*This is a perfect example of [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:In_the_news&diff=prev&oldid=1168427185 the complaint] that was made on [[WT:ITN]] which is that there's a great deal of chaos caused when someone requests a [[WP:DEATHBLURB|death blurb]] for an individual who has no right getting one. It completely drowns out the actual, legitimate discussion about whether the individual is ''ready'' quality-wise to be posted on [[WP:ITNRD]]. Either requests for blurbs need to be far more considered, or such a discussion needs to be broken up into two parts - one for quality and one for notability. Cheerio, '''[[User:WaltCip|⛵ <span style="color: white; font-family: Verdana; font-weight: bold; background: linear-gradient(white, blue, navy, black)">WaltClipper</span> ]]'''-''<small>([[User talk:WaltCip|talk]])</small>'' 18:48, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
*This is a perfect example of [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:In_the_news&diff=prev&oldid=1168427185 the complaint] that was made on [[WT:ITN]] which is that there's a great deal of chaos caused when someone requests a [[WP:DEATHBLURB|death blurb]] for an individual who has no right getting one. It completely drowns out the actual, legitimate discussion about whether the individual is ''ready'' quality-wise to be posted on [[WP:ITNRD]]. Either requests for blurbs need to be far more considered, or such a discussion needs to be broken up into two parts - one for quality and one for notability. Cheerio, '''[[User:WaltCip|⛵ <span style="color: white; font-family: Verdana; font-weight: bold; background: linear-gradient(white, blue, navy, black)">WaltClipper</span> ]]'''-''<small>([[User talk:WaltCip|talk]])</small>'' 18:48, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
*'''Support blurb''' if/when quality issues are out of the way. Friedkin didn't make many movies but he's definitely far better known than most ITN deaths. <span style="font-family:Garamond,Palatino,serif;font-size:115%;background:-webkit-linear-gradient(red,red,red,blue,blue,blue,blue);-webkit-background-clip:text;-webkit-text-fill-color:transparent">[[User:Daß Wölf|Daß]] [[User talk:Daß Wölf|Wölf]]</span> 22:05, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
*'''Support blurb''' if/when quality issues are out of the way. Friedkin didn't make many movies but he's definitely far better known than most ITN deaths. <span style="font-family:Garamond,Palatino,serif;font-size:115%;background:-webkit-linear-gradient(red,red,red,blue,blue,blue,blue);-webkit-background-clip:text;-webkit-text-fill-color:transparent">[[User:Daß Wölf|Daß]] [[User talk:Daß Wölf|Wölf]]</span> 22:05, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
*:To expound, consider how many editors have weighed in on Friedkin's death, and how few comments there are on other RD sections. Were the other RDs of this day Tarkovskys of their field as well? Turnout would suggest no. <span style="font-family:Garamond,Palatino,serif;font-size:115%;background:-webkit-linear-gradient(red,red,red,blue,blue,blue,blue);-webkit-background-clip:text;-webkit-text-fill-color:transparent">[[User:Daß Wölf|Daß]] [[User talk:Daß Wölf|Wölf]]</span> 22:14, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
====(Closed, re-nominate on 8/22) New Prime Minister in Cambodia ====
====(Closed, re-nominate on 8/22) New Prime Minister in Cambodia ====
This candidates page is integrated with the daily pages of Portal:Current events. A light green header appears under each daily section - it includes transcluded Portal:Current events items for that day. You can discuss ITN candidates under the header.
Blurbs are one-sentence summaries of the news story.
Altblurbs, labelled alt1, alt2, etc., are alternative suggestions to cover the same story.
A target article, bolded in text, is the focus of the story. Each blurb must have at least one such article, but you may also link non-target articles.
Articles in the Ongoing line describe events getting continuous coverage.
The Recent deaths (RD) line includes any living thing whose death was recently announced. Consensus may decide to create a blurb for a recent death.
All articles linked in the ITN template must pass our standards of review. They should be up-to-date, demonstrate relevance via good sourcing and have at least an acceptable quality.
Nomination steps
Make sure the item you want to nominate has an article that meets our minimum requirements and contains reliable coverage of a current event you want to create a blurb about. We will not post about events described in an article that fails our quality standards.
Find the correct section below for the date of the event (not the date nominated). Do not add sections for new dates manually - a bot does that for us each day at midnight (UTC).
Create a level 4 header with the article name (==== Your article here ====). Add (RD) or (Ongoing) if appropriate.
Then paste the {{ITN candidate}} template with its parameters and fill them in. The news source should be reliable, support your nomination and be in the article. Write your blurb in simple present tense. Below the template, briefly explain why we should post that event. After that, save your edit. Your nomination is ready!
You may add {{ITN note}} to the target article's talk page to let editors know about your nomination.
The better your article's quality, the better it covers the event and the wider its perceived significance (see WP:ITNSIGNIF for details), the better your chances of getting the blurb posted.
When the article is ready, updated and there is consensus to post, you can mark the item as (Ready). Remove that wording if you feel the article fails any of these necessary criteria.
Admins should always separately verify whether these criteria are met before posting blurbs marked (Ready). For more guidance, check WP:ITN/A.
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Where there is no consensus, or the article's quality remains poor, change the header to (Closed) or (Not posted).
Sometimes, editors ask to retract an already-posted nomination because of a fundamental error or because consensus changed. If you feel the community supports this, remove the item and mark the item as (Pulled).
Voicing an opinion on an item
Format your comment to contain "support" or "oppose", and include a rationale for your choice. In particular, address the notability of the event, the quality of the article, and whether it has been updated.
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Review an item even if it has already been reviewed by another user. You may be the first to spot a problem, or the first to confirm that an identified problem was fixed. Piling on the list of "support!" votes will help administrators see what is ready to be posted on the Main Page.
Tell about problems in articles if you see them. Be bold and fix them yourself if you know how, or tell others if it's not possible.
Add simple "support!" or "oppose!" votes without including your reasons. Similarly, curt replies such as "who?", "meh", or "duh!" are not helpful. A vote without reasoning means little for us, please elaborate yourself.
Oppose an item just because the event is only relating to a single country, or failing to relate to one. We post a lot of such content, so these comments are generally unproductive.
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Comment on a story without first reading the relevant article(s).
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Article updated and well sourced --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 22:07, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: The Band guitarist and songwriter --Vacant0 (talk) 20:31, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Unsourced filmography, a few cn tags here and there as well as generally some unsourced info. Needs ref work. Scientia potentia est, MonarchOfTerror 20:59, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment—At the risk of getting flamed by some of the regulars here, I think there is a genuine case to be made that Robbie Robertson was a highly transformative figure in popular music. The Band's first two albums, Music from Big Pink and The Brown Album, are widely considered to be among the most influential LPs of their time. Robertson wrote nearly all of their most famous songs: "The Weight", "Up on Cripple Creek", "The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down", "The Shape I'm In", "Chest Fever", etc. After the dissolution of The Band, he went on to produce the soundtracks for many Scorcese movies, such as Raging Bull, Casino, and The Departed. If not a full-blown blurb, I wonder if he would merit a picture on the main page, just like we did with Little Richard. Thoughts? Kurtis(talk) 21:51, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Article:2023 Hawaii wildfires (talk·history·tag) Blurb: Parts of Maui island in Hawaii, United States are evacuated as wildfires knock out power and 9-1-1 services in western Maui and other parts of Hawaii including Oahu and the Big Island. (Post) News source(s):BBCThe Washington Post Credits:
Nominator's comments: This could be a catastrophic wildfire especially since 911 got cut off. Interstellarity (talk) 19:39, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Wait - But will probably be significant. It's ongoing, and the damage and casualties are still being assessed. Early reports are suggesting that much of Lahaina has been destroyed. TarkusABtalk/contrib 20:26, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I’m not opposed to posting this, but I have a question. 9-1-1 is used in the US and a few other countries, but other countries use different numbers for emergency services. Would people outside these countries understand the reference? (I am from the U.S., so I don’t know) Potentially, we could link to the 9-1-1 article or reference emergency services. -TenorTwelve (talk) 21:16, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The blurb probably needs to be rewritten, something else would be described instead. - Indefensible (talk) 21:19, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Wait until it develops into something significant (which, unfortunately, seems likely). I also think the blurb should be rewritten—specifically, the "Big Island" is itself known as "the island of Hawai'i". Kurtis(talk) 21:26, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Not sure about that wording, given the state and the island in question have the same name. I'm not sure about this perspective internationally, but I'd believe at least within the US that most would more understand it if "the Big Island" were mentioned. DarkSide830 (talk) 22:03, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose As you can easily see, these are not the only active forest fires in the world. And it is neither the most relevant nor the most worrying, as failures in the electricity supply are neither the most serious nor the most exceptional thing that can happen. And I don't know what to wait for, if it doesn't seem that things could become tragic (seeing which fires have been posted in PM because they were notorious). _-_Alsor (talk) 21:44, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Oppose there is a more citations needed heading in one of the sections, and the article needs more citations in general. ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 17:08, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Musician who had No.1 hit with Cha Cha Slide. Abcmaxx (talk) 11:57, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support I think this one's good to go. – filelakeshoe (t / c) 🐱 12:29, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose There are some sourcing issues in the Career section, so no, this is not good to go. Cheers, atque supra! Fakescientist8000 16:05, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Article needs some major ref work. Career section could be expanded too. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 16:12, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Weak oppose Sufficient in length and depth, but there are 3 cn tags that need addressing.Support Looks sufficient in sourcing now as well. Scientia potentia est, MonarchOfTerror 10:42, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Conditional Support- I addressed two of the CN tags. If someone can correct the third of them, I believe this will be ready to post. Edit: Looks good to me! SunsetShotguns (talk) 11:49, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Article needs some ref work. There's also a source that's used that could be replaced with a better source. Also the sources listed on death section are bare links. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 17:34, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I nominated the original on the night it happened, I have changed the nomination to ongoing. Abcmaxx (talk) 11:59, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment since the coup is done, I think a better article to have in ongoing is 2023 Nigerien crisis, which discusses the aftermath. – filelakeshoe (t / c) 🐱 12:25, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support2023 Nigerien crisis, but without any restrictions on also posting a story if a sufficiently significant event occurs, like ECOWAS launching an invasion. BilledMammal (talk) 12:27, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support Article already ran as a blurb, and is still receiving updates on a regular basis. That's a perfect article for ongoing. --Jayron32 16:30, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support Per above, also think either "2023 Nigerian Crisis" or "2023 Nigerian Political Crisis" would be best. either way, this would seem worthy of Ongoing due to it previously being a blurb and still receiving updates. Editor 5426387 (talk) 19:20, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for telling me, I will look out for it in the future. Editor 5426387 (talk) 21:52, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It's not a matter of grammar; "Nigerien" and "Nigerian" refer to two different countries. But you're welcome. Kurtis(talk) 23:57, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support—A major event that's unfolding by the day. I also agree that linking 2023 Nigerien crisis would be better than the coup itself, as it more fully encompasses the entire situation. Kurtis(talk) 20:38, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
(Closed) New National Monument around Grand Canyon
Consensus to post is unlikely to develop. Consider nominating this for DYK.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 16:31, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Oppose per Alsoriano97. Looks like political theater with very limited impact beyond prevention of mining in a small area. Monuments and wildlife preserves are created with great regularity all over the world. I can't remember posting them at ITN. -Ad Orientem (talk) 18:35, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose It doesn't look like it will have a lasting impact or receive sustained in-depth coverage. Stuff like this happens often and it's just internal politics, it doesn't seem notable. Scientia potentia est, MonarchOfTerror 21:04, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Weak concur 900,000 acres is a lot of protected land and an exceptionally large monument; I'm glad to hear of its status update. But the cultural, economic and environmental significance seems mired in the no-go topic. As pitched and currently written, anyway, alt's not bad and articles can change. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:08, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose as its a type of "under the fold" story - it has some importance, but its not as significance in the news, but strongly urge this to be presented at DYK. Perfect candidate for it. --Masem (t) 01:26, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
In Sweden, roads are flooded and a train carrying 120 passengers derails in Hudiksvall Municipality, while waves of up to eight meters (26 feet) are reported in Denmark, and several people being evacuated in Norway. In Lithuania and Latvia, two people are killed by falling trees, leaving 40,000 customers without electricity in Kurzeme and Zemgale. (AP)
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Indian business executive. Ktin (talk) 19:53, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Not Ready there are at least 2 uncited statements within the article. Will change my support if they get proper citations. ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 03:58, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Storm Hans
Article:Storm Hans (talk·history·tag) Blurb: Storm Hans causes heavy flooding in Northern Europe causing two deaths. (Post) News source(s):AP, Mirror Credits:
Nominator's comments: Know that the article is non existent, it's causing widespread flooding in Norway and Sweden, this hasn't happened in years. Koltinn(talk) 16:25, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose on Quality The section is two sentences long. ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 17:43, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Run of the mill storm. Not on a level of significance we typically expect for weather related events at ITN. The storm apparently is not sufficiently notable for its own article. -Ad Orientem (talk) 17:53, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
oppose on notability. Not a high number of fatalities. _-_Alsor (talk) 18:21, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose The 2 sentence update (not including infobox) is very thin and the casualties are low. Doesn't seem notable enough, especially since it doesn't have its own article. Scientia potentia est, MonarchOfTerror 21:01, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
If someone expanded the article, it would be better.
Can see if I can do it tomorrow though translation has to happen. There's evacuations, floods, closed roads, closed railway lines and landslides in some areas it's maybe worst in 25 years but since the storm is ongoing. Koltinn(talk) 21:38, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Storm lacks its own article and seems fairly run of the mill otherwise. The Kip (talk) 16:54, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Should've nominated that July one with 135 mph gusts and some of the largest hail ever seen (largest in Europe) Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 17:31, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment 50-100 year floods in some places in Norway.
Dunno if the nomination should be retracted, more articles about it pop up on international news.
Most of Hans's damage is due to floodings not windspeed though. Koltinn(talk) 20:50, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. From the perspective of a weather-interested person, I see the intrigue, but as noted above, the article is not nearly updated enough and the impact does not yet rise to the level of storms typically posted to ITN. DarkSide830 (talk) 22:05, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Oppose One cn tag in early life, many cn tags in the career section, the filmography is uncited and awards section is uncited. Needs significant ref work. Scientia potentia est, MonarchOfTerror 18:13, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Article needs ref work sadly. Once it's fixed, I can behind a blurb. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 19:49, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb Academy Award Winner, influential director. Director of two of the most famous films of 20th century. In this article is mentioned, how he influenced Spielberg, Fincher, among others. [5]Kirill C1 (talk) 21:20, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Кирилл С1: I could get behind this, but the article needs some massive ref work before debating a blurb. TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 21:40, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
He Was 87 Heart failure/pneumonia, lived/died in LA. There will be no autopsy, maybe a public funeral. Meanwhile, we feature 80 dead who got the Pakistani counterterrorism squad involved and 30 more spurring a who's-who of investigative bodies; "not a good look" to put this one former American and his photo before them. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:42, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Famous people's deaths carry more weight. That's how the news works. By your logic, the entirety of Wikipedia's news feed should be dedicated exclusively to civilian casualties. I'd actually be fine with that if you weren't using those people's corpses to minimize the significance of William Friedkin's career. TheClubSilencio (talk) 00:54, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
To some people, they do. To others, like me, consequence is heavier. I have no problem blurbing celebrities whose deaths lead to revelations (even unshocking ones) in the coming days. Then, linking for a week or so makes sense, some crave updates. When all we're ever going to know is "Recognizable Name Dies", RD's perfect. It has nothing to do with Friedkin's career. I liked a few of those movies and it was good to learn today they had him in common. But they still exist, same as yesterday. It's more obituary than top story, fleeting news. InedibleHulk (talk) 03:15, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose blurb Simply being well known, notable for a few major films, or winning awards is not sufficient to show has important/significant/transformative a figure he was. Influencing a handful of other directors is a start towards that but nowhere near sufficient. Oppose RD on poor sourcing quality. Masem (t) 21:51, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose RD on quality as article still has numerous CN tags. Oppose blurb, because really? The Kip (talk) 22:01, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose RD on quality; Oppose blurb per Masem... also the standard of OMD applies in this case. NoahTalk 22:07, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Or even the horror genre like Ivan Reitman (it was still scary after The Exorcist). InedibleHulk (talk) 23:04, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Ivan Reitman didn't do horror films and also wasn't blurbed. Kirill C1 (talk) 07:11, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
He did Ghostbusters and Ghostbusters II, thereby helping the mainstream accept hauntings, monsters and possessions as goofy fun. And I know he wasn't blurbed, that's the point. Someone who didn't do much with the genres he touched besides add to their lists of good examples is less transformative. InedibleHulk (talk) 19:26, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose blurb While The French Connection and The Exorcist are notable films from 50 years ago, Friedkin is hardly a household name. For one possible more-or-less objective notability test, a search for his name on the J-Archive (online repository of half a million Jeopardy! clues) returns only one result: a $2000 clue (hardest level) in a game played ten years ago (27 May 2013). It was a triple stumper (none of the three contestants attempted a response).Ryan Reeder (talk) 07:45, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Being a household name is not criterion here, what matters is being transformative in the field. Kirill C1 (talk) 08:21, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I can't think of a better summing-up of ITN's US-centrism issue than a suggestion that we take Jeopardy! clues into account when evaluating if a person should be blurbed. Humbledaisy (talk) 21:13, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Not Ready for RD per pretty much everybody above. Oppose blurb per pretty much everybody above. -Ad Orientem (talk) 17:56, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose blurb - We already get a fair amount of pushback for favoring people in the U.S. entertainment industry when it comes to death blurbs, but if it's one that most people haven't even heard of outside of movie buffs and aficionados, then it's going to be very difficult to get anyone to drink from that cup. Cheerio, ⛵ WaltClipper-(talk) 00:44, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Consensus to blurb will not develop. Focus from here whether the article meets RD quality. BangJan1999 01:27, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose blurb Recent Deaths was created for situations like this. Someone sufficiently notable to have a Wikipedia article, but not a leader in their field. Just because someone is well-known, and/or American, doesn't mean their article is worthy of a blurb upon their death. Chrisclear (talk) 02:14, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Strong oppose blurb - Blurbing Recent Deaths is not meant to be an award for notable individuals, it is only if their death has significant impact stretching beyond the event of their passing (see Elizabeth II) PrecariousWorlds (talk) 08:31, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Picture ITN has run the same used-car advert (right) for over a week now and so it's looking quite stale (as usual). Friedkin is not at the same level of fame as Pee-wee Herman or Sinéad O'Connor but is still attracting far more readers than all ITN's blurbs combined. Andrew🐉(talk) 09:06, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
We won't do pictures for RDs. Cheerio, ⛵ WaltClipper-(talk) 18:27, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This is a perfect example of the complaint that was made on WT:ITN which is that there's a great deal of chaos caused when someone requests a death blurb for an individual who has no right getting one. It completely drowns out the actual, legitimate discussion about whether the individual is ready quality-wise to be posted on WP:ITNRD. Either requests for blurbs need to be far more considered, or such a discussion needs to be broken up into two parts - one for quality and one for notability. Cheerio, ⛵ WaltClipper-(talk) 18:48, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb if/when quality issues are out of the way. Friedkin didn't make many movies but he's definitely far better known than most ITN deaths. DaßWölf 22:05, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
To expound, consider how many editors have weighed in on Friedkin's death, and how few comments there are on other RD sections. Were the other RDs of this day Tarkovskys of their field as well? Turnout would suggest no. DaßWölf 22:14, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
(Closed, re-nominate on 8/22) New Prime Minister in Cambodia
Consensus to wait until August 22, when he formally takes office. Will re-nominate once it occurs, as it’ll be a few days after after this nom rolls off. The Kip (talk) 16:53, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Article updated The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Nominator's comments: End of an era in Cambodia (at least in terms of leadership). Hun Manet's article is not in bad condition. Short but, IMO, ready. I also don't think we have to wait until August 22, which is when he takes office. Or should we? According to the news, the Cambodian King has signed the decree of appointment and it only needs to be ratified by the National Assembly, where there is a majority of the ruling party, so it would be a mere formality free of surprises. _-_Alsor (talk) 17:44, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, wait until August 22 when he takes office. Things could still change before then. - Indefensible (talk) 17:51, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Wait until he takes office, but support notability. Proposed differently-worded alt. The Kip (talk) 17:56, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support once he actually takes office. Hun Sen has ruled Cambodia for nearly 40 years, so the country getting a new leader (even if it is effectively a dynastic succession) is major news. Kurtis(talk) 18:51, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support alt blurb I think mentioning his father's near four decade rule coming to an end is worth mentioning. Target article looks good too. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 21:41, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Wait He has not taken office yet. Once he does, it is a support from me. TomMasterRealTALK 01:37, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Wait but definite support once he actually takes office; the article looks good. – filelakeshoe (t / c) 🐱 12:27, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Article updated The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Not Ready for the usual reason. Referencing is not dreadful. But you have two substantially unsourced sections. -Ad Orientem (talk) 18:04, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per Ad Orientem. Also shouldn't the all the blurbs be prefaced with "In Netball"? If we use the main blurb as an example it should be like: "In Netball, the Netball World Cup concludes with Australia defeating England in the final"? That's how most other sports blurbs (including the current blurb on the ashes series) are written in ITN. Scientia potentia est, MonarchOfTerror 20:55, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
When talking about any old World Cup, World Series or NBA Championship, it (arguably) helps those least familiar with sports in general. But this is the Netball World Cup. I don't know what netball is, but that's clearly what this award is for and I know there's going to be a link to the sport in the target article, if I want to learn more. Anyway, not ready, we'll see if IAR applies if it is. And that should probably be lowercase when it doesn't. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:03, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Weak support Article is alright, I think it could be expanded a little but it’s fine otherwise. I'm a bit uncertain on the filmography since it isn't sourced individually by each work, but WP:AGF exists so I'll just assume all the works in the filmography are in the two sources at the bottom. Scientia potentia est, MonarchOfTerror 19:54, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment They aren't (and I'm unconvinced that the latter is reliable). Black Kite (talk) 20:38, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support I see what MonarchOfTerror is saying, but I think the article is okay for RD. ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 04:35, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support - article has been expanded beyond a stub. - Indefensible (talk) 19:33, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support because the death toll makes it important enough & the article is good enough. Jim 2 Michael (talk) 19:45, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support Notable enough due to the casualties/injuries and coverage. Article is good enough despite the 1 cn tag. Scientia potentia est, MonarchOfTerror 19:47, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment The article is reaaaally short, considering that the bits that are trying to give it length (part of the BG and the Reactions) are rather trivial or unnecessary. --Masem (t) 22:53, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Posted ALT2 after a wee tweak. Short, but good enough. Schwede66 07:07, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Isn't there only 1 Hazara Express train? 🌶️Jalapeño🌶️ Don't click this link! 10:31, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
No, Jalapeño. Probably three trains (and 3 is the minimum) to run this as a daily service. I’ve explained on the article's talk page how you work that out. Schwede66 16:47, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't know that. It says on the page "Hazara Express is a passenger train". That made me think it was just one. 🌶️Jalapeño🌶️ Don't click this link! 18:55, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Jalapeño, in the distant past, I studied public transport system. That's how I know that; I suppose that puts me at an advantage. Schwede66 20:51, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I understand how, I'm sorry for the misunderstanding. 🌶️Jalapeño🌶️ Don't click this link! 20:56, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Post-posting oppose - A high death toll does not automatically translate to notability. Does not even feature once on the main pages of the BBC, CNN, Washington Post, DW, New York Times, Gulf News, and TNN. This is a horrible tragedy, but ITN isn't just a "high death toll disasters" ticker. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 09:33, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't check all media outlets you mention, but yesterday this was top news on the BBC for hours.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 11:51, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
If it has dropped off that much over such a small time frame then it doesn't have the significance to be posted. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 15:20, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Most stories that we post have never been top news on any media outlet.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 16:40, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Per WP:ITNATA, we specifically do not support/oppose based on placement (like appearing on front page or main pages) in a given work. Masem (t) 12:09, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
No, but for a section literally called 'In The News' it does indicate the significance and notability of a story. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 15:21, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
As Kiril said, this certainly was frontpage, even the main story on BBC. While not the main story, it was frontpage on CNN as well. Also in Arguments to avoid it says "Arguments addressing how many international newspapers/news channels are or are not covering the story on their front page or main webpage. A story highlighted in many newspapers or news channels has a good chance of being significant for ITN, but we do not base the posting primarily on how many such sites have covered it or consider it important (...)" Scientia potentia est, MonarchOfTerror 12:14, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Post-posting oppose. There's no indication that this is going to have any sort of lasting effect or that it's going to be covered in reliable sources years from now. This is not of encyclopedic significance. If we're posting this, we may as well post everything that has a BBC article. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 13:41, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Front-page top news is very different from ‘everything that has a BBC article’. Also, whether this would be covered in reliable sources years from now is a crystal-ball reasoning. We never use future expectations as a determinant of significance.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 16:48, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
So logically, if we're not allowed to predict future significance, then we shouldn't even have an article on this until after that significance is proven. Which, believe it or not, is exactly what is required by our notability guidelines. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 20:46, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
WP:GNG is a guideline, not a hard-and-fast rule, so it cannot require anything.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 22:24, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Post-posting oppose - As the others have said, what's the long-term significance of this item? What sort of impact does this have apart from being a tragedy or a disaster. Hard to see the news worthiness of this, particularly with the lack of depth of coverage. Cheerio, ⛵ WaltClipper-(talk) 21:02, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Post posting oppose Per all above. A premature posting for an item with little to no long term significance/coverage. Cheers, atque supra! Fakescientist8000 15:57, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Post-posting oppose/Pull This article feels considerably too short for the main page and has little demonstrated longer-term significance. Far too premature a posting. The Kip (talk) 16:31, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
PP Support It's kinda on the edge, but transportation related disasters with this many fatalities are posted more often than not. -Ad Orientem (talk) 18:07, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
In other words, WP:MINIMUMDEATHS? I'd hope that a bit more goes into the rationale for posting than that. Cheerio, ⛵ WaltClipper-(talk) 19:40, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
MINIMUMDEATHS is not the sole criteria for these kinds of events. But it is a factor. How common are these kinds of mass casualty transportation related accidents? If they are fairly commonplace that would be a factor against posting. -Ad Orientem (talk) 23:30, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Ad Orientem It sounds like you're making these "factors" up. !votes are expected to be based in Wikipedia policies and guidelines. If you want these to be valid factors, then go to Wikipedia:Village pump (policy) and raise the issue. Until then, they bear virtually zero weight in determining consensus. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 01:13, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Thebiguglyalien I think you are missing the point. This is not a discussion about the pages encyclopedic notability. It's about its suitability for ITN. And assuming article quality is up to scratch and there aren't any serious questions about WP:N, then the rest is largely subjective and you will find a broad range of opinions on some nominations. The so called MINIMUMDEATHS criteria is a popular bugaboo among some editors who get annoyed anytime casualties are discussed in a nomination. There is of course no such policy. But neither is there any policy or guideline which precludes the question of casualty figures being weighed by editors. Some do, some don't, and some get very upset with those of us who do give it any weight. Beyond that you will find some general consensus here and there regarding unofficial criteria based on experience and trends that sometimes go back years. For instance the bar for a death blurb has been getting slowly higher based on my ten plus years' experience around here. And generally a nomination that doesn't rate a stand alone article is stepping into the batter's box with two strikes against it. I've seen some get through. But not often. And so on. In the end, more than most other forums on the project, our criteria is highly subjective and what gets posted and what doesn't can often look terribly inconsistent. But as with almost all discussion on the pedia, CONSENSUS is the one determining criteria. And that is typically determined by those who show up. Best regards... -Ad Orientem (talk) 02:32, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Don't Pull There's a difference in the level of perceptible insult between suggesting the deaths of 30 people aren't worthy of commemorating like Mangeshkar's back here and putting them on the same level before (even unintentionally) signaling a "just kidding, yoink". InedibleHulk (talk) 19:55, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia is not a memorial, and whether people died is not a factor in determining whether something is encyclopedic. Anyone who has a problem with that is just going to have to come to peace with it. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 20:02, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That's some good wishful thinking, in my opinion, cheers! But it's "unfortunately" and demonstrably not true. They can also argue at length to post MINIMUMDEATH and DAVIDBOWIE stories for years, as they have and as they will. The article is still too short, the rate of Pakistani rail death is still unlikely to change and (in hindsight) 13 hours wasn't long enough to hear all these Opposes. But what's done is done, it's now up to us to eventually accept it. InedibleHulk (talk) 20:10, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Alternatively, ANI could hear about certain editors (not you) engaging in repeat violations of the WP:NOT policy after multiple warnings... Thebiguglyalien (talk) 21:10, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That has been me, in some similar enough situations, which resulted in a simmering of rage on my end and new disruption in others. Not true peace. That comes from serenity, and whether you "believe" it or not, the serenity prayer isn't exactly wrong. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:30, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This not about being e memorial. And the issue is not encyclopedic notability. Questions of that sort can be addressed at AfD. This is about whether the event is sufficiently unusual and has received an adequate level of coverage to be promoted on the main page. Subject to article quality of course. -Ad Orientem (talk) 23:34, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That first one was probably my fault, "commemorate" has three meanings and I meant the first two.InedibleHulk (talk) 00:13, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support posting - Come on, now, if this happened in a western democracy, we'd post it. Let's not show our bias and pull it. Posting it was the right idea. --RockstoneSend me a message! 21:51, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
What a cheap rhetorical trick. We have had no shortage of posting disasters from countries outside the U.S., in fact we've actually been criticized for doing so excessively at times. Cheerio, ⛵ WaltClipper-(talk) 00:40, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
If this was in a western nation, most of the same people would have voted support, and most of the same people would have voted oppose. The only real difference is that the implied accusations of racism would be against the support voters ("western-centric!" "there's no way we would have posted this if it was in the developing world!") instead of against the oppose voters. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 00:57, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It's plausible, it's also plausible the other way around. ITN is inherently biased in the way it functions but regionalism is a well-known factor (racism; wrong word in the wrong context fwiw). I understand where you're coming from, but it's not true for ITN, atleast from my experience. --qedk (t愛c) 12:20, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Post-posting support What Rockstone said. --qedk (t愛c) 21:57, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Knockoff tricks are rhetorically cheaper, historically speaking. I'm not saying Walt appraised the original correctly. But if he did...InedibleHulk (talk) 01:00, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I think people should take a deep breath here. Some of the comments are starting to take on an unpleasant edge. -Ad Orientem (talk) 02:38, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - No matter if you support pulling or not, I do think the decision to post this story was incredibly premature. Right now there are about 6 opposes to 7 supports yet it was put on the front page after only 13 hours without any consensus developing. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 08:17, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That is not how it works. ITN consensus works differently, since time is of the essence, discussions usually last for >24 hours mostly only when there isn't a consensus, so in the closing admin's POV, there was consensus at the time of posting, let's not use procedural strawmans. --qedk (t愛c) 12:11, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
For the record If a fellow admin finds that I posted this prematurely, or without there having been consensus at the time of posting, or this having lost support since posting, then I won't lose any sleep over that. Schwede66 09:49, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Indian poet and communist militant. Fahads1982 (talk) 11:21, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: French-Georgian political historian. Member of the European Parliament. 65.94.213.53 (talk) 21:28, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose for Now Her early life is uncited and the Russian scholarship section could use some more citations.Support all the uncited bits I mentioned look better now ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 22:06, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Uncited early life section, one cn tag in personal life and fully uncited/no ISBN bibliography. Needs work.Support Article looks alright now. Scientia potentia est, MonarchOfTerror 22:10, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: I'll look tomorrow if nobody beats me to it. I wish the IP would nominate only after substantial refs are there.--Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:15, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I looked, and found it much better. I wonder why the books of such a prominent author can't be sourced. They must be in all libraries, no? I added two German sources to the early sections, which can be used for more. I have no more time today, but hope someone else has. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:09, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The FAZ article would have more detail, but it would be difficult to add to a section that speaks about her father back in Georgia and disappearing in one sentence, followed by relatives and their position in life today. - What the ref ("Schmid") has: "Her family lost "all" in the October revolution. In France, her father had to make money, first as a cab driver. The family spoke Russian, she learned English at age four. They survived the war in Bordeaux where her father was a translator for the Germans; he was possibly murdered by members of the résistance. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:56, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
After having added these bits, I added myself to the updaters. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:59, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I added ill links to some works, and publishers. Someone with more time might add more bioliographic stuff from French, - isbn nos a minimum. Another question: the infobox has subdiscline modern history - which doesn't show. I have no idea if it is meant to mean what she studied or researched, also there should be a link, because the present redirect doesn't work anymore according to the talk page, and I looked it up and found it of little use anyway. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:33, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support While there's one cn tag, I don't think that should keep the article from posting. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 17:38, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support, knowing it can always get even better later. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:19, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support - article seems to meet requirements. - Indefensible (talk) 22:25, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support – Passes muster as is. But the w:fr article still has a lot of info (academic career, positions in various bureaucracies) that could be mined, translated, and brought over. Moscow Mule (talk) 23:17, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support on Notability, Oppose on Quality This is an event covered by multiple international news networks and a former world leader was arrested, not just indicted. However, I think the linked article needs more citations.❤HistoryTheorist❤ 03:47, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support on notability, but oppose on quality at the moment. If the article can improve its quality, this should be on ITN, as it is extremely important news that has made headlines globally. — Red-tailed hawk(nest) 02:19, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The quality has sufficiently improved that I now support this without reservation as to the quality. — Red-tailed hawk(nest) 20:36, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support on notability. See also this Guardian article about details of how he is now [7]. Kirill C1 (talk) 21:23, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Solely on article quality. -Ad Orientem (talk) 18:13, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
CommentImran Khan's article has a NPOV tag, but the other article is fine. Don't know whether this should prevent this from being posted, I suppose we could use the altblurb instead? I'm not really sure, so I'll defer to other editors to make the call. Scientia potentia est, MonarchOfTerror 20:35, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The alt blurb makes more sense; the thing that's in the news is the result of the case. — Red-tailed hawk(nest) 20:37, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Excellent work on the Toshakhana reference case article! I've struck all but the word "support" from my original !vote. I did notice the tag on the Imran Khan bio article, I'm also not sure what the best option is. It's hard to know what specific issue may exist when all we know is that someone thought it was NPOV in 2021. I haven't had the time to proofread the tagged section yet, but if it doesn't have any glaring issues, I say untag it as whoever tagged it probably should have done more to articulate what the issue was. As for which blurb to use, I agree that the bolded article we direct the attention to should be the case. Vanilla Wizard 💙 20:43, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Vanilla Wizard: I'm pretty sure the NPOV tag still applies and the article still has issues. I only had a very quick read through but a sentence like "Following the visit, Khan repeatedly refused to condemn Russia's violations of international laws and war crimes, framing the refusal as Pakistan being independent, not amoral, and arguing by whataboutism, falsely referring to lack of requests for condemnation by India." definitely seems like a NPOV violation. That's only the one that seemed obvious, there may be more that are less easy to see. Scientia potentia est, MonarchOfTerror 20:53, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Death was announced today. Died on the 3rd. Creator of vim, aka, the greatest text editor of all time. -- RockstoneSend me a message! 20:44, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Question Are those reliable sources? If not, even his article probably shouldn't call him dead, less the mainpage. If so, though, it's just a bit stubby. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:55, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The Google Group announcement is from his family. Hacker News currently has a black bar, suggesting that it's likely not a hoax. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 23:01, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not asking if it's probably true, just whether it's verifiable, as Wikipedia understands it. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:11, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The LWN reference should be sufficient. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 23:33, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Seems a bit dodgy to me, and certainly isn't a mainstream news outlet. But it is used in a few other other biographies here, so there's precedent, at least. I won't oppose this, but can't support. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:48, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed that LWN is a reliable source for this and free software related news in general. Legoktm (talk) 23:48, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I don't really understand the distinction you're trying to make. Bram is the creator and BDFL of one of the most popular free software tools, so the fact he died is a free software news topic, something LWN is a RS for. Legoktm (talk) 00:08, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I used the middle one for the update. If you think another one is more reliable or informative, go for it. But they're all closer to secondary coverage than the other day's announcements. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:19, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support RD. It appears reliable enough now but definitely post whenever that's clear. Skynxnex (talk) 23:49, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Unlikely to find a consensus to post. Anarchyte (talk) 14:22, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Article:Alexei Navalny (talk·history·tag) Blurb: Alexei Navalny is sentenced to an additional 19 years in prison on extremism charges. (Post) Alternative blurb: Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny's prison sentence is extended by 19 years on extremism charges. News source(s):BBC Credits:
Oppose - Not really a surprise. We don't post prison sentence extensions unless they have widespread significance, in this case this really will have no immediate impact. You could also make an argument this is being covered by ongoing.
As for the Russian wiki posting it, that doesn't really help notability. As I've pointed out to other editors, most Wikipedias associated with a certain area (in our case it's the Anglosphere) will naturally place an increased emphasis on news relating to that area, as sources surrounding the event will be most covered in the regional language. WP:DUEWEIGHT has more on this. So, it makes sense that the Russian Wikipedia would post a news story like this that mostly relates to Russia. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 18:04, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
it's clear.--СтасС (talk) 18:30, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose The event doesn't seem to have much significance since it's just an extension and it seems par for the course when it comes to Russian politics. I've fixed the formatting of the blurb and also added an altblurb in case consensus favors posting. Scientia potentia est, MonarchOfTerror 18:21, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for your help!--СтасС (talk) 18:30, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I believe we did not post the previous times that Navalny was incarcerated or had his sentence extended, and while I personally think we probably should have posted the initial incarceration, I'm not sure that this particular extension is quite as notable. However, if this leads to notable protests (such as the 2021 protests which were posted), then we can certainly reconsider this. I won't mark this comment as a !vote for or against it because I don't truly have strong feelings one way or another here (I guess you could consider this a Neutral/Mixed !vote?), but I appreciate the good faith nomination even if I am skeptical about its odds at reaching a consensus in favor of posting. Best wishes, Vanilla Wizard 💙 19:35, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Good faith, but just an extension of an already-in-place sentence. The Kip (talk) 19:15, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Encyclopedic information but falls under internal politics which generally is not posted except for elections, changes in government, etc. - Indefensible (talk) 19:43, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It's technically law, but yeah, law gets politicized. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:45, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Nominator's comments: Now here me out, okay? I think this fits no. 3 of WP:ITNPURPOSE: To point readers to subjects they might not have been looking for but nonetheless may interest them. Is this exactly the most newsworthy item out there? No, but I think it is an interesting story, and besides has made national and even international headlines (front page on CNN, NBC, NYT, Reuters, ABC, Sky News, Fox News, CBCHuffPost, NYP, etc.), its not exactly a "local" story. You can dismiss this as "celebrity news," but the NYPD raised their alert level to four, or the highest level, for this and it involved thousands of people and dozens of injuries and arrests (including Cenat himself); that's a lot more than your standard TMZ bullshit. There are two articles that need to be merged, though. — Knightoftheswords 05:20, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment To me, it seems that the two articles ought to be merged before anything else should happen. Schwede66 05:31, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Photo This may or may not be an appropriate blurb, but there's something fundamentally wrong with posting pictures of alleged criminals smiling. Try to find something free depicting the riot instead, or an injury, or a mugshot. Something indicating impact (barring that, just use words). InedibleHulk (talk) 05:51, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I had a feeling the photo would draw some ire. Would this photo of Union Square suffice instead? — Knightoftheswords 06:12, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not irate, I just find it incongruous. This square pic isn't smiling, but it doesn't seem affected by the recent event, either. It's just a photo of the past for photo's sake, methinks, no big deal. InedibleHulk (talk) 06:17, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Well, that seems to be the best, most recent full view of Union Square available on commons. Also, the photo of Cenat isn't of him smiling, it's a screenshot of him in a video while he's speaking. — Knightoftheswords 07:06, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Fair enough, but his teeth are showing (which looks happier in the thumbnail than up close). InedibleHulk (talk) 07:15, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Union Square, New York sounds like a small town on the mainland not one of Manhattan's most important town squares. Suggest New York City instead of New York and dropping the United States. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 06:10, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Yes, it is local news. And moreover, it is very much so. The impact is irrelevant beyond the injured and the arrested. And the interest, very little. Not even the streamer responsible is one of the best known. Not all news that enjoys international coverage is because it is really important (and this has been made clear many, many times). Worst riots that have happened have not been posted. That it happened in New York and the police activated the alert is circumstantial. Just one more news item of the week that will change few people's lives. Friendly advice: switch to the international news channel. _-_Alsor (talk) 08:09, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - 9 injuries. Nothing more than local news. Anarchyte (talk) 08:17, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Alsor and Anarchyte are right, this is hype, and the suspects are mostly children. There's a moral dilemma about hyping up kids as mobsters, even without naming names, plus no jury in the state would throw the book at them (these days). So probably a bunch of local slaps on the wrist; I'm out. InedibleHulk (talk) 08:22, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per Anarchyte and Alsor. This doesn’t have any impact and isn’t notable despite being widely reported. It’s great that it meets one of the points in WP:ITNPURPOSE but it still needs to meet ITN’s minimum significance standard (whatever that actually is at this point). Scientia potentia est, MonarchOfTerror 09:00, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Support The views section feels a bit off and there’s one clarification needed tag, but article is fine otherwise. Scientia potentia est, MonarchOfTerror 22:02, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Oppose the article needs quite a bit of citation work and while this doesn't influence my nomination much, I think the writing on the article needs improvement as well. ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 03:22, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Law professor. Article still needs some work. Innisfree987 (talk) 21:57, 4 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Article needs some major ref work. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 21:59, 4 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Articles needs a lot of work, 3 orange tags and tons of cn tags. These tags need to be adressed meaning sourcing improvements and fixing the lede. Scientia potentia est, MonarchOfTerror 22:48, 4 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Death announced 3 August. Thriley (talk) 07:27, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I’m not typically not too strict on this, but too short, needs some expansion. Also a pretty big gap between last information in the article and his death. Scientia potentia est, MonarchOfTerror 08:42, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Actor, best known as Hector Salamanca on Breaking Bad/Better Call Saul. Article needs major sourcing updates. Masem (t) 17:04, 4 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Filmography needs ref work and his career section could be expanded covering his career from the 1950s–1980s and 2000s. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 17:12, 4 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I've done a lot of work, but still a good amount of uncited info 2 uncited tv shows and 1 uncited film left. I’ve expanded career section and rest of the article is adequately sourced. Almost there. If worst comes to worst we can comment out/remove the unsourced info. Scientia potentia est, MonarchOfTerror 19:31, 4 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose for now regretfully as there's still gaps in sourcing. Many thanks to MonarchOfTerror and anyone else who worked on the page recently for significantly improving the referencing, it's looking much better than it was earlier today. Hoping that it'll get up to shape soon. May he rest in peace 🛎️ Vanilla Wizard 💙 23:00, 4 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support He's a reknown actor with a veteran acting career since the 1960s, most notably Breaking Bad, Better Call Saul and Scarface. GodzillamanRor (talk) 15:34, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD. Curbon7 (talk) 16:45, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support considerable updates since the last oppose vote. GreatCaesarsGhost 12:33, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Posted, I see one or two missing refs but I'll consider this acceptable. --Tone 13:20, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Noted actress in Russian cinema. Article may need some attention. FATMFERWITHTHECANIBUS (talk) 10:35, 4 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: The State of Florida killed Barnes on August 3rd, 2023. -- RockstoneSend me a message! 05:41, 4 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I concur Also an American burglar and rapist, aged 61 (for the record). InedibleHulk (talk) 18:08, 4 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Posted with disambiguation. Too many people with this name to confidently post it solely as "James Barnes". There's also Jimmy Barnes (real name James Barnes), who is one of the best selling Australian musicians. Anarchyte (talk) 02:37, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That draws a lot of attention, how about James P. Barnes instead? That should exclude a lot of false matches. - Indefensible (talk) 03:29, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I removed the disambiguation, then having seen the suggestion above, have added the middle initial. A far better look IMvHO. Mjroots (talk) 05:26, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Article updated and well sourced. Death announced/became known today --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 20:44, 3 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Support One cn tag but sufficient otherwise. Don't think the one cn tag should prevent it from being posted. Scientia potentia est, MonarchOfTerror 18:57, 3 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support I've removed the sentence with the cn tag as it's not really relevant to his biography. Black Kite (talk) 19:10, 3 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The lede section mentions the subject's business career in footwear and tires, but there is no elaboration in the main prose. --PFHLai (talk) 11:54, 4 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed. What a great and disguised way of keeping it from getting posted. WP:GEOBIAS much. 119.157.74.100 (talk) 15:59, 4 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Where did the "disguised way" come from? Was it my fault that the wikibio was poorly structured? Anyway, it's now posted by Stephen (and I almost got an edit conflict). --PFHLai (talk) 23:21, 4 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Consensus against posting. --Tone 14:46, 3 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Nominator's comments: Long time no see ITN! Anyway, Fitch's downgrade comes after the debt celling crisis in May, who cited the recurring issue as well as declining governmental stability. This will have enormous ramifications; the U.S is the guarantor of the global economic system, and the world relies on the ability for America to pay her debts (that's why the dollar is the global reserve currency). Additionally, this downgrade will prohibits lot of folks who have to borrow from groups with pristine, AAA ratings, which considering that we're already at a 22 year high for interest rates, will have major reverberations. We've already seen the stock market tank following this. This IMO fulfils 1, 3, and 4 of WP:ITNPURPOSE; I can definitely see some folks taking to Wikipedia to research this, but I've noticed that especially with the Trump indictment, that this has flown somewhat under the radar and will likely draw interest from uninformed readers. Highlighting an econ story also helps showcase ITN dynamism in its selection of stories. — Knightoftheswords 05:26, 3 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose this does not seems significant, because so what if some company decided to downgrade American credit, this has no major global impact, and the article is linked to another, and needs a lot of work (that section only has two sentences),Editor 5426387 (talk) 06:04, 3 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support This is significant. Downgrading the US credit rating resulted in a decline on the financial markets and will inevitably raise the interest rates. Considering the size and impact of the US economy, this will have global spill-over effects.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 06:59, 3 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose not that relevant. _-_Alsor (talk) 07:38, 3 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose -- did we post the last time this happened, back in 2011? Things were different then, but I'm curious now. Regardless, I don't think this news is more important than Trump's 3rd indictment, which we didn't post, so I'm going to suggest we don't post this, either. -- RockstoneSend me a message! 10:10, 3 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, we [[Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates/August 2011#[Posted]_U.S._credit_rating_downgrade|did]] (the interlink can't be rendered because the title includes square brackets).--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 11:01, 3 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I believe that previous listing alone qualifies this for ITN/R. Accordingly, Support on quality. DrewieStewie (talk) 12:09, 3 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Part of the day to day US political news. --Masem (t) 12:08, 3 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per Masem. While a great item for politicians on the campaign trail for the 2024 election to latch onto, the impact and consequences of the bond rating downgrade are a bit too subtle to be felt and well-understood in the sense of newsworthiness. That the stock market would drop after such an event is not a surprise, but the stock market wavers up and down all the time. It had zoomed earlier in July after the outlook for a recession seemed less bleak than economists originally predicted. Cheers, ⛵ WaltClipper-(talk) 12:14, 3 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, though I work in the financial services industry myself and find this a little bit interesting, this is a niche finding with little fanfare and a lot of time passed since the main impetus (though Fitch has other more long term reasons for the downgrade!). This point is made here by Bloomberg's Matt Levine: https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2023-08-02/the-us-is-more-aa-now (great article, non-financial people will definitely be able to read this, i strongly recommend his column!). QueensanditsCrazy (talk) 14:19, 3 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Hey, why do my comments get indented even when I reply to the original post? QueensanditsCrazy (talk) 14:20, 3 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per WaltCip, it’s a single company doing so and this stock market fluctuates constantly. Also, a reminder yet again that noms don’t need a dozen+ sources and a paragraph explanation. The Kip (talk) 14:26, 3 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose This occurs normally in the US economic news, it's not worthy of coverage. Rager7 (talk) 14:35, 3 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The Wall Street Journal discloses that cryptocurrency exchange Binance continues to do business within the People's Republic of China despite a formal prohibition of such activity by PRC authorities in 2021; WSJ says that more-or-less open trading totals US$90 billion per month. (Wall Street Journal)
The death toll from the flooding in Beijing, China, which is the city's worst flooding in more than 140 years, increases to 21. (CP24)
Twenty people are killed, five others are missing, and nine others are rescued after a boat carrying charcoal and food capsizes in the Ugandan waters of Lake Victoria. (Al Jazeera)
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Note: Date is current for the most recent updates on the flooding in Beijing. At least a few dozen deaths (though we'll need to do some work to cobble together the most recent numbers from each country if we want to blurb a specific number). King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 00:42, 3 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support once fatalities confirmed as the estimates are very high. The target article seems to be lengthy enough and thoroughly sourced. Vanilla Wizard 💙 01:03, 3 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support Thorough and put together, great article to read for a hurricane geek. Heart(talk) 05:14, 3 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose for now no victims reported. Yet. _-_Alsor (talk) 10:01, 3 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Alsoriano97: What do you mean? Several dozen victims have been reported. -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 16:10, 3 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This is not what the proposal blurb says. It should be updated. _-_Alsor (talk) 16:38, 3 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That's just being lazy. If it's that big a deal, just update it yourself instead of complaining about it not being updated. NoahTalk 16:53, 3 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not going to update a blurb on a topic whose nominator is more fluent. Don't come to bother me. _-_Alsor (talk) 18:22, 3 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Stale since it's past the one-week marker for the sources related to the deaths and is older than the most current blurb in the template.
The hurricane dissipated on July 29. The oldest current blurb mentioned Nero’s theatre being discovered, which was on July 27. 82.193.210.78 (talk) 18:17, 3 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
the dissipation date is not the date used here... The news sources date from July 27 and 28 which was a week ago. NoahTalk 18:23, 3 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The dissipation date is not important - the post-dissipation flooding in China would be eligible for its own article if not for the fact that it fits conveniently in the typhoon article, and I think that alone is sufficiently important to merit an ITN posting. -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 18:43, 3 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support: Despite the fact that I have been following the ongoing tropical cyclone seasons on a daily basis, it never crossed my mind to actually nominate this last week for some reason. But better late than never. --StellarHalo (talk) 05:22, 4 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Oppose Needs better sourcing, with the usual suspects lacking them, being the filmography and awards/nominations section. Scientia potentia est, MonarchOfTerror 19:30, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Agree that this needs ref work Heart(talk) 00:57, 3 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Too much unreferenced materials. Five {cn} tags in prose. Filmography and Awards sections largely unsourced. Please add more footnotes and REFs. --PFHLai (talk) 06:29, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's comments: Major religious riots in the outskirts of Delhi, IndiaAnp222 (talk) 18:10, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support Article looks to be in good shape, news sources are covering the events. Checks all of the boxed. --Jayron32 18:25, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose on quality, Support on notability. A few NPOV-related tags and one failed verification, but length is good and article seems fully-reffed. Proposed a better-worded altblurb - counting the three civilians, two policemen, and deputy imam, that’s six deaths, not five. The Kip (talk) 18:49, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Reading into it a little more, there’s a good bit of loaded language in the article that needs editing to a NPOV. The Kip (talk) 04:00, 3 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support - receiving extensive news coverage from both domestic and to an extent foreign news outlets and is in decent shape. Seems to meet all of the criteria of WP:ITNPURPOSE; there are lots of Indian users of enwiki who could be looking for this, the article is in decent shape, and for those who aren't aware of the story, it can still serve to be an interesting story. All this serves to emphasize the dynamism of ITN as well. — Knightoftheswords 18:45, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support The article accurately details and covers a current event. Rager7 (talk) 18:59, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose on notability, and the article is not suitable for the Main Page at the moment; apart from some borderline BLP issues and uncited contentious statements, there is lots of wording that is incomprehensible to non-Indians and is not linked ("au rakshaks", "cow vigilantism", "Mahapanchayat", "shoba yatra", "Brij Mandal Jalabhishek Yatra", "Shiv Mandir" etc.) Black Kite (talk) 19:21, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I really want to believe that “cow vigilantism” refers to cows themselves committing vigilante acts, but unfortunately I fear that’s not the case. The Kip (talk) 23:18, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose on quality, neutral on notability Article has some NPOV issues, needs better sourcing and needs to be rewritten so that it's is more accessible to a wider audience. I'm not quite sure on notability just yet. Scientia potentia est, MonarchOfTerror 19:29, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support This seems to be ITN-worthy due to the news coverage, however, I would suggest changing the blurb to "Five are killed during a mosque fire in a series of religious riots in Haryana, India" because that would make more sense. Editor 5426387 (talk) 21:58, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Problem with that is twofold - six are dead, and nobody was killed in the fire itself. The Kip (talk) 23:19, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose on quality Article's neutrality is in question. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 22:35, 3 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support - I fixed two tags and seems good enough to be posted now. 59.103.198.122 (talk) 23:48, 3 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Article still needs extensive copyediting/revisions before being blurbed. Some wording is loaded/biased, the lede is far too long, and there’s still an excess of terms unfamiliar to non-Indian readers. The Kip (talk) 15:36, 4 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The article has largely been improved since yesterday as far as NPOV is concerned. 119.157.74.100 (talk) 16:54, 4 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support Wikipedia is very popular on South Asia and this is a big deal for them. MarioJump83 (talk) 22:59, 4 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support Notable event reported both domestically and abroad, issues regarding the quality of the article have been largely resolved. Golem08 (talk) 23:31, 4 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Clearly orange-tagged and the talk page suggests the push-and-pull will get worse before it gets better. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:56, 4 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support alt3—I think the article's quality is good enough for a blurb at this time. Kurtis(talk) 17:48, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose The article is a mess, there's some edit warring on the article, and it seems like a specific POV is being pushed given the article edit history. Daniel Quinlan (talk) 04:21, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
(Closed) Henrietta Lacks settlement
Consensus against posting. Also, one-sentence update in the article is kind of thin for ITN consideration. --Tone 14:50, 3 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Nominator's comments: perhaps not the case of the century, but this is a good article (and still appears good) and an interesting subject. Masem (t) 15:56, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral. Interesting subject that arguably has relevance to medical research/ethics worldwide, and the article is a GA, but we only have two measly sentences on the Fisher Scientific lawsuit. Given that this was a settlement with undisclosed terms and the company declined to give any more information to news outlets, I am not sure we can expect any more information on the matter to become public anytime soon. So I am reluctant to fully support, but I will not oppose either. 70.181.1.68 (talk) 16:22, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Would love to see this as a blurb, but it seems the Lacks article's lead hasn't been updated to reflect the lawsuit settlement, and I agree with what the IP editor said earlier -Gouleg🛋️ harass/hound (she/her) 16:31, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Impossible to determine significance/impact/whatever with undisclosed terms. InedibleHulk (talk) 16:46, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per InedibleHulk. An interesting story and perhaps impactful, but as society has made advancements in the realm of patient rights in the past 70 years, this settlement is probably less noteworthy then it would have been had it been paid out earlier on. DarkSide830 (talk) 17:50, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The family only sued in 2021. Masem (t) 17:52, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
We can only presume someone got paid. InedibleHulk (talk) 18:00, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Weak support High quality article, news coverage is appropriate, the only thing keeping me from fully supporting this is the update, which consists of a single sentence. Otherwise, I would be proud to put this in front of front-page visitors. If someone could expand the update on today's developments to a more appropriate depth (at least 3-4 good sentences about the verdict settlement and its relevance) I think this would be a full support from me, easily. --Jayron32 17:54, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
There is no verdict, it was a civil suit settled out of court (hence the secrecy). InedibleHulk (talk) 18:00, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
So corrected. Thanks for letting me know the correct verbiage. --Jayron32 18:08, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I'm unable to see the impact of this as relevant beyond the country and the circles involved. _-_Alsor (talk) 18:02, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose The lawsuit settlement isn't particularly important. It's the HeLa human cell line that's more important, but sadly that's not what's in the news. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 18:07, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support - I actually learned about her in my freshman biology class and have since done some more research. One of the stated goals of ITN is to
To point readers to subjects they might not have been looking for but nonetheless may interest them.
The story of Lacks and the HeLa cell line is a fairly fascinating story; the controversy surrounding the extraction of her cancer cells, a critical and well studied source in medical research, has persisted for years and will likely affect the relationship between scientific studies and patient privacy for years on end. This would also be a great chance to get a GA on ITN. — Knightoftheswords 18:39, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I think that is all a good reason to consider posting, but the section is still called "in the news." We need a bit more on recent events. Might I suggest that in 3 days we'll have some "day two stories" on this to flesh out impact? GreatCaesarsGhost 19:22, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
A lot of other non-disclosure agreements last literally forever, but the next few days are within "the new normal", so I'll flip if something "unprecedented" comes out. InedibleHulk (talk) 19:31, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral On one hand her discovery cancer cells can be relevant in the modern scientific field. However, she discovered it some time ago which can make irrelevant. Rager7 (talk) 19:03, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Uh, you might wanna review the article again. GreatCaesarsGhost 19:22, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Her scientific discovery happened back in the 1950s hence not worthy of ITN coverage. Rager7 (talk) 23:31, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
She did not discover anything, Rager7. Cancer cells from her body were taken by others and propagated and used without her knowledge or consent. That is the entire point of the lawsuit that this blurb is actually about. I'm surprised, and frustrated, that you're comfortable commenting on this without making some minimal effort to understand what is going on. I'm really trying not to be a jerk here, but this page has enough problems without drive-by information-free "votes". You're welcome here, Rager7, but you need to put some effort in to understand what you're talking about. People can make mistakes, but this wasn't a misunderstanding; you didn't read any of the links provided here. Floquenbeam (talk) 23:50, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Alright, next time I'll try at least reading the blub before voting. Rager7 (talk) 23:57, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose Seems interesting and definitely a different kind of story from what we usually post but I can’t really see the significance. Nice that the article is a GA though. Scientia potentia est, MonarchOfTerror 19:20, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose with regret. The backstory is fascinating and the article is in decent shape. But the legal business which is the reason for the blurb is all of two sentences. And as noted above, the long-term significance is unclear. -Ad Orientem (talk) 22:18, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
To put this in a different way, the long term significance has already been established (being the importance of the HeLa line); thus would be the same reason we post convictions because of what happened in the past. Masem (t) 22:21, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
If the HeLa are the important thing, that should be the target article. We don't know how or if this agreement (whatever it was) will affect the cells and all the work they do. But we know Henrietta Lacks is unaffected, despite the symbolic whatever of "justice" coming on "her 103rd birthday". InedibleHulk (talk) 00:15, 3 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Same logic can be used to oppose convictions too. All the crimes were in the past, nothing in the future will be affected, so we shouldn't post them. It's bad logic. Masem (t) 12:16, 3 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
References
Nominators often include links to external websites and other references in discussions on this page. It is usually best to provide such links using the inline URL syntax[http://example.com] rather than using <ref></ref> tags, because that keeps all the relevant information in the same place as the nomination without having to jump to this section, and facilitates the archiving process.
For the times when <ref></ref> tags are being used, here are their contents:
In the news toolbox.jpg)
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