User:Rich Farmbrough/Talk Archive Mega2

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2010-2011 inclusive

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Stephen Day the musician page


I am wondering if you can help us with the Stephen Day musician page that keeps getting replaced by the Stephen Day politician page. How do we categorize the two as different so that one doesn't replace the other?Shmi222 (talk) 18:25, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

well you don;t cut and paste move Stephen Day (musician) over Stephen Day for s start. Rich Farmbrough, 22:43, 29 December 2009 (UTC).
I saw this on your talk page, so I created Stephen Day (disambiguation).--Toddy1 (talk) 07:15, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Your input is requested

Please see Category_talk:Pages_containing_cite_templates_with_deprecated_parameters#Add_access-date_too. Debresser (talk) 13:52, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Test templates

I don't understand what kind of template is populating Category:TestTemplates. Could you please explain that to me? Debresser (talk) 23:55, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Should be Category:User page notices about inappropriate edits maybe. Rich Farmbrough, 13:29, 2 January 2010 (UTC).


What I did was submit a fairly open-ended BRFA. See Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/Xenobot 6, for example.

Function Overview: Find and replace jobs

Edit period(s): Occasionally (when consensus exists for a job)

Then, when a user presents me with a find & replace job that has consensus, I can run it under this task without having to make a new BRFA. That's what I would suggest you do. –xenotalk 18:26, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Looks sound. Rich Farmbrough, 19:02, 31 December 2009 (UTC).
I also think this is a good idea. There's some apparent beefing about something you do, but in general your edits are useful, appropriate to a bot, and backed by consensus through MOS or something. You also generally communicate with members of the community when they have problems with your edits. All this spells: sure, bot okay and flag. Some BAG members don't like lots of edits that show up in logs that are not substantive changes to the article. Other editors, myself in this batch, don't like untidiness in articles. Cleaning up, standardizing is worthwhile, and it should be done by bots according to MOS, imo. Have a little patience (don't mention glass houses in response, it will be ignored). --IP69.226.103.13 | Talk about me. 21:04, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

You're brilliant

Really. Deceptively simple, yet fabulous. :) Now that I'm catching up a bit from the Christmas backlog, I just wanted to let you know how much I have appreciated your help with that. Sometimes looking for assistance on Wikipedia can get a wee bit frustrating. Thank you for taking my question seriously and helping me out. I am grateful. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 22:09, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Ah, you make me blush, you are most welcome. Rich Farmbrough, 22:31, 1 January 2010 (UTC).

Please help about that pharagraph

"However, the evidence for this once popular view is slim. It is more likely that the name refers to the place of his birth, ‘Ebrā, where the old road east of Malatya towards Kharput (modern Elazığ) and Amid (modern Diyarbakır) crossed the Euphrates.[2]" (BAR EBROYO)

Could you please give me some knowlegde about that paragraph. Everybody says that he is from malatya but according to that pharagraph he is from Elazığ. It is very important for us. Please tell me where did you read that and how can we learn more about that subject. Regards... —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 11:40, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

Date conversions

I've been away from WP for a while. What's happening with User:Pigsonthewing/to-do#Date conversions, please? Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 14:52, 2 January 2010 (UTC)


I'd like the thankyou for your impressive edits you made in 2009. Wherever I look you've made some contribution towards formatting, consistency and cosmetics all over the encyclopedia. even if the subject is not to your fascination. Keep up the good work in 2010 and haope you have a happy new year. Best regards. Dr. Blofeld White cat 19:47, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

+1 --MZMcBride (talk) 20:06, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
Same here. And less opposition... Debresser (talk) 20:15, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
A cup o java for your fine edits. Coffee // have a cup // ark // 23:00, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
Ohconfucius congratulates Rich for his approach to hard problems without the sticky solution ;-) Ohconfucius ¡digame! 02:35, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
+1 Rjwilmsi 00:00, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

Well, that's much appreciated all. Nice start to the new year. Rich Farmbrough, 02:54, 1 January 2010 (UTC).


You're absolutely right; in the deletion discussion, the template's purpose was completely missed. I hope that we can determine which articles the template was removed from. —David Levy 14:25, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

Even though because of the changes you made to the template I now understand its purpose, I still think that it should remain merge with {{Cleanup}}. If it is used for articles with lists, just use {{Cleanup-list}}. Debresser (talk) 18:10, 2 January 2010 (UTC)


Please see Template_talk:Cite_book#date.2C_year.2C_or_either.3F, where a discussion is starting, which is closely related to the idea you mentioned of deprecating |month= and |year=. There seem to be repercursions to that. Debresser (talk) 18:04, 2 January 2010 (UTC)


Hi Rich. I went through the recent changes looking for an admin online, and you're it. I was wondering if you could add me to the list of users who may use the application Kissle. Tim Song is on vacation and can't at the moment, and asked that any requests be forwarded to another admin. Thanks, ~SuperHamster Talk Contribs 00:56, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

I will, thanks for your assistance. ~SuperHamster Talk Contribs 01:53, 3 January 2010 (UTC)


Hi, Rich Farmbrough

I noticed that you often removed {{date}} from articles, which formats dates according to Manual of Style and per user Preferences. I'm curious to know why. Is there something wrong with it? Fleet Command (talk) 12:39, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Well there's some confusion about what this template does:
  • Formats dates - Yes - if they are parseable by the PHP time function
  • according to MoS - Maybe - depends what parameters it is given and where it is used
  • and according to user preferences - No - It does not do this and it would be a bad thing if it did.
So in articles the template is redundant or misleading - for example (using less curlies for speed) {date|12 July 2009} is the same as "12 July 2009" and the same as {date|12 July 2009|dmy}. However {date|12 July 2009|mdy} would be rendered as "July 12, 2009" which is what I am replacing it with.
Rich Farmbrough, 12:46, 1 January 2010 (UTC).
Oh the template has another use to give today's date, this is good coding, but not a great interface. Rich Farmbrough, 12:48, 1 January 2010 (UTC).
I see. So, why MDY? Is DMY rejected by manual of style? And by the way, do you know anything about {{#dateformat}}? Oh, and I saw in several instances you've added mf=yes to {{start date and age}} in infoboxes but the template has no such parameter. What is that? Fleet Command (talk) 13:11, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
The date format used in any given article is determined predominantly by the nationality of its subject, and by usage issues. It's not that dmy is no good, but probably that it was inappropriate for the article in question - you did not give an example. As for {{#dateformat}}, it is used only in a small handful of articles (if any), and was a recent attempt at autoformatting by certain programmers, despite the fact that its use (and autoformatting) does not appear to have consensus backing. Ohconfucius ¡digame! 13:25, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
I asked because until now I used DMY or yyyy-mm-dd throughout all Wikipedia, both enclosed in {{date}}. I had previously read in Help pages that {{date}} formats dates per user preferences. Must have been a mistake which is corrected soon after I read it; unfortunate me! Once or twice, I run stumbled upon Rich edits wherein he had undid {{date}} and added mf parameters to infoboxes. When I did, I cursed buggy automated scripts under my breath and undid his edits. But then, I encounter edits that could have not been automated. So I asked. Now, it is clarified.
As for the subject, I mostly edit computer-related articles, mostly internationally-famous topics. (E.g. Microsoft Office, Paint.NET, Pixel aspect ratio, Cryptography, Microsoft Security Essentials, etc.) The subject is the whole world. So, according to Calendar date#List of the world locations by date format in use, I should use DMY, shouldn't I? Fleet Command (talk) 18:07, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Ah I wasn't clear:

  • {date|12 July 2009|mdy} I replace with "July 12, 2009"
  • {date|12 July 2009|dmy} I replace with "12 July 2009"

In other words I am not changing the appearance of the date.

And I assume you convert {{Date|12 July 2009}} into 12 July 2009, right?

The #formatdate function? See Wikipedia:Magic_words#formatting "there is considerable opposition to use of this function"

mf=y - this makes it clear that the choice of format is explicitly made not merely the default. I added df to "Birth date" and "death date and age" some years ago, maybe a better solution could have been found, but that propagated to the various templates of that ilk. Rich Farmbrough, 13:33, 1 January 2010 (UTC).

I checked {{Birth date}} and {{Death date}} source codes. Yes, they had a df parameter specified in them. But {{Start date and age}} has not mf parameters in its source code.
Anyways thanks, Rich. Fleet Command (talk) 18:07, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
You are welcome; to clarify the clarification "mf=y" is a message to editors not to the system. Rich Farmbrough, 20:06, 1 January 2010 (UTC).

Could you please explain me your substitutions of the date template? I've looked at Template:Date and I have found no problem at all. - Esteban Zissou (talk) 13:47, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

In a nutshell the template has no useful function on an article page (except to display the current date and there are better ways to do that). Rich Farmbrough, 13:51, 2 January 2010 (UTC).
Fair enough, keep an eye out for where it might not be appropriate to put in a hard-coded date. For example, this edit where '{{date||dmy}}' was in use to show the current date. Agreed with the second point, perhaps there is a better way (what is it?), but changing it from the current date to hard-coded can be easy to miss for quite some time. Cander0000 (talk) 01:12, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
Yes that is true, conversely [1] or [2]...
And even an alias such as {Today's date} (for example) would be good. But better not to call a fairly complex template for a fairly lightweight job. How about {{Today (dmy)}} {{Today (mdy)}}? Rich Farmbrough, 01:20, 3 January 2010 (UTC).
Exactly, because of bad practice, it's going to be case by case. {{Today (dmy)}} is a much better choice when a dynamic date is needed. For that matter, it would be clearer to use {{date|{{Today}}|dmy}}, to achieve a particular formatting of the current date, rather than assuming leaving the first parameter blank would return the current date.Cander0000 (talk) 18:51, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

Petter Adolf Karsten

Hi Rich, some weeks ago you added the exact dates of his birth and death to the English Wikipedia. To you have a source for it? By the way at the time Karsten lived, Finnland was part of the Russian Empire, do you know if the dates are referring to the Julian or Gregorian Calendar?? --Hagen Graebner (talk) 15:59, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

No I don't think I did. Rich Farmbrough, 18:12, 3 January 2010 (UTC).
You are right, it was done by an IP - question has to be left open....Sorry, --Hagen Graebner (talk) 19:03, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

Celan, Heidegger, Master from Germany

I wrote you a message only to realize you weren't the appropriate individual. Terribly sorry about that! (talk) 20:25, 4 January 2010 (UTC) (talk) 20:09, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Multiply copies of a file

Hello Rich, thanks for your time. I searched for Mir-Hossein Mousavi's signature and actually found four same signatures in two formats: one in jpg and other three in svg format. It seems like the uploader has uploaded three of those in English Wikipedia and one in Commons. Since Wikipedia:IUP#Format clearly states that public domain images including signatures in svg formats are preferred, I believe the one in Commons should be kept and the other three should be deleted per Wikipedia:Criteria_for_speedy_deletion#Files#F8. The files mentioned above are:

JuventiniFan (talk) 12:40, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

OK I got rid of one under f1 speedy criteria, I'll look at the others in a sec. You can tag them with {{Db-f8}} of course. Rich Farmbrough, 15:56, 5 January 2010 (UTC).


Somebody vandalise Sporting Clube da Praia_ please block him his ip adress is !!!! thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 15:08, 5 January 2010 (UTC) or protect page from vandalisam please —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 15:23, 5 January 2010 (UTC)


Is there a template to turn all capitalised letter to uncapitalised? Something like {{Whatever|input=ABcdEF}} -> abcdef? Debresser (talk) 13:23, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

I made one once...
It still exists? Debresser (talk) 15:51, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
You can use {{lc:ABcdEF}} .. abcdef Rich Farmbrough, 17:08, 5 January 2010 (UTC).
Thank you. Debresser (talk) 21:35, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Cascade-protected items

I believe I've figured out how to have an editable lead. See WT:CASC. You are receiving this message due to the banner at the top of the talk page. If you don't want such messages, remove yourself from the banner. Thanks, Thinboy00 @234, i.e. 04:36, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

I'd like your input.

Hey rich Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/FrescoBot 2 SmackBot came up in that BRFA, and I was wondering if you could answer some of our questions.  — [Unsigned comment added by Tim1357 (talkcontribs).]

Rich Farmbrough, 03:53, 7 January 2010 (UTC).

What have I started, wish I had bot help for this task

I have noticed (particularly in the article Where the Wild Things Are) that some editors are formatting citations in slightly odd ways. They are using the author parameter and writing "Farmbrough, Rich" rather than "Rich Farmbrough" or writing | first = Rich | last = Farmbrough and using the available parameters. Maybe this is more complicated than it seems but perhaps you would consider checking the author field and if it contains a comma then split it into first and last parameters? Thanks for your consideration. -- Horkana (talk) 16:18, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

The problem is poeple may put "author = Smith, Jones" ... Rich Farmbrough, 18:08, 5 January 2010 (UTC).
You mean coauthors? I suppose that would be difficult to check, having them in separate fields though might be still be an improvement, even if it is still wrong in another way. I'll have to write my own bot someday, it would probably save time a lot of time in the long run. Thanks anyhow. -- Horkana (talk) 21:57, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
I'm not saying it can't or shouldn't be done. Simply trying to identify what the problems might be. Another might be Far East names, where the family name comes first. This might be a good reason to deprecate "first" and "last" - the main point of them is to allow Harvard refs to be generated automatically. Rich Farmbrough, 09:29, 7 January 2010 (UTC).

Year error

Rich can you use AWB to fix the year errors I made like this. The communes I've added population data to date....From now on they should be correct... Dr. Blofeld White cat 19:45, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

In hand. Rich Farmbrough, 18:54, 6 January 2010 (UTC).


Remember telling me that ArbCom is "horrendous"? Well, I am on it. See Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case#Chabad_movement_editors. Not that I think that I should be there, or even this case in general. Nor am I worried too much as to its outcome. Anyway. Debresser (talk) 00:10, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

How is SmackBot? Running? I haven't seen any fixes connected with references so far this year. Debresser (talk) 08:38, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
Or with |dateformat= and |access-date=, for that matter. Debresser (talk) 18:34, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
Need a new BRFA for that. Rich Farmbrough, 18:47, 6 January 2010 (UTC).
Anything I can do to help? BTW, if there are more parameters, then we should do all of them together. I personally feel this is enough. Debresser (talk) 19:44, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
Wait a sec. you mean a new whatever for the reffixes also? Debresser (talk) 19:54, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
No the refs are fine. I killed the last BRFA because we had essentially finished the process manually while it languished. Rich Farmbrough, 20:11, 6 January 2010 (UTC).
  • Where did |access-date= come from?
  • I saw a lot of times that the date was of format (month day year), not {month day, year). I don't know why. Can that be a mistake made when fixing?
  • I am finishing all non-main namespace pages soon.
  • Are you going to file a new BRFA?

Debresser (talk) 15:50, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Falling rain

Are you still up for removing falling rain links from wikipedia. Perhaps semi automated we can remove any bad referenced figures. Perhaps the way to do it would be to remove the external links first using AWB and then sort those which are referenced to falling rain afterwards. Its just we need to remove all of the links to that site before delisting.. Dr. Blofeld White cat 15:10, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

External links may be worth removing, then we can consider referncing the other information elsewhere. Rich Farmbrough, 17:50, 6 January 2010 (UTC).

The Wikipedia Signpost: 1 January 2010

Read this Signpost in full · Single-page · Unsubscribe · EdwardsBot (talk) 23:50, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Possible move

Would you mind looking at two comments I posted at the medicine project at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#Move_requested. Would you be willing to share your opinion/move that page? ---kilbad (talk) 04:44, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Bangladesh International School, English Section, Riyadh

Hi, can you please put the citations in the article Bangladesh International School, English Section, Riyadh properly. I ve provided some references but I dont know how to do the cite thing properly. Thanks in advance. Aceleo (talkcontribs) 13:10, 07 January 2010 (UTC)

Fact v. Citation Needed?

Hi, Rich - I see that you changed some Fact tags that I had added to Citation Needed tags in the Dolphin Encounters‎ article. Both of these display as "Citation Needed" in the article, so I wondered if the Citation Needed tag is the preferable choice? It's just that I can remember how to spell Fact but sometimes screw up with citation. :) Thanks. Bob98133 (talk) 15:48, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

SmackBot adding 'date=' to Article issues tag

This change (particularly, changing 'article=yes' to to 'article=January 2010' and adding a free-floating date parameter) seems to be contrary to the specifications for the {{Article issues}} template. Cnilep (talk) 23:05, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

SmackBot goes for simplicity. The template has a date parameter which supports the "expert" parameter. SB sets this regardless. Possibly this would have been removed by AWB general fixes where unneeded, but those are disabled as there are objections (to the principles, not to the actual edits). The section and article parameters again can take any value. I have updated the documentation to reflect this. Rich Farmbrough, 23:44, 8 January 2010 (UTC).

Unreferenced BLPs

Information.svg Hello Rich Farmbrough! Thank you for your contributions. I am a bot alerting you that 9 of the articles that you created are tagged as Unreferenced Biographies of Living Persons. The biographies of living persons policy requires that all personal or potentially controversial information be sourced. In addition, to ensure verifiability, all biographies should be based on reliable sources. if you were to bring these articles up to standards, it would greatly help us with the current 2,075 article backlog. Once the articles are adequately referenced, please remove the {{unreferencedBLP}} tag. Here is the list:

  1. Henry Fambrough - Find sources: "Henry Fambrough" – news · newspapers · books · scholar · JSTOR · free images
  2. Charles Fambrough - Find sources: "Charles Fambrough" – news · newspapers · books · scholar · JSTOR · free images
  3. Christopher Curwen - Find sources: "Christopher Curwen" – news · newspapers · books · scholar · JSTOR · free images
  4. Colin McColl - Find sources: "Colin McColl" – news · newspapers · books · scholar · JSTOR · free images
  5. Martin Furnival Jones - Find sources: "Martin Furnival Jones" – news · newspapers · books · scholar · JSTOR · free images
  6. Patrick Walker - Find sources: "Patrick Walker" – news · newspapers · books · scholar · JSTOR · free images
  7. Kemal Monteno - Find sources: "Kemal Monteno" – news · newspapers · books · scholar · JSTOR · free images
  8. Greg Cook (comics) - Find sources: "Greg Cook (comics)" – news · newspapers · books · scholar · JSTOR · free images
  9. May (singer) - Find sources: "May (singer)" – news · newspapers · books · scholar · JSTOR · free images

Thanks!--DASHBot (talk) 23:43, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Service awards proposal

Master Editor Hello, Rich Farmbrough/Talk Archive Mega2! I noticed you display a service award, and would like to invite you to join the discussion over a proposed revamping of the awards.

If you have any opinions on the proposal, please participate in the discussion. Thanks! — the Man in Question (in question) 01:10, 9 January 2010 (UTC)


Project Logo Hello, Rich Farmbrough/Talk Archive Mega2 and thank you for your contributions on articles related to the Saw film series. I'd like to invite you to become a part of Wikipedia: WikiProject Saw, a WikiProject aiming to improve coverage of Saw and related articles on Wikipedia.

If you would like to help out and participate, please visit the project page for more information. Thanks! GroundZ3R0 002 02:19, 9 January 2010 (UTC)


Parco di Castello 5.JPG

Rich, this is in appreciation for your magnificent work on cleaning up the date mess with scripts/bots. It's a fine achievement. Thank you. Tony (talk) 11:30, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

  • Certainly beginning to see the resemblance of this to English Wikipedia. Ohconfucius ¡digame! 13:47, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

SmackBot dating issues

I noticed a couple issues in today's bot edits. — Carl (CBM · talk) 14:06, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

  • This edit [3] changed the date parameter of a {{cite journal}} template.
  • This edit [4] [5] added a date to a stub template.
  • This edit [6] left behind '}}}'.
  • I do not know why this edit [7] changed November 2009 to January 2010.
  • This edit [8] put two date= parameters on the same tag.
  • This edit [9] made the infobox inconsistent with itself, changing Feb. but not Oct.
  • This edit [10] removed the day from the date in a {{cite news}} call.
I am going to stop the bot on its talk page, but not block it. The errors in cite templates are a serious problem. — Carl (CBM · talk) 15:31, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Sorry about that; the diff is [11]. I didn't think it was serious enough to stop the bot, but it made me scratch my head. — Carl (CBM · talk) 18:38, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for your contribution !!!

Thanks for helping me out with my article Bangladesh International School, English Section, Riyadh. Aceleo (talkcontribs) 21:21, 09 January 2010 (UTC)


This relatively old edit caused a citation error, is that fixed? Sole Soul (talk) 22:45, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Re Wikipedia:WikiProject_Medicine/Dermatology_task_force/Required_pages

I have slowly crawling the above list and creating redirects. Often times, there are articles already present but redlinks due to difference in British verses American English. As a result, in addition to creating redirects when possible, I have added a footnote discussing these differences in spelling (see List_of_cutaneous_conditions#cite_note-ex03-16). I am estimating that within the next month we can bluelink the entire list. ---kilbad (talk) 22:11, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Ok, I am done with the list. I am going to archive it if you are ok with that? ---kilbad (talk) 01:26, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

Category:Film articles using deprecated parameters

Could SmackBot run a it more in there? I think it was you that gave me a code that I can remove deprecated parameters (in fact delete lines having specific strings using Regex) but it was somewhere lost for ever. Could you write me something similar? -- Magioladitis (talk) 01:24, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

{{use dmy dates}}

There is a new discussion going on at Template talk:Dmy‎, and I though you might have some views on the subject. Ohconfucius ¡digame! 02:40, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

Information.svg You should wait for others to write an article about subjects in which you are personally involved, as you did at Alexander Schukoff. This applies to articles about you, your achievements, your band, your business, your publications, your website, your relatives, and any other possible conflict of interest.

Creating an article about yourself is strongly discouraged. If you create such an article, it might be listed on articles for deletion. Deletion is not certain, but many feel strongly that you should not start articles about yourself. This is because independent creation encourages independent validation of both significance and verifiability. All edits to articles must conform to Wikipedia:No original research, Wikipedia:Neutral point of view, and Wikipedia:Verifiability.

If you are not "notable" under Wikipedia guidelines, creating an article about yourself may violate the policy that Wikipedia is not a personal webspace provider and would thus qualify for speedy deletion. If your achievements, etc., are verifiable and genuinely notable, and thus suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia, someone else will probably create an article about you sooner or later. (See Wikipedia:Wikipedians with articles.) Thank you. --bender235 (talk) 13:27, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Journal of the Norwegian Medical Association

Ambox warning pn.svg

An editor has nominated Journal of the Norwegian Medical Association, an article which you have created or worked on, for deletion. We appreciate your contributions, but the nominator doesn't believe that the article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion and has explained why in his/her nomination (see also "What Wikipedia is not").

Your opinions on whether the article meets inclusion criteria and what should be done with the article are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Journal of the Norwegian Medical Association and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~).

You may also edit the article during the discussion to address the nominator's concerns but should not remove the articles for deletion template from the top of the article; such removal will not end the deletion debate. Thank you. - Eastmain (talk) 02:54, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

Your valued feedback is needed

Nuvola apps edu languages.svg
Hello, Rich Farmbrough. You have new messages at FleetCommand's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.
Archive Rich Farmbrough, 23:50, 11 January 2010 (UTC).

Smackbot unlinking words in headings

The bot did this with the "New Yorkistan" heading here. I don't know if this is a good idea. I know links in headings are supposed to be avoided but it seems better to have one than to have no link in the article at all.Prezbo (talk) 08:56, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

Per WP:MOSHEAD "Section names should not normally contain links, especially ones that link only part of the heading; they will cause accessibility problems.". You can add something like "Main article" or "See also" under the header. It's much better than having a link in the header. -- Magioladitis (talk) 09:33, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
Like I said above, I know there shouldn't be links in the header, but when when there's no other link in the article--which was the case with the article I linked to--it seems better than nothing.Prezbo (talk) 09:37, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
This feature was recently added in AWB. Maybe you could start a discussion in Wikipedia talk:AutoWikiBrowser. I think the feature is useful for manual edits but maybe you have a point for bot edits where non of main nor seealso is added. Let's hear what the other think as well. -- Magioladitis (talk) 10:19, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
Sorry, would you mind explaining the connection between this bot and AWB? I don't have a problem with people doing this manually.Prezbo (talk) 10:32, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
SmackBot uses WP:AWB. -- Magioladitis (talk) 13:44, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
  1. To some extent this is moot as I have been forced to turn of GFs.
  2. An advantage to having an automated method of doing this sort of stuff is that humans tend to "let it slide". Just food for thought.
Rich Farmbrough, 19:42, 11 January 2010 (UTC).

Smackbot: a suggestion


Just a suggestion. Smackbot recently edited Nilpotent operator to update a "Category:Articles lacking sources (Erik9bot)" tag to an "Unreferenced" tag. However, the date it gave was December 2009 (when it edited the page), not July 2009 (when the old category tag was put in). Perhaps it would be helpful if the code was updated so that it inserts a date that reflects the original tagging, not the replacement tagging. I changed it manually in this case. :-)

Tcnuk (talk) 11:19, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, I backdated many that I changed manually, but there was too much drama over the dating of the bulk to do anything intelligent with them, so they went in the December category. They have all been done now. Rich Farmbrough, 19:39, 11 January 2010 (UTC).

G.W. Peck

You recently tagged the G. W. Peck article as a "biography". But G. W. Peck is a "fictional mathematician". See Talk:G. W. Peck Jwesley78 14:23, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks: Rich Farmbrough, 19:36, 11 January 2010 (UTC).

SmackBot regex went wrong

This went wrong. Unfortunatly I noticed this after I transfered a bunch of images to Commons. Could you please apply the fix to the images in commons:Category:Files_moved_from_en.wikipedia_to_Commons_requiring_review_as_of_11_January_2010 too? multichill (talk) 22:43, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

MItr is an article not a advertisement

I have fulfilled whatever said by wikipedia people, first they were emphasizing on its reliable source, to fulfill their demand some good reliable sources has been included but still they are considering for deletion
Its a information that this platform is providing, why it is different from others and Its like a new experience for software engineers they can get something out of it. Its not a advertisement. Please look it into it once more. it has gone through many phases its size has been reduces from its normal to half. It is having capability that it is supporting other plaforms which were found rare in earlier platforms.Company's name has been included once (wherever necessary). so i don't think its a advertisement. Thankyou--Nandssiib (talk) 07:11, 12 January 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nandssiib (talkcontribs) 07:09, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

The Wikipedia Signpost: 11 January 2010

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More date issues

Diffs from today's run. — Carl (CBM · talk) 02:17, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

  • Here, the bot changes a date from July 2009 to January 2010 [12]. The date parameter is included twice there; that's because SmackBot added a duplicate back in July [13].
  • Similar issue at Calgary [14]
  • Removed a comma from a date in a reference, but left a comma in a different part of the same reference (footnote #194) [15].

Smackbot's edit summaries


Smackbot's edit summaries end in "build 391:,". It seems a little peculiar. Is that intended behaviour? - Richard Cavell (talk) 05:59, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Ask USer:CBM. Rich Farmbrough, 06:06, 13 January 2010 (UTC).

Your user talk page title

Another thing: The title of this page is "Use Rich Farmbrough" on my machine (Firefox 3.5.7 on OS X). This is because of a DISPLAYTITLE template in the source. Is that what you intended? - Richard Cavell (talk) 06:02, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

yes. Rich Farmbrough, 06:36, 13 January 2010 (UTC).


I assume that you had something to do with the Article Issues posted on the Cube News 1 page. I replied in the talk quite a while ago, but nothing has happened. Hence, I am writing to whoever might be able to do something. dmelliott 14:44, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Orphan tagger in AWB

As of rev 6013 AWB counts the number of incoming links to the article and its redirects excluding the number of redirects i.e. tagging is 99% safe. Only problem the number of incoming dab links but this was the big issue. -- Magioladitis (talk) 23:32, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Excellent work, sadly SmackBot is not allowed to use the tagger. Rich Farmbrough, 06:07, 13 January 2010 (UTC).

Here you are: -- Magioladitis (talk) 16:10, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

AfD nomination of 1hourflex

Ambox warning pn.svg

An article that you have been involved in editing, 1hourflex, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/1hourflex. Thank you.
Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. Dbratland (talk) 00:04, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Comment at Wikipedia:Templates_for_deletion/Log/2009_August_17#Template:Birth_event_age

Sorry for digging up an old discussion but what do you mean This provides the flexibility that {{BirthDeathAge}} was supposed to, and it works. How is this template broken or in flexible? Gnevin (talk) 00:50, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Service award update

Editor - lapis philosophorum star.jpg
Hello, Rich Farmbrough! The requirements for the service awards have been updated, and you may no longer be eligible for the award you currently display. Don't worry! Since you have already earned your award, you are free to keep displaying it. However, you may also wish to update to the current system.

Sorry for any inconvenience. — the Man in Question (in question) 10:16, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

homosexual v. gay

Just wanted to call to your attention the preferred use of "gay and lesbian" over "homosexual". This is in regard to your changes to the Madeline Davis entry. See: and Thanks--Aichikawa (talk) 19:21, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

I have no idea which part of the MoS you are talking about, or which change toi the article. Please add talk page comments at the end of talk pages, and use diffs. Rich Farmbrough, 08:25, 15 January 2010 (UTC).

FYI re auto=yes

FYI "auto=yes" is not a notation that a banner was added automatically, [16] it should only be used when automatically assessing as "stub" because the article page had a stub template. This came up here. Cheers, –xenotalk 13:31, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, noted.Rich Farmbrough, 08:25, 15 January 2010 (UTC).


Hi. I was looking at File:Pepper's.jpg and I noticed that you are currently using it in your user-space at User:Rich Farmbrough/temp62. Unfortunately as the file is a non-free image it shouldn't really be used in user-space. There also appear to be a number of other non-free files used on the page. Would you mind removing them from your sandbox, or at least commenting them out until you are finished? Regards. Road Wizard (talk) 01:42, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

I deleted the page, however I don't think that copies of main-space pages should be an issue. The reasons are obvious. Rich Farmbrough, 19:31, 16 January 2010 (UTC).
Thanks for removing the problem, however I don't think there are any obvious reasons. The image was loaded under a fair-use claim and there was no fair use rationale for use in your user-space. Therefore it was in breach of Wikipedia policy and guidelines and possibly in breach of US copyright law.
If it was just a temporary page used for a few hours before reinsertion into the main article then it would probably not be a problem; any breach would be corrected long before it became a legal problem. However if I recall the history of the deleted page correctly it had been a month since the last edit, suggesting a more permanent breach.
If you think an exemption should be made for sandbox copies of articles you may wish to suggest an amendment to the existing policies and guidelines. Regards. Road Wizard (talk) 19:52, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
OK, mirrors of WP or mirrors WP pages, or WP history are considered legal - many versions of the same actual page. The only difference is that the page is labelled "USer:" that is not going to be a legal issue. As to the policy, legality is the prime reason for it, bright-line demarcation maybe the reason for simply saying "user space" - I do think an exception should be made but I don't want to suggest an amendment. Rich Farmbrough, 03:13, 17 January 2010 (UTC).

Thanks anyway

Gnevin (talk) 19:07, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

California County Route S1

It appears you put a </references> tag on the page County Route S1 (California). This action has been reverted, for this template does not exist. Pzoxicuvybtnrm 03:33, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Kuru, Nigeria

Nigerian towns need a huge cleanup..... Removing falling rain rmeoving spam etc. Nigeria "is like the Pakistan of Africa on wikipedia". Dr. Blofeld White cat 20:30, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Oh silent one, can you add svg maps like this to the amphoe of Chiang Mai Province. You just need to switch png with svg.... Dr. Blofeld White cat 16:44, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

New proposal

Rich Hi :) If you find time, do comment on the new proposal I've suggested here. Thanks ▒ Wirεłεşş ▒ Fidεłitұ ▒ Ćłâşş ▒ Θnε ▒ ―Œ ♣Łεâvε Ξ мεşşâgε♣ 04:32, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

The Wikipedia Signpost: 18 January 2010

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Dates in non-article space

I posted at Bot Requests, but the request/discussion seemed to be bogged down with some esoteric and rather surreal discussion. Anyway, can I enlist your help with the work to be done in delinking these?

As an aside, I notice that some portal space is posted by bots, which automatically post linked dates. I tried removing the links on a couple of occasions, but the bot restored them in the next edit as if it was programmed to link dates. Ohconfucius ¡digame! 17:41, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Regarding dermatology-related content

My main focus continues to be the Bolognia push; however, if you can generate any other lists of required derm stubs/redirects, I would be willing to work on them as well? ---kilbad (talk) 18:44, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Infobox Hungarian settlement


I noticed you did some work on Template:Infobox Hungarian settlement. I did some work on it and the documentation page, related with references. I checked that it is working well. I think I found an elegant solution.

In addition I found a problem with this template, see Template_talk:Infobox_Hungarian_settlement#Coat of arms. Perhaps you can easily solve it. Debresser (talk) 00:06, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

An edit by Plastikspork made it a little better, but I think the best idea would be to somehow not have the link to the files at all, if they don't exist. Debresser (talk) 03:19, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
Ha! I was thinking the same thing. See my subsequent edit. Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 03:21, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
Nice fix. Thanks. Debresser (talk) 14:45, 20 January 2010 (UTC)


I have checked with the Scout Association, PRC on the Woodbadge issue. Seems like it is confirmed that the Woodbadge Training Scheme indeed was released by the WOSM APR approved by Abdullah Rasheed the WOSM APR Rigional Director. There was communication email between the association & the Regional office. Feel free to advice if you need anything. Thanks.

Regards, Tsa-prc

Archive Rich Farmbrough, 21:38, 20 January 2010 (UTC).

Nomination for deletion of Template:Museum key

Nuvola apps important.svgTemplate:Museum key has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Thank you. Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 21:16, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

SmackBot you did a great thing!

I am glad that the article has been fixed and all that could be taken with offense were removed. I had attempted to edit the article and became upset and offended by some of it's previous errors and phrasing of which I personally found unnecessary and offensive to me. Thus I left the article as it was, due to personal offense taken. Thanks so much for that much needed help. --Ladybrainbypass (talk) 14:40, 21 January 2010 (UTC)--Ladybrainbypass (talk) 14:42, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Fix and substitution detection

I noticed you didn't answer detection of incorrect substitution to maintenance templates that use {{Fix}} like {{Dead link}}, {{Dubious}}, or {{Citation broken}}. Is that on purpose?

What happened with Category:Articles with invalid date parameter in template? Did the bureaucracy get to you? I also didn't do any wikignoming these past week-and-a-half because of that ArbCom case I'm involved with. It is really unsetteling to be falsely accused, not to mention unappreciated. Debresser (talk) 14:00, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

BTW, since all maintenance templates use either {{DMCA}} or {{Fix}}, I wondered if it wouldn't be easier to build the detection into just these two templates? Or is that impossible? Debresser (talk) 14:01, 19 January 2010 (UTC)


It is found in the article [17] under Representation:

"Levis Fine Art represents a number of Elaine de Kooning's heirs and has an comprehensive collection of her lifetime works."

In my opinion 'Representation' belongs to a gallery guide but not to Wikipedia. What do you think? (Salmon1 (talk) 19:47, 21 January 2010 (UTC))

Lovers Electric

Hi Rich, sorry to trouble you. There's a band, Lovers Electric, whose photo I'm uploading now to Commons. I looked at the article history to see whose toes I'll be stepping on this time if I decide (as usual) to be bold, and fix any wording, wikification lapses or missing things, and saw that whomever the username is they call themselves Lovers Electric, which makes me assume it's either the band or their publicist. I very much remember the headaches with Josh Klinghoffer's publicity people last time he was to embark on tour with the Red Hot Chili Peppers. I don't feel qualified to put the template that someone closely related to the band may be making edits for this page. Would you take a look? Also, I had a very nice email from a D.J. called "Redbeard" who has a global radio interview program called In the Studio with Redbeard. For some reason, after some chatting back and forth, he took a look at their page. I'm not sure what format it should take, and he wanted to update some now erroneous facts, but found he was blocked from "all but text at the bottom of the page". The next email revealed the entire recording studio's ISP was banned. I advised him to register, and to let people know he was the subject of the article, and promised I'd tell an Admin. here so they know he's just trying to keep it up to date and nothing promotional or whatnot. (He did a kickass interview with Pete Townshend about The Who's Tommy anniversary.. but that's beside the point.) Will it be OK for Redbeard to edit just to keep up to date if I keep an eye out for Peacock stuff? Will you handle the questionable Lovers Electric thing? Thanks.--Leahtwosaints (talk) 23:19, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Response to a response

Did you not edit Madeline Davis, changing some words from homosexual to gay? That's what my comment to you (now erased) was about.--Aichikawa (talk) 17:54, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

No I don't think so. Rich Farmbrough, 10:17, 24 January 2010 (UTC).

Moving pages

When you move page which have talk archives (as you did here), you should check for bot templates on the talk page and ensure they still work.--Oneiros (talk) 19:40, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Uh... well I see what happened. And I will look out for this. But really the syntax needs to be re-locatable, for there is no guarantee that a page with an archive template has any archives, for example. Rich Farmbrough, 10:14, 24 January 2010 (UTC).


Rich, I've emailed you. Tony (talk) 05:11, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Pong. Answering. Rich Farmbrough, 16:27, 24 January 2010 (UTC).

User:Blocking administrator

Please register the account. :P (It's showing up at Ownerless pages in the user space.) --MZMcBride (talk) 17:43, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Sadly it won't let me as it has the word "admin" in it. Rich Farmbrough, 10:12, 24 January 2010 (UTC).
If you went to Special:UserLogin while logged in to your admin account, you'd have had some additional rights. For example, admins automatically override titleblacklist entries, and have the option to override spoofing checks. I had checked MediaWiki:Titleblacklist and found no entry, but I missed to check the global one, meta:Title blacklist, so I just created it myself. Anyway, it's created. Amalthea 14:05, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
OK thanks. Rich Farmbrough, 16:20, 24 January 2010 (UTC).

Fix and substitution detection

I noticed you didn't answer detection of incorrect substitution to maintenance templates that use {{Fix}} like {{Dead link}}, {{Dubious}}, or {{Citation broken}}. Is that on purpose?

I haven't been on much so I haven;t really thought about the first point. but it should be easy enough to treat them the same as the Ambox tempaltes

BTW, since all maintenance templates use either {{DMCA}} or {{Fix}}, I wondered if it wouldn't be easier to build the detection into just these two templates? Or is that impossible?

The acttual tempaltes need to have the code in, so that it gets substed. There may be a slight eleganceavailabe.

What happened with Category:Articles with invalid date parameter in template? Did the bureaucracy get to you?

Not as such. I took a big first run,once the problems were resolved and those are the first dealt with. Then the run staled a few times.

I also didn't do any wikignoming these past week-and-a-half because of that ArbCom case I'm involved with. It is really unsettling to be falsely accused, not to mention unappreciated. Debresser (talk)

Arbcom is a problem as well as a solution. Rich Farmbrough, 20:06, 24 January 2010 (UTC).

Surrey Marshe

Regarding this edit, what difference does it make which order the references are in? I'm just curious if there's some fine point of the guidelines that I've missed. Thanks, Dismas|(talk) 06:28, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

It's just numerical order. Rich Farmbrough, 06:34, 25 January 2010 (UTC).


Ne shume komente e diskutime te personave qe kane pasur pozicione te larta ne hierarkine shteterore,kan folur e flasin ende se Z.Sali Berisha kane qene e eshte nje agjent potencial i U.D.B se serbe. E vertete...?????? S'me besohet kurre. As qe mund te imagjinohet...!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 19:56, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

in re 2007 South Asian floods: sorry, somehow must've missed something there. --G-41614 (talk) 10:23, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Sara Roy

Hello. I'm not sure why, but SmackBot keeps mucking up the formatting of Sara Roy. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 20:48, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

The Wikipedia Signpost: 25 January 2010

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Considering a few new categories

I am considering adding a few more dermatology-related categories. I have posted a thread at: Talk:List_of_cutaneous_conditions#Additional_sections_.7C_categories. Could I get your feedback regarding this issue? ---kilbad (talk) 01:53, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

New template

A template that we didn't have yet is Template:Examples. Debresser (talk) 21:30, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

AfD nomination of List of basic geography topics

Ambox warning pn.svg

An editor has nominated one or more articles which you have created or worked on, for deletion. The nominated article is List of basic geography topics. We appreciate your contributions, but the nominator doesn't believe that the article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion and has explained why in his/her nomination (see also Wikipedia:Notability and "What Wikipedia is not").

Your opinions on whether the article meets inclusion criteria and what should be done with the article are welcome; please participate in the discussion(s) by adding your comments to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of basic geography topics. Please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~).

You may also edit the article during the discussion to improve it but should not remove the articles for deletion template from the top of the article; such removal will not end the deletion debate.

Please note: This is an automatic notification by a bot. I have nothing to do with this article or the deletion nomination, and can't do anything about it. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 01:05, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

what are you doing whith your user name on revision history kilcummin when you are making no comments. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 14:48, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Deleting DAB pages?

Rich, under what circumstances, and by what method, are DAB pages deleted? The question is not academic, or a matter of curiosity, rather, I believe the Blue Valentine (disambiguation) page is in need of deletion. One link, as you can see is red, which may or may not have an article in the near future. Either way, a dablink at the top of each article would be sufficient. A DAB page with two links is unnecessary. I was simply planning on reverting the page move, but decided against it. I would like your advice here. Thanks. ---RepublicanJacobiteThe'FortyFive' 16:03, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

The user converted the article with its history into a dab - that's not on no matter what. And you are right, WP:2DAB means no disambig page is necessary. Once there is an article on the film, add a hat to Blue Valentine. –xenotalk 16:07, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
Yes, keeping history stright is important. Obviously as 2DAB says the dab page these dabs are harmless, and like redirects should not be deleted if they just aren't useful - but that's not an issue hrere. Rich Farmbrough, 05:24, 29 January 2010 (UTC).

Problem with edit

I reported what I thought was an AWB bug on the appropriate page, and was told it was due to an edit of yours rather than AWB:

Wikipedia talk:AutoWikiBrowser/Bugs#AWB appears_to_have_replaced_.22.7B.7Bdate.7C.7Cdmy.7D.7D.22 with the current (fixed) date

Best wishes, Pol098 (talk) 16:42, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Yes, thanks, that is I hope complete, and I am aware now that longevity pages need avoiding. Rich Farmbrough, 19:37, 28 January 2010 (UTC).

Help Nominate me?

Hey can you help promote me to an Beaurucat? (OMGstrings (talk) 02:09, 29 January 2010 (UTC))

Hi Rich

Hi Rich. The last time I proposed a policy change, your comments were valuable. Thanks for that. If you find time, do drop in again at the village pump here to give your views on a new category of established users I've proposed. Thanks ▒ Wirεłεşş ▒ Fidεłitұ ▒ Ćłâşş ▒ Θnε ▒ ―Œ ♣Łεâvε Ξ мεşşâgε♣ 13:37, 29 January 2010 (UTC)


What do you think about the template, and this proposal? Ohconfucius ¡digame! 05:28, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Thank you

Richard, Thank you for helping with the Adriano Espaillat article. (talk) 06:12, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

re AWB Unicode bug

Re your AWB Unicode bug it seems like a rare error, we can convert to spaces if found, or do nothing. Which do you think? Thanks Rjwilmsi 14:36, 30 January 2010 (UTC)


Nuvola apps edu languages.svg
Hello, Rich Farmbrough. You have new messages at SimonTrew's talk page.
Message added 17:47, 30 January 2010 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

I left a reply to you at my talk page, to try to keep things in one place. I will copy to BON if you want, but presumably you came here specifically to talk it with me not at BON. All I say here is that I have no problem with SB or you, just a very specific problem. I am sorry it was stopped.

I have been away from WP for a while IRL so I am sorry if my delay in replying seems like ignorance. I will do everything I can to help you get genfixes sorted out, which I have no prioblem with SB doing. I know you and SB do great work here, and it is kinda minor this, a rather side issue, I didn't want and didn't ask for it to stop genfixes. I never stopped this bot at all during this debate, or asked for it to be. I will do everything I can to say so to admin or whatever who stopped it for that, I haven't read up why, but this specifically is NOT genfixes and it should have genfixes I think, which everyone knows and loves so well. So I defintely support you to get genfixes back. Si Trew (talk) 17:47, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

SmackBot & unnamed parameters

When SmackBot is fixing dates on templates, it would be nice if it could check if the unnamed parameter is a valid date, and if so use it instead of adding a new one: [18] [19] [20]. Thanks! --Pascal666 08:28, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Can you help sanity to prevail?

Hello Rich. We interacted last year when I sought your help to remove a file that was redundant. The relevant segment is still on my talkpage. That particular problem was my own making, and you kindly assisted in correction of it.

The current problem is not originally my own making, but in the process of trying to correct the matter and have some semblance of sanity prevail again, I have contributed to it. The way I see it, the problems are readily fixable. It's just that I don't have the administrative ability to take a couple of the steps.

The problem is this: The article, Captain R.T. Claridge, which I created on 29 October 2009, and which has continued uncontroversially to date, was erroneously renamed by another editor. In the process of that renaming, a redirect page was created.

I took care of the erroneous article renaming, or so I thought. However, what I didn't realise, was that in the original (erroneous) renaming, a space was inserted between the R and the T of Captain R.T. Claridge. This meant, of course, that all of the links originally created to the Captain R.T. Claridge article 'needed' a redirect page, because links are format-sensitive, including for the presence of spaces between letters.

At first I thought little of this, thinking perhaps the redirect did serve a real function, as opposed to an illusory function created by its own existence. But I was wrong. A few very simple experiments with the Wikipedia search function, for say, C. D. Baker, or Captain E.G. Beaumont. The search brings up the same article (or in the case of Baker, the same disambiguation page), regardless of whether or not you use a space between the initials, for both names. So you take the space away from C. D., and the search works. Add a space to E.G., and it works.

What this means is that there is no need for a redirect page merely on the basis of a space between the initials. The initial redirect page took the links with no spaces to the article with the spaces. From the initial redirect page, a 'check of what links here' naturally listed all of the articles and archives that previously linked for the Captain R.T. Claridge article. This seemed to give the impression that the redirect page needed to exist to solve a real problem, rather than an illusory one.

When I realised all this, after much stuffing around I might add (because I refuse to let an idiotic situation prevail), I realised the only solution that makes sense.

  1. The Captain R. T. Claridge article needs to be renamed to remove the space between the R and T. That is, Captain R.T. Claridge. This will automatically make the existing links that previously worked, work again. Very simple. I'd go so far as to say extremely simple, conceptually.
  2. The redirect page needs to be deleted, as it serves no real function, and appears to be hindering any attempt to implement the above solution.

I can't imagine many things more conceptually simple than the above solution. Since I don't have deletion authority, I initially tried to simply rename the Captain R. T. Claridge article to Captain R.T. Claridge (without spaces). But a red error message said Captain R.T. Claridge already existed. On the off-chance this was a byproduct of the name with spaces causing the problem, I renamed to R. T. Claridge, then tried going from there to Captain R.T. Claridge (without spaces). I got the same error message, saying the article exists. However, it allowed me to move the article to Captain R. T. Claridge (with spaces). This tells me that the article itself is not the problem. It must be the existence of something else named Captain R.T. Claridge (with no spaces). As far as I can tell, this brings me back to the redirect page. So I tried a couple of moves to see if renaming there made a difference. All I did was create a couple more redirect pages, as far as I can tell. I have now flagged all of the redirect pages for speedy deletion.

I really am only seeking one outcome, and one outcome alone. To get the Captain R. T. Claridge article back to its original name (Captain R.T. Claridge, without spaces) so the links which worked up until yesterday, all work again. I can't think of many things more conceptually simple. But I can't believe the Alice-in-Wonderland surreality that has transpired. But that doesn't mean I, or anyone else, has to settle for it. I seek your assistance if possible, as you seem to have a good track record of recognising simple, no-nonsense solutions, and implementing them, which is really all that is needed. Wotnow (talk) 07:59, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Update: The issue has been resolved courtesy of ϢereSpielChequers, including some helpful feedback from WereSpielChequers and  Glenfarclas ', and I am satisfied that all is well. Regards Wotnow (talk) 06:28, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
Excellent, I would, of course, have been glad to help. Rich Farmbrough, 10:49, 31 January 2010 (UTC).
Cheers. one of the problems I have is that I've been around long enough, and had enough experiences of dealing with a range of human behaviour, both at the individual, social-systemic level, to spot oddities long before I know what to make of them. Specifically, I have a very good antenna for spotting potential trouble-makers, or at least behaviour that inexorably leads to trouble. But obviously I'm not always going to be right. This can create conundrums. On the one hand, one risks over-reacting to an innocuous phenomenon. On the other hand, one knows from sheer experience and research, the end result of some patterns of behaviour. So one has to weigh up the risk of being right against the risk of over-reacting. This of course is the ever-present false positive vs false negative phenomenon, with the relative risk in either direction depending entirely on what the phenomenon is. In relation to the issue above, I was intrigued to find an earlier history of similar concerns by others. And from the comments ("again?") that itself was not the first time. Regards Wotnow (talk) 00:15, 2 February 2010 (UTC)


Based on that picture, are they saying that that store is still there and open to this day? Bob.-- (talk) 17:20, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

ping and pong

Richard, my attention has been drawn to your response that you've replied to my email. But I've not received it. Can you check the address? Tony (talk) 22:14, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

pui and puf

Hi Rich, Can recurring task 4 be modified to include {{pui}} and {{Puf}} ? Here are 2 examples that should have had dates placed by the "tagger" [21] [22]. Thanks. --After Midnight 0001 16:58, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

The Wikipedia Signpost: 1 February 2010

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Hey Dude, Have you had a chance to consider my emailed request for advice? Ohconfucius ¡digame! 15:06, 3 February 2010 (UTC)


Hi. I need your assistance. Can you rename all of those sub cats (Except Bolivar) in Category:Provinces of Ecuador which have an unneccessary .,Ecuador on the end to the simple naming. So instead of Category:Manabí Province, Ecuador it would become simply Category:Manabí Province. I and Ser Amantio have tackled a few already but all of the empty categories afterwards which have ,Ecuador on the end need deleting like Category:Azuay Province, Ecuador etc as that has alreayd been done. Once thats done, can you go through the province articles e.g Azuay Province and correct the canton links in the articles from (canton) to Canton. Admittedly I am uncertain as to whether or not they should be capitalized. In fact I think they should probably be ... (canton). If you agree, then leave those links and move all the articles to (canton) instead but be sure to correct the existing links and names in the articles and also the navigation template.

What naming looks right to you Nabón Canton or Nabón (canton). Peronsally I am thinking it would be best to move them to the latter one. Any thoughts?

Also the current naming for the Cantons of Costa Rica is capitalised and for Venezuelan municpalities is .... Municipality too. I think the naming would be better (municipality) for Venezuela too like the Mexican ones... I think Province and District is capitals looks right but not for canton and municipality, any thoughts on this too? ‡ Himalayan ‡ ΨMonastery 19:45, 2 February 2010 (UTC) ‡ Himalayan ‡ ΨMonastery 19:10, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Is everything OK? ‡ Himalayan ‡ ΨMonastery 11:50, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Yes I agree (canton)... Rich Farmbrough, 18:01, 3 February 2010 (UTC).

Is it possible you could sort it out when you have time then? Its just its a lingering problem now as only some of them are done and we have some empty categories and inconsistency lying about.. ‡ Himalayan ‡ ΨMonastery 10:55, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

SmackBot & date stamps

Is SmackBot maintaining all these cases on regular basis? I need this information for handling a FR on AWB. Thanks, Magioladitis (talk) 14:59, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

OK all except {{Histinfo}} {{Blpdispute}} and {{Hoax}}. Rich Farmbrough, 18:09, 3 February 2010 (UTC).

Another potential use for SmackBot

Most people who create articles via the Article Wizard leave the link intact. Smackbot should remove those, and remove the external links section altogether if no other external links were inserted either by the creator or or a subsequent editor. -- Blanchardb -MeMyEarsMyMouth- timed 18:18, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Nicky Hilton

Hi, you might want to look at this page, appears to have some errors at the bottom of the page after you added the sources. Larry Dunn (talk) 19:18, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Nomination for merging of Template:Unreferenced stub

Nuvola apps important.svgTemplate:Unreferenced stub has been nominated for merging with Template:Unreferenced. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Thank you. Fram (talk) 10:15, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

SmackBot replacing char refs w/ matrices, etc.

I'm puzzled at SmackBot's replacing of spaceless & # 0145 ; through & # 0148 ; with numbered boxes. Neither form is popular for reading and I think the former form is usually correctly interpreted by browsers. It looks like the edit page lets us click to insert curved quotation marks, but that's usually too cumbersome; I compose offline and paste in and don't want to have to click for each character.

I'm planning to restore the former form in the article that SmackBot edited and which I originally wrote. I don't know if I want to block bots since I may create an article but I don't own it, given WP's premise.

Also, I tend to use singular section titles like Reference and External link if there's only one reference or external link under the section title.

Thanks. Nick Levinson (talk) 04:26, 2 February 2010 (UTC) (Then I corrected 1 stupid error of my very own (and added this). Nick Levinson (talk) 04:45, 2 February 2010 (UTC))

The numbered boxes are simply your browser's way of representing those characters. Just because they are changed from &#0145; to the actual character, it doesn't mean you need to change how you write, either on or offline, it is simply perfective maintenance. However if your browser can't display ‘ ’ “ ” then it may be better not to use them.
As far as plurals in headings go that is established MoS, the plural is used just the same as we would have "contents" in a book even if there was only one chapter.
Regards, Rich Farmbrough, 11:39, 5 February 2010 (UTC).
Thanks. My browser does display the curved quotation marks from elsewhere in WP but also displays the numbered boxes, so I'm technologically puzzled, but I found that the WP MoS prefers straight anyway, so I'm generally typing straight, which should solve that. As to the pluralization, I can accept that; I don't know of a single-chapter book, and I assume the chapter title in that case would become a book's subtitle instead, and, at any rate, it's a table of contents, not a table of chapters, giving semantic flexibility. Nick Levinson (talk) 22:36, 6 February 2010 (UTC)


Rich, I know you have helped to word the above guideline, and wanted to know if you would consider adding some additional text discussing the use of relevant redirect templates, which are found at: Wikipedia:Template messages/Redirect pages (for an example, see [23]). I don't like to be the only one editing derm guideline pages. Regardless, thank you for your help in the past! ---kilbad (talk) 23:19, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Ok, I added some text. What do you think? ---kilbad (talk) 23:32, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

picture(s) for Gordon Onslow Ford page

(This is my first time posting to one of these talk pages, so bear with me if I screw up.) I'm writing, Rich, about the Gordon Onslow Ford page that you edited. As a big fan of Onslow Ford, I'd like to see that his page has an image of at least one of his paintings, as do most of the other artist pages. But as a clueless newbie in Wiki-land, I don't know how to add such a pic or what the relevant rules might be. Would you be interested in adding it yourself? Or guiding me in the process? I can scan an appropriate pic or two with good resolution, etc.

Fiona-webster (talk) 00:51, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

WP:MOSNUM compliance issue of Template:Start date and age

Hi, Rich

There is an issue which you (and perhaps your bots) need to be aware of: For the sake of consistency of dates in software infoboxes, especially consistency between dates generated by {{Start date}} and {{Start date and age}} as well as dates generated by two {{Start date and age}}, I decided to rewrite the {{Start Date and Age}}.

In case you already don't know: The current Start date and age template outputs date through {{#dateformat:}} parser, making it look different to users depending on user preferences. In addition, the output of {{start date and age|2009|08|01}} ( = "August 1, 2009; 5 years ago (2009-08-01)") is not consistent with {{start date and age|2009|8|1}} ( = "August 1, 2009; 5 years ago (2009-08-01)"). Finally, another user in the template's discussion page has requested codes that causes the template to emit hCalendar microformat.

The new {{Start date and age}}, which is nearly finished (Template:Start date and age/sandbox), has a new df=yes parameter which makes it print dates in DMY format suitable for software articles. Perhaps you need to reconfigure your bots or we need to reach a different consensus. In any case, your feedback will of high value to me. So, please let me know what you think.

Fleet Command (talk) 11:36, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

By the way, you might like to check out Start date and age/testcases.
Fleet Command (talk) 11:39, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Quisque custodiet custodes

Dear Rich,

Should you like to discuss the point I raised, It has been going three months now. Have you ever considered being a politician, because the line I put in the opening sentence you never answered: WAS IT YOU OR SMACKBOT.

I know you are a good editor but when you have a bot you have responsibilities


YesY Answered on user's talk page. Rich Farmbrough, 17:56, 04 February 2010 (UTC).

The Temptations template

Hi, Rich! As I know you're both an admin and an expert on templates, I'm hoping might you fix a template issue for me. If you click on The Temptations discography and scroll on down to the bottom of the screen, where the template is, click on "v", you'll notice that this "view" is not for this template. The same goes with its talk page. Possibly, might you fix this, please? Thanks! Best, --Discographer (talk) 08:54, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

I knew you'd come through. The Temptations is correct, that's how it should be, the way you did it; and at the same time, Temptations should not even be! These are one of those groups like The Beatlles and The Supremes where The is actually part of the group name, though I suppose you already now that. Thanks my friend! Best, --Discographer (talk) 20:03, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
Fixed. Should these templates be merged? Rich Farmbrough, 21:20, 8 February 2010 (UTC).
Well, the template that reads just Temptations doesn't really have any use,as the real template, The Temptations, is correctly finished. Personally, I don't know where Temptations template came from, but it's not really needed. If you merge them, I'll just use the cursor and take that info out so all that's left is The Temptations template proper. Thanks! Best, --Discographer (talk) 22:46, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

The Wikipedia Signpost: 8 February 2010

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Since you show up on my watchlist

a dozen times a day I thought I'd return the favor. Or something. I recently created a category called Category: Hal Blaine Strikes Again and have been posting it on articles about the records that Hal Blaine played on. The title of the category refers to a rubber stamp that Blaine used to stamp his charts with. I realize that neither the category nor its name is mainstream, but, does everything need to be? Anyway, the category is up for deletion and I'm hoping that editors who at least are knowledgeable and care about this sort of thing will vote [[24]]. Vote any way that you wish, but do check it out. Einar aka Carptrash (talk) 03:21, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Unreferenced stub

FYI Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2010 February 5#Template:Unreferenced stub -- PBS (talk) 03:54, 10 February 2010 (UTC)


namen marega anti —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 04:39, 11 February 2010 (UTC)


Re: Greg Abbott citation needed, Van Orden v. Perry section

Hi there! I noticed you were the one who put the original citation needed in that little section in Greg Abbott's Wikipedia entry about the Van Orden v. Perry case. In that case, thanks ever so for doing that! The original wording gave completely the wrong impression about the gifting of those Ten Commandments monuments and I pointed to a source that told the actual story of what occurred, after changing the wording in the article. If you hadn't called out the article's need for a citation on this, it might've escaped my attention to look more into the story of how the monument in question was donated. So thanks! Arcana07 (talk) 06:10, 11 February 2010 (UTC)


  • I remember you once made a template to know the number of pages in a category. Could you remind me what it is called? Debresser (talk) 09:42, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
I found "PAGESINCATEGORY". It is a magic word, rather than a template, if I understand correctly. Debresser (talk) 10:22, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
See Wikipedia:List of monthly maintenance categories given month that I used it successfully. I think this is useful. If the number of pages in a category of this month is 0, then we won't create the corresponding category next month. If the number of pages in a category of the next month is not 0, then the articles have to be edited. You may want to improve the layout. Debresser (talk) 10:48, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Sounds reasonable.

Probably some fix to Template:Progress line 3, but I don't know how. Debresser (talk) 10:28, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
BTW, I created 2 new progress boxes for categories that didn't have them yet. No reason not to, right? Debresser (talk) 10:48, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

I looked at this... can't remember what happened. More progress boxes are good.

Hm. Not sure. It does no harm, maybe mark as historical.

If it were an abandoned page yes, but since it is replaced by something better, I propose deletion. Debresser (talk) 17:35, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
Turned it to {{historical}} for the mean time. Debresser (talk) 11:12, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Let me go and look again. Rich Farmbrough, 16:02, 8 February 2010 (UTC).

Looked ok.. Rich Farmbrough, 17:58, 11 February 2010 (UTC).
Then perhaps you could make the edit to {{BLP sources}}? Debresser (talk) 11:12, 12 February 2010 (UTC)


Rich - I have made further edits to the entry for Penny Templeton to remove any questionable POV language. It appears that you marked this entry as advertising. Please remove that edit from the page. Thanks. JediMaraJade (talk) 02:20, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

I wanted you to know

that the list that you generated is the basis for this article, or list. List of recordings of songs Hal Blaine has played on Thanks. eek aka Carptrash (talk) 17:42, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Great. Rich Farmbrough, 14:45, 13 February 2010 (UTC).


Could you please weigh in at Template_talk:Lead_too_short#Template_family_names_should_be_consistent, or just do the moves if you agree. Debresser (talk) 11:05, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

I see you went straight against the two proposals at Template_talk:Lead_too_short#Template_family_names_should_be_consistent. And you also ignored that we have two related templates that use the word "Intro", as you can see on the documentation of the template itself. Please have another look at that talk page. Debresser (talk) 17:28, 13 February 2010 (UTC)


I've just had somebody ranting on at me because of those categories (interestingly it was Debresser above). If you couldn't do it why couldn't you say something like "I'm busy" or "I don't want to". That would have been fine and I could have done it myself. Thanks for all your help to date anyway, I won't ask again. ‡ Himalayan ‡ ΨMonastery 23:24, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

No really "ranting" though. The problem was two-fold. 1. Changes to categories should really be discussed on WP:CFD. The more so when you want to rework a whole set of categories. 2. The {{HowtoreqphotoinEcuador}} template uses the categories including the addition ", Ecuador". Debresser (talk) 01:42, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

Yes , perhaps it should be discussed at CFD. Personally I think a category should only have a , Ecuador on the end if there is a province of the same name in another country. We typically go for minimalism with categorization. Imagine somebody is searching the simple province name category would be easier... ‡ Himalayan ‡ ΨMonastery 01:47, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

I agree with you, completely. But that leaves the problem with the template unsolved. Actually, the solution is to remove |Ecuador from that template, but that might have other repercussions. Debresser (talk) 02:22, 14 February 2010 (UTC)


 —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 22:54, 13 February 2010 (UTC) 

The Wikipedia Signpost: 15 February 2010

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Immanuel Lutheran Church (Hodgkins, Illinois) 17 February 2010

I am relatively new to Wikipedia and would like to get rid of the orphan tag. What is the proper way to do that? I introduced links to/from the article, do you have to remove the tag? Sorry for my ignorance. jdkscoop 19:38, 17 February 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Josephdklotz (talkcontribs)

Journal dabs

Could you run this one again? You will probably need to update User:Rich_Farmbrough/temp23, since we've created a lot of journal entries in the last few months. Headbomb {ταλκκοντριβς – WP Physics} 21:02, 17 February 2010 (UTC)


you have email.

ty. Rich Farmbrough, 07:44, 20 February 2010 (UTC).

Can you do your magic?

I am looking to get the list of sections that make up Rook's Textbook of Dermatology (see [25]). Restated, if you look at the link I provided to the google book version, if you use the "content" link located on the top middle of the page, I am looking for that type of listing, only complete. I ask for this, because I would like to use the outline of Rook's as a guide for the cutaneous conditions article, which is currently a real mess. Can you help me with this? ---kilbad (talk) 02:51, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

I can see no way to get this data, unfortunately. Rich Farmbrough, 06:39, 20 February 2010 (UTC).
UPDATE: So I actually found the content outline to Rook's Textbook of dermatology (see [26]) and have used/modified it to start a working outline for the cutaneous conditions article at Talk:Cutaneous_conditions#Working_outline. I intentionally tried to create an outline that does not mirror the list of cutaneous conditions structure because I think providing a different way to organize the information could be helpful. With that being said, how does the outline look to you. What changes do you think should be made, etc. Thanks again for your feedback! ---kilbad (talk) 21:11, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

Listify refs tool?

Hi Rich, I see your edit here and was wondering if this was done manually or (as I suspect) with a tool. If tool or script, mind sharing, since this is my favoured ref format? Huntster (t @ c) 03:19, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

It is done with a script. I intend to botify the script, but I will look at u/l ing it when I have done some more work on it. Rich Farmbrough, 06:41, 20 February 2010 (UTC).


Template:Worcs Mar2010

Ty Rich Farmbrough, 07:45, 23 February 2010 (UTC).

What's the point?

Please do not interpret my question as negative, in any way. I'm just, well, fascinated by what I'm seeing. First of all, you completely deserve any accolades for your copious contributions to this project, and you also deserve whatever privacy you wish, as well. But how can this provide you with any "privacy"? (Is that even the aim?) It just seems to me that, if the person in the #1 place removes his or her name, that it just increases the interest in that person.

Anyway, I know you don't owe me an answer as to why you have done this. I was just curious. HuskyHuskie (talk) 06:38, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

YesY Answered on user's talk page. Rich Farmbrough, 07:45, 23 February 2010 (UTC).
Thanks for the answer. I don't know what that person's problem was. Who gives a rat's behind if that was what motivated you? If it's good work for the encyclopedia, it's all good. Happy editing! HuskyHuskie (talk) 07:56, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

The Wikipedia Signpost: 22 February 2010

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Citation Needed

Hi Rich, Sorry this was added to the SmackBot page before I saw the comment on historical matters.

If I read things correctly you have entered [citation needed] against the statement 'Friction stir welding was introduced by The Welding Institute' on the page for The Welding Institute. But the term 'Friction Stir Welding' is a link to the Wiki page on that process where it states that The Welding Institute invented the process and holds several patents on it. I thought this was sufficient citation, is there anything more to be done?

Thanks Davemckeown 16:06, 24 February 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Davemckeown (talkcontribs)


Thank you smackbot for the good things you do.Adam in MO Talk 08:00, 25 February 2010 (UTC)


Please see Wikipedia_talk:Deletion_discussions#Have_all_XfD_be_substituted_and_link_to_the_actual_page_of_discussion. I am sure you have something to say about this. Debresser (talk) 10:39, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

Repeated call of attention to problem

Please see Category:Wikipedia maintenance categories with missing months that as soon as there is 1 article tagged with a non-existing month, all monthly categories show up there. Surely that can be fixed. Debresser (talk) 12:22, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

I'm not seeing that. Rich Farmbrough, 11:19, 26 February 2010 (UTC).
OK I found it, it was something Pascal put in progress line 3. I took it out, but I still need to re-read the rest of that change when I'm less tired. Rich Farmbrough, 11:34, 26 February 2010 (UTC).
Ok, rest well. There are still two pages in Category:Wikipedia maintenance categories with missing months that weren't there before, and I have no idea why. Debresser (talk) 12:52, 26 February 2010 (UTC)


I saw Category:Articles with invalid date parameter in template with over 100 pages. I did all non-main article namespace ones. Are you having problems, and should I make an effort to help out? Debresser (talk) 13:14, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

Done. Except for the protected Whaling in Japan. Which needs "Feb." -> "February". Debresser (talk) 22:41, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
Yes it got held up for some reason then I had a bunch to do - several thousand - of course runs that long usually stall a few times, plus comments left on the talk page stopping it. Once the run is complete, a new run will attack the invalid date category again - it is the first category tackled. Rich Farmbrough, 11:36, 26 February 2010 (UTC).

Scam of readers via wikipedia content

Please read and help Free Wikipedia articles are on sale as printed books for 50 dollars each in with no prior warning Kasaalan (talk) 14:03, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

Bot conversions to {{Start date}}

Are you intending to do any more of these date conversions, which you kindly started some time ago, but which seem to have stalled? Please let me know if not, and I'll ask elsewhere. Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 19:51, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

Mississippi Goddam

Exactly what kind of references would be suitable for the removal of the tag on Mississippi Goddam? I just found out about that song for the first time, and the only one I can think of is a YouTube link, or perhaps some article from All-Music Guide if there is one(I'll try to find out if they have an article specifically on that song, although I can't imagine any reason for them not to. ----DanTD (talk) 23:36, 27 February 2010 (UTC)


Hi Rich, Can you remove all the {{Unreferenced|date=December 2009}} tags from, presumably, hundreds of pages in the "years in architecture" series? These pages are similar to lists on Wikipedia, and as such don't follow the same strict guidelines as articles. In addition, references for the facts in these pages are to be found within the articles themselves, and the duplication of the references would be impractical.

Example page: 1971 in architecture. Let me know if this works for you. Thanks, Dogears (talk) 04:24, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

SmackBot re WP:MOSUNLINKDATES on dab pages

I think SmackBot shouldn't remove date links that are the only links in a line on disambiguation pages. [27] I'll undo it. If I'm mistaken or it's controversial, let me know. -Galatee (talk) 15:45, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

SmackBot - Nice!

Just wanted to say how much I appreciated the work of SmackBot as it passed through. I kept it rather busy last night... :-o -- Haruth (talk) 01:04, 1 March 2010 (UTC)


I can't be entirely sure, but I think there may be a problem when SmackBot encounters the 'cite comic' template. If the date= field is only populated with a year, it converts the field name to year= . This results in the date being displayed as ({{{date}}}). Whilst many comics may be weekly or monthly publications, there are occasions when a comic is a one off and or the precise date or month of publication is unknown; hence the entry of a year only.

The most recent example of this I have noted is after SmackBot ran against the article Dalek variants on 19 February 2010. Regards, Donlock 18:08, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

IUPAC Article

I am working on the IUPAC article for a school project for Duquesne University. I appreciate the fixing some typos and fixing my wiki markup, but smackbot also added a tag for secondary sources. I have used the IUPAC website for most of the sources, but some of the ones that are hosted on that domain are actually publications.

I am doing my best to keep the article neutral and include any sources I can, but I can't seem to find a lot of sources that smackbot will find as being secondary. Could you give me some examples, or check my sources to see if they would even qualify as primary sources? Salamakajakawaka (talk) 13:46, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

The Wikipedia Signpost: 1 March 2010

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I've just done a few tweaks on Princess Ileana's page.

I have her 1937 and 1938 Christmas cards sent to my mother, which I have scanned. They show her and her children and husband, and I feel they should be on her Page. But I don't know the copyright situation... I GUESS they are "public domain" by now ? I'm a WikiNovice... —Preceding unsigned comment added by RobinClay (talkcontribs) 20:21, 3 March 2010 (UTC) RobinClay (talk) 20:37, 3 March 2010 (UTC)


SmackBot doesn't seem to be able to deal with the article issues template. I noticed this by its edit to Berserk (manga) on February 23. It changed "section=y" to "section=February 2010" and added "|date=February 2010" to the end of the template. This did not change the outward appearance of the article. AndrewTJ31 (talk) 01:33, 4 March 2010 (UTC)


Thanks for your help on the Willis Seaver Adams page. My students are about to go on vacation; hopefully, they will work a little on it then. We'll also invest more time with the page at the end of March.

Thanks again--Bill —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wscrowsnest (talkcontribs) 05:30, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Infobox Hungarian settlement puts in image_shield of standard form HUN_PlaceName_COA.jpg, so I use this new form

Hey Rich,

I have taken a bit of a wikibreak but am back now (I am sure you are glad). Please let me assure you that my complaints etc against you are not in anyway personal, just vigorous. But today I have a slight bit of good news for you.

With {{tlx|Infobox Hungarian settlement}] it now pulls in the image shield by default, although that can be overridden. Thanks to Debresser and another for getting that to work. So we get a little better.

I kinda disagree with it because er you specialise classes to make them simpler for editors to use. Of course Infobox Settlement does everything, but it means it is incredibly long. That makes it slower, too. In other places there is {{Infobox writer}} then {{Infobox musician}} etc, which are based on an underlying template, but simplify its use and tweak it to what is appropriate. H. Info. does the same, and Infobox settlement is way too complex for a normal editor. And mostly just plain wrong.

Thanks for fixing the problems with the population field.

Si Trew (talk) 08:44, 4 March 2010 (UTC)


I've emailed you, Rich. Tony (talk) 11:22, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Wings Discography

Hi Rich. Is there a way you can "move" this article to Wings discography as the D should be lower-cased? Their use to be an article by that name, briefly, which was redirected to Paul McCartney discography. Thanks! Best, --Discographer (talk) 01:31, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Thank you, Rich! Best, --Discographer (talk) 21:54, 7 March 2010 (UTC)
P.S. Rich, oh, could you also move its talk page, too, please? Thanks! Best, --Discographer (talk) 22:06, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

The Wikipedia Signpost: 8 March 2010

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Merge discussion for Media planner

Information.svg An article that you have been involved in editing, Media planner, has been proposed for a merge with another article. If you are interested in the merge discussion, please participate by going here, and adding your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. Avicennasis @ 09:49, 11 March 2010 (UTC) Avicennasis @ 09:49, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

Help importing ICD codes from another site

Could you help me with my request here: Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine#Would_you_help_me_create_four_disease_stubs.3F? I think importing all those ICD codes could function as another required articles list that I could work through. ---kilbad (talk) 06:09, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

SmackBot no longer fixing dates

SmackBot recently edited both these articles but fixed the dates in neither: Nikolai Bukharin Pravda. --Pascal666 20:09, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

Bot Trial Approved

Hey Rich, I approved Smackbot XXV for trial. Good luck! Tim1357 (talk) 11:10, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Old policy page

This may seem out of the blue, but what was the reasoning behind this? I ask because of this Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)#Policy in development--Jac16888Talk 04:22, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

Rajagopal (professor)

This article has been linked to various articles of Wikipedia including brand architecture, sales management, account management, shopping malls, consumer behaviour, agricultural marketing, rural Marketing, EGADE, Institute of Rural Management and many more whch are more than ten articles of academic nature. Hence, the article on Rajagoapl (professor) is not Orphan. It would be highly appreciated if the tag of orphan article is removed from this article. Regards. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Edo198 (talkcontribs) 05:26, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

The Wikipedia Signpost: 15 March 2010

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Thank you again so much for putting the Wikipedia:WikiProject_Medicine/Dermatology_task_force/ILDS-ICD page together. It is providing some great redirects that will really improve the project! ---kilbad (talk) 02:37, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Bot question

Hi Rich, Recently the article that had been titled Baptist has been moved to Baptists. I have changed the link on all of the templates and major pages. Is it possible to have a bot change any links currently pointing to Baptist to link instead to Baptists, ideally keeping whatever visible text is there and only piping the link? Thanks! Novaseminary (talk) 14:19, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

Thank for your reply. I proposed it over at Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser/Tasks#Baptist--.3EBaptists. Unless you think it should be done (and you know much, much more about this sort of thing than I), I'll leave it alone. Thanks! Novaseminary (talk) 18:39, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

Nature photonics

I did a page move by mistake - (an error in judgement). I tried to revert the move, but it has the same title that I did the move under. I was trying to change "Nature Photonics" to "nature photonics" (all small letters). It is the way that the title is published. Anyway, the move produced "Nature photonics" - no help. First, that is not what I intended. Second, all the other Nature journal articles begin with capitals in both words, so this article is no longer consistent with these.

For example: Nature · Nature Biotechnology · Nature Cell Biology · Nature Chemical Biology · Nature Genetics Nature Nanotechnology · Nature Photonics · Nature Physics · Nature Chemistry etc., etc (There are many such articles. There is a template on the bottom of this article that lists them.)

If you have time - is there anyway to fix this? Just so you know I queried another administrator (Materialscientist) but this person will be unavailable for a couple more hours. Steve Quinn (formerly Ti-30X) (talk) 03:06, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

Looks like that's been done. Rich Farmbrough, 08:10, 20 March 2010 (UTC).

Bot conversions to {{Start date}}

Are you intending to do any more of these date conversions, which you kindly started some time ago, but which seem to have stalled? Please let me know if not, and I'll ask elsewhere. {This is the third time I've asked this here, recently; I don;t meant to harass, but you appear to have an over-eager archiving bot). Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 16:46, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

Hi Andy, been meaning to get back to you on this, not been very active on-wiki recently.
I was thinking about the advances made with date handling and I'm wondering if the articles is the place for the templates to go now.
Since there are templates that deal with loosely formatted dates, these can just handle a date parameter passed from the infobox, rather than invading every article using the infobox.
Is there any reason this can't be done? Rich Farmbrough, 21:28, 20 March 2010 (UTC).
I don't believe that would be robust, nor versatile, enough. Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 22:03, 20 March 2010 (UTC)


Dear Smackbot,

my name is Cathrin Pokrant. I work for Swissôtel Le Plaza Basel and have contributed to the wikipedia page Swissôtel Le Plaza Basel ( Unfortunately there are two comments on the page that indicate that our language might be too advertising. Could you please review our page again and tell me what I can change in order to get rid of the comments?

I appreciate your help and look forward to hearing from you. You can also contact me per e-mail

Kind regards, Cathrin Pokrant —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cat84 (talkcontribs) 13:19, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

what happened here?

It looks like this edit removed the millions separator from the population_total field. I will revert that part of it. --Stepheng3 (talk) 01:20, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

That'd be right if it were an {{Infobox settlement}}. However, {{Infobox Indian Jurisdiction}} doesn't provide the commas for you.--Stepheng3 (talk) 02:51, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
Perils of forks.. sigh. Rich Farmbrough, 16:12, 22 March 2010 (UTC).
Sympathy. Best regards, --Stepheng3 (talk) 20:46, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

Second References section left in List of North American cities by year of foundation

The mistaken edit that the SmackBot program made was this one. I corrected the problem by hand here. (talk) 03:05, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

This is odd, I suspect AWB added the latter list of it's own accord, not being quite as smart in this particular domain. Rich Farmbrough, 15:54, 24 March 2010 (UTC).


please check your email.

Archive. Rich Farmbrough, 15:03, 25 March 2010 (UTC).

edits to Nieuwe Meer

The page looked worse after this SmackBot edit than it did when you last edited it. I have attempted to correct the problems by hand. (talk) 03:23, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

The problem here was adding standard information when some but not al; was already there. Specific clean-up of these pages happened by and large so that most but not all the maps were integrated. Rich Farmbrough, 15:57, 24 March 2010 (UTC).
Having browsed through articles that start with the letter "A" in Category:Cities, towns and villages in North Holland it seems that the use of {{Dutch town locator maps}} is to blame for stuffing too many images into articles that also have Infobox settlement templates. The following articles currently exhibit display problems:
My suspicion is that any article that uses {{Dutch town locator maps}} may need to be checked. Since the fix is often to get rid of the "Dutch town locator maps" template and to place images into the settlement infobox the {{Dutch town locator maps}} may become orphaned. (talk) 00:20, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

SmackBot edits to Sloten (Amsterdam)

The article looked vandalised after this edit by SmackBot than it did after your last edit. I have tried to undo the damage done by SmackBot and add more material to the article since SmackBot last attacked it. (talk) 03:28, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

Well thanks for your positive comments. Rich Farmbrough, 14:56, 24 March 2010 (UTC).

The Wikipedia Signpost: 22 March 2010

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Biographical template mergers

Please note: Template talk:Infobox person#Mergers, redux. Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 14:32, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

"build xyz"

What's with the ":build 402:" messages in every edit summary? We don't care. If you want to track your software versions, do it internally. Gurch (talk) 13:01, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

BAGBot: Your bot request SmackBot XXV

Someone has marked Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/SmackBot XXV as needing your input. Please visit that page to reply to the requests. Thanks! AnomieBOT 19:40, 28 March 2010 (UTC) To opt out of these notifications, place {{bots|optout=operatorassistanceneeded}} anywhere on this page.


Thanks again for your help with the broken DoD links a few months ago. It was a big help.

Rather than setting a bot at the task I think you used a robot assisted editing tool to change them yourself.

There is a similar broken URL. And, I would like to use that robot assisted editing tool, or a similar one, to fix them myself. Do I need to be authorized to use that tool? Can you help me with some hints as to how to use that tool?

Thanks! Geo Swan (talk) 18:18, 30 March 2010 (UTC)


Would you please care to look into the issue indicated in this edit. Debresser (talk) 12:06, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

The Wikipedia Signpost: 29 March 2010

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Manual requests for SmackBot

Another useful bot, CorenSearchBot, accepts manual requests to check a page at User:CorenSearchBot/manual. Could you do something similar for SmackBot to allow users to request a SmackBot test of a page they have worked on? Eastmain (talkcontribs) 00:51, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Yes. Have been looking at this sort of thing. But General Fixes are currently mainly on hold, because there are a couple people object to a couple of them. Rich Farmbrough, 11:03, 2 April 2010 (UTC).

Coalition Casualties Update

1707 killed(US:1032, UK: 279, Others: 396)

8,938+ wounded(US: 5,393[1], UK: 3,545[2]) (talk) 09:46, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Soapy Smith

Please be careful when using automated tools, because you broke a template in your recent edit of Soapy Smith. I have fixed the error. —Notyourbroom (talk) 16:21, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for your note, it was manual. Rich Farmbrough, 17:30, 4 April 2010 (UTC).


I tried it out yesterday. I am afraid it seemed to me to be the kind of tool that only seems obviously easy to use to those already familiar.

I couldn't figure out, for example, the automatic find and replace, or the automated prepend feature.

I'll keep trying... Geo Swan (talk) 00:00, 5 April 2010 (UTC)


Would you care to move {{Inuse}} to {{In use}}, {{Increation}} to {{In creation}}, and {{Newpage}} to {{New page}}? Debresser (talk) 06:22, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

Yes I cared. Rich Farmbrough, 15:28, 4 April 2010 (UTC).
Thanks. Debresser (talk) 19:59, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

The Wikipedia Signpost: 5 April 2010

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Amish school shooting @Amish response with forgiveness

Rich, your smackbot apparently found dead links and when I tried to correct one by substitute the link [28] and deleting the dead link notation between the {{}} for reference 17, it still shows as a dead link. Maybe if you'll tell me why I can ask to work on some others, as he worked on the original article and his bio notes he likes to fix references. BTW, grammatically, maybe the section title should be "respond" --Beth Wellington (talk) 05:25, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks! It was 17 when I edited it????--Beth Wellington (talk) 08:51, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

It may be a mess, but I need to work on the Montcoal disaster, not this. Just happened by to look up a reference for my blog post on Fred Phelps, who is coming to Blacksburg. See: Shout out to the Naughty: Fred Phelps May Be Coming to Town. Just as he picketed the memorial service for the Sago Mine disaster, now he's also threatening to come to WV for the Montcoal disaster.

Do you have suggestions for what the Amish article needs, besides the dead links fixed?--Beth Wellington (talk) 09:25, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Oops, it appears that Mr. Hunt hasn't been on Wikipedia since maybe 2006. He started off going great guns, but something must have happened. Maybe I'll look through the history and find someone else later, but for now, I'm on to my other projects. Cheers.--Beth Wellington (talk) 10:13, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

AWB bug input: template doc subpages

AWB bug input: Wikipedia_talk:AutoWikiBrowser/Bugs#Issues_with_Template:Xxxx.2Fdoc_pages_.28part_II.29. I've addressed the {PAGENAME} issue. What, if anything is AWB needed to do over the DEFAULTSORT? Rjwilmsi 17:42, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Well I am uneasy about this, but to conform to the current doc pages, not add a DEFAULTSORT. The header template {{Template doc page transcluded}}/{{Template doc page viewed directly}} => {{Documentation subpage}} adds this code: {{DEFAULTSORT:{{{defaultsort|{{PAGENAME}}}}}}} (and that is after I added the parameter to allow overriding). This seems to me unfortunate as it stops custom DEFAULTSORTS being used unless you know the template has an override - and anyway the top of the doc page is an odd place to put it for either the doc or the template. Arguably we could make things better by replacing the cliché

<includeonly>{{template doc page transcluded}}</includeonly><noinclude>{{template doc page viewed directly}}</noinclude>


<includeonly>{{template doc page transcluded|defaultsort=Title Cased Template Name}}</includeonly><noinclude>{{template doc page viewed directly|defaultsort=Title Cased Documentation Name}}</noinclude>

Rich Farmbrough, 07:29, 9 April 2010 (UTC).

Dead end

In this edit I had to restore the spelling "dead-end", to avoid problems with categorisation, although I think it should be "dead end". We also have Wikipedia:Dead-end pages. Should they be moved to "dead end"? Debresser (talk) 09:36, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Hi Debresser. Just noticed your inquiry. If I'm not mistaken, whenever the phrase is used as an adjective, the hyphen should be used, as in "dead-end street" and "dead-end pages". If the phrase is on its own as a noun, then no hyphen should be used, as in, "That street is a dead end".
 —  Paine (Ellsworth's Climax)  12:40, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for commenting. If that is correct, then I off course have no further questions. Debresser (talk) 14:42, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
I believe that is close to the final word - for me the important thing is avoiding ambiguity, even spurious ambiguity which makes stuff harder to parse. So as there are end-pages of books, I would tend to hyphenate "dead-end page" to distinguish it from "dead end-page". Similarly "light-green jacket" is not a "light green-jacket" or even a "green light jacket". The Wiktionary examples, incidentally include both hyphenated and unhyphenated noun forms. Rich Farmbrough, 08:07, 9 April 2010 (UTC).
Thanks. Also a good argument. Debresser (talk) 18:26, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

STOPnote from 5 April

I left the following STOPnote on SmackBot's Talk page back on the 5th...

STOP Re: Hatnotes !

The note's since been erased, but I haven't been notified of any action taken. Was the bot repaired?
 —  Paine (Ellsworth's Climax)  12:26, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

I would need to investigate whether this is still a problem for SB, I think not though. I will drop a note at the AWB pages. Rich Farmbrough, 03:25, 9 April 2010 (UTC).
Thank you, Rich!  —  Paine (Ellsworth's Climax)  02:03, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Feature request for Template:Failed verification


Since you've worked on the template in the past, could you please consider adding links to talk page to Template:Failed verification. Otherwise, could you comment at the discussion.

Thanks, SteveMcCluskey (talk) 22:16, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Done. Rich Farmbrough, 07:55, 9 April 2010 (UTC).

Antineutrino edits

A "bot" has apparently reversed some of the edits I made to antineutrino. I've been trying to merge it with neutrino--Robert Treat (talk) 22:38, 9 April 2010 (UTC).

YesY Answered on user's talk page. Rich Farmbrough, 20:08, 12 April 2010 (UTC).

A question on AWB settings

Hi Rich,

I was wondering if you could help me.

On the Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser/Settings page, I have noticed a number of scripts written by you.

I clicked on one, Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser/Settings/Full date unlinking, which reveals a page of code.

I'm not quite sure of the next step.

Could you tell me how to import this code in AWB in order to make use of the feature?

Kind Regards -- Marek.69 talk 23:44, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Thank you very much for the quick response, Rich
One more question, if I may, can I use more than one of these scripts at once, e.g. ‘Full date unlinking’ and ‘/Removing caps in headers’, at the same time in AWB?
Regards -- Marek.69 talk 23:57, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
OK, that sounds a little complicated (and likely to introduce errors)
I think I will stick by running them one a time to begin with.
Thank you for all your help Rich, its much appreciated :-)
Kind Regards -- Marek.69 talk 00:16, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

SmackBot and legitimate orphans

SmackBot recently tagged SATA International destinations as an orphan [29]. However, in the case of articles such as this, their status as an orphan is entirely legitimate (the airline article, rather than the list, should be linked to). I'd actually removed the tag earlier in the day. How can situations like this be avoided? (See the discussion I've started at Wikipedia talk:Orphan#Airline destination lists.) Thanks, --RFBailey (talk) 04:05, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

I mentioned you in a bot request

The Wikipedia Signpost: 12 April 2010

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What exactly was the point of most of this big edit? Is there not a general principle that if it is just editorial style changes that does not affect the view of the article, then such changes should not be made as it makes it difficult for editors to keep track of changes? -- PBS (talk) 01:37, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

Well it's fairy modest, but your point is well made I will ponder it. Rich Farmbrough, 02:00, 17 April 2010 (UTC).

Smackbot XXV

Task approved. Snowolf How can I help? 03:30, 17 April 2010 (UTC)


Hi Rich! Thank you for checking my new (and first) article. I added now links to diferent pages in Wiki so it would not be orphan anymore. "Stockholm Lisboa Project" page. One more question I don't know how to handle is . I created first the page with small caps on "lisboa" and "project", this was wrong. Then I created the page with big caps "Stockholm Lisboa Project" and moved the other to this. How to delete the first attempt with small "l" and small "p"?

Thank you! Regards Sergiosbox (talk) 06:14, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

It is fine to leave the redirect to Stockholm Lisboa Project. Redirects are cheap - so cheap that they cost less to leave than to delete in some ways. {{Orphan}} refers to pages with no links from other articles. Adding sensible links to other articles is a Good Thing[TM], however. Rich Farmbrough, 13:30, 17 April 2010 (UTC).


Hi, I was wondering if you could change:


  • This will reduce the confusing templates
  • Both otheruses templates redirect to the above latter templates

TIA174.3.123.220 (talk) 20:53, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

Already does this in passing. Note that it is {{Other uses}} now. Rich Farmbrough, 22:14, 17 April 2010 (UTC).
No mass change in this way should be made while the RFD is open. — Carl (CBM · talk) 02:56, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
That's not what is being asked for here if you read the botreq. Rich Farmbrough, 03:05, 18 April 2010 (UTC).
I didn't know there was a botreq; I was just following up on the IP's edits. The IP has already asked at least one other bot operator to do a mass change, which would not be appropriate while the RFD is open. I know you would check before actually doing a 15,000 page bot run, I just wanted to leave a pointer since I have already mentioned the same thing to some other bot operator. — Carl (CBM · talk) 03:08, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Too Short

The Too Short Template {Too Short} keeps giting confused by Smack Bot that it means Lead Too Short which it doesnt. And it removes the Too Short Template and puts

such as this edit Have any way to stop this STAT- Verse 07:07, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Actually that is exactly what {{Too short}} means. Maybe you are looking for {{Expand}}? Rich Farmbrough, 07:11, 18 April 2010 (UTC).
No in case u didn't know there is a rapper named Too Short and his template is Too Short which resalts in this
STAT- Verse 07:14, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
Of course there is a rapper called Too Short.. sigh.. thanks for telling me. Lets dot this one out. Rich Farmbrough, 07:15, 18 April 2010 (UTC).
Fixed Rich Farmbrough, 14:06, 18 April 2010 (UTC).

SmackBot formatting citations

Hi; I've noticed that SmackBot changes "year" fields in citations to "date". However, User:RjwilmsiBot changes "date" fields in citations to "year". I see potential for conflict so I'm cross-posting this to both bot's owners. - JRBrown (talk) 01:49, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

YesY Answered on user's talk page. Rich Farmbrough, 02:00, 17 April 2010 (UTC).
Follow-up to that regarding this edit: in some cases, the use of |date= for a year alone, without day or month, can break {{harv}} linking (it doesn't always do so, I can't yet determine the circumstances). Also in your changes to that article, I see no sensible reason for any of these changes, except for the DEFAULTSORT one.
In particular, there are hundreds, if not thousands, of railway-related articles which use the {{stnlnk}} template (or one of its five aliases such as {{rws}}), so has this been discussed at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK Railways? --Redrose64 (talk) 12:41, 17 April 2010 (UTC)
The cite templates have special code to deal with Harvard referencing. They use the date field if no year field is present, and combine it with the author name. There are some 700 articles where the year is not set to a plain year, about half of these use Harvard referencing in a template, some of the rest use it in text format. In any case it is a little odd to have "year = 2007g ", although that is a slightly different matter, this can be handled by the ref field in a number of ways (1. ref=Godd2006g, 2. using CITEREF, 3 modifying cite php or allowing page variables - which are the best because they would avoid leaving gaps and all the other problems associated with manually maintaining a sequence), or by having a new field (remember in these cases you might need a date field AND a year field, in all other cases it is a Bad Thing to have both).
In the case of of rws/stnlnk there are three things going on here;
  1. there is a template name that is not particularly readable. I thought, for example, that RWS might be Victorian train company I hadn't heard of, or the Railway Society, maybe they had a link, or some special reference work. Similarly Stnlnk, although I was pretty sure it meant "station link" I expected it to be an external link, or possibly something to do with a railway use of the word "link" (as in Alençon Link perhaps).
  2. the template name is a short-cut - basically it save typing and reduces errors
  3. the substituted code is a slightly verbose [[Xxxxxxxx Yyyyyy railway station|Xxxxxx yyyyyyy]] construct - but one we encounter a lot, not just with railway stations. This is possibly the critical point on my mind at the moment.
This is why I haven't done anything substantive at the moment. Options are varied and with various pros and cons
  1. do nothing - pros;easy, cons; readability
  2. move all templates to Stnlnk or Station link or Railway station link - pros; easy, cons still not intuitive for new editors
  3. subst all templates; pros; easy, action of link readable - con; wiki code slightly cluttered
  4. create or find a generic "back extension" template something like {{X|Display bit|extra bit for link}} {{City state}} is a little like this. Pros; easy, wiki-wide, reads forward. Cons, might need special handling for separators, still adds learning curve.
  5. Ask for a MediaWiki extension, something like [[Basingstoke|| railway station]]. Pros, highly readable, low learnign curve, fits existing syntax. Cons, people might have trouble with ||, might take several years to happen.
Rich Farmbrough, 15:19, 17 April 2010 (UTC).
I know what the citation templates are supposed to do with dates to allow Harvard ref linking; the point is, it doesn't always work. If |date= contains all three components of a full date, it works fine. But if the day is unknown and therefore omitted, sometimes an incomplete |date= works but sometimes it doesn't, so it's safest to omit |date= and instead use |year= (and |month= if you have one).
Consider this; refs 5, 26, 42, 64 are "Oppitz 2003". The Harvard ref (which here is done using {{sfn}}) correctly creates a link to #CITEREFOppitz2003; however, clicking any of these four does not move to the "Sources" section. Examination of the wikicode shows that the {{cite book}} has |date=2003; but examination of the HTML source code shows that the generated anchor is <span class="citation book" id="CITEREFOppitz2010">. I have absolutely no idea why "2010" has been used instead of "2003"; what I do know is that if I change |date=2003 to |year=2003, as here, the generated HTML anchor becomes <span class="citation book" id="CITEREFOppitz2003"> and the shortened footnote now links correctly: #CITEREFOppitz2003.
Also, please examine the first diff that I gave: by changing |year=1976 to |date=1976 you changed this:
  • Conolly, W. Philip (January 1976). British Railways Pre-Grouping Atlas and Gazetteer (5th ed.). Shepperton: Ian Allan. ISBN 0 7110 0320 3. EX/0176. 
to this
  • Conolly, W. Philip (1976). British Railways Pre-Grouping Atlas and Gazetteer (5th ed.). Shepperton: Ian Allan. ISBN 0 7110 0320 3. EX/0176. 
that is, |month=January is now ignored.
I would still like to see consensus obtained from Wikipedia:WikiProject UK Railways before further removal of {{stnlnk}}. --Redrose64 (talk) 16:45, 17 April 2010 (UTC)
OK cite book is bugged I will fix that presently.
The month point it one I have become aware of, and will be avoiding that problem.
AS I indicated above I am not looking to do anything much with stnlink in the short term.
Rich Farmbrough, 23:14, 18 April 2010 (UTC).
Fix for cite book at {{Cite book/sandbox}}. Doing some extensive testing. Rich Farmbrough, 01:26, 19 April 2010 (UTC).

SmackBot uncommenting template

In this edit, SmackBot moved a template ({{dab}}) from inside a comment to outside the comment. Probably not a good idea .... --R'n'B (call me Russ) 10:04, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, looking into it. Rich Farmbrough, 16:00, 17 April 2010 (UTC).
Seems to not be happening with the latest AWB. Rich Farmbrough, 04:45, 19 April 2010 (UTC).
Hm, yes it does. Bug filed. Rich Farmbrough, 13:42, 19 April 2010 (UTC).

SmackBot - removing urls from dead link template

Any idea why SmackBot would have removed urls from two dead link templates in this edit? I think the url use follows the template correctly, and Wayback Machine archives do exist for these pages so the links serve a purpose. Ryan Paddy (talk) 20:23, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Yes some idea, it's not deliberate. For some reason it is interpreting it as part of the date field, I think. This is odd because there are other examples in the same article where it does not do that. Rich Farmbrough, 20:33, 18 April 2010 (UTC).
Ok this is an AWb issue, it seems to count the |url= as part of the URL - since I told it to ignore URLS, the } is taken as the delimiter of a strange date field. Raising a bug. Rich Farmbrough, 01:24, 19 April 2010 (UTC).
Thanks Rich. Ryan Paddy (talk) 02:27, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

SmackBot removing blank lines

Hi Rich, in at least one article SmackBot has removed the single blank lines after section titles. As the WP MoS declares these lines optional and many editors, including myself, think that they make the article source more readable, the removal by SmackBot doesn't seem appropriate. Would you please modify the, otherwise much appreciated, bot accordingly? Many thanks, --EnOreg (talk) 09:40, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Done. Rich Farmbrough, 13:02, 19 April 2010 (UTC).
Great--thanks much! --EnOreg (talk) 13:24, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Template subst issue

Here is a strange edit [30]. I'm leaving it here so as not to stop the bot. — Carl (CBM · talk) 04:37, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

More: [31]

Yes I'm aware of it. Due to users fiddling with the line I think. I put a tempfix, but ha to regenerate the ruleset for other reasons. Rich Farmbrough, 15:28, 20 April 2010 (UTC).
Either that or the start template was broken. Whichever it has now been fixed to avoid this problem. Rich Farmbrough, 15:36, 20 April 2010 (UTC).
Interesting to note how many links there were to these non-existent templates, maybe a dozen to 2010, 6 to 2009 and a few to 2008. Rich Farmbrough, 18:28, 20 April 2010 (UTC).

I think that having a robot re-order the sequences of grouped citations is a bad idea

I think that having a robot re-order the sequences of grouped citations is a bad idea. That the choice of which cite to put first is a part of editor content and should not be automatically undone by a robot. Sincerely North8000 (talk) 11:12, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

The Wikipedia Signpost: 19 April 2010

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Hello ! I saw that you've contributed to do the article on Kappa Opioid receptors and I wondered if you could tell me where they are situated in the brain (not in the spinal cord), in which part of the brain they are situated.

I am doing a work on salvia dovinorum and I talk a lot about Salvinorin A, so knowing where its agonist receptor (the opioid kappa) is located will help me a lot to know how Salvinorin A affects the brain !

And sorry for my english, it's really bad lol (I'm French ...^^)

please answer to b2o.marc of —Preceding unsigned comment added by Evendar (talkcontribs) 17:19, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

Hello! Thanks for your message. Unfortunately (or fortunately) User:SmackBot is a WP:BOT, an automated process, and has little or no understanding of these matters, yet. Rich Farmbrough, 17:24, 21 April 2010 (UTC).

Edit Request(Coalition Casualties Update)

1,733 killed(US:1047, UK: 281, Others: 405)[3]

9,967+ wounded(US: 5,629[4], UK: 3,608[5], Canada : +400[6], Germany: 166, Australia: 120[7], Romania: 44[8])

Please update War in Afghanistan(2001-present) article. (talk) 04:15, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
Copied to article talk page by Rich Farmbrough, 04:22, 22 April 2010 (UTC).
Except it is already there. Rich Farmbrough, 04:24, 22 April 2010 (UTC).

institute for policy studies

Hi again Mr. Farmbrough. Apparently I'm involved in an edit war again with user annonymous who has been blanking information that I've been putting up. Is there anyway I can report this person to the Wikipedia administrators? Fellytone (talk) 16:52, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

YesY Answered on user's talk page. Rich Farmbrough, 16:58, 22 April 2010 (UTC).

Articles with sections needing rewrite progress

Are you still using this template? Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 15:19, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Category:Articles with sections needing rewrite has been deleted, so no. Rich Farmbrough, 15:22, 23 April 2010 (UTC).
Great, I deleted the template. That's one more off the orphan list. Thanks! Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 20:40, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Central Intelligence Agency Office of Inspector General

thanks Decora (talk) 13:49, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

Infobox journalist

Can you please comment in User_talk:Magioladitis#Another bot job? -- Magioladitis (talk) 10:32, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Merge categories?

I just now noticed Category:Too long article in {{Very long}}. Shouldn't that be merged with Category:Articles that may be too long? If you think it shold, you could either do it, or I could nominate them at WP:CFD for a merge. Debresser (talk) 11:18, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

It's just the "all articles " version. But it seem unnecessary to have it in the template, like the other "all articles" categories. Rich Farmbrough, 11:25, 25 April 2010 (UTC).
I see. Are you up to tackling them already? At least I think it should be renamed from Category:Too long article to Category:All articles that may be too long, don't you think so? Debresser (talk) 11:30, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
I adjusted the template. Rich Farmbrough, 11:55, 25 April 2010 (UTC).
In the best possible way, if you ask me. Debresser (talk) 12:12, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Did you see the categories of Template:Very short?? Debresser (talk) 12:23, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

As far as I am concerned this recently created template, in use on 1 article precisely, can be nominated for deletion. Debresser (talk) 12:30, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
Replaced, there. Rich Farmbrough, 12:32, 25 April 2010 (UTC).
Nominated on Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2010_April_25#Template:Very_short. Please add your opinion there. Debresser (talk) 12:35, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
Should I remove that nomination, now that you have redirected it to {{Expand}}? Debresser (talk) 12:37, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
Just close it as speedied. I deleted two fo the redirects and redirected the other two. Time for some sleep. Rich Farmbrough, 12:38, 25 April 2010 (UTC).

Citation requested at Bazooka article

Dear Rich, You left a citation note at the Bazooka article at the Korean War section for a reference on the Chinese copying the 3.5-inch. I thought that was incorrect but I dragged out a copy of Janes Infantry Weapon 1976 and it states the Chinese did indeed copy the 3.5-inch as the Type 51. I left a reference and I hope that is adequate. I can find nothing else. Jack --Jackehammond (talk) 06:06, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Dear Rich, Could you go to this Bazooka history page. It shows my account inserting a vandalism comment which I did not do?????? Jack--Jackehammond (talk) 17:16, 25 April 2010 (UTC)


SmackBot has completely blanked the Paramore article except for issue tags, twice. One of those revisions is here: Thought you should know. Katharineamy (talk) 21:22, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Thank you, there is an AWB bugfix for this I think. Rich Farmbrough, 21:32, 25 April 2010 (UTC).


Hi. I see that you have been linking floruit or fl. in a large number of articles. Please note however that the linked article Floruit says that this term should only be used when the birth and death dates are both unknown, which is more often true for persons who lived centuries ago. For persons who are still alive or who lived more recently, the birth (and death) dates are often in the article (or else can be found quickly with Google). So it would really be better to check whether the fl. is appropriate before linking it. If not you could substitute the birth (and death) dates, as I have now done for Stanley Norman Cohen in Cohen (surname). Dirac66 (talk) 22:38, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, I did kinda write that, so maybe I have to take responsibility if it misleads, it is certainly the case however that you can write fl.1453, d. 1496. (the birth or death dates are unknown) The purpose of the current exercise is just to provide the link, in case readers are not familiar with fl., however it might be worth revisiting by using "what links here" of Floruit and scanning for birth and death dates. Rich Farmbrough, 22:49, 25 April 2010 (UTC).

Blanked Thailand

This Smackbot edit: [32] ruined the good article Thailand. −Woodstone (talk) 06:57, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, was an AWB bug, now fixed. Rich Farmbrough, 07:03, 26 April 2010 (UTC).


Hi Rich. I noticed that Template:Unsigned has been changed recently. Do you think you could implement the same changes to Template:Unsignedip? Thanks, Dabomb87 (talk) 13:01, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Template:ISO 639 name zh-tw

Hi, this edit is more than fixing typo's but I have no idea if it is correct or not. Since you created the template, could you have a look? Garion96 (talk) 13:56, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Linked dates in [[File:]]


By my reckoning, there must be at least 9,000 files/images which have linked dates or date fragments. Can you run SmackBot over these to delink the occurrences? Cheers, Ohconfucius ¡digame! 09:34, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Pages with full dates only, about 5000 of them. Will do the runs for days of the week and months of the year RSN. Rich Farmbrough, 16:52, 26 April 2010 (UTC).
I'm pretty sure the "date=" parameter in {{Information}} is supposed to reduced to ISO 8601 format rather than words. I don't see a mention on the English template, but on Commons it's explicitly requested, and I think a bot changes them there, because Information on Commons translates it into the native language. You may want to have SmackBot use ISO format on at least the date= parameter (or the whole description if the bot doesn't know what's in a template and what's not) so that useful files are already prepared for moving to Commons. (I know it would be probably be a lot of extra work to distinguish Commons-usable free images from unmovable non-free images unless the bot is already working on that, so just reducing them all to ISO 8601 is easier.) --Closeapple (talk) 00:05, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
If you can demonstrate consensus for that I am more than happy to do it. Just needs a BRFA. Rich Farmbrough, 00:08, 27 April 2010 (UTC).

Re: ISO 639 codes

Hi, thanks for your advises and suggestions to me! According to the lang-code used in Chinese Wikipedia, the related templates here become more and more complex on facing to the non-Chinese users, and I found that they may not standardized enough and even would possibly make confusion on some of other fields.

As the "yue"="Cantonese" is an easy definable code, we, the most of Chinese wikipedians, believe that "zh-hk" is for the different way/style of using phrases to describe a same object in Chinese, where not based on pronunciation but the writing system and culture differences, as well as the "zh-cn", "zh-tw", and "zh-sg". So, why using "zh-hk" for "Cantonese" again? Do English users think that Guangdong/Hongkong/Macao people only can speak their mother tang? It should be related to Mandarin Chinese and not fully associated with other dialects spoken in Chinese areas.

BTW, when I reading the source of templates, the customized name for displaying seems no more supported. For example, "{{langicon|es|The Spanish Language}}" will show as (Spanish), where "The Spanish Language" after "es" is ignored.

For you to understand how we Chinese Wikipedians use it in usual, it to ensure that "zh-cn"="Simplified Chinese (PRC)", "zh-hk"="Traditional Chinese (HK/Macao)", "zh-tw"="Traditional Chinese (Taiwan)", and "zh-sg"="Simplified Chinese (SG/MYS)".

Regards. --Gzyeah (talk) 17:32, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Speech puntuation

This article's edit history has you as the only editor. What's the story here? Was it a redirect, or something? Woogee (talk) 01:49, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Thought it was something like that. It just occurred to me I should have checked the deletion log.  :) Woogee (talk) 01:53, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Hi Rich

Added links to the Silver Star Families of America and removed orphan tag. Thank you for your help my friend. Steven1969 (talk) 02:10, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

The Wikipedia Signpost: 26 April 2010

Read this Signpost in full · Single-page · Unsubscribe · EdwardsBot (talk) 13:09, 27 April 2010 (UTC)


The note the bot left on Gert Potgieter contains a misspelling. "(add listas from aticle's DEFAULTSORT)" I assume it is misspelling "article" in all such notes.Trackinfo (talk) 18:01, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, goes to show bots are only human. (Fixed.) Rich Farmbrough, 18:20, 27 April 2010 (UTC).

Adding DEFAULTSORTS that match the MediaWiki default

By the way, please consider creating a manual review list of DEFAULTSORT edits. This has a one word title so was not needed. I have a, perhaps unfounded, concern that Quantum gravity may get a DEFAULTSORT of Gravity, quantum, without human review, or that the bot makes many unnecessary edits.

--Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 12:46, 27 April 2010 (UTC)


Was (and is) a redirect to Dardenelles and had WPBio on it's talk page. Presumably some older version had biography of Lord Byron on it. Therin lies the rub, to follow or not to follow redirects? In this case SmackBot followed the redirect, and I too the WPBIO off the talk page. Rich Farmbrough, 00:09, 28 April 2010 (UTC).

Hellespont is ok because you fixed it yourself (thanks!) WPBio was added to Talk:Dardanelles by YoBot and ListasBot. If SmackBot followed ListasBot then I guess the problem lies there.

However, in the cases of Rockers Revenge [33] Ren Ng [34] and Steinunn Refsdóttir [35], it seems ListasBot did the right thing, but SmackBot still guessed incorrectly at a DEFAULTSORT. I wonder if this affected other articles in yesterday's run.

--Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 04:47, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

Ren Ng

I added Ren as a Chinese surname, which may be wrong, I need to check. I will add Ng as a surname at some point, which can overrule the Chinese. Icelandic and Viking names will need treating differently, there are heavy hints for the former (the Iclandic name template for example). But I removed a very large number of items from the "articles without listas" category yesterday, and it is such a complex field I am relatively pleased with the outcome so far. Although there are still many more I can do, it is quite tedious, even bot assisted so I will likely not attack the problem again for a few days. Rich Farmbrough, 04:54, 28 April 2010 (UTC).

Good point. There remains some concern in my mind that when the bot goes beyond English-speaking countries, it may be making a noticeable proportion of errors that may be hard to spot and fix. I would guess that more than 5% errors would be too high, but my Mandarin Chinese is too poor to check, and I know none of the Norse languages. (My username looks Icelandic but is actually pinched from Old English.)

Anyway, I don't want to drag you into a new debate over things that I have no doubt you discussed elsewhere. Could you post a link to the relevant bot approval please?

--Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 05:16, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

There was little discussion, you will find more on the talk page of the listas category. Basically what I did was thin the list by insisting that the names be of the form Fred A. B. Bloggs, where Fred was a popular western first name, on this list I allowed AWB to have its way. Then I build another list of articles which should have an in-order DEFAULTSORT , DJ Bloggs, Blah blah (band), Xyz baronets, Milo XX and so forth. The sticking point has been "Arabic" names since these can have up to five parts, and we should in theory sort on the last, but we don't always have that bit, so they tend to be used unsorted, but no-one has bitten the bullet an actually given any of them DEFAUTLSORTS of listas (and some of the claimed Arabic names are actually Pashtun , but that's another story.) As a result since so many begin with "ab" the listas category has stayed pretty blocked. Rich Farmbrough, 05:56, 28 April 2010 (UTC).

  1. My concern is not the listas category, which is administrative and is worth as much bot muscle as you can offer, per Category_talk:Biography_articles_without_listas_parameter#A_little_progress
  2. SmackBot's work on DEFAULTSORT seems troublesome. The approval says "where there is an unambiguous sort key given to existing categories", and I am not sure that a category of all Chinese people (for example) is unambiguous (though I imagine easier than Arabic, especially where Persians, Turks, and Americans, for example, have Arabic names).
  3. Please don't add in-order DEFAULTSORTs.
--Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 08:06, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for cleaning up List_of_English_Writers. Makes all the difference. Bmcln1 (talk) 12:05, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

Proper use of CfD tag

When tagging a category for deletion, please use {{subst:cfd}}, in stead of copying {{cfd full}}. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 13:56, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

Brooklyn College APD

How can I link this to the Alpha Phi Delta National Fraternity Page?

This is just one of the chapters.

Burg (talk) 15:45, 28 April 2010 (UTC)


Watch out what you are doing with AWB - you added an unneeded self-referencing wikilink in the Floruit article. :) LadyofShalott 16:00, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks! Rich Farmbrough, 16:30, 28 April 2010 (UTC).

mos collision

Hi, You recently edited Orca (disambiguation) to add a link to floruit. I think that is not a good idea. I think the correct MOS here is MOS:DAB which reads, "Each bulleted entry should have exactly one navigable (blue) link to efficiently guide users to the most relevant article for each use of the ambiguous term. Do not wikilink any other words in the line." I think the point is that a dab page is designed to get a reader to the page that they really wanted to get to in the first place, it is not like a usual article where wikilinks are used for arborization. 018 (talk) 01:45, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

I am familiar with MOSDAB, and I agree that in the case of Orca loosing the link to fl does not cost much (although I can't seriously think someone would click fl. instead of "Quintus Valerius Orca", nor yet find themselves overwhelmed by the multiplicity of links). However on other dab pages not knowing the meaning of fl. could easily lead to the wrong ramification. Rich Farmbrough, 01:53, 29 April 2010 (UTC).
I think there is a lot to be said with keeping the blue specific to the word in question on a DAB page. When I come to a DAB page lain out like this, it is so much easier to read and find what I'm looking for. You also appear to have used in inappropriate pipe on the same page. I undid it. I don't see any exception for states. 018 (talk) 02:02, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

not knowing the meaning of fl. could easily lead to the wrong ramification. I think in those ambiguous cases, if we expand the abbreviation in English, or explain it, it would work better than a blue link. Not everyone is accurate with a mouse, and an extra blue link could be seriously annoying to someone using keyboard navigation or a screen reader. Just my 2 drachma. --Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 06:26, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

I also just have a hard time imaging looking for someone born centuries ago, not knowing what fl. means and getting confused by it. I would say that in the case of Constantine_I_(disambiguation), it is not necessary to link that fl.. In the case of John_Hart_(disambiguation), I can see the argument, but I wonder if the fl. dates are useful at all or if naming the single thing James L. Hart did would be more useful. 018 (talk) 14:29, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

Disruptive editor

Hi there. Do you have time to please look into this issue? There's a disruptive editor who goes against community consensus, and who apparently wants to engage me in an edit war. Thank you. Amsaim (talk) 09:00, 29 April 2010 (UTC)


SmackBot added tags to a page that has the {{nobots}} tag. I am not sure if this is a problem but it caused the maintenance tags to be transcluded onto Preamble to the United States Constitution. I have removed the maintenance tags. ~~ GB fan ~~ talk 11:34, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

Fixed, largely. {{Tl|nobots}] was never meant as a long term hack in article space, but we never really got to grips with transcluding content wiki-wide. Rich Farmbrough, 16:10, 29 April 2010 (UTC).

References section on disambig page

A little concerned about SmackBot adding a Refs section to a disambiguation page -- shouldn't he know not to do that? Disambiguation pages should never have references. Propaniac (talk) 16:26, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

It picked up thisversion of the page which was badly broken (not MoS broken), so it was a timing problem more than anything. But it is a useful point to consider. Rich Farmbrough, 16:30, 29 April 2010 (UTC).

Minor SmackBot Error

In this edit, the line "|orphan =April {2010" was added instead of "|orphan =April 2010". I didn't feel like it was important enough to stop the bot though. :) Sorafune +1 00:10, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

Another example: [36] John of Reading (talk) 06:17, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

Already fixed, along with a small bunch of others. Thanks. Rich Farmbrough, 06:18, 30 April 2010 (UTC).

Pointless style changes

Hi, why are you making pointless whitespace changes like this with your AWB? Every once in a while I see people like you automatically converting articles to one style, then someone else comes along and converts them back to their preferred style. Nothing is improved, you only waste time of people who monitor their watchlist because it takes longer to figure out what content was changed. -- intgr [talk] 01:39, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

  • I believe the real edit was the removal of the category, as indicated in the edit summary, which serves no encyclopaedic function. The whitespace/CR removals were merely incidental. Ohconfucius ¡digame! 01:48, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
    • Yes edit summaries are cool, I should use them more. Rich Farmbrough, 01:53, 1 May 2010 (UTC).
I understand that the reason for the edit was this category. But then why do you need to do several unrelated and unhelpful edits, to no benefit, based on your subjective whitespace preferences? -- intgr [talk] 02:08, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
Well they wouldn't justify a separate edit. Of article headers, over 80% use that style,[citation needed] so it is not purely subjective. But it's not a big deal either. Rich Farmbrough, 02:25, 1 May 2010 (UTC).
If it's not a big deal, then don't touch it. Even if that 80% figure were true -- maybe because your automated edits have touched 80% of Wikipedia -- there is no consensus. In fact, various tools like the article wizard and "new section" on talk pages create sections with spaces. And many people prefer that style.
  1. Please point me to a consensus
  2. Please explain why the no-spaces style is preferable?
  3. Back up your figures -- intgr [talk] 11:14, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

High school coordinates

Dear Mr. Farmbrough,

I notice that you gave the coordinates here with your bot for this high school in BC, Canada. I have been adding some high res. photos to some schools in Surrey BC, Canada (in Metro Vancouver) and it would be nice, if you (or your bot) had some time, to add coordinates to other high school articles below which I provided photos for....just to give a sense of completion to them. Its a slightly long list below. So, please take your time--if you can--adding coordinates in your free time:

I hope you can help. PS: I am a trusted user on Commons but mastering metadata coordinates is beyond my scope. Regards from Canada, --Leoboudv (talk) 06:31, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

This was added a long time ago here. Having said that I can look at my database.Rich Farmbrough, 06:47, 1 May 2010 (UTC).


If you're going to continue running the AWB task for a long period of time, you might wanna fix the spelling of "Imperial" that you have. :-) I wasn't going to mention it, but it seems you have a long list. Killiondude (talk) 07:31, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, sorted. Rich Farmbrough, 07:33, 1 May 2010 (UTC).

Unit pref

Your plan sounds like a good one, but it would be great if we could use a term other than Imperial, since Imperial units are not square miles. The areadisp subtemplate has a list of alternatives. Or if there is an even better label not included here, we could always use that and convert all transclusions to that term using a bot. This could be a good idea, since we could then strip out all the other choices from the switch statement. Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 15:13, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

Removing auto-categorization at Template:Infobox law enforcement agency

See reply on my talk page. Vegaswikian (talk) 16:23, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

Template:Quick commune19

Are you still using this, or should it be deleted? Thanks! Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 03:49, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

And Template:Blank alba infobox? Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 03:57, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks! Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 15:50, 3 May 2010 (UTC)


I think it would be useful if you could do similar changes to Template:Portal box as you did at Template:Portal. Thanks -- WOSlinker (talk) 08:42, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

A12 Authentication

Hi Rick and all,    While going through this A12 page, i thought of posting a question related to this. In my view A12 authentication is not required at all. What is requires is return of MN-ID from AAA. Having said that i'd say AAA need not require to check for password value. AAA need to play a role of Authorizer only. AAA should get IMSI/ESN from request and return corrosponding MN-ID into RADIUS Callback-ID attribute.    Please throw a proper light on same. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sumit.pandya (talkcontribs) 09:05, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Well the IMSI is public knowledge. Having said that I have no idea how these things work. You could try the author of the A12 Authentication article. Rich Farmbrough, 09:16, 3 May 2010 (UTC).

Discrete mathematics

I haven't quite understood some of your edits to Discrete mathematics: you appear to have inserted some portal test code, which then interfered with your attempt to state the portal name directly. I've changed the portal reference to what I think you intended (diff). -- Radagast3 (talk) 09:25, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Well the end result is good, the first was to check default behaviour with no icon, I have since added an icon for Discrete mathematics, so that plus your edit, it's all good. Thanks. Rich Farmbrough, 15:34, 3 May 2010 (UTC).

Speedy deletion of Template:Portal/Images/paleontology

A tag has been placed on Template:Portal/Images/paleontology requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section T3 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a deprecated or orphaned template. After seven days, if it is still unused and the speedy deletion tag has not been removed, the template will be deleted.

If the template is intended to be substituted, please feel free to remove the speedy deletion tag and please consider putting a note on the template's page indicating that it is substituted so as to avoid any future mistakes (<noinclude>{{transclusionless}}</noinclude>).

Thanks. Svick (talk) 09:30, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of Template:Portal/Images/Paleontology

A tag has been placed on Template:Portal/Images/Paleontology requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section T3 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a deprecated or orphaned template. After seven days, if it is still unused and the speedy deletion tag has not been removed, the template will be deleted.

If the template is intended to be substituted, please feel free to remove the speedy deletion tag and please consider putting a note on the template's page indicating that it is substituted so as to avoid any future mistakes (<noinclude>{{transclusionless}}</noinclude>).

Thanks. Svick (talk) 09:30, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

AWB edits breaking WebCite links

Hello. I notice your edits titled "delinking ISO style dates using AWB" have been breaking all WebCite-archived sources. For instance, this edit replaced

with August 2007&url=

Please check your logs to repair all that damage, and more importantly update your script. Thanks. (talk) 11:37, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

This was nearly half a year ago. I can more usefully find all articles with invalid web-cites and fix them. Rich Farmbrough, 11:40, 3 May 2010 (UTC).

Aunt Dahlia and Gussie seem to be it. Rich Farmbrough, 13:19, 3 May 2010 (UTC).

Top Gun Talwar

What's up with Top Gun Talwar?

YesY Answered on user's talk page. 13:17, 3 May 2010 (UTC)~

Balko, Oklahoma

I am looking for information about Balko, OK. Why is it named Balko? Who was the first to settle there? Etc... Wbalko (talk) 14:51, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

You might want to ask at Wikipedia:WikiProject Oklahoma. Rich Farmbrough, 15:12, 3 May 2010 (UTC).

Rearranging references

You need to stop rearranging references. At your present edit rate, it is not possible that you are actually reading the text of the references and deciding which one is most relevant. Moreover, the AWB "rules of use" (see WP:AWB) are clear that one should not make edits merely to change the capitalization of templates. They also say that one should not do anything controversial with AWB - and rearranging references without reading them is certainly controversial. So edits such as [37] are inappropriate. — Carl (CBM · talk) 13:11, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

That isn't true; I have seen other users bring it up, in other places. However, now that I have informed you, recommencing this series of edits would be appropriate. If you want to get a guideline that footnotes must be in numerical order, use WT:CITE. Lacking that, you need to follow the advice in WP:CITEHOW, which says to keep whatever style is established in each article. — Carl (CBM · talk) 13:15, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
Here [38] is a separate complaint about the rearranging. — Carl (CBM · talk) 13:17, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
It's not a complain it's a query and the interlocutor says "there was nothing untoward in the reference re-ordering;". Rich Farmbrough, 13:21, 3 May 2010 (UTC).
It's a complaint. In any case, this is my notice: if you want to run a bot task to put all footnotes in numerical order, then get permission for it first. Otherwise, you should not be running a single-purpose task to rearrange them until you get such approval. It is extremely unlikely to run into so many pages with this problem unless you go out of your way to find them. Getting bot approval will first require actually getting a guideline that says the references need to be in numerical order; the present guideline says instead that you should leave the established style in each article. — Carl (CBM · talk) 13:25, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Regarding [39], the issue here is only for footnotes that are back-to-back, and the version you cited did not have any footnotes back to back, so it had nothing to say about them. The first edit to add named references put the footnotes out of order, so the "established style" for that article is that back-to-back footnotes do not need to be in numerical order. — Carl (CBM · talk) 13:37, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

And this points out the essence of the problem: if you do not know about the topic of the article, and you have not read the references being given (not the citations, but the actual references), then you have no way to tell which order is better. In this case, the next edit [40] was not just a drive-by: the editor added a lot of information and apparently was familiar with the topic. That's the sort of person who should decide which reference is most important. In some cases, it may be better to rearrange them, but it requires careful article-by-article work, and cannot be done automatically. — Carl (CBM · talk) 13:42, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

And this leads to a deeper problem: even if an article had in-order footnotes at some revision, the article could also be in the "most-important first" style. Without actually looking at the references of the article, there is no way to tell. — Carl (CBM · talk) 13:48, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

But the truth of the matter is that the references have just got out of order. While I know you love policing minor edits and even better rolling them back, in the end these improvements will happen one way or another. In March there were over 15,000 articles with out of order references, a good 3,000 of those have been fixed, not by me. Many more may have been created. Similarly http style markup will continue to be replaced with wiki-markup, and obscure template names like otheruses4 will be replaced with about. Your rollbacks just waste your time and everyone else's, if you want to vandal-fight get Huggle and find some vandals, otherwise there's plenty of work to be done actually making stuff better rather than getting in the way of the people who are trying to do that. I already built in a versioning system, and hacked C sharp to stop changing , no: to stop correcting - reference order to keep you happy. And in the meanwhile I estimate over 100,000 minor fixes were lost - because you perceive that someone might have done, what they actually have never claimed to have done, on some article somewhere that might one day have its references re-arranged. I say, when it is actually a problem, then we deal with it. Why borrow trouble? Thousands of edits have lead to maybe three queries - and CBM. Rich Farmbrough, 14:24, 3 May 2010 (UTC).
The reason I feel strongly about the referencing rearranging is because it isn't a minor fix: the order of references is a key choice when writing, and should not be changed lightly. So the AWB changes don't make stuff better; instead, they destroy the effort of editors who went out of their way to arrange the references carefully.
Evidence rather than supposition points to it notbeing a choice. That is what I keep telling you. Not one person has said "my carefully ordered references were put out of order and now the article is broken".
The problem is that SmackBot didn't stop changing the reference order. I check the bot's contribs from time to time, and just this weekend SmackBot was still rearranging references, which is why I blocked it. It had two other errors that I also posted to the bot's page. You didn't reply there, but today you were manually rearranging references en masse. It's far from best practice to respond to a problem with a bot by making the bad edits yourself while the bot is blocked. I do not think it is likely that you would get a bot approval to rearrange references, and such things should not be done without approval once someone has objected.
Yes because it was doing a different task form a different computer, without the special hacked up CBM version of AWB. And mostly to articles with zero references, let alone 2 in a row.
The most productive thing here would be for us to figure out how to fix SmackBot once and for all, and then simply leave reference order to the editors of each article. I have been in touch with Magioladitis, and he is thinking of adding an option to AWB to be able to disable its controversial changes while keeping the other general fixes. — Carl (CBM · talk) 14:44, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
As far as that goes Mag should look at my proposal on the matter. It is hard work to set up, but it would resolve the gen fixes disputes ongoing. Rich Farmbrough, 15:39, 3 May 2010 (UTC).

It's also inappropriate to run bot tasks under your own account while the bot is blocked (look at the history of [41]). — Carl (CBM · talk) 17:39, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

It happens I am prepared to do it manually, to protect the wiki from the consequences of other's foolish actions. You will notice the log was moved from being a bot log to a mere log of runs last time you engaged in this blocking activity. The runs are also being done on the hacked version of AWB, which means that and disordered references are staying disordered, therefore I am not working the claimed intention of your block, which is to keep the references out-of-order, despite no scrap of evidence supporting this as intended in even tiny minority of articles, let alone one which has sufficient currency to allow a significant number of other articles to be disfigured. Rich Farmbrough, 01:31, 4 May 2010 (UTC).
The issue is that when a bot is blocked because it is broken, it's not appropriate to run the task under your main account regardless whether you think the task is desirable. This is particularly true here, because you have had great difficulty keeping the bot under control. — Carl (CBM · talk) 02:11, 4 May 2010 (UTC)


In this edit [42] you changed "references" to "reflist". As WP:FOOT says, "The choice between {{Reflist}} and <references /> is a matter of style; Wikipedia does not have a general rule." As you are aware, WP:CITEHOW says not to change from one style to another at random. — Carl (CBM · talk) 02:11, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

I'm going to assume you have fixed the problem with your bot, and so I will not contest your unblocking of it, although I find it quite inappropriate to do so without contacting me. The next time that I need to block the bot, I'll take the matter to ANI as well. There is no reason that the same coding error should continue to (re)occur for months. — Carl (CBM · talk) 11:29, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

As I point out in my block message, regardless whether you think it has good effects, there is no bot authorization to rearrange references. As I said, if I see this problem again, I will block the bot and take the matter to ANI. Unblocking your own bot in order to avoid fixing would be an abuse of your administrator abilities. However, I assume that in this case you have fixed the problem before unblocking the bot. — Carl (CBM · talk) 11:59, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

The Wikipedia Signpost: 3 May 2010

Read this Signpost in full · Single-page · Unsubscribe · EdwardsBot (talk) 15:28, 4 May 2010 (UTC)


Hi Rich,
do you have any plans on how Smackbot should handle {{expand}} and {{multiple issues|expand=...}}, regarding the TFD? It could probably remove the tag if an article is marked as a stub, as suggested.
Just asking since I was asked to remove it from {{multiple issues}}.
Cheers, Amalthea, watching your page. 12:37, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

I can't believe that the tfD passed. Rich Farmbrough, 12:39, 4 May 2010 (UTC).
Heh, pretty much what I said, but I didn't follow the TfD. Amalthea 14:05, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
No I have picked myself up of the floor, SmackBot already does remove it from stubs. Rich Farmbrough, 12:54, 4 May 2010 (UTC).
 :) Amalthea 14:05, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
There are on;y 20,000 uses of Expand, only 10% on stubs. WP:DRV? Rich Farmbrough, 23:57, 4 May 2010 (UTC).


How are you doing? You seem not yet reply me about this question for some weeks already.--Gzyeah (talk) 03:57, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Re:Ganeshbot stubs

Hello Rich,

Yes, some of the older stubs may have missing taxonomic cats. It is on my to do list to work on. Recently I have been making sure that the family categories do exist. I also make sure the articles do not link to disambiguation pages.

I think you are referring to the space in between <br and />. I will change it. Thanks for the tip. Ganeshk (talk) 10:55, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

SmackBot rearranging stub tags

Hi, though SmackBot is one of the best bots (and me saying that, it's no mean compliment ;-) ), I find it a bit irritating that it shuffles categories to above the stub tags.

Because I have found it makes editing easier when one puts the stub tag at the end of the "actual" article, offset with 2 empty lines (so that it will be a bit offset in the article as displayed - I think it's ugly when the stub note creeps up so closely on the article itself). And below the stub tag, categories, interwiki, defaultsort... - all the automatic tags that do not belong to the article proper. IONO how other users do it, but I think it has been the usual way as long as I can remember. It might also mess with footer infoboxes - these drop-down things -, but I have not checked (the infoboxes must not be offset, they will only look good when separated by one empty line from the main article).

IONO if this can be fixed, but I think it should, because it makes editing easier to have a clearly offset bunch of code where all these tags go. Now, one gets categories directly below the article proper, then a break, then the stub tag and the interwiki tags. Doesn't affect the output, but looks strange in the code - I always mentally "stumble" over it. Cheers, Dysmorodrepanis (talk) 11:09, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Heya... Saw your note on D's talk page. How about splitting the difference... literally. Move only the "-stub" templates below the categories. In theory, those templates will eventually get removed anyway. Just a suggestion. (And I'm a SmackBot fan, too! *grins*) - UtherSRG (talk) 11:51, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

That's what it does. Rich Farmbrough, 12:59, 5 May 2010 (UTC).

SmackBot & Template:IndigenousAustralia-stub

I think SmackBot is at least occasionally adding WPBIO templates incorrectly because the article has the above stub template eg [43] & [44]? Or that's what seems to be common to those 2, otherwise I can't work work out why it would be doing this. Misarxist (talk) 11:12, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Yes there's a problem with the stub category tree (these are sub-cats of "people stubs"). Back to the drawing board a bit on that one. Rich Farmbrough, 13:01, 5 May 2010 (UTC).

I imagine...

...that old habits die hard, but please see WP:NEWSECTION. Thanks! –xenotalk 17:00, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Hehe, I thought of you when I saw the edit, xeno. :)
Cheers, Amalthea 17:11, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
'Twas what prompted this note! ;> –xenotalk 17:13, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
'Tis what I thought. Amalthea 18:18, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Can be javascipted? Anyone? Rich Farmbrough, 23:55, 4 May 2010 (UTC).


Nice! You should copy/move it into a separate js so that xeno can advertise the script from now on. :) Cheers, Amalthea 08:55, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
Anyone who actually knows javascript can improve it massively in a few moments. Rich Farmbrough, 08:58, 6 May 2010 (UTC).
That reminds me, MediaWiki code is modifying the section headers a little when it creates the auto summary: it will remove all "[[:", "[[", and "]]" for one. Amalthea 09:10, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

How did you add 5,000 WPBography that fast?

I am impressed. How did you generate this list? did you just run in subcategories of ...? Cheers, Magioladitis (talk) 15:15, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Yes see above. And pirates. Rich Farmbrough, 16:59, 5 May 2010 (UTC).
Better turn genfixes on. Genfixes for talk pages are 100% safe and we need to add missing headers. -- Magioladitis (talk) 23:44, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Less than perfect edit

Just FYI, your edit added a really odd DEFAULTSORT, presumably an assistance script that choked on the malformatted existing category, or something. No biggie. Studerby (talk) 20:13, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Yes, you saw presumably that the was the apparent sort order of the only "category" there? maybe worth looking for more "non categories" like that, non-existant cats are already on my mind. Thanks for letting me know. Rich Farmbrough, 20:16, 5 May 2010 (UTC).

Thank you

Thank you, for your portal updates. -- Cirt (talk) 01:08, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

You are welcome! Rich Farmbrough, 01:09, 6 May 2010 (UTC).


Not sure if your a bot or a real person! But if this is a bot pls be aware that it replacing portal links with there templates (this is great), however its doing it to the actual temples aswell, thus rendering the whole process useless. Pls see examples --> [45], [46] and [47] this are a few that i have seen. not sure if the bot has done this all over....just FYI i have fixed the ones i have seen...Moxy (talk) 01:20, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

YesY Answered on user's talk page. Rich Farmbrough, 02:50, 6 May 2010 (UTC).


I noticed on my watchlist that you removed the break= parameter from a portal call inside Template:maths rating. Unless you can point me to a discussion where it was agreed to remove break= from all portal template calls, you should not be removing it. Template:portal supports it; I checked. Removing the break parameter from portal templates would break other templates that depend on them, like our maths rating template would if it didn't call template:portal directly. — Carl (CBM · talk) 02:34, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

For the record, I don't care about the hardcoded images one bit, provided that the edits to remove them preserve the other existing parameters. — Carl (CBM · talk) 02:39, 6 May 2010 (UTC)


Hi - just wondering - are you aware that your span tag trick is also making your page name show as "Rrich Farmbrough" (at least I believe that's the cause)?  7  02:37, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Yes, that's about the best I can do with the trick. Rich Farmbrough, 02:39, 6 May 2010 (UTC).


SmackBot recently added a WPBio banner template to Talk:BabaKiueria, although BabaKiueria is a film, not a person. Do you know what caused the misclassification? —Paul A (talk) 02:43, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Yes, it's the stub category "Category:Indigenous peoples of Australia" stubs which is (wrongly) a sub category of "Australian people stubs" Rich Farmbrough, 02:47, 6 May 2010 (UTC).
(I will go through and check al the cat later on.) Rich Farmbrough, 02:48, 6 May 2010 (UTC).

Portal templates

I did not see any functional advantage to your edits to Template:Alabama portal, Template:Colorado portal, Template:Connecticut portal, Template:Florida portal, and Template:Nevada portal, so I reverted your edits. These templates were sized to have a uniform height, and they can be resized and left justified. Please see Wikipedia:List of U.S. state portals. Please let me know if these reversions cause you any grief, or if you have any other suggestions. Yours aye, Buaidh (talk) 03:30, 6 May 2010 (UTC)


Greetings Rich Farmbrough - Just letting you know that I've courtesy blanked & db-bio tagged Rhiannon Casey Dewar!. I've just seen at its History that you editted there recently. Cheers! --Technopat (talk) 10:45, 6 May 2010 (UTC)


Hi there - I have discovered i cannot load pictures and logo's to the pages. How would i go about doing this or do i need to ask somebody such as yourself to do it for me.

Thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Laurenfindley (talkcontribs) 13:45, 6 May 2010 (UTC)


What do you know about Father's Rights???? I'm one of the guys who invented it in 1993 with my first book: Surviving the Feminization of America. Asa Baber was my mentor. Jeff Leving tried to get me to write HIS book. I worked in D.C. with Stu Miller and the American Fathers coalition and published articles on fathers from Penthouse to the San Francisco Chronicle. I don't even know who Bettina Arendt is!!!!

And I don't know who you are.

Leave my stuff alone. Leave ALL my stuff alone or I am going to make sure whoever the hell runs wikipedia knows about you. Go find someone else to bother.

Rich Zubaty —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 06:07, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Smackbot question - edit to Nathanael Boehm

I am having trouble understanding what happened on this SmackBot edit: [48]. It looks like the bot removed references. Thanks! Jminthorne (talk) 07:39, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

This is broken, probably because User:RHaworth moved the page, deleting several revisions of the target, presumably excluding this one. Look at the diff before and after SmackBot's edit [49]. SB simply does not "prod" articles (although most new people articles with a lower case surname are eminently proddable), and only adds a very few tags, excluding COI and Notability. Rich Farmbrough, 07:51, 7 May 2010 (UTC).

svg version of File:UEFAEuropaLeague.png

Hi, you requested an svg version of File:UEFAEuropaLeague.png. See de:Datei:UEFA_Europa_League.svg. Maybe you want to upload it here, too. Cheers --Saibo (Δ)

Archive please. Rich Farmbrough, 23:57, 9 May 2010 (UTC).

Singeing the king of Spain's beard

Rich, this is a page Smackbot visited in March this year. I have reverted to the original page layout and translated the original article as was requested. I have left one paragraph for deletion with reasons on the discussion page and I am now about to add the references. I have started a discussion on whether this a world view article in the discussion page. Let me know if there is further to be done!! Thanks Jkslouth (talk) 15:46, 7 May 2010 (UTC)jkslouth

This looks good. SmackBot by the way merely dates clean-up tags (and does a little cleanup) - it doesn't place them. Rich Farmbrough, 00:12, 10 May 2010 (UTC).

SmackBot erroneously added WPBiography

SmackBot added WPBiography to an article about a company. In trying to discover why this happened, the only clue I found in the article is that it contains {{UK-architect-stub}}. That stub, unfortunately, applies to either an architect or a firm of architects. MANdARAX  XAЯAbИAM 21:29, 7 May 2010 (UTC)


I noticed that you attempted to get the deletion of Template:Expand reviewed by putting a "deletion opposed" template. Although that edit was reverted, I have now taken the matter to deletion review. Just letting you know. Best wishes. Immunize (talk) 18:28, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. Rich Farmbrough, 22:15, 9 May 2010 (UTC).

Incorrect change of Template:Main with AWB

Hi, in this edit to Artificial intelligence, you changed {{Main|Outline of artificial intelligence}} to {{Main}}, which doesn't work. AWB alone doesn't do that for me, so I think you have an error in one of your custom rules. Could you fix it? Thanks. Svick (talk) 15:36, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Fixed Thanks. Rich Farmbrough, 22:16, 9 May 2010 (UTC).

please leave "| break=yes"

You may have noticed my placing portalboxs on many many catagoies. I use the "|break=yes" on purpose there and elsewhere (like below). As you remove all the obsolete paramitors, would you leave that one in, since it is unrelated to you main purpose. I can also give you a list of most of the pages that are ready changed unnessarly, if you are willing to put them back in. Thanks. şṗøʀĸɕäɾłäů∂ɛ:τᴀʟĸ 20:49, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
YesY Answered on user's talk page. Rich Farmbrough, 13:09, 11 May 2010 (UTC).

The Wikipedia Signpost: 10 May 2010

Read this Signpost in full · Single-page · Unsubscribe · EdwardsBot (talk) 13:10, 11 May 2010 (UTC)


Hello Rich Farmbrough, I really like what you have done with the portals, such as what you did to the Augusto Rodriguez article here: [50], however I think that you should know (in case you didn'y already know) that User:CBM is undoing your portal work, example:[51]. Just thought that you should know in case you would like to discuss the issue with him/her. Take care. Tony the Marine (talk) 16:09, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Thank you Tony. Rich Farmbrough, 05:21, 12 May 2010 (UTC).

SmackBot dating {{adoptoffer}}

I have just added a date requirement to {{adoptoffer}} and there is no obvious way to persuade users to adapt to the changes quickly. Every time the template is added to a page - which will add that page to Category:Undated adoption offers - it needs the text |month={{subt:CURRENTMONTHNAME}} {{subst:CURRENTYEAR}} inserted before the final }}. At Bot requests they recommended SmackBot - do you mind helping me out? strdst_grl (call me Stardust) 12:26, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Not a problem. Rich Farmbrough, 13:32, 12 May 2010 (UTC).
Thanks! strdst_grl (call me Stardust) 15:40, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Portal changes

Could you point out the bot request to change the syntax of the portal template? If there is not one, you should stop changing them immediately. I do not believe a massive overhaul of a widely-used template should be carried out without any public notice. — Carl (CBM · talk) 23:53, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

I am sure that you will find plenty to oppose and revert. Rich Farmbrough, 23:55, 9 May 2010 (UTC).
I am sure you are aware that large sets of edits require bot approval even if you plan to use AWB. In this case, have you announced the changes on a village pump or otherwise advertised them? — Carl (CBM · talk) 23:59, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

I noticed this because of this edit on my watchlist, which seems to have removed several see also links without explanation. A separate benefit of bot requests is that they lead to code testing. — Carl (CBM · talk) 00:02, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

I have started a section on ANI here. Unless someone else has a strong reason not to, I plan to revert the portal changes as an unapproved bot job in a couple hours. — Carl (CBM · talk) 00:23, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

I have a very strong reason not to. You would be reverting for no good reason. As you have often done in the past. I have hinted to you that this is not a good idea. If something is broken by all means revert but reverting that IP who changed "otheruses4" to "about" simply because you can is just foolishness. Rich Farmbrough, 00:36, 10 May 2010 (UTC).
It's also not a good idea to run bot tasks without seeking approval for them. I think you've been told that in the past, too. I know you've been here a long time and done lots of good work, but you're still subject to these little processes we have, I think. Equazcion (talk) 00:40, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
Seems CBM is reverting at 4 edits per second - fantastic making pages worse at that rate. I wish he would get Huggle and spend some time with that instead. Rich Farmbrough, 09:24, 10 May 2010 (UTC).
Your evasiveness regarding your own edits detracts greatly from any sympathy I might have otherwise had for your criticism of their being reverted. Equazcion (talk) 09:39, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

Coming to this late, I've just noticed you made major changes to Template:Portal without any discussion beforehand. I would like to ask you not to do this in future. There may be merits in this system, but other editors should be given the change to evaluate them. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 07:03, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Use of Citation needed in a template

I am thinking about using the Citation needed template in Infobox weather, in an #if statement, to display when the source parameter isn't used. But dating it using the #time function would cause them all to have the current date, which is incorrect, it should be dated when the weather infobox got added to the article. I would have to keep the date parameter empty, my concern is that when the bot is alerted to an article using Citation needed without a date, but then can't find the Citation needed template, what will happen? 117Avenue (talk) 06:24, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

We have got around this before by simply adding a "date" parameter to infoboxes. SmackBot then treats the infobox as a cleanup template. Only problems are: Smackbot isn't very good at multiline templates, or nested templates. An alternative would be to simply put a "{cn}" in the footnotes field by default (i.e. in the cut and paste copy) but this is not fully satisfactory either. Rich Farmbrough, 08:09, 12 May 2010 (UTC).
A date parameter won't work because I am trying to tag articles using unsourced weather data, if the user hasn't input the source parameter, he's not going to input a date. 117Avenue (talk) 04:33, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Motto of the Day

Nuvola apps kedit.png

Hi there, Rich Farmbrough! Thought you might be interested in Motto of the Day, a collaborative (and totally voluntary) effort by a group of Wikipedians to create original, inspirational mottos. Have a good motto idea? Share it here, comment on some of the mottos there or just pass this message onto your friends.

MOTD Needs Your Help!

Delivered By –pjoef (talkcontribs) 12:20, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

IndiaStudyChannel page


I have fixed the links problem of the IndiaStudyChannel page. More than 3 links are now pointing to it. Kindly remove the orphan tag from it.

Gyandeep Kaushal (talk) 15:55, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Donaldson Report

AfD was closed as "no consensus", but I think obviously your suggestion was the most appropriate. I am going to make a Dab page for "Donaldson Report" to differentiate between the various reports referred to as such. Regarding the article I nominated (re: TWA 800), what can I do now? Is there another method (Prod?), or should I just make the Dab page, work on the TWA Flight 800 alternative theories for a while, then renominate the page at some later date? LoveUxoxo (talk) 01:36, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

If TWA Flight 800 alternative theories are notable they should stay. If the information on the page is significant and either verifiable or, if contentious and about a living person, verified, then it should stay. Rich Farmbrough, 07:50, 14 May 2010 (UTC).

Template:Arcadia (band)

Rich, there's a serious problem here! I tried adding a video album to this template, which requires the "dot" that separates titles, anyway, as I done this, WP wouldn't accept this and one of those block notes appeared, saying something like "okay" or "cancel". Please fix and correct this "internal" problem, so I can resume editing! Thanks. Best, --Discographer (talk) 21:16, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Major flaw with New Features

Rich, I've had to turn off New Features and go back to Take Me Back because it does not enable anyone to edit a template with inserting the wiki "dot" without disruption, quickly ending the pending edit. Try it yourself, you will find I'm correct. Best, --Discographer (talk) 21:50, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

 · The Videos Lets try ... Rich Farmbrough, 07:42, 14 May 2010 (UTC).
 · The Videos · The Videos · The Videos Seems OK to me... but I have it turned off too most of the time. Rich Farmbrough, 07:43, 14 May 2010 (UTC).
I've got it now, (by switching back to New Features, that is; - one of the developers must have fixed it since I contacted them!) but my computer however pops a box up {"OK" / "Cancel") when I click on the insert toolbar table where the dot and other symbols are displaced while I'm in edit-mode form making it where I have to click on "OK" (or "Cancel"), in order for the edit to proceed. I suppose it's a minor issue, though it could still use some fixing up! Best, --Discographer (talk) 08:36, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
OK I was cut and pasting, but I'm trying that now ••••••••∘, still nothing - and I'm not privileged with any access to the workigs other than the usual admin stuff. Rich Farmbrough, 08:50, 14 May 2010 (UTC).

Template:catmain, etc.

Hi-just wanted you to know that whatever you did to change {{catmain}} is not working correctly. See the header at: Category:Recipients of the Order of Ushakov, it's just showing the soft redirect. --Funandtrvl (talk) 19:34, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

BAGBot: Your bot request SmackBot XXIV

Someone has marked Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/SmackBot XXIV as needing your input. Please visit that page to reply to the requests. Thanks! AnomieBOT 09:58, 15 May 2010 (UTC) To opt out of these notifications, place {{bots|optout=operatorassistanceneeded}} anywhere on this page.

Problem with edits from a while back - NL infobox import

See [52].. See the caption display? |250px|none|alt=|Location of Absdale]] - Please investigate. –xenotalk 22:12, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

IPA search

Hi Rich,

I have s.t. I wonder if you can help me with. I've been trying to clean up the IPA on WP, linking to the proper language keys and standardizing our transcriptions. However, there are a good number of articles that use the IPA without transcluding an IPA templates, which besides meaning that they don't display properly on IE, makes them difficult to find and verify.

Could you perhaps add onto one of your bots a side search for IPA characters that aren't enclosed in an {{IPA... or {{pron... template, and keep a list somewhere, or flag/categorize? I could then go through and fix them up.

Or is there maybe s.o. else I should ask? Or is there a way to do a search on my own for articles that contain character X?

Thanks — kwami (talk) 07:53, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

{{Audio IPA too and some interwikis include IPA characters . I am looking at the following list:
Rich Farmbrough, 08:24, 14 May 2010 (UTC).
Preliminary list User:Rich Farmbrough/temp14 will remove all with references to "Azer". Based on dump form 12 March. Rich Farmbrough, 09:00, 14 May 2010 (UTC).
Wow, that was fast! Thanks!
Yes, you were right to exclude {{Audio IPA. Sorry, that slipped my mind.
Azeri only has the schwa, so any other hits in those articles would be legit, though there probably aren't many. (It might be easiest just to remove schwa from the search string, or I can ignore anything w schwa in the article name.)
I'm going through another list right now, and it's past my bedtime, but I'll get to this in a day or two. Thanks! — kwami (talk) 09:12, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
Just looking at your exclusion string, "Azer" is probably good if the only hit is schwa, or if the search is case sensitive. But there are several {{Audio templates, sometimes used with unformatted IPA, and it's only {{Audio IPA that I would want to avoid. But I can start with whatever you come up with, and go back to the old list if I have any energy left. — kwami (talk)
Never mind about refining the search any further. I'v gone partway through the list and cut it down to 1200 articles. Probably can eliminate half of the remainder before it gets time intensive.
When the next dump comes along, I have a few requests (additional letters to search for), if you don't mind doing this again (or you could just tell me how), and this time we can just ignore the schwa altogether. It's found in all sorts of things besides Azeri: maybe half the list is hits on schwa. (But it was valuable to do that search at least once.) Also, I'm finding IPA symbols instead of Greek letters in chemical and mathematical formulas, which is rather amusing. — kwami (talk) 00:54, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Obi Muonelo

Ambox warning pn.svg

An editor has nominated one or more articles which you have created or worked on, for deletion. The nominated article is Obi Muonelo. We appreciate your contributions, but the nominator doesn't believe that the article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion and has explained why in his/her nomination (see also Wikipedia:Notability and "What Wikipedia is not").

Your opinions on whether the article meets inclusion criteria and what should be done with the article are welcome; please participate in the discussion(s) by adding your comments to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Obi Muonelo. Please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~).

You may also edit the article during the discussion to improve it but should not remove the articles for deletion template from the top of the article; such removal will not end the deletion debate.

Please note: This is an automatic notification by a bot. I have nothing to do with this article or the deletion nomination, and can't do anything about it. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 01:03, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Uniq quni error?


Some time ago you added an infobox to the Nootdorp article. You wrote: Adding infobox from nl. Wikipedia.
There seems to be a problem with the population reference though. Do you know how to fix that? It's the same code as on the Dutch version and it works there! I think it's this bug ( but I don't know how to fix it.


VH —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vamhendriks (talkcontribs) 14:23, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

There are a number of things - I have fixed the following:
  • Date needs to be iso, not reversed
  • Population needs the punctuation removed.
  • Footnote needs moving to its own field
Also if you can find a figure for the area, the template will calculate the density. Rich Farmbrough, 15:54, 15 May 2010 (UTC).

Hi Rich,

Thanks for the changes :-) I have one more question for you. I have just undone my revision of this afternoon. I deleted a paragraph with information on a rugby league team that after some searching seems to actually exist (apparently I missed it in the 29 years I've lived in Nootdorp, even though the home stadium is the footballclub where I played football myself!!!). I thought the rest of the paragraph was spam also, but having discovered that I was wrong on the rugby-thing, I'm not so sure anymore. Would you mind taking a look at this text:

The town is also well renowned for its cottage arms industry, producing approx. three quarters of the Netherlands' armaments during the first Gulf War [3]. The town has lost out on such industry in recent years, with industrial giants focusing largely on the teahouses of Amsterdam.

Not knowing if this is a true thing or not, I think some things are at least questionable:

  • How is it possible that something that supposedly happened during the Gulf war has a reference to a 1944 publication (which I can't find anywhere else)?
  • If I Google the word uberbeneigektier (which I can't find in a German dictionary) I only get results pointing to this article.
  • The same roughly applies to LeckerShmecker (apart from references to this article, I find references to a person on facebook and to German cooking sites).
  • The authors of the article in the reference: Goering (Nazi war criminal) and Kandinsky (Russian painter that died in 1944)???
  • From armaments to teahouses???
  • Allthough I overlooked the rugby team (about which I'm still flabbergasted!), I'm pretty sure I would have noticed a weapons of war factory (the town is fairly small...)

What do you think?

VH —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vamhendriks (talkcontribs) 16:56, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

It was IP vandalism. Rich Farmbrough, 18:02, 18 May 2010 (UTC).

So I thought.. Thanks for the action :-) —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 18:24, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Tong edit

Hey, just a friendly note. This diff shows that you moved the comment from the cat line to the top. In the future this change shouldn't be made, because the comment doesn't make sense if it's above all the cats. Just an FYI. Wizard191 (talk) 16:45, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, sorted. Rich Farmbrough, 17:53, 18 May 2010 (UTC).
Cheers! Wizard191 (talk) 17:59, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

The Wikipedia Signpost: 17 May 2010

Read this Signpost in full · Single-page · Unsubscribe · EdwardsBot (talk) 19:29, 18 May 2010 (UTC)


When I looked through SmackBots BRFA list, I didn't see any of them that included rearranging references. So they all need to use a fixed version of AWB. If I missed something in the BRFA please let me know. — Carl (CBM · talk) 12:12, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Yes, "common sense" is what I am after too. Adding a "reflist" tag does not inherently require rearranging things in the text part of the article; common sense is that the bot task would not include that. I have carefully explained before why it's bad to automatically rearrange references, and I have also pointed out that you do not have bot approval to do it. These are separate reasons why you need to fix the bot. I am not sure why you are so reluctant to do so. — Carl (CBM · talk) 12:18, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
I am going to go ahead and unblock the bot, since I know you are aware of the issue now. I attempted to contact you by just stopping it, but that wasn't successful. The issue is that none of SmackBot's tasks includes rearranging references, unless I have misread the BRFAs. — Carl (CBM · talk) 12:26, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Having written several bots and [53], I do not believe that maintaining a development environment is anything out of the ordinary for a bot operator; it's a basic part of the job. All that you need to do to "accomodate" me is to disable a single function in the code, which is the most trivial kind of change.
If you had pointed out that you were going to restart a fixed run, and fix the code for the broken one, I would not have blocked the bot or stopped the fixed run. However, you did not respond at all, and I have no ability to tell which runs you have started. As far as I could tell the bot simply restarted itself, maybe because of a crontab.
I will try to avoid bothering you again today, assuming that the bot code is fixed. If I notice broken edits in the future, I will point them out (of course). — Carl (CBM · talk) 12:40, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Bad formatting on tags?

Hi Rich, I have recently noticed that on some orphaned pages, you have made edits that have introduced bad wikitag formatting. Some examples are:

As you can see, the "multiple issues" tag has somehow been corrupted which is causing issues listed in the tag to not be properly tagged with their respective dates. Minor issue, I know, but I just thought I should bring it to your attention. Thanks. Matt.T.911 (talk) 13:53, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Ok thanks. I will probably pick any pages up because of the wrong cats, but I can check my last few thousand edits fro more of the same. Rich Farmbrough, 14:00, 20 May 2010 (UTC).

Your contributed article, Deleteme now

Imbox notice.png

Hello, I notice that you recently created a new page, Deleteme now. First, thank you for your contribution; Wikipedia relies solely on the efforts of volunteers such as yourself. Unfortunately, the page you created covers a topic on which we already have a page - Dick the Mockingbird. Because of the duplication, your article has been tagged for speedy deletion. Please note that this is not a comment on you personally and we hope you will to continue helping improve Wikipedia. If the topic of the article you created is one that interests you, then perhaps you would like to help out at Dick the Mockingbird - you might like to discuss new information at the article's talk page.

If you think that the article you created should remain separate, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}} to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag - if no such tag exists then the page is no longer a speedy delete candidate and adding a hangon tag is unnecessary), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the page does get deleted, you can contact one of these admins to request that they userfy the page or have a copy emailed to you. Additionally if you would like to have someone review articles you create before they go live so they are not nominated for deletion shortly after you post them, allow me to suggest the article creation process and using our search feature to find related information we already have in the encyclopedia. Try not to be discouraged. Wikipedia looks forward to your future contributions. Peasantwarrior (talk) 19:09, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Inherit the Wind

My addition to the article on "Inherit the Wind" linked to the article on the Butler Act, which clearly indicates that Scopes was not subject to imprisonment for violating the Act. What further verification could be required for the statement that Scopes was never subject to a sentence of imprisonment? John Paul Parks (talk) 04:19, 21 May 2010 (UT

The user Johannes003 makes troublesome infections to many wiki articles and also he lacks respect . His edits lacks neutral point of view and serves as monopoly. Please warn him to stop his repetitive infections.The wind or breeze 10:31, 21 May 2010 (UTC) Thank you §The wind or breeze 10:42, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

IMDb agrees Rich Farmbrough, 10:54, 21 May 2010 (UTC). Why you have pasted this in my user talk ? I cant understand . The wind or breeze 11:02, 21 May 2010 (UTC)→ —Preceding unsigned comment added by The wind or breeze (talkcontribs) But it was for 2004 and its National Award and its not our issue which is [TAmilnadu's State Award] —Preceding unsigned comment added by The wind or breeze (talkcontribs) 11:08, 21 May 2010 (UTC) The discussion is for the year 1999 and its for Tamil Nadu State Film Special Award for Best Actor. You understood the other way around. The wind or breeze 11:22, 21 May 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by The wind or breeze (talkcontribs)

Hello sir, I'm the one Johannes who this user is speaking about. He should have first approached me regarding this matter, instead he directly asked you for help and I'm glad he did, I believe he will listen to you. It's about the Tamil Nadu State Film Award (Special Prizes) in 1999. The Special Jury Award for Best Actor was given to Vikram, the Dinakaran site had earlier a full list of the awardees, but since Dinakaran has renovated its website and moved to a new server, the links are no more existent. I still was able to find a link which clearly says that Vikram won the Best Actor Award for Sethu in 1999 [54]. So, problem should solved now, unless he can't proof that Vijay won the Special Best Actor award in 1999, (which he certainly can't since it's not true). What you say? Sorry for the inconvenience and thank you for your understanding. Johannes003 (talk) 11:47, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Best discuss at Talk:Tamil_Nadu_State_Film_Award_(Special_Prizes)#1999. If you two can't find agreement, then ask for help from one of the film projects. Rich Farmbrough, 12:42, 21 May 2010 (UTC).


Hi i am designing a community project for Chelsea and want to make contact with all the Chelsea contributors to Wikipedia —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sarah farrugia (talkcontribs) 11:36, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

List of family offices in Switzerland

Hi there, I added links which direct to this article from other articles. Is this sufficant? Minders1 (talk) 12:36, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Military Barnstar

Military barnstar 01.png Military Barnstar
I'd like to recognize your recent efforts on general cleanup of many US Air Force pages. The Wikipedia project is greatly improved by your efforts!--Ndunruh (talk) 13:17, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
Thank you! And to think I expected to never receive a military award! Rich Farmbrough, 13:25, 21 May 2010 (UTC).

List of allied military operations of the Vietnam War (A-F)

Nuvola apps important.svg

This is an automated message from CorenSearchBot. I have performed a search with the contents of List of allied military operations of the Vietnam War (A-F), and it appears to be very similar to another Wikipedia page: List of allied military operations of the Vietnam War. It is possible that you have accidentally duplicated contents, or made an error while creating the page— you might want to look at the pages and see if that is the case. If you are intentionally trying to rename an article, please see Help:Moving a page for instructions on how to do this without copying and pasting. If you are trying to move or copy content from one article to a different one, please see Wikipedia:Copying within Wikipedia and be sure you have acknowledged the duplication of material in an edit summary to preserve attribution history.

This message was placed automatically, and it is possible that the bot found similarity where none actually exists. If that is the case, you can remove the tag from the article and it would be appreciated if you could drop a note on the maintainer's talk page. CorenSearchBot (talk) 14:27, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

List of allied military operations of the Vietnam War

Hello, I am working on reducing the Category:Pages with broken reference names. Two pages you created on May 21, List of allied military operations of the Vietnam War (1966) and List of allied military operations of the Vietnam War (1975) have broken references, I gather because you broke them out of the larger List of allied military operations of the Vietnam War. I'm unable to load the older version of the article to restore the references (because of the size, it keeps timing out, I'm only on moderate DSL) and would greatly appreciate it if you would go back and make the repairs yourself. thank you!! - Salamurai (talk) 18:37, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

YesY Answered on user's talk page. Rich Farmbrough, 18:45, 21 May 2010 (UTC).
thanks! -Salamurai (talk) 18:57, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
Oh, man. To me, you have almost ruined the article. It was once the longest article in Wikipedia. Because of this, it loses its position. I really don't like this. Carolingian (talk) 19:45, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Removing a stub tag

SmackBot has twice removed a stub tag from Video blogging, and I'm not really sure why. Is it from a size threshold or something? Either way, I don't really agree with the decision. And I had reverted the first edit that did it, only to have SmackBot come back and do it again. Gordon P. Hemsley 00:43, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Yes, the article is bigger than "few sentences". So it's not as stub. Try using {{expand-section}} in order to request expand of a certain section. -- Magioladitis (talk) 00:46, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
Anyway the bot should probably not be edit warring over it :) Does the bot check whether it has already been reverted? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 07:12, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
No it is AWB. I is only edit warring in that it is happening to revisit an article, no that it is searching out either "long stubs" or it's own changes undone. Rich Farmbrough, 08:35, 23 May 2010 (UTC).

Smackbot and Template:Lede

Re bot edits like this: {{lede}} was changed to be a redirect to {{Lead rewrite}} rather than {{Lead too long}}. Cheers, cab (talk) 07:23, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, I have regenerated the rule base. Rich Farmbrough, 10:29, 23 May 2010 (UTC).

Portal box

I just wanted to stop and say good work on fixing the coding for the portalbox template, its much cleaner and easier to use now. One question, since the portal box template can work with 1 or many portals doesn't this make the portal template somewhat deprecated? If the portal box logic were applied to the portal template then there would be no need for the other and we could eliminate 1 of the templates. Just a suggestion. Cheers--Kumioko (talk) 14:25, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Yes I would like to merge the templates. Unfortunately there are many instances of "Portal" with the image as parameter 2. Rich Farmbrough, 14:32, 22 May 2010 (UTC).
Thats a good point. --Kumioko (talk) 15:09, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

I also want to stop by and say thanks for adding the Portal:Capital District box to a bunch of Capital District-related articles. We appreciate it! upstateNYer 21:26, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Since it relates to the same topic Ill add my comment here. I wanted to let you know that another user is going behind you and redoing the United States Marine Corps portals to the template. --Kumioko (talk) 15:24, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

United States visas by type

Can you help removing WPbiography for all articles in Category:United States visas by type. The tag was added accidentally by SmackBot. -- Magioladitis (talk) 00:40, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Certainly. Rich Farmbrough, 18:58, 23 May 2010 (UTC).

RfD nomination of Template:Too Short

I have nominated Template:Too Short (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) for discussion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at the discussion page. Thank you. The Evil IP address (talk) 21:24, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Help:Cite errors

Please exclude Help:Cite errors and all subpages from SmackBot. There are several subpages that are used to demonstrate and maintain the error messages and should not be fixed. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 14:31, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

YesY Answered on user's talk page. Rich Farmbrough, 14:33, 24 May 2010 (UTC).
See the history of Help:Cite errors/Cite error refs without references. I'm not sure how the exclusion is implemented of how it could break. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 14:40, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

General Cleanup

Okay, I understand your dislike of {{BD}} and {{lifetime}} but it appears that you are putting more than one {{DEFAULTSORT}} on some pages and sometimes they are not identical thereby causing a conflict. I have found three instance in edits that you made in the last half-hour. Are you going to go back and fix those articles or should I continue to resolve the conflicts?

Also, could your clean-up include putting the value for {{DEFAULTSORT}} as the value of |listas= on the Talk Page of the Articles?

Thank you. JimCubb (talk) 18:49, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Sorry. It seems you were taking care of the problem when I jumped into the middle of it. However, there is another problem.

The template "Northern Ireland by year" seems to have a {{DEFAULTSORT}} value hidden within it. The articles that use it are named appropriately "yyyy in Northern Ireland" and should probably be sorted that way as I am certain you agree since you put {{DEFAULTSORT}} on the 79 pages that use the template. I am not a template writer but you are. Would you please look at the syntax in the template and remove the hidden value? Thank you. JimCubb (talk) 19:05, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Thank you. JimCubb (talk) 19:20, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Al B. Romano

Somebody keeps vandalizing the Al B. Romano and I'm having trouble implementing the right procedure for preventing unregistered users from doing that. Does Wiki have such a procedure? Shaneymike (talk) 22:51, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

YesY Answered on user's talk page. Rich Farmbrough, 23:02, 24 May 2010 (UTC).
Appreciate it. I'll totally understand if this article winds up being deleted due to lack of notability and I certainly won't bitch about it if that happens. It just really pisses me off to see somebody act as childish as whoever keeps vandalizing it. You know what I mean? Shaneymike (talk) 23:14, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

SmackBot questioning PsychoPy notability

SmackBot put up a notability question mark for the PsychoPy page. I think there is sufficient notability to it:

 - it is software used by a significant number of people (the homepage has >1500 uniques visitors per month)
 - it is pointed at by other pages on wikipedia
 - it has 2 articles published about it (referenced on the page). Although these were written by the software author they have been through external peer-review as quality control
 - it is an open-source equivalent of other commercial packages, eg. Presentation_(Software) and e-Prime_(Software) that do have similar pages.

I guess the problem is that the page was principally written by me (the author of the software). But I've tried to be totally unbiased and reported solely what the software is and how it came about.

Is there any more I can/should do to convince you and/or SmackBot that this is a genuine page of encyclopedic interest to others? I cringe a little at presenting usage/download stats (e.g. the Presentation_(Software) page above lists their own claims of having 10,000 users as an external reference). But I can add stuff like that if it's needed.

cheers Jon.peirce (talk) 11:15, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

YesY Answered on user's talk page. Rich Farmbrough, 17:21, 26 May 2010 (UTC).


I have reported your resumption of the unapproved portal bot job at ANI, here. — Carl (CBM · talk) 15:48, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Sorry - here. — Carl (CBM · talk) 15:53, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Rich, your input would be welcome at the ANI thread (I'm especially interested to know if your editing was manual (and if so, how you managed to edit so fast, overlook mistakes, and edit at the same time as editing in other areas), semi-automatic, or fully automated), also, please turn off the bot while that and the BRfA request you just submitted are ongoing. - Kingpin13 (talk) 16:47, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

The Wikipedia Signpost: 24 May 2010

Read this Signpost in full · Single-page · Unsubscribe · EdwardsBot (talk) 04:22, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Slovakian villages

Hi Rich! I created the Slovakian villages in the wiki dark ages when I did not know about pin maps or infoboxes. They were created with rather redundant district maps. I was wondering if you could make a template like you did with Hungary and add infoboxes to all of the articles with coordinates for pin and remove these maps at the same time? Something like this. I believe that Slovak wiki has the infoboxes and the information can just be copied into English if that would be best...I've added a few to articles like Bruty but this sort of thing would best be done with what I suggested I think. How are you? We haven't spoken for a while. I rather got the impression you got tired of me, understandable.. Dr. Blofeld White cat 09:14, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

What do you mean broken? I see... Dr. Blofeld White cat 12:12, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia:List of U.S. state portals

I like your rearrangement of Wikipedia:List of U.S. state portals. Originally, this was just a list of U.S. state portals and nothing more. As more things were added, they were put on the right. Your arrangement is much more logical. Yours aye, Buaidh (talk) 18:51, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, I was wondering if the page would belong now at a slightly different title, but I couldn't come up with anything satisfactory Wikipedia:List of U.S. state meta-pages is accurate but clumsy, all the other useful terms like list and index are specific items already. Rich Farmbrough, 18:57, 27 May 2010 (UTC).

London Transport

Was this series of edits discussed anywhere? At least one (Crayford Manor House Astronomical Society) has no relationship whatsoever to London Transport, while Holborn Viaduct railway station has had a link to P:LT added immediately below :llan identical existing link. What criteria are you using in selecting which pages get this link added? – iridescent 20:58, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Look at the history fro Crayford_Manor_House_Astronomical_Society and you will see the net edit is to remove an unwanted navbox. Rich Farmbrough, 20:59, 28 May 2010 (UTC).
Ah, I see. If you're doing the run in future it would probably be worth skipping anything that already has a link to P:LT on it (most of the LT infoboxes include it) to avoid the duplication as with Holborn Viaduct (which currently has three copies of the link). – iridescent 21:03, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
Yes I actually was doing it by hand, I whittled down several hundred articles to about 30. The point was to remove redundant boxes from other pages (by removing a transcluded transclusion) not add them where they weren't wanted. Rich Farmbrough, 21:07, 28 May 2010 (UTC).
Aah, got you. Makes sense now. – iridescent 21:08, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
Holborn Viaduct, however you are perfectly correct, I have removed the surplus item. Rich Farmbrough, 21:07, 28 May 2010 (UTC).

SmackBot is awesome

Thanks for making it. I'd been doing things wrong with the formatting of links, and I hadn't been looking forward to fixing them all by hand. It did all of that for me. Keep up the good work! =) Faceless Enemy (talk) 01:39, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

SFriendly.gif Rich Farmbrough, 17:55, 30 May 2010 (UTC).

User:Rich Farmbrough/temp60

Rich, I'm wondering why your development page User:Rich Farmbrough/temp60 has been added to the Led Zeppelin Project. Probably no big deal but the page is showing up in project stats as needing an assessment, etc. Please remove the project banner from that page when you get the chance. Thanks. --DOOMSDAYER520 (Talk|Contribs) 21:36, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Comparison of regular expression engines

Hello, SmackBot has twice deleted a reference on the page Comparison of regular expression engines, making the page kick out on Category:Pages with broken reference names. I don't know what its problem is, could you please make it stop or change the ref's name to something that it will like? Thanks. (Also, your user message on SmackBot's talk page has typos, you may want to fix.) - Salamurai (talk) 21:47, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Fixed. Two refs on the same page with the same name, but grouped differently, and using the same group name. I changed on ref name, I should probably have changed the group names. Rich Farmbrough, 22:18, 30 May 2010 (UTC).
thanks. Didn't notice the group names were all the same; I'm about to change that. - Salamurai (talk) 22:27, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
actually, never mind, renaming the groups doesn't actually work. - Salamurai (talk) 22:34, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

On SmackBot, when you "add a new section" a notice appears suggesting leaving a note here instead, that's where the typos were. I just discovered I can edit that notice (User talk:SmackBot/Editnotice) and have done so. (I spend a lot of time proofreading.) thanks for your help - Salamurai (talk) 22:42, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

TY. Rich Farmbrough, 23:02, 30 May 2010 (UTC).

Monthly cleanup categories

I see you are doing something that makes a bit of a problem e.g. in Category:Articles needing additional references from June 2010, so I'll rely on you to make the categories this month. Unless you tell me I can go ahead. Debresser (talk) 10:01, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

I felt sure you were going to do something like that sooner or later. If you need any help, please tell me so. Debresser (talk) 10:13, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
It strikes me as rather redundant to have these pages with {{Null}} as their only content. Can't that be avoided? Debresser (talk) 11:41, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
I did a few, but am not up to doing all of them. I have no time to create the subtemplates. You may have noticed I am hardly on Wikipedia nowadays. I'll checks those I already did though. Debresser (talk) 11:49, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
I made a fix and a small change to Template:Monthly clean up category/to add. Looks nice now, IMHO. Debresser (talk) 12:03, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

I had quite some work cleaning up a few mistakes I made before I found out how everything works. In addition, I tried to add a whiteline in front of the TOC, just as there are extra whitelines in front and after the refresh button. I added it in Template:Monthly clean up category/core, but don't see any change. Could you have a look at it, please. Debresser (talk) 12:20, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

That worked. Nice. BTW, wouldn't it be better to have the message before the refresh button? Debresser (talk) 12:29, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
I think the refresh button is useful for people who work intensiively on a certain category. But isdoesn't seem logical to have it between the general description of all categories and the specific message. It could come between the message and the TOC, e.g. Debresser (talk) 12:34, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Not completely. :) Sometimes a date-dependend interwiki is added to a cleanup category. Debresser (talk) 12:39, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

And I guess {{As of}} still needs to be done by hand. Debresser (talk) 12:40, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
You had to introduce |datecat= to solve the problem of subcategories, I see. Nice. Debresser (talk) 12:42, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
I obviously agree with you not to create dated interwikis automatically. Please consider the placement of the refresh button again sometime. Good luck! Debresser (talk) 12:55, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

The new button is too big. And inconveniently placed. Just keep the old one, but have it right above the TOC. Debresser (talk) 14:18, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Must be a matter of taste. ;-) Debresser (talk) 16:48, 31 May 2010 (UTC)


Not sure what happened here, but it completely messed up the page. Xeworlebi (tc) 16:35, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Very oddly there is (was) an empty element in the list of redirects to {{Expand section}}. Fixed for now. Thanks for the note. Rich Farmbrough, 17:27, 31 May 2010 (UTC).
Caused by template: {{...}}.. sigh

regex for floruit AWB FR

I'm hoping you've got a regex for the floruit AWB FR that I can put in the genfixes. Thanks Rjwilmsi 12:48, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes check.svg Done Rich Farmbrough, 12:58, 1 June 2010 (UTC).

Tamil films

Hi can you add this to the rest of the Tamil films 1942-present I think for these lists it looks bare without a side bar. Shortly I'll make one for Bengali cinema. SO if you could quickly add them using AWB this would be agreat help. \Yes also Bengali see this, If you could de clutter the bottom templatesd somwhat and add this side plate this would be great. Dr. Blofeld White cat 14:42, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Don't worry the side bar is used in all of the film articles like British films of 1969 etc... It is normal.. Dr. Blofeld White cat 14:59, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Yeah that's the problem with Indian films is lack of credible sources. Most are fan blogs. Even Bollywood films you have a hard time finding decent sources, Even for 2000s films. So imagine trying to write an article about a 1946 Malayalam film...Somehow I managed to concoct Joymati and Indramalati which are Assamese! But only becayse they were the pioneering films.. Dr. Blofeld White cat 15:06, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Cheers. That was fast! Dr. Blofeld White cat 15:23, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

The Wikipedia Signpost: 31 May 2010

Read this Signpost in full · Single-page · Unsubscribe · EdwardsBot (talk) 22:36, 1 June 2010 (UTC)


Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2010 June 2 Debresser (talk) 09:49, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia:List of U.S. state portals

I think we should all aspire to Not that bad. --Buaidh (talk) 18:35, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

It could always look worse. --Buaidh (talk) 18:51, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Categories for discussion nomination of Category:Articles containing explicitly cited English language text

Info talk.png

Category:Articles containing explicitly cited English language text, which you created, has been nominated for deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 01:06, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

New template

I found a new maintenance template, Template:Opinion Debresser (talk) 11:38, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

TY added to SB's list. Rich Farmbrough, 12:58, 1 June 2010 (UTC).
Do you think it should be added to any maintenance categories? Debresser (talk) 09:50, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
NPOV? Rich Farmbrough, 13:46, 2 June 2010 (UTC).
Or Category:Articles with minor POV problems. Debresser (talk) 21:15, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
Sure, either. Rich Farmbrough, 13:44, 4 June 2010 (UTC).

SmackBot, period hunter?

Hi, Rich. I'm more or less completely bot-ignorant, so let me begin by asking for a fool's pardon if what I'm suggesting is not feasible. I've noticed that many references in WP articles have duplicated periods, one before the ref tag and then a superfluous one after it (Macropsia#Epilepsy (note 20) and Macropsia#Viruses (note 24) are a couple of examples I've left uncorrected so you can see what I mean). Is deleting the extra period a task that might be added to SmackBot's chore list?

Similarly, in a stupefyingly large number of cases, ref tags are placed before punctuation rather than after it, where MOS:PAIC recommends they be placed. Superfluous spaces before punctuation marks are another abundant eyesore. Are these potential SmackBot-y tasks? Perhaps the consumption of resources outweighs the benefits of large numbers of trivial changes, but as a reader I find that poor copyediting damages my impression of an article's credibility, whereas even seemingly trivial improvements, if they contribute to an article's professional appearance, can considerably enhance it. Cheers. -- Rrburke (talk) 15:51, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

The first case could be usefully added to general fixes for WP:AWB (which is the program behind SmackBot almost all the time), the second has, I think been turned down, for the case where one wants to ref a phrase or word, rather than the whole sentence. Rich Farmbrough, 19:58, 3 June 2010 (UTC).
Thanks. I've asked for permission to use AWB so I'll have at least a faint idea what I'm talking about before submitting a feature request. To clarify: when only a word or phrase (occuring at the end of a sentence) is being reffed, the ref is to be placed prior to the period? -- Rrburke (talk) 13:43, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
I put a feature req in anyway. That's what I understand, although I could support an argument that the level of granularity for references is not a good thing. but we are talking perhaps of stuff like " Large planets include Uranus[1], Saturn[2] and Jupiter[3]." Rich Farmbrough, 13:48, 4 June 2010 (UTC).

SmackBot ISBN code

Hi. Have you released your code for checking ISBNs for good hyphenation, good checksum, and assignment of language/publisher code (or could you, pretty please)? Thanks much. (You can reply only here.)—msh210 17:49, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Some of it was released: the hypenation code is here but is for an old version of AWB. The checksumming code will need re-creating, it was lost in a disk crash I think. Rich Farmbrough, 19:51, 3 June 2010 (UTC).
Ah, the hyphenation was the one I wanted least. Oh, well. Thanks much, anyway.—msh210 15:12, 4 June 2010 (UTC)


I noticed you had a sub-page dealing with New York Hardcore and thought you might find this quote from Harley Flanagan of the Cro-Mags interesting (and hopefully not offensive):

The one obvious difference between way back in the day and now days is back then we didn't have the internet and shit like that, so now word travels faster and shit is able to spread quicker. Back then you really had to know what was up, you had to go and find out for yourself. Now you can google it, or even better Wikipedia it so you can make sure to get all your facts wrong.[55]

--Supertouch (talk) 21:39, 3 June 2010 (UTC)


Since you seem to be the point man on this portal cleanup endeavor I thought I would let you know that I think I have completed the portal cleanup for the following portals: American Civil War, United States Army, United States Navy and United States Marine Corps. I can't say I did every one but I think between the 2 of us we covered most of them. I am currently working on United States Airforce and then I will work on World War I, World War II and Coast guard. Not necessarily in that order. Please let me know if there is anything else you would like me to look at. --Kumioko (talk) 18:11, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

That should keep you busy! Great stuff. Rich Farmbrough, 18:13, 4 June 2010 (UTC).
Yep, I got about 2200 pages left for the Air Force so itll take me a couple days. Im not as fast as you. --Kumioko (talk) 18:26, 4 June 2010 (UTC)


Dear Mr. Farmbrough,

You put an "orphan" tag to the contribution "Ivan Samylovskii". This contribution was kindly formatted by your colleagues "Chase me ladies, I am the Cavalry" upon a request. My understanding was that this biography will be hosted by one of the Wikipedia Projects, and I hoped that the biography would be published under WikiProject Biography, and was puzzled to see the "orphan" tag. I added all reasonable and meaningful links to other Wikipedia article and will be very grateful if you could please take of the "orphan" tag. If you could kindly advise on whether there is anything I could/should do to have this biography with "WikiProject Biography" tag, please kindly let me know. All my apologies if I did something wrong, I am very new to Wikipedia and my only concern is to have Samylovskii's biography in the best possible format and in the most appropriate project.

I have noticed the biography is linked to "Soviet diplomats" page, but unfortunately, it is misplaced, and there is no way I can change it and place under the letter "S" by family name(to move it from the letter "I" where it is now since Ivan is the first name).

I would highly appreciate if you respond me. Look forward to hearing from you. The administrator mentioned above has all my contact details. Yours sincerely, ERASWK (talk) 19:29, 5 June 2010 (UTC) ERASWK

YesY Answered on user's talk page. Rich Farmbrough, 08:15, 6 June 2010 (UTC).


Hello, I have personally had multiple seizures induced by Hydrogen sulfide remaining in a medicinal Hash Called budder,

This hash is very rare and there have been 0 studies on it and its effects etc.

I have only my experiences and the experiences of 3 other patients who had seizures after smoking budder.

I edited the budder wiki a long time ago to add these as possible side effects to WARN PEOPLE OUT THERE that this is NOT A SAFE DRUG

Yet i find i have had to re-edit it maybe 20 times to combat against People who make/sell it, People who think im an idiot and have no idea what im talking about, And wikipedia mods who claim my research is unreferenced.

Your bot has been making edits on that page although its quite difficult for me to make out what he removed and what others have i have a couple questions.

Is there any way for me to setup a bot that re-posts the information i know to be true, As to inform the other possible victims of this drug of the dangers?

And could you possibly have your bot stop removing my section of the wiki if he is doing so?

I really appreciate your time, If people like you didnt exist the internet could be a terrible place filled with l33tspeak, gramatical errors, and false claims everywhere ;-)

Thanks again —Preceding unsigned comment added by NotAlright (talkcontribs) 21:23, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

YesY Answered on user's talk page. Rich Farmbrough, 18:19, 6 June 2010 (UTC).

AWB issue?

Not sure if this was an AWB issue (and thus should be reported there) or something else, but something definitely went wrong with this edit. - TexasAndroid (talk) 15:19, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. It's a kinda known issue where the API seems to serve an empty page once in many thousands of pages. AWB threw an error for that page (correctly) but I somehow managed to save it anyway. Rich Farmbrough, 15:22, 4 June 2010 (UTC).

AWB wrecked this article’s formatting with English-language_editions_of_The_Hobbit&diff=366408369&oldid=349577059. The formatting of the article is idiosyncratic and perhaps ought to be structured some other way, but I don’t know how to fix it, and clearly AWB doesn’t, either! ;^) Strebe (talk) 19:35, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

I'm sure this article used to be more extensive with illustrations. Thanks for the not I will make the changes using Firefox. Rich Farmbrough, 19:41, 6 June 2010 (UTC).

A question from us...

Hello dear Rich,

A few months ago we have included an important insurance software company in Wikipedia, see this page: IDIT_I.D.I._Technologies

We would really appreciate to know why Wikipedia sais that this page is written like an advertisement, as we would like to fix it.

We appreciate your help. Thanks a lot! —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 13:20, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

It looks OK to me as it stands, I made a few minor improvements. Rich Farmbrough, 18:07, 6 June 2010 (UTC).

Portal moving when portals have named arguments

Rich, I'm not clear on how {{portal box}} supports multiple portals coming with named arguments (for doing the AWB portal merging FR). Can you put an example in the documentation as your portal settings link is a dead link? Thanks Rjwilmsi 13:23, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

YesY Answered on user's talk page. Rich Farmbrough, 18:08, 6 June 2010 (UTC).

SmackBot and portal fixes

[56] -- Magioladitis (talk) 23:52, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

That was quick! -- Magioladitis (talk) 00:00, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

One more comment: I would like that you comment on Wikipedia_talk:AutoWikiBrowser/Feature_requests#Succession table. If Headbomb os right we have to replace start box with s-start instead of only capitalising as you did [57]. -- Magioladitis (talk) 00:00, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Be aware: New genfixes bug

Wrong removal of small tag. Problem in FixSmallTags in FixSyntax procedure in Parsers. -- Magioladitis (talk) 00:19, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Line Breaks

The Smackbot is going around and adding a slash to the line breaks (i.e. turning <br> into <br />). But, based on a conversation I had awhile ago with the Line Break people (see here), it should not have the slash included...though it is ok to have, the correct way is without the slash.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 01:29, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Sorry for bursting in uninvited here, but no, the correct way is <br />, not <br>, <br/>, </br>, or some other form. <br> is acceptable in normal HTML, but Wikipedia is supposed to be based on XHTML, according to the top of every Wikipedia page: "<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" ""> ", and XHTML only allows <br />. Sorafune +1 01:43, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
NP, I had already replied on Bignole's talk. Rich Farmbrough, 01:50, 7 June 2010 (UTC).
Ah, I see. Well either way, I might as well retract my comment. Sorafune +1 03:27, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
Not at all, it's all good stuff. Rich Farmbrough, 07:56, 7 June 2010 (UTC).

SmackBot - Bad bot edit

Here. Have fun. - TexasAndroid (talk) 15:55, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes, lots of... Rich Farmbrough, 16:00, 7 June 2010 (UTC).

SmackBot removing orphan tags to aggressively?

E.g. on Canopy clustering algorithm, SmackBot removed the orphan tag. However, the article is only linked from User:, WP: namespaces and "List of ..." pages. Cophenetic correlation is another example of a barely-reachable article, where SmackBot removed the just added orphan tag immediately. Maybe you should not count "List of ..." pages when considering removing the orphan tag? IMHO these articles needs to be linked better, and should thus keep the orphan tag. --Chire (talk) 09:35, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

This is an AWB function, I will investigate if it includes "List of". Rich Farmbrough, 09:53, 6 June 2010 (UTC).
"List of" is counted like any other mainspace page. Wikipedia:Orphan#Criteria has no mention of "List of" being special. Rjwilmsi 13:25, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
This criteria was removed (rightly) in July last year - things like Bulbophyllum abbreviatum are unlikely to ever have links except form lists. Nonetheless I would consider not counting them for purposes of removing orphan tags. What do you think? Rich Farmbrough, 18:22, 6 June 2010 (UTC).
I'd also set the auto-remove threshold higher than the auto-add threshold. There are situations where you have three isolated articles that link to each other. By the formal definition, they all have two "true" incoming links and thus are not orphans. But actually they are not reachable, since the links are a clique (graph theory). So how about adding orphan tags only for "strong" orphans, while automatically removing orphan tags only on pages that have more than say 3 incoming links from "strong" pages, and leaving the other "orphan" tags for human editors to decide? By too strongly auto-editing orphan tags via the bot they somewhat lose their use for human editors, IMHO. But I'm rather new to Wikipedia. --Chire (talk) 08:46, 7 June 2010 (UTC)
There is a switch to only add for zero incoming article links - I use that. In terms of disconnected parts of the graph, the overhead in loading articles is too great to even make a small exploration of the surrounding nodes, however you can grab a database dump (remembering that this is a directed graph) and do graphical analysis on that to find orphan groups (sub-graphs with no incoming links). I suspect there wouldn't be any - sweeping statement I know - or at worst a few that could be quickly fixed, but it would be good to know for sure. Rich Farmbrough, 08:53, 7 June 2010 (UTC).
Incidentally node colouring is the way to go if you do, but you probably know that. Rich Farmbrough, 08:54, 7 June 2010 (UTC).
Yeah, I don't expect SmackBot to check for cliques. I just wanted to note that e.g. an editor might have added an "orphan" tag because the page is part of such a clique, but the editor isn't sure where to add appropriate links. SmackBot would remove the orphan tag again, because he just sees there are enough incoming links. --Chire (talk) 08:52, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Ha - so you do exist!

Just spotted you on Hilbert space ;-) Stephen B Streater (talk) 19:32, 7 June 2010 (UTC)


I love you SmackBot! :D Faceless Enemy (talk) 03:37, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

SmackBot's tin heart is warmed. Rich Farmbrough, 09:47, 8 June 2010 (UTC).

Portal link broken by SmackBot

I just wanted to point out that the following edit: "FIx up portal template" actually broken the portal template link. Please take these type of cases into consideration for future edits. --dbolton (talk) 04:17, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. Resolved (including past cases). Rich Farmbrough, 09:48, 8 June 2010 (UTC).

Lady Gaga

[58], [59] = did not seem to work. Thoughts? -- Cirt (talk) 06:00, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

User:MSGJ has fixed. Just casing. Rich Farmbrough, 09:46, 8 June 2010 (UTC).
Okay, thanks! -- Cirt (talk) 23:14, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Template:Infobox shopping mall

Hi. I've added the only two special paramters to infoobox building so this template is OK for merging. There are four people in support on the talk page including Plastikspork who didn't comment. Can you use AWB to go through what link here to the mall template and replace with Infobox building? This way maps can be added to the infoboxes and the standard parameters added. Dr. Blofeld White cat 14:54, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

If you compare here you'll see how these can be replaced. Really though the number of stores, number of anchors and parking should go further up in the Template:Infobox shopping mall. If you can account for the name variation perhaps you could create a wrapper template and use AWB to replace them or whatever way you do it. Dr. Blofeld White cat 15:04, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

That's because a wrapper template needs to be made and the template able to accomodate for both parameter names, like you;ve done previously. Once that is done the templates can be switched. It should have far more parameters than the example you gave like this. They can be filled out by other people over time. Probably some of the engineering sections and "antenna" could be taken out though. Dr. Blofeld White cat 21:41, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Yeah looking at templates tired is never a good idea! Always best to look at them with a clear head. Dr. Blofeld White cat 21:45, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Removing anti-italicizing marks from {{cite web}} templates

Hi, as can be seen in this edit, SmackBot is removing anti-italicizing marks in the work= parameters of my templates. In a discussion I held on that template's talk page, Template_talk:Cite_web#.22Work.22_vs_.22Publisher.22_parameters, I was wondering why the work= parameter had to be italicized when it was clearly used for websites. Most websites are not published journals and should not be italicized. I'm going to revert the bot's edits, but I won't stop the bot. I'd like your input. Thank you. – Kerαunoςcopiagalaxies 19:40, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Thank you so much for the fixes! – Kerαunoςcopiagalaxies 21:21, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Low-Pass Filter (Electronics) Article


I am not a wikipedia member, but I noticed an error on the Low Pass Filter article ( and have fixed the vandalism I found, but I don't know if any is present in other parts of the article. Also, I assume you have some way of blocking IP addresses so vandals can't just go back and vandalize whatever they want, so if you could block the vandal, that would be great.

Sorry if this isn't the 'official' way of fixing articles or whatever, but you happened to be the last actual member of wikipedia to do anything to the article, so I thought you could help.

Thanks, Josh —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 19:46, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for fixing it. Yes we can and do block but we tend do warn first. Rich Farmbrough, 20:29, 8 June 2010 (UTC).

330th Bombardment Group

Thank you for you assistance with my 330th Bombardment Group page!

Cheers,(B29bomber (talk) 20:15, 8 June 2010 (UTC))

Index of ?-related articles

It is inappropriate to add a Template:Empty section box to the alphabetical index articles. Virtually all of these articles have letter sections for which there are no existing articles. It is very misleading to ask editors to add information to these sections. Could you remove these templates with SmackBot. Thanks, Buaidh (talk) 22:29, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for bringing it to my attention, fixing now. Rich Farmbrough, 22:39, 8 June 2010 (UTC).
Done. You can actually make a TOC that works using one of the compact TOC templates - and call the top section "other" rather than an incorrect 0-9. There is also a {{Center}} if you wish to use it. Rich Farmbrough, 23:03, 8 June 2010 (UTC).

SmackBot is misbehaving

SmackBot is being used to convert appropriate Wikitext like:

{{portal|Scotland|Flag of Scotland.svg{{!}}border|size=x22px}}{{Scotland WPbox}}{{Scotland NB}}

into gibberish like:

{{Portal|Scotland}}border|size=x22px}}{{Scotland WPbox}}{{Scotland NB}}

Could you please see who is doing this and ask them to restore the original Wikitext. Thanks, Buaidh (talk) 22:40, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Empty sections

I noticed that you removed a lot of Empty section tags. Do you think we have to modify the auto-tagger somehow? -- Magioladitis (talk) 23:32, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Well, it's a moot point. Skip one character headings sounds sensible. But if those sections are empty, and it's not reasonable to ask for entries, then maybe there should be no section, or maybe P-Q rather than P and an empty Q? But of course either play merry hell with Compact TOCs - I'm sure I've addressed this before somewhere - maybe it was one of my own pages which don't matter so much. Rich Farmbrough, 23:36, 8 June 2010 (UTC).
I confess that I have also been deleting empty sections manually as well. Although I did stop after the conversation on the AWB feature request. --Kumioko (talk) 23:38, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

We could omit 1-letter headers. The tagger can't help on lists a lot anyway. -- Magioladitis (talk) 23:54, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

I think its the way to go. Also [0-9 –—-]+ for years. If the page is mature, the empty sections should be pulled out, subject to the problems mentioned above. Rich Farmbrough, 23:58, 8 June 2010 (UTC).


Nuvola apps edu languages.svg
Hello, Rich Farmbrough. You have new messages at Kumioko's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.
Oh ok I would have thought at least a couple hundred thousand. On a seperate note I have noticed a number of articles with multiple Commons cat links. I have been manually changing them to Commons cat multi but that might be an edit that could be added to AWB and or Smackbot in the future.--Kumioko (talk) 00:21, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

The Wikipedia Signpost: 7 June 2010

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Hamburg portal

I've found another portal box that you could convert. {{Hamburg portal}} -- WOSlinker (talk) 19:53, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Here's another - {{WPEssayportal}} -- WOSlinker (talk) 22:39, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
YesY Answered on user's talk page. Rich Farmbrough, 22:42, 9 June 2010 (UTC).

Revision to Sid Meier's Alien Crossfire and Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri articles

I noticed that you have revised either Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri or Sid Meier's Alien Crossfire.

I intend to revise those articles following the Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/Article guidelines. There are more details on the discussion pages of those articles. I'd be interested in any comments you have. It would be best if your comments were on the discussion pages of the two articles.

Thank you.

Vyeh (talk) 03:58, 10 June 2010 (UTC)


«₯»« b nepali is the one of the most recognise able contry whhere the people living with cooperative thinking »À —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 08:20, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Fantastic! Rich Farmbrough, 08:33, 10 June 2010 (UTC).


Is your addition of Category:Templates with transitional syntax to Template:Portal intended as preparation for eliminating the named parameters, eliminating the positional parameters, or merely an act of terrorism? Yours aye, Buaidh (talk) 22:07, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

The first of the three. Rich Farmbrough, 10:20, 11 June 2010 (UTC).
Is there a consensus that the named parameters should be eliminated? Named parameters are generally considered more flexible than positional parameters. If a template has more than five positional parameters, it is pretty hard to tell which position is which. --Buaidh (talk) 13:06, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

Odd behaviour by SmackBot

Hi Rich. I'm wondering why SmackBot removed the <small> formatting in this edit. I've fixed it, but I thought you might like to know. Regards. DH85868993 (talk) 08:41, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. Looks like it's a regression of a known AWB bug. Rich Farmbrough, 10:21, 11 June 2010 (UTC).

Maybe you could help in this one

User_talk:Magioladitis#Follow-up_on_to_my_commons_cat_multi_question_on_the_AWB_FR_page. We need to simplify/merge stuff. -- Magioladitis (talk) 16:18, 12 June 2010 (UTC)


I give up. Why is your user name on this page's title misspelled?--Bbb23 (talk) 00:06, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

It's the display title code at the top. Hard to do anything fun with it, because as an anti vandalism measure it can only omit letters or change formatting. Rich Farmbrough, 02:12, 14 June 2010 (UTC).


Good evening good sir! I wanted to ask you about the ongoing conversations regarding the commons templates. I left a comment/question in Mag's talk page and I was wondering if you were going to take a stab at fixing the coding or if you were under the impression I was doing it, which I am willing to try, but I am not very good with. --Kumioko (talk) 00:20, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes I will probably have a look at it. But it's hard to know what to include, also on the one had removing redundancy is good, but creating monstrous templates is bad. Rich Farmbrough, 02:12, 14 June 2010 (UTC).


I have seen that you edited some volleyball articles. Some players articles, most of them looks outdated. I would like to improve players by country. Could you please choose a country to contribute with? Please take a look on Yekaterina Gamova, Hélia Souza, Serena Ortolani and Kenia Carcaces for a model to follow. Please can you please improve some volleyball players with infobox and some addons? References are very important. Let me know. Oscar987 22:08, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Redirects to Citation needed etc.

Rich, when SmackBot changes {{fact}}, {{cn}} etc. into {{Citation needed|date=June 2010}}, does it work from all existing redirects to that template, or just a list which you have set up? I'm asking because a lot of new redirects seem to have been created in the last few days, see Template talk:Unreferenced#Redirects, and the user concerned has also amended several redirects (some of which he created, and some which already existed) to point to different templates. Some of them have pointed to {{citation needed}} at some point, see here. --Redrose64 (talk) 10:18, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

I don't necessarily want you to do a new build ahead of schedule; the thing is, there is a possibility that some of these redirects (new or existing) may have been used by people who believed that they had one effect, but the effect has been changed. The user in question attempted to alter WP:MYSPACE from Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not#Wikipedia is not a blog, webspace provider, social networking, or memorial site to Wikipedia:Facebook, which is a huge difference of meaning. This particular case isn't a template, but it's a redirect which was altered without thought for the consequences (it has since been reverted). I don't want to see collateral damage by, say {{citation needed}} popping up in places where {{unreferenced}} was intended - or vice versa. BTW, I'm watching this page, because I like to keep threads in one place. --Redrose64 (talk) 12:34, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia templates

Rich, either my computer is messing up, or there's a serious problem with all the templates that just occured. Somebody's messing around with this! Please fix ASAP! Thanks. Best, --Discographer (talk) 23:34, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

The problem is, is that somebody removed (hide)/(show) from the upper right-hand corner of the actual template template. See my talk page for example, as I've always kept them closed, not opened, as they now appear. This drastically affects the group templete box to, as you will see (well, as you would know, since you're the template expert)! Best, --Discographer (talk) 06:06, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
Hello. I encounter the same problem as mentioned by the editor above, however, this is when I use new features. When I use old features, it does not do this. --Astrodia (talk) 19:31, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
Thanks, one for WP:VP/T. Rich Farmbrough, 19:33, 15 June 2010 (UTC).

This may explain the problem and provide a solution. Rich Farmbrough, 19:38, 15 June 2010 (UTC).

Hi Rich, again. Thanks for responding back to me! I clicked on that link you mentioned, and couldn't find anything there. Interesting, that I'm not the only one with this problem. I'll have to try the old way again, but I've been doing this the new way since the last time I talked to you, and I had no template problems (hide/show) until last night! I'm going to bring this up on that link you gave me. Thanks Rich, as always! Best, --Discographer (talk) 20:34, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
How do I clear the cache (I don't even know what a cache is? Oh, God, that must be pretty bad!) Best, --Discographer (talk) 20:38, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
Depending on the exact issue, see WP:PURGE or WP:BYPASS. --Redrose64 (talk) 20:45, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
It worked! I pushed the "Ctrl" key and pressed the "F5" key, and now it's restored! It is now fixed. I'm so happy! Thanks Rich, and thanks Redrose, I have to remember this. Best, --Discographer (talk) 21:06, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

The Wikipedia Signpost: 14 June 2010

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Re:User talk pages

Sorry, it is necessary for this purpose, I may only have to stop here when I'm finally done with it. (talk) 16:59, 16 June 2010 (UTC)


Hi Rich,
I've dumped some more candidates into WP:PCQ. Since you've notified the talk pages of the last batch, would you do the same for those? Won't hurt, even though most of the concerns we got as feedback weren't actually coming from the article watchers I think.
If not I'll ask someone else, or do it myself tomorrow. :)
Cheers, Amalthea 22:47, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Wrong edit summary. :) Amalthea 23:50, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
If I had a pound for every time I have done that.... Rich Farmbrough, 23:53, 16 June 2010 (UTC). 23:53, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Ulysses S. Grant Pending Changes

Hi Rich. In the USG article I am attempting to change the USG Civil War segment. The current Civil War segment on the USG article is to be transferred to a separate article, since it has outgrown this article. Having a separate article on USG and the Civil War will allow room for expansion. The rewrite on the Civil War section is only done to condense the USG article, not to make any drastic changes or cause edit wars. Rjensen approved. I have put the summary in the Talk page to get input and I am allowing others to review the USG Civil War summary and make comments. I have gotten valuable help on the edits. The summary in the talk page includes information on the Battle of North Anna and Lee's dysentary during the Overland Campaign. The purpose is to make the USG bio article stream line and give separate articles to longer life topics. A separate article can also be done on USG's world tour. Articles on his Presidency and Presidential scandals have already been done. The 150 Anniversary of the Civil War is coming up and it has been mention that a separate article on USG's civil war carreer would be good. {Cmguy777 (talk) 02:28, 17 June 2010 (UTC)}


Hi! smackbot. I am an adminn from hindi wikipedia. i observed that you made a very big contribution to make vaarta shirshak(talk pages). so we all give thank to you. but why you have stopped your bot now. please come in hindi wikipedia at some small intervals so that all talk pages may get form. I think mr gunjan verma there had already talked to you about this. so I request you to do your bot activity.regards--mayurkumar —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 06:14, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Baseball lists

Just wondering if there was some sort of discussion as to why the lists of baseball jargon were moved to "Glossary of baseball". Thanks. — KV5Talk • 11:42, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

YesY Answered on user's talk page. Rich Farmbrough, 12:07, 17 June 2010 (UTC).

Portalpar template

I wanted to let you know I have finished going through the articles that linked to portalpar. There are still about 5 that pop up but I can't figure out why but the other 4500+ are done. Now I am working on WWI and WWI portals. Ill let you know when I am done. --Kumioko (talk) 16:33, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

I noticed that too with what transcludes here. everytime I run it I get a few more. --Kumioko (talk) 16:39, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Template:Infobox Underground stock

Hi Rich. Could you please have another look at your last edit to this template? I don't understand what your change was supposed to do. The infobox now always shows a weight value of "date= May 2010".

Cheers -- EdJogg (talk) 15:13, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes check.svg Done -- Thank you. -- EdJogg (talk) 19:14, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Hoxne Hoard

You might be interested in this project Wikipedia:GLAM/BM/Hoxne_challenge... Are you a "FA Kinda guy"? Witty Lama 19:01, 17 June 2010 (UTC)


In this edit of Portal:Mars, SmackBot misunderstands the syntax. Iceblock (talk) 19:29, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, fixed already, but I found another page affected (out of 30,000 checked) so thanks for the note. Rich Farmbrough, 09:42, 19 June 2010 (UTC).


Hey, the citation you left (House of Hair with Dee Snider) saying that Blackie Lawless was born in Staten Island, that doesn't actually say that he was born there, it only says that he was raised there. In an interview that I found on Youtube, Blackie said that he was born in the kitchen of the Rainbow Bar and Grill in Los Angeles California. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 22:13, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

YesY Answered on user's talk page. Rich Farmbrough, 09:43, 19 June 2010 (UTC).


Rich, I am a descendent of Lt. Col. Stephen Moulton. The information you have looks correct. I have much more on his genealogy if you think the entry deserves more.

Where did you get this picture and why do you know it is him?

Kirk Moulton —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 02:02, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

Details on the picture are at File:Stephen Moulton 33.GIF (Granted permission by Floyd NY County Clerk). The author of the article and uploader of the picture is User:HMS INDEFATIGABLE who was active for a few days in 2007, creating also Brent Brandon. My edits to the article are minor, technical, grammatical or cosmetic. By all means add significant information, if possible quoting a reference. Rich Farmbrough, 09:37, 19 June 2010 (UTC).

Removal of spacing

Hi there - I just had a look at this edit and noticed that your fixes, particularly the removal of ndash from the bottom infoboxes, have caused years to display like 1909- 1910 instead of 1909 - 1910. It's occurred on a few Premier pages... and who knows how many others. Is there an easy way you can think to fix it? Timeshift (talk) 02:26, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

If you look at the previous version of the page you will see it is exactly the same. Rich Farmbrough, 09:40, 19 June 2010 (UTC).

Help on a task

Maybe you could help me with User_talk:Magioladitis#Yobot_bug.3F? I have limited access to network till Monday. -- Magioladitis (talk) 09:53, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for your help with this task. (talk) 16:08, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

subst pagename in Gutenburg template

Hi, you recently made an edit to Monmouth Rebellion which added subst pagename to a Template = Gutenberg|no=9504. I don't understand what it was supposed to do but doesn't seem to have worked - if you look at ref 24 it includes {{Subst:PAGENAME}} at Project Gutenberg which I don't think should be there.— Rod talk 13:14, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

YesY Answered on user's talk page. Rich Farmbrough, 17:47, 19 June 2010 (UTC).


The few other recent Smackbot edits I've looked at seem fine, but this edit to DDT broke the formating in most of the references. It's been reverted. Yilloslime TC 16:06, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

That is very odd, thanks for letting me know. Rich Farmbrough, 16:08, 19 June 2010 (UTC). 16:08, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
This is a side effect of the template redirect {{...}} which I still have to deal with. I have been wasting time on other matters, unfortunately. Rich Farmbrough, 17:48, 19 June 2010 (UTC).


Thanks for the clean up at Talk:Shakespeare authorship question/sandbox draft2‎ deeply appreciated. Any criticisms of the quality of the page also would be most welcome. Best regards Nishidani (talk) 11:13, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

And thanks for the explanation. At first I thought it messed up the ref formatting and reverted, but after you did it again I discovered that I had tested the only cite without a ref. I did remove the "Untitled" title, though, to restore the page view. Tom Reedy (talk) 13:23, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Cite template cap

I'm using Cite from My Preferences option. It writes in "cite" not "Cite". So what? --Chris.urs-o (talk) 13:07, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Articles needing chemical formulas progress

Ambox warning pn.svgTemplate:Articles needing chemical formulas progress has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Thank you. Svick (talk) 20:51, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

SmackBot and Template:Infobox road

In this edit, SmackBot broke {{infobox road}} by changing "country=USA" to "country=US". The infobox uses the ISO 3166-1 alpha-3 code for countries, and that means "USA" is the correct parameter value for the United States. – TMF 01:27, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

This too. [60] --Rschen7754 01:34, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
OK, thanks. Rich Farmbrough, 01:35, 21 June 2010 (UTC).
US should now work fine. Rich Farmbrough, 01:37, 21 June 2010 (UTC).
You're missing the point, we want your bot to stop changing USA to US in {{infobox road}}. --Rschen7754 01:39, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
Yes I understand that. However making the template easier and safer to use is a good thing. Rich Farmbrough, 01:41, 21 June 2010 (UTC).
I don't understand this comment at all. The template doc page explicitly states to use the ISO 3166-1 alpha-3 code for the country parameter, with a link to said codes; doesn't get much easier than that. As for "safer"...I'm at a loss for words. There's nothing unsafe with how the infobox or its subtemplates are coded. – TMF 02:05, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
Principle of least astonishment. Rich Farmbrough, 06:32, 21 June 2010 (UTC).
Still not following. In my opinion and of the opinion of the others who have commented here, your bot's change is a solution in search of a problem. – TMF 06:52, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
Two different questions, re HCI it is best not to assume people read the documentation, if the do "the obvious thing" it should work, if they do something very odd it should fail gracefully. This isn't always possible, especially with the limits on template programming.
As far as the bot is concerned there is a long standing WP MoS for using US rather than USA, (and, apart from sporting pages for using alpha2). For that reason making the change from USA to US in most templates, where it is treated purely as a string is a Good Thing™. However it is pretty minor so there's no problem turning it off. Rich Farmbrough, 07:06, 21 June 2010 (UTC).
Reg-exs changed. Rich Farmbrough, 01:44, 21 June 2010 (UTC).
(edit conflict)Making it easier is one thing, breaking it is another. I don't know what making it safer requires or does. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ τ ¢ 01:46, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
A moments more thought than I gave it. Done. Rich Farmbrough, 01:53, 21 June 2010 (UTC).

List of tallest buildings in Springfield, Missouri

I was expanding the List of tallest buildings in Springfield, Missouri, and while I was doing that, your bot came along and caused an edit conflict (not to mention that it seems that I am always on the wrong side of an edit conflict). I didn't want to lose my changes so I saved them and now the whole article is screwed up, and I have no idea how to fix it. Would you be able to help? Thanks. Zonafan39 (talk) 04:44, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

I was able to fix the error, don't worry about it, the article is fine now. Zonafan39 (talk) 05:13, 21 June 2010 (UTC)


Check User_talk:Xeno#WPBS. Maybe we need your help. -- Magioladitis (talk) 06:30, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

Requiem (Mozart)

[61] "to this day" = "until today". not clear? cheers ;-) --FordPrefect42 (talk) 10:27, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

Okay, got that. Good point. Cheers --FordPrefect42 (talk) 10:42, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Unit-attn

Ambox warning pn.svgTemplate:Unit-attn has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Thank you. Axem Titanium (talk) 12:13, 21 June 2010 (UTC)


Re your revert of User:Gzyeah, can you comment at Template talk:Language icon#zh-hk vs. yue? I don't understand these language codes very well, but something seems to be wrong here. Thanks, cab (talk) 01:18, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

Sig migration

Hey, I was wondering if anything else happened with the migration you mentioned awhile back[62] If possible, would love it if it could be done throughout my archives, if nothing else, to make it less easy to connect the dots (though if it could also be done in my FA/GA stuff that would rock). -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 03:55, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

I did about 500 pages that needed editing for other reasons, but I saw some negative comments at WP:BOTREQ. However your archives seem unexceptional: I did a blanket replace, also did my pages. Rich Farmbrough, 15:22, 22 June 2010 (UTC).
Ah...sorry, about that, I thought the discussion had died there and hadn't seen the last replies. Do appreciate your doing the archives though. :-) -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 15:42, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

AWB help

Thanks It's actually a little unlikely that I'll get to use that rule between me finishing off all the good articles and the bot request, but I might be able to apply that in the future. Thanks again. —Justin (koavf)TCM☯ 15:57, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

The Wikipedia Signpost: 21 June 2010

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Hey Rich,, regarding this,

How am I supposed to implement this if the template is not amended? I had placed the non-English ones at WP:CFDS to rename them as well to match. Good Ol’factory (talk) 23:46, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

I saw the discussion at Template_talk:Lang#Names_of_categories. As I said there I think I'll just change the CFD close. Thx, Good Ol’factory (talk) 23:53, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
Excellent. Rich Farmbrough, 23:54, 22 June 2010 (UTC).


Hi, how can i change the title on the new template. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Xeex (talkcontribs) 12:34, 23 June 2010 (UTC)


Could you please check what happened to Template:New page and its talkpage and protection settings. Look slike a rogue admin to me. Debresser (talk) 12:49, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

Page was only semi-protected. Rich Farmbrough, 14:53, 23 June 2010 (UTC).
Xeev moved it to Moldavian Identity card and edited it, VW reverted and moved it back. Rich Farmbrough, 14:55, 23 June 2010 (UTC).

Robert Wadlow repeat vandalism

As I am not on Wiki as often as I once was, thought I should draw someone's attention to this, and saw your name in the edits, and remembered previous contact. Hopefully that is not onerous. I came upon it accidentally, settling a debate, and noted it had previously been messed with on the 21st. Respect. Seasalt (talk) 12:46, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

Problem with edits from a while back - NL infobox import (pulled from May archive)

See [63].. See the caption display? |250px|none|alt=|Location of Absdale]] - Please investigate. –xenotalk 22:12, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

I see you fixed that one article, but this occurs on all the NL infobox imports that you conducted with Smackbot, such as 't Nopeind and 't Veld. Please correct all the articles. –xenotalk 19:17, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
Cydebot fixed it I think, but I have now done the others as far as I can see. Rich Farmbrough, 07:29, 25 June 2010 (UTC).

Fic depercated paramter in cite tempalte (and GFs) using AWB

Might want to run a spell checker on your edit summary :-) ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 20:34, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

Please be careful

We warn newbies not to refactor other people's talk page comments. I have undone this edit because it completely misses the point about why those particular parameters have been used. Further, the bug which I described here still exists, so please don't replace |year=, or month/year, with |date=, unless a day is also present. --Redrose64 (talk) 21:25, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

Empty Category:User-created public domain images

Hi Rich Farmbrough, you seem to have a bot to timestamp the files in Category:User-created public domain images. Could you give it some extra botsnacks and fire it up to empty out the category? Please reply here, my watchlist works ;-) multichill (talk) 21:24, 25 June 2010 (UTC)


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Hello, Rich Farmbrough. You have new messages at Sadads's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.
Archive me. Rich Farmbrough, 17:13, 30 June 2010 (UTC).

Dummy section to test link with HTML comment in

Rich Farmbrough, 17:13, 30 June 2010 (UTC).

Programming issue with Pending changes

It was just pointed out at WT:Pending changes#Some_positive_feedback that the edit page still says "When you click Save, your changes will immediately become visible to everyone" even when Level 1 or Level 2 protection is in place. Thought you might like to have this minor glitch reported to whoever is doing the programming work for WP:PEND. Thanks Rich. ... Kenosis (talk) 19:39, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

The Wikipedia Signpost: 28 June 2010

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Smackbot issue

Hello Rich, Smackbot in this edit changed the capitalization of a section, but the capitalization is part of a proper noun and thus should not be changed. Regards, -- Jeff3000 (talk) 00:17, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Thanks I have fixed that. Rich Farmbrough, 07:31, 30 June 2010 (UTC).

SmackBot Allowable upper case in section heading

In Alexander Mitchell Palmer you changed the heading "Attorney General" to "Attorney general", which is wrong. Bmclaughlin9 (talk) 02:22, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Similarly, "Prime Minister" should always be capitalised, but the bot changed it in Feleti Sevele.-gadfium 06:42, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the notes, we don't capitalise titles of rank unless they are used in conjunctions with the name of the person, or the entity to which they apply.MoS Rich Farmbrough, 09:06, 30 June 2010 (UTC).
That is incorrect. "Attorney General", "Prime Minister", "Speaker of the House" are all correct when used as titles. Beyond My Ken (talk) 15:03, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Removal of "small" tags

I agree with most of this edit, but why remove <small> tags? They help readability by indicating levels of importance in text.  HWV258.  04:52, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

I had this logged as an AWB bug, but it looks as if the text in galleries, in Monobook, is already small. Using small tags would result in even smaller text which is not good for accessibility. I have added this example to my bug report however. Rich Farmbrough, 05:09, 30 June 2010 (UTC).

Stub removal

I noted that in this edit SmackBot removed stub tags. Removing a stub tag should be the result of a specific human evaluation of the article; what criteria is SmackBot using to remove stubs? Beyond My Ken (talk) 15:01, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

AWB removes stub tags from pages over a certain size, using a weighted algorithm that values pure text more than lists, for example. It is extremely conservative, and widely accepted, although occasionally there are queries. Generally if an article is long enough to have its stub tag removed it is not a stub, although it may still need expansion. It is normal to either expand the article or tag it with {{Expand}} if this is the case. Rich Farmbrough, 16:56, 30 June 2010 (UTC).

SmackBot - The Band/The band

Rich, I can understand why the program would do it, but SmackBot shouldn't have lower-cased the name of the musical group The Band to The band in Robbie Robertson's article. --John (User:Jwy/talk) 15:15, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Hm, that's a good one. There were 136 occurrences of "The Band" as a stand alone title, nonetheless I think I will simply have to allow them to remain in future, since the methods for marking something as an exception, such as {{Sic}} aren't really appropriate for headers, the alternative is to use a white-list, which has its own drawbacks but might be worth considering. Rich Farmbrough, 15:35, 30 June 2010 (UTC).
I presume the bot will scan the page again sometime? Maybe a version of {{Sic}} (or another template) that places a comment string the bot would recognize? Probably an outlier case, but there are probably one or two other such cases! Or even a commented template like the one I just put on the heading here? --John (User:Jwy/talk) 16:14, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
Yes it would get hit when the next database dump is complete, which is RSN (real soon now). Anything between the == delimiters can affect the section link, but HTML comments shouldn't and would be a great fix if it works. Rich Farmbrough, 16:39, 30 June 2010 (UTC).
I'll restore one of the other hits on Robbie's article to detect the scan hit it and try the commented sic on the heading. --John (User:Jwy/talk) 17:02, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
OK the links still work fine with the HTML comment, and I don't think there are accessibility issues (which is the other area where "funny" headers cause problems) so it looks great. I can force SB to run against that page after the current run is complete. Rich Farmbrough, 17:15, 30 June 2010 (UTC).
This is fine from the bot's point of view. Rich Farmbrough, 20:00, 30 June 2010 (UTC).
Cool. Good to know its an option. I'll leave it up to you whether you want to recommend it in other situations. Nice working with you. --John (User:Jwy/talk) 22:37, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

SmackBot on RuneScape

Hey Rich, we already sent you a message on runescape, but I thought I'd tell you here as well. SmackBot has been malfunctioning and was shutdown. It was adding "DUMMY" to the beginning of prices and dates. I noticed that this also happened in November of 2008. Just thought I'd tell you. CookMePlox (talk) 01:56, 1 July 2010 (UTC)


Can you please tone down Smackbot? - I appreciate that some things can be checked automatically but it appears to make a lot of 'changes' that are totally invisible in a diff. If its invisible then why bother? Some changes that it does produce can be an arbitrary matter of taste which doesn't affect the final article. The meat of any genuine change is completely lost in the dozens of irrelevant alterations. E.g. Changing sub-headings from'== xxx ==' is very subjective and irrelevant to the ultimate format. (Personally, I think spaces make it easier to read, but there is no right or wrong answer here.) Removing carriage returns and splicing together lines is irrelevant, and just makes reading the diff impossible. Sifting through hundred of these changes is the sort of infuriating trivia that deters authors Ephebi (talk) 10:35, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

Re: Smackbot and "Video music" changes

Just letting you know that Smackbot went through and changed a bunch of the musician awards lists. Section headings for the "MTV Video Music Awards" were changed to "MTV Video music Awards", which looks odd given in terms of capitalization. (For example, List of awards and nominations received by Adele, with the edit being shown here). I went ahead and "undid" the changes to a few of the awards lists that were on my watchlist, but I am not sure if other lists need to be changed back as well. --Another Believer (Talk) 17:37, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes I can find them and fix them. Thanks. Rich Farmbrough, 19:33, 30 June 2010 (UTC).
Done those. Rich Farmbrough, 18:24, 1 July 2010 (UTC).

Formula Three

Hi Rich. Can you please ask Smackbot not to change "Formula Three" to "Formula three", as it did here. Thanks. DH85868993 (talk) 13:30, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

Yes that will be done.
It probably shouldn't be doing this either. DH85868993 (talk) 13:34, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
Ah no, foolish bot believed me when I said that "Two" could always be lower-cased. We were talking about "Side two" and things like that. Will explain (to it) in more detail. Rich Farmbrough, 18:32, 1 July 2010 (UTC).
Thanks :-) DH85868993 (talk) 03:23, 2 July 2010 (UTC)


Rich, this seems badly biased--the statements of those on the flotilla slant towards admitting violence, which is not congruent with what I've read in the press....I don't have the time to edit this and then have it reverted. Sorry. Hope you're well--Beth Wellington (talk) 16:57, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

for instance, see: Wellington (talk) 17:09, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

Also, support in Israel was not monolithic, even among the military. For instance, Wellington (talk) 17:51, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

I've quickly glanced at the article, it is a bit of a mess on the level of basic sentence structure. I tweaked a couple of things. I don't think it implies that support in Israel was universal, mentioning the Knesset member who was on the flotilla, for example. From what I have understood there was extreme violence on just the one ship, and lesser amounts on the others. Of course with these types of events you get people who were there, (and often people who were not!) claiming all sorts of stuff and it takes a while to piece it together. To me it is shows that people can be extremely foolish - taking a one-year old on such a trip has to be grossly irresponsible at least. Rich Farmbrough, 18:35, 3 July 2010 (UTC).


Would you have any objections to changing this from "Flag of Connecticut.svg" to "Seal of Connecticut.svg" which is what the old PORTAL_IMG parameter was in {{WikiProject Connecticut}}? I think it adds a little visual interest to the project banner since the flag is already used as the main image. I'd do it myself, but 1) the page is protected and 2) I'd be afraid of breaking everything. Thanks.Abby Kelleyite (talk) 20:01, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

ISO 3166 code templates

I noticed you were the author of Template:ISO 3166 code, so I figured you're the person to ask: Is there any reason not to make Template:ISO 3166 code North Korea, Template:ISO 3166 code South Korea, or other such redirects? I'm using the ISO 3166 templates to make a new version of Template:Globalize at User:Closeapple/new/Globalize/testcases, in regard to the discussion at Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2010 June 21#Template:Globalize/Australia. Is there some other template I should be using instead to make names canonical? --Closeapple (talk) 19:43, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

Timeline of United States inventions (before 1890)

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This is an automated message from CorenSearchBot. I have performed a search with the contents of Timeline of United States inventions (before 1890), and it appears to be very similar to another Wikipedia page: Timeline of United States inventions. It is possible that you have accidentally duplicated contents, or made an error while creating the page— you might want to look at the pages and see if that is the case. If you are intentionally trying to rename an article, please see Help:Moving a page for instructions on how to do this without copying and pasting. If you are trying to move or copy content from one article to a different one, please see Wikipedia:Copying within Wikipedia and be sure you have acknowledged the duplication of material in an edit summary to preserve attribution history.

This message was placed automatically, and it is possible that the bot found similarity where none actually exists. If that is the case, you can remove the tag from the article and it would be appreciated if you could drop a note on the maintainer's talk page. CorenSearchBot (talk) 11:39, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

botched date ranges

just wanted to draw your attention to a botched mdy to dmy date range conversion I spotted. Now fixed. Ohconfucius ¡digame! 15:02, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

Found a few more from various people going back several years. Fixing as I go. Rich Farmbrough, 23:41, 5 July 2010 (UTC).

Splitting pages

Hi. Please remember to include a wikilink in the edit summary the next time you split an article or move content from one article to another. See WP:SPLIT and WP:CWW for more information. Theleftorium (talk) 21:05, 5 July 2010 (UTC)


This edit seems quite strange and I partially reverted it. Beagel (talk) 16:13, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

YesY Answered on user's talk page. Rich Farmbrough, 16:30, 6 July 2010 (UTC).

The Wikipedia Signpost: 5 July 2010

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Auto refresh watchlist

Hey, can you look at the conversation here and weigh in some thoughts. Sadads (talk) 17:52, 6 July 2010 (UTC)


Re this edit, what is Smackbot doing here? Mjroots (talk) 17:54, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

See BP above. Rich Farmbrough, 18:39, 6 July 2010 (UTC).
(Essentially there is a redirected template called "..." who's name needed escaping. Rich Farmbrough, 20:57, 6 July 2010 (UTC).)

Please help with this?

Rich, often at night, I go through the Category:Musicians work group articles needing infoboxes and look for those that do exist, and cross them off the list, and also add infoboxes to articles with enough information to put into them. Today, I found someone had started an article, but it's TITLE is User:Christineargue -- I'd actually begun to work on it and it's talk page before realizing how screwed up this is. Can you handle this? Figure out what the editor is trying to do, etc.? I don't feel qualified to handle anything like this. Thanks. --Leahtwosaints (talk) 03:37, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

  • I've moved it into her sandbox. Ohconfucius ¡digame! 06:32, 7 July 2010 (UTC)
    Thanks OC, - there are many user pages that are copies of/drafts of/look like articles - if I'm doing a manual fix I often fix them up, but they can be legitimately ignored, de-categorised or whatever is needed, the encyclopedia is the important bit. Rich Farmbrough, 13:56, 7 July 2010 (UTC).
    Stil not sure how you ended up on that page, Leah. Rich Farmbrough, 14:41, 7 July 2010 (UTC).


Re: this change, "Court" is always capitalized when referring to the U.S. Supreme Court ("the Court"). The header should probably be changed to "The Supreme Court's decision", but in any event lower case is incorrect. postdlf (talk) 22:53, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Yes I understand, we do not capitalise words merely because it is the practice of some other body or profession, no matter how august or venerable. Rich Farmbrough, 08:31, 8 July 2010 (UTC).

SmackBot - Baltimore Orioles

You need to "white list" or whatever you do so that "Baltimore Orioles" stays appropriately capitalized. I've reverted and marked with a commented sic (its in a heading) at Alan Wiggins. --John (User:Jwy/talk) 00:23, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

Hm, thought I had. Thanks for the note. Rich Farmbrough, 08:28, 8 July 2010 (UTC).


Hi....I took a picture of Estelle Getty's grave when I was in LA a few weeks ago. I can't figure out how to add it to the page...can you do this?

here is the link:

If you could upload this or give me instructions on how to do it myself I would appreciate it. I can make it larger if need be.

Thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 05:20, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

On the left of the screen is "toolbox", opening this should give you a link called "Upload file". Rich Farmbrough, 08:30, 8 July 2010 (UTC).

Antonio Francisco Xavier Alvares

You've added a NPOV template there without stating the dispute. In fact the article talk page is empty. IMHO these templates are rather worthless without an explanation on the talk page. --Pjacobi (talk) 13:49, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

It only takes reading the article. Even the headers are (were) adulatory "True Missionary" etc. Rich Farmbrough, 14:37, 8 July 2010 (UTC).
Or worked with dedication to spread the true faith... C'mon. Rich Farmbrough, 14:38, 8 July 2010 (UTC).
"Explicit is better than implicit"[64]. If you can't be bothered to state the problem explicitely, why should anyone be bothered to fix the article?
But, yeah, of course. I see that problem. Mostly wondering whether any specific, non-obvious, question should be added to list of problems.
--Pjacobi (talk) 10:55, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

Smackbot and orphans

hi rich, smackbot correctly flagged Euphoria Emporium as a orphan. I have linked the article to one other article, but am unsure of what other steps will appease Smackbot and convince it (him?her?) to remove the banner. Theinterior (talk) 19:43, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

Anyone can remove the tag if the problem is fixed. In this case I have done so. Rich Farmbrough, 19:52, 8 July 2010 (UTC).
There seems to be no page for the "Channel 10" mentioned. List of television stations in British Columbia does not list it as far as I can see. Rich Farmbrough, 20:05, 8 July 2010 (UTC).
Cable 10 was the public-access channel provided by Kamloops Cablevision in the 80's and 90's. After Shaw cable bought the local license, they ended the community-access program. I am unable to reference this at the moment. Theinterior (talk) 20:14, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

Benny Kalama

SmackBot just ran on Benny Kalama. Not a problem, but something interesting with the bot you might want to know. If I understand what it did, it "corrected cap in header" in the Birthdate in the infobox. The infobox changed it right back. Where that birthdate template came from is here: Template:Birth date So if it incorrectly has a cap, maybe somebody should get the template changed. If not, maybe it was just one of those things. Maile66 (talk) 21:07, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

It is not a problem. The header change was from "External Links" to "External links" - the others are just very minor things it picks up at the same time. Rich Farmbrough, 21:09, 8 July 2010 (UTC).

SmackBot heading issue

Hi Rich Farmbrough, I'd like to let you know of this edit by SmackBot. It changed ===Theatre=== to ===Theatre==, accidentally removing one equal sign at the end. XLerate (talk) 02:39, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks this happened a number of times, they should all be fixed. Any more let me know. Rich Farmbrough, 09:43, 9 July 2010 (UTC).
I'm rechecking the last 25000 edits to be sure. Rich Farmbrough, 10:04, 9 July 2010 (UTC).


Helllooooo~! I wanna have kids, but I'm afraid my fiance won't want any. What should I do? —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 02:44, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

Ask them. Rich Farmbrough, 09:44, 9 July 2010 (UTC).

Kind Pointer?

Rich--I'm looking for a a bot I can run against my personal wiki that will automatically build links. For example, if I create a new article I would like the bot to automatically scan the others and automatically wikify it by adding links in each section whenever it encounters the first occurrence of the new article. Any ideas? Thank you in advance!--P Todd (talk) 01:42, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

Depends on how many articles you will be adding, and how many pages you expect to have. If it is very few you could use AWB, otherwise your best bet is to use perl- mix in some wget if it helps. Read Special:NewPages every so often, when there's a new page open each page in succession using the perl API module you will find on CPAN. Loop through the content looking for matches. If it is a local wiki this should be fast enough for a few thousand pages to do it.
You might also look at the tool-server, there are a couple of wikification tools on there.
You need to think about what to do if you have "blah blah titanium dioxide blah blah" and you add page Titanium Dioxide.
Rich Farmbrough, 09:53, 9 July 2010 (UTC).
Awesome. Just the info I was looking for!--P Todd (talk) 22:28, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

SmackBot RFA Sir Tristram (L3505)

Smackbot has introduced a minor grammar error changing "Roll of Honour" to "Roll of honour" on RFA Sir Tristram (L3505). Its usually written in upper case as a proper noun. Regards, Justin talk 18:30, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

SmackBot incorrectly changing capitalisation of section titles

Hi Rich, I have a problem with SmackBot. It has been changing the section titles of some of the FA Cup and Football League Cup articles so that instead of "Fifth Round Proper" or "Sixth Round Proper", they read "Fifth round proper" and "Sixth round proper". First of all, this is incorrect, as The Football Association refers to the rounds as proper nouns, so the words should all be capitalised. Second, the bot has been only changing the Fifth and Sixth Round sections, leaving rounds 1-4 alone. Any idea why this is? – PeeJay 12:40, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

Oops, forgot to include an example diff: [65]PeeJay 12:42, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for the note. On the first point we follow our own manual of style, many organisations refer to things associated with themselves (primarily) with capitals, which we don't. A prime example is Nobel laureates but also endless job titles, boards, and so forth. On the second point I would imagine that rounds 1-4 are less common headers, therefore the bot hasn't yet thought about them - it works on a per heading basis but knows something about words to enable it to make some of the decisions about headings itself. Rich Farmbrough, 13:14, 9 July 2010 (UTC).
Fair enough on the MOS point, but I'm fairly sure that - as a WikiProject - WP:FOOTY agreed that we should follow The Football Association's naming style for the rounds of the FA Cup. Does that count for something? – PeeJay 13:34, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
Well, in my experience, it varies, for example the "Tree of Life" project got agreement to have italic titles for articles in certain cases (the MoS was changed), but in general projects follow MoS unless there's an outstanding reason not to. In the case of caps my opinion would be that the MoS should be followed, because there are so many areas where customary usage is confusing, and varying from the WP style, as well as damaging the overall coherence of the work, is a barrier to editing for people not expert in the project-specific rules. Rich Farmbrough, 13:22, 11 July 2010 (UTC).

Estelle Getty

Sorry but I can't figure out how to upload that Estelle Getty grave picture. Your suggestion wasn't really any help at all for someone who doesn't have an account and a good sense of knowledge working with Wiki. Please pass it to someone who can if you cannot do it yourself.. Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 05:31, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

OK, I swapped to the new interface to check but I didn't log off. You might have seen this message on the upload page.

See Wikipedia:Images for upload to request the upload of a free or fair use image available on the Internet.

This will direct you to Wikipedia:Files for upload/Wizard - if there's a problem with using this, let me know and I'll see about uploading it myself.

All the best. Rich Farmbrough, 22:13, 10 July 2010 (UTC).

SmackBot changed my references

Most the other edits on the page seemed correct, but I'm not sure why it changed the chapter numbers on my references. If this bug was fixed then disregard this message, but it seems like a pretty big deal when it's changing the references. --Kraftlos (Talk | Contrib) 10:03, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

If you look in the previous version of the page there was a reference <ref name="Vol2Ch12">{{cite book |last=Okamoto|first=Lynn|title=Elfen Lied, Volume 2|year=2002 |publisher=Shueisha |chapter=Chapter 10 |isbn=4-08-876379-3}}</ref>. Rich Farmbrough, 13:11, 11 July 2010 (UTC).
I see you fixed this, should not be a problem now. Rich Farmbrough, 13:14, 11 July 2010 (UTC).

Cambridge Meetup 8

Wikipedia:Meetup/Cambridge 8. You would be most welcome. Charles Matthews (talk) 14:04, 11 July 2010 (UTC)


hi Rich, Can you tell me how to run a script present here on perl.I have installed strawberry perl on my pc, but donot know the procedure--वार्ताबाट (talk) 00:21, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

Save the perl script locally, and from that directory run
where is the script name. Rich Farmbrough, 10:03, 9 July 2010 (UTC).

Thank you, I saved it as and then run it on command prompt by writing C:\>\strawberry\perl\bin\perl, then the following result came as cannot locate in , compilation aborted at line 25. Can you check source of these scripts at वार्ताबाट/सोर्स and वार्ताबाट/सोर्स/MediaWikiHindi and make correct them or guide me.We all are grateful to you for your help.Regards--वार्ताबाट (talk) 10:58, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

Ok it's looking for use MediaWikiHindi perl module. Let me look at what I was doing:it is simpler, but only works each time a database dump is run. Rich Farmbrough, 16:44, 9 July 2010 (UTC).

I copied that script from an older bot whicj both scripts सदस्य:Bolbalabot/सोर्स/MediaWikiHindi and सदस्य:Bolbalabot/सोर्स. this user has left wikipedia.when i run his scripts then error was shown as Message content must be byte at line 98. --वार्ताबाट (talk) 17:02, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

  • Here is the AWB script I use. [66]
  • The process is to run this on the talk-pages of new pages - it will skip any talk pages that haven't been created, so provided it is run on talk pages only it should be safe.
  • The list of new pages is generated by comparing the list from a database dump - of article names only, with a previous list.
  • The script that does this uses several utilities, and relies on the new "article-names-nz0.gz" being downloaded into the working directory. Utilities are:
    • perl (Strawberry perl you already have)
    • sed (part of cygwin)
    • grep (part of cygwin)
    • gzip
    • del (command shell)
    • dir (command shell)
  • The batch I use is [67]
  • The perl script is [68]
  • Instructions are here
While this is not as "instant" as running a full bot dynamically looking for new pages and creating talk pages, it is very simple to run and uses standard components.

Regards, Rich Farmbrough, 21:59, 10 July 2010 (UTC).

Probably want to force stuff to use UTF8 too. Actually I have had some problems with UTF8 titles using the perl module - that may be the problem you are seeing. Rich Farmbrough, 22:03, 10 July 2010 (UTC).

Thank you, but can you tell me the procedure stepwise that what should I do.I have strawberry perl installed. you have given me above scripts. but please tell me the steps in sequence now.You gave me and hindi wikipedia a lot of time, many many thanks for it.Regards--वार्ताबाट (talk) 22:24, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

OK first install WP:AWB and cygwin (and gzip). I have gzip in the AWB directory, not very tidy but you can put it there or somewhere else - maybe cygwin comes with gzip too I don't know - the batch assumes it is in AWB directory - you can easily change that.
Make a working directory, put the following files in there.

Now you are set up (provided directories are correct): Follow the instructions in readme.txt

  1. Download "all-titles-in-ns0.gz" from the to the working directory
  2. from the command line, in the working directory type "newlist"
  3. run AWB,
    1. file=>settings=>open... hindihi.xml
    2. makelist=>newtalk.txt
    3. Check it is logged in and in bot mode
    4. start.

Rich Farmbrough, 23:30, 10 July 2010 (UTC).

Thank you very much, finally it worked and double thanks for your come back to hindi wikipedia.We all are grateful to you for your humble assistance and great bot work in hindi wiki.At present time you are no 1 bot by contributions.I hope you will continue your contributions in hindi wiki. You are always welcome there.Regards--Mayurbot (talk) 15:33, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

actually I am वार्ताबाट but got bot status on mayurbot account.--Mayurbot (talk) 15:35, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Thank you!

Thank you for your Smackbot fixing my edits on the Greater Green Snake page! I am not very good at the codes and formats, so any help is appreciated. Also, I had tried to add a photo that I'd added to wikimedia, but I apparently didn't know how to do it right. Could you take a look and tell me what I did wrong, and how to not mess it up in the future? The photo is here: [69] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Reptileadventure (talkcontribs) 21:09, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

YesY Answered on user's talk page. Rich Farmbrough, 10:40, 12 July 2010 (UTC).


I closed this TFD and made a first attempt to convert it to a maintenance tag. However, the wording probably could use some improvement, as I was not entirely sure what in particular was being addressed. Thanks! Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 14:57, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Cold Spring Granite and Diamond grinding

Good afternoon - you added orphan tags to the Cold Spring Granite and Diamond grinding pages, but I'm not sure why. There are several categories at the bottom, two outside external links and several wikilinks throughout the Cold Spring Granite page and a similar amount for the other. These were both reviewed and approved by an administrator a while back before they went live after Requests for feedback was utilized. Could you please let me know what specifically you think needs changed on these pages? I understand that an orphan page means that there are few or not links coming to the page, but I thought they had enough from the previous admin's comments.

I appreciate your response and look forward to your comments and/or suggestions. Thank you in advance Wendyfables (talk) 16:25, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

YesY Answered on user's talk page. Rich Farmbrough, 21:23, 12 July 2010 (UTC).

New Hampshire Department of Justice

In the article New Hampshire Department of Justice, Smackbot is changing a heading from "Attorney General" to "Attorney general". That would be fine, except that "Attorney General" is a title. I've changed it back once, but Smackbot has found it and changed it a second time. Can you tell it to ignore this heading? Thanks. --Ken Gallager (talk) 16:35, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Yes I can, it's not what we normally do, though. MOS:CAPS#Titles of people applies. Regards, Rich Farmbrough, 19:38, 12 July 2010 (UTC).


Why did you delete 98% of the copy and images from: —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aflewis (talkcontribs) 21:12, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Well it would be about 80% and it wasn't SmackBot but User:BilCat here, his reasons are explained in the edit summary. Rich Farmbrough, 21:21, 12 July 2010 (UTC).

The Wikipedia Signpost: 12 July 2010

Read this Signpost in full · Single-page · Unsubscribe · EdwardsBot (talk) 21:19, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Sir Thomas Gates

Can you "move" (i.e. rename) the Thomas Gates page from "Thomas Gates (governor)" to simply "Sir Thomas Gates"? I am not an autoconfirmed user. Also, someone altered a few things on the page, which I just performed an "undo" on. I'm assuming these were vandal edits as Gate's name was changed to "Austin Gleitz" in the subheading. I'm posting on your talk page because you made the last accurate edit for this page. Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 22:24, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Generally we don't use "Sir" in article titles (though it seems we make an exception for certain baronets). The primary reason is that titles change over the course of a lifetime. Is there any reason to treat this article differently? Rich Farmbrough, 14:44, 14 July 2010 (UTC).


Hi Rich, I'm concerned about the use of ritual "of any kind" in the proper definition of Pragmatic Buddhism, as the organizations who apply Pragmatic Buddhism do sometimes carry out intentional practices, behavioral commitments, etc. that are virtually undifferentiable from "ritual" in a non-dogmatic definition of the term. I think the outright rejection of the term "ritual" is unnecessary, or at least unpragmatic. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Abe2008 (talkcontribs) 13:02, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Repost of List of Jewish chess players

Information.svg A tag has been placed on List of Jewish chess players requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia, because it appears to be a repost of material that was previously deleted following a deletion process. If you can indicate how it is different from the previously posted material, place the template {{hangon}} underneath the other template on the article and put a note on the page's discussion page saying why this article should stay. Administrators will look at your reasoning before deciding what to do with the page. If you believe the original discussion was unjustified, please contact the administrator who deleted the page or use deletion review instead of continuing to recreate the page. Thank you. SyG (talk) 15:19, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

SmackBot added WPBiography in a slightly wrong place

Hi, I just discovered a minor SmackBot issue, but it's from over two months ago, so I don't know if it's still relevant. (I looked through your talk page archive of that period and didn't see anything about this.) The bot added {{WPBiography}} at the top of a page which had an existing {{WikiProjectBannerShell}}. The WPBiography should go inside the WikiProjectBannerShell, especially in cases like this, where the bot's edit caused two blp banners to display. MANdARAX  XAЯAbИAM 00:44, 16 July 2010 (UTC)


Hello, it's Lolly Pop, thank you for protecting and correcting my page... <3 Merci merci! xxx —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 06:12, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

You are most welcome. Rich Farmbrough, 13:41, 17 July 2010 (UTC).

1953 New Jersey State Highway renumbering


Just wanted to let you know that at one time what is 17 was 17n and 2. I don't know how to edit the tables, so I won't try. But if you go to the NJ 17 article you'll see what route went where.

Keithdennison (talk) 15:04, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

OK, so is there sometign that needs changing? Rich Farmbrough, 16:11, 17 July 2010 (UTC).

Redirect issues

Hi there. Could you please assist me in the following issue? While trying to leave a message on the talk page of an editor, I found out that the talk page had been moved by the editor to a namespace article. I reverted the move only to have the namespace article now moved to the user talk page. I don't seem to know what exactly I did wrong, and I'd appreciate it if you could help me out here. Thank you. Amsaim (talk) 18:16, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

'tis done. Rich Farmbrough, 18:23, 17 July 2010 (UTC).
Thanks very much for your swift assistance. Where exactly was my mistake? I went to this page and clicked the 'Revert' button, with the intention of reverting the user talkpage move. Amsaim (talk) 18:25, 17 July 2010 (UTC)
Yes, all that happened is Alienmindtrick created the Broxton Rocks page on his talk page, then when he was happy with it moved it to Broxton Rocks, leaving a redirect behind (this is one occasion where the "leave redirect" shouldn't be ticked). Your revert moved it back to his talk page. After that you used the history revert and removed the templates you had added. Alienmindtrick should not have been developing an article on his talkpage, a sandbox page such as User:Alienmindtrick/sandbox would serve the purpose better, but it's not a biggie. Peopel do it al the time, or more often use their User: page. Rich Farmbrough, 18:33, 17 July 2010 (UTC).
Thank you for the information. A bit tricky these redirects if one is not used to them. I'll be more vigilant in future. Amsaim (talk) 18:40, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

The Wikipedia Signpost: 19 July 2010

Read this Signpost in full · Single-page · Unsubscribe · EdwardsBot (talk) 16:33, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

piped ISO dates

could you help out here, please? I did a database scan which returned over 500 articles potentially with piped ISO-style, botched ISO dates (like 2007, 12-8), pseudo-ISO style dates (such as 12-8-2007). I have now delinked some, and corrected non-MOSNUM compliant ones. There are perhaps a hundred articles left on my list. But I am seriously bored doing it. As you can process these in a flash, can you take over, please? Ohconfucius ¡digame! 03:32, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Minor bug

Hi, Rich! Just wanted to point out that this edit (which is one of several) is redundant as it adds an "empty section" tag to a section which is commented out anyway. Probably an easy tweak on your side; just thought you'd want to know. Also, what is the purpose of switching the order of the references? Thanks.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); July 19, 2010; 14:56 (UTC)

rev 6866 Don't tag commented out empty sections with {{empty section}}. Rjwilmsi 08:18, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
Many thanks as always. Rich Farmbrough, 17:25, 21 July 2010 (UTC).

Nomination for deletion of Template:Film title

Ambox warning pn.svgTemplate:Film title has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Thank you. —innotata 19:30, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Poker probabilities

(I prefer you reply here.)

/* Frequency of 7-card poker hands */ not probability 1/4140 but frequency 4140; rewrite to accommodate and clarify that

That is the description for the only one of my edits that seems essential. Maybe I should have left it thus, but I tweaked some other things in the 7-card sections of the article and left some suggestions on the Talk page. --P64 (talk) 21:55, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Frequency is of course correct. I was just compelled as soon as I saw 4320 to investigate and record the reason for the anomaly - all semblance of doing it in a meaningful way went out of the window. It is curious, not only arithmetically, but from the point of view of poker hands, the highest ranking hand is actually more common than the second highest (King high straight flush) - more, the source for the section IIRC, explains the apparent anomaly of their being more pair hands than the lesser valued X-high hands, but not the one at the top of the table. Rich Farmbrough, 00:34, 21 July 2010 (UTC).

SmackBot continuously making very small adjustments

I wonder if having adjustments like this, i.e changing {{cn}} to {{Citation needed|date=July 2010}}, a few hours after I had put the tag, with no visible effects on the page, and clogging the page history, is of any utility. In a few days, I will remove the tag (and also the phrase, if I do not see a reliable citation).

But it is not only your bot to do this: there is an intense traffic of any type of bots (adding ukrainian or vietnamese language, or adding ISBN, or modifying references in some other subtle way, or applying "general fixes") which have made the page histories unreadable. For me it is often difficult and time-consuming to discover who and why has written what.

I think there should a policy which limits small bot editings. For example one could propose: look for the fixes to be done, put them in a database, and apply them once a month, in a unique big editing, so to avoid the dozens of items we see on the histories. I don't know to whom this proposal can be told, so I am telling it to you.

Thanks--GianniG46 (talk) 13:27, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

P.S. I am leaving for a vacation this evening, so I will not be on line for a dozen of days.--GianniG46 (talk) 13:27, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

This edit categorised the article based on the date the unsourced statement was spotted. This isn't a useless edit. -- Magioladitis (talk) 14:06, 21 July 2010 (UTC)


Template name casing

Richard, please stop changing[70] the capitalisation of Template names. I remember seeing this raised on your Talk page months ago by other people, and IIRC it stopped for a while. The change adds nothing to articles, and instead makes template entries harder to read. Thank you —Sladen (talk) 13:57, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

I can pull Stnlnk from the list of stuff SB knows about. Rich Farmbrough, 15:50, 21 July 2010 (UTC).
Plus {{s-start}} and {{reflist}} please. Thank you. —Sladen (talk) 17:32, 21 July 2010 (UTC)


I notice you moved this, and I think I know why: it's being used in the mainspace. It's not supposed to be - it should be replaced with {{cladogram}} in most instances, which largely duplicates the formatting and has a far more professional name.

FWIW after an RM reversed one of the moves, I undid them all. If this were to be spacified (though I don't see a need), it would be "userbox top", but I think that's even more confusing.

Let me know if you're interested in replacing the mainspace uses, otherwise I'll probably have a go at it. –xenotalk 03:15, 21 July 2010 (UTC) [do note there are a few other assorted uses, but not sure if there's enough to make another mainspace template, or if a suitable one exists]

Cladogram is good in those instances. If the functionality is simply to be a box top, then it should be called "Box top". The documentation says "This template is not just for userboxes; it is also an efficient way of creating a column of images to run along the side of an article." I don't know where the made-up word "userbox" comes from, but I'm not really worried about it being used in template names for user-space, although "user box" seems better. Rich Farmbrough, 11:21, 21 July 2010 (UTC).
Incidentally "userboxside" was ubxside (something to do with unexploded bombs no doubt) - and is partially documented as such since the reverts. Rich Farmbrough, 11:23, 21 July 2010 (UTC).
You say " creates more problems than it solves" what problems are these? Rich Farmbrough, 11:46, 21 July 2010 (UTC).
The major problem is that they are userboxes (or userboxen, if you please), a single instance being a userbox. The fully-protected double redirects that didn't get fixed were another problem. In any case, I don't think it should be used in mainspace, neither "boxtop", "boxboxtop", nor "userboxtop". Surely we can come up with a better name for something that is going to be used in articles. Such that 'userboxtop' should only be used in userspace, there is no need for pedantic application of a manual of style. –xenotalk 12:29, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
"Box top" seems descriptive to me, and understandable to all. If people want "Foobarbazboxtop" on their user pages, then it is not making editing content harder, however it does perpetuate the letsrunallthewordstogether style of naming. Rich Farmbrough, 13:11, 21 July 2010 (UTC).
Hm.. And do you think it's fine for a template originally designed to be used on user pages to also be used in articles? [Would this one day present a conflict whereby some change was needed to affect articles but was undesirably for userpages? Probably not, and namespace switches could be used, I guess] Perhaps we should file an WP:RM to move "userboxtop" to simply "box top"? –xenotalk 13:37, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
Sounds good. Or split the functionality - there's CSS in there (I'm inclined to say CSS junk, because as far as I can see all it allows you to do is suppress userboxes - which is very limited utility). But certainly templates starting with "User..." seem out of place in articles. Rich Farmbrough, 19:18, 21 July 2010 (UTC).
Ah yes, good point. class="userboxes"... So either that code should go (because then we'd have userspacey-stuff in our HTML source) or it should be forked. I favour forking. –xenotalk 21:04, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
A forking good idea. Rich Farmbrough, 21:46, 21 July 2010 (UTC).

Usless editing with AWB

Hi Rich. "Houston we have a problem..."

To begin with, this editor [71] is using AWB for multiples and multiples of trivial edits here [72]. This user did the same with WP Journals changing a large number to Wikiproject Academic Journals. Prior to this, and at the same time, if you view this person's talk page, there is recently - one section after another - editors are telling this user that his edits are insignifigant, or are causing a problem and to please stop. Instead of taking the constructive critism he just refuses to quit, and moves on to some other uselsess massive editing effort with this bot. I think an Admin needs to step in here. Also all the useless editing of the past week probably needs to be rolled back. I just left this same message with Materialscientist. Thanks----Steve Quinn (talk) 13:26, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

While I agree that Mag has been doing an awful lot of trivial edits (and should stop), rolling them back seems rather counter-intuitive. –xenotalk 13:34, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
Rolling back edits that just bypassed template redirects doesn't help anybody, and would be a waste of admin time IMHO. Rjwilmsi 13:51, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
Sorry, I don't know what this means "just bypassed template redirects". In addition, it appears that this type of editing has been going on for the last month, and changing BD, and WPBS templates for some reason is another example. Sorry, but I think rolling back all these edits is best (imho). ----Steve Quinn (talk) 14:02, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
What possible benefit would be had with rolling them back? They've already been done, they are now using non-redirected forms of the template. I agree that running AWB only to bypass redirects is inappropriate, but once it's already been done, rolling them back to restore the redirects would be just as wasteful. –xenotalk 14:04, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
  • On BD: There is a consensus in replacing this template. It's an approved task based on discussion in Template talk:Lifetime. Same goes for Lifetime.
  • For the rest of templates: It's certainly something nobody should be doing in regular basis. Check my talk page and User talk:Yobot for answers. -- Magioladitis (talk) 14:10, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Seems consensus here:

  1. BD and lifetime are very few and should be substed. Extensive discussion occurred over these.
  2. Mag will try to avoid redirect-bypass only edits with Yobot - he has a method for doing that.
  3. Rollback doesn't really help much, if at all (essentially it's a deliberately inserting a redirect).

Suggest any further discussion at User talk:Magioladitis - I will try to be around, but can be prodded if you want my comments. Rich Farmbrough, 16:13, 21 July 2010 (UTC).

Just a quick reply to xeno - yes, you are correct. Rolling all these edits back would be unnecessarily time consuming, and a waste of resources. I think I was responding in the heat of the moment. So, nevermind...----Steve Quinn (talk) 21:37, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Mass removal of italic titles

No one else has asked about this, so I will. Why are biologists entitled to have Begonia × tuberhybrida correctly italicized, but students of literature are not entitled to have titles of books correctly italicized? Does whatever discussion preceded this really rise to the level of Wikipedia policy, or can't expert subject editors be granted some judgement in the matter? P.S. I realize that this is possibly a brand-new feature of AWB, which you just happen to be the first to make widely effective; but even then I can't figure out how and where the decision was taken to start moving against the standards of well-edited English now. If the answer is last year's discussion here, I'd like to find out if the discussion can be had anew in a better forum where a wider range of informed editors can contribute (because the idea that biology may follow the conventions of published English while literature may not is bizarrely inconsistent). Wareh (talk) 14:58, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Yes that was the discussion. Subsequent to that italics have started to be applied in a peicemeal fashion - as predicted by the doomsayers at the time, to be fair. Possibly if the tempalte had been called "Taxon title" this wouldn't have happened. I have removed a bunch of miscellaneous examples today and yesterday (after the TfD for {{Film title}}), but seeing the back-door addition (not meant in a conspiritorialist way) of journals to the MoS was going to start a fresh centralised discussion. If you could do that it would be great. You will see the probable places it should be advertised at or soon after the previous discussion. The main users of {{Italic title}} at the moment, apart form taxa, are comics (1600) journals (~2000) and a relatively few books, albums etc. Rich Farmbrough, 16:02, 21 July 2010 (UTC).
Thanks for this reply. I would like to promote a new & centralized discussion, despite my limited experience with such things. Could you please suggest the best places to conduct and advertise such a discussion? Wareh (talk) 16:54, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
The same location might be best. Many of the more heavily visited places archive every day or few days. There is some help at WP:CD: I would think add to {{Cent}} list at Wikipedia:Requests for comment, mention at village pump, the Literature/Novels, Academic Journals, Comics and maybe Albums and Film projects. Rich Farmbrough, 17:24, 21 July 2010 (UTC).
Thanks, those are exactly the kinds of pointers I hoped you might be able to give. Wareh (talk) 18:52, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Raising edit conflicts

It happened a few times that during a series of edits this bot got in an caused a edit conflict message. Maybe it should be set so that it kicks in only a few minutes, maybe an hour, after there has been no edit to the article.Sum (talk) 18:34, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Hmm, that would be a little tricky. It's the first time anyone has mentioned an edit conflict that I recall, but it must happen I suppose. Rich Farmbrough, 18:49, 21 July 2010 (UTC).


Ur my hero —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 01:26, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

Request for comment

Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/Yobot 16 -- Magioladitis (talk) 12:32, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

SmackBot and Infobox road, part two

SmackBot messed with the country parameter again here. – TMF 15:31, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

Yes, can you please teach your bot to ignore the country parameter in {{infobox road}}? Thanks. Imzadi 1979  20:55, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

Code for Article alert bot

Good day to you good sir I have another question today in regards to a bot. There has been some interest in started up the Alertbot bot again but it seems when the creator and maintainer (I meant to do that by the way) left WP they took the code with them. Is there any way to view this code on the tool server so we can get this bot running again? If we can locate the code I would be glad to take up the torch of monitoring and sort of leading it but I would need help from yourself or one of the other programmers in order to actually do the maintenance of the thing if bugs come up or it breaks. --Kumioko (talk) 18:26, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

Unfortunately I don't have a tool-server account, so there's not a lot I can do there until and unless I get one. Rich Farmbrough, 18:34, 22 July 2010 (UTC).
Oh ok, I didn't know that. I think xeno runs a bot Ill ask them, thanks. --Kumioko (talk)

Scout templates

Pls see User_talk:Gadget850#Scout_template_moves RlevseTalk 23:32, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

Was there any discussion of this or did you just do it? We've had those names for like 5 years. Where does it say what you did is the standard? RlevseTalk 00:07, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
Yes it has been around since 2008, Wikipedia:Banner standardisation, this name format is in use by the vast majority of project banners. Rich Farmbrough, 00:23, 23 July 2010 (UTC).
You didn't answer the first question. The fact that no one tried to do this for two years tells me it's rather a dormant issue. I don't mind the standardization but with it laying unworked for two years the absolute least you should have done is notify the projects. And the fact that link is an essay not a policy or guideline makes it even more problematic. RlevseTalk 00:50, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
Some info that may help: Recently, editors xeno and WOSlinker did a lot of job further categorising WikiProject templates. After the wide use of WikiProjectBannerShell we would like to have a way to easily identify WikiProject banners in order to update them/clean them/etc. Rich, xeno, me and probably others did a lot in this direction the last days. -- Magioladitis (talk) 06:55, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
That's all fine but it's basically a few editors getting together and deciding to change hundreds of project templates around without any of them being notified; leaving people like me seeing 6 edits by Rich doing and leaving us wondering WTF? . RlevseTalk 11:41, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
As page moves are easily undone, I don't think they should be viewed as any more controversial than making other edits to the template. We can follow WP:BOLD here - if you actually disgaree with the move then just revert it and it can be discussed. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 12:06, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
We can also follow common sense here and let projects know what's going on instead of blindsiding them. Since none of you seem to realize nor care, you create work for the projects when you do this too. RlevseTalk 12:16, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

General template question

Sorry to bother you with this but it seems that the list of folks who are good at template creation is pretty short, and your on the top, sorry :-) Anyway, I have thought for a while that certain "link" templates lacked substance and should be expanded. These include the {{findagrave}}, {{hallofvalor}}, {{imdb}} and others. Typically when these are created by users they say something to the effect of "Mons Monssen at Find a Grave Retrieved on 2008-10-29", see Mons Monssen for an example. I think that this template should allow and display more of the fields of the citation template. It seems the general format for these references are fundamentally the same containing a source, title, url, date, accessdate and author. I was thinking that creating a generic template for these might be appropriate and thought that using something like {{Include-USGov}} as a baseline seemed appropriate with the other templates using that code as the base. Of course it wouldn't include the wording of in the public domain and all that but I wanted to ask your opinion anyway. Do you think this is a worthwhile change or am I just wasting my time trying to change these links? --Kumioko (talk) 19:12, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

I would suggest simply using "cite web" within with all its flaws.
Rich Farmbrough, 21:27, 21 July 2010 (UTC).
I implemented it with the accessdate parameter, extending it to other parameters as needed should be easy. Rich Farmbrough, 21:31, 21 July 2010 (UTC).
Thanks, I didnt mean for you to have to do it but thanks all the same. --Kumioko (talk) 00:09, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
It's no problem, the point is to show how easy it is. A chance for you to do the same to the other templates if you think it wise. Don't forget to test in a sandbox! Rich Farmbrough, 00:48, 22 July 2010 (UTC).
I will thanks. --Kumioko (talk) 01:17, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
Thanks again, I used similar logic for the {{Hallofvalor}} template and I think its much improved. Do you think it would be possible to make a couple chanegs to the find a grave template? I would like to add author, work, date and accessdate as additional parameters and I would like to modify the parameter that says title=Rich Farmbrough/Talk Archive Mega2 at Find a Grave to this: title=Rich Farmbrough/Talk Archive Mega2 |publisher= Find a Grave. I do not have admin rights to do it myself and I completely understand if you want to put it in the sanbdbox and query the community via the template talk page to see how everyone feels. Since it basically follows the Cite web template and the parameters are optional I don't personally think thats needed though. If you do decide that this is a worthwhile change let me know when its done and Ill go and update the documentation to reflect these new parameters. Thanks again for the help. --Kumioko (talk) 21:47, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
I also just found something else thats rather strange. It appears that {{Congbio}} has logic in it that links it to the data input on the find a grave reference template. So if the data in the findagrave ref is changed the congbio info changes as well. I personally think that this logic should be removed but if not then the logic for congbio would (and probably should anyway) need to be updated as well. Sorry this seems to be so much more work than I thought and I didnt intend to push it onto you. --Kumioko (talk) 22:10, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── I went and made the changes to the Find a Grave template in the templates sandbox. I don't have rights to move it over though. The logic for the Congbio template is much more complicated, but I am going to go and change that in its sandbox as well. --Kumioko (talk) 12:53, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

OK, I'll check out the sandbox. I changed Congbio to support the accessdate via Find a Grave - but it does seem a little tortuous not to just use the two component templates. Rich Farmbrough, 15:27, 23 July 2010 (UTC).
SilkTork put the Find a Grave sandbox live. Rich Farmbrough, 18:55, 23 July 2010 (UTC).

Response to Template:Template: burning bright

I'm not sure what you are asking. Do you want me to move the pages to a different name?Philipmj24 (talk) 17:31, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

I was going to move them. Thanks anyways!Philipmj24 (talk) 18:46, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

gymnastics request

Please start an alexandra raisman page. I can build it, but not start page. A quick google will get a few real sources. She is an elite gymnasts on the national team, placed in several international and national meets. Trains with Alicia. Just start and I will build. Or build whole thing if you want. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 01:43, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

WikiProject The Beatles template

Just wondering if you could fix the template move for {{WikiProject The Beatles,}} as you've put a comma on the end of the name. You will also see that the template name without the comma redirects to a banner for userpages and it is in use on a few page (see [73]) so they will need changing first. -- WOSlinker (talk) 09:12, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

Fixed. -- Magioladitis (talk) 09:17, 24 July 2010 (UTC)


Dear Rich, with all due respect, it would be nice if you could read the changes suggested by your bot prior to committing them. I've just been reading the "Component-based software engineering" which is cluttered with tags from your bot all over. The fact that your bot's tags annoyed me enough to be writing this should give enough of a clue.  :-)

While a few of the tags are correct (for example, marking "some say" as weasel word), the majority of them is just utter nonsense and in all honesty a major annoyance when reading the article.

When reading through the article, one does not get the impression that these are actually helpful in increasing the quality of the article, but they look much more like a self-important person being, well, self-important. You could avoid that impression if you were checking your bot's modifications.

For example, two citation tags on the principles of OOP which are explained to show the contrast to CBSE is just ridiculous. Not only is that paragraph stating a well-known fact (see "Paris is the capital of France does not need a citation") in a well understandable and conclusive way, but there are also sufficient citations in the linked-to Wiki entries, if one really wanted to be pedantic about having as many citations as possible. The same is true about three who/weasel-word tags in the following paragraphs. While the inserted tags are technically correct, it would be much better to slightly change the wording of the otherwise perfectly correct paragraphs so they formally comply with the Wikipedia NPOV rules (Note: I am not the author of that page, just some random guy who came to read it). —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 12:30, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

Hi, thanks for your message, SmackBot does not generally add tags, but merely dates those that are already there. Regards, Rich Farmbrough, 13:51, 24 July 2010 (UTC).


Although your still recent edit to Philomena was only a cleanup, I wonder if you would be so good as to look at what in practice has there unfortunately grown into an edit war (which for that reason I do not wish to continue) between me and a single-purpose editor who sometimes logs in as Merk1333 and at other times edits unlogged from Garland, Texas (obviously the same person). I have tried to engage the editor on the Talk page, so far without success. Can you either intervene yourself or advise me on how to proceed? Thanks for your attention. Esoglou (talk) 19:49, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

Some kind of a conversation has begun on the Talk page. It does not look very promising yet, but perhaps we can work it out. Esoglou (talk) 20:41, 24 July 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for helping. I have raised the problem here. Esoglou (talk) 07:30, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

reqphoto rename

I don't understand the recent rename of {{reqphoto}} to {{request photo}}. I can't find a template naming guideline to govern this situation, and there has been no discussion on the talk page for this template or any of the other image request templates on my watchlist. Can you help? Thanks. Tim Pierce (talk) 04:38, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

(talk page stalker)There is no template naming guideline (perhaps there should be) but there is a fairly long-standing precedent for using clear names for templates and avoiding abbreviations where possible. (One reason is that it makes it easier to see the purpose of a template when looking at the code.) Note that the previous name will continue to work as before and remain as a redirect indefinitely. However if you disagree with this move you are free to request its revert and participate in a discussion. Personally I would voice support for the move. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 08:25, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
Actually a discussion might be a good idea because there may be better names, e.g. {{requested photo}} or {{photo requested}} or even {{image requested}}. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 08:27, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
Even better might be {{Image needed}}. Rich Farmbrough, 11:05, 25 July 2010 (UTC).
I agree that {{image requested}} would probably be a better name than {{reqphoto}}. But this template is in use on 75,000 pages. I was under the impression that editors were supposed to propose changes before acting boldly on such a widely used and prominent template, but maybe I was mistaken about what constitutes "widely used." Adding redirects to this template will also require recoding PhotoCatBot, so if there's going to be a rename I would prefer to minimize the number of gratuitous redirects. Tim Pierce (talk) 13:10, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
This is already one of the most redirected-to templates! I have put a comment on Template talk:Request photo earlier, maybe the other template talk pages in the family should have a link dropped to them. Rich Farmbrough, 14:45, 25 July 2010 (UTC).

Air Force Portal Administrator

I am looking for an editor or editors to take over administration of the US Air Force Portal. If you think you might be interested please see the Portal Administration section on the talk page to see what is involved and comment there if you’re interested or have any questions.Ndunruh (talk) 17:17, 25 July 2010 (UTC)


Er, "Template:WikiProjec Record Labels Task Force,"? --Redrose64 (talk) 18:03, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

You are quick - but it's sorted. Rich Farmbrough, 18:06, 25 July 2010 (UTC).

WikiProject Meteorology and Weather Events

All sub-projects of WikiProject Meteorology and Weather Events would be better handled as paramaters into a main template and not with separate templates, don't you think so?

Yes, there are three two of interest. Adding the taskforces would be good, I think, but I'm not against renaming the templates in the meanwhile. Rich Farmbrough, 22:10, 25 July 2010 (UTC).
Do whatever you find best. If possible contact WikiProject Meteorology and Weather Events. -- Magioladitis (talk) 22:15, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

I guess the 4-5 tram templates could also merge to one. -- Magioladitis (talk) 23:47, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

They are wrappers, they do no harm. Rich Farmbrough, 00:01, 26 July 2010 (UTC).
Need to update Wikipedia:WikiProject UK Trams/Banners with the new names. -- Magioladitis (talk) 00:20, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

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Thank's for Ally and may I have another?

Sacramone page needs an update to reflect Cover Girl classics breakout performance: —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 04:50, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

You can edit that page I believe? Rich Farmbrough, 14:17, 27 July 2010 (UTC).
No, I can't. It's silver-locked.  :( —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 20:03, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
Should be unlocked now. Rich Farmbrough, 22:31, 27 July 2010 (UTC).


I modified {{Congbio}} in its sandbox and left a comment on the talk page. Please let me know what you thoughts are on the changes I made! --Kumioko (talk) 15:09, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Unused Templates

Templates you have included in Wikipedia:Templates with names differing only in capitalization; Template:Infobox Station Begin, Template:Infobox station begin, Template:Infobox Station Example, Template:Infobox station example, Template:Infobox Station Header, Template:Infobox station header, Template:Infobox Station Main, Template:Infobox station main, Template:Infobox Station Services and Template:Infobox station services, have been marked for deletion as a deprecated and orphaned templates. If, after 14 days, there has been no objection, the templates will be deleted. If you wish to object to their deletion, please list your objection here and feel free to remove the {{deprecated}} tag from the template. If you feel the deletion is appropriate, no further action is necessary. Thanks for your attention. Secondarywaltz (talk) 01:30, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

I 've been working with WikiProject banners for a while. First step in order to create a good function for working with WikiProject banners is that we can easily identify them. Recently I noticed that more people are working on that. Check Category:WikiProject banners with non-standard names and Wikipedia:Banner standardisation/data maintained by xeno and WOSlinker. I think almost all banners can be moved to WikiProject xxx scheme. Exception for me is WPBiography (with 600k+ transclusions and it will be a huge mistake to move it) and some others highly visible templates. -- Magioladitis (talk) 21:16, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Well we eschew camel case everywhere else, and the capitalisation is not following the standard for everything except portals and projects. Thing is even if we moved WPBiography with 600k transclusions, it doesn't mean we need to rename every use proactively, the redirect will be cached and cost next to nothing in page rendering. A couple of listas runs and 10% would be moved. Those active in the project could have a little javascript to change the template name on pages they edit - in five years, unless we dump the whole project infrastructure by then, which is not impossible, I bet most of them would have been moved. Rich Farmbrough, 21:40, 21 July 2010 (UTC).
Better leave WPBiography as is. It's well known with this name. -- Magioladitis (talk) 12:40, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
I don't have a strong opinion about it but you might want to leave WPMILHIST as well. Its another one that hits a lot of articles and is well known. --Kumioko (talk) 13:06, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

Can you be more careful when moving these templates? Some of those that you have moved today rely on /class and/or /importance subpages which have not been moved over, causing the templates to break. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 18:49, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

Got it. Do I need to revist any? Rich Farmbrough, 19:24, 22 July 2010 (UTC).
All class and importance pages sorted. Rich Farmbrough, 19:54, 22 July 2010 (UTC).
If this is more disruptive editing, perhaps this needs to stop right now until Wikiprojects can be alerted, and consensus can be taken. This is what yesterday's discussion was about. I did not see widespread support over a time period of months for what was happening. It is only fair and common courtesy that concerned Wikiprojects have a chance to voice their concerns and opinions. Should I alert some Wikiprojects that I work with? Where is the consensus for this action? What are the results of this action? ----Steve Quinn (talk) 19:25, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
No it's not disruptive, mainly it concerned inactive wikiprojects. Rich Farmbrough, 19:54, 22 July 2010 (UTC).
It's also not quite what was discussed yesterday (at least not if we're thinking of the same discussion). Yesterday, Magioladitis was bypassing redirects for templates that had already been moved to another location. This is about Rich moving templates to a normalized/standard form, see wp:standardize for more information on this. –xenotalk 19:56, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
OK thanks for the information. ----Steve Quinn (talk) 20:02, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
I apologize for my alarmed response, above. ----Steve Quinn (talk) 23:59, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
  • I don't understand why UKTrams has like 5 banners. –xenotalk 18:43, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
Proably would be better as task forces? Rich Farmbrough, 18:45, 23 July 2010 (UTC).
That was my thought. Set it up as a task force in the main template and then convert the others into wrappers. –xenotalk 18:47, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

FYI, I have reverted your move of Template:WPAFC-admin->Template:WikiProject Articles for Creation. The problem is that we have a separate template at Template:WikiProject Articles for creation and it would be too confusing to have separate templates with different capitalisations. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 07:45, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks I saw that, and agree - one of my bugbears is templates that differ by capitalisation only. Rich Farmbrough, 22:22, 26 July 2010 (UTC).

This is incredible! Thank you. Are you planning to update it now that most of them have been standardized? [I'm also curious how you generated that list] –xenotalk 04:06, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Yes I will update it when they are done. I use some pre-API perl that generates redirect consolidation for SmackBot - doing it manually became infeasible some time ago. Rich Farmbrough, 22:14, 26 July 2010 (UTC).
I'm planning on commencing another shelling run sometime soon, so an update would be greatly appreciated =) –xenotalk 00:34, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
Will do soonish. Incidentally re the above see Wikipedia:Templates with names differing only in capitalization. Rich Farmbrough, 14:18, 1 August 2010 (UTC).


I don't understand this system. I have started several small articles as a consequence of correcting an error in one other and discovering place names mentioned did not link. All the information I have added is within my personal knowledge and the articles I have started can be easily verified however I do not have the time or the expertise so to do it. Having started the articles it is my hope that those with better knowledge and/or time will add to them and make even better links than have been done already to articles about other places in Essex. If those articles are automatically removed even the small correct information I have provided will not be available to researchers from afar who will even now currently be assisted by the links I have provided. The article I amended was Messing Maypole Mill and the ones I started were Salcott cum Virley, Inworth, Layer Marney and Great Wigborough which is adjacent to Little Wigborough at which point I gave up!Stranger on the shore (talk) 08:43, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

YesY Answered on user's talk page. Rich Farmbrough, 14:08, 1 August 2010 (UTC).

Speedy deletion of Template:Fact-now

A tag has been placed on Template:Fact-now requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section T3 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a deprecated or orphaned template. After seven days, if it is still unused and the speedy deletion tag has not been removed, the template will be deleted.

If the template is intended to be substituted, please feel free to remove the speedy deletion tag and please consider putting a note on the template's page indicating that it is substituted so as to avoid any future mistakes (<noinclude>{{transclusionless}}</noinclude>).

Thanks. Axem Titanium (talk) 10:57, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Since it's a subst: template (albeit one I don't like) I have removed the speedy notice. Rich Farmbrough, 19:50, 2 August 2010 (UTC).

SmackBot and infobox road

Two edits screwed up the display of the infobox, [74] and [75]. In the former, it broke the display of the auxiliary route information, and in both cases it reverted the color of the infobox headers to the default blue from the US/Canadian green. Can you please, please, PLEASE program SmackBot to ignore |country=USA in the {{infobox road}} code. Consensus in revamping the template over a month ago was to use the ISO 3166-1 alpha-3 codes for each country because as that article states so well, "they allow a better visual association between the codes and the country names than the two-letter alpha-2 codes." That way we would only need to set up support for one code for each country in the new subtemplates instead of creating redirects for each of the 6 or so subtemplates for each country from multiple input values. In the past we had users inputing various different abbreviations and even full country names. Now, please, this is the third time I've asked you, but |country=USA is the correct coding for this template and it should not be changed. Such automatic bot changes are starting to smack of unintentional vandalism when I have to fix articles to clear them back out of the error categories. Imzadi 1979  11:02, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Yes sure I'll take care of it. Rich Farmbrough, 11:44, 2 August 2010 (UTC).
Thanks. Imzadi 1979  18:16, 2 August 2010 (UTC)


Hi. I have expanded the article on Meonstoke. However, as I am new to this game, I thought I’d contact people who have contributed to the article as it now stands before I change it. My proposed version is on my user talk page. If you are interested, I’d welcome any comment, changes, suggestions. Thanks Gramorak (talk) gramorak 12:00, 2 August 2010 (UTC)


Rich, Can I just give you a nudge on this request for piped ISO dates, please? Cheers, Ohconfucius ¡digame! 18:34, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

The Wikipedia Signpost: 2 August 2010

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Hey, Smackbot is making a mistake with the multiple issues tag, see . It should be "unreferenced=August 2010", not "unreferenced date=August 2010"... Maashatra11 (talk) 18:43, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

YesY Answered on user's talk page. Rich Farmbrough, 19:43, 3 August 2010 (UTC).

Infobox standarisation

I am trying to standarise Infoboxes based on the entries of Infobox person and Infobox officeholder which have the most of transclusions. I made a list in User:Magioladitis/Sandbox.

First aim should be that all infoboxes support birth_date / death_date even in addition to the already existing parameter.

Standarisation will enable us to use this fields for adding human categories via AWB. -- Magioladitis (talk) 00:42, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

I'm all in favour of standardisation but we don't need to force all of them to use the same field names – AWB already has "yearofbirth", "dateofbirth", "born", "birth date", "birthdate", "birth_date", "birth". Rjwilmsi 15:46, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
Also space is preferable to _, as used in template names, categories, files, etc. Rich Farmbrough, 15:56, 3 August 2010 (UTC).
Another idea I would be then to see which ones are not needed, if any. -- Magioladitis (talk) 18:21, 3 August 2010 (UTC)


I am puzzling over a minor edit to DEFAULTSORT on a page here. The bot changed:

{{DEFAULTSORT:Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy as International Phenomenon}}


{{DEFAULTSORT:Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy As International Phenomenon}}

I don't see that this edit achieves anything. (Also, if I change it back, will SmackBot fight me?) Please respond here. HairyWombat 04:33, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

This edit capitalised a letter in the title. This is exactly what it was supposed to happen. First letters of all words must be capitalised in DEFAULTSORT. -- Magioladitis (talk) 08:20, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
Changing the capitalization of the sixth word in anything as an aid to sorting is a little bit overly rigorous especially when there are so many articles that lack any value for {{DEFAULTSORT}} but need one. Quibbling over the change may indicate a deeper problem. Just saying. JimCubb (talk) 15:54, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
Sure but since it is happening at the same time as another edit, I wouldn't feel inclined to ask the developers to put an arbitrary cut-off at any particular point. And of course HHGTTG is one compound noun. Rich Farmbrough, 16:01, 4 August 2010 (UTC).
SmackBot will only "fight" you if it happens to visit the page again. The question is, why would you want to put it back? It only affects the sort order, not how the name is displayed in categories. Rich Farmbrough, 16:01, 4 August 2010 (UTC).
I wasn't aware of the requirement that the first letter of each word be capitalized. Nice one, SmackBot. HairyWombat 16:15, 4 August 2010 (UTC)



i was wondering about the change in the meaning of the name since the previous meaning was there for a long time....

thank you! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Onoufrios d (talkcontribs) 17:17, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

The editor that made the change commented on the talk page: Rich Farmbrough, 18:10, 7 August 2010 (UTC).

Regular expression question

If, in AWB in my Advanced find and replace, I want to find out in the "if" if an article with Infobox book contained the phrase variable and input "country = United States" how would I write that in regex? Regex is blowing my mind right now, don't really understand how it works. Sadads (talk) 06:13, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

\bcountry\s*=\s*\[\[United +States\]\] would probably cover what you want, maybe \|\s*country\s*=\s*\[\[United +States\]\] which avoids stuff like "second county =" but will need to be tested to check behaviour when split across lines. Rich Farmbrough, 14:18, 8 August 2010 (UTC).
Thank you very much, we are currently trying to populate the subcategories of American novels, and the best way I can figure to find actual populate it would to find all the novels which have country as United States and add them to the main category then sort them out from there. That is huge help, I think I can read that and should be able to duplicate the same idea in the future.Sadads (talk) 14:25, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

RE: Template talk:Request photo#Best name for this template/these templates

You have edited a protects page without consolation or notification. Could you please undo this move and return to original {{reqphoto}} name until a consensus has been reached.--Traveler100 (talk) 05:27, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

I thought there was general agreement that Template:image requested was the most appropriate. In which case, shall we just move it there rather than reverting, having another discussion and then moving it there? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 07:56, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
Yes please make the move to the consensus name. Rich Farmbrough, 12:03, 10 August 2010 (UTC).

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trevor guthrie

hi , this is trevor guthrie.... not sure if you are the one to talk to, but i want this whole page completely revamped. we can skype an talk about it if you are able to fix it. thankyou

—Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 23:27, 5 August 2010 (UTC) 

hi , this is trevor guthrie.... please contact me to talk about my page....we can skype over webcam

oh yeah, sorry, we can start with an old email to contact me.

trevgdogg (at) —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 23:31, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

Hi Trevor, Best thing you can do for the page is upload a public domain picture of yourself. Any other information you think should be included can be mentioned on the talk page Talk:Trevor Guthrie. If possible include a reference to a third party source. Rich Farmbrough, 10:55, 7 August 2010 (

thankyou for your response. i am not interested in uploading a picture of myself on wikipedia. the problemr Rich, is that the so called facts about me are written by fans dont realy have the facts.I dont like people writing things about be that are not true or inaccurate. they are just assumed correct. this is starting to cause problems for my career as well as my personal life. and i dont like discussing it here because everyone can read this. this is why i suggested we talk via email. sincerely Trevor Guthrie

  • I think it would be most helpful if you give us the weblinks to articles from established journalists or writers (or you could send scans of press articles to Rich) which have the correct facts. That would enable us to ensure that correct information is used in your biography. We can certainly remove anything which is not properly sourced, as is our requirement. Ohconfucius ¡digame! 09:07, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

Appropriate move ?

Would you mind looking into this set of actions that appears to switch redirects with the actual title of the page here. The title in question is Wikipedia:IPA/Introduction. No rationale was supplied, but this would probably not make sense anyway.---- Steve Quinn (talk) 17:56, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Moved from user page.

Sorry about that. I thought I was on the talk page. ---- Steve Quinn (talk) 17:56, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

It doesn't make sense, generally we prefer full words, keystroke saving abbreviations can be redirects. Rich Farmbrough, 10:51, 11 August 2010 (UTC).

Is MetaDataSorter needed for category namespace?

For this bug report I disabled MetaDataSorter for the category namespace. Is that any loss of functionality? Rjwilmsi 08:57, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

Yes a little. I don't do much in category namespace, so it's probably not a big deal for me. However removing leading blank lines as one of the last steps (media wiki removes up to 1 leading blank line every save) either of GFs or MetaDataSorter might be purer. Rich Farmbrough, 10:50, 11 August 2010 (UTC).

SmackBot edit question

Hi, I don't understand why in this edit SmackBot replaced a correctly piped link (to avoid a redirect). What is the reason for this (just curious)? --Crusio (talk) 11:45, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

It's just a simplification, no redirects are involved in either version - both go directly to [via] peer-review (the first letter is automatically capitalized on It