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Pages recently put under extended-confirmed protection

Report

Pages recently put under extended confirmed protection (43 out of 7868 total) () WATCH Page Protected Expiry Type Summary Admin 2014 Jerusalem synagogue attack 2024-06-19 21:08 indefinite edit,move Contentious topic restriction: WP:ARBPIA Ymblanter Shadia Abu Ghazaleh 2024-06-19 19:30 indefinite edit,move Arbitration enforcement WP:ARBPIA; requested at WP:RfPP Elli Battle of Bucha 2024-06-19 12:55 indefinite edit,move Wikipedia:General sanctions/Russo-Ukrainian War; requested at WP:RfPP Elli Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/AXXXXK 2024-06-19 08:02 indefinite create Repeatedly recreated ToBeFree J Williams 2024-06-19 04:09 indefinite edit,move Persistent sock puppetry; requested at WP:RfPP Elli Writers Against the War on Gaza 2024-06-18 22:02 indefinite edit,move Contentious topic restriction: per RFPP and ARBPIA Daniel Case 2024 pro-Palestinian protests on university campuses in the Netherlands 2024-06-18 21:53 indefinite edit,move Contentious topic restriction: per RFPP and ARBPIA Daniel Case Municipal resolutions for a ceasefire in the Israel–Hamas war 2024-06-18 21:48 indefinite edit,move Contentious topic restriction: per RFPP and ARBPIA Daniel Case University of Texas at Austin stabbing 2024-06-18 21:41 indefinite edit,move Contentious topic restriction: per RFPP and ARBPIA Daniel Case Palestinian sports during the 2023-2024 Israeli invasion of Gaza 2024-06-18 20:40 indefinite edit,move Contentious topic restriction: per RFPP and ARBPIA Daniel Case List of Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel in 2024 2024-06-18 20:38 indefinite edit,move Contentious topic restriction: WP:ARBPIA Ymblanter Noam Chomsky 2024-06-18 20:29 2024-06-21 20:29 edit Violations of the biographies of living persons policy: Reports of his death have been greatly exaggerated Muboshgu Reaction of university donors during Israel–Hamas war 2024-06-18 20:28 indefinite edit,move Contentious topic restriction: per RFPP and ARBPIA Daniel Case European Union reactions to the Israel–Hamas war 2024-06-18 20:22 indefinite edit,move Contentious topic restriction: per RFPP and ARBPIA Daniel Case Draft:Akash Anand 2024-06-18 19:30 indefinite create Repeatedly recreated TomStar81 TJ Monterde 2024-06-18 18:16 indefinite create Repeatedly recreated; requested at WP:RfPP Elli Template:Getalias2/core 2024-06-18 18:00 indefinite edit,move High-risk template or module: 2508 transclusions (more info) MusikBot II Template:Getalias2 2024-06-18 18:00 indefinite edit,move High-risk template or module: 2511 transclusions (more info) MusikBot II Jain temples, Pavagadh 2024-06-18 10:32 2024-07-18 10:32 edit,move Persistent vandalism Black Kite Rick and Morty: Go to Hell 2024-06-18 02:13 indefinite create Repeatedly recreated NinjaRobotPirate Rick and Morty – Go to Hell 2024-06-18 02:11 indefinite create Repeatedly recreated NinjaRobotPirate Rick and Morty: Heart of Rickness 2024-06-18 02:10 indefinite create Repeatedly recreated NinjaRobotPirate Rick and Morty: Crisis on C-137 2024-06-18 02:09 indefinite create Repeatedly recreated NinjaRobotPirate Rick and Morty: Infinity Hour 2024-06-18 02:08 indefinite create Repeatedly recreated NinjaRobotPirate Sukhoi Su-57 2024-06-17 20:07 indefinite edit,move Community sanctions enforcement: per RFPP and WP:RUSUKR Daniel Case Meragram 2024-06-17 17:18 indefinite create Repeatedly recreated Ivanvector Union Council Khot 2024-06-17 17:17 indefinite edit,move Persistent sock puppetry Ivanvector User talk:Aviram7/Editnotice 2024-06-17 16:20 indefinite edit,move user request UtherSRG Malcolm Vaughn 2024-06-17 05:48 indefinite create Repeatedly recreated Ad Orientem Talk:Malcolm Vaughn 2024-06-17 05:47 indefinite create Repeatedly recreated A7 article Ad Orientem Timeline of the 2014 Gaza War 2024-06-17 02:28 indefinite edit,move Arbitration enforcement; requested at WP:RfPP Elli DWYE-FM 2024-06-16 21:40 indefinite create Liz DWIP-FM 2024-06-16 21:39 indefinite create Liz Calls for a ceasefire during the Israel–Hamas war 2024-06-16 20:38 indefinite edit,move Contentious topics enforcement for WP:CT/A-I; requested at WP:RfPP Daniel Quinlan Hashim Safi Al Din 2024-06-16 19:44 indefinite edit,move raising to ECP as requested Daniel Case Module:Category disambiguation 2024-06-16 18:00 indefinite edit,move High-risk template or module: 2503 transclusions (more info) MusikBot II Template:Category disambiguation 2024-06-16 18:00 indefinite edit High-risk template or module: 2502 transclusions (more info) MusikBot II J.Williams 2024-06-16 14:04 indefinite edit,move Persistent sock puppetry Girth Summit J. Williams 2024-06-16 14:03 indefinite edit,move Persistent sock puppetry Girth Summit Naznin Khan 2024-06-16 05:30 2024-09-16 05:30 create Repeatedly recreated Billinghurst 2024 University of Pennsylvania pro-Palestine campus encampment 2024-06-16 04:56 indefinite edit,move Arbitration enforcement WP:PIA Chetsford User:Ajaynaagwanshi 2024-06-16 04:02 2024-06-23 04:02 create deleted as inappropriate is exactly that, do not redo the same editing Billinghurst Wars of the Deccan Sultanates 2024-06-15 22:48 indefinite move reinstate earlier protection due to move warring Graeme Bartlett

Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)#Petition to amend the arbitration policy: discretionary sanctions and deletions

I created a petition at Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)#Petition to amend the arbitration policy: discretionary sanctions and deletions that proposes amending Wikipedia:Arbitration/Policy to say that the Arbitration Committee's discretionary sanctions must not authorise the deletion, undeletion, moving, blanking, or redirection of pages in any namespace. The petition part of the arbitration policy amendment process requires a petition signed by at least one hundred editors in good standing. The ratification process then begins and requires majority support with at least one hundred editors voting in support.

There is a parallel RfC at Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)#RfC: community general sanctions and deletions that should not be confused with this one about the Arbitration Committee's discretionary sanctions. Cunard (talk) 07:39, 5 May 2019 (UTC)

Sivagopalakrishnan

Sivagopalakrishnan (talk · contribs) has recently admitted (here) to undisclosed paid editing and very belated made the required disclosure on SamHolt6's talk page, which was then copied to their user page and the article talk page for them. While looking a bit deeper, I found a disclosure on Commons from 2016March 2019 where they admitted paid editing trying to get unblocked (unsuccessfully). They've been pressed here on their talk page to make the required disclosures on all other articles they've created for pay. They've edited since those comments without responding or making disclosures, so I'm coming here for some admin help on this. I'm pretty confident that many of the articles they've created have been for pay and more than a few have been substandard. Draft:Syarikat Kejuruteraan Kenali is a pretty good example of that. Many of their edits are related to Indian film and television which is probably very under-represented here but also has a lot of WP:UPE happening. At this point, I'd like to see a block until they respond to the concerns AND make all of the required declarations. Thanks. Ravensfire (talk) 15:01, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

Pinging Cyphoidbomb as an admin highly involved in the topic areas. Ravensfire (talk) 15:05, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

Confirming the authenticity of Ravensfire's points above, and taking the time to thank them for their diligence. I originally suspected Sivagopalakrishnan of COI/UDP editing after I reviewed their work at Draft:Syarikat Kejuruteraan Kenali and found it to be riddled with puffery and WP:OR; very credible off-wiki evidence (being withheld out of respect for WP:OUTING) confirmed a paid connection between the editor and company. I have no bearing on any other potential violations of WP:PAID, but will comment that Ravensfire's points are strong, Sivagopalakrishnan's comments on the WMC are highly indicative of more undisclosed paid editing, and that future failure to communicate (WP:COMMUNICATION) should be grounds for a block.--SamHolt6 (talk) 15:38, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

Silence is never a good sign from editors like these and I would support a block until they start speaking and, as Ravensfire has suggested, until they agree to announce paid editing for each of the article's they've manipulated for pay. This, however, is contingent on a "are they even worth keeping around" analysis. If all they're doing is puffing up articles, I would be disinclined to let them loose in the wild again. If they tend to edit well with occasional bouts of puffery, that's a different story, perhaps. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 15:44, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

Please note that I misread / mis-remembered the date of their Commons post. It was actually from March 2019, not 2016. That does change the scope, but I still strongly believe that Sivagopalakrishnan has multiple articles that they've edited for pay and need to disclose, plus they really need to respond to comments made by other editors. My apologies for the brain spasm. Ravensfire (talk) 21:29, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

My own preference is that once an editor has been caught poisoning Wikipedia by undisclosed paid editing, they should not be given a second chance, at least not until they have blocked long enough to be eligible for standard offer. My own opinion would be no second chance even for an editor who otherwise has a reputation as an "excellent content creator", which is not the case here. We give far too many chances to editors who admit after the fact that they have been engaged in previously undisclosed paid editing. Our procedures for declared paid editing are very generous, and there is no excuse for not complying with them from the start. Robert McClenon (talk) 16:48, 16 May 2019 (UTC)

I agree with Robert. Completely. Well put. They have also ignored this report. If it wasn't for this one edit I would have AGF'd that they weren't aware of having a talkpage, but it's clear they are. And they keep on editing. I recommend an indefinite block. Anybody against? Bishonen | talk 15:54, 21 May 2019 (UTC).

I looked through the contributions and don't think there's much we can do regarding the articles themselves. They appear on the surface to be fact-based articles on non-English TV series and acting talent. There is a strong bias at AfD for keeping such material, and it is nearly impossible to improve the articles or contextualize any deletion discussions that may be appropriate without foreign language abilities and cultural awareness that few enwp contributors have. The sample of articles I reviewed did not have the sort of obvious, serious problems that would allow them to be speedied. UninvitedCompany 18:13, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

There are two separate issues, the content and the editor. An undisclosed paid editor often writes reasonable-looking material, precisely in order to avoid a G11 that might call attention to their undisclosed paid status, and such edits need to be reviewed, not always deleted. However, if the editor has engaged in undisclosed paid editing, there is no reason to permit them to continue editing. In my opinion, they should wait until the world ends in 2038, but anyway wait a very long time. What reason do we have to think that such an editor has now made all of the declarations? Their own honor, when we know that they have no honor? It is true that they will probably sock, but we do better at blocking sockpuppets than at blocking spammers. Robert McClenon (talk) 23:22, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

Question about outing

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

If a user has voluntarily disclosed their identity on another language Wikipedia, but not on enwiki, would it be OK for someone to disclose their identity on enwiki? If not OK, would such a disclosure be blockable for outing? -- MelanieN (talk) 15:59, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

• Well that's an interesting turn of phrase: unless that person has voluntarily posted his or her own information, or links to such information, on Wikipedia (emphasis in original). So presumably es.wiki or de.wiki are fair game, but Wikidata and Commons are right out. GMG^talk 16:03, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

• GreenMeansGo That interpretation of policy produces an absurd result and thus, cannot be correct. ~ ONUnicorn^{(Talk|Contribs)}problem solving 16:06, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

• Yes, common sense probably dictates that this should be replaced with "on a public Wikimedia project". GMG^talk 16:08, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

• I would be conservative and say that it means English Wikipedia. We don't write rules for other Wikis and while someone may have outed themselves on another wiki, it's not our job to bring that person's name into the English wiki if they choose not to do so. I would "err" on the side of until they release their personal information on this wiki, you can't do it either. Sir Joseph ^(talk) 16:12, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

• That policy page should be amended to include Commons in "Wikipedia". Most of the time the information is included in the local versions of file pages anyway. I can recall at least one occasion where the disclosed-on-Commons identity of an uploader was discussed on en-wiki, without causing any concern. The discussion involved the removal of various images over licensing issues, and citing the Commons disclosure was uswful, if not necessary, to resolve the copyright concerns. The Big Bad Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo). Treated like dirt by many administrators since 2006. (talk) 16:15, 13 May 2019 (UTC)
• I can think of no reason any editor would be justified in posting another editor’s personal information anywhere at any time. Even if someone posts their personal information on the English Wikipedia there is no reason any other editor should be repeating that personal information on the English Wikipedia. It is irrelevant to what we do here. Bus stop (talk) 16:24, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

• Some people put their name on their talk page or user page, so they are OK with being "outed." Sir Joseph ^(talk) 16:36, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

• How is an editor’s actual identity ever of any relevance to anything being discussed? Bus stop (talk) 16:40, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

• Bus stop This response of mine is off topic of MelanieN's original query, but the actual identity of users is often extremely relevant when, for example, discussing copyright status of their contributions (and their ability to release text and/or images under an appropriate license). It's also relevant when discussing issues surrounding COI and paid editing. Those are just two examples, I'm sure there are more. ~ ONUnicorn^{(Talk|Contribs)}problem solving 16:49, 13 May 2019 (UTC)
• COI/PAID stuff. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:09, 13 May 2019 (UTC)
• Both of these responses are right on target. The Big Bad Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo). Treated like dirt by many administrators since 2006. (talk) 17:17, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

• Those are specific exceptions. In light of such exceptions I would revise my position to assert that outside of such explicit exceptions the disclosure or even the mere mention of information pertaining to another editor’s real life identity should be strongly frowned upon. Bus stop (talk) 17:23, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

• Congratulations, you've rediscovered the idea of having an outing policy. --JBL (talk) 20:27, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

• Thank you, Sir Joseph. I really need an opinion about other language Wikipedias, not so much the WikiMedia issue. This is not a theoretical question; I am looking at a case of this situation right now. My response was to redact and revdel the disclosure, and to warn the discloser not to do it again, but not to block them. They are now asking if they can disclose it at the COI board. Any other comments? -- MelanieN (talk) 16:31, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

The letter of the policy says "Wikipedia". Whether that should be changed or clarified would be a good question for an RfC at WP:HARASS. Whether a local-only option is even technically feasible (it isn't) is a different matter. Whether users are regularly outed cross-wiki when they have outed themselves already on some other public Wikimedia project is simply a matter of fact. GMG^talk 16:58, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

• Wikipedia talk:Harassment#RfC: Clarification of OUTING GMG^talk 19:05, 13 May 2019 (UTC)
• I would always err on the side of caution: When in doubt, don't out someone. Unless someone is actively displaying their personal data on their user page currently at en.wikipedia, you shouldn't presume to do that for them. --Jayron32 19:14, 13 May 2019 (UTC)
• Building off ONUnicorn's comment, here's a realistic situation that I just came up with. User:123456789ab uploads a file at Commons, claims it as an own work, and lists the author's name as "John Doe". Here at en:wp, 123456789ab uploads a file, claims it as an own work, and lists the author's name as "Jane Smith". Obviously one or the other is wrong, and barring evidence of permission from an actual uploader, we'll need to delete both images on copyright-related grounds. The nominator's statement at en:WP:FFD would need to cite the Commons statement (otherwise there would be no reason to nominate it), and sanctioning the nominator for such a nomination would be absurd. The point of WP:OUTING is that you don't compromise someone's anonymity; if you've already publicly stated your identity, you don't have anonymity that can be compromised. But yet this isn't a "go ahead and do whatever you want"; our policies are fine with admins sanctioning users who repeat self-posted information in a malicious manner or for malicious purposes. I know someone else's real name from his first Commons upload, but if I just go around randomly saying "So-and-so's real name is X; here's the diff" without good reason, I deserve to be blocked for harassment. But if he starts saying "I'm a professor and my name is John Smith [link to a real Prof. John Smith's faculty page]" and starts convincing people to do a good deal of stuff based on those claims, it would be reasonable to link the Commons upload and say "When you registered, you claimed to be this other person". Nyttend (talk) 22:21, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

PS, see Essjay controversy. A major factor in this incident was this talk page note, in which Dev920 said to Essjay "according to your Wikia userpage, you're 24 years old and worked for this company, but according to your Wikibooks userpage here, you're 30 years old and a theology professor". Dev920's block log is clear, but if self-posted items on other WMF sites are off-limits, she should have been sanctioned immediately, and given the profile of the case (it got major news media coverage), there's no way she could have been overlooked. Nyttend (talk) 22:50, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

• Why can we not ask this person for their consent instead a community discussion (without that person) or a mountainous policy debate? The whole point on having a harassment policy is to ensure people's privacy is protected -- which may very well end up protecting people we may eventually need to block -- but it reduces the possibility where someone makes a mistake and they do not have to live with those consequences forever. Mkdw ^talk 04:45, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

In the case I am dealing with, the person is strongly objecting to having their identity revealed here. And up to this point it has not been. -- MelanieN (talk) 15:34, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

I think that answers our question about whether it should be done or not, if not from a policy point of view, for moral and ethical reasons. If this person is disruptive or in violation of our policies, we have other preventative measures that can be taken without further spreading their personal identifying information. Mkdw ^talk 16:12, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

Well, if the person strongly objects, that's significant — copying the statement from another project still isn't outing, but it's harassment if we don't have a very good reason. Nyttend backup (talk) 17:51, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

• Strongly No. We are not here to "out" anyone. Even if an editor posts up personal information about themselves, no matter where they post it or to what extent is the information detailed, we are not here to amplify or facilitate the dissemination of such information in any shape, way, or form. Unless an individual has chosen to work in Wikipedia under his real name, the correct way to address that individual is by their chosen Wkipedia-pseudonym. Even if the individual posts up personal information with an explicit permission (or even a request) to use that information any way we want, we should strictly avoid using it: We're not here to promote anyone, either.

We are here to improve the encyclopaedic content of Wikipedia. That's it. The social interaction encouraged by the existence of user pages and talk pages, as well as the existence of community projects, often confuse people. Well, Wikipedia is not a message board. -The Gnome (talk) 09:20, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

• Im going to steal your, Strongly No, and say that I'm definitely against behavior to search for dirt on someone by leaving the english wikipedia where the discussion originates. Those who try to reach their consensus by accusing other people should definitely be blockable. --NikkeKatski [Elite] (talk) 12:44, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

• The situation is sometimes more complicated than this, there are cases within en.wikipedia where an editor has disclosed themselves, but has later stated that they do not want to be connected to that old name (even though that is sometimes easily doable). Although not strictly 'outing', that is the choice of the editor. Although there are cases where a real identity is needed in discussion (COI, copyright), in all other cases people should not (re-)disclose. And as we cannot know all that happened since on another project, we should be very careful with reproducing identification from that other project. --Dirk Beetstra ^{T C} 13:40, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

• Just a reminder that there is now a formal RfC on this issue at Wikipedia talk:Harassment#RfC: Clarification of OUTING. Comments might be better made there. -- MelanieN (talk) 14:25, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

Thanks, MelanieN. Of course, this is a wider issue than plain harassment. We are at the threshold of sensitive personal data. -The Gnome (talk) 16:08, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

Yes. WP:OUTING is a subsection of WP:Harassment but IMO that confuses the issue. It seems to imply that revealing such information is only against the rules if it is done with malice. Private personal information to me is a separate issue, and should be protected regardless of the motive of the person revealing it. -- MelanieN (talk) 16:19, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Help needed for OTRS ticket

Wikimedia received a complaint about an article. ticket:2018112910001631 That complaint was received in November and has not yet been acted upon.

The article is in the Azerbaijanian Wikipedia. Not surprisingly, OTRS does not have a queue for that language.

The usual step in such cases is to track down a trusted admin with a working knowledge of the language and asked them to help. Can anyone recommend someone who might be able to help?--S Philbrick(Talk) 20:29, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

The entire azwiki administrative body is going to be removed pretty soon, so it's best to post it to a global sysop/steward. --qedk (t 桜 c) 21:03, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

@QEDK: Sup with the azwiki cabal?! ——SerialNumber54129 11:23, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

What cabal? Also, I realize I might have accidentally included a juicy nugget of information, so people can go to meta:Requests for comment/Do something about azwiki and know what exactly happened. --qedk (t 桜 c) 12:58, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

@QEDK: Maaan...that is sceptic. Way to give the canalistas a bad name :D ——SerialNumber54129 13:25, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

Pinging stewards, @HakanIST and Mardetanha: who both have az included in their babel. --qedk (t 桜 c) 21:04, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

QEDK, Thanks. To the stewards: if either of you are willing to take it on my intended next step would be to ask if this is still an open issue given the timing, and asking for permission to share the email contents with you. As you probably know, OTRS agents cannot share contents of OTRS Emails without permission. S Philbrick(Talk) 22:45, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

PS: Stewards have access to all info-queues. — regards, Revi 01:56, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

Sphilbrick, by the way, HakanIST and Mardetanha are both non-enwiki users and are unlikely to notice pings on this wiki. (I discovered this because I was looking around enwiki AN for fun wikidrama^tm) You may want to contact them via Meta where you are more likely to receive a response. — regards, Revi 12:08, 16 May 2019 (UTC)

-revi, good point S Philbrick(Talk) 12:19, 16 May 2019 (UTC)

@Sphilbrick: Mardetanha is already on the ticket actually! Stewards are more helpful than we give them credit for tbh. We sometimes ping non-enwiki stewards for global locks at SPI, someone usually comes by in a while. --qedk (t 桜 c) 05:29, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

QEDK, wow, that's great to hear. I was going to reach out personally but haven't had a chance so I'm happy to hear they are on it. It's quite a challenging ticket so this is great to hear S Philbrick(Talk) 12:28, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

Continuous disruptive editing/sockpuppeting by users Bilcat and Trekphiler

The users Bilcat and Trekphiler appear to be making repeated disruptive edits on the article Vacuum distillation, as well as threatening users with bans for warning them. [1]

The edit history shows they have repeatedly removed information that is cited by textbooks, while repeatedly claiming the cites do not exist. The citation are clearly listed, and so it is clear that this is intentional disruptive editing. Not only that, but there are links to the main articles on the additional information, all of which are well cited as well. They have both been told this, yet continue to pretend that the citations and links do not exist.

Both of them have also repeatedly deleted the warnings on their user pages and insulted users who posted them. The users show clear sockpuppet behavior both on the article and on their user pages, where they assist one another in bypassing the revert rules and removing warnings.

A quick look at Trekphiler's user page shows he believes he is somehow being targeted for harassment and makes accusations against the admins, even though there is no indication of any harassment except users repeatedly asking him to follow wikipedia guidelines.

Both users show a total lack of respect for the guidelines, generally unstable behavior, and have knowingly continued to make disruptive edits using clearly false statements. I respectfully request that the admins take disciplinary action against both users.

Thank you for your time and all the effort you put into wikipedia. 174.234.11.61 (talk) 07:48, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

They are both users in good standing. At a glance, it looks like they are removing your addition because, even though you provide two sources, not everything you've added has proper attribution. Please stop edit warring and realise that the onus is actually on you to discuss the changes on the article talk page. El_C 07:56, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

I semi-protected the article (but not talk page) for a week to end the edit war (I hope); both "sides" are asked to talk about it on the article talk page and help actually improve the content, citations, etc.

[Any administrator may undo or change as see fit etc etc., notification or documentation why appreciated KthxBai] Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 08:03, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

First off, the IP addresses are a thousand miles apart and not attempting to mask their location information at all, so they are not the same users.

Secondly, they are not in good standing and one of them even makes false accusations against the admins on his own page. This is not the kind of behavior that a member in good standing makes with absolutely no proof whatsoever against the admins.

Thirdly, neither of you has read the history or the citations, where they both claim sources literally do not exist before changing their claims to again falsely claim that the sources do not discuss the topic. Their reverts were clearly false and intentionally disruptive.

Read the history and the cited sources and it becomes 100% clear that they are being intentionally disruptive.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:100a:b012:52af:709e:28d:8bf0:3210 (talk • contribs)

Again, even only at a glance, not everything that you've added has citations attached. A user can be in good standing and still be a bit ranty about admin abuse. We can take it. El_C 08:23, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

You have not read the sources and neither have either user before they claimed the cites did not exist AT ALL. Only after being repeatedly called out did they admit the source exist, then falsely claim they do not cover the information provided. Every single response here has not even read what is going on or the cited sources before judging them. How can you make a judgment about the information without even reading?— Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:100a:b012:52af:709e:28d:8bf0:3210 (talk • contribs)

Because it's obvious there are portions of that addition that lack attribution. El_C 08:36, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

Is all the bold text really necessary? Have mercy on our eyes. El_C 08:42, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

As Ive asked already, how can you know if you have not read it? What are you basing your judgment off of if you have no read it? Both additional sections are cited, and the links to the articles agree and are cited too. What exactly is not cited? Show examples. Not one of you has listed a single instance of information which was not cited, you just keep repeating it without having shown any actual instances. What information are you referring to? If you have an actual example, why not post it?— Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:100a:b012:52af:709e:28d:8bf0:3210 (talk • contribs)

So much bold text. "[W]hich lowers the boiling point of most liquids" — no attribution. "[O]ften improves efficiency, and vacuum distillation of ocean water is considered one of the most efficient ways of Desalination" — no attribution. El_C 08:55, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

Well, maybe if someone had used tags or the talk section instead of throwing a massive hissy fit and edit warring, we could have clarified that information earlier.

As far as the statements you have challenged, not only is it cited repeatedly in other sections, there are multiple links where its cited in the links as well. In fact, its grade school level science and shown on many kids shows.

References

Perhaps if members do not have a grade school level science education they should stay out of scientific articles. There should be a minimum level of knowledge, just like the medical articles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:100a:b012:52af:709e:28d:8bf0:3210 (talk • contribs)

Please don't force everyone to sign your comments for you. Anyway, it takes at least two to edit war. Yes, tagging problematic portions with {{cn}} would have been one way to go. But once your content has been reverted, you should have gone to the talk page and figured out what's what there. Also, this the encyclopedia that anyone can edit (yes, that also includes medical articles), and that is not about to change anytime soon. El_C 17:48, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

• I've been watching this developing for a while and have avoided commenting on the talk: page, where this belongs, because I know how much personal hostility it will engender from Trekphiler (WP:ANI passim, but whilst we might describe BilCat as "in good standing", that certainly raises an eyebrow for Trekphiler).

We have here a conflict between a new and inexperienced editor (or at least AGF suggests that), who chooses to use an IP address, and two long-experienced editors. None of whom are making particularly good edits, but that is surely a bit more forgivable for new editors, not old hands. The two established editors are doing nothing other than persistent tag-team edit-warring for repeated dogmatic reversions of added content. 6RR over a few days. I can see no attempt by them at discussing this, beyond a bit of boilerplate, certainly not to discuss any content issues.

The content being added here is uncontroversial. It's not rocket surgery, it's college-level basic description of vacuum distillation. No-one here should ever challenge the addition of "lowers the boiling point": if it's not already there, that's a glaring omission and needed fixing. If it needs sourcing, then source it yourself, don't remove it (because it's a glaring omission to not say that). If you don't know this already, then don't mess with this article, it's clearly not your subject and you're likely to make it worse. Yes, sourcing is always a requirement. But I don't see any sourcing being added here (well, there was some, and that got reverted too!). A lack of sourcing in stuff which borders on the "self-evident" (Everipedia would be encouraging this as "editor knowledge", although we don't work that way) is no excuse to 6RR edit-war against any other editor, especially not in such a disconnected and uncommunicative fashion. Talk to people – it's how we get a mess like this sorted out. Explain just what the content problem is, and encourage the provision of adequate sourcing.

The IP editor has not helped here. They're templating as much as anyone, and WP:DTTR never works out well. But still, new editors, AGF, what else can we do but smile and be patient? Edit-warring with a lot of WP:IDHT in response is no way to go.

Sadly this sort of dogmatic bulk reversion is characteristic of much of BilCat's editing. I know this well: I overlap a lot with both of them, and I also find myself in BilCat's position of rolling back lots of unconstructive new additions which really don't belong here. But look at Special:Contributions/2600:100A:B016:5BC7:4CE5:D69E:8D86:58B9: four good, albeit unsourced, additions to separate articles and BilCat rolls them back [2] [3] [4]. He leaves one, because it's sourced. Otherwise it's no different. But rather than building on that, with a discussion (not a template) about how that's what we need, the rest is just rollback and edit-warring. Now I'm not saying he's wrong to do that, but it's not a welcoming environment for a new editor, it's not a constructive change to WP overall, and when the situation gets "worse" immediately afterwards with an edit-war on one of those, then that is not the time to continue a dogmatic edit-war with a tag-team (surely innocently, but still the same effect) to avoid technical violation of 3RR! And have I really had to describe "inspiring an edit-war" as "better" than just driving a new editor away altogether?

This is seriously unimpressive editing. The only thing more unimpressive is when (please don't) they then use the week's semi-protection as a lever against an IP editor. Andy Dingley (talk) 09:45, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

WP:ROLLBACKUSE—To revert obvious vandalism? (diff, diff, diff, diff, diff]) seems to be a common denominator, admittedly. ——SerialNumber54129 10:00, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

Sorry, but for better or worse, that's just not how Wikipedia works. We don't have enough experts around in all fields for even the purported self-evident to lack attribution. And it certainly ought to be sourced by the person behind the addition, not by the person seeking it. El_C 10:02, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

Then they should use proper tags instead of throwing hissy fits and edit wars. Everyone keeps saying the onus is on new users to prove their edit, but how are users supposed to clarify something if the users like Trek and Bilcat wont communicate like adults or discuss anything? They just keep throwing fits and having edit wars and refuse to communicate!

If they refuse to tag disputed content or discuss what needs to be clarified, then their complaints are automatically invalid. It takes zero effort to add tags compared to the massive time consuming edit warring fits they routinely throw. They are experience users and should be expected to behave as such. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:100a:b012:52af:709e:28d:8bf0:3210 (talk)

Sorry, no, that's not how it works. You don't get to set the rules by which people's complaints are valid. You don't get to ignore valid complaints because they were not formatted correctly. Also, above El_C has laid out additional problems with your proposed additions, which you have repeatedly ignored. --Jayron32 13:15, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

I can't say I'm the slightest surprised by Andy Dingley's dismissive & insulting attitude, nor by his taking the opportunity to weigh in against me uninvited. Nor am I surprised in particular false claims of vandalism are treated as perfectly okay, so long as they're made against me; I can imagine the outrage had I made them. Nor, frankly, am I surprised false (& frankly incredible) accusations of sockpuppetry are apparently okay, too. I will offer no defense, since it's a waste of time, only invite anyone interested to examine the diffs for themselves. TREKphiler ^{any time you're ready, Uhura} 22:19, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

• You mean an accusation like this? "i can't tell if this is vandalism or just stupidity, but i'm leaning toward vandalism"

An IP editor does something that you don't understand, so you revert it, don't discuss it, and then can't decide whether to call them stupid or a vandal? But hey, they're only IP editors, and your attitude towards them is obvious. Andy Dingley (talk) 22:57, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

Andy, a registered editor does something you don't understand to an IP, so you naturally side with the IP. You don't discuss it in a neutral manner, and you don't wait for the accused editors to defend and explain themselves. You simply attack them with comments "this sort of dogmatic bulk reversion is characteristic of much of BilCat's editing". That's really helpful in diffusing hostility. But hey, we're only registered editors, and your attitude towards us is obvious. There's a lot more to this situation than you know, but you don't even wait to find out what that is before passing judgment, and making an already bad situation much worse. Btw, you probably revert my edits more than any other editor reverts me, and you NEVER talk to me about it first. But I'm an old hand, so to heck with respect. If you run me off, too bad. How long does a new editor have to be on Wikipedia before you're free to treat them badly? Six months, a year? - BilCat (talk) 00:43, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

"You mean an accusation like this?" In the first place, it takes somebody practically stalking my every edit (like you, Andy) to even notice that.

You'll also notice the edit summary was equivocal, because it wasn't perfectly clear that was, indeed, not simple stupidity. (Seriously, calling the Fiat 500 related to the Type 1, a second time in a row, a good faith edit? You're kidding, right?)

Furthermore, I didn't slap the editor in question with a vandal warning, giving the benefit of the doubt. (I now await Andy's charges of personal attack on, or incivility to, the editor in question, or both, in yet another effort to have me blocked indefinitely. That the effort has nothing whatever to do with the charge originally levelled above is, of course, completely irrelevant.)

Add to that, Andy, is how you seem to be the very first editor to review any new page of mine & nominate for deletion or otherwise tag them, & I begin to think there's undue attention of my edits being paid by you.

Beyond that, however, I was thinking more of the repeated false claims in connection with Malta convoys. Unsurprisingly, you don't recall those, when they're made against me. Sorry they lost, I suppose? (I notice also my own complaints about those same false charges were, by all appearances, completely ignored, as I expect they would have been in this instance--had I bothered to bring it up.)

Somehow, this time it just didn't bug me. Go figure. You, Andy, are a continuing nuisance, however. Why don't you plague somebody else? TREKphiler ^{any time you're ready, Uhura} 19:01, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

• Folks, for the record, see User talk:2600:100A:B01C:2427:186F:B1D0:2426:6261. I blocked the /64 for evasion of the ban noted at User talk:DbivansMCMLXXXVI#Community topic ban. You might note that the OP here, User:174.234.11.61, geolocates to the same place, as do the other IPv6 addresses also used in this discussion. There are behavioural matches too (including making unsourced or poorly sourced edits, and complaining strenuously about other editors when they are reverted), so I reckon this is User:DbivansMCMLXXXVI for sure. They're not actually evading their ban here, as the ban was from the history of Nazi Germany, but whoever evaluates this should note the deceptive editing while logged out. (DbivansMCMLXXXVI is actually blocked now for the ban evasion, so any further edits here logged out while the block is in place will constitute block evasion.) Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 10:12, 19 May 2019

• Boing!, I have also blocked 2600:100a:b012:52af:709e:28d:8bf0:3210 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) for evasion of the DbivansMCMLXXXVI block. They're obviously the same person, but I'm not sure it'll do any good — I tend to be a bit lost when it's not all one /64 range. (With a lot of GF, 2600:100a:b016:5bc7:4ce5:d69e:8d86:58b9 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) may possibly not even be the same.) Bishonen | talk 19:18, 21 May 2019 (UTC).

• @Bishonen: Well, he wasn't actually evading a block with 2600:100a:b012:52af:709e:28d:8bf0:3210 at the time as I didn't block until the 19th, and this report isn't an evasion of the Nazi ban. But there's no harm blocking it now he's site banned, though I suspect he has access to a range of /64 addresses at the same geolocation/provider. (And yes, it would need more GF than I possess to believe 2600:100a:b016:5bc7:4ce5:d69e:8d86:58b9 is not him ;-) Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 19:28, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

• Oh, you're right, of course, Boing!; that IP wasn't evading at that time. But at this time we're trying to keep the person as blocked as possible, and that's him all right. And yes, I'm sure he has more IPv6's.¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Bishonen | talk 19:35, 21 May 2019 (UTC).

• Comments - Now that the master has been officially banned, can this discussion be closed now? I am making an effort to be less bitey in general, even before this user began his disruptions, and did actually try to assume good-faith with the first IP initially. However, in this case, we weren't dealing with a new user, as he was actively trying to deceive everyone involved on that point. Thanks. - BilCat (talk) 22:07, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

Discouraged about backlogs

Color me discouraged.

Some of you may know that my Wikipedia activity was low for a few months due to family situation. I'm back, but feeling a little overwhelmed.

Readers often have issues with articles that they wish to bring to our attention. Not knowing how to navigate the Wikimedia world, they typically send in a query to a Wikimedia address which gets handled by the volunteers at OTRS.

I had been trying to keep the (Info English Wikipedia) backlog down to about 100, but when I returned, it had ballooned to 450, some of which were months old. With the help of other OTRS volunteers, the backlog is down to about 270 but there are still queries going untouched for weeks. If this was my only issue, I wouldn't be here.

My original hope had been to get the info backlog down to a manageable size and then tackle the permissions queue, where people send in licenses for images (and occasionally text). That backlog is over 2000 (all languages), and a brief glance suggests that there are many tickets over a year old that haven't been touched.

A few minutes ago I processed a ticket from someone wishing to create a username. In certain cases, A request sent to WP:ACC gets kicked over to OTRS. I decided to check there to see if it had been filed their first and I saw the notice at the top of the page:

The request an account process is severely backlogged. If you submit a request today, you can expect a response in approximately 3 months.

I do understand that the article review process is backlogged and arguably our main mission is creating articles so one could argue that's the most important backlog. However, I have no problem explaining to an editor that reviewing a draft article is a challenging task and waiting a couple months is not an unreasonable expectation. I have a much tougher time explaining why someone asking a simple question, wishing to donate an image to us, or asking for an account so that they can contribute, should expect to wait 3 to 12 months for a response.

There were only one queue, I might be simply pleading for some experienced editors interested in contributing in other ways to step up and volunteer to help tackle one of these queues, but with this many backlogs, I'm wondering if we need a more organized response. Maybe we need to develop a clear statement of the problem, and determine whether we simply bake for more resources and throw them at the problem, a whether we need to rethink the workflow.

This is not the right forum for an in-depth study but I'm hoping it's a good place to get some feedback on next steps.What--S Philbrick(Talk) 15:03, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

I'm guessing OTRS has no distinction of tiering (Data_center_management#Tech_Support)? Tier 1 for easy tickets and tier 2 for harder? --Izno (talk) 15:18, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

Izno, I'm not intimately familiar with the software, but I'm not aware that it has automatic support for tiering. That said, I'm sure we have the ability to create new queues, and I have occasionally mulled over whether we should have a triage system, and move tickets into 1. Seems straightforward 2. a little work needed 3. buckle up queues. As anecdotal evidence, just yesterday I handled a five-month-old ticket that was very simple to answer. S Philbrick(Talk) 15:34, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

Tickets are distributed among queues (you can only access when you are explicitly granted) and subqueues (which are automatically accessible if you have access to the queue), it's basically a free-for-all where agents can choose where they want to focus their attention to, so it's not tiering but separation of work based on supply-demand. --qedk (t 桜 c) 15:37, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

The OTRS software does support prioritising of tickets, the question is how to prioritise them. Nthep (talk) 15:51, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

Nthep, Now that you mention it, of course you are right. I had forgotten it was there but I'm pretty sure no one ever uses it. If we were to conclude it would we could try. S Philbrick(Talk) 21:16, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

I have been giving a lot of thought to this topic myself as the New Page Queue is my primary backlog (TonyBallioni tells me I'm wrong about calling it a backlog but I see it is a potato/can't get your article in google sorta situation) and our queue has been growing. Over the last year there have been a few users who have done way more patrolling and far fewer users who have done a little bit of patrolling. I'd seen this in some other areas as well (including OTRS where I am one of the ones doing just a little bit of work). My conclusion, which I've though about writing an essay about but just hadn't though through all the way, is that we're near or just over a tipping point where we don't have the editor time to support the bureaucracy we've created but we also can't really pare back that bureaucracy because in most cases it's there for good reasons. I am a learned optimist so I don't like ending on this conclusion given the understandable feelings expressed above but those are my .02. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 15:38, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

Has the idea of handing OTRS over to WMF ever been seriously proposed? It seems like one of the few things currently done by volunteers that might be sensibly done by paid staff, except insofar as direct substantive edits are required as a result. — Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 15:52, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

• Read Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)/Archive_172#Failing_"request_an_account"_process and Wikipedia_talk:Request_an_account#Does_anyone_care? (courtesy ping Swarm and Bluerasberry) for perspectives on ACC backlog. It's a boring tedious task and I, for one, find writing articles to be much more lucrative. Extensive automation workflows have been thought out but they are stuck due to constraints of volunteer time (which's perfectly understandable) -- the entire software is managed by volunteers.

• For a starter, WMF needs to divert fund into developing these technological aspects rather than spend millions on stupid re-branding deals and/or hiring travel-managers. As Kudpung might allude to, we managed to convince them to minimally support NPP -- a basic maintenance suite after begging for years, which is sheer pathetic. As much as there's a general reluctance of the community to be involved in heavily bureaucratic workflows, there's no denying that the technology that runs most of our stuff are developed and maintained by volunteers and are often not suitable to drive the 5th largest website in the world. ∯WBG^converse 15:59, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

• My own ideas of what needs to happen -
  • More small grants to Wikimedia affiliates, perhaps with a goal of 50 wiki community organizations receiving WMF funds of at least $2000 a year. The bar is currently quite high for receiving funds from WMF and for lack of this small amount of funding, many volunteer groups which could grow to be well organized are stunted. This is especially true in the developing world. I am not suggesting that we throw money at risky projects, but 1 WMF staffer costs ~$120,000/year and the opportunity cost is that we are not sponsoring coffee / cookies which would greatly incentive community organizations.
  • I favor administrative staff being hired but not by the WMF. We should groom community groups to manage an administrative process. Currently the philosophy is no administrative funding for groups before they become super developed. I would flip that and say start with administrative support, especially to do reporting of outcomes and accomplishments, because so many groups find success in accomplishing things but failure to claim the credit they deservce.
  • Get funding to OTRS, possibly by funding a staff administrator in a Wikimedia chapter or wiki-supporting community organization or university. I do recognize a need for staff; I do not think it should be WMF staff because so often the interest of the WMF and community are in conflict. The OTRS staffperson should help present regular reports of OTRS metrics, including estimating volunteer hours put into the program, surveying the community for what community conversations it wants, convening regular (probably monthly) virtual meetups to discuss the requested issues, and notetaking at the meetings to document progress and consensus. OTRS is a likely community to work as a user group because of volunteer enthusiasm for everything about it except the bureaucracy of administering it.
  • OTRS is going to be increasingly automated in the future. We need to convene conversation now to inject ethical and community review into this ASAP before we hit a wall. Some automation would be readily accepted without much conversation; some other issues we need discussion.
  • Personally, I am ready to support the individual with a Wikimedia user group / chapter affiliation who would request and accept US$25,000 to run a short term or part time OTRS community survey and documentation drive. If anyone could put in 10/hours a week at this rate then I expect they would get ready results as we have such a great need for administrative development here. Wiki LGBT is developing a similar but more ambitious "Wikimedian at Large" staff position because of its comparable extreme global multilingual backlog for documenting LGBT wiki programs and accomplishments.
  • Overall, recognize that volunteers are fantastic for making an impact and planning strategy, but cannot be recruited to do the administration which creates the environment for impact to flourish. People volunteer for the wiki, not for the conventional office work behind the wiki.

Blue Rasberry (talk) 16:20, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

• It's not just OTRS. Requests for unblock has been struggling - the highest I have ever seen it, and it refuses to go down. But yeah, NPP/AFC/removing spam from mainspace is the worst - newbies/spammers/UPE clients often use WP:OSE to justify their junk. The mathematically astute would see a differential equation (dS/dt ~ kS) whose solution involves the amount of crap/spam increasing exponentially with time. I completely agree the WMF's failure to invest in software development for the community is a significant contributor to the problem. I'll go on the record to say that the admin/patroller toolkit is derelict from a software point of view. The Anti-Harassment team's work, while welcome, is woefully insufficient. (As an aside, bug bounties would help with the software problem.) Better software only buys a little time. What is needed is root cause analysis. Yes, that means pruning the bureaucracy where possible (e.g. devising processes that require less community time) and strategically retreating from areas which are not worth the effort. ACPERM is a start. We also need to be less tolerant with spammers, tendentious editors and other time wasters. In the long run, we need to focus on recruiting and retaining the right kinds of editors, which is not commensurate with the "growth, content quality be damned" attitude of the WMF. MER-C 19:35, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

• The ACC backlog was particularly scary. There were some reasonable notes in those discussions that suggested the state of affairs is too bad for additional volunteers to resolve - we needed to stem in the influx. The same could be said for OTRS in some aspects. The corporate "we're told we can't paid-edit, so do this for us" comes in a mixed blob of work and unstated threat that has spiked upwards just in the last month or two.Nosebagbear (talk) 22:16, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

• I'd really, really not want to see WMF control in OTRS to increase, but I could see the necessity both in improving the workflow and aiding in the software. @Barkeep49: makes an excellent point that we are both stuck in the bureaucracy and yet we didn't create it just for our personal entertainment. Nosebagbear (talk) 22:16, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

• The real killer of smaller number of people doing more is that becomes spectacularly dull for some of the more tedious workflows (ACC and routine permissions-queues come to mind) to do as their primary activity. With regard to UTRS - there was a suggestion made that the new admins of the last two years (who are generally very active) could be queried if they'd be interested. "Standard" vandalism seems fairly well handled - perhaps a campaign to encourage that 1500-4000 edit group to reach out to try alternate areas (NPP, AfC, etc etc)? Nosebagbear (talk) 22:16, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

  Standard counter-vandalism is also one of our most highly automated areas between true automation with Cluebot and effective automation with Huggle. It is also an area that lends itself to automation more than something like OTRS/UTRS. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 23:46, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

• Nowhere is the lack of interest in doing back office work more evident than at NPR , arguably the most important of volunteer tasks. After all, it's the very process that controls the growth of the corpus. The "growth, content quality be damned" attitude of the WMF (MER-C) is very real however, hence the years-long battle (and really a fight) to finally get ACPERM. Unfortunately the NPR backlog has now suddenly doubled in the last two months. The WMF claim their Executive Officer, "...lives in a metal tube in the sky". Perhaps if that massive travel budget were to be converted to software development or scholarships for volunteers to travel to conferences and meetings, the unpaid communities may be encouraged to do more on a 'get involved' basis.

OTRS is the victim of its own lack of success - it fires its agents for not doing enough, and is or has been riddled with paid editors abusing it for their own ends. That said, rather than handing OTRS over to the WMF, the community should be looking at ways of wresting some of the power away from that organisation instead of giving it more. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 23:56, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

• I did volunteer at OTRS years ago, but was criticized for some of my answers, and quit. I also have a history of letting my unease with the drama in Wikipedia lead me to periods of inactivity. Frankly, I don't see Wikipedia getting any better, so I am trying to find a balance that lets me continue to contribute without losing patience and going on another extended break. I think about volunteering for OTRS again, but worry about not being able to sustain it. Sorry, just ranting here. - Donald Albury 01:10, 15 May 2019 (UTC)
• Really basic question. I used to volunteer at ACC before I was an admin. Then when it switched over to the global accounts I was unable to create accounts (either that and I’m confused and I stopped accessing the login portal for it). Either way, I could help if I understood the current process better. I’ve dabbled a bit with OTRS as well. NJA | talk 01:39, 15 May 2019 (UTC)
• I've been seeing the same problem with template and other more tech related tasks within the community for years and have warned about it repeatedly. You see, if people are not enthousiastic about doing things (having fun or believing in the cause), they seek out other things that are enjoyable (Wikidata for instance). By doing things that are enjoyable they build dedication and that is how they end up going beyond the line of duty for years and years without pay. It is the simplest of mechanics of volunteering. At Wikipedia we have so much focused on the quality, the rules, the status quo and the infighting that people are going to other places. And without people no content. This has been happening for years now, where the dedicated few have picked up the slack, but now they need to do ALL the boring stuff (going beyond the line of duty) and don't have time for the nice stuff, while the influx of new community staffing has been lackluster. We really need to fix that. We need to bring back the experimenting, we need to make it easier to do lots of boring tasks easily on your phone, which is where people reside nowadays and we need to encourage people to have fun, instead of only focusing on the work as the holy grail of everything. And yes we would be making mistakes along the way and yes WMF will fuck up all the time in this process because it is HARD, but without that we are slowly bleeding until we bleed out. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 07:19, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

• I've just started my daily look through CAT:CSD. It's the usual list of spammers and socks who've been coached, through about six dozen previous unblock requests, to finally put the right form of words into their latest request. It's hard to say how discouraging I find this. On the one hand, we're supposed to AGF and I'm generally in favour of giving people a second chance; on the other, I have no expectation whatsoever that these accounts are going to end up productive editors. So I have three choices: (a) unblock them, in the near-certain expectation they'll keep causing trouble; (b) decline the request, in the near-certain expectation that even though they've jumped through all the hoops put in front of them in previous requests, they're never going to be unblocked because no-one's ever going to trust them; or (c) be a coward and leave the request for someone else to deal with. Spammers are the worst; I'm looking at a request now of someone who's been blocked for promoting non-notable figures in the entertainment industry. Now they swear they will only "be mentioning the entertainment industry's highs and lows and the working module in general which will be purely for information and not for any promotion or favouring any company or product, not defaming or tarnishing any images and not linked to anyone's monetary gains. This will be a total new talk/user/article page from a fresh prospective and not linked to any of the previous contents or edits. If I decline the request, they'll just make another one and I don't have the emotional energy to come up with a reasonable decline rationale today anyway. If I accept the request, I'd bet good money I'll regret it. What to do? Reblock them with TP access off? I usually get through two or three requests before the whole thing is so soul-destroying I go do something else. GoldenRing (talk) 09:53, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

@GoldenRing: Tbh, if it's got to the point where it's got to the stage where it's causing a degree of personal discomfort of any kind, I think, yes, leave it to someone else; you don't need to take sole responsibility for the CAT:CSD flotsam and jetsam...or any other for that matter  :) ——SerialNumber54129 10:08, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

@Serial Number 54129: TBH that's what I often do. I'm not sure it makes the personal discomfort any better; I just feel I've been a coward as well as not dealing with any RFUs. I'd really value advice from others on how they handle these; if the answer is just "grit your teeth and switch TP access off" then so be it. I suspect such advice is unlikely to be forthcoming, though, because others are probably in exactly the same predicament I'm in, and that this, after all, is why there is a backlog at RFU. GoldenRing (talk) 10:13, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

@GoldenRing: I bet you're right, hot potatoes are made to be passed along  :) but on a more serious note, I also wouldn't want you to feel cowardly. As you said, these characters are spammers and socks by the dozen: they've had a chance to prove their good faith and failed to do so, so your good faith need stretch no further. Personally, I wouldn't waste any of your time on 'em; make em jump through the hoops, four-five-six-seven unblock requests with the standard templated reply. If they're serious, they'll stick with it; more likely they'll get bored and (perhaps) leave. The bottom line is that the famous nuanced approach and articulation that got you the RfA should never be wasted on "socks and spammers", it's too valuable ELSEWHERE. Bugger them! Cheers, ——SerialNumber54129 10:28, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

@Serial Number 54129: I don't think I'll take your last piece of advice, at least not literally, but thanks for the rest. GoldenRing (talk) 10:34, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

• Backlogs? So recruit some more people to assist in clearing them (as admins, junior janitors, or however you want to slice the permissions). Oh, but we don't have an adminship process, do we, we have the Jeremy Kyle show instead. Admins have built this situation, or at the very least, allowed it to arise. The more paranoid might say that was to reinforce the cabal, the less so because it just happened that way, but still nothing has been done to fix it. Andy Dingley (talk) 10:03, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

@Andy Dingley: Maaan...did you have to mention that?! :D  ;) ——SerialNumber54129 10:31, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

ahem[5] Lectonar (talk) 11:20, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

He knew what he was getting into and should never have stood at RfA. Andy Dingley (talk) 11:32, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

• Andy Dingley, I have often noticed pleas for backlog clearing in this thread. In many cases, someone reports, often in minutes, that they're working on it and have cleared out most of the backlog. For some backlogs, that's the right approach. I have also come to this thread in the past and begged for OTRS help, which has often provided some temporary relief, but my approach this time is different because I don't think it is as simple as throwing a few more resources at it. As others have noted, we may need to do some more fundamental rethinking of how we approach some of these administrative tasks. S Philbrick(Talk) 19:20, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

  So is the problem insufficient admin attention then? From your first comment, it sounded like a lot of the backlogs you were concerned about didn't require an admin as mentioned below, but now I'm unsure. Is the OTRS problem that too many of the requests do require an admin and there aren't enough dealing with them on OTRS? Nil Einne (talk)

Many of the backlogs do not technically require an admin to address the issue, although there are many situations (the need to review deleted content) that make it helpful to be an admin. I posted to this thread, not because I was simply begging for more volunteers to help, but because I was looking for insights on how to handle the broader problem, and this seemed like the best forum to reach out to experienced editors.--S Philbrick(Talk) 15:51, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

• A person doesn't have to be an administrator to work on some of the backlogs mentioned in this thread. That includes both OTRS (which does require OTRS permission set) and New Page Patrol and Articles for Creation. Recruiting more people is one obvious solution for sure, but are there other avenues that could be pursued? — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 20:21, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

  Would expanding CSD criteria and tightening up notability guidelines help with NPP And AfC backlogs? Also, more NACers might help free up admin time to tackle admin-specific backlogs. Leviv ich 16:53, 16 May 2019 (UTC)

Let me know when you get the CSD criteria expanded—I'll put my name forward for pontiff. ——SerialNumber54129 17:12, 16 May 2019 (UTC)

• Yeah Andy's comment just seems weird to me. I read their comment first, then went to the top and read what the issue was and I was thinking 'am I wrong, I thought most of these don't require someone to be an admin', was going to check but quickly re-read this thread and found your comment. Nil Einne (talk) 17:08, 16 May 2019 (UTC)

  I'm probably overlapping somewhat between "admin" and OTRS et al., but the point is that they require raised permissions of some sort. Andy Dingley (talk) 17:58, 16 May 2019 (UTC)

• I keep asking this question, but I do not think I have ever got a satisfactory answer to it. Do we have a general understanding which areas (admin-specific, or even no necessarily admin -specific) are badly backlogged long-term? From my experience, at WP:RFPP we are generally fine, there are backlogs there but they get cleared very quickly. WP:AIV is typically fine. WP:CCI is really badly backlogged. But there are many corners of the Wikimedia Universe I have never been to and have no idea how things are doing there.--Ymblanter (talk) 09:24, 17 May 2019 (UTC)
  • A parallel alarming problem is areas where one or two people are doing the bulk of the work, and their loss or temporary absence is practically catastrophic. This is the same problem that Sphilbrick noted when he was called away for an extended wikibreak due to an illness/death in the family: we are spread pretty thin in several important areas.
    • When he returned to editing he discovered that the backlog on the OTRS queue had ballooned from 100 cases to 450 cases.
    • Here is the leaderboard for CopyPatrol where you can see there's only two people working most days. I can do about 10-20 cases per hour. So 60 cases per day represents anywhere from 3 to 6 or more hours of work daily. I was able to keep up during Sphilbrick's wikibreak but it was stressful and hard and I would not be able to maintain that level of participation long-term without endangering my own well-being.
    • Wikipedia:Database reports/Top new article reviewers shows that the bulk of the work is being done by two people. While it's not always been the same two people, this is not a new phenomenon. There's currently 7156 articles in the new pages queue. These date back to the beginning of March (10 weeks). There are also 3480 drafts awaiting review - I was unable to determine readily as to how many people are working that queue right now.
    • The bulk of the work at Wikipedia:Copyright problems is being done by just one person.
  • What this means is that if one of the core people leaves, there's nobody up-and-coming that is in a position to take over the task. That's all I have to say for now; I don't have any solutions to offer; I just want to build some awareness as to the scope of the problem — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 13:24, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

    Thanks, this is useful. May be someone should invest time in writing an essay about it.--Ymblanter (talk) 15:28, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

    • Writing essays is helpful, but actually working on the tasks even more so — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 17:36, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

      I do not think anybody can say I am not doing enough, but we are not just talking about working on backlogs, but also on optimizing tasks.--Ymblanter (talk) 17:41, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

  Ymblanter, I'll share with you where I look when I want to see if there are backlogs. {{Admin dashboard}} is a great place to start, because some of the more important backlogs especially those that are time sensitive are in a nice box on the right-hand side. That page also has a section on administrative backlog. The box on the right has a link "click here to locate other admin backlogs". I think that covers most of them with a couple notable exceptions. Curiously, I don't see CCI (did I miss it?). The OTRS backlog isn't here for the obvious reason that it is an external tool, not part of en wiki. Copy Patrol is also an external tool, and not something I discussed in my rant above because Diannaa keeps it under control. (But I concur with her concern about having too much of the activity handled by one or two people) S Philbrick(Talk) 14:36, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

  Thanks. I remember I user to look at {{Admin dashboard}} a few years ago when I was given the tools, but somehow I did not find it useful (at least not clicking through everything and figure out where the actual backlogs are). May be it can be improved though, for example, as GoldenRing suggests below.--Ymblanter (talk) 15:31, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

  CCI is an ordinary backlog, not an admin backlog, and wasn't tagged as backlogged until just now. MER-C 20:13, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

  MER-C, good point S Philbrick(Talk) 21:17, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

  Is there potential to add more of these backlogs to {{Admin tasks}} which is transcluded at the top of this page? I've had a go at adding a count of WP:Copyright problems (currently refers to a sandbox module so needs use, but it's a start). Thoughts? Many of these are not technically "admin" tasks but rather tasks that are often done by admins. GoldenRing (talk) 15:16, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

  • Many copyright problems require the use of (revision) deletion, so it is sometimes an admin task. That said, a manual count of the copyvio backlog gives me 67 items. MER-C 20:11, 17 May 2019 (UTC)
  • I've fixed the copyright violation count to not require a module dedicated just to it. * Pppery * _survives 20:47, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

  • Pppery Thanks. I've made some adjustments to the pattern (and learned quite a lot about lua patterns in the process - weren't regex good enough???). I think the best that can be said is that it's now a closer approximation to the correct count, though. Curiously, using Special:ExpandTemplates to expand the text and then running grep -e '^ *\*[^*:] | wc -l' on the result gives me a 178 matches, while count = string.gsub(text, "\n *%*[^*:]", "") gives 174 matches; no idea what the difference is. Neither seems a very close match for a manual count. GoldenRing (talk) 11:05, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

• Just a comment that now is probably the best time to run for RfA in almost a decade (ignoring the January '17 surge). Candidates tend to pass in the 90s, and all but one of the serious RfXs that we have had this year have passed. I hate to sound like a broken record, but just encourage people you know to go for RfA and offer to nominate them. This doesn't address all the backlogs here, but it will help by giving more active users access to the tools that can help clear many of these backlogs.
  Also, I'll put in my by now standard plug that we need more patrolling admins at SPI to evaluate behavioural evidence in SPIs with CU results or where CU hasn't been requested since everyone is plugging their pet backlog . TonyBallioni (talk) 20:44, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

• @Sphilbrick:, I signed up for the WP:ACC team to help with the backlog. I had no idea it was that bad. I will point out that working on the ACC team is no small thing as it, like OTRS, involves access to nonpublic data as well as having its own set of complex procedures. Perhaps some streamlining of the process is in order, but I don't think anyone not on the team is in a good position to comment on the changes that may be needed. UninvitedCompany 21:00, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

  UninvitedCompany, Thanks for signing up. I'm actually not very involved in ACC. Because I'm active in OTRS, and there is a tiny bit of interaction between ACC and OTRS in some cases, I offered to be the liaison between ACC and OTRS but nothing has as yet come out of that offer. We occasionally get tickets in OTRS from people who have been sent there from ACC, and we still haven't sorted out how best to deal with workflow. If you get active, we should talk. S Philbrick(Talk) 00:51, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

ReeceTheHawk

ReeceTheHawk (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

This user has requested the standard offer, placing this request on their TP:

It has been 1 year and 2 months since I was told to take the standard offer and I have not edited Wikipedia in this time. I forgot to post an unblock request 6 months after the standard offer but now i'm back into wikipedia hoping to start editing again. Reece (talk) 18:33, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

I am bringing this to the community for consideration. A quick flick through their mainspace contributions suggests to me that they have the potential to be a useful editor of the gnoming sort, though with a bit to learn about policies and procedures. GoldenRing (talk) 11:11, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

• {{Checkuser needed}} @GoldenRing: The block was a CU block and needs a check before it can be removed, only then can SO apply. --qedk (t 桜 c) 13:15, 15 May 2019 (UTC)
• Support if (but only if) checkuser shows no violations. --Yamla (talk) 13:25, 15 May 2019 (UTC)
•  Checkuser note: there's not much data to go on, but I don't see any obvious socking on the range they are on. If there is community consensus to unblock, I'm fine with it from a CU perspective. TonyBallioni (talk) 14:02, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

• @QEDK and TonyBallioni: Thanks for the reminder and for doing the check. GoldenRing (talk) 14:09, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

• Seems reasonable. Floquenbeam? –xeno^talk 14:13, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

• I guess the theory is that if you don't actually say anything in your unblock request, you won't be caught lying? Looking at their talk page history, including their last few unblock requests, I think the odds of them being productive are pretty low. I suppose if they're young they've grown up some? I'm not going to waste my time negotiating unblock conditions, but if someone else wants to, that's OK with me. I'm perfectly happy for any individual admin, or a consensus here, to decide anything they want to. But you might want to get Reece to, I don't know, at least link to their previous ANI thread, or their previous declined unblock requests, or see if they understand what the previous problems were, or explain how they're going to avoid them, or something, instead of expecting others to do the heavy lifting for them. --Floquenbeam (talk) 14:34, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

• Per Floq, I also would not accept the SO request unless and until they can explain 1) what they did wrong and 2) what they plan to do differently. Unblocking without those two items doesn't seem like a good idea. If they CAN do those things, I would be fine with an unblock. --Jayron32 15:18, 15 May 2019 (UTC)
• Per my colleagues above, I think we should be requiring a basic "here's what I did wrong, here's why I won't do it again" even for SO unblocks. A fair amount of recent drama involving an editor who filed and had accepted a bare-bones SO unblock request only makes me more certain of this. Vanamonde (Talk) 16:16, 15 May 2019 (UTC)
• The thread leading to their initial one-week block is here. After that block expired they did something to get indeffed which I don't really understand, but it feels to me like a WP:CIR sort of thing. Then this happened and they lost talk page access. Later, checkuser linked them to Ediitor10 (talk · contribs), and after another unblock request was declined Reece disclosed a bunch more accounts they had created to evade their block, although checkuser showed there were more they had not disclosed and were still using at that time. Several of those accounts were created solely to attack other editors. But, checkuser seems to show now that they're being honest. I'm willing to cautiously support here, with the understanding that any new misstep is going to result in a much more permanent sanction. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 16:58, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

• FYI, copied from his talk page, in response to a suggestion from me to address what previous problems were and how he intends to avoid them:

  What I did in the first place to be blocked - I reverted edits after a clear warning not to and I made edits which were invalid. This is because at the time I didn't know how to edit properly.

  How I will avoid this if I am unblocked - I will avoid this by only making edits which are valid and which are suitable for Wikipedia, and avoid making too many edits at a time unless I need to.

  Hopefully I can be unblocked today, I don't see any reason why I should stay blocked. I followed all terms of the standard offer process for over double the time and I also understand Wikipedia alot better now. ReeceTheHawk (talk) 14:31, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

  Probably time for an uninvolved admin (or !voters) to make a decision, I suspect you aren't going to get much more detail without investing significant one-on-one time. --Floquenbeam (talk) 14:23, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

Modification of sanctions

I would like to seek community input to loosen my active sanctions. In particular, I would like the following changed from User:Swarm's comment, which I am placing here for convenience:

Unban conditions

Hi. It appears there's a consensus to unban you, so congratulations. However, before unblocking you, I need you to indicate that you understand and accept that you will remain on a final warning status for disruption, broadly construed. Some examples of what this entails are: You will refrain from editing Wikipedia policies and guidelines You will refrain from unnecessary edits or participation in the Wikipedia namespace or in any Wikipedia meta-processes. Any such participation should be directly and unambiguously related to the uncontentious improvement of articles. You will refrain from any experimentation outside of your personal sandbox. Frivolous experimentation will not be tolerated. You will refrain from making unconstructive edits in your userspace (you may still personalize your user pages, but any such edits with negative effects will not be tolerated). You will refrain from creating redirects. If you think a redirect is needed, you will go through WP:AFCRD. Frivolous requests will not be tolerated. You will refrain from making any edits that are not in compliance with the content or behavioral policies and guidelines. You will refrain from creating unnecessary or frivolous pages of any kind. If you receive a complaint about your behavior, edits or actions from an established editor in good standing, you will immediately cease said behavior and self-revert prior to any attempts at defending yourself. You may defend yourself and pursue dispute resolution measures, but frivolous, excessive, or unconstructive arguing will not be tolerated. You understand that you have no say in what conduct will be considered "disruptive", "frivolous", "unnecessary", or "broadly construed". Should any admin feel that you have caused or are causing any sort of "disruption" whatsoever, within or outside of the above examples, they may reblock you for any period of time, or indefinitely, without further warning. If you abide by these conditions without any issues, you may request that this arrangement be lifted or loosened by community consensus, after six months, at WP:AN. Please let me know if this is something you are willing to agree to. Swarm ♠ 15:20, 12 August 2018 (UTC) — User:Swarm

Here are the changes to the sanctions that I want:

• Redirect creation is allowed, but cross-namespace redirects are prohibited without first consulting an administrator. Also, I am limited to a set number of redirects per 24 hour period (which can be increased as I make more needed redirects). Start with one for now.
• Policies and guidelines are edited only after seeking a consensus on the talk page. Grammatical corrections must be clearly marked as such ("typo", ☑ Minor edit).
• The expiry should change from indefinite to 1-2 years from now.
• Other than that, any series of actions deemed as "unnecessary", "disruptive", or "time-wasting" could still get me blocked as summed up by User:Swarm.

What I have learned from this experience:

• Edits that do not align with Wikipedia's pillars are disruptive, regardless on what policy says.
• Making policy-related edits is disruptive, as highlighted by users on this site and on wikiHow.
• What seems like a good idea at one point can prove to be impractical, as seen in this discussion. It is important to ponder the practicality of an idea before proposing it to the community.

Anyway, I have decided to wait until now since I have gotten more experience with inserting images and helped out more on the site and wikiHow. I hope to come back in a week or so to see what happens. Awesome Aasim 19:39, 16 May 2019 (UTC)

To add on, the reason why I was blocked back in May and August 2017 was for the repeated timewasting of good-faith editors, something that Iridescent, Tony, Neil, Aiken, Bishonen, EEng, and numerous other editors fell victim to. Yes, Wikipedia is not my personal sandbox (one of the contributing factors to my two blocks). I also know that for the time being, it is only a good idea to work on improving the encyclopedia rather than messing around with policy-related and policy-violating edits. One of the problems I had was with, rather asking kindly, persistently using a policy to justify why something is broken rather than actually showing something is broken until the end where I did provide a link to a screenshot, but the disruption was already done. It was more of a problem that I needed to mind my own business (since I had a white-on-black talk page and hard, contrasting colors), and not a problem of "this editor violated policy so keep on proving that it is a violation". This is what my talk page looked like when I was blocked the first time (May 2017), and this is what my talk page looked like when I was blocked the second time (August 2017), if you want to see all of the problems I caused then. Because I have not made that many edits now, I am asking for the gradual loosening of sanctions, not a full "I am free to roam the country" lifting of sanctions. Awesome Aasim 06:54, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

• Please disclose your former username so the community can judge. I have no view on this appeal, but did want to make that comment. TonyBallioni (talk) 19:41, 16 May 2019 (UTC)
• Wow, that was fast. My old username was UpsandDowns1234. You can see my talk page for more details. Awesome Aasim 19:42, 16 May 2019 (UTC)

• As one of the many people who had to clean up the train of incompetence and disruption that got you blocked in the first place, at an absolute minimum I'd expect any loosening of sanctions to be on the strict understanding that any fucking around—by our definition, not yours—will lead to an immediate re-banning from Wikipedia. From the above request I'm not seeing the slightest indication that you understand why you were banned in the first place; it wasn't a case of "Edits that do not align with Wikipedia's pillars", it was a case of your treating our website as your personal sandbox and creating pages with such content as "I dreamt that the article Elevator was deleted per one of the WP:XfD processes and SALTED. I was trying hard to try and get the article restored. Of course, I was dreaming, so it was not really deleted, but I was wondering where it went. I got this weird interwiki link to a different wiki that had an article on "elevator" but things when you are dreaming do not make sense. I sent an email to the deleting admin, tried to list a deletion discussion, etc. That was only one part of a longer dream where I was going to the California Academy of Sciences. I was trying to get the deleting admin blocked and desysopped. No one undeleted the article, and no one was blocked. Then I woke up after seeing an elevator in my dream.", and creating intentionally disruptive templates like Template:Tilt to assist your disruption of Wikipedia. ‑ Iridescent 20:37, 16 May 2019 (UTC)
• Consider an article FuelRod which this editor wrote recently. It has two sources, one of which is a press release and the other of which is the promotional outcome of a press release. Awesome Aasim, why are adding product promotional junk like this to the encyclopedia? Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 21:53, 16 May 2019 (UTC)

• Do you know how much cleanup it would require to get it to Wikipedia standards? If it is too much, then maybe move it to userspace or draftspace so I can work on it more.

If it only requires a little fixing, then maybe you can move it to draftspace and tell me what needs fixing? Awesome Aasim 22:03, 16 May 2019 (UTC)

• I just came within a whisker of AfDing it myself. Andy Dingley (talk) 23:58, 16 May 2019 (UTC)

• Awesome Aasim, my advice to you is simple: Do not try to use press releases or content that clearly derives from press releases to try to establish the notability of businesses or products. That is both promotional editing and really bad editing. Why should we loosen your sanctions when you show that you do not understand the basic concept of notability and how to establish it convincingly? Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 07:26, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

• I can see no reason to remove these sanctions. They're not a block, they're not even onerous. Despite being unblocked back in August, you've only made a few hundred edits. This is neither enough to rebuild community faith in your contributions, nor do I see that these sanctions have been significantly restricting your editing. I'm not strongly against this removal, if others support it, but I'd want to see more editing before I pushed for it myself. Andy Dingley (talk) 23:57, 16 May 2019 (UTC)
• No set timeline - This is not a statement on the other requested changes. However I specifically oppose a shift from the other limitations remaining on an indefinite basis to a set timeline. We've no idea what your editing activity level will be in the future - if this was implemented then there's the risk the editor could just "wait it out" without much involvement. I'm not fundamentally against time-limited TBANs (in fact I've !voted for one last week), but the extremely severe breadth and depth here makes me nervous to do so. Nosebagbear (talk) 15:53, 17 May 2019 (UTC)
• Can anyone explain this? [6]

Or, why has User:Awesome_Aasim been turned into some sor tof uneditable redirect to Meta:User:Awesome_Aasim? This shouldn't be happening. It shouldn't be happening with a joker like this. Andy Dingley (talk) 23:03, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

See meta:Global user pages. This is a feature of all Wikimedia projects. Awesome Aasim 00:13, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

Calm down with the rhetoric, jeez. Global userpages are pretty common (see AGK), there's no issue with any editor having one, and there's no need to personally attack editors you have complaints with. --qedk (t 桜 c) 09:47, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

Why are these IP addresses currently blocked indefinitely?

I see that some IP addresses are blocked indefinitely. Some are blocked because they're used on Tor or it's an open proxy. However, the IPs that I'm listing here are not blocked under those reasons.

• 65.31.98.71 (Pre-2009 block)
• 66.91.35.165 (Just only one block)
• 67.53.130.69 (Pre-2009 block)
• 76.10.176.221 (School)
• 77.115.31.71 (Just only one block)
• 82.71.49.124
• 96.243.149.64 (1 month to indefinite)
• 164.127.71.72
• 178.36.118.74
• 195.194.39.100 (School)
• 199.216.164.10
• 202.93.8.68 (Just only one block, but it's a proxy)
• 206.15.235.10 (School)
• 207.99.40.142 (Hmm a more recent one)
• 209.80.150.137 (School)
• 216.56.8.66 (School)

Is it because the multiple long term blocks the IP get wasn't enough to stop the vandalism from those IP addresses? Thanks! INeedSupport ^:3 02:28, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

Each of these were blocked because the administrator believed it was the right thing to do to protect the encyclopedia. Many are schoolblocks where, as you say, multiple long term blocks were insufficient to protect the encyclopedia from vandalism, some are IP addresses used by banned editors (most of which were proxies), there is another blocked proxy and an IP address used for vandalism only. Indefinite blocks are much less common today as they have become deprecated in recent years. There was a proposal just a couple of weeks ago (you are probably aware of this) to lift all indefinite blocks on individual IP addresses placed in 2008 or before, which was overwhelmingly approved so we should see many fewer indefinite blocks in total soon. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 04:55, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

@Malcolmxl5: Hmm, so IPs can get indefinite blocks too if things gets too out-of-control. I was indeed aware of the discussion about the pre-2009 blocks. Thanks for telling me that! INeedSupport ^:3 19:18, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

Permissions change at Portal:Portal pointing to this page?

While doing some digging at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2019 May 11#P:A I stumbled on Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Portal (3rd nomination) and Portal:Portal, which was deleted after the content was moved to Wikipedia:Portal:Portal. After that move/deletion, someone seems to have changed the permissions at that deleted page to be template protected (or some other change in permissions that I can't identify). Why was this done? (And by whom? - I would have reached out to them directly if this was noted in the page's log, but it is not nor is there any mention of anything odd regarding permissions at the info page.) I noticed this when trying to create a redirect to Portal:Portals (really Portal:Contents/Portals with {{Rcat shell|{{R avoided double redirect|Portal:Portals}} {{R to plural}} {{R unprintworthy}} }} to avoid a double redirect) but I was greeted with this permissions error when I attempted to edit the page:

Permission error

You do not have permission to create this page, for the following reason:

(The latter bullet is why I am here; note I changed the link to point to WP:ANB instead of Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard so that it displays as a link instead of being bolded.)

Am I missing something obvious about this? Am I in the right place? - Paul^T+/_C 14:54, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

@Psantora: Below the deletion log at Portal:Portal, I see that the title blacklist prevents its creation. Warning: This page can only be edited by administrators, template editors, and page movers because it matches the following title blacklist entry: Portal( talk)?:Portal( talk)?.* <errmsg=titleblacklist-custom-repeated-namespace-prefix> —DoRD (talk)​ 15:15, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

@DoRD: I'm clearly missing something because I see no such warning. I've also checked when logged out. The permissions error is slightly different in that case, but there is still nothing about the warning you mention. Can you provide a link to the page with that warning? - Paul^T+/_C 15:23, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

I'm not seeing it when logged-out, either. Strange...but I don't really understand the technical wizardry behind the blacklist. If nobody else has a good answer here, WP:VPT can probably help you. —DoRD (talk)​ 15:34, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

Fair enough. I'll wait a bit before posting there and/or hopefully someone else can chime in here as well. (Would you mind still providing the link where you saw that warning?) Regardless, given the error message's link to this page there has got to be some reason why it points here. - Paul^T+/_C 15:57, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

I just clicked on one of the redlinks above to get https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Portal:Portal&action=edit&redlink=1. —DoRD (talk)​ 16:20, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

Psantora, you're in the correct place. DoRD has noted the blacklist entry, which is there to prevent editors from creating a page with a duplicate namespace at the start. Those with permission to create the page (have the tboverride (Override the disallowed titles or usernames list) right: admins, template editors, and page movers) will see MediaWiki:Titleblacklist-warning instead of MediaWiki:Titleblacklist-custom-repeated-namespace-prefix. Those without permission to create pages (don't have the createpage (Create pages (which are not discussion pages)) right: those not logged into an account) see MediaWiki:Noarticletext-nopermission. I created the redirect. — JJMC89 (T·C) 00:45, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

SleeplessNight12 CBAN appeal

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Here. Notifying everyone about this at their behalf. As I wrote there, it's a pretty good appeal, but it may be too early. As the blocking admin, I have no strong view, for or against, the appeal. El_C 20:42, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

• Decline unblock This looks like a CBAN from the blocking discussion. User was banned for harassment and bigotry. Due to the homophobic nature of the harassment, this is too soon for my liking, and suggest to wait at least 6 months per SO. Valeince (talk) 20:56, 18 May 2019 (UTC)
• Support on very short ROPE. I fully understand, and can agree with, Valeince's concerns- yes, it is far too soon for a proper SO. However, I think they should be given one chance- unblock, and if they stray anywhere within a whiff of homophobia, reblock and no more appeals for six months. -A lad insane (Channel 2) 00:42, 19 May 2019 (UTC)
• Support unblock. I went back and forth on this. Sleepless's expressions of antipathy to homosexuality and atheism were inappropriate. But though I lean toward Valeince's view of "wait", I had to ask myself "wait for what?" Unlike some appeals where acknowledgement of the error has to be dragged out of the editor, Sleepless is fully owning the problem and promising that it won't be repeated. I don't think one or two or six months more will make them more apologetic. I do think they should be reblocked if any future statements (edit summary, talk page, etc) reflect on other editors rather than on edits. Schazjmd (talk) 19:02, 19 May 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose unblock/unban at this time. I note at User talk:SleeplessNight12#Indefinite block the comment "I sincerely apologize to User:Contaldo80 for saying stupid things I did not mean" (my emphasis). The apology is a good start, but have a read of Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1009#SleeplessNight12 and ask yourself if the "I did not mean" bit really is honest. No, the religious fundamentalism behind those comments is clear, and the opinions expressed clearly were meant. SleeplessNight12 clearly did believe that homosexuality and atheism were driving Contaldo80's edits, and meant exactly what they said at the time. We should have very low tolerance for religous/homophobic bigotry here. I think the minimum SO period will provide time for SleeplessNight12 to properly think about how to interact with people from all sorts of diverse backgrounds, and I do think that time to think is needed. In my view, a future appeal should focus on a commitment by SleeplessNight12 to leave their religious judgment at the door when they enter Wikipedia. SleeplessNight12, I fully respect your right to your religious beliefs (as I do those of many people who work here just fine), but if you wish to edit here you will have to be able to interact in a non-judgmental way with people who think your religion is delusional nonsense, and with people that some in your religion would consider depraved blasphemers and sodomites. I'd consider welcoming you back once you have given that some serious thought and have considered, deeply, whether you can work in that environment. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 21:28, 19 May 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose: Too soon and showed absolutely no acknowledgment for the issue when it was here just a couple weeks ago. In fact it was everyone but the editor in question that was the problem. However, I would support an unblock ONLY if an experienced editor was willing to act as mentor for a couple of months. NJA | talk 01:37, 20 May 2019 (UTC)
• Decline unblock This person deliberately posted multiple vile attacks on other members of our community over several days as part of a discussion of their conduct at ANI, which is rather a different thing from snapping and saying dumb things. This conduct appears to have been motivated by what are usually deeply-held beliefs. It's hard to believe that this won't reoccur, and I don't think that we should run the risk of other editors being subjected to such attacks. Nick-D (talk) 09:53, 20 May 2019 (UTC)
• Support per Schazjmd above. GoldenRing (talk) 10:13, 20 May 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose per my original vote on this. What, in the editor's editing history, is so valuable that it offsets the ugliness they brought? If they strongly want to edit here, they can take some time (like six months) and formulate a more genuine apology than "I didn't mean it" nonsense. Grandpallama (talk) 10:22, 20 May 2019 (UTC)
• Very weak Support, with a topic ban on all topics related to Catholicism, atheism, homosexuality, broadly construed. This would include mentioning any of those topics. Any violations would result in an indefinite ban, and the user would have to wait six months per our standard offer. Rockstonetalk to me! 20:08, 20 May 2019 (UTC)
  • Oppose Upon further reflection, I think it's best if we give the user our standard offer. I understand that they are remorseful, but it's best to wait until they have calmed down. Six months, and if no further incidents and an illustration that they understand what they did was wrong, then I think it would be appropriate to let them back at that point. Rockstonetalk to me! 22:05, 20 May 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose no evidence that the benefits of unblocking outweigh the known potential for disruption. TonyBallioni (talk) 20:11, 20 May 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose, much too soon. @SleeplessNight12: I strongly recommend you to wait some months (preferably six) and to show yourself a good and thoughtful editor in the meantime, by constructive editing of one or more of the the sister projects . You're only banned from Wikipedia. Bishonen | talk 14:45, 21 May 2019 (UTC).
• I have declined the unblock request and advised the editor to wait a few months — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 08:10, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
• Support changing the block duration from indefinite to definite. Because the appeal has been judged as being too soon, the duration should be whatever is appropriate for a subsequent unblock appeal to be granted. It seems to me that an appeal at the right time would be granted, so I propose doing away with the bureaucracy of that process and simply auto-unblocking after some months. ~Anachronist (talk) 20:15, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Help doing a mass revert

Resolved

 – All reverted --DannyS712 (talk) 21:53, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

I thought I had setup User:MinusBot bot correctly, but turns out I didn't correctly filter out the list of articles to edit. I'd like some help mass reverting these edits. Basically all Wikipedia namespace edits, done on 18 May 2019, by User:MinusBot. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 21:07, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

@Headbomb:  Done --DannyS712 (talk) 21:53, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

@DannyS712: Thanks a bunch! Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 21:55, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

@Headbomb: No problem. It took a while, because I was rate limited, so stay tuned for a BRFA for rolling back bot edits (which would also avoid flooding recent changes with hundreds of reverts) --DannyS712 (talk) 21:56, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

Was this really 977 rollbacks, with no edits to fix the initial edits? That really seems like it should have been left to a sysop, as it sounds like a perfect usecase for markbotedits. ~ Amory (u • t • c) 00:30, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

@Amorymeltzer: They original edits were marked as bot edits already. Only the rolling-back edits would have benefited from markbotedits, which can also be done by having a bot with rollback rights; hence the BRFA I filed, Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/DannyS712 bot 40 --DannyS712 (talk) 00:35, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

...Yes, which is why, barring a bot being approved for "oops," I said the 977 rollbacks...should have been left to a sysop. ~ Amory (u • t • c) 00:41, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

MFD

WP:ANRFC#Deletion_discussions has a big backlog of MFDs. Eleven of them were opened over a month ago.

Please could some admins help clear at least some of them? --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 22:03, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

Well, I gave the RfC backlog a whack. El_C 04:48, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

I should add that it wasn't that I found the MFD backlog particularly daunting (as in difficult to evaluate), but just kinda boring. By contrast, the RFC backlog (list) was of far greater interest to me. El_C 16:15, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

I took care of the oldest 2 MFDs and will try to do more over the course of the next few days. At the moment there's approximately 19 aged MFDs sitting around, mostly for portals. ~ ONUnicorn^{(Talk|Contribs)}problem solving 19:27, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

Rox A

Hi,

Rox A (Singer, Music Director) and Rox A (Music Director, Singer) (likely the same person) are using their user pages as drafts or WP:FAKEARTICLEs about Arun Sharma a.k.a. Rox A. WP:NPOV without citation, those drafts or fake articles won't suit for the main space.

I have blanked the user pages but I don't know if it's the right practice on the English Wikipedia, and I don't know what message I could leave to explain what they're doing wrong.

Can some take a look?

Best regards --Lacrymocéphale 12:01, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

Checkuser note: Roxarunsharma, Rox A (Singer, Music Director), and Rox A (Music Director, Singer) are all the same. —DoRD (talk)​ 12:57, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

@Lacrymocéphale: The usual would be to tag it with {{db-spamuser}}. I've deleted both userpages as WP:G11 and blocked them both as socks of User:Roxarunsharma. If someone wants to block that account too, I have no particular objection; they haven't done anything objectionable as that account, but it seems unlikely they're here for the right reasons. GoldenRing (talk) 09:16, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

Thank you GoldenRing for linking this to a previous account. --Lacrymocéphale 09:25, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

Wiki protocol regarding copyright infringement

Looking for some history/feedback/experience here. In the Game of Thrones Season 8 article, a plot summmary for the series finale was added about a half hour after the episode had finished. I reverted the plot summary out as I thought it was a copyright infringement (noting COPYVIO by accident). I did so because the episode (the series finale), while being aired in North America, was not available to the general viewing public outside the US. Even within the US, Amazon and iTunes wait a period of time before making an episode available for streaming/download. I think that posting the plot summary potentially deprives the makers of broadcast revenue internationally - a copyright infringement.
Meeting some resistance at the article and article talk, I sought guidance at Project: Television but couldn't get a bead on the problem of past instances of potential (or actual) copyright infringement. I'm not forum-shopping; no one seemed able to address the issue of how Wiki-EN handles these situations.
I guess I am unsure how we have handled this problem in the past. What's the precedent? As always, your thoughts would be invaluable. - Jack Sebastian (talk) 06:42, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

COPYVIO is applicable is only if and only if an actual copyright is violated. So, no, unless the plot was published word-to-word by HBO, it's not copyright infringement. Most plots are written by Wikipedia editors who have watched the episode (read the book, etc.), and in more common or popular articles, they are sourced. Not exactly following policy, but that's how it is. --qedk (t 桜 c) 07:53, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

I'll clarify that I was not arguing that the edit summary was plagiarized. My sole argument is that - by publishing the plot summary less than a half hour after the episode premiered in the US - it robbed the makers of the show dividends based upon the number of viewers it could obtain in foreign markets. Even Amazon and iTunes didn't offer the episode until three hours after broadcast (so I have been told). How much would it have broken the wiki to wait 12-24 hours until the episode had become available to the general population? Why were we in such a hurry?

The example I've used elsewhere is that of people standing in line at a bakery to get a highly anticipated, freshly-made apple pie. Let's say that you are standing in the middle of this line and someone comes out of the bakery, claiming that the pie tastes like rotten apples or moldy chicken feet. How likely are you to remain in line to buy a pie?

In allowing the plot summary to be published before people could view the episode (ie. when it became available for viewing), we deprived the "bakery" of its dividends. Its copyright infringement, and absolutely no different than someone who uploads a torrent for others to view a movie or tv show without paying. - Jack Sebastian (talk) 09:15, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

Still not copyright infringement. Let's break it down for you, if you read a book before release (audience reads, movie premieres, etc.) and you write a review on it explaining the plot anywhere, it is not copyright infringement as long you attribute the author for the content. So, again, no, just because a plot summary exists does not mean: a) we are taking HBO's revenue b) that taking revenue indirectly (it's just your assumption btw) = copyright infringement. HBO does not own the plot summary because it is a audience rendition of the actual plot, hence, not copyright infringement. Torrenting a movie or TV show is classified as what is called an "illegal distribution of copyrighted material", which is a part of "copyright infringement", as owning the copyright gives you the right to distribute the content as well, and in the case of torrenting, is illegal because you are actually distributing the copyright content whereas here, it's merely a plot summary HBO has no rights to. --qedk (t 桜 c) 09:51, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

Or, to put it another way, copyright does not protect ideas, it protects the expression of those ideas. A plot summary is a new expression of the ideas it contains. GoldenRing (talk) 10:04, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

On the other hand, this plot summary is probably original research (yes, yes, I know than 99% if film articles are doing exactly this, including some I have written, but still...)--Ymblanter (talk) 10:09, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

OR isn't good, but primary sourced is fine. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 12:02, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

Not sure about the "not available outside North America" argument. It's available in the UK, and has been since 02:00 Gricehead (talk) 10:06, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

WP-custom is that when it is released it's "up for grabs", this goes for Marvel-films released in Europe before US etc. WP-custom is also that this will annoy someone [7].Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 12:05, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

Regarding plot summaries, they are their own, separate animals. THey are likely the only things that don't require sourcing but instead rely on group consensus for inclusion. That's made for some pretty annoying Lame flame wars, but it ends up being kinda beautiful when everyone finally agrees on a final version; to me, that's the second best part of Wikipedia.

Gricehead - Uk is part of the world, but it isn't the whole of the world (don't believe those silly BrExiteers). The ep wasn't immediately available to other places, like Indonesia and FarEast Asia.The Wiki-EN is read by English speakers in those places as well.

So, I am too narrowly interpreting the views on copyright infringement? - Jack Sebastian (talk) 15:58, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

It would appear so.--WaltCip (talk) 18:10, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

"posting the plot summary potentially deprives the makers of broadcast revenue internationally". I don't think we generally care even a single bit about the studio's profits (or lack thereof) are affected by WP:NPOV encyclopediac content. Same as we don't polish or hide negative details of movie stars, or corporate shenanigans that affect their sales or stockholder value. It's analogous to WP:SPOILER. Definitely not copyvio (as others have mentioned).DMacks (talk) 18:17, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

Rest assured, our posting plot summaries and other details of television shows helps, not hurts, the studios' bottom lines. I'm sure they're very grateful for our comprehensive, up-to-date coverage of their products. – Levivich 18:31, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

Okay, thanks for the input. I see the points each of you have made; I disagree with them somewhat. So, the consensus is that the possible copyright infringement isn't a big deal, right? - Jack Sebastian (talk) 00:24, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

No, the point everyone here is trying to make to you is that plot summaries are not copyright infringement. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 00:34, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

...as long as they are relatively short, that is. IANAL, but someone who is said "At some point, if you put in enough details, and if your summary takes several pages of text, you run the risk of being accused of creating a derivative work."[8] Fram (talk) 08:08, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

Ivanvector - Wait, were you thinking I was tilting at windmills about the use of plot summaries?? Noooo. It was solely the timing of the plot summary posting that I took issue with. I had really tried to make that clear.

The copyright infringement comes in when a plot summary is posted before it is available to the general Wiki-EN public. Since the plot summary was posted well before it could be broadcasted for the first time in other countries, it interfered with their ability to profit from their work. It was about fairness and not acting like a torrent site. - Jack Sebastian (talk) 09:41, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

In reply to this and your earlier point on the UK, Indonesia and "FarEast Asia", I'm fairly sure most copyrighted content in English isn't generally available to a big chunk of the English speaking population of North Korea. And North Korea has been party to the Berne convention since 2003 Copyright law of North Korea and Commons:Commons:Copyright rules by territory/North Korea. Nil Einne (talk) 10:29, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

Of course the more relevant point is perhaps that AFAIK, effect on the profit of a copyright holder only matters if what you are using is affected by the holder's copyright, and you are claiming the legal defence of fair use or in considering damages from your illicit use. If neither apply, and they shouldn't here since this should be freely licence content not NFCC content, then it's a moot point. Nil Einne (talk) 10:33, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

P.S. You may suggest those in North Korea who don't have access to copyrighted work also don't have access to the English wikipedia which I'm sure is generally true although I suspect there are cases where it's not and there's also the question over whether it matters. Maybe a better example is China and other countries where AFAIK legal availability of some works of fiction can be limited [9] but where the English wikipedia is available (or was until recently in the case of China). I would add while things have improved somewhat in recent years due to the risk of copyright infringement when released are staggered too much, in some cases where still talking about months before something is available in a number of countries again with access to the English wikipedia. Nil Einne (talk) 11:49, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

"Publishing the plot summary makes it less likely that people will download or stream the episode, as it has been ruined for them. Broadcasters lose revenue."has nothing to do with "We have infringed on their copyright" (whether or not it's true in and of itself). Copyright infringement is about copying someone else's work, and retelling a summary of a plot in one's own words is not that, regardless of the time lapse between the two or the commercial implications. Deprivation of revenue does not make something copyright infringement. We don't have an obligation to directly preserve HBO's bottom line (or anyone else's) beyond generally acting lawfully. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 15:10, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

This whole discussion seems less about whether or not releasing the plot early is copyright infringement (as it is quite clear that it isn't) but more about whether or not we SHOULD release the plot early to an audience that hasn't received the actual story yet. And truly I don't think it matters if we stay perfectly WP:NPOV. --NikkeKatski [Elite] (talk) 16:50, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

Well, I asked for some opinion on how to approach the matter and - after some clarifications - I got it. THanks, folks. :) - Jack Sebastian (talk) 14:50, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

Notice: Converted redirects not appearing in New Page Patrol

Tracked in Phabricator
Task T223828

It seems that lately, recreations of articles from redirects have not been going back into the new page patrol queue, contrary to WP:NPPREDIRECT. Please see this discussion for more info. Admins and NPPers, please try to keep a closer eye on any articles you turn into a redirect, and consider watching any articles you redirectify until this bug is fixed by WMF. Thanks! Kevin (aka L235 · t · c) 23:26, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

Is there an edit filter or querry that we can run so that any who are interested can still find and review these articles while we await a fix? Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 01:00, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

I'm not sure if it's duplicative, but I've added this: Special:AbuseFilter/992. It's track-only at the moment. Best, Kevin (aka L235 · t · c) 01:41, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

(Never mind, it's duplicative. The removed-redirect tag works better.) Kevin (aka L235 · t · c) 01:47, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

A silly (me) MfD closing

Hi! I just closed a MfD (Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/Draft:Game), I placed the {{subst:mfd top}} in the wrong place (below the heading), I then closed again, in the correct place (above the heading), but looks like I am still missing something as the wp:MfD page was displaying wrong (stoped rendering after this discussion). I really can not see what, though it probably be very very obvious... I commented out the inclusion, but then a bot undid it while cleaning up at 0:00... and now it looks fine, since there is another discussion above it. If anyone can check for whatever is wrong and tell me what to fix I would appreciate. When I wake up tomorrow... I go to sleep now... (it is 01:00 in Portugal... which is not helping, it seems) Thank you - Nabla (talk) 00:11, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

Oh... I forgot to place the {{mfd bottom}}! It was silly... :-) and thank you to User:BrownHairedGirl who fixed it! - Nabla (talk) 00:15, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

No prob, @Nabla. Easily done, and i have made that mistake a few times over the years. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 00:29, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

@Nabla: You might want to try using WP:XFDCLOSER for future closes which automates all that pesky template placement. Regards SoWhy 12:46, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

@SoWhy:, thanks, I will take a look someday. - Nabla (talk) 19:14, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

Resignation of BU Rob13

After careful reflection, I have decided to step down from my position on the Arbitration Committee, effective immediately. ~ Rob₁₃^Talk 05:19, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

Discuss this at: Wikipedia talk:Arbitration Committee/Noticeboard#Resignation of BU Rob13

User:RonBot

user:RonBot and it's owner (and admin) user:Ronhjones haven't edited since early April. One of RonBot's tasks is taking care of Category:Non-free files with orphaned versions more than 7 days old and without the bot keeping it clear it a tedious, time-consuming job. The backlog was up to 600+ yesterday and myself and others cleared it but it's now back at the 200 mark again. I've tried contacting Ron but without success so I don't know if his absence is temporary or long-term but is there anyone who could takeover RonBot or create another bot to deal with this task at least? Nthep (talk) 11:08, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

@Nthep: - probably worth also posting this on WP:VPT. Nosebagbear (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 12:04, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

There was some kind of userscript by Legoktm that allows one to quick-process these files, does someone know if it still works? Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 12:13, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

It still works but it's still time consuming dealing with 200 files rather than just those a bot has flagged up as needing a human check. Nthep (talk) 12:37, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

If you'd like more features added to the userscript just let me know and I can do my best. Legoktm (talk) 08:17, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

According to Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/RonBot, the code was created by DatGuy and was just run by RonBot because it needed admin rights. As such, I imagine any admin-bot operator could just take over using the freely available source. Also according to the BRFA, DeltaQuad was working on something similar, so she might be interested in taking over. Regards SoWhy 12:44, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

Pinging some other operators of admin bots: @MusikAnimal and Anomie: --DannyS712 (talk) 16:31, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

I can file to take over that. If anyone wants any other image tasks continued, I can file for those too. -- Amanda (aka DQ) 17:27, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

This is task #1 but if you want to file for #2, #3, #4 & #14 too that's great by me. Nthep (talk) 17:53, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

@Nthep: 2, 4, and 11 require some modules I am not aware of, and therefore it would also be harder for me to fix when broken. If someone else takes them, I won't have an issue, as I'll need time (something I don't have much of). #3 I could look at taking over without issue. -- Amanda (aka DQ) 23:26, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

Adminbot request

Just to call it out here per our normal process, a request for an admin to run an adminbot has been filed at WP:BRFA. Any commentary is welcome at Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/DeltaQuadBot 6. Thank you, xaosflux for WP:BAG 17:54, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

Help wanted with large and growing account creation backlog

The backlog of account creation requests presently exceeds 4 months and is growing. The assistance of multiple experienced Wikipedians (administrators or otherwise) is needed to keep up with the pace of incoming requests and work down the backlog. The delay is now long enough that many potential new editors may be losing interest due to the lack of response. The account creation process is important for recruiting users who are unable to create an account themselves as a result of being unable to complete a captcha, trying to register an account name too similar to the many existing account names, or who are trying to make good-faith contributions from a shared IP address that is subject to a block.

I am helping to work through these requests myself now but it will take multiple new people becoming involved to deal with the volume of requests.

Details on what is involved -- and how to sign up -- are at WP:ACC/Guide.

UninvitedCompany 19:23, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

Level 1 desysop of Nv8200pa

Under the Level 1 desysopping procedures the administrator permissions of Nv8200pa (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) have been temporarily removed as a suspected compromised account.

Supporting: Mkdw, AGK, Opabinia regalis, RickinBaltimore, Premeditated Chaos, SilkTork

For the Arbitration Committee; Mkdw ^talk 23:05, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

Discuss this at: Wikipedia talk:Arbitration Committee/Noticeboard#Level 1 desysop of Nv8200pa

User talk page can't be created

Resolved

 – page created, no comment on whether the warning would be appropriate. –xeno^talk 13:50, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

Can an administrator please add {{uw-paid}} to User talk:Pawankumar1977. Apparently the username is on the title blacklist, so the user's talk page cannot be created except by an administrator. Thank you. Peacock (talk) 13:38, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

@PCock: just a question: what are you basing the warning on? Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 13:44, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

I believe this user is a sock of a editor blocked for undeclared paid editing. Please see Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Piyushbhat. Peacock (talk) 14:21, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

I thought that might be why you were asking but it wasn't obvious to me. I've blocked them instead. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 14:41, 23 May 2019 (UTC)

... without realizing that xeno already created the page. Well, no matter. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 14:42, 23 May 2019 (UTC)