Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates

This page provides a place to discuss new items for inclusion on In the news (ITN), a protected template on the Main Page (see past items in the ITN archives). Do not report errors in ITN items that are already on the Main Page here— discuss those at the relevant section of WP:ERRORS.

This candidates page is integrated with the daily pages of Portal:Current events. A light green header appears under each daily section - it includes transcluded Portal:Current events items for that day. You can discuss ITN candidates under the header.

Michel Patrick Boisvert Acting prime minister of Haiti Ariel Henry resigns, and is replaced by Michel Patrick Boisvert (pictured) while the Transitional Presidential Council is sworn in. The Ownership, Unity and Responsibility Party, led by Prime Minister Manasseh Sogavare, wins the most seats in the Solomon Islands general election but falls short of a majority. NASA announces that the Voyager 1 space probe is sending readable data for the first time in five months. The HDZ-led coalition wins the most seats in the Croatian parliamentary election but falls short of a majority. Ich­thy­o­titan, the largest known marine reptile, is formally described. Ongoing: Israel–Hamas war Myanmar civil war Russian invasion of Ukraine timeline War in Sudan timeline Recent deaths: Jean-Pierre Ferland Joko Pinurbo Vincent O'Sullivan Peter Ingham Korey Cunningham Donald Payne Jr. view — page history — related changes — edit

Glossary Blurbs are one-sentence summaries of the news story. Altblurbs, labelled alt1, alt2, etc., are alternative suggestions to cover the same story. A target article, bolded in text, is the focus of the story. Each blurb must have at least one such article, but you may also link non-target articles. Articles in the Ongoing line describe events getting continuous coverage. The Recent deaths (RD) line includes any living thing whose death was recently announced. Consensus may decide to create a blurb for a recent death. All articles linked in the ITN template must pass our standards of review. They should be up-to-date, demonstrate relevance via good sourcing and have at least an acceptable quality. Nomination steps Make sure the item you want to nominate has an article that meets our minimum requirements and contains reliable coverage of a current event you want to create a blurb about. We will not post about events described in an article that fails our quality standards. Find the correct section below for the date of the event (not the date nominated). Do not add sections for new dates manually - a bot does that for us each day at midnight (UTC). Create a level 4 header with the article name (==== Your article here ====). Add (RD) or (Ongoing) if appropriate. Then paste the {{ITN candidate}} template with its parameters and fill them in. The news source should be reliable, support your nomination and be in the article. Write your blurb in simple present tense. Below the template, briefly explain why we should post that event. After that, save your edit. Your nomination is ready! You may add {{ITN note}} to the target article's talk page to let editors know about your nomination. The better your article's quality, the better it covers the event and the wider its perceived significance (see WP:ITNSIGNIF for details), the better your chances of getting the blurb posted. Headers When the article is ready, updated and there is consensus to post, you can mark the item as (Ready). Remove that wording if you feel the article fails any of these necessary criteria. Admins should always separately verify whether these criteria are met before posting blurbs marked (Ready). For more guidance, check WP:ITN/A. If satisfied, change the header to (Posted). Where there is no consensus, or the article's quality remains poor, change the header to (Closed) or (Not posted). Sometimes, editors ask to retract an already-posted nomination because of a fundamental error or because consensus changed. If you feel the community supports this, remove the item and mark the item as (Pulled). Voicing an opinion on an item Format your comment to contain "support" or "oppose", and include a rationale for your choice. In particular, address the notability of the event, the quality of the article, and whether it has been updated. Please do... Pick an older item to review near the bottom of this page, before the eligibility runs out and the item scrolls off the page and gets abandoned in the archive, unused and forgotten. Review an item even if it has already been reviewed by another user. You may be the first to spot a problem, or the first to confirm that an identified problem was fixed. Piling on the list of "support!" votes will help administrators see what is ready to be posted on the Main Page. Tell about problems in articles if you see them. Be bold and fix them yourself if you know how, or tell others if it's not possible. Please do not... Add simple "support!" or "oppose!" votes without including your reasons. Similarly, curt replies such as "who?", "meh", or "duh!" are not helpful. A vote without reasoning means little for us, please elaborate yourself. Oppose an item just because the event is only relating to a single country, or failing to relate to one. We post a lot of such content, so these comments are generally unproductive. Accuse other editors of supporting, opposing or nominating due to a personal bias (such as ethnocentrism). We at ITN do not handle conflicts of interest. Comment on a story without first reading the relevant article(s). Oppose a recurring item here because you disagree with the recurring items criteria. Discuss them here. Use ITN as a forum for your own political or personal beliefs. Such comments are irrelevant to the outcome and are potentially disruptive. Suggesting updates There are two places where you can request corrections to posted items: Anything that does not change the intent of the blurb (spelling, grammar, markup issues, updating death tolls etc.) should be discussed at WP:Errors. Discuss major changes in the blurb's intent or very complex updates as part of the current ITNC nomination.

April 2

Portal:Current events/2024 April 2

April 2, 2024 (2024-04-02) (Tuesday) Armed conflicts and attacks Russian invasion of Ukraine Attacks in Russia during the Russian invasion of Ukraine Ukraine launches airstrikes more than 1,000 kilometres (620 mi) inside Russia, targeting an oil refinery and the dormitory of a factory producing Iranian-designed Shahed drones in Yelabuga, Tatarstan. Several people are injured. (The Guardian) (Al Jazeera) Dnipro strikes Eighteen people, including five children, are injured in a Russian missile strike in Dnipro, Ukraine. (Reuters) Iran–Israel conflict during the Syrian civil war Israeli bombing of the Iranian embassy in Damascus Iran's Supreme National Security Council says that it has decided on a response to the Israeli attack on its diplomatic facilities in Damascus, Syria, which killed several high-ranking members of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps. (The Guardian) Ethnic violence in South Sudan Armed youths belonging to the Murle people attack a village in Greater Pibor Administrative Area, South Sudan, killing 12 people and injuring 10 others, with 15 children reported missing. Most of the victims were elderly residents. (Reuters) Disasters and accidents Gayrettepe nightclub fire Twenty-nine people are killed and eight others are injured in a fire at a nightclub under renovation in Istanbul, Turkey. (Reuters) Law and crime 2024 Mexican general election A mayoral candidate is assassinated in Celaya, Guanajuato, ahead of Mexico's upcoming general election. (CNN) Viertola school shooting A student is killed and two others are injured in a shooting at a school in Vantaa, Uusimaa, Finland. A 12-year-old student is detained. (AP) (Yle) Business and economy General Electric finalizes split into 3 independent companies: GE Aerospace, GE Vernova and GE HealthCare. (Reuters).

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Gayrettepe nightclub fire

Article: Gayrettepe nightclub fire (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In Turkey, at least 29 construction workers are killed in a fire while renovating an Istanbul nightclub. (Post)
News source(s): Reuters
Credits:

• Nominated by The Kip (talk · give credit)
• Created by Fixer88 (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Borgenland (talk · give credit) and Leaky.Solar (talk · give credit)

Article updated

Little surprised this hadn’t been nominated yet. The Kip 21:19, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose, not every disaster with 20+ deaths has to be on ITN. Chaotıċ Enby (talk · contribs) 22:27, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose barring something like this being arson or the like, thus type if low-level man made accidental disaster isn't good material fir stand alone articles as it likely will have no impact within a few years. Masem (t) 22:43, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
• Support -- I'm sorry, if this occurred in an Anglosphere country, this would be posted instantly. There is no requirement for a minimum number of deaths, but this event is nonetheless notable enough for posting, the fact that it happened in Turkey instead of the US or UK is not reason not to post. -- Rockstone^{Send me a message!} 23:26, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Judith Tuluka Appointed First African Woman PM

Article: Judith Tuluka (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The President of DR Congo names Judith Suminwa Tuluka as first African female Prime Minister (Post)
News source(s): Al Jazeera
Credits:

• Nominated by Heatrave (talk · give credit)

Heatrave (talk) 20:31, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose on both quality and notability: Tuluka’s article is a stub in dreadful shape, the PM of the DRC does not hold executive power, and Tuluka is not the first female African head of state or government. The Kip 21:08, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

RD: John Sinclair

Article: John Sinclair (poet) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [1][2][3] [4]
Credits:

• Updated by 7&6=thirteen (talk · give credit) and DarkStarHarry (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Big in the White Panther Party. Important poet. Counter cultural icon. Founder of the Hash bash in Ann Arbor, Michigan John Lennon played to free him from persecution (and prison). 7&6=thirteen (☎) 20:23, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

RD: Chris Cross

Article: Chris Cross (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Sky News
Credits:

• Nominated by Black Kite (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Ultravox bassist; co-wrote "Vienna" amongst others. Died on 25 March; news released today. Article needs a lot of work. Note: NOT Christopher Cross, who was surprised to be informed he was dead on social media. Black Kite (talk) 19:51, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

(Closed) Viertola school shooting

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Article: Viertola school shooting (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A school shooting in Finland leaves one dead and two injured. (Post)
News source(s): PBS
Credits:

• Nominated by Jalapeño (talk · give credit)

Very rare and tragic event in Finland. 🔥Jalapeño🔥 Stupid stuff I did 15:23, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose for now. Article is a stub and I'm leaning towards lacking notability as well. ✈ mike_gigs ^talk_contribs 15:27, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose it might be rare in Finland, but come on now. With one death, this isn't notable. It's not even a mass shooting by any definition. --Rockstone^{Send me a message!} 16:36, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

  No, it is not that it "might be rare" to occur in Finland, it is that “it is rare”. A certainty. _-_Alsor (talk) 18:04, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose, not every shooting is notable, even in countries with a usually low crime rate. Chaotıċ Enby (talk · contribs) 16:51, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose A shooting is rare in Europe, let alone Finland. But with one fatality, this unfortunate act is not ITN-worthy. _-_Alsor (talk) 18:06, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose Although my heart goes out to the victims, this is just standard police blotter stuff. rawmustard (talk) 19:06, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose per all above, and recommend SNOW close. The Kip 21:01, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

RD: Maryse Condé

Article: Maryse Condé (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

• Nominated by Dilettante (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Arguably the preeminent French writer. Perennial candidate for the Nobel. Brilliant writer, dead at 90. Bibliography needs sourcing. Sincerely, Dilettante 14:45, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

RD: Larry Lucchino

Article: Larry Lucchino (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Boston Globe
Credits:

• Nominated by MAINEiac4434 (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Longtime baseball executive, article seems well-sourced. MAINEiac4434 (talk) 14:19, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

• Support - looks good to me ✈ mike_gigs ^talk_contribs 15:22, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
• The article has no citation for his birth date. Flibirigit (talk) 19:53, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
  • Support. Added a citation for the above, and fix a couple others. Flibirigit (talk) 19:59, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

April 1

Portal:Current events/2024 April 1

April 1, 2024 (2024-04-01) (Monday) Armed conflicts and attacks Israel–Hamas war World Central Kitchen drone strikes Seven volunteers from the World Central Kitchen, including six British, Polish, Australian and Palestinian nationals and a dual American-Canadian citizen, are killed in an Israeli airstrike south of Deir el-Balah. (Al Jazeera) The Islamic Resistance in Iraq launches three drones at Eilat, Southern Israel, damaging a building. No injuries are reported. (The Times of Israel) Israel–Hezbollah conflict, Iran–Israel conflict during the Syrian civil war Israeli bombing of the Iranian embassy in Damascus An Israeli airstrike targeting the Iranian embassy in Damascus, Syria, kills eight members of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, including Iranian brigadier general Mohammad Reza Zahedi. (Reuters) (SOHR) Disasters and accidents Authorities in Amur Oblast, Russia, end the rescue operations for 13 workers who were trapped in a deep gold mine since March 18, and declare the workers dead. (ABC News) International relations North Korea fires a ballistic missile into the Sea of Japan near South Korean territory. (AP) Law and crime Censorship in Israel The Israeli government says that it will ban Al Jazeera from broadcasting in its territory. (BBC News) Politics and elections Politics of San Marino Milena Gasperoni and Alessandro Rossi are sworn in as the new Captains Regent of San Marino. (San Marino RTV)

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World Central Kitchen drone strikes

Article: World Central Kitchen drone strikes (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In Gaza, Israeli Defense Forces kill 7 World Central Kitchen aid workers in a drone strike. (Post)
News source(s): BBC, Reuters, O Globo
Credits:

• Nominated by Bait30 (talk · give credit)
• Created by Makeandtoss (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Durranistan (talk · give credit)

Article updated

I know this is covered in ongoing, but I believe the significance and magnitude of this event is worthy enough of it to be covered as a full blurb as well.  Bait30  ^{Talk 2 me pls?} 20:48, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose blurb Unlike the consulate strike below, this is covered by ongoing, and besides the non-Israeli/Palestinian nationalities of the deceased I don’t see what makes this especially different than any of the war’s unfortunately many attacks on civilians (including aid workers). The Kip 21:00, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

  It's unfortunate that the media/world governments care more when it's Western nationalities, but that fact is the reason why it's getting so much more coverage than any of the other killings of civilians in this war. And again, just because something is covered by ongoing doesn't mean it cannot be blurbed.  Bait30  ^{Talk 2 me pls?} 21:29, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose not the first humanitarian aide deaths and likely won't be the last until Israel changes their approach to Gaza. Should be covered by ongoing. Masem (t) 21:35, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Strong support this is heavily covered by major news organizations and its ramifications are far ranging; also I was just going to nominate this anyway. Makeandtoss (talk) 22:23, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

RD:Joe Flaherty

Article: Joe Flaherty (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NBC News
Credits:

• Nominated by Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Noted Actor.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 18:27, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

• Not ready. Many paragraphs without citations. The filmography is mostly unsourced. A citation is needed for his birth date. Flibirigit (talk) 20:03, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

RD: Lou Conter

Article: Lou Conter (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NY Times
Credits:

• Nominated by Ad Orientem (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Last survivor of the USS Arizona sunk at Pearl Harbor. Ad Orientem (talk) 00:57, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

In less of that I’d go for in the news rather than for recent deaths. It’s big news, at least in the US.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1011:b13f:5382:6420:adfe:2a66:f322 (talk) 01:59, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

I've no view on the article itself, but this IP comment appears to be calling for a blurb. I really think that's not appropriate; being present at an event, and then surviving for a long time afterwards, is not a particularly noteworthy achievement in itself. GenevieveDEon (talk) 07:56, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Agreed. I don't think this is blurb worthy. When the last survivor of World War II goes, that would be worth considering. -Ad Orientem (talk) 14:17, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Support RD, oppose blurb The article is of sufficiently good quality for RD, but the death itself isn't noteworthy enough to be blurbed. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 11:53, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

• Support RD - article is sourced well-enough ✈ mike_gigs ^talk_contribs 15:23, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

RD: Vontae Davis

Article: Vontae Davis (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NBC News
Credits:

• Nominated by The Kip (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Carrite (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

The Kip 21:11, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

• Support - well cited! ✈ mike_gigs ^talk_contribs 15:24, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

RD/Blurb: Mohammad Reza Zahedi, 2024 Iranian consulate airstrike in Damascus

WARNING: ACTIVE ARBITRATION REMEDIES

Articles: Mohammad Reza Zahedi (talk · history · tag) and 2024 Iranian consulate airstrike in Damascus (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb:  In Syria, an Israeli airstrike kills eight people at the Iranian consulate in Damascus, including brigadier general Mohammad Reza Zahedi (pictured). (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In Syria, a suspected Israeli airstrike kills eight people at the Iranian consulate in Damascus, including brigadier general Mohammad Reza Zahedi (pictured).
News source(s): Reuters
Credits:

• Nominated by Knightoftheswords281 (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Israeli forces killed 8 people in an airstrike against the Iranian consulate. The death of Mohammad Reza Zahedi is the most senior death since Solemani. The first article needs work. — Knightoftheswords 19:31, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose on quality Both articles are of insufficient quality at the present moment. Scientia potentia est, MonarchOfTerror 19:44, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
• Support on notability, an intentional strike on diplomatic staff is novel to my knowledge. Traumnovelle (talk) 20:27, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose Israel has not acknowledged responsibility and there are lots of warring factions in Syria. For precedents, see the List of attacks on diplomatic missions. Cases involving Iran/Persia include the Iran hostage crisis, 1983 US embassy bombing in Beirut and more, going back to Alexander Griboyedov. Andrew🐉(talk) 21:30, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

• Support for RD senior IRGC general, def deserves an RD at the very least, weaker support for ITN just because these attacks also happen all the time with Hamas leadership and they aren’t reported on Ion.want.uu (talk) 01:56, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
• Support RD once at quality, oppose blurb (either as news story or death blurb) Zahedi does pass notability (info about him well before today), but clearly is not a major figure that we'd give a normal out-of-respect death blurb to. The strike itself is part of the existing ongoing Red Sea crisis item, and would have just been an update to the appropriate article and considered under ongoing for this, so blurbing the event doesn't make sense. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Masem (talk • contribs) 02:00, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
• Support RD Zahedi's article has enough details & references to post as a RD. Support altblurb on notability, oppose on quality This is important enough for a blurb, but the quality of the airstrike article isn't good enough. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 03:12, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
• Support Blurb per Blaylock, but agree we should wait to post until the airstrike article is improved after additional updates/news coverage take place. I do think Zahedi's article is fine though, even if brief. Flip^andFlopped ツ 03:53, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Support Blurb - Per above. Article is of high quality, making a lot of headlines PrecariousWorlds (talk) 11:51, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Support blurb per above. A very blurb worthy one. The Herald (Benison) (talk) 12:46, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

• Support blurb in principle, significant event which is not directly part of the Gaza war (so not covered by ongoing). The bold link should be the airstrike article, which is a good start but not ready. It has a few {{cn}} tags and currently has only one sentence about the actual airstrike - most of the content is background and 'reactions'. It needs to expand the description of what actually happened before posting. Modest Genius ^talk 12:55, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

  Update: reliable sources are now reporting this as a genuine Israeli airstrike, not just 'suspected', based on private comments by Israeli sources. Modest Genius ^talk 16:22, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

• Support blurb As per above, this is not covered by ongoing, and I think the killing of a high ranking IRGC general is notable enough. As per Modest Genius, the bold link in the blurb should only be the airstrike itself. Gödel2200 (talk) 14:13, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
• Weak support on the blurb. Event is notable and has the possibility to dramatically escalate tensions in the region, but I'm just a little hesitant to not violate WP:CRYSTALBALL. Definitely Support RD though. ✈ mike_gigs ^talk_contribs 15:32, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
• Support blurb, happened in Syria against Iranian personnel, so neither covered by the Gaza war nor the Red Sea crisis. The uniqueness of the strike and the high rank of the person targeted make it notable enough. Chaotıċ Enby (talk · contribs) 16:54, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
• Weak support blurb, support RD per Mike_gigs. The Kip 20:57, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
• I think the overall event itself is blurb-worthy even if none of the deceased have an article for RD. That one of those killed has an article and this is a RD/blurb nomination just sort of complicated things. -- KTC (talk) 21:16, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Legalisation of recreational cannabis use in Germany

Article: Cannabis in Germany (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In Germany, the Bundestag legalises recreational cannabis use. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Germany becomes the third country in Europe to legalize recreational cannabis.
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

• Nominated by Gödel2200 (talk · give credit)

This follows a nomination back in February after the bill got passed, but now the law has actually come into effect. Gödel2200 (talk) 00:44, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

Support Largest country that has legalized cannabis fully. Lukt64 (talk) 01:04, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose It's not that big of a deal. A lot of countries have either legalized it outright, or de facto decriminalized it. If they decriminalized recreational drug use more broadly, I'd probably support. But this is neither novel, nor an especially major development in global attitudes towards drug use. -Ad Orientem (talk) 02:09, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

  There are not much countrys who have legalized it for recreational use. Its subjectiv to think there are a lot of countries who have decriminalized it. See Legality of cannabis. LennBr (talk) 12:11, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose - Per AO. With almost one country every 6 months doing this, it ain't news anymore, especially the Western Hemisphere. Could be more notable on the other side of the globe. The Herald (Benison) (talk) 02:34, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose - Was practically legal before and per Ad Orientem's last sentence. Traumnovelle (talk) 02:36, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose. Not that big of a deal, and as @Traumnovelle stated, cannabis was practically legal already. 🔥Jalapeño🔥 Stupid stuff I did 06:04, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

Citation needed that it was practically legal in germany. And please don't link to an article about the state of berlin or whatever. It varied wildly from basically zero tolerance to unofficial decriminilization. But it certainly wasn't 'practically legal' on the federal level. Neither was it 'practically legal' in the majority of states. 80.228.131.106 (talk) 12:06, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

Don't tell me that then, tell Traumnovelle. 🔥Jalapeño🔥 Stupid stuff I did 07:42, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

It was already legal for medicinal use, consumption wasn't illegal, and police had guidelines to not prosecute for personal amounts unless it was in the public interest - which corresponded to use in public or around minors, which is still illegal under the new law. This law change is more of policy and recommendation being codified in law than any serious and major change. Traumnovelle (talk) 07:52, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Consumption of no drug is illegal in germany in itself. Just how the laws work. Not aimed at consumers, allowing them to seek help and whatnot without criminalizing themselves etc. Just a different philosphical aproach. Doesn't mean opiods(as a random example) aren't highly illegal. But someone ODing can seek help without fearing criminal consequences, just as an example. That police nationwide had guidelines to not prosecute is just simply not true. In some states, sure. In others... yeah, not at all. It is a major change in most states. And as a meaningless anecdote, i live in a state which had a more liberal stance towards defacto acceptance, i still could have gotten into major trouble for what i am now legally allowed to do. And it wouldn't have been a misdemeanor but a crime that would have prevented me from getting visas in some countries and the like. Broad real life consequences that now simply vanished. But you lot do whatever. I am just happy to not be a 'criminal' anymore. 85.16.39.169 (talk) 13:05, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

• Needs work There are several {{citation needed}} and some parts are still written in a tentative future tense. Andrew🐉(talk) 08:38, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

Neutral on notability, oppose on quality The article has multiple short and unreferenced sections. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 09:12, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

• Support on notability The most populated country of europe legalizes cannabis possession for recreational use. Not many countries have done that. see Legality of cannabis. --LennBr (talk) 12:15, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
• Support on notability I've added an altblurb that would reflect this legalization a lot better. Support on notability as this is currently making headlines in European news, but the article needs some work before it's ready. TwistedAxe [contact] 13:06, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
• Support - The most populous country that has legalised recreational cannabis use so far. While it was decriminalised before in certain parts and regions, this didn't really apply to the entire country. And it also being only the third outright legalisation in Europe, as well as it having plenty of news coverage, makes me think this is notable enough to be covered. - Bucket of sulfuric acid (talk | contribs) 13:39, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose - per above 2A00:23C8:B00:AD01:106:C016:D59A:AA77 (talk) 14:25, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose. This is not a new thing. That this "isn't common in Europe" (debatable) or that Germany has many people (and what of it?) shouldn't be relevant. DarkSide830 (talk) 17:18, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
• Support I support this solely based on the fact that Germany's the most powerful European nation. And we've posted gay marriage legalizations in small irrelevant central american countries, why not post about Cannabis legalization in the biggest european one? Kasperquickly (talk) 20:11, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

  Pretty sure that ITN items shouldn't be supported solely because of the country it's in. 🔥Jalapeño🔥 Stupid stuff I did 07:56, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

  Forgive me for being blunt. But it rings a bit hollow for you, who blindly followed the untrue rationale of someone else, to be lecturing people. If someone states a 'fact' as rationale, at least check for yourself if that is actually true. And i by no means want to call anyone a liar or assume bad faith otherwise. Misunderstandings happen and all of that. But please, if you vote 'per' at least check the claim yourself. 85.16.39.169 (talk) 21:33, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Neutral leaning toward oppose This is pretty minor news, just one country of 195 legalizing cannabis. Asjhsz (talk) 02:12, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Support original blurb on notability per the reasoning of Lukt64 & LennBr. Oppose on quality The quality of the article isn't good enough. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 03:02, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Leaning support on notability not per the population of Germany (as this would implicitly suggest developments in smaller countries are less notable), but per the rarity of cannabis being legalized. It's not that common. I can understand ITN's increasing reluctance to post marriage equality blurbs these days, opting to only post them when there's something extraordinary about it, e.g. Taiwan being the first country in Asia to do it. The tides have already shifted on that one and it's become par for the course in the West. But I don't think the same can be said about the legal status of cannabis, at least not yet. Per Legality of cannabis, very few countries throughout the world have legalized recreational cannabis, so I don't think we're at the point where we can say this is so commonplace that it doesn't represent any significant shift in legislation. Rather, legislative changes like this are the major turning points that will eventually lead to it being commonplace. I sympathize with the counterargument that in Germany or in other parts of Europe there existed a de facto but not de jure legalization, but I feel this is also a little overstated.  Vanilla  Wizard 💙 13:42, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

• support blurb on notability, since it's a controversial subject. 3000MAX (talk) 17:03, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
• Support original blurb per above. The Kip 21:10, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

March 31

Portal:Current events/2024 March 31

March 31, 2024 (2024-03-31) (Sunday) Armed conflicts and attacks 2024 Ecuadorian conflict Eight people are killed and at least ten others are injured by armed gangs in Guayaquil, Ecuador. (NOS) Haitian crisis Canada deploys 70 members of its armed forces to Jamaica to train peacekeepers for a future intervention in Haiti. (CBC News) Russian President Vladimir Putin signs a decree for a larger than normal spring conscription campaign, calling up 150,000 citizens for military service. (CNBC) (Reuters) Business and economy The New York Times reports that private records for millions of AT&T customers have been affected by a data breach and leaked onto the dark web. (The New York Times) Disasters and accidents 2024 France floods The town of Montmorillon in Nouvelle-Aquitaine is hit by severe flooding following heavy rains. (Sky News) An ongoing severe drought in southern Africa causes around 20 million people to experience hunger. (AP) (The Independent) Law and crime In the largest heist in city history, $30 million is stolen from a GardaWorld money storage facility in Sylmar, Los Angeles, California, United States. (Los Angeles Times) (KABC-TV) (CNN) Politics and elections 2024 Turkish local elections 2024 Istanbul mayoral election Ekrem İmamoğlu is re-elected as mayor of Istanbul. (The New York Times) Voters in Turkey go to the polls for their local elections. (France 24) Visa policy of the Schengen Area Bulgaria and Romania partially join the Schengen Area, allowing travel by air and sea without border checks, Austria vetoed travel by land without border checks over fears that non-EU citizens could get easier access to the European Union. (France 24)

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Ongoing: War in Sudan (2023–present)

Article: War in Sudan (2023–present) (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item nomination (Post)
Credits:

• Nominated by Lukt64 (talk · give credit)

Nominator's comments: I am proposing this as an alternative to the nomination below. Also add timeline parameter per Godel2000. Lukt64 (talk) 17:39, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

• Support though we can't just list the main article, as it doesn't have enough updates. Instead, we should do what we did for the Russian invasion of Ukraine, and list the timeline (which has daily updates), looking something like: War in Sudan (timeline). Gödel2200 (talk) 17:54, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

  Support timeline being added Lukt64 (talk) 17:56, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

  Support timeline being added since the updates are daily and include frequent events from March 25, 26, 27, and 28 most recently Fileyfood500 (talk) 18:00, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

Support Near daily updates to the article, and recent events added to the timeline from February and March 2024 Fileyfood500 (talk) 17:56, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

Support per Fileyfood500 Staraction (talk | contribs) 18:14, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

Support per above, and list the timeline alongside. Chaotıċ Enby (talk · contribs) 19:05, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

Support per Godel2200 (include timeline) Flip^andFlopped ツ 20:04, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

Support per above. Almost daily, huge sections are updated. The Herald (Benison) (talk) 02:36, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

Support idk why the ever took it down it’s still massive Ion.want.uu (talk) 03:05, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

Support per above, and include timeline. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 09:13, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

• There are no dates in the article beyond March 21. It only takes 50 edits to go back to March 14. The article must be updated with current events? Stephen 11:00, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

Can't we do what we did with the Russian invasion of Ukraine? The Russian invasion of Ukraine article does not list many dates in March 2024, but that is fine as the Timeline of the Russian invasion of Ukraine (1 December 2023 – present) has daily updates. The situation is the same with the War in Sudan (2023-present) article, with the timeline getting near daily updates. Gödel2200 (talk) 12:51, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

For the last weeks that just seems to be a minor skirmish ticker, no significant events. Stephen 21:54, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

Some major events from the last few weeks include: RSF claiming capture of El Madina Arab (March 5), SLM-MM announcing it would fight the RSF/joining the conflict (March 24), SAF claiming capture of the Doha neighborhood in the city of Ondurman (March 26). Other days consist of airstrikes, vehicles destroyed, bridges being captured. Fileyfood500 (talk) 03:08, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Exactly, a lot of claims and very minor back and forth of low level conflict. Stephen 04:11, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

In this light, I am unclear about what makes the other 4 conflicts shown more significant. I reviewed the timeline from March for the Russia-Ukraine war, and found 3 instances where a village was reported to be captured. I otherwise found many reports of airstrikes and drones being shot down, and reports of single digit casualties. There is no doubt, there are significantly more policy updates and financial announcements, and the arms being used/destroyed are more expensive, however, it's not clear to me that the wealth of the combatants should set the distinction here. Fileyfood500 (talk) 04:32, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Oppose - ITN isn’t an armed conflicts ticker. 2A00:23C8:B00:AD01:106:C016:D59A:AA77 (talk) 14:26, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

Yes, but the only major things ongoing are armed conflicts. Lukt64 (talk) 15:30, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

Still doesn't make it a criteria. Ongoing is for when there is a continuous stream of blurb-worthy items; To me if we post this we might as well put up every other armed conflict. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 08:32, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Support This is a whole civil war going on in the 15th largest country by area on the planet, so there's not much reason it shouldn't be up in the current event section. Asjhsz (talk) 02:16, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Support, detailed entry, copiously sourced. -- SashiRolls ^{🌿 · 🍥} 08:51, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

(Closed) Ongoing: Masalit massacres

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Article: Masalit massacres (2023–present) (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/ethnic-killings-one-sudan-city-left-up-15000-dead-un-report-2024-01-19/
Credits:

• Nominated by Fileyfood500 (talk · give credit)

Fileyfood500 (talk) 04:38, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

Support Well cited, and an ongoing genocide is absolutely what ITN is for. Bremps... 06:52, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

• Support a few more cites can't hurt, but looks good enough for ongoing. The Herald (Benison) (talk) 07:35, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose, no recent news, not regularly updated, the last 50 edits go back to November last year. Some people need to educate themselves about what is needed for an article in ongoing. Stephen 07:38, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose - Per @Stephen. If we were to post this, it should be combined with the War in Sudan ongoing item. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 12:17, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose per above. The article does not mention any dates past January 2024, meaning this is not suitable for ongoing. Gödel2200 (talk) 12:59, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose per above. Ongoing should be for areas of the news that are getting near-daily coverage and updates (like the Ukraine/Russia war or the Gaza strip situation). Simply being a long running engagement doesn't meet the bar. --Masem (t) 13:09, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

  For this reason I’d also take off Myanmar until there are more developments 2A00:23C8:B00:AD01:106:C016:D59A:AA77 (talk) 15:34, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

The Myanmar civil war (2021-present) article is actually getting a lot of updates. See for example the Tenuous ceasefire and continued 2024 campaigns section, which lists many dates in March. Gödel2200 (talk) 15:56, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose Masalit massacres, Support War in Sudan. Lukt64 (talk) 13:46, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

Agreed, the War in Sudan (2023–present) article is getting frequent updates and encompasses this article. Fileyfood500 (talk) 17:10, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose per above. There was not a single edit for a month prior to the nomination. We should only add those articles which gets updated regularly. PrinceofPunjab^TALK 13:54, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

Support War in Sudan (2023–present) per Fileyfood500 Staraction (talk | contribs) 17:37, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

March 30

Portal:Current events/2024 March 30

March 30, 2024 (2024-03-30) (Saturday) Armed conflicts and attacks Syrian civil war 2024 Azaz bombing At least seven people are killed and 30 others are injured by a car bombing in Azaz, Aleppo Governorate, Syria, near the Turkish border. (Reuters) Israel–Hezbollah conflict, Iran–Israel conflict during the Syrian civil war Three UN observers and a translator are injured by a shell in southern Lebanon. (Reuters) Haitian crisis Gang leader Jimmy "Barbecue" Chérizier says that if armed groups under his command are included in talks for a future transitional government, then they would consider ceasing hostilities. (BBC News) Business and economy Japanese officials search a Kobayashi Pharmaceutical factory in Osaka after five deaths possibly linked to its dietary supplements. (Reuters) Law and crime A nightclub in Ede, Gelderland, Netherlands is evacuated of 150 patrons when a man claiming to be a suicide bomber hostages four people for seven hours. The suspect is arrested at the scene. (BBC News) Politics and elections Peruvian political crisis Peruvian President Dina Boluarte says that she will not resign following accusations of illicit enrichment after her residence was raided by police. (Reuters)

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RD: Bill Delahunt

Article: Bill Delahunt (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): ABC News
Credits:

• Nominated by Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Muboshgu (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Former House of Representatives, from 1997 to 2011.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 16:45, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

• Support - Well cited and notable. Article is in good shape too. The Herald (Benison) (talk) 02:38, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
• Support: An expansive, well-cited article that does not appear to be biased by any means. However I would like to note that every Wikipedia biographical article is considered notable enough for RD; nominations are based on quality and quantity of articles instead. Jmanlucas (talk) 21:02, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

RD: Chance Perdomo

Article: Chance Perdomo (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian, Variety, Hollywood Reporter
Credits:

• Nominated by Jaguarnik (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

British actor. Jaguarnik (talk) 23:28, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

• Support - Article in good shape and notable too. The Herald (Benison) (talk) 02:05, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
• Filmography needs sources as does his BAFTA nomination. -Ad Orientem (talk) 15:30, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

  His BAFTA nomination is cited, and the filmography is completely cited in the career section. Jaguarnik (talk) 19:41, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

Ongoing removal : Red Sea crisis

Article: Red Sea crisis (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item removal (Post)

Attacks have largely stopped. lukt64 (talk)

• I believe this situation is still developing - see [5] for instance. Staraction (talk | contribs) 00:18, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose - Still eventful. Article history shows almost daily additions of large sections. Maybe in a week or two, we can rethink. The Herald (Benison) (talk) 02:08, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose The article seems to be getting sufficient updates. It lists events taking place on 21, 24, 27, and 28 March, meaning it seems fine to leave it for now. Gödel2200 (talk) 13:04, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose the crisis is still going on and the article is updated almost daily. PrinceofPunjab^TALK 13:56, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose The article has frequent updates in March, including multiple events. Fileyfood500 17:52, 31, March 2024 (UTC)
• Support largely out of the news. AryKun (talk) 17:26, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose The article has had recent updates. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 23:04, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

RD: Les Twentyman

Article: Les Twentyman (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2024/mar/30/one-of-melbournes-big-characters-youth-worker-les-twentyman-dies-aged-76
Credits:

• Nominated by HiLo48 (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Australian youth worker and community activist. The article could do with some work and more sourcing. HiLo48 (talk) 06:58, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose on multiple uncited paragraphs, but that could change. Bremps... 11:39, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose for now. Notable, but like Bremps said, uncited sections present. Feel free to ping me if that's resolved. The Herald (Benison) (talk) 02:10, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

March 29

Portal:Current events/2024 March 29

March 29, 2024 (2024-03-29) (Friday) Armed conflicts and attacks Russian invasion of Ukraine Eastern Ukraine campaign The Telegraph reports Russia has captured approximately 195 square miles (510 km2) and is taking around 1,000 casualties per day since the start of the Second Russian winter campaign in October 2023. (The Telegraph) Russia strikes several power plants in Ukraine. (The Washington Post) Israel–Hezbollah conflict, Iran–Israel conflict during the Syrian civil war An Israeli airstrike targeting Aleppo International Airport in Syria kills 38 Syrian soldiers, seven Hezbollah fighters and seven Iran-backed militiamen. The incident marks the deadliest Israeli attack on Syria since 2021. (SOHR) Arts and culture Harvard University removes the binding of human skin from the 19th-century book Des destinées de l'âme by Arsène Houssaye, which has been kept in its library since 1934. (BBC News) International relations Japan–North Korea relations North Korean foreign minister Choe Son Hui says that North Korea will not hold any talks with Japan on any issue, including the issue of Japanese abductees in North Korea. This follows an announcement by Japanese prime minister Fumio Kishida in which he stated his desire to meet with North Korean supreme leader Kim Jong Un "without any preconditions". (Reuters) North Korea–Russia relations, North Korea and weapons of mass destruction Russia vetoes the continued monitoring of United Nations sanctions on the North Korean nuclear weapons program. (AP) Law and crime Polish President Andrzej Duda signs a law suspending the country's participation in the Treaty on Conventional Armed Forces in Europe. (TVP World) Pouria Zeraati, an Iranian dissident journalist working for IITV, is injured in a stabbing in London. He is hospitalized in stable condition. (BBC News)

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RD: Hans Joachim Meyer

Article: Hans Joachim Meyer (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): FAZ
Credits:

• Updated and nominated by Gerda Arendt (talk · give credit)
• Created by Charles01 (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

The last Minister of Culture of East Germany, and then for years Minister of Culture in Saxony in a unified Germany, and president of the Central Committee of German Catholics, originally a linguist teaching in Berlin. The article was mostly there, - I trimmed a bit: too much about general political development. Most of the many sources were still working. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:31, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

RD: Emilio Lora-Tamayo

Article: Emilio Lora-Tamayo (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): El Mundo, El País, ABC
Credits:

• Nominated by Gobonobo (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Spanish physicist and president of the Spanish National Research Council. gobonobo ^{+ c} 19:13, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

RD: Louis Gossett Jr.

Article: Louis Gossett Jr. (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): LA Times, Variety, Associated Press, Dark Horizons, The Hollywood Reporter
Credits:

• Nominated by 7&6=thirteen (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Estreyeria (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

7&6=thirteen (☎) 13:58, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose orange refimprove tag in article. Support article looks ready now! Staraction (talk | contribs) 14:08, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
• Not Ready for the usual reason. Also the wrong article is linked. It should be Louis Gossett Jr.. -Ad Orientem (talk) 14:33, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
  • Just fixed the link to the wikibio. --PFHLai (talk) 14:40, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
  • I've added references for everything that had a CN tag, if anyone doesn't mind taking a look. Estreyeria (talk) 20:42, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
• Support Looks good enough now to me - Jayson (talk) 00:03, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

• Weak oppose entire lead section is unreferenced. (Feel free to ping me when this is rectified) Aydoh8 (talk | contribs) 01:05, 30 March 2024 (UTC) Support looks good. Aydoh8 (talk | contribs) 04:52, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

@Aydoh8 Lead section doesn't necessarily need citations; see MOS:CITELEAD Staraction (talk | contribs) 04:01, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

Oh ok. Aydoh8 (talk | contribs) 04:50, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

• Support-Article looks good now. The Herald (Benison) (talk) 02:06, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

Meanwhile, 867,628 pageviews 7&6=thirteen (☎) 11:27, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

ITN is not here to consider page views. We are here to present topics with quality articles that are in the news. Masem (t) 16:13, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

• I was about to post but there are several items in the accolades section that are still unreferenced. --Tone 12:33, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

I spent a lot of time trying to address your concern. awardsandwinnder.com had most of the listings. Unfortunately, my prolonged effortst got thwarted twice. By an "edit conflict" and my retry ended badly, too because that is a blacklisted website. I give up.

We could simply get rid of that section, if that would help. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 14:31, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

If someone had access to these books (I don't) I'm guessing the problem is easily solved.

• Gossett, Louis, Jr.; Karas, Phyllis (2010). An Actor and a Gentleman. ISBN 9780470620946.{{cite book}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
• Murphy, Douglas (2014). Louis Gossett, Jr.: 133 Success Facts - Everything You Need to Know about Louis Gossett, Jr. Emereo Pty Limited. ISBN 9781488561672. ISBN 1488561672.

7&6=thirteen (☎) 14:51, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

Or we could delete the section from this article, and move it to Louis Gossett Jr. on screen and stage. Problem solved. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 16:06, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

That's sweeping the problem under the rug. The filmography page was already separated off well before this no, but we should never move awards off the page just because they can't be sourced. Masem (t) 16:11, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

Or you just selectively remove awards that cannot be sourced. If they cannot be sourced, notability of those awards may be so-so. Tone 16:14, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

Some of the unsourced awards do look barely notable, but things like the Daytime Emmys or the NAACP Image Awards are clearly notable awards that should not be removed for this reason. Masem (t) 16:33, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

• I've removed the obviously non-notable awards, and one which appears to be wrong, but the NAACP Awards are a struggle - I've sourced one so far... even his 1998 win is beyond me at the moment, not helped by the fact the website doesn't appear to have any history pages. Black Kite (talk) 17:12, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

There already is a source cited that documents the NAACP gave him awards. Doesn't go into much detail, but it is already there. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 13:19, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

• Awards moved Seems the awards previously in his bio were split to form List of awards and nominations received by Louis Gossett Jr.—Bagumba (talk) 09:29, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

• Sigh. We really shouldn't be creating a pointless extra article purely to get an article onto RD, I really wish people would stop doing it. Black Kite (talk) 10:33, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

The awards article is not "pointless" and is now cited. The biography article Louis Gossett Jr. is now completely updated and ready to go. But the ball is in your court. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 11:55, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

It 100% should be merged back into the main article, especially given there was no discussion prior to it being split. DarkSide830 (talk) 00:26, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

"there was no discussion" goes against WP:BEBOLD, but one is free to merge it back if they have specific reasons.—Bagumba (talk) 09:40, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

I certainly would move it back if it was completely sourced, but it isn't. It's still missing sources for the Daytime Emmies, most of the NAACP awards, and some CableACE awards (are they notable?). Black Kite (talk) 09:49, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

I'm down to two NAACP nominations. There's plenty of sources out there, but none of them are reliable. Black Kite (talk) 10:39, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

I haven't seen 7&6 provide a reason for doing so. The article is not so long, nor the section itself, to justify splitting. DarkSide830 (talk) 17:24, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Support no maintenace tags on the article. TheGreatestLuvofAll (talk) 13:08, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

There was a cn tag in the section "1998–2024: Later works" and I've just added two more. I'm going to have another look at sourcing that awards article. Black Kite (talk) 09:48, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Added one citation for "he provided the voice of Lucius Fox in The Batman animated series. [Lucius Fox in The Batman animated series" and removed the cn template. Deleted the "In 2008, he filmed the "Keep It Real" series of commercials for the Namibian lager Windhoek." which still would need a citation. All of the on line sources for that are wiki and fandom websites. I don't think it can be sourced from a WP:RS. So I think that it is unimportant, and deleted the unourced material. I think that was all the CN templates in the article. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 11:27, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

I was able to find a citation for the beer commercial, and put it back. In 2008, he filmed the "Keep It Real" series of commercials for the Namibian lager Windhoek. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 12:00, 2 April 2024 (UTC)thi

I did go to the three separate wikipedia articles on NAACP image awards. I took citations right out of those articles. Two of them have citations that are now on the blacklist. The third was not.

• ref name="Image1"//awardsandwinners.com/category/naacp-image-award/1998/|title=1998 Image Award Winners|website=Awards and Winners|access-date=August 2, 2016
• ref name="Image 2"//awardsandwinners.com/category/naacp-image-award/2005/|title=2005 Image Award Winners|website=Awards and Winners|access-date=August 2, 2016}}
• ref name=”Image 3"Couch, Aaron (February 1, 2013). "2013 Image Winners". The Hollywood Reporter. Retrieved August 2, 2016.
  

The third one worked. the first two did not, and you have to either go to the award wikipedia articles, or put in "https://" in front of the links. I could not save them otherwise.

I have tried diligently to find reliable sources. I know the complaints about IMDB. And I've also been through the Awards and Winners blacklist recently on another article. Holding up the main article because we are on a mission impossible for the awards article seem harsh to me. The awards article is now split off. We have a well plead article with 142 sources. Lots of effort went into this, and one ought not to punish Lou Gossett and his interested readers for the penurious reportage of these particular awards. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 19:00, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

• almost there - I actually like the awards split off. I see two citation tags, and believe that awards mentioned in the lead need some citation in this article. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:04, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

March 28

Portal:Current events/2024 March 28

March 28, 2024 (2024-03-28) (Thursday) Armed conflicts and attacks Myanmar civil war Operation 0307 The Kachin Independence Army captures the town of Lweje and its nearby border crossings in Kachin State, Myanmar, after junta forces abandoned their posts and fled across the border into China. (Irrawaddy) Business and economy Coal phase-out Slovakia's Slovenské elektrárne shuts down operations at its Vojany Power Station, the last coal-fired power plant in the country. (Euronews) Disasters and accidents 2023–24 South-West Indian Ocean cyclone season Cyclone Gamane makes landfall in Madagascar, killing at least eleven people and causing widespread flooding, according to local officials. (AP) Mamatlakala highway accident A bus carrying Christian pilgrims from Botswana crashes in Limpopo, South Africa, killing 45 people. (Reuters) A Russian Sukhoi Su-35 crashes into the Black Sea off Sevastopol, Crimea. The pilot is reported to have safely ejected. (Reuters) International relations Israel–Hamas war South Africa v. Israel The International Court of Justice, in a unanimous decision, orders Israel to allow humanitarian aid to enter the Gaza Strip unimpeded, warning that famine is already occurring. (Reuters) (The Guardian) Law and crime United States v. Bankman-Fried A federal court in the United States sentences Sam Bankman-Fried to 25 years in prison for stealing $8 billion in a cryptocurrency fraud. (Reuters) Russian interference in European politics The Czech information service reveals that Russia paid hundreds of thousands of euros through its "Voice of Europe" website to European politicians in order to influence European elections. (Parool)

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RD: Ross J. Anderson

Article: Ross J. Anderson (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Record, Duncan Campbell, Cambridge University Security Lab, Danny O'Brien, Alec Muffett, NetWars
Credits:

• Nominated by OwenBlacker (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

OwenBlacker (he/him; Talk) 22:10, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

• Support - Looks well cited and notable for RD. The Herald (Benison) (talk) 07:37, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

(Ready) RD: Tom Henry

Article: Tom Henry (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Associated Press, WANE-TV, FOX59
Credits:

• Nominated by Tails Wx (talk · give credit)
• Updated by 68.59.161.99 (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Mayor of Fort Wayne, Indiana from 2008 until his unfortunate death. The article needs work that I'll fix in the next few days. Thanks! :) ~ Tails Wx (🐾, me!) 18:18, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose Article has a bunch of unreferenced sentences. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 18:50, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

TDKR Chicago 101, the article is now well-sourced, no unsourced issues remain. Pinging for the update! :) ~ Tails Wx (🐾, me!) 02:11, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Support Issues have been fixed. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 16:32, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

RD: Thomas Mensah

Article: Thomas Mensah (engineer) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): GhanaWeb
Credits:

• Nominated by Heatrave (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Heatrave (talk) 10:07, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

Very weak oppose Only uncited parts are Corning Glass and education. Bremps... 11:41, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

(Posted) Limpopo bus plunge

Article: Mamatlakala highway accident (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A bus full of pilgrims falls from a bridge in Limpopo (pictured), killing all except an eight-year-old girl. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ A bus falls from a bridge in Limpopo (pictured), killing 45.
News source(s): Al Jazeera, BBC, DW, Le Monde, NYT, Sydney Morning Herald
Credits:

• Nominated by Andrew Davidson (talk · give credit)
• Created by Brudelman (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Chomik1129 (talk · give credit)

Article updated

For precedents, see Carberry collision, Kenya crash, Epidemiology and List. Andrew🐉(talk) 22:20, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose For all purposes this is a unfortunate traffic accident that has been associated to fault of the driver. This is the type of stuff we cover in list articles, but not standalone ones per NEVENTS, and thus not really ITN material. Masem (t) 22:38, 28 March 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose tragic event, but seemingly lacks any long-term impact 2A02:908:676:E640:99A1:1CB2:32ED:E1E6 (talk) 22:42, 28 March 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose No long-term impact, and local incidents like this are why we don't have a minimum death criterion. Chaotıċ Enby (talk · contribs) 23:52, 28 March 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose Provincial bus plunge per above This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 23:53, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

Support This is de-facto discrimination. If 45 people die after a bus falls off a bridge in the United States it would be ITN in hours. Lukt64 (talk) 23:55, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

To be fair, I would also disagree with having a US bus plunge on ITN. Chaotıċ Enby (talk · contribs) 00:02, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

The issue is that it is a road accident caused by only one fault (the driver) that is likely going to have little long term impact. This is exactly what NOTNEWS and NEVENT recommends from having standalone articles on. If it was a mutli-factor situation (such as a mega-car pileup) that might be something. But normal road-traffic accidents tend to not be topics that can be expanded on further. — Masem (t) 00:14, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

It's discrimination based upon what's typical for a country: if this was were in the USA but a mass shooting, this would never get ITN. But were it a mass shooting in any other country it would get on the front page within a few hours. This is because the former is shot down as "Oh, a tragedy, but all too common because it's a country where there are few to no safeguards against such a thing." The exact same logic is being applied here, but for some reason people get a lot more up in arms about it when the country in question isn't the USA. Nottheking (talk) 01:36, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

There is only 4 pages on bus crashes on South Africa. Lukt64 (talk) 03:01, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

If your intent was to argue that was evidence that bus crashes are rare in South Africa, that was a rather dubious selection. After all, Wikipedia is not a newspaper, and thus won't record every single item of news. Rather, the fact that there's clearly a lot of crashes (a casual research pass suggests hundreds of fatal bus crashes every year, with one high-profile study showing 4,001 fatal crashes involving trucks & buses across a 5-year period) and yet only four received an article seems to be a very strong indication that such events... Are just not notable in South Africa. Nottheking (talk) 05:31, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

I find it very hard to imagine a mass shooting in the US with 40+ deaths not being posted. In October 2023 we posted one with 19, and in 2022 we posted one with 10 (although there were racial/political elements increasing its notability). Jjamesryan (talk | contribs) 13:53, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

So the 2018 New Jersey bus crash wasn't nominated, the 2020 Pennsylvania Turnpike crash wasn't nominated, the Schoharie limousine crash was nominated for AFD, voted keep, and still not posted. What was posted though was a 2023 bus plunge in Panama, 2020 bus plunge in China, 2018 in Hong Kong, and one I think last year in Italy that I can't find right now among many others. Your assertion then that "if this had happened in the United States", as is always the case when claiming "American bias" is in fact unsubstantiated horse shit utterly devoid of any basis in reality and contrary to the normative behavior at ITN which is to ruthlessly suppress stories from or about the United States in some hysterial and misguided effort to fight "systemic bias" despite that not appearing anywhere at WP:ITN. If you want to do something useful, maybe review the wall of forever wars in the WP:ONGOING section and nominate for removal those which no longer meet the criteria for inclusion. --24.125.98.89 (talk) 11:25, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for the list of similar blurbs and articles in the past, this is very interesting and helpful for understanding precedent here. We've posted many more busplunges than I thought we had, and the death-count of this one is double many previous blurbs. I think your aggression towards Lukt64 is wholly unwarranted and unhelpful... ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 12:15, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

The outlier here is the Schoharie crash. I agree it probably should have been posted, but the New Jersey and Pennsylvania crashes had seven deaths between the two of them. They are simply not significant enough events to warrant posting. I have no hesitation in saying a crash with two casualties wouldn't have been posted no matter where in the world it happened. In fact, its occurrence in an English-speaking country is probably the only reason it has an article here. There's no sense in asserting anti-American bias because a non-American topic with 39 deaths was posted and an American article with 2 wasn't—and you were really quite disrespectful to an editor engaging in good faith while you were at it. Jjamesryan (talk | contribs) 14:12, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

To be fair, the first two didn't have as many deaths. Personisinsterest (talk) 14:25, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

May I add that this particular incident had a higher death toll than all of those you mentioned. Ollieisanerd (talk • contribs) 19:46, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

• Support - That's a remarkably high death toll for a single-vehicle accident. GenevieveDEon (talk) 23:57, 28 March 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose per above. The article does not indicate this will have a lasting impact. Gödel2200 (talk) 00:44, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
• Support the death toll is pretty significant for this news to be ignored. PrinceofPunjab^TALK 04:30, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose from what I've seen of it so far, it's been a tragic accident, but a comparative "blip" news-wise: no wider scandal or fallout, for instance. Instead, it appears to be the sad result of what (in this country) appears to be commonplace poorer safety standards, which result in accidents like these not being particularly noteworthy. (e.g, a bus was towing a trailer which would dramatically hinder its handling ability, making it unsafe for driving such dangerous mountain roads) To give an analogy, it's also why few mass shootings in the United States are given ITN treatment: particularly lax gun control laws in that country & the overall cultural environment make what would be a nation-defining tragedy in virtually any other country into a commonplace occurrence.

Note that were some of these elements to change (e.g, in the next day or two a major inquiry & public investigation gets touched off by the South African national government) then that could change the picture. But as it stands, there's no indication of that happening. Nottheking (talk) 05:24, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

• CLOSED Consensus to post is unlikely to develop. Aydoh8 (talk | contribs) 08:31, 29 March 2024 (UTC) (non-admin closure)
• RE-OPENED Sorry but half a day when there are multiple support votes and an ongoing discussion is way premature closing; we should let the discussion run its course at least and give a chance for editors to respond, discuss and other to have their say. I have re-opened as a result. Abcmaxx (talk) 09:26, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
• I think an blurb like this would live or die on the article's quality. It's an intense tragedy with a big impact on many people's lives in the region. However, I don't think the article has quite enough depth/length for a front-page feature right now. ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 10:47, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
• Support High death toll and international coverage. Anon has done a good job of showing precedent. Article looks fine to me. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 16:02, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

Support I think the news is quite notable enough and should be included on the main page. LiamKorda 17:36, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

• Support This is getting significant coverage. Government has indicated there will be further inquiry suggesting potential long-term impact. While the region has a poor traffic safety record, such large-scale incidents are uncommon. We blurbed the bus accident involving a hockey team in Canada a few years ago, so I don't see why we should not blurb this one. Kcmastrpc (talk) 18:45, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
• Support It's a notable accident with significant casualties and it's receiving some international coverage as well (fairly routine coverage, but enough). The article looks ok. I know some people will argue that they would also object if this happened in the U.S. but there's no doubt in my mind that this would get posted quickly. Less than a year ago we posted a bus crash in Canada with 15 deaths (which increased to 17 after posting). There was nothing particularly extraordinary about the Canadian bus crash, except for the fact that it happened in Canada. Johndavies837 (talk) 20:37, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
• Support per Johndavies. The Kip 21:42, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
• Support abnormal high amount of death. Ollieisanerd (talk • contribs) 22:29, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
• Weak oppose. Most news articles I've seen so far for this event (including those nom includes) mention the same things (as a result of the coverage being based off of AP and Reuters): how the crash occurred (including 8-year old girl who survived), some limited context (Easter celebrations, road safety in Africa), and government responses. None of the coverage I've seen goes into depth about any of those responses - in fact, there is only one article sourced in the article that breaks out of this pattern in its headline (once you click on that article, it goes back to the routine coverage). I believe this puts the coverage under routine, which per WP:DIVERSE decreases its notability.

Similar arguments can be made about the precedent cited in the comments for this nomination. However, precedent acts as a rule/guideline, and per Wikipedia:IAR / WP:OTHER, if the precedent is making the project worse (by rotating tragic accidents that, while horrible, don't have long-term impact per Chaotic Enby), it ought not to be followed. I don't agree with the posting of some of the preceding articles either, in particular Carberry highway collision.

That being said, this is a horrific accident that definitely calls for reforms to be made to infrastructure in South Africa for safety. If this event sparks such reform, or otherwise leads to further action, I would support the nomination. Staraction (talk | contribs) 05:09, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

There's an extensive in-depth follow-up in the NYT: No One Can Explain This Miracle. The BBC shows forensic investigation. So, while the many lesser news organisations are just repeating the wire story, the big ones are making more of it.

Andrew🐉(talk) 08:16, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

• Support. A bus crash with an unusually high number of deaths, receiving an unusually high amount of international attention, and with some novel elements (that it was a religious pilgrimage, that there is a "miraculous" sole survivor). BD2412 T 17:12, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

  We absolutely should not be posting stories because of those aspects (the religious pilgrimage or the sole survivor) as that's going along the lines of "won't someone think of the children"-begging rationale. Even if that's an aspect that the media focuses on, that's something we should be blind towards per NPOV policy. Masem (t) 19:56, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

• Strong support per Lukt64. Although pointing out systemic racism on wikipedia can be uncomfortable, it needs to be called out. We posted Carberry highway collision and Humboldt Broncos bus crash with minimal opposition. Both of these crashes were very similar on the facts: driver error resulting in a mass casualty incident, resulting in devastation to the local community affected + widespread public sympathy in the news. Interestingly though, even despite this crash having *more* casualties, all of a sudden there is mass opposition at ITN and even an effort to snow close the nomination. From where I am standing, the only easily discernible & substantive difference separating this bus crash from those aforementioned is that as opposed to white westerners dying, here it was Black South Africans. There is no good excuse for this to miss out on a blurb. Flip^andFlopped ツ 18:29, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

  We shouldn't have posted any of these, actually. Bus plunges, whether they happen in the West or in Africa, are not the most defining events in international news. I wasn't on ITN at the time to oppose the other two, but they shouldn't have been there either, and the fact that we posted a bus plunge 6 years ago doesn't mean we should keep posting them now. Chaotıċ Enby (talk · contribs) 19:29, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

  Yes, the problem is that we've become too lax on enforcing of NOTNEWS and NEVENT. Most land-based man-made traffic accidents like this will have little lasting effect because there's nothing to easily regulate or the like as there is with airlines, trains, or ships. But editors are rushing to create articles on every news event just because its in the news without the consideration if it will become an encyclopedic topic. We do have list articles that cover nearly every type of such events where these can be listed, but we don't need standalone articles on each of these, and by extension, feature in ITN. Masem (t) 19:50, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

  Fair enough - I respect your position that bus crashes generally should not go to ITN. I might even agree with you as a matter of general policy. With this being said, it is important not to put on colour blind glasses even as you make respectable higher-level arguments about the parameters of ITN - there's a reason for the sudden broader surge in opposition to this bus crash when there wasn't to the Canadian crashes I mentioned: subconscious bias/racism, even if unintentional. Given the overarching context and the fact that so many other bus crashes have been posted, it is highly questionable that we as a community would decide to draw the line in the sand here. To that end, I think torpedoing this nom would unnecessarily stoke perceptions of racial inequity on Wikipedia... something that would be harmful to our project generally. All just my humble opinion though. I appreciate both of your respectful responses. Cheers, Flip^andFlopped ツ 21:12, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

  I couldn't agree more with what's been said here. This is a drum I beat constantly, attempting to stem the tide of systemic bias, but it's usually just greeted with polite nods and somehow people don't even see how blinkered their worldviews actually are. For example, we blurbed Italian president Giorgio Napolitano's death (someone who wasn't even a national leader, given that the PM wields the power there), and ex-Canadian PM Brian Mulroney, there wasn't that much opposition, yet when Daniel arap Moi died - ruler of Kenya for almost a quarter of a century - my initial decision to post a blurb was met with an outcry and had to be pulled. And 10-year Tanzanian president Ali Hassan Mwinyi, again it was deemed that he almost certainly wasn't notable enough for a blurb. I'm not accusing anyone of bad faith, I just think we need to collectively open our minds a bit more than we have done up until now, and I'm extremely glad this story got posted, given the precedents of the other similar cases. It's important to remember that despite the editor base being overwhelmingly based in US/Europe/Australia etc, we're not just here to serve those communities, we're here for the global English community, and sometimes that means covering things that aren't deemed important enough in the Western media.  — Amakuru (talk) 20:42, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

• Posted Stephen 01:17, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

Late request for feedback This should have been called a 'crash' from the start regardless of nomination, as none of the reliable sources are calling it such (I went through each one) Please sound off on the talk page. Dreameditsbrooklyn (talk) 00:40, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Then you might have missed the NYT article linked in the nomination: "8-Year-Old Survives Bus Plunge Off Bridge That Left 45 People Dead". Most of the other articles use the verb "plunge", not of all them use the word "crash". ---Sluzzelin talk 00:47, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Almost all of them are running with 'crash' and I didn't argue against 'plunge' Dreameditsbrooklyn (talk) 00:52, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, I guess I don't understand what you meant by "such" in "as none of the reliable sources are calling it such". I gathered it couldn't be "crash". What were you referring to? ---Sluzzelin talk 00:55, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Almost all of the reliable sources are naming it as a 'crash' not 'accident' either in the headline or lede, and MOS says we should start with year, so 2024 xxxx crash Dreameditsbrooklyn (talk) 00:57, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

In fact on clicking through to each, I can't find the word "accident" used at all in the first nine citations for the article, only crash or sometimes plunge. Dreameditsbrooklyn (talk) 00:59, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

I understand now. I didn't know you were referring to the article title. Sorry for adding to the confusion! ---Sluzzelin talk 01:01, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

RD: Larry Lloyd

Article: Larry Lloyd (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Yahoo sportDaily star
Credits:

• Nominated by Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Football player needs some work.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 13:13, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose needs a lot more refs. Aydoh8 (talk | contribs) 08:33, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

RD: Mukhtar Ansari

Article: Mukhtar Ansari (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Times of India
Credits:

• Nominated by Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk · give credit)
• Updated by PrinceofPunjab (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Indian Politican.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 17:51, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose for now The article currently has emotive language which violates WP:NPOV. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 03:03, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

March 27

Portal:Current events/2024 March 27

March 27, 2024 (2024-03-27) (Wednesday) Armed conflicts and attacks Russian invasion of Ukraine Bombing of Kharkiv One person is killed, and sixteen others are injured, by Russian guided bomb strikes on Kharkiv, Ukraine. (Reuters) Disasters and accidents Leipzig FlixBus highway accident Four people are killed and 35 others are injured after a double-decker FlixBus overturns and crashes on the Bundesautobahn 9 near Leipzig, Saxony, Germany. (BBC News) At least four people are killed by several wildfires across the State of Mexico, Mexico. (Reuters) International relations Argentina–Venezuela relations Argentina orders the deployment of at least two gendarmerie to the Argentine embassy in Venezuela, where allies of opposition leader María Corina Machado have taken refuge amid increased tensions between the two countries. (Infobae) Law and crime 2024 Rockford stabbings Four people are killed and seven others are injured during a stabbing spree in Rockford, Illinois, United States. (AP) Capital punishment in Tunisia A court in Tunisia sentences four people to death and two others to life in prison for the 2013 murder of politician Chokri Belaid. (Al Jazeera) First Liberian Civil War The French judiciary sentences the former leader of the United Liberation Movement of Liberia for Democracy Kunti Kamara to 30 years in prison on charges of committing "crimes against humanity". (Barron's) Recognition of same-sex unions in Thailand The Thai House of Representatives approves a bill to legalize same-sex marriage by a vote of 400–10, with five abstentions. (AP via MSN News) Politics and elections 2024 Lithuanian presidential election A Special Investigative committee of the Seimas releases its findings, accusing President Gitanas Nausėda of receiving illegal support from the head of the State Security Department and for recruiting members of the Belarusian and Russian security services for his election campaign. Nauseda rejects the findings, accusing them of being politically motivated. (Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty Belarusian Service) 2024 Maltese presidential election Myriam Spiteri Debono is unanimously elected by the Maltese Parliament as the next President of Malta. (Times of Malta)

---

RD: George Gilbey

Article: George Gilbey (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [6] [7]
Credits:

• Nominated by 2A00:23EE:14E0:15A0:D9D4:EACA:4221:4590 (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

--2A00:23EE:14E0:15A0:D9D4:EACA:4221:4590 (talk) 22:23, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

Weak support Article is short, but what is there is of sufficient quality to post. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 02:50, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Joe Lieberman

Article: Joe Lieberman (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Yeshiva World New York Times
Credits:

• Nominated by Keeves (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Red 05 (talk · give credit) and Staraction (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: United States senator from Connecticut from 1989 to 2013. Nominee for vice president of the United States in the 2000 U.S. presidential election. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Keeves (talk • contribs) 22:00, 2024 March 27 (UTC)

• Support. One section is tagged as relying on sources too close to the subject, but that is hardly the same as being unsourced. BD2412 T 22:03, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
• Support Comprehensive, B-Class article of an extremely notable figure. Staraction (talk | contribs) 22:04, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
• Support Extremely notable figure in U.S. Politics. Article is of high enough quality as it is now for inclusion. Royal Autumn Crest (talk) 22:30, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
• Personal life section has several citation needed tags. Natg 19 (talk) 22:54, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

  Found sources for all outstanding citation needed tags in that section! Staraction (talk | contribs) 00:37, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

• Support Definitely a notable figure in American politics; article is not perfect but sufficiently ready for RD. Flip^andFlopped ツ 01:14, 28 March 2024 (UTC)
• I was considering posting this however, there is an orange tag in the DHS section. -Ad Orientem (talk) 01:34, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

  @Ad Orientem: I have addressed the orange tag in the DHS section and added diversified sources (NYT, Bloomberg). Assuming no other issues, I think article is ready for RD. Cheers, Flip^andFlopped ツ 02:30, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

  @Flipandflopped There are a number of referencing gaps that I have tagged in the article. Having edited the page, alas I am now WP:INVOLVED, so I can't post the article once it has been improved. -Ad Orientem (talk) 02:47, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose - Too many dead refs. Just randomly wanted to check some refs. 2 of the first 3 refs are completely dead. I haven't checked the rest. Hard to determine the quality of the article when its statements can't be verified. 51.154.145.205 (talk) 12:12, 28 March 2024 (UTC)
• Support article quality meets threshold for posting Kcmastrpc (talk) 12:36, 28 March 2024 (UTC)
• Support Democratic Vice Presidential candidate in 2000 election and long running Senator and notable for being a key figure in many hot topic political issues in the 1990's and 2000's. Harizotoh9 (talk) 14:37, 28 March 2024 (UTC)
• Support He was the Democratic VP nominee in 2000 and was a long-serving senator who influenced major legislation like the Affordable Care Act and the repeal of Don't Ask Don't Tell. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JohnAdams1800 (talk • contribs) 16:02, 28 March 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose His notability is not a requirement for him to be included in the RD, as it's already presumed by having an article on Wikipedia. Many CN tags and two subsections are orange-tagged. _-_Alsor (talk) 19:33, 28 March 2024 (UTC)
• Procedural oppose per above This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 23:55, 28 March 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose It's actually a very good article, and none of it is contentious, but desperately needs more sources in order to make it reliable. I added more "citation needed" tags. Abcmaxx (talk) 13:00, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

  I've fixed 30/48 citation needed tags made since this post, but have to attend to other business now. Hopefully someone can pick up from here. Staraction (talk | contribs) 15:56, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

• Comment @Alsoriano97: @Orbitalbuzzsaw: @Abcmaxx: I've significantly updated the citations in the article. Let me know if it is good enough to post now or if I should add more citations. Staraction (talk | contribs) 02:38, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
  • Further to Staraction's comment, all citation needed tags are now resolved, either by the addition of citations, or by the removal of persistently uncitable claims to the talk page. BD2412 T 17:14, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
• Posted. I see zero {cn} tags in this wikibio at this time. I still object to the bullet-points under Committee assignments for wikibios for US senators (prefer prose with more details on what they do and when), but I gave up on that a while ago. --PFHLai (talk) 08:39, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

(Posted to RD) Blurb/RD: Daniel Kahneman

Article: Daniel Kahneman (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Bloomberg, Washington Post, The New York Times
Credits:

• Nominated by Martinevans123 (talk · give credit)
• Updated by TDKR Chicago 101 (talk · give credit), Sunshineisles2 (talk · give credit) and Ktin (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

• Nobel Prize winning author, psychologist and economist. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:22, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
• Almost there: very few statements lack a citation. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:14, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

  rather than discussing blurb or not, could we please have citations for at least two facts missing one? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:52, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

  Thanks, Gerda. You might want to add some tags to direct effort. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:12, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

  No, Martin, I hate tags. I saw two things:

  1. "They would continue to publish together until the end of Tversky's life, but the period when Kahneman published almost exclusively with Tversky ended in 1983, when he published two papers with Anne Treisman, his wife since 1978."
  2. Both paragraphs under "Focusing illusion" end without citation. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:40, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

  Ok, thanks. I also saw the first and thought it would be self-evident from his list of publications. Maybe not. Those other paragraphs are worth a look. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:43, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

  So I repositioned the citations for "Focusing illusion" (although primary). Alas, the article has only a list of his books, not a full list of all his publications (I'm assuming that might be quite extensive). Martinevans123 (talk) 11:00, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

  Thank you, but how is it self-edvident that she was his wife from a certain year? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:38, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

  Yes, that bit not self evident from a list of publications, but the year is given in the infobox and in "Personal life" where it is sourced? Martinevans123 (talk) 12:46, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

  This comes sooner. You could just duplicate the ref from personal, and had obliged to "have a ref at the end of each paragraph". --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:52, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

• Blurb when ready. Ktin (talk) 18:38, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

If this is to be blurbed, there should be a clear section besides a few lines in the lede to explain why he was important though impact and or legacy. Just being awarded including a Nobel isn't sufficient for a blurb. Masem (t) 19:12, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

If only we were to apply the same standard (last sentence) to the PM of Ruritania. Nfitz (talk) 22:48, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

We don't automatically blurb former PMs when they die either. Chaotıċ Enby (talk · contribs) 19:05, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

• Support RD, Oppose blurb I remember reading his work in school, especially his collaborations with Amos Tversky. That does not rise to the super-high level we need for a blurb. I think quality is sufficient for RD now, the few statements lacking citation don't need to hold this article up long. – Muboshgu (talk) 19:14, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
• Support RD He was 90 and died in Parts Unknown from nothing of note. "Variants of utility" doesn't quite ring true to me, but it's footnoted and probably written for someone else. The two chunks in "Focusing illusion" could easily be deleted if backing them up with a reliable source or two proves difficult. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:31, 28 March 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose blurb Old man dies. Noah, AA^Talk 01:33, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

  In all seriousness, it doesnt rise to the level of significance for a blurb. Noah, AA^Talk 02:13, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

  I find statements like Old man dies when used as a comment in a discussion like this, to be extremely disrespectful. Ktin (talk) 02:53, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

  When someone suggests a blurb that would relay exactly how old a man was when he died, it seems only fair to doubt the significance of that central fact. There's really nothing else to oppose. The age at death is the news item in question. InedibleHulk (talk) 04:18, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

  No, the blurb is the summary of the news item which is the death of the person. Age is additional information. Ktin (talk) 04:35, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

  Sure, that's why it's in all the headlines provided above and why no such prior blurb has added a place or cause. I hope the small print means you're kidding. If not, maybe propose an ageless blurb that rather focuses on how the field of behavioural economics has been affected by the loss of its bedrock (or something RD can't say). InedibleHulk (talk) 05:03, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

  Small font because this conversation is irrelevant. Clearly you can think of a blurb which doesn’t include age. Go figure. Ktin (talk) 06:32, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

  There was a recent blurb that was about an old man dying. Traumnovelle (talk) 08:38, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

  I don't think there's ever been a moment in the history of ITN when "we recently blurbed an old person's death" didn't ring true. Kurtis ^(talk) 16:40, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

  If you mean old man Mulroney, yeah, quite unfortunate. He was 84. At least in that case, further information did appear for a week or so in his death section and funeral article. Kahneman's article doesn't even have a death section. We could link the whole article, in bold, with a photo and note of how old he was. But I don't think that update is ever going to tell a reader more, so there's really no point in following along. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:43, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

  Are you calling his death unfortunate or the fact it got blurbed? Traumnovelle (talk) 23:49, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

  Both (in different ways, of course). InedibleHulk (talk) 23:56, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

• Comment. The current criteria for blurbing deaths allows for major figures in any domain. The question to ask is -- as someone who served as the bedrock of behavioral economics as a field of study, was Kahneman a major figure in this area. My thinking is yes. Ktin (talk) 02:58, 28 March 2024 (UTC)
• Support blurb Certainly at the top of his field, one of the most influential economists of his time, and Nobel laureate. Also somewhat of a household name due to his bestselling book Thinking, Fast and Slow which encompasses much of his research. Davey2116 (talk) 03:48, 28 March 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose blurb, a blurb on this would be an embarrassment to the Main Page. The nominator should refrain from making blurb suggestions going forward. Abductive (reasoning) 07:29, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

  Not my suggestion. I'd say it was borderline. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:03, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

  Even if it was your suggestion, and even if said suggestion would be "an embarrassment to the Main Page", that doesn't give anyone the right to cast aspersions against you or anyone else over a difference of opinion. Kurtis ^(talk) 16:33, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

  Perhaps I'll just make blurb suggestions going backwards. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:37, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

  Just as long as you're okay with receiving credit in a future that never comes. Kurtis ^(talk) 16:42, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

  Should make RD a lot more prdictable and won't take me a minute. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:00, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

  Seeing as a blurb has been receiving at least a modicum of support, I'd say it's not an unreasonable proposal. Kurtis ^(talk) 16:29, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

  Yes, am tempted to change my mind. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:31, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose blurb Great thinker and theorist, but not really for a blurb. I included insights from the prospect theory in my master thesis some ten years ago, and the true brain who delivered that theory was Amos Tversky. Not to belittle Kahneman's work, but he came up with ideas regarding cognitive biases that Tversky managed to mathematicise and bring to the general audience. Moreover, his contributions to behavioural economics are not seminal enough as John Forbes Nash Jr's contributions to game theory (in fact, the cornerstone in behavioural economics that most other theories descend from is the bounded rationality, and the real equivalent to Nash in behavioural economics would be Herbert A. Simon). There are also other psychologists who independently developed mainstream theories with wide applications to economics, such as Gerd Gigerenzer with his work on heuristics, so Kahneman's work isn't really a starting point for anyone working in the field. That being said, the statements that he was on top of economics as a field are quite wide off the mark.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 08:36, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

• Support blurb Just running his name alone in RD would be insufficient and the article seems quite comprehensive and worthy. The bottom blurb which would be replaced is two weeks old now and so is stale. It's also less interesting -- just another routine election. Andrew🐉(talk) 13:13, 28 March 2024 (UTC)
• The few expansions of the past 24 hours have been nice, but I do believe we need more expansion on this article before a blurb is appropriate. In particular, I think more details on his later life and death would be necessary for a blurb. ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 13:23, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose blurb I do not think this is blurb worthy as I believe we should only blurb when the death is notable enough. PrinceofPunjab^TALK 15:34, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

• Comment. Is there anything pending for this article to go to RD? Please can someone tag / annotate accordingly if there are any editor actions needed? Ktin (talk) 18:45, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

  Joseph2302 has asked for all items in the Notable contributions section to be given sources. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:53, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

  Bit of an overkill to add references to that section. Should ideally be treated like the "See also" section. Nevertheless, I went ahead and added references to that section. So, we should be good there now. Marking ready. Ktin (talk) 01:49, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

• Support RD, oppose blurb. If we have to explain who the person is in the blurb, they really shouldn't be blurbed. Chaotıċ Enby (talk · contribs) 19:04, 28 March 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose blurb not a serving head of state or government and the manner of the death is not notable This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 23:56, 28 March 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose blurb His death was not notable in and of itself, and there is only a two sentence update about it on his page. Gödel2200 (talk) 00:38, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
• Posted to RD Stephen 02:17, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

March 26

Portal:Current events/2024 March 26

March 26, 2024 (2024-03-26) (Tuesday) Armed conflicts and attacks Insurgency in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa 2024 Shangla bombing A suicide bomber attacks a bus in Shangla District, Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, Pakistan, killing five Chinese workers and their Pakistani driver. (AP) Syrian civil war Iran–Israel conflict during the Syrian civil war The Israeli Air Force bombs Deir ez-Zor Governorate, Syria, killing an Iranian Quds Force officer and 15 other militants. (AP) Israel–Hezbollah conflict Israeli warplanes launch airstrikes against Hezbollah targets near the towns of Ras Baalbek and Hermel in Baalbek-Hermel Governorate, Lebanon, killing at least three Hezbollah members. (Reuters) Disasters and accidents Francis Scott Key Bridge collapse The Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, Maryland, United States, collapses after the container ship Dali strikes a bridge column, causing multiple vehicles to fall into the water below. (CBS News) President Joe Biden says that the federal government will pay for the full cost of rebuilding the bridge. (WMAR-TV) Law and crime Abortion in the United States The US Supreme Court announces that it will hear oral arguments on whether to restrict access to mifepristone, a commonly-used abortion pill. (BBC News) The United Kingdom's High Court of Justice grants WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange a stay of extradition to the United States, and demands that the US not consider the death penalty against Assange if he is sent to the US to face espionage charges. (AP) Former Kyrgyzstan deputy Raimbek Matraimov is detained in Baku, Azerbaijan, and is extradited to Kyrgyzstan. (AKIPress) Politics and elections 2024 United States presidential election Robert F. Kennedy Jr. 2024 presidential campaign Robert F. Kennedy Jr. announces while campaigning that his Vice Presidential pick will be attorney Nicole Shanahan. (NBC News)

---

(Posted) RD: Brigid Kelly

Article: Brigid Kelly (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): USA Today, The Cincinnati Enquirer
Credits:

• Nominated by Blaylockjam10 (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Jkaharper (talk · give credit) and Blaylockjam10 (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

American politician in Ohio. -- Blaylockjam10 (talk • contribs) 21:43, 2024 March 30 (UTC)

• The stubby wikibio currently has only 260 words of prose. The coverage of her political career seems to end at her election victory in becoming a member of the Ohio state legislature, with no info on what she did while in office, nor what she did afterwards (the intro mentions her becoming a county auditor...) and before she died. Please expand this wikibio. --PFHLai (talk) 20:37, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose Article is feeble; sourcing is too. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 18:31, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
• @PFHLai: I’ve expanded the article. Could you take another look at it? Blaylockjam10 (talk) 22:25, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
• Posted Stephen 22:38, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

(Reviewers needed) RD: Slađana Milošević

Article: Slađana Milošević (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Sarajevo Times, BBC Serbian
Credits:

• Nominated by 240F:7A:6253:1:74BA:3EEC:4DCE:E68A (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Likely well sourced. 240F:7A:6253:1:74BA:3EEC:4DCE:E68A (talk) 05:50, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Richard Serra

Article: Richard Serra (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian CNN
Credits:

• Nominated by Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Jkaharper (talk · give credit), Carlstak (talk · give credit), Ppt91 (talk · give credit) and Kelisi (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

American sculptor.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 06:41, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

• Support. A solid B-class article on a major figure. The "Collections" and "Awards" sections have an improperly formatted citation that goes to a dead PDF, and it's not clear why some of the images of his work are fair use while others are not (perhaps that just reflects different freedom of panorama rules for sculptures in different countries), but I do not see these as blocking issues. Sdkb ^talk 21:01, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
• Support per Sdkb. Flip^andFlopped ツ 01:00, 28 March 2024 (UTC)
• Support Well-developed article. interesting. Lots of sources. No visible gaps. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 18:29, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
• Posted – robertsky (talk) 15:38, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Swami Smaranananda

Article: Swami Smaranananda (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Times of India
Credits:

• Nominated by Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Jkaharper (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Hindu Monk.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 06:34, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

• Posted Stephen 22:35, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

(Posted) Francis Scott Key Bridge collapse

Article: Francis Scott Key Bridge collapse (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Francis Scott Key Bridge collapses (bridge pictured) after it is hit by a container ship at Baltimore, Maryland. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The Francis Scott Key Bridge (pictured) collapses after it is hit by a container ship at Baltimore, Maryland.
News source(s): BBC News Online
Credits:

• Nominated by Mjroots (talk · give credit)
• Created by HAL333 (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Queen of Hearts (talk · give credit)

Article updated

Major US bridge collapse. Potential for a high number of casualties. Mjroots (talk) 08:06, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

• Support but wait unlikely to not be a mass casualty event, but article is too short at the moment and information is lacking. Juxlos (talk) 08:12, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
• Support absolutely. LilianaUwU ^{(talk / contributions)} 08:14, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
• Support Breaking news. The target article is disputed so ITN can help with navigation. Andrew🐉(talk) 08:15, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

  I closed the merge proposal as it was getting no support. Andrew🐉(talk) 10:12, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

• Support on notability; article needs to be fleshed out. ^Queenof_Hearts 08:18, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
• Alt1 is good, but needs work. ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 08:23, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
• Support Alt1 since it links to the reasonably developed article on the bridge itself. The collapse article is under construction. Abductive (reasoning) 08:26, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
• Wait – Both articles are in rough shape and the situation is still developing. SounderBruce 08:31, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
• Support once it's ready. Kiwiz1338 (talk) 09:16, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose No fatalities have been reported so far. _-_Alsor (talk) 09:19, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
  • Human lives are not the price demanded by an ITN.--Jasper Deng (talk)
    • There is no WP:MINIMUMDEATHS threshold. Mjroots (talk) 10:03, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

  ITN should not depend on fatalities. It should depend on how widely covered it is. Also, a disaster can be a disaster without fatalities. For example, ITN posted the Norfolk Southern train derailment back in February 23, 2023. No one died in that event. Djprasadian (talk) 14:33, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose. Thankfully no deaths, so doesn't rise to the bar of an ITN entry for a disaster.  — Amakuru (talk) 09:32, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

  Moving to support per below. I guess the infrastructure angle is interesting and newsworthy too.  — Amakuru (talk) 09:57, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

• Neutral, leaning support - but it is certainly instructive to see how people vote and argue on this topic, compared to similar cases elsewhere in the world. GenevieveDEon (talk) 09:46, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

• ITN has posted several bridges elsewhere such as India and Turkey in 2022. Andrew🐉(talk) 10:18, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

I know, and while I'd rather not see this feed run entirely on precedents, those are relevant points in favour of posting. But there is nonetheless a persistent strain of argument from various quarters that diminishes mass casualty events outside Europe and North America. In this case, all I'm arguing for is modest caution. This is a developing story, and it's likely to be posted for good reason. GenevieveDEon (talk) 10:25, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

One of those had 100 deaths and the other was the world's longest suspension bridge. No opinion on this nom, but those aren't good comparisons. AryKun (talk) 10:27, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

You might equally say that one was just a footbridge and the other had no deaths. The best comparison is with the current bottom blurb which would be replaced by this one. That's the Portuguese election which was over two weeks ago and so is longer in the news. Andrew🐉(talk) 10:48, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

I wouldn't care if it was a cartoon log over a canyon that collapsed if the number of deaths was 135 in this instance. Great job entering a discussion where people are talking about arguments that diminish "mass casualty events outside Europe and North America" and doing exactly that. AryKun (talk) 14:41, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

For the talk page analysis, there's a table of noms. This currently lists 10 disasters/natural disasters. Six of these were in South Asia but none at all in Europe or the US. So, this is the first US one that we've had for a while. Andrew🐉(talk) 17:36, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

South Asia has roughly six times the US's population and way more creaky infrastructure, it obviously has more mass casualty events. Just because American newspapers tend to feature American and non-American events as their headline about the same number of times doesn't mean that the US is magically as important as the rest of the world combined. My comment above was specifically about your "just a footbridge" comment; if 135 people died in the Anglosphere because they sank into the sidewalk, you wouldn't be making the same flippant remarks. AryKun (talk) 18:38, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

Further discussion continues at another bridge incident: Limpopo bus plunge. Andrew🐉(talk) 08:52, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

• Support Significant destruction of a major engineering structure with international coverage. Alt1 preferred but either are ok. yorkshiresky (talk) 09:48, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
• Support -- this is awful. Likely 20 people have fallen in the water and at this point they have likely died of hypothermia. It's horrible. --Rockstone^{Send me a message!} 10:05, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
• Support - major story which has been given a dedicated live feed on BBC, and with 20+ people missing it's just as presumptuous for us to assume there are no deaths as it is for us to assume there are. – filelakeshoe (t / c) 🐱 10:12, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

And yet when twenty people are confirmed dead in a transportation accident in the Global South, the usual suspects turn up here with tired arguments about 'bus plunges'. I'm leaning more and more in favour of this story being posted - but let's not kid ourselves that ITN !voters treat all such cases fairly. GenevieveDEon (talk) 10:15, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

That's to miss the key thing being noted, which is how atypical such an event is. When striving to take efforts to avoid being tunnel-visioned, one would notice (for instance) that a mass shooting event rarely makes ITN... If it occurred in the United States. However, mass shootings elsewhere on the globe very readily get posted, because they are unusual for those countries. So to prescribe one effect as purely one form of bias is to ignore the reality of the broader picture. Nottheking (talk) 10:32, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

That's a fair point. It's certainly not my intention to claim this is a universal problem with a single right solution. I would just like to see some fairness. GenevieveDEon (talk) 10:43, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

• Support This is definitely a very unusual disaster of high encyclopedic value which sends a clear message that the infrastructure built in the 1970s may not be sufficient to accommodate the current transport needs carried on the modern watercraft.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 11:07, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
• Support: it is now clear that this is a major event, and the article is good enough to stand on the front page given the high value of putting the event there. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 11:23, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
• Support Article quality is only going to improve and this is very clearly ITN. Kcmastrpc (talk) 11:36, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
• Support. A major and unusual infrastructure disaster, the artticle is in good enough shape already. Nsk92 (talk) 11:49, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
• Support Major piece of infrastructure involved, completely destroyed, and making world headlines. 108.7.44.20 (talk) 11:51, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
• Support Highly unusual event that is receiving widespread global news coverage. Flip^andFlopped ツ 12:45, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
• Support on notability due to the extreme abnormality of this event. Gödel2200 (talk) 12:51, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
• Support Abnormal, outstanding event. Article is good. -Bedivere (talk) 13:06, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
• Support Good job on the article, and the international press coverage shows there may be an effect on commerce. Kablammo (talk) 13:37, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
• Support Not only is the impact on shipping and traffic notable, the media seems to be taking this by storm. Gøøse060 (talk) 14:07, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
• Support Per above, Event is notable despite lack of major casualties, Editor 5426387 (talk) 14:17, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

Support Major infrastructure collapse. Biggest headline on CNN and BBC. Djprasadian (talk) 14:28, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

Support fucking crazy shit Dreameditsbrooklyn (talk) 14:39, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

• Posted Alt 1. Courcelles (talk) 14:43, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

  • Just found out Commons is firewalled at my location's network, so any sysop please feel free to copy over the image, protect, and change to the bridge. Thanks.

  Courcelles (talk) 14:45, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

  You beat me to posting. I've added two bridge images to the protection page. – Muboshgu (talk) 14:47, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

I'm not opposing the posting, but MUST comment on the international coverage. I'm in Australia. Our media LOVES content from the USA, and LOVES dramatic imagery. This was a certainty to get coverage in Australia's news. That doesn't make it more important than a less dramatic and more deadly event, of which we have no pics, in a third world country. HiLo48 (talk) 22:42, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia can only report on what it is given. --Rockstone^{Send me a message!} 23:00, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia must always be vigilant to not allow its systemic biases to get in the way of balanced reporting. HiLo48 (talk) 00:17, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

Comment: Can an admin change the image on the mainpage to ? It illustrates the disaster better. Bremps... 23:20, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

Add it to the image protection queue (see navbox at top of page) and give a bot about an hour to apply protection. Masem (t) 23:24, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

Can't; I don't have enough permissions to edit that page.

Or was that an instruction to an admin? Bremps... 23:53, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

I forgot that the image prot. page is admin protected, and couldn't easily edit it from my phone. The image has since been added and protected, and I have swapped the photo. — Masem (t) 04:28, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

• Post-posting support per above. Six people are presumed dead in this bridge collapse. Davey2116 (talk) 04:21, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

• Question: should the (presumed) 6 fatalities now be added to the blurb? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:42, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

  I think it should be added. Jbvann05 19:30, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

@Admins willing to post ITN: Also, this could be asked at WP:ERRORS for a faster response. Natg 19 (talk) 05:01, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

It's best asked here, it's already been removed from Errors as it's a change to an existing blurb. I personally don't see the need to mention deaths as that number is not something that would normally drive a posting. Stephen 05:03, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

I agree with Stephen. In the big scheme of things, the fatalities are not what makes this event notable. Therefore, it's not necessary to expand the blurb for this. Schwede66 07:33, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

Thirded, Stephen and Schwede. DarkSide830 (talk) 02:55, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

References

Nominators often include links to external websites and other references in discussions on this page. It is usually best to provide such links using the inline URL syntax [http://example.com] rather than using <ref></ref> tags, because that keeps all the relevant information in the same place as the nomination without having to jump to this section, and facilitates the archiving process.

For the times when <ref></ref> tags are being used, here are their contents: