Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates

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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 50.193.19.66 (talk) at 17:00, 13 December 2022 (→‎Post-announcement comments: Reply). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Click here to nominate an item for In the news. In the news toolbox
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This page provides a place to discuss new items for inclusion on In the news (ITN), a protected template on the Main Page (see past items in the ITN archives). Do not report errors in ITN items that are already on the Main Page here— discuss those at the relevant section of WP:ERRORS.

This candidates page is integrated with the daily pages of Portal:Current events. A light green header appears under each daily section - it includes transcluded Portal:Current events items for that day. You can discuss ITN candidates under the header.

Ebrahim Raisi in 2023
Ebrahim Raisi

view — page history — related changes — edit

Glossary

  • Blurbs are one-sentence summaries of the news story.
    • Altblurbs, labelled alt1, alt2, etc., are alternative suggestions to cover the same story.
    • A target article, bolded in text, is the focus of the story. Each blurb must have at least one such article, but you may also link non-target articles.
  • Articles in the Ongoing line describe events getting continuous coverage.
  • The Recent deaths (RD) line includes any living thing whose death was recently announced. Consensus may decide to create a blurb for a recent death.

All articles linked in the ITN template must pass our standards of review. They should be up-to-date, demonstrate relevance via good sourcing and have at least an acceptable quality.

Nomination steps

  • Make sure the item you want to nominate has an article that meets our minimum requirements and contains reliable coverage of a current event you want to create a blurb about. We will not post about events described in an article that fails our quality standards.
  • Find the correct section below for the date of the event (not the date nominated). Do not add sections for new dates manually - a bot does that for us each day at midnight (UTC).
  • Create a level 4 header with the article name (==== Your article here ====). Add (RD) or (Ongoing) if appropriate.
Then paste the {{ITN candidate}} template with its parameters and fill them in. The news source should be reliable, support your nomination and be in the article. Write your blurb in simple present tense. Below the template, briefly explain why we should post that event. After that, save your edit. Your nomination is ready!
  • You may add {{ITN note}} to the target article's talk page to let editors know about your nomination.

The better your article's quality, the better it covers the event and the wider its perceived significance (see WP:ITNSIGNIF for details), the better your chances of getting the blurb posted.

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Headers

  • When the article is ready, updated and there is consensus to post, you can mark the item as (Ready). Remove that wording if you feel the article fails any of these necessary criteria.
  • Admins should always separately verify whether these criteria are met before posting blurbs marked (Ready). For more guidance, check WP:ITN/A.
    • If satisfied, change the header to (Posted).
    • Where there is no consensus, or the article's quality remains poor, change the header to (Closed) or (Not posted).
    • Sometimes, editors ask to retract an already-posted nomination because of a fundamental error or because consensus changed. If you feel the community supports this, remove the item and mark the item as (Pulled).

Voicing an opinion on an item

Format your comment to contain "support" or "oppose", and include a rationale for your choice. In particular, address the notability of the event, the quality of the article, and whether it has been updated.

Please do...

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  1. Pick an older item to review near the bottom of this page, before the eligibility runs out and the item scrolls off the page and gets abandoned in the archive, unused and forgotten.
  2. Review an item even if it has already been reviewed by another user. You may be the first to spot a problem, or the first to confirm that an identified problem was fixed. Piling on the list of "support!" votes will help administrators see what is ready to be posted on the Main Page.
  3. Tell about problems in articles if you see them. Be bold and fix them yourself if you know how, or tell others if it's not possible.

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  1. Add simple "support!" or "oppose!" votes without including your reasons. Similarly, curt replies such as "who?", "meh", or "duh!" are not helpful. A vote without reasoning means little for us, please elaborate yourself.
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  5. Oppose a recurring item here because you disagree with the recurring items criteria. Discuss them here.
  6. Use ITN as a forum for your own political or personal beliefs. Such comments are irrelevant to the outcome and are potentially disruptive.

Suggesting updates

There are two places where you can request corrections to posted items:

  • Anything that does not change the intent of the blurb (spelling, grammar, markup issues, updating death tolls etc.) should be discussed at WP:Errors.
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Archives

December 13

December 13, 2022 (2022-12-13) (Tuesday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Science and technology

Sports

RD: Abigail Kawānanakoa

Article: Abigail Kinoiki Kekaulike Kawānanakoa (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC News
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Member of the Hawaiian Royal Family and philanthropist  The C of E God Save the King! (talk) 16:10, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

December 12

December 12, 2022 (2022-12-12) (Monday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Law and crime

Politics and elections

  • All members of Belgium's Political Bureau of the Walloon Parliament resign after a scandal concerning excessive public spending by parliamentary clerk Frédéric Janssens. Bureau President Jean-Claude Marcourt, who had been criticized for taking part in a luxury 3-day trip to Dubai for €20,000 using public funds, had previously refused to be the only person to resign if all other members of the Bureau did not resign. (RTBF)

RD: Stuart Margolin

Article: Stuart Margolin (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Hollywood Reporter, Deadline
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Needs a lot of work Mooonswimmer 15:56, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Mike Leach

Article: Mike Leach (American football coach) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): USA Today
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: College football head coach at Texas Tech, Washington State, and Mississippi State. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 14:24, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The Boy in the Box identified

Article: Murder of Joseph Augustus Zarelli (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The 4-year-old murder victim known as The Boy in the Box for 65 years, has been identified. (Post)
News source(s): [1]
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Notorious (and for many, quite emotional) cold case, has finally been identified 2607:F470:E:22:E9A5:92B5:D38D:EA15 (talk) 23:46, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Note this was announced on Dec 8. --Masem (t) 23:53, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose ice-cold case. Great for his family to get closure if they're still alive, but otherwise it's a singular murder case from the 1960s. Juxlos (talk) 00:53, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Juxlos. Outside of maybe an identification of the Zodiac Killer or Jack the Ripper, I don't see any cold case as being worthy of ITN. DarkSide830 (talk) 00:55, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • OpposeGood faith nomination, but not what ITN is meant for.Paradise Chronicle (talk) 11:17, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per above. _-_Alsor (talk) 11:33, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Mirosław Hermaszewski

Proposed image
Article: Mirosław Hermaszewski (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): TVP World, The Guardian
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: First Polish man in space, article is close to ok. Brandmeistertalk 20:19, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Support - Notable death of a prominent and decorated Polish figure. Article is very well-referenced and written. JumbledPasta (talk) 02:58, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, was first and only Polish person to make it to space. Would be nice to see. --Ouro (blah blah) 03:41, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support great article. Also there is a cracking photo of him in astronaut gear, I'm in no way suggesting a blurb, but just a photo maybe worth considering? Added image to nomination. Abcmaxx (talk) 06:51, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Have we ever put a photo of an RD up without a blurb? PrecariousWorlds (talk) 10:56, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes, infrequently. Curbon7 (talk) 12:26, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted. --PFHLai (talk) 11:01, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Arrest of suspect in Pan Am Flight 103 bombing

Article: Pan Am Flight 103 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Suspected bomber of Pan Am Flight 103, Abu Agila Mohammad Masud, is in US custody after being kidnapped in Lybia by a militia group. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Suspected Lockerbie bomber Abu Agila Mohammad Masud is in US custody after being kidnapped by a militia in Libya.
News source(s): BBC, NPR
Credits:

Nominator's comments: This seems quite major in my view, but not sure if others view it as ITN worthy. EvergreenFir (talk) 18:48, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Wait We typically post convictions, not arrests. But if he is in fact convicted, and assuming article quality is up to scratch, I'd likely support. -Ad Orientem (talk) 19:44, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Wait - Per Ad Orientem. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 19:51, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose We don't post arrests of suspects. HiLo48 (talk) 20:26, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per HiLo. If this man is convicted, it would be an ITNR-worthy decision. _-_Alsor (talk) 00:38, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose We may post the sentencing, I think that would be of ITN interest, but not arrest. And especially not this one, which doesn't feel all too important to me: the incident was a long time ago; it's not like this arrest reveals a suspect, just means he's been found; and he is accused of manufacturing the bomb, i.e. one of many involved in the conspiracy, not the sole perpetrator. Wasn't there one Lockerbie bomber who has already been found guilty, served his sentence, been released, and died, in the years since it happened. Kingsif (talk) 13:26, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Corruption in EU parliament

Articles: Eva Kaili (talk · history · tag) and Qatar corruption scandal at the European Parliament (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Previous blurb removed per WP:BLPTALK. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Eight people are arrested in connection with the Qatar corruption scandal at the European Parliament.
News source(s): [2], [3]
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: A prominent case of corruption in a major player on world politics Paradise Chronicle (talk) 09:15, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Needs work The wave of arrests seems similar to the German plot which we are currently blurbing. But we need an article about the corruption scandal rather than a focus on particular BLPs. Andrew🐉(talk) 10:40, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I'd perhaps support this if a clear link is made to the FIFA World Cup or anything else achieved through corruption. Otherwise, an MEP accused for corruption without further details isn't plausible enough.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 10:49, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Italian MEP Dino Giarrusso said he and many other legislators in Brussels had been approached by Qatari officials numerous times since 2019. “They were hoping to improve the country’s reputation especially in the run-up to the Fifa World Cup”" FT Andrew🐉(talk) 12:39, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Update I've started a draft article about the matter: Qatar corruption scandal at the European Parliament Andrew🐉(talk) 11:01, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Tentative support - But it needs a better blurb. 'Accused for corruption charges' is not idiomatic English; if the arrests are the substantive legal action, they should be the focus. GenevieveDEon (talk) 12:54, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • WP:BLP? - While I think the topic is certainly ITN blurb worthy, have we suddenly forgotten there's some almighty big BLP issue here. Accusation, arrest, and charges are not conviction. Since when do we post someone's being accused of a crime on the main page when there's not even been a trial yet?!? -- KTC (talk) 14:06, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • The German plot was just posted on the basis of arrests rather than convictions. To minimise BLP issues, we can blurb such mass arrests in a general way rather than naming names. Andrew🐉(talk) 14:22, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose a rather run-of-the-mill corruption scheme versus a (albeit ludicrous) plot to overthrow the German government doesn't seem comparable in my opinion. But even if this is posted, as mentioned above, remove the name(s) from the blurb to avoid BLP issues. YD407OTZ (talk) 16:09, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support article is in OK shape and the news is covering this. Oppose current blurb as a trainwreck, however, someone is going to have to do better than that! --Jayron32 17:09, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong support on principle, though oppose current blurb. DecafPotato (talk) 17:59, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    I agree a better blurb can be found. Events are evolving quickly though. In a few hours we had a new article and in a few more probably also a new name. Something like: A Vice President of the Parliament was dismissed and arrested after bags full of cash were found in her apartment. We don't know though with certainty how much it was.
    Her father was found with a suitcase full of cash, which then sparked the raids.Paradise Chronicle (talk) 18:23, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, however oppose blurb Article seems to be in solid shape and being improved compared to when I read it a couple hours ago. I have to say though, the current blurb seems really clunky, so on that front, we should have a better one. TheBlueSkyClub (talk) 18:47, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment for blurb: There are currently eight people arrested according to the Qatar corruption scandal at the European Parliament article.Jo Jc JoTalk💬Edits📝 19:19, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • 'Weak Oppose' It's a high profile case, so this is a close call. But our normal practice is to post convictions vice arrests. That said I can understand the argument for posting given who we are talking about and if TFG is ever indicted, I'd probably support. -Ad Orientem (talk) 19:48, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • When there are mass arrests of multiple high-profile people by multiple authorities, as in this case, then the trials are unlikely to conclude in a simultaneous and tidy way. This is therefore our only opportunity. Andrew🐉(talk) 20:10, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    That's a good point. Moving to weak support. -Ad Orientem (talk) 22:27, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The issue is more that there are heavy indications that there existed corruption in the European Parliament. That a president of the EU parliament has to come back from vacations to personally observe a raid on the vice-president in which bags full of cash were found...Corruption in the highest levels in the EU parliament is the issue, the arrests are just a by-product. Paradise Chronicle (talk) 11:55, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Significant news. There is a "named reference "FT" was defined multiple times with different content" error but otherwise the article looks good. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 05:46, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, It is important news and article looks good. Alex-h (talk) 15:47, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

(Re-opened) First net-gain nuclear fusion reaction

Article: Fusion power (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Scientists at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory announce, in a breakthrough for fusion power technology, that they have produced a nuclear fusion reaction that achieved a net gain of energy. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Scientists at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory announce, in a breakthrough for fusion power technology, that they have used the technique of inertial confinement fusion to achieve a net gain of energy.
News source(s): FT, WaPo, The Times
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Being called a breakthrough / the "holy grail" by RS, with the U.S. secretary of energy set to make an announcement on Tuesday. Davey2116 (talk) 05:01, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Pre-announcement comments

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

  • Wait They are said to be announcing this week/tomorrow, which appears to include the publication of a peer-reviewed paper that supports this. We do want to make sure that there is a peer-reviewed source behind this, as that's what we'll need to properly update the article. --Masem (t) 05:03, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Blurb needs to be simplified somewhat, a bit too convoluted at the moment. Curbon7 (talk) 06:01, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Look at this wording in the article.... "Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory's National Ignition Facility had achieved a net energy gain from a fusion reaction, according to three unnamed sources with alleged knowledge of experiments conducted there". (My bolding.) That's simply not good enough for a topic as controversial as this one. HiLo48 (talk) 06:11, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Waitsupport in principle, it would be groundbreaking news for the world, but I do not find it in any website yet without a paywall.Paradise Chronicle (talk) 08:26, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose This is obviously not the first net-gain nuclear fusion reaction as H-bombs achieved this in a big way years ago. Anyway, there was some reporting from the National Ignition Facility in early November – see [4]; [5]. If that's what's being talked about then it's stale. Andrew🐉(talk) 08:34, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    I guess you could technically charge a battery with a nuclear blast, but 1) I would rather doubt that anyone has ever gotten much usable energy out of a nuclear blast, and 2) that's a silly comparison :p ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 09:05, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    An H-bomb usually uses a focused A-bomb to compress a capsule and cause it to ignite. The Livermore experiments now use hundreds of lasers but it's much the same idea. Use of H-bombs for power generation and other civilian purposes was explored years ago – see Peaceful nuclear explosion, Project PACER and Project Gnome. So, the fundamental science has been done. It's now a matter of practical engineering and economics. Don't hold your breath... Andrew🐉(talk) 09:20, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Doing it with lasers is closer to practical wind/solar/geothermal/hydro/fission/etc/grid energy storage replacements than doing it with H-bombs. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 14:06, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Wait - Per Masem. This definitely needs to be posted though, groundbreaking news. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 10:29, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait per Masem's comment above. I support blurbing this one but the official announcement (including the peer-reviewed paper) should be released first. Vida0007 (talk) 12:04, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

:Wait and add of course. I wanted to add this suggestion myself. Per Masem, the blurb needs to be backed up by a relevant piece in the article, which should be backed up by a suitable source. --Ouro (blah blah) 12:20, 12 December 2022 (UTC) Changing to add as the breakthrough was announced during the press conference. --Ouro (blah blah) 15:47, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose - The initial reports appear to be overselling the actual achievement. GenevieveDEon (talk) 12:55, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Still wait - Until the actual press conference, which I believe is today. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 14:21, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Post-announcement comments

I'm late to this but Financial Times appears to have broken it, The New York Times has repeated the story, and both Politico and CNN may have independently confirmed from other sources now. I've added sources to National Ignition Facility for inspection. ☆ Bri (talk) 01:49, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I think we ought to consider this item reopened. Most of the people who participated at this ITN were asking to wait, rather than opposing outright, contrary to Kiril's closure rationale. --🌈WaltCip-(talk) 12:32, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
My closure rationale was "no consensus to post at this time", which clearly reflects the pile-up of wait votes, not that there was any outright opposition. I had it in mind that the nomination should be re-opened and just wanted to prevent an overflow of further wait votes.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 15:15, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait for the peer-reviewed paper. This appears to have been a leak or embargo breach, not an official announcement. Modest Genius talk 15:15, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Now Oppose. Here is the presser from DOE [6]. The experiment they are raving on about took place only on Dec 5, and there is no sign of a peer review paper or collaboration. I do not expect the national labs to be faking their result but we really do need a paper with peer review to affirm. --Masem (t) 15:25, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment At the initial phase of the press event DoE said outside experts evaluated the results, which is part of the reason to delay till today for announcing the December 5 experiment. Not sure who exactly it was doing the review. Probably more coming at the panel discussion. ☆ Bri (talk) 15:39, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong support as a groundbreaking scientific breakthrough, which is Wikipedia and ITN's wheelhouse, plus the topic's coverage in front-page stories from some of the largest news outlets in the world. That ought to be enough for a section titled "in the news" and not "in the scientific literature". Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 15:52, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • It doesn't seem to be ground-breaking as, per the PR, they've been working on this approach for 60 years. Getting to break-even point isn't a big achievement as every existing power system does better than that -- just use a match to light a pile of sticks, for example. What's needed for success is that the TCO is better than rival systems. This is why H-bomb fusion power was not pursued – see Project PACER. Andrew🐉(talk) 16:33, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, but I would rather see National Ignition Facility mentioned because of the issues banner displayed in Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory. —Arsonal (talk + contribs)— 15:59, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    • Support with main article being National Ignition Facility. this is one of those events that people will consider for renumbering of years, ie BF/Before Fusion, AF/After Fusion. Mercurywoodrose not logged in.50.193.19.66 (talk) 16:57, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose The DoE press-release is quite nauseating in that it credits a long list of politicians and administrators but doesn't name the scientists and technicians who actually devised and conducted the experiment in question. And, as it's just a glory-stealing bit of PR with no independent confirmation, it's not a reliable source. Andrew🐉(talk) 16:06, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    • Do the literally dozens of reliable news articles, plenty of which aren't based on just the press release, not count? :-) Also, noting that you already opposed once above. Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 16:32, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
      • The news media is not reliable when it's just recycling a press-release. See churnalism and WP:PRSOURCE. As for this discussion, this seems to be a formal part II in which we respond to the further details, such as they are. Andrew🐉(talk) 16:37, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
      It has been.standard practice for us at ITN to make sure a scientific breakthrough is accompanied by a peer review publication to assure there is some oversight of the science. A massive press conference and news cover does not make up for that. Masem (t) 16:42, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    we wont get full independent confirmation, as details of the techniques are highly classified. i would suggest that we assume multiple layers of internal review and bureacracy making this announcement unvarnished truth at core. the backlash to the DOE/LLL would be absurd if they messed this up. this is THE holy grail of energy generation.Mercurywoodrose 50.193.19.66 (talk) 17:00, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support on significance. It's being covered very widely by reliable sources around the world, therefore it's in the news. I'll trust the editorial judgement of the world's news media over the lay opinions of the editors above. {{u|Sdkb}} talk 16:44, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • The news media routinely over-hypes scientific papers. For example, see "Major breakthrough on nuclear fusion energy". That's from the BBC -- a reliable source, right? But then notice that it's from back in February about another grand claim from a different lab. I noticed that at the time and decided that it didn't amount to anything. Andrew🐉(talk) 16:53, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Jim Carr

Article: Jim Carr (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CBC News
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Canadian politician with an extensive history in both provincial and federal politics. Rushtheeditortalk 16:59, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment This looks well written, but there are still three cn tags in the article. Vida0007 (talk) 09:34, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

December 11

December 11, 2022 (2022-12-11) (Sunday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

  • South Sudan declares a measles outbreak with a spokesperson for the Ministry of Health reporting that there are currently 2,471 cases and 31 deaths from measles reported in 22 counties. (Xinhua)

Law and crime

Science and technology

Wolf Erlbruch

Article: Wolf Erlbruch (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Spiegel
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: German writer and illustrator of children's books which are not only for children (Duck, Death and the Tulip), first German to be awarded the Swedish prize that is kind of the Nobel prize in the field. - Article was remarkably good, made only minor formatting changes, and used some refs more than once. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:09, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Angelo Badalamenti

Article: Angelo Badalamenti (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Hollywood Reporter, Los Angeles Times, Pitchfork
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Badalementi was the composer for all of David Lynch's films starting from Blue Velvet in 1986; also a Grammy and ASCAP award winner. CurryTime7-24 (talk) 23:15, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Thank you for nominating! Some facts in the prose are without refs, and also the awards. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:31, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Let me get to work on that in a moment. Currently working on work work. ;) — CurryTime7-24 (talk) 23:56, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

European Film Awards

Articles: 35th European Film Awards (talk · history · tag) and Triangle of Sadness (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Triangle of Sadness takes four top prizes, including for best film, best director and best actor, at European Film Awards. (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian
Credits:

Article updated
  • Oppose on quality. Table farm, very little prose. --Jayron32 17:10, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose on quality, and per Jayron32.Paradise Chronicle (talk) 19:26, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I've never heard of these and find no nomination in prior year. We cannot post all awards for cinema, so we select only the most significant. A fair number have been included at ITN/R, so I think a case would have to be made to expand the glut any further. GreatCaesarsGhost 20:46, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    I proposed adding it on talk. I can not speak for everyone and don't know whether everyone heard of them. It is a major Film Award, it recognises European cinema, not only English language films and not only films screened in LA. The Awards have significant coverage - this is what counts. Previous ceremonies [7] [8] [9] [10] are covered in the same sources that cover Oscars and BAFTAS. Kirill C1 (talk) 21:04, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    It is covered this year, too [11] [12] [13] [14]. Kirill C1 (talk) 21:08, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    I would not dispute any of that. But there are unquestionably a great many events that have significant coverage in the press that we nevertheless do not cover here in the interest of balancing the topics covered. The threshold certainly varies (e.g. soccer gets more events than gridiron) but this one is already well represented. Also, the Cannes and Berlin are more prestigious awards that honor European and non-English films. GreatCaesarsGhost 23:27, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for everything GCG says. _-_Alsor (talk) 00:16, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Kenneth Powell (sprinter)

Article: Kenneth Powell (sprinter) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Sportstar (India)
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Indian sprinter. Arjuna awardee. Ktin (talk) 20:51, 11 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support. Not seeing a reason not to. The biography is well-referenced, and has been updated with the news of subject's death, which has been reported in the major oriental outlets (e.g., [15]). MBlaze Lightning (talk) 12:06, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted. --PFHLai (talk) 00:32, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. I have never heard of him and not important enough for the global wikipedia news page, therefore oppose. Evan224 (talk) 00:46, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD. 65.94.215.11 (talk) 02:39, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Tell me you don't know the point of Wikipedia's ITN without telling me you don't know the point of Wikipedia's ITN. Tube·of·Light 03:17, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
okay i'm sorry i'm new to editing Evan224 (talk) 03:44, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry for being a bit snarky. I would suggest you go through Wikipedia's policies and rules (like Wikipedia:Policies and guidelines, and for ITN specifically, Wikipedia:In the news. Tube·of·Light 05:22, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Artemis 1 return

Consensus not to post, looking forward to Artemis 2 and 3, where we are likely to post several updates :) --Tone 16:50, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Artemis 1 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Orion capsule of NASA's Artemis 1 unmanned lunar orbit mission successfully splashes down on Earth. (Post)
News source(s): CNN
Credits:

Article updated
Nominator's comments: We did post Artemis 1's launch but as per ITNR, the arrival of a craft that includes lunar orbits and beyond are also considered. This is part of a series of NASA missions to get us back onto the Moon. Currently one section has an orange tag and needs fixing. Masem (t) 18:17, 11 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support on significance, oppose on quality There is an update tag. Arrival of a craft that includes lunar orbits and beyond is significant per ITNR. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 00:02, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Already blurbed, and I don't think the return of a capsule to Earth counts as arrival of a spacecraft under the specific wording of the ITN/R entry: "Arrival of spacecraft (to lunar orbit and beyond) at their destinations". DarkSide830 (talk) 00:39, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - this was entirely expected as part of the mission; maybe it should have been ongoing? I'm all in favour of blurbing the launches of the mission - and even of Artemis 3 a second time if they do step onto the moon as planned. But the landings seem overkill to me. Nfitz (talk) 03:02, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    The method of re-entry was an unknown and necessary to support future Artemis missions. Masem (t) 05:04, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – I have to agree that this arrival isn't particularly worth blurbing. We blurbed the launch 25 days ago, and this unmanned test does not compare to the human missions planned for the coming years. I might be willing to blurb the human missions twice in this manner, but currently we don't even really know if humans would've survived this re-entry (at least, the Wikipedia article doesn't go into detail on how well this went). ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 08:19, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • For the record, I don't think this qualifies as ITNR. "Arrival of spacecraft (to lunar orbit and beyond) at their destinations" to me mean its arrival around the Moon, not its subsequent returns to Earth. -- KTC (talk) 11:01, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • This isn't ITNR. The Moon was the destination, not Earth. 331dot (talk) 11:03, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support - Artemis 1 was the first step of the human exploration of the Inner Solar System. A successful mission, with a safe return for Earth is enough to make ITN imo. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 12:05, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It went to a place humans have already gone. This smacks of WP:CRYSTAL-gazing. GenevieveDEon (talk) 12:55, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
That is true. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 13:59, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - Personally, I don't feel as if a return trip (atleast a return trip from the artemis 1) is worthy to get a second blurb. It's already gotten a blurb for launching so I don't believe that it needs to be blurbed again. Onegreatjoke (talk) 15:18, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

RD: Georgia Holt

Article: Georgia Holt (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Deadline Hollywood
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 2A01:4C8:C8B:D8F8:5D94:BBE1:7159:E773 (talk) 05:34, 11 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support. Checked the article and it appears that it does not have sourcing issues. Vida0007 (talk) 22:08, 11 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • The "Discography" section needs sources. Please add more REFs. --PFHLai (talk) 00:08, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

December 10

December 10, 2022 (2022-12-10) (Saturday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Politics and elections

Sports

2022 St Helier explosion

Proposed image
Article: 2022 St Helier explosion (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A housing block collapses after a suspected gas explosion on the island of Jersey killing at least seven people. (Post)
News source(s): ITV News The Guardian, Sky News, BBC
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Significant loss of life in a small community; national news coverage; some mystery over the cause - while all official and media sources are suspecting a gas leak the property was not connected to the gas main and no damage to pipes have been found. Curb Safe Charmer (talk) 10:24, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support – Nice work on the article, looks like a fine feature. ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 10:52, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment What is the image supposed to be? Curbon7 (talk) 12:28, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    @Curbon7: It is a photo taken from just along the road from the building that was destroyed. Unfortunately as there has been a strict police cordon in place since the explosion it has not been possible to get a better picture. There are pictures by the Government press office and by accredited media and some by drone operators but none that appear to be licenced under creative commons. I can see if I can take a better one with a long lens and upload to Commons. Curb Safe Charmer (talk) 12:37, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Paul Silas

Article: Paul Silas (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): AP
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Longtime NBA basketball player and head coach. Was a two-time NBA All-Star and won three NBA championships. —Bagumba (talk) 10:04, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support Seems adequately sourced. Kafoxe (talk) 15:07, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Dorothy Pitman Hughes

Article: Dorothy Pitman Hughes (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Associated Press, NBC News
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Feminist, child welfare advocate, and activist. Hughes died on December 1 but I think her death was announced more recently. Article is Start class. -SusanLesch (talk) 03:53, 11 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Question: Can an admin please tell me if Hughes is eligible for ITN? I will work on her article if she is. Her death appears to be announced by the funeral home the day after her burial which was December 9. Obituaries then appeared in the news. ITN rules say the announcement must be within 7 days. Thank you. -SusanLesch (talk) 14:57, 11 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    • First announcement + 7 days. This is fine. --PFHLai (talk) 14:01, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • support the second para of the “Early career” section is unsourced. I haven’t been able to see obituaries in English earlier than yesterday, so I think she may be suitable for inclusion in MP. _-_Alsor (talk) 16:17, 11 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Comment: Thank you, Alsor. Citations are done. Also I found an article in Rival Times saying her death wasn't announced until last night, so we're OK here. -SusanLesch (talk) 17:07, 11 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Article looks good. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 00:09, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support This article looks ready to be posted for RD. Vida0007 (talk) 12:00, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted. --PFHLai (talk) 14:01, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Ruth Madoc

Article: Ruth Madoc (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-63927507
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 PrecariousWorlds (talk) 12:30, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Indonesian new criminal code

Article: Indonesian Criminal Code (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The Indonesian parliament unanimously passes legislation which includes banning extramarital sex, cohabitation and discrediting the government. (Post)
News source(s): BBC, CNN, Guardian, Sky
Credits:

Article needs updating

Nominator's comments: Quite a significant event of human rights being removed, one of the causes of the 2019 riots finally making it to law. Widely reported. Protests in Jakarta recently too, Bali threatened as a top tourist destination Abcmaxx (talk) 10:33, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose and snow close no, not again. We already had this discussion before. _-_Alsor (talk) 11:37, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
yes and it was only closed because no article was nominated. Please stop abusing WP:SNOW. Abcmaxx (talk) 11:46, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support and snow unclose We've posted when a country №156 implemnented homosexual marriage not once, not thrice, but many, many times. We should post when countries move in the opposite direction as well 5.44.170.26 (talk) 11:40, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Significant news. I have corrected the article. Indonesian criminal procedure (id:Kitab Undang-Undang Hukum Acara Pidana) is not the law that bans extramarital sex and added other restrictions, it is a revision of id:Kitab Undang-Undang Hukum Pidana (Indonesian Criminal Code). Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 12:01, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Needs work For example, the lead of the nominated article says "By deviating as necessary from the Regulation of the President of the Republic of Indonesia dated 10 October 1945 No. 2, it stipulates that the criminal law regulations that are currently in effect are the Dutch criminal law regulations that existed on March 8, 1942". This is too bureaucratic to be clear but, in any case, doesn't seem to reflect the change. Andrew🐉(talk) 13:21, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose on quality but support on principle - this is a massive piece of legislation that removes rights we'd normally associate with a democratic country. --Masem (t) 14:03, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support once updated per Masem, now that we have an article. Obviously major enough news to warrant widespread coverage. 🌈WaltCip-(talk) 16:12, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Sheila1988 (talk) 16:19, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support on notability. Hrodvarsson (talk) 16:23, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, though Indonesia shouldn't be linked in the blurb, rather "Indonesian parliament" as a whole should link to People's Consultative Assembly. DecafPotato (talk) 17:31, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support in principle, oppose on quality. As a very significant piece of legislation in one of the world's most populous countries (definitely democratic backsliding...), I would support it. Unfortunately, the quality is not anywhere close to where in needs to be. Neutralitytalk 18:03, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - The blurb mentions extramarital sex (i.e. adultery) which is illegal in a decent amount of democratic countries, including some of the United States, and seemed to already be illegal in Indonesia prior to this. From the sources provided for the ITN nomination it's generally referred to as "sex outside of marriage" which sounds more like premarital sex to me - which would be an even more significant removal of rights. Lewis Hulbert (talk) 18:16, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose on quality, support once updated as per above. 125.59.140.165 (talk) 02:26, 11 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per Hrodvarsson. BilledMammal (talk) 23:15, 11 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. Bit of a question on targeting here - the target article, Indonesian Criminal Code states in it's infobox and later in the article that this legislation was repealed and replaced. Sources seem to be calling the new legislative package by this name as well, but it feels like there is a dissonance between what the article is suggesting and the sources used. DarkSide830 (talk) 00:46, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Indeed, the lead of the target article still says "...the criminal law regulations that are currently in effect are the Dutch criminal law regulations that existed on March 8, 1942." and so it's talking about the old code not the new one. Andrew🐉(talk) 08:47, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Supportper notability. Its a country with one of the largest populations with over 200 million people.Paradise Chronicle (talk) 21:53, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
'Per notability' isn't an argument. Of course it's notable. The question is, is it headline-worthy. (I'm neutral on it myself; I don't feel I understand the situation well enough.) But I see people saying things like 'Support - notable', and that's just deploying one of Wikipedia's favourite buzzwords in place of any actual argument. GenevieveDEon (talk) 23:33, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

December 9

December 9, 2022 (2022-12-09) (Friday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

International relations

Law and crime

Science and technology

Sports

All South Koreans to become younger

Article: East Asian age reckoning (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The government of South Korea announces plans to switch from the Korean age system to the system used by most other countries in the world. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ South Korea is standardising age calculations for official purposes from June 2023.
News source(s): The Guardian; BBC
Credits:

Nominator's comments: the population of an entire nation is about to become 1 or 2 years younger Abcmaxx (talk) 10:41, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose and snow close Why is “announces plans” ITNR-worthy? _-_Alsor (talk) 11:36, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
because it's the start of a long and arduous process, it will require slow and multiple changes in law to implement; this is the notable milestone. Also not snow. Abcmaxx (talk) 11:44, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
This is an enclyopedia, not a news journal, as has been said countless times. This is notorious, but for now this and nothing is the same. When it becomes a reality, then we will debate it. _-_Alsor (talk) 12:15, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Please stop calling for snow in early votes. You don't know at that point whether WP:SNOW is going to be relevant, and it just looks like a clumsy attempt to shut down discussion. GenevieveDEon (talk) 23:34, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I have literally only asked for it in two (2) discussions that I have participated in this week. If you think it's problematic, that's strictly subjective. _-_Alsor (talk) 00:31, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Very interesting fact and important event on national level. Kirill C1 (talk) 11:38, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - per Alsor. Good faIth nom PrecariousWorlds (talk) 12:37, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support The national assembly has just passed a relevant law so this seems a reasonable time to run the story. I've suggested an alt blurb. Andrew🐉(talk) 13:35, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Relatively minor administrative weirdness that brings in S. Korea with the rest of the world of how age is calculated. This is a DYK at best. --Masem (t) 13:54, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    • I'm not sure you can call the age of millions of people a minor thing. Abcmaxx (talk) 14:25, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
      Their physical age is not changing. Someone born in S. Korea on 1/1/1993 will still have been on this planet for 30 years come 1/1/2023. It is more what from an administrative side how they documented age. They are now bringing that outdated system in line with the rest of the world. Masem (t) 14:57, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • This will be quite a big deal in South Korea. Recall our rubric above, "Please do not oppose an item solely because the event is only relating to a single country...". Andrew🐉(talk) 15:05, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    It's an administrative change, nothing more. My argument has nothing to do with being related to a single country. Masem (t) 15:20, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose good faith nom. Unless I'm misreading this, nothing has actually happened outside of planning. We don't typically post plans. Beyond that, this sounds like something along the lines of Ruritania planning to switch from driving on the left side of the road, to the right. Mildly interesting but not exactly ITN material. -Ad Orientem (talk) 15:15, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose The change is bureaucratic filing, which is boring. Both in theory and practice: at least some Koreans have long been aware of the difference to the rest of the world and have counted their age as 0 until first birthday for years anyway, so I don't think it can sneak into ITN-worthy as having an effect on a whole population either (edit: and seeing as proposed change is just for bureaucratic purposes, I doubt the Korean population who do count +1 or +2 will bother changing their age in everyday life anyway). Kingsif (talk) 17:44, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose May be worth posting when it actually happens, but nothingburger at the moment. Curbon7 (talk) 18:38, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support when it actually happens. Quantum XYZ (chat) 07:28, 11 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Question: The article said "On 8 December 2022, the National Assembly passed a bill that would prohibit the usage of traditional ages on official documents effective June 2023." A national parliament passing a law is it "actually happening." Of course most laws need rules and regulations to work, but for this one, this is set and in stone and is actually happening. Howard the Duck (talk) 23:45, 11 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. This is an administrative change, for all intents and purposes and for all we know may not even have an individual impact depending on how individual people feel about it. Encyclopedic, notable, DYK material. Not ITN worthy though. DarkSide830 (talk) 03:25, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support – The bill has passed, the change will be made. Feels to me like a major step in cultural standardization. Article looks good, so I'm all for blurbing this. ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 08:29, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Opposebut in my opinion it would be good fit for DYK.Paradise Chronicle (talk) 08:43, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Agreed PrecariousWorlds (talk) 12:53, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    I do think there's a misunderstanding at play on what DYK is; DYK is about featuring recently created/improved articles, while ITN is about featuring articles that have seen some expansion because of recent events. It often feels like "interesting news" is devalued in ITN because "we have a different section for that," but this perspective doesn't make sense to me. I do think interestingness (and especially a certain level of encyclopedia-ness) is a valuable thing to consider for ITN as well. This might also tie into us not being a news ticker. I recognize this might be a larger discussion for the talk page, but I hope I could convince some people to reconsider this item. ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 13:23, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - This is administrivia. I opposed the 'new SI prefixes' nomination, and the 'no more leap seconds' one, and I oppose this too. Technical changes in how something is measured are not headline news. GenevieveDEon (talk) 12:57, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Question - Would this group of ITN users also have opposed Decimal Day?--🌈WaltCip-(talk) 19:20, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Can't speak for anyone else, but I probably would have. -Ad Orientem (talk) 19:52, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I absolutely would have opposed that, yes, and also Dagen H.GenevieveDEon (talk) 23:31, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Decimalization of British currency was a massive change in the day-to-day experience of Britons, and I 100% would've supported such a news story. ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 09:06, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, but the physical worth of their money hasn't changed. It's only how they calculate money from the administrative side. Still, you supported this current nom as well, so it makes sense for you to have also supported Decimal Day. 🌈WaltCip-(talk) 13:43, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Honestly, it probably fits better in "Did you know" then ITN. It's an interesting fact, for sure, which makes it great for that section, but not ITN worthy. TheBlueSkyClub (talk) 21:34, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Grant Wahl

Article: Grant Wahl (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NYTimes, The Hill
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: No major sourcing problems, more info might surface on circumstances of his death Mooonswimmer 02:29, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose for now some CN tags needs to be resolved first. INeedSupport 😷 04:10, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Did a quick cleanup of the prose issues and swapped out some sources for better versions. I think it's good to go in its current state, but obviously can be further improved (likely with longer obituaries yet to be published). Wahl is probably the most prominent soccer journalist in the United States, so this is a total shock. SounderBruce 05:48, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Article has been greatly improved. Honestly quite unnerving news. Kafoxe (talk) 06:00, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Article is good. Vida0007 (talk) 08:56, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb Looks like a Khahoggi situation here. His brother has made a statement that Grant was assassinated which isn't surprising to me at all. Arab oil monarchies kill another critic of theirs and the US'll let it slide once again --5.44.170.26 (talk) 09:41, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Please drop the conspiratorial nonsense. There is no evidence for such a claim. Nor for a blurb either. HiLo48 (talk) 11:14, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted. --PFHLai (talk) 13:09, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Kudos to all who worked on this. It looks way better than when I last saw it. – Muboshgu (talk) 15:40, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Jovit Baldivino

Article: Jovit Baldivino (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CNN Philippines, ABS-CBN News, Philstar
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Article has improved since I last visited it, but still has some work to do (especially in the discography, filmography and awards sections). Vida0007 (talk) 21:22, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support, Article looks good. Alex-h (talk) 16:38, 11 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose There are still uncited sections. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 00:11, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • The tables following the prose are largely unsourced. Please add more REFs. --PFHLai (talk) 03:50, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • I have already fixed the sources for the tables. As for the awards section, I think the GMMSF award was his only award that he received during his lifetime. Vida0007 (talk) 11:56, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Does winning Pilipinas Got Talent count as winning an award? Perhaps winning the GMMSF award should be mentioned in the prose? --PFHLai (talk) 12:29, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Ruth Madoc

Article: Ruth Madoc (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC News, WalesOnline, GH Gossip
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Captain Wacky HJS (talk) 12:30, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

December 8

December 8, 2022 (2022-12-08) (Thursday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Business and economy

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

(Posted) The Game Awards

Articles: The Game Awards 2022 (talk · history · tag) and Elden Ring (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In video games, Elden Ring wins Game of the Year at The Game Awards. (Post)
News source(s): Washington Post, Los Angeles Times, Variety, BBC, Toronto Star, The Guardian
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Recent discussion on ITN talk page showed this wasn't yet considered ITN but needed more nominations as to judge that. Awards show just finished so some of the reception to the show itself are yet unknown. Masem (t) 04:11, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support - Per Rhain. At this point, the Game Awards is more notable than the Oscars, pulling in way more viewers. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 10:14, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support - The Game Awards were posted last year, why not post it again? Hungry403 (talk) 01:51, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Question Should we mention the whole Bill Clinton thing? I mean, it was pretty unique, and I believe the Oscars debacle when they announced the wrong movie first was also mentioned on this page back when it happened a few years ago. 5.44.170.26 (talk) 04:15, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

No, the guy was arrested as a show disruptor. "Nothing to see here" Masem (t) 04:20, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Nothing to see here sounds like execatly the type of censorship Wikipedia should steer to avoid tbh 5.44.170.26 (talk) 04:37, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Do we blurb about streakers in a World Cup Final? NorthernFalcon (talk) 05:31, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I believe we also decided against mentioning the Will Smith slap in the Oscar blurb. In general it doesn't seem to be entirely proper to bring up short-term disturbances in these sorts of events. ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 07:38, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Well, there really is nothing to see here. And since you've !voted to oppose it anyway, your question of covering it is outright moot. 🌈WaltCip-(talk) 14:00, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
ACtually if you read my opposing vote the question is not moot at all, but since most people just push his or her agenda (in this case - the gamers agenda), I see no one actually takes into the consideration or really even reads each other comments, so your comment here is truly moot. 5.44.170.26 (talk) 03:35, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Your insinuation (and Andrew's) that there is an agenda being pushed in this nomination is bad faith and disruptive. 🌈WaltCip-(talk) 17:58, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose — Good faith nomination, but the Game Awards is not a notable event on the likes of the Emmys or the Oscars. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 04:30, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Significant awards show that is certainly in the news. Kafoxe (talk) 05:09, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. I'd argue The Game Awards are far more notable than the Oscars and Emmys nowadays—far more viewers, at least. It was posted last year too, so there's precedent. – Rhain ☔ (he/him) 05:25, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support on principle We posted The Game Awards last year, and the event tends to get significant media coverage within 24 hours of the event. Given the event ended an hour ago, it's probably too soon to judge media coverage. NorthernFalcon (talk) 05:28, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment The Elden Ring article is mostly in good shape, but the Synopsis section is entirely unreferenced. That will need to be fixed before this can be posted. Shouldn't take too long to fix that. NorthernFalcon (talk) 07:14, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • It's pretty normal for plot sections to be completely uncited. I find it weird and uncomfortable as well, but it shouldn't be an issue for main page features at all. ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 07:35, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • WP:V is a core policy; even if it is weirdly normal to ignore it for plot summaries we should have higher standards for articles on the front page. BilledMammal (talk) 08:05, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • It's the policy against the manual of style, I suppose; see MOS:PLOTSOURCE. ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 08:20, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    In such circumstances WP:POLCON applies, which tells us that we follow the policy. BilledMammal (talk) 08:30, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    I don't know why there's a debate on this. There have been several TFAs from this year that have completely unsourced plot sections. MOS:VG allows for the plot to be sourced to the game itself if necessary. But if you want sources, there's possibly some that can be found for the convoluted thing. ‡ The Night Watch ω (talk) 13:32, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I just want to note that verifiable is not a synonym for inline citations; just because something doesn't have inline citations does not mean it is in conflict with WP:V. WP:MINREF, which re-states what is in WP:V, makes it clear that while some material must have inline citations, there are other ways that material is verifiable. --Jayron32 13:46, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It is standard practice across all fiction works that the plot summary is assumed to be sourcable to the work itself, as long as it is concise and only summarizes the work. Masem (t) 13:46, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support—major event in the industry, was posted last year, and recieved significant coverage. DecafPotato (talk) 06:17, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support – Both articles look well put-together. ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 07:35, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Minimal coverage in reliable sources with wide readership; almost all sources covering it are gaming-focused sources. BilledMammal (talk) 07:48, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I watched most of the thing and it was an embarrasing show, it's mostly an advertisement filled with trailers and straight up ads (that Grubhub ad) lol which take 90% of the time. Comparing it to the oscars is like comparing some youtube star wars/pop culture interviewing podcast to the Larry King or Charlie Rose's shows. 5.44.170.26 (talk) 08:06, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Edit Also the fact that this was posted last year is not an argument. It hadn't been posted before, shouldn't have been posted then and should not be posted now. The only real argument to notability that I can see here is the whole bill clinton/alt-right debacle. 5.44.170.26 (talk) 08:07, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Yeah I really don't get why this big advertisement TV show became the canonical game awards all of the sudden (rather than the much older and more respectable BAFTAs or GDC), and yet here we are... ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 08:16, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    I'd support a nomination for the BAFTA's next year (provided that the article meets quality requirements). NorthernFalcon (talk) 17:50, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Just because you don't personally like the show doesn't mean it isn't eligible for ITN. Honestly, the fact that we've posted it last year, and that the Game Awards drew in more viewers, makes it notable enough. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 10:17, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Take your strawman arguments off this website, please. If oscars were 80% trailers and advertisements for services like the Grubhub, I'd vote against them being posted as well. 5.44.170.26 (talk) 10:56, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    What I'm saying is that the event is being covered widely by reliable sources, and brought in more viewers than the Oscars. It shouldn't so quickly be discounted. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 12:10, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per WP:NOTPROMOTION. This seems to be a highly promotional trade show. There are lots of these for many products and there are even awards for the best advert. Commercial interests make these unreliable -- computer games magazines were notorious for biased reviews to protect their advertising revenue. Andrew🐉(talk) 09:16, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    The show itself, I would tend to agree that it is overly promotional, but the same could be said of the Oscars or Emmy ceremony (which are supported by ad breaks). That said, the awards themselves are ones selected by a large jury of industry members (akin to the voting members of the Academy for the Oscars), and what resulted from those awards is the focus here (as well as the focus in non-gaming sources covering it) Masem (t) 13:49, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Oscars and Emmy are awarded in film and music, which are performing arts and greatly impact everyday life. Video games have never reached that level of importance.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 13:55, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Video games have exceeded film in annual global revenues, and its estimated there will be 3 billion people playing video games in 2023. [16]. Video games are still "young" compared to film and music, but to claim they have no importance is severely missing the mark. Masem (t) 14:01, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    I don't deny that gaming is a rapidly growing industry, but its annual revenues don't make it more important than film or music. While video games such as Pac-Man, Super Mario, The Legend of Zelda, Grand Theft Auto and Pokémon Go have exerted significant cultural impact in different periods, it cannot be said for the industry as a whole, so it's better to wait and see how that trend progresses in a decade or two from now.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 14:18, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Coffee is the world's most popular drink with about 400 billion cups drunk annually. So, should we promote awards like Roaster of the year? And then do beer and wine too? Or consider cars as there's about 1.5 billion cars in the world now. So, should we do Car of the Year too? No, the main reason that we have editors here lobbying for videogames is that they are videogamers, right? See WP:FAN, WP:COI and WP:NPOV. Andrew🐉(talk) 17:30, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    You might also see WP:AGF. 🌈WaltCip-(talk) 17:33, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    If there's a better explanation then let's hear it. For comparison, consider the following annual awards which are also in the news this week:
  1. Person of the Year
  2. House of the Year
  3. Designer of the Year
  4. Model of the Year
  5. Family car of the Year
  6. Sports personality of the Year
  7. Word of the Year
  8. Album of the Year
  9. Barista of the Year
  10. School of the Year
Andrew🐉(talk) 14:20, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I suppose it's safe to assume you would also oppose hooks about the Oscars, Emmys, and Grammys? – Rhain ☔ (he/him) 15:50, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose mostly per Andrew. I don't get why these particular awards should be posted when there is a plethora of things with similar recognitions (maybe because we have a high-quality article?). And the fact that we posted it last year is not an argument for posting this year.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 10:09, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Article is of sufficient quality and news sources have covered it to a sufficient level to demonstrate significance. --Jayron32 13:05, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support - It's true that there is a sufficient amount of news coverage and that the article has been updated. But I just don't know if it "feels" significant.--🌈WaltCip-(talk) 14:01, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - this is a serious event, and hard to say it's not on a parse with athletic sporting events. That said though, the winning game should not be bolded. It's the event that's in the news, and per sporting examples such as the "... the Los Angeles Rams defeat the Cincinnati Bengals in the Super Bowl ...", we did not bold "Los Angeles Rams". Cheers  — Amakuru (talk) 14:08, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    In cases like the Booker Prize, we do bold the winner if the article on that winner is up to snuff. Same with things like the Nobels. There's no reason the team articles in competition games can't be bolded, but those articles are usually of subpar quality. Masem (t) 14:25, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support clearly notable and biggest awards for gaming. Shadow4dark (talk) 16:38, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per precedent last year; Add Game Awards to Recurring. DrewieStewie (talk) 17:15, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Video games do not have the same cultural relevance as film or sport. I'm disregarding any arguments about the format of the event (whether it runs ads has zero relevance for notability) or any arguments based on the false notion that this event received more attention than the Academy Awards. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 17:51, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose: the award is not significant and well-known enough to warrant ITN. --K.e.coffman (talk) 18:38, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support We posted the Game Awards winner for 2020 and 2021, and the article is in good shape, so I don't see why we should draw the line at this year. I find most of the arguments against posting it unconvincing, and that some of them, such as "video games are not as important as film", reeks of misplaced elitism. And I say this as someone who is mostly uninterested in video games. Mount Patagonia (talk) 18:42, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Major award show for major industry, widely covered in RSes. I'm not seeing much reason why we would post the Emmys or Grammys and not this. Phediuk (talk) 18:43, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per Rhain and others. I also heavily dispute the argument that this event is not as notable as the Academy Awards, considering the 2021 Oscars received 16.6 million viewers according to Nielsen Media Research, while this event received 85 million livestreams in 2021. Although the former statistics may be conservative due to Nielsen Media primarily basing TV viewership on household estimates (And the latter possibly inflated because of unreliable streaming statistics) they appear to have audiences of relatively similar size. ‡ The Night Watch ω (talk) 20:09, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support a significant award in its industry, and has been covered in general RSes. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 03:25, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support The top recognitions of a 100-billion-plus dollar industry and its professional competitors.CoatCheck (talk) 04:17, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support If there is an Oscar or Emmy award for video games, it is the Game Awards, and a couple of the arguments seem to stem from video games being somehow inherently inferior to traditional media such as music or shows, of which I'd argue that video games have carved their slice in the pie of traditional media. TheBlueSkyClub (talk) 05:15, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Oscar and Emmy (technically, they are also trade shows as they are held by associations) winners don't exactly get New York Times headlines, either. TGA definitely holds more attention nowadays, and it should go into ITN/R soon. Juxlos (talk) 05:20, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose The Game Awards were established only in 2014, while video games have been popular in the 1990s at least. I'm unconvinced this award is mature enough, achieving the same prestige as Oscars or a comparable distinction in other field. Brandmeistertalk 10:38, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    There are other awards that are 20+ yr, such as the BAFTA Games or the Game Developers Choice Awards, but with exception of the BAFTA, those do not normally get mainstream coverage, and I don't think, as a video game editor, I'd want to try to justify those. The BAFTA Games are important but they also tend to be specific to UK game production, whereas the Game Awards is international. It should also be pointed out that the Game Awards are effectively the spiritual successor to Spike Video Game Awards which were established in 2003 with the same head guy Geoff Keighley, and which he had to change when Spike opted to drop them. Masem (t) 13:58, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    I'd never heard of Spike and find that it was "The First Network for Men" – the TV equivalent of a lad mag. One can understand why it might appeal to the Wikipedia demographic which is predominantly male, right? But, alas, it has now been rebranded as Paramount which I've heard of but never watch. If I want some Top Gear style programming, I find there's plenty on other channels. Andrew🐉(talk) 14:48, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per BilledMammal and Andrew Davidson. -Ad Orientem (talk) 14:53, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - industry award that isn't significant enough. I know that we could make the same argument about the Emmys and other awards, but we should be dialing back the number of recurring sports and award-related items, not expanding them. Neutralitytalk 18:05, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support We've posted this award in years past, and Elden Ring is listed as a good article. While I do share some skepticism of TGA, the video game industry is one of media's biggest and in my view should have once a year posting. Curbon7 (talk) 18:46, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Important award that deserves the main page. Would like to comment that this has been published on pt.wiki. Skyshifter talk 14:33, 11 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Has gotten coverage from several RSes. As others have said, it's basically the Oscars/ Emmy's of video game awards. — Gestrid (talk) 14:58, 11 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Posted previously. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Кирилл С1 (talk • contribs) 18:38, 11 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I understand that Wikipedia does not operate by majority vote, but we're currently at 23 supports and 10 opposes after three days of debating this blurb. NorthernFalcon (talk) 19:18, 11 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Oscar666kta420swag (talk) 02:02, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. It's a difficult one, but I do believe that this has significant coverage to warrant a blurb. echidnaLives - talk - edits 03:10, 12 December 2022 (UTC).[reply]
  • Posted Consensus has emerged in favor of posting this item. SpencerT•C 07:36, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I find it a bit strange to post a picture of GRRM when he was mostly responsible for world building, and I would argue he is not largely responsible for the success of Elden Ring. Just putting up his picture because he is a famous person does not sit right with me.Chaosquo (talk) 15:13, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm inclined to agree. He wasn't even at The Game Awards, either. I'd rather we switch it out for The Game Awards' logo or something like that. — Gestrid (talk) 15:19, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thirding this. Kafoxe (talk) 16:01, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting support but please change the picture of GRRM to someone/something else as mentioned above. YD407OTZ (talk) 16:05, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting support per Masem's arguments for posting, but agree that GRRM seems odd when he wasn't even there. It's somewhat understandable when we don't have photos of other members of the Elden Ring team to use (a photo of Miyazaki would make the most sense but we don't have any), so I'd either use the logo of the awards show or the box art of the game or something.  Vanilla  Wizard 💙 17:47, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Revert image Listen I like George as much as everyone else, but it was defintiely a bit of a rouge[Joke] decision, as the relevance is very slim and it was not discussed. Just revert the image back to Griner. Curbon7 (talk) 17:52, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose GRRM image as giving undue weight to GRRM's involvement over FromSoftware themselves; I personally prefer using the game's boxart instead. — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 18:58, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose GRRM image Awkward Western bias that is disingenuous to everyone else involved. — PerfectSoundWhatever (t; c) 21:30, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pull This shouldn’t have been posted. As User:Andrew Davidson stated, this is basically a promotional trade show. There’s a certain bias which many of the supporting editors seem to have. This year’s awards were not covered by The NY Times, the American paper of record. This lack of attention suggests that these are not comparable to the Oscars or Grammys. Thriley (talk) 22:31, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    And where does it say only the "American paper of record" is accepted for ITN? Seems the certain bias is merely toward US-centric sources. --2001:8003:1C20:8C00:BCF5:F4E1:D281:2A17 (talk) 23:45, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    It was covered by the Washington Post, LA Times, Variety, BBC, Toronto Star, and The Guardian — all of which are some pretty solid news sources. Why would we pull just because the NYT isn't on that already long list of sources?  Vanilla  Wizard 💙 04:31, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    For the record, it actually was covered by the New York Times last year, and it's linked on last year's ITN nomination. Seems they just chose not to this year, which doesn't really matter for our purposes since it's covered by several other WP:RSes. — Gestrid (talk) 04:44, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    I think it says a lot that they didn’t cover it this year. Would they decide to cover the Oscars one year and not the next? Thriley (talk) 05:47, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    I don't really think it says that much. As evidenced by this very ITN nomination, a lot of people still think of video games as being niche or an unimportant passtime compared to movies or TV shows despite how big the video game industry has become. Besides, as I said, whether the New York Times specifically covered this year's show doesn't really matter. What matters is if it was covered by any WP:RSes, and it was covered by quite a few of them. — Gestrid (talk) 06:10, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • At least take the photo down, either Griner or the would be King of Germany are far more important stories to merit a photo on the mainpage. nableezy - 05:18, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Indeed. The picture is outrageous. The caption asserts that Martin wrote the game but, so far as I can tell:
  1. He just provided some world-building (and here's what happened to it)
  2. He didn't write the story
  3. He didn't write the code
  4. He didn't win an award
  5. He didn't appear in the show
  6. He isn't mentioned in the bold article
See also photobombing. Andrew🐉(talk) 09:28, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Image swapped. I suggest further discussion take place at WP:ERRORS as more people will probably see the discussion there, than in a header prefixed with "(Posted)". Anarchyte (talk) 09:36, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
But they won't be able to find it again because WP:ERRORS doesn't maintain an archive of discussions. We need a good record of this debacle for the next time the hypefest is suggested for ITN/R again. Andrew🐉(talk) 09:58, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
As the image poster, I wouldn't have been semi-WP:BOLD if he wasn't already mentioned in Elden Ring's lead, as well as in some of the award's coverage. In hindsight, it was too much of a stretch in this case to have the image from the topmost blurb (WP:ITNPICT). —Bagumba (talk) 10:26, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: "In video games" should be trimmed, it's redundant. RAN1 (talk) 13:26, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Perhaps there was concern that one might incorrectly think board games? An alternative could be In video games,Video game Elden Ring wins Game of the Year..., unless one is worried that it reads as if a video game won a general game award.—Bagumba (talk) 13:56, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Brittney Griner and Merchant of Death exchange

Articles: Viktor Bout (talk · history · tag) and Brittney Griner (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ After being arrested in Russia for carrying cannabis oil, professional US basketball player Brittney Griner is released in a prisoner exchange with Russian arms dealer Viktor Bout. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ American basketball player Brittney Griner is released from Russian custody in a prisoner exchange with Russian arms dealer Viktor Bout.
Alternative blurb II: ​ American basketball player Brittney Griner and Russian arms dealer Viktor Bout are freed via a prisoner exchange.
News source(s): https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63905112
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Major prisoner exchange, in the news. Griner is one of the biggest players in women's basketball, and Viktor Bout is infamous as the Merchant of Death, and even inspired the film 'Lord of War'. Will probably need work on the articles, right now just a few paragraphs on either one. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 19:49, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@PrecariousWorlds, Jayron32, WaltCip, Curbon7, and Masem: Viktor Bout–Brittney Griner prisoner exchange has now been created. Cheers! BD2412 T 23:44, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks! PrecariousWorlds (talk) 10:22, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Both articles are in good shape, story is being covered by major news sources. Checks every box. --Jayron32 19:55, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per Jayron32. Not going to let this one get SNOWed out, as it's absolutely newsworthy. --🌈WaltCip-(talk) 20:25, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    SNOWed? PrecariousWorlds (talk) 20:28, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment We don't need sensationalist nicknames like "Merchant of Death" in the blurb. Hrodvarsson (talk) 20:27, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    It's the name that he's commonly referred to as, so I thought it was notable enough for inclusion PrecariousWorlds (talk) 20:29, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Just "arms dealer" is sufficient. We need to keep the blurbs neutrally worded. Masem (t) 20:49, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Agreed, I'll remove it from the blurb. Thanks for bringing this up PrecariousWorlds (talk) 20:53, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Blurb too intricate. Streamlining needed. Curbon7 (talk) 20:56, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Support ALT2 As the most clear-cut. Curbon7 (talk) 22:07, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support in general, but I would just say "US basketball player Brittney Griner is released from Russian custody in a prisoner exchange with Russian arms dealer Viktor Bout". BD2412 T 20:58, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    I think why she was arrested is valuable information PrecariousWorlds (talk) 20:59, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    People can read the details in her article. The exchange would be notable no matter what crime she had been convicted of. BD2412 T 21:07, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Should the deal be a separate article? As there is also discussion related to Whelan's non-release. --Masem (t) 21:03, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Per all the supports above. 𝕸𝖗 𝕽𝖊𝖆𝖉𝖎𝖓𝖌 𝕿𝖚𝖗𝖙𝖑𝖊 🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦 ☎️ 📄 21:25, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Previous blurb ideas have ignored the fact that they were both "released". I'd propose "American basketball player Brittney Griner and Russian arms dealer Viktor Bout are freed via a prisoner exchange." -- Kicking222 (talk) 21:45, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, but only if we include what they were each convicted for, and we place the emphasis on Bout as the more significant release, rather than the current emphasis on Griner. BilledMammal (talk) 22:28, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    There's no space or reason to include their convictions. We know that the punishment that Griner got was far worse than the crime, but when you include them, it clearly implicates the non-neutrality of their inclusion. Masem (t) 22:30, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    I would tend to disagree that Bout is the more significant release, after sitting in various prisons for 14 years. BD2412 T 22:33, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose The nomination does not list a specific article for this event and it's such a bizarre deal that we seem to need a good explanation. As I understand it, there are about a million people in jail in the US for cannabis offences and yet a special deal is done with Putin for this particular user!? And this involves letting go a major criminal known as the "Lord of Death". Is truth just stranger than fiction or is there more to this than it seems!? Anyway, as we are not a celebrity news ticker, we need an encyclopedic article to justify an entry here. Andrew🐉(talk) 22:41, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    @Andrew Davidson: Good point. Viktor Bout–Brittney Griner prisoner exchange created. BD2412 T 23:19, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    That was quick. But the article says nothing of Prince Mohammed bin Salman who, according to the BBC, is claiming the credit for brokering the deal, which took place in Abu Dhabi, just like a spy movie. The White House and Saudis don't seem to agree on the facts of the matter. Is the deal actually written down somewhere, like a treaty? It's a shame John Prados is dead (see below) as we need someone like him to ferret out the details. Andrew🐉(talk) 23:40, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    @Andrew Davidson: If you have sources handy for adding the Prince's claims, please feel free to do so. BD2412 T 23:50, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    The BBC report is the one news source listed in the nomination. It says, "According to a joint Saudi-UAE statement, Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman played a leading role in mediation efforts, along with UAE President Mohammed bin Zayed al-Nahyan. ... But the White House denied any mediation had been involved. "The only countries that negotiated this deal were the United States and Russia,"" So who do we believe and why? Andrew🐉(talk) 23:54, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    We have run lots of news stories where the subject (the two individuals here) rather than the "story itself" are the bold link. Like when we bold link the winners of awards when the award is ITN/R. That cannot be a serious reason to oppose. Kingsif (talk) 00:56, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    If there's an ITN/R contest such as the Boat Race or Nobel Prize then naturally we will highlight the winners. But there is usually a central article and it's that which is ITN/R. This story is not like that. There are lots of news stories involving pairs of celebrities –- Harry and Meghan are all over the popular media currently. Per WP:NOTNEWS, we require something more. Andrew🐉(talk) 08:44, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Well covered, but likely lacking any long-term impact. DarkSide830 (talk) 23:16, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Not all that big of a deal in the ordinary affairs of state. Might be notable enough for an article, but not for ITN. -Ad Orientem (talk) 23:19, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Major news covered in variety of sources -- as sources noted, the exchange is somewhat unprecedented in the imbalance of what they were each held for, which adds to notability. Articles are both detailed and up to Manual of Style standards. -- Rauisuchian (talk) 23:21, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Andrew and others. not really “major news” enough for ITN and w/ very international coverage. _-_Alsor (talk) 23:47, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Is this an EC covered topic or not, may i comment or can it be removed on a whim? Seems somewhat adjacent to a certain topic area that shall not be named but not quite? What is the deal here? 91.96.166.33 (talk) 23:59, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per various above, including Rauisuchian. I think keeping the blurb simple is best, prefer alt2 at the moment. Kingsif (talk) 00:56, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per reasons above. Krisgabwoosh (talk) 01:15, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support ALT1 or ALT2 (but linking Viktor Bout–Brittney Griner prisoner exchange). This has been a major story of the non-localized aspects of the Russo-Ukrainian War, and will likely go down as one of the most prominent prisoner exchanges in American history. As always, moral outrage over a hook's context should play no role in deciding whether the hook is posted. -- Tamzin[cetacean needed] (she|they|xe) 02:29, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Major event. I'm curious how this vote would have looked like if we were in the 1960-s and were discussing the Powers-Abel swap. I bet plenty of people would have voted against posting that as well lol lmao. 5.44.170.26 (talk) 08:09, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    The most recent case of this sort was Release of Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe and we didn't run it. The Death of Harry Dunn is also prominent in the news currently because the US spy, Anne Sacoolas, was sentenced yesterday. But she was careful not to come to the UK for the trial, for fear that she would be locked up. Agencies like the CIA and FSB like to protect their staff and they are able to make special deals for them. So it goes. Andrew🐉(talk) 09:52, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    I often like imagining what ITN would've looked like if it was around in the past. We probably would've blurbed Powers-Abel, and this is arguably just as notable PrecariousWorlds (talk) 10:31, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Powers and Abel were separately notable but the swap was the only connection between them and we don't seem to have an article about it. That swap also involved Frederic Pryor and so such hostages seem to be fungible assets -- pawns of the players of the Great Game. Andrew🐉(talk) 10:50, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    I remember noting in WP:HOWITNWORKS that the Watergate burglary would never have been covered on ITN/C, because at the time, its significance was totally underplayed. I imagine that a lot of ITN contributors at the time would have pointed to the White House press release calling it a "third-rate burglary". 🌈WaltCip-(talk) 13:51, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Yeah, that probably would've been the case haha PrecariousWorlds (talk) 14:56, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose: prisoner exchanges are fairly routine events in international diplomacy. --K.e.coffman (talk) 09:48, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    How many prisoner exchanges between nuclear-armed powers have occurred in the last 20 years? A handful. I would not describe that as "fairly routine." Neutralitytalk 05:05, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    We cover international diplomacy. We don't have an arbitrary nuclear armament criteria to determine nations as newsworthy. 85.240.221.153 (talk) 21:27, 11 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    The international diplomacy between the P5 (or P5+1, if you prefer) is more significant than diplomacy among non-P5 members. And international events involving one or more G20 members are usually more noteworthy, or newsworthy, than other international events. That's just the reality of the matter. Neutralitytalk 00:38, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose: Very interesting story, and certainly worth an article, but I don't see how this is ITN worthy. DecafPotato (talk) 15:39, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    If it does get posted though, I much prefer ALT2, though the exchange itself should be bolded. DecafPotato (talk) 17:59, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support original blurb with Griner, Bout, and prisoner exchange being WikiLinked. Major politicall/diplomatic prisoner swap; and its certainly a story of magnitude within the scope of ITN. DrewieStewie (talk) 17:09, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per DrewieStewie. Considering the state of US-Russia relations at the moment, this is a major prisoner swap, and as mentioned by DrewieStewie, the story is notable for ITN. TheBlueSkyClub (talk) 19:02, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per reasons stated by DrewieStewie, but preferably with the prisoner exchange article being the one in bold as mentioned by Tamzin. Was initially leaning on oppose but this has become a major news event, and is also quite noteworthy given the current circumstances. The proposed target articles (Griner, Bout, and the prisoner exchange article itself) are also in good shape and well-sourced. Vida0007 (talk) 19:40, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support alt 2. Major story, articles look in good shape. Pawnkingthree (talk) 01:46, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - major international event, fairly rare, articles in OK shape. Neutralitytalk 05:05, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted—Bagumba (talk) 06:44, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support as per above, support Alt. Blurb 2 Editor 5426387 (talk) 17:53, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting support Well-developed standalone article that explains the international importance of the event. SpencerT•C 05:49, 11 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-post oppose: The practice is practically a tradition. RAN1 (talk) 16:53, 11 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Perhaps, but you could say the same about the Super Bowl, for which we still post the results every time one happens. BD2412 T 21:43, 11 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm not enthusiastic about posting prisoner exchanges for people who find work in Russia under Putin. RAN1 (talk) 12:52, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    You know, RAN1, you don't make the news coverage of the story go away because you wish the news hadn't covered it. Reliable source evidence that this was a major event exists. --Jayron32 17:14, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    That's not what I said. This was very closely related to the war, and I don't think that fact merited an item. RAN1 (talk) 22:21, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Because it was related to the war, it probably did get a lot of news coverage, yes. One of the criteria we use to determine whether to post items is their news coverage. We can't and don't hide from that. 🌈WaltCip-(talk) 16:20, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Celine Dion diagnosed with Stiff-person syndrome

Good faith nomination but there is no chance that consensus will develop to post this. -Ad Orientem (talk) 13:22, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Celine Dion (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Celine Dion has been diagnosed with Stiff-person syndrome (Post)
News source(s): Instagram
Credits:

Article updated
 Count Iblis (talk) 12:21, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - We've gone through similar stuff in the past, and the article contains only one sentence about this. Quantum XYZ (chat) 12:23, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong oppose Not the purpose of ITN. Curbon7 (talk) 12:27, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong oppose. Lots of notable people get diagnosed with diseases all the time. ITN is not a celebrity news ticker. Modest Genius talk 12:33, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posting on MainPage negative news about a living person with no impact on the rest of the world? Please don't. --PFHLai (talk) 12:39, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - This is arguably someone's private medical information. It's scarcely our business at all, much less front-page news. And practically speaking, we have a very full Recent Deaths feed. Even if it was in any way desirable to post celebrities' diagnoses, the flood of them would be overwhelming. We're certainly not doing it as blurbs. GenevieveDEon (talk) 12:41, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • I don't expect a diagnosis of an illness would ever be ITN material, unless perhaps the entire act of diagnosing the illness was itself notable. ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 12:45, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Strong oppose - Per above. We aren't a celebrity news outlet, and this is someone's private medical inofrmation, as Genevieve pointed out. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 12:52, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose This is not being covered outside of celebrity news., if at all. The only source provided by the nom is an instagram post. Which is to say, there is no evidence that reliable sources consider this significant enough for us to post it. --Jayron32 13:20, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

First official execution connected to Mahsa Amini protests

Proposed image
Article: Execution of Mohsen Shekari (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Iranian officials execute Mohsen Shekari, carrying out their first official execution related to the ongoing Mahsa Amini protests. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Mohsen Shekari is executed in Iran for the crime of injuring a member of the Basij militia and "waging war against God" during the Mahsa Amini protests.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Iran carries out their first official execution of a person directly involved in the Mahsa Amini protests.
News source(s): BBC News, CNN, The New York Times, The Guardian
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Human rights groups have warned that Mohsen Shekari's execution will be the first of many; there are currently 12 people in Iran who could be executed imminently for their involvement in the Mahsa Amini protests, with at least 21 people facing potential death sentences, almost all for crimes similar to those Shekari was convicted of committing. The execution of Mohsen Shekari feels historically relevant for that reason, as well as the fact that it has generated significant controversy from at least seven prominent international officials (mostly from Europe), several human rights groups (including Amnesty International), and many Iranian citizens, including at least five Iranian celebrities. One commentator warned that Shekari's execution demonstrated that the Iranian government was at "the apogee of its toleration" and will start cracking down on protesters imminently. Afddiary (talk) 04:01, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support. No sourcing issues, and article is also well-written. Vida0007 (talk) 12:08, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - Good faith nomination, but I think this is already covered in ongoing. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 12:50, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

December 7

December 7, 2022 (2022-12-07) (Wednesday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Law and crime

Politics and elections

RD: Johnny Johnson (RAF officer)

Article: Johnny Johnson (RAF officer) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): UK Aviation News
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Last surviving member of the Dam Busters Raid. Mjroots (talk) 11:46, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Weak Oppose While Johnson was a member of a prolific air raid and deserves a mention in Wikipedia RDs owing to the fact that he's the last-surviving member, the article itself lacks many references in his 'Early life and education', 'Royal Air Force' and 'Post-military career' sections, if that can be fixed then I would deem this ready to post. UberLordMetagross (talk) 16:06, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Uh, even if he was not the last surviving member of that raid, he would deserve a mention because anyone who dies and has a Wikipedia article deserves a mention. --RockstoneSend me a message! 06:59, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not ready: Article has multiple citation needed tags. Flibirigit (talk) 23:13, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • At least eight {cn} tags remaining. Please add more REFs. --PFHLai (talk) 03:45, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) 2022 Germany coup d'état plot

Article: 2022 Germany coup d'état plot (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In Germany, 25 far-right terrorists are arrested in connection with a coup d'état plot led by Prince Heinrich XIII. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In Germany, 25 far-right terrorists are arrested in connection with a coup d'état plot led by aristocrat Heinrich Reuss.
Alternative blurb II: ​ In Germany, 25 far-right terrorists are arrested in connection with a coup d'état plot
Alternative blurb III: ​ In Germany, 25 members of a far-right group are arrested in connection with a coup d'état plot led by aristocrat Heinrich Reuss.
Alternative blurb IV: ​ In Germany, 25 members of a far-right group are arrested in connection with a coup d'état plot.
News source(s): NYT, BBC, CNN, NPR, CBS News, Reuters
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: Yet another bizarre coup d'état attempt. It was foiled before it got off the ground but it's getting significant coverage. Davey2116 (talk) 23:54, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support. What a nice day to live on Earth. RodRabelo7 (talk) 23:58, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose A group of delusional extremists were arrested. Notable enough for an article, but not significant enough for the front page - if the group had accomplished anything other than being arrested then it would be different, but they didn’t. BilledMammal (talk) 00:48, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    • I would argue that limiting ourselves only to disasters and successful coups would skew ITN but also penalise the efficiency of the German authorities for foiling the plot, and I would submit that this is not a good precedent. Abcmaxx (talk) 12:53, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
      We shouldn't put up this story just as a "thank you" to the German authorities though PrecariousWorlds (talk) 12:57, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
      • Agreed, however the chances of such a plot being discovered early on before a coup is mounted in e.g. Burkina Faso are much slimmer than in Germany; and vice-versa, Burkina Faso is much more likely to suffer a successful coup than Germany. We should acknowledge such sensibilities if we are to be balanced and global. Abcmaxx (talk) 15:56, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
        That is true PrecariousWorlds (talk) 19:58, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose good faith nom, per BilledMammal. Fringe wackos arrested for plot that had zero chance of succeeding. Yeah, it's WP:Notable. But not THAT notable. -Ad Orientem (talk) 00:50, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    I mean, the J6 insurrectionists had no chance of success either, but IIRC they were in this slot around a year ago... Maximilian775 (talk) 01:24, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    That was an actual attempted coup d'état, incited by a sitting POTUS that involved the storming of the US Capitol Building by thousands of insurrectionists. There is no comparison. -Ad Orientem (talk) 01:31, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Fair. To be clear, I mean to draw a distinction in degree, not in kind, and in no way want to minimize the severity of J6. Maximilian775 (talk) 01:57, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Except that they did almost succeed at capturing Mike Pence. --RockstoneSend me a message! 01:58, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support While nothing happened, this is what Jan 6 would have been for Germany. Add the mass law enforcement involvement to take in 20-some individuals and that makes is more than just stopping a wacko group. --Masem (t) 01:29, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    I feel like "would have been" is important here—it wasn't even attempted, so saying "if it did happen it would have been really big" is irrelevant—if it actually did happen it wouldn't be comparable.
    That's more of a devil's advocate thing though; I support posting this on ITN. DecafPotato (talk) 04:09, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Still, this was nowhere near as large as Jan 6, and even if they hadn't been caught, it's very likely this wouldn't have spiralled out of control like it did in the Capitol PrecariousWorlds (talk) 13:01, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per BilledMammal. Encyclopedicly relevant, but ultimately all that occurred was a number of arrests. Obviously using it as as hard and fast rule may not apply in all cases, but I think this event suggests an event that may have ended up somewhere how January 6th did, and while the established plot to create a coup is noteworthy, the failure of the plan to even begin makes it much less so. DarkSide830 (talk) 01:40, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    • Oppose per above Editor 5426387 (talk) 01:26, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support: an attempted coup d'état to overthrow a democratic government is significant. There was an armed faction so the intentions were supported by realistic means. Prefer option 2, or add "self-styled" before prince, since such have been abolished over 100 years ago. --K.e.coffman (talk) 02:27, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Planned, but not attempted. BilledMammal (talk) 03:42, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support Support. Clearly important but also unusual. Really shows everyone that our way of live, our liberal democracy itself is at stake here!!! 5.44.170.26 (talk) 03:11, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Neutral Some fringe nutcases planned a plot. Bad? Yes. Any chance in succeeding? Hell no. Comparisons here to J6 are flawed in one critical way: during J6, insurrectionists literally occupied Congress. However, it would be hypocritical of me to oppose this while also advocating for more blurbs to posted overall, so I will land in the neutral column. Curbon7 (talk) 03:56, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Abcmaxx's well-stated argument has convinced me to support this posting. While this was just a hairbrained plot, the scale and legitimacy of the plot (i.e. the involvement of a former MP, a hereditary prince, and several military figures) is significant. Curbon7 (talk) 12:26, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    I like ALT3 or ALT4, as the most streamlined. Curbon7 (talk) 22:05, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support: its significance is very clear. The related page is also in good shape. If it would be in other countries, it would be posted. Egeymi (talk) 07:26, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support: The incident significant enough and important for the main page. It was a serious plot and faced a strong intervention by the police. --Mhhossein talk 07:35, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support alt blurb Article is good to go and this has become a big headline in the continent. Not on the same level as the self-coup attempt in Peru, but still significant enough to be posted. Vida0007 (talk) 08:45, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    EDIT: Changing my vote from alt blurb 1 to support alt blurb 2 per WP:BLPCRIME as brought up by SoWhy below. Vida0007 (talk) 13:55, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Nowhere near as important or relevant as the self-coup in Peru. It was just news for one day. Vpab15 (talk) 09:03, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Not convinced that this plot is significant enough. As others have said - if this actually went ahead in any meaningful way I would have supported, but I'm looking at the big world news websites and not seeing this story reaching the front-page significance of, for example, the Peru item. Sam Walton (talk) 09:54, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    The Wall Street Journal put the German plot on its front page instead of the attempted coup in Peru. 2601:204:D400:7310:24F3:76FD:3681:C088 (talk) 19:55, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb without name. Largest such conspiracy in recent history. Covered in major news sources around the world. I would support a blurb without mentioning Mr. Reuss though per BLPCRIME. Regards SoWhy 10:43, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support these aren't just random people with ultra-extremist views, like National Action in the UK for example, with no hope of ever achieving their goals. They were royals, judiciary figures, MPs, people in the military and people linked to the Kremlin. They posed a real and credible threat. I also supported nominations a while back previous attempted assassinations (e.g. Argentina) and coup attempts (e.g. Guinea-Bissau) and they are significant in that they change the world we live in, both in real terms and perception. Abcmaxx (talk) 10:57, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Looking deeper into it, I'm shocked at just how many significant individuals were involved. That's enough to make this notable for ITN. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 20:02, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Significant political conspiracy - as much for the involvement of an AfD politician as for the titular prince. Front-page news here in the UK. GenevieveDEon (talk) 11:05, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. A group of plotters have been arrested before they took any actual action. That's it, no obvious wider implications. This seems notable enough to merit an article, but not significant enough for an ITN blurb. Modest Genius talk 11:47, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Suppory without indivual's name'. A notable event. Yes, fringe wierdos, but a substantial number of them with the apparent capability to do real damage. Article is in good shape. Individual shouldn't be named in blurb as per SoWhy. --12:26, 8 December 2022 (UTC) (Comment by LukeSurl, apologies for not signing correctly)
  • Support A good article, and a great example of how our collation of reliable sources results in a more clear and complete narrative that is truly useful to the reader. Significance is sufficient. 75.188.228.163 (talk) 12:34, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Added altblurb2 further to several comments opting to not have Reuss' name in the blurb. Abcmaxx (talk) 12:38, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, in large part because it's the best newly-written article for ITN I have seen in a long while. Goos example of the type of article that makes sense to feature. ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 12:43, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Leaning support with original blurb - Minor conspiracy, didn't amount to anything, but is making the news everywhere. The operation against the perpetrators is the largest in German history apparently, so I think it's enough to go up. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 12:56, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Article is in good shape, reliable news sources are covering the story at a level that grants this significance. Checks every box. --Jayron32 13:18, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - No, it wasn't the Beer Hall Putsch or the Kapp Putsch, but anytime this happens in a country where the government has been stable for decades, it's absolutely noteworthy.--🌈WaltCip-(talk) 13:26, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong oppose on the blurbs. All three blurbs label the 25 as terrorists, yet there is no mention. of a terrorist attack. Just think about the ones who have gone through real terror. In the sources provided, suspected members and supporters of a terrorist organization or terrorist network or of a terrorist threat is spoken about. Coup plot ok, terrorists no way.Paradise Chronicle (talk) 14:06, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    That's being overly pedantic, reliable sources describe the group as "terrorists" and a "terrorist network" and a "domestic terrorist organization" and similar language. [17], [18], [19], [20], [21]. One does not actually have to succeed to be a terrorist. It's a statement of intent, not of success. --Jayron32 15:32, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    In addition, this appears to be how law enforcement treated the scenario, giving them the necessary powers to an operation that big. Masem (t) 20:50, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    @Jayron32 All your sources report on Suspected, not actual terrorists. Maybe MOS:TERRORIST will help you. To make of a suspect a terrorist on the Wikipedia main page even before they were put on trial...of course I oppose this.Paradise Chronicle (talk) 23:23, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    @Paradise Chronicle: Would you support 1 of the blurbs (alt blurbs 3 & 4) that doesn't use the word terrorists? Blaylockjam10 (talk) 08:22, 11 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Yeah, to ALT3 and 4, I'd agree. Paradise Chronicle (talk) 10:42, 11 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose This was a crackpot plot with no chance of taking control of the German government. There is no evidence there was going to be military support from neighboring nations nor that there was broad support for it among the public. Thriley (talk) 15:56, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I will probably support if instead of "terrorists" it said "individuals" or some other neutral term. It's best not to assume anything about these individuals until the proceedings are over. Otherwise, I think the event deserves a mention in the news section.--Ideophagous (talk) 16:20, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Not this again. We're not a court of law. We're not trying these clowns. If RS call them terrorists, we can and should call them terrorists. We don't need to wait for a court, if we have a reasonable range of news media. GenevieveDEon (talk) 17:07, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
No, that's not how it works here, that's never how it has worked here. See WP:BLPCRIME. We never assume the RSes are right in this instance. 🌈WaltCip-(talk) 17:14, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Switching to Support of alt. blurb IV.-- Ideophagous (talk) 15:05, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • There's a significant difference between January 6 and this. For one, January 6 involved storming the US Capitol. I don't think we would have posted a plot that didn't involve destruction of property or loss of life. --RockstoneSend me a message! 01:11, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support inclusion as news event. Major reporting in numerous sources across the world. Germany's law enforcement treated it as a very severe and significant plot as is reported in international sources. Wiki article is detailed enough to link to on front page, could be expanded in detail. -- Rauisuchian (talk) 23:29, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong support per all above. _-_Alsor (talk) 00:32, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose -- for the same reasons that I would oppose posting a similar event that happened in the US. No, January 6 is not at all the same, since that actually was an armed mob attempting to overturn the results of an election, and resulted in destruction of property and deaths. --RockstoneSend me a message! 01:11, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose as this was simply a plot and not a failed attempt. Oriental Aristocrat (talk) 06:20, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Far more similar to the Gretchen Whitmer kidnapping plot than January 6. I don't think that it makes sense to post a plot that was in such an early stage. Teemu08 (talk) 14:31, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Major event that was a potential, elaborate threat to democracy. Absolutely similar to January 6 but without worry of US centricism. DrewieStewie (talk) 17:18, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    incomparable, extremely incomparable. _-_Alsor (talk) 22:27, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • How is this similar to January 6? No one was hurt, so this is much closer to the Whitmer kidnapping plot, which we didn't post. --21:57, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
  • and in this case, very far from being comparable as well. We are talking about a coup plot in Germany..... _-_Alsor (talk) 22:28, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Right, exactly. If something *actually* happened, then sure, it would be worthy of posting, but literally, nothing of note happened other than initial planning, it sounds like. Good job on Germany's police force for disrupting the plot, but that also means it's not notable enough to post here. --RockstoneSend me a message! 22:37, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think the Gretchen Whitmer kidnapping plot is a flawed comparison. That happened at a subnational level, which meant that it was less likely to be posted. This happened at a national level. I can’t really think of a comparable event in Wikipedia’s era, but a pre-Wikipedia event it seems more comparable to is the Gunpowder Plot. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 23:07, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Let's also add that unlike the US Germany is less centralised, did not have a controversial president with extreme views, certainly had very little civil unrest compared to the US since 1945, and gun violence and ownership is much much lower. Its politics is multi-party and much less adversarial than in US. Germany is also the birthplace of Nazism and started 2 worls wars, which brings about a while host of particular sensibilities. So apples and pears really. Abcmaxx (talk) 10:00, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - major international coverage of key event (modern Germany's largest-ever anti-extremist raid) in populous, economically important country. Sure, it's not January 6; but it's also not comparable to Whitmer kidnapping plot, which was at the sub-national level and involved fewer conspirators. Neutralitytalk 18:08, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, The event is notable for ITN Alex-h (talk) 16:51, 11 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Not only was there no actual coup attempt, but there's no evidence that any military or police unit or leader supported whatever this was....Even calling this a "coup plot" seems a bit of a stretch, as a "coup" involves members of the country's own military/security forces ousting the incumbent government. -2003:CA:870A:8978:2579:D51A:4EE7:E43B (talk) 22:16, 11 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
There is nothing in the definition of coup or coup d'etat that even mentions military, police, leader, etc. But also the plotters include a lot of ex-military, and also ex-police and ex-politicians, and even the former aristocracy. Nfitz (talk) 03:17, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Looking at the rank of so many of the members, and the seriousness and coverage on the issue, then it indeed should be posted. Nfitz (talk) 03:17, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted After nearly 5 days of discussion, there is consensus to post the item. SpencerT•C 07:32, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Interesting. If there is a consensus, there's certainly a very narrow one. I'm nonetheless enjoying that ITN this past month has been erring on the side of posting stories rather than not posting. 🌈WaltCip-(talk) 13:45, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) 2022 Peruvian self-coup d'état attempt

Proposed image
Article: 2022 Peruvian self-coup d'état attempt (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ President of Peru Pedro Castillo attempts to dissolve the Congress of Peru, resulting with his impeachment and detention (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ A constitutional crisis grips Peru.
Alternative blurb II: ​ President of Peru Pedro Castillo is impeached as president by the Congress of Peru after the Constitutional Court of Peru rejected his dissolution of congress.
Alternative blurb III: ​ Dina Boluarte is sworn in as President of Peru after Pedro Castillo attempts to dissolve the Congress of Peru, is impeached and detained
Alternative blurb IV: ​ Dina Boluarte is sworn in as the first female President of Peru after Pedro Castillo is impeached and arrested following his unsuccessful self-coup d'état.
Alternative blurb V: ​ After a failed attempt at dissolving Congress, Peruvian President Pedro Castillo is impeached and detained and Dina Boluarte is sworn in as the country's first female president.
News source(s): CNN, Reuters, The Wall Street Journal
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Very notable incident occurring; President Castillo of Peru dissolved Congress and the Constitutional Court of Peru ruled this as an attempted coup, so they ordered the military to remove him. This may need some clean up since it is developing and some branches of Peru's government may soon not exist. WMrapids (talk) 18:27, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support Peru politics going off the rails. Must be a day ending in Y This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 18:50, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Self coup, seems like a big deal. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:58, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait until article is improved This is more than the dissolution of Congress. According to Castillo's announcement, a Constituent Congress has been convened, the judiciary and the Public Ministry will be "reorganized", a curfew is imposed... a full-fledged self coup. I would wait for the article to be expanded further. _-_Alsor (talk) 19:03, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait. Seems a significant self coup, but the first reports were just two hours ago and the situation remains unclear. Give it some time for information to emerge and the article to catch up. Modest Genius talk 19:07, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment The impeachment vote in the Congress of the Republic of Peru has just passed with 101 in favor. --Vacant0 (talk) 19:08, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, though it is likely to be moved to a new title, given that this is part of a broader political crisis, the article is sufficient in length, depth, and level of referencing, and the topic is being covered by reliable sources. I have no problem posting this on the main page. No problem waiting a day or so for the article to stabilize a bit, but even in the state it is in, it's quite a good Wikipedia article already. --Jayron32 19:09, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment A lot has happened:
  • The military is now opposed to Castillo
  • Congress removed Castillo from office
  • The Vice President Dina Boluarte is set to take her oath of office in about an hour
  • Title of article was updated accordingly due to these events
  • Comment Added Castillo being impeached blurb. BastianMAT (talk) 19:30, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support alt blurb III - Crazy news, highly notable. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 23:02, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Actually change this to alt blurb V, III could be confused for saying Dina Boluarte was the one impeached and detained. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 23:05, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Whew, that was a lot...--WMrapids (talk) 19:11, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Wait Until whatever the heck is happening to be cleared up, then post the result. Curbon7 (talk) 19:14, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support obviously. I've added an alt blurb. -Ad Orientem (talk) 19:19, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait for further developments. This is a rapidly changing story as of this writing. Vida0007 (talk) 19:20, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Hence the alt blurb. -Ad Orientem (talk) 19:25, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Post-posting support for the current blurb (which is a modified version of alt blurb 5). Was going to change my stance after seeing the alternative blurbs but this event has already been posted a few hours ago. Nevertheless, I support this, as this is a major political event in Peru (and South America). Vida0007 (talk) 08:42, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Castillo has been arrested. _-_Alsor (talk) 19:24, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep waiting - We're not through with this yet.--🌈WaltCip-(talk) 19:58, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Castillo is arrested and impeached. Seems to be done.--WMrapids (talk) 20:06, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • In that case, oppose the current blurbs. The blurb should focus on the change of the head-of-state to Dina Boluarte, as this was not a successful coup.--🌈WaltCip-(talk) 20:41, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

oppose , and work on the blurb with something on the lines like Dina Boluarte takes office succeeding Castillo who attempted a coup...Paradise Chronicle (talk) 20:49, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment Alt blurb 3 is now up regarding Dina Boluarte becoming president. Also, "Dina Boluarte October 2022 (cropped).jpg" could possibly be used as well.--WMrapids (talk) 20:49, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb number IIIParadise Chronicle (talk) 20:51, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support but wait; considering how many unknowns exist right now, I am not a fan of any of those blurbs. We should know a lot more about this rapidly developing situation in the coming hours.--JohnHawkinsBois (talk) 21:29, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I know this has already happened, but I feel like we need two separate blurbs here, even if they relate to the same event. I think wrapping the ascension of Boluarte and the impeachment of Castillo are events that should be isolated into their own blurbs. DarkSide830 (talk) 21:31, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support ITN/R now, of course. I agree with DarkSide830 that this is a lot of detail to put into one blurb. Is there precedent for a two-sentence blurb? Davey2116 (talk) 22:09, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Qualifies under ITN/R and article covers in sufficient depth. I support blurb IV blurb V (Edited, prefer the newly added blurb since it reads chronologically). --Pithon314 (talk) 22:13, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support alt blurb 5 Article is in good shape. --Vacant0 (talk) 22:35, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support on significance (have not reviewed article quality). {{u|Sdkb}} talk 22:42, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support alt blurb 5 Significant development in the country's politics, definitely worth posting. --NoonIcarus (talk) 23:47, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, preferably with alt blurb V (or is that too long?). Quality is acceptable. Moscow Mule (talk) 23:51, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted (modified) Alt blurb 5. Removed the bit about Castillo being arrested as though referenced, at least one reliable source is saying it's unclear if that actually happened or not. -- KTC (talk) 23:59, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) 2022 Swiss Federal Council election

Article: 2022 Swiss Federal Council election (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Albert Rösti and Élisabeth Baume-Schneider are elected to the Swiss Federal Council, the government of Switzerland. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Albert Rösti and Élisabeth Baume-Schneider are elected to the Federal Council, Switzerland's collective head of government
Alternative blurb II: ​ Albert Rösti and Élisabeth Baume-Schneider, succeeding Ueli Maurer and Simonetta Sommaruga, are elected to the Federal Council, Switzerland's collective head of government
News source(s): Swissinfo
Credits:

Article updated
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: I'm interpreting this as an ITNR case of "change of head of state or government" because the 7-member Federal Council is the collective government and head of state of Switzerland. In practice, the election of new members is the politically significant and widely reported-on election, because incumbents are generally reelected until they resign, and the office of President of Switzerland is a strictly ceremonial office that rotates annually among the seven Councillors.  Sandstein 10:19, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support - Article is of good quality, change in government for a major power. Looks good. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 11:13, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
In this case, change in government = a Cabinet reshuffle. Joofjoof (talk) 11:30, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It's a bit more than an ordinary cabinet reshuffle in Switzerland though, as the cabinet effectively functions as the collective head of state. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 11:43, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Question if this is significant because incumbents are generally reelected and we have two new people, then shuoldnt the blurb include mention of who they are replacing and if they resigned vs lost re-election? QueensanditsCrazy (talk) 17:32, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Also, are these two new members giong to be immediately the (rotating) head of the 7? or will they take 'office' in 6 and then 7 years time? QueensanditsCrazy (talk) 17:33, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The two are part of the Federal Council after their election. The rotating head is elected each year and in a separate election from within the 7 Federal councilors. And the president is only the president of the Federal Council, not Switzerland. Maybe worded too simply. The presidency doesn't hold such a valor in Switzerland as in other countries. The Federal Council is more a consensus kind of Government.Paradise Chronicle (talk) 20:36, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • SupportParadise Chronicle (talk) 10:33, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose (1) The Federal Council is indirectly elected by the Swiss parliament, with each seat already reserved for a political party. (2) This is only a by-election for 2 seats. Joofjoof (talk) 10:55, 7 December 2022 (UTC) Weak support in light of responses. Still, I agree with Modest Genius' comment below - partial Council elections should not be considered ITNR. Joofjoof (talk) 00:25, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • ITNR does not require a popular election. (Many heads of state or government are not, in fact, elected in any meaningful sense, but merely seize power.). As explained above, in the Swiss system, the by-elections are the elections that are of political significance, not the general elections, counterintuitively. Sandstein 11:02, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    To clarify, the issue is that the Federal Council is equivalent to the government Cabinet in other countries. Have we previously posted when new ministers are confirmed? Joofjoof (talk) 11:28, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    The Swiss system is unique in that the Cabinet (the seven ministers) are also collectively the head of government and head of state; they are not subordinate to another officeholder such as a prime minister or president. Sandstein 12:22, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Except it isn't really. The Federal Council serves as a small-size cabinet (only 7 members), but it is also a collegial presidency (decisions are taken by consensus or internal vote, not by a prime-minister). Furthermore, once elected, members cannot be removed until the end of their four-year term and are usually re-elected until they step down; this is more akin to heads of states than ministers. Finally, this is the first change in composition since 2018 (in four years), meanwhile the UK saw 4 prime ministers in that time range which (I suppose) all had their blurb. Julio974◆ (Talk-Contribs) 12:24, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Either the change of the presidency or the by-elections should qualify. Politically relevant are the by-elections. Paradise Chronicle (talk) 11:36, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I would argue that 1. Many heads of governments are elected by the legislature as well (British PM or German chancellor for example), and 2. It's still the first seat change since 2018 (four years), and here two seats were changed at the same time (more than average). The last regular elections in 2019 actually saw all councillors re-elected handily (with only a minor challenge against Cassis), and it might happen again in the next one in 2023, so this could be the largest change in the executive of Switzerland in maybe five or six years. I'd argue it counts. Julio974◆ (Talk-Contribs) 12:19, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Article is sufficient quality, news sources covered the event sufficiently. --Jayron32 13:25, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak support. Firstly, I don't think this qualifies as ITNR. Switzerland is (almost?) unique in having a collective head of government; ITNR would therefore apply to replacement of the entire council (which I appreciate doesn't happen in practice). It seems silly to apply ITNR to every change to the council membership. This issue only applies to whether the event is ITNR though, we can still consider it as a non-recurring event.
    Only two of the seven members were affected, the replacements had to be from the same parties, and there was no direct involvement by voters. So this isn't a very competitive or popular election. But I take the point that it's equivalent to the indirect elections of other heads of government. Whether replacement of 2/7ths of the head of government is sufficiently notable is a borderline judgement call. At normal times I might have said 'no', but we're in need of new blurbs - the most recent is a week old. The article is merely adequate, not great - it could do with some more prose on the results/reactions, and on the policies of the candidates. But it does meet our minimum requirements. I've added an altblurb. Modest Genius talk 14:41, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    I should note that being listed on ITNR is not specifically a requirement to post any item. I know this is claimed as an ITNR posting, but we're also allowed to post things just on the merits of the specific nomination, without asking for pre-approval from ITNR. --Jayron32 19:20, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    That is exactly the point I made. We can still consider this as a stand-alone nomination. Modest Genius talk 20:04, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Article is good enough. We posted the UK prime minister changes, and I think this is of a similar significance. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 17:10, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support This is good to go. Vida0007 (talk) 19:24, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose blurb per my questions above, perhaps a rewrite to "Rosti and Schneider are elected to the SFC, replacing X and Y who (resigned/stepped down/lost re-election)" or something like that - but content is probably fine QueensanditsCrazy (talk) 19:45, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Needs work Copy-editing is required. For example, the first sentence has the ungrammatical “were be held”. Andrew🐉(talk) 20:03, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    @Andrew Davidson I am a bit surprised by this comment, where exactly do you see were be held? What word count? Paradise Chronicle (talk) 20:30, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    It's the very first sentence, as I said. "By-elections to the Swiss Federal Council were be held..."
    The second paragraph has the sort of tense errors which are typical of articles started in anticipation of an event, "only SVP candidates are standing for Maurer's seat and only SP candidates stand for Sommaruga's"
    I could go on but the point is that the article needs careful, line-by-line proof-reading.
    Andrew🐉(talk) 21:21, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Ahh you meant the article and not the blurb...Thanks for the explanation. Paradise Chronicle (talk) 21:36, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - and to be clear, I would support a similar blurb for other partial changes of collective head of state or government. GenevieveDEon (talk) 11:09, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: I am really glad to see the page nominated for ITN! I wrote some of it in a rush and I apologize for the mistakes, I re-read the page (@Andrew Davidson:) and corrected them as well as added even more information as well as aftermath, reactions, and added more journalistic sources; the article still needs information on the attribution of federal departments (which will happen in the next few hours as I'm posting this). I think this page would also greatly benefit from being re-read and sourced by a german-speaking wikipedian. Julio974◆ (Talk-Contribs) 12:04, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hold until further improvements can be made to the article's quality. Cheers. WimePocy 16:55, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    That's a very vague !vote. What improvements would you like to see? Modest Genius talk 17:21, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support As a national government election. DrewieStewie (talk) 17:19, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support It's ITNR and the article looks good enough. _-_Alsor (talk) 23:12, 11 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted. SpencerT•C 07:25, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

China Covid Policy Changes

Nominator's comments: This is a significant change in the largest country's policies and should replace the current blurb about protests, as it is the implied result Pacific26 (talk) 08:16, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose The nominated article is orange-tagged, has no relevant update in its long lead and is not linked in the proposed new blurb. Maybe the existing blurb should be updated with this new development but this proposal needs work. Andrew🐉(talk) 09:15, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Leaning support - The protests are basically over, so having the resolution of the ordeal put up might be for the best. But, as Andrew said, article needs work. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 10:10, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Not to suggest that everyone in China is happy with this outcome, and that there won't be protests in the future, but generally, it looks as if this is the end of this specific chapter of Chinese politics. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 10:16, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Andrew above. Article quality is not good enough for main page. If someone wants this posted, they are going to need to do some work to bring it up to minimum standards. --Jayron32 13:26, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose unless a better target article can be found. GenevieveDEon (talk) 11:10, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Genevieve. Article is well-sourced but only a small sub-section of it (the "2022 outbreak" one) talks about the most recent COVID policy changes; another target article (most likely the 2022 COVID-19 protests in China) would be better. Vida0007 (talk) 13:50, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

December 6

December 6, 2022 (2022-12-06) (Tuesday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

(Posted) RD: Don Luce (activist)

Article: Don Luce (activist) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NY Times, Wash Post
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Major figure in Vietnam war activism. Obit published 6 December. Thriley (talk) 07:48, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment Looks ready to post. Thriley (talk) 04:34, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted to RD Brief but meets minimum standards. SpencerT•C 07:27, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Jan-Åke Edvinsson

Article: Jan-Åke Edvinsson (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): International Ice Hockey Federation
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Recent death of former general secretary of the International Ice Hockey Federation. Flibirigit (talk) 16:56, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment Can this article still be expanded? It has citations, though there are only six of them, and five of those come from the same site (the International Ice Hockey Federation's site). Vida0007 (talk) 19:49, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Likely could be expanded by searching for sources in Swedish. That will take a day or two to do. Flibirigit (talk) 01:32, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Article expanded. I reached the point of diminishing returns with online web searches. Flibirigit (talk) 14:47, 11 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Long enough to qualify with 500+ words of prose. Formatting looks fine. Footnotes can be found in expected spots. Earwig has little to complain about. This wikibio looks READY for RD to me. --PFHLai (talk) 19:31, 11 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted Stephen 00:17, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Boeing 747

Proposed image
Article: Boeing 747 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ The final Boeing 747 (prototype pictured) to be built rolls off the assembly line at Everett, Washington, United States. (Post)
News source(s): Yahoo News, CNN
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: After 52 years in production, there will be no more 747s built. The end of an era. Mjroots (talk) 10:36, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment: I know I’m an aviation geek myself but I’ll stay neutral for now, at least until someone gives a more compelling argument on either side. To be honest if we post an ITN for this, it may also set a precedent for end of production for other less prominent things and well, just create a butterfly effect. But also given how iconic the 747 is in the world of aviation for the past 50 years it also seems worthy to post an ITN too. SBS6577P (talk) 13:01, 7 December 2022 (UTC) [reply]
Changing my opinion to support per arguments by 331dot, KTC, SounderBruce etc. SBS6577P (talk) 10:38, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, article is FA quality, most major news sources are covering the story. Checks every box. Would be proud to direct readers to this article. --Jayron32 13:21, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose This isn't like Boeing's last plane ever, just of this model type. Not a significant news topic. --Masem (t) 13:27, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    "This model type" is arguably the most well-known and iconic passenger aircraft ever made. Tube·of·Light 08:41, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - seeing global coverage and notable within the relevant field. I don't think this should set a precedent for posting less prominent production ends, but products around this level of popularity should see some recognition. As an aside, I think it should use a more modern photograph than one from 1980. For example, File:Qantas Boeing 747-438ER VH-OEI at LAX.jpg is from 2010. Quite a few to choose from in this category. Anarchyte (talk) 13:40, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    • @Anarchyte: the choice of image was deliberately made to avoid favouring any one airline over all the others. Mjroots (talk) 16:05, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support – Feels good to feature an FA. I would like a bit more writing about how and why the 747 ended production, but this is good as it stands too. Article seems recently updated in general, with data for last month as well :) ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 14:49, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Masem. Not relevant news. _-_Alsor (talk) 15:00, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Masem. Not that significant in the grand scheme of things.  — Amakuru (talk) 15:06, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    oppose per above Editor 5426387 (talk) 16:53, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Is most news significant in the grand scheme of things? Does the earthquake in West Java have any lasting impact beyond being a tragedy, for example? 🌈WaltCip-(talk) 18:09, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    One of the issues here is that this is a commercial entity, and thus giving Boeing that type of focus does feel a bit promotional, which we should strive to avoid. As noted by OP, this would suggest other major EOL of commercial productions should be included. This is different from saying, for example, NASA launching the last shuttle mission, as that is not a commercial element. Masem (t) 20:48, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - Good faith nom, but not that significant. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 17:38, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - If this is not posted, then it gives further proof to the principle that it doesn't matter how excellent or well-updated an article is; if it doesn't meet the arbitrary significance threshold, it will never get posted to ITN. So I don't know why people ever thought that article quality was somehow a mitigating factor that would allow less significant items to be posted.--🌈WaltCip-(talk) 18:08, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Second this. 331dot (talk) 20:54, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. End of a long period of production of an iconic aircraft. ITN is getting to the point where nothing is being posted and that's sad to see. 331dot (talk) 20:56, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Per 331dot.--Pithon314 (talk) 22:26, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb, no comment on article quality. The 747 is a aircraft design that's iconic, extremely recognisable worldwide, and the end of something that's part of the airline industry for a very long time. No, we shouldn't post every EOL products, but I think this one is significant enough to be an exception. -- KTC (talk) 00:09, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support one of the most iconic airplanes in the world. Article is an FA. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 01:23, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose it's one product of one company. If we post this, we should also post e.g. Microsoft discontinuing Windows 7. Banedon (talk) 03:17, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Windows 7 didn't last for 50 years. HiLo48 (talk) 03:37, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Did we blurb the discontinuation of Windows XP? It would've definitely qualified for a blurb in my eyes, but I recognize that the end-of-support for that was a rather gradual process. I don't know if it had as clear a (symbolic) end as the discontinuation of a physical product like the 747. ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 10:21, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
We didn't post end of support for Windows XP [22], and neither did we post the end of support for Windows 7 [23]. Banedon (talk) 12:25, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Windows is still produced, just not Windows 7. It's like the difference between the first version of the 747 and the last one(the 747-8). 331dot (talk) 10:26, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
You could equally argue that Boeing planes are still being produced, it's just not the 747. Banedon (talk) 12:25, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Microsoft produces other software too, that's not the point. 331dot (talk) 14:57, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Chrisclear Who is advertising anything? The aircraft is no longer being produced. No one here is saying "Buy a 747 now before they're gone!". They're already gone. That's the whole point here. Are you saying that any mention of any sort of product is barred from ITN? 331dot (talk) 10:24, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The company that makes the 747 plane is the company being advertised/promoted. As noted by others, the company is still making planes, just not this particular model. Just as a change in Windows version should not be posted to ITN, a change in plane model should also not be posted. Chrisclear (talk) 12:41, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Chrisclear I don't see where it says "buy Boeing planes" or "Boeing is a great company" in the blurb, maybe I missed it. This isn't just some random model of plane, which is why it's hit the news. 331dot (talk) 14:59, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
So simply mentioning a company is now advertising? The Kip (talk) 16:08, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia does advertise. We routinely use sponsored, commercial names for sports venues rather than the official, usually geographic names, even though the latter would be far more useful to readers. HiLo48 (talk) 10:28, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
That's an issue to discuss with the venue, not us. WP:COMMONNAME as well. In many places(mostly the US I guess) the sponsored name is the official name. Mentioning a name is not advertising any more than mentioning "HiLo48" advertises HiLo48. In any event, that's a side issue compared to mentioning a product, which is apparently barred from ITN now. 331dot (talk) 10:34, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I'm obviously referring to places where there is an official name that mentions a location, and a sponsored one that doesn't. This is quite common around the world. Wikipedia inevitably uses the unhelpful, sponsored name. HiLo48 (talk) 23:31, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
You can't advertise something that will no longer be produced. Completely fallacious argument. 🌈WaltCip-(talk) 13:30, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. End of an era as mentioned above. Regards SoWhy 10:37, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - No wider repercussions - Boeing is still in business. GenevieveDEon (talk) 11:12, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - The end of an era with not-insignificant implications for the future, in a world where 43.5% of commercial airliners are Boeing aircraft. Not incidentally, it means we can link to a featured article on the main page. What's not to like about that?--🌈WaltCip-(talk) 13:29, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Neutral Truly the end of an era but also agree with GenevieveDEon. This would have been more ITN worthy if it is the final flight of the 747, but it isn't. Personally, I can see this being more qualified for the DYK page. Vida0007 (talk) 13:45, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    That's so far in the future jet fuel might be all-biofuel by then. The 747 will probably fly for decades and maybe fly last for a 3rd world airline poorer than the airlines who buy new planes (even some of the 3rd world airline planes were bought from Boeing or Airbus). Late stage jetliner model is anticlimactic, they try not to fly passengers with them even in countries where life is cheap. Maybe sometimes they have no other choice than to do it occasionally for logistics reasons but if it's cargo at least only 2-3 people will die if they crash and if it's a charter flight at least the passengers knew what they were getting into and traded an older plane for cheap tickets. Eventually even that has to stop cause after a certain number of pressurizations and depressurizations the plane can burst at altitude. This happened in the 80s I think (short Hawaii to Hawaii flights all day for many years). Many feet of ceiling just disappeared, hundreds of miles an hour sea level-equivalent wind, instant fog, a flight attendant blew out and fell miles to their death. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 22:46, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Supportwhile we have a lack of ITN suggestions... Its a beautiful image.Paradise Chronicle (talk) 15:28, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support End of an era. One of the most famous aircraft of all time, and certainly one of the most important. The Kip (talk) 16:08, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support End of the line for an iconic aircraft and the chance to showcase an FA quality article.Pawnkingthree (talk) 19:56, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support It’s the end of production for an incredibly influential airplane. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 21:26, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support Per Blaylockjam10. TomcatEnthusiast1986 (talk) 04:44, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted. Black Kite (talk) 12:41, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment How is this important news? It's just novel trivia that doesn't deserve front page news. Jtnav04 (talk) 14:09, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Besides being one of the most influential aircraft of all time, past consensus has been that high article quality can bolster the posting merit of a comparatively "less important" event. The Kip (talk) 15:13, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Even more importantly, ITN is not "front page news" and is not a news feed. It serves to highlight quality articles about recent events which are covered by news sources. This ticks every box in that regard. In Wikipedia, we follow sources, not feelings. That you feel some way about something is irrelevant. Reliable sources do cover this story, and we do have a quality article. --Jayron32 15:17, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post-posting comment this should be seen very much as a one-off, and not setting a precedent for other end of production events. The B747 is IMvHO the 2nd most significant aircraft after the DC-3. The only other aircraft that would remotely approach this level of significance is the B737, which is not likely to cease production for the forseeable future. Mjroots (talk) 20:08, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

(Attention needed) Cristina Fernández de Kirchner jailed for corruption

Article: Cristina Fernández de Kirchner (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Vice President and former President of Argentina, Cristina Fernández de Kirchner is convicted and sentenced to prison for corruption. (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian
Credits:

Article needs updating

Nominator's comments: Article is not ready owing to generally scant and dated coverage of subject's numerous legal problems. I am posting the nomination in the hope of drawing attention to the article's shortcomings by someone with a reasonable command of Spanish and access to Argentine news sources who can improve the page. This is huge news in Argentina and South America more broadly. But the coverage of her legal problems in the article has been so poor that I am seriously questioning the article's status as GA. Ad Orientem (talk) 01:39, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support once updated/improved Former head (and current VP) of a G20 state heading to prison is certainly a notable-enough event for the FP. The Kip (talk) 01:56, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support I can see how this is huge news in Argentina. Article is in an ok state, updating aside, though that one “unbalanced viewpoint” tag should be looked into. Juxlos (talk)
  • Comment: There is an important thing to clarify: the trial had this result, right, but there will be an appeal once the full sentence is delivered (we got the important part today, but the judges must still clarify a lot of technical details before the case can be formally closed). Until those appeals are over, in many years, CFK will not be serving time in prison. If this is newsworthy, it will only be because of the sentence itself. See here Cambalachero (talk) 03:30, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    At ITN when dealing with highly prominent criminal cases, we typically post convictions, not sentences. In this case the sentence was more or less handed down with the verdict, so I included it with the nom. We do not typically hold off posting a conviction based on the likelihood of an appeal. In fact, I can't remember a single instance of that happening. All of which said, the article quality as it relates to coverage of CFK's legal issues is so poor (as of this comment) that if I were voting, I'd oppose my own nomination. -Ad Orientem (talk) 04:00, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose The Guardian reports that "though she is unlikely to serve any prison time soon as she has immunity due to her government roles and is expected to launch a lengthy appeals process that could take years." So, this is an ongoing situation rather than a done deal. And, in any case, the nomination states clearly that quality is lacking. BTW, notice that we're blurbing Anwar Ibrahim as the new Malaysian PM. That politician was actually jailed due to accusations that some say were politically motivated and just a show trial. The legal system is a political weapon in many places and unpicking the details to get at the truth isn't easy. Andrew🐉(talk) 09:32, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. The conviction is not an ongoing situation. We do not wait for appeals to be exhausted before posting a conviction. If the conviction is tossed, that can be posted too. A former head of state and current officeholder being convicted of a crime and barred from public office(as many want to do with Donald Trump) is significant, even if it is later thrown out(which is likely years away). 331dot (talk) 10:21, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Support - Pretty big event, sending shockwaves through Argentina and South America. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 10:24, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for now. Article has a an orange tag in the "Image" section that needs fixing. Article mentions nothing about the case except a single sentence on the conviction. I would expect a significant several paragraphs covering the investigation, the charges, the trial, and the conviction. If this is going to be posted on the main page, it needs a lot of work. --Jayron32 13:24, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support in principle, oppose on article quality. The conviction of a former president (and current vice-president) on serious charges is significant, and 6 years is a serious sentence. Conviction is the relevant point for ITN to post - we don't wait for all possible appeals. However, the article has three orange-level tags on it, and contains very little information on the case. The 'legal charges' section seems to be referring to the early stages of this case, but in future tense and has no information on the result. The entire update [24] is two near-duplicate sentences, containing no more information than is in the blurb. There needs to be at least a full paragraph of referenced prose, and the orange tags need to be addressed, before we can post in ITN. Modest Genius talk 17:58, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - We have precedents of posting convictions of former heads of state, including Peru's Alberto Fujimori, Israel's Moshe Katsav and Liberia's Charles Taylor, to mention some. Furthermore, Cristina is incumbent Vice President, which makes the news ever more relevant. --NoonIcarus (talk) 00:01, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Highly notable conviction. Article is updated and ready as well.BabbaQ (talk) 00:09, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Per above, notable conviction of a significant figure. Article appears to check out. Ornithoptera (talk) 00:42, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Very high-profile conviction and the article is okay, although there’s currently one subsection that has been orange-tagged. Vida0007 (talk) 08:47, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait Coverage is insufficient in the article at this time. Significance qualification is met. 75.188.228.163 (talk) 12:39, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support as a criminal conviction of a world leader. DrewieStewie (talk) 17:22, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support information on her legal issues I think is quite sufficient. If anyone wants to know more about them, some cases have their own Wiki articles. Orange tag should be removed. _-_Alsor (talk) 00:08, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment This is older than the oldest current blurb, 2022 Swiss Federal Council election, which was from 7 Dec. Perhaps WP:ITNBALANCE will allow an WP:IAR posting later.—Bagumba (talk) 10:10, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Mills Lane

Article: Mills Lane (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [25]
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Of Tyson/Holyfield and Celebrity Deathmatch fame – Muboshgu (talk) 19:05, 6 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Shrug - The article looks to have been updated. I'm just not sure whether or not it's the level of detail we would expect to post something to the Main Page.--🌈WaltCip-(talk) 14:12, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    WaltCip, what do you mean by this? Curbon7 (talk) 14:20, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    The article is rated start-class in four Wikiprojects, and stub-class in a fifth. So it's difficult for me to tell if this is a stub or not, and we generally don't post stubs. 🌈WaltCip-(talk) 14:34, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    The article is not a stub, and has been reassessed for all WikiProjects. Flibirigit (talk) 19:00, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not ready: Article has multiple citation needed tags. Flibirigit (talk) 19:03, 8 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Some citations are bare URLs which need a template. Flibirigit (talk) 15:34, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Flibirigit, WP:HEY. – Muboshgu (talk) 19:17, 9 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - looks good, nice work. DatGuyTalkContribs 19:09, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posted. --PFHLai (talk) 21:16, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) Indonesian extramarital sex ban

NO ARTICLE
Until an article directly relating to the event is created, there's really no discussion to be held regarding this news item. Unfortunately, this means this good-faith nomination has to be closed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by WaltCip (talk • contribs) 18:09, 6 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: No article specified
Blurb: ​ Indonesia unanimously passes legislation banning extramarital sex and cohabitation. (Post)
News source(s): BBC, CNN, Guardian, Sky
Credits:
Nominator's comments: Quite a significant event of human rights being removed, one of the causes of the 2019 riots finally making it to law. Widely reported. Tractor Tyres (talk) 17:19, 6 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose It's a new criminal code with about 600 laws about numerous moral offences such as blasphemy, insulting the president, &c. We'd need to see a relevant article and summarise the whole thing, not just cherry-pick some sensational detail. Andrew🐉(talk) 17:30, 6 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - Per Andrew PrecariousWorlds (talk) 17:34, 6 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose without an article about this - it's hardly suitable. Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 17:51, 6 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. No article. ~~lol1VNIO⁠🎌 (I made a mistake? talk to me) 17:52, 6 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, no article. Sarrail (talk) 17:58, 6 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

References

Nominators often include links to external websites and other references in discussions on this page. It is usually best to provide such links using the inline URL syntax [http://example.com] rather than using <ref></ref> tags, because that keeps all the relevant information in the same place as the nomination without having to jump to this section, and facilitates the archiving process.

For the times when <ref></ref> tags are being used, here are their contents:

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