considered one of the greatest players of all time" and so seems comparable with Jim Brown who was blurbed earlier this year. Andrew🐉(talk) 16:32, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

  Bad comparison. Brown was more than an athlete. See Jim Brown#Acting career and Jim Brown#Civil rights work. – Muboshgu (talk) 16:36, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

  Bobby Charlton was way bigger than Jim Brown.

  Just look at number of wiki pages.

  Brown, 38, and Charlton has 67 as of now. Kirill C1 (talk) 17:45, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

  "Number of wiki pages"? – Muboshgu (talk) 18:14, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

  Maybe he was referring to articles in other Wikipedia languages. I've always thought the 2023 FIBA Basketball World Cup was a bigger event than the 2023 Cricket World Cup; it's written in more Wikipedia languages (36 for basketball vs 30 for cricket). I guess Brown was bigger than these two events? Howard the Duck (talk) 18:23, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

  Maybe he was. If so, it's irrelevant what other languages he has a page on as we're here on the English Wikipedia. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:27, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

  There are always arguments about worldwide fame. Number of articles in different languages indicates how much a person is known in the world. Kirill C1 (talk) 18:41, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

  Yes, that is what I referred to. Kirill C1 (talk) 18:42, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

  That's a good point. You can use langviews to show the readership across all languages and this is a good way of assessing global impact and interest. Comparing the all-time, all-language views, we have

  Bobby Charlton = 10,777,838

  Jim Brown = 10,224,328

  As I said, they are quite comparable. Andrew🐉(talk) 07:56, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

  Nice. I tried comparing the 4 world cups this year:

  • 2023 FIBA Basketball World Cup (5.6 million)
  • 2023 Rugby World Cup (6.8 million)
  • 2023 FIFA Women's World Cup (12.4 million)
  • 2023 Cricket World Cup (13.3 million, of which 12.9 million is from en.wiki)

  Howard the Duck (talk) 08:28, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

  I think most views for Jim Brown come from English wiki. Kirill C1 (talk) 18:05, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose blurb Unnecessary, RD is fine. Not ready for posting yet. – Muboshgu (talk) 16:37, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose blurb As in pop music and acting, the field of leading personalities in association football is so vast that only the very best should be blurbed. Johan Cruyff was not blurbed in March 2016, which I find outrageous as he was one of few people to change the way football is both played and managed. Charlton is well known and recognised within football - ten stories right now on the front page of Marca and the lead on L'Equipe while games are being played in France - but was not a global icon like Pelé or Maradona. Unknown Temptation (talk) 17:52, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

  Two wrongs do not do right.

  He was a global icon. Kirill C1 (talk) 17:53, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

  Maybe global icon was not the right term to use, but there's a bracket where there's Pelé, Maradona, Messi and Ronaldo and very few others. Not fact, just my opinion. Unknown Temptation (talk) 17:59, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

  I see nothing on that page to suggest he was a "global icon". One of the best players of all time? Sure. But there's too many of those to blurb. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:16, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

Support blurb. One of the greatest players of all time. The only winning captain of England, winner of European Cup, record holder for Manchester United. Obvious blurb. Kirill C1 (talk) 17:48, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

Not to take away from someone who achieved a lot more than I ever will, but Charlton didn't captain England in 1966, that was Bobby Moore. Charlton also lived to see his records broken for England appearances (by Moore in his own career) and goals (by Wayne Rooney and then Harry Kane), and Manchester United appearances (Giggs) and goals (Rooney). Unknown Temptation (talk) 17:54, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

See Guardian obit for impact. https://www.theguardian.com/football/2023/oct/21/sir-bobby-charlton-obituary Kirill C1 (talk) 17:55, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

One Guardian obit does not establish blurb-worthiness. It would need a lot more coverage. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:15, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose Blurb. Very clearly one of the best soccer players ever. The key word is "one" of. Have we blurbed a soccer player that is father down the "best" list yet? DarkSide830 (talk) 17:56, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

  Not from soccer, but we blurbed Shane Warne with 30 wiki pages. Charlton has almost seventy. Kirill C1 (talk) 18:39, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

  By that logic, if Corbin Bleu were to pass away, he would be a clear choice for a blurb, given that he has articles in 213 different language Wikipedias. See Wikidata. BangJan1999 18:49, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

  That is actually fascinating. How in the hell does this guy have an article on nearly every Wikipedia? AryKun (talk) 19:49, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

  At the risk of derailing the conversation, that's truly amazing. I've never heard of him before, but Bleu has more Wikipedia articles than Mohammed, the Buddha, Napoleon, and Elizabeth II.

  Does anyone know the story with this? Did one of his fans decide to create an entry for him in 200 languages, or was it an SEO campaign, or something like that? I refuse to believe this occurred "naturally". I checked some of the revision histories in little-known languages (e.g. Greenlandic, Norfuk) and they were created by Saudi Arabian IP users, mostly circa 2010. Bizarre. Edit: I found a news article about this on Insider.com and they came to the same conclusion about a dedicated fan from Saudi Arabia.

  Anyway, this example definitely makes the case that number of sitelinks is not an infallible metric for notability. 98.170.164.88 (talk) 21:49, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

  It never is, either on or off enwiki. Pop culture and sports etc. fans, editathons and numerous other factors influence these. The only focus should be on the main article of a topic and the relative importance of that in its field or otherwise. Gotitbro (talk) 03:12, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

  And Warne was a mistake. DarkSide830 (talk) 00:25, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose blurb for reasons given above, no indication that he had a significant influence on the sport as someone like Pele. Oppose RD for numerous unsourced statements on this article. --Masem (t) 18:34, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose blurb per above. AryKun (talk) 20:14, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
• RD at least. Yes, one of the best players ever (and I grew up in England with him at his finest in the 1960s - he was a big part of English life at the time). Unsure whether he warrants a blurb.--A bit iffy (talk) 20:40, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose blurb since I wouldn't vote for a blurb for any sportsballist, let alone one who I've never heard of This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 20:45, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose. Very short on citations. Moscow Mule (talk) 21:22, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose blurb. I don't think he was so impactful that he reaches blurb level.  — Amakuru (talk) 21:55, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose blurb per above rationale. Here we go again. The Kip 23:29, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
• Global survey It's the day after the death and, following the discussion of languages above, I just looked at the main pages of the 15 biggest Wikipedias to see how they compare. Bobby Charlton's death is currently on the main pages of the following language editions: Chinese, Dutch, French, German, Polish, Portuguese and Spanish. Looking at the exceptions, it seems that the following languages don't do any recent deaths: Italian, Japanese, Russian, Ukrainian and Vietnamese while the Arabic edition only seems to list people from the Arab world. So the only two major languages which are dragging their feet on this news are English and Swedish. "A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country..." Andrew🐉(talk) 09:41, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

  There are quality issues (lack of sources) that still present that prevent this from even going to RD. Masem (t) 11:47, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

  Thank you for that misrepresentation of statistics. I checked every single version you mentioned, and he is there in RD. We are not dragging our feet for RD, we're discussing whether or not he should have a blurb. None of those Wikipedias have him as a blurb, so what they have done is irrelevant here. AryKun (talk) 11:50, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

• We're discussing all aspects but I didn't get into the RD/blurb issue for those other languages because those details vary. For example, the German posting is "Bobby Charlton (86), englischer Fußballspieler († 21. Oktober)" while the French have "Bobby Charlton (photo)". These provide more details than an English RD and so are better. But my point was not the level of detail but the fact that most of those other languages have posted the news in a timely fashion. Presumably they are not hampered by the toxic process that we have here, which makes a battleground out of a simple announcement. Andrew🐉(talk) 16:39, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
  • The German Wikipedia does that for every RD they post, as you would have seen by the fact that the other 4 RD's right next to it also have the same type of shortdesc. The French Wikipedia also adds "photo" to every RD that is currently a photo. That is not details varying, that's just different RD formats, which is irrelevant to the discussion here. AryKun (talk) 18:10, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

• No one is making it toxic or a battleground here. It flat out fails quality purposes on en.wiki, which is a necessary requirement before even RD posting. Obviously, the other wikis have different quality rationales, which don't apply here. The de.wiki version of the articles has nearly zero sourcing, for example, which would never fly for even a normal BLP article here. Masem (t) 17:11, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

  I think comparing other language wikis to the English wiki is an effective strategy for making these discussions more toxic. They do what they do and aren't relevant to what we do. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:38, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

  Is someone going to send Andrew to ANI or not? I thought we were going to try and make an improvement on ITN/C as far as toxic behavior goes, and he has been repeatedly bringing up irrelevant statistics and arguments to nominations which do nothing to advance the discussion, nor help out whatsoever in getting the item posted. _{Duly signed,} ⛵ WaltClipper -(talk) 02:30, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

  No one can stop you. JM2023 (talk) 03:06, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

  @Admins willing to post ITN: Do any of you agree that Andrew Davidson's conduct on ITN is worth taking to ANI? BangJan1999 14:42, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose Blurb on notability. JM2023 (talk) 17:47, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
• Support RD Appreciate we won't be adding a blurb but it's now overdue an RD. Conay (talk) 21:24, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
• Support blurb - per my previously expressed view that people who are the subject of full length in depth obituaries in multiple sources in multiple countries merit a blurb. NYT, WaPo, The Times (London), Le Monde. Sources around the world view Bobby Charlton's passing as a news story worthy of significant space, so should we. And for the record, I had never heard of him prior to my NYT news alert, but, as ever, my own experiences are not the basis for inclusion or exclusion here. nableezy - 21:33, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
• Support blurb considered one of the greatest of all time, with 200+ goals and a World Cup, he deserves his own blurb, RIP Kanyewestlover999 (talk) 21:42, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose blurb Depending on who you ask, Sir Bobby Charlton is somewhere between the 20th and 30th best football player of all time. While talented and mourned, he doesn't reach the level needed for a blurb, as that tends to be reserved for the GOAT in a field, or at least the greatest of their generation. Blurbing Bobby Charlton would be on par with blurbing Gale Sayers in the NFL, Tom Seaver in baseball, Bobby Clarke in ice hockey, or Allan Border in cricket. While I'd agree that bigger sports have a stronger claim to cultural relevance and therefore notability, I still think that Bobby Charlton falls short of the blurb mark. NorthernFalcon (talk) 02:14, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
• Very weak support blurb should the massive sourcing problems be overcome. Charlton was certainly a massive figure in football, but I am still unconvinced that he rises to the level of a blurb; there are a number of still-living players who have achieved greatness but probably fall into this category. Indeed, there are very few players who would clearly qualify for a blurb (Messi, C. Ronaldo, Zidane, Beckenbauer, possibly Maldini and Buffon?) and hopefully we won't need to worry about any of thosev any time soon. Oh, and George Weah, but that's not just related to football. Black Kite (talk) 07:02, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose Blurb - we can't blurb the death of every famous sportsperson. In this case, it is just "old man dies". -- Rockstone^{Send me a message!} 20:09, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

(Closed) Cyclone Storm Tej

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Article: Cyclone Storm Tej (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Cyclone Storm Tej to make landfall between Yemen and Oman on October 25 (Post)
News source(s): [1], [2], [3], [4], [5]
Credits:

• Created and nominated by Abo Yemen (talk · give credit)

 Abo Yemen✉ 13:33, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

• Wait until landfall actually occurs and we can determine the extent of damage. --Masem (t) 14:39, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose. No content in the target section and seemingly no related draft at the moment. DarkSide830 (talk) 16:16, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

  fixed link. Check it now Abo Yemen✉ 16:54, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose. The page has been changed to a redirect on several occasions, by several people, as recently as today, due to the storm not being set to make landfall for at least a few days. All have been reverted by you. - RockinJack18 17:17, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

  can anyone close this nom Abo Yemen✉ 17:24, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) TV-D1 mission

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Article: TV-D1 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ India becomes the fourth country to master launch abortion technology through the TV-D1 mission as part of the manned Gaganyaan program. (Post)
News source(s): Indian Express Jagran
Credits:

• Nominated by MSN12102001 (talk · give credit)
• Created by Erick Soares3 (talk · give credit)

Article updated

 MSN12102001 (talk) 12:48, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

Weak oppose - We usually only post launches rather than abort tests like this, but this is still a really cool event. I'm very impressed with how ISRO is advancing atm. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 13:46, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose An unmanned test launch is typically not the type of space exploration news we post. --Masem (t) 14:38, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
• Weak oppose per Precarious and Masem. Certainly an objective for the Indian crewed program, but not exactly fit for ITN. Iamstillqw3rty (talk) 19:26, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose on the grounds that it is the fourth country, not the first, not even the second, and not even the third. There is no way that this is notable. JM2023 (talk) 17:51, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

RD: Bill Hayden

Article: Bill Hayden (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [6]
Credits:

• Nominated by Happily888 (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Governor-General of Australia, 1977–1983. Happily888 (talk) 06:27, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

From 1989 to 1996 per the article. Gotitbro (talk) 10:16, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

• The Weakest of Opposes 99% of the article is pretty well-sourced. However I cannot support because of the 1% that needs to be cited. ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 03:51, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

October 20

Portal:Current events/2023 October 20

October 20, 2023 (2023-10-20) (Friday) Armed conflicts and attacks 2023 Nigerien crisis The French Armed Forces confirms that 1,500 troops will leave Niger by the end of the year, following the military junta's request. (AFP via Le Monde) Israeli–Palestinian conflict Israel–Hamas war Evacuations during the Israel–Hamas war Israel announces the total evacuation of Kiryat Shmona, a city of 20,000 near the border with Lebanon, amid increasing tensions with the militant group Hezbollah. (The Jerusalem Post) Israel–Hamas war hostage crisis Hamas releases two American hostages following mediation by Egypt and Qatar. (AFP via France 24) Russian invasion of Ukraine Battle of Avdiivka Ukrainian forces repel Russian forces from Avdiivka, Donetsk Oblast, saying it has destroyed at least 175 vehicles, including 55 tanks. (Forbes) International relations Foreign relations of Colombia, Foreign relations of the State of Palestine Colombian President Gustavo Petro announces the establishment of an embassy to the State of Palestine in Ramallah in the West Bank, and also announces humanitarian aid to the Gaza Strip amid the ongoing war. (AA) Foreign relations of Italy, Foreign relations of the State of Palestine Italian Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni tells the Cairo Peace Summit the international community must avoid an escalation in the war in Gaza and set a roadmap towards a two-state solution. (Al Jazeera) Foreign relations of Greece, Foreign relations of the State of Palestine Greek Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis calls for a new peace process envisioning an independent State of Palestine alongside Israel, saying "no military intervention can replace a viable political solution". (Al Jazeera) Politics and elections October 2023 Speaker of the United States House of Representatives election The Republican majority fails to deliver enough votes for Jim Jordan to become House Speaker on the third vote, with Jordan also losing a subsequent secret ballot among Republican members, thereby ending his nomination. (CNN)

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RD: Haydn Gwynne

Article: Haydn Gwynne (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

• Nominated by Stephen (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: British actress known for Drop the Dead Donkey in the 90s. Stephen 02:22, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose Career section needs more refs. Scientia potentia est, MonarchOfTerror 16:10, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

October 19

Portal:Current events/2023 October 19

October 19, 2023 (2023-10-19) (Thursday) Armed conflicts and attacks Iraqi conflict Drones and rockets strike the Al-Asad Airbase in Al Anbar Governorate, Iraq, which houses U.S. troops. (Reuters) Israeli–Palestinian conflict Israel–Hamas war Israel–Hezbollah conflict (2023–present) Dozens of rockets are fired at the northern Israeli cities of Nahariya and Kiryat Shmona from southern Lebanon, injuring at least three civilians. Hamas says that its cells in Lebanon were responsible for the rocket attacks. Israel responds with airstrikes on Hezbollah positions. (The Times of Israel) A member of the Security Cabinet of Israel says that the Israel Defense Forces has been given the "green light" to enter the Gaza Strip. (ABC News) Five Palestinians are killed in clashes with the Israeli military at the Nur Shams refugee camp in Tulkarm in the West Bank. (Reuters) Somali Civil War Khatumo is reestablished as one of the federal states of Somalia by the Somali government. (Horseed Media) Yemeni civil war In the Red Sea, the United States Navy destroyer USS Carney uses SM-2 missiles to shoot down three cruise missiles and eight drones launched by Houthi forces in Yemen. The Pentagon says that the missiles and drones were "potentially headed towards Israel". (Yahoo! News) Disasters and accidents 2023–24 European windstorm season Storm Babet impacts the United Kingdom, bringing gale force winds and heavy rains, killing two people in Angus, Scotland, and another person in Shropshire, England. The crew of a Danish fishing trawler is rescued by the RNLI in the North Sea. (BBC News) International relations Canada–India relations Canada withdraws 41 diplomats from India due to India's decision to revoke the diplomats' immunity following the death of Sikh independence leader Hardeep Singh Nijjar. (AFP via NDTV) International reactions to the Israel–Hamas war Israel–United Kingdom relations UK Prime Minister Rishi Sunak visits Israel and meets with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, announcing the UK's solidarity with Israel in its war with Hamas. (BBC News) Israel–Turkey relations Israel withdraws its ambassador Irit Lillian and other diplomats from Turkey after urging its citizens to avoid all travel to the country. (The Jerusalem Post) Law and crime Attempts to overturn the 2020 United States presidential election 2020 Georgia election investigation American attorney Sidney Powell pleads guilty to six misdemeanor charges in the Georgia election racketeering prosecution for her role in attempting to overturn the results in Georgia. (BBC News)

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(Posted) RD: Tony Husband

Article: Tony Husband (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

• Updated and nominated by Black Kite (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Cartoonist, notable mainly for Private Eye magazine. I have expanded and cited it, it's still quite short but sufficient. Black Kite (talk) 09:20, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

• Support Article is sufficient for RD. Scientia potentia est, MonarchOfTerror 16:09, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
• Support ^agree with Monarch ✈ mike_gigs ^talk_contribs 14:48, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
• Posted Stephen 20:50, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Summa Navaratnam

Article: Summa Navaratnam (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Daily Mirror
Credits:

• Updated and nominated by Abishe (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Represented Sri Lanka in both rugby and athletics. Once renowned as fastest runner in Asia. Abishe (talk) 01:01, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

• Support - article has enough sources ✈ mike_gigs ^talk_contribs 13:13, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
• Posted Stephen 03:44, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

Sakharov Prize

Article: Sakharov Prize (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Sakharov Prize is awarded to Mahsa Amini and the Woman, Life, Freedom movement in Iran. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The Sakharov Prize is awarded to Mahsa Amini and the Woman, Life, Freedom movement in Iran.
News source(s): European Parliament press release DW France 24 BBC
Credits:

• Updated and nominated by MonarchOfTerror (talk · give credit)

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: I know we usually bold winners but it might be better to bold the award in this case, given the circumstances. Mahsa Amini doesn't have a standalone article on her, just one on her death, and there's no article on "Iranian woman-led protest movement" (Woman, Life, Freedom referenced is a slogan and not an organization, so that can't really be used either). Note that currently only the Sakharov Prize article is updated because I'm not sure how I would add this information into the other articles. Scientia potentia est, MonarchOfTerror 17:41, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

• Support and I would see no reason in bolding the death article as that is precisely what the award acknowledged (as well as that article being in good shape --Masem (t) 17:46, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
• Weak oppose as the main article on the Sakharov Prize is pretty much a stub, as it's mostly a table. Would love to see more information in there, then I would be happy to support. Iamstillqw3rty (talk) 19:05, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
  • @Iamstillqw3rty: The article for Sakharov Prize is a list, and that's why there's comparatively less prose. Lists should be evaluated differently from other articles — this one is even a featured list. Scientia potentia est, MonarchOfTerror 21:06, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
• Neither bolded article has been updated to mention the prize. Stephen 22:00, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
• Needs work The prize is a motion of the European Parliament and it's not clear who gets the money as Mahsa Amini is dead while "Woman, Life, Freedom" is a slogan not an organisation. There were similar issues last year as the prize was awarded to the "Ukrainian People" and we didn't post it. The nominated article doesn't explain what actually happens in such cases and it doesn't give other details like the votes in that parliament. When even the Nobel Peace Prize is criticised here, it's not clear why we should give prominence to such weak sauce.

Rather than highlighting this empty gesture, it would be more informative to look again at Mahsa Amini protests, which we posted a year ago and ran in Ongoing. That is still being updated and now has an Aftermath section where we read that "...as of September 2023, a crackdown is in process ... a "Hijab and Chastity Bill" passed Iran's parliament, calling for new punishments on women who go unveiled, including prison terms of up to 10 years ...". That seems to be the more relevant parliament as they have the power and jurisdiction.

So, if we're posting this issue again, it should be done fully so that readers understand what is now actually happening on the ground. Here's a summary of the overall situation which was published on the anniversary by yet another parliament.

Andrew🐉(talk) 08:48, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

RD: S. M. Zafar

Article: S. M. Zafar (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Samaa TV
Credits:

• Nominated by Fahads1982 (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Fahads1982 (talk) 15:05, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose for now. There is an unsourced sentence in the "career" section. 🛧Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈) 23:13, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

  It is not a requirement that every sentence is sourced — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 10:34, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

• Support: Now looks good and well cited. Ainty Painty (talk) 09:23, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose Aside from the uncited statement in the career section, there are also 2 unsourced statements in the official posts section and the bibliography needs more sources or ISBNs. Also the infobox mentions his spouse but that isn't sourced anywhere and one of his children isn't sourced either. Side note but is it really necessary to name all of his children? Only one of them has a article (which happens to be the one that isn't sourced too). Scientia potentia est, MonarchOfTerror 12:19, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

RD: Burt Young

Article: Burt Young (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC News
Credits:

• Nominated by TheInevitables (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Actor who played Pauline in the "Rocky" saga. Article seems to be in good shape. TheInevitables (talk) 14:28, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

The filmography doesn't have any sources. 98.170.164.88 (talk) 15:59, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Lasse Berghagen

Article: Lasse Berghagen (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [7]
Credits:

• Updated and nominated by BabbaQ (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 --BabbaQ (talk) 10:29, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

• Support - well cited ✈ mike_gigs ^talk_contribs 13:43, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
• Support. No problems found and looks good enough. 🛧Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈) 23:16, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
• Posted Stephen 00:15, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

(Closed) Russia withdraws from CTBT treaty

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Article: Comprehensive Nuclear-Test-Ban Treaty (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Russian State Duma unanimously votes to revoke Russia's ratification of the CTBT Treaty banning nuclear tests and nuclear explosions. (Post)
News source(s): Reuters
Credits:

• Created and nominated by Synotia (talk · give credit)

 --Synotia (moan) 08:15, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

• Probably support in principle, article not ready The article has not yet been updated at all, nor has its companion article List of parties to the Comprehensive Nuclear-Test-Ban Treaty. The map also fails to reflect the change. Can someone confirm that this is significant enough to post? My understanding is that the treaty was already not in force, but this development is still quite an alarming shock to the status quo and might indicate that future Russian nuclear tests are to be expected. 98.170.164.88 (talk) 09:14, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
  • I retract the "probably support" bit given the comments below, although I remain unsure about significance. Would we post a blurb if, say, China or the US were to ratify the treaty? Revoking ratification seems at least as newsworthy as ratifying, especially given the context of an ongoing conflict. 98.170.164.88 (talk) 09:29, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose Among the countries that haven't ratified the CTBT Treaty are the majority of nuclear weapon states (China, India, Israel, North Korea, Pakistan and the United States). France, Russia and the United Kingdom were the only nuclear weapon states that have ratified it. So, Russia's move from the smaller to the larger group isn't really that important.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 09:21, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose I concur with Kiril; I believe Russia has said they don't intend to actually resume nuclear testing, just that they don't want to be in the treaty any more. 331dot (talk) 09:23, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose The treaty has not even entered into force, so it's moot at this point, thirty years later. --Bedivere (talk) 16:55, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose first off, not notable as stated per above, second, article has no mention of Russia withdrawing from the treaty, and third, it has not come into effect yet. Editor 5426387 (talk) 17:20, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose per Kiril; if the world's other major nuclear power, the US, had ratified it, it would be more notable.

Unknown-Tree (talk) 00:54, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

October 18

Portal:Current events/2023 October 18

October 18, 2023 (2023-10-18) (Wednesday) Armed conflicts and attacks Allied Democratic Forces insurgency Allied Democratic Forces gunmen shoot and kill a British and South African honeymoon couple and their local tour guide at the Queen Elizabeth National Park in Western Uganda. (BBC News) Gaza-Israel conflict Israel–Hamas war Israel–Hezbollah conflict (2023–present) Evacuations during the Israel–Hamas war Saudi Arabia tells its citizens to immediately leave Lebanon due to the deteriorating security situation in the south of the country. (Al Arabiya) 2023 Israeli blockade of the Gaza Strip The United States vetoes a United Nations Security Council resolution that would have condemned violence against civilians while urging humanitarian aid to Palestinians in Gaza. Twelve countries vote in favour of the resolution, while Russia and the United Kingdom abstain. (AP) United Nations experts, including Pedro Arrojo-Agudo, express serious concerns over Israel tightening its siege on Gaza, saying it "is an ongoing campaign resulting in crimes against humanity.” (Anadolu) UN Under-Secretary-General Martin Griffiths reiterates that there are rules of war after the US vetoed the resolution. (Al Jazeera) (Relief Web) Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan condemns the UNSC for failing to pass a resolution for a humanitarian pause, adding that efforts to deescalate the conflict have been impeded by the collective punishment of Palestinians through airstrikes and the deployment of US aircraft carriers to the region. (Reuters) Russian invasion of Ukraine Attacks on civilians in the Russian invasion of Ukraine Russian missile strikes across Ukraine, kill at least 10 people, including five civilians in a strike on an apartment building in Zaporizhzhia, according to Ukrainian officials. (Reuters) (The New York Times) Military aid to Ukraine during the Russo-Ukrainian War, Russia–United States relations Russia says that the U.S. decision to supply Ukraine with long-range ATACMS tactical ballistic missiles is a "grave mistake" which will have serious consequences. Ukrainian forces used the missiles in combat for the first time yesterday. (Reuters) Business and economy Guinea-Bissau's capital Bissau experiences a major blackout after Turkish energy firm Karpowership suspends the supply of electricity to the city over an unpaid bill of at least US$15m. The Guinea-Bissauan government says that the outstanding amount will be paid within 15 days. (BBC News) Philippine President Bongbong Marcos postpones the enactment of the Maharlika Investment Fund, the country's proposed first sovereign wealth fund, citing the need for further review. (Reuters via CNA) Disasters and accidents A driver is arrested after crashing into a group of Pepperdine University students walking in Malibu, California, United States, killing four and injuring two others. (AP) International relations Holy See–Nicaragua relations Nicaragua releases 12 Catholic priests, critical of President Daniel Ortega's regime, and sends them to Rome, Italy, following an agreement with Vatican City. (AFP via The Manila Times) International reactions to the Israel–Hamas war, Israel–United States relations U.S. President Joe Biden visits Israel and meets with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. (The Guardian) United States–Venezuela relations The U.S. Treasury Department announces an ease of certain oil, gas, and gold sanctions on Venezuela following the Venezuelan government and opposition's agreement to conduct elections. (AFP via France 24) Law and crime Disappearance of Natalee Holloway Dutch serial killer Joran van der Sloot confesses in a U.S. federal court that he killed Natalee Holloway. (CNN) Islamic terrorism in Europe, Antisemitism in 21st-century Germany Extremists throw Molotov cocktails at a synagogue in Berlin, Germany. The incident is being investigated as a terrorist attack. (Politico) Israel–Hamas war protests Anti-war activists gather at the Cannon House Office Building in Washington, D.C., calling for a ceasefire. Over 300 people are arrested following the protest. (NBC 4 Washington) The Palace of Versailles and three French airports are temporarily evacuated "for security reasons". (AP) Chadian Defense Minister Daoud Yaya Brahim and the government's general secretary are sacked after a sex tape is leaked showing the two men having sex with other people. (Reuters) Politics and elections 2024 Indonesian presidential election Chairwoman of the ruling Indonesian Democratic Party of Struggle Megawati Sukarnoputri announces that Coordinating Minister for Political, Legal and Security Affairs Mahfud MD will be a vice-presidential running mate for Ganjar Pranowo. (CNA) October 2023 Speaker of the United States House of Representatives election The Republican majority fails to deliver enough votes for Jim Jordan to become House Speaker on the second vote (CNN) Georgian parliament members from the ruling Georgian Dream party fail to impeach President Salome Zourabichvili, securing only 86 of the required 100 votes, after the constitutional court ruled that Zourabichvili violated the constitution by advocating for Georgia's European Union membership during international trips without government approval. (AFP via France 24) Sports 2023 WNBA Finals In basketball, the Las Vegas Aces repeat as WNBA champions, becoming the first team to do so since the Los Angeles Sparks in 2002. (AP)

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(Closed) Natalee Holloway

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Article: Disappearance of Natalee Holloway (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Joran van der Sloot confesses to murdering American student Natalee Holloway (pictured) in 2005. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Joran van der Sloot pleads guilty to extortion and wire fraud in the United States and is sentenced to 20 years concurrent with his Peruvian prison term.
News source(s): CNN
Credits:

• Nominated by Presidentman (talk · give credit)
• Updated by SQB (talk · give credit)

Nominator's comments: Major missing persons case that got prolonged, global, attention. While not technically a conviction, this is probably the closest we'll get. Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 22:05, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

• Comment The confessor is the one making news here, his should be the target article and picture. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:21, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose Not as a significant/well-known/impacting as a crime like the Zodiac Killer, and in the current landscape of news, this really doesn't cut it. It might have been a long time puzzling case, but also extols the issues of missing white woman syndrome of media bias. --Masem (t) 22:44, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose - well-known case, but to the extent that there is a systemic bias towards western news on ITN, I think this would qualify. A similar story elsewhere would never be proposed as a blurb. --Rockstone^{Send me a message!} 23:22, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose good faith nom. This is basically tabloid news. While undoubtedly important to the family and loved ones of the victim, it has no real significance in the broader world. Suggest this be closed. -Ad Orientem (talk) 23:26, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose. Serial killers are known to lie and say they killed more then they actually did. For all we know, van der Sloot is lying, and even if he isn't, as Masem notes, this is hardly the highest-profile murder. DarkSide830 (talk) 00:04, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

Support - meets II, III, and IV of WP:ITNPURPOSE; this would a great chance to put a featured article on ITN, for those who aren't aware, it would surely be somewhat of an interesting story, and it would diversify the range of stories included on here. We should not be limiting stories just due to geographical location on its own; hell, if we were to use the rationale frequently used for doing that when it comes to say, mass shootings, that would actually lend more credence to the position of posting, since the reason why this wouldn't be posted if it happened in say, India or Nigeria, is since stuff like this is unfortunately much more common. — Knightoftheswords 00:45, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose as stale, provincial, special interest only, all of which are typically grounds for SNOW closure This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 01:28, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose per all above. The Kip 02:38, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose Prime example of Missing white woman syndrome. We don't post news about most murders going on in the world on ITN. Canuck^{89 (Gab with me) or visit my user page} 02:53, October 19, 2023 (UTC)
• Leaning oppose. The headline here is that a person long-believed to have almost certainly been murdered by a certain person is now known to have been almost certainly been murdered by that certain person. BD2412 T 03:08, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

October 17

Portal:Current events/2023 October 17

October 17, 2023 (2023-10-17) (Tuesday) Armed conflicts and attacks 2023 Brussels shooting Police in Brussels, Belgium, shoot and kill the Islamic State sympathizer who killed two Swedish tourists yesterday. (BBC News) Arab–Israeli conflict Israel–Hezbollah conflict (2023–present) Five Hezbollah fighters are killed by Israeli soldiers when trying to cross a barrier at the border with Lebanon. (Reuters) Gaza-Israel conflict Israel–Hamas war Al-Ahli Arab Hospital explosion At least 471 people are killed and 314 others are injured by an explosion at Al-Ahli Arab Hospital in Gaza City, according to the Hamas-run Gaza Ministry of Health, saying it was caused by a Israeli airstrike. The casualties are transported to Gaza City’s main hospital, al-Shifa. (Reuters) (AP) The Israel Defense Forces claims to have evidence that the explosion was caused by a Palestinian Islamic Jihad rocket failure. A spokesman for Islamic Jihad calls the Israeli statement "a lie and fabrication." (Reuters) (AP) (The Times of Israel) Palestine’s Permanent Observer Mission to the United Nations sends a statement to media organisations challenging the veracity of comments from Israel after the explosion. (Al Jazeera) The Organization of Islamic Cooperation releases a statement denouncing Israel for the hospital explosion and the international community for its “impunity” in the war in Gaza. (Al Jazeera) U.S. President Joe Biden postpones an upcoming visit to Jordan following the explosion. (Politico) 2023 Israeli blockade of the Gaza Strip, Gaza Strip evacuations The UN High Commissioner for Human Rights says that Israel's blockade of Gaza and its evacuation order in northern Gaza may amount to a forcible transfer of civilians, which is a violation of international law. (The Washington Post) (Reuters) October 2023 UNRWA school airstrike An Israeli airstrike hits a United Nations school inside a refugee camp in Gaza, killing at least six of the more than 4,000 people sheltering there. Dozens more are injured, including UNRWA staff. (United Nations) The Israeli Ministry of Health says that 4,399 people in Israel have been injured since the start of the war. (The Times of Israel) The World Health Organization says that 2,800 people have died and 11,000 have been injured in Gaza since Israeli air strikes began, with about half of those being women and children. (Reuters) The World Health Organization says that there have been 51 attacks against healthcare facilities in Gaza, killing 15 health workers and injuring 27 others, and that "we have seen consistent attacks on healthcare in the occupied Palestinian territory." (Reuters) (United Nations) Hamas announces that Ayman Nofal, a member of the general military council and commander of the central command in the Al-Qassam Brigades, was killed in an Israeli airstrike. (AFP via Al Arabiya) Russian invasion of Ukraine 2023 Ukrainian counteroffensive Ukraine launches ATACMS tactical ballistic missiles at Russian bases in Berdiansk and Luhansk, saying that they destroyed nine helicopters and a supply depot and killed several Russian military personnel. (BBC News) (AP) International relations Hungary–Russia relations Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orbán and Russian President Vladimir Putin hold talks at the Belt and Road Initiative forum in Beijing, China. (AP) Russia and weapons of mass destruction The State Duma votes unanimously to revoke Russia's ratification of the Comprehensive Nuclear-Test-Ban Treaty. (AFP via The Moscow Times) Law and crime LGBT rights in India The Supreme Court of India refuses to legalize same-sex marriage, saying that this is a decision that needs to be made by parliament. (AP) Killing of Wadea al-Fayoume The Diocese of Joliet, Illinois, confirms that Joseph Czuba, the man charged with killing a 6-year-old Palestinian Muslim Wadea al-Fayoume and injuring the boy's mother, is a member of a local Catholic Church parish. (America) Politics and elections October 2023 Speaker of the United States House of Representatives election The Republican majority fails to deliver enough votes for Jim Jordan to become House Speaker on the first vote, with 20 members of the Republican party voting against him. (CNN)

---

(Posted) RD: Carla Bley

Article: Carla Bley (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NYT
Credits:

• Updated and nominated by Gerda Arendt (talk · give credit)
• Updated by MonarchOfTerror (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Iconic jazz pianist, composer, bandleader, influential in the 1960s, and last recording 2020. So far there was not much to be updated, I replaced 2 dated references for a German Award by a working one. A better lead would be nice, and more text to not have it sandwiched. I'll see what I can do, and help is welcome, especially from someone who can access the NYT obit. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:27, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

• Support - nice nom, Gerda. I think it looks good enough to post ✈ mike_gigs ^talk_contribs 13:11, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
• Support - Sure. Well sourced and decent enough. I do not see any problems. 🛧Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈) 13:29, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
• Support Meets requirements. Ollieisanerd (talk • contribs) 19:10, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
• @Admins willing to post ITN: BangJan1999 19:53, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
• Posted The discography section should have some content but it's not a show-stopper. Schwede66 20:28, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Gaza hospital explosion

Article: Al-Ahli Arab Hospital explosion (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Amid the 2023 Israel–Hamas war, an explosion at a hospital in Gaza kills at least 200 people. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In Gaza, at least 200 people are killed in an explosion at a hospital.
Alternative blurb II: ​ At least 200 people are killed in an explosion at a hospital in Gaza.
News source(s): CNN, Reuters
Credits:

• Nominated by FatCat96 (talk · give credit)
• Created by Super ninja2 (talk · give credit)

 FatCat96 (talk) 18:14, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

It is a part of the 2023 Israel–Hamas war, but 500 casualties is enough to be on the ITN in my opinion. Thats, just, a lot. Lukt64 (talk) 18:19, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

support Lukt64 (talk) 18:19, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

we didnt post every massacre done by Hamas when they were attacking, we just had a general terrorist attack blurb which then became a war. so why should we put every attack done by Israel when we already have the general war in ongoing? JM2023 (talk) 18:34, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Yes, but this is more deadly than the entire Operation Al-Aqsa Flood. This is a big deal. Lukt64 (talk) 18:43, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

There were roughly 1,100 Israelis killed in the initial wave of attacks; I'm not sure what you mean. The Kip 18:59, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Firstly, this is not more deadly than that; over 1,100 Israelis, including many children, were slaughtered during that attack, and last I heard they were still finding bodies. Secondly, this event did not start a conflict. Thirdly, it's still included in the war. Fourthly, the article now has a POV tag and it's alleged this could be a Hamas rocket blamed on Israel; we should be especially cautious of Hamas and allies considering their massive outbursts of genocidal antisemitism recently. Unless we have a Srebrenica situation of sufficient magnitutde then I'm opposed to adding events like this. JM2023 (talk) 19:39, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

• Support publishing it soon, but make sure it is definitively known whoever launched the attack. Most sources are saying that Israel bombed the hospital but there's claims that it was actually caused by PIJ. Either way, the destruction of over 500 lives is unimaginable and as newsworthy as the most horrible losses of life of the 21st century. HadesTTW (he/him • talk) 22:46, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose we have ongoing for this reason, and I do not see why we need a separate article for this. --Masem (t) 18:24, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
  • Reiterating my Oppose after 24+ hr, where it is clear that the damage may not have been as extensive as it was previously claimed (due to prior strikes) and that while I know the Pentagon has said it was from Hamas activities, there's still so much unknown, including the death toll, that this should be an aspect of the ongoing war but not a headline we should be trying to feature. --Masem (t) 23:52, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose the entire Israel-Hamas War is covered in Ongoing. Also I noticed this said "massacre" before being changed to "airstrike", good because it would be POV to call it a massacre when the actual article is titled an airstrike. JM2023 (talk) 18:32, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
• Wait for several reasons: what's stated above (which is debatable, imo; we blurbed the Bucha massacre, and sometimes casualty count/impact can override the ongoing item), the fact the article is currently a stub, and most importantly, the fact that for the moment it's Hamas' word versus the Israeli government's, and neither are exactly neutral actors; independent and reputable press verification, if possible, should be sought out before blurbing. The Kip 18:34, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

  Update: Article is also now orange-tagged for POV, given assertions of responsibility versus reporting from reputable media. The Kip 18:58, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

  The Kip, any update on this vote, given that your concerns have mostly been addressed at the article's talk? AryKun (talk) 06:26, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

  I’ll strike my NPOV concern and the stub concern, but the responsibility one (which we can’t control) is still existent to a degree. The Kip 15:20, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

  While not entirely overruling my original vote, I’m now leaning oppose - besides the still-disputed responsibility, there’s now even considerable doubt as to the actual death toll, with the original claim of 500+ being retracted and estimates ranging from as low as 50 to as high as 470. There’s just too much fog of war to post a blurb with any definitive information, besides “an explosion happened that killed some people.” The Kip 16:38, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

• Wait. If it is an airstrike on the hospital and the purported death toll is as sources are reporting, it is certainly blurbable regardless of the ongoing status. Black Kite (talk) 18:36, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose Terrible tragedy but this sort of thing happens in war and the war has been posted in ongoing. On a side note we don't have a lot of hard facts from reliable sources. The numbers being quoted are almost entirely coming from Hamas or affiliated entities, none of which would pass WP:RS. I don't doubt that something dreadful has happened, but it is likely to be sometime before we get details from sources that can be trusted. -Ad Orientem (talk) 18:39, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
• Wait (leaning oppose) for reasons mentioned above. Covered in ongoing and it's not entirely clear who is responsible at the moment. This tragedy just happened and there are already unverified reports that it may have been a failed Hamas rocket (which is, imho, no more reliable than Hamas officials reporting it was an Israeli airstrike). Kcmastrpc (talk) 18:40, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

• Strong Support for alt-blurb. Given the significance of media coverage and resulting events this is very much ITN-worthy. It's not even clear what the death count is at the moment, however, that's secondary to the tertiary events that unfolded immediately after the incident which are still unfolding. Kcmastrpc (talk) 12:33, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

• Support as per Lukt64, this is a big number. ☆SuperNinja2☆ 18:42, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

  Support - we posted the Bucha massacre, which saw similar body counts, and although it may be accounted via ongoing, there are always certain stories such as the Crimean bridge explosion and the like that are unique/major enough to warrant a blurb, regardless if the parent article is in ongoing. I would wait for more sources to come out and for the article to be expanded however. — Knightoftheswords 18:42, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

  seems the Bucha rationale is now moot due to Israeli and US intelligence findings. JM2023 (talk) 08:47, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

  Support - HUGE incident, despite the war being in ongoing already, this war crime against humanity deserves a blurb CR-1-AB (talk) 19:11, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

  We don't even know who did it yet. Some now allege it was a Hamas rocket. You shouldn't jump to conclusions and call it a crime against humanity to support significance. Also "war crimes" and "crimes against humanity" exist but not "war crimes against humanity". JM2023 (talk) 19:57, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

  Support - The scale of this atrocity makes it important to include. 2001:569:57B2:4D00:84CE:346A:7D23:D4F5 (talk) 19:13, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

• Wait: Initial reports of casualties and perpetrator are still uncertain. ARandomName123 (talk)^{Ping me!} 19:14, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
• Wait The real authorship of this execrable massacre is not confirmed by the RS sources, which only include the communiqué of the Palestinian Ministry of Health. I don't think it’s comparable to the Bucha massacre either in a war context, nor in an operational or significant context. _-_Alsor (talk) 19:56, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

  Exactly, however unfortunate it may be, lines have often been drawn by nations between the civilian bombing campaigns of total war and the personal door-to-door massacres of genocidal actors. And no wars are being started over this. JM2023 (talk) 20:02, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

  You’re totally right. _-_Alsor (talk) 20:15, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

• Support - Truly shocking to read, RIP to all those poor people - a war crime and a crime against humanity. Similar has also been posted relating to the Russo-Ukraine war. AnthonyIreland 19:54, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

  do you have additional comments now that it has come out that both US and Israeli intelligence indicates with strong likelihood that it was a Palestinian missile? JM2023 (talk) 08:46, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

• Comment Israel is now formally denying responsibility. They are claiming that the Palestinians blew up the hospital, probably by accident, while using it as a launch site for their own missiles aimed at Israel's civilian population centers. I reaffirm my oppose. But if this is posted, the currently written blurb assigning blame to Israel cannot be used. -Ad Orientem (talk) 20:01, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Russians denyed the Bucha massacre but that wasn't enough for it not to be included in ITN section at the time. ☆SuperNinja2☆ 20:31, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Israel is probably more credible than Russia. Bucha's responsibility probably had more sources than Hamas press releases. JM2023 (talk) 21:01, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

I don't think so. Israelies have long long records of violating human rights records and using internationally prohibited weapons like white phosphorus and lying. So it's definitely not "more credible" than Russia. ☆SuperNinja2☆ 10:21, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

In a competition between Hamas and Israel in terms of human right violations and lying, I think I choose Israel as the more credible source. For various obvious reasons. Also those sources are pretty one-sided, ignoring Palestinian actions. You have to look at the two sides of the war if it's a credibility contest. A few examples of various allegations is not systematic enough of an analysis to show Israel lies on the level of Russia. JM2023 (talk) 16:19, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

The Bucha massacre has been independently investigated by international authorities who have formally accused Russia of the atrocity. I think there is a pretty strong consensus within the community that both Hamas and the Russian government are not reliable sources on any matter of controversy. To be sure the Israelis are not saints. But when they have screwed up in the past, they have typically owned their mistakes. Ad Orientem (talk) 21:24, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

No, they never had. Drop it already. ☆SuperNinja2☆ 11:46, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

One example is not enough. JM2023 (talk) 16:37, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

They mean when they screw up in their press releases and stuff, not human rights which is pretty much universally known Aaron Liu (talk) 16:39, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

• even besides the POV issue, the currently written blurb also has several typographic errors ("israel airstrike" instead of "an Israeli airstrike") JM2023 (talk) 20:04, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

• Comment In conjunction with the disputed responsibility and NPOV edits on the article, I've proposed a more neutral altblurb for now The Kip 20:04, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Oppose. Covered in ongoing. Kirill C1 (talk) 20:08, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

• Respectful oppose Part of the reason for having an ongoing section is to avoid the inevitable tit-for-tat "we posted this attack so why can't we post that attack". Bucha was by far the exception rather than the norm. Curbon7 (talk) 20:29, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

  In my view for ITN purposes, where this differs from Bucha is that this strike was directly part of the war covered by ongoing, whereas Bucha was not. Curbon7 (talk) 07:37, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

• Support per KoTS. Not sure how Bucha clears our bar but this doesn't. DarkSide830 (talk) 21:20, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

  Bucha was a personal purposeful massacre by an enemy country invading another -- this, according to US intelligence, was a Palestinian failure. totally different. JM2023 (talk) 08:44, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

Support It's an ongoing event and it's worthy of coverage in international news. Rager7 (talk) 21:41, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

• Support per above. Death toll is comparable to the Bucha massacre which we posted. Very notable event no matter who perpetrated it (The Guardian says the explosion was too large to have been Hamas), though it's probably best to wait and see if there will be more clarity on that in the coming days. Davey2116 (talk) 21:41, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

  While people may compare the death toll, the significance in terms of what the event actually was is not comparable (not to imply that you did so). Bucha featured indiscriminate shooting of civilians and torture-murders of civilians including minors. There is a meaningful difference of significance. JM2023 (talk) 22:18, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

• Support Death toll is significant, and the explosion has recent a noteworthy amount of attention as a standalone event despite it being part of the 2023 Israel-Hamas War. TheInevitables (talk) 22:47, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
• Comment (partial support). While the attack is covered in the main article, this is shocking and the death toll is very high (per nom), but the attacker is still unknown. Also, I would support the alt blurb per WP:NPOV, as the original blurb says that Israel launched the airstrike, which is currently disputed. 🛧Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈) 23:23, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
• Support posting, but Strong Oppose attributing the attack to anyone until we know more. The first suggested blurb inappropriately assigns blame. --Rockstone^{Send me a message!} 23:23, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose - First and foremost, because several pivotal info and still unknown. Who is responsible for the attack? How many people really died? We need to be responsible here, to avoid becoming a misinformation tool. We are not a news ticker, so why the rush? Let's wait until things get clear and then discuss if this is newsworthy.--Kacamata! ^Dimmi!!! 23:26, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose The details of the incident are disputed and we have the overall war as an ongoing entry. Note that this is a contentious topic and so we are required to "err on the side of caution". Andrew🐉(talk) 23:27, 17 October 2023 (UTC) (edit conflict)
• Comment - I would like to make it clear that I wrote the blurb when the blame was being put on Israel, and that I will not be voicing my opinion on who is wright or who is wrong in the ongoing conflict. FatCat96 (talk) 23:51, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

I would suggest you should modify the original blurb. --Rockstone^{Send me a message!} 23:53, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Will do. FatCat96 (talk) 23:55, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

• Support one of the altblurbs. While there is still some confusion about the cause of the explosion (though it seems highly unlikely that a Palestinian rocket could do such damage), the high death toll, the singular nature of the event, and the location being a hospital pushes it above the threshold to get something that is usually covered by an ongoing item into a new blurb. This is similar to how the Bucha massacre, which had a similar reported death toll was blurbed despite it being covered by an ongoing entry. For comparison and, while not covered by an ongoing item, the 2015 Kunduz hospital airstrike was blurbed with around 40 deaths. -- Patar knight - ^chat/_{contributions} 03:15, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose For the same reason I opposed most Ukraine-Russia proposals: covered by ongoing. The rationale of a massacre is not without ground but unless an actor can be definitively attributed for this I remain opposed. Gotitbro (talk) 03:37, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
• Wait until the party actually responsible for the airstrike is confirmed. After that, consider my vote as a weak support. S5A-0043^Talk 03:39, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
• Support the main blurb. Since our blurb doesn't assign responsibility to anyone, I don't see why we need to wait to ascertain the party responsible. Likewise, the casualties have been widely reported[8][9].VR _talk 06:14, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

  Because the determination of the responsible party changes the nature from being a mistaken explosion (Israel claim) to a massacre (Hamas claim). Gotitbro (talk) 10:11, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

• Support war crime with immense death toll regardless of who did it; also, we are probably not going to get immediate clarity on the perpetrator as we did in Bucha, because Bucha wasn't being blockaded and carpet-bombed and thus had independent investigators who could go there. We did mention the hundreds dead from Hamas' attacks in the original blurb; the reason we didn't blurb each massacre separately is the same reason why we wouldn't blurb 5 different hospitals getting bombed individually. AryKun (talk) 06:25, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Oppose - Issues with the article and the unknown nature of the attack makes it difficult to make a case to blurb. If the resulting fallout of this is significant enough then I would consider Supporting. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 06:52, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

• Support but wait. Number of casualties is unclear, but the event on itself is significant enough, with multiple world leaders commenting on it, and it is all over the news. Blurb will probably need to be modified. AdrianHObradors (talk) 09:32, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
  • Changing to support. Still think the blurb needs to be changed. kills at least 200 people might be incorrect. — AdrianHObradors (talk) 09:29, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose, unless we can say who was responsible, in which case Support. If we can't, then we need to include the broader context to avoid NPOV issues from readers making assumptions, similar to WP:CATPOV, and there isn't space for such broader context. BilledMammal (talk) 09:37, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

  Yeah if the perpretrator of the attack is found then I would Support PrecariousWorlds (talk) 10:46, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Support per nom Abo Yemen✉ 11:48, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

• Wait per Gotitbro. A combination of this being covered by ongoing and also not knowing who perpetrated the attack. If there is definitive evidence on who is responsible, I'd be willing to rethink ✈ mike_gigs ^talk_contribs 12:07, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
• Wait, likely a couple days, as preliminary investigations are still ongoing, both on the perpetrator and the death toll. Then, support. I revoke my earlier stance. —  Melofors  TC 16:02, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Oppose, covered by ongoing whoeveer turns out to have done it QueensanditsCrazy (talk) 18:08, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

It’s a very significant event even outside of the ongoing. Aaron Liu (talk) 18:12, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

It does not matter who did, for the news sake. The blurb is silent in this term. --Mhhossein ^talk 20:26, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Support the main blurb. It's a significant event and made a huge amount of reactions worldwide. The article is also ready for this. Certainly newsworthy. --Mhhossein ^talk 20:28, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose Big thing indeed, but Covered by Ongoing, just like the siege and next big thing. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:42, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
• Support per Bucha precedent as discussed above This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 03:47, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

  Bucha was well-established as being a Russian perpetration; Israeli and US intelligence say its much more likely a Palestinian action, not an Israeli one. This may change your conclusion. JM2023 (talk) 08:50, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

  I don’t see how the fact that Bucha was perpetrated by Russia changes much Aaron Liu (talk) 12:20, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

  Because Russia was the invading country and Bucha was perpetrated against Ukrainian citizens on purpose, while Palestine apparently accidentally bombed its own citizens. That probably makes a significant difference. It's not that Bucha was specifically Russia or that this was specifically Palestine, it's that Bucha was against foreign citizens on purpose by an invading country whereas this was against one's own citizens apparently by accident and domestically. JM2023 (talk) 20:01, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

Support This is likely to further erode Israel's ties with the Arab world. Synotia (moan) 08:09, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

Why? US and Israeli intelligence strongly indicates it was a Palestinian bombing. JM2023 (talk) 20:02, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

Palestine still trusts Palestine info, but on the other hand, well... Aaron Liu (talk) 20:04, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

I don't understand, could you elaborate? JM2023 (talk) 20:06, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

Palestine is kinda part of the Arab world. I'm not sure if the Arab world trusts Palestine information, but maybe that's what Synotia meant. Aaron Liu (talk) 20:25, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

You're right, based on the observed pro-Palestine and pro-Hamas protests across the Arab world and even the Western world, it's an indication that the Arab world may stick to the Palestinian (very likely false) narrative and thus compromise Arab-Israeli relations. I'm not sure if that gives significance to the explosion itself. JM2023 (talk) 20:30, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

Support: Doesn't matter if we know who did it or not. The topic and article is sufficient enough to appear on ITN. Prodrummer619 (talk) 10:11, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose Covered in ongoing; I'd caution against posting individual attacks - we'll enter a never-ending cycle of "we posted that so we should post this" Schwinnspeed (talk) 13:11, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose per Kip. The large death count that previously established this event's separation from the ongoing is now in serious doubt. Aaron Liu (talk) 16:50, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
• Support Significant event within the context of the war, regardless of the several points of view regarding the facts. I'm also sure this won't get posted, so take this as a moral support. Bedivere (talk) 16:51, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

  What would your claim to this event's significance be? Aaron Liu (talk) 16:59, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

  At least one hundred (as per the lowest figure presented by reputable sources) people died. How can that not be significant by any standards? Bedivere (talk) 05:47, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

  This is a war, just 100 is not enough to put outside ongoing, not to mention the lowest estimate is 50 from the credible CNA (nonprofit) and the DNI also gave an upwards estimate of 300 Aaron Liu (talk) 12:17, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

• Support as this incident is being widely covered in the international media. Pirate of the High Seas (talk) 06:07, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
• Support even as a controversey, this event has a sufficiently-wide coverage that it is not far less significant than the initial Hamas attack (nor is the deathtoll that different). Per Bucha Massacre above - for those who respond that this isn't covered by the same level of WP:RS, you can't expect it to. The conditions are different: not every war has the 'luxury' of a conflict in Europe, but certainly the amount of coverage is comparable to say the least --Abbad (talk) 09:19, 21 October 2023 (UTC).

  it is not far less significant than the initial Hamas attack (nor is the deathtoll that different) that is entirely untrue. The Hamas attack was a terrorist attack where Hamas terrorists slaughtered thousands of Israelis in their own communities, including the beheading and burning of children in their homes, on the basis that they were Jewish. The death toll is far over 1000. This was a hospital bombing with most likely Palestinian blame and is likely an accident, and current estimates are as low as only 50 deaths. 20 times the number were personally killed in the initial terrorist attack by Hamas.

  Also Per Bucha Massacre above as has been noted, the Bucha massacre was perpetrated by Russian invading soldiers on the ground against Ukranian civilians and involved torture murders of minors; this was a hospital bombing of likely Palestinian blame and may very well be an accident. JM2023 (talk) 17:58, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

  I thought the beheading of children reports had been dismissed as propaganda. Is there any evidence of this? We shouldn't be spreading propaganda by either side. Nfitz (talk) 22:46, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

  Not according to the Independent or the Telegraph. JM2023 (talk) 03:05, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose There is too much uncertainty about the event, with some reports the death toll was as low as 50. Pawnkingthree (talk) 11:57, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

  Those "some reports" are individual analysis based on photos and videos available online and elsewhere, which are not comparable to official reports. --Mhhossein ^talk 19:08, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

  Hmm, the figure used to be misattributed to the center of naval analysis. There is still a sourced claim about an European official who reported the same figure. Aaron Liu (talk) 19:31, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

Same-sex marriage in India

Article: Supriyo v. Union of India (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Supreme Court of India rules that right to marriage is not fundamental (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The Supreme Court of India rules that same-sex marriage is not protected by Indian law.
Alternative blurb II: ​ The Supreme Court of India rules that the legality of same-sex marriage can only be decided by parliament.
News source(s): BBC The Indian Express NDTV Aljazeera
Credits:

• Nominated by PrinceofPunjab (talk · give credit)

Nominator's comments: Quite a significant news story which is getting international coverage. PrinceofPunjab (talk) 13:46, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

• Wait - article has not yet been updated with the case ruling ✈ mike_gigs ^talk_contribs 14:01, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose The court found that it didn't have the power to change the various pieces of legislation and so that was a matter for legislators. So the status quo continues and there's no significant change. Andrew🐉(talk) 14:46, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
• Comment Added altblurb. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 15:10, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
• Comment Didn't we just reject a story about the legal status of same-sex marriage in another country? 98.170.164.88 (talk) 16:00, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

  Yes, Mauritius SSM was rejected because not only was the blurb outright false, it wasn't a major first in anything, so it didnt meet notability benchmarks. JM2023 (talk) 16:39, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

  It wasn't even SSM in Mauritus - it was the legalization of same-sex sexual relations, which had already been legalized in I believe at least nine African countries (not even counting those where it wasn't illegal in the first place). The Kip 18:27, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose we just rejected Mauritius SSM because it wasn't a major first in anything. This is even less notable -- court decides to do nothing about it and tells politicians to do something instead. Not significant enough. Also the original blurb has multiple grammatical errors (at least 3 at first glance). JM2023 (talk) 16:38, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

  Comment

  Understandable proposal, considering that India has over a billion people in it.

  But, mauritius Lukt64 (talk) 18:08, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

• Support upon improvements With having the first or second largest population, this is a significant effect. Even if maintains the status quo or not the first such country to deny rights, its large enough to be a major concern overall. --Masem (t) 18:26, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

  Is it even "denying rights" though? seems like its just the court going "this right does not exist in the constitution". i.e. the right was denied by whoever wrote the constitution, and will be denied by parliament if it votes down a law. JM2023 (talk) 18:29, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

  Arguably yes, but I think that at a broad scale, denying equality in things like marriage and other rights to same sex couples (as well as other things broadly under the LGBTQ+ banner) is seen as an issue, comparable with the lack of women's rights in Middle Eastern countries, for example. and while the Court did say that the gov't should review policies to assure that while they can't grant marriages they can grant other benefits to same-sex couples, the articles I've read imply that this current Indian gov't is very much unlikely to follow those recommendations.

  I would compare this to last year's Dobbs decision from the US SC that remove abortion rights, which also claimed it wasn't in the Constitution. Masem (t) 00:23, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

  But that overturned a prior decision. This is what I'm trying to get at. Was SSM a constitutional right in India before this decision, the same way abortion was in the US before Dobbs? It doesn't seem notable or significant to me if not. Like if the King of the KSA was asked and said "women actually need to be subject to these laws" but its just re-affirming something that is already the case, that is not significant. JM2023 (talk) 01:15, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

• Very weak support I can be convinced to flip my vote, but on first glance, although it doesn't change the status quo, it's the largest or second-largest nation on the planet - as such, the decision has at least some notable impact. The Kip 18:28, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose The ruling right-wing government is anti-same-sex marriage and this is obviously not going to change that. May have been blurbable had the outcome been the opposite. Black Kite (talk) 18:38, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
• Support Every time SSM is legalized it is almost invariably nominated here, and I have generally opposed over the last few years as these events have become routine. This is a fairly unusual case of the supreme court in the world's most populous democracy saying no. It is both unexpected and frankly newsworthy just by virtue of its defying the global trend in democratic societies. -Ad Orientem (talk) 18:45, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
• Support mostly per Ad Orientem. It's considered commonplace for a nation to legalize same-sex marriage and this is unusual in that it's a more anachronistic ruling. Also, it's one of the most populous and thus most influential nations, so any ruling about same-sex marriage is therefore important. Sincerely, Novo Tape (She/Her)^{My Talk Page} 19:34, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

  I wonder about that. Was SSM previously recognized by the indian SC as a fundamental right? Did this overturn a previous SC case that recognized SSM? If not, then there is nothing significant here. If another abortion case came to the SCOTUS and they ruled in a way that didn't overturn any of their prior major abortion decisions, that would not be significant. If the SC is just telling us what's in the Indian constitution without contradicting a previous decision of itself, that seems like it's not significant. What may be significant is if the Parliament of India passed a law banning SSM. JM2023 (talk) 19:55, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

  In my view it's important for two reasons:

  1. It confirms the SC can merely interpret laws. If the SCOTUS were to pass a ruling reaffirming, for example, judicial review in the United States, I'd consider that significant, even it's merely supporting the status quo.
  2. The government will, if nothing else, set up a panel to consider LGBTIA+ rights. Sincerely, Novo Tape (She/Her)^{My Talk Page} 18:28, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose This decision merely maintains the status quo and doesn't change much. TheInevitables (talk) 22:49, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose - this decision doesn't change anything. If India legalizes gay marriage, I will support it. --Rockstone^{Send me a message!} 23:27, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose – Per above, nothing changes. I would support if it was legalized, but the status quo doesn't seem newsworthy to me here. DecafPotato (talk) 03:42, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose per Andrew. They simply ruled that they did not have the right to dictate this. Though IMO if the legislature went against it then we should post that. Aaron Liu (talk) 12:58, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
• Support - Agree with Masem, the size of the population, and therefore subsequent coverage makes this notable and ITN-worthy. Schwinnspeed (talk) 16:15, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

Support per Ad Orientem; SSM cases have become more prevalent in recent years, however, its rare to see one that rejects the move. Opposing just because "the status quo" would be like not posting a re-election because it's technically the "status quo;" it will still have major ramifications in the years to come. — Knightoftheswords 00:50, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

It is not a rejection, it boils down to "this does not fall under our jurisdiction as it is not mentioned in the constitution". You wouldn't like any supreme court to create a new rule that has no mention at all in the existing laws and articles. Aaron Liu (talk) 00:52, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

The original blurb also said that they found that no kind of marriage was under their jurisdiction. The court instead accepted the government's offer to set up a panel to consider granting more legal rights and benefits to same-sex couples. I've created alt-blurb II, though I doubt many people would see it and I do not support this being ITN. Aaron Liu (talk) 01:14, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

• Support per consensus that SSM legalization is functionally ITN/R; I see no reason the negative not be the case, especially given the populations affected This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 03:48, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

  It’s not a rejection, it’s an “in-progress”. Aaron Liu (talk) 11:34, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

  Can you point to this consensus anywhere? -- Pawnkingthree (talk) 19:09, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose This isn't a change in law, nor is a change in law being blocked. This is merely a clarification. This is far too trivial to post & I'm baffled at the length of this discussion. It shouldn't even have been nominated. Jim 2 Michael (talk) 18:40, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose To me, the story would have been if it had been legalized. "Not our jurisdiction" doesn't seem noteworthy.-- Pawnkingthree (talk) 19:09, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

(Closed) Ongoing removal: Russian invasion of Ukraine

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Article: Russian invasion of Ukraine (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item removal (Post)

Nominator's comments: We have just removed the Sudan war despite the fact that the war was not over. This should also be removed. While the timeline section is being updated, it is more minor events rather than anything major. Interstellarity (talk) 13:30, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Oppose

This isnt a civil war, its a war between the 2 largest nations in Europe. Its a bigger deal, at least geopolitically, than any African wars for now. Lukt64 (talk) 13:35, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

• Strong oppose & WP:SNOW close Here we go again. This war is still ongoing and raging on. Battles around Avdiivka have intensified greatly. We had this exact discussion a few months ago. TwistedAxe [contact] 13:57, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose - article is still being updated and war is still very much going on ✈ mike_gigs ^talk_contribs 14:02, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose there is still news coverage near daily of events in this conflict, in contrast to far less significant coverage of events in the Sudan one. --Masem (t) 14:06, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Eric Tweedale

Article: Eric Tweedale (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [10]
Credits:

• Nominated by The C of E (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Normantas Bataitis (talk · give credit) and The C of E (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Australian centenarian and formerly the oldest Australia national rugby union team player  The C of E God Save the King! (talk) 09:42, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

• Support - well cited ✈ mike_gigs ^talk_contribs 13:52, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
• Support. Per above. Article looks decent enough. 🛧Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈) 14:33, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
• Posted Stephen 08:59, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

RD: Tim Wallis

Article: Tim Wallis (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/10/17/warbirds-over-wanaka-founder-sir-tim-wallis-dies-aged-85/
Credits:

• Updated by Zyates87 (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: New Zealand aviator and pioneer of the live deer recovery. 65.94.213.53 (talk) 09:31, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose. Needs more citations as several sections in the article are unsourced. 🛧Midori No Sora♪🛪 ( ☁＝☁＝✈) 14:35, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

October 16

Portal:Current events/2023 October 16

October 16, 2023 (2023-10-16) (Monday) Armed conflicts and attacks Islamic terrorism in Europe 2023 Brussels shooting Two Swedish nationals are killed and another is injured during a shooting in Brussels, Belgium. The perpetrator, Tunisian Abdesalem Lassoued, an Islamic State sympathizer, flees the scene. (Reuters) Islamist insurgency in the Sahel Mali War The United Nations peacekeeping mission in Mali, MINUSMA, initiates a withdrawal from two camps in Aguelhok and Tessalit, Kidal Region. (AFP via Al-Ahram) Israeli–Palestinian conflict Israel–Hamas war Evacuations during the Israel–Hamas war The World Health Organization says that 21 hospitals in Gaza have been ordered to evacuate by Israel, warning that this "may amount to a violation of international humanitarian law". (Financial Times) Israel begins evacuating 28 communities located within two kilometers of the border with Lebanon amid clashes with Hezbollah. (Fox News) Hundreds of Americans are evacuated by sea from Haifa, Israel, to Cyprus. (The Jewish Chronicle) Journalists killed in the Israel–Hamas war Muhammad al-Najjar, a member of the Board of Directors of the national authority for the documentation and prosecution of crimes committed by the Israeli government, is killed in an Israeli airstrike, along with 16 members of his family. (Al Jazeera) Eleven Palestinian journalists have been killed by the Israeli military and more than 20 others have been injured, according to the Palestinian Journalists Syndicate. (The Express Tribune) Israel–Hamas war hostage crisis Hamas releases the first video of a hostage on Telegram since the war started, a 21-year-old Israeli woman from Shoham who was kidnapped during the Re'im music festival massacre. In the video, the woman claims to be receiving medical treatment from her captors. (The Jerusalem Post) 2023 Israeli blockade of the Gaza Strip The World Health Organization announces that there are only 24 hours of water, electricity, and fuel remaining in Gaza. (CBS News) Medical Aid for Palestinians says that hospitals in Gaza are currently facing a "catastrophic" shortage of medical supplies with the United Nations also reporting that at least four hospitals in northern Gaza are no longer operational because of Israeli bombings. (Al Jazeera) The chief of the UN agency for Palestine, UNRWA, announces it can no longer deliver assistance to the hundreds of thousands of people in need in Gaza. (The Washington Post) Sameh Shoukry, Egypt's Minister of Foreign Affairs, announces that US-backed efforts to re-open the Rafah border crossing have failed, citing Israel's refusal to guarantee the safety of incoming aid convoys and outgoing foreign nationals. (Reuters) (CNN) The United Nations reports that more than 400,000 Palestinians are sheltering in UN schools and buildings in the Gaza Strip and that fourteen UNRWA personnel have been killed in Israeli airstrikes. (Al Jazeera) Palestinians protest in several cities across the West Bank calling for an end to Israeli attacks on Gaza. (Al Jazeera) The UNRWA retracts its statements concerning looting by Hamas affiliates, clarifying that they have confirmed no theft had taken place, after a prior announcement that men claiming to be from Hamas stole fuel and medicine from their offices in Gaza. Subsequently, Israeli journalist Barak Ravid claims to have received additional confirmation from sources within the United Nations that such theft did, in fact, occur. (Jewish Chronicle) (CBS News) (Times of Israel) At least six civilians are killed and eight others are injured in airstrikes near Khan Younis and at least seven people, including five emergency workers, are killed in Israeli airstrikes on two civil defense facilities in Gaza City. (Al Jazeera) At least four people, including three children, are killed as a result of an Israeli airstrike on the UN Nuseirat refugee camp in central Gaza. (Al Jazeera) Hamas forces launch missiles at the two largest Israeli cities, Tel Aviv and Jerusalem, saying that this was in response to Israel's "targeting of civilians". (BBC News) Israeli military forces carry out raids in multiple areas in the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, Nablus, Bethlehem, and Hebron, arresting around 600 people. Most are held without charges under "administrative detention", where the individuals are not told the reasons for their arrest. (Al Jazeera) Hamas Shura Council member Osama Mazini, who was in charge of negotiation affairs concerning the captured Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit, is killed in an airstrike in the Gaza Strip. (Israel National News) A report by a UN-mandated investigative body has found that Israeli forces used "lethal force without justification" when they shot and killed Al Jazeera journalist Shireen Abu Akleh in the West Bank last year. (Al Jazeera) International relations China–Philippines relations Territorial disputes in the South China Sea The Philippine military demands that China stop "dangerous and offensive" actions in the South China Sea after a People's Liberation Army Navy ship performed "aggressive maneuvers" near the disputed Thitu Island last week. (Reuters) International reactions to the Israel–Hamas war Colombia–Israel relations Colombia requests the departure of the Israeli ambassador following Colombian President Gustavo Petro's remarks criticizing Israel's actions. In response, Israel suspends security exports to Colombia. (AFP via RFI) Israel–Pakistan relations Pakistani Foreign Minister Jalil Abbas Jilani condemns the Israeli bombing on Gaza, equating the actions with genocide. (Al Jazeera) Israel–United States relations US Secretary of State Antony Blinken visits Israel and reaffirms American support for Israel. (BBC News) Arab League Secretary-General Ahmed Aboul Gheit calls for an immediate end to military operations in Gaza and for aid to be allowed into the enclave. (Times of Israel) The China International Development Cooperation Agency announces that they will provide emergency humanitarian aid to the UN Palestine agency and the Palestinian Authority. (Reuters via The Standard) Around 25,000 people demonstrate in Cotabato, Philippines, to express solidarity with Palestinians and to condemn Israel's air raids on the Gaza Strip. (AFP via The Straits Times) Japan–Russia relations Russia suspends imports of Japanese seafood due to concerns over wastewater discharges from the Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Plant. (AFP via The Jordan Times) Law and crime Anti-corruption campaign under Xi Jinping Former Bank of China chair Liu Lian'ge is arrested on allegations of corruption. (AFP via The Manila Times) Israel–Hamas war protests Around 49 anti-war protesters calling for U.S. President Joe Biden to press for a ceasefire are arrested outside the White House by U.S. Secret Service members. (Axios) Australia's internet safety commissioner fines American technology company X Corp. for AU$610,500 (US$385,000) for inadequately addressing child sexual abuse content on Twitter. (AFP via The Manila Times) Politics and elections 2024 Indonesian presidential election The Constitutional Court of Indonesia rules that regional leaders under the age of 40 can run for president or vice president, thus allowing President Joko Widodo's son Gibran Rakabuming Raka to run as a Vice Presidential candidate in the next presidential election. (The Jakarta Post) Sports 2026 Winter Olympics The Italian Olympic Committee announces that bobsleigh, luge, and skeleton events will not be held in Italy due to the high costs of rebuilding the Eugenio Monti Olympic Track in Cortina d'Ampezzo. (BBC News) 2028 Summer Olympics The International Olympic Committee approves the inclusion of cricket, flag football, lacrosse, squash, and baseball/softball at the 2028 Summer Olympics in Los Angeles. (Sky Sports)

---

(Posted) RD: Carmen Petra Basacopol

Article: Carmen Petra Basacopol (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Radio Romania
Credits:

• Updated and nominated by Gerda Arendt (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Dahn (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Romanian woman composer, with a PhD from the Sorbonne, and having taught in Rabat also. If she had been a man from the U.S. I would have dropped the topic as too late, but she is a minority and deserves being mentioned, I believe. News of her death came around on 16 October, but I only noticed the following day, and had no time to look closer until now, sorry. I had no time to translate the Romanian obits, yet, and now comes RL. Help? Dahn perhaps? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:37, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

• Thank you, Dahn, I added you as updater. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:43, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
• We added detail and references, please check. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:07, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
• Comment: Discography/works mostly unreferenced (the 4 I spot checked were not under the overarching reference). Spencer^T•C 15:13, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

  All work are referenced on top of the section, just above the table. (A few works have additional information, and then also additional ref.) - Will check for the recordings. I thought that these numbers - like ISBN - are an indication they exist. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:49, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

  I reworked the recordings. I used one ref that I'd not normally use because it has a precise year (1983) where the other ref for the same recording has only "1980s". --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:23, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

• Posted Stephen 20:47, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Geri M. Joseph

Article: Geri M. Joseph (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://www.hhh.umn.edu/news/remembering-geri-joseph-trailblazing-leader-and-humphrey-school-fellow
Credits:

• Updated by Star Garnet (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American journalist, Ambassador to the Netherlands, 1978 - 1981. 65.94.213.53 (talk) 20:00, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

• Posted Stephen 03:41, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Hatto Beyerle

Article: Hatto Beyerle (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Strad
Credits:

• Updated and nominated by Gerda Arendt (talk · give credit)
• Created by LouisAlain (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Violist, founding member of Alban Berg Quartet, academic teacher in Vienna, Hanover and Basel. Article was basically there, but without reference. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:43, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

• Posted Stephen 03:37, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Roland Griffiths

Article: Roland Griffiths (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NYT
Credits:

• Updated and nominated by Muboshgu (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Sunshineisles2 (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 – Muboshgu (talk) 18:19, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

• Support Article is a bit short but it's sufficient for RD. Scientia potentia est, MonarchOfTerror 19:50, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
• Posted. --PFHLai (talk) 07:59, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

(Posted as RD) RD/blurb: Martti Ahtisaari

Article: Martti Ahtisaari (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb:  Former President of Finland and Nobel Peace Prize laureate Martti Ahtisaari (pictured) dies at the age of 86. (Post)
News source(s): Le Monde, Presidential Twitter
Credits:

• Nominated by 4iamking (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Alsoriano97 (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: President of Finland 1994-2000, 2008 Nobel Peace Prize laureate. ✨  4 🧚‍♂am KING  08:26, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

• Blurb Head of state and Nobel laureate who seems comparable with Jimmy Carter. As an Elder, he seems to meet Mandela standard. Andrew🐉(talk) 09:12, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
• Not ready There are some paragraphs with no references. The article also lacks citations for most of the awards and honours. 98.170.164.88 (talk) 09:57, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose blurb I don't believe in the legitimacy of a Nobel Peace Prize awarded to someone who once said "Belgrade will be just like this tabletop. We'll start the bombing of Belgrade immediately.", so it's definitely not a factor of notability in this case. Apart from it, he was just a mediocre Finnish president, not comparable in any way to Urho Kekkonen.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 11:52, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
  • The authenticity of that quote seems debatable. Be that as it may, the person on the other side of the table was Slobodan Milošević and ITN blurbed his death. Andrew🐉(talk) 12:59, 16 October 2023 (UTC) (edit conflict)
    • Milošević on the other side of the table is not a justification for a threat involving destruction. That’s not the language one should expect from a Nobel Peace Prize laureate.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 13:39, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
• Support RD pending improvements as noted by IP. Neutral on blurb. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 12:57, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose blurb even after looking at WP:ITNRDBLURB and judging based on those guidelines, this is still not a notable enough death in my opinion. JM2023 (talk) 14:44, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose on quality Article needs some sourcing. Support blurb Article in good shape, he's a Nobel laureate and former head of state. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 15:35, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose blurb after BangJan1999 hatted my previous vote and the ensuing discussion. The reasons are as follows. Firstly, his death has close-to-no coverage in the English-language media (for instance, the BBC has not even published a news article that he died by the time of writing this post). It seems like his death isn’t even a major news in Finland, judging by the English-language content published by the Finnish media. Secondly, he was just a mediocre Finnish president, who cannot be compared in virtually any way to his predecessors Paasikivi and Kekkonen. Thirdly, the Nobel Peace Prize like the Nobel Prize in Literature is too controversial and politicised to be considered a notable achievement that qualifies someone for a blurb (almost a half of Nobel Peace Prize is about criticism of the award).--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 16:32, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

• I heard a BBC bulletin about this myself on the Six O'Clock News today. And it's easy to find coverage in other major media including Guardian, NYT, Al Jazeera, Helsinki Times and many more. All such coverage seems quite respectful and so KS's repeated objections seem to be false or fringe. Andrew🐉(talk) 22:36, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

• I think "false" and "fringe" are strong words for something that you don't agree with. What you're referring to is a minor coverage that prevents us from going beyond a one-sentence update on his death. Just for comparison, the deaths of Italy's Berlusconi and Napolitano, which got a blurb earlier this year, are documented in stand-alone articles (see Death and state funeral of Silvio Berlusconi and Death and state funeral of Giorgio Napolitano), and the Italian government even declared a national day of mourning for each of them. That's clearly not the case with Ahtisaari.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 11:25, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

false and fringe

Must we remind you again that ITN’s procedures, voting, etc are governed by consensus and reason, rather than what Andrew Davidson feels they should be? Shame on you, yet again. The Kip 14:27, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose on quality due to uncited material. Weak oppose blurb due to some of the concerns expressed by Kiril above. The Kip 16:50, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
• This has, at best, a single-sentence update that wouldn't be redundant to the blurb: the 2021 Alzheimer's/retirement announcement. Without an announcement of the cause of death (at least not that I've found in English sources; I haven't attempted machine translation from Finnish ones), its relevance is debatable - I mean, we can guess that he died of complications of Alzheimer's, and our article as it stands implies it, but we don't know that. And we really can't post a blurb saying "Ahtisaari died at 86", linking to an article that doesn't say anything more about it than "On 16 October 2023, it was announced that Ahtisaari had died at the age of 86." Oppose blurb, insufficient update. —Cryptic 17:11, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

Support blurb. Nobel prize winner, former head of state. We blurbed Gorbachev and Jiang Zemin. Kirill C1 (talk) 20:12, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

support blurb very notable figure in modern european political history and also (former) head of state. One may add the former head of state of the newest nato state and a busybody around said affairs leading up to it. (not being a tinfoil hat)37.252.95.226 (talk) 08:20, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

• Support RD, oppose blurb - the death was not notable enough, per my interpretation of WP:ITNRDBLURB, and some of Kiril's argument above ✈ mike_gigs ^talk_contribs 14:05, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

  I still don't think it's ready to be posted on RD. For example, there are only three inline references in the long section on "Youth and early career", and the last paragraph in that section is completely uncited. 98.170.164.88 (talk) 22:23, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose blurb - I haven't seen any news of his death on my diversified newsfeed or even ever heard of him except here. Pirate of the High Seas (talk) 02:39, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
• Support blurb on principle, weak oppose on quality we've been blurbing a lot of heads of state deaths as of late, and we've probably blurbed too many, but this is the wrong place to start. How many heads of state have won a Nobel Peace Prize? That demonstrates the regional and international impact we look for when blurbing heads of state of minor nations. As such, I see this as a clear and obvious blurb. However, there's a few paragraphs that are uncited. I don't see that as a huge barrier because it's the least important stuff in the article that are uncited, but that should probably be taken care of before posting. NorthernFalcon (talk) 07:08, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

  Support on quality Article quality improved; good work. NorthernFalcon (talk) 21:41, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose blurb - Not notable enough IMO. Relatively little coverage. Nigej (talk) 19:02, 19 October 2023 (UTC)
• COMMENT I've been working on Ahtisaari's article and I think it's ready to be posted at least in RD, as there is no clear consensus for a blurb. Please take a look at it, on quality issues: @NorthernFalcon: @Pirate of the High Seas: @Кирилл С1: @The Kip: @Кирилл С1: @Cryptic: @TDKR Chicago 101: @Presidentman: @Kiril Simeonovski: @Nigej:. _-_Alsor (talk) 21:26, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

  References look much better. I think this is ready to go. Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 21:33, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

• Posted Stephen 22:03, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
• Support blurb Nobel Peace Prize-winning head of state. I'm positive we'll blurb Carter, we blurbed Mandela, de Klerk, Shimon Peres, Gorbechev and Tutu. Article also looks good so quality shouldn't be an issue. --2601:249:8E00:420:E491:206B:5172:51D8 (talk) 23:22, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

(Closed) Ongoing : 2023 Sudan War (Timeline)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Article: War in Sudan (2023) (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item nomination (Post)
News source(s): [11]
Credits:

• Nominated by Lukt64 (talk · give credit)

Nominator's comments: It got removed yesterday [12], and even though it had been updated often it still got removed. I would recommend adding the Timeline to it like the Russian invasion of Ukraine. There was also a wide consensus AGAINST removing it.

Strong Oppose - Ongoing is for items that continuously generate news-worthy blurbs. The War in Sudan has been getting very little media coverage, barely any more than multiple other African civil wars. Ongoing isn't an armed conflict ticker. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 14:05, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose per PW. Yhe conflict may be ongoing, but the impact is not covered in any great coverage in the media. --Masem (t) 14:37, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

Oppose and Snowclose per user:Stephen down in the removal discussion: Removed only minor updates have been made to the article since this was nominated for removal a week ago. He then told you specifically when you demanded it be reinstated: You may want to read WP:ONGOING before you make your demands. JM2023 (talk) 14:40, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose and SNOW close I weakly supported keeping it, but consensus + guidelines dictated its removal and that’s not gonna suddenly change in a day. Sour grapes don’t constitute a valid reason for reinstatement. The Kip 16:10, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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