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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Iamstillqw3rty (talk | contribs) at 22:34, 6 February 2024 (→‎Blurb/RD: Sebastián Piñera). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Glossary

  • Blurbs are one-sentence summaries of the news story.
    • Altblurbs, labelled alt1, alt2, etc., are alternative suggestions to cover the same story.
    • A target article, bolded in text, is the focus of the story. Each blurb must have at least one such article, but you may also link non-target articles.
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  • The Recent deaths (RD) line includes any living thing whose death was recently announced. Consensus may decide to create a blurb for a recent death.

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Archives

February 6

February 6, 2024 (2024-02-06) (Tuesday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Politics and elections

Blurb/RD: Sebastián Piñera

Proposed image
Article: Sebastián Piñera (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb:  Former President of Chile Sebastián Piñera (pictured) is killed in a helicopter crash at the age of 74 (Post)
News source(s): Emol BBC Mundo
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Former Chilean president. I second Alsoriano97's comment, a blurb may be good. --Bedivere (talk) 19:18, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support although an article is needed for the crash. Jebiguess (talk) 19:52, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As far as I can know only a Spanish news agency (Agencia EFE) is confirming Piñera's death. I would wait for other RS to do so. In any case, since it is a possible death in a helicopter crash and taking into account that Piñera governed in two terms, the last one ending less than two years ago, we could value a blurb. Also the article needs revision in some aspects. _-_Alsor (talk) 19:55, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
BBC Mundo confirms (quoting govt statement). The rest'll follow shortly, no doubt. Moscow Mule (talk) 20:10, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The government has confirmed Piñera's death Bedivere (talk) 20:12, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb I'm not too familiar with Chilean politics, but the death of a recent former head of state, especially in a helicopter crash, seems noteworthy to me. Of course, time is needed to get the article up to snuff, but I don't see any issues with notability. DNVIC (talk) 20:14, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I would support a blurb due to his importance and the manner of his death, but the article has some cn tags.--Kacamata! Dimmi!!! 20:21, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support on notability While I'm squarely in the "maybe" opinion for former heads of state dying, the manner of his death definitely makes this a blurb-worthy event. ChaotıċEnby(talk · contribs) 20:27, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb A recent president (which means more people will remember him) and unusual circumstances. Johndavies837 (talk) 20:29, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb Recent head of state, notable life (protests, constitutional crisis), unusual circumstances of death. The Kip 21:17, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb per the other comments. Unexpected cause of death. --NoonIcarus (talk) 21:31, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose on quality (NPOV tag, as well as tense issues) but a blurb is reasonable here, more on the manner of death than his past. I don't think we would have posted his death as a blurb if it was natural. Masem (t) 21:35, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose blurb not a current head of state or head of government, even if he was president as recently as 2022. I don't think that the accidental manner of death warrants a blurb. I'm trying to think of whether or not I would support a blurb for Obama's or Trump's death if it was accidental like this, but to be honest I don't think I would for Obama, maybe for Trump since he's also running for President again; or if Stephen Harper died like this, but I don't think I would support a blurb for that either. JM (talk) 22:14, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The probability that Trump, Obama, Bill Clinton and even Jimmy Carter will be blurbed when they die, accidental or otherwise, is approximately 100%.  — Amakuru (talk) 22:33, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You...do realize we blurb previous heads of state, right? Piñera should be no exception. qw3rty 22:34, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb per all above. Notable former head of state. qw3rty 22:34, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: John Bruton

Article: John Bruton (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Irish Times Sky News
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Former Irish Taoiseach (prime minister). Sheila1988 (talk) 12:10, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Needs work Orange-tagged for NPOV since 2015. There's a bit of talk page discussion back in 2006 but more clarity on the issues is needed. Andrew🐉(talk) 12:21, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yemen's new PM

Proposed image
Article: Ahmad Awad bin Mubarak (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Ahmad Awad bin Mubarak (pictured) is appointed as Yemen's new Prime Minister, replacing Maeen Abdulmalik Saeed who was Yemen’s premier since 2018 (Post)
News source(s): [1] [2] [3]
Credits:
  • Oppose – because we don't have any information about him between 2018 and 2024. The gaps here are too big to be helpful for our readers. ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 12:43, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support on notability, oppose on quality for now - per Mable. Massive gap in article between 2018 and 2024 that should be fixed first. - Bucket of sulfuric acid (he/him | talk) 12:57, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support on notability, oppose on quality per the two above comments Lukt64 (talk) 14:00, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

February 5

February 5, 2024 (2024-02-05) (Monday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Politics and elections

RD: Jean Malaurie

Article: Jean Malaurie (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Le Monde
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Thriley (talk) 21:55, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Michael Jayston

Article: Michael Jayston (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Independent, Radio Times, Pinkvilla
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

British actor of very long experience and note. Challenger l (talk) 19:05, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Toby Keith

Article: Toby Keith (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): KWTV, Associated Press, New York Times
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Ks0stm (T•C•G•E) 09:17, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose some sections aren't cited. Harvici (talk) 10:03, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose The phrase "Three million spins" is not explained, and the reference provided is a dead link. And that's just from the first paragraph. Chrisclear (talk) 11:10, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
support! Very well known artist. More notable than most people in recent deaths lately 2600:6C5E:147F:858F:EC90:269B:E0C6:4127 (talk) 13:29, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The RD line only cares that the person was notable, not how notable they were compared to others that were also notable. Its not a popularity/fame vote. Masem (t) 13:33, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support on Notability — It is very clear Toby Keith was notable. Article isn’t in the best of shape at the moment, hence the wait. Actual “oppose” !votes make no sense, as an oppose is different than a wait and seems to indicate a true “no” to posting. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 14:25, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
!vote changed to full support. Article is in decent shape now. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 16:38, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose: At least four entire paragraphs uncited Aaron Liu (talk) 17:15, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
One of these paragraphs is a possible copyvio. Aaron Liu (talk) 19:22, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I’ve just discovered that even the first paragraph is a likely copyvio. Definitely in no state of posting. Aaron Liu (talk) 19:35, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The irony of saying "oppose !votes make no sense" while starting with "Support on Notability" when RD is not concerned with notability is palpable. Kicking222 (talk) 15:08, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Waits are essentially opposes. Aaron Liu (talk) 15:41, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment two {cn} tags remain, both in the "Early life and education" section. Otherwise, this article is good to go. Also moved this to February 5 as Keith died on that day. Vida0007 (talk) 17:45, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The first paragraph of the musical career section and most of the Acting career section are also unreferenced Aaron Liu (talk) 18:07, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Also, the 2nd paragraph of the “Political beliefs” section is mostly uncited. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 19:30, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose There are uncited statements scattered across the article, and I'm unconvinced that the statements in the lead paragraph are sourced elsewhere. Black Kite (talk) 19:35, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Charles III diagnosed with cancer

Re-closing. It's quite obvious through the snow that this won't be posted. 331dot (talk) 20:40, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Charles III (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ King Charles III is diagnosed with a form of cancer. (Post)
News source(s): BBC news
Credits:
It is not often a ruling leader is diagnosed with such a condition. This is my first ever nomination to ITN, so please go easy on me. Urbanracer34 (talk) 19:06, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support it is in the news and article is in good shape. Worth highlighting. 2A02:908:676:E640:1529:50D8:AC9D:7F61 (talk) 19:09, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Even as one of his subjects here in the UK, I don't think this passes the bar. We've been given so little information that it could be very minor (or indeed, not). Black Kite (talk) 19:10, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Good faith nomination, but ITN does not typically cover the personal health conditions of most individuals. Ornithoptera (talk) 19:12, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - Good faith nomination, but while this story is (as the nominator notes) unusual, it's not got the sort of immediate impact that most ITN stories have. GenevieveDEon (talk) 19:13, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Good faith nom, but not significant enough for ITN. 2G0o2De0l (talk) 19:15, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Good faith nom, as one of His Majesty's loyal subjects I'm afraid I have to say that this doesn't quite cross the line for inclusion (and it may not even be terminal). The C of E God Save the King! (talk) 19:18, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Many world leaders have had illnesses and treatments. It simply doesnt rise to the level of ITN inclusion.
Noah, AATalk 19:21, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Nothing has been announced that would indicate that this is a serious health issue. If it is, we can deal with it then. BD2412 T 19:27, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, If he dies from it and the head of state changes then that's significant; the illness itself isn't significant. Certainly news, especially in Commonwealth realms, but not news enough for ITN. JM (talk) 20:38, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Neutral wait until further details Lukt64 (talk) 20:38, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Ian Lavender

Article: Ian Lavender (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC News
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

English actor and last surviving cast member of Dad's Army. (Don't tell him, Pike!) The C of E God Save the King! (talk) 12:45, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose Due to an unsourced filmography. Support as article looks ready to go now. 2G0o2De0l (talk) 13:46, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, sources currently in article don't cover all of the information. I've only looked at the After Dad's Army section so far but I've checked the sources at the ends of the paragraphs and they don't mention a lot of the information. Suonii180 (talk) 14:07, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I've removed a reference from the article as I think the publication has lifted the information from Wikipedia and is therefore WP:CIRCULAR. However, I've started a discussion at the article's talk page in case the information was originally copied and pasted from elsewhere onto Wikipedia. Suonii180 (talk) 14:25, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support quality suitable for RD. Polyamorph (talk) 17:34, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted. Good work there. Black Kite (talk) 19:11, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Black Kite:, I've added a potential copyright violation tag to the paragraph relating to the reference in my comment above as the two paragraphs are identical. Reference was https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/dads-army-star-ian-lavender-9078725. I'm not sure if it should stay posted on the main page if it is potential issues with copyright. I've listed it at Wikipedia:Copyright problems/2024 February 5. Suonii180 (talk) 21:35, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

February 4

February 4, 2024 (2024-02-04) (Sunday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Disasters and accidents

Politics and elections

RD: Bob Beckwith

Article: Bob Beckwith (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [4]
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

New York firefighter who received national attention following the September 11 attacks.--CaptainTeebs (talk) 06:37, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support- Because of the Article significance Jlvshistory (talk) 06:56, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait - No major issues with the article, but additional sourcing prior to posting would be nice. Notability isn't a factor in RD noms. - Bucket of sulfuric acid (he/him | talk) 08:10, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    alright Jlvshistory (talk) 08:46, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait - I agree: additional sourcing would be good. I’ve checked 4 of the 7 references. Only The NY Post is unreliable, imo. The cause of death as "ground-zero related melanoma" is a “fake news” diagnosis by the NY Post: typical for this rag. Internet & WP searches never mention it as even a syndrome. That won’t work for Wikipedia. Of course, the Amer. Assoc. for Cancer Research reports a slightly higher incidence of cancer for 9/11 responders.- Trauma Novitiate (talk) 20:29, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) 2024 Salvadoran general election

Proposed image
Article: 2024 Salvadoran general election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In the 2024 Salvadoran general election, Nayib Bukele (pictured) is re-elected President of El Salvador. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In the 2024 Salvadoran general election, incumbent President of El Salvador Nayib Bukele (pictured) is re-elected.
Alternative blurb II: ​ In the Salvadoran general election, Nayib Bukele (pictured) is re-elected president with over 80% of the vote.
News source(s): Reuters BBC Forbes
Credits:

The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

With 70% of the votes counted, some reliable news sources have called the election for Nayib Bukele and several foreign leaders have congratulated him, however, the Supreme Electoral Court (TSE) has yet to make an official announcement. Please notify me if I need an official declaration from the TSE for this nomination, and if I do, I will update this nomination when it's publicized. This election has received significant foreign news coverage and is the first time since 1944 that a Salvadoran president has been re-elected. PizzaKing13 ¡Hablame! 18:50, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support Not a single CN tag, a quick scan indicates everything seems cited, very extensive article, a large aftermath section... there's not much more to ask for, except that none of the results tables for municipalities and departments are filled in yet. I don't know if that's a barring issue or not, so I'll wait to !vote and hopefully someone tells me whether or not it's fine. JM (talk) 19:59, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It appears that not all results have arrived yet, so it's less an issue about updating and more about waiting for them to drop. I think that we could run this as a first blurb, and that something more important to wait for is seat composition in parliament (which also hasn't been updated yet), as it would be interesting to note that the ruling party also has a majority in parliament. ChaotıċEnby(talk · contribs) 20:04, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support, very well-written and cited, and should be ITN/R if I'm not mistaken. ChaotıċEnby(talk · contribs) 19:59, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
checkY Done JM (talk) 20:01, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support, splendid article. Altblurb offered: no need for the year, "incumbent" could be challenged (murky leave of absence business), and the stonking majority is noteworthy. Moscow Mule (talk) 20:52, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support alt2 per Moscow. Aaron Liu (talk) 21:40, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support alt2 As per above, article seems to be of high quality. There seems to be some unfinished tables in the results section, but I expect these will be filled out soon when the results come out. 2G0o2De0l (talk) 21:44, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Article is in great shape. The OP's blurb seems fine. We typically don't post the actual margin of victory. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 22:08, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    However, the margin of victory typically isn't over 80% either. JM (talk) 22:54, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted Stephen 00:27, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Earl Cureton

Article: Earl Cureton (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): ESPN
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Basketball player who won two NBA championships.—Bagumba (talk) 11:30, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support articles looks fairly cited. Harvici (talk) 14:21, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support. With his two championships and how he affected NBA basketball, both as a player and afterward, I feel that this article is worth mentioning in the "recent death" part of Wikipedia's news. Mungo Kitsch (talk) 20:21, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Anyone with a Wikipedia article who dies gets featured on recent deaths as long as the quality is high enough. Significance is irrelevant to being featured on recent deaths. JM (talk) 20:27, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@JM2023: Good to know. I don't deal with the front page part of Wikipedia that much, but Cureton's article is highly informative and worth the front page's time, IMO. Mungo Kitsch (talk) 20:57, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Mungo Kitsch: JM was attempting to convey that RD !votes should comment on how WP:ITNQUALITY is met or not. Regards. —Bagumba (talk) 00:49, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support, obviously, as the subject's significance Jlvshistory (talk) 02:44, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note that as said above, significance is not a factor in RDs, only quality JM (talk) 11:43, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
understood Jlvshistory (talk) 15:22, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Admins willing to post ITN: Regardless of people being misled by significance, the article seems like it has no issues and no one has opposed yet. Aaron Liu (talk) 12:30, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Date of birth is unreferenced. Schwede66 15:08, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Date of birth is confirmed in all his profiles - NBA.com and basketball-reference.com - linked right in the infobox. Common info like height, weight, birth details, etc. are commonly well known for most professional athletes, at least NBA players. Rikster2 (talk) 15:20, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Schwede66: It's now sourced, but is a birthdate (or one potential Cn) a showstopper for an RD? —Bagumba (talk) 16:33, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Posted I’m sensitive to unreferenced birthdays. It either gets referenced or it comes out; I will not post it to the main page until that’s resolved. Schwede66 16:54, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Grammys

Article: 66th Annual Grammy Awards (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ At the Grammys, Miley Cyrus' "Flowers" wins Record of the Year, while Taylor Swift's Midnights wins Album of the Year. (Post)
News source(s): NBC liveblog
Credits:

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Given the issues on the recent Emmy blurb, this article is likely in worst shape, needing more citations and/or reconsideration of what content should be on there (like # of noms/wins by artist, etc.) Masem (t) 04:36, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose as mentioned by nom. Virtually no prose throughout the article. The Kip 04:43, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • Given what the Grammys are, which is a lot of awards, in addition to who presented and performed, this is going to be table heavy. There could be more prose around the ceremony as sites digest the information, but it is not absent prose and what I would expect pre-ceremony is there (nomination process, voting process, and general setup of the ceremony). But a lot of that is unreferenced, and again, while the award/nomination tables can be satisfied by a link to the Grammy's own page, the "# of noms/wins" we have determined cannot be left like that without clear sourcing to support it. It is a ways away. --Masem (t) 05:03, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Due to unsourced tables, particularly 66th Annual Grammy Awards § Multiple nominations and awards, which goes beyond simple WP:CALC. Collating information to find out that someone had 5+ nominations can be error prone. Better to be cited to a reliable source with the exact counts, which also rules out any doubt of an exhaustive table being some WP:OR fancruft (the few leaders can just be handled in prose, and undoubtedly already in reliable sources).—Bagumba (talk) 06:30, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak oppose – Article indeed needs more prose and citations overall. The "Performers" section gives more details about the ceremony than any other, and it's all written from the perspective of when performers were announced, which is largely no longer of encyclopedic history and just recounting news stories. I don't think the article needs much work to fulfill prose requirements, though. Don't know how necessary citations are for the tables, though I highly doubt we'll find a source counting up all the acts that received exactly two nominations, so there's some original research cruft here that can almost certainly be cut. ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 08:13, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Multiple poorly sourced sections, and, as per above, the multiple nominations section might be OR. 2G0o2De0l (talk) 13:42, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose A mass of tables with almost no prose. Modest Genius talk 14:39, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Lowitja O'Donoghue

Article: Lowitja O'Donoghue (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-02-05/tributes-for-indigenous-leader-lowitja-odonoghue/103426290
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Australian Aboriginal public administrator and Indigenous rights advocate. A highly regarded Australian. Her article is thorough, though it does have some cn tags. Several editors have been very busy updating the article since her death yesterday at the age of 91, so I'm hoping the tags will disappear. HiLo48 (talk) 01:31, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose based on a few CN tags, but as the nom says I'm confident they'll be cleaned up fairly shortly. The Kip 01:46, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose there are still 3 CN tags. JM (talk) 10:26, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ready All Citation needed tags have now been addressed. HiLo48 (talk) 23:05, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Article seems to be of sufficient quality. Every paragraph after the lede has citations and there are no CN tags anymore. 70.181.1.68 (talk) 05:53, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Admins willing to post ITN: This is ready and has been ready. We ought to recognize efforts to properly cite and quickly bring an article up to quality. Duly signed, ⛵ WaltClipper -(talk) 13:51, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted – Schwede66 15:31, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Ready) 2024 Chile wildfires (Viña del Mar fire)

Significant event in Chile. Nearly a hundred people are dead as a result of wildfires in Viña del Mar, Quilpué and neighboring area. Bedivere (talk) 23:13, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support on significance, although a lot of the sources (tweets) could be improved and replaced by better sources if possible. ChaotıċEnby(talk · contribs) 23:33, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose on quality per above due to poor sources, but support on notability. The Kip 00:22, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Improve article, then support Significant event, but, as per above, the use of over ten tweets as sources should be changed. 2G0o2De0l (talk) 00:46, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support on notability but needs to be improved per above JM (talk) 00:49, 5 February 2024 (UTC) quality is fine now JM (talk) 20:09, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support on notability but oppose on quality per @2G0o2De0l Bremps... 01:26, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support on notability, but the article quality should be improved before posting, as per above --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 04:37, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support on notability but articles needs improvement. Harvici (talk) 10:06, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support on Notability the death toll is major, and this is indeed very uncommon. Once article is improved per above, this will be ready. Editor 5426387 (talk) 13:29, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: at least 112 now dead: [5]. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:42, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support A disaster with a high number of fatalities. It is true that Twitter is too often used as a source, but by referencing tweets from the National Disaster Prevention and Response Service, a verified official account, I don't think it is dramatic to consider the article as ready to be posted. _-_Alsor (talk) 14:36, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I think that is the way to go. SENAPRED is an official government service which is continuously detailing the disaster developing. Also, the articles on the SENAPRED website are recurrently updated and so, some details get lost/wiped. Citing tweets, in this case, should be okay. Bedivere (talk) 15:50, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support it is indeed notible since over one hundred people are dead showing that The fire escalation is vast.3000MAX (talk) 18:46, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment as for quality, I've removed 4 of the 5 "better source needed" because per WP:RSPX if the author is a SME (which Senaprez is) then tweets are fine. There is now only one BSN tag and 0 CN tags. Everything else seems cited, so I think quality is good enough now. JM (talk) 20:08, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Would the official delegation of the O'Higgins area, a government organization, count as an SME? Aaron Liu (talk) 20:40, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm not sure if it's political or civil service, but I don't think it's an SME anyway because it's not specifically a civil defence / disaster relief / emergency preparedness / etc org. But it doesn't really matter for ITN because it's only one tag anyway and it's better than a CN tag. JM (talk) 20:44, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The delegation of O'Higgins is the official representative of the President in the region. The post exists since 2021 as the former office of intendant (governor) was abolished and its functions divided between the new presidential regional delegation and the reformed regional government. Bedivere (talk) 00:24, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Substantial disaster with a high death toll. The article does have some WP:PROSELINE issues but I think it's now better than our minimum requirements. Modest Genius talk 14:38, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Very notable and deadly wildfire(s); this clearly meets the ITN criteria. I also saw no sourcing issues in the article. Vida0007 (talk) 17:49, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support – Quality is sufficient and it's clearly notable. Getting more eyes on it is probably also the best thing that could happen to it re: continued updates and improvements. Penitentes (talk) 19:55, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Barry John

Article: Barry John (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Welsh and British Lions rugby international The C of E God Save the King! (talk) 18:44, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support GA, article looks to be in good shape. The Kip 19:04, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support The only things that really needed to be edited were the infobox, turning is into was and adding to the personal life section, all of which have been done. Helped rather nicely that it was already GA quality. CommissarDoggoTalk? 19:13, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - in good condition Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 18:54, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support suitable quality. Ollieisanerd (talk • contribs) 20:50, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Oleg Kononenko sets record for most time in space

WP:SNOW
Aaron Liu (talk) 21:46, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Oleg Kononenko (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Oleg Kononenko sets new record of 878 days in space and as a result has time travelled 0.021 seconds into the future (Post)
News source(s): Reuters
Credits:

Article updated
Count Iblis (talk) 17:28, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Such records (which likely can be easily broken in the future) are not good for ITN. --Masem (t) 17:39, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Article has two unreferenced sections, and is lacking sources in many other places. 2G0o2De0l (talk) 17:46, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Describing it as "time traveling into the future" is okay for pop science, not for an encyclopedia. ChaotıċEnby(talk · contribs) 17:49, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hey Now He's travelled 878 days into the future. That .021 second is just a tiny speck of bonus time, relative to our lowly scores. It doesn't replace the more impressive number. InedibleHulk (talk) 17:54, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose trivia that can be beaten in the future, especially the 0.021 seconds bit. Joseph2302 (talk) 18:20, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per above, maybe better-suited to DYK. The Kip 19:04, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose As this news is better suited for a DYK nom than an ITN nom. Could definitely see it getting approved there. Cheers, atque supra! Fakescientist8000 19:18, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per above, better suited for DYK. TomMasterRealTALK 19:45, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

2024 Senegalese presidential election

Article: 2024 Senegalese presidential election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The President of Senegal Macky Sall indefinitely postpones the presidential election hours before official campaign start (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian
Credits:

Nominator's comments: 1st time this has happened; a dispute dispute between the national assembly and the constitutional court over rejection of candidates was given as a reason for the postponement. Lawmakers are also investigating two constitutional council judges whose integrity in the election process has been questioned Abcmaxx (talk) 14:05, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose: Doesn’t seem like an unjust postponement, which decreases its notability especially since the accused haven’t been charged yet and the headline implies foul play. Aaron Liu (talk) 14:44, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Not sure if delayment of an election is notable in its own right. Did we post the Haiti elections getting postponed/cancelled/delayed, by any chance? Cheers, atque supra! Fakescientist8000 16:44, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Comment Still undecided, but there seems to be protests. Bremps... 02:41, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Was the postponement of the Haitian election nominated? Blaylockjam10 (talk) 06:53, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose It doesn't seem like anything has been caused by the postponement yet. Unless some significant event happens due to the postponement, or the election gets cancelled entirely, I don't think we should post, as I don't think the postponement on its own is notable enough. 2G0o2De0l (talk) 19:40, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per above. The Kip 00:22, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment We should mention the resulting protests in the blurb. Bremps... 04:01, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support – I am impressed by the well-written description of events and reactions present in the article. Borgenland did beautiful work expanding the article so quickly, and it seems like a very appropriate feature. ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 12:23, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Namibia's president Hage Geingob dies

Proposed image
Article: Hage Geingob (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Namibia President Hage Geingob (pictured) dies at the age of 82. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ President of Namibia Hage Geingob (pictured) dies at the age of 82, and is succeeded by Nangolo Mbumba.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Nangolo Mbumba succeeds President of Namibia Hage Geingob (pictured) following his death at 82.
Alternative blurb III: ​ Nangolo Mbumba succeeds Hage Geingob (pictured) as President of Namibia, following the latter's death at 82.
News source(s): President Hage Geingob is dead
Credits:

The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: Hage Geingob, the head of state and government, died in office after 9 years in power. He also served many years as prime minister. It probably won't get a lot of coverage in the West but a head of state dying in office is pretty rare. Johndavies837 (talk) 02:45, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Change in head of state/government, so ITNR item, and proposed altblurb. Reviewing target articles. The Kip 02:50, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • I was going to ask if the vice-president automatically takes power until the end of term, or if there is an alternate system in place. If it is the former, absolutely ITNR (but the article has missing citations). Even with that, death of a sitting leader regardless of how the gov't changes would still be a blurbworthy event. --Masem (t) 02:53, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose on quality as most of Geingob's article is woefully under-referenced, including two wholly-uncited sections. The other two are rather short, but as they're not the targets that's less of a concern. The Kip 02:52, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Conditional Support once the reference problem is fixed Lukt64 (talk) 02:56, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose on quality due to 3 unreferenced tags, but when those are fixed, support alt blurb. 2G0o2De0l (talk) 03:12, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose it is not fairly cited when it is fixed , Support alt blurb Harvici (talk) 04:33, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support on notability, but yeah, this is going to need work before quality is there to post on the main page. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 05:00, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post the new president In such cases, we usually emphasise the incoming leader rather than the outgoing one. In this case, that's Nangolo Mbumba (pictured) as there won't be elections for some time. The death of Geingob is not surprising because he was 82 and in ill-health. RD will suffice for that. Andrew🐉(talk) 08:16, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    That could've also applied to Elizabeth II. Bremps... 03:35, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Elizabeth II ruled for a very long time. Aaron Liu (talk) 03:48, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • I believe that the cause of death is cancer Heatrave (talk) 10:38, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Old Man Lives Per Andrew, there's a new 82-year-old "ruling" Namibia and that's the thing to commemorate, not another death. InedibleHulk (talk) 13:07, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurbing new president as that's the ITN/R story, not the death itself. JM (talk) 13:51, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Created alt blurb 2 Seems the support is more towards Nangolo Mbumba then the former president, And the picture, if this blurb is used, is the one above this post in replacement of the one in the box. TheCorriynial (talk) 16:22, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support alt blurb 3, clearest of all the alt blurbs, whilst also showing which is the ITN/R event (the new president) as opposed to the one that is more suited for RD (the old president dying). Cheers, atque supra! Fakescientist8000 19:21, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support alt3, same arguments as above. Mr. Lechkar (talk) 22:13, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support as ITN/R; suggest alt2 This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 23:23, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose on quality: Geingob's article is still a mess. Aaron Liu (talk) 23:40, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support alt1 pending improvements Geingob's article needs a lot of sourcing work. When the article is ready, my preferred blurbs are alt1 and alt2 in that order, but I don't oppose any of the proposed blurbs. I think the death of an incumbent is blurbworthy on its own, even if their advanced age made their passing seem inevitable (I am imagining how I'd !vote if this blurb were about the 81 year old Biden being succeeded by Harris, that'd likely be considered a notable death and not just RD-worthy). Maybe the picture can be Geingob at first and change to Mbumba after some time has passed?  Vanilla  Wizard 💙 00:14, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    What about a double image? Bremps... 02:34, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    That's a good idea, I'd support a double image as well  Vanilla  Wizard 💙 03:31, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment might be a copyright violation. There's a lack of EXIF data and it was cross-wiki-uploaded right after Nangolo Mbumba succeeded Hage Geingob. Bremps... 00:57, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    We can replace it with . Bremps... 02:09, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    According to Bloomberg, the image is from a national ministry. However, I can't find that ministry's policy, nor can I find where they have it. Aaron Liu (talk) 02:29, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Occam's razor suggests that a new user was enthusiastic about contributing to free knowledge but forgot to check if their contribution was actually free. Bremps... 02:36, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Obviously. I'm thinking about how we could perhaps retain that image, which is clearly superior in neutrality Aaron Liu (talk) 03:01, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Gotcha. The cowboy one is weird, so we can replace it with this image if we achieve consensus: . Upside is that the picture shows him in a suit, downside is that it's old enough to drive and depicts him with a black eye (?).
    There's also a guy called Kashindi Ausiku on YouTube who uploads his clips freely licensed (praise be), and has filmed Nangolo Mbumba several times. Would appreciate it if you or anyone else looked through his videos to find anything suitable. Bremps... 03:23, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Yeah,the cowboy one seems much better in comparison. Aaron Liu (talk) 03:50, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment It may be best to have both articles bolded. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 06:56, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Alt Blurb 2 or 3 a death of a current head in state is always important enough to post Setarip (talk) 15:36, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) The Tortured Poets Department

(NON-ADMIN CLOSURE)
Being WP:BOLD and WP:SNOW closing this good-faith nomination. Welcome to this project Bsoyka. Looking forward to seeing more of you around.

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: The Tortured Poets Department (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Singer Taylor Swift announces her eleventh studio album, The Tortured Poets Department, during the 66th Annual Grammy Awards. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Singer Taylor Swift announces her eleventh studio album, The Tortured Poets Department.
News source(s): New York Times
Credits:
Nominator's comments: Hey all! This is my first time nominating at ITN, so please forgive me if I'm missing something. This seems like a significant announcement that is already appearing in major news sources and I feel it should be mentioned here. Thanks in advance for the feedback and corrections! Bsoyka (t • c • g) 03:28, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose good faith nomination Welcome to ITN. At the very least, we should post the actual album release instead of an announcement. However, the release of a creative work is seldom (if at all) featured on ITN due to concerns over being promotional. Cheers, Bremps... 03:32, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Gotcha, that makes complete sense—I appreciate the helpful note. Bsoyka (t • c • g) 03:37, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It also usually isn't big news that most people would otherwise search for on WP instead of, e.g., just streaming it. Aaron Liu (talk) 03:51, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Taylor Swift announcing an album isn't notable enough for ITN. Welcome here, hope this doesn't scare you from contributing — it's never a bad thing to try! ChaotıċEnby(talk · contribs) 03:38, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose good faith nom, per above. The Kip 03:40, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

February 3

February 3, 2024 (2024-02-03) (Saturday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Politics and elections

RD: Wee Cho Yaw

Article: Wee Cho Yaw (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): 1
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Singaporean businessman. Led United Overseas Bank to one of big 3 banks in Singapore and Southeast Asia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.15.74.208 (talk • contribs)

  • Oppose Article is poorly-cited, including two wholly-unreferenced sections. The Kip 01:53, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Vittorio Emanuele, Prince of Naples

Proposed image
Article: Vittorio Emanuele, Prince of Naples (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb:  Vittorio Emanuele, Prince of Naples (pictured), son of the last King of Italy, Umberto II, dies at 86. (Post)
News source(s): Reuters
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
  • RD only, not ready Not a notable event for a death blurb, but notable individuals are eligible for RD. This one needs a lot of sourcing. – Muboshgu (talk) 23:54, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • No blurb, not ready regardless Not a notable person in his own right (neither was his death notable) enough for a blurb, sourcing needs quite some work done (orange tag + CN tags in the article). Cheers, atque supra! Fakescientist8000 00:04, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support RD when ready, oppose blurb - Non-reigning royals are generally not going to be serious considerations for a blurb. (I would have thought about supporting one for Otto von Habsburg, but he had had a long and distinguished career as a European politician largely separate from his ancestral title.) GenevieveDEon (talk) 00:39, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support RD Oppose Blurb definitely not death-blurb worthy This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 01:04, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose RD on quality due to orange tag. Oppose blurb - a controversial figure, sure, but not up to the standard we typically hold for blurbs. The Kip 01:10, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support RD when ready, neutral on blurb The quality of article needs to be improved before posting. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 01:46, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb, support RD when ready This is not significant enough for a blurb, especially because he was not actually a reigning royal. This is not yet ready for RD due to various sourcing issues throughout the article. 2G0o2De0l (talk) 02:28, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb old man dies, ITN is not an obituary. JM (talk) 13:43, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support RD, Oppose blurb - RIP, Vittorio IV. But unfortunately, this doesn't warrant a blurb PrecariousWorlds (talk) 15:33, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support RD when ready, oppose blurb - not notable enough to be listed separately from other RDs. Mr. Lechkar (talk) 12:02, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose blurb, if he was king or former king I'd consider it, but a prince with no history of reigning, especially with the abolition of the monarchy so long ago, shouldn't be given a blurb. ChaotıċEnby(talk · contribs) 12:13, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@GenevieveDEon, MtPenguinMonster, 2G0o2De0l, and Mr. Lechkar: Sorry for the notification, but is there any update as to when this will be added to RD? Thanks. - Therealscorp1an (talk) 05:43, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The article still has four CN tags, so some sourcing still needs to be done. I think it should be fine to post once these are dealt with. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 06:39, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Aston "Family Man" Barrett

Article: Aston "Family Man" Barrett (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Rolling Stone
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Decent shape. Natg 19 (talk) 23:40, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Very weak oppose as birthplace is uncited. Otherwise, a bit short, but good to go. The Kip 01:12, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • Another editor has subsequently added a massive amount of unreferenced material, so no longer “very weak” from me. The Kip 04:39, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose There are four unreferenced tags, so definitely not yet ready to go. 2G0o2De0l (talk) 02:31, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Only 253 words of prose? That's a bit stubby. Anything more to write about him? After the prose, there is a long string of bullet-points that needs sourcing done. Please add more REFs. --PFHLai (talk) 02:45, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose This is far from 'decent shape'. I counted 4 orange tags and an additional CN tag in the prose, and there is quite a miniscule amount of prose. Please fix as soon as you possible can. Cheers, atque supra! Fakescientist8000 20:16, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    For what it's worth, upon nomination, the article was considerably shorter and only a CN or two away from posting. Another editor then added a significant amount of unreferenced content, resulting in the orange tags. The Kip 21:39, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Is there anything preventing us from removing that? Bremps... 01:24, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    No. Unsourced content may be challenged and removed. JM (talk) 01:27, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @JM2023 @The Kip @Fakescientist8000 *Thanos snap* Bremps... 03:45, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Per my edit summary, please check more carefully before erasing other editors' work. Funcrunch (talk) 03:49, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Sorry, that was my bad. Bremps... 03:58, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I've done a fair amount of editing on this article today and have added some sources, but at least for RD listing purposes, I think it would be good to pare the discography down to a select sample rather than trying to source every single listing. Funcrunch (talk) 04:03, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Sounds good. I don't edit music articles a lot, so could you clarify for me whether it's the editor's choice in what's listed or is it something else? Bremps... 04:08, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm not sure about specific guidelines for discographies on musician bios, which is why I'm hoping others will pitch in. Funcrunch (talk) 04:20, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I don't know the absolute specifics, but to be fair: if you can't find a reliable source to ref an item, as noted above, unsourced content may be challenged and removed. There's nothing mandating that it must be in the article. The Kip 04:45, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Agreed; I wasn't the one who added the huge unsourced discography in the first place, so have no investment in keeping it in that state. I just wanted the chance to add at least a few sources. Funcrunch (talk) 04:47, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I've pinged WP:WikiProject Musicians and WP:WikiProject Reggae for editing assistance. Funcrunch (talk) 04:57, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

New First Minister of Northern Ireland

Proposed image
Article: Michelle O'Neill (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Michelle O'Neill (pictured) becomes First Minister of Northern Ireland, marking the first time the position is held by an Irish republican. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Following a twenty-month Northern Ireland Executive formation, Michelle O'Neill (pictured) becomes First Minister of Northern Ireland, marking the first time the position is held by an Irish republican.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Following a twenty-month Northern Ireland Executive formation, Michelle O'Neill (pictured) becomes First Minister, marking the first time the position is held by an Irish nationalist and by a Republic of Ireland-born person.
Alternative blurb III: ​ Following a twenty-month Northern Ireland Executive formation, Michelle O'Neill (pictured) becomes First Minister, marking the first time the position is held by an Irish nationalist and by a person born in the country of Ireland.
News source(s): BBC News, Sky News, The Guardian, Al Jazeera, DW, NY Times, Washington Post, CNN
Credits:

Article updated

I have decided to nominate on account of "assume good faith". Described as "historic" by several sources, although as for whether it is considered notable enough for ITNR, I'm leaving that for the community to decide. Mr. Lechkar (talk) 22:43, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • This is not ITNR, I checked and this position does not fall into that which is tracked on List of current heads of state and government. There may be merit to indicate this being the first person from N. Ireland to actually serve as a Minister for the gov't of Ireland. (I had considered nominating this but felt this wouldn't meet the consensus here) --Masem (t) 23:01, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support with a different blurb based on Altblurb 1. It's the restoration of power-sharing in the Province that's the main headline here, but I do think that if we blurb that, it's worth mentioning Ms O'Neill taking office. Contrary to what Masem has said, Michelle O'Neill is the first person to serve as First Minister of Northern Ireland who was not originally from NI - she was born in the Republic of Ireland. And she's also the first politician of Irish Republican affiliation to hold the post, which is what's being highlighted here. GenevieveDEon (talk) 23:10, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
ETA: I would support altblurb3 if 'nationalist' were changed to 'Republican'. It's a less confusing and arguably more specific term. GenevieveDEon (talk) 00:43, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
With the exception of the BBC source in the nomination, which is strange because other BBC articles say nationalist, all of the UK sources say nationalist. Additionally, there are three political designations in the NI Assembly; unionist, nationalist, and other. If we're going by the designations used by the NI government, Irish nationalist would be more correct than Irish republican. Sideswipe9th (talk) 00:47, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support with a different blurb. As a NI native, the two most notable things about this are that we finally have a devolved government again after 24 months of political deadlock, and that O'Neill is the first Irish nationalist to hold the lead position in the Northern Irish government since the creation of the province in 1921. I'd suggest that the blurb includes both pieces of information. Sideswipe9th (talk) 23:11, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Following re-writes I'd support alt blurb 2 over the others. Sideswipe9th (talk) 00:25, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Now that it's been added, I'd support the new alt blurb 3 over the others. Sideswipe9th (talk) 00:47, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Oppose While interesting from a historical trivia perspective, politically its significance is doubtful. Sinn Fein got all of 29% of the vote in the last election. The reason they hold the position of FM as I understand it, is because the unionist vote was severely fragmented. They are trying to pretend that this represents a substantial movement towards NI joining the Irish Republic, which is nonsense. A solid majority of NI electorate remain firmly unionist. -Ad Orientem (talk) 23:13, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That seems like an unhelpfully partisan interpretation of the story, which is being presented in the terms used above by sources such as the BBC. The blurb, and the story, say nothing about the alleged political adherence of the NI electorate. GenevieveDEon (talk) 23:17, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
While interesting from a historical trivia perspective, politically its significance is doubtful. Hard disagree. O'Neill is the first Irish nationalist politician to be the head of government for Northern Ireland, since its creation in 1921. In terms of the history of the province, this is incredibly significant. If I may be bold in my comparison, this has the same level of significance within Northern Ireland as Barack Obama becoming the first African-American President the US. Sideswipe9th (talk) 23:22, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I would agree with your analogy if Barrack Obama had won election with 29% of the vote on a platform of uniting the United States with Canada. -Ad Orientem (talk) 23:27, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You can't directly compare vote percentages between the Northern Ireland Assembly and the US Presidential Election in that manner, as they are two entirely different electoral systems, with two entirely different mechanisms for voting. And the significance isn't that O'Neill advocates for Irish unification, Sinn Fein have been doing that pretty much since the creation of the province. The historical significance is that O'Neill has become the first Irish nationalist politician, of any party, to hold the position as head of the Northern Irish government. Until today, every First Minister for Northern Ireland and every Prime Minister of Northern Ireland had been a unionist politician. Sideswipe9th (talk) 23:42, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Again, this sounds like historical trivia based on an electoral fluke. I am not seeing the long term significance here. -Ad Orientem (talk) 23:54, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It is not an electoral fluke. Northern Ireland is not a two party state, it is a multi-party state that has 5 major political parties; Sinn Féin, SDLP, DUP, UUP, and Alliance, and three political designations; unionist, nationalist, and Other. Since the creation of the Northern Ireland Assembly in 1998, the highest vote share for any political party was 30.1% in the 2007 election. Sinn Féin's vote share of 29% is about average for all of the historical holders of the First Minister role.
The long term historical significance is that in the 103 years since the creation of Northern Ireland, there has never been a non-unionist head of government. Other than going into the deep, and contentious history of Northern Ireland and the intentional demographic choices made during the creation of the province to ensure there would always be a unionist majority government, I don't know how to state it in any other frames of reference than I already have. Sideswipe9th (talk) 00:19, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Basically every thing you have said here is misleading at best and incorrect at worst. Both the Republican and Unionist votes are "fragmented" as you put it, and always have been. There are numerous parties with distinction beyond their position on the union. As for "A solid majority of NI electorate remain firmly unionist" it is a plurality, not a majority, let alone a "solid" one, and polling neither asks and nor records a level of "firmness" in that plurality. GreatCaesarsGhost 23:55, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose it is the end of a long political drama/negotiation in a region that is not sovereign. _-_Alsor (talk) 23:34, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Ground breaking major news, with the political wing of the Irish Republican Army becoming the First Minister of this country. This is the first republican first minister. And comes with the restoration of democracy and government in Northern Ireland after 2 years of direct rule by London. Nfitz (talk) 23:38, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support like others, on the dual significance of the restoration of government and the first republican first minister. GreatCaesarsGhost 23:55, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I was going to nominate this based on the exceptional length of time that Northern Ireland has not had an Executive, and because it lets the Windsor Framework go ahead, which is part of Northern Ireland Brexit terms. The Framework is also part of the reason why Northern Irish political parties agreed to have an Executive again.
    In terms of the blurbs, alt1 is not accurate - power-sharing has been in place since 1999 and the creation of a Northern Ireland Executive. Every N.I. government has had power-sharing and it is not the reason the government has finally been restored. All of the others are fine for use, though alt3 seems bland and doesn't provide the context required for ITN. Kingsif (talk) 00:09, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Following further consideration, I have now adjusted the blurbs and removed alt3. Mr. Lechkar (talk) 00:16, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In future, it is better not to adjust blurbs that people have already !voted on. As alt1 has been changed, I do not outright oppose it, but it lacks some of the context. Kingsif (talk) 11:25, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support alt2 Based on comment above. I might prefer an alt that also mentions the Windsor Framework, but trying to summarise that seems difficult and it would make a long blurb too long. The length of time that Northern Ireland has been forming a government, and the first nationalist First Minister, are notable (as much as it is doubtful that the latter will mark a change in how the Executive functions since last time). Kingsif (talk) 00:09, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose subnational. Banedon (talk) 00:25, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, while subnational, massive political significance as the first-ever non-unionist First Minister, advocating for Irish unification. ChaotıċEnby(talk · contribs) 00:29, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - Northern Ireland is not sovereign (in any sense). A US state is more sovereign (in some senses) and we'd never post a governor's election. -- RockstoneSend me a message! 00:34, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Would you post a governor's election, if the governor in question was from a former terrorist group, and the state had been without a government for 2 years, with the President appointing a governor with unlimited power for that 2 years? Nfitz (talk) 05:12, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Well, if something like were to happen, federalism would be dead. -- RockstoneSend me a message! 08:29, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That's kind of fatal to your analogy, then. GenevieveDEon (talk) 08:46, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's not. If anything it strengthens my argument; there's no such thing as federalism in the UK; its powers are devolved. -- RockstoneSend me a message! 05:29, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • (edit conflict)Support alt0, alt1, or alt3 (which I've added above) and oppose alt2. The term "Republic of Ireland" is a bit odd for Hiberno-English and "Ireland" in indistinguishably the common name of the political entity in which she was born. While the role nominally subnational, it's also an appointment with important international implications given that she's the first Irish nationalist in the role. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 00:35, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    As RoI is common, especially when wanting to make sure people know what entity you're referring to (the Island of Ireland is also "just Ireland", there is nothing indistinguishable about RoI claiming this label at all) I have to add that I would oppose alt3, the current version, as with this lack of clarity it could be perceived to be advocating that NI and RoI are or should be unified, taking a partisan stance at the heart of this problem. I also think it is incredible someone would fully oppose an alt because it is, in their view, too accurate. Kingsif (talk) 11:31, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose This is a matter of local government and, in terms of population, is like being the Mayor of Greater Manchester or Governor of Idaho. Andrew🐉(talk) 00:45, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose A local jurisdiction in an area that is not sovereign had a politician elected with differing political views from the norm. Think if a Texas secessionist were elected governor. Big news? Probably. Notable for ITN? Probably not. Same thing applies here. Cheers, atque supra! Fakescientist8000 01:09, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I imagine that if a Texas governor was part of an international political movement to create a new country of Texas, and got elected governor on that basis, we would probably post that at ITN. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 01:25, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    We don't have to imagine. We had a similar nomination about Texas recently. That story is still getting plenty of international coverage. In China, it's widely understood as a civil war and there's plenty of other international coverage too. But it still wasn't posted at ITN. Andrew🐉(talk) 07:44, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That's because the governments of both Texas and the USA are continuing to function normally, and the 'civil war' stuff is widely understood to be active misinformation. GenevieveDEon (talk) 08:46, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It still seems to be a big story at the NYT: At Rally for Border Security in Texas, Fears of ‘Invasion’ and ‘Civil War’: "Concerns over potential violence followed the convoys as the federal government and Republican state leaders appeared to be on an increasingly imminent collision course..." Andrew🐉(talk) 09:38, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Fakescientist. The Kip 01:13, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Oppose due to this being a regional election. However, I might be swayed to support, particularly due to articles such as this saying that the election is a "landmark moment" for "the broader region". 2G0o2De0l (talk) 03:23, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm not sure what election you are referring to here, User:2G0o2De0l. There has been no election in years. I think you've not fully grasped what this is about. Nfitz (talk) 05:15, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That's what's frustrating about the !votes on this nom - a lot of the accompanying commentary shows a complete misunderstanding of the history and context. Some of that is probably deliberate, and some of it is due to ignorance. But it's not encouraging. GenevieveDEon (talk) 08:46, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think you are correct in saying I have not "grasped what this is about", so I am just scratching my vote entirely. 2G0o2De0l (talk) 13:03, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Oppose and while I agree that the appointment has regional and ethnic notability (which would also be notable in the Anglosphere and much of Europe), I wonder whether it has global notability. I think that a lot of readers would find it interesting because much of the native English speaking world has ties to Ireland and the UK, but I doubt that English speaking in non-native countries would care so much and Wikipedia has a problem with leaning too much towards native English speaking countries (and US events).
CollationoftheWilling (talk) 07:34, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • ITN's problem is not "too much" – quite the contrary. Andrew🐉(talk) 07:59, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Historically important for Northern Ireland doktorb wordsdeeds 09:50, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support There's no point in comparing this to Texas, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Quebec, the Cayman Islands or any other example because Northern Ireland has a very unique history with a very unique political situation and unique devolved powers. It is however a "nation state", even if not fully sovereign, and what happens at Stormont is hugely impactful for both the UK and the Republic of Ireland; both of which are very much sovereign nations. Abcmaxx (talk) 13:43, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose she hasn't declared separation from Britain and union with the Republic. Blurb that, not the mere event of a Sinn Fein member becoming FM. JM (talk) 13:56, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Pretty close actually: The Guardian - British and Irish governments play down Sinn Féin’s calls for united Ireland. Abcmaxx (talk) 15:03, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Of course Sinn Fein wants a united Ireland, but this isnt notable unless it starts taking steps to unite Ireland. Right now she's just FM and hasn't done anything. JM (talk) 18:14, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support whilst Northern Ireland isn't a sovereign nation, the fact the 20-month long stalemate has been resolved and their parliament will be back is notable and well covered in traditional news media. Whilst generally the appointment of a new FM of Northern Ireland may not be ITN worthy, this one is because of the long process that has preceded it. Joseph2302 (talk) 17:14, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support – I like the feature of this subject and it is significant. I feel like the "First Minister (2024–present)" section on O'Neill's article should be expanded upon, or otherwise the 2024 Northern Ireland Executive formation-article should be boldlinked (eventhough it has the same problem). Regardless, the articles both present the history of the past two years well, with a few rich details. (oh, and I would go for a blurb that doesn't mention where she was born) ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 08:36, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - The knee-jerk "subnational" response doesn't sway me, nor does the misleading assertion that global notability is required for ITN stories, a criterion which is not applicable to WP:ITNSIGNIF. When this election is framed in the proper context - the stalemate, the DUP boycott, the history of Irish republicanism in Northern Ireland, the role of Brexit and the Windsor Framework - there's a larger story here than just a provincial election. Duly signed, ⛵ WaltClipper -(talk) 13:59, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • What election? The election was back in 2022. The big issue here is the resolution of the Brexit and Windsor Agreement matter and the return of devolved government. The nominated article says nothing about Brexit and the Windsor Agreement and all we're getting is a dubious claim of a first. Insofar as there's a larger story, this doesn't address it. The significant news here is that the UK government has published a legal protocol for post-Brexit trade which the DUP has accepted and so power-sharing is restored. O'Neill doesn't belong to the DUP -- she's in a different party and so her role is a side-effect rather than the main breakthrough. Andrew🐉(talk) 15:01, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    all we're getting is a dubious claim of a first It's not a dubious claim. If you check the Prime Minister of Northern Ireland and First Minister and deputy First Minister of Northern Ireland articles, you'll see that there has never been a nationalist politician who has held the office of either Prime Minister or First Minister. All Prime Ministers of Northern Ireland were from the Ulster Unionist Party, and until Saturday all First Minister's of Northern Ireland had either been from the Ulster Unionist Party or the Democratic Unionist Party. Given the long and bloody history of the province, that the office is now held by a nationalist is a historic moment, and one that the creators of NI's borders wanted to prevent from happening. Sideswipe9th (talk) 15:36, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. While this is big news in the UK, Stormont is a regional assembly, akin to the Landtag of Lower Saxony, Parliament of Catalonia, or Legislative Assembly of Alberta. We wouldn't post the leaders of any of those. The long interregnum is unusual and relates to wider issues, but those weren't solved by this appointment. Also, the assembly grants equal powers to the 'first minister' and 'deputy first minister', who have always been one unionist and one republican. They're effectively the same office, which is why we have a joint article about them. The only 'first' here is purely semantic, regardless of how much the parties involved try to promote their own significance. Modest Genius talk 18:13, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    @Modest Genius: Northern Ireland is absolutely nothing like Alberta, Catalonia or Saxony. Firstly completely different type of devolution. Secondly a significant percentage of Northern Ireland's population doesn't want to secede but join another country that perceives it culturally closer to it than the state it's currently part of, much to the disagreement of much of the rest of the population. Also had a civil war which although over even in its guerrilla form, there is still ever present fear of violence, and does still occasionally happen on political lines. Lastly it is a nation state: it's the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, of which Great Britain is made up for 3 unequally devolved countries. Abcmaxx (talk) 09:55, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I am well aware of the politics of Northern Ireland and how the UK is structured; I'm British myself. I've even been inside Stormont, where I met several MLAs. If you don't like my analogies, perhaps the leaders of the Basque Parliament, Kurdistan Region Parliament or National Assembly of Quebec are a closer match? They consider themselves nations, have experienced wars, terrorist campaigns, and/or movements that want to unite with (parts of) another country. There are at least a dozen such regions around the world. I'm still opposed to posting. Modest Genius talk 11:30, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    If an independentist was elected leader of one of these regions for the first time ever, it would definitely be worthy of being posted. It's not just any election result. ChaotıċEnby(talk · contribs) 17:19, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support: I'm far from a Sinn Fein supporter, but the first nationalist first minister in Northern Ireland since partition in 1921 is significant news, regardless of the machinations of how it came about (read: demographics). In other news, I find Ad Orientem's rantings obnoxious and -at best- confused, its a wonder he wasn't blocked. Andrew Davidson I consider silly and never expected more from them. And Modest Genius, do you really consider current political trends within the devolved governments of Scotland and Norther Ireland as irrelevant as those of Landtag of Lower Saxony? Surely you jest. Ceoil (talk) 23:28, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Personal attacks are unhelpful. As for the one directed at me, there was no jest, just a desire for consistency. Modest Genius talk 11:30, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose It is subnational and Northern Ireland is not sovereign
Setarip (talk) 12:06, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Spillover of the Israel–Hamas war

Article: Spillover of the Israel–Hamas war (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item nomination (Post)
Credits:

Nominator's comments: It looks like there’s some support in the discussion of the “February 2024 United States bombing of Iraq and Syria” blurb to add this to “Ongoing”. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 20:47, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support adding to "ongoing", as long as it's a replacement for "Red Sea Crisis" and not an addition. Nigej (talk) 21:01, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Neutral but FWIW I'm not a fan of the article title. I posted on the article talk page. -Ad Orientem (talk) 21:05, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Hadn't noticed first time, but "spillover from" is surely better English. Nigej (talk) 21:14, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I’d note that “Spillover of…” is the title format used for multiple articles. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 22:57, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, definitely OR to label all Middle-Eastern events as spillover of one specific conflict. ChaotıċEnby(talk · contribs) 22:55, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - I don't think it's OR to label as such, considering insurgent groups and Iranian proxies have labeled the war in Gaza as motivation for attacking both Red Sea shipping and American bases. Between the airstrikes and Houthi attacks, "spillover" is fast becoming a solid umbrella term barring some sort of generalized "2023–24 Middle East crisis." The Kip 01:16, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Would it be wise to move the article to 2023-24 Middle East Crisis or a similar title, given that the multiple ongoing conflicts are inter-related and have causes other than the Israel-Hamas war? --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 01:54, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    OR isn't about whether it's obvious to deduce or not, it's about if reliable, secondary sources (which the Houtis are not) make that connection. ChaotıċEnby(talk · contribs) 02:56, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    If all these are connected, we should be able to readily find sources in media and use their term for it. But I do feel this is more Wikipedians making this an umbrella term, the more I think about it, so this is probably OR to categorize them all under this. There's definitely indication that some of the events were triggered by instability created by the Israeli/Hamas conflict, but I don't think they should be taken as simply spillover, unless that can be readily demonstrated in RSes. Masem (t) 16:01, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Improve article, then support The article, as I said in the discussion for the U.S. bombing of Syria and Iraq discussion, does not even mention that event occurring, and has 4 citation needed tags. When the article gets to be of a better quality, I agree with the argument that, at least for now, the events listed in the article really are "spillover" from the Israel-Hamas war. I would be particularly supportive of adding an ongoing item such as this due to it being able to handle the multiple different ongoing confrontations in the Middle East. 2G0o2De0l (talk) 02:44, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - should be one ongoing on the various attacks by Iran and Iranian-supported militias. We've already got one too many. Combine them all into a single target. Nfitz (talk) 05:09, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose The link that's needed is the list of ongoing armed conflicts which includes the entire Middle East and more besides. Andrew🐉(talk) 08:33, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    This article probably won't work at least in the current form, as it doesn't seem to mention the Red Sea crisis or the U.S.-Iran-backed militias conflict in Iraq and Syria, which were the two conflicts that we initially wanted to include in ongoing. 2G0o2De0l (talk) 13:19, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Never mind, someone added them in. 2G0o2De0l (talk) 19:12, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support bracketing it next to Israel-Hamas war. Neutral on removing Red Sea crisis; that should be separately nominated as an ongoing removal. JM (talk) 15:34, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Bit of a catch-all and nebulous concept. As recent discussion here show, it's not that hard to find an argument that claims basically everything happening in the Middle East is "spillover" from the Israel-Palestine conflict. The very fact that we are debating if the Red Sea Crisis is related shows this. Additionally, I would say "spillover" from a war is in a sense inextricably linked to the war and could be considered itself included in ongoing. DarkSide830 (talk) 04:14, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose No need for 3 separate instances of the Israel-Hamas war.
Setarip (talk) 12:08, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Red Sea crisis is not part of the Israel-Hamas war. That's why the article was moved. JM (talk) 12:10, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

February 2024 United States bombing of Iraq and Syria

Article: February 2024 United States bombing of Iraq and Syria (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The United States launches airstrikes targeting Iran's Revolutionary Guards and Iran-backed militias in Iraq and Syria in retaliation for a drone strike in Jordan a week earlier. (Post)
News source(s): Reuters and AP
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Ongoing conflict between the United States and Iran Ecrusized (talk) 11:22, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose This is covered by the Red Sea crisis, also referred to as the "United States–Iran proxy war", already posted onto ongoing.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 11:32, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    This is a separate conflict from the Red Sea crisis. Ecrusized (talk) 11:43, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I may support changing the target article, but definitely not post it separately. It's clear that there's an ongoing proxy war between the United States and Iran, so it stands to reason to wrap it up in a single article which would be posted onto ongoing. There's really no need to post multiple instances of a single conflict. After all, the ongoing section is already full of conflicts, and it's perhaps the right time to verify that each of them should be still there.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 11:49, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment After some thought, it's maybe worth considering to post Spillover of the Israel–Hamas war in brackets next to Israel-Hamas War in the same way as Timeline of the Russian invasion of Ukraine (1 December 2023 – present) is posted next to Russian invasion of Ukraine. This means that Red Sea crisis should be removed, as it's also considered part of the spillover of that war.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 11:54, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The Red Sea Crisis was originally in parentheses next to the Israel-Hamas War, but was made its own item because of consensus that the Red Sea crisis is a separate enough conflict to be considered its own item. However, now that there are three different conflicts in the Middle East that are somewhat inter-related, it may be worth combining their items into Spillover of the Israel-Hamas war or perhaps Conflicts in the Middle East. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 12:14, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    List of modern conflicts in the Middle East is not eligible because as a list of conflicts it is not updated with the frequency necessary for listing in Ongoing. JM (talk) 15:37, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Iran-U.S. proxy war started years before Israel-Hamas October conflicit, the war in Gaza just made it worse. Actually the Hamas attack on Israel is a spillover of Iran U.S.-Israel proxy war. (: 3000MAX (talk) 12:40, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose 100% covered by the Red Sea Crisis ongoing (unless the caption on that page is wrong that it doesn't cover the US-Iran issues, which doesn't appear to be the case (eg that is covered as well). --Masem (t) 13:38, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Many people are saying this is covered by the Red Sea crisis in ongoing, but the event in question is not listed in that article. I would support condensing the various conflicts in the Middle East into something like Spillover of the Israel-Hamas war in ongoing. However, this article also needs some work, as it, too, does not mention the event in question (some referencing work also needs to be done there). 2G0o2De0l (talk) 14:13, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Then we should remove the Red Sea Crisis from ongoing as to fail to make quality (incorporation of all the main events that are contributing towards it). Masem (t) 15:01, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I fail to see how Iran bombing US bases in Iraq and Syria has anything to do with Houthis blocking the Red Sea. Yes, both are related to Iran, but they're totally separate events involving Iran. It would make no sense to include Iran bombing bases in Mesopotamia in an article about Houthis blocking the Red Sea in South Arabia. The articles have separate scopes. JM (talk) 15:39, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The lead of Red Sea Crisis specifically says it is about the Iran-US proxy war, and this blurb clearly discusses the connection to Iran. The target article indicates its part of the spillover of the Red Sea Crisis. This is not being treated as a wholly new conflict in the media, which I would actually expect to have this as a blurb. — Masem (t) 15:55, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The fact that both the Red Sea crisis and the article in question have connections with the Iran-US proxy conflict (which they obviously do), does not mean that they are the exact same conflict, or should be treated in the exact same way (included in the same ongoing article). The Red Sea crisis article is specifically dealing with the Houthis, while the bombings in Iraq in Syria deal specifically with Iran-backed militias in Iraq and Syria, not the Houthis. 2G0o2De0l (talk) 16:17, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak and somewhat reluctant Support Ideally this should be covered somewhere in ongoing, given all the fertilizer that has been flying in that part of the world of late. But it doesn't seem to fit well in any of the currently linked articles. This goes well beyond the Red Sea situation. And it is likely the largest US military operation since the clusterbleep withdrawal from Afghanistan. -Ad Orientem (talk) 15:28, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support article looks fine, definitely a significant event. Not covered by Red Sea crisis in Ongoing, or at least it shouldn't be, as its a separate (but related) conflict involving Iran and the US. JM (talk) 15:42, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support on notability, as this does not neatly relate to I-P or Red Sea ongoing, but represents a new US-Iran confrontation. Mach61 (talk) 16:21, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, not close enough to the Red Sea Crisis to justify Ongoing. Yet another US-Iran proxy war. ChaotıċEnby(talk · contribs) 16:32, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support As per my comment above, this cannot be adequately covered in the Red Sea crisis, and other candidate articles for ongoing (such as the Spillover of the Israel-Hamas war) are not of sufficient quality. Even if they were of sufficient quality, this event represents a significant response of the US on the Iran-backed proxies that deserves its own blurb. 2G0o2De0l (talk) 16:47, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support While it could hypothetically be subsumed by another article within the blurb, the spillover one is too wide in scope and this is definitively not part of the Red Sea crisis. I would support adding (spillover) as an add-on to the war, though, but that’s another discussion. The Kip 17:59, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Covered by ongoing. We can't cover every specific "spillover". If people are not happy with the "ongoing" section, we should a discussion about that, but to add a blurb doesn't seem at all suitable to me. Nigej (talk) 20:58, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Another attack on another Iran-supported militia. Something similar is already listed in ongoing. Perhaps the ongoing target needs to shift to cover all the Iranian and Iranian militia attacks. Nfitz (talk) 05:07, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support as it has global relevancy in an rapidly escalating "regional" conflict that has actors of virtually all the major global powers. I think numerous news outlets across the political spectrum and from all the major geopolitical powers have started to refer to a merger of numerous conflicts into one major conflict, so while this is not part of the Israel - Hamas war or the Red Sea crisis, it is very much interlinked with the two. CollationoftheWilling (talk) 08:01, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

February 2

February 2, 2024 (2024-02-02) (Friday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Sports

RD: Oskar Negt

Article: Oskar Negt (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): FAZ
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Influential German "New Left" philosopher and sociologist, teaching in Hanover for 3 decades after having been a mentor of the APO protest movement. The article was almost there but sources were missing. We still have no other source for early childhood but his autobiography, but actually - how would an "independent" source know better. More detail can be found in German and in the obits, but I'm not a philosopher ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:52, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Wikipedian and former Wikimedia Russia director is declared foreign agent in Russia

Consensus will not develop to post. Stephen 00:08, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Proposed image
Article: Stanislav Kozlovsky (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Former Wikimedia Russia director and wikipedian Stanislav Kozlovsky is declared foreign agent in Russia. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In Russia, former Wikimedia Russia director and wikipedian Stanislav Kozlovsky is declared foreign agent.
News source(s): Meduza
Credits:

Article updated

Former Wikimedia Russia director, our fellow renowned wikipedician, university professor and lecturer Stanislav Kozlovsky was declared yesterday a foreign agent in Russia. Wikimedia Ru which was branch of Wikimedia already closed. This is very harsh label, it requires to specify in all publications that author is foreign agent, which is not feasible for university professor. While many famous public figures in Russia were given this label, in this case it is especially harmful, while he can not do educational work in Russia anymore. This event concerns Wikipedia, and not only because he won't be able to edit Wikipedia. This is a clear signal for Wikipedia in Russian language, and for people who edit it. There are many publications and sources on this, but they are mostly in Russian. In Russian Wikipedia, the news was already put on ITN. BilboBeggins (talk) 22:06, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose good faith nom. As horrifying as this is, it's run of the mill for the Putin dictatorship. See also WP:NAVEL.-Ad Orientem (talk) 22:41, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Do you mean WP:SELF? WP:NAVEL got redirected apparently. ChaotıċEnby(talk · contribs) 22:54, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    It was unanimously approved to be in ITN by community of Russian Wikipedia. BilboBeggins (talk) 23:43, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, self-referential nom that might seem more important for Wikipedians specifically, but ITN isn't about Wikipedia-related news more than any other news. ChaotıċEnby(talk · contribs) 22:53, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - This feed is Wikipedia's "In the News", not "Wikipedia's in the news". GenevieveDEon (talk) 23:18, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per all above. _-_Alsor (talk) 23:35, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per above, as well as we should not be giving any "WP"-related topic special consideration for ITN. --Masem (t) 00:03, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

RD: Wayne Kramer (guitarist)

Article: Wayne Kramer (guitarist) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Entertainment Weekly, The Detroit News
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Guitarist and co-founder of MC5. 240D:1A:4B5:2800:9D18:87AB:E445:1974 (talk) 14:17, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose I'll work on sourcing the discography, but the article has significant sourcing issues in a lot of other places. 2G0o2De0l (talk) 15:00, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Significant sourcing issues in the article with an orange tag make this one no bueno, I'm afraid. Cheers, atque supra! Fakescientist8000 00:13, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) RD: Poonam Pandey

Not dead. Usedtobecool ☎️ 07:22, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Poonam Pandey (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Hindustan Times NDTV
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Indian model and actress Lekhak93 (talk) 22:53, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose not notable enough to be in the recent deaths LuxembourgBoy42 (talk) 23:12, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post, as per policy. ChaotıċEnby(talk · contribs) 23:16, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Regardless of the policy, I'm curious to know how this person is "not notable enough to be in the recent deaths" but is somehow notable enough to have their own Wikipedia entry. --Bedivere (talk) 04:51, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support. As noted above, the relevant guidelines state Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post. The article meets the standards for updated content, significance, and quality. Einsof (talk) 03:14, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Article is of generally good quality and is well-sourced. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 04:02, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Jonnie Irwin

Article: Jonnie Irwin (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [6]
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: English presenter. Ollieisanerd (talk • contribs) 19:03, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Weak oppose Added two minor CN tags, but for the most part the article's in good shape. The Kip 23:03, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    This is an explicitly invalid reason to oppose a nomination. The relevant guidelines say that one or two "citation needed" tags may not hold up an article. Einsof (talk) 02:44, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    BLP articles are held to a higher standard and in practical terms we always require cleanup of CN tags before posting to RD. The Kip 04:37, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Provide a link to written policy or to a talk page discussion that reached that consensus. Einsof (talk) 12:11, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Quite literally from the page you’ve linked:
    Biographies of living persons are held to higher standards of referencing because of their sensitive nature, and these rules also apply to those recently deceased. Lists of awards and honors, bibliographies and filmographies and the like should have clear sources.
    additionally, from WP:BLP:
    Verifiability, says that all quotations and any material challenged or likely to be challenged must be attributed to a reliable, published source using an inline citation; material not meeting this standard may be removed.
    And again, it’s always been practice here to require that BLPs are fully sourced, regardless of whether that’s definitively written down somewhere. Again, not to WP:BITE but many of us have been participating on this page for a long time; you appear to be new to it. The Kip 15:30, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Article meets relevant standards for updated content, significance, and quality. Einsof (talk) 02:47, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, no longer unreferenced material in the article. Suonii180 (talk) 11:43, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted Stephen 02:50, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Najib Razak's partial pardon

Good faith nomination, however consensus is against posting. -Ad Orientem (talk) 23:06, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Proposed image
Article: Najib Razak (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Malaysia's pardons board reduces the prison term of former Prime Minister Najib Razak from 12 years to six years. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Malaysia's pardons board, under outgoing king Abdullah of Pahang, reduces the prison term of former Prime Minister Najib Razak from 12 years to six years.
News source(s): Reuters Al Jazeera
Credits:
Nominator's comments: Significant news in Malaysia, as one of the world's most notably corrupt politicians has had his sentence halved. Tofusaurus (talk) 16:26, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Sources look good, and a former PM. Yoblyblob (talk) 16:49, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support in principle - major national news in a country, Oppose on quality, some citations needed. — Knightoftheswords 17:01, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose This is an amusing combo with the nomination for the new King of Malaysia, who supposedly has no power. But neither the article nor its source make it clear whether this was the outgoing or incoming king. And it's also an amusing combo with the sentencing of Imran Khan which also seems to be determined in a similar "pick a number, double it then halve it..." basis. It seems simpler to just report when these top tier guys get sent to jail or are released. This guy is still in prison and staying there for some years yet, right? Andrew🐉(talk) 17:37, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"neither the article nor its source make it clear whether this was the outgoing or incoming king" - yes it does. It's right there in the relevant section of the article. I'm neutral on the nomination itself, but I wish to draw ITN regulars' attention to yet another incoherent and inaccurate comment from Andrew Davidson. GenevieveDEon (talk) 17:57, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Good point – I missed that somehow in my first reading. Andrew🐉(talk) 18:15, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Doesn't change the fact he was already imprisoned. I don't think we've ever posted a pardon following incarceration. (overtunred convictions before incarceration, yes). --Masem (t) 18:06, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: should be made clear in the blurb that it was from the old king Abdullah of Pahang. I'd support posting it if the pardon led to his release, but it appears that Najib is early enough in his sentence to still be in prison (edited 20:21, 2 February 2024 (UTC)) ChaotıċEnby(talk · contribs) 18:43, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose While yes he is an extremely corrupt politician his influence was largely only relevant to Malaysia. Masem is correct was when i went through the archives I do not recall seeing any pardons as far as August 2021 Ion.want.uu (talk) 19:02, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - nearly no significance at all. nableezy - 19:05, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per all above. _-_Alsor (talk) 19:13, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I don't see why someone having their sentence reduced, but still having a sentence for multiple years, is significant. The significance seems to be with the initial sentence, not with the reduction. 2G0o2De0l (talk) 20:09, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per above. WP:SNOW might be taking effect. The Kip 21:46, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per above. Nowhere near the significance required for the blurb. Nigej (talk) 22:17, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per above and move for SNOW This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 22:20, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) Murder of Brianna Ghey

Consensus to post will not develop. Stephen 07:26, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Murder of Brianna Ghey (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Two teenagers were sentenced to 22 and 20 years for the murder of a transgender teen in the United Kingdom Two teenagers were sentenced to life in prison, with minimum sentences of 22 and 20 years, for the murder of a transgender teen in the United Kingdom (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ The two teenagers convicted of murdering transgender teen Brianna Ghey have been life sentences
Alternative blurb II: ​ Two teenagers have been handed life sentences for the murder of a transgender teen in the United Kingdom
News source(s): BBC News, Sky News UK, The Guardian UK, The Telegraph UK, The Independent UK, ABC Australia
Credits:

Article updated
Article was included in recent deaths back in February 2023 under its former title. The conviction of the teens last month was covered by all major UK news publications, as well as The NY Times, AP News, and The Washington Post The sentencing of the two teens has been covered by all major UK news publications, and ABC Australia. Content on the conviction and sentencing has already been included, and more is being added as additional sources are published. The significance of this is perhaps best summed up by Justice Yip's statement that the murder was "sadistic in nature and where a secondary motive was hostility towards Brianna because of her transgender identity." (The Guardian) Sideswipe9th (talk) 00:58, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
20 or life which is it? Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 01:41, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Life, with a minimum sentence of 22 years for the girl, and 20 years for the boy. I realise now that I worded blurb 1 really badly. I'll tweak it in a moment. Sideswipe9th (talk) 01:43, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In America we call that 20 to life and 22 to life. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 02:34, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose good faith nom. We posted the murder. There is nothing unusual about the convictions and/or sentences that justify blurbing the article. -Ad Orientem (talk) 01:47, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose posted to RD, so the article was already featured for the same event; also, I know there is no minimum deaths, but ITN has sometimes refused to post mass shootings. I'm not seeing how sentencing for the killing of one person is significant enough for the main page without it being a public figure. Is this really major front-page news? JM (talk) 01:52, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes this is really major front page news on the UK. Every major UK news publication has at least one article on the sentencing on their websites. Both The Guardian and The Telegraph are running front page stories on it on Saturday's printed editions. Due to the public interest, the sentencing hearing was broadcast by Sky News and BBC Radio 4, something that is quite unusual for a crime of this nature. The killing itself has been described as particularly sadistic in nature, with a secondary motive being anti-trans hatred. Killings perpetrated by teens are also pretty unusual in the UK.
    Were this a crime in the US, or another country where mass shootings are sadly common place, I'd agree that this wouldn't meet the ITN criteria. But I think you have to judge news from each country by their relative standards for what is or is not common or routine. Sideswipe9th (talk) 02:24, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Oppose I don't see anything significant in the sentencing in this case. The significance would come from the event itself, not the trial. In addition, as stated above, we have already posted this to RD, which I think is sufficient coverage for this event. 2G0o2De0l (talk) 03:11, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

February 1

February 1, 2024 (2024-02-01) (Thursday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Law and crime

(Posted) RD: Carl Weathers

Article: Carl Weathers (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [7]
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Died three days ago, just announced. Not ready for the usual reason. – Muboshgu (talk) 19:37, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • The Deadline article is confusing. Did he die on Thursday, or Tuesday? died Tuesday, his family announced. He was 76. “We are deeply saddened to announce the passing of Carl Weathers,” his family said in a statement. “He died peacefully in his sleep on Thursday, February 1st, 2024 Is the "Tuesday" mention a typo? Natg 19 (talk) 19:44, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Yeah I just noticed that. They probably meant Thursday but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ – Muboshgu (talk) 19:50, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Other sources are saying Thursday. – Muboshgu (talk) 20:08, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per the usual reason of an uncited filmography. RIP to an absolute legend. The Kip 20:04, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Support. A legend in the film industry who has played in multiple movies and shows LuxembourgBoy42 (talk) 23:14, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Just FYI (also based on your !vote on another RD nom on significance) RD is not about significance or being a "legend", it's about whether the article is front page quality or not. RD works differently than blurbs. JM (talk) 01:55, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, but when you get those citations straightened out, then baby, you've got a stew! Danthemankhan 23:28, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - unsourced material. Damn. Just got the vinyl albums for first four Rocky films yesterday as a belated Christmas gift. RIP. — Knightoftheswords 23:29, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Looks fine. Don't know where this idea arose that you can't post anything with an undercited filmography section, but it seems excessive. Einsof (talk) 03:23, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Not to WP:BITE a newcomer to ITN/C, but RDs are required to be fully-cited. It’s just how we do it, especially considering BLP standards. Your insistence that these articles missing citations “look fine” aren’t helping. The Kip 05:09, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    More specifically BLPs (which include BDPs) are supposed to be fully cited, so that extends to RDs for all purposes. It is a shame that entertainer articles don't see the same care and rigor that most other BLP areas typically see, but that's a long-standing problem on WP. — Masem (t) 13:47, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    WP:ITNQUALITY reads, among other things, that

    Lists of awards and honors, bibliographies and filmographies and the like should have clear sources.

    —Bagumba (talk) 16:12, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment There are plenty of obits to source the article, see Guardian. Top news on Variety. In Sly's tribute there are also some facts. BilboBeggins (talk) 21:33, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Filmography has been cited, so the article is now ready to go. 2G0o2De0l (talk) 14:59, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Admins willing to post ITN: Article seems good to go. The Kip 19:11, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted Stephen 23:17, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting Comment, notice that the last references added point to IMDB (a non-RS). Alexcalamaro (talk) 05:43, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • I have deleted them just now, please consider to pull it till new sources are found. Alexcalamaro (talk) 14:25, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) F1 7 time world champion Lewis Hamilton makes shock move to Ferrari for 2025

Per WP:SNOW. Good faith nomination but there is no chance of consensus developing to post this. -Ad Orientem (talk) 20:44, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

  • Oppose Fairly trivial sports news. The Kip 19:39, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Opppse we don't post things like sports trades or similar moves, barring exceptions for cost records. Masem (t) 19:58, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Sportsman moves from one team to another. Difficult to imagine any such move being suitable for the blurb. Nigej (talk) 20:26, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - per above PrecariousWorlds (talk) 20:40, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

January 31

January 31, 2024 (2024-01-31) (Wednesday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

Politics and elections

(Posted) RD: Terry Beasley

Article: Terry Beasley (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): ESPN
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Kafoxe (talk) 00:58, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support - article looks good ✈ mike_gigs talkcontribs 14:33, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Sufficent breadth and sourcing. Marking ready.—Bagumba (talk) 17:44, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted on a Sunday afternoon. R.I.P. --PFHLai (talk) 21:03, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Change of head of state of Malaysia

Proposed image
Article: Ibrahim Iskandar of Johor (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Ibrahim Iskandar of Johor is sworn in as the 17th Yang di-Pertuan Agong of Malaysia. (Post)
News source(s): AP
Credits:

Change of head of state of Malaysia. Seems to be a ceremonial role, so unclear notability. Natg 19 (talk) 18:26, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support on notability this is a change in the head of state. Monarchs in 21st-century Europe are arguably a ceremonial role, so if we post them, we should post this on the basis of notability. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 20:39, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Per WP:ITNELECTIONS, any change of the head of state is notable enough for ITN. From the List of current heads of state and government article, we can see that this change constitutes a change in the head of state of Malaysia. 2G0o2De0l (talk) 21:07, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    No, it's any change in the holder of the office which administer the executive, which in Malaysia is the Prime Minister according to that list. ChaotıċEnby(talk · contribs) 21:16, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Per article, he was elected on 27 October 2023 and, if I understand correctly, the swearing-in ceremony is a formality, similar to presidential inaugurations. Brandmeistertalk 21:58, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Let's be honest, the election is a formality too, it's nine monarchs rotating among themselves every 5 years in a predefined order. The next one will very likely be Nazrin Shah of Perak in five years, as Perak comes after Johor in the cycle. ChaotıċEnby(talk · contribs) 22:33, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Weak oppose - Due to this reason. Routine event that doesn't have as much significance as a traditional change in head of state PrecariousWorlds (talk) 12:27, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support He's in the news and seems likely to make a difference. See Malaysia prepares for ‘hands-on’ king... Andrew🐉(talk) 22:28, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Conditional support, provisional oppose on quality; several unsourced statements throughout his article, but similar to European monarchies, it is indeed an alteration of the head of state. — Knightoftheswords 23:43, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose He was elected as king in October & this was a swearing in ceremony that happened. Additionally, I don’t think a change in a ceremonial role is notable unless something that’s out of the ordinary happens (such as the 1st abdication of a Danish monarch since 1146). Blaylockjam10 (talk) 00:27, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support on precedence, and the unique nature of a semi-elective monarchy; however, I do question why we didn’t post this in October. The Kip 02:21, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Though he may not really be the head of state, ceremonial/monarchial role changes are often posted on ITN as well, so I don't see this as much of a hinderance for posting. - Bucket of sulfuric acid (he/him | talk) 08:20, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support not ITN/R as discussed above, nonetheless notable and comparable to death of a monarch which we do post This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 13:39, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Head of State change, and the Malaysian monarchy is unique, even if this would've been better posted in October.
River10000 (talk) 15:24, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Happens every 5 years. The role is purely nominal. They are not elected either (rotate on a list) so im voting to oppose Kasperquickly (talk) 17:39, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Yes, it's 9 monarchs "voting" to rotate the crown in a fixed order (as I stated above), but that's what makes the Malaysian monarchy unique and it would be interesting to highlight this little-known cultural specificity to the readers. ChaotıċEnby(talk · contribs) 18:19, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Support A head of state change is notable enough for ITN though this would've been better posting when he was elected king Setarip (talk) 10:51, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
WP:NOTFORUM.
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
  • this whole thread seems like a bunch of paid editors bought by the office of this guy, who is, and this is true, a kleptocrat Kasperquickly (talk) 18:50, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Please don't cast aspersions on people you disagree with. Wanting to highlight a cool fact from across the world doesn't mean anyone here is paid by the guy. ChaotıċEnby(talk · contribs) 19:19, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - we do not post heads of state that are not also heads of government. We shouldn't have done it for inconsequential transitions like the King of Denmark, we shouldn't do it now. --RockstoneSend me a message! 00:55, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I don't get what you mean by "we do not post head of states that are not also heads of government" when we did post both King Charles' accession and coronation. Being a head of state without any executive power doesn't warrant as a reason of not posting something. Tofusaurus (talk) 02:27, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I feel like we don’t should be read as we shouldn’t. nableezy - 04:24, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Nominal support: Sets a precedence as we did not post when the 16th king was installed. Unsure about notability, but transitions of monarchs usually should be posted nevertheless. Tofusaurus (talk) 02:39, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Change of head of state is generally newsworthy in the relevant sense for ITN. I still don't know why we don't fully translate the Malay king's title, but that's an aside. GenevieveDEon (talk) 13:15, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted. I've posted without the image; I'm extremely skeptical it's a case of own work, and I've tagged the image on Commons as lacking evidence of permission. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 00:45, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Comment Can we swap the current image with something like ? He looks like he's going for a round of golf on the main page. Bremps... 01:03, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Obelisk (life form)

Consensus again is to wait for peer review. Stephen 22:25, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Obelisk (life form) (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A new form of life, "obelisks", is discovered. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ A new form of non-cellular life, "obelisks", is discovered.
Alternative blurb II: ​ A putative new form of non-cellular life, "obelisks", is announced.
News source(s): https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-024-00266-7
Credits:

Article needs updating
  • Support, as nominator. Perhaps too short at present, but most definitely noteworthy. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:25, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, "The work was posted on the bioRxiv preprint server on 21 January, and has yet to be peer reviewed." Fram (talk) 14:03, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • I agree with Fram, we should probably wait for a peer-reviewed printing. This gives us time to improve the article too. The article is currently too short. This is definitely something I hope we can feature on ITN at some point, however! ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 14:12, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • Meanwhile news outlets from Nature to the popular press, and all around the world, are reporting this news. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:16, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      • WP has higher standards to make sure scientific and medical content has been validated, not just claimed. — Masem (t) 14:46, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
        Yeah, I dont think this level of sourcing is enough to claim anything was actually discovered. Only that a preprint says it was. nableezy - 14:51, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
        How about altblurb2? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:00, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
        But I dont think a putative new form of life being announced is something we should feature here. Id happily support it when it is peer-reviewed. nableezy - 15:06, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
        • Yes, Nature is known for its lax standards. Also, what "medical content"? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:00, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
          • The Nature article is simply reporting details from the preprint but acknowledges this is a preprint so that puts an implicit caution these may not be as described. And given its related to the human body, that falls under medical content. — Masem (t) 17:09, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Very very interesting, definitely significant enough if true, but maybe premature - not yet per-reviewed, and the article may be a little short but that could recieve lenience because of how recent it is JM (talk) 14:16, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait, as per User:Maplestrip. For a moment there I thought it was that thing in Space Odyssey Martinevans123 (talk) 14:19, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait As per above, wait for a peer review of the findings. After this, if the findings are true, support as a new form of life seems significant enough for ITN. 2G0o2De0l (talk) 14:24, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - per Fram. nableezy - 14:25, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support (edit: Wait), although it would be better to mention that these subviral agents are non-cellular life, which is often considered at the boundary between life and non-life. News outlets are reporting it now, and I'm afraid waiting for a peer-reviewed confirmation would make it stale. As an encyclopedia, it's better to follow what's "the news" in the relevant journals (i.e. peer review) rather than rushing to follow newspaper articles. ChaotıċEnby(talk · contribs) 14:31, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I think it would be much more respectable for us to post a month later when the peer reviews come in, rather than now, even if the more usual news sources are reporting on it now. We are not a news website, we are an encyclopedia with an eye on current events. ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 14:45, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I absolutely understand your point of view, and I would prefer it to be reported once peer-reviewed, but I am afraid it would be considered stale and not be published at all in that case. ChaotıċEnby(talk · contribs) 14:46, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    This has been a problem before, yes, and I am worried too. I think ITN has a systemic problem that makes us "incapable" of featuring most science news if we wait for peer-reviews, and we might need a broader discussion on this... ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 15:14, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Disregard the people saying stale when the peer review happens and problem solved. nableezy - 15:17, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I would like to formalize something like that in the ITN guidelines. ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 15:25, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    You have my support! ChaotıċEnby(talk · contribs) 15:44, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    If the consensus is that a nomination is stale, the posting admin can't just ignore that consensus. JM (talk) 15:54, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Fram. Without proper validation, would there even be a Wikipedia? ✈ mike_gigs talkcontribs 15:07, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait, leaning oppose per others. If the peer review of this is a newsworthy enough item (on the same level of coverage as this, or greater) and/or can be completed before this story becomes staler than the oldest item on the ITN page, then I think we post it at that time. Duly signed, ⛵ WaltClipper -(talk) 15:52, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose on the basis of short article. I also wonder about the notability in case this is one of many life forms that are regularly discovered. The article does not mention how rare this sort of discovery is.
CollationoftheWilling (talk) 16:25, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's a whole new category of non-cellular life. There's like a handful of them in total (virus, viroid, satellite, prion, plasmid, obelisk, defective interfering particle and viriform), all stranding the line between life and non-life. ChaotıċEnby(talk · contribs) 16:42, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If we wait too long, it might get so stale that it dies.... and then we can argue under WP:ITNRD if was really living or not? Martinevans123 (talk) 16:48, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait per Fram. Leaning oppose on quality of article. Needs major expansion. Natg 19 (talk) 17:55, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Needs work The "new form of life" hook seems over-hyped. The Nature article says that "obelisks have the same shape as many viroids" and viroids were discovered in the 1970s. So, these things seem to be a new strain rather than something completely new. The claim seems to rest on some novelty in the sequencing but my impression is that down at that level, you get a wild variety of mutation and permutations and so it's just a matter of looking. So, to be significant, I reckon we need more on the implications for their role in human physiology and the gut biome.
On the other hand, waiting on formal peer review is silly because that's just a sanity check by a particular reviewer which proves little and that might take ages. We may already have some similar opinions in the sources such as

The study is “a milestone” because it presents the best available evidence that such elements are widespread in the bacterial world, and not just in more complex organisms, says molecular biologist Joan Marquez-Molins at the Swedish University of Agricultural Sciences in Uppsala, who was not involved in the work. “It’s not really something sporadic or isolated in the population — it’s really affecting a considerable amount of the sample,” he says.

But Joan Marquez-Molins just seems to be a new post-doc. Is there a wider consensus out there?
Andrew🐉(talk) 18:14, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Obelisks aren't just a new strain of viroids, and that's where the novelty is. They're structurally more complex, with RNA folding in a different shape including the namesake rod-like structures (in comparison, viroids are a single naked strand of circular RNA). Indeed, researchers never call them "viroid" but only "viroid-like". Also, while mutations do change the genome, they can still be established to be genetically related (even humans and bacteria!), while obelisks are genetically completely unrelated to any lifeform known previously. ChaotıċEnby(talk · contribs) 18:35, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Looking at the paper, it appears that the study looked for patterns in sequencing databases. The finding seems to have the same circular RNA as viroids. The protein encoding and rod-like structure seems to be a prediction based upon a folding model rather than the result of a direct observation. So, this structural prediction seems to need some confirmation. The overall approach is interesting in that it seems mostly software-based rather than doing the dirty work of collecting stool samples. I'm wary of this approach because, if you look for patterns in a large mass of data, then you will find them but you have to consider artifacts and alternative explanations. Andrew🐉(talk) 09:21, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose (or, more precisely, Wait). We can wait for the peer-review, Wikipedia is not a news ticker. If people complain that the story is stale at that point, we can just point them back here. Black Kite (talk) 18:46, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose although this is interesting, it needs to be verified by peer review first, and quality of the article will need to be improved. Editor 5426387 (talk) 19:00, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong oppose. This study has not been peer-reviewed so has a high chance of being wrong, or that it's over-sold. If/when a peer-reviewed paper describing the results is published in a serious scientific journal (which will be months at least) then we can reconsider. News stories are not enough. Modest Genius talk 19:25, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose We shouldn't report on new scientific discoveries from press releases and pre-prints. Secretlondon (talk) 19:41, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Question Did ITN post about the Borg, either preprint or peer-reviewed? 128.91.40.237 (talk) 20:14, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Not sure, but I'd argue the cases are different: the Borg discovery paper stated that they could neither prove that they are archaeal viruses or plasmids or minichromosomes, nor prove that they are not, but that they may ultimately be classified as megaplasmids, while obelisks are pretty clearly distinct from other subviral agents, even viroids. ChaotıċEnby(talk · contribs) 21:10, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Worse, it looks like no one wrote an article on this subject at all. Shame to see us lacking in this field... ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 12:42, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    See Borg (microbiology). Andrew🐉(talk) 14:23, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait until this is peer-reviewed. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 20:35, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait for peer review. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 21:09, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait per above, if confirmed, support. Great if it pans out, but LK-99 didn't. Bremps... 00:31, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait per all above. The Kip 02:21, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I had closed this discussion because there was strong consensus to wait until a complete peer-review of the discovery before it was re-opened. From my personal experience as an author and a referee, a peer-review in a reputable journal usually takes from several months up to several years, which means that the probability that the wait votes will be satisfied before the nomination gets stale or archived in about a week is almost 0. I have never closed a nomination twice, so I'll urge this to be closed and nominated again when the peer-review is complete and the paper gets published.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 13:08, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    We're talking about a new form of life here and that's potentially such a major discovery that it merits at least 24 hours of discussion and it hasn't had that yet. Andrew🐉(talk) 13:19, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Except there's clear SNOW here to wait for a peer review at minimum. Which anyone in the sciences knows doesn't happen in just a few days. Masem (t) 13:31, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    We can't seriously talk about anything until it's peer-reviewed. No matter how sensationally it sounds, this may be outright rejected as incorrect.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 13:37, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Peer review is not confirmation and a large proportion of peer-reviewed papers are found to be incorrect -- see the replication crisis &c. That's why WP:MEDRS has a much higher threshold. But we can make the tentative status of such claims clear in our blurbs and so it's better to say something than nothing at all. Andrew🐉(talk) 14:16, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Even if this passed peer review, we would still likely make sure the wording on the claim is tentative, as it would require a broad consemsus in the scientific community to assure this is a new form of life. Absolutely should wait to have that peer review to pass the basic level of fact checking. — Masem (t) 14:36, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Neat discovery, but should be closed per Kiril Kcmastrpc (talk) 13:12, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Oppose This is one of those noms that has an overblown proposed blurb that completely misrepresents the underlying event. The blurb asserts its importance with the claim "A new form of life". None of the sources I consulted state this, and no, it cannot be taken as read. There is no scientific consensus as to whether even viruses are alive: these new structures share the same problematic nature and yet are are even more primitive. The proposal here is that we can skip peer review and scientific consensus building and call it off our own bat. That isn't encyclopedic: far from being promoted on the front page this is skirting with the margins of being PROD-worthy. 3142 (talk) 15:36, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    That's why the altblurb says non-cellular life, which is to life what dwarf planets are to planets. ChaotıċEnby(talk · contribs) 16:11, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose just because the media hyped it as a new discovery despite a lack of scientific rigour in doing so, we shouldn't do the same. No evidence this "discovery" is actually factually correct. Joseph2302 (talk) 16:34, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose So few details known that the article is not up to the required standard. Nigej (talk) 17:05, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Recommend close This discussion was closed due to overwhelming oppose/wait votes, reopened against consensus, and has since garnered a further four opposes. WP:SNOW should apply by now. The Kip 19:42, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Closed) Saravan killings

Consensus will not develop to post. Stephen 10:47, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: 2024 Saravan killings (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Nine Pakistani laborers are killed by unidentified gunmen in the city of Saravan, Iran. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In Iran, nine Pakistani labourers are killed in a mass shooting in Saravan.
News source(s): CNN, France24, VOA, Reuters, Al Jazeera
Credits:
Ainty Painty (talk) 08:10, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Article meets requirements. Einsof (talk) 12:38, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support because the article is to denote a major moment in a possible conflict issue during a period where turbulent Middle Eastern events are front page across the globe. CollationoftheWilling (talk) 12:54, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support as this is significant in the context of the strained Iran-Pakistan relations . 2G0o2De0l (talk) 14:32, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - as long as the gunman aren't identified, any significance in regard to Iran-Pakistan relations is only speculation. Also, the article is a little short for the main page I think ✈ mike_gigs talkcontribs 15:11, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The significant isn't based on whether they are working for the Iranians, but on the wider tensions between Pakistanis and Iranians. CollationoftheWilling (talk) 16:15, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes, but without knowing who or why this shooting took place, there is no way to verifiably link this to the conflict. Saying this event may have an impact on a possible conflict issue would be a violation of WP:CRYSTALBALL ✈ mike_gigs talkcontribs 16:36, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    This would be posted even if there wasn't a link to the Middle East crisis. I just think it is noteworthy that the attack would be perceived (and has been perceived by some media outlets) to be linked to the Middle East crisis. CollationoftheWilling (talk) 16:47, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per mike. _-_Alsor (talk) 17:30, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose because without knowing who did it or why, the death toll isn't high enough to post this. It was probably done by Baloch separatist insurgents as part of the Sistan and Baluchestan insurgency. The attackers may not have known the victims were Pakistanis. 2A00:23C4:B18A:2E01:DD24:747B:26FE:2AA4 (talk) 23:43, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for now on quality I don’t think there are enough details in the “Incident” section. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 00:40, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Mike. Need to be careful that we don’t perform any OR here. The Kip 02:22, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose terrorist attacks are by no means rare in this region, and the vast majority are not even put into the Current Events portal, let alone nominated for ITN. I don't think that this one is so exceptional as to meet or surpass the standards for significance. Given that there hasn't been a new blurb in a long time now, maybe standards for significance should be lowered, but I don't think that this meets even a lower standard. JM (talk) 09:19, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
CollationoftheWilling (talk) 10:38, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The insurgency in Balochistan is at the core of the current Iran-Pakistan tensions, given that both states have accused each other of harboring Baloch rebels, and used them as a justification for their respective strikes. ChaotıċEnby(talk · contribs) 11:36, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

January 30

January 30, 2024 (2024-01-30) (Tuesday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Disasters and accidents

Law and crime

(Posted) RD: Jean Carnahan

Article: Jean Carnahan (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [8]
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

– Muboshgu (talk) 01:01, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support - citations look good ✈ mike_gigs talkcontribs 15:17, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Article quality is fine, good for RD. Alright length + general overview of the article shows no outstanding issues. Cheers, atque supra! Fakescientist8000 21:01, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support -Article quality is ok. No issues.BabbaQ (talk) 22:34, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted to RD. SpencerT•C 05:42, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Melinda Ledbetter

Article: Melinda Ledbetter (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): USA Today
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Looks good. Natg 19 (talk) 00:02, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Chita Rivera

Article: Chita Rivera (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): New York Times
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Article needs some work, especially citing her acting roles ✈ mike_gigs talkcontribs 19:55, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support. Article meets requirements. Einsof (talk) 12:39, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Bruxton (talk) 16:31, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Citations still needed, including filmography and awards. – Muboshgu (talk) 16:36, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support – article is well-referenced and meets minimum depth of coverage for ITN after my edits. —Bloom6132 (talk) 22:57, 5 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Thanks to Bloom6132's work, all the acting credits and awards are cited. Every paragraph after the lede also has at least one citation, and there are no outstanding CN tags. Seems good to go. 70.181.1.68 (talk) 06:02, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted to RD. SpencerT•C 08:30, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Imran Khan jailed for 10 and 14 years

Proposed image
Article: Imran Khan (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Former Prime Minister of Pakistan Imran Khan (pictured in 2023) is sentenced to 10 years in prison for leaking state secrets. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Former Prime Minister of Pakistan Imran Khan (pictured in 2023) is sentenced to 10 years in prison for leaking state secrets, and to 14 years for corruption.
News source(s): BBC News, BBC News
Credits:

Article updated

A one-sentence update, should perhaps be given its own section with aftermath/reactions, but I think the imprisonment of a recent PM (2018-2022) of a country with almost 250 million people is significant enough for ITN. JM (talk) 16:14, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Suport upon major updates - major effects from one of the largest ostensible democracies on Earth. — Knightoftheswords 16:19, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I've added four more sentences and made it a separate paragraph. JM (talk) 16:40, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support, notability is obvious. ChaotıċEnby(talk · contribs) 16:43, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support. A sham trial, if it can be called one. Kirill C1 (talk) 18:28, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose When originally sentenced in August 2023, we couldnt post that due to the same POV tag that still persists on the article. Masem (t) 18:33, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • Support as POV is fixed. While we probably should have posted at conviction, this is still a big enough story given the Khan's reign over Pakistan to still post. (Let's not pretend that should Trump be found guilty of any crime that has a prison sentence attached we'd post that too; same would apply to nearly any major/first-world power country.) --Masem (t) 05:26, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Fix POV tag, then Support: The Prime Minister of Pakistan section has a POV tag, but after this is fixed, support due to obvious notability. 2G0o2De0l (talk) 18:51, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support on notability but the article needs improvement. --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 23:37, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support on notability, but the NPOV dispute has to be solved per above. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 04:16, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Blurb needs changing, the "for leaking state secrets" is too definitive. The BBC source for example words it as "a case in which he was charged with leaking state secrets", we should be similarly circumspect. CMD (talk) 05:08, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I don't see why it'd need to be. He was sentenced for a crime of leaking state secrets. Whether it was a legitimate charge or not is something the article should discuss not the blurb. Traumnovelle (talk) 06:21, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Because the blurb is in WP:Wikivoice, and should not imply the individual leaked state secrets if the source we use to support it does not. CMD (talk) 06:30, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    See my comment below. JM (talk) 07:32, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The blurb says he was sentenced for leaking state secrets, not that he leaked state secrets. That's factual, that's what he was sentenced for, and I don't see much difference between this and the BBC wording. ChaotıċEnby(talk · contribs) 11:36, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment added altblurb due to another sentence being handed down of 14 years. I've left the blurb alone otherwise, as he was indeed sentenced for those crimes, whether he actually committed them or not. The second BBC article says he was jailed "for corruption" in the headline, without qualifying it elsewhere in the headline. Someone sentenced for murder is sentenced "for murder" regardless of whether or not they actually committed murder. JM (talk) 07:31, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    For clarity, the second BBC article was not included in the nomination when I made my comment. Nonetheless, I don't see why less careful wording is being used here than in the last head of state corruption posting regarding the Mauritanian President, for which the BBC article was even more direct. CMD (talk) 07:56, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes, I just added the second BBC article for the second sentence for the altblurb. I stand by the wording, but you can add an Alt2 with your preferred wording. JM (talk) 07:58, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - I often tend to think that topics related to Pakistan are over-published on Wikipedia, but he seems to be a controversial leader of a country who has numerous and volatile geopolitical disputes.
Arind8 (talk) 08:07, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment another editor has added the Lettergate article and bolded it in both blurbs, unfortunately it's also orange-tagged. JM (talk) 08:12, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose There doesn't seem to be a material effect as Khan is already in prison. And these sentences seem these quite political in nature and are easily reversed in Pakistan's unstable polity – see Nawaz Sharif and Imran Khan reverse roles. The main context seems to be the forthcoming election and, per WP:SOAP, we shouldn't be pushing a particular POV ahead of this. Andrew🐉(talk) 08:40, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Andrew, could you please elaborate on that last part? Bremps... 01:23, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The "material effect" is that instead of 3 years in jail, it's now 14 years (or 24 if the sentences are consecutive). The supposed reversability of the sentences is WP:CRYSTAL, and I don't think it's soapboxing or POV to report his prison sentences (and given that you did not elaborate, I don't know why you think it is, either). JM (talk) 06:13, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Paroles and pardons make the duration of such political imprisonments quite uncertain and so the putative effect of this additional sentencing is WP:CRYSTAL too. I looked at the Lettergate article but it seems quite unclear and very political. Overall, this seems like the legal hoo-hah around Trump and his time in office. ITN dismisses that as internal politics and this seems much the same. Andrew🐉(talk) 09:53, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    14 years is 14 years, right now that's what stands, regardless of speculation about pardons and things. If Trump is sentenced to jailtime I have no doubt that it will be blurbed and only a small minority would dismiss it on the basis of it being internal politics, but it's not a big deal if I can't change your mind. JM (talk) 10:07, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    There are appeals in progress, I gather, but it's hard to tell the details from the meagre updates to the articles. For example, the Lettergate article which is bolded in the blurb doesn't seem to have any update about this. Andrew🐉(talk) 11:54, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    For the record I didn't add or bold the lettergate article, someone changed the blurbs. JM (talk) 12:09, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The Lettergate article is orange-tagged with multiple issues. I checked the equivalent Toshakhana reference case which ITN is headlining too. The update for that is feeble and the source provided says nothing about that case. The main article about Khan has pathetic updates too. There's no quality control here and this is inexcusable when the matter is so controversial and political. There are numerous red flags here: BLP, an ongoing election, irregular court proceedings, controversial topic sanctions and EPC protection and yet ITN is posting a tendentious headline without adequate context or quality. Instead of checking the lamentable quality of these articles, we see editors engaging in irrelevant arguments about geography. Tsk. Andrew🐉(talk) 10:18, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Neither of those articles were in the original blurb I proposed, so they have nothing to do with me. Lettergate was untagged and recently retagged, Toshakhana wasn't even in the blurb when it was posted as far as I'm aware. I don't see where you see BLP issues or anything tendentious, no POV is being taken: he was indeed convicted, corrupt court or not, and it's news, election or not. Context is found in the bolded article, there isn't enough room to give the background. No one else seems to have any issues and it's already up anyway. JM (talk) 16:48, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The bland presentation of the current blurb gives the impression that these new sentences were issued in a conventional and respectable legal way. But the coverage indicates that this is not the case. For example, see this analysis, "...it was made clear that the military would stop at nothing to sideline Khan and destroy his Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf (PTI) party. Any pretence of due judicial process being followed was abandoned entirely at both cases where Khan was sentenced this week. Instead of an open courtroom, the trials were conducted inside the jail where Khan is being detained and his lawyers were not allowed to choose or cross-examine any witnesses." Such coverage indicates that these are trumped-up proceedings intended mainly to influence the outcome of the election. The blurb does not present the matter in a balanced way and so is lacking adequate NPOV. Andrew🐉(talk) 19:28, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    When I wrote the blurb I followed the BBC headlines I used for sources. If NPOV indeed means following sources, I don't think I could have done better than rephrasing the BBC headlines for the blurb, which is the equivalent of a headline. JM (talk) 19:58, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Per WP:HEADLINES, "News headlines—including subheadlines—are not a reliable source. ... Headlines are written to grab readers' attention quickly and briefly; they may be overstated or lack context...". Some context that's missing currently is the general election and the related suppression of the popular PTI party. Andrew🐉(talk) 23:31, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Sentencing a former prime minister, who exercised power in his country, is significant no matter if he's already in prison.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 11:30, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Article meets requirements. Einsof (talk) 12:40, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support because of the ongoing situation in the Middle East. CollationoftheWilling (talk) 12:58, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Just FYI Pakistan is not in the Middle East and this situation is unrelated to Middle East or Iranian ongoing situations JM (talk) 14:18, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Pakistan is variously described as being in the Middle East. Several maps including by respectable outlets such as ABC have put Pakistan in the Middle East. The "situation" in the Middle East refers to turmoil/conflict/controversy that surrounds the Middle East currently. CollationoftheWilling (talk) 16:17, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's like if a Canadian prime minister was jailed and someone said "Support because of the ongoing situation in North America". ChaotıċEnby(talk · contribs) 18:08, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There are two issues here.
Pakistan can be variously described as being in the Middle East, just how Turkey is described as being in the Middle East. In many perspectives of South Asian culture it's impossible to consider them South Asian, but I'll leave this topic considering it's non-negotiable that they are variously considered to be Middle Eastern, and I will concede that they are also variously considered to be South Asian.
https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/how-ten-middle-east-conflicts-are-converging-into-one-big-war
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/20/seemingly-disparate-middle-east-conflicts-show-collective-erosion-of-self-restraint
The second point is that what seems to be numerous unrelated conflicts are being perceived to merge into one big conflict. I am one of those perceivers. You're focusing on the Eagle Pass situation as a stand alone conflict, where I am also using the wider US election and asylum crisis in Canada - US border to consider the crisis to be "North American". (though the comparison is silly because the Middle East is very unique geopolitics and comparisons probably won't be found). CollationoftheWilling (talk) 05:21, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Is there any definition of South Asia that doesn't include Pakistan? I've never encountered one. But it doesn't matter for this nomination anyway. The point is that regardless of where Pakistan is located, the significance of Imran Khan being jailed does not come from "ongoing situations" involving Iran, Israel and Palestine, Yemen, or Syria. JM (talk) 05:35, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Furthermore there are citaions that can be used for the writing that Pakistan is part of the Middle East conflict:
"Violence has erupted across the Mideast, with Iran striking targets in Iraq, Pakistan and Syria, and the U.S. carrying out airstrikes targeting Yemen’s Iran-backed Houthi rebels over their attacks on shipping in the Red Sea. Some observers fear a new round of strikes targeting Iran could tip the region into a wider war."
https://apnews.com/article/yemen-houthi-us-navy-mideast-tensions-israel-hamas-red-sea-6d5662d09aad8aed0875025b75928ef5 CollationoftheWilling (talk) 05:43, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The "Middle East" is a confusing term anyways; some say it's just the Arabian Peninsula, others have it as far reaching as Morocco and India. Personally I use the 'Islamic World' PrecariousWorlds (talk) 19:45, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support POV tags gone, major news. Bremps... 01:22, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support altblurb per above and the other prison sentence should be mentioned too. Brandmeistertalk 09:41, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. If Donald Trump is convicted and jailed, that will absolutely be posted, and this is no different. (they each claim their cases are politically motivated, too). 331dot (talk) 09:43, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Alternative blurb the arrest of a recent head of state is major news
Setarip (talk) 13:39, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support arrest of a former head of state is ITN worthy, and the bolded article looks to be good enough to post. Joseph2302 (talk) 16:35, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted There's consensus to post and I have put the altblurb onto the main page. Schwede66 18:13, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting comment He and his wife have now been sentenced to 7 years in prison for illegal marriage (BBC). --84.252.98.97 (talk) 15:53, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    He has been charged with numerous offences since he was ousted from power and the number has continued to escalate so that it's now stated by recent sources as a remarkable 150. It seems apparent that an order has gone out to throw the book at him and so there's presumably a department of the military government now dedicated to dreaming up new charges. Are we going to keep reporting these? Andrew🐉(talk) 20:26, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) ECOWAS

Proposed image
Article: ECOWAS (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Burkina Faso, Mali and Niger announce that they are leaving the Economic Community of West African States (ECOWAS). (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Amidst the Nigerien crisis, Burkina Faso, Mali and Niger announce their withdrawal from the Economic Community of West African States (ECOWAS).
Alternative blurb II: ​ Amidst the Nigerien crisis, Burkina Faso, Mali and Niger announce their intention to withdraw from the Economic Community of West African States (ECOWAS).
News source(s): Al Jazeera
Credits:

Article updated

There's some uncertainty about the timing as ECOWAS requires time for an orderly withdrawal but those exiting say that it's immediate Andrew🐉(talk) 08:53, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support, major development in the context of a regional cold war (cf. Nigerien crisis (2023–present) and Alliance of Sahel States) ChaotıċEnby(talk · contribs) 10:14, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support - Fairly notable, given the context of the withdrawal. There is an orange-tagged section in the article, though, so perhaps we should work on that first before posting. Bucket of sulfuric acid (he/him | talk) 10:40, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - suggest providing context for ITN readers about this; most will not be aware of the implication of this. --RockstoneSend me a message! 10:46, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Good idea indeed! ChaotıċEnby(talk · contribs) 10:50, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support article updated, major international event with future consequences for Africa. JM (talk) 10:49, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
(What an odd map.) JM (talk) 16:54, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, Guinea hasn't officially withdrawn from ECOWAS, it was only suspended like the other states a few months back for supporting Niger. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 18:22, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I was referring to the assortment of European and Asian countries scattered in the north. JM (talk) 18:29, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oh yeah that too lol. Northern Europe has sunk into the ocean, RIP PrecariousWorlds (talk) 19:27, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Apparently the old versions were cropped around Africa, but someone in 2021 uploaded an uncropped version and here we are. ChaotıċEnby(talk · contribs) 21:56, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
CMD changed it back, looks much better now. It's strange how it ever looked like that, with the uncropped version having the full maps of the countries partially visible in the cropped version while missing entire countries that would then also be visible. I wonder if it has something to do with the way these maps are made, which is totally unknown to me. Anyway, the current version is much better. JM (talk) 07:19, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Oppose - This really is not significant. These states had already de facto left ECOWAS a loong time ago. This is really just a formality, it has no real effect on anything. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 13:54, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The coups and resulting suspension of these members was notable and we blurbed it, this is irrelevant. I also doubt the ECOWAS members will accept this as they still only recognise the previous government as the legal representative of Niger. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 14:00, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It is bewildering that you consider this international event - one that actually affects the political status of several major African nations - insignificant compared to the Texas standoff. But then again, I suppose there always have been concerns about systemic bias on ITN/C. Duly signed, ⛵ WaltClipper -(talk) 16:06, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The Texas standoff is a serious constitutional crisis in the most powerful democracy in the world that has garnered major global attention. This is nothing more than an irrelevant change in status that had already de facto been enacted months before (and we also blurbed it already). How does this actually affect the political status of West Africa, apart from only confirming legally something that had already been true in the real-world for ages? PrecariousWorlds (talk) 18:15, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Their membership in the African Union, which is the most important supranational union in Africa, was suspended shortly following the coups. There's really no need to post their withdrawal from this regional union.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 15:11, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    To be fair, the AU is virtually irrelevant in African politics and little more a regional forum, whetheras ECOWAS is an almost EU-like political union. Sort of like how the Council of Europe is to the European Union. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 18:21, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I don’t get the same impression from this template. ECOWAS is part of AEC, which in turn is an organisation of the African Union.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 18:54, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    In reality ECOWAS has nothing to do with the AU (the AEC is essentially a vague umbrella organisation to promote free trade rather than an organised economic institution). ECOWAS on the otherhand has a passport union, Schengen-like free movement, has organised multiple joint military operations, and continues to integrate further. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 19:24, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per Chaotic Enby, albeit the article needs some work - large portions of the “Structure” and “Economic integration” sections appear to be missing refs. The Kip 17:20, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per PrecariousWorlds, do not see much in the way of consequences either. nableezy - 17:44, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support fairly notable, major international event. Editor 5426387 (talk) 17:46, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Seems like another noteworthy flashpoint in the Nigerian conflict. Might just go down as a footnote, but this is another instance of the Alliance of Sahel States distancing themselves from the rest of West Africa. DarkSide830 (talk) 17:50, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Support - I think this is notable enough for ITN, but I agree with Rockstone that a bit more context in the burb would be helpful ✈ mike_gigs talkcontribs 18:18, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I would've liked to mention the proposed ECOWAS military intervention as context, but connecting the two might be a bit close to OR. ChaotıċEnby(talk · contribs) 21:59, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support due to restarting the nigerien crisis Lukt64 (talk) 20:47, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Citation needed PrecariousWorlds (talk) 21:33, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support on notability but the map definitely needs to be improved --MtPenguinMonster (talk) 23:35, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. If one country left the EU we would post that; three countries leaving ECOWAS should also warrant posting. BilledMammal (talk) 01:00, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support on notability, this is a major event. The opposition above relating to the AU is incorrect, the AU is built upon these regional pillars rather than the other way around. ECOWAS is as noted above an organization that actually does things, one of the more effective regional organizations on the continent (in the world?). That said, the blurb should be clear it is reporting on the announcement, rather than implying it has actually happened. Such things are often complicated by politics and time (see Pacific Islands Forum#Micronesian withdrawal for an example), so we should be precise. Not commenting on quality, but I am going to fix that map. CMD (talk) 03:13, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes but it has already de facto happened. These countries have had nothing to do with ECOWAS for months. This changes literally nothing PrecariousWorlds (talk) 07:31, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support on notability, oppose on quality This is notable enough for ITN, but the article’s quality needs a bit of improvement. A better map would also be nice. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 04:26, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - I think there is a regional notability in terms of Africa, the Middle East (the Arab world), and the link with France and the EU through linguistic, economic and political ties. It's not really a major topic in the Anglosphere however.
CollationoftheWilling (talk) 16:19, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support in principle but oppose language of original blurb & alt1. In effect, what these countries did is announce their intention to withdraw, but they did not leave, despite claiming to be "withdrawing without delay." The equivalent would be if the UK announced in 2016 after the Brexit vote that they are "leaving the EU without delay" – it isn't exactly that simple, and ECOWAS gave a response clarifying that they are still members at this time. Provided an alt2.  Vanilla  Wizard 💙 21:55, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • ECOWAS had previously suspended the membership of these countries and can't have it both ways. Also, it doesn't recognise the governments of those countries and so has another bind unless it sponsors governments-in-exile or attempts to occupy the countries. Andrew🐉(talk) 22:53, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • This isn't accurate. Acknowledging the legal difference between suspended membership and non-membership is not the same as trying to have it both ways. To give another analogy, let's imagine that the EU suspended Hungary and Orbán proceeded to declare "We are withdrawing effective immediately." It just doesn't work like that. If the EU were to respond with a statement that acknowledges they continue to be a member, this wouldn't be them "trying to have it both ways." The original blurb is simply factually incorrect and contradicts what reliable sources say. From the BBC: "According to the [ECOWAS] treaty, member states wishing to withdraw must give written notice a year in advance, and continue to abide by its provisions during that year."  Vanilla  Wizard 💙 23:34, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      Regardless of these semantics, I still haven't found any good argument as to what makes all of this legal jargon notable. What use does this story have? There's been absolutely no real-world effect of this, as these states have not been participating in the organisation for months. We have also blurbed the initial suspension of these members already. What's the point? How is a minor change in legal status that has no relevance to anything notable? PrecariousWorlds (talk) 12:32, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      There are significant ramifications, as explained by Reuters. Andrew🐉(talk) 13:46, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      Notable excerpt from said article: But, if carried through, it is set to disrupt the region's trade and services flows, worth nearly $150 billion a year. ... It also raises questions over millions of nationals from the three poor and landlocked nations who settled in neighbouring states as the bloc allows visa-free travel and right to work. I see this as likely to spiral into a economic (and thus humanitarian) crisis with long-lasting ramifications. Duly signed, ⛵ WaltClipper -(talk) 14:24, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      WP:CRYSTAL. If this has major ramifications for trade and a famine ends up happening, then we post. As of yet, nothing has happened. If the story continues to develop into a crisis, we'll post that crisis. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 17:20, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

      Predictions, speculation, forecasts and theories stated by reliable, expert sources or recognized entities in a field may be included
      — WP:CRYSTAL

      Aaron Liu (talk) 03:07, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      We still don't post events that haven't happened yet PrecariousWorlds (talk) 09:23, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      We posted when Russia recognized two states because it could lead to war. Aaron Liu (talk) 13:01, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      Way different situation as there the change had massive real world consequences immediately PrecariousWorlds (talk) 10:40, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      Nobody is arguing posting events that haven't happened yet. The argument is does this event alone (three nations leaving the ECOWAS) have major implications for the stability of the continent, and the answer from reliable sources is yes. This is different from trying to post an ITN item of some politician proposing a law to ban cookies, because the law isn't in effect yet. This event is far further along on the Friedrich Glasl's model of conflict escalation. Duly signed, ⛵ WaltClipper -(talk) 14:45, 2 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      I can understand the consequence this might have, but as I said, we have already posted the suspension of these members from ECOWAS, and little has changed to the stability of the region in the present. And also, just like the law proposing to ban cookies not being in effect yet, so too is this announcement of withdrawal not in effect yet.
      Even by article quality standards, there are only two lines mentioning the announcement on the article. It's getting barely any media attention, most of the actual fallout from this decision happened months ago. It would be ridiculous to blurb this and not, say, the current rapidly escalating situation in Iran. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 10:50, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Admins willing to post ITN: someone want to evaluate this? Seems to have a solid consensus to post, and quality issues with the article have been addressed. The Kip 20:02, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posting ALT0, since the paragraph update in the article makes no mention of the Nigerian crisis. – Muboshgu (talk) 20:08, 3 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

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