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Use the closure requests noticeboard to ask an uninvolved editor to assess, summarize, and formally close a Wikipedia discussion. Do so when consensus appears unclear, it is a contentious issue, or where there are wiki-wide implications (e.g. any change to our policies or guidelines).
Do not list discussions where consensus is clear. If you feel the need to close them, do it yourself.
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Do not post here to rush the closure. Also, only do so when the discussion has stabilised.
On the other hand, if the discussion has much activity and the outcome isn't very obvious, you should let it play out by itself. We want issues to be discussed well. Do not continue the discussion here.
There is no fixed length for a formal request for comment (RfC). Typically 7 days is a minimum, and after 30 days the discussion is ripe for closure. The best way to tell is when there is little or no activity in the discussion, or further activity is unlikely to change its result.
When the discussion is ready to be closed and the outcome is not obvious, you can submit a brief and neutrally worded request for closure.
Include a link to the discussion itself and the {{Initiated}} template at the beginning of the request. A helper script can make listing easier. Move discussions go in the 'other types' section.
Any uninvolved editor may close most discussions, so long as they are prepared to discuss and justify their closing rationale.
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Non-admins can close most discussions. Admins may not overturn your non-admin closures just because you are not an admin, and this is not normally in itself a problem at reviews. Still, there are caveats. You may not close discussions as an unregistered user, or where implementing the closure would need tools or edit permissions you do not have access to. Articles for deletion and move discussion processes have more rules for non-admins to follow.
Technical instructions for closers
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If you want to formally challenge and appeal the closure, do not start the discussion here. Instead follow advice at WP:CLOSECHALLENGE.
Other areas tracking old discussions
- Wikipedia:Requested moves#Elapsed listings
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Administrative discussions
ANI thread concerning Yasuke
(Initiated 36 days ago on 2 July 2024) Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive1162 § Talk: Yasuke has on-going issues has continued to grow, including significant portions of content discussion (especially since Talk:Yasuke was ec-protected) and accusations of BLP violations, among other problems. Could probably be handled one sub-discussion at a time. --JBL (talk) 17:50, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
Place new administrative discussions above this line using a level 3 heading
Requests for comment
RFA2024, Phase II discussions
Hi! Closers are requested for the following three discussion:
- (Initiated 98 days ago on 2 May 2024) Administrator recall
- (Initiated 95 days ago on 5 May 2024) Designated RfA monitors
- (Initiated 95 days ago on 5 May 2024) Reminder of civility norms at RfA
Many thanks in advance! theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 04:27, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
Doing... reminder of civility norms. voorts (talk/contributions) 00:24, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
Partly done reminder of civility norms. voorts (talk/contributions) 00:40, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
If re-requesting closure at WP:AN isn't necessary, then how about different various closers for cerain section(s)? I don't mind one or two closers for one part or another or more. --George Ho (talk) 17:39, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
- During Phase I of RFA2024, we had ended up having multiple closers for different RFCs, even the non-obvious ones. I think different people closing subparts of this should be acceptable Soni (talk) 09:22, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
- Bumping this as an important discussion very much in need of and very much overdue for a formal closure. Tazerdadog (talk) 18:40, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
(Initiated 47 days ago on 22 June 2024) nableezy - 17:53, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
(Initiated 46 days ago on 22 June 2024) - I thank the Wikipedia community for being so willing to discuss this topic very extensively. Because 30 days have passed and requested moves in this topic area are already being opened (For reference, a diff of most recent edit to the conversation in question), I would encourage an uninvolved editor to determine if this discussion is ready for closure. AndrewPeterT (talk) (contribs) 22:34, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- (Also, apologies if I have done something incorrectly. This is my first time filing such a request.) AndrewPeterT (talk) (contribs) 22:34, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- There is ongoing discussion there as to whether a closer for that discussion is necessary or desirable. I would suggest to wait and see how that plays out.--Wehwalt (talk) 14:58, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
- This is dragging on ad nauseam. I suggest an admin closes this, possibly with the conclusion that there is no consensus to change. PatGallacher (talk) 17:50, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
- There is ongoing discussion there as to whether a closer for that discussion is necessary or desirable. I would suggest to wait and see how that plays out.--Wehwalt (talk) 14:58, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
(Initiated 36 days ago on 2 July 2024) - The original topic (Lockley's book, "African Samurai: The True Story of Yasuke, a Legendary Black Warrior in Feudal Japan") has not been the focus of discussion since the first few days of the RFC when it seemed to reach a concensus. The book in question is no longer cited by the Yasuke page and has been replaced by several other sources of higher quality. Since then the subject of the RSN has shifted to an extension of Talk:Yasuke and has seen many SPA one post accounts hijack the discussion on the source to commit BLP violations towards Thomas Lockley almost exclusively citing Twitter. Given that the general discussion that was occuring has shifted back to [Talk:Yasuke] as well as the continued uptick in SPA's committing NOTHERE and BLP violations on the RSN, as well as the source in question is no longer being used - I think closure is reasonable. Relm (talk) 20:17, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
(Initiated 35 days ago on 4 July 2024) Discussion is ready to be closed. Nemov (talk) 01:09, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
(Initiated 34 days ago on 5 July 2024) This is a contentious issue, so I would like to ask for an uninvolved editor to properly close. Please have consideration to each argument and provide an explanation how each argument and source was considered. People have strong opinions on this issue so please take consideration if their statements and claims are accompanied by quotes from sources and whether WP guidelines are followed. We need to resolve this question based on sources and not opinions, since it was discussed multiple times over the years. Trimpops2 (talk) 23:46, 3 August 2024 (UTC)
(Initiated 32 days ago on 6 July 2024) Discussion is fairly simple but as this is a policy discussion it should likely receive uninvolved closure. EggRoll97 (talk) 04:03, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
Talk:La France Insoumise#RfC: How should the political position of La France Insoumise be described?
(Initiated 31 days ago on 7 July 2024) Discussion has already died down and the 30 days have elapsed. Uninvolved closure is requested. Thanks a lot! Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 21:45, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
(Initiated 29 days ago on 9 July 2024) Poster withdrew the RfC but due to the language used, I think a summary by an WP:UNINVOLVED editor would be preferable. Nickps (talk) 20:52, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
(Initiated 28 days ago on 10 July 2024) This is ready to close. Nemov (talk) 19:34, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
(Initiated 28 days ago on 11 July 2024) Participants requested for proper closure. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 18:02, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
Place new discussions concerning RfCs above this line using a level 3 heading
Deletion discussions
| V | May | Jun | Jul | Aug | Total |
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| CfD | 0 | 0 | 10 | 0 | 10 |
| TfD | 0 | 0 | 17 | 0 | 17 |
| MfD | 0 | 0 | 5 | 0 | 5 |
| FfD | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| RfD | 0 | 0 | 95 | 0 | 95 |
| AfD | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 1 |
Place new discussions concerning XfDs above this line using a level 3 heading
Other types of closing requests
(Initiated 252 days ago on 29 November 2023) Discussion started 29 November 2023. Last comment 25 July 2024. TarnishedPathtalk 00:34, 4 August 2024 (UTC)
(Initiated 75 days ago on 24 May 2024) Originally closed 3 June 2024, relisted following move review on 17 June 2024 (34 days ago). Last comment was only 2 days ago, but comments have been trickling in pretty slowly for weeks. Likely requires a decently experienced closer. Dylnuge (Talk • Edits) 01:54, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
(Initiated 72 days ago on 28 May 2024) Latest comment: 3 days ago, 79 comments, 37 people in discussion. Closing statement may be helpful for future discussions. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:29, 11 June 2024 (UTC)
- Doing...— Frostly (talk) 22:35, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
- @Frostly Are you still planning on doing this? Soni (talk) 16:57, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Soni, yes - have drafted close and will post by the end of today. Thanks! — Frostly (talk) 17:56, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
- I wanted to note that this is taking slightly longer than expected, but it is at the top of my priority and will be completed soon. — Frostly (talk) 05:14, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
- Soni, yes - have drafted close and will post by the end of today. Thanks! — Frostly (talk) 17:56, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
- @Frostly Are you still planning on doing this? Soni (talk) 16:57, 22 July 2024 (UTC)
- Archived. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. put'er there 13:32, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
(Initiated 70 days ago on 30 May 2024) Contentious merge discussion requiring uninvolved closer. voorts (talk/contributions) 01:35, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
(Initiated 60 days ago on 8 June 2024) Since much of the discussion centers on the title of the article rather than its content, the closer should also take into account the requested move immediately below on the talk page. Smyth (talk) 15:17, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
- If the closer finds "no consensus", I have proposed this route in which a discussion on merger and RM can happen simultaneously to give clearer consensus.VR (Please ping on reply) 20:10, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
Place new discussions concerning other types of closing requests above this line using a level 3 heading
Pages recently put under extended-confirmed protection
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User_talk:Timathom/Archive_1
I attempted to break up the archive for User_talk:Timathom, but was unsuccessful in doing so. Can you please advise me on how to go about breaking up this archive, if I can not get the talk page deleted? Please {{ping}} me when you respond. --Jax 0677 (talk) 19:33, 20 July 2018 (UTC)
- Bump --Jax 0677 (talk) 20:30, 24 July 2018 (UTC)
- I'm not certain what you're asking for. The current split, while irregular, seems fine. Killiondude (talk) 20:38, 24 July 2018 (UTC)
- Reply - @Killiondude:, ideally, the archives should be User talk:Timathom/Archive 1, "User talk:Timathom/Archive 2", "User talk:Timathom/Archive 3", etc. Someone refused to delete the page such that this could be done. Additionally, User talk:Timathom/Archive 1 is over 200 kB, and the bot is not splitting it properly. Please {{ping}} me when you respond. --Jax 0677 (talk) 14:18, 25 July 2018 (UTC)
- As far as I know it is up to the "owner" of a talk page to archive the page. Not somebody else. The Banner talk 14:29, 25 July 2018 (UTC)
- It does seem odd that Jax has now taken it upon himself to archive inactive user's talk pages without their permission and actively looking for user talk pages over 100K in size to do so. --StarcheerspeaksnewslostwarsTalk to me 20:08, 28 July 2018 (UTC)
- Reply - @The Banner:, as it turns out, on behalf of the user, someone else already archived the page here without splitting it into multiple pages. I changed the archive period, which caused the talk archive to be further split. --Jax 0677 (talk) 17:06, 26 July 2018 (UTC)
Abandoned discussion at Talk:Comic Con
Can anyone close this discussion, please? 189.69.68.249 (talk) 17:19, 25 July 2018 (UTC)
- Which discussion? There are several discussions on that talk page. Erpert blah, blah, blah... 20:11, 26 July 2018 (UTC)
- That about the merge. 187.26.160.124 (talk) 20:39, 26 July 2018 (UTC)
Backlog-that-is-not-a-backlog at WP:UAA
There are several usernames that have been globally locked – I assume the bot has not removed them because they are not blocked locally, though. There are also quite a few requests that have been replied to as "wait until the user edits". Would it be proper for a non-admin to clean those up, or would it be better to have an admin do it? –FlyingAce✈hello 22:36, 25 July 2018 (UTC)
- Anything marked to wait can be moved to the holding pen. And yes, you can just remove anyone who is globally locked. This sort of thing is one of the few ways non-admins can really help at UAA and is always appreciated. Beeblebrox (talk) 23:18, 26 July 2018 (UTC)
ASR VISIONS
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Vandalism as first edits. —Heating172 (talk) 12:51, 26 July 2018.
- (Non-administrator comment) @Heating172: Unless there are deleted edits, I do not see how the user's edits to their talk page constitute vandalism. Self-promotional, yes, but not all disruptive editing is vandalism; please take a moment to read WP:NOTVAND. In any case, if the edits were vandalism, the proper channel to report is WP:AIV. –FlyingAce✈hello 13:11, 26 July 2018 (UTC)
- While not vandalism, the account is a promotional one, with a promotional name. I've blocked the account on these grounds, and they are more than welcome to request an unblock with a name change, and what they plan on editing outside of their organization. RickinBaltimore (talk) 13:12, 26 July 2018 (UTC)
An arbitration case regarding BLP issues on British politics articles has now closed and the final decision is viewable at the link above. The following remedies have been enacted:
- Philip Cross (talk · contribs) is warned to avoid editing topics with which he has a conflict of interest. Further, he is warned that his off-wiki behavior may lead to further sanctions to the extent it adversely impacts the English Wikipedia.
- Philip Cross (talk · contribs) is indefinitely topic banned from edits relating to post-1978 British politics, broadly construed. This restriction may be first appealed after six months have elapsed, and every six months thereafter. This sanction supersedes the community sanction applied in May 2018.
- KalHolmann (talk · contribs) is indefinitely restricted from linking to or speculating about the off-wiki behavior or identity of other editors. This restriction may be first appealed after six months have elapsed, and every six months thereafter. All appeals must be directed toward arbcom-l
lists.wikimedia.org. - The community is reminded that publicly posting details or speculation regarding an editor’s personal information or off-wiki behavior violates the policy on outing, unless the information has been disclosed on-wiki by the editor in question. Concerns regarding off-wiki behavior are best reported through an appropriate private channel rather than on community noticeboards.
For the Arbitration Committee, --Cameron11598 (Talk) 19:27, 26 July 2018 (UTC)
- Discuss this at: Wikipedia talk:Arbitration Committee/Noticeboard#Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/BLP issues on British politics articles closed
TenPoundHammer XfD Topic ban appeal
Back in January, it was voted upon to indefinitely topic-ban me from XFD.
I admit that XFD has been a major sticking point for me over the years, and the above discussion wasn't my first go-round there. This one seems to have been instigated by my attempts to clean up Category:Cleanup tagged articles without a reason field. I clearly bit off more than I could chew there -- I was plowing through a ton of articles that seemed incredibly abandoned and non-notable on first glance, only to be proven wrong by one AFD too many. I was frustrated to no end by a constant barrage of !votes that seemed to me like WP:ATA and a lot of what I perceived as WP:SEP behavior. It was driving me to become far more angry and confrontational than I needed to be. I think it was clear that taking on such a huge task was only exacerbating my problems in previous XFDs. When this happened, I was told that it would be possible to appeal later on, so here I am. I went overboard and kept provoking myself instead of stepping back, and I think the topic-ban was justified since it cleared my head of the XFD process and frustrations thereof for a while.
Recently I was asked to take a look at Beader. This article seems like a surefire AFD candidate. No sources that I have found, including Merriam-Webster or Wiktionary, support the article as written. An AFD would be a good way to decide whether to delete it outright, redirect to beadwork, or rewrite it to be about something else. I also found Template:Angaleena Presley, a template that navigates only three articles and isn't even used on its parent article, thus failing WP:NENAN. Thirdly I found Real-time multimedia over ATM, a completely contextless essay that doesn't seem to have any reason to exist. And finally I found Sports Overnight America, a show that airs on a non-notable SiriusXM channel, and extensive Googling of which does not turn up anything but reposts of episodes. I would like to use these four as a trial basis for reverting my XFD topic-ban. Perhaps some sort of soft limitations can be placed to make sure I don't go overboard again (limit on number of XFDs per day/week, one-strike rule on bad XFD behavior, etc.). Whatever it is, I would like to acknowledge my reckless behavior and be given a chance to appeal my topic-ban. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 22:45, 26 July 2018 (UTC)
- Comment the TBAN placed approximately 6 months ago both prevented TenPoundHammer from nominating articles for deletion, and from commenting/!voting on other people's nominations. As this user has followed their TBAN and contributed constructively elsewhere, I'm inclined to support loosening the topic ban, with some restrictions for at least 6 more months. Based on the appeal statement, they seem more interested in being able to nominate articles than in voting, but it feels backwards to allow TPH to nominate articles for deletion but not to comment on other people's deletion proposals. A limit on the number of AFDs per day seems necessary as well. power~enwiki (π, ν) 00:27, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
- Comment I find your topic ban appeal inadequate in several ways, TenPoundHammer. The severe behavioral problems that led to the topic ban go back well over a decade, and I expect you to acknowledge those disruptive behaviors and make specific pledges to avoid specific behaviors. Let's take for example your long-term behavior of profanely insulting and berating editors who provide links to reliable sources showing notabilty in AfD debates. I speak as an editor who lists about 100 examples on my user page where I saved articles from AfD by adding sources. You seem to believe that such editors are obligated to add those sources to the article, even though there is nothing whatsoever in policies or guidelines that requires that. I recommend that you have a specific editing restriction that obligates you to add properly formatted references to any article you nominated for deletion whenever any other editor finds a good source. You should also be restricted from using the "f-bomb" or any other profanity or personal insults in XfD discussions. You have failed to address your misleading edit summaries which seemed intended to deceive other editors. You must make a firm commitment to informative, truthful edit summaries. You have repeatedly admitted that your Google skills are inadequate to properly complete WP:BEFORE. Since this problem has persisted for well over a decade, I want to know which specific and concrete steps that you have taken to improve your Google search skills in the past six months. I have a very strong suspicion that lifting your topic ban without specific restrictions on your behavior, and specific ironclad behavioral commitments from you, will lead straight to further disruption, and further blocks or bans. So, convince me that your long years of repeated disruptive XfD behavior will never, ever happen again. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 01:16, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
- Support with conditions. The conditions being: "No more than one nomination per day"; "Nominations must involve a comprehensive deletion rational particular to the page nominationed, not a rationale that can be applied generically to many pages"; and "No more than ten XfD posts per day, counting nominations, !votes, questions, answers, and comments". TPH was always valuable in XfD functions, but I think the problems all stemmed from attempting too much. If this works out, the conditions can be relaxed. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 01:36, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose. The blatant problems were so longterm, so intractable, and so devious there is no way I would support a removal of the TBan, and the fact that the editor is already chomping at the bit is a red flag. He should also not be fielding requests to "take a look at an article" to see if he agrees it should be deleted -- that in itself is a violation of the TBan in my opinion. The fact is, there was overwhelming support for an indefinite TBan, and some additional calls for a WP:NOTHERE block. Softlavender (talk) 04:12, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
- Support- I see strong evidence that, since the ban, TPH has been improving his attitude and skills and has acknowledged the behaviour that led to the ban. I'd support loosening the ban to allow one nomination a day without commentary on other peoples' nominations, lasting three months or so, and we'll see how that goes. Reyk YO! 05:55, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose The fact that you already have pages in your sights means you haven't been thinking about other things, you've just been biding your time. This is a behavioral addiction for you it seems, and you haven't hit 'rock bottom' to start the recovery process. So yeah, that's a no from me. --Tarage (talk) 06:53, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
- WP:ROPE. If lifting these sanctions goes poorly, then you literally have nothing to worry about. -FASTILY 07:45, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
- WP:ROPE#When not to use: Banned users – users blocked by community discussion or ArbCom. Regards SoWhy 13:57, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
- Oh, for goodness sake. WP:ROPE is an essay. Using it here a quick way of saying "OK, let's give this editor another chance, because hopefully they'll be careful knowing that if they screw up again, they won't get another one". Also, TPB isn't blocked or banned anyway. Black Kite (talk) 14:04, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
- As the primary author of that essay, I can assure you that what I meant was full site bans, and have adjusted the language to reflect that. Beeblebrox (talk) 19:51, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
- Support. Time served, lessons learned. I think a second chance is in order. -FASTILY 07:43, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
- Support. While as Softlavender says, there was indeed overwhelming support for an indefinite topic ban, "indefinite" does not mean "eternal", it means until the issues are acknowledged, understood, and resolved. They have certainly been acknowledged, and presumably understood. We can only assume good faith and give TPH the opportunity to demonstrate that they've been resolved. I do think a throttle of some sort is sensible (one nomination and three comments total across all XFD discussions a day?), and TPH must surely appreciate this would be the last chance, with any incivility towards, belittling of, or ranting at other editors seeing the XFD ban re-implemented, likely for good. I would like him to acknowledge what Cullen says, as the "specific and ironclad behavioural commitments" Cullen mentions are a reasonable expectation before the ban is partially lifted. Fish+Karate 08:01, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
- No, the issues have not been acknowledged or understood. TPH has only acknowledged the issue around his "attempts to clean up Category:Cleanup tagged articles without a reason field", not the numerous serious and longterm problems cited in the proposal thread: [1]. -- Softlavender (talk) 12:52, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose, not only what Softlavender, Cullen328 and Tarage pointed out, but the examples given in the appeal demonstrate clearly why it shouldn't be granted:
- Beader can, by his own admission, by fixed via WP:ATD without an AFD. Yet he believes it should be discussed there. Plus, it takes only a short while to find this entry in the Dictionary of Occupational Titles which shows our article is copied from this work without attribution (but since it's a US government work, it's likely PD).
- The only reason why TPH thinks Template:Angaleena Presley should be deleted is an essay he himself wrote (talk about circular reasoning!) and the fact that it's not used in the main article, which can easily be fixed.
- Real-time multimedia over ATM might be a mess but it only takes a short Google search to find that this is a notable topic that can easily be written about by someone knowledgeable, e.g. [2] [3] [4] [5]. This seems to be another one of those cases where TPH believes deletion is in order because he does not understand it.
- Sports Overnight America can easily be merged/redirected to Sports Byline USA without an AFD.
- Judging by those examples, they do not inspire any confidence that TPH has actually learned why this ban was instituted in the first place. As pointed out above, it does not appear that he really stepped back and reflected but merely waited out the ban to resume the same problematic behavior. Regards SoWhy 08:15, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
- For, one I don't think RMOA ought be devoted an entire article.But, it can be easily devoted a paragraph and merged, without an AfD, which I'll take an attempt at, soon:).But, , I'm clueless about Beader, do you think all the 13,000 articles at DOT, deserves a standalone article? Agree as to the rest.∯WBGconverse 08:24, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
- I'm wondering if Beader probably should be at AFD. I can't find a single reference to this job that isn't copied either from the DOT or our article. You would have thought, wouldn't you, that if a job appears there it would be referenced somewhere? I wonder if it has an alternative, better known name? Black Kite (talk) 08:42, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
- For, one I don't think RMOA ought be devoted an entire article.But, it can be easily devoted a paragraph and merged, without an AfD, which I'll take an attempt at, soon:).But, , I'm clueless about Beader, do you think all the 13,000 articles at DOT, deserves a standalone article? Agree as to the rest.∯WBGconverse 08:24, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose on the current appeal rationale, which seems to be saying "sorry for my lack of self-control that time", and talking as if the ban is just down to that one episode (with a passing mention that "XFD has been a major sticking point for me over the years"). It is not. User:Cullen328 says it best, and there's one key point behind my current opposition. This has been a problem for the past decade, and it consists of TPH either not understanding or refusing to abide by what XFD is for and refusing to follow policy before making nominations. WP:BEFORE is key to it, and I believe TPH says he's been bad at it because he's no good at Google. Sorry, but I call bullshit on that. It's plain from AFDs discussed during the ban proposal that he made no attempt whatsoever - other people found sources within seconds from simple searches that a child could do. And in his article work, TPH actually seems to be very good at finding sources. None of this has been addressed in the current appeal. TPH should stick to what he's good at, which is article creation and improvement. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 08:49, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
- Agree. For some reason, TPH abandons everything he knows when editing articles as soon as he encounters articles he thinks should be deleted. I'm certainly no expert but based on this it seems Tarage might be right when they call it a "behavioral addiction". It's doubtful that this has changed or will change, so keeping the topic ban is actually in his best interest. Because the next time we have to discuss his behavior when (not if) he goes overboard with deletion again, we might well be forced to consider banning him from this project altogether and not just a small area. And I don't see how this benefits anyone. Regards SoWhy 09:24, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose per Boing! and Cullen328 and SoWhy. While a restriction is probably annoying, and possibly prevents some productive work this editor would enjoy, it does allow him to be active on the site, which is a real positive for the encyclopaedia; a removal and (possible/likely) following reinstatement or ban would be a net negative for us. Happy days, LindsayHello 12:31, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
- Support - a net positive, and quite frankly, quite a few of the AFDs I've been participating in have been lately have been pretty low in participation. We need more people discussing in them. 6 months was plenty long, and if people aren't happy with it, it can always be re-applied. Sergecross73 msg me 12:52, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
- Support per (a) WP:ROPE, and (b) I was never happy with the discussion that imposed an indef topic ban in the first place; quite apart from the Opposes, there were quite a number of people supporting a temporary topic ban, not to mention drive-by Supports. While I respect Ritchie333 a lot, I don't think that was one of his best closes ever. Black Kite (talk) 13:01, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
- Would allowing TPH to comment but disallowing nomination work? --Izno (talk) 13:25, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
- I don't see any problem with allowing XFD discussion, as it does seem to be nomination that's the problem. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 13:47, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
- Comment / partial oppose I note that "to bead" ("to provide with beads or beading") includes "a narrow moulding" (Chambers), thus a "beader" would clearly be anyone who attaches such a narrow moulding. I concur that a limit of one XfD per day would be a rational point of entry. Collect (talk) 13:30, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose per Cullen and Boing!--Pawnkingthree (talk) 13:36, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
- Support per WP:ROPE. I have no indication (this being the nature of topic bans) that anything underlying has changed. But he deserves the chance. I'd support proposals such as limiting this to discussions, not initiating, XfDs, or rate-limiting them. I'm unconvinced by the examples like beader - having found a couple of obvious targets for deletion demonstrates little about the less clear ones, or (far more importantly) the behavioural issues around them. Andy Dingley (talk) 13:52, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
- Comment. I'm uneasy with those WP:ROPE arguments. That essay (which explicitly does not apply to ban/unban discussions) is basically a WP:AGF supplement, i.e. "if you don't know whether they have learnt their lesson, unblock them and you will quickly see". Some people here though are pretty certain that we do kow that TPH has not learned his lessons (and might not be capable to learn them at all) but support unbanning anyway. But they know that if we give him the rope, he will hang himself which is not a desirable outcome. We should not want that because he does good work in other areas. Regards SoWhy 14:08, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
- Yes, I was thinking pretty much the same thing, and you've put it very well. I'm concerned that a WP:ROPE unban could backfire and lead to more extreme restrictions at a later date. And I really don't want that - I don't want TPH to end up with a more extreme ban than he currently has, and I strongly prefer restricting him to what he is very good at. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 14:51, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
- I have never before seen a tbanned editor's good work in another area actually damage their prospect of getting the ban lifted. Wow. Reyk YO! 15:43, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
- I can understand how my comment might have come across, and it was perhaps poorly presented, so I'll try to explain further. I am not opposing TPH's unban because of his other good work. My opposition is because TPH has not attempted to address the actual chronic problems with his XFD contributions, as I explained above, and I really think we need to see that if the ban is to be lifted or reduced. WP:ROPE is, as User:SoWhy suggests, something of an "I don't know, so let's see how they go" thing. But with TPH, we do know, and I think we should insist on a convincing addressing of his actual problems before we consider an unban. I think a WP:ROPE unban without such a convincing appeal would be more to his harm than his good, and that is based on my respect for his long history of contributions which I do not want to lose. I hope that makes my thoughts clearer. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 16:23, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
- I have never before seen a tbanned editor's good work in another area actually damage their prospect of getting the ban lifted. Wow. Reyk YO! 15:43, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
- Yes, I was thinking pretty much the same thing, and you've put it very well. I'm concerned that a WP:ROPE unban could backfire and lead to more extreme restrictions at a later date. And I really don't want that - I don't want TPH to end up with a more extreme ban than he currently has, and I strongly prefer restricting him to what he is very good at. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 14:51, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
- I agree - but I also see this risk as being a problem for TPH, not for anyone else. No-one is forcing him to behave in a particular way. If that's a way which gets him blocked in the future, that's no different to any other editor. Andy Dingley (talk) 09:23, 28 July 2018 (UTC)
- Support - TPH is generally a deletionist, but not a crazy, Vogonesque one. Rather, he uses logic and reason and has the good of the encyclopedia in mind. We definitely disagree on where the line should be drawn at AfD on certain topics, but I respect him for the honesty of his opinions always — he's not irrational or unthinking, which is more than I can say for a couple of the AfD regulars, who remain unsanctioned. Carrite (talk) 18:37, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
- Support: Ban was excessive and never should have been implemented in the first place. pbp 18:36, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
Suggestion
- OK, for the time being, how about this? TPH's topic ban from deletion discussions is vacated; however, he is not allowed to initiate any deletion process (CSD, PROD or XFD) for a period of 3 months. After that period, he may apply here for the topic ban to be vacated completely. Black Kite (talk) 14:09, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
- Support- sounds reasonable. Reyk YO! 14:11, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
- Support. Happy with that, and arguably TPH should not have been banned from contributing to XFD discussions that he did not start in the first place. It's his out-of-policy nominations that need to be stopped. As for appealing the ban on XFD nominations in three months, that's fine, but I'd say it would require him to properly address his actual problems, to which he has so far not come close. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 16:27, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
- Support 3 month trial before application, and likely support full lifting at that time. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 16:46, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
- Given the disagreement above about the length of time served, 3 months seems short. Maybe 6 months to 1 year are more likely to gain consensus. (I personally have no objection to any particular number.) --Izno (talk) 17:21, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
- Support and I will likely support allowing 1-3 XFD nominations per day in 3 months. power~enwiki (π, ν) 17:35, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
- Support as reasonable. D4iNa4 (talk) 17:39, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
- Comment: If he is unable to nominate within policy, why should we assume he is able to !vote within policy? As I said above, I'm pretty sure keeping TPH from deletion altogether is the best course of action but I cannot fault the logic that the ban was placed because of his nominations and not his !voting, so I will abstain from this discussion. I highly recommend instituting a limit to the amount of !voting he is allowed to discourage the "brainless shotgun" approach and force him to carefully consider his !votes. Regards SoWhy 18:06, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
- Much of the disruption came from clearly spurious nominations (public-facing notices and excessive XFDs). This path allows TPH to show us that he has learned what community norms are without allowing that side of the disruption, which builds a track record which we can use later to say "Yes, you have figured it out", "No, you haven't figured it out yet", or "No, you have continued your disruption at XFD by the way in which you have commented there and therefore we will replace the ban on XFD" (or if we should for some reason think he is entirely a net negative outside of XFD, ban him entirely). --Izno (talk) 17:56, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
- Support - Very reasonable suggestion. I'm okay with him coming back without preconditions, even. Carrite (talk) 18:34, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
- I could support this, but I prefer a full lift now. pbp 18:43, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
- Support as nominee. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 19:30, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
- Not sure you should be voting. --Tarage (talk) 19:39, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
- It’s perfectly normal and permitted to comment on the merits fo a restriction that applies to oneself. Beeblebrox (talk) 19:46, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
- Not sure you should be voting. --Tarage (talk) 19:39, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
- Support - but only as a backup plan, if there isn’t a consensus to fully repeal the restrictions. Sergecross73 msg me 20:07, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
- support Andy Dingley (talk) 22:15, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
- Support per B!sZ. The sanction should fit the problem. Miniapolis 22:31, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
- Support Sounds like a reasonable first step.--S Philbrick(Talk) 23:10, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose Unless and until TenPoundHammer specifically addresses the behavioral concerns that I raised and that several other editors raised in the section above. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 00:15, 28 July 2018 (UTC)
- Support I'd also support allowing 1-3 noms per day now, but this is a reasonable, if conservative, way to integrate TPH back into deletion processes. Tazerdadog (talk) 05:21, 28 July 2018 (UTC)
- Support, as TPH is an useful member of the community, it is always better to have such members unrestricted. Like Cullen328, however, i would very much like to see him address the concerns raised above and six months ago. Happy days, LindsayHello 16:20, 28 July 2018 (UTC)
- Support Let's have a progressive loosening of the restrictions. Ronhjones (Talk) 17:32, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
- Support as a more tentative step than my suggested 1 nomination per day (plus 9 other XfD posts). NB. it is easier to be calm in someone else's nominated XfD because you don't feel to be seen to have put your credibility on the line. Contributing with civility will be hard when he makes his own nominations again. After Black Kite's three months, I suggest a second step of limited nominations per day, for some months at least, before the topic ban is to be vacated completely. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 02:13, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
- Support TPH has been very much a mixed blessing around XfDs. I'm pretty far on the inclusionist side, but I think TPH does a really good job in places (music discussion as I recall). Just sometimes takes it all too personally (which can be easy to do). I like SmokeyJoe's suggestion for what to do after 3 months. Hobit (talk) 20:43, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
Role account?
This user has signed my talkpage as "Suede" here, but on his own userpage says Suede is "my associate". I don't really want to amplify the drama with this person; could somebody else talk to them? ☆ Bri (talk) 03:35, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
- I looked up the person Wreichel28 mentioned on their talk page, 'Suede Dickerson': It happens that there's a marketing specialist for Pierce-Arrow Publishing by that name. On the site that Wreichel28 aka 'Suede' complains about you removing, there's a review of a book which happens to have been published by none other, written by someone called Warren R. Reichel. There's also a new user, Suede Dickerson adding the same link to the article. I don't think they're the same person, but I think they share a COI, and I left them both notices of the guidelines. BlackcurrantTea (talk) 04:23, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
Unblock request by User:BukhariSaeed
BukhariSaeed (talk · contribs) put the following unblock request on their talk page and asked me to copy it here for a community review. There was a previous review in November 2017. Huon (talk) 10:57, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
During the past several months i have realised that i have committed mistakes and i will not repeat the same mistakes (i.e. sockpuppetry, violation of WP:BLOCK, bad behaviour) and i assure that no harmful or destructive activity will take place no sort of vandalism, no sort of sock puppetry or any type of rubbish stuff will be seen.— Bukhari (Talk!) 18:30, 24 July 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose and I think we should consider a WP:SNOW close here. The user clearly knew about our policies around WP:SOCK and repeatedly violated them during 2017. Claiming they suddenly realised their mistakes "during the past several months" stretches credulity past the breaking point. There's nothing in this unblock request that convinces me they'd behave if unblocked. However, note that I am not aware of any block evasion over the past six months. --Yamla (talk) 11:36, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
- Comment there appears to have been primarily "sock-puppetry to create the illusion of consensus" here, though there was some block evasion noted in their appeal in November 2017. They managed to get blocked within 7 days of creating an account, and had a whole bunch of immature behavior in response. They've been fairly active on other wikis (such as Urdu) since then. I do have some language/competence concerns; will this user be able to understand and follow site policies? And if they do inadvertently violate a policy or guidelikne, will they learn from their mistake, or will they resort to vandalism and sock-puppetry? power~enwiki (π, ν) 04:16, 28 July 2018 (UTC)
- Support I don't see any specific TBAN that will be of benefit in an unblock. I do specifically want to emphasize the need for references when adding content here. power~enwiki (π, ν) 19:50, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
- Support I am an admin and bureaucrat on Urdu Wikipedia. Bukhari is one of the most active user of urdu Wikipedia, I see him editing on daily basis and his edits are very constructive. He knows Wikipedia’s rules and policies very well and now he’s eliminator on Urdu Wikipedia. I request English Wikipedia admins to unblock him please.--Obaid Raza (talk) 14:48, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
- Support with topic ban -- I administered the indef block for socking and understand Yamla's concern: User:BukhariSaeed began their editing career here with persistent conflicts, disruptive agenda-based editing and socking. In unblock requests, they swore on an "oath of god" that they would never sock again [6], [7], and yet were check-user confirmed to be creating socks at the same time. Similar misbehavior resulted in a separate indefinite block on Simple Wikipedia. Their Standard Offer request [in November 2017 determined they had still been socking again. But as power-enwiki states this appears to be a case of immature behavior -- as well as an overzealous agenda to promote religious figures. Since then this user has shown that they can contribute effectively at Urdu Wikipedia and Commons. My inclination is to unblock with a topic ban on Sufi and Christian Saints broadly construed so that they can first demonstrate the ability to adhere to policy. The topic ban can be reviewed after six months. — CactusWriter (talk) 18:30, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
- Strong oppose - Per WP:CIR. BukhariSaeed who couldn't understand WP:SOCK even after months of the block,[8] and he was asking other editors to proxy for him. It is clear that it is going to be very hard to teach him the policies and guidelines whenever he will do anything wrong. It is also apparent on Urdu Wikipedia that he is indulged in off-wiki canvassing there.[9] Above unblock request is too unconvincing because it doesn't show what he will do if he was unblocked. Raymond3023 (talk) 18:09, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
- You are wrong about proxying. I told him today that he should ask for email to contact him personally. We, Urdu wikipedians, are very connected on other social channels. Muhammad Shuaib (talk) 19:21, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
- He was asking other editors to make edits for him while while he was blocked.[10] Read WP:PROXYING. Raymond3023 (talk) 19:34, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
- @Raymond3023:, i was not convassing him, i find his edits on اللو ارجن, thats why ask for his e-mail or phone, i want to add him on Urdu Wikipedia whatsapp group, and he gave me his email address. If you dont trust me you can confirm from any Urdu speaker. Thanks— Bukhari (Talk!) 18:31, 30 July 2018 (UTC) -- Since BukhariSaeed cannot reply here, I'm copying his comment from his user talk page. Huon (talk) 15:26, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
- He was asking other editors to make edits for him while while he was blocked.[10] Read WP:PROXYING. Raymond3023 (talk) 19:34, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
- You are wrong about proxying. I told him today that he should ask for email to contact him personally. We, Urdu wikipedians, are very connected on other social channels. Muhammad Shuaib (talk) 19:21, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
- Support per WP:SO and WP:ROPE. Blocks are cheap, and it should be made clear that a quick re-block is coming his way if he screws up again. --Jayron32 18:15, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
- Support per WP:ROPE. Despite having got into trouble and having been blocked ("until the end of time" according to Google Translate) on Urdu Wikipedia about a year ago, the user has 93k global edits and holds advanced permissions on several sister projects, and has an Urdu admin here vouching for them. It seems reasonable to assume the user has mended their ways, until there's some evidence here to the contrary. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 18:55, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
- Support with topic ban: I agree with CactusWriter. --Muzammil (talk) 19:13, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
- Strong Support: First of all I want to say that he's amazing person. We created together an International collabration called "Peace Spirits", to create some articles about India, Israel and Pakistan, BukhariSaeed did amazing work from his side in Urdu Wikipedia and I trust him to not break the rule again. Actually, I was suprised about his block, I couldn't belive that he opened a sock puppet. So I'm Supporting, I belive him. Ofek - Call me - In hebrew 19:47, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose No reason has been given how WP:ROPE applies here. Unblock request is poorly written and it doesn't show how he can benefit this encyclopedia. Onkuchia (talk) 19:31, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose "During the past several months i have realised that i have committed mistakes" that maybe sound for the first offense, not for repeated violations. Unless he could show significant contributions from English Wikipedia sister projects then only there would be some solid basis that why this account needs to be unblocked. BukhariSaeed has only 274 edits, of which nearly half of the edits were made on his own user talk page and mostly for requesting unblock. He has been blocked four times and I don't see how those numerous problems won't reoccur. Lorstaking (talk) 02:53, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose no indication that the potential good from unblocking outweighs the known potential for disruption. Unblocking is not in the best interest of Wikipedia because of that. TonyBallioni (talk) 03:07, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
- Support per CactusWriter. We have evidence they have improved on sister projects. WP:ROPE, etc. I do support the minimum 6-month topic ban. Hobit (talk) 12:51, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
- The recent message from BukhariSaeed that "i was not convassing him" when he was asking other editor to make edits for him while he was blocked.[11] This shows BukhariSaeed's inability to understand policies on multiple accounts and blocks. It seems that 6 months reset[12] never helped him to understand the policy and thus we have no reason not to oppose this request. Oppose. Accesscrawl (talk) 15:46, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
- He asked him to write an article on a specific topic? I don't think that's proxying. Or canvasing in any meaningful sense. Or is there something I'm missing? Hobit (talk) 17:12, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
- A blocked editor is not allowed to ask others to make edits for him. I was also saying that BukhariSaeed had his block reset for another 6 months for such evasion but still he is not learning.
I should also note that BukhariSaeed is sending me emails to support unblock on him. Accesscrawl (talk) 18:09, 31 July 2018 (UTC) 
Comment: The user shared the screenshot of the message he sent for clarification. Please check this --Muzammil (talk) 18:33, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
- A blocked editor is not allowed to ask others to make edits for him. I was also saying that BukhariSaeed had his block reset for another 6 months for such evasion but still he is not learning.
Disruptive IP
- 71.89.128.206 (talk · contribs · WHOIS)
Review edit summaries for examples of calling multiple editors "anti-Semite", "retarded", and misidentifying constructive edits as "vandalism". The IP is also edit-stalking, revert-warring, and is apparently WP:NOTHERE. Xenophrenic (talk) 15:36, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
- Blocked. Ian.thomson (talk) 15:46, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
Wikiexplorer13
I have added the {{banned user|[[WP:3X]]}} tag on User:Wikiexplorer13 for his long term socking. Though I am not 100% sure if only admins can put it, but nonetheless thought of letting others know here. D4iNa4 (talk) 17:25, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
60.246.161.253
ResolvedThis user is gross misuse of the internet at it’s finest, he is adding a gross, inappropriate, offensive, and just plain awful image to a large number of pages. Please, someone needs to oversight that person’s edits. ~SML • TP 23:13, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
Whoops, wrong page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sixty Minute Limit (talk • contribs) 23:17, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
I'm unable to create page on Premiership of Imran Khan. Any admin around? --Saqib (talk) 06:10, 28 July 2018 (UTC)
- Saqib Because when he will become PM then his Premiership will start. Currently, it is under restriction. Störm (talk) 06:19, 28 July 2018 (UTC)
Done It might be a bit premature, but as it's not related to the blacklist entry I've gone ahead and created the title. Be warned I might delete the initial entry, so the next person to edit the page will receive any notifications instead of me. -- zzuuzz (talk) 06:34, 28 July 2018 (UTC)
Something wrong with page Category:Candidates for speedy deletion as abandoned drafts or AfC submissions
- Page Category:Candidates for speedy deletion as abandoned drafts or AfC submissions is linked to from Category:Candidates for speedy deletion. In Category:Candidates for speedy deletion, Category:Candidates for speedy deletion as abandoned drafts or AfC submissions displays as "G13: Abandoned drafts or AfC submissions (314)", although Category:Candidates for speedy deletion as abandoned drafts or AfC submissions currently has no members, not 314 members. This mismatch between actual and reported number of members for Category:Candidates for speedy deletion as abandoned drafts or AfC submissions has been happening for a week or two now. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 17:28, 28 July 2018 (UTC)
- Maybe related to https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T195397? Ronhjones (Talk) 18:52, 28 July 2018 (UTC)
See also #Fault in page Category:Candidates for speedy deletion or one of its subpages hereinabove. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 21:02, 28 July 2018 (UTC)
- Pinging Anomie who's been working on this: Any luck with the bugs? BlackcurrantTea (talk) 03:44, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
- phab:T195397 was fixed a while ago. Possibly this was due to phab:T199762, which is now fixed too. I manually triggered a recount of the category, let's see if it goes bad again. Anomie⚔ 20:26, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
- @Anomie: It's broken again. There's ~150 phantom items in the category. -FASTILY 22:02, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
- phab:T195397 was fixed a while ago. Possibly this was due to phab:T199762, which is now fixed too. I manually triggered a recount of the category, let's see if it goes bad again. Anomie⚔ 20:26, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
- And again: Category:Candidates for speedy deletion says that 151 pages are in Category:Candidates for speedy deletion as abandoned drafts or AfC submissions, but actually there is only one page in it. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 04:29, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
- I have just called purge on Category:Candidates for speedy deletion, and the fault went away. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 04:33, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
Small, but significant error in a batch of my deletion rationales
Hi, moments ago I reviewed the images in Category:Disputed non-free Wikipedia files as of 21 July 2018 and cleaned up the ones that were worth saving and proceeded to delete the remaining. Instead of utilizing the deletion summary "F7: Violates non-free use policy" (which is what they were tagged for in the first place), I accidentally entered "F7: Violates non-free content criterion #1" instead. A small, but significant difference. This is usually not a a big deal; I'd restored the file and re-delete it citing the correct deletion rationale. However, in this case, it affected nearly 90 files. I'd... rather not manually do that, one-by-one. But is this my only option here? Is mass undeletion possible? Or should I simply leave them be and clarify my error if and when someone yells at me for deleting their file? Please don't hit me. ℯxplicit 01:33, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
- Just leave them be. F7 in both cases so the rationale is close, and individuals can object in either case, and are more likely to be distressed if the file is deleted twice! Graeme Bartlett (talk) 02:09, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
- At least you didn't paste in a movie title! Graham87 04:27, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
Could someone block my old alt-account?
Nothijiri88 (talk · contribs), despite the name, was me, as can be seen in its only (currently) live edit. I don't remember the password, nor did I even apparently remember the account's existence when I asked Salvio to block all my other alt-accounts later that summer. But I've found myself having to state a few times in the last several months that all my socks were blocked on my request, and it bothers me that I just now realized that I was not being entirely truthful. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 14:51, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
- Done -- zzuuzz (talk) 14:56, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
Restore Karamot Ullah Biplob
Please restore Karamot Ullah Biplob article, Now I am working on this. I want to solve this copyright issue and I also told this in talk page. But an admin already delete this article. Now, I request you to restore this article for only next 1 hour. After 1 hour if this article has copyvio issue, you will delete this. I hope I could solve this issue.-Shahadat Hossain (talk) 15:09, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
- @শাহাদাত সায়েম: We have to leave the revisions that had copyright violations deleted.
- If you're going to write an article about anyone or anything, here are the steps you should follow:
- 1) Choose a topic whose notability is attested by discussions of it in several reliable independent sources.
- 2) Gather as many professionally-published mainstream academic or journalistic sources you can find.
- 3) Focus on just the ones that are not dependent upon or affiliated with the subject, but still specifically about the subject and providing in-depth coverage (not passing mentions). If you do not have at least three such sources, the subject is not yet notable and trying to write an article at this point will only fail.
- 4) Summarize those sources from step 2, adding citations at the end of them. You'll want to do this in a program with little/no formatting, like Microsoft Notepad or Notepad++, and not in something like Microsoft Word or LibreOffice Writer.
- 5) Combine overlapping summaries (without arriving at new statements that no individual source supports) where possible, repeating citations as needed.
- 6) Paraphrase the whole thing just to be extra sure you've avoided any copyright violations or plagiarism.
- 7) Use the Article wizard to post this draft and wait for approval.
- 8) Expand the article using sources you put aside in step 2 (but make sure they don't make up more than half the sources for the article, and make sure that affiliated sources don't make up more than half of that).
- Doing something besides those steps typically results in the article not being approved, or even in its deletion. Ian.thomson (talk) 15:10, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
- @Ian.thomson: I know that, And now I request you to restore it for give me a change to solve this issue in this article.-Shahadat Hossain (talk) 15:17, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
- You can restore it at my user sub page. Thanks-Shahadat Hossain (talk) 15:20, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
- @শাহাদাত সায়েম: It looks like you do not seem to understand: we can not restore material that violates copyright, even if you plan to fix it. The revisions that violate copyright must stay deleted. You need to start over, following the instructions I have given you. Ian.thomson (talk) 16:00, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
If there is anyone who knows what good reliable sources are for wrestling articles, can you watch the above page? I've put it under full-protection for a few hours as there is an edit war going on about is he or isn't he dead. My lack of knowledge of the subject area makes it difficult to assess what sources are ok and what are tabloid or fan-zine level. Nthep (talk) 18:26, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
- The problem is that some people cite a tweet to support he's dead but don't put it in the article, while others want to wait until there is an RS that states it. Recently people tweeted that Brickhouse Brown had died, which he had not (yet), which is probably why a few people are gun shy on putting it in the article until there is something more firm than "Dave Metzer Tweeted it". I will keep an eye out for a good source to support the claim and hopefully put this to rest. MPJ-DK 18:34, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
- @MPJ-DK: Thanks, so far I'm seeing Metzer (who he?) tweeted it and two websites are reporting the tweet but nothing more solid than that. Nthep (talk) 18:37, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
- Meltzer reports on wrestling and MMA, "industry expert" and if reported on his website would count as a reliable source, but one tweet is too soon to put it down as definitite. MPJ-DK 18:40, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
- @MPJ-DK: Thanks, so far I'm seeing Metzer (who he?) tweeted it and two websites are reporting the tweet but nothing more solid than that. Nthep (talk) 18:37, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
- @Nthep and MPJ-DK: The Wrap, a subsidiary of MSN.com, is reporting it. Based on text in this article ("according to several reports," "Representatives for the Lawler family did not immediately respond to TheWrap's request for comment," etc.), they've got active professionals working on the story and are not just relying on Dave Meltzer's social media, TMZ, Wikipedia, or whatever else. 2602:306:BC31:4AA0:A006:9205:E961:82CD (talk) 19:19, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
- Minor clarification: The Wrap isn't a subsidiary of MSN. It appears MSN syndicates material from them. In any event, they're not a tabloid or anything like that. Trivialist (talk) 19:40, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
AfD's about recently dead BLP subjects
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This is time sensitive.
- Ad Orientem (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- Randykitty (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- Simegnew Bekele (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Chiyo Miyako (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
I am requesting admin intervention in these two AfD's. The mere nomination and placement of a deletion tag at the top of these articles is a violation of the basic tenet on which WP:BLP policy is based on, a respect for human dignity. The Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees resolved in April 2009, among other things, what is shown below (emphasis mine):[13]
The Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees urges the global Wikimedia community to uphold and strengthen our commitment to high-quality, accurate information, by: ... 2. Taking human dignity and respect for personal privacy into account when adding or removing information, especially in articles of ephemeral or marginal interest.
Please close these discussions to be reopened at a later date. One of these people is likely not even buried yet and we having esoteric discussions about notability, completely insensitive to their families and friends.
Imagine if your grandma just died, you go to her Wikipedia page, which has been there since 2016, and see a bright red deletion notice. You follow the link on it and find a bunch of strangers talking about how she accomplished nothing notable in her 117-year life. This is insensitive to basic human dignity.
The world will not end if we wait a couple of months before having a discussion to delete. If we continue this behaviour, it is to the detriment of this project's reception in the public. These people are not WP:PUBLICFIGUREs.--- Coffeeandcrumbs 18:35, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
- PS: To understand what I am talking about, Google "Chiyo Miyako" and click on the Wikipedia link shown. This is the experience we are giving our readers.--- Coffeeandcrumbs 18:49, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
- Unfortunately, the fly in the ointment here is - what if someone creates an article on a non-notable (or borderline notable) person purely based on the coverage of their death? This happens more than you;d think, and we've had it a number of times at Recent Deaths. Are you suggesting that a non-notable person should get a free pass on an article for a few months just because they've just died? Black Kite (talk) 19:30, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
- I can understand the problem with recently created pages like Simegnew Bekele But those are not indexed on Google. I more concerned with pages like Chiyo Miyako that have been around for years. The recourse I am suggesting is a moratorium on AfDs on BLP's that are older than 90 days.--- Coffeeandcrumbs 20:21, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
- I'm not 100% sure what admins can do about this issue. If there's a dignity/personal privacy issue, then maybe a WP:RFC is the way to go. However, they tend to drag on, waste lots of time for everyone, and rarely come to a conclusion that has unanimous support. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 19:36, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
- Yes, I cannot do that without first discussing the issue in a public forum. I am fully aware I cannot mitigate the damage already done. In a way, I am creating a paper trail for just that exact RFC. If I can demonstrate that even an Admin cannot intercede in a situation like this, then an RFC discussion on change WP:BLP to include a clause protecting pages older than 90 days from AfD and PROD for at least 90 days after the death of the subject.--- Coffeeandcrumbs 20:21, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
- First I deeply regret any emotional distress that might arise from deletion proceedings for articles about recently deceased individuals. That said, this is an encyclopedia, not a memorial. As I am reading the OP's statement, it is being suggested that we should allow articles to be created about non-notable figures and that they should be permitted to remain here for a period of time out of sensitivity to those in mourning. Again, expressing my hope that we are not causing undue distress, I must strongly disagree with the proposal. We are already suffering from a constant creation of articles about people and events of borderline, or in some cases negligible notability in the wake of sensationalized current and often transient news coverage. This is all symptomatic of our pervasive bias towards WP:Recentism. Rather than giving leeway towards articles created in the immediate aftermath of, or even during events, or the deaths of persons who gain some short burst of news coverage, I would prefer that we tighten our standards. With some commonsense exceptions where no reasonable person could doubt the long term significance of the subject, I would prefer a 3-5 day moratorium on the creation of articles about current events (and deaths) where the long term notability is not crystal clear. Regarding the nomination of Simegnew Bekele for deletion I have little to add to my statement at the AfD. I believe the subject does not meet our our guidelines for inclusion in a stand alone article. Coverage of the subject is almost entirely in relation to his death, and to the extent that he may have been a public face of a project that probably is notable, I would suggest that is where any mention of him belongs. -Ad Orientem (talk) 20:29, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
RFC on AfD's about recently dead BLP subjects
— Preceding unsigned comment added by Coffeeandcrumbs (talk • contribs) 22:11, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
Blocked KasparBot
I have blocked KasparBot, after several requests to adapt the code for operation on en.wikipedia. Consensus was reached that parameters in {{Authority control}} that were set to blank ('<param>='; no content) would be used to suppress display (Template_talk:Authority_control#Original_suppression_proposal; User:Tom.Reding implemented that feature).
Diffs:
- diff to suppress value by User:Nikkimaria
- diff KasparBot removing parameter again.
Remarks/'warnings':
- User_talk:T.seppelt#Empty_parameters_and_Kasparbot (Bot talkpage redirects to operator talkpage)
- de:Benutzer_Diskussion:T.seppelt#Kasparbot_on_en
Will place notices on talkpages. --Dirk Beetstra T C 05:21, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
- KasparBot (talk · contribs)
- As I mentioned during earlier discussion, relying on an empty parameter value (|MBA=) was not a good idea. It should have been |MBA=none, although I don't know what the bot would have done with that. Johnuniq (talk) 05:48, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
- I don't know which solution is the best one (I foresee problems with all of them - 'MBA=none' would suggest that there is no MBA where editors would then correct it to the one they found; 'MBA=' will likely result in editors filling in the 'empty' parameter .. 'suppress=MBA' is going to be unhandleable). Anyway, this is tangential to the discussion here, I have left notices to T.seppelt over a month ago and 3 weeks ago, and the operator has not responded (or even edited on their home wiki). --Dirk Beetstra T C 06:41, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
Deceased Wikipedian
I've sadly found out that User:Markhurd passed away in September 2017. Could an administrator do the required actions? Thanks. Bidgee (talk) 12:22, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
- Has been done - the user page is fully protected and user rights have been removed. Per WP:DWG that's it. Hut 8.5 18:25, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
- Sorry, I should have done this at the time. Guy (Help!) 13:36, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
Interface administrators
I have started a discussion about the new interface administrator user group at WP:VPM#RFC: Interface administrators and transition. Please take a moment to review and/or comment. --Izno (talk) 14:44, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
Please also see Wikipedia talk:Interface administrators . Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 20:10, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
Standard Offer appeal by User:Towns Hill
Unanimously opposed. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 12:31, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I am bringing forward, for community review, a Standard Offer appeal by User:Towns Hill. I have re-enabled their talk page for the sole purpose of answering community questions that may be asked during this review. The investigation page is at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Faizan/Archive. Checkuser @Ponyo: has been consulted and he has agreed to this review and has also checked the account.
The appellant says: "It has been a year now since I last used a sock [14]. I want to apply under WP:STANDARD OFFER. I believe I can yet be and prove myself a decent, respectable and productive editor who can improve this website?s output in both quality and output. Despite my editing history I had extensive readings into and citations to scholarly sources. Given this chance I believe I will improve the encyclopedia's faithfulness to scholarship.
I initially want to confine myself to subjects and articles related to Islam and Sufism such as Tawassul and Mawlid. Eventually I want to appeal my ARBIPA topic ban so I can one day return to editing the Kashmir articles."
The community will see, in the investigation report, several IPs that are marked as 'Suspected sockpuppets'. I queried this with Towns Hill who responded: "The last IP I used is this one. [15] I got it oversighted on May 8 this year. I think it was @Primefac: who sent me the confirmation email when the IP's contributions were oversighted. The rest of the IPs listed were not mine. If they were I would own up to them in my standard offer application since they are all from at least 6 months ago"
I have no position on this appeal. Just Chilling (talk) 01:08, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
- Strongly oppose See this. If this is the case, TH hacked an account, and that beyond a shadow of a doubt is a deal breaker for me. RickinBaltimore (talk) 01:16, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose when applying for the standard offer it is incumbent upon the person asking for it to convince the community that the unknown potential for good outweighs the known potential for disruption. I don’t see that here. TonyBallioni (talk) 01:46, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
- Strong oppose - Aren't you supposed to request unblock through your main account which was Faizan (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)? We don't grant unblock requests to sock puppets. "I want to appeal my ARBIPA topic ban so I can one day return to editing the Kashmir articles", that would be a nightmare. As mentioned on this SPI, whoever reads this request should know of this recent incident because there is much suspicion that this account continues to make edits on Wikipedia through suspicious accounts and IP addresses, targeting same articles, restoring same edits because of which he was topic banned and later blocked for sock puppetry when he was restoring the same edits through confirmed sock puppets. I see no reason to grant unblock. This account had been a totally net negative from the beginning and even after being blocked for sockpuppetry he was engaging in off wiki canvassing to get his opponents blocked (User talk:Towns Hill#Re: Your email). Lorstaking (talk) 02:17, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
- @Lorstaking: see RickinBaltimore's link. Faizan is deceased; Towns Hill hacked the account in 2017. ansh666 03:30, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
- People say anything when they want to get unblocked. Why it took Faizan months to come up with such unconvincing theory? He had many warnings and general notifications on his talk page before he was blocked. It is doubtful that he would wake up only after he was notified about the block and come here to claim he was hacked. I sense there was significant account sharing, but that cannot be construed as "hacking" since "hacking" is operating other's account without consent. Lorstaking (talk) 03:42, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
- Considering he is dead now and there appears to be a living person behind the account making this appeal, I would say it’s fairly likely that they are not the same people (and please don’t respond to this if you are going to claim that other trusted Wikimedians are lying about his death.) TonyBallioni (talk) 04:50, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
- At this moment, Towns Hill is tagged as a sock Faizan per user page[16] and socks are not unblocked per the policy (WP:SOCK#Blocking). There was no account hacking since "Faizan" account has edited from both countries, Pakisan and Australia,[17][18] during the same period. Towns Hill resides in Australia per his userpage[19] and per his admission that he used this IP. If there was any account "hacking" then the CU could identify it. This is a case of account sharing and Towns Hill should better spend some time proving how his account has no relation with Faizan before requesting unblock. The Faizan account tried enough to prove otherwise during those on-wiki unblock requests as well as UTRS appeals (that I can't see) but none of them were successful.[20] Lorstaking (talk) 05:25, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
- Not being unblocked has more to do with the fact that there was no way for them to verify their identity. Policy is to not unblock under any circumstances in that case, and has nothing to do with a presumption of guilt. There is no way without a CU to tell where someone is editing from, and the check resulting in the block didn't seem to find anything unusual (i.e. the edits in the time range probably all matched Towns Hill). I won't comment on the UTRS appeal except to say that it didn't include any useful information. ansh666 07:09, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose Clicking through the link provided by RickinBaltimore, I think we should turn this request down. The hack claim is extremely plausible (the timeline is troubling) and is, as RickinBaltimore says, a dealbreaker. --regentspark (comment) 02:55, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose per RickinBaltimore. That's not okay at all. ansh666 03:30, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
- 'Above discussion shows concerns with the ownership of User:Faizan and much of discussion is about the alleged hacking and confirmed sock puppetry related to that account. None of the statements in unblock request have addressed it. Oppose. Accesscrawl (talk) 06:24, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
- Comment-What is TownHill's comment about Faizan account at the UTRS ticket?∯WBGconverse 07:48, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
- Comment by Towns Hill I realise that my past behaviour was not the best. I am not exactly proud of that. But I do have thousands of bytes worth of verifiable content to my name. The quality of my contributions were good. I realise that my behaviour of edit warring and socking was bad. I want to make a fresh start with my good side only this time. I understand some people doubt my application because of the Faizan incident. Faizan is now deceased and I don't want to dwell on his story too much out of respect for the deceased but his hacking claim was not the truth. I had been recruited (and rejected) at various times by Faizan, Kautilya3 and others for meat puppetry and in Faizan's case he told me to make edits from his own account. I can share these users' emails to me with admins in private if they wish to verify what I am saying. I will share this non-public information of other users only privately. Those days of allowing myself to be used as others' meat and using socks myself and edit warring were not exactly my best days. I am not proud of it. But I don't think this should be held against me forever. I do believe I should be given another chance. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Towns Hill (talk • contribs) 18:04, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
- As the blocking administrator, I am not happy that I wasn't even notified of this discussion or Ponyo's consent to it (Ponyo is a "she" btw). Beyond that, one of the things that disturbs me about this unblock request is TH's most recent comment above where they claim other users (some not named), including one existing editor, Kautilya3, "recruited" them. For that reason alone, I oppose.--Bbb23 (talk) 13:44, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose I don't see anything that would give me cause to trust this user again. The whole Faizan thing leaves a sour taste in the mouth; whether he was "invited" to use Faizan's account or not, that's a gross and knowing breach of Wikipedia's terms of use. Yunshui 雲水 13:54, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
- Comment My only involvement in this request was to respond to a CU request at UTRS where I noted that the IP used by Towns Hill to submit their appeal had not been used since January 2018 and that Just Chilling could bring the block here for a standard offer review if they chose to do so. I imagine not notifying the blocking admin of the request was just an oversight.--Jezebel's Ponyobons mots 15:58, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
- @Ponyo: Ha! It was a deep dark nefarious conspiracy between you and Just Chilling.--Bbb23 (talk) 16:48, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
- And we would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!--Jezebel's Ponyobons mots 16:57, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose. Per everyone above. Alex Shih (talk) 16:40, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose -TH needs to address the elephant in the room first, Like the above I don't trust this user at all. (I'll also add if the hacking thing is true then TH should pretty much be banned for life). –Davey2010Talk 16:51, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose--As Davey2010 told.∯WBGconverse 12:10, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
- Also, the assertions of being
recruited-for-editing
is seriously bizarre and needs to be dealt with by the functionaries.Either TH is speaking the truth (which shall lead to a site-ban of both him and K3) or he is alone fabricating things, which shall again lead to a ban of his. - I would have trashed the claims, given that I personally hold K3 in high-repute.But, the entire Faizan-TownHill sockpuppetry is downright confusing and it's highly doubtful as to whom of the two (Faizan or TH) spoke the truth.∯WBGconverse 12:10, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
- Also, the assertions of being
- The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Someone kindly delete this. I can't even load the page to add a speedy deletion tag. GMGtalk 14:27, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
- Also apparently 1,000,000_Digits_of_Pi. GMGtalk 14:28, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
- And 100,000 Digits of Pi as well. RickinBaltimore (talk) 14:29, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
- Could we have a slightly condensed version, say 33,000 Digits of Pi? Martinevans123 (talk) 14:34, 31 July 2018 (UTC) .... would probably still be a lot shorter than User talk:EEng.
- And 100,000 Digits of Pi as well. RickinBaltimore (talk) 14:29, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
...and might we consider blocking, or at least warning, User:TheProgrammerBoy (formerly WindoRant) who created both of them? --MelanieN (talk) 14:46, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
- @MelanieN: I warned the user. ~ Abelmoschus Esculentus (talk to me) 14:51, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
- And I blocked them.--Bbb23 (talk) 15:19, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
- I think if you're going to do that you could at least put in some more effort. That page was only about 20% longer than List of compositions by Franz Schubert. Hut 8.5 18:28, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
- Could we get create protection? The first two are just asking for trouble and the third was also an article in 2015. Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 18:33, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
- Do not protect, please. A similar page (existing as a redirect) was kept at RFD, see Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2012 November 4#Longest Wikipedia Article. – Uanfala (talk) 18:42, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
- I have redirected Longest Page in Wikipedia, but what do you think about the Pi articles? Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 18:47, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
- I have redirected them to Pi#Modern_quest_for_more_digits where there is information on when that many digits of pi were reached.. Galobtter (pingó mió) 18:55, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
- Though I thought this was a reference to the only page that can be seen from space. RickinBaltimore (talk) 19:00, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
- These have tended to split opinions at RfD: a nomination in 2014 resulted in "keep", but the oucome of a similar discussion three years later was "delete". – Uanfala (talk) 19:05, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
- I have redirected them to Pi#Modern_quest_for_more_digits where there is information on when that many digits of pi were reached.. Galobtter (pingó mió) 18:55, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
- @Uanfala and Emir of Wikipedia: the only reason Longest Wikipedia Article was kept is that Special:Longpages used to be there for a short time in 2005, so it ostensibly protects against linkrot (a horrible reason, IMO, but it is what it is). There is no such history regarding Longest Page in Wikipedia, so I R2'd it. ansh666 00:42, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
- This wasn't the only reason the redirect was kept at RfD. As for the one you've just speedied, I don't think it should have been speedied: there was a comment in the previous discussion that R2 doesn't apply to these redirects, but more substantially, this one is unlikely to gain consensus for deletion if nominated at RfD now. – Uanfala (talk) 07:21, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
- I have redirected Longest Page in Wikipedia, but what do you think about the Pi articles? Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 18:47, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
- Do not protect, please. A similar page (existing as a redirect) was kept at RFD, see Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2012 November 4#Longest Wikipedia Article. – Uanfala (talk) 18:42, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
- Can we just get a general system protection against the creation (or saving) of pages of that size? I can't see any legitimate reason for having any. bd2412 T 19:07, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
- What about user talk pages that are so large, among other issues? Sir Joseph (talk) 19:09, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
- Same. There's no good reason that user talk pages should be allowed to get so large that their size itself impedes communication with the user. bd2412 T 20:19, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
- There's something related in the 2 MB limit to the "post-expand include size" of a page, where any parts of the page beyond this limit don't get displayed. – Uanfala (talk) 19:13, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
- What about user talk pages that are so large, among other issues? Sir Joseph (talk) 19:09, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
- (Non-administrator comment) There's a lot of pages on the Special:Longpages list that could use editing attention; I removed a bunch of unsourced "results" from Minuta slavy supposedly about 2019 and 2020 TV shows, and Forcade should probably be turned into a set-index article. power~enwiki (π, ν) 01:18, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
- Could somebody do something about User talk:Arunram...with 675 threads and with a total size of 944.7kB(approximately) it should be awarded the prize for the Longest Talk Page on the planet. — FR + 10:50, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
A attempt to overrule our BLP policy with an RfC?
See discussion and links at Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons#Musk part 2: can an An RfC overrule our BLP policy?
May I request that an administrator evaluate whether I am right about this being a BLP violation? --Guy Macon (talk) 19:56, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
- The link is Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard#Musk_part_2:_can_an_An_RfC_overrule_our_BLP_policy?. --Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 19:58, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
- You're wrong. I've said the same thing at BLPN. --NeilN talk to me 20:13, 31 July 2018 (UTC) @Guy Macon: I messed up the ping. --NeilN talk to me 20:15, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
- I don't see anything resembling overruling our BLP policy. More than likely, this is a case of WP:CRYBLP. - MrX 🖋 20:17, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
- OK, Ill check that out. I still have no idea what the supposed BLP vio is.- MrX 🖋 20:13, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
"I do believe that associating an otherwise non notable individual with pedophilia, no matter how carefully you specify that the accusations are without merit, can be incredibly harmful. And I don't think that simply omitting the name does enough to protect him, given the ease of searching on 'musk pedo diver' --Guy Macon 06:57, 19 July 2018 (UTC)[21]
"Agreed, in fact the situation is astonishingly obvious.... if notable person A says non-notable person B is a pedophile (later withdrawn), repeating the slur throws mud at B, some of which would stick. It could be argued that the effect of this article would be negligible but that is no reason for us to do something bad. Also, this article will exist for many years when the name of B would be totally irrelevant and the current news reports will have been forgotten. If the wording is kept, this article would still cause some readers to think there just might be something behind the attack." ---Johnuniq 07:31, 19 July 2018 (UTC)[22]
"I've removed it as a blatant BLP violation. The BLP is written precisely to protect living individuals against this sort of smear. If someone wants to re-write it without including the diver's name, that would be at least compliant with the policy. However its tabloid gossip. WP:NOTNEWS. (Also no WWGB, I am under no obligation to re-write it myself to remove the offending material. It would need to be substantially re-written and I am not interested in enabling gossip. The onus is on those who wish to include the information to do the legwork to make it compliant with out policies.)" --Only in death does duty end 10:00, 30 July 2018 (UTC)[23][24]
"Its flatly impossible to cover this without Identifying either directly or indirectly through linking to the material. Since the diver is a non-notable non-public figure, I am not satisfied after looking at the various sources that it is possible to comply with the BLP and cover this while protecting the diver. BLP applies regardless of if the person is explicitly named if they can be easily identified. Now you need to gain consensus to include the material, do not replace it again." --Only in death does duty end 19:25, 30 July 2018 (UTC)[25]
"I previously reported it at Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard#False claims about the diver who got into a twitter fight with Elon Musk. The subsequent comments on that page made it clear that this is an unambiguous BLP violation to be removed on sight, and that the removals are exempt from our edit warring rules." Guy Macon 20:03, 30 July 2018[26]
Also see:
- Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard#False claims about the diver who got into a twitter fight with Elon Musk
- Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard#Musk part 2: can an An RfC overrule our BLP policy?
--Guy Macon (talk) 20:46, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
- Johnuniq hit it on the head with their RFC comment: "There is no reason for Wikipedia to name the person. It is fine to link to references which include all the details, if the material is found to satisfy WP:DUE as far as long-term significance for Musk is concerned." No one is explicitly arguing in the RFC that the other person's name appear in the article. Quite the opposite. --NeilN talk to me 20:56, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
- That's what this is about? For crying out loud—leave the non-notable person's name out. Problem solved. Why the hysteria? This reminds me of the religion in infobox hysteria, which I recall also involved Guy Macon.- MrX 🖋 21:07, 31 July 2018 (UTC)