:*The problem with that is this is how you feel, it cant explain the widespread worldwide coverage. - [[User:Knowledgekid87|Knowledgekid87]] ([[User talk:Knowledgekid87|talk]]) 17:43, 19 June 2017 (UTC)
:*The problem with that is this is how you feel, it cant explain the widespread worldwide coverage. - [[User:Knowledgekid87|Knowledgekid87]] ([[User talk:Knowledgekid87|talk]]) 17:43, 19 June 2017 (UTC)
*'''Support'''. This was a terrorist, politically-motivated attack. Having one or zero deaths hasn't stopped other attacks from being posted, like [[2017 Congressional baseball shooting]] where the only death (to date) was the perpetrator. [[User:Funcrunch|Funcrunch]] ([[User talk:Funcrunch|talk]]) 18:17, 19 June 2017 (UTC)
*'''Support'''. This was a terrorist, politically-motivated attack. Having one or zero deaths hasn't stopped other attacks from being posted, like [[2017 Congressional baseball shooting]] where the only death (to date) was the perpetrator. [[User:Funcrunch|Funcrunch]] ([[User talk:Funcrunch|talk]]) 18:17, 19 June 2017 (UTC)
*'''Strong Oppose''', the rationale "but this time it happened in X!!!" is exactly the kind of bias we usually rail against here. We need to be more conscious of proximity bias; if you live in the UK, sure it's going to seem like a huge story. But the actual facts are not spectacular. [[User:GreatCaesarsGhost|GreatCaesarsGhost]] ([[User talk:GreatCaesarsGhost|talk]]) 19:00, 19 June 2017 (UTC)
This candidates page is integrated with the daily pages of Portal:Current events. A light green header appears under each daily section - it includes transcluded Portal:Current events items for that day. You can discuss ITN candidates under the header.
Hurricane Beryl, the earliest-recorded Category 5 Atlantic hurricane in a calendar year, leaves at least 15 people dead in the Caribbean, Venezuela, and the United States.
Blurbs are one-sentence summaries of the news story.
Altblurbs, labelled alt1, alt2, etc., are alternative suggestions to cover the same story.
A target article, bolded in text, is the focus of the story. Each blurb must have at least one such article, but you may also link non-target articles.
Articles in the Ongoing line describe events getting continuous coverage.
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Nomination steps
Make sure the item you want to nominate has an article that meets our minimum requirements and contains reliable coverage of a current event you want to create a blurb about. We will not post about events described in an article that fails our quality standards.
Find the correct section below for the date of the event (not the date nominated). Do not add sections for new dates manually - a bot does that for us each day at midnight (UTC).
Create a level 4 header with the article name (==== Your article here ====). Add (RD) or (Ongoing) if appropriate.
Then paste the {{ITN candidate}} template with its parameters and fill them in. The news source should be reliable, support your nomination and be in the article. Write your blurb in simple present tense. Below the template, briefly explain why we should post that event. After that, save your edit. Your nomination is ready!
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The better your article's quality, the better it covers the event and the wider its perceived significance (see WP:ITNSIGNIF for details), the better your chances of getting the blurb posted.
When the article is ready, updated and there is consensus to post, you can mark the item as (Ready). Remove that wording if you feel the article fails any of these necessary criteria.
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Voicing an opinion on an item
Format your comment to contain "support" or "oppose", and include a rationale for your choice. In particular, address the notability of the event, the quality of the article, and whether it has been updated.
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Add simple "support!" or "oppose!" votes without including your reasons. Similarly, curt replies such as "who?", "meh", or "duh!" are not helpful. A vote without reasoning means little for us, please elaborate yourself.
Oppose an item just because the event is only relating to a single country, or failing to relate to one. We post a lot of such content, so these comments are generally unproductive.
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Comment on a story without first reading the relevant article(s).
A car carrying firearms and gas bottles deliberately rammed a police vehicle on the Champs-Élysées in Paris, France, subsequently bursting into flames. The driver, who was on a security watchlist, was shot dead. (CNN)
After yesterday's downing of a SyrianSu-22 jet, Russia shuts down a deconfliction channel and says it will follow any aircraft west of the Euphrates as a target. (PBS)
Personal information of about 200 million U.S. citizens has been exposed on the Internet since January when unsecured files were uploaded by Republican contractor Deep Root Analytics. The data, available via publicly accessible providers such as Amazon Web Services, included birth dates, home addresses, telephone numbers, religious affiliations, ethnicities, and political views. The problem was discovered by an UpGuard analyst. (BBC)(Salon)
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Obviously this is a developing story/incident but if it turns out to be terrorism and especially if there are fatalities, I would expect this will end up being posted. For now I suggest waiting until we know a bit more before posting. Ad Orientem (talk) 03:55, 19 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Wait I think we should wait until more information on the incident has been confirmed or updated such as if this was actually and incident or attack. Must await for more information to come in. Afterwards Support from me. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 04:11, 19 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support Now clear this is a significant incident attracting international attention and different reactions from government and society. AusLondonder (talk) 05:04, 19 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Wait. The impression I am getting from early reports is that this was a potential lone wolf terrorist attack targetting Muslims. If this is the case then clearly this is huge news worthy of posting, given the rarity of us posting stories where Muslims were not only victims within an indiscriminately targetted group, but specifically the targets, of terrorism. If this is not the case then it's just a man driving into a group of people with a tragic outcome. StillWaitingForConnection (talk) 05:20, 19 June 2017 (UTC) Switched to support StillWaitingForConnection (talk) 15:01, 19 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - A part of me wonders whether we'll eventually have a "yet another terrorist attack in the UK?" kind of reaction similar to what happens with US shootings. Leaning towards support regardless, given the wide coverage. Banedon (talk) 05:53, 19 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support there's nothing much to wait for. One dead, nearly a dozen injured, a man shouting "kill all Muslims" arrested, no-one else suspected, no other crimes to report, article is more than adequate. The Rambling Man (talk) 07:06, 19 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support. A racially (or religiously)-motivated terrorist in London by a white man against Muslims - there will be a massive amount of attention on how the government and others deal with this compared to how they've have dealt with previous attacks. This is absolutely significant, and the reports are stable enough now to post imo. Thryduulf (talk) 07:18, 19 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support. I really wish we had decent enough coverage of similar incidents outside Europe to be able to post those and avoid continuing the Europe/US ITN monopoly; the protests in East India, and the bomb in Colombia, come to mind. But that is no reason to ignore this incident. Decent article. Vanamonde (talk) 07:21, 19 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose The article is not great, and contains little more information than what can be gleaned from headlines. A full third of the wordcount is used in the "Reactions" section, even more than is dedicated to describing the event itself. There really needs to be more to this article before it goes up.128.214.69.166 (talk) 08:48, 19 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I know that the news media likes to hype terrorist/hate crimes, but with only one dead, I don't see this attack as particularly important. AQFK (talk) 12:15, 19 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - Although it's crass irony, I can see what CosmicAdventure is driving at (no pun intended). This is becoming a frequently common occurrence in Western Europe; almost approaching the level of mass shootings in the USA. We're going to have to start applying more discretion to posting these stories.--WaltCip (talk) 12:21, 19 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I completely agree, but the motive behind this one in my opinion makes it too difficult to do it this time. That this was a terrorist attack specifically targetting non-Muslims overrides what I would otherwise agree is a justifiable reason to oppose, on the basis that while we're posting too many UK terror attacks. But I can't recall us ever posting a terrorist attack specifically targetting Muslims, anywhere, relative to the frequency with which it might happen. Certainly if I'm mistaken it's extremely rare that we do. StillWaitingForConnection (talk) 15:04, 19 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support. What is important is not the number of dead (it's reported that the person who died at the scene was already receiving first aid before the attack so it may be unrelated) but the apparently deliberate targeting of Muslims, which is a new development. The article is adequate. (And can I say it's a sad state of affairs when we need a disambiguation page for "June 2017 London attack.")--Pawnkingthree (talk) 12:24, 19 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. I appreciate the various arguments that have been put forward but we have posted quite a few UK-based stories on ITN lately. A disproportionately high number, it seems. At the same time, I don't necessarily think that this is a major incident (only one fatality, for instance) and must ask, had this event happened in another, perhaps developing country, would we be reporting on it here? I also disagree with the statement that the deliberate attacking of Muslims is a new development in Britain; it isn't, there have been a wide range of attacks on mosques, Muslims, and those (mistakenly) believed to be Muslims in the UK during this century. Midnightblueowl (talk) 13:08, 19 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support A racially motivated attack as this appears to be is likely going to be ITN regardless of whether it happened, UK, US, or wherenot, and as it seems this appears connected as a reaction to the previous 3 terrorist events in UK, highlights it more. Article is fine (in a previous version, I think it had unnecessarily language about the questionable past of the mosque but that's been removed save for a specific reaction comment). --MASEM (t) 13:14, 19 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Strong oppose Not a major incident. It happened in London and apparently we're considering posting it here. If it happened in Mogadishu, would we be having the same conversation? We might not even have heard about it. Only one person died; not significant.Zigzig20s (talk) 13:23, 19 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
But it wouldn't. My point is that we should be careful and not become a parody of the globalized elite that some of us are. This is not a major incident.Zigzig20s (talk) 14:14, 19 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
If this had only made a side column on a few major news websites then yes I would agree with you. This story though has made it to the front on multiple sources. I don't think I am going to change your mind but as I said in the news means in the news and this is defiantly front and center. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 14:47, 19 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Kim Kardashian gets many headlines too. That's not an argument, I'm sorry. No one, or potentially only one person, died. Not a major incident.Zigzig20s (talk) 18:09, 19 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose/wait According to the BBC [1], it isn't yet even established that the sole casualty died from the attack as he was already being given first aid on the ground before being run over. The police will now establish a causality link between it. Frankly, one possible casualty is not notable enough for the mainpage, but I could see it becoming more important if the attacker for example is a part of some far-right group for example. But that depends on when the police is releasing information on the attacker. --Pudeo (talk) 13:32, 19 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Your comments immediately above are in and of themselves identity politics. Now, I have no problem with that, except that opposition to the idea is fundamental to your opposition of opposing this story. It completely undermines the basis of your argument. StillWaitingForConnection (talk) 15:00, 19 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support I cant believe there are editors here saying that this isn't a terrorist attack, this runs against everything that has been in the reliable sources. As far as a death count goes again what is the threshold for the number of people dead? Some of you cite this as a reason to oppose but this treads into a gray area... is a story approved for ITN with 5 deaths?.... 10?.... 15? ... 20+? It isn't a good idea/factor in my opinion. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 13:42, 19 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
It's a terrorist attack and a major incident in the eyes of the authorities, who I would argue are in a better place to make such judgments than the armchair pundits around here.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 13:49, 19 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose: if this had happened in Africa, Asia or South America, there wouldn't even be an article - let alone a debate about whether or not to feature it on the main page. Jim Michael (talk) 14:48, 19 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Fact is, it did not happen in Africa, Asia, or South America. This occurred in Europe, which is generally thought of as having more capable security forces and where these incidents used to be rare. European incidents also have a higher quality and quantity of news coverage that allows for creating better articles. I don't really see how your oppose is relevant. Mamyles (talk) 14:56, 19 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Weak support. I'm conscious of the fact that that there have been four terror attacks in England in 3 months and we have posted the other three, and I'm quite confident that I supported all three. It's a rate at which I do not think we would consider for any country other than the US, noting that the US has roughly 6 times the population. I have the integrity to point out that I'm conscious of the risk of inherent bias on my own part. I'm also conscious of the fact that the three terrorist attacks we posted all featured a significantly higher number of fatalities. I can therefore completely see how some might come to the conclusion that this incident does not cut the mustard.
However, the fact that this was a terrorist attack specifically targetted at Muslims to my knowledge sets it aside from any incident that we've actually posted. Some of the opponents make the point that attacks on Muslims are not as rare as is being portrayed. When was the last one we posted? Are we systemically under-representing the issue? Has there been a higher profile one than this of late? StillWaitingForConnection (talk) 14:59, 19 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support You do not get these kinds of incidents in London every other day, plus now clear the attack was politically motivated as "a response" to the London attack, and is being investigated by the Counter Terrorism Command. Taken in its context, this event is of major political significance, just as the Quebec City mosque shooting, which was also posted. Tachfin (talk) 15:41, 19 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Another attack? There are breaking news reports of an attack at a London underground station with multiple stab victims... WTH is going on over there? London is starting to sound like a downright dangerous place. -Ad Orientem (talk) 16:28, 19 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support - I distinctly remember a story with no fatalities getting posted due to political motivations. This is no different in my eyes. Stormy clouds (talk) 16:34, 19 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
It is the political motivations rather than the death toll which make this notable. That was my point - if a politically/religiously motivated attack with no fatalities gets posted on notability, this item is equally valid for inclusion (article quality assuming - and the article's fine). An attack in a major city is news all by itself - an attack targeting a specific religion is big news, and is suitable for ITN (see the aforementioned Quebec City mosque shooting). Also, please AGF, as I am not the only proponent of the WP:MINIMUMDEATHS rationale here. Besides, I am advocating actively against it here - I am in support. - Stormy clouds (talk) 17:34, 19 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Oppose, the rationale "but this time it happened in X!!!" is exactly the kind of bias we usually rail against here. We need to be more conscious of proximity bias; if you live in the UK, sure it's going to seem like a huge story. But the actual facts are not spectacular. GreatCaesarsGhost (talk) 19:00, 19 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Gunmen storm a popular tourist resort near the Malian capital, Bamako. At least two people are reportedly killed. Malian troops and France's Operation Barkhane counter-terrorist force are at the site. (BBC)
Voters in France return to the polls for the second round of a legislative election, with 573 of 577 seats in the National Assembly yet to be decided after the first round. (Bloomberg)
Six members of President Trump's Advisory Council on HIV/AIDS resign stating the administration doesn't have a strategy to address the epidemic, doesn't seek input from experts on HIV policy, supports legislation that would halt or reverse important gains made in the fight against this disease and would harm people living with HIV. (NBC News)(The Independent)(Newsweek)
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Nominator's comments: I will be the first to acknowledge that the article needs work. I'll do my best, but may require assistance in getting this up to snuff. Stormy clouds (talk) 17:21, 19 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Not strictly accurate to describe this as "men's golf" as qualification for the U.S. Open is technically open to all golfers. --LukeSurltc17:32, 19 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Comment No comment on the article yet, but this is an oddly worded blurb; we should just say "wins the most seats", "wins a majority", "is projected to win a majority" or something like that. "Gains the most seats" can be understood in many ways. Vanamonde (talk) 04:59, 19 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support complete and thorough article on ITNR subject. Added an altblurb. In English media the party is shortly referred to as En Marche, I removed the link to the Natl Assy as it's not needed for the blurb, and clarified that the election resulted in a simple majority. I don't think Macron's picture should be used, as it was just up on ITN and this particular election concerns his party and not directly himself, but I'll leave that decision to someone else.128.214.69.166 (talk) 09:12, 19 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I think we should use the word "majority" in the blurb, as "gains the most seats" only implies a plurality (En Marche has 308/577 or 350/577 if you include their coalition partners). A paragraph or two of reaction/analysis would be welcome. --LukeSurltc10:30, 19 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Nominator's comments: Exceptionally deadly wildfires for the region, at least 47 died on a single road when a fire overtook the area. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 13:11, 18 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support on significance, apparently the deadliest in Portugal since 1966. What is there is well referenced, but the article should really be expanded a bit before posting. Mjroots (talk) 13:42, 18 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support – Major story of global significance given the rising incidence of wildfires worldwide. High death toll may rise further. Sca (talk) 13:59, 18 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support – have looked at all pages in categories for 2015, 2016 and 2017, nothing appears to have come close to this in terms of death toll so I'm satisfied that this isn't the start of a slippery slope. Some of the articles I looked at did involve considerable damage to property, such as Fort McMurray and the 2015 Russian wildfires which also resulted in 33 fatalities – both were posted. No information yet on damage to buildings in this case, though one would assume given the death toll that it will be comparable. StillWaitingForConnection (talk) 14:19, 18 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's comments: cricket match finals between India and Pakistan are one of the most watched games in cricket history, viewed by billions of people worldwide. I guess This final is being live telecast in over 200 countries as per ICC. Saqib (talk) 11:53, 18 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment – would be nice to have something involving a team from outside EU or US/Canada featured on the page, and indeed something pleasant for a change. However as this is not ITNR I could not support this unless the prose update were significantly above average. I won't be on-wiki at the appropriate time, but for the benefit of the reviewing admin if the update is high-quality I would lend my support. StillWaitingForConnection (talk) 14:27, 18 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
For those who don't watch cricket, there are three major variants - Test, One Day Internationals and Twenty20. This particular competition is the one-day and comes behind the (ITNR) one-day World Cup in prominence. Fuebaey (talk) 18:30, 18 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support given that it's a major cricket tournament, and an international one. Additionally, an India vs Pakistan final is estimated to have 1.5 billion viewers which makes it larger in that respect than several football rivalries [2]. Mar4d (talk) 19:30, 18 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support the victory margin was the largest by any team in the final of an ICC ODI tournament.[1]Nauriya (Rendezvous) 2:59, 19 June 2017 (UTC)
Support on significance but the prose summary extensive enough yet - the India innings is only just acceptable quality for me, the Pakistan innings section is good prose but there needs to be more of it. Thryduulf (talk) 22:49, 18 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
At least one Afghan is killed and seven American soldiers wounded in an "insider attack" at Camp Shaheen, in the northern city of Mazar-i-Sharif. An earlier report that Americans had been killed is incorrect. The Taliban claims responsibility. (Reuters)(The New York Times)
The USS Fitzgerald, a United States Navy destroyer, collides with a merchant ship MV ACX Crystal off the coast of Japan at around 2:30 a.m. local time, with seven American sailors reported missing. The ship was taking on water and able to operate at limited propulsion. (CNN)
Four people are killed as intense rains and snowstorms hit central and southern Chile. About 3,000 people are homeless, and hundreds of thousands have lost power. (Reuters)
Wildfires in central Portugal kill at least 24 people and several firefighters are among 20 injured. The death toll so far is the largest due to a wildfire in Portugal since 1966. (BBC)
Minnesota State Patrol, after issuing three warnings, arrest 18 people who were blocking Interstate 94 in St. Paul. A peaceful protest started following Friday's acquittal of St. Anthony police officer Jeronimo Yanez, who was charged with manslaughter in the fatal shooting of Philando Castile. (CBS News)
Support I'd have said merge if the Tehran attacks blurb was still on ITN, but since it isn't, this is a natural update. Banedon (talk) 03:22, 19 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose purely on notability. The war on ISIS is well represented on ITN, as is Iranian foreign policy. This event is not categorically different than what happens over there on a daily basis. While this is (apparently) the first time that Iran has used ballistic missiles in this particular conflict, I don't think that's enough to clear the notability bar.128.214.69.166 (talk) 08:36, 19 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support* I think it is quite a remarkable development. First time Iran uses its ballistic precision missiles to target ISIS which has significant strategic military and political implications beyond revenging the victims of Tehran attacks, as in the message it sends to rivals in the region. And the comments by world leaders and analysts seem to be just coming up. I just added an "Analysis" section to the page to host these emerging reactions. Expectant of Light (talk) 15:54, 19 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - Iran had already intervened significantly in the conflict and had come into direct warfare with ISIL. No doubt an interesting development, but not ITN worthy in my eyes. Stormy clouds (talk) 17:44, 19 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
RD support, weak oppose on a blurb - Given the size and relatively tiny importance of Vanuatu in the world political picture, and that under Vanuatu's law that the MPs will elect a new president in the next few weeks and that will be a ITNR blurb (which we can then mention to replace Lonsdale), a blurb isn't really needed right now. --MASEM (t) 03:51, 17 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
RD only per Masem and I suggest that the blurb about his successor being chosen mention his death("After the death of President Lonsdale, the Parliament of Vanuatu elects......). 331dot (talk) 09:31, 17 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Oppose blurb - support RD Granted it's a small country but we are still talking about the death of an incumbent head of state which should merit a blurb. Unfortunately while the article quality is adequate, if barely, for RD; it does not rise to the quality expected for a blurb. -Ad Orientem (talk) 17:41, 17 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
U.S. President Donald Trump announces new restrictions on travel and business with Cuba, reversing policies of Cuban Thaw, implemented during the tenure of President Barack Obama. (CNN)
Jeronimo Yanez, the police officer previously accused of manslaughter and reckless discharge of a firearm at Philando Castile, is acquitted of all charges. (NBC News)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Oppose Whole Foods is known to have been struggling of late, this is not a surprising nor large buyout for the business realm. --MASEM (t) 20:22, 16 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not suggesting that the article speculate on its effects, but stating that those effects are the reason this merits posting. It's not speculation to see that Amazon's aggressive business practices and efforts as an heretofore online business to move into physical retail will have effects on retail as whole. 331dot (talk) 20:47, 16 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support Headlines like "The Amazon-Walmart Showdown That Explains the Modern Economy" and "Amazon-Whole Foods deal roils Wall St" tells me this story is a big deal (and it is). I let the business press and markets weigh in, rather than my narrow view of whats interesting or important to me. --CosmicAdventure (talk) 21:00, 16 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Oppose On the one hand there is an interesting backstory regarding the evolution of the retail industry. But in the grand scheme of things this is small potatoes and the money involved is chump change compared to what we usually look for in these kinds of stories/nominations. -Ad Orientem (talk) 21:22, 16 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support - very notable acquisition. An ITN placement will allow users to easily navigate to the relevant articles (one of the aims of the project). I feel it is elevated above normal acquisitions due to the notability of its participants. Stormy clouds (talk) 22:52, 16 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Whole Foods is a relatively small niche player, and a faltering one – due in part to its narrow selection and upscale pricing structure. We aren't here to 'allow' readers to read more about commercial enterprises. Sca (talk) 00:26, 17 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Abductive: Nothing to do with not liking it. Whole Foods' annual sales ($744 million) equate to 0.65 percent of U.S. leader Kroger's sales ($115 billion) and 1.2 percent of second-place Albertsons' sales ($58 billion). Translation: Whole Foods is a relatively small niche player. Sca (talk) 14:57, 17 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
My phrasing was incorrect - I meant to say that ItN facilitates users in finding articles that they will be looking for anyway due to their presence in the news. Both articles are updated, so we are ready to run on this issue. Stormy clouds (talk) 11:04, 17 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Secondary sources say that this deal is unusual and marks a profound change to Amazon's business model and to the future of US retail generally. US retail is, with 42 million workers and $4 trillion of economic activity, important. Abductive (reasoning) 03:37, 17 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I'm not well placed to judge how big a deal this for shoppers. The numbers seem sufficient to give it serious consideration and therefore it really falls down to how noticeable this would be on the high street. What I will say is that if Alt 2 were to be used then the current bolding seems wrong. StillWaitingForConnection (talk) 09:34, 17 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - for now, and I will not support until this deal actually happens. Also, please take note that reputable media sources are reporting that investors believe a rival bid is likely and that Whole Foods share prices rose above the Amazon.com offer price. So let's wait until the acquisition actually happens, which won't happen until the latter half of 2017 (according to today's Reuter's article that I just linked to in my comment here).. Christian Roess (talk) 16:13, 17 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Christian Roess: With this sort of event it is the announcement that usually gets more attention than the close of the transaction itself.(In this case, the markets have been affected by the announcement[3]) If we do nothing until the deal closes it will then be opposed on the grounds that it isn't in the news- but opposing now because it hasn't happened yet means there is a defacto prohibition against business related stories on ITN. We've tried to open up more to business stories recently due to this. A rival bid(likely resulting in a battle for who buys Whole Foods) would likely also merit posting as it too would affect the markets. 331dot (talk) 09:34, 18 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Based on what we tend to do with politics I would assume that the consensus would be to post when it's signed, sealed and delivered – as we did with the Taoiseach despite the announcement being the higher profile moment than the actual handover. That said, I think a discussion at WT:ITN would be appropriate, because the situation is a bit more murky with huge acquisitions.
In practise what I think we need to do is have the discussion at announcement time to judge the consensus on whether a deal cuts the mustard, but then only post when it's a done deal. This would mark a significant change from current practise. My suggestion to achieve this would be that when consensus is reached on an acquisition, it be added to WP:ITNR with a diff of that consensus being evaluated, so that we then don't fall into the trap of "oppose – stale" that has in the past frozen out acquisitions from being posted. When the deal is done, someone can nominate it as an ITNR and thus we're only judging quality rather than repeating the significance argument again? StillWaitingForConnection (talk) 14:43, 18 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support but with amended blurb - this is a huge deal ($13.4 billion) and is making waves throughout the market. WFM surged by 29.10% for example, while TGT went down by 5.14%. It's true however that this deal is less likely to go through than other such offers (per Christian Roess; in particular WFM is currently worth more than Amazon's offer price which is a red flag), hence I suggest posting but with alt blurb 3. Banedon (talk) 03:13, 19 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose You're telling me that I might be able to buy groceries on the internet? - me, 1999. The business angle on this is equally weak, and I wouldn't support this even if the deal is struck as it is proposed. There were 4 M&A deals that were larger than this one just in one quarter last year, for example.128.214.69.166 (talk) 09:20, 19 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
It's actually the reverse- Amazon selling groceries in a physical store. The markets quaked as a result of this deal. 331dot (talk) 09:25, 19 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
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Nominator's comments: Long-serving German Chancellor spanning the period before and after re-unification. Updating in progress and article is seeing increased editing activity. Carcharoth (talk) 15:38, 16 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb. Goes without saying, one of Europe's most significant statesmen in the past 50 years, one of the preeminent world leaders from the Cold War era and practically the father of modern Germany (and the euro and the EU as we know it today, with Mitterrand). --Tataral (talk) 15:55, 16 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I also support a blurb, not just because of his position but because of what he did during that time. However I cannot support the nomination yet as the Chancellorship section (ultimately the reason we're supporting a blurb) is not sufficiently sourced. StillWaitingForConnection (talk) 16:07, 16 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Bit surprised to check back and find unanimous support for a blurb. Could someone convert the nomination, or write a blurb? I was thinking the article needs more updating and referencing, so it might be a while before it is ready. Carcharoth (talk) 16:13, 16 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose for now. Significant gaps in referencing. We need to remember to actually look at the article before rushing to support a nomination, even a significant one like this. It's more important that we get it right than we get it up. -Ad Orientem (talk) 16:15, 16 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
All these have been remedied now. It would be more helpful if people helped adding citations instead of peppering the article with CN tags (and thus leaving all the actual work to others) for uncontroversial and well-known material for which it would be easy to find references (eg. Kohl forming a new government after German reunification). --Tataral (talk) 16:37, 16 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Any claim of fact that is not WP:BLUE should have a citation and articles must be adequately referenced before being posted at ITN. This nomination was being rushed through w/o adequate referencing. Further I am not an expert on modern German political history. Nor do I have immediate access to references that would likely have helped. That said, I commend those who so swiftly fixed the referencing issues. Best regards... -Ad Orientem (talk) 16:43, 16 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I did not nominate the article. I have spent the last hour improving the references of the article. The article didn't include any CN tags at one point, but then more were added.--Tataral (talk) 16:47, 16 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb He was definitively a major figure in modern history, whose death certainly merits a blurb. The news also receives wide media coverage as one would expect.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 18:18, 16 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Blurb RD would have been fine, this story is not making top headlines anywhere, it's not going be to a week long extravaganza like it was for Michael Jackson. Same would be true for Jimmy Carter or Jacques Chirac or Tony Blair. Too late now I suppose, no sense in pulling it, best to leave the European bias on display for all to see. --CosmicAdventure (talk) 20:53, 16 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Did Carter or Chirac or Blair reunify a divided country and help create the EU? Bias is not addressed by excluding content. "Top headlines" while helpful is not a requirement, I'd be willing to bet this is headlines in Germany. 331dot (talk) 21:00, 16 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
My bar for death blubs in news coverage, not the individuals accomplishments in life. The de wiki hasn't even featured it on their main page, interestingly. --CosmicAdventure (talk) 21:06, 16 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
You are of course free to judge nominations as you see fit, even if your opinion don't jibe with past practice. Most look at the whole situation; blurbs and ITN in general has never been solely about news coverage. 331dot (talk) 21:12, 16 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Untrue. He is featured on their main page. They don't seem to post deaths in the news section of the main page, ever, because they have a separate section for all deaths. --Tataral (talk) 21:09, 16 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
"this story is not making top headlines anywhere" is a laughable and blatantly wrong claim, as everyone who have read any serious newspapers/other sources (maybe not the ones read by Trump) are aware of (it was the main story on BBC's website last time I checked, and FAZ has devoted the entire front page of their website to his death). I've never ever seen any European bias on ITN, rather the opposite; European topics are systematically held to ten times higher standards than American topics here. --Tataral (talk) 21:07, 16 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Two of the stories on the page right now are ITN/R, one was a death blurb of one of the people at the heart of the fall of the iron curtain, one is Grenfell Tower which is undeniably the biggest story going right now... and the fifth is the non-fatal shooting of a senator. I agree with CosmicAdventure on which one looks out of place, albeit for the exact opposite reason... StillWaitingForConnection (talk) 21:23, 16 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
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Support but would like to see expansion of the article if possible. May not have info coming relatively fast due to area, so current writeup seems good for now. --MASEM (t) 21:34, 16 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose—quite aside from the fact that you haven't actually given a blurb, "phone calls will now be cheaper from some providers in some circumstances" is really not much of a story. (It not only doesn't make the front page of BBC News—the primary news source for the English-language market most affected by this change—but is buried below the fold even on their "European news" page.) Although Noted as one of the greatest successes of EU ought to win some kind of prize for most overblown hyperbole in an ITN/C nom, even by the standards of European Commission press releases (who routinely describe everything they ever do as "a historic landmark"). ‑ Iridescent18:08, 15 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
(Adding) As a note to readers who aren't familiar with this, this isn't the abolition of international charges or anything like that, which might potentially be significant. It's a change to the default behavior of phones, such that within the EEA (not the EU) all phones registered in an EEA country will behave as if they're in that country. (Thus, if Amelie in Strasbourg happens to stray across the river, her phone will treat her as still being in France, and consequently if she phones Bertrand in France she'll be billed at local and not long-distance rates; however, if she phones Carl who's also on the German side of the border she'll be billed at international rates as her phone will treat her as still being in France, even if she's standing right next to him.) The change will be an obvious benefit for people who go on holiday and want to phone their friends at home, and for people who live near borders and constantly have to check they're on their home network before allowing their phone to do anything that uses data, but this really isn't the start of some kind of communications revolution. ‑ Iridescent19:54, 15 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support I think above commentators are too harsh. "One of the greatest successes" is used in both the given source and the EC press release. Obviously this will have long-term consequences, presumably for as long as the EU exists. This kind of arrangement requires the agreement of all participating countries, which is obviously not easy, and it's of interest to the entire EU population of 500 million people. Banedon (talk) 01:04, 16 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Bills go down in relatively wealthy part of world is not front page material. The only noteworthy aspect of this is the political side, which is not sufficient to override the unconvincing nature of the story. StillWaitingForConnection (talk) 11:27, 17 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
[Closed] UN negotiations on a Nuclear-Weapon-Ban treaty
Good faith nomination, but no chance that the start of discussions will be posted. If anything significant is agreed in the discussions then that is the time to nominate. Thryduulf (talk) 07:27, 15 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
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Nominator's comments: Unlike biological or chemical weapons, nuclear weapons are not yet legally banned. To close this gap in international law and to set a strong impulse towards disarmament and de-escalation of international conflicts, 132 out of 193 UN states came together in march 2017. They negotiated a draft for a ban treaty and will discuss it again at New York from 15 June to 7 July. There are good chances that a text will be adopted, which will be submitted to the UN General Assembly in autumn 2017. This question has world-wide, existential impact. It is discussed controversially, mainly between states possessing or not nuclear weapons. The negotiations are intensely observed by governments, organisations of civil society and the media. Jwollbold (talk) 04:57, 15 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Close without prejudice to renomination after 7th July if anything ITN-worthy emerges. "Discussions start" isn't the sort of thing that gets posted at ITN. BencherliteTalk06:48, 15 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
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A suicide bomber explodes a car bomb near a hotel, al-Shabaab militants then storm the hotel and a pizza restaurant, killing least 20 people and taking others hostage, in Somalia's capital Mogadishu. All five attackers are later killed. (Hindustan Times)(Reuters)
The U.S. Federal Reserve raises the federal funds rate by a quarter percentage point to a level between the 1.0-to-1.25 percent range, and outlines a plan to trim its bond holdings and other securities. This is the fourth increase since December 2015. (CBS News)(Reuters)
A large fire consumes the 24-storey Grenfell Tower apartment block in North Kensington, West London, with the entire building evacuated and over 40 fire engines and 200 firefighters battling the blaze. At least 17 people are dead and more people are treated for injuries, with more people possibly being trapped inside. (BBC)(The Guardian)(NBC News)(New York Times)(ABC via Yahoo!)
Australia agrees to pay AUS$70 million in compensation to 1,905 people who have been detained on Manus Island since 2012, so avoiding a public trial against the government and the Transfield and G4S private companies for the detainees' degrading and cruel treatment. (The Telegraph)
The woman whose remains were found scattered along the Military Road in Wicklow, Ireland was named locally today as Patricia O'Connor, a 61 year old from Rathfarnham. A man was arrested in connection with this on Tuesday. (BBC)
One or both nominated events are listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Nominator's comments: ITNR item. Not sure how much prose we need on this and where it should be located. On the one hand, Man Booker International Prize#2017 may be just about adequate in its current state. On the other, A Horse Walks Into a Bar is a redlink at the current time. (For what its worth, I'm perfectly happy to post a redlink to the main page if the main update is elsewhere - personally I think that readers see far too few redlinks and get the impression the encylopedia is basically complete.) LukeSurltc12:42, 16 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support. The prize article is fine and ready to go. Not necessary for posting but I would recommend that if someone source the awards on Grossman's page, that would help (and potentially make it a second link). A quick check shows at least a few RS reviews for the book itself so the stub would also help, but neither of these are necessary for posting now. --MASEM (t) 13:10, 16 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
If I remember correctly, the format of the Man Booker International prize changed recently from a writer's body of work to one piece crediting the author and the translator. Leaving half the prize off the front page looks bad. While redlinks (like citation issues/NPOV/unecyclopedic language/etc) are prevalent in articles, I doubt, given the current climate, that this will fly on the main page. Writing a one line stub (A Horse Walks Into a Bar is a 2017 novel by David Grossman. An English translation of the work by Jessica Cohen won the 2017 Man Booker International Prize.) with a reference is better than nothing in this case. Plus it shouldn't be too difficult to source a short paragraph plot summary from those book reviews. Fuebaey (talk) 13:35, 16 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
As I write now it is no longer a stub but a very healthy start article (that could be a bold article). Kudos for creating and expanding this so quickly. --LukeSurltc15:19, 16 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Oppose. Coaching records section is unreferenced and there are some unreferenced claims in the career section (although they should be easy to cite) - all now tagged. Thryduulf (talk) 17:14, 15 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Support She was a rather notable figure and significant within the world of the British aristocracy (a not insignificant world). --Varavour (talk) 03:18, 15 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. The "Activities" section has an orange banner, and the sentence "Later they became one of the few married couples each of whom held a peerage in their own right, and whose descendants are slated to inherit titles through both." needs updating and citing. Thryduulf (talk) 07:30, 15 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose in addition, none of her grandchildren are sourced in the article or are her honours. Neither is the fact that she was in the boat during the bombing. Or that she has in fact died. Fuebaey (talk) 05:15, 19 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Director of the highest sold newspaper in Argentina. First woman to become director of a mainstream newspaper in South America. Cambalachero (talk) 18:51, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose This article's layout is not up to standard and it only covers two controversial topics in depth, which raises BLP issues. So first off, the article needs an overhaul or a makeover. The entire page has one section only, called "Life and times." The other problem is the article covers only two topics in depth: (1) that Herrera de Noble had a controlling stake in Clarín, Argentina's most widely circulated newspaper; and (2) legal disputes with various family members that were made public. The first topic should be discussed in another Wikipedia article (i.e., that Clarín became a media conglomerate under her watch). The second topic involves potential BLP issues, ie., legal disputes with family members, discussions that her adopted children were orphans whose real parents were abducted and killed by a previous political regime. I understand that these issues are cited and sourced, but they seem cherry-picked, because media moguls are often subject to wild speculations, conjectures, and controversial accusations. - Christian Roess (talk) 20:40, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's comments: A US American Congressman was shot. It is breaking news in every international and most of the national newspaper. (Incomplete nomination by User:Rævhuld, completed by OZOO16:04, 14 June 2017 (UTC))[reply]
Oppose. No deaths (except the attacker), and mass shootings are (unfortunately) an almost daily occurrence in the US. Why would this attack have more long-term consequences than any of hundreds in recent years? This wouldn't even be in the media if it didn't happen to be a group of politicians, and the motive seems to be entirely speculative at this point. Lack of encyclopaedic value IMO. Modest Geniustalk16:19, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - Please note, this is an assault against high-ranking U.S. officials, rather than a random shooting -- including the Majority Whip. That doesn't happen very often.
Is there any evidence that this was a targeted attack or assassination attempt? Let's not get caught up in media speculation on the motives. Modest Geniustalk18:04, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not going to step into the assassination charge just yet. Too little is known. Absolutely it was an assault with a deadly weapon, however. The odds of the shooter not knowing who he was shooting at, given the notoriety of the event, are impossibly slim.
Oppose, per Modest Genius. Yes, it is dominating news coverage both nationally and internationally at the moment, but I don't think it rises to the level of ITN, especially with the Grenfell Park fire (which actually did kill people) leading the section at the moment.
Comment. This was no ordinary mass shooting, but an assassination attempt against several Republican congresspeople who were apparently targeted because they were Republicans.(which is in the current reporting)[9] Oppose if you wish but this isn't normal for American politics. 331dot (talk) 16:41, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I would say regarding the blurb that only the shooter has died; I think we typically don't include that information in a way that suggests the perpetrator was a victim. 331dot (talk) 16:43, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Oppose This looks like a near miss from being a political assassination/massacre. Thank God for the police. But at the moment the only death is the gunman and the other injuries don't appear life threatening. If we were in one of ITNs periodic long dry spells I'd probably support this, but we are not. Right now I don't think it's enough for ITN, especially given the level of violent crime that routinely occurs in the United States and the fact that we generally ignore mass shooting that don't involve a very high death toll. -Ad Orientem (talk) 16:44, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support this is big, an attempted assassination doesn't happen too often, and this can be tied to the Kathy Griffin and the Shakespeare play incidents. Regardless, someone targeting members of a specific party to kill, is notable. Sir Joseph(talk)16:57, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support The shooting is "in the news", so it should be "In the News". If you really care about the greater significance beyond the news of the day, it's an assassination attempt on members of the U.S. Congress. This is not a "run of the mill" shooting. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:00, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
ITN is not a news ticker. We're supposed to highlight articles which have been updated to reflect important current events which will have long-term encyclopaedic value. Not everything that appears in the newspapers is suitable for ITN. Modest Geniustalk18:03, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support – Not the typical type of shooting in the US. Politically motivated assassination attempt(s) that thankfully failed. Ample coverage of this story as well. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 17:09, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - ASITUSA. The only death was the shooter. We have to set the bar really high on attempted assassinations, and a Congressman isn't going to cut it for ITN.--WaltCip (talk) 17:21, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@WaltCip: It isn't even just Congressmen, but a member of Congressional leadership that was injured(the majority whip) and clearly targeted for political reasons(the shooter asked which party was on the field before he started) . 331dot (talk) 19:19, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Oppose Sounds rather macabre, but I would have supported if there were high-profile deaths. As it is, it's just a standard USA mass shooting that happened to include a few people of notability. Black Kite (talk)18:10, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Support. This is a tough one. Yes, mass shootings happen regularly in the US and the perpetrator was the only death, but an assassination attempt of a member of Congress is very rare and this came very close to succeeding - it was only because a member with a leadership position was there that there was security at all, according to Rand Paul[10].--Pawnkingthree (talk) 18:21, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - While I'm not sure whether this should be posted at ITN, I want to say that I strongly disagree with the argument made by Modest Genius and others that this is a common event in the United States. The attempted assassination of a congressman is not at all common, and very different in terms of the attention it receives than things like inner-city violence or some disgruntled worker shooting their coworkers. I believe this is only the second time a member of congress has been injured in an assassination attempt during my lifetime (I'm almost 36). For comparison, I believe 4 British Members of Parliament have been assassinated during my lifetime, and at least a couple others have been significantly injured in attacks. Saying this sort of thing happens a lot in the US or that the event isn't even notable is just nonsense. That being said, given the lack of fatalities other than the perpetrator, I'm not sure if this rises to the level of posting at ITN. Calathan (talk) 18:27, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Unless it would have any influence on gun legislation and that is just crystal balling. Not notable enough in itself for me with the incredibly deep partisan divide in the US and despite being an "assassination attempt". Politically motivated crimes from the left and right surely are not uncommon nowadays (the Portland mess for example) as are mass shootings in general. Only thing that sets this apart is that people who could actually bring about change got targeted. But in general i wouldnt say that an injured public office holder is more notable than a couple of dead in the many shootings that take place in the US regularly. And as for being in the news everywhere, well news is a business and the 24/7 news cycle needs to get filled so... yea, that isnt a very high bar anymore either in my oppinion. 91.49.74.201 (talk) 18:49, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support While it is Yet Another Shooting in the US, it was at a gathering of several Congressmen. An assassination attempt at federal gov't officials is not thing that happens even close to routinely as other gun crimes in the US. --MASEM (t) 18:56, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Isanae: Was the San Francisco shooting against several Congresspeople, including a member of leadership, targeted for political reasons? 331dot (talk) 19:18, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
There is nothing notable nor interesting about either of them. Do what? Please tell me your joking. If your not that might cause me to question your judgement to the degree that I wonder if you should even be commenting here. -Ad Orientem (talk) 19:23, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support. An assassination attempt against such a high-ranking politician with blatant political motivation is a very rare event. I'm baffled at people who say there's nothing "interesting" about it. The WordsmithTalk to me19:25, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support A shooting of a congress member (let alone a Majority Whip) is very unusual; the last one before this was Giffords in 2011. This is a very sad situation illustrating how divided our nation has become... EternalNomad (talk) 19:27, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support on notability, third ranking member of congress in critical condition, many wounded, would-be assassin with political motives and high-powered weapon shot dead, worldwide coverage. μηδείς (talk) 19:39, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - Article is great. however, US mass shootings are not rare, and this was a failed assassination with no fatalities. On a slow news day, fine, but on a day with another mass shooting (not politically motivated, but still), no. Four are dead in San Francisco, and it has (justifiably) not been nominated. No fatalities whatsoever means this gets an oppose, unfortunately, no matter how morbidly interesting. WP:UNDUE in my view, especially if no long term change occurs as a result (And we can't say that it will - WP:CRYSTAL. Oppose - Stormy clouds (talk) 20:13, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Stormy clouds: So someone has to die in order to be mentioned? Is that a new policy you just made up? That a Congressman was shot in an attempted assassination is extremely notable and it reflects poorly on Wikipedia that it's not mentioned. I am trying to AGF but it's hard to not think that there is a bias among people who are opposing the mention on the front page. Sir Joseph(talk)20:43, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Sir Joseph: - I did not make up that rule, but it is a pretty good metric to adopt, or else the main page would be like an RNS news feed. I am frankly rather offended that you would assume bias (an unfounded claim, as far as I can see) simply because, due to WP:UNDUE and the lack of lasting consequences (again, no one is dead), that I oppose. Slamming bias on those who disagree with you in debate and discourse discourages further discussion, and violates much of the good natured grounding of Wikipedia. While we are at it though, claiming this has links to Kathy Griffin is unencyclopedic and rather tabloid-esque, and exposes a clear, non-centred perspective - she is far from the first to fictionally refer to the murder of politicians. Or was the Hollywood elite also at fault here? I assure you that I am not biased against the US or the GOP. Moreover, I'll lend those in support the same courtesy. I just don't think this is ITN material - it is a viewpoint (supported by the aforementioned Wikipedia rules), not a liberal cuck conspiracy. - Stormy clouds (talk) 20:56, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Unmarking as ready - there is too much dissent and disagreement here to call this one as consensus yet. (if I am incorrect or biased in this assertion reverse it). Stormy clouds (talk) 20:25, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
It's fine, any user can (un)mark. [Ready] is just encouraging a neutral administrator to judge consensus, and is added if a user believes consensus may be reached. Mamyles (talk) 20:52, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Now that I think about it, if we want to get picky, SC should not be allowed to mark or even post here, since the topic is either US Politics or Gun Control and that requires someone to be EC which he isn't, being under 500 posts. Sir Joseph(talk)20:55, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Sir Joseph: - Justifiable, but harsh. I have adhered to the rules here as far as I can see, but if you want me to go away, I will with haste. Your wish is my command, those I hope you allow me remain in the interests of impartiality. If I have crossed a line, please tell me so - as you correctly pointed out, I am a novice here, trying to learn. - Stormy clouds (talk) 21:00, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
And yet absolutely the norm. To say that it disheartening is one thing, but to me it also appears as a chilling effect. You, me, and perhaps others that commented here should all be disregarded then. That it even was checked if you do have 500 edits is quite worrying to be honest, even if technically perhaps correct (the best way of being correct after all lol)91.49.70.200 (talk) 21:18, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support The oppose opinions are not convincing, this was a high profile attack. I agree with others here questioning why a death must almost always be involved. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 21:08, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - as it stands from a quick head count, there are 14 in support, and 9 in opposition. While this clearly indicates a majority, where lies the threshold for consensus? I for one do not know in this case where it is. Can a more experienced editor please tell me if we are at consensus or no consensus? - Stormy clouds (talk) 21:24, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Consensus is not a vote count, it's the weighted merit of arguments. Essentially this boils down to which argument is better: that having high profile targets and a large amount of global coverage means this should be posted, or that there were few casualties for this to be significant/notable. Mamyles (talk) 21:37, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support not a "mass shooting" this was a targeted assassination attempt. Getting awfully tired of "yawn another mass shooting in America" since vehicular murder seems to be totally out of control in Europe and yet we melt the WP servers heaping on support every single time it happens. --CosmicAdventure (talk) 21:35, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Being a citizen of the US and a european country i do have to agree with you there, nutjobs killing people for various reasons in europe is almost as common as it is in the US. Means are different but that is about it. But anyway, exactly that "yawn effect" for me is a very sad side effect of things like this, a non polilically motivated shooting or what have you. People get numb to it quite fast. It is a shocking crime, just like any other shooting in the US or any vehicular murder in europe. And both are sadly way too common. But getting all defensive about something like that and basically "lashing out" at another too common tragedy is not the best aproach, dont you think? 91.49.70.200 (talk) 21:52, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@CosmicAdventure: - I understand your viewpoint, and as a European can also agree that the epidemic of vehicular assaults is draining. However, there are clear differences between this incident and the ones to which you are referring. A) People die in those attacks, and the fatalities make it noteworthy and of lasting impact. Terror attacks which result in no fatalities, or only see the perpetrator die, are often not even nominated. (See 2017 Louvre machete attack, as well as another Parisien incident in January), and this incident is one such case. B) Those are terror attacks - the incidents to which you refer are orchestrated by an organised terror group - Daesh/ISIL, which makes them more globally notable and of lasting impact, as they could strike again, killing more people. When such attacks occur in the US, irresepective of method, they are posted (Pulse, San Bernadinho). This incident appears to be a one-off, and to assume it is part of a concerted effort is WP:CRYSTAL. C) Even despite their recent regularity, these attacks are far less frequent than mass shootings in the US, so featuring them is fine. To address this shooting would be WP:UNDUE, especially if more severe shootings with fatalities are neglected. D) No lasting consequence - those attacks have long lasting consequences on a global stage. Barring legislation change in the Capitol, this one will not (to assume this will happen is crystal balling), so it is frankly of less consequence to ITN. Apologies for the convoluted and long answer. Stormy clouds (talk) 22:10, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - I'm not buying this argument put forth by most of the "support" voters that this was a "targeted assassinations attempt" of a high-ranking political official. And therefore this is not just another mass shooting, just because one of America's "power elite" was almost killed. The problem with this argument is that the shooter (the perpetrator) is dead, and so we are just speculating about the shooter's real motives. Yeah, I know the argument here is to "connect the dots" and it seems an obvious political assassination attempt. But it's not our job here at Wikipedia to "connect the dots," or engage in this kind of speculation. Christian Roess (talk) 22:21, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
It's not speculation; witnesses have reported that the shooter asked if it was Republicans or Democrats on the field and started shooting after he got the answer. He was there to harm Republican members of Congress.(I link to the source above). 331dot (talk) 22:24, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Look, if we want to post this as an ITN item because it was a mass shooting involving Democrats and Republicans in the U.S. Congress, that's fine. All I said was that I didn't buy into the "support"-voters who are calling this a targeted assassination. Witnesses report that the shooter asked if Republicans or Democrats were around and ipso facto it's now quite clearly a case of a targeted assassination attempt (?), no ifs-ands-or-buts? Speculation. Or at best, pure conjecture. Furthermore, the perpetrator is dead, so he isn't able to give first-hand testimony. - Christian Roess (talk) 22:38, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Posted, without the assumption that the attacker was targeting Republicans, which is likely but unproven, and not really an essential detail. --Bongwarrior (talk) 23:12, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's comments: In the discussion at the time of the party leadership election the was a split between posting at the time and waiting for Varadkar to become Taoiseach (prime minister). It wasn't posted at the time. Leo Varadkar is the bold article if we go with the simple "there's a new Taoiseach" line. Alternatively we lead with the detailed Fine Gael leadership election, 2017 article which goes into more depth of how he came to be the successor, although this event actually occurred a few weeks ago. Both articles are in an OK state. LukeSurltc13:55, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support: As one of those who favoured waiting until he was actually elected by the Dail, I now support posting (subject to the usual quality checks, which I leave to others better qualified to assess such things), as he has now been elected. I will probably shortly add an altblurb that mentions the Dail vote, since that's what made him Taoiseach, but I'm happy to go along with the existing blurb if that's preferred. (I'm now off to bed, so I'll leave the updates to others, and I'll also let others worry about whether the blurb should mention that he's gay and half-Indian, which is arguably what makes his elevation more notable than usual). Tlhslobus (talk) 14:06, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Oppose until the article is properly updated. As of right now this development is not reflected in the lead and there is scant information on his election as Taoiseach in the body of the article. Fix this and we should be good to go. -Ad Orientem (talk) 14:24, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Weak support altblurb 1. Not the most influential post in the world, and wasn't through a general election, but nonetheless an interesting appointment of a head of government. Modest Geniustalk14:33, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support Alt 2 per previous discussions – assuming the article is adequately updated. Fine Gael isn't needed in the blurb. Sca (talk) 14:52, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The Leo Varadkar article contains the basic information now. If editors consider there to be deficiencies in this, please add them or outline what needs to be done. --LukeSurltc15:05, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support - proposed this when he won the leadership election in Fine Gael. Certainly notable and the articles are ready to go as far as I see. Stormy clouds (talk) 15:58, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - strongly oppose alt blurbs 2 and 3 however. The links exist to inform curious readers what the Dáil and Taoiseach are. One would not describe the US Senate as (America's House of Lords) in an ITN blurb, and the same principle stands here. Original or Alt 1 are far better. Stormy clouds (talk) 16:03, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Alt2 was suggested to make the blurb readily intelligible to the largest proportion of readers. The roughly 300 million native speakers of U.S. English comprise about two-thirds of all native speakers of English worldwide. Taoiseach is a non-English word unknown to most English speakers, and I see nothing wrong – or offensive to Hibernophiles such as Stormy – with putting prime minister (lower case) in parentheses after it as an explanation. Sca (talk) 22:01, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Sca: - I understand that, but then referring to the Dáil as Ireland's House of Commons is not going to help the Americans out too much in my opinion, being a uniquely Anglophilic of concepts. Besides, will the standard Wikipedian not be willing to click the link and find out. I get the aim, but the blurb is sloppy, overly long, and leaves out a well-sourced companion article that explains a weird (by foreign standards) succession. Tuigim nach bhfuil muid ar fad in ann an teanga dhúchais a tuiscint go soileir, but I trust users (may be misguided in this though). Stormy clouds (talk) 22:23, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - as per previous nomination, additional notability is derived from his status as Ireland's first homosexual Taoiseach, as well as being the first Irish leader of Indian descent. Stormy clouds (talk) 16:47, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Tlhslobus: The delay will have been waiting for an uninvolved (or not significantly involved) admin who had the time to (a) assess the consensus and (b) check the state of the article. Exactly the same as with everything that gets posted. Sometimes a nomination is marked ready just as a suitable admin is checking their watchlist, other times it will be a few hours before someone is available - it's entirely luck of the draw. Thryduulf (talk) 00:09, 15 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, Thryduulf. For future reference, how long do you recommend waiting before asking 'Why the delay?'? (Or alternatively is it genuinely never necessary to ask?) Tlhslobus (talk) 02:01, 15 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
And would it be useful to add your reply to the 'Please do not' list near the top of this page (e.g. Please do not ask 'why the delay in posting?', unless there have been no objections to posting since it was marked 'Ready', and at least X hours have elapsed.)? (Note: I'm expecting that this conversation will be very short, as otherwise it should presumably be moved to Wikipedia talk:In the news). Tlhslobus (talk) 02:12, 15 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
If it's been more than 5-6 hours then you can ask an admin to take a look. This is best done by placing a message on the talk page of an admin who is a regular at ITN, who is active currently or has recently been active, and who has not participated in the discussion. They are not obliged to do anything of course. Posting on the nomination thread is unlikely to achieve anything in most cases. This isn't on the "please don't" list as this is not something that comes up very often and the list is not exhaustive (to keep it manageable and avoid tldr). Thryduulf (talk) 07:23, 15 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Article needs updating Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Oppose. The "Controversy" section needs significantly more citations - I've tagged. Some of these points may be covered by existing refs but it isn't clear. Thryduulf (talk) 07:37, 15 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose too lopsided for my liking. I get that cycling went through a rough patch during his tenure (think Sepp Blatter) but when a controversy section outweighs the rest of the biography at the rate of 2+:1 it's about time to considered trimming it and/or writing more about what he achieved as president. The biography section, in comparison, is fairly weak. Fuebaey (talk) 04:59, 19 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Article:Grenfell Tower fire (talk·history·tag) Blurb: The 24-storey Grenfell Tower in London (pictured) is gutted by fire. (Post) Alternative blurb: The 24-storey Grenfell Tower in London (pictured) is destroyed by fire with a number of fatalities reported. News source(s):BBC Credits:
Wait for sufficient details to emerge, though I find it difficult to envisage circumstances in which I wouldn't support. Would invite people who are minded to oppose until significance is demonstrated (I'm often one of them) to take a look at the pictures of the incident to understand why this is not a premature nomination. StillWaitingForConnection (talk) 05:16, 14 June 2017 (UTC) Switched to support. StillWaitingForConnection (talk) 07:20, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
As an aside, I don't think the originally nominated image would be particularly helpful. Undoubtedly free images of the incident itself will be uploaded in the very near future. StillWaitingForConnection (talk) 05:18, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support I would support this - I'm watching Sky News and people are talking about the historic nature of the fire, and there could be hundreds of people killed - "unprecedented" is what they are saying. Of course we'll know more later today but there should be considerable interest in the article. —МандичкаYO 😜 05:19, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Unprecendented is one of those words that is used far too often nowadays. It was used on Sky's coverage of election night more than once. That said, my eyes and memory tell me that it's likely to be accurate in this instance. StillWaitingForConnection (talk) 05:32, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Error in Template:Reply to: Input contains forbidden characters. Already been posted, but I want to clarify that it wasn't the journalists' opinion, but they were quoting an expert who called it unprecedented (I think someone with city of London or fire expert). Sky started repeating its live feed and I saw this bit twice, so I remember that. I know how TV hypes things up. —МандичкаYO 😜 04:08, 15 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose A building with no real previous notability, and with no deaths that I see reported. Such fires happen all the time, this doesn't seem unusual. (Contrast that to the fire in a Baghdad building fire we posted about 6 monhts or so ago, that was notable before it was destroyed by fire, and which killed numerous people. This is an example of bad article that fails WP:NOT#NEWS and WP:NEVENT. --MASEM (t) 05:49, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The suggestion that entire 24 storey buildings are completely gutted by fire all the time is a complete nonsense, invalidating the rest of your argument about the article itself. That is of course separate from the question of whether we should post, where you're right to point out (by inference) that there is not yet sufficient evidence to suggest that this is exceptional enough. StillWaitingForConnection (talk) 05:57, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
A key point is what importance this building had before the fire. A 24-story building is extremely commonplace in the world (and certainly in London), and as it appears to be just an apartment building, that makes the importance even less important. If it was, say, The Shard or Canary Wharf Tower , which have a notable history due their importance/architecture, that might be something. But this is very much similar equivalent to BLP1E , for buildings. Without any significant casualities nor something appearing to have been set maliciously, it is something that happens, and not a news story. --MASEM (t) 06:05, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The Shaanxi Y-8 8520 of the Myanmar Air Force had no notability before it crashed, much the same as Grenfell Tower before it was gutted by fire. So that's the end of the BLP1E-like argument. It is the biggest fire in London for decades, leaving 120 families (300+ people?) homeless. I don't know how you can say it is not news, when it is being reported in the Netherlands, Australia, Singapore and no doubt many other countries. Mjroots (talk) 06:16, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Accidents that cause significant causalities are different types of events, where it doesn't happen what happened before but the aftereffects. (and with any type of aviation event, there is usually an extensive detailed investigation to make sure it does not happen again, whereas building fires do not get close to the same detailed review). Also, to argue about the 300+ people temporarily displaced compared to deaths from other significant world tragedies going on (but which don't get significant coverage due to the long tail of events such as the Syrian civil war), this is arguably trying to push a first-world problem. Mind you, I suspect that there was initial concern due to the heightened terror situation that "a fire in a London skyscraper" could be a possible terrorist attack, but it's clearly been proven as a simple accident. --MASEM (t) 06:32, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
We do not look at a spat of news to determine notability but the enduring coverage of a topic. There is no indication that in a week (for example) this will still be news. If it turns out there were significant casualities or damage in the surrounding buildings, maybe that's something, but this is a routine fire. This is what should be coverage at Wikinews, not an encyclopedia looking for long-term topics of importance. --MASEM (t) 06:32, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
We won't know the death toll until firefighters are able to go through the building, but it has been suggested the ultimate death toll could be as high as 100. The fire department has confirmed fatalities, but has refrained from giving a number so far. Dragons flight (talk) 06:48, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Death toll aside, Ronan Point (half a century ago) is a good example of why the thrust of Masem's argument is garbage. Firefighters have confirmed "a number of fatalities", so clearly in that regard this at a minimum matches Ronan Point. Clearly it is not common for fires to spread so rapidly through buildings of this size - they're normally specifically designed to withstand and contain fire for a considerbale time (indeed it's being reported that the fire safety advice within this very building in the event of a fire below was to close the doors, block the cracks in the doors and call the emergency services). And if, as seems highly likely, there is a non-malicious root cause behind this fire, it's likely that the pressure to legislate and make changes will be on a par with Ronan Point.
All of this is of course separate from the question of posting, but for as long as an ITN regular is making the assertion that the article shouldn't exist stands (that assertion, if supported, would automatically prevent posting), it's appropriate to continue the conversation here. StillWaitingForConnection (talk) 07:04, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Please keep in mind, at the time of my comments, there were no reports of fatalities; injured yet, but no deaths. A lot does change now that there are fatalities. --MASEM (t) 13:27, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support Clearly a very significant news event. Spurious arguments above suggesting this is a common occurrence should be discounted. Also important to note that some of the "refurbishment" regarding the addition of plastic cladding, concerns regarding health and safety and some of the advice issued by the authorities about staying inside in the event of an fire could have made this incident more newsworthy than usual. Also being live broadcast in several countries. AusLondonder (talk) 06:23, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Wait. The speculation is that there is likely to have been a large number of fatalities. Assuming that is correct, I support posting once a preliminary death toll has been reported. Dragons flight (talk) 07:00, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose sensational, for sure. But fires do happen, everday, around the world. That media coverage is skewed towards global cities such as London should not dictate what we post here and what not. 81.204.120.137 (talk) 07:01, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support due to it being confirmed that there are a number of fatalities, and due to the spread of a fire over such a large building in such a short space of time being unusual. Building regulations specifically require high rise buildings to be able to withstand the spread of fire for a certain period of time, and therefore either the nature of the fire was exceptional, or the shortcomings of the building have had exceptional consequences. In this regard this seems comparable to the Ronan Point explosion, with what appears to be a significantly greater casualty count.
My previous stance of wait and see seems untenable, because the nature of the opposition convinces me that the discussion will be stalled out indefinitely if I don't nail my colours to the mast. That is not a criticism of the people in question's stances, but of my lack of confidence in the functioning ITNC. I have no confidence that this process is anything other than a vote count nowadays. StillWaitingForConnection (talk) 07:19, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Have removed the [Ready] - we don't have a suitable blurb yet ("gutted by fire" is simultaneously sensationalist, and yet downplays the fact that many people have lost their lives) and several people above have commented Wait. Smurrayinchester08:02, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Well, suggestions for alternative blurbs are welcome. Blurb can always be updated once posted (I can do this myself). I could have posted this myself, but I didn't because I nominated it. Admin tools are not to be used for an admin to gain an advantage over a non-admin. Marking as ready merely flags the situation up for an uninvoled admin to make a final decision on. Mjroots (talk) 08:09, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
FWIW I see little point in using the original image. I would actually rather people complained about us running the story with an unrelated image, as that tends to speed up the process of a free one being uploaded. StillWaitingForConnection (talk) 08:39, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support as there were "several hundred people in the building" when the fire started, so it's clearly a rather notable event. Sentence needs a hyphen, though: "The 24-storey Grenfell Tower..."
Support It's in the news and the article title isn't obvious so ITN will help editors and readers in navigating to the topic. Such major fires are notable because they are not so frequent in London – see Fires in London. Andrew D. (talk) 08:22, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support. This is getting a great deal of news coverage and this sort of event is rare(large towers catching fire). 331dot (talk) 09:19, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment When the death toll is reported, please don't write "(including X children)" that always feels really tacky to me. Every death is a tragedy, and the # each of dead and injured will suffice. --CosmicAdventure (talk) 10:04, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
... and this one too. I think the first one is more illustrative. The photographer has put a CC licence on Twitter as noted in the file descriptions. Thincat (talk) 16:42, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Post-posting oppose per Masen & IP. The importance of this event is overblown. Hard to imagine any kind of lasting impact from this kind of disaster. Banedon (talk) 05:38, 15 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
"Hard to imagine any kind of lasting impact"!? You mean other than the safety of every tower block in the country being called into question, examinations being carried out urgently into all buildings with similar cladding and all tower blocks that have recently been refurbished? Other than the government's inaction following the report into the lesser 2009 fire being called into question? Other than the safety of the government's cuts to the fire service being called into question? Other than the whole ecosystem of private management of council housing, and cuts to council housing budgets being seriously examined at a national level? As for "overblown" the fire is still not extinguished over 30 hours after it began, and the most senior officer of the largest fire brigade in the country calling it the most significant fire of hisher3529-year career. I'm finding it extremely hard to believe that you've actually read anything about this incident at all. Thryduulf (talk) 07:49, 15 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thryduulf, you are illustrating why I think it's hard to imagine this has any kind of lasting impact. This is a story in which reading the headline tells one everything that's worth knowing. All these reactions - from "the safety of every tower block in the country being called into question" to "cuts to council housing budgets being seriously examined" - are to be expected. There is nothing surprising about this, and nothing to see. Even if policy changes to the tune of "UK government approves large increase to council housing budgets" happen, that is still something not appropriate to ITN, since it's completely internal to the UK. Besides, as per longstanding ITN convention, we post these when they actually happen, not when they start being considered. If this actually leads to some kind of worldwide change in building policy, then that might be something, but I don't see it happening. As for the most senior officer of the largest fire brigade in the country calling it the most significant fire of her career, that simply means she wasn't around during other, more significant fires, e.g. the World Trade Center burning down in the 9/11 attacks. This kind of statement sounds impressive, but once you compare things on a global scale, where there are thousands of firemen with decade-long careers, it really isn't. Banedon (talk) 01:15, 16 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I really think any judgement like that is a little premature when very many are still unaccounted for and the final death toll totally unknown. Martinevans123 (talk) 07:52, 15 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Given the numbers being reported missing and statements that no further survivors are likely, the final death toll could exceed 50. Mjroots (talk) 13:22, 15 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The prime minister has also announced a public enquiry into the fire and its circumstances, and The Sun has devoted about half today's paper to the story (not a publication I regard as a reliable source, or endorse, but I happened to spot it in the supermarket rack) - neither things associated with a run-of-the-mill event. Thryduulf (talk) 17:05, 15 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
A shooting occurs at a local train station in the Unterföhring suburb of Munich, Germany. The assailant shot a police officer in the head; she is in critical condition. Backup police engaged in a shootout where the suspect and two bystanders were injured. Police do not believe this is a terrorist attack. (Reuters)(NBC News)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Support Generally referencing is good. There are a couple of "page needed" tags for book references which ideally should be cleared up.--Pawnkingthree (talk) 17:48, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Don't bother, a fire in London is more important to the Wikipedia crowds.
If you don't like what the "crowd" chooses, feel free to join the crowd and/or contribute to the article to bring it up to an appropriate posting standard. 331dot (talk) 09:18, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
It's hard to judge this article because it is a stub, but to quote the BBC article: "Landslides caused by monsoons often occur in the southern hills in Bangladesh." So this isn't all that unusual there. Coverage of this, while it exists, seems limited. That said, if the article was significantly improved I could support it. 331dot (talk) 09:18, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support on notability. However, reluctant but strong oppose given the current state of the article. It is currently not in condition to be an article here at all, let alone on the main page. As it is fixed, post. Stormy clouds (talk) 16:24, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Article should be redirected to 2017 North Indian Ocean cyclone season, since it was Deep Depression BOB 03 that caused the landslides.Jason Rees (talk) 16:30, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Update: Five more sources have been added, as well as more details on the extent of the disaster and the response. Death toll figures are now 156 dead and more missing and injured. Al Jazeera quoted the head of Bangladesh's Disaster Management Department as saying that these landslides were the worst in the country's history. 70.67.222.124 (talk) 18:23, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Marking "ready" for someone else to have a look at; article is on the short side, but is well referenced and appears to cover the basics, and no longer a stub. --Bongwarrior (talk) 23:38, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Things are happening but its nearly all diplomatic actions and nothing like wars or other crisis. Barring major changes I don't think this is good ongoing. --MASEM (t) 04:34, 13 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, albeit reluctantly as this is entirely sensible nomination and worthy of serious consideration. My view however, is that we posted the break-off of relations as a blurb, and what has happened since is not uncommon when countries in close proximity to one another have recently broken-off relations. There's the justification, there's the blame game, there's the hardening of stances, there's the linking of the other countries to crime and/or of a threat to peace.
For me, the justification for an ongoing would be the reasonable suggestion that the break-off of relations (and those things which were obviously going to be a direct consequence) are not as far as this situation goes. "Reasonable suggestion" is not a phrase we use often on Wikipedia, but seems an appropriate one here. No-one is going to scream at us from the rooftops condemning us for linking to this article on the main page if conflict does not follow. On the other hand, there will be people screaming at us from the rooftops if we do not treat future diplomatic disputes with the ongoing treatment, unless we have some form of reason to point to as to why this one was singled out.
I'll conclude on two points, with the caveat that if made in isolation the former would seem sarcastic and the latter trying to put off the posting of a story I'm opposing, but both are meant in good faith as entirely straight and respectful comments. Firstly, if irregular and less than friendly interactions between neighbouring nations were in and of themselves sufficient for ongoing posts, we would have Israel and North Korea hard-coded into the template. The fact is that we do post those nations in blurbs from time-to-time, as and when specific actions which really do go above and beyond the "norm" of their relations come to light. Secondly, and assuming the argument is that those situations are decades old and therefore not comparable to this one, I would say that now is too soon to really judge whether this should be an ongoing. The immediate practical aftermath of the diplomatic severance is still emerging, and while that process is taking place it's hard to make a fair assessment of whether things are still getting notably worse, or whether we're seeing a lagging effect of news that has already been reported. In another couple of weeks it would be easier to make this assessment. StillWaitingForConnection (talk) 04:48, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
I gave it a copyedit and marked. Probably have to rethink RDs if a decently expanded nomination sits for five days with just one comment. Fuebaey (talk) 04:40, 19 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Posted. This wasn't nominated until the section was two-days old which is probably why it has sat for so long. If you want to discus how to avoid this then WT:ITN is the place. Thryduulf (talk) 07:28, 19 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Article updated The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Only because we don't have room to explain "Hey this was him only a few years ago" with the jersey change. But if that's not seen as a problem, then we do have images. --MASEM (t) 04:45, 13 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
I don't see any obvious connection to WP:PADMASOCK (as Vivvt suspected), or any glaring indication of sockpuppetry, but I do get the sense that Reddyvi is pushing ownership. Interested editors should keep an eye open for that. It's a brand new user making a lot of bold changes and strong assertions. Most of their edits are erroneously marked as minor, so they should probably be informed of the appropriate use of WP:MINOR. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 15:29, 13 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks @Cyphoidbomb: for your comments. If not sock we might simply have to deal with him. But I doubt a new user would know how to revert an edit and also address an editor in almost all their edit summaries. I personally have no energy to sit and teach such people. I might let the article get hampered than let that happen to my brain. - Vivvt (Talk) 03:40, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - definite edit war. Messages left on talk pages. Cannot be posted mid-dispute, irrespective of all other factors. Neither parties, including the nominator, appear innocent, and the dispute must be resolved ASAP. Stormy clouds (talk) 17:14, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Nominators often include links to external websites and other references in discussions on this page. It is usually best to provide such links using the inline URL syntax [http://example.com] rather than using <ref></ref> tags, because that keeps all the relevant information in the same place as the nomination without having to jump to this section, and facilitates the archiving process.
For the times when <ref></ref> tags are being used, here are their contents:
In the news toolbox.jpg)
