*{{ec}}It was pulled, correctly (not by me), and Ed posted it again. Not good. Even setting aside that [[T:ITN]] is not "things in the news" but "Wikipedia articles of reasonable quality about things in the news", you '''don't edit war on the main page'''. [[User:The ed17|The ed17]], please revert yourself and show a modicum of patience. —[[User:Cryptic|Cryptic]] 20:49, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
*{{ec}}It was pulled, correctly (not by me), and Ed posted it again. Not good. Even setting aside that [[T:ITN]] is not "things in the news" but "Wikipedia articles of reasonable quality about things in the news", you '''don't edit war on the main page'''. [[User:The ed17|The ed17]], please revert yourself and show a modicum of patience. —[[User:Cryptic|Cryptic]] 20:49, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
*ITN criterion: '''There is a sufficiently updated non-stub article''' {{U|The ed17}} please stop pissing around here, this isn't nearly funny. You don't know what you're doing. This isn't a ticker. Perhaps you aren't aware. [[User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man]] ([[User talk:The Rambling Man|talk]]) 20:50, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
*ITN criterion: '''There is a sufficiently updated non-stub article''' {{U|The ed17}} please stop pissing around here, this isn't nearly funny. You don't know what you're doing. This isn't a ticker. Perhaps you aren't aware. [[User:The Rambling Man|The Rambling Man]] ([[User talk:The Rambling Man|talk]]) 20:50, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
::Quit the condescension will you? "Maybe you don't know how Wikipedia works; it's not your playground". You're not a teacher or a parent. Be civil.--[[User:Sunshineisles2|Sunshineisles2]] ([[User talk:Sunshineisles2|talk]]) 20:54, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
::In all fairness, the Nice attack was initially posted prematurely.[[User:Lihaas|Lihaas]] ([[User talk:Lihaas|talk]]) 20:53, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
::In all fairness, the Nice attack was initially posted prematurely.[[User:Lihaas|Lihaas]] ([[User talk:Lihaas|talk]]) 20:53, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
*'''Pull and keep pulled'''. The admin repeatedly posting it should relent in the face of consensus against posting. I would like this posted ASAP but ASAP means as soon as possible, not sooner than possible, when there isn't even a blurb ready. Wikipedia is not a news agency. [[User:LjL|LjL]] ([[User talk:LjL|talk]]) 20:53, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
*'''Pull and keep pulled'''. The admin repeatedly posting it should relent in the face of consensus against posting. I would like this posted ASAP but ASAP means as soon as possible, not sooner than possible, when there isn't even a blurb ready. Wikipedia is not a news agency. [[User:LjL|LjL]] ([[User talk:LjL|talk]]) 20:53, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
This candidates page is integrated with the daily pages of Portal:Current events. A light green header appears under each daily section - it includes transcluded Portal:Current events items for that day. You can discuss ITN candidates under the header.
Blurbs are one-sentence summaries of the news story.
Altblurbs, labelled alt1, alt2, etc., are alternative suggestions to cover the same story.
A target article, bolded in text, is the focus of the story. Each blurb must have at least one such article, but you may also link non-target articles.
Articles in the Ongoing line describe events getting continuous coverage.
The Recent deaths (RD) line includes any living thing whose death was recently announced. Consensus may decide to create a blurb for a recent death.
All articles linked in the ITN template must pass our standards of review. They should be up-to-date, demonstrate relevance via good sourcing and have at least an acceptable quality.
Nomination steps
Make sure the item you want to nominate has an article that meets our minimum requirements and contains reliable coverage of a current event you want to create a blurb about. We will not post about events described in an article that fails our quality standards.
Find the correct section below for the date of the event (not the date nominated). Do not add sections for new dates manually - a bot does that for us each day at midnight (UTC).
Create a level 4 header with the article name (==== Your article here ====). Add (RD) or (Ongoing) if appropriate.
Then paste the {{ITN candidate}} template with its parameters and fill them in. The news source should be reliable, support your nomination and be in the article. Write your blurb in simple present tense. Below the template, briefly explain why we should post that event. After that, save your edit. Your nomination is ready!
You may add {{ITN note}} to the target article's talk page to let editors know about your nomination.
The better your article's quality, the better it covers the event and the wider its perceived significance (see WP:ITNSIGNIF for details), the better your chances of getting the blurb posted.
When the article is ready, updated and there is consensus to post, you can mark the item as (Ready). Remove that wording if you feel the article fails any of these necessary criteria.
Admins should always separately verify whether these criteria are met before posting blurbs marked (Ready). For more guidance, check WP:ITN/A.
If satisfied, change the header to (Posted).
Where there is no consensus, or the article's quality remains poor, change the header to (Closed) or (Not posted).
Sometimes, editors ask to retract an already-posted nomination because of a fundamental error or because consensus changed. If you feel the community supports this, remove the item and mark the item as (Pulled).
Voicing an opinion on an item
Format your comment to contain "support" or "oppose", and include a rationale for your choice. In particular, address the notability of the event, the quality of the article, and whether it has been updated.
Pick an older item to review near the bottom of this page, before the eligibility runs out and the item scrolls off the page and gets abandoned in the archive, unused and forgotten.
Review an item even if it has already been reviewed by another user. You may be the first to spot a problem, or the first to confirm that an identified problem was fixed. Piling on the list of "support!" votes will help administrators see what is ready to be posted on the Main Page.
Tell about problems in articles if you see them. Be bold and fix them yourself if you know how, or tell others if it's not possible.
Add simple "support!" or "oppose!" votes without including your reasons. Similarly, curt replies such as "who?", "meh", or "duh!" are not helpful. A vote without reasoning means little for us, please elaborate yourself.
Oppose an item just because the event is only relating to a single country, or failing to relate to one. We post a lot of such content, so these comments are generally unproductive.
Accuse other editors of supporting, opposing or nominating due to a personal bias (such as ethnocentrism). We at ITN do not handle conflicts of interest.
Comment on a story without first reading the relevant article(s).
Authorities identify the attacker as a 31-year-old Tunisian resident in France, who was killed during the exchange of gunfire with police. The man was known to police in connection with petty crime, but was not on the French intelligence service watch list. (Reuters)(BBC)
The death toll from the coup is reported to be at least 42 in Ankara and 60 across Turkey. 130 soldiers have been taken into custody and one Turkish Army general has been killed. (Reuters via Trust), (NBC News)
Nominator's comments: No article yet (and its prudish here to make one) but this is earth-shaking even if it fails. (on live tv so no sources yet) the region is run amuck! Lihaas (talk) 20:35, 15 July 2016 (UTC)![reply]
Wait until we have a clearer view of the situation, but this is HUGE. Absolutely feature, regardless of outcome.--Sunshineisles2 (talk) 20:36, 15 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Wait I agree totally. but glad theres an artile.Lihaas (talk) 20:38, 15 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support - The coup will most likely fail, but this was expected for quite some time. Gunfire was heard in Ankara, bridges across Bosphorus in Istanbul were shut down, and low flying jets were witnessed in both major cities. Very notable regardless of whether it succeeds or not. Fitzcarmalan (talk) 20:40, 15 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Posted, with the knowledge that we will have to update the blurb as news unfolds (thankfully this is Wikipedia, so we can do that ;-) ). Will be news whether or not the coup fails. Ed[talk][majestic titan] 20:42, 15 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Dude. One "wait" and one "support" and once again you're too quick to post. The "discussion" lasted for seven minutes before you posted. Pull. – Muboshgu (talk) 20:43, 15 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
This is in the news, which doesn't exactly wait for us. People will be coming wanting this news, and it's abundantly clear that this will be posted whether or not the coup fails (see Lihaas and Fitzacarmalan). Ed[talk][majestic titan] 20:45, 15 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) But the article isn't ready. There are bare url's and a statement by the military that they've taken over, but no confirmation of that. I'm not arguing that this is newsworthy and should be posted, but that it should be posted only in due course, which this was not. – Muboshgu (talk) 20:47, 15 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Pulled we don't post stubs, we don't post without consensus, we don't post without bold target articles, we don't do this kind of thing, time and time and time and time again. STOP it. If you don't understand how ITN works, don't pretend to admin it. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:46, 15 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) Agree it was way too early. But this is also earth shattering and a long time coming. love to see Russia reactions nowLihaas (talk) 20:48, 15 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
It certainly appears that way. But as we're not the journalists, we need to be more cautious on when we post things. – Muboshgu (talk) 20:53, 15 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Pull stop using ITN as your personal playground. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:49, 15 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Talking to yourself, eh? Idiot.
(edit conflict)It was pulled, correctly (not by me), and Ed posted it again. Not good. Even setting aside that T:ITN is not "things in the news" but "Wikipedia articles of reasonable quality about things in the news", you don't edit war on the main page. The ed17, please revert yourself and show a modicum of patience. —Cryptic 20:49, 15 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
ITN criterion: There is a sufficiently updated non-stub articleThe ed17 please stop pissing around here, this isn't nearly funny. You don't know what you're doing. This isn't a ticker. Perhaps you aren't aware. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:50, 15 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Quit the condescension will you? "Maybe you don't know how Wikipedia works; it's not your playground". You're not a teacher or a parent. Be civil.--Sunshineisles2 (talk) 20:54, 15 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
In all fairness, the Nice attack was initially posted prematurely.Lihaas (talk) 20:53, 15 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Pull and keep pulled. The admin repeatedly posting it should relent in the face of consensus against posting. I would like this posted ASAP but ASAP means as soon as possible, not sooner than possible, when there isn't even a blurb ready. Wikipedia is not a news agency. LjL (talk) 20:53, 15 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
[Closed] Remove "Pokémon Go" from ongoing?
Clear consensus against removal. SSTflyer 11:01, 15 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Nominator's comments: This was added to ongoing for seven hours. I see updates in prose format on releases, statistics, and online development. However, I am unsure whether those updates justify the featuring of the article in the Main Page. The July 14 news is about requesting newer gyms for Pokémon that players possess. Other ones on the same day are about raising a share price and a UK release. Other news on July 13 are just downloads statistics and German release. While this looks ongoing, I am not confident that this would interest a lot of readers, especially with so many Pokémon video games. Furthermore, an idea of presenting a video or mobile game as ongoing doesn't cross my mind. George Ho (talk) 07:40, 15 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose the nomination rationale is deeply flawed. This has already been demonstrated as being in the news globally, with stories and features being added in an ongoing manner. The Rambling Man (talk) 07:45, 15 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose – rationale reeks of WP:IDONTLIKEIT and a clear case of not reading any of the comments in the original nomination. This is the most viewed article on the English Wikipedia at present, averaging more than 700,000 views per day for four consecutive days. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 07:48, 15 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Quite, the proposer claims I am not confident that this would interest a lot of readers..., um, nope. P.S. The link is here, clearly showing more than 4 million hits in the last 8 days.... The Rambling Man (talk) 07:50, 15 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I take it the comparison of views for "cat" and "dog" isn't terribly relevant? Whoops. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 08:12, 15 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose What Cyclonebiskit says. IMO the ongoing thing is not so much about the game itself, which is fairly basic, but the social impact it has and the groundbreking new tech behind it. w.carter-Talk 07:56, 15 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - if there's any reason to take this off Ongoing, it's because it's not something that typically shows up as "ongoing" (how can a Pokemon Go be ongoing? "Pokemon Go craze" or "Aftermath of Pokemon Go launch" maybe, but "Pokemon Go"?). However, there's nowhere else to put it. It's hard to come up with a suitable blurb after all (see nomination). If it doesn't come under ongoing, where can it go? Banedon (talk) 08:14, 15 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. The nomination shows a clear lack of understanding about what Ongoing is for, and no understanding at all about why this particular story was added in particular. I very nearly snow closed this, and if I am edit conflicted saving this comment I will, as it's clear that it's not going to happen. However as it's only been open 2 hours, I'm giving it one last chance. Thryduulf (talk) 09:54, 15 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
A suspected militant of Al-Shabaab shoots and kills four Kenyan police officers at a police station in Kapenguria, Kenya, where he was being held. The militant was later killed following a shootout with police. (Reuters)
The French government calls on former European Commission chief José Manuel Barroso not to take a job with investment bank Goldman Sachs, after some EU politicians demanded Barroso be sanctioned for accepting the new position that raises questions about the EU's conflict of interest rules. (BBC)
Wait for more details.--WaltCip (talk) 22:35, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Wait slightly, but yeah, this isn't good. --Bongwarrior (talk) 22:38, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support, no need to wait, article is in usable state, reasonably cited. LjL (talk) 22:43, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Wait. Wikipedia is not a news channel. No reason for us to rush here. Wait for more details to emerge. --bender235 (talk) 22:47, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Wait until full details emerge. Lemonade51 (talk) 22:54, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Will support once more details emerge and article updated with such. -- KTC (talk) 22:57, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support - It is in the public interest to put it in the most prominent location on Wikipedia's front page so people can find it and track the story. It is in a very accurate and readable state and will continue to grow. -- Fuzheado | Talk 23:05, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support this is huge news, we should not be waiting to post. Regardless of what ITN does, we are a first port of call for many readers when these events strike. Let's not make it harder to find the article. Ed[talk][majestic titan] 23:11, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support – Notability is clear and unambiguous, only hitch is the article size. Once that's remedied this will be good to go. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 23:18, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support. I think the time period has sufficient moved towards including it. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 23:19, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Breaking news on all major news channels worldwide. Our article has to improve, but certainly will. --PanchoS (talk) 23:20, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Post Posting Support conditional on article being in decent shape. Given the nature of the situation, it's breaking news, perfection is not required. But it needs to meet minimal standards in sourcing etc. -Ad Orientem (talk) 23:33, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Can we update the blurb to a wording that does not necessarily imply all were killed/injured by being driving into, given the reported gunfire. -- KTC (talk) 23:35, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks Ed. -- KTC (talk) 23:41, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Only just heard about this tragedy here on ITN/C. This is a significant death toll, which means posting it is a no-brainer. Kurtis(talk) 23:50, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's comments: Important privacy ruling agr (talk) 15:27, 15 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Seems relatively minor aspects of privacy compared to the larger picture (court of appeals so only applies to that federal district, not nation wide or international). --MASEM (t) 16:27, 15 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Europeans do not see it as a "minor aspect of privacy." They saw the earlier ruling that was overturned as gravely undermining the EU Data Protection Directive. The government of Ireland and two European parliament members filed friend of the court briefs, as did most American internet companies. And while the ruling is law only in the second circuit, other appeals courts generally give weight to such precedents. Conflicts end up at the Supreme Court, but these are the exception not the rule. As a practical matter it will be many years before the effect of this ruling is overturned by any such conflict.--agr (talk) 17:24, 15 July 2016 (UTC).[reply]
The death toll from anti-government protests in the Indian state rises to 36 with over a thousand more being treated for injuries. Chief MinisterMehbooba Mufti has called for calm. (BBC)
In a report by Amnesty International, the group documents findings of Egyptian officials forcibly making hundreds of people disappear and face torture in the past year in an attempt to crack down on dissent in the country. (BBC)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Weak support upon sourcing improvements. He was sort of a head of state, but not of an internationally recognized state, so how he fits into the superfluous "death criteria" isn't clear in that regard. But, he seems to have been important and I see obituaries in all sorts of leading publications. – Muboshgu (talk) 16:28, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I've added a couple more to the article. How does it look? Kurtis(talk) 18:44, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
No problem - I'm glad you pointed it out. Kurtis(talk) 00:02, 15 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Where is the consensus to post? one weak support? WTF is going on here? The Rambling Man (talk) 05:40, 15 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I was actually a bit surprised at how quickly it was posted myself. I had agreed to fix the sources and Ed said he'd post it afterwards, but I thought there was a de facto holding period to gather a consensus before an RD is added. I didn't feel compelled to raise any objections, seeing as it's just an RD and Goran Hadžić was a major figure in the Yugoslav Wars. Kurtis(talk) 20:13, 15 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support for RD, albeit after-the-fact. I take Kurtis's and of course The ed17's comments as supportive of posting also, even though they didn't type "support". Newyorkbrad (talk) 17:55, 15 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
No, we're seeing IAR invoked far too frequently at the moment. If it continues, we should re-visit the "rules" so we don't have to "IA" them all the time. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:15, 15 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Well, Kurtis was the nominator, and I don't know who posted it. Did The ed? – Muboshgu (talk) 19:19, 15 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Yes. [1] So that was posted with one weak support in addition to the nominator, which isn't consensus as far as I'm concerned. Thryduulf (talk) 19:38, 15 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Nominator's comments: Normally not international news, but given Boris' reputation for "gaffes", it has generated headlines from newspapers everywhere. Midnightblueowl in particular has done a significant amount of work cleaning up Boris' article recently; it is now tag free and if there are BLP problems, they are not obvious from a cursory glance. Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 09:10, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose while it is a curiosity, I don't think the ITN section should become "In The Conservative Party News". Let's wait until Theresa tells us it's all a big joke and she had us all going there, didn't she? The Rambling Man (talk) 09:22, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Selection of cabinet officials is standard with a new government. This selection is not groundbreaking in any way. 331dot (talk) 09:25, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
While I appreciate the Daily Mail, Daily Express, Daily Mirror, Facebook, Twitter, and the "water cooler" at work are not at all reliable sources, more people seem to be talking about Boris than Theresa today, for whatever reason, and it's groundbreaking principally for reasons that TRM has implied; it is a, well, interesting choice to pick a man who called the Turkish President a "wankerer".[2]Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 09:30, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Over here people talk about Donald Trump every day but I don't think him suing an ex-aide for $10 million should be posted. May can choose whomever she thinks fit for her cabinet. 331dot (talk) 09:34, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Nope. It was mildly interesting that BJ got such a high-profile job, but it's still routine news. Black Kite (talk) 09:35, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose While perhaps the most notable of Prime Minister May's appointments, as others have said cabinet appointments are standard procedure for new leaders. To compare, we did not post any of President Obama's nominations either when made or when confirmed. - Presidentmantalk · contribs (Talkback) 14:04, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Very highly speculative news (in that it seems to beg if he will be able to perform the role now that he's confirmed for it), bordering on BLP issues. --MASEM (t) 14:11, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Support on notability, Oppose on article quality. In addition to the dozen or so {{citation needed}} tags I've found it necessary to add, there are unreferenced paragraphs and a few instances where more specificity is needed. Some of the missing citations can probably be provided by existing references, but for claims of the seriousness of those in this article sourcing needs to be clear and explicit. Thryduulf (talk) 11:38, 13 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
FugheddabouditSupport upon article improvement.--WaltCip (talk) 11:58, 13 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Capo di tutti capi is as important as it gets in the mafia. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:03, 13 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
[Posted to Ongoing] Pokémon Go
Article:Pokémon Go (talk·history·tag) Blurb: Pokémon Go surpasses Twitter in popularity following its release in the United States and Oceania, and breaks records for mobile downloads. (Post) Alternative blurb: Pokémon Go(players pictured) becomes the most played mobile game in the United States. Alternative blurb II: At its release, augmented reality game Pokémon Go(players pictured) surpasses major social media in popularity. Alternative blurb III: Phenomenon Pokémon Go(players pictured) breaks mobile download records at its release and surpasses other social media in popularity. Alternative blurb IV: Pokémon Go is released, breaking mobile download records. Alternative blurb V: Pop culture phenomenon Pokémon Go because the most active mobile game ever in the United States, surpassing Candy Crush Saga. News source(s):The Guardian, CNCC Credits:
Nominator's comments: I realize this is a tad WP:CRYSTAL, but I'm putting this out there in the event it becomes notable enough for ITN. Not intended as an advertisement. 27.115.113.102 (talk) 05:35, 13 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose until it actually becomes the most used app. Until then it's not really worth considering.---- Patar knight - chat/contributions 05:57, 13 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Weak support. Per CNBC, its now the biggest mobile game in American history, though if it keeps breaking milestones, the support will be stronger. ---- Patar knight - chat/contributions 18:29, 13 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per above and we don't know whether its popularity will sustain over time. Brandmeistertalk 09:53, 13 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support This is all over the news in so many ways that it perhaps belongs in Ongoing. Some examples. Andrew D. (talk) 11:48, 13 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The New Yorker – Pokémon Go Will Make You Crave Augmented Reality
USA TODAY – Police, agencies issue 'Pokémon Go' warnings
BBC News – US Holocaust museum asks Pokemon Go players to stop
Daily Telegraph – Pokémon GO addict stabbed while playing, refuses to get treatment
The Guardian – Senator Al Franken demands Pokémon Go release privacy information
The Guardian – Pokémon Go becomes global craze as game overtakes Twitter
Evening Standard – Commuters' fears over use of Pokémon GO on London's transport
The Economist – “Pokémon Go” shows how the real and virtual worlds are merging
Wall Street Journal – Pokémon Go' Craze Raises Safety Issues
New York Times – Times Reporter Descends Into Pokémania
God, I'm REALLY torn on this one. As someone who follows pop and tech culture, it's a bit hard to deny the impact that Pokémon Go is having on society. At the same time, we don't want to make ourselves look like a pop culture news site, when there's really no seminal story or statistic we can pinpoint as being newsworthy (or verifiable). So, regrettably, I have to weak oppose as WP:CRYSTAL.--WaltCip (talk) 11:55, 13 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Changed to weak support - The CNBC claim of "biggest mobile game in American history" is a significant milestone.--WaltCip (talk) 19:11, 13 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Weak weak oppose (per WaltCip), but I would think there's a DYK here if certain milestones on the article can be met. --MASEM (t) 14:21, 13 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose As with movies, I don't think that we should post a product just because it is getting attention. As an encyclopedia we should not seem to be advertising. I'm sure an important record will be broken sometime in the next few months (most players online at once, most revenue, a video game award, etc), and we should consider posting it at that time. Mamyles (talk) 14:55, 13 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Mamyles: "By July 12, 2016, the average daily usage of the app on Android devices exceeded Snapchat, Tinder, Instagram, and Facebook." Ed[talk][majestic titan] 16:27, 13 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose The underlying technology may be groundbreaking in the sense that it'll emerge more in the future, but this specific game will have its moment and then fade, like all other fads. – Muboshgu (talk) 16:04, 13 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
But there's nothing to point towards for a news blurb. The success of this app is still intangible. We need tangibles.--WaltCip (talk) 16:48, 13 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@WaltCip: "Pokemon Go surpasses Twitter in popularity following its release in the United States and Oceania." "Pokemon Go successful enough to raise Nintendo's stock price." "Pokemon Go becomes the fastest game to top the App Store and the Google Play." Ed[talk][majestic titan] 16:54, 13 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Is it the most downloaded application (not game, APPLICATION) of all time?--WaltCip (talk) 16:57, 13 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
No, of course not. Do you have any idea how high of a bar that is to clear? If ITN's bar is that high, what's the point of ITN? Ed[talk][majestic titan] 17:02, 13 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The privacy issue looks to be a big deal. I was just circulated a warning about this. Andrew D. (talk) 17:09, 13 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Which had been fixed in the last patch for the game. And the concern would be more if there was a breach of these did (ala the iPhone nude photo thing a few years back) which even then begs ITN-worthiness. --MASEM (t) 17:13, 13 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
And the patch then introduces new problems, of course. Like I said, this topic is Ongoing. Andrew D. (talk) 17:25, 13 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
No MMO game has ever worked perfectly on launch. See SimCity 2013.--WaltCip (talk) 17:43, 13 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose good faith nomination. Yes, pop culture can be ITN worthy, but I don't think this rises to that level. That said, I think it would make an excellent DYK nom. -Ad Orientem (talk) 17:46, 13 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support This is not just something that has to do with pop culture, this is a phenomenanon with much wider implications [3][4][5][6]. I had not heard of it before, and learned all about it from the seven o'clock version of main news programme on Swedish Television tonight. This has nothing to do with WP:CRYSTAL, this is just reflecting what is going on right now. w.carter-Talk 18:17, 13 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. I'm not averse to including popular culture at ITN, but I don't see any specific element that I consider suitable for a blurb in that section. Given the continued proliferation of smartphones and tablets, a new release becoming the most-played game on these devices (with sustained usage impossible to predict) doesn't strike me as sufficiently noteworthy. —David Levy 18:44, 13 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support but oppose current blurb. We have bosted some CoD or GTA braking records, but the current blurb is very vague. Find a better blurb that does not compare to Twitter. Nergaal (talk) 19:11, 13 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Comment as there seems to be some degree of support: the game just got released to European regions today. It is anticipated to have as much of an impact there as it did in the States. As such, it might be worthwhile to wait a few days and see if the EU size use is just as large, as that would make this a much more significant story than just the US one. --MASEM (t) 19:46, 13 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
We might as well get the article up to standard because judging from the media coverage it already has in Europe, the interest is huge. Just looking for examples like something from France I got 5 mil hits with Le Figaro taking point and same in Germany and Der Spiegel. w.carter-Talk 20:03, 13 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
If I understood what Pokémon Go is, I'd vote against it. Sca (talk) 20:33, 13 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
My reality is augmented enough every time I pull a new bill out of ye olde analog mailbox. Sca (talk) 00:14, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Weak support - notable news for being the first truly successful augmented reality & location-based game. (I'd also support changing the blurb to reflect that - saying a link to both of these articles somewhere in it.) I'd vote oppose if it was just another game - the thing is that it's a new type of (popular) game. However I'm also really hesitant when it comes to linking products in the news section - got to say I still find it more appropriate for that section than every fourth entry or so. --Fixuture (talk) 21:31, 13 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Weak support - notable news for being the first truly successful augmented reality & location-based game. (I'd also support changing the blurb to reflect that - saying a link to both of these articles somewhere in it.) Do you have any wording in mind? (Assuming that reliable sources describe Pokémon Go as the first truly successful augmented reality and location-based game, how should we communicate this in ITN's format?) —David Levy 03:03, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I would be careful with this description. Niantic, the company that developed this title, also made Ingress (video game), which was also considered "successful". It's the wildfire-like popularity here that we really need a good assessment or number here to support this fact. --MASEM (t) 03:09, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
support - this is a phenomenanon.BabbaQ (talk) 21:34, 13 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support, only because it's basically taken over the world. Thechased (talk) 22:06, 13 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support mainly because i'm expecting this to have quite a 'death toll' with stupid people chasing pokemon's on streets or near rivers or oceans or off buildings....biggest thing since The Last Starfighter--Stemoc 23:40, 13 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The roof Pokemon Chiminie should be among the biggest killers. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 01:56, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support - I was leaning neutral but was convinced by The ed17. I'm seeing a lot of coverage, and while this kind of item will never dominate headlines, it is always in the background. To say that this is a fad is a bold statement (and WP:CRYSTAL is relevant too): if one really believes that, then one should short Nintendo stock. Having more users than Twitter still isn't that impressive to me, since after all we don't post iPhone releases in spite of the total number of iPhone users being greater than the number of Twitter users, but it's still a nice milestone of significance. Comparatively the Andria train crash will not affect this many people. I'd say there are good reasons not to post this, but there are also good reasons to post it, and it's a net positive to me. Banedon (talk) 02:31, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Marked as ready – Marking as ready as support has clearly grown and it is flooding the news (and streets). The popularity of this game is incredible and is only expected to grow as its released in more countries. Although I could post, I'm a lifelong fan of Pokémon and probably have too much of a personal bias to make the decision to pull the trigger. I've also added a possible photo for usage that I took over the weekend, but it could easily be replaced by a clearer one if anyone takes the time to photograph people playing during the day. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 03:24, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
If this is gonna be posted, I think there should be a better blurb. Both current blurbs are about US and Oceania only, which doesn't look like a gauge of worldiwde popularity, and is systemic bias. Brandmeistertalk 08:13, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Brandmeister: it's only been released in the US, Australia, New Zealand, and Germany. Niantic is not releasing it elsewhere until they're comfortable their servers can handle the player load. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 08:18, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
It's been released in the UK today - well, officially anyway ... everyone and their dog appeared to have it a week ago. Black Kite (talk) 09:32, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support It's becoming extremely popular worldwide and has become a cultural hit. If that's not INT worthy then IDK what is. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 04:10, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support - Due to reasons mentioned above Sherenk1 (talk) 08:09, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support - Much as my teeth may gnash and I may wail at this, this BBC report showing a 50% rise in BBCNintendo shares means it has to be suitable. Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 09:17, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Clearly by writing about Boris, his skills of walking into a massive elephant trap have rubbed off on me... Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 09:22, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Comment happy to post this, but I'm not sure if we have a consensus on the blurb, neither of which are particularly elegant. Suggestions? The Rambling Man (talk) 09:34, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The only inclusive blurb I can think of at the moment would be something involving "phenomenon", "craze", or something along those lines, but buzzwords are a bit out of place...could just be that my brain is fried since it's 5:40 a.m. though. Other topics would be excessively general to be of much use (i.e. popularity) or the ones involving hard-facts are either US-centric or boringly financial. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 09:41, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I gave a new blurb a shot. It might be a bit vague, but it is tweakable. If you let it sit for a couple of more days, you will probably be able to add a "world-wide" somewhere in the sentence. w.carter-Talk 11:31, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
That is one good thing about nominating this ITN story; it will never, ever get stale.--WaltCip (talk) 12:13, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Weak support - This is clearly a big deal, given how many people are participating in it. It's just an unusual subject for ITN, which is why my support for it is about as strong as a freshly-caught Rattata. Kurtis(talk) 14:31, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Channging to straightforward support in an effort to Raticate any perception of an unevolved opinion. Kurtis(talk) 19:23, 15 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - We're really not going to get this story posted. There really isn't any kind of blurb that we can point to as being a core embodiment of the phenomenon. Does this need to be an ongoing item?--WaltCip (talk) 14:40, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Not posting would be a shame since the artcle is now at over 800 000 veiws/day. I'd call that notable. w.carter-Talk 14:49, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The game is free, therefore it probably should not go on a list of best selling video games. Else there would be many other games there, like Temple Run with over a billion downloads. Mamyles (talk) 14:58, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose and unmarking Ready Different blurbs with various claims that are not properly sourced information in the article. All the fanboys of this game first have to add properly sourced information to the article. And for many of the claims like more users than Twitter this also have to include information whether that is unique or whether other games also have more users than Twitter. After the facts are established and sourced, the discussion can start whether this is major enough for ITN. LoveToLondon (talk) 15:11, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
There is concensus for posting, just a disagreement over a blurb or ongoing, plus the article is properly sourced with all major achievements mentioned. Also no-personal attacks on calling a bunch of ITN regulars "fanboys". If it was editors who doesn't get involved in this area of the project, then it's a different story. Prevan (talk) 15:17, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Manners LoveToLondon, manners. I for one am a lady who've never played a mobile game in my life, but I'm very interested in things with a major inpact on society and I like the WP to reflect and inform about what's going on in the world. w.carter-Talk 16:59, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
When you write the article is properly sourced with all major achievements mentioned you are a liar - and this is not PA but a provable fact. If you disagree with being called a liar: Three of the four suggested blurbs are referring to the Twitter comparison, one of them even mentioning Twitter by name. Whether or not you are a liar can be objectively judged by searching for the word Twitter in the article. LoveToLondon (talk) 15:27, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@LoveToLondon: the claim has been displayed in the article and cited for nearly two days ("By July 12, the average daily usage of the app on Android devices exceeded Snapchat, Tinder, Instagram, and Facebook.", supported by a reference from USA Today), I think it's pretty easy to tell who is the one lying here. "After the facts are established and sourced, the discussion can start whether this is major enough for ITN." -- You clearly aren't even trying to be neutral here. At least try and make it look like you're not going after people enjoying this game. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 16:03, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
All that means is that people who have downloaded PG use it for more minutes a day than they do the other 4 apps, not that more people are using it. Careful with those stats. Black Kite (talk) 18:13, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
One lone editor angry at pop culture does not a consensus to unmark as ready make (are you going to start claiming the people playing the game should get a life and a job now?).--WaltCip (talk) 17:26, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support ongoing clearly a serious news event with major implications in several areas from business to technology, not to mention millions of page views the past few days. But there isn't a suitable blurb for this type of content. Every potential blurb that can be written on the topic is either US-centric, NPOV violating, dull business transactions, original research, trivia, and the likes. The only option here is outgoing. Prevan (talk) 15:17, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I suppose you mean "ongoing" when you write "outgoing". w.carter-Talk 16:59, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Autocorrect mistake, fixed. Prevan (talk) 17:55, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Comment – The only concrete bit I've been able to find that's blurb-worthy is that it's the biggest mobile game ever in the United States with 21 million active players by July 12. However, this is obviously problematic as it excludes other countries where the game has been a huge success. Maybe "Pokémon Go becomes the most active mobile game ever in the United States and sees exceptional worldwide activity." would work? ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 17:35, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Works for me. We post news about major national things all the time, so within guidelines and based on solid facts. The worldwide thing is just a bonus. w.carter-Talk 17:47, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
It's a little vague-sounding but definitely accurate. Just look at the craze in the one South Korean town that can actually play the game, for instance. Ed[talk][majestic titan] 18:42, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose until we can find a decent blurb. Alt1 is the best, but are we going to post this story every time a new supergame is released? Meanwhile, the main blurb, 2 and 3 are inaccurate or misleading. Black Kite (talk) 18:16, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
For context's sake, the last mobile game of this magnitude was Candy Crush in 2013 so the recurrence of this type of story is negligible. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 18:22, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
It's also a very boring blurb and refers only to the USA. Surely we can do better than that? Black Kite (talk) 18:30, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
It was released in Japan and Oceania even before the USA, though. Black Kite (talk) 18:46, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
It's actually still not out in Japan (this is a US-produced Pokémon game), and the Oceania release was about 12 hours before the US release. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 18:49, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: It looks like Stemoc's "prediction" already has come true with the first fatality. Notable enough yet? w.carter-Talk 18:50, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Not a reliable source, 95% of the information that comes out of National Report is false or misleading. Prevan (talk) 18:57, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Added fifth blurb that isn't showing up. Pokémon Go is released, breaking mobile download records. Prevan (talk) 18:52, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - per David Levy. shoy (reactions) 18:55, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Please let's not jump on the marketing bandwagon here. --bender235 (talk) 22:48, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Sharing a pop culture phenomenon that has broken activity records, is all over the news, and has essentially taken over the internet (for the time being at least) qualifies as jumping on a marketing bandwagon? Yes we ignore tabloid headlines because they come and go, but this has not waned in the least after being out for a week, it has only gotten more and more popular. Not to mention it's presently the most viewed article on the English Wikipedia and has averaged more than 800,000 views per day for three days straight. This story is objectively "In The News" across the world. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 23:13, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly. This oppose is unactionable and should be ignored. Ed[talk][majestic titan] 23:25, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Given the latest addition to ITN, I'd also be a bit unhappy about topping the Nice story with one about a computer game. I realise there's no actual policy behind this, but I'm sure you can see what I mean. Black Kite (talk) 23:52, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
We don't have a policy, we never will have a policy.--WaltCip (talk) 23:53, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The news is the news and we post it as it comes. Tailoring it to highlight particular stories based on personal interests undermines the desired objectivity of the project—this kind of idea has been shot down time and time again. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 00:07, 15 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Black Kite, this reads like reaching for any reason to not post this? Right now we have attack -> new prime minister! -> crash -> Portugal wins! -> election victory. Personally, I'd put it below the Nice attack, but it deserves to be posted. Ed[talk][majestic titan] 00:14, 15 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
No, don't get me wrong, I was talking about ITN vs ongoing. It's been posted to ongoing now, which is fine. (I don't think it'll last very long there once the initial hysteria has died down, but we'll see) Black Kite (talk) 00:30, 15 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
We'll see, it did just launch in Europe. :-) I expect a few days. Ed[talk][majestic titan] 00:36, 15 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Note, I IAR posted this to ongoing given the support above for that option and the lack of consensus on a blurb. I know I voted, so I'm okay if a neutral admin comes in and reverts. Ed[talk][majestic titan] 00:34, 15 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Also @Black Kite somewhat and others, my apology for the delay in posting the above—I got a call from family literally as I hit save on T:ITN. Ed[talk][majestic titan] 00:35, 15 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Post-posting Oppose ongoing, support blurb. For me, posting this as "ongoing" is an ugly precedent that diminishes the typical meaning of ongoing. Pokemon Go is essentially a media property. The new "news" about it will largely be a matter of record keeping as it sets new records for users, money, etc. and expands into additional territories. This has direct parallels to things like movies, books, video games, etc. I wouldn't want to see "Ongoing: Star Wars" or "Ongoing: Grand Theft Auto" or "Ongoing: Winds of Winter". A popular movie, for example, may rack up records for several weeks and generate news stories for at least as long, but would that really qualify as an "ongoing" news event? For me, I would say no. For me, I would say ongoing should be used for events like wars, the Olympics, disease outbreaks, etc., where the ongoing series of updates continues to follow new and evolving headlines and are not just a matter of counting how much money / users / etc. have been captured. That said, Pokemon Go is plenty impressive, and I have no objection to posting it as an ITN news item. I would just say that we should pick one of the records that it has broken, and use that as a hook to post a blurb. Dragons flight (talk) 13:57, 15 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think there's anything about ongoing that specifically prohibits this item being posted, and incidentally, this was posted as ongoing since there were too many variant statistics to post in a single blurb. They are all equally citeworthy.--WaltCip (talk) 14:17, 15 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Dragons flight: I'm much more in favor of a blurb, but it's awfully hard to come up with a blurb more specific than "Pokemon Go becomes an international phenomenon" that will get consensus here. Ed[talk][majestic titan] 17:15, 15 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
There's nothing in the criteria for ongoing that prohibits pop culture events/happenings from being posted. The main requirement is that the topic should be in the news and the article is receiving steady updates, both of which are present for this. The game still hasn't released worldwide so there are more developments to come rather than just statistical updates. The issue with posting a blurb is mainly with systematic bias since this is a global story but the most pertinent blurbs are US-centric. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 19:13, 15 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
[Posted] Theresa May confirmed Tory leader/Prime Minister
Nominator's comments: Next UK prime minister, absolute no brainer although not technically ITN/R. Technically, she does not become the PM until she kisses hands, but we always post when people win elections, rather than their inaugurations. We posted the Australian leadership spill last year, which was an analogous situation. Smurrayinchester 14:23, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
(As an aside, when we post this we should probably remove "UK EU membership referendum aftermath" from ongoing, since it will probably be the high point of that story for a while)
Support altblurb2 only, we need to mention that it's because Leadsom withdrew, we don't need to mention Cameron, and we definitely don't need to define May by her gender. Laura Jamieson (talk) 14:34, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Wait but support in general From the BBC article this is not confirmed yet, in that a committee needs to formally declare her to be the next PM; Leadsom's withdrawl only makes it the most likely outcome. Once the committee approves, then posting is appropriate. --MASEM (t) 14:43, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
(And since I wrote that, the exact plan has come out: David Cameron will resign after Prime Minister's Questions on Wednesday (13th May), and May will kiss hands and become PM immediately afterwards. Doesn't leave any room for an alternative outcome.) Smurrayinchester 15:07, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
So since its basically official now, support on this news. --MASEM (t) 15:11, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - suggest waiting until tomorrow (Tuesday) to allow some more work on the article, and maybe only posting when it has actually happened? Not suggesting that it won't, but waiting until she is actually PM (on Wednesday) seems like the right thing to do here. Also, the blurb won't need constant rewriting for tense if we wait until it happens before posting it. Carcharoth (talk) 15:16, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Wait Leadsom withdrawing isn't necessary. And May 'won' the contest by default so I'd rephrase the blurb to emphasise she is the next PM, something like: 'Following the leadership election....'. Maybe post this tomorrow at the earliest. Lemonade51 (talk) 15:22, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support Alt 2 per Laura Jamieson. I think "... after Andrea Leadsom's withdrawal" would be better wording though. Banedon (talk) 15:24, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Wait until she is named PM. Nergaal (talk) 15:25, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support Alt2 only but wait until she actually takes over. My support for alt2 only is per Laura Jamieson. Thryduulf (talk) 15:48, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Wait until she becomes PM. We wouldn't report the outcome of other party leadership races. Once she becomes PM, then we can say she has become the new PM. Obviously that hasn't occurred yet so we should wait. I would not expect the outcome of UKIP, Green or Labour leadership elections to be featured on the front page. Theresa becoming the Prime Minister is worthy of front page featureship, winning the leadership election is in my opinion not worthy of front page-ship. Calvin (talk) 16:56, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Wait Until Wednesday when she formally becomes PM. Then happy to Support. Miyagawa (talk) 17:04, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. Typically we post changes in an office like this at the time it becomes clear, not at the inauguration/date they actually take office. 331dot (talk) 17:06, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
For standard elections, yes. How have we handled leadership changes midstream in the past? – Muboshgu (talk) 18:11, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Given that this is a known event to happen in two days, rather than in months (like the US presidency), I can see the fair arguments to wait until the day itself. --MASEM (t) 18:14, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support posting now It is in the news now. Thue (talk) 17:56, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Wait until Wednesday, when she meets the Queen and formally becomes PM. At present she is only a party leader. There is no need to mention Leadsom. Ghmyrtle (talk) 18:29, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Wait it'll be In The News on Wednesday per ITNR. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:10, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
That's nonsense, and based on past discussions you should have known better. Like in large parts of Europe only the King/Queen is ITNR, and the Prime Minister is not. LoveToLondon (talk) 02:31, 12 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support now. Of course the blurb should be updated on Wednesday (or any other time as appropriate), but the event is sufficiently definite that I don't see the value in waiting to post. Newyorkbrad (talk) 19:15, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The reason to wait is that it will confuse some of our "limited" readers. In just over 24 hours we'll have a new PM, let's post it then. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:27, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Have you considered being less patronising and condescending? AlexTiefling (talk) 20:06, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know, have you considered being less obnoxious and time-wasting? We can always do a deal. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:08, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Wait. Does ITN ever post events with the word "will" in them? I don't recall any past occasions. Let's post what happens, not what's going to happen. So far, all that has happened is that May has won the leadership election, and the change of party leadership by itself would not merit an ITN entry. (This is not a general election, where the result is posted before the constitutional consequences are followed through). The significant event here is that party leadership in the UK system for the governing party is combined with the post of Prime Minister, and that change of office-holder can be posted in the past tense in less than 48 hours. That version (my alt 3 above) doesn't need mention of who she beat in the leadership election, as it's of less importance to the change of Prime Minister. I also agree with the earlier suggestion about removing the UK Brexit fallout from ongoing when this story is posted, since this is by far the main fallout. BencherliteTalk (using his alt account Bencherheavy) 20:25, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Bencherlite: I understand your point, but really any election-related item could be drafted in an alternative form with that word. After all, "John Smith is elected President of the United States" is exactly equivalent to "John Smith will become President of the United States next January 20th." Newyorkbrad (talk) 22:12, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Not really. If John Smith dies on January 19th, he never becomes the President of the United States next January 20th. Whatever happened in the elections still happened. Same dice for Theresa May. Anything which says "will" could always be wrong as unlikely as it seems. (In the US election, there is the complication of what actually happens on election day. Still I think we've settled on a wording that people feel accurately reflects the situation as understood by most of those well informed about the US election. In many elections there's also the added complication of the results actually being unofficial media predictions rather than final results which can take days, but perhaps that's a discussion best left for another day.) Nil Einne (talk) 06:54, 12 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Wait – 'Til she becomes PM Wednesday. Sca (talk) 21:19, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Marking as ready on Wednesday. Should be posted as soon as she has been to see Brenda, but not before. Mjroots (talk) 21:51, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Unmarking as silly, an assessment of quality will need to be made, all sorts of crap could be added between now and then. Leave it as open, and trust admins to assess the nomination as appropriate. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:59, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Hence the value of posting it now rather than waiting. Newyorkbrad (talk) 22:12, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Not at all, wait until she becomes PM, who knows what could happen in the next day or so. There's no rush, remember? The Rambling Man (talk) 22:16, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
And Ms. Clinton or Mr. Trump could hypothetically be hit by a meteor between November 8 and January 20—or perhaps a better analogy, the Electoral College might go rogue in some way. "Something unexpected might possibly happen" is not the best standard for us to use for this type of discussion. Newyorkbrad (talk) 22:25, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Let's just wait until it happens, it's ITNR after all and then we can judge the quality of the article (please, please remember to do that, don't just post it to make a point). The Rambling Man (talk) 06:01, 12 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Strongly disagree. As I've now mentioned above, there's a big difference between accurately reporting something that has happened, and claiming something "will happen" which as unlikely as it seems, could not happen. This doesn't intrisicly relate to whether we should post however you said '"Something unexpected might possibly happen" is not the best standard for us to use for this type of discussion' when it's actually an important standard. Because something unexpected happen we need to be careful and make sure we get the wording right. (Personally I think there's also a valid question whether to post something iffy which will be resolved in 24 hours, but I've always been a strong supporter of the NOTNEWS/norush philsophy and not just on ITN, but that's largely an aside to my main point.) Nil Einne (talk) 06:54, 12 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
For goodness' sake don't use Alt3 because she didn't win anything, she became PM by default because Leadsom withdrew, that's a fairly clear factual error. Laura Jamieson (talk) 22:49, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
When the UK acquires a new head of government, post it. Sca (talk) 00:17, 12 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support posting now, news outlets all over are running with this—why do people here feel the need to conflict with reliable sources? Ed[talk][majestic titan] 01:42, 12 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Absolutely support posting now - this is definitely "in the news" now and should be on the main page. MurielMary (talk) 01:54, 12 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose altblurb2 There is no good reason for mentioning Andrea Leadsom. Cameron and Brexit could be reasonable additions for the blurb if it should contain more context. Mentioning some semi-obscure politician does not make any sense, this is a minor detail that belongs to the linked article only. Mentioning Leadsom but not mentioning Cameron or Brexit is simply absurd. LoveToLondon (talk) 02:31, 12 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Since there is clear support for waiting until she actually becomes PM, I've changed the main blurb. It's now based on the one we used for the Australian leadership spill, and it sidesteps the contentious issue of whether she won the election or not. Smurrayinchester 06:09, 12 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Comment There is a significant article quality issue relating to her alleged deputy, George Osborne (until he was removed from her infobox after I added a 'citation needed').. Every recent leader of the Conservative party has one or more deputies in his/her infobox, seemingly based on a list recently removed from the article Deputy Leader of the Conservative Party (UK) for lack of citations (that article currently has no citations whatsoever). The issue can be swept under the carpet by removing Osborne from her infobox as a quick fix, but doing that will just leave the quality issue unfixed in many of the articles to which our readers can be expected to link from her article. I have neither the time nor the interest nor the competence to fix it myself, but I'm mentioning it here (and in her Talk page and that of the Deputy leader article) in the hope of bringing it to the attention of those who will know what to do about it. Tlhslobus (talk) 09:39, 12 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. In the meantime I've now added the possible Original Research tag to the Deputy Leader article as a warning to our readers and to encourage a proper fix. Tlhslobus (talk) 10:19, 12 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - definitely wait until May is in post. I had a dream that the Queen refused Cameron's resignation, appointed someone other than May as the new PM, and/or dissolved parliament (then found out she can't do that any more). Ironically, if parliament (at some later stage) voted against the Brexit referendum result, that would be a possible reason for the Queen to dissolve parliament, as from Royal_prerogative: "A dissolution is allowable, or necessary, whenever the wishes of the legislature are, or may fairly be presumed to be, different from the wishes of the nation". But again, the Fixed-terms Act abrogated most of those powers. Carcharoth (talk) 12:38, 12 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Apparently the consensus is to post tomorrow. In which case the original blurb is fine. Marked as such. --Tone 13:30, 12 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support Alt III after she assumes office. -Ad Orientem (talk) 15:06, 12 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support ALT 3 when she takes over tomorrow. Joseph2302 (talk) 19:19, 12 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support - She will be the second female PM in the UK. STSC (talk) 04:41, 13 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support waiting - So many things we thought we knew in UK politics a few weeks ago turned out to be untrue. Who knows what this afternoon might bring? GoldenRing (talk) 10:25, 13 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support the plan to post this ~16 UTC (if this comment even matters by now). I think UK has still had relatively little place in the media about upcoming heads of government compared to the US. Mikael Häggström (talk) 11:55, 13 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Just to add that Cameron is due to meet the Queen at about 1700hrs so the new PM may be appointed by about 1900hrs, given previous transfers. Calvin (talk) 13:53, 13 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support - historically important worldwide news, I was almost going to full-protect Theresa May for edit-warring, but I can't be sure I will be online to unlock it the minute she is officially confirmed in post. Anyway, yes, stick it up. Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 16:15, 13 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Post It is done. The Palace has announced the resignation of Mr. Cameron and the appointment of Mrs. May as Prime Minister. -Ad Orientem (talk) 16:44, 13 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Posted -- KTC (talk) 16:50, 13 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
A car bomb explodes at an outdoor market in Baghdad, killing at least 12 people and injuring 20 more. Bombings elsewhere in Iraq kill five more people. (Al Jazeera)(AP)
AMC Theatres is purchasing London-based Odeon & UCI Cinemas Group in a deal valued at about £921 million ($1.21 billion). AMC has 385 theaters with 5,380 screens, most in the United States. Odeon & UCI has 242 theaters and 2,236 screens in the U.K. and Ireland. AMC noted its $1.1 billion (£835 million) acquisition of Carmike Cinemas (276 thrs/2,954 scrs) (of Columbus, Georgia) is still in the works. (AP)(USA Today)
Evan Mawarire, the most visible leader of the protests in Zimbabwe, is arrested and charged with "inciting public violence and disturbing peace." (BBC)
Citibank notifies the Venezuelan government it will close the accounts of the Venezuelan Central Bank and the Bank of Venezuela in 30 days after conducting a "periodic risk management review." Venezuela relies on Citibank to conduct foreign currency transactions due to the country's strict currency controls. (UPI)
Nominator's comments: Very rare for European trains to do this, coupled with substantial death toll. The Rambling Man (talk) 13:11, 12 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support with some work on the article (currently a bunch of technical issues). --Tone 13:32, 12 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support on improvement Significant transportation incident, but would like to see more stable details in place (like # of ppl on trains before collision, any preliminary reason for the collision, etc.) --MASEM (t) 14:16, 12 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support - high death toll for a European railway accident. Article in good shape. Mjroots (talk) 14:44, 12 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support Major transportation related accident with significant loss of life. -Ad Orientem (talk) 15:04, 12 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. Near Andria not near Bari. Bari is a lit a bit far from the accident, and Andria is an important city in that region. - EugεnS¡m¡on 18:25, 12 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Makes sense. Will fix. Thanks! --Tone 18:39, 12 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
[Closed] Philippines v. China
This is not going to happen while the target article is fully protected because of NPOV content dispute. -- KTC (talk) 13:16, 13 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Nominator's comments: Territorial dispute between countries - especially when the territorial dispute involves more than two parties - are significant. - Penwhale | dance in the air and follow his steps 09:45, 12 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support: The article is already in good shape, and it looks like people are adding reaction as it comes in. However, I don't like either existing blurb: it's tricky to come up with a layperson-readable blurb, but formulations like "reef/shoal features are not entitled to exclusive economic zone" seems overly technical and downplays the interesting part (namely, that this means China loses a huge chunk of oceanic territory), while blurb one feels a bit general. Have suggested altblurb II (which also links to Great wall of sand, which I think is a pretty interesting article), and am open to improvements. Smurrayinchester 10:01, 12 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support original or alt II. Important international decision. Brandmeistertalk 11:56, 12 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support orig. – Article seems quite detailed, though rather slow in getting to the main point. Sca (talk) 14:08, 12 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support on serious improvements - No question on the subject being important, but while the article is sourced, it exhibits a lot of problems. First, I don't seen anything in the body on the actual decision, including a summary of the ruling; it would also be nice if possible to get initial statements from the reps of both countries and other directly involved parties. Second, the reaction section is one of those things that while we don't explicit disallow them, should be handled with care (see this recent VPP discussion. While important to list all the countries on which side they support, the use of flag icons goes against WP:MOSFLAG. And the proseline approach for the rest with the International bodies is really lunky. It is cleanup work that can be done in a reasonable short time. --MASEM (t) 14:13, 12 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support Alt I. preferably, then the Original as EEZ is hardly a technical term and Alt. I makes it clear that the ruling invalidates the expansiveness of all claimants, not just those of Beijing's. CaradhrasAiguo (talk) 14:17, 12 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
What if the word "Chinese" is removed from the blurb (per alt III)? Smurrayinchester 14:22, 12 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Fair enough. CaradhrasAiguo (talk) 14:26, 12 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb or alt blurb II. This is an obviously major ruling on a high profile international dispute. -Ad Orientem (talk)
Support, and like Ad Orientem I like both the original blurb and alt blurb II. --bender235 (talk) 15:06, 12 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose on article quality. No summary of the decision in the article, one orange tag (including a neutrality issues tag at the top now), and several citation needed tags hanging around. These all need to be fixed before posting. Oppose Altblurbs II and III because they blur the line between the maritime claims rejected by the PCA and claims of land-based sovereignty that the PCA did not rule on. The original blurb is confusing in this respect, so unless the martime claims or EEZs were put into it, I would oppose that as well. Preference is for Altblurb 1, since that seems to be the most technically accurate. ---- Patar knight - chat/contributions 15:15, 12 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support - Visibility will improve quality since more editors will ba able to give their voice. Shhhhwwww!! (talk) 16:16, 12 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
There's something odd about the syntax of islands "supporting" claims. Islands aren't sentient and aren't capable of supporting anything abstract. How about this streamlined version of the orig. blurb? —
The problem with that is that "Territorial disputes in the South China Sea" refers to both the maritime and island claims. The PCA only ruled that maritime claims via EEZs from the islands was invalid, but did not rule on the sovereignty of those islands. Something of a combination between the original, which indicates which country won more of their positions before the court, and the altblurb, which is the clearest and most technically correct on the ruling, would be my preferencebetter although my preference is still for Altblurb I, since per CaradhrasAiguo, the ruling negates all EEZs claims derived from the islands and other features. 17:12, 12 July 2016 (UTC).
Oppose on article quality and inaccurate blurb The ruling did mention about sovereign rights of coastal states over their continental shelf or EEZ:
647. With respect to the Philippines’ Submission No. 5, the Tribunal concludes that both Mischief Reef and Second Thomas Shoal are located within 200 nautical miles of the Philippines’ coast on the island of Palawan and are located in an area that is not overlapped by the entitlements generated by any maritime feature claimed by China. It follows, therefore, that, as between the Philippines and China, Mischief Reef and Second Thomas Shoal form part of the exclusive economic zone and continental shelf of the Philippines.
716. Based on the considerations outlined above, the Tribunal finds that China has, through the operation of its marine surveillance vessels with respect to M/V Veritas Voyager on 1 to 2 March 2011 breached Article 77 of the Convention with respect to the Philippines’ sovereign rights over the non-living resources of its continental shelf in the area of Reed Bank. The Tribunal further finds that China has, by promulgating its 2012 moratorium on fishing in the South China Sea, without exception for areas of the South China Sea falling within the exclusive economic zone of the Philippines and without limiting the moratorium to Chinese flagged vessels, breached Article 56 of the Convention with respect to the Philippines’ sovereign rights over the living resources of its exclusive economic zone. Source: PCA. --RioHondo (talk) 17:23, 12 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Mischief Reef and Second Thomas Shoal do not generate their own 200 nm EEZ, by 1203(A)(2)(b) and others. Since that is the case, when considering maritime boundary, you do not have to take those reefs/shoals into consideration. Ergo, Mischief Reef / Second Thomas Shoal would be considered "enclaves" since they are surrounded by EEZ of Philippines. - Penwhale | dance in the air and follow his steps 21:32, 12 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
You have your own interpretation but the Award has been clear on this regard.--RioHondo (talk) 03:31, 13 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support alt blurb 1. This was a ruling principally on the basis of maritime claims, not territorial claims. The court rejected to consider who actually owned the features, though they did decide that they are rocks or low tide elevations not granting an exclusive economic zone. Mamyles (talk) 18:05, 12 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Are you sure you read the ruling, specifically the one posted right above your vote? The ruling did award the maritime entitlements to the coastal State over those rocks and low tide elevations that it said "form part" of the continental shelf and exclusive economic zone of the coastal State. And that China violated the sovereign rights of the coastal State. Thats tantamount to ownership under the Law of the Sea.--RioHondo (talk) 18:31, 12 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@RioHondo: That declaration is tied to the fact that they don't generate EEZ or maritime zone. Had they ruled that they generate EEZ, then PCA would have to consider the sovereignty of said locations. - Penwhale | dance in the air and follow his steps 21:32, 12 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The sovereignty lies in their being part of the continental shelf and EEZ of the coastal State. That is crystal clear in the wording of the award. Those features are not islands hence their "sovereign rights" belong to the coastal state. So i Oppose the inaccurate wording of the first blurb, "without ruling on sovereignty", because it did.--RioHondo (talk) 01:40, 13 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Temporally opposed due to POV issues The article in its present state is still too biased, although several editors (full disclosure: myself included) have just recently tried to bring it closer to center. It might be just a few hours away from being acceptably close enough to neutral. Hammersbach (talk) 23:00, 12 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: This is big enough that it should be posted, but edit-warring has brought in full-protection to the article (10 days by Nihonjoe). - Penwhale | dance in the air and follow his steps 02:45, 13 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support original blurb. Citobun (talk) 03:24, 13 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, due to ongoing content dispute on the article. STSC (talk) 04:12, 13 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support and why is this not posted yet per Brandmeister? Notable, neutral and welll supported. μηδείς (talk) 04:29, 13 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
It's fully protected with an orange neutrality tag at the top and an RfC started to resolve the tag. At this rate it'll never get posted before it becomes stale. ---- Patar knight - chat/contributions 04:54, 13 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support per Medeis. I'm also seeing follow-up news articles on the consequences of this decision. Only reason to oppose this is quality issues, but I'd even say that posting an article with an ongoing content dispute "emphasizes Wikipedia as a dynamic resource" (from WP:ITN as a description of ITN's purpose), as one can see consensus form in real time. Banedon (talk) 07:48, 13 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose we can't post articles that are inherently unstable as a result of lack of neutrality. This is supposed to be an encyclopedia, and the main page is where we put our "quality" items. The Rambling Man (talk) 07:55, 13 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The neutrality tag appeared after earlier supports and back then the article has not been protected. Brandmeistertalk 09:04, 13 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure what relevance that has to my vote. The Rambling Man (talk) 09:38, 13 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The page is full-protected, and editors are not finding common grounds on the talk page. Doesn't seem like it'll happen at all. - Penwhale | dance in the air and follow his steps 10:24, 13 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Rebels in Aleppo launch an assault on government-controlled areas in the city. This comes after the Syrian Army blocked off the only road leading into opposition-controlled areas. According to state media, at least eight people have been killed and dozens more are wounded. (BBC)
Consensus against, and winter weather has set in. BencherliteTalk (using his alt account Bencherheavy) 14:35, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Oppose Sky paid the Premier League £4.2bn (and that was when a £ was worth something) for just three years of television coverage. This is a medium-sized deal, but nothing special. The Rambling Man (talk) 07:26, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
As you say, that was just three years of TV. WME gets the whole enchilada. Bigger sale, item-wise, and still far bigger than the Alaska Purchase, dollar-wise. InedibleHulk(talk) 07:59, July 11, 2016 (UTC)
The point was that the Sky deal pales this business deal into insignificance. The Rambling Man (talk) 08:54, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
My trail goes cold here. I'm not a great detective. You seemed to like it, others didn't. Roughly comparable there. InedibleHulk(talk) 10:17, July 11, 2016 (UTC)
Then no, it wasn't posted, and it dwarfs this deal, so little wonder there's no appetite here either. The Rambling Man (talk) 10:24, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
It dwarfs it in dollars like a two-metre chap dwarfs a six-foot dude. And it was just TV rights. Meh to it. InedibleHulk(talk) 10:27, July 11, 2016 (UTC)
Yes, it was just TV rights, so imagine the value of the "product". The deal was for just three years, not everything for ever, so yes, it dwarfs the value of this one. The Rambling Man (talk) 10:32, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I thought we were comparing deals that actually happened. If your boring product ever changes hands, I'd support it, because both sides get something huge. The Premier deal just saw Sky overpay and not care since it has bottomless pockets. A few million Brits watched football on a new channel. Meh. Anyway, can you at least not close this till more North Americans wake up? InedibleHulk(talk) 10:42, July 11, 2016 (UTC)
I'm not sure why you needed to descend to that kind of commentary, where's your evidence that William Morris Endeavor haven't overpaid for something which has flash-in-the-pan popularity? And note, that Sky deal was just the UK, the worldwide rights added another £3bn or so. It's a global sport with global popularity, the most popular sport on the planet, so it's not quite "A few million Brits" or "a new channel". The Rambling Man (talk) 10:47, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
More people worldwide watch Premier League than UFC by far, and my hat's off to it. But that deal was just for the right to air the games as far as Sky reaches. I'm not comparing the organizations' values here, just the transactions. Zuffa gets a lot of money and WME gets a lot of stuff. Premier League got a bit more money and a Sky got a lot less stuff. So this one's bilaterally bigger. WME did get a tad ripped off, but at least it can resell its stuff for something if fighting ever goes out of style.
I'm sorry for saying football is boring. It apparently isn't once you really get into it. InedibleHulk(talk) 11:19, July 11, 2016 (UTC)
Well if you're just talking transactions, this is peanuts in the world of business transactions. The Rambling Man (talk) 11:20, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Support (if confirmed) - UFC items generate news in mainstream media quite regularly, so a transaction for the entire franchise should be worth posting. As far as corporate deals go this isn't that big - Skype for example was bought for $8.5 billion. However Skype also almost never generates news in mainstream media, and it's not a sports organization either. Banedon (talk) 09:09, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. This is not a sports story but a business story that happens to involve a sports-related company. As a business deal it really isn't very significant in terms of, monetary value, number of people impacted or degree of change. If you look at just sports company transactions it is more significant, but if we post this based on that we will have to post bignumber transactions for every business sector (with arguments about what constitutes a sector and which one a given company is in) which is a rabbit hole I think we can really do without exploring. Thryduulf (talk) 09:41, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose on notability. I had never heard of the UFC before InedibleHulk started nominating it here left and right. It is never in any media in Germany, and I do not see it on English speaking news websites I visit either. From what I read, viewing figures are at around 1.6 million households, which is a joke compared to other sports events. Zwerg Nase (talk) 09:47, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
And as far I remember, I only nominated UFC 196. Still the most historic thing that ever happened on TV, I say. InedibleHulk(talk) 10:23, July 11, 2016 (UTC)
@Zwerg Nase: As stated above, "Please do not oppose an item because the event is only relating to a single country, or failing to relate to one."331dot (talk) 10:05, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@331dot: I wrote about English speaking news as well, which should cover much of the globe and especially the region of the world of particular interest to the English Wikipedia. The fact remains: This is a business and not a sports story (see the section the NYT put it in). And for business news, this is just not notable enough. For sports, even less so. Zwerg Nase (talk) 11:42, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
OK, though "not reported in Germany" is not a valid reason to oppose by itself. 331dot (talk) 11:50, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Insignificant both in terms of sporting news and a business deal. --PanchoS (talk) 10:04, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Four BEEEELLLLION dollars? Oppose. GoldenRing (talk) 10:06, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose. I am persuaded by Thryduulf's argument about the effects of this sale, which seem limited- though this is being covered in mainstream news. 331dot (talk) 10:08, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose We rarely post business deals, which this is. $4bn is indeed a lot of money, but not earth-shattering in the great scheme of the sporting world. Laura Jamieson (talk) 10:40, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose as it's just a minor business deal. Please close this immediately per WP:SNOW.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 11:20, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
That's not how it works here. Nor do you know the nationality of many of those who have already participated. Why should Americans have a special right to comment to this? The Rambling Man (talk) 11:30, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Because more of them would get it. Brazilians, too. Not a special right, just a right. I know some of your nationalities. Can these things be removed and resumed later in the day? Cultural differences aside, this hasn't even been announed yet. I think it'd be fairer to wait and see how "in the news" it gets when it's official. InedibleHulk(talk) 11:41, July 11, 2016 (UTC)
We all "get it". It's a business deal where a sports organisation has (nearly) been purchased for $4bn. That's what everyone here has noted. Can you elcuidate what it is everyone here "has not got"? The Rambling Man (talk) 11:45, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@InedibleHulk: Now you are kind of turning the ITN rulebook upside down. On the one hand, as 331dot pointed out above, we should not oppose items because they are not covered in one country or region. But this is not a one-way street. We should also not support items because some parts of the world are more inclined towards them than others. And this isn't even cricket or baseball or American Football (you know, that kind of football you play with your hands for some reason?), where the general interest in the affected countries are a lot higher than for UFC. Zwerg Nase (talk) 11:47, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I only asked if there was a rule. I'm not trying to stack the vote; those with a tendency toward F1 and stuff would be free to opine then, too. Snowclosing now would just exclude a huge chunk who are still getting ready for work or asleep. If we want a global perspective, we need the other hemisphere. I'm about ready for bed, though, so maybe just leaving this die would be the easier thing to do. It'll still actually be in the news. InedibleHulk(talk) 11:58, July 11, 2016 (UTC)
Have you seen Wikipedia talk:In the news#Timing, again? Looks like you want your own additional proposal here, i.e. keep proposals open for a minimum of 24 hours to allow all hemispheres to have their say, just in case they're asleep or in the shower or something. The Rambling Man (talk) 12:02, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
My point is that we don't do that, for any time period, either for snow posting or snow closing. So if you want to attempt to mandate that, you need to propose it. In the meantime, we'll snow close this. The Rambling Man (talk) 12:29, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Not at all, I suggest if you believe in what you've been writing for the last couple of hours, you start a discussion to enforce a 12-hour moratorium on closing any nominations. The Rambling Man (talk) 12:39, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@InedibleHulk: Though I'm opposing this particular nomination as IMO relatively insignificant, I agree we should have a 12h minimum period for closing an otherwise reasonable nomination based on relative insignificance. That would still allow obviously insignificant or otherwise ineligible nominations to be closed earlier. --PanchoS (talk) 13:50, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Yawn, I just woke up. Oh, you were waiting for me this whole time? That's nice. Oppose as minor business deal.--WaltCip (talk) 12:08, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose – Per Walt. Now for my second cup of coffee. Sca (talk) 13:53, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Even considering within the US, the UFC is not really that popular of a sport, and $4B for an entire league is relatively small when considering the value of individual teams (eg NY Yankees were $3.something billion last year). --MASEM (t) 13:59, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Made the change to July 2016 attacks in the South Sudan Civil War article. I'm fine with redirecting it to 2016 Juba clashes instead as well. Banedon (talk) 02:57, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Either works for me. I'll support this for a blurb or at least ongoing. Ed[talk][majestic titan] 03:00, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Why is this not just a flare-up? Is there evidence of sustained violence? Abductive (reasoning) 02:26, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Added a source from the Voice of America regarding the UN Security Council meeting. According to the source, "The latest fighting in Africa's newest nation was the first major outbreak of violence since Machar was reappointed vice president in April". The violence is only just breaking out; don't know yet if it will be sustained. Banedon (talk) 02:56, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
It does not give any reasonable overview of the general situation in South Sudan as bckground.
It is also to a large part a timeline instead of a proper article.
Every single claim in the article has to be double-checked - I just looked at the source of the first footnote, and it does not support the Approximately 10,000 civilians have fled parts of the city due to the clashes. claim in the crap article.
Support. Very notable event, lots of coverage. The death toll should also maybe be included in the blurb. Beejsterb (talk) 04:32, 12 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support - plenty of notable coverage, death toll etc.BabbaQ (talk) 21:35, 13 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support - Due to coverage Sherenk1 (talk) 08:10, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Comment All the support votes are useless - the people who support this have to turn 2016 Juba clashes from a timeline to an article good enough for the frontpage or it will never get to ITN. LoveToLondon (talk) 15:01, 14 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
An estimated 272 people have been killed between rival Sudan People's Liberation Army factions as clashes in the capital, Juba, continue. According to a spokesman for rebel leader and Vice President Riek Machar, South Sudan is "back to war" despite a peace deal being reached last April. (Al Jazeera)(BBC)
Protests continue in multiple cities across the United States following the death of two black men by police. Numerous confrontations and arrests have been reported. (Reuters)
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Nominator's comments: Even though it is still unclear how much they will win by, it is clear the Opposition will not win and the Coalition has won. Bill Shorten has conceded defeat and Malcolm Turnbull has claimed victory. Samuel Wiki (talk) 12:37, 10 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Comment – Article says results "may remain unconfirmed for weeks." We should be chary of posting unofficial results. However, due to the special bureaucratic circumstances of this election, it might be acceptable to insert "apparently" before "wins" and go with it. Sca (talk) 15:13, 10 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Comment The word 'apparently' or other qualifier is unnecessary, given that the opposition leader has conceded defeat. Yes, there is a greater than zero chance of the Coalition losing the election, but this is extremely unlikely. In my suggested alternative blurb below, there is more focus on winning the highest number of seats than winning the election itself.
(edit conflict) Comment Added altblurbs. I would be against the use of "wins" - elections are (debatably) not sporting events - or "apparently" which casts unreasonable doubt on the overall result. The main opposition has conceded and no one is officially challenging his attempt to form a government. Fuebaey (talk) 15:38, 10 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support first blurb, presuming the article is in good enough shape. This is a done deal now. The Coalition will be in government, either in their own right or with independent/minor party support, and that's why Labor has conceded. Jenks24 (talk) 15:51, 10 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support Alt. 3 – Fills the bill. Suggest these changes to shorten:
Yeah, I'll go for that. Changed. Fuebaey (talk) 16:03, 10 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
If we can't go with "wins", we should go alt2. We don't know whether they will have a majority and I don't really like beginning with "loses" when we're trying to say they won, either. Jenks24 (talk) 16:06, 10 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support alt 1 I think alt 1 is the safest option as they are guaranteed to have the most seats. I feel that using "wins" as in the original blurb implies a majority, which is uncertain. - Presidentmantalk · contribs (Talkback) 20:53, 10 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Posted alt 3, don't mind if someone swaps it for another alt. Ed[talk][majestic titan] 01:47, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
One or both nominated events are listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Nominator's comments: The tournament concludes with the final between Portugal and France tonight. --Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 10:07, 10 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Should point to UEFA Euro 2016 Final, which needs updating with a match report once it is finished. Maybe the main article could use some prose as well, but here I would accept just the tables as well. Zwerg Nase (talk) 12:28, 10 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Pull 1180 characters of prose, no text summary of the game. @The ed17:, the quality isn't sufficient. Compare it to UEFA Euro 2012 Final. – Muboshgu (talk) 01:55, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
... which has had four years to develop. This has the outcome of the game and all of the players/scoring/etc (scroll down) = sufficient IMHO. Ed[talk][majestic titan] 02:00, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@The ed17:Four years ago it still had 12x the prose that this article had when I made that comment. Now the size of the prose of the article has been tripled, and I consider it sufficient.. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:13, 12 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Muboshgu: Still not on board. The text of four years ago shouldn't be a floor for whether we post or not. :-p Ed[talk][majestic titan] 18:21, 12 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't say it should be a "floor", but I do think it should be a point of comparison. 1kb isn't enough prose, is my point. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:23, 12 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Pull until a prose summary of the match is included in the bolded article. One or two paragraphs at a minimum are required. The is the same reason the Wimbledon blurb was pulled. Calidum¤ 02:03, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
A prose summary has been added, didn't take much longer than the time it took to write these comments combined. ;-) Ed[talk][majestic titan] 02:22, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Comment this is the third time the posting admin has been too hasty or made mistakes when posting. Please take a break from it. The Rambling Man (talk) 07:19, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Pull regional tournament and we have the Olympics to come; was Chile's victory in the Copa América Centenario given this attention? Carlossuarez46 (talk) 00:12, 12 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Per ITNR this objection is invalid and must be ignored. LoveToLondon (talk) 02:35, 12 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
If I recall correctly, the Copa América Centenario was nominated but didn't get posted, a combination of crap article and lack of consensus to post. The Rambling Man (talk) 06:03, 12 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
"Regional tournament". Ah, so on that basis we could exclude pretty much every single tournament only open to entrants from a certain part of the world? That's the Superbowl gone, baseball, NBL, the Premier League and every other major football league ... etc. The Centenario was an exhibition tournsment. Please feel free to comment again when you understand the concept of sport. Laura Jamieson (talk) 18:30, 12 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
At least three people are killed and dozens more are wounded when protesters clash with Indian Army soldiers. The protesters defied an army curfew and took part in the funeral of a top rebel commander of Hizbul Mujahideen. (Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty)
This week, the Gambia and Tanzania outlawed child marriages. Friday, the Tanzanian High Court — in a case filed by the Msichana Initiative, a lobbying group that advocates for girls' right to education — ruled in favor of protecting girls from the harms of early marriage. And during a feast ending the Muslim holy month of Ramadan on Wednesday, The GambianPresidentYahya Jammeh announced that child and forced marriages are banned. Jammeh called on the National Assembly to quickly take up the issue. (AP)(BBC)(Human Rights Watch)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Pulitzer Prize, two George Polk awards, two Overseas Press Club awards, and the coveted Sigma Delta Chi prize for distinguished journalism for his work on Cambodia – Muboshgu (talk) 06:33, 10 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support on notability. The article looks OK but I've only skim read it (for reasons of time) so I may have missed something. Thryduulf (talk) 10:45, 10 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose article quality - several paragraphs without any citations at all. MurielMary (talk) 11:16, 10 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Article needs updating The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.
Nominator's comments: Both need match summaries. The men's final is tomorrow but the women's can be expanded, like last years article, in the mean time. Fuebaey (talk) 15:43, 9 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose the men's final hasn't even taken place, and the women's article has nothing at all to review. Pointless. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:05, 9 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I think the whole ITNR emphasis was on linking the sporting event(s) rather than the individuals' articles. In any case, you don't want to start linking articles of such magnitude, they are rife with BLP issues, lack of refs, POV, etc etc. Better we get a summary of the final on the original target page.... The Rambling Man (talk) 20:20, 9 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The Williams' notability is largely in the Internet era, so I'd imagine that could be fixed. I ran through Serena's article earlier and while I wouldn't pass it as GA, there were more sources than typical BLPs. Although IPs have gone nuts on it this afternoon. Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 20:27, 9 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Yep, the point is that the finals article is incomplete. It needs a summary and a decent one at that, then there's no problem. Better to stick with that than target the player's articles which are generally average and weakly sourced. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:30, 9 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I agree. The record should certainly be included in the blurb, but it is not necessary to target Serena's article to do that. Doubles finals are not usually mentioned. Neljack (talk) 20:33, 9 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, but we can't target the main article for the reasons TRM said. Should we just come back to this tomorrow? Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 20:38, 9 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, unless someone prepares a good summary of the ladies match now, then we can post then and append the men's final tomorrow. But right now most of the articles nominated are just left to fester by the nominator, I guess it's an attempt to gather editing forces in order to make the updates, but it seldom works and mostly ends up with the item being swamped in procedural diktat. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:45, 9 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support in principle but without mentioning any records. This win just eqalises the record for most Grand Slam titles in the Open era and doesn't set a new one; in addition, Margaret Court's ultimate record of 24 titles is still inviolable. I'd support mentioning the record when she wins the 25th Grand Slam title.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 22:25, 9 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Inviolable? Serena's only two wins away, and she's favored in the next two majors this year. I'd say she's better than 50-50 to break the record. Of course this has no bearing on the actual headline used, just wondering about your word choice. :) -- Fuzheado | Talk 00:01, 10 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I don't want to make any predictions on what may happen in the future but this win doesn't break any record that is worth posting. She may need less than a year for accomplishing it but her age shouldn't be undermined. It's interesting to see if she's going to do it, though.:)--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 08:50, 10 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support once the gentleman's final is done and the winner is known. -- Fuzheado | Talk 00:01, 10 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Unposted because I just saw what the summary looked like in the 2015 article - there's nothing of that quality in this one, and posters above did ask for summaries. Smurrayinchester 17:04, 10 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I still object to that approach I'm afraid. It would set a trend which would mean a one-line update in each player's article would be sufficient. Right now the ITNR is placing an emphasis on improving the event article and it should stay that way. The Rambling Man (talk) 10:15, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
But as you said (or at least implied) above, most articles are nowhere near the quality of these two, so I would imagine future cases would be shot down with simple arguments such as "unsourced BLP violations" or "major tags". Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 10:17, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Well not if Murray continues to win. And what happened to the women's part of the blurb, what's the target there? The Rambling Man (talk) 13:01, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support - we always post the results for Grand Slams. Surprised this isn't up already. And if the main article isn't yet up to snuff, this will provide extra ammunition for people to improve it. — Amakuru (talk) 12:56, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
See that's where I think we're mistaken. Is there any evidence that people actively improve items that aren't bold linked in ITN blurbs? I would think it would act contrary to that, i.e. the blurb is posted, why bother working on the other articles? The Rambling Man (talk) 12:59, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - I think part of the problem is that the editing activity in certain sports articles is split between sub-articles and the main article (there may also be less active editors in the tennis articles at present, but not sure about that). In this case, the editing activity is split between 2016 Wimbledon Championships and 2016 Wimbledon Championships – Men's Singles and 2016 Wimbledon Championships – Women's Singles. To those doing updates, it is not clear what level is needed in the main article and what in the sub-articles, and how much duplication/summary is needed. Having a picture from the Men's final is a real bonus here. Carcharoth (talk) 14:41, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Posted with bolding to the players' articles. This is news, and we have articles (with prose) to point to. Ed[talk][majestic titan] 18:26, 12 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Post-posting oppose once again this is premature and misses the point, that point being ITNR isn't about the individual player articles, it's about the finals articles. Seriously, stop making these posts if you don't get it. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:36, 12 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
To clarify, in the Murray article, we have a description of the final as follows: "In the final on 10 July, Murray defeated Canadian Milos Raonic in straight sets to win his second Wimbledon title and third Major title overall" one sentence. Even the odd 2016 Andy Murray tennis season article is better than that. Then Serena's article features a whole paragraph which is entirely unreferenced (actually, the whole section of that article has no reference whatsoever). Seriously, this is bollocks. Pull please, and stop playing games with ITN now, it's becoming a serious problem. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:15, 12 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
So I've pulled it, no referencing on Serena at all, and now tagged as such, this isn't how ITN works. Please remember that we may have "prose" but it has to be referenced, and we should be following norms, i.e. where is the description of each final? There isn't one. So this is not ready to post. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:20, 12 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support the pull I think TRM is right. The Wimbledon article is not up to shape to be posted as ITN/R, and having a quick glance at Serena's article, it's not either. – Muboshgu (talk) 22:33, 12 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Reinstate. This is getting ridiculous. As Ed says, this is news, and ITN is supposed to report news. The article is good enough, and there si a clear consensus above to post. — Amakuru (talk) 09:39, 13 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Wrong, the Serena article has a maintenance tag relating to this very story so it's hardly "good enough" to use a target article in the blurb now is it? The Rambling Man (talk) 09:48, 13 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Not ready the target article should be the one for the championships, and that has a short lead and one short paragraph of prose then only table after table. There is no summary of any individual matches nor any links to summaries. Thryduulf (talk) 11:43, 13 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
According to a Nigerian Army spokesman, a Boko Haram suicide bomber kills six people inside a mosque in the town of Damboa, Borno State. A second suicide bomber attempted to enter the same mosque but failed to gain entry and detonated his belt, killing only himself. (Reuters)
Typhoon Nepartak hits eastern Taiwan causing three deaths so far, 124 injuries, thousands of people to be evacuated, disrupting transport and power supplies. (Reuters)(CNN)
The death of an elderly Utah woman with a Zika virus infection in late June is the first reported Zika-related death in the continental United States. The woman had traveled to an area where Zika is spreading. The exact cause of death has not been determined; the lady had an underlying medical condition. (NBC News)(Time)
Police kill Micah X Johnson, the gunman believed responsible for the killing of five police officers and shooting of seven more in Dallas, Texas following a standoff. (Los Angeles Times)
#ThisFlag protest leader Pastor Evan Mawarire says the movement, which uses WhatsApp, Facebook, and Twitter, will hold a two-day strike next week if demands, that include sacking corrupt ministers, payment of delayed salaries, lifting of roadblocks that residents say are used by police to extract bribes, etc., are not met. A drought has aggravated the country's situation as have banks that have a daily withdrawal ceiling as low as $50. (Reuters via CNBC Africa)(Ventures Africa)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: One man run ambulance operation in Pakistan. Pakistani philanthropist, social activist, ascetic and humanitarian. Founder of the Edhi Foundation in Pakistan. 70.50.134.19 (talk) 19:06, 8 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support on improvements - Specifically the first para of Charity Work is unsourced, this needs at least a couple based on the prose. Importance given the various figures of recognition from across globe. --MASEM (t) 19:19, 8 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support on improvements per Masem. He would be a shoe-in for RD with only a fraction of the notability he has, so it's just article quality holding it back now. I've done some updating of tense, and think that's all sorted, but more sources are needed still. Thryduulf (talk) 19:38, 8 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support A notable and truly great humanitarian, RIP. EternalNomad (talk) 20:44, 8 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support on Improvements – Masem is correct (above), there are too many unsourced claims made (specifically the 1st para. of Charity Work section does stand out). And IMO there are some other statements, awkwardly worded, indicating (perhaps) that a non-native English speaker edited some of the page (ie. and that could be revised, too). Christian Roess (talk) 21:02, 8 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support on improvements Some of the existing references need fixing too, they're showing bare urls. – Muboshgu (talk) 21:10, 8 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support Fix and update ASAP. --39.46.6.156 (talk) 23:28, 8 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
This was an RD nom! Nobody here wanted a blurb. Abductive (reasoning) 00:29, 9 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, my bad. I didn't see that. I'd love to get other opinions on this—being called "the greatest living humanitarian in the world" makes it seem like he'd awfully worthy of a full blurb. Ed[talk][majestic titan] 00:40, 9 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I was hoping to fix this up before commenting. Apart from ignoring consensus and posting out of process, this reeks of WP:INVOLVED. An admin doesn't take it upon themselves to post then improve, when 4-6 others say improve then post. And no, I removed that statement earlier because the source did not explicitly state that. Fuebaey (talk) 00:47, 9 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Fuebaey:, as I said, I missed the "recent deaths nomination" line. Invoking involved is a little strange there, but if you want less content-building admins, that's the way to do it. I'm not going to apologize for trying to improve the article. ;-) Ed[talk][majestic titan] 01:01, 9 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
There's a difference between acknowledging a mistake and fixing it. If using administrative tools to employ your own personal preference against consensus is not the definition of involved, please enlighten me to what is. Fuebaey (talk) 01:26, 9 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
There have been a couple of errors from the posting admin lately, just go with caution. The Rambling Man (talk) 13:10, 9 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
RD instead of blurb I think since there was no consensus for posting a blurb, it should be removed immediately. Discussions on whether this should get a blurb and on Ed's editing of the article can take place later. - Samuel Wiki (talk) 01:51, 9 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
RD only please, there was no consensus for a blurb here. I saw the blurb and immediately thought "how did this person I've never heard a thing about get a blurb?" --AmaryllisGardenertalk 01:59, 9 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
To be fair, just because you, personally, haven't heard of the person doesn't make that a criteria for blurb-ness. I'm hoping that people see things in the blurbs all the time that they weren't aware of or don't recognize. That's the value of that news box. -- Fuzheado | Talk 14:58, 9 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Well, when I looked at his article, I didn't see much importance either. And I'd never heard of Jo Cox before her death, but her death was news-worthy because it was an assassination. This guy was in his 80s, and thus his death was not a surprise. --AmaryllisGardenertalk
Many people in the world have never heard of Alton Sterling and Philando Castile e.g Australia MP Bob Katter. so by this logic Dallas shooting doesn't deserve a blurb ? --39.46.6.156 (talk) 12:03, 9 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose blurb individual doesn't make it to the same level as those we would consider blurb-worthy... The Rambling Man (talk) 14:33, 9 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb - As Fuzheado said above, "just because you, personally, haven't heard of the person doesn't make that a criteria for blurb-ness". Sources use some grandiose text to describe him. That's an indication of strong noteworthiness, and not having heard of him before simply means one is ignorant (or biased, which isn't that different in this context). Banedon (talk) 00:49, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support when expanded and better formatted. At present a viral photograph is given equal prominence and more words than 186 deaths. The story is undoubtedly notable but the article is too far below main page standards currently. Thryduulf (talk) 08:32, 8 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Comment – I've started expanding this but there's a tremendous amount of information to cover since the flooding is so widespread and affecting so many people. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 15:56, 8 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support on improvements/stability - Obvious major natural disaster, no brainer that it should be ITN once the article is expanded sufficiently (granted it will take time due to the regional lack of news coverage) --MASEM (t) 16:14, 8 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Posted, 503 words is enough to post this important news, and it'll be expanded further in the coming hours. Ed[talk][majestic titan] 17:37, 8 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
[Posted] 2016 shooting of Dallas police officers
Article:2016 shooting of Dallas police officers (talk·history·tag) Blurb: Five police officers are killed, and six people wounded in downtown Dallas, Texas, after a shooting during a peaceful protest. (Post) Alternative blurb: Five police officers are killed, and six people wounded in downtown Dallas, Texas, after a shooting during a protest against racial discrimination by law enforcement. Alternative blurb II: Five police officers are killed, and six people wounded in a shooting in downtown Dallas, Texas, during a protest against racial discrimination by law enforcement. Alternative blurb III: Five police officers are killed in Dallas, Texas, during a protest against the shootings of Alton Sterling and of Philando Castile. News source(s):CNN, FOX News Credits:
Nominator's comments: High-profile shooting in major US city. Nakon 04:22, 8 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support major mass attack on police and civilians unheard of (police part) in the United States. Meinnaples (talk) 04:27, 8 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support, not because of the numbers but the circumstances, and part of a larger story (increasing police brutality in the United States) that we inexplicably haven't featured yet, to the best of my knowledge. --Bongwarrior (talk) 05:02, 8 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support But "peaceful protest" is not neutral language, and it makes little sense in context (was it peaceful or were there multiple homicides?). - Lvthn13 (talk) 05:09, 8 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I'm good with changing that initial copy to be more neutral and I can remove the adjective "peaceful". Nakon 05:12, 8 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Agree, cannot support until wording is more neutral. — Crumpled Fire • contribs • 05:15, 8 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
What would you recommend for wording? Nakon 05:17, 8 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Removing the word "peaceful" would be sufficient for me. Also, according to our article, 8 were non-fatally injured not 11. — Crumpled Fire • contribs • 05:23, 8 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I don't have any objection to removing "peaceful" from the blurb candidate. The sources I'm watching still show 11 injuries and 4 fatalities. Nakon 05:26, 8 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Four police officers are killed and seven are wounded at a protest in Dallas, Texas. Eliminates all cruft and potential for error, as everything in that statement is unequivocally true (adjusting numbers per updates). Additional information can all go in the article where it has full context and virtually unlimited room for adequate explanation. - Lvthn13 (talk) 05:27, 8 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
This copy looks good to me. Thanks, Nakon 05:29, 8 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
It's not 4 dead + 11 wounded. Its 11 shot of whom 4 have died. -Ad Orientem (talk) 05:33, 8 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
3 DPD and 1 DART officer down, 7 others, with 11 total injuries. Thanks for the clarification. Nakon 05:38, 8 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support Mass shootings in the United States may not be rare, but shootings targeting police are. The blurb needs to be tweaked. The officers were not shot "after" the shooting. -Ad Orientem (talk) 05:14, 8 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support posting a blurb on killings of police officers AND mentioning racial tensions. Nergaal (talk) 05:49, 8 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support Alt Blurb 2 as best wording currently listed. — Crumpled Fire • contribs • 05:50, 8 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I think that just pointing out the shooting of the cops is not really giving the whole story, given that the protests were in response to the two shootings by police (elsewhere in the US) in the last two days. I think both of those events Shooting of Alton Sterling and Shooting of Philando Castile need to be included too on the blurb because not explaining the nature of the protest doesn't show the reason for the resulting tension and shootings. That siad, I would weak oppose this, as it very much a narrow regional story with no clear larger impact, and given how we haven't really posted any of these other shootings from the past couple years. --MASEM (t) 05:54, 8 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose per Masem, "it very much a narrow regional story with no clear larger impact, and given how we haven't really posted any of these other shootings from the past couple years". I think the Medina bombing is more worthy of posting than this (for now at least, as this is a developing story - if this continues to be covered in mainstream media I'll switch to support). Banedon (talk) 06:18, 8 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose per Masem, would support a blurb that incorporated Shooting of Alton Sterling and Shooting of Philando Castile, which are what make this not just another horrible localised random attack but an actual nightmare situation of national/worldwide significance.Support altblurb IIISmurrayinchester 06:32, 8 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I doubt this will ever become an item of worldwide significance, since it after all only involves the US police force ... adding alt blurb III anyway, to include the two articles mentioned by Masem. Banedon (talk) 06:43, 8 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per Masem. Neljack (talk) 07:09, 8 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support, "regionalism", tag-on arguments above should be discounted per ITN rules. Abductive (reasoning) 07:21, 8 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Identifying an issue as having only local or regional interest is not against ITN rules - it's bias on nationality that is not supposed to be argued. --MASEM (t) 13:57, 8 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support (alt 3) – escalation of violence in an already tense situation. Local significance is quite clear which is sufficient for ITN. For the sake of context, the shootings of Sterling and Castile should also be included in the blurb as suggested above. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 07:27, 8 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support - very important; not merely regional Donama (talk) 07:32, 8 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Pull immediately How the hell is this newsworthy? 5 people die every 5 seconds. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.192.29.88 (talk) 13:38, 8 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
It's in the news. It's got a consensus. It's posted. Move on.--WaltCip (talk) 13:47, 8 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
It's a new sort of shooting incident for the U.S. Sca (talk) 14:04, 8 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, 9 people die every 5 seconds. If you're going to get all hysterical about it and offer some kind of strawman, please get your facts straight IP. The Rambling Man (talk) 16:50, 8 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Post-posting support - if this had been a "radical Muslim/Islamic terrorist group", then it would certainly be posted. I would argue that, in a way, this incites (or incited) fear and terror of people on a widespread scale, far beyond the "regional" impact of Dallas. And it is not clear whether in fact this is actually some form of domestic terrorism. 2607:FEA8:A260:4BE:A00A:3F33:77D5:507B (talk) 16:58, 8 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support, obviously. This event is in the news. The template is called in the news. Ed[talk][majestic titan] 17:38, 8 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
comment without prejudice ITNC does not always use that reasoning.Lihaas (talk) 21:02, 8 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Nominators often include links to external websites and other references in discussions on this page. It is usually best to provide such links using the inline URL syntax [http://example.com] rather than using <ref></ref> tags, because that keeps all the relevant information in the same place as the nomination without having to jump to this section, and facilitates the archiving process.
For the times when <ref></ref> tags are being used, here are their contents:
In the news toolbox_(cropped).jpg)
