Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates
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September 7
September 7, 2020
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September 6
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(Posted) RD: Lou Brock
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): St. Louis Post-Dispatch
Credits:
- Updated and nominated by Nohomersryan (talk · give credit)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Looks like a decent article already... Nohomersryan (talk) 22:35, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
- Support. Article looks fine. Maybe a couple more things could be cited but this is a B class bio. -SusanLesch (talk) 23:07, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
WeakSupport - Overall a great article. Iadded a few cn tags to the article, as some places still need citations. However, other users have added sources and greatly improved the article. Article is ready.~ Destroyeraa🌀 00:30, 7 September 2020 (UTC)- Comment No outstanding Cn tags at this point.—Bagumba (talk) 01:21, 7 September 2020 (UTC)
- Support. Hall of Famer with a thoroughly cited article. Dralwik|Have a Chat 01:40, 7 September 2020 (UTC)
- Citations needed at the end of a couple of paras, and a broken ref needs fixing. Stephen 02:40, 7 September 2020 (UTC)
- Weak Support Two CN tags one of which is for a claim that doesn't strike me as a controversial. All in all, it's passable. -Ad Orientem (talk) 02:42, 7 September 2020 (UTC)
- Posted Latest reference tags resolved.[1] General consensus anyways that quality is sufficient—Bagumba (talk) 04:24, 7 September 2020 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: Kesavananda Bharati
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Hindustan Times, The Hindu, Indian Express
Credits:
- Updated and nominated by Ktin (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Petitioner of a landmark case that led to the Basic structure doctrine of the Indian Constitution. Article has been edited / updated and is ready for additional eyes. Ktin (talk) 05:40, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
- Oppose no DOB, no early life, "basic structure" statement has 13 inline refs, the paragraph doesn't make clear if Kerala was imposing restrictions on him or an institution he represented, doesn't really indicate what he argued to persuade the court (given he "is acknowledged as one of the key actors" it should say more) and the article overall suffers from WP:PUFF and could use a copyedit for grammar. --LaserLegs (talk) 10:31, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
- LaserLegs, Done. Cleaned up the statement that had 13 inline refs. Now more manageable. Also added some more details of the arguments. Did a round of overall content cleanup to do away with WP:PUFF. Also see some streamlining by Destroyeraa (Thanks!) I think, in the current state, the article should be good for RD. Ktin (talk) 15:49, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
- The article says " attempts to acquire the Mutt's property" and the Matha article says "math, matha or mutt, is a Sanskrit word that means "institute or college", and it also refers to a monastery in Hinduism.". So which is it? Did Kerala attempt to get the land of an institution or an individual? This always happens with these articles where someone points out specific grievances and those grievances are addressed but no one takes the time to actually make the article worth a damn. --LaserLegs (talk) 22:22, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
- LaserLegs, Mutt is the anglicized spelling of Matta or Math, and all three are perfectly right spellings as noted here Matha. Regarding, monastery vs institute / college -- I believe they would be both. Typically in these Mutts, as I understand, the monasteries also house centers of learning. Regarding the actual sequence of events, I learnt that the state intended to acquire the land that belonged to the Mutt (as stated in the article). As the chief / head pontiff of the Mutt, the subject of the article filed the petition in the Supreme court. [2] [3]. Ktin (talk) 22:37, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
- Cool, so which "Mutt" because that's what I have been trying to figure out. Not that it matters now I guess it's posted --LaserLegs (talk) 00:05, 7 September 2020 (UTC)
- LaserLegs, all three of the Mutts (Mutt, Matha, Math) are the same as indicated here Matha. Remember that these are transliterations of words from some of the Indic languages and hence the variations in spelling which do not mean much of a difference. Ktin (talk) 00:13, 7 September 2020 (UTC)
- @Ktin: LaserLegs was asking about the specific type of institution the word means and which was represented in the court, in this case that would be a monastery of sorts. The meaning of the word should be explained in the article itself as well. Gotitbro (talk) 01:58, 7 September 2020 (UTC)
- Gotitbro, Not really. The distinction between monastery and institution of learning is usually fluid in Indic Mutts. I don't think you would be able to speak about one without the other in this case. Ktin (talk) 02:35, 7 September 2020 (UTC)
- @Ktin: LaserLegs was asking about the specific type of institution the word means and which was represented in the court, in this case that would be a monastery of sorts. The meaning of the word should be explained in the article itself as well. Gotitbro (talk) 01:58, 7 September 2020 (UTC)
- LaserLegs, all three of the Mutts (Mutt, Matha, Math) are the same as indicated here Matha. Remember that these are transliterations of words from some of the Indic languages and hence the variations in spelling which do not mean much of a difference. Ktin (talk) 00:13, 7 September 2020 (UTC)
- Cool, so which "Mutt" because that's what I have been trying to figure out. Not that it matters now I guess it's posted --LaserLegs (talk) 00:05, 7 September 2020 (UTC)
- LaserLegs, Mutt is the anglicized spelling of Matta or Math, and all three are perfectly right spellings as noted here Matha. Regarding, monastery vs institute / college -- I believe they would be both. Typically in these Mutts, as I understand, the monasteries also house centers of learning. Regarding the actual sequence of events, I learnt that the state intended to acquire the land that belonged to the Mutt (as stated in the article). As the chief / head pontiff of the Mutt, the subject of the article filed the petition in the Supreme court. [2] [3]. Ktin (talk) 22:37, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
- The article says " attempts to acquire the Mutt's property" and the Matha article says "math, matha or mutt, is a Sanskrit word that means "institute or college", and it also refers to a monastery in Hinduism.". So which is it? Did Kerala attempt to get the land of an institution or an individual? This always happens with these articles where someone points out specific grievances and those grievances are addressed but no one takes the time to actually make the article worth a damn. --LaserLegs (talk) 22:22, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
- LaserLegs, Done. Cleaned up the statement that had 13 inline refs. Now more manageable. Also added some more details of the arguments. Did a round of overall content cleanup to do away with WP:PUFF. Also see some streamlining by Destroyeraa (Thanks!) I think, in the current state, the article should be good for RD. Ktin (talk) 15:49, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
*Weak Oppose there is still a "needs additional citations" template. Otherwise, it's good. Dan the Animator 19:44, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
- Support thanks Ktin. Looks good now and sorry for the late response. Dan the Animator 17:09, 7 September 2020 (UTC)
- Dantheanimator, Thanks Dan. That was a new tag. Added additional citations for that statement. Should be good now. Please have a look. Cheers. Ktin (talk) 19:53, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
- Support A lot of improvements were carried out and it looks ready now JW 1961 Talk 21:33, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
- Support. Article looks good. -SusanLesch (talk) 23:03, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
- 'Posted" Stephen 23:04, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
September 5
September 5, 2020
(Saturday)
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RD: Nomination header
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:
- Nominated by Jenda H. (talk · give credit)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Oscar-winning Czech director Jiri Menzel has died aged 82. --Jenda H. (talk) 19:00, 7 September 2020 (UTC) Jenda H. (talk) 19:00, 7 September 2020 (UTC)
September 4
September 4, 2020
(Friday)
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(Posted) RD: Joe Williams
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): RNZ, Newshub
Credits:
- Nominated by Nixinova (talk · give credit)
- Updated by Johndavies837 (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Former PM of the Cook Islands. First notable COVID-19 death in New Zealand. Nixinova T C 22:33, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
- Support fairly decently referenced article JW 1961 Talk 22:41, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
- Support per JW 1961. Comment: as a minor suggestion, it's missing 1 in-text ref (I added the citation needed tag). Dan the Animator 02:22, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
- I've addressed that tag. Nixinova T C 06:46, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
- Support fully sourced. MurielMary (talk) 11:50, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
- Posted. Black Kite (talk) 23:58, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
(Closed) Kosovo–Serbia agreement
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Blurb: Kosovo and Serbia have agreed to normalize economic relations and Kosovo mutually recognize Israel. (Post)
News source(s): Associated Press
Credits:
- Nominated by Sakiv (talk · give credit)
- Updated by Ism schism (talk · give credit)
Article needs updating
- Oppose on shortness of the article. The agreement is clearly significant but the article needs obvious expansion to establish that. --Masem (t) 18:57, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
- Oppose per Masem. Also *Oppose blurb because it doesn't mention their recognition (both Serbia and Kosovo) of Jerusalem as Israel's capital. Dan the Animator 19:28, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
- Oppose for now per stub article.--AlphaBeta135 (talk) 19:40, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
- Oppose On article quality. The article and blurb should also stress that the normalization of relations b/w Kosovo and Serbia is limited to economic ties. Gotitbro (talk) 00:25, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
- "Serbia and Kosovo have finally come to an agreement... to open embassies in Jerusalem!" This smells like more like Trump propaganda than actual progress. GreatCaesarsGhost 00:44, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
- Well the angle is that Kosovo a Muslim "state" (not really a country) has chosen to recognize Israel but I don't see how that clicks with Kosovo normalizing relations with Serbia which is kind of a medium sized deal. --LaserLegs (talk) 01:01, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
- Oppose and SNOW close On 2 issues: 1) normalizing on economic issues means little, when neither state acknowledges the formal existence of the other. 2) Kosovo recognizing Israel is a non-news item as it is a secular state in europe, not a muslim state. Albertaont (talk) 05:54, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
- It's a majority Muslim region not an Islamic state, and it's not a country at all with limited world wide recognition. Still. --LaserLegs (talk) 12:05, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
- Oppose Unclear details and significance of the agreement, and the article itself is not informative enough.--WEBDuB (talk) 09:32, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
- The article's been substantially improved now.--Sakiv (talk) 14:53, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
- Comment: Reopened following premature non-admin closure; most of the opposes above concern article quality rather than clear notability issues. SpencerT•C 00:10, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
- Strong Oppose It is a notable event, but notability itself is not enough. We have an obligation to readers to present them with topics that have undergone fact-checking. I have raised a very serious issue on the talkpage: there never was a Kosovo-Serbia agreement. The Trump administration put forward that narrative likely for its own election-related reasons, but Kosovo and Serbia never signed an agreement with each other. Each signed a non-binding document with the Trump administration and delegations from both countries have stated that they never signed an agreement with each other. The title, the narrative and many other details must be fact-checked.--Maleschreiber (talk) 01:12, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
- Strong oppose A glorified photo op doesn't deserve front page coverage. Amanuensis Balkanicus (talk) 19:34, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: David Graeber
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian, CNN, DW
Credits:
- Nominated by Brigade Piron (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Graeber was an polemicist and one of the most publicly visible anthropologists of the last few decades. He was also a noted left-wing activist. The article has been updated by Joe Roe, Boredintheevening, Wukai and others. —Brigade Piron (talk) 15:45, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
- Support. Article looks good. -SusanLesch (talk) 17:26, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
*Oppose Missing int-text refs. Dan the Animator 19:29, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
- Support refs have been added. Thanks Bloom. Dan the Animator 02:15, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
Oppose for now per Dan above - 6 CN's remainingSupport fixed JW 1961 Talk 22:38, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
- @Dantheanimator and Joseywales1961: all "citation needed" tags have now been addressed. —Bloom6132 (talk) 00:48, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
- Support – Looks ready. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 01:23, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
- Support per above. Davey2116 (talk) 04:32, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
- Support. Prominent intellectual and activist. czar 21:03, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
- Posted. Black Kite (talk) 00:00, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
September 3
September 3, 2020
(Thursday)
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(Closed) MT New Diamond
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Blurb: Fire erupts at the MT New Diamond, a very large crude carrier in the eastern coast of Sri Lanka. (Post)
Alternative blurb: At least one person is missing in a fire which broke out at the MT New Diamond in the eastern coast of Sri Lanka.
News source(s): Channel News Asia, Reuters, France 24
Credits:
- Updated and nominated by Abishe (talk · give credit)
Article updated
- Wait At this point, its not a "disaster" as such. No oil has spilled as they rush to contain the fire, and only one person on board is missing. It could get worse, but if all that this ends up one death but no ecological impact, that's not really a ITN event. --Masem (t) 17:22, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
- Wait One death. Wait until fire is under control-more info will come. ~ Destroyeraa🌀 17:24, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
- Oppose death toll is a meaningless metric but the article is disjointed and stubbish. Write a paragraph or two on the vessel itself (builder, owner, laid down, etc). The problem with all of these articles is that they don't say much because not much is known and it'll either stay that way forever or it'll get expanded but by then it'll be opposed as "stale". Personally I don't like featuring these disaster stubs on the main page but it does seem to be the thing to do. --LaserLegs (talk) 19:35, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
- I've expanded and somewhat streamlined the article's prose, but I agree that as the effects are now, it's not really ITN-worthy. The Wicked Twisted Road (talk) 01:57, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
WaitOpposeLet see if there is a spill or more deaths.Good nom on a developing story, but now apparent not ITN-worthy. Albertaont (talk) 19:46, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
- I appreciate the sentiment, but that's a rather unfortunate way of expressing it? —Brigade Piron (talk) 21:25, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
- What's unfortunate is the event, not what we say here. – Sca (talk) 22:26, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
- They're not mutually exclusive! —Brigade Piron (talk) 09:05, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
- What's unfortunate is the event, not what we say here. – Sca (talk) 22:26, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
- I appreciate the sentiment, but that's a rather unfortunate way of expressing it? —Brigade Piron (talk) 21:25, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
- Oppose a decent amount of time has passed and it seems that this won't become the "environmental catastrophe" it was thought it could be. Still only 1 death as well and there was another accident in the Sea of Japan recently. Dan the Animator 02:33, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
- Oppose Not relevant enough for ITN.--WEBDuB (talk) 09:30, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
- Comment – Still on fire, says Reuters. Story bears watching. – Sca (talk) 12:43, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
- It's out. – Sca (talk) 14:31, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
- Comment No major deaths and the fire was put out. Though oil spill is still a worry. Looks like a close but should wait for some time to see if there are any updates. Gotitbro (talk) 00:26, 7 September 2020 (UTC)
(Posted) GW190521
Blurb: A merger of two intermediate-mass black holes is detected by LIGO and VIRGO (Post)
Alternative blurb: Massive blackhole, 100-1000 times the mass of the sun, is detected by scientists at LIGO and VIRGO.
Alternative blurb II: First-time confirmed detection of two small black holes merging near a third larger one, and associated with a coincident and uncharacteristic flash of light.
Alternative blurb III: A black hole in the mass gap is detected for the first time by LIGO and VIRGO.
News source(s): Bangkok Post Northwestern NASA, NYTimes, The Astrophysical Journal, Physical Review Letters, LIGO
Credits:
- Nominated by Banedon (talk · give credit)
- Updated by Drbogdan (talk · give credit) and Nick Levine (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Nominator's comments: Intermediate mass black hole used a bit loosely. The key point is that the black holes are in the "mass gap". Banedon (talk) 08:07, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
- Technically the gravitational wave has been observed rather than the merger. Stephen 08:20, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
- I think that is a distinction without a difference. I am not writing this; I am typing it. You are not seeing this; the light is entering your eyes which sends a signal to your brain, which interprets the signals as sight. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 08:51, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
- Perhaps I can defuse this by suggesting an alternate title: Largest observed black hole collision is detected by LIGO and VIRGO Nick Levine (talk) 11:10, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
- Most of what's significant about this event is not yet captured in the page describing it. I aim to put some effort into that now; let's see how far I get. Nick Levine (talk) 08:51, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
- I'm a little happier about this now; I've captured what I thought was most important. I think it might be worth going ahead with announcing this, while it's fresh, even though the article could do with some more work (can't they all). Nick Levine (talk) 10:05, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
- This is an interesting event, but one which has been overplayed in the media. The current blurb is misleading, as they were not IMBHs prior to the merger. The actual novelty here is finding a black hole in the mass gap, yet that's never mentioned in the article. Instead the article focuses on the idea that the product of the merger is an intermediate mass black hole, which depends on the definition you pick and the latter article shows there has been plenty of evidence of those before, even if it was more indirect. The EM counterpart stuff should be taken with a massive grain of salt; the association is far from proven. As an astronomer I find this very interesting, but I'm not convinced that a more accurate (i.e. toned down) article and blurb would appeal to ITN readers. Modest Genius talk 10:35, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
- These black holes are not just in the mass gap, they're also in the range where they can conceivably constitute 100% of dark matter (see Fig 6 of [4]). I don't know what field of astronomy you're in but I'm finding this pretty damn exciting. Banedon (talk) 12:02, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
- That appears to be WP:OR, as I've not seen any reliable sources that explicitly link GW190521 with dark matter. Modest Genius talk 12:49, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
- [5] see section 6.3 of the paper. It's not the only possible explanation, but it's a possible one, and it's pretty damn exciting. Banedon (talk) 13:05, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
- One paragraph in the section on scenarios which are "disfavored either by the data, or by low prior probability of the alternative hypothesis, or by both". Modest Genius talk 15:37, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
- They can't have written much more, given the unknown prior probability. Besides, anything they write except very general statements (which is what they've written) is likely to be wrong. They say as much, "we do not attempt to quantify such scenarios". You can be sure though cosmologists are going to be looking at the result, I already know some who are. Banedon (talk) 23:01, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
- One paragraph in the section on scenarios which are "disfavored either by the data, or by low prior probability of the alternative hypothesis, or by both". Modest Genius talk 15:37, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
- [5] see section 6.3 of the paper. It's not the only possible explanation, but it's a possible one, and it's pretty damn exciting. Banedon (talk) 13:05, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
- That appears to be WP:OR, as I've not seen any reliable sources that explicitly link GW190521 with dark matter. Modest Genius talk 12:49, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
- These black holes are not just in the mass gap, they're also in the range where they can conceivably constitute 100% of dark matter (see Fig 6 of [4]). I don't know what field of astronomy you're in but I'm finding this pretty damn exciting. Banedon (talk) 12:02, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
- Weak Oppose Pretty darn exciting. Nothing recent stated in blurb-needs to be updated. Article also needs to be expanded and updated with new info from new papers.~ Destroyeraa🌀 13:33, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
- Often scientific discoveries or conclusions from research are announced long after the actual findings, in order to allow for peer review and other rechecking. 331dot (talk) 13:36, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
- The results were published yesterday. It takes time for scientific results to be verified, analysed, written up, peer-reviewed etc. That it took a year to publish this event should not have any bearing on whether to feature it in ITN - the news is now. Modest Genius talk 15:34, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
- Often scientific discoveries or conclusions from research are announced long after the actual findings, in order to allow for peer review and other rechecking. 331dot (talk) 13:36, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
- Oppose – Lacks general impact. – Sca (talk) 14:11, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
- Comment What is new about the peer-reviewed articles published yesterday (In the article, the two that are led by "Abbott R.") compared to the number that were published in late June 2020? I think there is a valid question on staleness here, that yes, while the event was first obversed in May 2019 and it took time to understand and process the data, that was first understood in June and only this newer paper narrows down details, which is not really a "new" result. --Masem (t) 15:42, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
- Support - seems sufficiently notable - for supportive reasons presented above, esp by Bandon and Nick Levine - iac - Stay Safe and Healthy !! - Drbogdan (talk) 15:45, 3 September 2020 (UTC) - Update: added altblurb2 above for consideration => "First-time confirmed detection of two small black holes merging near a third larger one, and associated with a coincident and uncharacteristic flash of light."[1][2][3][4][5] - Drbogdan (talk) 17:09, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
- You might be looking at a wrong source - the NYT article is from June; it's currently September. Banedon (talk) 03:14, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
Comment.Support. Reading a few articles, this definitely seems huge (no pun intended) in the world of Astronomy. However, the blurb should be rewritten to draw the significance out to the larger audience. Have attempted a rewrite as Altblurb. Can do with some further polishing. [6], [7], [8] Ktin (talk) 16:47, 3 September 2020 (UTC)- Support altblurb2 Captures the significance. Nice to have some science news on ITN. Gotitbro (talk) 17:22, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
- Gotitbro, There is no Altblurb3 (at this point). Did you mean Altblurb? :) Ktin (talk) 17:37, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
- Oh, I meant altblurb2, updated my initial comment. Gotitbro (talk) 18:24, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
- Gotitbro, There is no Altblurb3 (at this point). Did you mean Altblurb? :) Ktin (talk) 17:37, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
- Support As science news goes this is fairly big, and when it’s “in the news“ is now. Article will only become significantly more informative by becoming much more technical, which (a) takes time to write and means the news is no longer current, and (b) will leave the average reader behind. I know about this stuff, but still found the LIGO press release a complex read. Nick Levine (talk) 18:20, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
- No denying this isn't interesting or cool. Fascinating. However blurb needs to reflect something about the new scientific papers - all the blurbs say right now is that LIGO and VIRGO detected the merger, which happened more than a year ago. ~ Destroyeraa🌀 21:56, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
- @Destroyeraa: and others - AFAIK - the recent studies[3][4][5] now confirm, what only *may* have been detected over a year ago,[1][2] which is all reflected in AltBlurb2 above - Drbogdan (talk) 22:17, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
- Support per above. Dan the Animator 21:39, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
- Oppose the blurbs proposed are awkward and practically inaccessible to non-experts. I appreciate it's a complex topic, but it really needs some work on getting something the majority of our readers would assimilate as usable and interesting. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 21:55, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
- Of course. It's called serving the reader. – Sca (talk) 22:28, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
- The Rambling Man TRM -- do you believe that this is an article worth posting on ITN, but, the blurbs are not doing justice and hence the oppose? If so, it will require some collective effort, but, we can polish the blurb. However, if folks believe that the article is fundamentally not for the homepage, then, no amount of polishing the blurb will help. Ktin (talk) 23:24, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
- Added Alt 3. I oppose alts 1 & 2 as probably incorrect: alt 1 because we don't know if this event is rare (we haven't exactly had gravitational wave detectors for a long time), and alt 2 because 1) there are only two black holes merging and 2) there have been other black hole mergers detected by LIGO, e.g. GW170104. Banedon (talk) 03:09, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
- Banedon: Refined Altblurb1. Removed 'rare'. It was a word I had picked from one of the news articles [9]. But, that said, removing it seems alright. Done. Ktin (talk) 04:07, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
- Support per above. I think the best Blurb is the first one proposed. Alexcalamaro (talk) 07:22, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
- Support Very good news of encyclopedic significance. Most of the proposed blurbs are a bit clumsy but Altblurb III seems to touch the point well enough.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 08:52, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
- Comment Ok, this seems to have the support to be posted, we just need to decide which blurb. Please comment below. I believe we are choosing between original and alt3? --Tone 09:13, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
- Not a lot to tell between original blurb and alt3, imho. Both sound “correct”; alt3 more enticing. Nick Levine (talk) 10:03, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
- Alt3 is the only one that doesn't contain a factual error. I would go with that, but replace the names of the detectors with 'using gravitational-wave astronomy'. Modest Genius talk 10:17, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
- I like that idea. Posting. --Tone 12:58, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
- FWIW - seems consistent with the following => According to astrophysicist Vicky Kalogera of Northwestern University, “This is the first and only firm/secure mass measurement of an intermediate mass black hole at the time of its birth ... Now we know reliably at least one way [such objects can form], through the merger of other black holes.”[6] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Drbogdan (talk • contribs) 13:08, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
- I like that idea. Posting. --Tone 12:58, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
- Post-posting comment – Re "a black hole in the mass gap" – is this similar in its effects to the chrono-synclastic infundibulum? America wants to know. – Sca (talk) 13:58, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
- Maybe "An intermediate-mass black hole is observed…" would be less jargony? The "mass gap" is just "the range between 'small' and 'large' black hole masses", which, until now, no observed black hole has been in. --47.146.63.87 (talk) 00:32, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
References
- ^ a b Cofield, Calla (25 June 2020). "Black Hole Collision May Have Exploded With Light". NASA. Retrieved 3 September 2020.
- ^ a b Overbye, Dennis (25 June 2020). "Two Black Holes Colliding Not Enough? Make It Three - Astronomers claim to have seen a flash from the merger of two black holes within the maelstrom of a third, far bigger one". The New York Times. Retrieved 3 September 2020.
- ^ a b Abbott, R.; et al. (2 September 2020). "Properties and Astrophysical Implications of the 150 M ⊙ Binary Black Hole Merger GW190521". The Astrophysical Journal. 900 (1): L13. doi:10.3847/2041-8213/aba493.
{{cite journal}}
: CS1 maint: unflagged free DOI (link) - ^ a b Abbott, R.; et al. (2 September 2020). "GW190521: A Binary Black Hole Merger with a Total Mass of 150 M ⊙". Physical Review Letters. 125 (10): 101102. doi:10.1103/PhysRevLett.125.101102.
- ^ a b Staff (2 September 2020). "GW190521: The Most Massive Black Hole collision Observed To Date" (PDF). LIGO Scientific Collaboration. Retrieved 3 September 2020.
- ^ Overbye, Dennis (3 September 2020). "These Black Holes Shouldn't Exist, but There They Are - On the far side of the universe, a collision of dark giants sheds light on an invisible process of cosmic growth". The New York Times. Retrieved 4 September 2020.
September 2
September 2, 2020
(Wednesday)
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(Posted) RD: Wick Allison
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Dallas Morning News; KXAS-TV (NBC)
Credits:
- Updated and nominated by Bloom6132 (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Bloom6132 (talk) 21:50, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
- Support — short but seems adequately sourced. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 18:47, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
- @Spencer, Stephen, and Amakuru: I think this may be ready to go. —Bloom6132 (talk) 20:00, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
- Posted. Seems OK. — Amakuru (talk) 21:48, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: Tom Seaver
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NY Times.
Credits:
- Nominated by Ad Orientem (talk · give credit)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Legendary baseball pitcher best remembered for the 1969 World Series. This is breaking news so updating is in progress. Referencing needs work. Ad Orientem (talk) 01:02, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
- Support. First ballot member of the National Baseball Hall of Fame, and his article is thorough and well-cited. Dralwik|Have a Chat 01:08, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
- Support Article is well written and sufficiently referenced. --PuzzledvegetableIs it teatime already? 01:16, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
- Support per above. Article ready and good to go. ~ Destroyeraa🌀 01:17, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
- Comment as OP. Sorry, but I have to disagree with the supports. As much as I want to see this posted, there are significant gaps in referencing and this article is not currently ready for the Main Page. -Ad Orientem (talk) 01:26, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) Comment: Rm ready; there are 11 citation needed tags in the article. Please carefully review RD items before rushing to nominate them as ready. SpencerT•C 01:28, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
- Support looks alright, the concerns above appear to have been addressed. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 10:45, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
OpposeThe "Career statistics" section is almost entirely unsourced. Those are not supported by a general stats database citation, as they refer to stats limited to niche cross sections like pitchers during a certain era, Hall of Fame pitchers, etc.—Bagumba (talk) 12:23, 3 September 2020 (UTC)- It was basically WP:TRIVIA, odd and hyperspecific superlatives like "Third most hit batsmen on a Thursday" and stuff like that. I just deleted it, the article is not worse off for it, it was all unreferenced anyways, and if something really feels the article needs it, they can find sources. --Jayron32 14:18, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
- Support Adequately sourced and ready to go with above deletions. CoatCheck (talk) 17:03, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
- Support He's a baseball hall of famer and led his team "The Miracle Mets" to the biggest upset World Series win of all time. [1] Ahseaton (talk) 23:33, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
- Comment The legacy section still needs some citations. P-K3 (talk) 23:50, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
- Support I've removed WP:OR material from the "Legacy" section. @Pawnkingthree: Have another look.—Bagumba (talk) 11:20, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
- Looks like you've addressed my concerns. Support.-- P-K3 (talk) 13:36, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
- Posted. --Floquenbeam (talk) 13:41, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: David Capel
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC, The Guardian, Cricinfo
Credits:
- Updated and nominated by Abishe (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: A renowned English cricketer and had a long playing career for Northamptonshire Cricket Club Abishe (talk) 16:38, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
- Support I checked the article when I saw his death announced on Cricinfo, and it looked like this. Excellent work with the expansion since then. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 17:16, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
- Support Short article but everything there is pretty well cited JW 1961 Talk 20:24, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
- Posted Stephen 00:25, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
RD: Kang Kek Iew
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Le Figaro, NYT, CNN
Credits:
- Nominated by Varavour (talk · give credit)
- Created by Fuzheado (talk · give credit)
- Updated by Javert2113 (talk · give credit)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: High-profile convict of crimes against humanity during the Cambodian Genocide. Varavour (talk) 16:20, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
- Weak oppose- Pretty long article, though several places need sourcing. ~ Destroyeraa🌀 21:28, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
- I'm confused. How does length count against the nomination? I (and others) have addressed all the citation tags.--Varavour (talk) 02:17, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
- It does not; it counts towards the nomination. That's why his oppo was "weak." As noted, the sourcing has a lot of issues. Thanks to Coffeeandcrumbs for the tagging. GreatCaesarsGhost 12:41, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
- I'm confused. How does length count against the nomination? I (and others) have addressed all the citation tags.--Varavour (talk) 02:17, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
- There are several paragraphs that end without a single sentence. Stephen 04:36, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
September 1
September 1, 2020
(Tuesday)
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(Posted) RD: Moose Lallo
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Rop, Ron (September 2, 2020). "Remembering Moose Lallo". Muskegon Channel. Retrieved September 2, 2020.
Credits:
- Nominated by Connormah (talk · give credit)
- Updated by Flibirigit (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Well sourced article. Connormah (talk) 16:52, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
- NOTE: I will be working on the article later today to add more citations and other copyediting. Flibirigit (talk) 19:48, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
- Completed update of article. Please comment here if there are concerns. Cheers! Flibirigit (talk) 21:58, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
- Support Thorough and referenced. Marking ready. SpencerT•C 02:08, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
- @Admins willing to post ITN: , please post. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 22:10, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: Lance Finch
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CBC News / Canadian Press; Vancouver Sun
Credits:
- Updated and nominated by Bloom6132 (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Bloom6132 (talk) 17:30, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
- Support short article but pretty well referenced JW 1961 Talk 20:28, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
Weak opposeThere's one sentence in the article about his time as a judge; any more info on notable cases he presided over? SpencerT•C 21:03, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
- @Spencer: Done. —Bloom6132 (talk) 22:22, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
- Ready. ~ Destroyeraa🌀 22:38, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
Weaksupport - Very well-referenced,though an expansion on his career as a judge will be nice. Good job @Bloom6132: for updating / expanding it. Article ready. ~ Destroyeraa🌀 21:30, 2 September 2020 (UTC)- Posted to RD. SpencerT•C 23:51, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
RD: Erick Morillo
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:
- Nominated by The Rambling Man (talk · give credit)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Almost there, death section needs filling out and awards need referencing, but everything else is sound. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 20:54, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
- Support I was just coming here to nominate him as well. Johndavies837 (talk) 21:07, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
- Comment Awards (seemingly redundant with Awards and accolades) still needs sources. The current ones don't support the awards, just the flavor text about the awards themselves. 1 CN present which may be supported by the print source.130.233.2.170 (talk) 10:56, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
- Oppose per IP. Dan the Animator 14:03, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
(Posted) RD: Barbara Judge
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Financial Times
Credits:
- Updated and nominated by TDKR Chicago 101 (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Article in good shape, well sourced and updated. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 13:50, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
- Support Long and detailed BLP, and as such the best I could do now is a quick reference spot check, which turned out just fine.130.233.2.170 (talk) 10:40, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
- Support - well-referenced, article good to go. ~ Destroyeraa🌀 21:33, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
- Posted to RD. SpencerT•C 23:50, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
(Closed) China-India border skirmishes
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Ongoing item nomination (Post)
News source(s): See article
Credits:
- Nominated by Banedon (talk · give credit)
- Updated by DiplomatTesterMan (talk · give credit), Kautilya3 (talk · give credit) and Drat8sub (talk · give credit)
Article updated
- Oppose for the same reason as last time. The last skirmish was on June 15, everything since then is diplomatic bickering. Updates are hyper reporting now commentary about the Thai Canal helping China to "surround India". No thanks, not for OG --LaserLegs (talk) 00:03, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
- Oppose has something changed in the last few months? Seems to get re-nomed every 3-4 weeks. Outside of India, doesn't seem to be ITN at all. Albertaont (talk) 07:34, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
- Oppose per above and procedural note: The
sources
field of the template is there so that editors can quickly get a feel if the current development is worthy of posting, and is especially helpful for long articles such as this one. It is a little off-putting to have to rummage through the article to find the current event which prompted this posting, only to find that it's an opinion piece.130.233.2.170 (talk) 10:45, 2 September 2020 (UTC) - Oppose The article is good, but the most important parts of the event are not happening these days.--WEBDuB (talk) 17:00, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
August 31
August 31, 2020
(Monday)
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(Posted) RD: John Thompson
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Washington Post, ESPN
Credits:
- Nominated by Rawmustard (talk · give credit)
- Updated by Williamsdoritios (talk · give credit) and Bagumba (talk · give credit)
Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Former Georgetown Hoyas men's basketball coach. Only one CN tag I see, but otherwise looks to be in good shape. rawmustard (talk) 14:45, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
OpposeMultiple outstanding CN's and a few unsourced, untagged paragraphs.—Bagumba (talk) 15:05, 31 August 2020 (UTC)- Oppose Per above too many missing cites, the whole stats section is missing any kind of reference as well. Gotitbro (talk) 20:02, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
- Support I've worked on the sourcing since my prev !vote. @Gotitbro: Please take a look again. Thanks.—Bagumba (talk) 15:38, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
- Posted to RD Referencing issues resolved. SpencerT•C 15:43, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
(Posted RD) RD/Blurb: Pranab Mukherjee
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb: Former President of India Pranab Mukherjee (pictured) dies aged 84. (Post)
News source(s): Reuters, Associated Press, New Indian Express, DNA, Hindustan Times, First Post
Credits:
- Nominated by DiplomatTesterMan (talk · give credit)
- Updated by Karthikndr (talk · give credit)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
- Support - former President of India. -- ♪Karthik♫ ♪Nadar♫ 12:35, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
- Comment How does this nomination look like for a blurb? I remember that Atal Bihari Vajpayee had one when he passed and Mikherjee is getting significant coverage. Curious. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 13:17, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
- "Pranab Mukherjee, former President of India, dies at the age of 84". His son's tweet is the main source for all news reports as of now and it does not provide any relevant details beyond this DogeChungus (talk) 13:41, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
- DogeChungus, so is that the reason Prime Minister and the current serving President of India tweets condolences? (just because his son confirms death via tweet.?) -- ♪Karthik♫ ♪Nadar♫ 13:47, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
- News sources mention his son's tweet as the conformation. Furthermore, neither persons you've mentioned elaborates relevant details beyond what's tweeted by his son. DogeChungus (talk) 14:07, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
- TDKR Chicago 101, valid point. Request submitted. -- ♪Karthik♫ ♪Nadar♫ 14:20, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
- ANI also tweeted ❯❯❯ S A H A 15:28, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
- TDKR Chicago 101, valid point. Request submitted. -- ♪Karthik♫ ♪Nadar♫ 14:20, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
- News sources mention his son's tweet as the conformation. Furthermore, neither persons you've mentioned elaborates relevant details beyond what's tweeted by his son. DogeChungus (talk) 14:07, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
- DogeChungus, so is that the reason Prime Minister and the current serving President of India tweets condolences? (just because his son confirms death via tweet.?) -- ♪Karthik♫ ♪Nadar♫ 13:47, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
- "Pranab Mukherjee, former President of India, dies at the age of 84". His son's tweet is the main source for all news reports as of now and it does not provide any relevant details beyond this DogeChungus (talk) 13:41, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
- Support: The death section is updated, and being improved further. With the news articles being published there is more to write other than the tweet. Because of Pranab Mukherjee's contribution to and influence in the Indian politics, I believe support the RD nomination. I also agree that there is scope to convert the RD and publish it as a blurb. Regards. --Titodutta (talk) 14:11, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
- Support as per nominator's comments DogeChungus (talk) 14:25, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
- Comment A scan shows one CN and the paragraph that follows it lacking a source, and one "Failed verification", and the books section lacking ISBN. This should be easy to fix to get quality there. --Masem (t) 14:29, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
- Assuming these are fixed, I Support blurb/rd, RD obviously, Blurb that I think any past sitting leader of at least a G20 country should be recognized in passing (if that's not top-of-their-field, I don't know what is...) --Masem (t) 14:33, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
- Fixed DTM (talk) 15:08, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
- Several new CN tags have been added since I last looked, so please review those. (The books have been fixed). --Masem (t) 17:08, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
- Fixed DTM (talk) 15:08, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
- Comment I have merged the RD and Blurb request, less cluttered and easier for everyone to follow. --Masem (t) 14:31, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
- Also image added to image protection queue if blurb is the option. --Masem (t) 14:33, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
- Support RD, but Comment for blurb I think the blurb needs to be updated i heard information from the guardian that he dies after tested positive COVID-19. So i needs to be included in death because Covid-19 in the COVID death article. Apart from that, the article looks a good shape. 180.244.191.60 (talk) 14:39, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
- We rarely include the reason for death in the blurb unless it was accidental (like Kobe Bryant's helicopter crash). --Masem (t) 14:42, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
- Comment The blurb says he was a former Prime Minister of India. This is not correct. He was a former President. --2405:201:7000:A004:B087:3067:CE86:8859 (talk) 14:44, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
- Updated. Thanks. -- ♪Karthik♫ ♪Nadar♫ 14:54, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
- Tentative support for a blurb; the Indian President is largely a figurehead, but even so, a figurehead of some consequence (largest democracy etc etc). I think dying after getting Covid is close enough to an accident that I'd like to see that in the blurb. Vanamonde (Talk) 14:57, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
- cause of death is not Covid, though he did contract the virus. -- ♪Karthik♫ ♪Nadar♫ 15:17, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
- comorbidity ❯❯❯ S A H A 16:01, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
- cause of death is not Covid, though he did contract the virus. -- ♪Karthik♫ ♪Nadar♫ 15:17, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
- Support - former president and minister ❯❯❯ S A H A 15:25, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
- Support RD, obviously but for a blurb a thorough check for factual inaccuracies may be needed for the article. Tayi Arajakate Talk 15:31, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
- Oppose Blurb, in line with what Black Kite has already stated, having gone through a portion of the article and the sources used. The article needs a overhaul or rewrite with higher quality sourcing which most probably isn't going to be possible in the short term. Tayi Arajakate Talk 01:29, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
- Support Blurb and RD. Agree with Masem's rationale, former head of state of a G20 nation. RIP. Ktin (talk) 15:53, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
- Support Blurb not because he was president, which is mostly a figurehead role, but because of his long and distinguished career serving in many important roles, including as leader of both legislative houses and in two major cabinet positions. Bzweebl (talk • contribs) 16:38, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
- Support Blurb Former President of India, well-known figurehead, it's like Prince Philip dying. ~ Destroyeraa🌀 16:44, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
- Which begs the question, would we have posted the death of the Queen Mother? --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 19:14, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
- Oppose Blurb the president is a figure head, completely and utterly nonequivalent in any way at all whatsoever to Bush or Obama. The Prime Minister runs the country. RD is fine. --LaserLegs (talk) 17:05, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
- @LaserLegs: Changed analogy. ~ Destroyeraa🌀 17:15, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
- Closer :) It's more like the Governor-general of Canada dying. --LaserLegs (talk) 17:20, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
- @LaserLegs: Changed analogy. ~ Destroyeraa🌀 17:15, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
- Oppose blurb. I admittedly know little of Indian government and politics, but I do know the President of India is largely a figurehead and that he at least from what I can see was not a world transformative leader. 331dot (talk) 17:24, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
- Oppose blurb Every Prime Minister of India is fine with me, but every president is a bridge too far. GreatCaesarsGhost 17:29, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
- Support RD, Oppose Blurb per LaserLegs--the Indian president is a figurehead, only Indian Prime Ministers should be in the conversation for a blurb, presidents should not unless there was a high profile assassination. NorthernFalcon (talk) 17:33, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
- Oppose blurb Neither an unexpected death nor a transformative figure.-- P-K3 (talk) 18:04, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
- Oppose blurb, Support RD. Article is good for RD. He did not have enough of a lasting impact on the international stage to warrant a blurb. Bait30 Talk 2 me pls? 18:32, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
- Comment We did post when the last Indian president died (though he was clearly more notable). While the position is ceremonial it doesn't diminish its role nor of this individual who has served in various important positions [such as the foreign minister when the largest terrorist attack in the country happened], was also awarded the highest civilian award of India [a rarely given title, unusually by an opposition government]. If we are still following the Thatcher/Mandela model then this doesn't pass but otherwise a serious consideration is due rather than focusing on the "figurehead" label. Gotitbro (talk) 19:59, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
- The prior posting was somewhat controversial, being done quickly with very few votes and before many editors had a chance to see the nom. A person is not diminished by holding a ceremonial role, but rather that role fails to elevate them to the very lofty standards for a blurb. GreatCaesarsGhost 01:03, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
- Oppose blurb, and Oppose at the moment due to being significantly undersourced. Apart from the CN tags (of which there are far too many), there are other issues. Paragraphs such as the one that begins "Mukherjee's political skills and long experience in government..." is actually completely unsourced because the source is merely a government page which explains what the work of the Cabinet Secretariat is. Furthermore, because of poor writing there are several paragraphs composed of numerous short sentences where only the last sentence is actually sourced by a reference. For example, the paragraph starting "Mukherjee returned to handling the finance of India..." has five sentences, but only the last one is sourced. There are also numerous sources from the Times of India (generally unreliable per WP:RSP), tabloid papers and blogs. Black Kite (talk) 20:13, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
Comment: Nothing else matters until this comment above is addressed.--- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 22:15, 31 August 2020 (UTC)- Coffeeandcrumbs, All citation-needed and dead-link tags have now been removed. The yellow banner is off as well. If there are additional citations needed -- if someone can tag them, I can give it a go. Cheers. Ktin (talk) 02:54, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
- Comment: I am surprised to see a few comments stating 'he was not a Prime Minister' or "President does not run the country.' This blurb nomination is important not only Dr. Mukherjee was a President, but also for his five decades of contribution and impact/influence on the Indian politics. His half-a-century contribution (see Career section in the article, various ministries he handled etc) makes him one of the most influential political leaders. --Titodutta (talk) 20:24, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
- Support on RD, weak on blurb IMO, this people that died because tested positive for COVID-19 are more to mentioned it in the blurb. Ignoring my comment on blurb, i think he is making a major contributions in Indian politics not only as the ceremonial rule of president, but how contribution are made of him in the past. 118.96.254.151 (talk) 22:27, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
- Support for blurb: subject's contribution to Indian politics alone is very significant. And, the fact that he was president (even if a ceremonial position, but this role is not exactly like Governor-general of Canada; President is the head of state of India) and received highest honour of India makes him more notable, at least, enough for warranting a blurb.--Deepak G Goswami (talk) 07:22, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
- Support RD only. The Rambling Man (Hands! Face! Space!!!!) 07:41, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
- Support RD only. – Ammarpad (talk) 08:38, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
- Posting to RD, as the consensus has formed and the article has been fixed. --Tone 10:24, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
- Oppose blurb - In order for a politician or world leader to be blurb-worthy by ITN's standards, they need to have significant world-transformative contributions to politics, not just in their national space. This is what made George H.W. Bush distinct; his actions as U.S. President affected the geopolitical spaces of many other countries. Such is not the case here.--WaltCip-(talk) 12:33, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
(Stale) Mustapha Adib Prime minister designate
Blurb: Mustapha Adib becomes the designated Prime Minister of Lebanon, replacing Hassan Diab. (Post)
News source(s): France 24, CNN, Al Jazeera
Credits:
- Updated and nominated by Abishe (talk · give credit)
Nominator's comments: The credit goes to Emmanuel Macron. Abishe (talk) 11:54, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
- Support if is officially appointed I rather to see they are appointed as official Lebanese PM. 180.254.161.72 (talk) 12:00, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
- Support when he takes office per above This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 03:05, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
- Comment Would support per above (when appointed). Could take some time to form the new cabinet though, so the nom seems premature. Gotitbro (talk) 19:17, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
- Oppose I don't think we post routine government appointment. The prime minister is a head of government and is a mere political appointee who can be hired and fired at the will of the country's head of state. If there's change of head of state (who gains legitimacy through election), then that's even ITN/R I think, but this, no.– Ammarpad (talk) 08:47, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
- Support in principle but Wait. Dan the Animator 20:14, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
- Oppose Routine internal politics of the kind we don't normally post. P-K3 (talk) 21:43, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
- Comment – If Mustapha becomes the official head of government, it might not be ITNR, but given Lebanon's recent past it would be ITN-significant. – Sca (talk) 22:05, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
- Oppose Posting of PM-designate. I am uncertain of the political mechanics of Lebanon, but at the very least I would like this to become official before considering. Of note, the list of Lebanese PM's asserts that Diab is still caretaker.130.233.2.170 (talk) 11:10, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
References
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