Hi EEng. I know I've stopped by to say thanks for the smile a time or two before but your finding the clip for "Crush-Kill-Destroy" sets the bar just that much higher :-) Many cheers to ya! [[User:MarnetteD|MarnetteD]]|[[User talk:MarnetteD|Talk]] 05:08, 6 June 2018 (UTC)
Hi EEng. I know I've stopped by to say thanks for the smile a time or two before but your finding the clip for "Crush-Kill-Destroy" sets the bar just that much higher :-) Many cheers to ya! [[User:MarnetteD|MarnetteD]]|[[User talk:MarnetteD|Talk]] 05:08, 6 June 2018 (UTC)
== In reply to your recent rant visable from space at ANI ==
=== In reply to your recent rant visable from space at ANI ===
Here's a thought. Let's start a separate set of dramaboards just for beauty contests and pro wrestling. Then all of us reality based editors just ignore them completely. Let them argue amongst themselves until they get so pissed off at each other that they quit. Then possibly we can impose the same version of PAGs the rest of the encyclopedia has on them and do away with 98% of the content. [[User:John from Idegon|John from Idegon]] ([[User talk:John from Idegon|talk]]) 05:22, 6 June 2018 (UTC)
Here's a thought. Let's start a separate set of dramaboards just for beauty contests and pro wrestling. Then all of us reality based editors just ignore them completely. Let them argue amongst themselves until they get so pissed off at each other that they quit. Then possibly we can impose the same version of PAGs the rest of the encyclopedia has on them and do away with 98% of the content. [[User:John from Idegon|John from Idegon]] ([[User talk:John from Idegon|talk]]) 05:22, 6 June 2018 (UTC)
:All excellent ideas. I'm utterly serious that there are some topics that inherently attract too high a proportion of incompetent people. [[User:EEng#s|<b style="color: red;">E</b>]][[User talk:EEng#s|<b style="color: blue;">Eng</b>]] 05:31, 6 June 2018 (UTC)
This is a Wikipediauser talk page. This is not an encyclopedia article or the talk page for an encyclopedia article. If you find this page on any site other than Wikipedia, you are viewing a mirror site. Be aware that the page may be outdated and that the user whom this page is about may have no personal affiliation with any site other than Wikipedia. The original talk page is located at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:EEng.
Satellite image of a section of the Great Wall of China, running diagonally from lower left to upper right and not to be confused with the more prominent talkpage running from upper left to lower right. The shadow at the upper left indicates "You are here." Talkpage archives are not visible.File:Князь Данило Острозький у битві на Синіх Водах.1362 рік.jpgMongol hordes attempting to enter EEng's talk page are repulsed by the maze of disorienting section headings and the brigade of fervently deranged talk page stalkers. Many die of carpal tunnel syndrome while scrolling to the bottom of the page.
FDA Warning: Pagescrolling-related unilateral musculoskeletal asymmetry
My friend told me that the best way to get a man would be to impress him with my ability to crush a can so forcefully that the contents shoot out, fly up in the air and land in my mouth, so every morning I do yoga, swim and then come here for 40 mins scrolling to the bottom of EEng's talk page; my right forearm looks like Popeye's now and it's done wonders for my love life.
(a/o February 2, 2016: 131 stalkers, 81/89 "active" [4])
a. Stalkers caught on camera; b. Why was the gardener unhappy?
Lee Harvey Oswald
I'm in awe of your copy editing, it's a real object lesson in how to take sentences that seem ok, but then transform them into something much more fluid and logical. Even though you make it seem easy, I'm sure it takes a lot of time. I think it's an amazing skill and I'm studying your changes closely to try and learn as much from them as I can. Thank you. Alistair Stevenson (talk) 23:36, 8 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Aw, shucks! (blush) The article was (fairly) well organized, and competent at the sentence level, but too much fat -- unimportant details like Ruth Paine drove Marnina from city X to Y, then later drove her from A to B -- OK, we know Ruth was a family friend and friends do such things -- the interested reader could find out details from the refs. Amazing how much tighter things get when you cut even small amounts of stuff like that, which then allows even whole paragraphs to collapse into a single (albeit somewhat more complex) sentence. Again, just for the record for anyone else listening, I have no interest in getting involved in controversy over LHO and JFK -- my intent is strictly to copyedit the article as it stands, neither adding nor omitting anything substantive. Having received no accusatory condemnations from impassioned assassination theorists of whatever stripe, I guess I've succeeded in doing that so far. Thanks for taking the time to compliment. EEng (talk) 12:38, 9 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Your reply here reminds me of one of Mark Twain's quotes: "Anybody can have ideas—the difficulty is to express them without squandering a quire of paper on an idea that ought to be reduced to one glittering paragraph." — President Lethe (talk) 19:42, 25 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
And your post reminds me of the old joke about the ambiguous letter of recommendation: "You will be lucky if you can get this man to work for you." EEng 21:18, 25 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Genealogy databases
Hello,
I thought an earlier post of yours about the use of Ancestry.com was truly excellent, and I have cited it here [5]. If you are interested, you might want to take a look at the RSN discussion yourself and contribute your own thoughts. I am sure they would be helpful. Slp1 (talk) 13:11, 15 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The Whiffenpoofs poised to perform the Fantasies of Victimization of 1912
EEng, shockingly, I find I quite like you. The change came when I began to put your comments in the voice of Seth Green's character in Party Monster. It's no insult. He's mesmerizing. And when I imagine Seth Green's voice saying the phrases "Naturally I thought Lockley was behind this at first" and "be careful not to feed Lockley's fantasy of victimization" in the same breath, it makes a lot more sense. Now do let's leave each other alone for awhile if you can stand it.--Lockley (talk) 02:35, 25 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I never saw PM and have only just now checked it out. Your comparison to me took on a disturbing quality when I read, ...which details his friendship with Alig, that later fell apart as Alig's drug addiction worsened, and ended after he murdered Angel Melendez and went to prison, until I realized that the Seth Green character is the friend, not the murderer. EEng (talk) 22:29, 25 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, I get that hate-turns-to-love thing a lot, though usually it takes years. I'm assuming you've alredy seen [7]. Shall we now, together, tell PBS to go soak his or her head? What a schoolmarm! It's like Atilla the Hun has appeared to dispense justice on my behalf. Saints preserve us! EEng (talk) 02:49, 25 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
P.S. Be more careful who you hang out with -- that Binky guy's up to no good.
P.P.S. Pull any more of that Yale shit and I'll have you boiled in oil.
okay, got it, no more Yalie stuff. --Lockley (talk) 03:17, 25 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Honestly, Lockley, I'd have thought, in this day and age, that you'd know better than to make fun of Poofs [8]. EEng (talk) 22:28, 25 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Two years ago ..., - and did you know that several editors I know enjoy your user page inspiration, unable to decide which pair of image and caption is most to the point? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:59, 22 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
<Bows, acknowledges applause> My only aim is to serve my fellow editors and the project. I am unworthy of your praise. EEng (talk) 13:50, 22 April 2015 (UTC) Please visit User talk:Martinevans123 and help talk him down off the ledge.[reply]
Three years ago, you were recipient no. 463 of Precious, a prize of QAI! bzzt: I have a FAC open. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:52, 22 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I'll stop replying. Sometimes, I know I'm being goaded and still can't stop rising to the bait. Thank you for your reminder. Unless there are problematic edits to articles (as opposed to talk pages) the matter merits no further response. Feeding the beast is an apt metaphor.
It's good to have a voice of reason around.
On another matter: I'm no good at finding lost minds. But here's the Ming you were looking for:
Remember our long-lived friend (who amazingly, seems to have actually taking his indefinite block to heart)? While this one guy is a rank amateur by comparison, similar lessons apply, especially this one: in general (sad to say) it's too much to hope that the party with whom you are engaged will be convinced; convincing those watching and listening should be your goal. Once you think you've achieved that you can fall silent, leaving your interlocutor to babble on contentedly. EEng (talk) 05:08, 31 July 2013 (UTC) CRASH! Oh dear. That thing wasn't genuine, was it? After all, a Ming is a terrible thing to waste.[reply]
Costco run
I searched and searched the aisles, and they were fresh out of troll food. So, on to other ventures. Cullen328Let's discuss it 04:22, 21 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I must thank you for one of the best (and funniest) scenarios of Wikipedia editing I've read. I'm going to be chuckling all day. The cleanup you're doing on MoS is making it actually useful, and I thank you for that as well. I should probably appreciate that more, but it doesn't make me giggle with joy. htom (talk) 15:52, 21 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Nothing you ever did or said regarding the use of "emigrate" or "immigrate" made any sense to me. [9]Sweetmoniker (talk) 08:43, 28 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe this will make sense to you. You asserted, with palpable condescension, that immigrated from and emigrated to are blunders [10]:
There is no possible level of appropriateness to debate on this subject. One "immigrates to" and "emigrates from" Consult any grammarian source if in doubt.
Though no possible level of appropriateness to debate on doesn't recommend you as a wordsmith, I would never deny my own fallibility. Thus I double-checked and... guess what? Your prissy 7th-grade English teacher Mrs. Snodgrass was wrong, and my warm and wonderful 8th-grade teacher Mr. Dunkum was right (hi, Mr. Dunkum, wherever you are!): one may emigrate from or emigrate to or (if one prefers) immigrate from, or to, as well.
You've been offered three compelling arguments for why this cannot be but so:
Argument logical [11]: Under your theory this sentence is verboten--
He emigrated from England to America.
because (you say) one can't emigrate to somewhere. And the following is also a no-no--
He immigrated to America from England.
because (according to you) one can't immigrate from somewhere. So, presumably, you would have this--
He emigrated from England and immigrated to America.
inflicted on the reader, and that's ridiculous. QED.[1]
Argument empirical general [12]: As seen here [13] examples of emigrated to are thick on the ground in the opinions of the Supreme Court of the United States, the Supreme Courts of sundry states of said United States, and the esteemed and honorable Courts Supreme (or other highest courts) of numerous other jurisdictions and sovereignties. High court justices are usually considered exemplary expositors.
And as if that's not enough, no less luminous a legal legend than the great Epaphroditus Peck quoted the digest of a Massachusetts court's opinion thus:[2]
Refusal by an English woman, whose husband had emigrated to the United States and had obtained employment here, to follow him to this country when he reqeuested her to come and sent her money for her passage, was held to be desertion by her, it being found that she had no other reason for her refusal that reluctance to leave her native land. Franklin v. Franklin, 190 Mass. 349; 4 L.R.A. (N.S) 145. See the note to [etc etc and so on and so forth...]
Now, you're not really planning to climb into the ring with Epaphroditus Peck, are you?
Argument empirical specifical[3][14]: Emmanuel College's tablet "In Memory of John Harvard A.M." describes the man as "A member of Emmanuel College who emigrated to Massachusetts Bay...", and later describes itself as "erected by Harvard men ... in the College which fostered his beneficent spirit." Since as is well known Harvard men think they're always right, and Emmanuel men pretty much are always right, this wording (passed by both) must surely be considered dispositive.
The true difference between imm- and em- is a subtle one of emphasis and narrative point of view. These --
John lost his best friend when Bill emigrated to America.
Many of these new immigrants to America had left good friends behind.
Those emigrating from France found it relatively easy to obtain exit papers; those from Germany, less so.
American authorities scrutinized those immigrating from France less carefully than those from Germany.
-- are all fine and all subtly different, and would be irreparably crippled if twisted to fit your Procrustean bed of linguistic over-prescription.
EEng (talk) 06:14, 29 January 2014 (UTC) P.S. The link in your post above proves only that emigrate from is acceptable, not that emigrate to is unacceptable[reply]
Mr. Dunkum would be right proud, not to mention Sir William Schwenck Gilbert. "Procrustean bed" indeed. I doff my specifical QED to you, dear EEng. – Jonesey95 (talk) 07:49, 29 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Not everyone shares your high opinion, Mr. Jonesey (assuming you weren't being facetious). Aside from ol' CG (abovebelow) we have this effusive praise: "so snobbish and pigheaded that I could only make it through three sentences until I couldn't force myself to continue." [15] Noting, however, that it was this critic himself who wrote the bulk of my post's opening (i.e. "There is no possible level of appropriateness to debate on this subject... Consult any grammarian source if in doubt") I must complement the gentleman on his candid self-evaluation. EEng (talk) 04:25, 30 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I could not have been farther (further?) from Facetious, wherever that may be. Mesmerized was more like it. Gobsmacked. Enthralled. I smile enigmatically at you, and my eyes follow you about your chambers. – Jonesey95 (talk) 05:02, 30 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
My attorney will need your address for the restraining order. It would be best if you cooperate. EEng (talk) 05:54, 30 January 2014 (UTC) P.S. Many people leaving Facetious find themselves in Synecdoche (and of course when I say Synecdoche I really mean the greater Synecdoche area).[reply]
Personal attack? You decide! [Section heading not supplied by ChrisGualtieri]
Did you really... and I mean that... need to spend all that time making such a post? Its your time, but I think some of this is a bit ironic. Glad to see you are still floating about. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 06:45, 29 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
How much time do you think it took me? EEng (talk) 07:16, 29 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
In any event, it took about one Masterpiece Theatre episode. (This current post cost about 1/2 a Modern Family.) You like to mass-update article classes, I like to warn off stubbornly misinformed know-it-alls.
WARNING! Text inside constitutes, according to one editor, a personal attack!
Chief among our differences, CG, is that you seem to think that beautiful portraits (or fine Wikipedia articles) are created by dutifully coloring between lines set out for us by our betters, instead of considering what will please the eye or nourish the intellect. Perhaps you would have asked da Vinci, "Did you really need to spend all that time making such a picture?"?
EEng (talk) 04:25, 30 January 2014 (UTC) P.S. What is it that's ironic[reply]
I'd watch those personal attacks and bearing false witness because I don't tolerate such abuse sitting down. Your comment shows your ignorance and folly - but if you take such pride in burning bridges, far be it from me to tell you that you've burnt the last with I. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 00:40, 31 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Far be it from me to tell you what I just told you.
Second on the list of differences between us is that you think everything's a personal attack. You certainly don't take anything lying down -- you get right in there and issue stern warnings! [16][17] Some of them are even "last" warnings! [18] And "bearing false witness" -- what... gonna report me for violating WP:TENCOMMANDMENTS?
Re "Far be it from me to tell you that you've burnt the last [bridge] with I"... Is that meant to be some kind of brain teaser? It's like a kid saying, "I'm not gonna tell you that mom has milk and cookies in the kitchen."
Anyway, that's "burnt the last with me," Einstein EEng (talk) 05:20, 31 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Talk page comment
Not sure if you realise that your edit at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Dates and numbers inserted your reply in the middle of Makyen's comment, which I believe is poor form: your reply should be below, after Makyen's signature, to avoid confusion about who wrote what. I suggest you move your reply.
Sorry to always be harping on the negatives instead of admiring all the good stuff you've been doing! I get the sense that you sometimes seem to be in a rush to post your changes and then having to repeatedly edit again and again to patch things up, and there's always the risk that someone will revert, edit, or start a conversation while you're still perfecting your work. Maybe it would be beneficial if you tinkered in the sandbox before posting your finished product for all to enjoy, which might make us all more inclined to praise your work rather than criticise works in progress. I digress. Keep up the good work! —sroc💬 14:29, 14 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry!
Reading on my iPad and did not mean to revert you! Deepest apologies! Kafka Liz (talk) 01:28, 25 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Oh! Too bad I didn't get this sooner -- the unmanned killer drone has already been dispatched. EEng (talk) 01:33, 25 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Luckily I was able to get the killer drone recalled. Sorry if it gave you a fright.
I'd be interested to know what you think of the article. EEng (talk) 01:35, 25 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Poor Lizzie died of fright, but I, Kafka Jane, can give a close reading if you wish. Overall, I'd say it looks damn good. Kafka Liz (talk) 11:25, 25 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Would you consider re-reviewing as there has been several ALTs submitted. I was hoping for a tick. Thanks.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 18:29, 26 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I'll ring the reviewer's Belle. EEng (talk) 18:38, 26 June 2014 (UTC) P.S. You are forgiven for removing the image. See [19][reply]
You are a funny man. I missed that one all together.......--Doug Coldwell (talk) 18:48, 26 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
What -- you thought I just stuck a large sea mammal in for no reason? EEng (talk) 18:52, 26 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
There's never any predicting what dugong a do. Belle (talk) 07:52, 27 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Cash for you
Cash
Here's some cash for coming up with that alt hook [20]. --Jakob (talk) 21:54, 29 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
This beats that stupid wikilove and the kittens any day. I'm rich! EEng (talk) 21:56, 29 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The answer is yes, it lacks dignity. As well as archiving. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:56, 19 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
July 2014
Your recent editing history at Template:Did you know/Preparation area 4 shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war. Being involved in an edit war can result in your being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you don't violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly.
To avoid being blocked, instead of reverting please consider using the article's talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. See BRD for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection. You should know better than to behave this way.Orlady (talk) 13:44, 28 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
So should you. Honestly, can't you just let something fun and interesting, like a weird old word almost no one's seen in 200 years, live and grow? [22]EEng (talk) 13:48, 28 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Your action -- introducing a word into a hook in prep that was not used in the article, is found in very few dictionaries, and was not discussed on the nomination page -- is indeed typical of the antics of some less mature Wikipedia contributors, but it is not in keeping with the established rules of DYK, except perhaps on April 1. --Orlady (talk) 13:52, 28 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
See my prior response. EEng (talk) 13:53, 28 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Your action -- introducing a word into a hook in prep that was not used in the article, is found in very few dictionaries, and was not discussed on the nomination page -- is indeed typical of the antics of some less mature Wikipedia contributors, but it is not in keeping with the established rules of DYK, except perhaps on April 1. --Orlady (talk) 13:52, 28 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Where were you when your fellow less mature editors needed support for their antics? EEng (talk) 14:35, 28 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I think we can all find out only too easily... tee-hee. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:53, 28 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Um, something's just come up with "Article has not been created or expanded 5x or promoted to Good Article within the past 10 days" (using my DYK checker tool). Not sure what to do about that. Seems a real shame.Martinevans123 (talk) 20:14, 30 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Um, um, what article are you talking about? EEng (talk) 20:24, 30 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Martin, that DYKchecker tool is just a tool for use by humans. Humans aren't suppose to let the tool make decisions for them. Humans can -- and do, on a regular basis -- understand that articles are eligible for DYK if they were nominated within the specified time window. Eligibility doesn't automatically expire for nominations sitting on the noms page. --Orlady (talk) 21:22, 30 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Martin, is your concern whether the nomination was within the idiotic 7-day limit? EEng (talk) 21:26, 30 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Yes. But then I'm only human, alas. And only mostly idiotic. I'm guessing that it was indeed nominated within 7 days of its passing GA (if that was what's required). Martinevans123 (talk) 21:31, 30 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I think the nom is timely. As you know I never pass up any opportunity to point out that the idiotic 7-day idiotic requirement is idiotically idiotic. So can you complete the review? EEng (talk) 21:36, 30 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
When I left a message on the DYK talk page, I didn't expect much to come of it for at least 12 hours, but the deadly duo of EEng and Yoninah performed magnificently, I expected it would need some fixes from me, but you, Yoninah, and Belle fixed all the issues. Thank you very much for getting it done for me, I am very grateful. Best, Matty.007 07:00, 29 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
A barnstar for you!
The Special Barnstar
For becoming the target of administrator Orlady. ...William 13:23, 29 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Wow. Do you get a volume discount for the barnstars? EEng (talk) 18:49, 29 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
You didn't like the picture for this. I didn't see the problem but de gustibus non est disputandum so I have added a gallery of other choices. Enjoy. Andrew (talk) 13:45, 11 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, but I never eat in fields full of spital -- unhygienic. EEng (talk) 13:51, 11 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
There is currently a discussion at ANI regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is EEng and edit warring. Thank you. —Bgwhite (talk) 07:39, 28 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Today's drama-fest will begin at 1400 hours. Refreshments and snacks will be provided for the peanut gallery.Turkish Delight also available.
Without wishing to comment on who's right and who's wrong, I threw together User:Ritchie333/Hit and run editors today, and one point I made in it is that the typical Wikipedia reader won't be too fussed about what citation templates are used in an article. I can barely master {{sfn}}, and even then it's akin to drawing a pentagram on the floor and hope the formatting doesn't cause errors or get reverted. Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 17:17, 28 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
ANI is a cool place to hang out. Most people there find it so cool that's the only place they do hang out. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:23, 28 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I have a good sense of humor, but I don't find this one funny. --Tryptofish (talk) 17:39, 28 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
[Referring to caption at right] Dammit, I'm going out. I hate for my tickets to go to waste. Know anyone who can use them? To answer (Ritchie) your question re GA (not FA) delisting, see [23] which incidentally makes some blushworthy comments.
But seriously, I'd be very happy for you to comment on who's right and who's wrong. .
Oppose: that's how we do things round here when asked for a comment (I know you didn't ask me to comment, but that's par for the course too) Belle (talk) 18:02, 28 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Further to Ritchie: Your essay is bang on. You might want to draw on this by Beyond My Ken (you'll find it linked under Thoughts or something from his userpage):
The flip side of "ownership" is the problem of editors who come to an article with a particular agenda, make the changes they want to the page according to their preconceived notions of what should be, and then flit off to their next victim, without ever considering whether the page really needed the change they made, or whether the change improved the article at all. These hit and run editors certainly never take the time to evaluate the article in question, consider what its needs are, and spend the time necessary to improve its quality. Their editing is an off-the-rack, one-size-fits-all proposition, premised on the idea that what improves one article, or one type of article, will automatically improve every other article or type of article. In the grand scheme of things, "ownership" may cause conflicts when two editors take the same degree of interest in a particular article, and disagree with it, but mostly it helps to preserve what is best in an article. On the other hand, hit-and-run editing, including the plague of hit-and-run tagging that's defaced so many Wikipedia articles, is a much more serious problem, because it's more difficult to detect, frequently flies under the flag of the MoS (and therefore is presumed at first blush to be legitimate), and is more widespread. Wikipedians should worry more about those who hit-and-run, and less about those who feel stewardship towards the articles they work so hard on. 03:04, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
BMK's thoughts page is generally brilliant - here's another one : "Start with an article that looks like shit and reads like it was written by a high-school dropout. A hundred edits later, take another look at the article – and it still looks and reads like shit. That's because the intervening edits did useful things like replace m-dashes with n-dashes, capitalized the first letters of template names, added interwiki links, vandalized and reverted the vandalism, made sure that bold text was being used as laid down in the manual of style, removed extraneous blank lines and miscellaneous other actions which did not, in any fundamental way, improve the article." Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 10:20, 29 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Thin-skinned admin blocks for criticism of himself!
See section immediately following -- so thin-skinned he even made this [24] edit! EEng (talk) 05:52, 21 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
August 2014
You have been blocked from editing for a period of 48 hours for attempting to harass other users. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make useful contributions. If you think there are good reasons why you should be unblocked, you may appeal this block by adding the following text below this notice: {{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}. However, you should read the guide to appealing blocks first. Bgwhite (talk) 05:36, 30 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I asked you to stop your name calling. You did the same exact thing at ANI and went on to call editors "self-satisfied roving enforcers". Disagreeing with editors is one thing, but belittling editors is another. Bgwhite (talk) 05:42, 30 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Noting that you are blocking for comments regarding you, I'll let the great John Stuart Mill try to explain to you how ridiculous you're making yourself look:
Before quitting the subject of freedom of opinion, it is fit to take notice of those who say, that the free expression of all opinions should be permitted, on condition that the manner be temperate ... If the test be offence to those whose opinion is attacked, I think experience testifies that the offence is given whenever the attack is telling and powerful, and that every opponent who pushes them hard, and whom they find it difficult to answer, appears to them, if he shows any strong feeling on the subject, an intemperate opponent.
In other words, it stings because it's so true, you're mad because you can't think of anything to say in response, and as the person criticized you shouldn't take it upon yourself to decide whether the criticism is appropriate.
I doubt I'll appeal this since there's more use letting it stand as a 48-hour monument to your thin-skinned pettiness. Along those lines I'd appreciate it if you'd note this block in the ANI discussion -- unless you'd prefer others not see your action side by side with the "offense" that prompted it.
P.S. Will you be blocking Nyttend as well? After all, he called you an "amateur" [25] -- that must have stung pretty bad too. Or that mean Ritchie333, who called you "a stereotypical Wikipedian, who makes a large amount of similar changes to pages, despite having had no evidence of being previously interested in any of them" (not by name, of course, but then I didn't call you by name either -- you just seemed to know it was you that I was referring to -- funny, isn't it). Ritchie also mentioned that "One of the reasons hit and run editors have gained prominence in [the area of trivial formatting changes] is that writing the encyclopaedia has become more difficult. The quality of work has increased in some areas, which makes it harder to contribute without good knowledge in the subject matter and sources. Fiddling with the formatting seems to be a suitable alternative passtime". That must really hurt. You should definitely block Ritchie333 for that!
EEng requesting in your talk page that other people get blocked is not very nice. -- Magioladitis (talk) 07:20, 30 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Magioladitis, if you actually think that what I wrote was a suggestion that Nyttend or Ritchie333 (or, for that matter, Beyond My Ken or BedsBookworm) be blocked, then words fail. EEng (talk) 14:26, 30 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
But I'm not sure if blocking someone is that much nicer? I certainly wouldn't condone "personal attacks", but goodness me, compared to what I've been called on occasion, this looks like a rather mild but candid observation. Could Bgwhite be regarded as "involved" in any way here? Martinevans123 (talk) 09:52, 30 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Martinevans123, perhaps you'll be kind enough to post a mention of this block at the ANI thread. I want it in the record there before it gets archived. Bgwhite apparently prefers to work under cover of darkness. EEng (talk) 14:26, 30 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I have already noted there. Yes, he may be a bit of a "rover" (allegedly). But at least he doesn't go sneaking off to the dentist for some off-wiki relaxation! Martinevans123 (talk) 14:34, 30 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Just for the record, a former member of Arbcom called this block "outrageous"[26]. EEng (talk) 02:09, 7 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@Bgwhite: probably does not agree with your continued snark and attacks, but I do not think changing the header to "Admin blocks for criticism of himself" is appropriate here. It does not seem to follow the talk page guidelines and I've warned you repeatedly for making gross abuses of my own text. Please stop inflaming the situation - this is getting beyond distasteful. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 03:59, 7 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Please don't change words I wrote. For the record, I had edited the ANI discussion three times and not on the thread you responded too. You were responding to John and Typto's comments. The examples you gave were John's and you took a swipe at John. Your words were directed at all editors editing Gage. Other admins at the ANI page said you did a blockable offense. At least now you are directing your hate at me instead of Chris, John, Typto and everybody else. Just drop it and edit Phineas Gage with Chris. Bgwhite (talk) 08:05, 7 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Just for the record: No editor contested the blocked while it was active and no unblock has been requested. Eeng remained blocked for 48 hours. -- Magioladitis (talk) 13:02, 7 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, missed these comments until now, and they bear responding to, just for the record.
As already explained above I was perfectly happy to have been blocked by a thin-skinned bully like Bgwhite. And many more editors at ANI said I did not "do a blockable offense" (to use the words of an editor who has trouble writing English) and scolded Bgwhite for acting in clear violation of WP:INVOLVED.
My words were not directed at all editors editing the Gage article, but rather a small group of self-certain editors who tag-team actual content contributors to maintain their freedom to impose nonexistent "rules" reflecting nothing but their desire to feel they're doing something useful -- regardless of whether or not they actually are.
Magioladitis' clueless non sequiturs, showing he comprehends nothing that came before, make more obvious how blissfully insular is the mindless echo chamber of mutual cheerleading in which this group operates.
Well, I disagree with that. -- Magioladitis (talk) 22:33, 21 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
It's almost artistic -- the way in which your spare, innocent obliviousness makes my point more eloquently than I could ever hope to make it myself. EEng (talk) 05:14, 22 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
No problem. Do you think you have to be blocked for using the expression "thin-skinned bully" or not? -- Magioladitis (talk) 09:20, 22 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
No, I don't have to be blocked -- what a weird way you have of expressing yourself -- but if a thin-skinned bully wanted to further underscore what a thin-skinned bully he is, that would be a great way for him to do it. EEng (talk) 18:28, 22 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Some style
"The Manual of Style is not yet an education-free zone." I love your style. Cheers. Jonathunder (talk) 18:45, 16 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Opinion is split on that, with no middle ground -- it seems an editor can either love my style, or burn with hatred for it, with no middle ground ever. Submitted for your consideration:
Not every teenage girl lets you read her diary! ("blush") Martinevans123 (talk) 20:32, 16 September 2014 (UTC) [reply]
The phrase in dispute was is remarkably small, which leads me hope the teenage girl wasn't someone he was dating -- though that would explain the autonomic hostility. EEng (talk) 22:19, 16 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).
Admin Bgwhite is WP:INVOLVED, as he and I have had trouble before re this very article [31] (though I have never told him or anyone else to "fuck off") and on other articles.
I repeatedly asked that the question be raised at the article's Talk page, per BRD. [32][33][34]
Blocks are meant to be preventative, not punitive. Bgwhite blocked me [35] seven hours after my last edit, and after another editor had restored the article to "my" version [36]. The article continues to remain in "my" version, with no attempt to change it by anyone including WP:INVOLVED admin Bgwhite. The block serves no purpose.
Your edits weren't exempt from the rules on edit warring, because you weren't removing a copyright violation, a libelous statement, or vandalism. In this context, you were edit warring, and considering this is your second block, 72 hours is a reasonable duration. PhilKnight (talk) 07:52, 7 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
{{unblock|1=The unblock decline did not address any of the points I raised in my request, which are, again:
That the blocking admin acted in contravention of WP:INVOLVED, given his prior disputes with me regarding that very page and other pages.
That the block was in no way preventative, in that it was made 7 hours after the last relevant edit to the page (during time no other admin saw fit to take action, and despite an ANEW thread being open all that time -- reinforcing the stink of INVOLVED already mentioned).
}}
Discussion
EEng it's not "your" version. Any block to bots that you added was removed exactly because it served no reason as I explained you but you kept reverting me and another editor. The nobots tag on the page is only to prevent bad typo fixing by editors who won;t understand the template you put inside a word. In fact, the template inside the word is not needed since the browser takes care (or at least should care care) of this. -- Magioladitis (talk) 09:27, 5 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Bottom line, the template you were warring to remove was restored by another editor, after which you suddenly dropped your efforts to remove it. Whether the template has the precise same list of bots as before doesn't matter -- it lists the bots that have recently done damage to the article, which is all I was trying to maintain. (Talk page discussion might have come up with a narrower list of bots to block, if that was your concern, but you declined my repeated invitations.)
Please stop trying to prove who's right and go spend your time fixing the bugs in your scripts that are the cause of all this wasted effort. EEng (talk) 14:25, 5 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Wow, a second block by Bgwhite. What a coincidence. Do you have any idea how user:Bladesmulti learnt of your lil spat with Magioladitis in order to revert you 11 minutes after your second revert of Magioladitis? It seems like another coincidence. Did they participate in any related discussions about the article? p.s., for future reference, 3RR is a fairly strict limit; once you hit it, you need to take a break or take the matter to talk / another venue for more people to see the dispute and help one way or another, irrespective of right or wrong, unless the article is a BLP or very clear-cut vandalism. John Vandenberg(chat) 16:39, 6 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, based on my conversation with Bladesmulti in the section just above this one (#Edit_warring_on_Eleanor_Elkins_Widener) it appears he walked in on the dustup with Magioladitis quite by accident (though I think it would have been better had he stayed out of the firefight, not knowing the background).
Of course you're right about 3RR, strictly speaking, but you'll notice that seven hours after a 15-minute edit war only Magioladitis' old pal Bgwhite saw fit to issue a (72-hour!) block over such a silly matter.
It's also too bad that an unblock request sits for days with no resolution either way. I'm not ashamed to be blocked by a thin-skinned bully like Bgwhite (see #Thin-skinned_admin_blocks_for_criticism_of_himself.21 -- and even less ashamed to be blocked by him twice, since it shows his colors that much more clearly -- but naturally I'd prefer that the record reflect the WP:INVOLVED, punitive, and angry nature of his action.
For those who don't know, Magioladitis is the maintainer (or one of the maintainers) of AWB, which does a lot of good on certain types of articles (those which haven't gotten careful human attention to their formatting) but also a certain amount of bad on other articles (those which have been carefully formatted by humans, sometimes in ways outside the experience of editors like Magioladitis and Bgwhite). What seems to have upset him (or them) is that the article carried a {{bots}} template asking that AWB and certain other bots, which have made damaging "fixes" to the article in the past, spend their time elsewhere. I suspect his hacker's ego is hurt by the idea that his scripts don't have free rein to roam as they please, and his edit summaries claiming "any problems have been addressed" and "tools work after last changes I [made to?] the page" are typical of assurances heard from inexperienced programmers everywhere: "Now I'm sure my code works -- I found the last bug -- trust me!" He doesn't seem to understand that no tool is appropriate for every situation. That's only my speculation of course. EEng (talk) 18:26, 6 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
As I wrote, with page's current state, no AWB bot will make any unwanted changes. And in fact the bots tags is completely useless there since the only possible problem is a typo fix bug. Since typo fixing is only made by human editors and it is known to be imperfect (for instance, in some cases, there are typos on purpose or "typos" are actually rare words) editors should get any edit before the save. AWB's typo fixing is more of suggestions and less strict rules. I never wrote that I guarantee that AWB does not have bugs and it won't make unwanted changes in future version of that page (or any other page). It is very likely that the entire problem was a misunderstanding but please assume good faith in the future. -- Magioladitis (talk) 21:37, 6 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
What is the block length of 72 hours based on, exactly? If this repeated re-addition was based on some kind of lack of understanding in the part of EEng, is a 72-hour block meant to be more effective in "re-educating" him than a shorter block? Surely the link provided to User:Bgwhite's edit of 22 August shows he was very clearly WP:INVOLVED? Martinevans123 (talk) 21:51, 6 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I can't speak on behalf of Bgwhite but just note that the time period is the next bigger after the previous 48-hour block. I do not like if the discussion goes there. I think the best is to find a way to work altogether and I see EEng not helping on this direction. There was no reason to go for 5-6 reverts as there is not reason not to believe me that AWB won't affect the page negatively for the time being since I have tested it before removing the tag. If we all assume good faith and co-operate we will be more productive. Have you seen me making any large scale changes in any of the pages EEng works? No. Because EEng does a wonderful job, as fasr as I have seen, in finding sources. I respect their work but I would like to see a page in a state other editors can get involved too. Anyway, I do not want to open a completely new conversation about everything right now. -- Magioladitis (talk) 22:05, 6 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I've been feeling awful about this since it happened, and I haven't known what exactly to say until now, but I feel like there are a few things I want to say. As EEng knows, 3RR is a serious thing, and I think the final straw was that EEng made two reverts after the notice on his talk page. There was a report at WP:3RRN, and administrators pay close attention to whether or not the reverting stopped after the editor was notified. It seems to me that if Bgwhite had not made the block, some other administrator would have. (And I don't think that requests to go to talk in edit summaries of reverts make the reverts alright.) EEng, please, we need you here at Wikipedia, and you are too smart to get sucked into these edit wars. Please get a hold on the reverting, before we lose you completely. I'm really worried, and I really mean that. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:16, 6 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Well No, Magioladitis, I must admit that I haven't really been monitoring your interactions with EEng. And I only really commented as it's been quite a while since he requested, along what appear to be very sensible lines, a review of his block. Perhaps he'll get a review after about 71 and a half hours have elapsed? Martinevans123 (talk) 22:28, 6 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I just looked at the list of requests for block review, and there's a backlog, with 31 such open requests right now, so I doubt that there is a personal snub here. But I have an idea. EEng, just in case you want something to do while restricted to this talk page, how about archiving old threads? Otherwise, you might be going for the world record for the longest user talk page! --Tryptofish (talk) 22:34, 6 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I just left a note at WP:AN about the backlog, so maybe that will get some attention. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:27, 6 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I've blocked EEng before. That doesn't mean I cannot block him again. I'm not aware of any interaction I've had with him since 7th September. That was to complain that EEng is changing my messages on his talkpage, which he has since changed again (so, warning, EEng has done and may edit by messages here). The interaction before that was August 30th. I believe EEng has a fixation on me, but not the other way around.
I was contacted by two people about EEng's edit war. They also made me aware of this thread at WP:AN3. So, if I didn't make a block, someone else reading AN3 would have.
I've blocked three people (including EEng) in the past week for 3RR, two 72-hour blocks and a 24-hour block.
a) The other two were on the same article. One person was recently blocked for edit warring, thus I did a 72-hour block. The other person had a clean slate, thus a 24-hour block.
b) I did 72-hours for EEng because: He was recently blocked, he reverted 5 times, he reverted three different people, his was disparaging in his edit summaries ("your vague assurances are worthless") and he disregarded the instructions at {{nobots}} on how to apply the template. Remove half of these and it would still warrant 72-hour block. From WP:EW, "Where a block is appropriate, 24 hours is common for a first offense; administrators tend to issue longer blocks for repeated or aggravated violations, and will consider other factors, such as civility and previous blocks."
Unlike what EEng said in his block appeal, the article is not currently at "his" version. This is his last version. This is the current version. They are different.
EEng did ask the question to be raised on the talk page. However, EEng never did raise it on the talk page. On his 5th revert, he did ask this to be discussed again. After the 3rd revert, one doesn't continue to revert, they should ask the question on the talk page. EEng wasn't following what he asked of others.
@Bgwhite: You said: "I was contacted by two people about EEng's edit war." I don't see those contacts on your user talk page. Can you tell us anything about those contacts? --Tryptofish (talk) 23:14, 6 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Tryptofish, both were by email. Both were sent while I was asleep. I do believe they were sent so I would block EEng. Who/What/Why is not relevant. Admins get notices all the time about somebody's alleged bad behavior. I've been sent emails and notifications multiple times the past month about EEng and not acted on it. This time, he clearly broke the rules, which is why I intervened. If EEng didn't break the rules, we wouldn't be here and that is the only thing to consider. Bgwhite (talk) 23:42, 6 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@Bgwhite: Thanks very much for the reply. I agree that it doesn't matter who the people were, and I have no doubt about admins getting lots of e-mails. But I think that I can safely infer that the two persons weren't merely spamming every admin they could think of. They likely contacted you because you were the blocking admin the previous time. In no way do I think that this fact affects the validity of the block, so please don't think that I am implying that. However, it does speak to how you are becoming perceived as the admin who is receptive to blocking EEng. For that reason, I recommend that you consider yourself to be "involved" in the future. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:49, 6 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I thought the idea behind WP:INVOLVED was that the blocking admin was, or had been, in dispute with the blocked editor in the same article? Saying "if I didn't make a block, someone else reading AN3 would have" looks a bit like saying "WP:INVOLVED doesn't apply if I can save another adnin diong the same job."? Martinevans123 (talk) 07:19, 7 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I believe that PhilKnight's reasoning is correct. Although I've said what I said above to Bgwhite, I think that the two existing blocks walked right up to the line of INVOLVED, without actually crossing over that line. Bgwhite never edited the Widener biography page where the reverts took place. In most of the conflicts between EEng and Bgwhite, Bgwhite has been acting in an administrative role rather than as a disagreeing editor, although, just as EEng has, frankly, taunted Bgwhite, Bgwhite needs to start considering, going forward, that he is starting to be perceived as having an involved or prejudiced role. And I wish EEng would drop the review requests, because it would be asking a lot of any administrator reviewing the AN3 report to assume that, had EEng been reverted again, EEng would not have continued to revert, given what had already happened. --Tryptofish (talk) 17:46, 7 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Unblock request was declined per WP:UNINVOLVED which reads "One important caveat is that an administrator who has interacted with an editor or topic area purely in an administrative role, or whose prior involvements are minor or obvious edits which do not speak to bias, is not involved and is not prevented from acting in an administrative capacity in relation to that editor or topic area." -- Magioladitis (talk) 15:36, 7 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I don't accept that WP:INVOLVED is a good enough reason to unblock. At most, if I accepted the involved rationale, I would take over the block myself. PhilKnight (talk) 17:28, 7 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
A fair comment. Thanks for clarifying that your decline was not "per WP:UNINVOLVED". But I think you should give a clear answer about it, one way or the other. If you think the block is still valid, that's fair enough. But at least we will all have clarity on when it is appropriate to block and when it is not. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:35, 7 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with John Vandenberg's comment about going over 3RR - there are very few circumstances when that's acceptable, and this certainly wasn't one of them. In this context, I think the block is valid. PhilKnight (talk) 17:49, 7 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I think Tryptofish's comment about the block being just on the right side of the line of WP:INVOLVED is correct. PhilKnight (talk) 18:24, 7 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Uninvolved? You must be joking
This is all quite academic at this point, but still enlightening. Magioladitis, you don't seem to have looked at the diff I supplied re INVOLVED [37] -- a discussion in which I asked (not of Bgwhite):
What purpose is served by activating it? Please answer in terms of how articles are improved by highlighting < p>, not in terms of the mechanisms of operation of these tools. EEng (talk) 11:33 am, 22 August 2014, Friday (1 month, 16 days ago) (UTC-4)
and Bgwhite jumped in out of nowhere to reply
We've been thru this before. You do not like anything about Checkwiki. You've told us to fuck off. You've called us MOS Nazis. We show where in MOS, but you've used MOS is just a guideline/policy and IAR. The funny thing is, one of the reasons Phineas Gage is not a GA is because of your idiosyncratic formatting. The very thing we've been preaching is one of things holding back your GA nomination. Eleanor Elkins Widener is already on the whitelist and won't be checked for <p> again. Bgwhite (talk) 1:35 pm, 22 August 2014, Friday (1 month, 16 days ago) (UTC-4)
(All false statements on Bgwhite's part, BTW, other than that I did refer to certain editors as "MOS Nazis", for which I later substituted "schoolmarmish know-it-alls" or something like that.) Now, does that really comport with UNINVOLVED's criterion, which reads
One important caveat is that an administrator who has interacted with an editor or topic area purely in an administrative role, or whose prior involvements are minor or obvious edits which do not speak to bias,
--? Hardly. Bgwhite lost his temper, repeatedly, and still allowed himself to act on his anger in an administrator's capacity. EEng (talk) 01:26, 16 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Well then, I will step in here like a schoolmarmish know-it-all, and say that I stand by what I said earlier, that the block stepped up to the line of "involved" without quite crossing over it, and that Bgwhite should consider himself involved for the future. And beyond doubt, EEng has acted on his own anger as well. Which isn't worth it. Peace. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:52, 16 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Excuse me? An admin who says to an editor "You do not like anything about [this administrator's pet project]. You've told us to fuck off. You've called us MOS Nazis" is an "administrator who has interacted with an editor or topic area purely in an administrative role, or whose prior involvements are minor or obvious edits which do not speak to bias"? Again, you must be joking. EEng (talk) 00:43, 20 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
You and I both have better things to do than to dwell on this, but when you have called other editors MOS Nazis, even if it is later changed to something else, you should drop it for your own sake. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:12, 20 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The greater the extent to which one considers what I said offensive (I actually don't, per Mel Brooks) the more obvious is the INVOLVED aspect. EEng (talk) 23:43, 20 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I think we can all agree that Mel Brooks was joking. Life is too short to stay angry. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:39, 20 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, so if Mel Brooks says it, then it's OK. Tryptocrite! EEng (talk) 23:43, 20 October 2014 (UTC) Can I be blocked for calling someone a Tryptocrite?[reply]
Well, it's better than calling me Typofish. Early in my editing career, I had a troll who insisted on calling me that. The troll is gone, and I'm still here, and it's always better to keep one's editing on the happy side. I knew Mel Brooks, and editor, you're no Mel Brooks! --Tryptofish (talk) 22:03, 21 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I actually feel bad for the article's creator Northamerica1000, since this deprived his article of the full time in the oven it deserved. Anyone want to propose that the hook be re-run? EEng (talk) 21:51, 23 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Without doubt one of the lamest edit wars ever
NPA
Please don't make a personal attack in an edit summary as you did at Wikipedia:Did you know]. Dispute resolution is made that much more difficult. Binksternet (talk) 16:29, 24 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, please. If he can't take it he shouldn't be dishing it out [38][39]. This guy's always angry. There's no dispute here, just his venting, so there's no dispute resolution to be made more difficult. EEng (talk) 17:45, 24 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
It'd be best if you started a thread at the DYK talk page rather than conduct this petty feud via edit summaries. But you both already knew that. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:04, 24 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
You having the most experience in the petty feud quarter, of course. Actaully, I was going to ask you to take over for me, since you and Bloom are always entertaining to watch. EEng (talk) 21:12, 24 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Bravo. I've turned over a new leaf, i.e. not arguing the toss with those who will never get it, plenty of them around. But the initial advice stands, start a thread rather than attempt a puerile debate via edit summaries. That way we'll get it all out in the open and neither of you will need to feel anxious or upset. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:17, 24 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I had noticed you were less of a curmudgeon lately. Keep up the good work. There's nothing to debate, as BMS has made the needed fix, Bloom's incomprehension notwithstanding. EEng (talk) 21:22, 24 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I had also noticed, in that same period, that you had taken up the role of being the local asshat;) Keep up the good work! The Rambling Man (talk) 21:34, 24 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Yours are big shoes to fill, but I'm doing my best. It's a dirty job but someone's gotta do it. EEng (talk) 21:38, 24 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Great, now archive your talk page. It's as bloated as most of the chat at the Reference Desk or the DYK talkpage. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:01, 24 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Love me, love my bloated talk page. EEng (talk) 22:25, 24 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
"Aquarius! and my name is EEng!" .... "bloat, bloat on"..... Martinevans123 (talk) 22:29, 24 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Edit warring is disruptive regardless of how many reverts you have made.
Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.
If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes; work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing.
—Bloom6132 (talk) 21:43, 25 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
It's more convincing when the person warning about "edit warring" isn't one of those doing the reverting. You're obviously angry about other things. [41][42]EEng (talk) 21:50, 25 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
What a load of bollocks. Don't feed it. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:58, 25 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
See [43]] for what all this is about. As with earlier incidents recently (I seem to be making a habit of this [44]]) I'm pleased and gratified to be blocked at the behest of someone so transparently angry [45]. Hopefully this will allow him to cool down. EEng (talk) 23:37, 25 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
EEng, the best thing I can think of is that a very long time ago, an unruly landlord took exception to the music the band I was in were playing, and at the end of the gig told us to not come back while turning a blind eye to a couple of drunks hurling our equipment out into the street, nearly causing injury due to a bass drum flying through the air. When 3RR wars break out, think of tales like that and remind yourself "it could be worse". Happy holidays. Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 14:45, 26 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Either that, or try and get your own drunken bass-drum hurling in first. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:55, 26 November 2014 (UTC) grrrr, a measly 24 hours! ... doesn't even give us enough time do undo all your dodgey Huck Phinn edits. [reply]
I continue to be astonished that this page seems worth watching to so many people. EEng (talk) 04:08, 27 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Friendly suggestion
I suggest you revert this edit. The comment is off-topic there and makes you look petty. I don't think it contributes to a good working climate, either between the two of you, or in general. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 02:54, 28 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I appreciate the suggestion, but decline. I'm not embarrassed to be blocked at the behest of someone like that, but I prefer that the context be on the record. EEng (talk) 03:27, 28 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Pearls before swine
Too true. Oh well, there's lots of other hooks in the sea. Yoninah (talk) 18:44, 5 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Like I said somewhere else, it just goes to show that hookers aren't appreciated, despite providing a much-in-demand service. EEng (talk) 21:11, 5 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Today is "National shit on EEng from a great height day". Please bring your rotten tomatoes and automated insult generators. Thankyou. Image courtesy of Ritchie333
Be nice. I removed a significant amount of your verbage that had nothing to do with the AFD. If you can't be civil, don't speak up at all. seicer | talk | contribs 17:52, 14 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure that referring to EEng's edits as crap is going to get the necessary result. Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 19:22, 14 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
How prescient of you (see below). In the event, it apparently didn't. So what do you think -- should I file the ritual futile unblock request? EEng (talk) 22:14, 14 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
If you'll specify just why you blocked me, I'll consult my glittering salon of talkpage stalkers for advice on whether I should file the ritual futile appeal. EEng (talk) 22:14, 14 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
ked me, I'll consult my glittering salon of talkpage stalkers for advice on whether I should file the ritual futile appeal. EEng (talk) 22:14, 14 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Drmies:, @Yngvadottir: - I've just had a GA review torpedoed as a result of EEng's block, I don't suppose you've be awfully kind like you were to the Best Known For IP and consider "time served" would you? EEng, I think you've made your point in the AfD (as have I) and we should both leave it alone. Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 22:51, 14 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
EEng, I'm saying this as one friend to another - leave ANI alone. Rubbing Drmies up the wrong way is likely to result in a block, possibly an indefinite one. Now, don't take that as meaning I support or want you to be blocked - I don't! But the peanut gallery at ANI generally don't tend to evaluate the pros and cons of an editor, and once you've been dragged there a few times and blocked, it's easy for said peanut gallery to think "he's not here to write an encyclopedia" and break out the banhammers. Please, just stick to articles and DYKs - whatever other disagreements we've had recently I can honestly say your work at DYK is a good thing and very much appreciated for keeping the quality of the main page upheld. Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 12:51, 6 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, I doubt that anyone is going to blocked for rubbing me the wrong way, and I'm not going to block for it. And Ritchie, it wasn't just the peanut gallery, if that's what those folks were: ANI, as I feel I have to explain constantly, is not a forum--and so, EEng, it doesn't matter whether something takes three hours or not. It's consensus plus an admin's judgment, and in this case the admin is me. Few people dislike the forumy peanuty chatter at ANI more than I do--but I hope that there's at least one person in the room who understands that the constant reopening of threads and the persistent shit-smearing in that discussion is, in general and in the long run, what makes ANI the barrel o' crap it is. So, EEng, you made a comment, I (and a couple of others) thought it violated guidelines for talk page behavior, I removed it--and really that's all there is to it. I got no problem with you, and you can complain as much as you like as long as it's not too disruptive. Also, I don't work for Harvard either--does that help? Drmies (talk) 14:55, 6 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
What, I should just sit around while ol' BGwhite just makes up stuff up (e.g. that I work for Harvard)? I understand what you're saying, but I feel the best thing you can do (for me, for you, and for WP) is to speak up yourself and say what you think. These people are out of control.
Thanks for the complements re DYK. I'm not mad at you re GA, but I do think you misunderstand what the standard is meant to be there, along with most everyone else at GA, which is why it seems few quality editors care about GA status for articles anymore -- articles get GA status for conforming to very cramped ideas of what articles should look (not stated in the GACR, though) with little regard for whether they're anything anyone would actually care to read. EEng (talk) 13:47, 6 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Your contribution to the day's events is of course most welcome. As mentioned to Ritchie above, though, speaking up at the venue is important too almost as important. At heart this intolerance of criticism is a serious threat to the project. EEng (talk) 13:47, 6 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I think we'll just have to put Widener behind us, but on the general principle I am in pretty much agreement with your views on GAs; on more than a few occasions (eg: Talk:1988–94 British broadcasting voice restrictions/GA1) I have passed a GA with a comment like "well we've got issues with x, y and z but they're not part of the GA criteria so I'm passing anyway". IMHO the following are not required to pass GA : infoboxes, templates, categories, URLs for print sources that happen to be online, non-free images, audio files, an inline source at the end of each paragraph, links to other articles, any external links .... I could go on.
Even so, I would say this : although you generally have free reign to run your talk page as you see fit, you don't WP:OWN it. Not everyone appreciates my sense of humour either, but arguing about it isn't a particularly productive use of your time. In this instance an admin has implemented consensus from ANI to not include something on your user page and while you didn't directly revert, you have effectively stuck two fingers up at it. I think we'll draw a line under this conversation now and hope it goes away, because all it takes is one cheesed off admin to look at it and you'll be in trouble. Let's hope Martin can fatally wound the dispute with some sarcasm before we can finally kill it off with irony. Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 15:01, 6 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I haven't checked out your userpage in a long while, but I laughed so hard (I particularly liked the "head in the sand" picture) I nearly snorted coffee out of my nose. PS: I would like to apologise for being tempted to go to the dark side.... Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 12:30, 20 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Agree, great comments... Hafspajen (talk) 20:09, 27 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Good ole Godwin
You're missing some excellent fulfillment of the prophesy on ANI: [46]. Softlavender (talk) 01:48, 4 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Excellent perhaps, but unintelligible certainly. EEng (talk) 02:16, 4 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I don't care if others appreciate your humor or not. I do! Your posts give me many a laugh. And thanks for your many clever emendations to hooks in the preps, like this one. Yoninah (talk) 22:56, 4 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
A barnstar for you!
The Barnstar of Good Humor
I lost track of the number of times you literally made me laugh out loud while reading your comments. The latest being this - NQ(talk) 20:12, 24 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think you meant to do this. Eman235/talk 22:12, 18 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed, and thanks for catching it. For some reason stuff like that only happens when I'm being a smartalec. EEng (talk) 22:42, 18 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
^Consult your doctor before trying this medicine. Symptoms include: a systemic allergic reaction, a worsening of withdrawal symptoms for not placing {{ANI-notice}} in months, and casting the first stone.
Where have you been lately?
I know they say no one's indispensable, but in the case of catchy hooks, you have been the only one doing anything about it. Where have you been lately? I really felt I had nothing but "blah" to work with while assembling Preps 3 and 4 last night. The part about hooks being "hooky" should be written in the rules in blood! Yoninah (talk) 09:12, 28 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, beating back the philistine forces of Professional Wikiism and Stultified Solemn Dignity [47] has left little time for actual hooking. But I did manage to get in [48]
I will probably catch hell for this, but my patience has run out. Will you please stop making personal attacks against The Rambling Man on WT:DYK and anywhere else. I'm dead against blocking established contributors, but other admins are not, as you well know. Attacks don't help your argument, it just means people either think the other party is right or ignore the conversation. Please, do something else. Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 10:14, 11 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Are you fucking kidding? Where were you yesterday when he said I "continually accept, even promote, the mediocre"? Making accusations requires evidence, which he has twice coyly refused to give. He's been insulting everyone at DYK on a daily basis now for months, and it's time someone bells the cat. EEng (talk) 10:19, 11 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Is that like Fritz the Cat, but with a bigger clapper? Martinevans123 (talk) 10:29, 11 June 2015 (UTC) I'm all in favour of the mediocre, as it makes ny rubbish look good.[reply]
What am I doing to the cat? [49]Belle (talk) 10:51, 11 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, Belle, for some welcome comic relief. EEng (talk) 11:04, 11 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
To be fair, I am not happy about TRM referring to DYK as "horseshit" either, but when I look at the arguments presented, his are geared more towards content, and yours seem more geared towards him as a person. Why can't you just get along? I see Bencherlite has presented a pretty good summary of how to quell this dispute, and I would take that good advice at face value. Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 10:48, 11 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
No, he hasn't. He's giving TRM carte blanche to continue his constant denigration of other editors, now including me directly. As I explain here [50] TRM's a liar who says whatever pops into his head. EEng (talk) 10:55, 11 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
A typical cart blanche (note use of "soaked head").
Did you know ... “that the cart blanche was invented by supermarket entrepreneur and inventor of the shopping cart Sylvan Goldman.?” Martinevans123 (talk) 15:21, 11 June 2015 (UTC) I had a cart blanche once, but it wouldn’t go in a straight line. [reply]
Thanks, drive-by-admin-without-a-clue! EEng (talk) 02:41, 13 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
That may be, but given that calling people liars is covered by NPA, if someone continually does it after being asked to stop, they generally end up blocked. Believe me, I know how you feel. Viriditas (talk) 03:03, 13 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Well, repeatedly referring to someone's "continual acceptance, even promotion, of the mediocre" [51], with the clear implication that I'm doing it on purpose in contravention of policy-- and just to be clear, I'm neither doing in on purpose, nor doing it at all (I don't do DYK reviews nor put prep sets together) -- then refusing to back that statement up, is also a personal attack, but none of the drive-by admins give a shit about that. (It's worth noting, BTW, that none of the admins who regularly hang out at DYK -- all of whom were uninvolved, cared to block.) In case you missed it, check this [52] out to see who's actually working to improve quality at DYK, and who's just complaining. EEng (talk) 03:19, 13 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
This isn't any drive-by; I read the discussions and have WT:DYK on my watchlist (I used to comment there often). You'll also note that I only blocked after the last spat, which none of the other admins saw. If you have a problem with this block, please request an unblock and/or go to ANI—I am always happy to bring any actions I take as an administrator in front of a wider forum. Ed[talk][majestic titan] 03:31, 13 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, right, like anyone in his right mind would submit an unblock request or take it to ANI -- not that I give a shit about a 31-hour block, or any block like this really. They're monuments to the dysfunction of the admin system.
But how about if I just ask you: if you read the thread, how do you see this [53] fitting into the picture? Do you think it's OK for an editor (an admin at that) to go around saying things like that (and he's been saying it about me for almost a year) with impunity? See, I don't give a shit about being blocked, but I do give a shit about aspersions about my editing, competency, and adherence to policy and guidelines. So again, please explain how what I said at that diff figured into your decision to block.
And while you're at it, given that you felt block(s) were needed (and they weren't -- TRM and I are perfectly capable of taking care of ourselves), please complete your sentence addressed to TRM here --
I seriously debated blocking you as well for blatant baiting.
-- using the word but, as in --
I seriously debated blocking you as well for blatant baiting, but I didn't because _______________________.
You fill in the blank, please. EEng (talk) 03:58, 13 June 2015 (UTC) P.S. The [name of impressive laboratory device] is warmed up now, so I'll be gone until sometime tomorrow -- take your time.[reply]
(a) Only one person was making personal attacks. (b) You had been warned. I actually came here to warn you, and blocked only after I saw this section. I'm done engaging here. Ed[talk][majestic titan] 04:16, 13 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
And so, having ignored both questions, the drive-by admin declares the discussion closed and drives on. So much for WP:ADMINACCT:
Administrators are expected to respond promptly and civilly to queries about their Wikipedia-related conduct and administrator actions and to justify them when needed.
Only blocking one party in this playground squabble seems a bit unbalanced. I think I'd personally take "continual acceptance, even promotion, of the mediocre" as a personal attack. As EEng points out he doesn't "do DYK reviews nor put prep sets together". It's a shame that Old Rambler hadn't "done engaging" a lot sooner too. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:35, 13 June 2015 (UTC) p.s. I thought it was EEng's hopelessly juvenile "orgasm" comment that tipped the balance and led you to block him for "disruptive editing"?[reply]
I am unblocking based on "time served", on the T:DYK thread being hatted, and on TRM asserting on my talk that he will not continue the feud, shrugging it off as "a clash of egos". Since we can't leave people blocked when the cause of disruption goes away, I'm doing it now. There now follows a choice of viewing. On BBC ANI, a discussion on censorship between Derek Hart, the Bishop of Woolwich and a nude man, and on BBC Eeng, me telling you this. And now....Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 09:01, 13 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I appreciate the gesture, Ritchie, but I'd rather that during the dispute you'd taken the time to see what Martin sees so clearly above: TRM attacked me repeatedly (and falsely) with impunity, and when I finally told him to shove it up his ass, I got blocked. EEng (talk) 15:57, 13 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
"Cut to a group of Gumbys, all with rolled-up trousers and knotted handkerchiefs on their heads, attempting to shout in unison and failing miserably." ... what are you suggesting?? Martinevans123 (talk) 09:10, 13 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Well I often do think "My brain hurts" when reading ANI.... Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 09:13, 13 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Barnstar!
The Barnstar of Good Humor
For your wit, constructive sarcasm and edgy humor, your perspective and contributions, sometimes contentious but worth it. I could bet serious money that your wiki-adventures here may someday be the start of a novel novel.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 11:19, 12 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Well, hello there, stranger. Where have you been? Perhaps you'll enjoy my latest effort, Charles R. Apted. Will you be visiting Cambridge anytime soon? EEng (talk) 02:41, 13 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Martin, I was talking to Tom's Ulcer, not you. That's what the overindenting is for, remember??? Geesh. EEng (talk) 15:33, 13 June 2015 (UTC) But you're welcome too.[reply]
Sooner or later I will probably visit Cambridge and perhaps we can arrange a get-together. Hope you are doing fine. I'll check out Charles R. Apted.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 09:50, 13 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
"Does my overindent look big in this?" Martinevans123 (talk) 17:36, 13 June 2015 (UTC) [reply]
"Lord St. Simon"
Regarding the query in your edit summary on The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes, the Baring-Gould commentary to NOBL describes "Lord St. Simon" as a "solecism," because St. Simon was a second son. But if that is so, it is a solecism that was perpetrated by Conan Doyle (or should I say Dr. Watson?) himself, and so we probably should feel comfortable leaving it. Regards, Newyorkbrad (talk) 20:32, 24 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, I remembered that B-G had said something about this, but I'm at that age where I'm sometimes too lazy to get out of my chair to go find out exactly what. Thanks for taking the time. But who's this Conan Doyle? EEng (talk) 21:01, 24 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
He reportedly had some ill-defined role in relaying Watson's accounts of the Adventures to the editors of The Strand. Newyorkbrad (talk) 21:13, 24 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Barnstar of Good Humor
The Barnstar of Good Humor
Here, add another to your collection. You had me shaking. [54] ~ RobTalk 20:36, 9 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Seconded—although, to be fair, it seems our colleague's primary concern was actually that the article would lead to sweeping bans on meat consumption, and that incensed meat lovers, driven savage by frustrated bloodlust, would seek gory revenge at health food stores. FourViolas (talk) 20:55, 9 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
In the future, when you make edits like this, i.e. quoting extensively from the prose of an article written by someone else, followed or preceded by sweeping, judgmental exegeses like "classic OR", it is generally a good idea to let the editor in question know so they have an opportunity to respond. In this case, you didn't, and I feel somewhat blindsided.
In the same vein, disparaging the votes that are going against you in an AfD isn't a particularly good idea, either. There is a lot more to them than just "passes GNG".
That said, in the case of some of the excerpts you posted I am amenable to making changes. However this will have wait till later next week when I have returned from Mexico, where I'm at Wikimania right now. I just don't have the time or the resources right now. The DYK nom is being held open pending the resolution of the AfD, which I don't think will have happened by then, so there's no rush. Daniel Case (talk) 23:03, 18 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
You've been around long enough to know you should keep your own DYK nominations watchlisted. The term is nothing more than a neologism for an age-old phenomenon that does not itself merit an article: young people who don't know how to dress at work. The OR is extensive, the article a kind of coatrack for stories of mis-attired young people who happen to work, specifically, in Congress. EEng (talk) 23:47, 18 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm. No apology whatsoever, no consideration given to the idea that I might have had hurt feelings, not even transparently insincere lip service. Instead, a lecture (which you should not have presumed to give) on how you think I'm supposed to handle my workload (something not even the Eric Corbetts of the world would have done), and a clear demonstration of your congenital inability to drop the proverbial stick (but perhaps I shouldn't be so harsh ... like far too many other Harvard legacy admits, you've got it too far up your ass to reach ).
I knew I was right not to check back here.
Keep up like this, and one of these days you're going to be sitting in front of the ArbCom, nervously twitching as they decide whether you will have any future at the project to speak of. When that day comes, count on me not being among those pleading on your behalf. Daniel Case (talk) 06:16, 31 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Do you really want transparently insincere lip service?
There's nothing to apologize for, and I have no idea what you mean about a "lecture". As Template_talk:Did_you_know#To_nominate_an_article says, "Make sure the nomination page is on your watchlist, so you can follow the review discussion."
Should I ever end up at Arbcom (and it happens to the best of us) I'll just stand on my record, thanks very much. Being blocked for calling someone—the blocking admin himself, in fact!—a "self-satisfied roving enforcer" is hardly a badge of shame [55], especially when an admin such as yourself feels free to refer to another editor's "congenital inability to drop the proverbial stick (but perhaps... like far too many other Harvard legacy admits, you've got it too far up your ass to reach)."
Anyway, sorry to disappoint you but my parents were the first in their (working-class) families to attend college—state schools, by the way—so no legacy I. Scholarship, too—does that fill you with even more resentment and anger?
@Daniel Case: I'm sorry for your hurt feelings. It must be upsetting to have your article criticized so comprehensively.
Even so, I wonder if you'd like to strike any of your comment. It's probably not the place of a relatively new user like myself to remind you to comment on content, not contributors, but I'm saddened to see an oversighter resort to an ad hominem vulgarity over an AfD. WP consensus on the limits of civility may have its vagaries, but one's interlocutors' anuses are generally not discussed IRL. FourViolas (talk) 06:03, 1 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I think we can all agree that the less oversight of interlocutory anuses, the better, though of course this isn't real life. EEng (talk) 07:06, 1 August 2015 (UTC) I think you may be confusing ad hominem arguments with ad homonym arguments. That happens a lot since they sound alike. (I've made that joke before but I like to trot it out now and then.)[reply]
Zenobia
This is not Zenobia
Ceci n'est pas une pipe.
Neither is this
I just added Zenobia (bird) to the DYK stats page, and that reminded me that I wanted to thank you for your work on the article. Hooks/articles that I encounter among the nominations which I actually find interesting are, unfortunately, about as rare as those poor birds, so I was really glad that we were able to salvage this one for DYK. Sorry that your desired hook couldn't be used, but the one that made it to the Main Page got over eight thousand hits. MANdARAX•XAЯAbИAM 01:35, 22 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Happy to help. Imagine the clicks, though, if we'd been able to use Ibis/ISIS! Call on me any time. EEng (talk) 04:52, 22 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
You did the same thing I did years ago, when I created a userbox with the image File:MagrittePipe.jpg and a caption "This is not a userbox." Here I managed to beat the bot before it could drop by to unceremoniously remove the non-free image, and have instead replaced it with a crude substitute. MANdARAX•XAЯAbИAM 07:38, 22 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I don't even know what to put here, I'm laughing too hard
I will admit that I stand with User:Softlavender. You're talk page is hilarious! Well done at getting into so many hilarious scenarios and being able to be both serious and humorous as needed!
You deserve every single one of these that you get:
Hello E. I got a chuckle out of this though I am not sure if that will be the reaction of everyone. Should someone start editing from the great beyond I think a new SPI report (that would be a spookpuppet investigation) would need to be opened. Cheers. MarnetteD|Talk 17:35, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I specialize in quips that not everyone thinks are funny. It's kind of an art. EEng (talk) 20:26, 19 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps we need a Biography of Undead Persons Noticeboard. Show some respect you zombiephobes! Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 06:35, 20 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Sooooo tempted to type something on that page and have Ritchie explain his way out of that (yes, fingers would be pointed straight at him when queried). Softlavender (talk) 12:24, 20 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Looking ahead
This made me laugh out loud. I volunteer to write those policies. Sarah(talk) 17:25, 20 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Don't worry, soon someone will stop by to scold me for it. And if not for that one, then certainly for this one [56]. Don't forget to stop by the museums while you're here. EEng (talk) 17:40, 20 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Ill-considered ANI filing
This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. 930310 (talk) 14:22, 16 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Another colossal waste of editor time [57] brought to you by those who refuse to accept guidelines and policy. EEng (talk) 03:31, 17 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Sum Ying Fung
Barred from the US in 18xx because of the Chinese Exclusion Act, she was later smuggled into the US by...
...Where did you get the idea of "the US" from? Deryck C. 09:14, 18 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Isn't Canada a wholly owned subsidiary of the US? EEng (talk) 18:33, 18 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
*Watches the Canadian Parliament write up the EEng Exclusion Act 2015* Well, someone just got barred for life. Now, for the smugglers. Cheers, Drcrazy102 (talk) 22:03, 18 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Big deal. Who wants to visit that frozen wasteland anyway? EEng (talk) 23:25, 18 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. The memory of appreciative comments from my glittering salon of (talk page stalker)s will be a great comfort as the anti-bullying bullies apply the electrodes to my genitals. EEng (talk) 00:28, 3 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, EEng I think we'd all value a little more civiity bullying consistency around here, if you don't mind! MarjoryManners123 (talk) 23:48, 2 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
What's civiity? EEng (talk) 23:56, 2 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
While this looks suspiciously like a barnstar, it's actually a prison tattoo.Once you've seen one content dispute, you've seen 'em all!
You've won a free trip to WikiJail!
The discussion at WT:CIVILITY is hilariously ironic. You being (or being perceived as being) uncivil, then getting uncivil templates on your talk page because of it. Eman235/talk 00:04, 10 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I just did a random sample of my DYK noms (uno, dos, tres) and all three have the DYK banner at the bottom. It's more that I'm amused when bots can't agree amongst themselves what to do ;-) Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 17:34, 14 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
It is good to know I have an ally when trouble arises. Thank you for your cogent and temperate support. I owe you other communication. One of these days, perhaps when you have given up all hope. In the meantime, if you would like me to set up auto-archiving on your page here, let me know; I'd be happy to help. Hertz1888 (talk) 20:22, 17 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
In this edit I was going to request that you or Hafspajen find an image of a rescued martyr indignantly demanding to be cast back into the flames (or whatever), but I got distracted. EEng (talk) 20:50, 15 January 2016 (UTC)
[reply]
Words fail. When you unblock me, please make sure your entry in the block log makes clear the nature of your original action in instituting the block; the words "outrageous", "tone-deaf", "absurd", "ridiculous", and "incompetent" would all be good choices. EEng (talk) 06:40, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
P.S. And don't forget to restore my user and talk pages to their prior state. EEng (talk) 06:47, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
A 48 hour block would have been appropriate for the shitty attitude you have been laying down at ANI. While it may be fun and jokes you were getting into topics that did not involve you and grinding your axe. You were adding heat to situations that did not need heat added to them. The indef was over the top, but your behaviour was not so innocent either. The block was excessive but did not occur in a vacuum. Really if a reasonable length block has been made it would have stuck, so don't act too self-righteous. HighInBC 16:17, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
HighInBC: Pardon me, but what in the world are you talking about? "Grinding axe" -- huh? Here's every ANI post I made in the week before the block. Which ones are in any way inappropriate?
If you're one of these people who thinks that humor doesn't have a useful purpose, including (or even especially) in difficult situations, then please add yourself to the list of admins whose experience of the world is sufficiently limited that you should probably leave behavioral blocks, other than obvious vandalism, to those with a broader perspective and more social clue. EEng (talk) 16:46, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I don't accept your false dichotomy. The fact is you are going to topics that don't involve you and taking up space commenting on things that in no way help the situations. I don't think that thinking this is annoying and unhelpful means I don't think humour has a useful purpose. Your humour is taking the form of telling people off. If I have made your "list of admins" that is too bad, but perhaps consider that your behaviour is also a factor. HighInBC 16:57, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
HighInBC: Again: huh? Of the three posts above, one was an image adding harmless comic relief to the otherwise dreary ANI landscape, and the other three were absolutely serious comments on what was going on (though (d) also carried my notorious ribbing for Drmies). So false dichotomy or not, I must insist that you answer: which of those justified my being blocked? That's a very serious charge, so either put up or shut up. Or do you, like Nakon, just shoot from the hip, and stonewall when called to account? EEng (talk) 17:59, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I think a trout may have been sufficient. I know you are having trouble seeing your comments as disruptive, not sure how I can convince you otherwise. HighInBC 18:11, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed, or maybe a small supply of trouts. EEng is often frustrating and exasperating. But I am pretty sure that we dont have a policy that makes that in itself a cause for an indefinite block.·maunus · snunɐɯ· 18:29, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
HighInBC: Oh, I see. First you cast this as "a difference of opinion on what justifies an indef block" [64]. When that turned out to be ridiculous, you wanted 48 hours. Now it's a trout. Have you no idea how corrosive to the project are this kind of careless and imperious pronouncements on the fate of us peons?
Yes, I'm having trouble "seeing [my] comments as disruptive", because you've dodged my repeated demands that you say what talking about. And now that Nakon has issued a full (and very gracious) retraction and apology [65], you're alone in insisting that I did anything wrong at all. So you have two choices now: admit you were just shooting your mouth off, or make it obvious you're one of those people who has to always insist he's right, no matter what. (I put that last bit in big-bold so that, since you undoubtedly will continue to bob and weave, it will be obvious to everyone, at a glance, what's going on here.) EEng (talk) 10:45, 10 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
You are to be commended for graciously accepting Nakon's apology. Now, that seems like an odd thing to say, but around here, some people are only interested in perpetuating the drama no matter what. MANdARAX•XAЯAbИAM (a fellow back pain sufferer) 21:17, 10 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
EEng, it is obvious from HighinBC's comments that he is a prime example of what I have been saying for years about administrators around here. Their first rule- Protect their own. High's defense of a outrageously bad block which was followed by a pathetic defense that no one but the hardcore administrators will ever defend. What Nakon did is just another example of why administrators are allowed to get away with almost anything whereas we editors get routinely shafted on a regular basis....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 16:04, 10 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I'm genuinely puzzled by HighinBC's views, because I have always regarded High as someone with good judgment (and I'll refrain from suggesting any relationship between height and cough syrup). I guess it just comes down to the difficulty of assessing humor online. EEng, I hope your back feels better soon. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:21, 10 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Ditto. He used to be pretty chilled out, din't he? But now he's just "High"? Is one expected to simply jump? Martinevans123 (talk) 22:31, 10 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Courtesy notice for Nakon's block review at AN
This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Dr.K. 06:15, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. While you guys are at it, you might take a look at Nakon's reversion (here) of my clearly constructive changes (which, while fit subjects for discussion as all edits are, certainly don't deserve a high-handed no-edit-summary trashing). Perhaps this is Nakon's subtle way of underscoring the need for effective mechanisms for recall of heavy-handed admins who, having made essentially no edits in six months [66], suddenly appear out of nowhere to throw their weight around in situations they know nothing about, then mysteriously go silent when called to account. EEng (talk) 06:40, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I've restored the edits to Deletion process. Looks pretty strongly like a rollback by mistake, so I've assumed as such and undone it. —/Mendaliv/2¢/Δ's/ 06:58, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
P.S. I fully agree with IJBall in this edit; I'm happy to remain blocked as long as it take for Nakon to come to his senses. Wikipedia doesn't need me nearly as much as it needs to come to grips with the problem of this kind of admin. EEng (talk) 06:42, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Nice to see you online. I am confident this will be resolved soon enough. Best regards. Dr.K. 06:53, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Unfortunately a cramped ride in a crowded taxi recently left me with a herniated disk. It hurts like the dickens, so until it's treated on Monday I have to get up every 2-3 hours and walk around to relieve the pressure on the spine.
If you look at my block log you'll see I'm quite used to this kind of crap, and I hope it won't sound wrong when I say I wasn't worried for a second about how this would turn out. I appreciate your taking the time to get the ball rolling on clearing things up, and when this is all over please take a few moments to visit the Museums. EEng (talk) 07:06, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Fwiw, I wasn't worried about the long term either, since this case is clearly that of a bad block but, as you say, I simply wanted to get the ball rolling to resolve this as soon as possible given always the on-wiki constraints. Thank you for your kind words EEng and for the invitation to the museums. Very interesting places indeed. :) I wish you a speedy recovery and a Happy New Year! Dr.K. 07:20, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I have unblocked, as this is clearly an unjustified block and current consensus agrees. Blocking for that reason, without discussion, was not acceptable. Discussion will carry on at AN, I'm sure. WormTT(talk) 09:36, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, though I would have preferred that Nakon clean up his own mess. I assume he'll be restoring my talk page, of course. EEng (talk) 13:31, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I considered leaving you blocked a couple of people suggested (and you agreed), but I refuse to see a bad block stay in place until the blocking admin sees the light. Especially as the blocking admin hadn't posted for 3 hours. If you want to take it further, go ahead, I'll be willing to comment in any forum you bring it to. WormTT(talk) 14:37, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
One more comment, and then I'm going back to suffering horizontally for a few hours instead of vertically... With regard to this comment [67] by IJBall: Obviously Nakon make a mistake, but it was a mistake no admin should ever, EVER be making. Consider the exchange which Nakon cited [68] as the basis for blocking me:
Even though I'm an Arbcom member, I'm just commenting here as an average, everyday editor.
Drmies: "Next time just post on EEng's talk page. Not only do they know a thing or two about Wikipedia policy, they also have lots of time on their hands."
EEng: "Drmies, shouldn't you be cabaling with your fellow Arbcom-ers?"
Next to my comment, I posted the image you see at right. Someone who can't see that Drmies was teasing me, and I was teasing him/her (I'll figure out which someday) back, shouldn't be an admin, much less (as Nakon is) on the OTRS and UTRS teams.
Add to this the facts that...
everyone knows that Drmies is perfectly capable of taking care of himself/herself;
Nakon, asked to account for his actions, still failed to see the absurdity of what he'd done, pointing to the completely innocent exchange (quoted above) as justification for the block; and
Nakon, by blocking both my email-this-user and my talkpage access, was forcing me to appeal my block through the very UTRS system for which he is one of the gatekeepers...
...then we have here either grossly poor judgment or heedless arrogance. Take your pick.
Hey EEng, sorry I missed the party--that was a bad block and I suppose Nakon knows this by now. FWIW, I enjoyed your comment, as wrong as it was--when you made it I was either doing dishes, singing karaoke, reading Paul Theroux, or sleeping--or all four simultaneously. The secret ArbCom cabal doesn't meet anymore on Fridays (don't tell anyone) in part because of all the young people, like Kirill, GW, Keilana, and DGG; Friday nights it's usually dancing and then Waffle House. I'm obviously not invited to those events. Again, my apologies for that block; may we have many more fringey conversations together. Try not to get a spike through your head. Happy Saturday morning, Drmies (talk) 14:49, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
No, I doubt Nakon understands how wrong what he did is (though of course he understands everyone else is telling him it was wrong). I suspect he rationalizes it as just a minor mistake. You know me well enough to know I don't give a whit, for myself, about being blocked, but the demoralizing effect of this kind of behavior on the rank and file is substantial. You have a forgiving nature, but please consider what I said at AN [69]:
I don't think it aggrandizes my momentary martyrdom to say that the outcome of this thread will tell us plebians once and for all whether admins are subject to even the most minimal standards of accountability, or can do whatever the fuck they want with no meaningful consequences, ever. Imagine if I'd been a new user—score another one for editor retention!
I, and many others I'm sure, would like to see you take the lead in not letting this end up just another monument to uncontrolled admin misbehavior. If I may suggest you might start by emailing Nakon and making clear to him that he's expected to participate in the AN discussion. EEng (talk) 15:35, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I've spent a few hours today looking into Nakon and his actions. He's not a bad admin, he's hard working and a massive benefit to the encyclopedia. It just seems that last night he went... off. I've put detailed explanation of the issues at his talk page - but given his history, unless he comes back and goes off the deep end, I don't believe that anything is going to come out of this. Everyone is allowed to make mistakes, and as far as I can see, this is a one-off mistake. I'll be keeping an eye on what happens and may well have more to say. WormTT(talk) 15:56, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you Worm. EEng, I have not seen the AN discussion (unless I edited from my phone, in which case I don't know what I did, haha) but I'll have a look. Drmies (talk) 16:15, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Holy bleep, EEng! I was logged out throughout this entire fiasco, but now that I've seen it, I am appalled at what happened to you. Heck, you've said way worse to me, and I don't have a problem with anything you said to me. There was nothing remotely block-worthy here. At least this particular admin came around to making a genuine apology, which I think does count for something. In any case, your literal pain in the back sounds far worse than the figurative pain in the neck, and at least there was no iron through the skull, so I wish you a rapid recovery, even though you clearly never lacked for a spine! Best wishes, --Tryptofish (talk) 22:33, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Hey, EEng, I hope that your injured back is starting to feel better! --Tryptofish (talk) 18:17, 12 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia is something of a millstone round our necks. After some such tribulation, I started a page about Tennyson's poem and, by coincidence, I notice a burst of activity there, years later. See also illegitimi non carborundum... Andrew D. (talk) 10:33, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Though the mills of God grind slowly; Yet they grind exceeding small;
Though with patience He stands waiting, With exactness grinds He all.
I've been around in Wikipedia for a while now, love EEng's humor, and don't know the particulars of what the current dispute is about, but my two cents is that an indefinite block is way too much punishment, that we need sharp guys like EEng in Wikipedia if only to help others think, and that EEng does contribute to the encyclopedia. But I haven't examined this subject in depth -- it is my two cent opinion.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 13:06, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Lack of in-depth examination was the problem here, Tomwsulcer. As an ArbCom member I charge more than two cents for my opinion, of course. Kelapstick, what's our going rate? And do we accept gold nuggets and bauxite? Drmies (talk) 14:53, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I suppose I could charge more than my two cents for an in-depth examination, but I'd probably fall asleep mid-examination on this one. Good idea to keep me off of ArbCom for the foreseeable future; better yet, we'll pay you ArbCom members in 100% pure bauxite for your judgments.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 18:22, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Tomwsulcer, are you gonna make that trip to Boston any time soon? EEng (talk) 18:37, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Sooner or later I'll probably visit Boston again. Right now, I'm promoting my new novel Jakk's Journey about, as you may have guessed, a high school boy who builds a spaceship, flies to Betelgeuse, meets sexy aliens, has adventures, and learns how to become a human! Sooner or later Jakk may get a page in Wikipedia.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 22:42, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
WikiJail! I told you! Honestly, though, this is like a judge who got annoyed at that guy in the peanut gallery, and gave him a life sentence. Eman235/talk 18:45, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I have no previous knowledge of Nakon, but I see that he may in fact be an Obotrite leader who flourished 954 – ca. 966. Well he's certainly not flourishing now, I'd say. I'm sure it's very easy to react, on the spur of the moment, to comments at AN/I which don't immediately appear to be constructive. But in this case, I think a lot of editors who have been watching from the sidelines, think he may have made what is commonly termed "a mistake". I'm just wondering if he should admit that, or even offer some kind of apology as a result? Or maybe he thinks that admins all "reside in a "ringwall" of fortresses"? And that whatever mistake one administrator makes can be neatly corrected by the prompt action of a second administrator? It would be nice to know. Just as a detail of medieval Slavic tribal history, of course. Remnant Visa 123 (talk) 20:41, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
p.s. well I obviously should have checked before I started writing this! He has done the very noble and polite thing and offered an unreserved apology. And that's something that, in general, is rarer than hen's teeth around here. I have great respect for that and I applaud him for his honesty. A Tanner Vims 123 (talk) 20:56, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
...Wow. Rather odd, sociologically speaking, that a mouse click and a few comments from a rhinovirally impaired Internet user could have caused such consternation among so many. Glad to have you back, EEng, and please don't take it out on your poor fellow invalid; as AirmanVents notes, we don't say sorry to our friends when we hurt their feelings as often as we should, and those who do so are greatly to be admired. Pip pip, rest well! FourViolas (talk) 02:58, 10 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Restored headers and messages
Hi EEng sorry to see what happened, personally I appreciate your sense of humor. Anyway I've taken the liberty of restoring your page headers, and also all of your old messages have been moved to User talk:EEng/Archive 3. So your talk page is fixed a bit better anyway. Good luck with things --Jules(Mrjulesd) 21:24, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Something to Brighton up this talk page. Welcome to...The New EEng Show!Eman235/talk 22:53, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I guess there's an upside to everything. At least this talk page got archived. Yipee! --Tryptofish (talk) 22:56, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry to disappoint, but as most of know I prefer to let it all hang out, so for the moment I've restored everything. However, I promise to do at least some archiving soon, or maybe reorganize into subpages. Not just now, but soon. Thanks to everyone for their marvelous performances in the latest production of Through the Looking-Glass, and What EEng Found There. EEng (talk) 11:22, 10 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Aagh! (Tryptofish runs crying from the room.) It breaks my computer again! (And are you sure you want to talk about letting it all hang out in a discussion about it being too long? Sorry, I couldn't resist!) --Tryptofish (talk) 22:24, 10 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Contributions from friends near and far
You should have plenty of time to concentrate on you User Page and Talk Page from now on, EEng, "fnarr, fnarr".... A Rams Invent 123 (talk) 15:04, 9 January 2016 (UTC) p.s. but now very pleased, of course that your Talk Page is a reasonable length, at last. oh no! ... where's that new "dislike button" again? [reply]
spirale of justice
A Rams Invent 123, you wouldn't be implying EEng's Talk page was bloated, now, would you? Nah. Welcome back, EEng, missed ya. Now, how do I dispose of these "Justice for EEng" tee shirts? Hertz1888 (talk) 15:29, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Jimbo announces Greatest Stature Award, to be given annually in honor of EEng
I'm at a birthday party in London for Wikipedia – surrounded by the celebrities like Jimmy Wales and the WMUK crowd, cutting the birthday cake. They have a visualization of Wikipedia running on a big screen here and I was watching the edits just now. I recognised many of the topics and was especially tickled when I saw an edit to Phineas Gage pop up. I said, "I bet I know who did that – it must be EEng". I was right – don't you ever stop tinkering with this thing? Anyway, thanks for beavering away to provide the cabaret while we party on... Andrew D. (talk) 21:14, 16 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Even on the toilet, apparently... (Caption by EEng) "...now if I can just tamp down this blasting powder into this hole..." (Caption by ME123)
The day may come when I'll switch to maintenance mode for Gage, but not likely soon. Research continues.
Until recently I thought I toiled in obscurity, except of course for my periodic trips to ANI. It was a shock, therefore, when during the recent fiasco an editor commented that "Blocking an editor of EEng's stature is [something] [somethine] [something]". So apparently I've got stature—my mother is so proud! If you send a self-addressed, stamped envelope I'm giving free autographs for a limited time.
That visualization thingee is cute. I'm sorry to be missing the party. Re your userpage photo, I've been meaning to mention that I was in London recently (30% Gage research, 70% pleasure -- my favorite place in the world) and for the first was able to fit in some followup at BL. When I saw that sculpture of Newton out front I was instantly reminded of this quote from him:
I keep [a] subject constantly before me, and wait 'till the first dawnings open slowly, by little and little, into a full and clear light.
See right. EEng (talk) 22:02, 16 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
That's the one. When I first saw it, in situ, I honestly thought it was a guy on the toilet. I thought, "Why does the British Library have a statue of a guy on the toilet." EEng 03:22, 16 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Ignorant me, I never knew the Blake connection until now. I'm not sure anyone got the point of my caption at right. I had always remembered the quote, "I keep the subject constantly before me, and wait 'till the first dawnings open slowly, by little and little, into a full and clear light." So when I saw this statue of what appeared to be -- incongruously, here in the forecourt of the British Library -- a man sitting on the toilet, then saw that it was meant to be Newton, I thought, Well, I guess he really did keep the subject constantly before him! EEng 06:02, 16 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, You have more than 2,500 edits to Phineas Gage (talk+article), and still why this article is not good article or featured article? You have devoted your entire life for this article and you read this article daily for 700-800 times which is quite amazing thing. I think you should nominate it for FA. Your efforts worth more than FA. Currently that article has more than 37,000 characters/bytes, I hope one day you will have more edits to article than number of characters in article. That will be a distinct and unique record. Best of luck. Cheers. --Human3015 It will rain 16:27, 21 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
(talk page stalker) I cannot remember how long I've been stalking, or exactly why, but Harvard springs to mind, and this, the rather bitter dispute over it some time ago, between who I cannot remember, and do not care. wow. Point is that I've read the Gage article many times since, and it is fascinating, and thought you should know. -Roxy the dog™woof 16:40, 21 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
[FBDB] Goodness me, I thought some fool had tried to make it a "Good Article". But I can clarify that EEng has not devoted his whole life to this article. He has also spent whole years on the Museums on his Talk Page, in constructing the world's longest Talk Page, and in making inappropriate puns and convoluted lame jokes on other editor's Talk Pages. He deserves a permanent topic ban from Gage for relentless WP:OWN issues. Isn't that right Trippy? Martinevans123 (talk) 16:52, 21 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
That would be Prof Trippy to you! --Tryptofish (talk) 21:43, 22 January 2016 (UTC) [reply]
[FBDB] Personally I think maybe the topicban should be broader, as I sense that maybe EEng has a close personal connection to all articles about people whose brains have been damaged by metal bars.·maunus · snunɐɯ· 00:50, 22 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
[FBDB] I'm still sulking because he anagrammed my username to Prof Shitty! --Tryptofish (talk) 20:40, 21 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
You have to admit, "Prof. Shitty" is startlingly funny. You do know, BTW, that I got that from an anagram generator [71]? EEng 08:40, 22 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed, it's disturbingly apt! But here I thought that you were clever enough (FBDB) to have come up with it yourself. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:41, 22 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Too bad you're not a head chef (Fry This Pot) or a waiter with limited English (Try Pot Fish!). EEng 01:18, 23 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Try Pot Fish? Oh, no! I am a fish! Oh, but wait a minute... maybe that's the other kind of pot? Yes, then I'll try it! --Tryptofish (talk) 22:24, 23 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I should have thought of that, an exhortation to lessened seriousness: Try pot, Fish!. EEng 22:31, 23 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Fish heads emerging from mouse holes... a bargain: [1]
The photo of that pie is the only explanation that anyone needs for why the American Revolution took place. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:27, 23 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I'm all nurture, no nature. EEng 01:18, 23 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I've added my new {{FBDB}} template to some of the posts above, so no one gets blocked.
I appreciate the kind comments. My experience with GA has not been good, unfortunately, largely because (IMO) too many people do the one thing you're absolutely not supposed to do when reviewing, which is to impose their personal preferences (about what an article ought to look like) instead of sticking to the actual list of GA requirements. If people want to try again maybe the time is right, but here's what I'd ask to happen first: maybe everyone could take an informal look at the article versus the criteria (which are presented and discussed at WP:What_the_Good_article_criteria_are_not). Then problems can be fixed before nomination. Are there two or three of you who'd like to volunteer?
I'm not volunteering for that, and I have a hunch it's a recipe for a repeat of what has happened in the past. But – on the plus side, FBDB made me LOL! Well-played! --Tryptofish (talk) 21:37, 22 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I'm afraid you're right, but sooner or later someone's bound to nominate it, so better it be planned than a surprise. Anyone else? EEng 01:18, 23 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I'm afraid something like that is waaay above my pay-grade. I could use a "This isn't bullying, nor is it a personal attack" template though? -doxy the Rog™woof 16:42, 23 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thus we see the chilling effect of the roving enforcers, though in case it wasn't clear, what I'm asking for is an unofficial review against GA criteria, not an actual GA review. But anyway...
Veering off topic
Roxy the dog, I'll be happy to set up for you a {TIBNAPA} template -- "This Isn't Bullying, Nor A Personal Attack". Or maybe {TIBNAPAJAF} (which really rolls off the tongue) -- "This Isn't Bullying, Nor A Personal Attack, Just Adducing Facts. What would you want the documentation say? -- see Template:FBDB. EEng 17:16, 23 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
About the finger that one might give, I see from the TOC that there are now 208 sections to this talk page. I guess it's a baby-step in the right direction. But as Kirsten Dunst said in her film debut, "I want more!" (or actually, less). --Tryptofish (talk) 20:46, 24 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Since you seem to think engineers are mindless robots blindly applying rigid rules, - After I said, "I'm the engineer type"? Logic fault. ―Mandruss☎ 05:02, 26 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Mandruss, Did you notice the [FBDB] tag? While you're here, perhaps you'll take a moment to drop by the museums. EEng 05:53, 26 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, but it didn't say just how far your tongue was imbedded into your cheek area. Museum is cool and I wish I could feel that humorous when I'm at Wikipedia. I've been trained well, and it doesn't turn on and off very easily, so I generally just leave it off while I'm here. How sad is that? (Although I was cracked up by "with no respect intended".) ―Mandruss☎ 07:00, 26 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Glad I made your crack up.
(English idioms are really difficult to get right, eh?) BushelCandle (talk) 11:12, 29 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Absolubey. I wouldn't wish this dumb language on my worst enema. ―Mandruss☎ 11:16, 29 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
"Mindless robots blindly applying rigid rules"?? Oh, puh-leeze... just leave me alone, why dontcha!? Martinevans123 (talk) 23:51, 27 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I'd laugh if this kind of nonsense didn't represent such a colossal waste of editor time as you seek (unsuccessfully) salve for your bruised ego. EEng 19:14, 2 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
A request
Hi Eng, I'd appreciate it if you would not change the policies and guidelines around image sizes without consensus. It's a contentious issue and one that has caused a lot of bad feeling between editors in the past. People have to be given the chance to express a view about changes that might affect the way they edit, especially changes to policy. All the best, SarahSV(talk) 00:27, 29 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Your apology accepted in advance [73]. EEng 00:47, 29 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I couldn't see anything contentious in Adam's edit, whereas you removed this, for example, which is widely relied upon, implying in your edit summary that you thought it belonged in the MoS instead. If you want to downgrade something from policy to guideline, it's better to check on the talk page first. People need the policies to be pretty stable. SarahSV(talk) 01:22, 29 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Your link shows me removing something which wasn't there until Adam added it today, and the first part of my edit summary explained why I didn't think it should be added. So your idea that I was "downgrading something from policy to guideline" is completely wrong.
My edit summary's tail, anyway, this entire section really should be eliminated after merging to MOS/Images--doesn't belong here, was simply a suggestion for what we should do in the future to consolidate formatting advice, with the implication that in the meantime, we at least shouldn't be adding mere formatting stuff to Image Use Policy, thus exacerbating the already serious problem of fragmentation of that advice all over the place. EEng 01:38, 29 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Now that I've got that off my chest, let me say that I wouldn't be so pissy had this not been the second time in recent days you've got the wrong end of the stick. If you think any of my changes to WP:Manual of Style/Images were anything more than changes to organization and presentation -- that is, if you think any of my changes actually changed the actual advice being given in the guideline -- then please point out an example -- either something that got dropped, something that got added, or something that was substantively changed. Please note that what may at first appear to be new material e.g. the preference for upright and deprecation of px -- is in fact imported from longstanding provisions of WP:Image use policy, and obviously no discussion is needed before bringing that stuff over.
Certainly it's possible I might have inadvertently changed something substantive, but that's easily fixed and not an excuse for reverting the whole suite of changes which, I will modestly say, are a vast improvement over the prior vague, repetitive, randomly ordered presentation. Minor errors can just be fixed. EEng 01:45, 29 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I've lost track of what you're doing there and at the guideline, but you now seem to have restored something you earlier argued was new and should go. I wish you would leave things as they are. SarahSV(talk) 05:25, 29 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry. Thanks to all the confusion you've sown, I mistakenly reverted just the second of a pair of edits. Now fixed by BushelCandle[74].
"I wish you would leave things as they are." I wish you would take the time to figure out what's going on before butting in and getting everything mixed up -- removing nonsubstantive changes with a call to "get consensus", then reverting the removal of undiscussed substantive changes, again with a call to "get consensus". You've made an already confusing situation worse, as not just I have tried to explain to you a couple of times now. [75]EEng 10:21, 29 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
No response. Big surprise. EEng 04:27, 31 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Remember how much fun you had playing with blocks as a kid? Now that you're an mature adult, you can collect blocks with adult letters, and they're not only stackable, they're collectable. I even have some! Atsme📞📧 03:15, 13 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Disclaimer: Intended as humor. Pure pun-ishment.[76]
Eman235, in my case, the "clock started at the time of discovery, as with your belated reply which I just now read. My stackable WTF blocks probably run a close second to EEng's but I'd win hands-down if AE warnings for puns and emojis were counted. Atsme📞📧 02:01, 20 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Ha!! Your example was a malefunction whereas a rogue emoji is far more believable (and true) of a (computer) brain malfunction.Atsme📞📧 18:58, 20 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
....that and the laywomen's definition of men-o'pause, . Atsme📞📧 22:55, 24 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Laywomen? Now there's a euphemism. EEng 22:57, 24 March 2016 (UTC) If we keep this up I fear we're gonna get in trouble.[reply]
- it was a slip of the keyboard due to my irregular finger sizes. I'll try to be more careful in the future. [pause to treat rug burns from rotflmao]. Only you would have caught that - ❤️ your wit!!! Atsme📞📧 23:02, 24 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
If you don't understand the grammar, don't try to "improve" if you can't. There's no need for such a dickish edit summary either, which just compounds the show of ignorance. – SchroCat (talk)
You don't often see constructions of the form ; I'll add it to my treasury of especially clear writing exemplars. Also, it's a shame you corrected [77] your original post, because now my droll observation—
"There's boned for such a dickish edit summary"—what a curious way you have of expressing yourself!
—loses much of what modest punch it had in the first place.
Anyway, it's not always easy to guess which pretentious shibboleth you're harping on, but this time I'm guessing you hair's on fire about the shocking false title introduced here [78]. You realize, do you not, that denunciations from angry editor SchroCat (or should I say, "the angry editor SchroCat") are practically a badge of honor among the community at large? EEng 17:25, 30 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
If you don't have the intelligence to understand the difference in variants, then there's little I can do to lift you from the slough of ignorance you choose to inhabit. – SchroCat (talk) 17:38, 30 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Putting aside the question of whether that's actually what's going on, indeed you'd be the last person I'd nominate to lift someone from a slough of ignorance (you're so cute with those quaint expressions—you're like Maugham, except of course not really at all) so no disappointment there. But if that fantasy helps you sleep at night, by all means cherish it.
Sustained rounds of sputtering denunciation from you being particularly prized, can you please keep it up? And can you upload a photo of yourself turning various shades of red? I've added a placeholder at right. EEng 20:58, 30 March 2016 (UTC) You forgot to tell me whether the dread "false title" was the pretentious shibboleth troubling you.[reply]
No further entertainment was forthcoming, unfortunately. But nothing like a good dustup to draw a crowd [79]. EEng 01:56, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Validation of advisories...
Well, I noticed you received some very nice compliments from some members of Proj Med for doing something commendable, and because of that, I figured it elevated you to a level that I could trust your input regarding some warnings issued over a highly utilized cure for bashfulness. I thought it best to ask you directly rather than bother more important editors like Tryptofish and Doc James with such trivia, especially if there was no cause for alarm. Please watch the following video and let me know if you think there is any need for me to be concerned. [80]. Atsme📞📧 21:45, 1 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
There you have it, EEng. I am officially more important than you are. But of course we all knew that all along. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:58, 1 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Of course the true power is behind the throne. Oh but look, Your Majesty -- you have an important state dinner to attend just now. Don't worry, I'll mind the store. EEng 19:21, 2 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Tea, tequila, Tryptofish: all so nicely alliterative (even if I am being a pain in the assonance)! --Tryptofish (talk) 21:06, 2 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The Proj Med kudos are misleading, being based (most likely) on edit counts; I'm probably in the top N because of my 2000+ (no kidding) to a single article, Phineas Gage. Interestingly for your query, the remedy you're asking about has effects not entirely unlike those of the treatment Mr. Gage received i.e. an iron bar through the front of the brain, those effects including (to an extent not entirely clear) becoming a difficult person who can't make up his mind and stick to a plan. On the whole I think the "T" treatment is probably a better choice than that received by Mr. Gage.
Thank you indeed for bringing this matter to my attention. It will likely end up in one of the Museums in due course. EEng 22:09, 1 April 2016 (UTC) P.S. Talk page stalkers are encouraged to click the link in the OP.[reply]
I got your ping (which for reasons I cannot explain seems to me to be vaguely related to validations of advisories) at that DYK discussion. I've gotta say, my first reaction was confoundment that WP didn't until just recently have a page about that, then I realized it was because of promotion to GA, then I began to feel like it was April 1, and then I figured April 1 is over so I would not comment there and would instead come here. Anyway, I wish you and the other editors a fertile discussion. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:52, 3 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Fertile discussion -- and I suppose you think that's funny? EEng 21:41, 3 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Alternatively, maybe I'm just full of fertilizer. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:24, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
💩💩💩💩💩💩💩 <---- fertile discussion? Atsme📞📧 01:20, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
DYK needs more humor! Best, Yoninah (talk) 21:55, 4 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Well thank you, Yoninah! Since I'd just made my first nom in a long time, I thought I talk a walk down memory lane. Any maybe I will again now and then, but I don't think I'll be there regularly -- too much trouble for too little result. But feel free to call on me for my talents as a hooker. EEng 16:26, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Hey, Tryptofish, just noticed this. If you can get the article to GA, I'll come up with an off-color hook about male salmon and their big kypes. EEng 08:57, 25 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Probably not, but it took me an awfully long time just to find this section on your talk page. And stop groping the salmon with your tiny fins. --Tryptofish (talk) 15:39, 25 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
You probably mean reinstate, Einstein. You're a forum-shopping crank who's been harassing an established and respected user. Go soak your head. EEng 14:42, 17 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
meant restate, which you did on his talk page and again here...but reinstate too as far as the revert...your behavior is against policy and inappropriate. how long you've been "established" on here is no defense..68.48.241.158 (talk) 17:35, 17 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I see you've been blocked. Thanks for playing our game, though. EEng 22:30, 29 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Gödel's incompleteness theorems
Per the ArbCom motion, suggestions Hewitt makes on talk pages should be "brief", and Hewitt was reminded that he is still restricted from self-promotional editing per the original ArbCom case. The posted references do not contribute to the argument and are self-promotional. Do not act as the enabler of Hewitt. If you restore the material I removed again, you will be restricted from doing so. —Ruud 19:23, 20 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Ruud Koot, please lay off the threats against another experienced, good-faith editor i.e. me. What the restriction says is [81]
The purpose of this provision is to allow him to make suggestions on the talk pages of his own BLP (Carl Hewitt) and the talk pages of articles about his work. Suggestions should be polite and brief and should not be repetitively reposted if they do not find consensus.
Hewitt's original post was indeed brief [82] and even if you think it wasn't, that doesn't excuse what you're doing. If you want to mark it "edit request declined" that's fine; or if removal of his complete post is justified, that's fine; or if you think he's violating his restrictions then take that to the appropriate venue. But you should not be materially altering another's post [83] in a way that misleads others as to its content (in this case, making it look like he posted proposed text without sources -- inappropriate though those sources seem to be).
I think Hewitt's a crackpot, but that doesn't excuse your heavyhanded actions at the article talk, or your highhanded attitude here, and I expect a response per WP:ADMINACCT. David Eppstein, if I'm missing something in all this please enlighten me. EEng 20:12, 20 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Hewitt may or may not be a crackpot but he's also a sockpuppeteer, heavy self-promoter, and problem for the project. Hence his ban. If left to do what he wants he will filibuster the Gödel talk page into unusability; see the "arguments" links in the archive navbox of the talk page. So in this case, I do think it's reasonable to remove the comments (or move them to arguments). —David Eppstein (talk) 20:34, 20 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Like I said, removing Hewitt's post might be fine, but check the third link in my OP -- what was done was to silently modify his post very substantially, and that seems inadmissible under any circumstances -- wouldn't you agree? EEng 20:43, 20 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
No. You fail to see the tactic Hewitt is employing here: he posts a semi-legitimate point for discussion and then uses this as a coatrack for self-promotion, disrupting the talk page in the process. If the post is removed completely, he will claim that he is being "censored" and revert back to sockpuppeteering, causing more disruption to the talk page. Those references are tangential to the argument, and removing them thus do not "substantially alter" his argument. If he notices his self-promotionalism is not allowed to stand, he may eventually give up on this, without being able claim he was mistreated. Do not allow yourself to be played as pawn in Hewitt's game. —Ruud 21:54, 20 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, I wasn't asking if you agree, I was asking David Eppstein, whose comments so far support simple removal of Hewitt's post, or moving them elsewhere -- but not altering them. Inclined as Hewitt is already to claim he's being mistreated, you're giving him more ammunition by altering his post to remove the sources he'd included. I see nothing anywhere justifying such modification. Everyone can see the sources are self-promotional, so why don't you just let his post speak for itself (possibly assisted by a comment you add)?
I still haven't heard anything from you about your dickish threat against me. Admins who throw their weight around are a real hot button for me. EEng 22:38, 20 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
If that material is left to stand, it would incentivize Hewitt to post more of such material in the future. If the material is removed, it might discourage Hewitt from posting such material in the future. The latter would minimize the disruption of the talk page.
I consider the removal of this material arbitration enforcement. I will use my administrative tools to make sure this material stays removed, if necessary. I prefer not letting it come this, and am required to warn you before I would do so. If you disagree with my interpretation of the restrictions placed upon Hewitt, I suggest you take your issues to the ArbCom here. —Ruud 23:59, 20 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
An admin upholds one of the five pillars without throwing his weight around.
Again with the threats ("I will use my administrative tools to make sure this material stays removed, if necessary. I prefer not letting it come this, and am required to warn you before I would do so") instead of engaging what I've said. I guess I can add one to the count of highhanded dick admins who resort to threats as a substitute for engaging what another has said.
Just as I predicted, your altering of Hewitt's post has given him one more thing to complain about [84]. While he'd complain no matter what, this way a bystander (unable to see what the refs were) might mistakenly believe the refs were appropriate, and sympathize with Hewitt. Great work, Mr. Admin. EEng 14:45, 21 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
WPO watch out! Now Gawker sez all your internets are mine. --Tryptofish (talk) 00:24, 29 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Seriously, Tfish, I have no idea what any of that meant. EEng 05:20, 29 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, that wasn't one of my better efforts. WPO: where they also wikigroan. I was trying to say that they now have Gawker as competition. As for the latter part, woopsy, I was misremembering this. I hope that my errors didn't dampen your moo. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:18, 29 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Gahh now the world expects Wikipedians to walk around quoting Cato. Thanks. — Rhododendritestalk \\ 03:14, 29 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
My favorite bit is "Wikipedia’s principled editor’s are in no moo." EEng 05:18, 29 April 2016 (UTC) I'm (ahem) principled, so watch it with the comments, insects![reply]
Congrats from this insect on the fact that you actually archived something from your talk page! --Tryptofish (talk) 00:33, 2 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Topic ban
You're not allowed to revert edits because of a topic ban if the edits occurred BEFORE the ban. Please follow policy.--Sailor Haumea (talk) 21:19, 29 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I wasn't reverting because of your topic ban -- that was just additional information so other editors would know what we're dealing with here. There's absolutely zero patience for more of this longevity/GNG nonsense. EEng 00:13, 30 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I plan on appealing my topic ban and proposing a topic ban against you, Legacypac, and DerbyCountyInNZ. Tag-teaming like you're doing is unacceptable on Wikipedia. Nevertheless, if all else fails, I'll be getting in touch with the Wikimedia Foundation about the behavior you've shown. --Sailor Haumea (talk) 00:41, 30 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Please hurry, as it will speed the day you're indefinitely blocked along with your fellow longevity zealots, so the rest of us can go back to working in peace. Catch you on the rebound! EEng 01:19, 30 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Firstly, archives exist. Secondly, you'll be the one indefinitely blocked. Have a nice weekend...until the hammer comes down on you! Sailor Haumea (talk) 05:33, 30 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Whew! Because for a minute there I was really afraid that he/she/it/they might get me blocked. That was a close one! Charmed life, it seems. EEng 02:15, 1 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
You have always been one of my favorite stalkers. EEng 20:31, 7 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Tonight on "Things That Sound Really Strange When Taken Out Of Context"... Eman235/talk 00:59, 8 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
You may recall that Jeffrey Dahmer was killed during a fight in prison. So... What did Jeffrey Dahmer say just before the big fight in prison where he got killed?
Ready?
"Aah -- I used to eat guys like you for breakfast!"
Your recent editing history at Wikipedia:Sock puppetry shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the article's talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See BRD for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.
Being involved in an edit war can result in your being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you don't violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly. Bbb23 (talk) 12:51, 10 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Duh! Why not just get one of your sock puppets to do this for you? Martinevans123 (talk) 13:40, 10 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
[FBDB]Oh yeah? How 'bout if I have one of my sockpuppets give you a punch in the schnozzola? EEng 00:04, 11 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, look, another high-handed member of the "admin 3%" drops in to deliver an arrogant lecture on his backward understanding of how things are supposed to work, leavened by ominous threats. See [86]. EEng 14:37, 10 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Another admin drops in to lecture and threaten
Original section heading by OP: "Conduct Concerns"
Recently I've noticed that a number of your comments this month have not met the expectations outlined in our civility and no personal attacks policies. Examples include referring to a user as a "prick" and "completely tonedeaf"multiple times, using images and captions to insult other users (1, 2), making personal attacks towards others, and general incivility on a policy discussion page. (e.g. "The last time [you] had to deal with [me]"? Was there another time you gave a high-handed lecture showing you have a backwards understanding of how things are supposed to be done? You don't "have" to deal with me, and as NE Ent so effectively explains below, you're arguing in support of those who have kne-jerk reverted in violation of PGBOLD, so perhaps you should leave the refereeing of minor squabbles over nonsubstantive changes to those with a better understanding of guidelines, policy, and just-plain-how-things-are-done.") Such comments are not appropriate and don't contribute to a constructive editing environment. Please stop with this behavior or your account may be blocked. Best, Mike V • Talk 17:20, 27 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Just to be clear for bystanders, all those links relate to my criticism of the bullshit behavior of admin Bbb23, who (surprise!) canvassed you to come to his aid. [87] Thanks, but I don't need any lectures on appropriate behavior. Bbb23's kneejerk reversion (without substantive comment) of multiple other editors' contributions, and subsequent refusal to participate in discussion, doesn't contribute to a constructive editing environment either, and it's healthy for someone to point that out; if Bbb23 doesn't like it, he should cut out that kind of behavior. I'm sure he's an effective checkuser and vandal fighter, and in the capacity I'm sure he has your respect, but out in the wide world of real editing (where one deals with actual other editors, not SPAs and vandals needing mass reversion [88]) his knowledge and behavior leave much to be desired. When an admin behaves as he has—papering over his own bad behavior with even more bad behavior, including high-handed block threats—most editors just knuckle under, but someone needs to bell the cat. Quoting myself [89] :
And let me be clear: I have no problem with 97% of admins, who do noble work in return for (generally) either no recognition or shitloads of grief, only occasionally punctuated by thanks. But the other 3%—whoa, boy, watch out!
In summary, I stand by my comments. EEng 18:51, 27 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The comment you left above is a continuation of the behavior that I've asked you to stop. I have blocked your account for 3 days. Mike V • Talk 19:21, 27 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Wow -- just this morning I was groping for an example of unintentional self-parody, and here you've served one up on a silver platter. If you were shocked that I didn't bow and scrape in your presence, then you must have missed this userbox at the top of User:EEng:
Welcome to the 3%! Further to the quote I gave earlier (above), here's more [90]:
When users do something that administrators don't like, but when the users not only disagree but have the temerity to object to the sanctions levied against them by administrators, is this an unacceptable dissent against the powers-that-be that must, always, be quashed by any means necessary?
We say "The free encyclopedia that anyone can edit", not "The benevolent dictatorship encyclopedia that docile and compliant rule-followers can edit as long as they remember their place and are always properly respectful towards ADMINISTRATORS." So, please, if that's not the message you want to send, just let these userboxes go. And if you want to boot a user off the project for not being here to help build the encyclopedia, please do it for a more substantive reason than that the user refuses to say "Uncle" when confronted by admins. —Steve Summit (talk) 19:46, 6 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
You blocked for a personal attack or harassment. Where is the personal attack? Saying behavior is bad is not the same thing as saying someone is bad. You should unblock.Sir Joseph(talk) 19:43, 27 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Criticism and commentary is fine, however it must be undertaken in a constructive manner. Mischaracterizing my comments by changing the header title to "Another admin drops in to lecture and threaten", claiming Bbb23 was acting with a "bullshit behavior", improperly suggesting that Bbb23 was canvassing me to engage in the conversation despite not engaging in the conversation, and using uncivil language, such as "lectures on appropriate behavior", "Bbb23's kneejerk reversion", and "high-handed block threats—most editors just knuckle under, but someone needs to bell the cat" is poor conduct towards other editors and is not permitted. EEng was warned that this behavior was not appropriate, but still continued. I don't feel the block should be lifted. Mike V • Talk 20:03, 27 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Many of us here at Wikipedia have gotten used to EEng's rather acerbic and, shall we say, direct style, and like him for it, and while I'm kind of nodding my head here, I continue to think EEng is a valuable addition to the Wikipedia community, who may be in need of lessons in ettiquete?--Tomwsulcer (talk) 20:20, 27 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Holy Jesus. If "Bbb23's kneejerk reversion" is now part of a block rationale, block us all. What a shite block, a complete kneejerk reaction, utterly bogus, high-handed admin behaviour that needs to be called out, it's utter nonsense. And that, folks, is just the opening sentence of my memoirs of reading utter tripe on Wikipedia. Hardback due out just in time for Christmas. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:24, 27 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Unblocked
User:Mike V, after your warning ("conduct concerns") on this page, EEng posted this in response. He also made a few innocuous edits on Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Images, but I'm sure your block had nothing to do with those. You blocked for his response to your warning, and I don't think that was reasonable. The response wasn't very polite, indeed. It didn't defer to you as admin. The worst of it was that he changed your header, which is certainly inappropriate. But was it a disruptive edit, enough reason to block? No. Mainly it was an explanation of his criticisms of Bbb23. It didn't contain any personal attacks against Bbb23 or anybody else AFAICS. I've unblocked. Bishonen | talk 21:44, 27 May 2016 (UTC).[reply]
Well thanks, Bishonen -- not because I care a whit about an enforced break per se, or about my block log (I got over that long ago), but because it's nice to know that there are at least some admins who will stand up to the 3% who think that being an admin entitles one to imperiousy demand that the rest of us show deference to their superior status, and cower and beg for mercy at their whim, whether what they're saying conforms to policy and guidelines or not. EEng 01:09, 28 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Telegrams from near and far
Dammit, I was logged out during all the fun! I'd like to propose two actions. First, I think EEng should be blocked again because when I clicked that link he gave to Bbb23's user contributions, it made my Firefox hang up, and we certainly cannot have that. Secondly, I propose that we tattoo [FBDB] across any available portion of EEng's anatomy. In one fish's opinion, both Bbb23 and Mike V are, on the whole, excellent administrators and very helpful members of the community. What happened here, however, was what seems to happen all too frequently on Wikipedia: people getting pissed off over stuff that would seem unimportant after a good night's sleep. Ironically, Mike V's initial warning was good advice. Ironically too, EEng is cognitively incapable of following that kind of advice (something to do with brain damage at Harvard), and believe me, I've tried many times to no avail. Unfortunately, when Mike V observed EEng's response, he overreacted. Bish, as always, and I do mean always, got it right. EEng was disrespectful but not disruptive. Group hug. Now where is that tattoo needle? --Tryptofish (talk) 23:45, 27 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Well how about re-imposing a block for having a too long talk page? Is that a blockable offense? Surely there should be some fingerwagging!--Tomwsulcer (talk) 23:49, 27 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I agree entirely. That also does bad things to my browser performance. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:51, 27 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, tripping up Tryptofish's browser => BAD, EEng, bad bad bad, you should be tattooed bigtime for such horrors. (Me, too, for extending an already too-long talk page)--Tomwsulcer (talk) 00:00, 28 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
About an hour ago I figured that, while blocked, I might as well spend some time doing what some of you desire so much, which is to trim this page. Unfortunately, a few trims into the project I realized that silly ol' Bishonen had unblocked me, so if it's still too long complain to her. EEng 01:09, 28 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Or block this EEng joker for being more of a truth-to-power curmudgeon than me. Horning in on my territory? This will not do. — SMcCandlish ☺☏¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼ 03:39, 30 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
You know, this talk page reminds me of a long beard:
Well, what else is new. My two cents is that EEng is a valuable addition to Wikipedia, if a bit difficult at times, although I've sometimes considered that maybe he should be blocked for having a too long talk page. Just kidding. Just saying' hello, EEng, hope you'll be back soon.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 19:45, 27 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Many thanks for this -- it's perfect for an upcoming talk on Gage in pop culture. It's vaguely similar to a youtube video I grabbed about six years ago (now no longer posted, AFAICT) in which the US is metaphorically Gage (a stockbroker named "Phineas Geiger" in the vid, for some reason) and the WTC attack was the iron-bar-through-the-head turning America/Gage into an irritable, unpredictable, bullying, angry psychopath etc.
Interesting detail about the post you link: The discussants don't seem to think that anyone reading needs Phineas Gage linked or explained. I wonder if there'll be an uptake on the Sudden-(explained)-viewspike_detector. EEng 04:26, 2 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I have a feeling that Trump would actually like being compared to an iron rod. So is your viewspike detector a Geiger counter, or a Gage gauge? --Tryptofish (talk) 20:05, 2 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sure he would. He just said the US needs to be less predictable. EEng 14:24, 3 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
P.S. to David Eppstein: I did use it in my talk, to good effect, because it shows the extent that Gage can be invoked without introduction in at least some circles. (I also found some tweets in which people say things like, "I'm gonna go all Phineas Gage in a minute!") You may also have noticed I've used it at The Museums. EEng 08:12, 20 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Hey, that's no laughing matter -- it happened to me! I was on a long bike ride and there was this string of ducklings (or goslings? who cares, they're all the same) lined up on the bike trail. I shooed them away and all of a sudden Big Mama Duck/Goose/Thing comes swooping down and pecks at my helmet. Scared me a little but it wasn't fatal as far as I remember. Shock Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 02:22, 12 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Y92.482 Bicycle path as place of occurrence
V10.3 Person boarding or alighting a pedal cycle injured in collision with pedestrian or animal
No fowl, no harm. I suspect that bird just wanted some compensation, so you could have put it on her bill. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:35, 12 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Adding to the menagerie: Jonah was swallowed by a whale.[Cetacean needed] I stole this joke from Opabinia regalis, but that's OK – it's covered by the Sea-Sea-by-SA license. --Tryptofish (talk) 00:00, 13 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
For WP:BALANCE: The traditional account, that Jonah made his home in a fish's abdomen, has been publicly criticized by revisionist scholars.[1]— Preceding unsigned comment added by FourViolas (talk • contribs) 21:39, June 13, 2016
Hmm, sounds kinda fringey to me... burps suspiciously --Tryptofish (talk) 23:35, 13 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
You scintillate tonight. EEng 02:51, 13 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I have the weirdest, weirdest stalkers. It's you, the many stalkettes gathered here from all walks of life, each making his or her little dysfunction- or neurosis-revealing contribution, who make this talkpage what it is (whatever unspeakable thing that may be). EEng 00:21, 14 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
An piece of delicious trout for you, to calm your antagonism over how to present the story of sockpuppets [92]... Deryck C. 16:36, 13 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The love goes right back atcha, Deryck Chan. I like your close—"with a reminder that editors – admin or not – should refrain from causing unnecessary antagonism in discussions, and from placing disproportionate emphasis on following processes"—with the understanding that the antagonism (mine, at least) was a direct result of that disproportionate emphasis on process over substance. Not sure you realize it, but I got blocked by one of those high-handed process-fixated admins over this—see [93]. And proud I am of it, too. EEng 17:46, 13 June 2016 (UTC) P.S. have you visited The Museums lately?[reply]
No, I wasn't aware of your very short recent block until reading your reply above. It simply adds to the farce of the whole fiasco... Deryck C. 21:12, 13 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Typo
Hi, EEng. I believe you have a typo here. Take care. Ping me back. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 21:49, 15 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Checkingfax: There's no typo. If you click on the link (red though it may be) and then look at F.I.M.'s comment just above my post, you'll see what I was getting at. EEng 22:29, 15 June 2016 (UTC) Side ping to Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi.
[reply]
Ha! REEL clever! ;) And it took agrees before I clocked it. Cheers! MuffledPocketed 08:39, 16 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, EEng. You got me twice because I did not know who F.I.M. was. I make that kind of typo now and then. Brain says one thing; fingers another. OK, now can you advise me of any other point? BTW, I found NOTNOT to be interesting too. Ping me back. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 23:51, 15 June 2016 (UTC)
[reply]
What's NOTNOT? EEng 01:42, 16 June 2016 (UTC)
[reply]
We're all assuming that's a rhetorical question. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:20, 20 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
It's the bar through the brain [94]. Anyway, you were warned it was tasteless. The great thing about Harvard topics is there are always people wandering about saying droll things:
None of you write back for the next four days, please -- I have to get this talk ready. EEng 14:34, 20 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Is not - Is too
Hello,
I apologize for reverting your edit over at "What Wikipedia is not" (diff [95]). I am an experienced editor, but forays into policy and guideline pages are new to me - so I admit I was being rigid. Having looked over your user page and talk page I see that you are a very experienced editor and that you know what you are doing. So, in the future I think I will do the same for any editor who edits guideline and policy pages - before I revert with an intention to save the Universe and Wikipedia.
I also noticed that you are immersed in humor; so I hope you like the title of this section. As an aside, perhaps editors should ask why is there no guideline page that describes "What Wikipedia is too!" (as an argument that counters "is not"). OK. I know that sounds a little nonsensical. Regards ---Steve Quinn (talk) 03:51, 2 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
You have nothing to apologize for at all. I don't always know what I'm doing, and your edit, following my edit, stimulated me to think things through afresh and make an even better edit. That's the way it's supposed to work, and Wikipedia at its best. Keep up the good work.
Didn't I unfriend you for missing my talk? EEng 04:52, 2 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Hey, so how did the talk go? --Tryptofish (talk) 19:48, 2 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I was a little apprehensive because of the amount of new material I'd developed, but I think it went well, other than the fact that my laptop crashed 2/3 of the way through so that I had to ad lib while it rebooted. The evening as a whole (i.e. including the other speakers) was certainly wonderful from my perspective. We ran maybe 75 minutes over and almost everyone stayed to the end, if that means anything.
The big announcement of the evening, and the unstated (until that night) reason for the whole thing, was that the very nice couple who had the daguerreotype all those years (without realizing it) have donated it to Harvard, so that it's now part of the Warren Museum collection along with the skull, tamping iron, life mask, etc. It's an amazing story -- what's the probability of that thing not only surviving all these years, but being identified? The mind boggles. EEng 21:38, 2 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Good! (So your laptop crashed – was that because it tried to load your user talk page?) --Tryptofish (talk) 21:48, 2 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
No, it's a WW2 army-surplus laptop which overheats every now and then. That problem seemed to have gone away after I upgraded to Windows 10 but -- just my luck -- it chose that moment to reassert itself. In a way it may have made for a better session, since we had Q&A during the reboot, and a lot of good questions were asked. EEng 22:54, 2 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
You got me! For a moment, I was actually wondering to myself how there could have been laptops during WW2. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:50, 2 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
EEng, your comments are requested on...Talk:Serial killer. You do, however, have the right to remain silent. Eman235/talk 05:33, 4 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
You may have noticed that accounts that bother me here often fall mysteriously silent soon afterward. Ever think about that? EEng 02:47, 5 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Are you available for hire? I have a long list of accounts that I could submit. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:35, 5 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
At least it's not another "Barnstar of Good Humor"...
The Yuge Barnstar
That's one hell of a user page you've got there. I tried to print a copy out (in case my internet goes down), but I don't have the required 63 pages to get the whole thing. I'm off to the store in the morning to buy paper. Anyhow, here's a Trump-sized reward for having a liberal sense of humor. Colonel Wilhelm Klink (Complaints|Mistakes) 23:02, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
It's even the same size as Trump's hands! --Tryptofish (talk) 23:59, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
If you're talking about User:EEng, don't you mean "Trump's ego"? If you mean the little star at the left of the box there, don't you mean "Trump's genitals"? EEng 00:28, 13 August 2016 (UTC) Colonel Wilhelm Klink, I stole some of your images,[reply]
You know, I was about to say "the same size as his hands", but then I thought "his" might be mistaken for you. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:25, 13 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I am the only one here to receive an email (via "Email this user") from Hillbillyholiday reading something like --
Dear Mr Eeng,
Just came across our "eeng" article what was recently updated by User:Colonel Wilhelm Klink. Not sure if it's owt to do with you but sounds a bit like a HOECS to me! Don't forget, online pedophiles can actually make your keyboard release toxic vapors that make you suggestible ... [youtube link redacted]
This email was sent by user "Hillbillyholiday" on the English Wikipedia to user "EEng". It has been automatically delivered and the Wikimedia Foundation cannot be held responsible for its contents.
Oh, Lord, I walked right into that one. But please, no more such emails. I almost reported you at ANI as a compromised account. EEng 05:14, 13 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Apparently, I am humor-impaired (hangs head in shame). I had to google it. Yuck. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:25, 13 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
"Toxic vapors? You smell like hammers? Fuck this, I'm going to bed."
I'll respond to this now; I saw it here yesterday, and I still don't understand it. I get the whole "Klink is a stalker" thing, but the rest is just a bit too far out there for me, and, given the nature of this conversation ("online pedophiles", "compromised account", "yuck"), it can't be pleasant. Ignorance is bliss, right? Colonel Wilhelm Klink (Complaints|Mistakes) 15:02, 14 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I still don't know what all this is. I think you got dragged into it only because you happened to be near the top of the page's edit history. I hope this won't cause you to drop your membership in my glittering salon of talk page stalkers. EEng 16:38, 14 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't think any of it had anything to do with the good Colonel. And when the proprietor said "Oh, Lord, I walked right into that one", I took it to mean that it was a joke that EEng understood and I didn't. So I did some searching online, and the sentences in question come from an episode of some British comedy TV show. (I have no idea why any of it is considered funny. I suppose that it just means that the sun has set on the British Empire. At least it made me feel slightly better about TV in the US.) The episode was very controversial, because it centered on jokes about pedophilia. And that is why I said "yuck". (At least I am happy to see from the image here that a certain political candidate is reading about it.) --Tryptofish (talk) 22:21, 14 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I only understood in the sense that by that point I'd realized ME123 was involved, which explains anything. EEng 01:18, 15 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Aha! Then you are so much more perceptive than is WMF's software for identifying IP addresses. Good for you! OK, so here is what is going on. The entire population of Wales (the nation of Welchers, not the co-founder of that website) has been viewing your talk page, and thus, the large spike in viewings. These people have four national characteristics: a tendency to cough up hairballs when they speak, hillbilly-like tendencies, inexplicable sense of humor (and it's not worth bothering to try), and warm feet. That explains everything (although I admit that my explanation requires explanation). In any case, the good Colonel has nothing to be worried about. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:17, 15 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
In his edit summary, our hillbilly friend calls me a "butty boy". So, after posting about pedophilia, he calls me a "boy" and refers to my posterior. Wow! Don't they have farm animals in Wales? --Tryptofish (talk) 21:47, 15 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
That's unusual... I had always considered Wales to be one of the more grounded countries. Perhaps being so close to England is finally taking its toll. And, oddly enough, I received a pamphlet in the mail today urging me to -- get this -- "save the whales." (!) Have I done anything to piss off British conservationists? Colonel Wilhelm Klink (Complaints|Mistakes) 21:29, 15 August 2016 (UTC) That was never here. Please excuse my ignorance. Colonel Wilhelm Klink (Complaints|Mistakes) 22:02, 15 August 2016 (UTC) [reply]
EEng to the rescue! I saw what you just did, and I thank you for your support. I have been very remiss in not communicating with you, and hope to remedy that very soon. Hertz1888 (talk) 23:11, 12 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
A kitten for you!
For your assistance with the recent research mess that I bought to ANI.
Please don't commit wholesale reversions of technical edits done by others. Your claim of "wasting time" is specious, when it wasn't your time to begin with. — Quicksilver (Hydrargyrum)T@ 23:35, 18 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
It's not a technical edit -- it's just a gnome swooping in to "improve" an article by doing something which has no effect on what the reader sees, merely changing one form of valid markup to another form which the gnome prefers, or which he/she mistakenly thinks is the "right" form because that's what he/she happens to be more familiar with. See WP:MOS: "Style and formatting should be consistent within an article, though not necessarily throughout Wikipedia. Where more than one style is acceptable under the Manual of Style, editors should not change an article from one of those styles to another without a good reason." The watchlists of those who maintain a given article are gummed up by, and their time is wasted in reviewing, such worthless busywork. EEng 23:41, 18 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Boilerplate notice
This message contains important information about an administrative situation on Wikipedia. It does not imply any misconduct regarding your own contributions to date.
Discretionary sanctions is a system of conduct regulation designed to minimize disruption to controversial topics. This means uninvolved administrators can impose sanctions for edits relating to the topic that do not adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, our standards of behavior, or relevant policies. Administrators may impose sanctions such as editing restrictions, bans, or blocks. This message is to notify you sanctions are authorised for the topic you are editing. Before continuing to edit this topic, please familiarise yourself with the discretionary sanctions system. Don't hesitate to contact me or another editor if you have any questions.
[Leaving this because of what looks like mass WP:ASPERSION-casting and mischaracterization of the views of everyone on the other side of style dispute, made by you in a extraneous WP:POINTy image sidebar at WT:MOS earlier today, and which you defended as appropriate at my talk page after why it is not appropriate was explained. You last received a WP:ARBATC DS notice in 2014, and were not engaging in things like this in the year after that notice, so maybe this will have the desired effect. — SMcCandlish ☺☏¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼ 23:17, 1 September 2016 (UTC)][reply]
What some people think reading an article should feel like to the reader
Sandy's mad that I added the image seen at right to a discussion at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style -- says it was a "smear". EEng 23:56, 1 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Our words should be as dry as dead bones in the desert? Where's the personal attack in that? —David Eppstein (talk) 03:45, 2 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
To be fair, what I was saying was that some people seem to think that articles should be dry as bones in the desert [97], which he says is a personal attack. Then this morning I got pinged into this maelstrom [98]. EEng 04:02, 2 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't say it was a personal attack, its a straw man psychological projection and mischaracterization of everyone who disagrees with you about decorative quotation boxes, to character-assassinate them has holding a stupid/crazy position that they do not in fact hold, and thus a civility problem and, as a big extraneous sidebox jammed into an RfC discussion it probably qualifies as WP:POINT disruption. You should have had the grace to remove it when it was objected to. — SMcCandlish ☺☏¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼ 07:14, 2 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
It's not character assassination (!) to say that some (not "all") editors think that articles are supposed to be dry as dust. Lots of editors express such a view, asserting that dry, flat, cold = something they call "professional". Please now have the last word in this completely insane discussion on this trivial matter. EEng 13:54, 2 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
COI
Thanks for pointing that out. I was remembering from my days on OTRS, fielding demands from academics to cite their own work. It's pretty clear that self-citation is a bad idea, and wide-scale self-citation doubly so. Guy (Help!) 14:04, 2 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I can't agree it's always a bad idea. I've done it myself. EEng 15:38, 2 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
September 2016
Hello, I'm RexxS. I noticed that you made a comment on the page Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style that didn't seem very civil, so it has been removed. Wikipedia is built on collaboration, so it's one of our core principles to interact with one another in a polite and respectful manner. If you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page.
If you're not interested in discussion, then please keep your ad homiems to yourselfRexxS (talk) 20:45, 4 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Saying "RexxS is simply behind the times -- see note at..." and linking to a recent (July 2016) guideline change which you apparently missed [99] isn't a personal attack. You're being ridiculous. (And we'll leave it to others here to judge whether, in this context, saying "You're being ridiculous" is a personal attack.) EEng 21:16, 4 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Life's too short. EEng 06:50, 5 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
But your talk page isn't. Now, I can't get this image out of my head: tiny Australian people herding tiny sheep. --Tryptofish (talk) 14:26, 5 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Please source your edits at Harvard University, so the information you're adding may be verified. Thanks. X4n6 (talk) 08:23, 9 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Edits don't need sources; information one adds needs sources. I didn't add the information, just copyedited the text to say the same thing a different way. EEng 08:27, 9 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
As I said, "the information you're adding" needs to be verified, per WP:BURDEN. Otherwise, it will likely be challenged and/or removed. If you've just moved info already sourced, please copy the source(s) to that section as well, to avoid confusion. X4n6 (talk) 08:38, 9 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't add anything. If you think I did, show me the diff. EEng 08:43, 9 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
If the source(s) for this information is/are listed elsewhere in the article, please also attach them here, or the edit risks being removed. X4n6 (talk) 09:06, 9 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I take it, by your failure to respond to my question, that you've realized that I added no new information. Since I didn't add it, I have no idea where it might be sourced. Why are you still wasting our time on this? Before you get any bright ideas, BTW, I remind you that BURDEN sets the standard for removal of unsourced material (outside BLPs) as being that you genuinely believe no source exists -- not just because you can challenge it. So please don't get any WP:POINTY ideas. EEng 09:16, 9 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
What you should have gleaned from my response, is that I had no interest in playing games. As you're clearly not interested in claiming ownership of this unsourced material - and since you appear equally disinterested in providing appropriate sources for it, I've removed it per WP:VERIFY. X4n6 (talk) 09:38, 9 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
And I've restored it. There's no reason for me to "take ownership" of this information since, as now both I and another editor have told you, I didn't add it. And VERIFY doesn't require, in order that material remain in an article, that it be verified, merely that it be verifiable. Did you make even the most basic attempt to find a source before engaging me in this nonsense waste of time? The fact that you can remove something unsourced doesn't mean you should, especially material this new and duly tagged [citation needed]. EEng 10:01, 9 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Your recent editing history shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the article's talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See BRD for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.
Being involved in an edit war can result in your being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you don't violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly.X4n6 (talk) 10:14, 9 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@X4n6: Why are you quibbling over this nonsense? What’s the point of adding the [citation needed] tag if you are hell bent to edit war and remove it altogether? Take heed of EEng's advice or find something better to do. - NQ(talk) 10:30, 9 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I just looked at your page for the first time. The Trump stuff. Hilarious? Not really. It's childish and irresponsible. This is not the place to do this. Try to imagine doing the same thing, but with Hillary Clinton on your page. Doctalk 09:37, 10 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Doc9871, I'm fairly certain that there quite a few in there disparaging Clinton (and Obama) as well. Just not nearly as many as there are for Trump. Mr rnddude (talk) 09:50, 10 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
There's a limit, in size and scope, when it comes to user pages. It's a little out of hand. I'm not running to report it, just noting it. Doctalk 10:00, 10 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Everything on my user page is there either to increase other editors' pleasure in contributing (by providing modest amusement they can enjoy during breaks from editing) or to assist them in becoming more effective editors (by illustrating various aspects of Wikipedia as a social environment e.g. [100]). Democratic figures are featured as well as Republican (e.g. [101]) though unfortunately those opportunities don't arise very often, because e.g. Clinton and Obama just aren't as amusing. EEng 10:29, 10 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
That's cute! There's no question that you have a good sense of humor. For me, the thing is really this: why put your politics on display here? What purpose does it actually serve? Who really gives a crap if you're a liberal or a conservative? It's an allegedly unbiased encyclopedia. We should try to strive for neutrality. You're just showing your hand. I would take any edit you make in the political realm with a grain of salt as biased, based on your user page. Jus' sayin'. Doctalk 10:36, 10 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Granting for a moment, for the sake of argument, that I am indeed "showing my hand" via my user page, then I guess that would act as a sort of COI disclosure should I edit any political articles (which I don't). Editors aren't personally required to have a neutral point of view—only articles are. EEng 10:45, 10 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm. What I'm really getting at, in a roundabout way, is that you can't use your user page to store a ton of... "funny stuff" that is really not related to Wikipedia. That's what private webpages are for. MySpace, etc. The servers are not here to host comedy pages. Doctalk 10:50, 10 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Again, as seen numerous places on my talk page (e.g. here), many editors find my userpage a refreshing place to take a break from editing or (e.g. here) to find "medicine against chronic wikidespair". Certainly that's good for the project. Thank you for the complement on my sense of humor, though not everyone agrees with you on that (image at right). EEng 11:05, 10 September 2016 (UTC) I'm afraid I have to go back to bed now -- midnight snack -- but please visit The Museums frequently.[reply]
This is not a host for you to defame BLP subjects.[102] Don't restore that material. Doctalk 11:13, 10 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Doc, you're out of line. While I'm not necessarily a fan of the user's talk page, you've gone too far. First, you're being contradictory when you say you're not running to report the user's page - then you unilaterally choose to censor it? Second, you're also being hypocritical, as one of your own userboxes identifies you as a Republican. Why is it fine for you to "show your hand" but not this user? As for your claims of "defamation?" No wikilawyering please. Parody is protected speech. Per CENSOR, even on this project. So if there is a COI here, it's in your removal of content on another user's page. You know better. You need to self-revert - and if you don't, the user would be justified in reporting you. As the line goes, if it offends you - don't look. X4n6 (talk) 11:49, 10 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Absolutely not. Images for Trump's family are listed on the pages they are used on Wikipedia. We don't use those images on a user's page under "Gallery of Creepy, Fawning Enablers". It's completely against BLP. Doctalk 11:58, 10 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
First, personal pages are not BLPs. So I'm not seeing any validity to that argument. Second, again, parody is protected speech. Third, you're editing another user's page. Since you can spout policy vios, you're well aware of the many that violates, so don't make me list them. Fourth, you have a COI, so you're really not in the best position to complain. You just look like a pov pusher yourself. But again, if you are offended - or just humor challenged - I'd suggest you just not engage further with this user or his page. But if you are too vexed, vigilantism is still not the answer. It all too often boomerangs. Take it to the proper forum. Where - as you probably already now - you'll likely get told exactly what I've already said. And risk possible sanctions yourself for vandalizing a user's personal page. But the choice is yours. X4n6 (talk) 12:21, 10 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
OK, you two, thank you for your comments. In the morning I'll adjust the content to address Doc's concerns. After all, the kids (though they've chosen to put themselves into the spotlight) can't help who their father is, and the wife probably didn't know what she was getting herself into. Now, may I get back to sleep, please? EEng 12:06, 10 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Meh. Ya know, if you put a little effort into it instead of just straight-up deriding, it could actually be amusingly clever and inoffensive. Think SNL humor. "Gallery of Creepy, Fawning Enablers" is desperate. Work on the material and get back to me. Doctalk 12:19, 10 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
And to all a goodnight! X4n6 (talk) 12:27, 10 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
POLEMIC? I didn't know one could use polecats? Hmm, "childish and irresponsible"... which politician immediately springs to mind there? Martinevans123 (talk) 19:47, 10 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Seems to me that if we start prohibiting editors from expressing their political opinions on their user pages, there are an awful lot of user boxes that will have to be removed. And as for the dividing line between acceptable commentary, and commentary that "goes too far", there is no practical way to establish a consensus as to where that line would be. A user page is not an article for our readers. If one does not like a particular user page, then don't look at it. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:08, 10 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I don't understand - what's all the fuss about Pole Mics? They are very useful for recording the sounds of silly hats, silly skirts, and scottish monster shepherds, and all from a safe distance.
This one's even got a nice, furry spoffle (the microphone, not the shepherd). Robevans123 (talk) 22:22, 10 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
This thread (or maybe this liquor) has gotten me thinking: what's going to happen to the content of EEng's userpage on November 9, the day after election day? If Trump loses, it will be irrelevant; if Trump wins, we'll have bigger things to worry about. Colonel Wilhelm Klink (Complaints|Mistakes) 23:25, 10 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
And when I hear people say "If Trump wins", I laugh. There's a fine line between comedy and tragedy, isn't there? Colonel Wilhelm Klink (Complaints|Mistakes) 23:58, 10 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Absolute stupidity to equate Trump with Nazism. The Nazis actually murdered millions of people!!! Alarmist types that equate a potential Trump presidency to Nazism?! Sheer lunacy. Doctalk 08:14, 11 September 2016 (UTC)
[reply]
Nonetheless, if you read a good history covering the rise of Hitler during the period 1930-1933 (e.g., Ian Kershaw's two-volume bio) there are some very interesting parallels. I don't think Trump is plotting mass extermination. But the electoral tactics and the appeal of authoritarianism to disaffected segments of the populace, "restore our former glory" type rhetoric, laying the blame for national decline on certain ethnicgroups and the like are strikingly similar. Shock Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 15:43, 17 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Well, to be fair to Hitler I don't recall that he was plotting mass extermination when he first came to power either. In the present case, time will tell. EEng 16:44, 17 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Absolute fucking nonsense. Talk about "fear-mongering"?! Just pathetic. Doctalk 15:51, 17 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Here's a well-reasoned reply: Godwin's Law. Read the last sentence in the paragraph. Doctalk 16:09, 17 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Unfortunately you don't seem to have read Godwin's recent article [103] cited by the very sentence you link, nor the Peter Bergen piece (cited with approval, in turn, by Godwin in that same article) which concludes that Trump is indeed a fascist, with only the exception that he's not (yet) openly calling for violence. Godwin's Law warns against glib comparisons to fascism, not all such comparisons.
That otherwise seemingly intelligent persons continue to deny what is so obviously going on here is the reason I opened my very first post on Trump with Huxley: "That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons that history has to teach."
Now, if I may, I would like to exercise the Museum Curator's privilege by asking that this debate be halted. It's not in keeping with the spirit of fun I like to promote here. EEng 16:44, 17 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Also, Trump's campaign has made explicit (but dog-whistle, so plausibly deniable) call-outs to actual neo-nazis. Or did you miss the significance of the 88 in his "88 generals" endorsement? —David Eppstein (talk) 17:41, 17 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
And with that, EEng gets the trains running on time again. Now if he could only archive his fucking talk page.... --Tryptofish (talk) 18:57, 17 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
At 0028 hours local time, I mentioned [104] that "My user page is meant to be a source of amusement for editors taking a break from the humdrum workaday cares of editing. But I don't want debate on non-Wiki partisan matters breaking out, because that too often leaves editors with high blood pressure instead of a feeling of relaxation and refreshment." Within hours...
...the following post was transferred here from another page...
I really didn’t see your "final answer"[105] until today. I was amused, but not in a good way. You’ve been here since 2006, and yet you claim to know more than me about several things. Here’s a few where you’re totally dead wrong:
WP:BLP, very first sentence: "Editors must take particular care when adding information about living persons to any Wikipedia page.” Any page actually applies to what you deem to be “personal pages”.
Parody is protected speech… by whom? Wikipedia? This is a private website, not a government. BLP policy is normally strictly enforced here over "parody".
Editing another user’s page does not violate "many" policies. I don’t even know what that means. What policies? Meh...
You have zero evidence of me having a COI on anything. On what are you basing that accusation? It’s one of several personal attacks you used to dismiss legitimate concerns. I'm also a “POV pusher”, “vigilante”, and a “vandal”. The vandalism charge is just truly ignorant of policy. Very sad for an editor of your tenure. Why did EEng not consider it vandalism? Because... it wasn't! Amazing...
So, this is really not an insult; please don’t take it as one. In the future: know what the hell you’re talking about before you chastise an editor who’s been around as long as me. I predict that you'll just erase this thread with a nasty edit summary and not even take any consideration to what I wrote. Doctalk 06:50, 20 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
...and the fireworks began...
As you can see, Doc, I've moved your post above from my talk page, where you saw fit to leave it - a full ten days after this was discussed - to where it belongs. Here. If anywhere.
Beyond that, my own responses will be of appropriate length, even though, so many days later, I truly care less than a tinker's damn. But first, an admonition: kindly stay the hell off my talk page with this kind of crap. Any need you had for a 10 day old rebuttal belonged here. Or just screamed at the top of your lungs inside your bathroom. As someone who has "been around as long as me" - you really should know that. However, it must also be noted that, the only likely reason you posted on my talk, was so other editors, like Patient Zero, who reverted you; or Tryptofish, whose advice, similar to mine, you also ignored; or Martinevans123 and Robevans123, who were amused by your woeful misuse of polemic; or Colonel Wilhelm Klink, Shock Brigade Harvester Boris and David Eppstein, who challenged your pov, as well as your grasp of logic. But so much for all that now. Oops. Still, since frankly, I can't resist a point-by-point refutation of yourpolemic:
1) This project grants "considerable leeway" on userpages, per WP:USERPAGE. Also, your cherry-picked, yet painful misinterpretation of WP:BLP is pretty transparently wrong - as the very next sentence following your quote is: "We must get the article right. You've "been around" long enough to know that userpages are not articles.
""At the heart of the First Amendment is the recognition of the fundamental importance of the free flow of ideas and opinions on matters of public interest and concern. The freedom to speak one's mind is not only an aspect of individual liberty – and thus a good unto itself – but also is essential to the common quest for truth and the vitality of society as a whole. We have therefore been particularly vigilant to ensure that individual expressions of ideas remain free from governmentally imposed sanctions.
...Here it is clear that respondent Falwell is a "public figure" for purposes of First Amendment law. The jury found against respondent on his libel claim when it decided that the Hustler ad parody could not "reasonably be understood as describing actual facts about [respondent] or actual events in which [he] participated." App. to Pet. for Cert. C1. The Court of Appeals interpreted the jury's finding to be that the ad parody "was not reasonably believable," 797 F.2d, at 1278, and in accordance with our custom we accept this finding. Respondent is thus relegated to his claim for damages awarded by the jury for the intentional infliction of emotional distress by "outrageous" conduct. But for reasons heretofore stated this claim cannot, consistently with the First Amendment, form a basis for the award of damages when the conduct in question is the publication of a caricature such as the ad parody involved here."[106]
So, put both politely and succinctly: your claims of injury, defamation, or any other potential liability to this project, from the clearly intended parody posted on a userpage - are all crap. With that, I'll also advise you - perhaps preemptively - that the Wikimedia Foundation is an American non-profit organization; and as such, is subject to all the applicable laws of the United States.
4) "You have zero evidence of me having a COI on anything." Really? Besides your strident responses here, here, here, here and even when politely asked to stop, your response here, before finally relenting here. But no... this edit, was a purely non-partisan edit and in now way a COI, coming from a totally non-pov pushing user whose own political biases are impossible to read - except for the years that you've felt the need to self identify as a Republican on your userpage. Or the comments you've made here. So tell me again the one about the "zero evidence" I have.
a) Stay the hell off my talk page with this waste of my time. Especially when I was right;
b) In the future, know what the hell you're talking about;
c) Stop pov pushing anywhere on this project; and
d) Before you try to throw weight around that you don't have - you should know that someone who really had "been around", would have been smart enough to check the Users list first - to know with whom they were talking. So you've been "around" over "eight years?" Want a cookie? I've been around over ten.
One more thing: I responded. So much for that last prediction: "I predict that you'll just erase this thread with a nasty edit summary and not even take any consideration to what I wrote." Seems your predictions are as empty as your other claims. But careful what you ask for, huh? But hey, feel free to come up with whatever tortured little allegedly clever defense/harangue/riposte/screed you'd like, okay? Yawn. While I, out of respect for both EEng's talk page; as well as my own natural inclination in this case, will blissfully return to caring less than a fraction of a damn. X4n6 (talk) 12:26, 23 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Your WP:LASTWORD smarm can go suck an egg. The disussion was already way over! I wrote that on your page... 3 days ago. We've moved on. You're certainly not convincing me, or anyone else, of anything with your addition. Piss. Off. Doctalk 12:46, 23 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Wow. Is it OK come to somone else's Talk Page, to edit war and tell a third party to piss off? Or does the careful use of that piss period mean it's not a real insult? I guess it's pretty much up to EEng what he wants on his Talk Page. Much like his User Page, really. By the way, I was fully convinced. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:50, 23 September 2016 (UTC) p.s. sorry if I've "trumped" your WP:LASTWORD last word.[reply]
My word, that was brave. But his article gives no indication that he ever travelled further north than London?? If the Humphry Davy vs George Stephensonsafety-lamps-at-dawn is any guide, it must have been some canny Geordie, not some posh softie Cornwallite, who was the true inventor? But I'm happy to leave as is, pending more research! Martinevans123 (talk) 20:09, 16 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
If you'll scare up some good sources on the rocket thing, we could put together a new article with a catchy DYK:
...that a 19th-century shipwreck victim might find a rocket coming toward him?
Something like that. EEng 20:49, 16 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Please be aware that this process can take up to ten years and you should avoid making any changes to the page during this period. The serf is currently preparing the vellum (he's chasing a calf, but that's a typical Saturday night on the Levels), while the chief scribe is preparing his quills, the milliner-in-chief is measuring everyone's head, and the proof-reader in waiting is searching for his rubbers erasers. Everyone is keeping a safe distance from the tanner-in-residence.
The enshrined page will include an illustration of HRH EEng, wearing a silly hat, pleasantly plucking away while Rome burns, with the fool worrying about the next BLP violation. Robevans123 (talk) 20:25, 17 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks to everyone who participated. I am unworthy. EEng 20:57, 17 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Notice of shrines for unenshrinement
Your enshrinement page has been nominated for unenshrinement. The reason given is: what the fuck? You may share your opinion at the shrines for unenshrinement page, but nobody will listen. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:00, 17 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Great. Now I'm in the middle of an enshrinement war. Anyway, I think the word is unshrinement. EEng 21:33, 17 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
If you breach WP:TALK again and I am notified, I will take administrative action. -- PBS (talk) 19:30, 21 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
If you breach basic grammar and punctuation rules, I will take adverse action. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:33, 21 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Just to be clear, The Rambling Man, you're talking not to me but to PBS, right? EEng 21:43, 21 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Seriously. The guy can't even get the grammar right when giving you a warning about MOS sanctions. It's either irony or a paradox or something that I haven't thought of yet. In any case, I've unsuitably indented my reply a la EEng, just to ensure you know I'm replying at you innit an' not dat uvver fella. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:46, 21 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I suspect that should be à l'EEng, but of course I would not wish to quibble... --Mirokado (talk) 22:07, 21 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
PBS, you have no idea what you're talking about, and I've responded in detail on your talk page [107]. (Connoisseurs of forum-shopping Wikilawyers taking advantage of the credulity of random admins may want to follow that link.)EEng 21:43, 21 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Recently, you have more than once altered text on a talk page posted by another editor against their objections. You justify that by stating "Unfortunately there was no way for me to restore the edits by other editors that J-G removed without also removing his comments;" removing others comments against the objections of others is a breach of WP:TALK. After their comments were restored, if you though that such a restoration was unjustified, you should have asked an uninvolved administrator (either directly or indirectly via WP:ANI) to intervene. Edit warring over the content of article pages is disruptive, edit warring over the content of talk pages is unnecessary and disruptive (hence the rules over not altering other people's comments). Alter another person's comments on a talk page (other than those small changes sanctioned by WP:TALK talk) and I will take administrative actions. Is that clear? -- PBS (talk) 06:12, 22 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Wow, looks like we've got another live one with a bad case of WP:IDHT on top. What has happened to Wikipedia to make such people the ones we give the mop to? And since when has admin privilege been required to take obvious corrective actions that aren't actually uses of that privilege? —David Eppstein (talk) 06:32, 22 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
For the avoidance of doubt, PBS (since you have trouble following talk page discussions) D.E. is talking about you. Is that clear? EEng 06:47, 22 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
PBS, your failure to even acknowledge the unusually strong condemnation by one of your fellow admins, above, of your behavior in this matter adds to the accumulating evidence calling into question your fitness as an administrator. EEng 03:22, 24 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
No response from the drive-by admin. Surprise!EEng 07:27, 28 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
From my talk page:
I reverted your [(user:Jayaguru-Shishya)] comments because, in the same edit in which you made them, you deleted and refactored others' comments. One notices PBS has stopped defending you. Get a clue. EEng 15:31, 3 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I never "defened" user:Jayaguru-Shishya. So stating that I have "stopped defending [user:Jayaguru-Shishya[" not accurate. I reminded you of my previous warning of MOS descretionary sanctions (User talk:EEng/Archive_2#Notification of Arbcom MOS discretionary sanctions) and under those sanctions I placed a specific restriction on you not to delete other editors tal page comments. I did this because you seem unable to understand that deleteing other's comments against another editors objections is a direct breach of WP:TALK. I have responded now because you seem to be self justifying you breach of WP:TALK.
Despite you suggestions that an involved administrator ought to be an arbitrator in this issue, it is univolved admins, or as you put it "Drive-by admin[s]", that are preferred for such interventions (see WP:UNINVOLVED).
If it makes you happy to get the last word in then you most likely will, but unless you behave in such a way as to warrent my intervention under the MOS discressionary sanction, I so not intend to engage in further correspondence over this issue. -- PBS (talk) 06:32, 4 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, look, the drive-by admin pops up to threaten and lecture again!
It's somehow not surprising that you and your little pal J-G are still whining about this two weeks later, because you're both clueless.
Uninvolved is fine; drive-by, which is what you are, is someone who doesn't bother to understand (or, as is increasingly obvious in your case, is incapable of understanding) what's really going on before issuing pompous lectures and threats. For the nth time, it was J-G who removed and refactored others' comments, not me; I undid his removal and refactoring of others' comments, and for that you're giving me grief, because you're clueless.
I repeat what your fellow admin, David Eppstein, said about your actions in this matter: "What has happened to Wikipedia to make such people the ones we give the mop to?" i.e. you're unfit to be an admin, because you're clueless. I notice you became an admin in the old days when that status was essentially anyone's for the asking. It's unfortunate that the voices in the wilderness pointing to your "consistently poor judgement" and predicting that you would "certainty abuse adminship" weren't heeded.
When you're excited either your spelling or your typing deteriorate; slowing down might lead to improvement in those areas, and possibly in your thinking processes (though I can't be sure of that). I'm glad to hear that you plan to stop embarrassing yourself by posting further here, and will (I guess) just go do whatever it is you do when you're not encouraging Wikilawyers and wasting the time of editors who know what they're doing. EEng 07:38, 4 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Favor
Hey @EEng: this may seem like a lot to ask, with us not being acquainted and all, but because you've been active at DYK, and have a reputation as a good copy editor, I thought what's the harm in asking?
I recently made a DYK nomination for an article I made, Timber Sycamore. I'm pretty excited about the article because I was surprised, when I began reading about the program, that I'd never heard of it before.
Do you think I could prevail upon you to perhaps review my article, and the nomination?
Just as a quick FYI, every statement **should** be attributed either to the next citation that follows, or occasionally, to the one preceding. Let me know what you think! -Darouet (talk) 14:18, 22 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The Great and Powerful Oz has decided to grant your puny request! However, DYK rules forbid the same person from both copyediting (or doing any significant editing) and also acting as reviewer. So which do you want? Personally I'd rather copyedit, as I haven't done much reviewing for a while and I'm rusty at it. EEng 14:29, 22 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I'm trying to amend and copy edit things now, in advance of any review, but if you'd prefer copyediting, I'd appreciate your eyes, oh great one ;) -Darouet (talk) 14:35, 22 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
[FBDB]Use title case when referencing The Wizard, insect! And it's 'O' not 'Oh' i.e. "O Great One". You are obviously in desperate need of a good copyeditor! The Great and Powerful Oz will attend to the task before the end of one of your puny Earth days! EEng 14:44, 22 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Haha, please do not end my days O Great One: they are so puny! Why trouble Yourself to even consider them? My days are as grass, they pass like the wind; the storms hurl me from my place, and the tempests steal me away in the night!
Seriously though I have no idea how you copyeditors do it. -Darouet (talk) 15:00, 22 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I really don't want my talk page to become a debate venue, but I can hardly imagine what we're supposed to conclude from the fact that you've referred us to a New York Post piece by John Podhoretz for what you apparently think is a serious purpose. EEng 07:15, 23 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
You're using your user page as a venue. What's wrong with discussing things here? Are you saying I can't post here? Doctalk 07:17, 23 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
My user page is meant to be a source of amusement for editors taking a break from the humdrum workaday cares of editing. But I don't want debate on non-Wiki partisan matters breaking out, because that too often leaves editors with high blood pressure instead of a feeling of relaxation and refreshment. (Wiki-related matters provide enough of the former.) Keeping that in mind, you are a welcome and valued member of my glittering salon of talk page stalkers. EEng 07:27, 23 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Speaking of debates: wow! It's already here! Monday, 9PM EST! None of us know what to expect, really. Just a crazy ride we're all on. Cheers :> Doctalk 07:36, 23 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
It can now be revealed that I'm the Trump stand-in Clinton's been using in preparing for the debate, so in fact I can say with confidence that I do know what will happen. Unfortunately I can't tell you. Sorry. EEng 07:49, 23 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
You have been blockedindefinitely from editing for not bothering to file a tax return to the IRS for more years than I can shake a stick at. If you think there are good reasons why you should be unblocked, you may appeal this block by first reading the guide to appealing blocks, then adding the following text to the bottom of your talk page: {{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}. Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 15:21, 27 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Looks like the phenomena of bots getting into a bit of "rough and tumble" with each other has made the press. New Scientist article. Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 10:14, 23 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I just learned that we have a page on Radiometric dating. It strikes me as a less-than-ideal way to meet romantic partners. (Although, come to think of it, one might meet someone who is hot.) The curator could perhaps do something with that. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:20, 3 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry about that. As you can see from the article history, I started reviewing the article at 21:03 UTC, but when I tried to post my review 20 minutes later, you had just started yours. Hope I didn't cause you to lose too much time over it. Best, Yoninah (talk) 21:58, 8 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Sweet Yoninah, I was just kidding. EEng 22:02, 8 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Fussing over userpage content
You can't include the entire lyrics of a Randy Newman song. Copyright reasons, you know. Take it down; maybe include a small excerpt. DS (talk) 16:12, 9 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Not that Randy Newman would mind, of course, but you're right – rules are rules, and President Trump is definitely going to be a strong enforcer of intellectual property law, he being such an intellectual himself. Personally, I'm gratified you read far enough to notice. EEng 16:34, 9 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
"You atheist! Clearly, it should 1 AD, to reflect common usage!"
"I think, if we use AD, we should prefix it, while CE should always be suffixed. With a grave accent over the E.""
"How about we use (year) to end the religious issues?""
"That's not common usage!! But it's common style on Wikipedia! But it's not—it's—uh—" Editor's head explodes from the contradiction, causing mild confusion as to whether (Gregorian year) or (Julian year) would be more appropriate.
"That previous RfC simply does not show enough consensus. I will take legal action against the Year Name Cabal!!"
...until the discussion sinks to the bottom of Graham's hierarchy of disagreement and everyone agrees on the eminently sensible [insert your favorite disambiguation here].
Now, to do something useful before I clutter up this talkpage any more... Eman235/talk 16:35, 11 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
In all seriousness, I know someone who may be able to contribute usefully. Paging Hertz1888. EEng 19:45, 11 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Disgusting words
This caught my attention as something you might find interesting, if you didn't already know about it: Jean Berko Gleason's disgusting word list. —David Eppstein (talk) 17:35, 12 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't know about it, so thanks! EEng 05:45, 14 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Since you have a good grasp of things, I was wondering if you wouldn't mind looking at Talk:Donald Trump sexual misconduct allegations#List of sources and post any updates, etc. that you see fit. I'm about to go through and replace the less desirable sources and your input would be helpful, if you have the time.--CaroleHenson(talk) 05:34, 15 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
CaroleHenson, I think I better restrict myself to strictly stylistic copyedits, staying away from anything substantive. If you check out my user page you'll see why. EEng 05:49, 15 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, somehow I missed this, but we got there pretty quickly!--CaroleHenson(talk) 03:38, 16 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
CaroleHenson, I just wanted to thank you for your hard work on the article, and encourage you to keep it up despite the obvious difficulties. It's important. EEng 03:04, 16 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Hello, That is so very nice of you! Your second comment is lovely and very much appreciated! I do get frustrated sometimes, but mostly I think it's a really good group working on the article, and the individual efforts come together in a lovely synergistic way. It's so nice to see how many editors, like you, make great edits and keep the article in great shape! (I hope that makes sense, I'm getting a little punchy!)--CaroleHenson(talk) 03:38, 16 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
"This candidate makes personal attacks at RfA when they ...." "Wrong!" ... "...leads to an incivil environment..." "Wrong!" "...admin numbers are dropping...." "Wrong!"
Please desist from further comparisons of Trump to Hitler. It has been categorically denied by someone who should know. Robevans123 (talk) 22:19, 18 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Though I love the bit where he refers to Goebbels as "Skeletor", I actually think this [110] is better. Just to be clear (as you know, but for the benefit of eavesdroppers) I would never seriously compare anyone to Hitler -- that would be a BLP violation. EEng 01:50, 19 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Absolutely! A purely jocular interjection on my part. I did like the references to Celebrity Apprentice and haircuts though. Robevans123 (talk) 23:05, 19 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I expect we'll get a bunch of people turning up saying RfA is rigged and all Republican editors get strong oppose !votes for no reason. Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 13:04, 20 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The fact that people aren't saying that proves there's a conspiracy to suppress the truth. Shock Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 13:20, 20 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
From now on, I'm going to keep everyone in suspense about whether or not I'll accept the results at AfD. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:57, 20 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The Ritchie333 request service is asking for a witty riposte for some of the banter on the AfD, particularly the reference to Hitler's testicles. Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 15:34, 28 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
No barnstar is better than this barnstar, believe me!
The Donald Trump Barnstar
Your userpage is hilarious. MB298 (talk) 00:17, 30 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Barada nikto! EEng 09:10, 30 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Disruption at WT:MOS
Your comments at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style#MOS:LQ is self-contradictory are counter to existing consensus as to the existence of the MOS:LQ guideline. Please seek a new consensus separately if you like, but please refrain from further off-topic disruption of that discussion (arguing against consensus is disruption by definition). The title of the thread is "MOS:LQ is self-contradictory", not "Should MOS:LQ exist?" Thanks. ―Mandruss☎ 07:35, 30 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
For those playing along at home, Mandruss is talking about this comment [111]. Mandruss, I have great respect for you as an editor, but on this point you're being ridiculous, particularly your idea that "arguing against consensus is disruption by definition". Consensus can change (though I don't hold out much hope in this case) and if it does, it's because someone spoke up and said something most everyone else disagreed with. EEng 08:06, 30 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, the respect is generally mutual (and I like your humor when good-natured and in a situation where it's not in the way of important discussion). Also this comment.[112] Yes consensus can change, but there are better ways to seek it than to make off-topic comments and see who supports you there. Try to imagine a scenario where your comments sparked an outpouring of MOS:LQ opposition in that thread which resulted in the elimination of that guideline. I think that's a highly implausible scenario. That kind of thing needs the structure provided by the RfC format. ―Mandruss☎ 08:23, 30 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
<extends hand to shake> No hard feelings, pal. LQ is, unfortunately (not that it matters all that much) here to stay, so there's no point in an RfC or whathaveyou. However, I think there's benefit to the occasional subversive aside now and then, just to remind others who may think they're alone that in fact they're not the only ones who have avoided being absorbed into the Borg. EEng 09:09, 30 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Fair enough compromise. Subversive aside noted and on the record. Thank you. Now I hope we can stick to the topic. ―Mandruss☎ 10:55, 30 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
If 30 other editors each invoke their right to a subversive aside (why should you be special?), and that collectively makes it very difficult to make progress on the thread topic, I think that would reveal a flaw in your approach. Maybe that's premature. ―Mandruss☎ 11:07, 30 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
(talk page stalker)I'll try and think of something suitably subversive. Hey you guys, try not to beat yoursleves up so much. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:18, 30 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Subversion: Mandruss asked about EEng's ejaculations at WT:MOS, but maybe they were premature. But don't worry, EEng's hands are just fine, I guarantee you that! --Tryptofish (talk) 14:24, 30 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
There's a good reason why Wikipedians(,) at large(,) [see?] exhibit a strong bias in favour of LQ: As you, EEng, have apparently already intuited or even implied, Wikipedia attracts the sort of people who have internalised the fact that – at least in many contexts highly relevant to them – punctuation matters. And who are simply prone to arguing about (what some would call) "stupid, pointless crap". (Or, alternatively, "stupid, pointless crap.") That said, given that LQ has already commonly been called thus since at least the 1960s and had already been in use before that, your assertion that it "was devised by people who mistake English punctuation for a programming language" is almost certainly incorrect. (Interestingly, a reader's comment at the linked Slate article cites an unnamed source alleging that the American convention arose due to a practical consideration in the age of the metal movable-type printing press!) --Florian Blaschke (talk) 12:51, 11 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Tommy Tucker (squirrel)
Allergy warning!
This talk page may contain nuts, nuts, jokes about nuts, and nuts who converse with a nut who often concerns himself with nuts. Be aware that epinephrine shots are unavailable, although, judging by this page's content, shots of alcohol are quite bountiful, as are those ever endearing "cheap shots", which will be handed out to all attendees on a regular basis. Page may also contain copious amounts of corn and cheese.
"Fussing" is insulting. Implying I'm a bigot who thinks "cross-dressing is somehow wrong", if that's what you were trying to do, would be egregiously insulting. When all I did was take the time to provide an in-depth review, and pick the hook where I anticipated there would be the fewest problems, there is no need to be that offensive. Ribbet32 (talk) 00:27, 31 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Nuts!
For those playing along at home, the OP objects to this post of mine. Even members of my glittering array of talk-page stalkers—all connoisseurs of half-baked, fly-off-the-handle malapropistic[1] indignation, of which we get a lot around here for some reason—will enjoy an Eats, shoots, and leaves belly-laugh when they absorb this one. I proposed the DYK "hook"
Wearing clothing is a human characteristic. An animal can't be a transvestite, or a cross-dresser, really.
Then after some back and forth, I chided you for your continued
fussing that cross-dressing is somehow wrong.
And then you came here to pop your cork, saying that I had implied that you're "a bigot who thinks 'cross-dressing is somehow wrong'". I implied nothing of the sort. You should review MOS:WORDSASWORDS, wherein is explained the difference between my implying that you think
At the risk of going seriously off topic, I can't stop thinking of this advertising campaign, to which the near universal response of children throughout the UK was "Squirrel Shit!" (or in more refined quarters "Squirrel Poo!"). Robevans123 (talk) 15:45, 31 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Juanita Musson
Quirky Hook of the Year
A toast for the quirkiest hook of the year with Juanita Musson, currently appearing in Prep 5. Job well done. — Maile (talk) 22:54, 31 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
For those playing along at home, Maile's talking about this DYK item:
... that Juanita's Galley was noted for a "fabulous" breakfast, potluck, the proprietor's "unpredictable disposition", and a 40-person brawl featuring car jacks, pipes, steel bars, a fishbowl and an ax?
Like screenwriters, we hookers labor largely in obscurity. By taking time out to visit, Maile66, you've brought a ray of sunshine into the life of an otherwise forgotten shut-in. EEng 00:08, 1 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
A beer for you!
I sort of doubt I'll be able to get through election night without drinking heavily. But I'll give it my best effort. GABgab 15:50, 1 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
To what do I owe this cordial visit? EEng 15:58, 1 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Apparently, something is brewing. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:16, 1 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
No, I just like visiting museums, such as the ones you curate. GABgab 18:35, 1 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, I was just making a joke on "brewing", not really implying that something odd is going on! --Tryptofish (talk) 20:42, 2 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Decaf
You wouldn't want me on decaf, since that would make me cranky from lack of caffeine. (I'm actually far less cantankerous than people think I am; they seem to assume I'm always being dead serious, and imagine me scowling, when I may be laughing). — SMcCandlish ☺☏¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼ 23:26, 2 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I need this like I need a hole in the head. EEng 13:29, 6 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
So I guess you are not going to bite? --Tryptofish (talk) 21:36, 6 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Good one. I'm obviously slipping. EEng 22:16, 6 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Many thanks
Hello EEng. I just wanted to say thank you for your various museums. They have helped me immensely in living through this craziest (the nicest word I could think of - the others are much darker) of elections. Well, the day is finally here and a fellow wikipedian dropped this gem off on my talk page. I thought I would share it with you in appreciation of your sage sensibilities. Thanks again. MarnetteD|Talk 16:09, 8 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I watched the clip, and was not impressed - don't care about the Trump part, just the bullhonkey about Brexit - so am unable to resist responding to it. We've had this little Brexit incident where we voted to leave the European Union. Ah, not that most of us wanted to of course, no no. It was just those people who bothered to vote. Poppycock, you regressives wanting to undermine the democratic process. You had your opportunity, and despite the largest voter turnout for anything in who knows how long (if ever), you lost. You self-righteous buggards. Democracy may be the worst system, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time. I get that this is meant to be a joke, so no hate directed towards anybody, except for "SavetheDay" as they seem to genuinely believe the hogwash they spread. Mr rnddude (talk) 17:15, 8 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Just as it's clear most Americans voting for Trump don't understand the implications of doing so, it's apparent that many or most of those voting for "Brexit" didn't understand the implications of doing that, either. Saying so isn't an attempt to undermine the democratic process, but rather a call to strengthen its foundation, which is an educated and informed electorate. I thought the video was brilliant (in the sense in which the English use the word). EEng 18:05, 8 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I hate to point out but your choices in the U.S. give you the option between a liar and an idiot. [I]t's apparently that many or most of those voting for "Brexit" didn't understand the implications of doing that, I don't think you could be more wrong. The proof will be in the pudding - if it ever gets baked. The EU is looking more like a trojan horse to me everyday. [A]n educated and informed electorate - you'll only ever see a voter as "informed" if they think like you do. There's plenty of informed voters who voted for and against Brexit and whether you like it or not, there's plenty of informed voters voting for Hillary and Trump. Same info, different outcome. Mr rnddude (talk) 18:37, 8 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
you'll only ever see a voter as "informed" if they think like you do. I don't know whether that's the way you operate, but it's not the way I do. However, facts are facts, and since the overwhelming majority of self-described Trump supporters still think that Obama was born in Kenya, there would seem to be a severe informedness gap. As for Brexit, interviews post election show that many, if not most, Yes voters could not describe coherently what the EU is or does, or even pick it out on a multiple-choice list of descriptions of important international organizations.
However, as I have with other such threads on the page, I would like to declare this debate closed. This page is meant for discussions about improving the encyclopedia, or to provide pleasant relief for editors from the humdrum cares of editing – not political debate. EEng 19:02, 8 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Fair enough, I won't engage further except for one minor detail; I don't know whether that's the way you operate - If it were I'd be utterly confounded as to your support of Clinton. As it so happens I am not. Mr rnddude (talk) 19:10, 8 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Then I don't see why you ascribed that attitude to me. Anyway, thanks for understanding. EEng 19:20, 8 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Refer my talk page - unintended consequence of the phrasing. I do not think you hold that attitude. Mr rnddude (talk) 19:22, 8 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
My, this is a close election. Not nearly as comically one-sided as projected, yes? Perhaps that can make its way into the "museum"? Doctalk 06:37, 9 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
If we can think of something comic to say about it, yes. EEng 06:41, 9 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Eh, I for one support Brexit. As for the Donald, well, we'll have to wait and see. I had a comic thought about a short trump speech; Trump on the Birther Movement; "She started it", Everybody else; Mr Trump... t-this is the third presidential debate. Not kindergarten. Trump: Wrong! Mr rnddude (talk) 09:06, 9 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
".... most Americans voting for Trump don't understand the implications of doing so", dearest EEng you will next be telling us that the Pope is Catholic and bears defecate in woods (as long as the woods aren't Canadian or Mexican, in which case they just "perform" on the wall instead). Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 10:03, 9 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Good to see Donald Tump is having trouble with his "R"s - lets hope nobody throws an elbow into the discussion... Robevans123 (talk) 11:04, 9 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
When they go low, we go high.
Dear EEng: Like many editors here, I am very saddened to learn of the executive order to have you deported to Mexico. Truly, I have enjoyed editing with you. As for me, when they go low, we go high, and several states approved legal cannabis, so I intend to spend the next four years getting high. --Tryptofish (talk) 16:27, 9 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Well, it looks like we could have printed any hook and still gotten tens of thousands of hits; I think it was the picture that you posted that did the trick! Yoninah (talk) 11:25, 13 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Well, imagine if we'd called him a cross-dresser! EEng 15:34, 13 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Leave it to you to inject something dirty into wholesome kids' entertainment. BTW, did you know we're part of a gay-bashing lynch mob [114]? EEng 23:28, 13 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
"Leave it arht, me ol' china!! Just keep your marf shut, okay?? .. or me and Billy will 'ave to send the boys rahnd. In all clubs you get the occasional drunk and they 'ave to be slung arht. I intend to get married as soon as possible and Billy just wants to be left alone." Martinevans123 (talk) 23:44, 13 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
[115], of course. EEng 02:37, 14 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Well, Ritchie333, you certainly made this suggestion at just the right moment. But now that the excitement's over, let's go ahead. I supplied the hook, so you make the nomination; I don't want to tempt fate. EEng 03:19, 18 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The article isn't long enough yet. Let me see if I can ferret out a review of the single - that should do it. Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 08:23, 18 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Please be advised that I have filed an Arbitration Enforcement request regarding your userpage here. The WordsmithTalk to me 22:20, 16 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Required notice
This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Softlavender (talk) 23:46, 16 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. How come I always attract the attention of admins with under 10K edits who haven't edited in years except to come out of the woodwork to give me the benefit of their gentle minstrations? EEng 00:14, 17 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Menstruations? Spellcheck much? Softlavender (talk) 13:06, 17 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Ewww Softy, did you have to say that while I was eating lunch? Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 13:08, 17 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Can somebody remind me what the problem was with that picture of a gorilla with a caption "Even though I'm an arbcom member, I'm simply commenting here as an everyday, average editor?" I've just made a subtle reference to it elsewhere. Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 12:23, 17 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
There wasn't anything wrong, just Nakon thought there was -- remember, he's the one with the "cold medicine" excuse. Follow the link he refers to here [117] to see the original comment. EEng 17:13, 17 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Userpage
I've recreated your userpage as of immediately before the AE posting, minus the disputed section, at User:EEng/temp; feel free to just cut-and-paste it as you see fit. Intentionally created in your userspace rather than mine, to allow you to vanish it just by slapping {{db-u1}} on it if you don't want it hanging around. ‑ Iridescent 23:53, 16 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I knew something good would come from all of this, and maybe some of that good will be that someone will change the name of that image asap (blp and xyz being taken into account) not to mention that maybe you should throw some obscuring moondust on your caption there. Randy Kryn 01:32, 17 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I tried to rename the image but file moves on Commons make my head hurt, so I've just had to give some advice at the deletion request instead. Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 12:34, 17 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
...on the other hand (the one holding a blue umbrella), if the young woman does employ herself in our oldest and most honest profession, this is about the best thing that could happen in promotional terms, and my apologies to her for going on about it so. On the complaining page EEng pretty much accused me of being full of lust (per my user/useless name), and, full disclosure, I had no retort or canonical abode to escape such a ludicrously self-evident charge. Randy Kryn 12:50, 17 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The Hookers chose their name, this woman may have known nothing of this and was on the street hawking blue umbrellas, a semi-trendy tattoo parlor, and Oz slipper knock-offs. Aside from chivalry of some kind and feeling protective of Wikipedia, I pushed at this issue a little because of the humorous irony which EEng pointed out. During a discussion about BLP violations out popped, totally separate from EEng's content, the biggest BLP violation on the site. That's entertainment. Randy Kryn 00:35, 18 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sorry, but your comment assumes that there's something shameful about being a hooker, and is thus a form of hate speech. I'm reporting you at AE. EEng 03:04, 18 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I personally like Robert Anton Wilson's definition of the professionals: 'tantric engineers'. Could be a category name. Congrats on the page come-back, I hope the lady in red appears within it, a story to tell your grandchildren. Randy Kryn 3:21, 18 November 2016 (UTC)
I complained here about the userpage. Didn't really do anything about it. Expected Hillary to win, and for it to become a shrine. Of... "hilarity"! Anyhoo, things will surely work themselves out. The financial markets aren't exactly spelling "doom-and-gloom".[118] Don't believe the hype! Cheers :> Doctalk 08:10, 18 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Looks like I missed quite a party! It could never have lasted, I guess. I suggest you put your creative energies towards political cartooning; the Crimson keeps advertising for a contributor, or you could go for national syndication. FourViolas (talk) 19:55, 18 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
In American education there's something called "the P.E. Syndrome": the observation that a disproportionate number of Physical Education teachers become, ahem, administrators such as principals and vice-principals. Why? Because P.E. teachers have no lessons to prepare and no homework and exams to grade, leaving ample time to take the supplementary courses in educational theory required to move up through the ranks. As they say, "Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach. And those who can't teach, teach gym" – and then become principal, I guess. There's a similar phenomenon here at WP, and it's especially obvious when you look at the contributions history of the clue-challenged admin who opened that ridiculous discussion. EEng 17:48, 19 November 2016 (UTC) (P.S. No disrespect meant to the many good principals, vice-principals, and coaches out there -- just pointing out that, as in policing – and WP adminship, for that matter! – there are a number of bad apples that make the rest look bad.)[reply]
I go off Wikipedia for a week, and I miss all the good stuff, sadly. What a ridiculous mess: some Wikipedians just do not have a sense of humor. When I said above that you were going to be deported, I had no idea that it would be true. And of course they got it all wrong: they should have archived this talk page instead. Well, I'm glad to see that EEng's sense of humor has not been quashed. And don't get me started about P.E. teachers. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:53, 19 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Wow... you get yourself into a lot of trouble, don't you? I suppose that's the ever-present risk of this type of humor: there are always people who cannot find it in themselves to tolerate it, and those people sometimes have the will and the ability to do something about it, even if it flies in the face of what is ultimately the greater good. On a positive note, that printed out copy of your user page I have has greatly increased in value! I would put it up on eBay, where I'm sure it would fetch thousands, but the sentimental value is simply too much. Colonel Wilhelm Klink (Complaints|Mistakes) 19:58, 20 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Didn't the discussion end with saying you can put your user page back, minus some cuts and giggles related to the esteemed leader? Please raise the curtain again, the crowd out here is getting rowdy and none the wiser. Randy Kryn 11:26, 21 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Patience, patience, Igor! All in good time! EEng 13:43, 21 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Flattering! But that so-called essay (a one-sentence essay) was deleted in 2013 on my own request, see Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:Do not say "With all due respect", where I stated I regretted ever putting it in Wikipedia space. Somebody has pointed the redirect WP:WADR to WP:WikiSpeak#WADR, which the "essay" was anyway redundant with, so all is good, Ritchie333; you can still use WP:WADR in conversation. (If you want to amaze yourself, check out WT:WADR for some of the lamest waste of timediscussion and greatest stubbornness over nothing I've seen in all my years here. Appropriate in a twisted way, I suppose.) Bishonen | talk 16:48, 21 November 2016 (UTC).[reply]
While I can do all of these things, I just feel the way the sentiment was delivered in the original essay was succinct, direct, and unambiguously to the point. Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 15:50, 22 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Brilliantly fashioned, if I may presume that my humble opinion is of any value. EEng 22:34, 7 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed it is (your opinion being of value, that is, although I also agree about the brilliant part), and thank you! The office pool is now open for estimates of the time that will elapse before some defender of the wiki will come along and want me blocked or something. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:44, 7 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe I should, on request, email people each one little little bit of The Old Museums for them to add to their user pages. Kind of spread it around. EEng 22:49, 7 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, like fertilizer or influenza. (Just don't attempt to email your talk page.) --Tryptofish (talk) 22:55, 7 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
AFD favor?
Would you be available to close out AFD William A. Whiting? The nominator KAVEBEAR wants it withdrawn because he expanded the article 5X after reconsideration. I can't close it out, because I was involved in the AFD dialogue. — Maile (talk) 01:46, 20 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
</joke> I couldn't resist :-) Nyttend (talk) 17:03, 2 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Goodness. Sounds WP ist being unterentertained at the moment. Polentarion Talk 18:27, 2 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
(For those playing along at home, this is re [120].) Perfect. Now it can truly be said that I've been blocked so many times, it's a joke. EEng 18:29, 2 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
EEng, from now on, nobody can accuse you of having the most idiosyncratic sense of humor on the project. You have been surpassed in terms of utter weirdness. And once again, I missed all the fun! Only one second, and I wasn't even here. --Tryptofish (talk) 00:19, 3 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Hey, I just realized that the "Wikipedians who have been nominated for deletion" category has gone blue! --Tryptofish (talk) 00:21, 3 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
People afraid to call Nazis what they are
You're being mentioned, indirectly, here, where another editor is calling you "surreptitious" for calling Nazis Nazis. (Actual Nazis, not the modern ersatz ones.) —David Eppstein (talk) 00:31, 4 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. Perhaps you're unaware of the general circus Lava Baron is putting on at WT:DYK. EEng 02:14, 4 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
(ec) I said "disingenuous" (not straightforward or candid). If it's in the hook, why can't it be in the article? (The article is what looks disingenuous to me.) Yoninah (talk) 00:34, 4 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
It's not necessary to explain that WW2 Germany was a (the) Nazi state any more than it's necessary to explain that the "American president" is the "President of the United States". EEng 02:14, 4 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
FirstLast-ever close
If one editor is warned not to insult and the other trouted for reverting, how was that a content dispute? And I am being nice here to you... Debresser (talk) 05:16, 8 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
For those playing along at home, this concerns my close at [121]. Don't do me any favors. ANI is for serious stuff, not someone calling you a bad name. You got your warning and your trout, so go back to improving articles. EEng 06:39, 8 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
It is not much fun improving articles, when other editors can obstruct you from doing that and can call you names for trying too. I have been along for over 8 years, and believe me that I have seen drama. This was not a content issue but a behavioral one, for which the other editor was rightfully warned, so you made the wrong call calling this a content issue. Now you can play the lofty admin who per definition is right, but just that you should know, you weren't, and it won't be the first or the last time. Debresser (talk) 14:33, 8 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Who made EEng an admin? I demand they return their tools - the ones they don't have - right now. In all seriousness, the warning and trout I handed out were most probably the best scenario outcome. I don't think a block or PBAN were on the cards. Hell, if I hadn't handed out the warning myself, they mightn't even received one. Furthermore, the editor - who's name is too convoluted for me to spell from memory (Nomoskedacity I think?) - remains in denial that their comment constitutes an NPA violation and at least a few of the editors were far less concerned with the incivility then they were with their interpretation of the equal representation issue on the article. Where's the equal representation of women at Nazism? there's women nazi's as well and right now that article is 100% dominated by men. The injustice of it all. WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS comes to mind. Besides, unless they cross the line further, a warning for a first offence is what is expected anyway. Mr rnddude (talk) 14:54, 8 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I don't have a problem necessarily with the closing of the ANI, but the warning, and possibly trout, should have been mentioned in the close. It was not JUST a content dispute, as you mentioned there was an NPA issue and that is what brought the case to ANI. 🔯 Sir Joseph🍸(talk) 14:59, 8 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm... fair enough actually. If EEng wants to they can put "content dispute if I ever saw one with PA's and EW - for which warnings have been administered - to boot". If that would more accuaretly summarize the thread. That's up to EEng though. Mr rnddude (talk) 15:07, 8 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with you about righting great wrongs, but I think that should stay on the talk page, until it gets to be a big disruption. If I weren't involved, I would have closed it with the mention of a warning, so that it can be seen in the future should it be needed and that is why closing statements are important. I would also use the NAC template which is what is usually required for a non-admin closure. 🔯 Sir Joseph🍸(talk) 15:10, 8 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Now I see why admins are all so cranky. [122]EEng 17:02, 8 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
LOL I have to admit, that you have a sense of humor. I say that regarding your section header. Okay, so you f-ed up your first close. No big deal. Go forth and be fruitful. :) Debresser (talk) 12:37, 9 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Hey, watch it with the gay jokes! EEng 12:40, 9 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Go forth and sin no more than strictly necessary... Kleuske (talk) 22:58, 9 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I hope you've learned a valuable lesson about closing discussions in good faith! AlexEng(TALK) 06:01, 10 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, and that lesson is: don't close discussions. Pardon me, but are we related? EEng 06:10, 10 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I've learned that lesson as well. We might be related. Does the "Eng" stand for "Engineering?" It does for me. AlexEng(TALK) 06:29, 10 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
It does, but I wouldn't read too much into that. EEng 06:42, 10 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Too late. I've told everyone I know. AlexEng(TALK) 06:52, 10 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
[FBDB]Luckily that's you and your imaginary friend, you engineering nerd. EEng 06:54, 10 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Excuse you. I remind you of Wikipedia's policy on no personal attacks. I can take it, but Baxter is sensitive. Stand by for ANI. AlexEng(TALK) 07:06, 10 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Why didn't anyone think of this before? Now let's see if he sockpuppets. EEng 18:18, 8 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Uh-oh. Now we'll be sending ground troops into Twitter. --Tryptofish (talk) 00:38, 9 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Laugh while you still can. EEng 04:25, 9 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
You are right. Any minute now, an admin is going to come along and delete me because I violated BLP or something. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:52, 9 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Worry
Thank you in advance for the new Museum. I do worry and thank heavens am not alone. -SusanLesch (talk) 15:17, 9 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I agree completely
Just wanted to clarify that, even within the collapsed echo-chamber, it was getting increasingly annoying for at least one of the participants as well as for anyone else who might have been trying to read it. I was honestly hoping someone would (again) come along and tell us to shut up so that I would have an excuse to stop replying and not have it look like I was deliberately ignoring him just to be antagonistic (believe it or not that actually happened before). I will try to take your advice, and I hope he does too.
Anyhow, my main reason for posting this here is just to clarify that the "thank you" I just gave you was not meant ironically. Believe it or, not, that is also something that has happened on at least two occasions (I was the one receiving the ironic thanks; I don't know if my thanks have been interpreted ironically).
Glad to be of service. EEng 01:06, 10 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Your recent ANI comment
Don't you think that, in this context, you should have put quotation marks around the words "professional" and "wrestling", as I have done here? Cullen328Let's discuss it 06:10, 11 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
A great idea for a research project
Go through various noticeboards, and catalog the subject area that produced complaints for some thousands of random threads, which can be normalized by the number of articles/edits in mainspace articles of that subject. Should make for an interesting read - hopefully someone does it, and we can get support for your proposals. Someguy1221 (talk) 06:14, 11 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I've been saying this for years. Instead of # of articles, I think the right metric would be page views. My prediction would be that the lowest signal-to-noise ration will be found in: footy, wrestling, porn stars, and music genres. Eliminate those and we can all live happily ever after. EEng 07:12, 11 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
That's very interesting (and for once at this talk page, I'm not joking). Dramas per page view. I think there might actually be a bimodal result. The greatest frequency of obvious idiotic conduct (in other words, where it is easy to see what the problem was and how to deal with it) would indeed be in those topics. But if instead one focused on the most intractable conflicts, a different population would emerge, with a lot of religion, politics, and pseudoscience showing up. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:45, 11 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Some years back during the height of the MMA wars, I suggested wiping out the entire MMA wiki project. Best analogy would be the nuke from orbit option. Full saturation. Even had a few people agreeing. Blackmane (talk) 23:25, 11 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
If you want to avoid intractable conflict, specialize in writing and editing biographies of 19th century state legislators. They all meet WP:POLITICIAN so you need not fear AfD. Other than that, nobody cares, which gives an ambitious editor free reign. The downside, of course, is that nobody cares. Cullen328Let's discuss it 06:38, 13 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I would have thought that pages about species of aquarium fishes would be similarly drama-free. Alas, I've seen nasty arguments started by WP:ELNO and WP:NOTHOWTO advocates who care more about rules than about subject matter. Far from intractable, but enough to surprise me. By now, nothing surprises me anymore. After all, early in my editing career I got death threats because I had said that I thought that an image from a Japanese comic book did not need to be deleted from part of a page that was discussing that image. (It was when the geniuses at Something Awful were on a crusade to delete anything about Japanese pop culture from Wikipedia because... well, they just couldn't stand it.) --Tryptofish (talk) 22:34, 13 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Funny, we seem to be on the same wavelength today [123]. EEng 00:41, 14 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Monopowiki userbox template
Have you ever considered making a userbox template that would track how many dollars you have in the game? Some of them are obviously untrackable (like editor review, R.I.P), and others hard to track, like third opinion, but most of the user rights can be done, and also probably the FAC's and related. IazygesConsermonorOpus meum 02:16, 12 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
This is the second brilliant idea here in the last 24 hours. I'll put this on my list of things to do between now and when I die. EEng 02:19, 12 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
For the record...
I was pinging you in good humor. I'm pretty sure if you hadn't pointed out that it was your first close, everyone would have assumed it wasn't. TimothyJosephWood 00:50, 16 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Worry not. I understood. EEng 00:59, 16 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Allow me to reveal your destination (at least the pilot knew where he was headed) ;)
"Flight 1549 hit birds on taking off from La Guardia, disabling both engines, but the pilot ditched the plane in the river and everyone survived; investigation confirmed he had made the right decision and he became a hero". ENDS.
...evidenced of course by an appropriate citation.
Although, maintaining an editor's healthy self-criticism, perhaps still the flight number is fancruft? If you had just got out of the sea after a crash landing, would you be bothered about the number? That's another few characters saved!
I wish you a merry Xmas; may you and your American friends find renewed greatness in 2017. IanB2 (talk) 06:46, 19 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
For those playing along at home, this is about US Airways Flight 1549. IanB2 Well, actually, now that you mention it I suppose we could reduce the entirety of the article to, "Accidents will happen. The End."
I hope your comment doesn't hint at concealed resentment. I do feel strongly that too much detail of interest only to the select few made the article a very hard slog for those who wanted a generalist's understanding of what happened, with only such technical information as impacted directly on the event. One technique would be to move such stuff to sections of their own after the main narrative, or to footnotes. See Phineas Gage to see how I've used both techniques to control an abundance of ramified detail on a single subject. EEng 02:50, 20 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Not at all. I am enjoying the gusto with which you are trimming the article. And wanted to wish you a merry Christmas. If it enabled me also gently to make the point that you occasionally throw someone living overboard, that was a bonus ;) IanB2 (talk) 08:58, 20 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
On the stuff you have deleted about the fire service respond, I would suggest restoring the citations and attaching them to the following sentence in the article - the citations provide links to extra stuff on the emergency response, for those that want to research this, and only show as a tiny number on the article so don't delay the casual reader. IanB2 (talk) 23:23, 20 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Sounds like a great idea. Be my guest. If you need help, let me know. EEng 02:38, 21 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
IanB2, wondering if you saw the above. I'd do it myself but you know the sources so much better than I. EEng 04:04, 24 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
season's greetings
it's almost christmas...you didn't die this year...someone on the internet put two and two together and posted something about it...so...maybe things are finally starting to look up TimothyJosephWood 19:51, 21 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I just wanted to make something cynical, after seeing a dozen or so people posting season's greetings on...two or three hundred talk pages each. Seems like it might fit in here. TimothyJosephWood 20:01, 21 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Here at the Wikipedia Home for the Bewildered all are welcome. EEng 20:16, 21 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
... if I were to refrain from raising my beverage vessel to you in appreciation of your efforts at Fred West on the quest we would be forced to pursue of eliminating unnecessary usage (which would not be inaccurately described as "virtually all usage") of the "Forensic Files" past prospective tense. Children who grew up watching half-hour crime reconstructions on cable would grow up to become writers who apparently believe it would make them sound like hard-hitting professional journalists, and even reasonably reputable print organs would begin to use the pointless affectation as liberally as the peanuts a Dairy Queen employee would dollop generously onto a sundae he would have doused immediately prior with hot fudge. Reasonable minds would consider a public awareness campaign if there weren't arguably bigger fish that would require frying. Hoping you will go on to have a happy 2017! - Julietdeltalima(talk) 17:37, 22 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not prepared to fully rise to this haughty and aloof ludicrosity (although I could should I wish to do so) beyond saying that not only do some of us prepare ourselves with exhaustive hours spent (beyond watching and reading crime fanzines which you seem to believe I solely do so to leave - in your mind - a charlatan legacy), to create and populate articles with reputable/verifiable references for the ULTIMATE benefit of the global community and NOT myself, but that we do NOT devote similar energy to dismiss others' effort. In the 8 years I've been doing this your comment takes the cake. User EEng please don't think I am even slightly lassoing yourself in here to this reply. User:Julietdeltalima, I'll take you WAY beyond Wikipedia crime-wise if you like to attest to what I can detach myself to (I was tempted to add an ultimate, non-Wikipedia link but won't do so but ask me on my talk page and I'll do so). Do what I do, to the extent to which I do, with the capabilities of retaining your emotions and sanity, then come back to me and ridicule me. Regards.--Kieronoldham (talk) 02:22, 15 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Peace, brothers and sisters! Remember, Kieronoldham, I wasn't able to resist making some fun of your style myself. You forgave me, so please forgive Julietdeltalima. J.d.l., be nice to Kieron from now on. EEng 03:03, 15 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
It's nothing personal, EEng. (it Up! Break it Up!) I just checked your page to see if there were any observations of the article thus far and read that for the 1st time. I know it's retrospective to a degree. Just had to let my thoughts known. No disrespect intended to any individual. Sicko signs out. ;)--Kieronoldham (talk) 03:10, 15 January 2017 (UTC) Regards.[reply]
No personal offense intended to Julia; I suspect she didn't know it was largely a solo effort to the then-date of construction. Maybe this is a gripe to a degree, but generally on Wiki. I see no shortage of reference etc. tagging but not a degree of effort from those asking for citations etc. to populate the web themselves. Julia don't take it personally. With 4 or 5 exceptions I've encountered on Wiki. over the years, people can't detach themselves to do this type o' topic. That's actually one of the reasons I devote attention largely to this topic. Off-topic to a degree, but I work with data. All the best to yous both.--Kieronoldham (talk) 03:20, 15 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I'm just trying my best to populate an article most could not surmount their nervous system to evolve to how it could be (and in my way is albeit with slightly meandering sentence structure). Regards.--Kieronoldham (talk) 03:16, 23 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Kieronoldham: And you've done a good job -- took a lot of research. I apologize again if I hurt your feelings, though sometimes I can't resist highlighting awkward turns of the phrase. I hope you feel the article is improved by the tightening, which is mostly done without loss of information, though there will be places where I'll eliminate what I see as overdetail. Feel free to push back. EEng 03:57, 23 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
No worries. I'm sorry if I sounded slightly abrasive. You didn't hurt any feelings; I just sensed - probably wrongly - you were being dismissive. I just find these challenges rewarding and do them ultimately for the benefit of others' reading. I am aware I can add a little too much (superfluous?) detail from time to time. You've tightened and trimmed it quite well. Have a good Christmas.--Kieronoldham (talk) 20:38, 23 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
No, no, your reaction was an understandable one when someone arrives out of nowhere not only taking a hatchet to your hard work, but with some, er, unkind things to say along the way. I hadn't realized the article was mostly one person's work -- usually masses like that are the work of many over a long period. I'm not sure I have the energy to continue, though, at least right now. Maybe I'll drop in from time to time. EEng 21:06, 23 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Okays. I'll be trimming the article a little myself over the coming days. Regards.--Kieronoldham (talk) 22:17, 23 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
A Barnstar for you
The Original Barnstar
Just letting you know your improvements to the Fred West article are appreciated from the heart, EEng. Sometimes overlapping information and personal lexicon can be overlooked. Seasons Greetings, too. Kieronoldham (talk) 00:03, 24 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Trypto, that comment was meant to be a joke, not an attack or criticism. FBDB. Besides, EEng and Martinevans are two people who have linked to sexual content in discussion to each other. His lot was an offhand comment about this talk page and those who frequent it - hello to a lesser extent I gues. That's what I was pointing to. I hope that didn't come out too wrong. Happy to retract or rephrase if EEng likes. Mr rnddude (talk) 01:20, 24 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
My reference to "critics" was meant as a reference to EEng's userpage, where there is a section called "What the critics are saying", and it means "critic" in the sense of someone who appraises or reviews, as opposed to criticism as in finding fault. And I posted here because you didn't ping or whatever, so I figured that EEng and the rest of us in the "lot" would want to know. I don't think that what you said there was particularly offensive, although I guess some humorless types will construe it as EEng and the rest of us having a misogynistic sense of humor or something like that. Personally, I found your post at the RfA kind of tl;dr, and kind of not really helpful for an RfA, but your mileage may differ. --Tryptofish (talk) 01:49, 24 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Mhmm. Fair enough. I probably should have pinged EEng as I did name them. I didn't mostly because as you call it, it is a "tl;dr" that would leave EEng wondering what I'm on about for about half the wall. I did say somewhere towards the end that this was far more a personal comment than a adminship capabilities related one, so it's value as an RfA comment might be more limited. Thanks Tryptofish for leaving the note to EEng and for the reply. Mr rnddude (talk) 01:54, 24 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Eh, for those reading if anyone at all. I've significantly cut my post at Ivan's RfA. It no longer mentions anyone by name and I hope it's less tl;dr'y. This is what Tryptofish was referring to. Cheers, Mr rnddude (talk) 02:25, 24 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I appreciate that. Am I really some kind of apex predator in the Wikipedia ecosystem? And here I thought I was just making the occasional joke here and there to lighten the mood. I've been thinking of nominating myself at RfA just to find out what people really think of me. EEng 02:34, 24 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Well, last I checked the definition of apex predator is grabbing them by the pussy without asking permission, so I figure talking about the pussy without asking for permission is quite a way up there. Maybe not apex but definitely in the top 10. :) Mr rnddude (talk) 02:53, 24 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Well, talking about the pussy of someone in particular, yes, but surely not pussy in the abstract. Anyway, this is all very fine talk comeing from Mr. Nude Dude. EEng 03:16, 24 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
WP:ANI
How could you not realise a discussion had been archived when it has a huge coloured box around it? You had to see the section had been archived to even edit it. It's not controlling what you say to tell you it's not right to reply in an archived discussion. It's against policy. Ss112 05:39, 24 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
You're very sure in your pronouncements, yet your display at ANI shows that you don't listen -- a deadly combination. In the edit conflict page the rendered page is in the middle; if you jump to the bottom (as I did) to pick up the text of my post, then jump to the edit box at the top (as I did) to reinsert that text, you won't see it (as I didn't)isn't even shown, so there's no huge colored box for me to notice. Now for the nth time, as a pile of editors have now told you, stop ascribing dark motives to your fellow editors, stop trying to control what articles they edit, and stop trying to control where and how they post comments. Got it? EEng 06:01, 24 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
"No peace"
With your permission, I'd like to explain "no peace": I used to help out at union protests and "no peace" was a frequently-chanted slogan. Though, using "no peace" does not advocate in any way for any actions that WP:BATTLEGROUND prohibits. I hope I've cleared the confusion that I've unknowingly caused. CédricHATES TPP. 23:59, 24 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I'm from a working-class background so I don't need any pointers on picket-line slogans, thanks. If you think your explanations at ANI are helping your case, you're very much mistaken. I suggest you withdraw your demands for an apology, and try to demonstrate to the community that you understand why everyone is so pissed off at you. If you fail to do this you're very likely to get blocked, possibly indefinitely. EEng 02:21, 25 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I did not! You may collect your gratuity at the usual time and place, using the usual callsign. EEng 18:18, 25 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
MOS reply
Hi EEng. Thanks for your reply to my query. You should be aware that I have already alerted the other editor to the existence of the MOS thread - in case you might prefer to moderate your comment. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 22:35, 25 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, but my comments were meant for public consumption, including by our esteemed colleague—in fact I pinged him. Someone who, after being directed to the MOS provision contradicting his view, insists that "I would also add that my opinion as an individual is at least as valid as yours and if I want to make these changes - which are not a waste of time - I will do so!" is unlikely to become a productive editor. It's also worth noting that (as seen in that quotation, which is copy-pasted straight from his post) he confuses a dash for a hyphen in a discussion in which he emphasizes his superior knowledge of how to use endashes and emdashes! Amazing. EEng 23:09, 25 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I'm not sure that consensus is a concept this editor will be able to embrace - we shall see. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 23:17, 25 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Trust me, we've already seen. Forget consensus, he acknowledges what a house style is and then keeps on arguing. I got my fill of people who lecture others on how to write, without apparently being able to do it themselves, in college Expos. EEng 00:27, 26 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
MOS your way
EEng, you've been given tons of slack to rewrite the MOS your way, though it's not clear what your point is. So when someone (like me) pushes back on one or more of your edits, don't you think it's incumbent on you to discuss before pushing your way in an edit war? Dicklyon (talk) 02:42, 27 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
For those playing along at home, we're talking about this [124]. I don't need any slack, thanks. You may not see the point (reduce distracting overdetail on technical points and general flab and bloat, improve layout, bring related points together...) but from the Thank-Yous I've received apparently others do; there are many eyes on the page and no doubt any changes not perceived as improvements would be rapidly reverted.
As to the matter at hand... You removed an example I had added, stating a concern. I reinserted the example, with an edit summary explaining why I thought your concern was misplaced. You removed again, and I reinserted again, this time in a modified form I thought would address your concern, overfussy though I think it is. That's not an "edit war". EEng 03:37, 27 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Well, the changed version didn't help, so I took it out again; I'm hoping that's the end of it. Dicklyon (talk) 05:40, 27 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Big surprise, Dicky. We're all happy to see you get the thrill of "winning" once in a while. EEng 05:58, 27 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
What's that point of that uncivil rejoinder? Dicklyon (talk) 06:00, 27 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
What uncivil? What rejoinder? All I said is everyone should feel like they're a winner once in a while, so we're all happy for you! But while we're on the subject, I might ask what the point is of your uncivil section header (though please understand that I am not, in fact, asking). EEng 06:26, 27 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Whatever the personality issue, this wave of mass edits to MoS has to stop. I'm liable to revert the entire mess back to the last stable version. Please do not do this sort of thing, EEng. I'm pretty sure that you know that "MoS is unstable, so it's not really a guideline and thus we should ignore it" is among the top 2 or 3 anti-MoS (usually false) rationales of people who would delete or gut the guideline. Stop making it true for them, I beg you. I'm pretty sure you also know that minor clarifying changes often turn out to be controversial, because they subtly shift meaning (or can be misinterpreted as doing so) in ways that affect large numbers of articles. I think you should self-revert that mess, then make a couple of copyediting changes, and let that sit for a week. Give people time to assess whether they actually change anything. Then make a few more. — SMcCandlish ☺☏¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼ 20:19, 27 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
SMcCandlish, I don't think "mess" is an appropriate term. You know how careful I am, and it doesn't sound like you've actually looked yet. Please do. In particular I'd like you, with your mercilessly critical eye, to review these: [125][126][127][128][129][130][131][132][133].
I did look, and saw reasons to object immediately, though only here and there. I am not doing a mass-revert (I oppose those generally, and was hyperbolically indicating frustration). I'm poring over it all now. I agree many of the changes are positive, but some are not. I'm trying to massage back in what needs to be restored without doing violence to your cleanup intent. That said, please don't use guideline pages as sandboxes to experiment with templates and wikimarkup. If you are not "markup master", just ask on the talk page for someone to deal with the matter, like closing up example spacing in a way that doesn't just introduce new problems. I'm about 1/5 done going through it all (including intervening edits by others). I've taken a very hands-off approach to MoS for months and stopped watchlisting it, but I don't think that was a good idea. Now that I'm looking again, many (especially drive-by) edits to the page do not appear to be helpful. (Again, I think many of yours were, it was just the shotgun approach I mostly had an issue with, and I think it's what has alarmed Dicklyon, and I think Tony1 raised a concern, too). — SMcCandlish ☺☏¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼ 03:12, 28 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't expect to do so much at once, but you know how one gets into a groove. But don't worry, I've certainly scratched my itch for now. EEng 22:53, 27 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, I get it. It's just that getting in that fugue state on a guideline can lead to a lot of disputes. Anyway, I just spent several hours poring over all that (and I didn't mean "mess" in a pointed way; where I'm from, "all that mess" is an colloquialism that's equivalent to "all that stuff, which I don't want to think about / deal with / explain right now"), with an eye not just to what I care about but what anyone else is likely to object to. Hopefully we can let it lie for now. PS: I don't care about the exact wording here, just a) there's more than one way (MoS's own lead makes the point "rewrite around dispute when you can", and I like to reinforce this throughout MoS), b) "stilted" is just an opinion, not an MoS "finding of fact". Honestly, I think everyone on earth will just DGaF about making that sentence a tiny bit shorter, so unless you really object to it in some way .... I was tempted to put back a handful of other things but I recognized that they were not really necessary, and had been added as "what if someone stupid thinks it means ..." WP:CREEP and/or that I'd added it myself and was feeling defensive about my word-sprouts; you were right to delete them. Anyway, I would expect some later editors to tweak what you did and what I did after some more, including some possible reversions to the older text. I would suggest we take them to the talk page as line-items to discuss and not edit the page directly. The fact that it's been so stable for most of this year is a major selling point. — SMcCandlish ☺☏¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼ 08:02, 28 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Request
I've had my own share of disagreements with The Rambling Man, but please don't do this again. Newyorkbrad (talk) 03:25, 29 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
[FBDB]Even though I'm on Arbcom, I'm just commenting here as an average, everyday editor.
Well, I won't do it that way again -- wasn't intending to -- but I was absolutely serious in what I said here [134] and will periodically remind DYKers of it until people seem comfortable simply ignoring those of his comments that deserve ignoring. Whatever the value of some of his complaints, they are largely (and perhaps completely -- more than completely) outweighed by his insistence on drowning them in a sea of trivial niggles. It's a shame, because he has an eye for potential problems but no sense of priority. EEng 04:07, 29 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I understand your substantive point, but a nasty presentation risks distracting from it. (FYI, I'm forever recused on anything TRM-related, so my arbship really is irrelevant here.) Newyorkbrad (talk) 04:25, 29 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I'd characterize my presentation as forceful, but your point is valid and I'll keep it in mind. Thanks for visiting, Your Arbship. (BTW, I pointed out to Drmies the other day that one anagram of Arbitration Committee is Motto: recriminate a bit. Perfect, don't you think?) EEng 04:30, 29 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I'm quite sure that His Arbship is a lot better looking than that image. Anyway, he gave good advice. And now I know what gave rise to: [135]. --Tryptofish (talk) 00:21, 30 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Please dont do this and stop making a fool of yourself its not clever, it would be better to educate us as you appear to know the small print of the MoS and explain why we cant add United States to places in the United States in aircraft accident infoboxes. Do you have any suggestions as to where the best place is to mention the United States, thanks. MilborneOne (talk) 13:24, 29 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
There is no best place. Articles don't refer to New York City as New York City, United States, and this has nothing to do with this being what you sardonically call "Usapedia", because we also don't tell our readers that London is in England, Moscow in Russia, or Tokyo in Japan. I explained this twice [136][137], the second time linking the two controlling guidelines –
– which you apparently didn't read, because you once again changed the article to read Washington State, United States and New York City, United States.
You're an admin so I shouldn't have to tell you all this. If you're responsible for the opening of various articles explaining (for example) that Heathrow Airport is in "Hillingdon, London, England, United Kingdom", then you've got a lot of cleanup to do. I might be gentler if you'd omitted the Usapedia crack, which you should probably reserve for when you know what you're talking about. EEng 16:08, 29 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
(talk page stalker) Just wondering -- why would we need to know that the US Airways flight was coming from the United States? :/
Also, MilborneOne, I hate to say this sort of thing, but as an administrator you should at least get your punctuation straight! Eman235/talk 21:16, 29 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Is there any way we could stop the United States being mentioned anywhere? It would be much simpler all round. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:15, 29 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Just wait until the new President is sworn in. (POV-pushing and spam alert: I'm proudly wearing my "Don't blame me. I voted for Hillary." button, that can be obtained from Amazon. Really, I'm actually wearing that button!) --Tryptofish (talk) 00:08, 30 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
MilborneOne, to my astonishment I just stumbled [138] on the fact that you and I already interacted on this issue once, so I really don't understand why we're going over it again. EEng 01:23, 30 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Anagrams
Can't justify putting it on the TP, but similarly cannot resist contributing "Musty anal floe". Primergrey (talk) 02:09, 1 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
For those playing along at home, we're talking about anagrams of the phrase Manual of Style[139] Oh, but you can put it on my talk page??? I guess I can take comfort in knowing that I provide an outlet for the community's otherwise pent-up creativity.
Taking your lead, let's see, um, we've also got Lo! My anal fetus! (not very catchy, if you ask me) and My so-anal flute or My anal flute – so??? (hardly improvements). Oh, wait, how about Lofty anal muse? Possibly some member of my glittering array of talk page stalkers can can expand our
...as the proposer, I am not actually wanting this to pass. I rather want to lay the issue to rest against a tendentious argument. Thanks for your support by so clearly opposing (one of the odder thanks I've given another editor, to be sure). Happy New Year. Eggishorn(talk)(contrib) 01:10, 2 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Eggishorn, as any member of my glittering array of talk page stalkers will attest, I specialize in not giving people the opposite response to the counterfactual strawman they didn't propose. Have you visited The Museums? EEng 01:17, 2 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Stephen West kept getting sent home from school by his math teacher for incorrectly stating in his class that there were 6 feet in a yard.--Kieronoldham (talk) 02:40, 4 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
"An elderly man taking his songbird out for a walk ..."
Sorry if this puzzled you; in retrospect I can see that to a reader not familiar with China it might need some explanation.
It's not unheard of, even today, for older men in China to keep caged songbirds as pets. In mornings they actually take them out, usually in the cages but sometimes (less so now) letting them fly around the city (they eventually return). That's what was happening there.
I'd love to be able to link that to the right article, or section, as a way of explaining it better. If I could but find it ... Daniel Case (talk) 07:41, 4 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I suggest just saying the man was out for a walk, period. The songbird can only confuse. EEng 07:44, 4 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I've given him a Big Scary Warning. I have better things to do than monitor him for compliance, but if he starts this Dash Warrior shit again let me know and I'll send him on his way. (For someone to reach the point where Dicklyon is complaining that they're too obsessed with imposing their personal stylistic preferences deserves some kind of award in its own right.) ‑ Iridescent 19:31, 7 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I was saying as much just the other day. [141] I'll keep an eye. EEng 21:28, 7 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, my high school Russian got me that far. It's the video I'm unclear on. EEng 06:50, 8 January 2017 (UTC) Anyway, didn't the Tsarevich come to an unhappy end?[reply]
When I clicked the link, I got taken to a disgusting compilation of Russians puking after drinking too much booze. As I understand it, there is a tremendous amount of vodka consumption there, so vodka drinking is something of a cliché. EEng Vodka, anyone? --Tryptofish (talk) 18:48, 8 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Then again, it could be Americans puking after the election. So that was Putin's plan! --Tryptofish (talk) 18:50, 8 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I heard about it on NPR. He says it couldn't have happened because he is a germ-phobe. (Really, I heard that.) No wonder he has so many divorces. --Tryptofish (talk) 02:04, 12 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Wikipedia:WINING. Since you had some involvement with the Wikipedia:WINING redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you have not already done so. Pppery 02:26, 13 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Almost nudged you to be more civil over this thread at the time, suspecting that your opening comment might just goad the other editor into being elaborately defensive of something that didn't matter, and I see this has now happened. Someone made an edit without being aware of policy, we made them aware of policy, they went silent: you should WP:DROPTHESTICK at that point. Civility policy is there to avoid wasting everybody's time with unnecessary arguments, as much as anything. --McGeddon (talk) 09:50, 16 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
[For those playing along at home, we're talking about this reversion [146] and this talk page thread [147]] Oh, please. Mr. Dyspeptic called fixing the typo uttrerly in a quotation "the edge of vandalism" and "deliberately destructive" because (he still says even now, though he can't seem to explain how) the error is "textually significant". EEng 18:29, 16 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious... O Fortuna!...Imperatrix mundi. 14:54, 17 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
A shiny whistle for you
A shiny whistle
Here's a whistle for you to blow at some point. I hope you don't anytime soon though! TonyBallioni (talk) 04:44, 23 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I will treasure it always. EEng 05:07, 23 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Clueless editors on parade (part II)
Original section heading: "January 2017"
Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. You appear to be repeatedly reverting or undoing other editors' contributions at Wikipedia talk:Did you know. Although this may seem necessary to protect your preferred version of a page, on Wikipedia this is known as "edit warring" and is usually seen as obstructing the normal editing process, as it often creates animosity between editors. Instead of reverting, please discuss the situation with the editor(s) involved and try to reach a consensus on the talk page.
If editors continue to revert to their preferred version they are likely to be blocked from editing Wikipedia. This isn't done to punish an editor, but to prevent the disruption caused by edit warring. In particular, editors should be aware of the three-revert rule, which says that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Edit warring on Wikipedia is not acceptable in any amount, and violating the three-revert rule is very likely to lead to a block.
I'm one of those people that doesn't get the joke. Wikipedia welcomes your edits but there are other venues for your off-topic discussion.Chris Troutman (talk) 21:51, 25 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
For those playing along at home, this concerns a discussion at Talk:DYK which a certain dyspeptic editor has repeatedly tried to close, because in his opinion it's not useful [148][149], notwithstanding that the discussion was immediately ongoing (e.g. witness the timestamps on the left side of those two diffs, showing that others had commented just minutes before the unilateral "closes").
Unhatting [150][151] a discussion which was inappropriately hatted, so that it can continue, is not "reverting to a preferred version". In fact, our mutual friend's latest "close" even removed another editor's post—my post, if you can believe the nerve [152]. So if anything, it's our dyspeptic friend who is "reverting to a preferred version". Next time, get a clue before butting in.
And the discussion's not off topic. While you may be unable to comprehend it, we're discussing the extent to which politically charged hooks are appropriate. The fact that we're having a little fun along the way, or that you personally are unable to share in that, makes it no less true. Welcome to Wikipedia! EEng 23:42, 25 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Whichever way you look at it, you continually reverted TRM in violation of 3RR, and you shouldn’t because it’s against policy and can get you into trouble. So please desist. And a heads up – TRM has continued the conversation on my talk page and I’ve decided to report him to AN3. When they look into it, they may or may not have something to say to you as well. Hence my note to you. Schwede66 18:22, 26 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Schwede66, looks like you got your hand slapped for trying to do something sensible—welcome to adminship! As you've now learned, our dyspeptic friend has a talent for busybody fussing about nothing, followed by wasting others' time trying to salve his bruised ego by proving he was right—yours is not the only talk page he's posted to about this. He's like Malleus but less clever. (Tip: watch out for anyone who pluralizes forum as fora[153].)
Just to make sure it's clear on the record, I'll point out again that he repeatedly declared the discussion at an end just minutes after others had posted to it [154][155], which is completely inappropriate, and it's no kind of edit warring that I unhatted every time so that discussion could continue. And (importantly) at one point he deleted a post of mine [156], which is completely beyond the pale. It's a great example of the confrontational shit-stirring which earned him both a desysopping and an editing restriction prohibiting him from "insulting and/or belittling other editors". EEng 05:03, 27 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Caption competition
When Tezza met Trump. Sadly, the file isn't CC-BY-SA and "copying to EEng's talk" probably isn't good enough fair use. I'm sure you can come up with something. Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 18:07, 27 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
"Hey, I asked for someone hot!" --Tryptofish (talk) 02:00, 28 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Watch out, Tfish, or some idiot will haul you to ANI for a wanton BLP violation. EEng 04:57, 28 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
For this slightly different image [157]: "I'd grab her pussy but she's probably wearing iron bloomers." EEng 04:57, 28 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Watch out, EEng, or some idiot will haul you to ANI for a wanton BLP violation. EEng 04:57, 28 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
"See her? I got her to pee for me!" Note to self: watch out. --Tryptofish (talk) 00:37, 29 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
For this image [158] of Secretary of Education nominee Betsy DeVos: "Prepare yourself, girls. Mr. Trump's about to join you on stage."
Great to see The Donald "stepping out" with our Tezza: [159]Martinevans123 (talk) 17:15, 29 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Hmmm, yes, unhelpful banter. Trump in drag is not something I would personally relish. But in the age of the executive order, you can expect to get a good roasting for even thinking about it. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:39, 6 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I clicked that link, and I think I saw the end of the world as we know it. Now we actually have red state and blue state coffees. Unbelievable. Or at least, not my cup of tea. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:04, 6 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Bullets and thumbnails
Hi EEng. Just wondered whether you could lend me a hand in trying to fix a layout error, on a particular article. You see, I'm having trouble formatting the layout at Records of Prime Ministers of the United Kingdom, with respect to the positing of a bulleted list adjacent to a thumbnail. The section concerned is here. Thanks.--Nevé–selbert 20:32, 6 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
See MOS:IMGLOC -- this is a known problem. Great work on these articles, BTW. EEng 20:57, 6 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
That said, any admin who encourages consumption of strong German beer to cool down after excessive whine should probably have their mop revoked. That's a frickin' terrible idea. In fact in a manner of speaking, I have it to blame for this edit summary. :P
Hi, EEng. In reference to one of your edit summaries on the Charles Whitman page. The articles were diverged into two separate ones around December or January. If you look at this version of the Whitman article dating from when the entirety was on one page, there is a casualty table. I removed this article from my watchlist and have only recently re-added it. Regards.--Kieronoldham (talk) 22:30, 18 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Kieronoldham, good to run into you again. The current textual presentation of "hits" is numbing, and very hard to absorb. The table in the version you linked is better, but what would really do it right would be a conventional sortable table, with columns something like: Order#, Name, M/F, Age, killed-vs-injured, occupation/role (maybe), Notes/comments/narrative. Where two victims have a common story they could share a spanned cell in the last column. I actually began to do this yesterday but realized it's just too much work given my low interest level in the subject. However, if you're interested I could set up the technical stuff for the table and you can do the grunt work, with me dropping in now and then to criticize what you're doing and run roughshod over it. Deal? ;)
I should also mention that I'm not sure the articles should have been split. I'm not saying they shouldn't, I'm just not sure. Maybe. Maybe not. Yes. No. Um... EEng 22:57, 18 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
There was a discussion on validity of splitting the article which you can find on the talk page of either the Whitman article or the user (whose name I forget) who started the splitting work on the spree page itself. To my mind the rationale is justified even though personally I think they should remain as one article. This article dropped off my radar and I just chose to re-add it a few weeks ago. As for sortable tables, I'll be happy to do it if I get consensus (I know how to create them). I only get a limited amount of talk page engagement myself - which I can understand - even though I just stab at articles until I get the temperature right i.e. - to my mind - eminent.--Kieronoldham (talk) 23:12, 18 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Start the discussion and I'll participate. EEng 23:17, 18 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
For taking up the cause at University of Texas Tower Shooting, which, although you may not know it, was started by a brand new editor from basically scratch, and was probably the best first article I've ever seen. It's good to see the thing stick and get substantive attention from an experienced editor, which is exactly how this whole thing is supposed to work. TimothyJosephWood 16:07, 19 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks! Happy to help. But unless I'm wrong the material was mostly split off from the Whitman article. Since you're here, maybe you have some bright ideas at Talk:University_of_Texas_Tower_Shooting. EEng 16:22, 19 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Some of it was; some of it wasn't. After the draft was made into an article, I did a bit trying to walk the user through the merging process, which they began, but haven't yet completed. Admittedly I've knowingly let a lot of duplication of content sit in mainspace for a while, but the editor seemed enthusiastic and competent, if intermittent, so I figured I would let nature run it's course, and mentor as best I could, since the experience would probably be a valuable one for them. I'll take a look at the article's talk and look toward getting more involved over the next week. TimothyJosephWood 16:29, 19 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Me and Charlies are from the same home town. I grew up with (older) neighbors who knew him. I've heard anecdotes about him from people who knew him and I actually got caught by a cop egging the church he went to. (The cop was protestant and Irish, so he let us go when we gave our excuse as "it's a catholic church").
I'll keep that in mind. You might be interested in the handy template {{fbdb}}, which I invented after this bizarre episode. You fuckface.[FBDB]EEng 00:05, 21 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I like being able to wrap the vicious insultjoke itself into the link, but the tooltip is a great idea which I will be shamelessly stealing from you this weekend.
I've already been accused of using my links (I have two, the other one is here) to hide my personal attacks. To be fair, I had used the text "Shut your stupid pie-hole" as the link text, so not exactly a huge leap there. But it got me to thinking: who, in the grips of a red-hot, raging butthurt would think to try to avoid a block for insulting someone? No-one. So who would put thought into it, and try to be more devious by insulting people with phrases linked to a page which serves only to make it clear they didn't really mean that? Well, the odd moron might, but frankly anyone with some creativity can insult the living hell out of another editor without ever getting so overt as to be blocked. Hell, without even the person being insulted realizing that they're being insulted. It's not hard, and it's not like you're on the spot: you can plan a good insult for hours without anyone knowing that you're not just busy IRL. So I'm curious as to whether anything like that has ever actually happened.
Both you and I independently thought to make "joke" tags of some short. Shirly, we can't be the first. I'm wondering if, buried deep within the dark and musty depths of the ANI archives or the Arbcom archives, is there a case of an editor making a "joke" tag and then actually trying to use it to get away with hurling a bit of nastiness around? One of these days, I'll put on my fedora, strap on my whip and go spelunking for answers, I think. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPantsTell me all about it. 04:34, 21 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@MjolnirPants: "who, in the grips of a red-hot, raging butthurt would think to try to avoid a block for insulting someone? No-one." Wanna bet? There's at least one (currently blocked, I think) editor who used to write things like, "This is a really interesting article for you to look at." --NeilNtalk to me 00:14, 22 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
NeilN, I want to act shocked, but I've been on the internet before. Did they actually argue that that wasn't a personal attack?
For future reference, if I ever say something that implies there is a minimum level of intelligence which is universal in humans; No. I'm not willing to bet on it.
@MjolnirPants: Yes, they said something like, "What? I just linked to an article they might be interested in." --NeilNtalk to me 02:59, 22 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
EEng I think it might say something about me that I just noticed that you actually used that template to call me a fuckface. I'm not willing to hazard a guess as to what it says. Feel free to speculate. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPantsTell me all about it. 01:30, 22 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I bought you something!
I actually appreciate the cheer leading at the joke cat RfC, but there was no way I wasn't going to tease you about it.
Your recent editing history at Harvard University shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See BRD for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.
Being involved in an edit war can result in your being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you don't violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly. X4n6 (talk) 22:02, 21 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. You're always good for a laugh. Like I keep saying, if you want this material removed [161], take it to talk. EEng 23:52, 21 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I'm shocked to learn from the header of this talk section that students are edit warring at Harvard University. They need to stop it, and go back to studying. --Tryptofish (talk) 02:04, 22 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Weird to be templating you for this four days after the edit war seems to have ended. —David Eppstein (talk) 03:03, 22 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
This guy never learns (see multiple sections here [162]). He came back from a hiatus a year ago and since then 10% of his edits have been related to this preoccupation with Harvard. EEng 03:50, 22 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, I'm deeply sorry that I didn't immediately realize that Your Preciousness was above the rules of this project. I must have missed the section of 3RR which clearly stated that you were exempted. All I know is that two separate editors have disputed your edit - and you've reverted them more than 3 times - with zero discussion at talk. But instead of you initiating that discussion, it's their job, right? You revert, but they must initiate talk? Because it's... you - or by your comments above, because we dared infringe on your illusory fiefdom at the Harvard article? Well, although other editors are clearly amused by you - your sense of special privilege and entitlement bores me. If you could simply condescend to follow the same rules which the rest of us unwashed and unworthy lower castes do, then further unwanted interaction with Your Preciousness would be unnecessary. X4n6 (talk) 07:23, 22 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Do you suffer from amnesia, incompetence or just an aversion to the truth? It wasn't my change that you originally reverted. Also curious, is your invocation of BRD - not only because you obviously haven't read its first paragraph - esp. the sentence in bold - but because you have still failed to perform the "D" in "BRD" at the article's talk. So your bleating here means nothing. X4n6 (talk) 09:14, 22 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
You misunderstand who does what in BRD. Someone else removed this longstanding bit of content; I reverted, and they apparently were happy to leave it at that. You stepped in a day later to re-remove the content, and I again reverted. At that point you're the B and I'm the R, and it was up to you to initiate the D, if you cared enough. Instead you simply tried to edit-war in your preferred version of the article with the content removed. EEng 19:54, 22 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
While clearly needed, I realize a disquisition on policies and correct practices would fall on deaf ears. Although your concession, that you have reverted two editors w/o talk page discussion, is useful. Beyond that, I'll simply point out that the rest of your response is moot - as I did start the conversation - and you have still failed to respond. So your choices are to either respond and discuss there - or refusing that - I'll do a little BRD of my own. X4n6 (talk) 21:51, 22 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
It's your job to open a thread, make your case for change, and get consensus. What you posted is so vague that apparently no one even knows what you want to do, much less why, which explains why no one's responded including me. In the meantime for some reason you're spending your time here entertaining my glittering salon of talk page stalkers. EEng 22:10, 22 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
My precious!With his Gollum impressions, if nothing else. —David Eppstein (talk) 23:28, 22 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comedy table: party of one? Right this way... X4n6 (talk) 22:19, 22 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
User:X4n6, if there's any more trolling, personal attacks, and would-be witty sarcasm from you on this page, there will be a block coming your way. Bishonen | talk 22:30, 22 February 2017 (UTC).[reply]
And you're asked to restrain your puerile humour too, MjolnirPants. There are ladies present. Bishonen | talk 22:35, 22 February 2017 (UTC).[reply]
Now I'm left wondering if that means, "No promises of restraint," or, "No promises of ladies present." Eggishorn(talk)(contrib) 22:40, 22 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
My wife is a champion of puerile humor, and I resent the implication that she isn't therefore a lady. TimothyJosephWood 22:47, 22 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
You've been on WP how long and you haven't looked up words for "ponderous walls of text"?
No arguments here. Do not mistake my recognition of slang which I'm probably too old to use in real life for an endorsement of the way it's used by those who often do.
No joking though, you should address the crap on the article's talk page, since "take it to talk" generally implies "I'll meet you there." Although I know well and good that you probably don't need told that. TimothyJosephWood 23:09, 22 February 2017 (UTC)
[reply]
Of course. But this guy has a history of trolling on this article, and I'm not inclined to put myself out helping him get his act together. When he explains what he wants and why he wants it, then I'll respond. EEng 23:27, 22 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, but engaging in discussion is kindof an implicit obligation in reverting, and they did post a response on the talk in accordance with instructions give in your last edit summary. TimothyJosephWood 23:38, 22 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Yes he did... eventually. But he phrased it as a requirement for others to explain why his change shouldn't be made, instead of him saying why it should be made, and like I said I'm not in the mood to do him any favors. Anyway, the estimable David Eppstein has cut the Gordian knot, and discussion is underway. I have no doubt it will be a complete waste of time like every other discussion this guy has opened on this article. EEng 23:44, 22 February 2017 (UTC) I think the batteries are about to run out.[reply]
Also when did <html formatting> become standard to imply action, and at some point does <small> actually break or does it just continue rendering text smaller until it's less than a px? TimothyJosephWood 23:50, 22 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I suspect it bottoms out at some point. EEng 01:27, 23 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I've seriously considered the possibility that everything he "writes" is computer-generated. It's like he's paid by the word. I'm also tickled by the "Greetings, Earthlings!" flavor here [163]. Have you visited The Museums? EEng 14:34, 2 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I guess I should stop baiting the army of ipsocks - you can almost see how he cringes at having his own words fed back to him.... but it's not worth risking a 3rr violation. It has cheered me right up, though. Hopefully some admin will close the afd soon and put the article out of its misery. --bonadeacontributionstalk 18:57, 2 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure what you're talking about. This back and forth as we home in on a subset of the subject's publications which concisely reflect his artistic outlook is Wikipedia collaboration at its best. EEng 19:30, 2 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
[FBDB] Come now, EEng, you know that you are a master baiter! --Tryptofish (talk) 22:19, 2 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
That {{fbdb}} sure comes in handy, doesn't it? EEng 22:21, 2 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
If it's in your hand, then yes! By the way, I just noticed that one of your categories, just below, turned into an italic font, and thus: [164]. Clearly, the humor-impaired have you in their sights! --Tryptofish (talk) 22:37, 2 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
So in this case "deletion" means that the categories are still there and in use, but if you click on a category name you go to the parent category and have to click again on the "Redirected from" link to see the actual list of pages in the category? And some editors think that making this sort of "improvement" counts as constructive activity on Wikipedia? Hmm. (By the way, EEng, your "most illegible bachelor" joke on the Ozee AfD made me actually laugh out loud. So thanks for that.) —David Eppstein (talk) 23:13, 2 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I can't believe you fell for the ol' "My ma and pa have been married for 35 years!" bit. I have to thank you for the "illegible bachelor", however; I'll add it to my bag of tricks. EEng 01:46, 3 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
It's happy hour, and I was refreshing my memory for intelligent jokes on your user page. Why? I dunno because most of them travel way beyond the thought processes of my happy hour companions (I drink alone)...BUT I came across the image of the green praying mantis WP:NPP, and paused for a moment of introspective...several seconds, in fact...and here I am. I cannot personally relate to the role of the green praying mantis....BUT...my concern is that I may inadvertently be one. My OCD would never allow forgiveness...so I'm here to consult (what I perceive to be) an expert in math and possibly even economics (which may be a stretch) - all the while not knowing how on earth I came to such a conclusion. I would normally indulge in a little hero worship by consulting Tryptofish, who may not know everything, but does an excellent job making me believe he does. However, your brilliant wit and user name won out in this instance (and probably invoked a sigh of relief from Tryp). Regardless, whatever you share with me - positive or negative - it is understood that your input is limited to that of an observer which affords me the opportunity to contemplate and hopefully make a proper decision so that I don't ever become a green praying mantis. A-CEEI_mechanism. Atsme📞📧 22:23, 3 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I'm pretty sure it's not a delete -- I think the only question is whether it should be merged to the CE article. Paging my go-to guy on applied math, David Eppstein. (BTW, D.E., I suppose you've run into Harry Lewis at some point. He's just decided to retire. <sniff>) EEng 22:37, 3 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Tryptofish does not know everything – just more than EEng does. Harry Lewis? He goes back to when I was a student (circa ancient history). I'm amazed he hadn't retired earlier. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:43, 3 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
How do you know?Atsme📞📧 22:54, 3 March 2017 (UTC)I see it was Tryp who responded. 22:57, 3 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I know who Lewis is, of course (I seem to have first edited his article in 2009), but I can't recall whether we've ever actually met. My strongest connection on the Harvard faculty is to Michael Mitzenmacher (three-time co-author). A larger number of my co-authors are at that other school in Cambridge... —David Eppstein (talk) 00:26, 4 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
What other school is there in Cambridge? EEng 04:55, 4 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Well, one possibility would be Lesley, except that I don't think they have a computer science program... —David Eppstein (talk) 04:59, 4 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
So, this violist is coming home from a gig (that's not the joke). He stops to get some groceries, and as he's standing in the checkout line he realizes, to his horror, that he parked under a streetlight and left his viola on the back seat in plain view! He drops his bags and sprints outside, but it's too late: somebody has already smashed the back window and thrown in three more violas. FourViolas (talk) 03:08, 4 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
That joke works surprisingly well. EEng 03:33, 4 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Bar Keepers Friend? We could have used that in the talk section directly above! --Tryptofish (talk) 23:19, 3 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I was going to say something similar. But hell, that's kids' stuff. Check out WP:Articles_for_deletion/Aaron_Ozee. EEng 23:22, 3 March 2017 (UTC) I appreciate the effort that went into the little Brillo-pad star you've got there.[reply]
All this reminds me of what Phineas Gage said to Dorothy Parker. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:35, 3 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I shudder to ask. EEng 23:48, 3 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
"I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy." --Tryptofish (talk) 23:52, 3 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
That's why he said he did not want to have one. --Tryptofish (talk) 00:14, 4 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I shutter to ask...unhinged...in a storm...in Key West...after visiting the 100 bars...one of which Jimmy Buffet frequented...or was it Hemingway? I'm THERE! What was my question? No, wait, no question - just a comment - enjoying the break afforded me by the famous "bar keepers friend"...although I think maybe that refers to a different bark eeper...ohhhh, did Tryp get a lobobotomy...my head hurts, said Phineas. And now I shall mount my trusty motorcycle, wait - thought I rode up here on a horse - anyway my iPhone has GPS which I'll set to HOME as soon as I can find where I put it...not my horse, my iPhone - hope I trained that sucker to read GPS - not my iPhone, my horse. I'm pretty sure it's here somewhere, and will let you know when/if I arrive home...or if I don't. (I hear spanking next door...but wait, there are two adults - do we have an article on that?) Atsme📞📧 00:09, 4 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I hope that by this time next year I'm not reenacting this for Rescue 911. EEng 00:13, 4 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I hope that Atsme gets home by this time next year. --Tryptofish (talk) 00:23, 4 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thx for all the well wishes. I actually fell off my bike laughing after reading the following very real AfD for which Jytdog awarded EEng a well-deserved barnstar: I find no road trip is complete without a stop at one of the better retail establishments for some steel wool. I find the No. 000 especially... soothing. Great for exfoliating. Now it all makes sense why I received a phone call from Cargill here on island. They are justifiably concerned about EEng's promotional statement considering exfoliation is a big part of their business (aside from road salt). Cargill's sea salt scrub for women who believe the R-complex may dominant their triune brain as they age is a major income producer, and warrants serious concern over the competition they'll now be facing from Brillo as a result of EEng's statement. Atsme📞📧 01:12, 4 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I'm offended...nobody got a rise out of responded to my humor. Guess it's back to hero worshipping for me.23:33, 5 March 2017 (UTC)Atsme📞📧 23:31, 5 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, nice - now you've resorted to torture. I'll be dreaming about a hero (or is it spelled gyro?) for the next 2 months! It's like one of those songs you hear that refuses to vacate your thoughts...perhaps a dose of Pepto Bismol would help clear the mind. You may be thinking, well, Atsme, such torture is not unlike a relentless (talk page stalker) who fills one's TP full of rhetorical bull💩 during Happy Hour...although ...💡💡💡💡... FOUR VOILAS!! (not intending to throw FourViolas off-base because of the close spelling). We don't have heros/gyros on this island, so it may be a worthy business endeavor I am now inspired to pursue. Ok, I will depart quietly and leave this page to the whims of....whatever. I hear an active crowd cheering a guy who is playing a guitar & singing the Bee Gees song, "How Can You Mend A Broken Heart". Atsme📞📧 02:18, 6 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Just one very important mention...
In space, no-one can hear you archive EEng's talk page. But it doesn't load any faster there, either.Thoughts of Julian, and Phineus prior to his becoming shish-kabob.I heard somebody stole her smartphone, and started posting all kinds of steamy stuff on some Harvard dude's talk page.
As a (talk page stalker), I am frigging glad that I don't have to keep up with your TP posts on my cell phone. Atsme📞📧 18:22, 9 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Ritchie333, and how exactly do we gage (no freaking pun intended!!) the level of necessity where EEng is concerned? He's off the charts, affectionally speaking. Ok, so my curiosity led me to the following discovery - a purely mathematical computation demonstrated below (and I'm no math whiz):
Total of EEng's archives, 4 mind you, only 4 TP archives totaling 859 kB beginning with the 1st archive thread dated 13 November 2008, Thursday (8 years, 3 months, 28 days ago), and the last archive thread dated 24 October 2016, Monday (4 months, 16 days ago) which averages out to be 2 archives/YEAR. Now get a load of this...the current TP total is 1626 kB - nearly double the size of all 4 archives. I wonder if he takes the time to tie his shoes, or maybe he wears Sperry Topsiders. Regardless, I'd say the man is growing in popularity, wouldn't you? Gotta love it!! Cheers Atsme📞📧 22:28, 10 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Well clearly EEng is compensating for something with the size of his talk page. Mind you, your user page has you hob-nobbing with the stars on an ego trip; when are you going to put up the picture of "Sacred Betty Wills and The Pope in an audience at The Vatican", "Supreme Overlord Betty Wills with Kim Jong Il at the Best North Korean Rally in the World ever (volume 3)" and .... of course .... "Dedicated Wikipedian Betty Wills sharing a 'fun' moment with Jimbo Wales" (although who the "fun" was being had by is left as an exercise for the reader". Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 22:38, 10 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I would upload them tomorrow if I could remember where I put my image archives!! I'm pretty sure my papal days date back to when I was 10 or 11, determined to become a nun. Fortunately, time wounds all heals, and the rumors about the "cloth" finally caught up and frightened a lot of parents. I really was "saved", so my aspirations went from being a patron of the church to aspirations of becoming the first female jockey at Churchill Downs. My main obstacles were the many talented male jockeys. As for Kim...I'll be kind and just say I never really liked "Gangnam Style". Now Jimbo is a different story...if he looked more like Julian Assange, we would not be having this discussion...which reminds me, I have a few words I wouldn't mind sharing with Pamela Anderson. Atsme📞📧 23:09, 10 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I feel you're trying to typecast me lately. There's more to me than crude humor. EEng 23:06, 15 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I think your humour's quite intelligent, actually. Indeed, the comparison here is that this guy appeared to be writing serious computing history drafts, and got stung by admins who didn't have his sense of humour. Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 23:27, 15 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I was just fishing for praise. Worked perfectly. EEng 00:51, 16 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Fishing for prey? Help! Help! --Tryptofish (talk) 20:31, 16 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I like this guy, especially if "How can I vandalize my own userspace?" is meant as a genuine request for assistance rather than a rhetorical question. Shock Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 23:45, 15 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
With regard to your edit summary here [165], I will thank you to attend to your own regardles and leave mine unmolested. EEng 00:51, 16 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Tank you very much. EEng 04:47, 16 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks!
I mistakenly reverted that edit on WP:911; I reverted the message I left and let the user know; apparently I didn't revert my damn edit back.... thanks for catching that :-) ~Oshwah~(talk)(contribs) 05:27, 18 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
HAHA!!!! Dude, it's something that I still manage to do all the freaking time and I have no idea why. I almost always spell it as diffuse instead of defuse... ~Oshwah~(talk)(contribs) 09:49, 18 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Young man (or woman), did you just dude me? EEng 09:56, 18 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
(talk page stalker) Sir, I will accept responsibility for Oshwah's use of the word "dude" which may have resulted from his diffusing an image caption I wrote during happy hour. Please, no more than 50 lashes, and diffuse them equally over both eyes using hypoallergenic glue. 👀 Atsme📞📧 19:08, 18 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I have to admit, your favorite referencing system works pretty well for making footnotes that link to the selected publications section. My previous method for doing that was <ref group=pubs> but then there's no way to list the pubs in a normal-sized font. On the other hand, the inconsistent indentation can be annoying; see Bruce Reed (mathematician) for an example I just tested out. —David Eppstein (talk) 04:47, 22 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The real problem with < ref>< /ref> is you can't control the order of the refs e.g. alpha. One of the most glaring missing features is a way to do that e.g. to order them in the order they're given in {reflist |refs = }}. If that existed I would probably not have bothered with inventing ran/rma.
To keep the customer satisfied I've temporarily widened the "tag" column in {rma} to 50px; take a look at Reed now. Maybe tomorrow I'll either invent {rmaw} = rma wide, or add a column-width option to {rma}. EEng 05:19, 22 March 2017 (UTC) At first I thought you meant pubs. I thought: In what article is there a list of pubs, as footnotes?[reply]
I modified the rma template to take a tw=[tag width] parameter. Now Reed is all lined up again. I set the default back to 20px (but I think maybe it should have em rather than px for the units). —David Eppstein (talk) 05:22, 22 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
You certainly don't let the grass grow under your feet. Thanks again for your work on Lewis; way more than I could have expected! EEng 05:32, 22 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I was about to send you the same message. Don't know what to think, really. I honestly feel bad for the guy, but as recently as this year he's been denigrating other editors (including me) off-wiki, and attacking notability policies. I just don't see how he can be trusted not to repeat the immensely destructive behavior we've seen before. I'm traveling with limited bandwidth so ping me on any further developments. EEng 16:20, 28 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Would it be an idea to at least report the vandalism to the Wikipedia community? No matter how much you dislike someone else, personally I wouldn't wish my worst enemy to have to experience this. Fiskje88 (talk) 10:57, 1 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
It's already noted on his talk page and as the vandal is blocked I don't see what more can be done. FTR I don't dislike RY; if anything I feel sorry for him. EEng 16:12, 1 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Definite article
Do you really think the definite article improves the hook? To me, it just makes it obvious that "the horney dicks" is a nickname given to some group of people. Gatoclass (talk) 11:56, 31 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Hmmm. If I didn't already know, I wouldn't have any idea that the phrase actually refers to a group of people, but since it strikes you that way feel free to change it back. Or maybe "some horney dicks"? I leave the choice in your capable hands. EEng 13:52, 31 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Personally, I think the proper honorific should be applied: "Her Majesty's Horney Dicks". ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPantsTell me all about it. 15:54, 31 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Since both of you are conveniently gathered here in this thread, I have a favor to ask. I need a GA review + DYK review of Harry R. Lewis ASAP. Could you each volunteer for one of those? It means a lot to me. EEng 16:04, 31 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Talk:Harry R. Lewis/GA1 I'll go over it over the course of the day. This is my first review, so I don't know any of the 'traditions' of GA reviews, but I've read the guide pages previously, and will keep one open while I do it. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPantsTell me all about it. 16:23, 31 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Good looking out with that second link; I'd never seen it before. I'll probably post something soon, I've been crawling through it and taking notes and I don't really have much to say (but I'll say it at the review page in a bit). ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPantsTell me all about it. 20:44, 31 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
EEng, I've been considering this for sometime. As to what I've been considering, I mean starting over. I don't like how we've generally left things between us because of how we've butted heads at the MOS:IMAGES guideline. Because of that, it now seems that there is some tension between us when we are involved in the same discussion; I don't think I'm imagining that. Anyway, I see you around often enough and appreciate the work you do. And I'd rather be on good terms with editors, unless they are the few who I have a significant tempestuous history with and I know we will never have a decent working relationship. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 20:06, 13 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
MoS talk: ie, eg and etc
Another editor requested the discussion was made an RfC as we appeared to be going round in circles. There is some point to it, I might add, even if you do not agree. I will thank you for responding, though. --Sb2001 (talk) 00:42, 18 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
"A change of this kind needs to be treated as a proper RfC and closed by a non-involved person" is what another editor said, because you seemed to be trying to close the discussion yourself with your own proposal as the conclusion. This is a nonstarter and a waste of time. Sorry, but I'm grumpy tonight and you really should have realized this by now. EEng 00:47, 18 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, yeah - well go ahead and cake it on...but wait for the best part: the icing on the cake...yep...WAIT FOR IT....and just keep waiting cuz it may never come. It needs a hook that only EEng can provide. Atsme📞📧 19:46, 22 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
A barnstar for you!
The Technical Barnstar
For good sharpshooting comrade. RaRaRasputin (talk) 17:40, 22 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
At first I thought he was kidding EEng, and then I realized the new forum will be held in the newly formed Angry Mob Court presided over by none other than Judge Roy Bean. Their main objective is to lighten the load of ArbCom. Atsme📞📧 20:47, 23 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Their main objective is to lighten the load of ArbCom. To be fair, we're also trying to do something about the huge pitchfork and torch surplus burdening our economy lately. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPantsTell me all about it. 21:56, 24 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
There was a time when there was a demand for pitchforks & torches; Sam Walton couldn't keep enough in stock. Wait...Walton? G'nite John Boy.Atsme📞📧 23:12, 24 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I wonder if it's anywhere near Lakeville Lake? EEng 02:17, 25 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
And what exactly is an "all-sports lake"? Is it somehow related to liquorice allsorts? Never mind, I googled it, but next question: why do we not explain what it is to non-Michiganders? —David Eppstein (talk) 03:31, 25 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Cite errors at Lindbergh
Hola, I have fixed[167][168] two cite errors you introduced[169][170] in January. Months after the fact, it took me about 30 minutes to hunt them down (WikiBlame was no help for this purpose). Please watch for introduction of this type of cite error, especially when making major edits to well-cited articles. Gracias, adios. ―Mandruss☎ 21:31, 24 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I made 170 edits which removed 25% of this badly overdetailed article, and the only thing that went wrong was that I accidentally killed two sources? I think I should get a medal. Nonetheless this vexes me, as I do try to be careful in such things. Thanks for noticing and fixing. EEng 02:12, 25 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, if only people got what they deserved, here and everywhere. Thanks for making 170 edits which removed 25% of that badly overdetailed article, assuming that's what happened (I haven't conducted that review). ―Mandruss☎ 07:00, 25 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, turns out that was just the decrease in raw source size. I checked just now, and in terms of rendered text, the reduction was to 8,200 words from 13,200, a decrease of 40%. And to my astonishment, I got almost no pushback. It was amazingly bloated. EEng 17:36, 26 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
May 2017 (1)
Please do not attack other editors, as you did at User talk:Leprof 7272. Comment on content, not on contributors. Personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Please stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. Don't do this, and don't do this. Needlessly insulting the user isn't helping anyone.Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 22:54, 2 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Well, clearly nothing else is helping. Desperate times call for desperate measures. EEng 02:06, 3 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for being one of Wikipedia's top medical contributors!
please help translate this message into your local language via meta
The 2016 Cure Award
In 2016 you were one of the top ~200 medical editors across any language of Wikipedia. Thank you from Wiki Project Med Foundation for helping bring free, complete, accurate, up-to-date health information to the public. We really appreciate you and the vital work you do! Wiki Project Med Foundation is a user group whose mission is to improve our health content. Consider joining here, there are no associated costs.
Great! Last time I was only in the top 300[171]. Presumably 100 of them died off after following the advice in my medical contributions. EEng 18:40, 3 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
misplaced comment?
I'm pretty sure this was a mistake: [172] So I fixed it here: [173] I don't normally alter other people's talk page comments but this seemed pretty clear-cut. Sorry if I've misinterpreted. Kendall-K1 (talk) 19:02, 4 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
You're absolutely right, thanks! EEng 19:35, 4 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
"Astoundingly atrociously poor block"
May 2017
You have been blocked temporarily from editing for harassing other users. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make useful contributions. If you think there are good reasons why you should be unblocked, you may request an unblock by first reading the guide to appealing blocks, then adding the following text to the bottom of your talk page: {{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}.
Template:Z8 I make no comment on the merits of the point you were making, but it is never, and never will be, acceptable to call another editor a disruptive prick. --John (talk) 13:39, 7 May 2017 (UTC)
[reply]
Astoundingly atrociously poor block - Given the tenor and context of that ANI discussion, one would think that a bit of leeway should be provided for emotional outbursts rather than resorting straight to a punitive block.--WaltCip (talk) 14:26, 7 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I agree WaltCip as I was far more offended by the unwarranted allegation of racism. I thought blocks were to be used to end disruption, yet in this case, it appears the disruption of changing an entire categorization norm and the unwarranted allegation of racism remains a nonissue. I am very disheartened over this block. Atsme📞📧 14:45, 7 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Sometimes some of us act like disruptive pricks, and sometimes we tell others when they do. A block can be a handy reminder to dial it back down. I know I've had a few bad blocks, too. This will pass. Dicklyon (talk) 14:49, 7 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Blocking admin has always been a prick. -Roxy the dog.bark 15:29, 7 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Either myself, or the blocking admin, requires a refresher in English. Probably myself.Jrcla2 was offering a way to see what you're doing as the result of a cultural difference rather than you just being a disruptive prick. Where in this is EEng actually calling Djln Djln a "disruptive prick"? My reading of this is that EEng is telling Djln that Jrcla2 was suggesting an alternative explanation for Djln's inability to understand the issue that did not resort to calling Djln a "disruptive prick". The reason for EEng to bring this up is obviously the fact that Djln telling Jrcla that they are being "borderline racist" is an extremely prick-like thing to do in response to a non-prick-like explanation. On top of the fact that making mass changes to categories is (or could be readily construed as) disruptive. I.e., In other words "you're Irish and so might not understand American Football" does not deserve the response of "that's racist". I can't really think of another way to spell this out. Mr rnddude (talk) 16:00, 7 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Mr. Dude's interpretation is 100% correct (and despite WaltCip's comment, emotionalism played no part in what I posted). Like His Arbship said,
EEng (despite his block log, which is not as bad as it looks at first glance if you understand it)...
It's a shame this is happening on a Sunday, when so many of my glittering array of talk page stalkers are, of course, in church; think of the bon mots we're missing out on! EEng 17:40, 7 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Well, some are editing Wiccapedia, of course. EEng 17:50, 7 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
John, while I've warned EEng about inappropriate jokes in the past, if this diff is really your sole basis for a 48-hour block (I assume it is, given that it's the only diff you've offered in your block notice) it's one of the worst blocks I've ever seen. Please reconsider it—the drama of an arbcom case will waste everybody's time and the result of any such case is an utterly foregone conclusion. ‑ Iridescent 17:56, 7 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. Just to be clear, there was nothing joking in my ANI post at issue. EEng 18:22, 7 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@John, This looks like a good case for you coming to this page and posting something like, "Hey EEng, this was not helpful or constructive." That would be about as effective as a surprise block, minus the extra drama. ~Awilley (talk) 18:37, 7 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Bishonen enters, stage left, to the relief of cowering talk page stalkers.
Unblocked #2
I've asked User:John to lift the block, as I think it was based on a misunderstanding — basically, I agree with Mr rnddude's comment here — and have notified him that in case he isn't online, I'll do it myself. He doesn't seem to be, so here goes: you have been unblocked. Bishonen | talk 17:59, 7 May 2017 (UTC).[reply]
Thanks, Bishonen. Our sovereign lord Jimbo chargeth and commandeth all persons, being assembled, immediately to disperse themselves, and peaceably to depart to their habitations, or to their lawful business, upon the pains contained in the act made in the first year of the Arbitration Committee, for preventing tumults and riotous assemblies. God save Jimbo!EEng 18:11, 7 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I would say post a humorous comment at this sub-thread review of your block, but, I'm afraid of it earning you another block. Personally, I'd just leave an "Overturn block" and sign. Slightly taunting. That's just my sense of humour though. Mr rnddude (talk) 18:16, 7 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Especially important since none of us would have noticed otherwise.[FBDB]EEng 19:13, 7 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I'd of commented sooner, just got around to this (I stalk only when I see a lot of activity in a short amount of time, which usually means some of the best entertainment on Wikipedia). I read the discussion, think all people who over-categorize should be topic-banned, and finally came to your perfectly reasonable assessment of the situation and just the appropriate amount of EEngness EEngitude to catch the editor's attention enough for things to be better absorbed. I'd say "nice work", and we've all learned a bit more about the way all points of view have to be considered by everybody, as far as is possible. Randy Kryn 19:00, 7 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
EEngness: I believe the OED prefers EEngitude. EEng 19:04, 7 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Struck and corrected, per obscure Wikipedia policy. Randy Kryn 19:16, 7 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
My interpretation...
The following is actually how I have always related to the slang use of the word: Prick (slang)#PsychologyThe prick, in some crazy way, is feminine....The prick does not play by the rules: he (she) is a narcisstic [sic] tease who persuades by means of attraction and resistance, not by orderly systemic discourse. The latter interpretation is harmless and how I've always perceived its use. In fact, my fun Wiki❤️ banner confirms my position, so I hope there's no chance of blockage if I use them as [FBDB]. Atsme📞📧 18:15, 7 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Just to be clear, I did not in any way suggest the other editor was a prick (whatever the interpretation of that). I was saying that another editor was trying hard not to do that. EEng 18:22, 7 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
A reminder: gender-neutral obscenities only, please
Duplicated here, for the enlightenment of those assembled, from User talk:John (where the discussion was peremptorily hatted immediately after this post):
Do you get some sort of kick out of causing disruption by using gendered obscenities, EEng? If not, why don't you go and learn from your lucky escape instead of joking about it like it was some sort of badge of pride? Also, do you stand by your comment I highlighted in the diff above? If you do, I agree with The Rambling Man that you may quickly work up to another block. If you don't, you should reflect on what a fool you've made of yourself and the degree of disruption you have caused with your unsolicited intervention at AN/I; two blocks and one unblock, so far. --John (talk) 6:07 pm, Today (UTC−4)
Answers:
do you stand by your comment I highlighted: If you're talking about [175], yes I do.
Do you get some sort of kick out of causing disruption by using gendered obscenities I take no more delight in obscenities than in any other words chosen to do their job. But I'm fascinated by this idea of gendered obscenities. I notice you didn't object to my saying, earlier in the same thread, of "Oh for fuck sake"; is that OK because you see fuck as ungendered? If so, I think that's very narrow of you: what if it's a gay male fuck? Or a lesbian fuck (if there is such a thing, I guess)? I think you need to reflect on your heterosexist biases.
disruption... two blocks and one unblock: Well let's see... one of the blocks was the one you imposed; the unblock was an Arbcom member reversing the block after giving you time to do it yourself; and the other block was someone who got understandably pissed off at you for imposing the block which the Arbcom member reversed after giving you time to do it yourself. So really, I think the disruption's all on you.
reflect on what a fool you've made of yourself: Speaking of reflection, look in the mirror.
unsolicited intervention at AN/I: Is there solicited intervention at ANI? Can I get on a list???
your lucky escape: If Trump ever needs a new press secretary, you'd be a great candidate.
badge of pride: If there's any pride, it's at being part of a community robust enough to self-correct so promptly and decisively.
Alas, I am late, as usual, to the block party. (But no, I wasn't in church.) So, if I follow the situation correctly, it is OK to say "fuck" or "cunt" (the latter having been an entire ArbCom case a few years back), but no good to say "prick". I'm not sure that I can figure out my own thoughts on this, but I am simultaneously in agreement that it's good to be "part of a community robust enough to self-correct so promptly and decisively", and yet also wishing for more WP:CIVIL. Facepalm Anyway, I'm glad about the self-correction, and sorry that it was needed in the first place. --Tryptofish (talk) 00:30, 8 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
You and your fucking johnny-come-lately platitudes.[FBDB]EEng 00:39, 8 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Show some respect. That would be Dr. fucking johnny-come-lately to you! --Tryptofish (talk) 00:44, 8 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
You didn't say [FBDB] so don't be surprised if some prick comes by and blocks you. EEng 00:54, 8 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I wouldn't even be surprised if some block pricked me. Is that the same thing as a cock-block? --Tryptofish (talk) 01:02, 8 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
You scintillate tonight. EEng 01:06, 8 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. As long as I don't glow in the dark. --Tryptofish (talk) 01:09, 8 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
May 2017 (3)
You have been astoundingly atrociously cockblocked for pussy-grabbing other users. Once the cockblock has expired, you are welcome to make welcome advances. If you think there are good reasons why you should be uncockblocked, you may request an uncockblock by first reading the guide to unappealing cockblocks, then adding the following text to the bottom of your talk page: {{fbdb|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}.
PS: Check out the hatnote at the top of Cockblock. It's museum-worthy! --Tryptofish (talk) 9:21 pm, Today (UTC−4)
Honestly, I think that the behaviour of a few admins involved here was completely unacceptable (and to think we nearly had a WP:WHEEL situation too). I just read the hatnote, however, and it made me laugh. Anyway, there we have it - another block for your hall of fame, eh EEng? [FBDB]Patient Zerotalk 13:14, 8 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Guerre des roues
Admins wheeling
An admin is threatening another admin with a block! [176]
Diagram showing interrelationship of noticeboard discussions, userpage discussion, relevant block logs, and so on
Pricks and ruffled feathers
How To Avoid Pricks
When you land in a place that is prickly at best,
And feathers get ruffled – you've disturbed someone's nest;
Be cautious when offering friendly advice,
Or you'll suddenly find your two orbs in a vise.
Lessons are learned, but to do so takes practice,
To avoid getting pricked when you land on a cactus.
Could be worse: your prick could land on the cactus, I guess. Did you write that yourself? It's really good. EEng 02:25, 8 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, thank you. I also shot the scene with the parakeets, which took place about 50 ft. from my window...and heard the sounds that accompany the ruffled feathers as the birds played their game of thorns. Atsme📞📧 04:54, 8 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oops, yes, I realized it was your pic and meant to compliment you on it. EEng 05:29, 8 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, my - I didn't mean to come across as 🎣 for a compliment but thank you! I was actually eluding to the sounds of squawking Caribbean parakeets with their feathers ruffled which can be quite loud and boisterous...not unlike whistle britches' recent outburst. [177]Atsme📞📧 16:51, 8 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I just want to point out how easy it is, all things considered, to misread this last comment. "Oops, yes, I realized it was your prick and meant to compliment you on it." ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPantsTell me all about it. 15:29, 8 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Well as we've seen, we get some of the best pricks Wikipedia has to offer dropping in here from time to time. EEng 17:59, 8 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
As well as some masterful baiting of some deserving admins, by Wikipedia's many master baiters. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:29, 8 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Close enough for government work. Hardban him.--WaltCip (talk) 16:42, 8 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Of course. OK now, party's over. Back to editing! `EEng 16:59, 8 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
And back to archiving your talk page – much appreciated! --Tryptofish (talk) 21:29, 8 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
No, EEng's talk page has passed beyond "annoyingly large" and moved into "awesomely large" territory. The time for archiving has long since passed. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPantsTell me all about it. 21:35, 8 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
See that? Start a talk section about pricks, and the discussion goes quickly to size. But no, it's actually "awesomely annoying". --Tryptofish (talk) 21:39, 8 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Dickwins Law? Atsme📞📧 01:51, 9 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
For anyone out there who does not believe temptation is placed in our paths to test us, please consider that there is, right now – today of all days – an ANI thread centered on this user. Talk about potential for gendered obscenities! EEng 02:01, 9 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
A rogue-like mod on a roguelike MMORPG
Just came from some admin's TP with some (pithy) support for you and the general situation at a certain MOSsy talk page.
I have loved CS Lewis's children's books all my life. But, even as a kid, I thought Aslan (that's you) came off as a bit of a self-righteous prick a lot of the time, despite (or maybe because of) his unassailably pure intentions. But what they fucking did to him, no joy in that. Chin up, buddy. Primergrey (talk) 08:12, 9 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
How kind of you, Primergrey! I must say, however, you're a brave one to use the word "prick" on this page, given recent history [178]. EEng 12:24, 9 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah. I noticed that after I posted. Your talkpage, like a sexy librarian, reads easier from the bottom up. Primergrey (talk) 12:32, 9 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Er, um, yes of course. Anyway, you are now a valued patron of the Museums. Oh, and connoisseurs of administrative highhandedness will take delight in [179]. EEng 12:43, 9 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Good God! I guess I didn't read up far enough. I stopped after the funny bits and missed all the drama. (I recall once telling you it wasn't your strong suit.) I wish I'd seen it in real time. I would've advised you to claim some sort of strong, recent, interest in all things Canadian. We throw pricks around left and right and no one feels too hard done by. Primergrey (talk) 00:56, 10 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
RHB 100 ANI comment
I spent over 25 minutes writing and rewriting by big comment (half of which is his words) and then you come along and not only better capture everything I was trying to say, but you also get results from Robert. HOW!? d.g. L3X1(distant write) 00:07, 10 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Already added the red link on my TP. Do we have "User" Categories or is there concern that it would overwhelm En WP Categories? Atsme📞📧 22:26, 10 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I'd be happy to be in a category of users dishonored by that! Hey, did you just create another one of those red categories in user space? Somebody block this person! [FBDB] --Tryptofish (talk) 21:06, 10 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
No, I used the [[:Category:blah blah]] syntax, which merely links to a category without placing the present page in the category. I'm telling you this because I know you'd want to be enlightened. EEng 21:52, 10 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, and that was the right thing to do! Alas, poor Atsme was led astray, and went ahead and put a variation of the category, in full, on her user talk page. So I went ahead and turned it blue, and put it in the quarantine parent category. Y'all can thank me later. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:07, 10 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
PS, it's quite a losing battle to try to enlighten me, but thank you for trying anyway. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:09, 10 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
When a whip isn't enough, the valiant knights of the EEng Roundtable will come to the rescue.
I was indeed led astray Tryptofish but I maintain faith in the valiant Knights of the EEng Roundtable to honor their call to duty and correct any threatening edits that will cause irreparable damage to the kingdom...like the fire breathing red link categories that have caused good editors to be consumed by the hellpit kingdom of ANI. This damsel in distress thanks you! Atsme📞📧 22:38, 10 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Quite honorable...as long as we don't have to involuntarily attend another block party. If the latter turns out to be the case, my preferred music would be Staying Alive. Atsme📞📧 21:17, 10 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
When I was younger, my heavy metal band did a cover of that song. I sang it (badly) in C3, which you might recognize as being more in the range of these guys. It was a big hit. A fan gave me a pair of bell bottoms. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPantsTell me all about it. 22:18, 10 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The 🎶 at that link stirred memories of basement clubs with blue lights, huge speakers, yoga pads and rows of big pillows on the floor, sugar cubes and hand-rolled cigarettes. ✌🏻Atsme📞📧 12:46, 11 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Let's hope. He could be a real asset on topic areas in which he has so much experience. EEng 22:19, 10 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I did some digging and it looks unlikely that he's lying about his claims (I will not dismiss the possibility, however). But I stand by my assertion that people who feel the need to convince others of their abilities rarely demonstrate strong abilities. I suspect the reason he's so hot about all the "mistakes" in the articles might not be the objective accuracy of those articles. I'm not even being slightly facetious, by the way. A great deal of experience has taught me never to trust a braggart and I honestly can't recall a single exception. I still think this is a case in which editor retention should be a secondary concern. That being said, I understand your position and don't intend to argue the point past this explanation of my own view. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPantsTell me all about it. 22:25, 10 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I've dug too, and unless the account is an impersonation there's no question he actually is all the things he says he is. I'm trying to cut him some slack for generational differences. An academic expert I have great, great respect for had an almost impossible time understanding our OR and SYNTH policies, and why experts have no special weight per se; a lot of it had to do with not understanding the fundamentally unprecedented nature of online social ecosystems. EEng 22:40, 10 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
After you've had a chance to redirect this editor into something useful; if he proves incapable of contributing I'll tell you an interesting anecdote about my father. If he turns out to be quite helpful in other areas, though... Well, just rub it in my face at my talk page. ;) ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPantsTell me all about it. 22:59, 10 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
It's Sheldon Cooper 50 yrs from now. Atsme📞📧 03:54, 11 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Wow, you achieved some dialog, well done! Although, I'm sure you realize the enormity of the task ahead. Burninthruthesky (talk)
Museums
Given your interest in museums, you might be entertained by the wonderful The Museum of Curiosity! PamD 15:37, 15 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks! It's things like that that make me feel sometimes that I should just move to England. EEng 16:28, 15 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Hmmm...looks like the Ice Queen has already been there. Atsme📞📧 20:16, 15 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
X-day/week "embargo" on articles on breaking-news topics
For those in a hurry, I've taken the liberty of putting the proposal highlights in bold. -- EEng
Have you made your 3-month proposal anywhere? If you haven't started an RFC about it somewhere, then I guess the first thing to do would be to figure out where the RFC ought to be located, and whether similar ideas have already been rejected. Anythingyouwant (talk) 17:35, 17 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Anythingyouwant, I really do think it would be highly salutary, but it would be a seismic shift in policy. If a number of very respected editors got behind it informally, and work out some details (like what counts as being out of the headlines, so to speak) then we could propose it formally. But I'm not holding my breath. EEng 23:38, 17 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
There could simply be a rule that no article at Wikipedia can rely upon any source that is less than three months old, except to update information that is outdated. Anythingyouwant (talk) 01:08, 18 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I don't think we want to forbid an article on a new asteroid or something. Maybe it's things in certain topic areas? What we'd be trying to prevent, I guess I know it when I see it, but it's hard to define. EEng 06:39, 18 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Randomly chiming in here: the topic areas this proposal should affect, in my opinion, is politics and crimes. Too many times do I see hastily made articles all revolving around these areas of interest as soon as the ink dries in the presses. I do not believe crimes, in this context, should extend to terrorist attacks. Some editors may be turned off by the 3-month time period, others by how to go about policing this policy. But I believe you have a truly brilliant idea going on here; hopefully, this is pursued further. I offer you my support!TheGracefulSlick (talk) 07:08, 18 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
It might be helpful to choose a sample set of articles as test cases, or imagine hypothetical articles. I was considering the case of a trial with political implications where the defendant is acquitted – not reporting the acquittal for three months would not be ideal.
The nature, frequency and quantity of news has changed so much in the last decade I wonder whether this is a solution to that problem or a band aid. Or maybe a solution to a problem distinct from this other problem. Whichever it is some solution is necessary. The short-term and long-term effects of editors using breaking news articles to shape perception and even reporting in some cases are significant, not only in terms of disruption but it attracts exactly the wrong kind of editor. James J. Lambden 🇺🇸 (talk) 16:43, 18 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Three months is excessive, but a cool-off period of 3 days on creating articles based on political "breaking news" would be most welcome. That would help "break" the tyranny of the headline-grabbing news cycle. Asteroids are apolitical, so astronomers are safe. — JFGtalk 08:16, 18 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Followed from ANI, but it sounds like a reasonable idea. I have seen so many articles pop up within hours of breaking news only to be abandoned within a week or two. Generally though the initial AFD it is all the historic significance of this or that, we MUST keep it etc etc etc. Then dead. Three days sounds a lot easier to swallow and get people to agree to I think, perhaps even up to five but might be a bit much. BTW Chelyabinsk meteor would disagree with you. Clearly the asteroid was working with Obama to attack the Russians. PackMecEng (talk) 14:03, 18 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Three months, it said. I warmed up my snotty responses for this, then discovered (after waiting for this page to load, and scrolling for hours) that it isn't block related. It is the basis of a good idea though. -Roxy the dog.bark 15:51, 18 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I think of this idea as a temporary "embargo" on creating an article on new topic. The idea is to avoid the huge waste -- in terms of editor time, frequent ANI visits, AfD disputes, sockpuppetry, etc. -- that often comes with editing an articles during the initial period when there's new stuff coming out all the time, arguments about conflicting sources, high emotions, and so on.
My original idea was that something would need to be "out of the headlines" for a stated period before we start an article on it. This way, lots of sources are available, erroneous "breaking news" reports which turn out not to be true are in better perspective. I don't quite see how to define that though. For American topics of national interest, this might mean something like there's been no front-page story on it in the NYT or Washington Post or [insert more here] for X weeks. This would have to be carefully defined if endless arguments are to be avoided.
So here's another idea, weaker but much easier to define. How about if an article on topic X is embargoed until the initial sources are at least time=T old? That doesn't mean the topic's not still in the headlines but at least it will have some maturity and perspective, and notability issues will be much clearer. How about that? If T was even ten days that might help immensely.
Imagine all the trouble that would have been saved if the Comey article was just being started now. And who is served by an instant article on the first day something like that happens? A mess of conflicting claims and quotes from various people, first unbalanced one way, then the other. Our readers could turn on CNN for that. We're an encyclopedia for the ages, not today's news. That's why Wikinews is a separate project.
Here's another example. Sometime in the next 48 hours someone's gonna create an article with a title like "Proposed impeachment of Donald Trump". Now, I have little doubt such an article will be created some day. But what will the edit history and Talk page of such an article look like if it was started today? And how, in these first ten days, would such an article serve our readers any better than reading the news? EEng 16:27, 18 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
One day I am gong to write the essay WP:TRUMPSCANDALAFD, because its basically guaranteed at this point. NOTNEWS has no teeth anymore, and while Wikinews exists, I'm under the impression that it is basically dead. I personally would very strongly support some sort of pause-period that would avoid TRUMPSCANDALAFD, but the fact that many of these articles are snow kept even when they are in horrible shape suggests to me that we aren't likely to get consensus for it. TonyBallioni (talk) 17:08, 18 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I see my impeachment example was ill-chosen, because it's too diffuse a topic. I think the idea makes the most sense for "event" articles like Comey's firing, disappearing airplanes, and so on. Let's keep brainstorming. EEng 17:46, 18 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
To help with the brainstorm, here are some recent examples:
2017 Mexico–United States diplomatic crisis – Hastily created in the heat of testy exchanges between two North American presidents at the end of January, one of them performing a rage quit (oh joy, a red link!). Nothing happened since. Article is dangling, with a feeble attempt to shoehorn some minor thing in February, that not even the Lügenpresse calls a "crisis".
Tim Nolan (Trump campaign official) – Dude was arrested for child trafficking and assorted sex crimes, obviously doesn't meet WP:PERPETRATOR notability standards for criminals, but lo and behold, he once supported Trump so he gets his 15 minutes of fame and the AfD mob is tending towards a strong keep, because reasons. With a three-day cool-down period, I bet this scumb** would have remained in well-deserved obscurity.
In summary, my hunch would be to suggest a 3-day ban on creating new articles based on "breaking news" in the political domain. People could still add such stuff in existing articles, but at least they would get some eyeballs to evaluate due weight, and we might avoid AfD drama, link-spamming of navboxes or See also sections in dozens of marginally related articles, and monstrous cleanup tasks when finally the pile of rambling "he said-she said" quotes has to be sorted and summarized into something vaguely encyclopedic and readable (while being accused of censorship). Another bonus: existing articles on controversial subjects are often restricted to some degree, whereas new articles are a free-for-all until an admin wakes up and slaps an 1RR/DS restriction which nobody understands, and we spend more time explaining the sanctions than editing or even arguing the merits of the edits... Thoughts? Choice of venue? Popcorn? — JFGtalk 23:43, 18 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Collapse complaints from someone who (and I am not making this up) thinks I'm part of a conspiracy to suppress or soft-pedal anti-Trump material. — Preceding unsigned comment added by EEng (talk • contribs) 17:20, 20 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Gee, all of these "recent examples" have to do with, wait for it, wait for it, wait for it... news stories which make Trump look bad! Holy crap what an amazing coincidence! A suspicious person might get the idea that the purpose behind this proposal is NOT to actually address any existing problem on Wikipedia, but rather to prevent the media reports on the Trump presidency from being written about on Wikipedia, for as long as possible. I mean that would explain a lot, but, you know, AGF and all, I'm sure nobody would be that cynical, so this correlation between the proposal and the news-that-makes-Trump-look-bad must be just a coincidence! Volunteer Marek (talk) 21:37, 19 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Hey Marek cut it out with the ABF snark, will you? During campaign season, there were plenty such "breaking news" about Hillary Clinton's alleged misdeeds or disease or whatnot and they damn well shouldn't have gotten their own article either. Shit doesn't care which way the wind blows. — JFGtalk 08:11, 20 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
But that's exactly the point JFG. You weren't running around demanding that we "embargo" news stories when Clinton was in the news, where you? If I'm wrong about that, my apologies. If I'm right than my ABF snark stands.Volunteer Marek (talk) 15:53, 20 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Volunteer Marek: Your "evidence" is circumstantial at best. Nothing is ever as black-and-white as chronic ABF-failers make them out to be. The world just ain't that simple. ABF is nothing more than hyper-cynicism, a tendency to suspect foul play when there is any explanation that could justify the suspicion. The community has done everything possible to prevent this kind of thinking and set the bar higher, as evidenced in the first bullet of the nutshell at WP:AGF. You are not even close to the clear evidence required there. I don't know whether the instigator of this initiative has a rep for Trump POV-pushing (have you shown that?), but I know damn well I don't and I don't think many of the others interested in this do either. Now try to get a grip and stop it, please. No stick ever needed dropping more. ―Mandruss☎ 16:25, 20 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Get a grip is right, Volunteer Marek. It seems impossible that there can be anyone in the project who thinks I'm trying to protect Trump [180]. EEng 17:20, 20 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I do not think that at all and nowhere have I said that. I *do* think that the reason why JFG (and a couple others) are so gung ho on this proposal IS because they're annoyed by all the Trump-looks-bad stories that have come out recently. How else do you explain his ... peculiar, choice of examples? They're all exactly what I say they are - recent Trump-looks-bad news stories. You? I think your intentions are good and noble, but yeah, these guys are trying to use you. Anyway, since this has no chance in hell of succeeding, that's all from me.Volunteer Marek (talk) 21:18, 20 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I don't care what their motives are. Trump looks like an incompetent narcissistic idiot whether an article on something he's done appears right away or three days later. So our only question is whether we're going to squander the substantial resources sucked up during those first three days, or conserve them. (Please note that I'm not saying Trump's an incompetent narcissistic idiot, just that he looks like an incompetent narcissistic idiot.) EEng 21:39, 20 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Volunteer Marek: Your recurring aspersions are disappointing. For the record, I spent countless hours defending the primary season pages of both Democratic and Republican parties against vandals and sneaky bad-faith editors, and I have dozens of witnesses who appreciated my work then. At that time, the most aggressive were Bernie Bros spewing all kinds of nonsense theories against an imagined cabal of paid Hillary shills. So, the examples I choose today are Trumpian because that's what shows up on the radar. Rewind a year to springtime 2016 and I'd be busy whacking a different set of moles. Apologies to EEng for bludgeoning his neatly-collapsed thread, but I won't stand to be disparaged. — JFGtalk 23:01, 20 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
In spite of the fact that we have WP:NOTNEWS, I have long been bothered by the same things, and I think this would be a very good idea. So now, I'm going to rain on the parade. Never gonna happen. There are simply too many other users who will show up at an RfC and say no! no! because they love to do instant news edits, plus all the others who never like anything that would be a change. It will never get consensus. Just won't. But I'll take you up on the popcorn. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:56, 18 May 2017 (UTC)
[reply]
I agree it's a longshot, but let's not give up the ship right off. EEng 00:34, 19 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
So would we define breaking news as "all sources which form the basis of the topic's notability are less than X days old"? (Let's keep the X flexible for now.)EEng 00:34, 19 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
You phrased it best! — JFGtalk 00:53, 19 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Another argument favouring such a cool-off period: in the heat of the news cycle, as mere mortals feverishly scan their TV while editing, reporters who missed the initial scoop come and pickup further clues on Wikipedia, resulting in a fertile breeding ground for citogenesis. Very hard to track down in the brouhaha, although I'm pretty sure it happened. Optimists call it collective intelligence… — JFGtalk 01:07, 19 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
That's a great additional point. EEng 01:40, 19 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Pinging a coupla random wise people for their thoughts. (I'd like to start the discussion small, so this is a random subset that comes to mind -- don't be offended if I left you out.) Iridescent, Bishonen, Drmies, Dweller. EEng 15:55, 19 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I seldom engage in such articles either, but we all see/deal with the fireworks related to them at the noticeboards. EEng 17:13, 19 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
(I will never look at sparrows the same way again, alas!) There are more urgent things that need to be improved with the way Wikipedia operates than putting a time delay on political news articles (see my user page). But I agree that when a Wikipedia article is at the top of Google News, there is enormous pressure encouraging some editors to be amateur opinion journalists here at Wikipedia. Even for longstanding Wikipedia articles, such pressure is often evident, but it gets magnified a hundred fold for new newsy articles. A time delay might make things a bit more boring behind the scenes at Wikipedia, but sometimes boring is good (just ask Elon Musk!). Anythingyouwant (talk) 17:01, 19 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Great minds think alike. Well, let's see what others say. EEng 20:28, 19 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I saw this unfold and wanted to wait a bit to see what other had to say before weighing in. Here's my opinion: Wikipedia is not the news because it does not give a hoot about Homicide #17 of Oklahoma City, the lorry that overturned on the M6, or the three hoodlums who skipped school and are now raking leaves in the park. Wikipedia rights about whatever is notable. When the stabbings happened at Ohio State, I didn't read any other opinion piece from what we call the news service, I read our article on it (granted, it was 18 hours old by the time I got around to it). James Comey's dismissal is definitely notable, and so was Brexit and Deepwater Horizon. Putting a delay in creation that is longer than a reasonable 48 hours does not do an ounce (kg if you're metric) of good. I feel that if anything should be proposed, it should be a 30 day deletion insurance: If an article with a credible hint of notability (think A7) is created and does not qualify for any speedy deletion criteria (e.g. Attack page, advertising, gibberish) and has at least X reliable sources at the bottom, it may not be nominated for deletion for at least a month. Something like that. Remember when United Express (exercised their rights) threw David Dao off the 3411? AE3411 ended up being notable, and Dao was deleted. By trying to enforce NOTNEWS while being oblivious to the world going crazy over the situation, they nominators basically ensured a Keep !outcome and took up a lot of time that could have been spent improving the article. About now is the time to check for SUSTAINED, and to nominate the articles if those editors still desire. And they all went on to SNOW uphold at DelReview as well (quite predictable, and a little bludgeony given the number of proper editors who !voted) Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and notable events are covered here. (I notice Danielle "cash me ousside" Bregoni has a redirect and no article). TLDR: if its notable it stays, and AfD should be forbidden under specific circumstances to prevent time wasting. Thats what I think. d.g. L3X1(distant write) 21:55, 19 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Shaping a proposal
Taking into account both this thread and the parallel thread at ANI, there's at least some hope for some version of something like this getting some serious consideration. Who would like to be pinged when I'm ready to start seriously shaping a proposal (which might be a week+ from now)? Add your ~~~ (three ~s) below, please. Pinging Drmies, Softlavender, Ritchie333, David Eppstein to see if they can be tempted into helping. Others, feel free to ping in others you think can help.EEng 03:12, 20 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Where should this generic proposal be submitted? In closing the ANI thread, NeilN suggested WP:VPP. Thoughts? I'm not familiar with proposing site-wide RfCs. Hopefully it doesn't end up at WP:PERENNIAL. My hunch would be to suggest this in a limited-scope subject area, such as US politics, so the community could ascertain its effectiveness on real-life cases without disturbing the bulk of Wikipedia. Is there a venue for this? WT:WikiProject Politics/American politics perhaps? That place looks strangely inactive. — JFGtalk 02:59, 20 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I guess Village Pump, but let's worry about that after we know what we want to propose. I'd like to do this here, "between friends", before widening the circle. EEng 03:08, 20 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I'll wait until there's a fleshed out proposal before I offer an opinion, but I did want to comment to say VPP is really the only possible venue (short of a specialized RfC page that is cross-posted to WP:CENT, WP:VPP, etc - a CENT posting will also be needed). Anything less public than VPP doesn't have the broad reach necessary to change something as well-grounded in broad community consensus as our base notability guidelines. ~ Rob13Talk 03:23, 20 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Feel free to continue constructive conversation here. For the moment, please let's just skip comments which only say it's a bad idea, will never be adopted, etc. None of that can be known until there's an actual proposal to discuss.
I'm pretty busy for the next couple of weeksmonths, so it may be some time before I can give this the attention it deserves in order to develop a viable proposal. I'm the meantime I'm gratified by the thought being put into the discussion, which will help make whatever we come up with as good as possible.EEng
This 3-day proposal that is starting to take shape may actually make WP:NOTNEWS a legitimate policy again. Has anyone else noticed that the main arguments at AfDs for new political or crime-based articles are usually defended with WP:RUSH? It defeats the very foundation of NOTNEWS because keep voters claim sources will soon arise which, by the way, also conflicts with WP:CRYSTALBALL. With three days, sources that may exist will actually exist.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 02:10, 20 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed, that's another great argument to ensure consistency of purpose: inform readers, be neutral, and dare I say combat rampant tabloïdism. — JFGtalk 02:34, 20 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
This is a perfect illustration of the usefulness of the proposed cool-down period: press writes a story, editor creates article, spams it into visible places, regulars take notice, some open an AfD, others "enrich" the piece by coatracking every possible related subject. Meanwhile the same news story is copied into said related subjects. Several talk page discussions get started in parallel, replete with WP:PA, WP:LAWYERS and WP:ABF, then a week later some poor souls will pick up the crumbs and clean up the mess while dodging calls of censorship or WP:TENDinitis. If such a proposal ever has a chance to pass, the time to act is now. — JFGtalk 02:31, 20 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
If an article is created within 24 hours of it first being reported by a major agency, it will have 24 hours of FULL dropped on it. Howzabout that? d.g. L3X1(distænt write))evidence( 02:50, 20 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
No, that would just freeze it in an arbitrary state. Better to have nothing at all for a period.
Collapsing comments from people who don't read instructions i.e. what it says at top of this very thread: "Please let's just skip comments which only say it's a bad idea, will never be adopted, etc." — Preceding unsigned comment added by EEng (talk • contribs) 03:38, 20 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I'll be opposing this proposal, beit 3 months or 3 days—I want Wikipedia to be up-to-date, and even with all the trouble, an artificial cool-down period seems like a detriment to the project's reputation. I realise the current political climate in the US is a lot, but a pivotal shift in policy is not the way to respond to that. El_C 02:51, 20 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
What part of For the moment, please let's just skip comments which only say it's a bad idea, will never be adopted, etc. None of that can be known until there's an actual proposal to discuss do you not understand? If you think the only question is "3 months or 3 days" they you obviously didn't read the discussion above -- in fact, you didn't even read the bolded bits. EEng 03:01, 20 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I read and I understood it, I just disagree. El_C 03:16, 20 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Uh huh. And For the moment, please let's just skip comments which only say it's a bad idea, will never be adopted, etc.? I guess you just disagree with that too, it seems. EEng 03:21, 20 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
This whole cooling off period is counter-productive to building an encyclopedia. You want people to edit this site and they edit stuff that they are interested. Right now, this stuff with Trump is hot. Will that mean that a few articles get created that shouldn't? Absolutely and there is a tool for that: WP:AFD. However, having a lot of editors focused on a subject that is likely to be of historic importance (e.g. Russian interference in the US election), sure makes it easier for that editor 5 to 10 years down the road to make a WP:FA. Moreover, getting what are very likely historic but current events in as good as shape as possible will only help the reader today. Don't fix what isn't broken My 2 cents.Casprings (talk)
Oh for god's sake, could you at least have read my plea at the top of this thread before commenting? EEng 03:38, 20 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Casprings: If you're motivated by building possibly a WP:FA "5 to 10 years down the road", then surely you can wait 2-3 days to get started. Or to push the "breaking historic news" into the lead of related articles. We can't judge what will be historical while we have our noses rubbed in today's mush. — JFGtalk 08:30, 20 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with TGS about our NOTNEWS policy which may well make Russian Intercepts on Michael Flynn a candidate for prod or even G11 when stacked with WP:BLPCRIME, WP:BREAKING and BLP policy overall. It's very disconcerting to see the frenzy, and it may very well clear a path for the same thing to start happening with the Clinton investigations et al. Lawdy, things are bad enough now trying to clear the WP:NPR backlog. Atsme📞📧 03:32, 20 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
And I'll add, there's real breaking news regarding Anthony Weiner sexting scandals - WaPo, CNN, LA Times, etc. published earlier today that he pleaded guilty, but it has gone unnoticed in WP. [182] I think it demonstrates that proposed waiting period for breaking news shouldn't be an issue, and that the motivation to create "breaking news" stubs may be political which isn't helpful to the project. Atsme📞📧 03:57, 20 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Well, nobody can control which subject attracts the creativity of WP editors… We can't deal with politically-motivated smear jobs by blocking Tendentious Faction 1 on odd days, and Tendentious Faction 2 on even days. With the cool-down proposal, it doesn't matter which way the wind blows: readers and curators alike would get back a precious part of their sanity and life-wiki balance. — JFGtalk 08:20, 20 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Note on historical value of news – Our colleague Casprings made the following argument over at the previous thread:
The key point about breaking news is that we can't judge today whether they will be historically significant. History has a pesky tendency to erase the details and focus on the essentials. So with those example, I bet that the WP:10YT situation would have "Dismissal" as a section of the James Comey article, "Russian interference" renamed either Events leading to Donald Trump's impeachment or Great Russian Hysteria of 2016–2017 (depending how history actually unfolds), and the "disclosure" article merged into a couple sentences of that one. — JFGtalk 08:58, 20 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Well, first there has to be verifiable evidence that a crime has been committed per WP:V, especially when a BLP is the topic. Politically motivated breaking news that cites anonymous sources could damage the credibility of the project if it turns out to be unsupported or fake news for bait & click. Our job is to make sure WP:V and WP:NPOV have been satisfied. Example: the breaking news about Weiner clearly has staying power - the man pleaded guilty so we're not dealing with allegations from anonymous sources. The only question at this point is whether or not he'll serve time and for how long. Politically based allegations disguised as "breaking news" which are obviously published by propagandists using anonymous sources can easily turn out to be an effort to boost ratings and/or increase click revenue. At the very least, if "breaking news" is going to remain in the WP landscape, a waiting period makes sense as does enforcement of our PAGs regarding such information. The main objective should be to preserve the credibility of the project and reduce the potential of unsustainable activity at AfD and ANI. Question - would it help, if it is even possible, to automatically direct articles into draft space that involve allegations of crime or are considered "breaking news", especially that which is politically motivated and includes information that fails V? I know there's a template for breaking news that should be used, but rarely is. Atsme📞📧 15:12, 20 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
2017 United States-Saudi Arabia arms deal should be a paragraph in Saudi Arabia–United States relations. Interestingly, even a supporter of the article in the inevitable AfD debate says: I think this article should've been created in another two weeks. Or a month. But the notability of this arms deal is clearly significant. Deleting this particular article is pointless. And here we hit the crux of our modest proposal: if the arms deal gets more coverage in the next weeks or months, it may be spun off as its own article, but if it remains a one-day news story, then it will have been properly documented in the relevant article from the onset, and a lot of editor time and content duplication will have been saved. — JFGtalk 11:10, 22 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
You'll likely have more luck getting this adopted if you add a list of exceptions. Example: A story that appears above the fold in every major world newspaper. --NeilNtalk to me 03:36, 2 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Let me say in passing that, even though this effort is temporarily dormant (see next ===-section below), people are welcome to add thoughts which may help in fashioning a proposal. Now then... Your suggestion seems to concern mostly the idea (mentioned somewhere above) that a short embargo will help put notability in better perspective, and in particular avoid starting articles on topics which turn out to be flashes in the pan. (Your point, I assume, is that if it's above the fold on most major newspapers, it's almost certainly notable -- and I agree with that.)
But notability isn't the main point of an embargo. The main point is that the reporting of breaking news is often chaotic in the extreme, especially in the early days. The point of the embargo is to give the reporting a bit of time to settle down, so things can be a little bit in perspective, early spurious reports can be weeded out, etc. Take a look at the first version of 2017 Resorts World Manila attack, started 9 hours ago [183]. It reads: On June 1, 2017, Resorts World Manila in the Philippines was the subject of a terrorist attack initially believed to be perpetrated by Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant. Well, that wasn't true. What good does such an article do the reader? In fact, right on the Talk page is the following thread:
Has anyone actually read that this may not be a terror attack [184]?TheGracefulSlick (talk) 21:42, 1 June 2017 (UTC)
It may very well not be a terrorist attack, but so far ISIL has claimed responsibility (whether that be true or not) so they are regarded as the probable perpetrators until something else is proven. Inter&anthro (talk) 22:53, 1 June 2017 (UTC)
Sigh... this is why breaking news stories need a small waiting period to sort the facts. I find it terribly problematic that we cannot even confirm whether this is a coordinated attack by ISIL or a robbery gone wrong.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 23:43, 1 June 2017 (UTC)
What was missing here, but often seen in such situations, is angry edit warring over conflicting narratives by people watching different news feeds and therefore in different states of up-to-dateness. EEng 03:56, 2 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I think you have to choose between putting forth a proposal that shuts down the perceived problem completely and a proposal that helps mitigate the issue and has a chance of being adopted. --NeilNtalk to me 04:03, 2 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Trump orb, whereby a meme about the inauguration picture of a counter-terrorism center got more coverage than the aforementioned center, which doesn't even have an article yet. Even without creating that, the natural insertion point was Riyadh Summit 2017 (a much shorter article than the picture story).
Both of these cases perfectly illustrate the rationale behind the envisioned proposal: encourage editors to place "breaking news" stories into the most relevant existing articles. According to its AfD discussion, Covfefe was speedy deleted and recreated several times, whereas a redirect to Donald Trump on social media#Covfefe would have contained the issue safely and immediately. There's always time to WP:SPINOFF a full article if covfefe expands beyond the initial excitement. — JFGtalk 09:11, 2 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Another example: Talk page for June 2017 London attack[185], and the consequent ANI thread [186]. This is a typical struggle for control of the narrative of a breaking event, with tussles over interpretation of early sources etc. EEng 06:36, 4 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
And now a second ANI thread! [187]EEng 17:51, 4 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
This here is one of the greatest AfD comments I have had the pleasure of reading and perfectly sums up parts of the "breaking news" issue. Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi you are my hero :) TheGracefulSlick (talk) 23:55, 6 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, excellent. EEng 00:17, 7 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Here we go again.[189] Time to act yet? — JFGtalk 22:44, 11 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I'm writing one paper and two magazine articles. It will be quite a while. Sorry. EEng 02:26, 12 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
EEng & JFG instant news is like "instant grits"...tasteless and without substance. I prefer homemade grits that have substance and are seasoned with a bit of salt and real butter. Seriously, we're seeing the same feeding frenzy in WP editors that we're seeing in the hungry fake news journalists pundits who are losing their jobs because they've caused their respective network ratings to plummet. No news is better than fake news. Atsme📞📧 01:40, 12 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Atsme, what journalists/pundits are you talking about? EEng 02:26, 12 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
EEng - most recently the 3 from CNN and not so recently The Ascent of Punditry, pg 19. Having worked with CNN as a field producer back in the day, it strikes a special cord for me to see the deterioration of ethical journalism. Some of the sources used by MSM are less credible than those used by WP, and that's sad. Atsme📞📧 02:43, 12 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The resignations are a sign that standards are being uphelp. While I regret the complete loss in the last 20 years of the formerly iron wall between straight reporting and commentary (in both broadcasting and print) you can't seriously be proposing that CNN offers "fake news". EEng 02:49, 12 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps it is a sign that standards are being upheld but based on my first-hand experiences I'm more inclined to believe it was the result of them getting caught and publicly exposed. But who the hell knows what's true anymore? The repeal of the Smith-Mundt Act (in 2013, I believe) is when journalism started going to hell in a hand basket. When the Director of the FBI calls out the NYTimes for inaccuracies, and undercover cameras capture producers saying the reporting is all about ratings, I can assure you, it's a hard pill to swallow, especially for someone like me who swore the oath of ethical journalism and accuracy in reporting, and did so from an emotionless, matter-of-fact POV for many years before and after retirement. Regardless, I still maintain faith that things will iron out, and it's one of the reasons behind my supporting your proposal for a latency period before publishing "breaking news". We're dealing with a ratings race so it's not surprising that news organizations are trying to be the first to broadcast the scoop and now that the restrictive laws have been repealed, they have all kinds of leeway to say whatever the hell they please with -0- consequences. Atsme📞📧 03:28, 12 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
This is on my mind, but it will be some time before I can get to it. But I will... eventually... and you'll all get pinged at the appropiate moment. EEng 03:29, 2 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the warning. ―Mandruss☎ 03:41, 2 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I think I'll unfriend you. EEng 03:49, 2 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I continue to appreciate the good examples being added to the list above now and then. When the time for the revolution is ripe, they will help in shaping a proposal. Our day will come, comrades!EEng 23:02, 3 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I have advocated in the past for an essay entitled WP:TRUMPSCANDALAFD, but I am hopeful one day that your proposal will make it unnecessary. And I apparently advocated for it on this page, ah, well, its been a while. TonyBallioni (talk) 23:13, 3 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I have a better one...Monica Lewisky blew it, an article describing her internship and why she got fired. EEng will have fun with this - it's kinda like creating DYK hooks. Atsme📞📧 16:16, 22 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The job. She blew the job; i.e. in future perfect the command would be: blow job. Atsme📞📧 23:25, 22 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
As handshakes are being DYK'ed (no pun intended), editors have been emboldened to create this beauty: Trump Speeches on Unite The Right. More tea covfefe, please. — JFGtalk 17:17, 16 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
EEng, you should really know better than to make a "joke" which is nothing but a personal attack, even if it is against someone from the extreme right. Comments like this are not relevant to the article or the dispute and can do nothing but make the situation worse. Fram (talk) 12:54, 31 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment was totally harmless, those twins are nasty. -Roxy the dog.bark 13:03, 31 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Roxy, I'm very disappointed in you. Can you imagine the bullying she suffered during her formative years? EEng 14:26, 31 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
How did my comment make the situation worse? Honestly, it's so distressing to have your sympathy for someone's plight labeled a personal attack. And her extreme right views have nothing to do with it; I think Subcommandante Marcos has an idiot name too (the difference being, of course, that he apparently inflicted it on himself). EEng 14:26, 31 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
EEng, drop it. Mocking people for their name is what one expects from a 7-year old child. If you continue like this, you will be blocked. Fram (talk) 14:43, 31 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, running around on a horse smoking a pipe and calling yourself a "Subcommandante" is what one expects from a 7-year-old child (well, maybe not the smoking). Honestly, haven't you got some vandalism to fight or something? If you continue like this, you will make even more people laugh. EEng 17:01, 31 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Clarification: It's not the horse who smokes the pipe. EEng 17:05, 31 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
How he got into my pajamas I'll never know. ―Mandruss☎ 03:13, 2 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
You may have fooled one gullible admin, and you may fool others as well, but your pretense of innocence is only making you look worse. If you want to insult people, do it offwiki.
Please do not add defamatory content to Wikipedia, especially if it involves living persons. Thank you.
Hi, Fram, and thanks for the laughs [190]. Now please fuck off. You'll be welcome back here when you gain some perspective on the role of an administrator. EEng 09:16, 1 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
This is indeed an interesting page to follow![191] --SmokeyJoe (talk) 01:36, 2 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
BLP violation at WP:ANI
I'm sure that it was unintentional but you recently added a BLP violation to WP:ANI. I have removed it and will post a section at WP:AN which you may be interested in viewing. I have no greater liking for the man than you do but we need to leave aside our feelings on the matter. Take a quick review of Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons. Thanks. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 22:44, 1 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
For those playing along at home, this concerns the following segment of the current ANI thread re the article Pets of Vladimir Putin. The portions redacted by CambridgeBayWeather [192] as "BLP violations" I have underlined:
I do not think Putin would be interested at all, but right now there are a lot of cases in Russia when people are jailed for twits etc. The signals typically come from, um, unstable whistleblowers. I am not currently in Russia, but still...--Ymblanter (talk) 16:02, 31 May 2017 (UTC)
Good thing for Trump we don't jail people for twits here in the US. EEng 17:41, 31 May 2017 (UTC)
Putin is too busy running the White House to be bothered with these editors.Legacypac (talk) 16:39, 31 May 2017 (UTC)
Content note: Article contains the passage: Three dolphins applauded the president for feeding them fish, while the walruses even shook his hand.EEng 17:41, 31 May 2017 (UTC)
I prefer Adorned in white overalls to resemble a bird, Putin did manage to get some cranes to fly. ‑ Iridescent 17:51, 31 May 2017 (UTC)
It's a shame the title of this thread isn't something like BITEy behavior at Pets of Vladimir Putin. EEng 18:05, 31 May 2017 (UTC)
[... Irrelevant intervening posts omitted...]
I voted to keep the article since it is as good as the other similar pages, some of which I was already aware of. Who knew Putin's dog is tracked by Russian GPS? Legacypac (talk) 18:20, 31 May 2017 (UTC)
Wait... Donald Trump is tracked by Russian GPS???EEng 19:40, 31 May 2017 (UTC)
Setting aside the dog crack (which I agree is purely a personal insult, but a harmless one against as public a figure as it is possible to be), in what way was it a BLP violation for Legacypac to suggest that Putin is running the White House? Negative speculation about current political events is a very different thing than a personal attack. Also, CambridgeBayWeather, when you redact others' comments even for good reason you should be careful to do it in a way that doesn't make those editors appear to say something they never said. Your edits make it look like EEng removed someone else's joke, rather than what actually happened, which is that he made a joke and some busybody decided that ANI is too serious a place for jokes. For your future busybody-work, you might find the {{Redacted}} template helpful. But I think the bigger problem here is that too many people want to be the thought police of Wikipedia. This attitude is a big part of what makes Wikipedia as hostile as it can sometimes be. —David Eppstein (talk) 23:34, 1 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The things I miss by not watching television. Or, I suppose, by not deliberately searching the net for dog-butt-related content. —David Eppstein (talk) 06:08, 2 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Given a current effort to BLP ban me going on a ANi, this post on my talk page is pretty unwelcome, especially since no one can see what I said. In about 5 minutes someone is going to point to it as proof I can't be trusted. There are enough RS to build an article on the specific ideas you deleted. Google "Putin's pet" or "Putin's dog" and enjoy. Legacypac (talk) 23:44, 1 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Does Stephen Colbert count as a reliable source because he's pretty well said that Putin is running the white house and the comment by EEng about Russian satellites tracking Donald Trump is nowhere near anything approaching from miles away being a BLP violation. Uh, it's the insinuation that Trump is Putin's dog that is the issue, I'd say that's two steps up from being his cockholster. We're all being tracked by Russian satellites, are we all BLP violations? Mr rnddude (talk) 23:56, 1 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
EEng knows me well enough to know that I consider him a wiki-friend, and that I consider the current US administration and the alt-right to be... otherwise. But having watched the ANI stuff and the two talk sections here, I think that it's possible that no one is entirely in the right. I don't think that the ANI comments were bad enough to have made this much of a stink over (but I do appreciate that CambridgeBayWeather was very courteous, unlike... someone else). Then again, just because an editor may make certain jokes, does not mean that they should make those jokes, and certainly not that they need to make those jokes. I do not go as far as to say that ANI is too serious a place for jokes. I've even made some jokes there myself. But WP:CESSPIT ain't for nothing. It's the Wikipedia place for lost souls, people (real people!) who may be idiots or jerks, but who are nonetheless likely to be upset about something, and being an idiot or a jerk does not mean that they need to be made more upset, or deserve it, or that doing so helps anyone else. EEng, going from ANI section to ANI section to make snarky, albeit clever, comments is likely to make somebody upset. It's not helpful. Now I know that you usually brush off my advice, but I also know that you are very smart (almost as smart as I am), so please think about being a bit more judicious about your ANI comedy routine. --Tryptofish (talk) 00:29, 2 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Acceptability of comments isn't determined by the most sensitive one or two admins looking on. As CBW noted at AN, this material stood for more than 24 hours, during which several admins posted to the thread, unknowable other admins perused it, and finally, an admin closed it – all without acting on these "BLP violations".
I have a question, while we're on the subject: even assuming that Putin is too busy running the White House to be bothered with these editorsis a BLP violation who's the LP who's being besmirched? Is it Putin? Trump? Reince Priebus (who's supposed to be running the White House)? Putin's actual dogs?
EEng 02:32, 2 June 2017 (UTC) P.S. for CambridgeBayWeather: I do appreciate your courteous attitude. And P.S. for Tryptofish: they're not snarky comments, just fun stuff meant to lighten the mood (when they're not actually making a point re the topic of the post, which is most of the time, actually).[reply]
I agree that acceptability of comments is not determined by a few admins, or at least shouldn't be. But I think that you will see that I was not concerned about offending admins. Although a small number of them may, in fact, be lost souls, most are not, and should be expected to be measured in their propensities to be offended. The lost souls about whom I was talking are non-admin users, and I stand by what I said. And I, too, am underwhelmed by the theory that the Putin comment was a BLP violation. As for snark, I accept that you do not intend them to be snarky. But they do read that way sometimes, and perhaps you do not realize that. And, as I said, it's frequently unhelpful to try to lighten the mood when other people are not... in the mood. And as for your effectiveness in lightening the mood, I'd say, based upon the reactions you have gotten here, don't give up your day job. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:39, 2 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I'll try to be more judicious. EEng 07:03, 4 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks very much for that, my friend! --Tryptofish (talk) 00:26, 5 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
All of the above, except that the last is a BLD violation. ―Mandruss☎ 03:25, 2 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Clearly you besmirched the reputation of dogs. They are fine and noble animals whose loyalty can be utterly selfless. Shock Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 03:50, 2 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
If I ref my statement with RS will it be ok? I was not trying to disparage
Putin, he is doing a great job meeting his objectives. Legacypac (talk) 05:05, 2 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I was/am not attempting to get anybody banned or blocked on BLP grounds. Both comments were minor and removing the one by Legacypac was probably too much. The one by EEng seemed to me to imply that one was the others bitch. I have no liking for either of the two politicians concerned but making those comments without some sources leaves Wikipedia open to accusations of partisanship. Disparaging comments about politician A are removed immediately but those on politician B are allowed to stand is seen all the time and I guess it was one time too many. Legacypac, I'm not going to reply on your talk page, unless you want me to, as I think that it would just make things worse. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 10:24, 2 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Partisanship on articles is a problem. Partisanship on talk pages (and ANI is a talk page) is not so problematic, and is definitely not something that should be redacted. —David Eppstein (talk) 14:44, 2 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Look, what BLP says is Editors must take particular care when adding information about living persons to any Wikipedia page. Information. Information. When someone says, "Who knew Putin's dog is tracked by Russian GPS?", a response of "Wait... Donald Trump is tracked by Russian GPS???" is not information. It's not an assertion of fact. It's a joke. No one with common sense would actually think I was actually suggesting that Trump is a dog, much less Putin's dog. What I might have been implying beyond that is left to the reader's intelligence, but it's at best a puckish thought, not any kind of information as covered by BLP. Same goes for Putin is too busy running the White House. Thinking that stuff like this, outside article space (not that either of these would be found in article space) needs to be hunted down and stamped out stems from an absurd misunderstanding of the purpose of BLP. It's a tiny minority of admins who worry about this -- that should tell you something. EEng 23:29, 2 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I agree, strongly. As I see it, it's not a BLP violation if no reasonable person would believe it to be true, and no non-notable (thus not in the public eye) person is besmirched by it. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:02, 3 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Small but critical adjustment to what Tfish has said: The key point here is not that no reasonable person would believe it to be true, but that no reasonable person would interpret it as intended as a statement of fact in the first place. EEng 07:03, 4 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, that is indeed more accurate. --Tryptofish (talk) 00:22, 5 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
You have repeatedly engaged in unreasonable and offensive personal attacks on me, including in terms of how you refer to me, in violation of Wikipedia consensus. Please do not do this in the future and focus only on any problems you have with what I have done or am doing. --Daniel C. Boyer (talk) 00:34, 13 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Does that mean that you admit the IP edits inserting your name in those articles are "what [you] have done or [are] doing"? Further, accusing me of having a "vendetta" against you is impugning my motives, hence it is a personal attack. Beyond My Ken (talk) 02:01, 13 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The placement of this clearly indicates it is not directed to you, which indicates either a serious misunderstanding, or a whole new kind of misconduct. And your question is really nothing I can understand how you could get out of what I wrote, to the extent that one would have to question its sincerely absent an explanation. Obviously this is not the interpretation, but for anyone who is pretending not to understand, the meaning is clearly a general one that could be applied to anyone, that all discussion should focus only on what I did or didn't do, not on ad hominem attacks. Further, when one set of principles is applied to one topic or person and another to everything else, if there is no vendetta, it is only natural to wonder what is the other explanation. I believe that, for example, for nothing that does not involve me is notability regarded as relevant to details of articles, and the relevant guidelines say the opposite. --Daniel C. Boyer (talk) 02:39, 13 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
TLDR (though I believe that, for example, for nothing that does not involve me is notability regarded as relevant to details of articles, and the relevant guidelines say the opposite deserves some kind of prize). Daniel C. Boyer, I admire aspiration, but despise poseurs. And you, sir, are a poseur. [193]EEng 04:38, 13 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
You are engaging in further personal attacks on me in violation of Wikipedia policy. Please refrain from these or I will feel that the best response is to escalate. --Daniel C. Boyer (talk) 15:03, 13 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Who do you think you're fooling? I suggest you head over to the ANI thread and explain yourself, because as things are going you're thiiiiis close to being blocked indefinitely. By the way, when were you a writer, business executive, and Japanese politician? EEng 16:21, 13 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Your response is a little bit weird, as what I wrote doesn't seem to be the sort of thing that could possibly be an attempt to fool anyone, and indeed, I'm not trying to fool anyone. The thing about Harvard Summer School that you, who from evidence here, like Beyond My Ken responding here and your using the same phraseology on multiple occasions, seem to be a sock puppet of Beyond My Ken, is a ridiculous non-issue. Nowhere did I or anyone claim that Harvard Summer School was anything other than Harvard Summer School, so it's extremely difficult to know what you're talking about. It's really an issue of material about me being treated differently than material about anyone else. If material about Chirac is treated one way I, while making no specific argument about how material about me should be treated, would tend to think that material about everyone else should be treated the same way. I also think that these discussions should deal with Wikipedia and what is good for it rather than the personal failings or character defects of any one man. Your link to my varied career doesn't seem to link to anything relevant, and I don't know the relevance to anything, but the answer to your question is, essentially all my life, primarily in the early nineties, and back in the mid-aughts. --Daniel C. Boyer (talk)`
(talk page stalker) Ah right, "same phraseology", eh? Stuff like "totally sham", "shameless self-publicist" and "self-obsessed egomaniac", yes? Shame on them. I'd be interested to see what the response would be to an accusation of sock-puppeteering, if you'd really care to make one at this desperate stage. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:56, 13 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not really sure why you think that these are the phrases in question, or is it that you simply think that the "two" of "them" are self-confessed egomaniacs. What I have not seen is any response to anything I have said, my valid points, outside of insincerity and sarcasm. I would like to. --Daniel C. Boyer (talk) 19:59, 13 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I guess they've managed to bridle their incessant egomania within the bounds of Wikipedia policy, for the past 10 years. But I'd suggest you need to pop over to here, Daniel, where your valid and sincere input is patently awaited, with bated breath. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:12, 13 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
And all these years I thought it was baited breath. One of these days I'll add a section on my TP including my rendition of lyrics to songs, like 'Good for you' by Selena Gomez and me thinking the lyrics say "I'm farting carrots' instead of 'I'm 14 carat"...it really does happen.Atsme📞📧 20:37, 13 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Baited breath would be when a cat eats some cheese then waits for the mouse to smell it. EEng 04:02, 14 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
(talk page stalker)#2 - 😂😂😂 - forgive me, [FBDB], but I haven't gotten "beyond" "like Beyond My Ken responding here and your using the same phraseology on multiple occasions, seem to be a sock puppet of Beyond My Ken" 😂😂😂 - no offense to EEng or Beyond My Ken as I adore & respect you both, but back on point...who is covering the outfield? 😂😂😂. Atsme📞📧 19:28, 13 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
(talk page stalker)#3 - And without any diffs, no one can know exactly what @Daniel C. Boyer: is actually referring to. I've tried looking at his contributions, and I've been unable to figure it out. - Denimadept (talk) 20:09, 13 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The context is WP:ANI#User:Daniel C. Boyer, where it turns out that Boyer and his sockpuppets have been pushing to include his non-notable autobiography here since at least 2004 and he is only now on the verge of being banned from talking about himself so much. —David Eppstein (talk) 20:36, 13 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Daniel C. Boyer, I need to ask you to stay away from here now. You're upsetting the children and animals. EEng 21:00, 13 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
(talk page stalker) and Knight errant If anyone wants a load of Soramimi, you could try this at your peril. I actually enjoy boyth the English and original langauge versions, but this was preety funny, even is some people need to clean out there ears. there are 5 mistakes in this sentence L3X1(distænt write))evidence( 01:31, 14 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Not counting the decision to post it in the first place. EEng 02:14, 14 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
And that was a big mistake. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:06, 13 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Stoned and @ home
I noticed recently you were accused on the MOS TP of hiding behind an "internet persona". If this is true, does that make it an EEngVAR issue? Primergrey (talk) 05:11, 13 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Feel free to write the editors of the OED. EEng 00:38, 14 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
3
Three shall thou count, and the number thou shall counteth, shall be three. Four, shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceedeth to three. Five is right out! Note: Image shows sources used in the WP:GA review for Carol Vorderman
Thanks for bringing that to our attention! And it turns out, just a bit up in that thread, I've been nominated for the Ultra-Cool User Page award! (Admittedly, it's Wikipedia Review...) [195]. EEng 23:41, 19 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I'm surprised to see that Wikipedia Review has arisen from the digital grave. The website had been down or something for years, which is what gave rise to Wikipediocracy. Are those two now in competition with one another? (Coming soon: Wikpediocracy Review and Wikipedia Review Review.) --Tryptofish (talk) 00:13, 20 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I have very occasionally linked to the Wikipediocracy forums a few times on here, and left some comments on its blog, but don't tell anyone or I'll get in deep whale-do. Oh, wait..... Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 10:54, 21 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Your userpage...
All that remains of an editor who tried to navigate the page, but did not survive (or, one fewer dodo editing Wikipedia) --TryptofishDr. Tryptofish explains to veteran navigators the hazards of scrolling EEng's talk page unless looking for the name of an admin. They all nodded, having forgotten why, after all these years, they were scrolling his page. --Atsme
...Is among the least navigable pages I've ever encountered in my decade as a Wikipedia editor. It also happens to be one of the less boring ones. Nice work. :)
Do keep me posted in case Monopwiki ever gets the nod from Hasbro. Kurtis(talk) 02:06, 24 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
It's not meant to be navigated. It's meant to be... survived. [196]EEng 02:23, 24 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Holy crap I've never been to your user page before. Now I've forgotten why I came here. Kendall-K1 (talk) 18:44, 27 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Actually you have been here before [197]. The neuralyzer appears to be working perfectly. EEng 19:00, 27 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Just to be pedantic (this is WP after all) that was your talk page. I did come to your talk page this time, saw this section, read your user page, then promptly forgot why I came here. Wondering now if there should be a "user page of the day" on the front page. Kendall-K1 (talk) 21:14, 27 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I got locked out by the WaPo paywall, but here is a free version of the story. Includes a pajama pic that I wish I could un-see. Shock Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 04:21, 26 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Just do as my friends who work at the Post advise me: open it in incognito mode. TonyBallioni (talk) 04:29, 26 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
It could have been worse: at least he was wearing pajamas. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:08, 26 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed. The many horrible things the Trump era has brought us include disgusting ugly fat old lechers like him. Then of course we've also got The Fatslobp of the Month and The Groper-in-Chief. EEng 00:50, 28 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Some bubble tea for you!
HERE IS A BUBBLE TEA I DONT KNOW WHAT THAT IS BUT DRINK IT AND CALM DOWN YOU ARE WAKING UP THE CHILDREN TimothyJosephWood 18:29, 27 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Care to explain your enigmatic message? EEng 18:35, 27 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
You think so? Screaming down this road will get people attention and urge you off the road. O__O KGirl(Wanna chat?) 19:02, 27 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I saw OH2, and wondered if it was an alternative to H2O. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:04, 27 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I figured that was it. See, the problem is that my fellow editors respect me to the point of veneration, and simply assume that any edit I make is ipso facto correct – see [198]. So if I want someone to check what I've done, I have to raise a ruckus. I hope you checked (assuming you actually understand how all those moving parts in pending changes work, which I'm not sure anyone does). EEng 19:10, 27 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Would it help if I say that I do not venerate you? --Tryptofish (talk) 23:04, 27 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I would probably employ more classic new editor tricks, like... if anything on my watchlist uses the word "truth" in any way shape or form, I'm 100% checking it. TimothyJosephWood 19:13, 27 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
In response to your recent ornithological question at WP:ANI
And the student was enlightened. EEng 11:53, 28 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
EEng asked: "are there any nonavian fowl?" Perhaps, but there is certainly such a thing as foul tweeting. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:35, 28 July 2017 (UTC) aka Gomphosus varius[reply]
Was that the block where I made a fool of myself, or just one of many? Also, are the 'facts' on the reddit thread accurate? Roxy the dog.bark 09:10, 31 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
It is too early in my morning for a witty rejoinder, but thanks. -Roxy the dog.bark 09:27, 31 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Bio profs
Re: Go ahead and snark, but for what it's worth, Pardis (as a practicing geneticist yet) manages to fit a nod to the limitations of twin studies [ghastly section, btw] and common abuses of "heritability" into her intro genetics course, while Wilson couldn't resist gambling the credibility gained through a career of stellar entomology on a bunch of cockamamie just-so stories about hard genetic determinism"sociobiology". So. FourViolas (talk) 23:51, 3 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
When someone's entire contribution history looks like [200] I feel comfortable erring on the side of ascribing promotionalism. If you, personally, want to vouch for this person I won't oppose it. Maybe some sunny day we'll come up with inclusion criteria. EEng 01:44, 4 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
No, I wasn't actually suggesting she passes whatever impossible threshold of academic superstardom would make her more worthy of the shortlist than Wilson, just griping. This is too complicated to implement, but if I were in charge I'd make a points system: three points for a Nobel or Fields, two for a Pulitzer, one for each NYT bestseller, one for being a fellow of the AAAS or field equivalent, one for being the subject of someone else's course, one-half for each published biography, etc., and then include people with a score of 5 or higher. FourViolas (talk) 17:36, 4 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
(talk page stalker)FourViolas, I'm agassed!! Methinks perhaps that criteria may be too encyclopedic for the average encyclopediaphobe. WP would shrink to fewer pages than the # of baseballs (or bananas) that Johnny Bench can hold in one hand. Atsme📞📧 00:23, 5 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
You're agassed? Sorry! I'll try to be more careful about what I eat. --Tryptofish (talk) 00:30, 5 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I spelled it that way for a reason...I was showing sensitivity to EEng's intellectual faculties by appealing to his sense of humor, which I sensed you would help provoke, you lil provocateur you. It's also possible that FV's words, she passes may have triggered it. Atsme📞📧 01:51, 5 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I'm only talking about the criteria for the super-elite shortlist on Harvard_University#Faculty. For general NACADEMIC purposes, I'd be willing to relax the standard to, say, either winning a Nobel Prize or personally developing a technology which ruins ≥10,000 people's lives. EEng, can you do anything about your TPSs' gassed-ly puns? They stink. FourViolas (talk) 02:21, 5 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
FourViolas, can we have a similar point system for soccer players? Or is it only academics that you want to impose actual standards on? —David Eppstein (talk) 04:01, 5 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Not completely serious, but inclusion on that list rather than inclusion in Wikipedia makes more sense of your Nobel-is-only-halfway scale. Do we get to choose who Harvard hires now? I had no idea we had achieved such power! —David Eppstein (talk) 06:27, 5 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
If we can choose, then let's raise the bar on porn stars and hockey players, too. Is there a Hall of Shame Fame we can use as the minimum requirement for pornies? I think hockey is pretty much the same as soccer, or it may be more relaxed. Atsme📞📧 13:01, 5 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Hitting each other with sticks is more relaxed than grass-diving? —David Eppstein (talk) 22:43, 5 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Uh oh...since porn is part of the equation, I'm afraid my answer to the sticks and grass-diving question will only get me in trouble, regardless of how innocent it might be. Atsme📞📧 23:31, 5 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Barbara (WVS), listen... I'm very glad you brought this up. Do you know where these editors are popping up from all of a sudden? I really should reach out to them to explain why I'm slashing and burning their added material, but I've just been too exhausted (I'm taking care of my 7-yo nephew all this week). I don't want to drive new editors away, but that stuff was way over the top. Is there an instructor in charge of them somewhere? EEng 01:33, 5 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know any of the details about this, but if you are concerned that this is a class project where the instructor needs to be contacted, anyone can ask for help with working things out with the student editors and instructor at WP:ENB or WP:ENBI. --Tryptofish (talk) 02:37, 5 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
You mentioned "the proj med editing feed" -- where's that? EEng 02:51, 5 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Jeopardy's HD Monitors
Jeopardy's game board game uses Sony monitors caused it is produced by Sony Pictures Television. I agree with AldezD's edit. ACMEDeputy (talk) 12:09, 7 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
And that advances the reader's understanding of Jeopardy!... how? [201]EEng 14:53, 7 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I'm disappointed at getting no response, especially since I phrased my response in the form of a question. EEng 12:34, 11 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
When shaking hands with Donald Trump, I'd worry about what else might be on his hands. EEng 14:57, 7 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I heard that one in the hand is worth two Bushes. No need for you to worry...he's probably read your user page which in itself is built-in protection against a Trump handshake. Atsme📞📧 15:27, 7 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Today's puzzle
Does anyone know what "Created claim" means? See the following diff: [202] I didn't think WP considered "humans" above notability.<---that's probably going to go over quite a few heads but I adore the guy who said it and it's fun to repeat so let's just say it's an inside joke and focus on the diff..Atsme📞📧 21:39, 11 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Puzzle is right. I've been in that discussion, and I did not understand what Drmies meant when he said that, and I have no idea what you mean by what you are saying here. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:47, 11 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
If I remember aright, on Wikidata certain datums (!) are considered "claims" until they're confirmed in some designated way. As for the other guy, I'm staying out of that except to note that I see my [FBDB] innovation has found uses I never anticipated. EEng 23:56, 11 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
EEng, you saw that?!! I'm impressed! Hey, Tryp - it's Friday night and it's happy hour. For the next 3 or 4 hours, we have a license to not care. I blame my OCD for getting me in that mess and for not letting me get out of it...but I'm more befuddled over this, which I imagine few saw in my post at that TP because they're too frigging busy arguing for their own OR. 🍺!!! Atsme📞📧 00:00, 12 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Then you must know I have access to Daenerys’ trio of dragons. Atsme📞📧 00:20, 12 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Atsme, you really don't need to ping me every time you mention me on a talk page that I'm already watching, OK? --Tryptofish (talk) 00:13, 12 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Bad habit I recently developed when responding to a question/statement in one of the mile long threads I've been subjected to this past week...or has it been a year? Atsme📞📧 00:16, 12 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
EEng, you really don't need to ping me every time you mention me on a talk page that I'm already watching, OK? --Sauron (talk) 00:13, 12 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Tryp...pings are like the low voltage lights that light your way to the exit just before the plane crashes. Atsme📞📧 00:23, 12 August 2017 (UTC)
[reply]
So I read in a fortune cookie! --Tryptofish (talk) 00:26, 12 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
At the risk of sounding like a supremacist...maybe I spelled that wrong...fortune cookies don't solve the hunger you get an hour after eating Chinese food at 2:00am - yes, I did that and at 5 am I was starving - while riding horses down the esplanade of a busy boulevard. Atsme📞📧 00:41, 12 August 2017 (UTC)<---I have Ritchie333 to thank for keeping me up with the time. Atsme📞📧 00:46, 12 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I'd support something along the lines of "require admins to get re-confirmation every 8 (or 10) years" but don't see how that's related to the Gary Renard case. There are multiple people on both sides with very specific opinions, but the consensus in the last AfD to redirect was clear. And appealing it through something other than WP:DRV is clearly incorrect. Power~enwiki (talk) 04:06, 14 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I was only referring to Alex whatshisname. Proposals for admins to have to stand again after a period etc. are perennial, and while I'd support something like that I'm not holding my breath. EEng 04:10, 14 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Unlike the Arthur Rubin and Winhunter threads, there's no reason for anything to happen here. And, yeah, maybe next year there will be a de-sysop proposal. I wouldn't hold my breath either. Power~enwiki (talk) 04:20, 14 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I agree this isn't actionable like the other two, but still he should've put his toe in first instead of diving in. EEng 04:22, 14 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I had a long thing typed out here, but I'll keep it short: agreed with EEng that things should be taken slow for returning admins, but noting that I have been very impressed with Alex's return. He meets my two RfA criteria: have a clue and don't be a dick. Probably should have sat this close out, but my general impression is a good guy and a net positive. Anyway, EEng, feel free to throw in an appropriate image here too lighten the mood. I tried, but was coming up blank. TonyBallioni (talk) 04:49, 14 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
An admin upholds one of the five pillars without throwing his weight around.
Well, here's my favorite for admin-misbehavior situations. EEng 04:56, 14 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Did an admin expire? My condolences to their family. --Tryptofish (talk) 16:32, 14 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Borrowing the image. Atsme📞📧 15:29, 16 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Concerned....
When I saw this, I felt a major earth tremor. I also heard on CNN that one of the satellites that allows us to view your UP from space lost its orbit - but then, it was CNN. Anyway, not sure what it all indicates but I seriously doubt your UP can handle a sure enough response from the chief architect. Atsme📞📧 19:45, 19 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Well, let us wait and see. EEng 20:09, 19 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Your answer reminds me of this:
A man is granted three questions to God;
His first question is `God, how long is a million years?
God replies `To me, it`s about a second.
His second question is `God, how much is a million dollars?
God says, `To me it`s about a penny.
So the clever man asks his third question; God may I have a penny?
Your redundant close of the AN/I complaint about DoRD confused me until what you had done suddenly struck me. Very nice!! One of your better ones. Beyond My Ken (talk) 23:50, 19 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
My redundant close of the AN/I complaint about DoRD confused you until what I had done suddenly struck you? Very nice? One of my better ones? EEng 00:04, 20 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
LOL (literally). Yes, I literally did. Laugh out loud, that is. Beyond My Ken (talk) 16:37, 20 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
You can say that again! EEng 16:41, 20 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Shoot! I saw this just moments after restoring the comment again. I'm now very, very afraid you'll raise this at ANI. EEng 22:42, 20 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, wait. You've opened an ANEW report [203] about how you editwarred to remove another editor's talk-page post? Now I'm really worried. EEng 22:56, 20 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
(talk page stalker)Just curious...where in the museum will this one be going? Atsme📞📧 23:33, 20 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Rarely have I seen editors moving their vowels so openly. --Tryptofish (talk) 00:15, 21 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Maintaining Tryp's movement...online news is competing with EEng for witty hooks. Atsme📞📧 00:42, 21 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The story you link, "VENEZUELAN PROTESTORS PREPARE TO LAUNCH A SHIT BOMB PROTEST", reads in part, "Now protesters have decided to organize what they are deeming the 'shit march.' A flyer circulating on social media reads, 'They have gas; we have excrement'... Parts of the Venezuelan military have already begun to defect and join the protesters."
I thought it said defecate and join the protesters. EEng 01:07, 21 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
My apologies for my crappy sense of humor. --Tryptofish (talk) 15:01, 21 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Apologize all you want...nobody gives a crap.[FBDB]Atsme📞📧 18:55, 21 August 2017 (UTC)
[reply]
A barnstar for you!
The Barnstar of Good Humor
I always love seeing your antagonitic comments on ANI. — nihlus kryik (talk) 05:07, 21 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
That's high praise coming from a nihilist. EEng 05:13, 21 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Because that thread is already long enough
To answer your question: I literally mean "absolute" and I absolutely mean "literal". Re "every": I said "every sentence", and I absolutely, literally mean it. I do, however, reserve the right to be metaphorical in sentence fragments, ungrammatical asides, test edits where I inadvertently click Save instead of Preview, independent clauses preceding or following comma splices, inarticulate mutterings, text-based renderings of primal screams, random strings of ASCII or Unicode characters generated by falling asleep on the keyboard, and so on. I hope that's OK. RivertorchFIREWATER 06:05, 27 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I wonder, though, if you actually will be metaphorical, or just like someone metaphorical. EEng 06:12, 27 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, I like all sorts of people, but I think I prefer literal ones. I'm not sure I even know anyone metaphorical. RivertorchFIREWATER 15:38, 27 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm...
I was pretty sure that it went either/or and neither/nor/or (e.g., Neither your mom, nor her vibrator or her dildo), and that neither/nor/nor was a double negative. Maybe I'm wrong. TimothyJosephWood 19:53, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Are you still mad at me about Dr. Young's Ideal Rectal Dilators? Anyway... These are stayed neither by snow nor rain nor heat nor darkness from accomplishing their appointed course with all speed[204]. EEng 20:01, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
You are indeed a gentleman and a scholar except for the bit about my mom, I guess, but she's sympathetic to your issues. EEng 20:05, 29 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]
ANI flew? Where did it fly to? --Tryptofish (talk) 23:12, 1 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
To the land of Achoo. -Atsme📞📧 23:30, 1 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Which Chu's land is that? ("A barnstar for you because ANI flew to the land of Achoo": nice rhyme!) --Tryptofish (talk) 23:40, 1 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I was concerned about Ritch's cough, so I sent up smoke signals to Dr. Thaddeus Schmidlap. Atsme📞📧 01:49, 2 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Cough medicine for Ritchie333. Delivered by Dr. Thaddeus Schmidlap, maker of miracle elixirs from the land of Achoo, a small country in the Federated States of Chu.
I rush to point out that I did not originate the term ANI flu; it was someone much cleverer than I (maybe Iridescent? Softlavender?). EEng 03:29, 2 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
No, I've never used the term. The first time I personally saw it mentioned was by Opabinia regalis in the recent Arthur Rubin RFAR. Softlavender (talk) 03:38, 2 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I can't remember exactly where I've used it, but I believe I stole it from Iridescent. Opabinia regalis (talk) 05:12, 2 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Me: here was its first appearance on Wikipedia. I also gave Wikipedia "civility police", "Facebook for ugly people" and "Bradspeak". You're welcome. ‑ Iridescent 06:36, 2 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Iridescent you coined the phrase "civility police" and I felt it my duty to provide the visuals. I will not pursue the others for I fear potential retaliation from FB users, and I don't have a clue what "Bradspeak" means. Atsme📞📧 17:36, 2 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Happily, WP:Bradspeak exists to enlighten you. (Despite appearances, it wasn't intended as an insult—it was an observation that NYB was more dedicated than most to avoiding ambiguity, and that his consequent refusal to use words with more than one meaning led to some extremely odd looking phrasing.) I believe I was also the first person to use the phrase "indefinite doesn't mean infinite" on Wikipedia as well, but I can't really take credit for that—before c. 2007 the block interface had separate settings for indefinite ("we haven't decided when to unblock you") and infinite ("fuck off and don't come back") so when blocking someone the situation didn't need to be explained. ‑ Iridescent 17:53, 2 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
In that case, I can happily provide the visuals for "Bradspeak".Atsme📞📧 18:49, 2 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Talk page stalkers! A gadget everyone should install!
You know how you have buttons Save changes and Show preview and Show changes when you edit? This adds Show preview and changes in a single button! It's amazing! Seriously, add this to your common.js e.g. User:SoAndSo/common.js:
What I don't understand is why this wasn't the design from the very first day. It defies reason. EEng 23:37, 2 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, so I'm editing this section in Firefox, and at the bottom is Edit summary, Save changes, Show preview, Show changes, Show preview and changes, Citations and Cancel.
I clicked on Show preview and changes and can see what I just typed above but in order to see a preview of what I'm typing now, my only options are Save changes, Show preview, Show changes, and Cancel. I will click on Show changes. Now I have the Show preview and changes option again. How cool is that? ❤️ Thank you, EEng and Writ Keeper!! Wow! Atsme📞📧 15:30, 4 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I use Firefox (but in Windows, not Mac), and that never happened for me. Was this your first edit after installing the gadget in your JS file? If so, maybe the new code had not yet loaded until your second try. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:42, 4 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, that makes sense, Tryp. I waited a few days, and here goes. I'm seeing the full menu below Edit summary; i.e. Save changes, Show preview, Show changes, Citations, Show preview and changes, Cancel. I'm going to click on Show preview and changes.....Yep - that was it!! Needed to clear cache. That's what excitement will do for you - I got in too big a hurry to use the new feature and instead of doing a cache check, my check bounced. Atsme📞📧 22:33, 4 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Now in Safari browser.
I clicked on Show preview and changes, AWESOME, and now I'm typing this and can see the full menu again, unlike what happened in Firefox. The Show preview and changes remains with each edit. Not sure if it's worth reporting the bug to Writ Keeper although it would save an extra step in Firefox (using a Mac).Atsme📞📧 15:39, 4 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Yup I use that. It's really fun and useful. ♠Dinah♠🎤 16:17, 4 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you, but the lion's share of the credit belongs to the Wikipedia community, which provides the raw material to which I am honored to be allowed to apply such humble talents as I have been lucky enough to be endowed with. EEng 03:17, 2 September 2017 (UTC) I don't know if that last bit was grammatical, but it's late.[reply]
It was grammatical, more like fanatical, from our favorite radical, but it will pass along with the gas that keeps your ass in high gear, n'er failing to be witty and tart...(finish the poem 🤓). Atsme📞📧 04:31, 2 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I certainly enjoyed navigating through that sentence. Sometimes, "taking it slow" is the best approach on a Friday night, which results in agreement and appreciation. Cullen328Let's discuss it 05:22, 2 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
A diff you may appreciate!
[206] -- CURSE YOU WIKIPEDIA! Keira1996 06:44, 3 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
So there was a Honda for sale with advertised Curse Control, looks like Wikipedia needs a resident mage to practice as well. L3X1(distænt write) 14:48, 4 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Putting a curse on WP is coals to Newcastle. Plenty cursed already. EEng 22:20, 4 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
You're a fine one to accuse me of trolling, calling my plan 'dumb', calling me a 'schoolboy' and criticising my spelling. Especially, as I tried to defuse the situation, and provided a rational and plausible explanation for my posts, neither of which is in keeping with the definition of a troll. Plasmic Physics (talk) 20:14, 7 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
You're talking about this [207]? OK, well, if you're not a schoolboy I can certainly substitute language applicable to a grownup fool who wastes others' time wanting help designing an idiot experiment [208]. You do know the difference between diffuse and defuse – I'll hand you that. EEng 20:34, 7 September 2017 (UTC) P.S. Re [209][210][211]: Have you heard of the Streisand effect?[reply]
TOC limit 3 would suppress ====-level headings needed in the very large === sections such as Dates, months and years. But Time of day is a small section, and there's no point in breaking out Time zones separately within it. On this page, as on all MOS pages, every little bit we can do to reduce distraction and navigational complexity helps. EEng 11:31, 8 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I'm surprised at your use of a crude term like hortatory. Polite people say bordello or house of ill repute. EEng 05:57, 10 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
How could I not think of you when i saw this?!Atsme📞📧 09:14, 10 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
BTW, I sent that video (and [212]) to my old Wit & Humor professor, and he thinks the guy's brilliant. I agree. Thanks. EEng 04:31, 18 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
You can lead a hor to tory, but you cannot make her drink. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:38, 10 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
First of all, cannot doesn't scan (it should be can't) but more importantly, the way it goes is: "You can lead a hor to Tory, but you can't make her Conservative." EEng 20:41, 10 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
You know, I've been saying it with "cannot" for years, but a search shows that you are right (don't let it go to your head!). Anyway, you can't tune a fish, at least not me. And Immanuel can't either. --Tryptofish (talk) 00:27, 12 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I may be mistaken about your intent but haughty Tory reminds me of this. Perhaps it's a generational thing? Atsme📞📧 22:52, 11 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I love it. (Damn, why did Commons have to delete that photo of an orangutan I used to have on my user page!) I can see it now: Category:Animals that look like Donald Trump. (Uh-oh, I created a red category, so the category police are going to come after me now.) But maybe that would raise WP:BLA (biographies of living animals) issues, because that really is an awful thing to say about those animals. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:54, 12 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Knight errant having returned from jousting refinery towers comment I disagree with 2 examples on that page. Re: ISGM theft, I would keep the Vehicle part, as sometimes escaping on foot when the 5-0 have surrounded the place is going to be easier that trying to drive off in a bullet riddled van, and good robbers (don't ask won't tell:) tend to use a different vehicle for escaping with the loot then the arrival vehicle. While in that particular case all was quiet and they escaped in the same way whence they did come, I don't find it redundant. Re: the rug in Mary Lee Ware: Some rugs are hung on the wall, esp. if it is going to be ondisplay in a public building such as a library. Excepting those two, I pretty much agree with the entire essay, and think it should be moved to the Wiki-space. Thanks, L3X1(distænt write) 17:06, 13 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
On (so to speak) the rug, if the text said "rug on display" I could see some readers wondering whether that's a horizontal or vertical attitude, but "the rug in the library" I really don't think admits any realistic ambiguity. I'm on the knife edge about the vehicle; you make good points but let me think about it.
I moved the page to user space because someone found the crack about the gay version of the classic pancake breakfast "potentially offensive" [213]. Perhaps this would be a good time for a broader discussion of that. Opinions?EEng 17:21, 13 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Talk page stalkers' opinions solicited on move from user to project space
See post just above
Support I'll boldly claim the status as the first non-EEng to promote this around the wiki, I support moving to this project space as I just cited this in a GA review. The issues with the gay risotto dinner might need to be addressed, but given, we do have a user who is trying to promote that word to mean happy, so EEng might be part of a trend. TonyBallioni (talk) 17:53, 13 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
the first non-EEng – You make it sound like I'm a species or class of organisms, like "the first non-mammal". But seriously, is there really a problem with the gay pancake breakfast? I mean, they could serve Log CabinSyrup, right? EEng 18:01, 13 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Intentionally awkward turn of phrase on that one . I could go either way: you clearly meant it as humour, but there are some who might be offended by it. I could go either way on if it was appropriate for project space. I doubt Chuck was serving log cabin syrup, but who knows? He and the Donald are on good terms these days. TonyBallioni (talk) 18:06, 13 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
could go either way – that would be the bisexual pancake breakfast. EEng 18:12, 13 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Gay pancake breakfasts seem like a pretty mainstream subject these days. If some readers get the vapors from seeing pianos with unclothed piano legs (or whatever the modern equivalent of that is), I don't see why we should have to cater to them. —David Eppstein (talk) 18:31, 13 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I'm totally offended as a trisexual. Atsme📞📧 18:32, 13 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support (talk page watcher) - I wasn't going to say anything about the "gay dinner" quip, but if other users find it, er, astonishing, then maybe best to clean it up before promoting. My issue is that I would prefer if you didn't joke about suicide - you could have said seppuku and everyone would know what you mean (probably). Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 18:46, 13 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Now hold on. Why is ritual suicide a problem, but seppuku OK? How about self-immolation? Would that be OK? If so, why? C'mon, we're adults here (even if we don't always act it). I think I'd like supports or opposes simply on the essay as it stands now. If we keep going the way this is going, we'll end up with just another not-so-enjoyable attempt at amusement (and enlightenment of course, but amusement is the great enabler of enlightenment). EEng 18:58, 13 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Well I don't want to start a thing, I know you and I don't share the same views on saying things for the lulz that some people have issues with; depression and suicide happen to be serious and sensitive issues in my environment. That's all I've got, really. I think your essay makes some very good points. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 19:21, 13 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Move it This pretty much lines up with my rule-of-thumb for determining WP:DUEWEIGHT; if it changes the narrative, it's due. If it doesn't add anything, it's undue. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPantsTell me all about it. 19:04, 13 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I fully agree! That reminds me, I have to go add a blog-sourced sentence to the lede of Gandhi claiming he ate live kittens. FourViolas (talk) 00:08, 14 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Is that what they call it in India, FV? For some reason I thought Gandhi was celibate.Atsme📞📧 01:30, 14 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I totally can't respond after seeing the image EEng just added to depict my date night. The vapors fogged-up my vision. Atsme📞📧 20:30, 13 September 2017 (UTC) And I demand catering.[reply]
Meh. If you do move it, please keep in mind that other editors will change it, and you will probably have to go along with changes. Having the discussion here tilts the survey population to your enablers friends, so the wide world of other editors may not be so amused. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:54, 13 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
E, on one hand, Tryp has a point; on the other, this isn't your first rodeo. Compare page view stats and if you think it will get more exposure in outer space than it would orbiting planet earth, go for it. Atsme📞📧 01:45, 14 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Principled opposition to this abominable sampling technique per Tryptofish; your talk page stalkers, thank God, are not representative of most editors. Seriously, it's a fine essay, but the risotto joke should be about Podesta instead, and I believe it's actually not obvious that authorised firearms officers would be at an M.P.'s low-key meeting with constituents. FourViolas (talk) 00:08, 14 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Facepalm Oh FourViolas, you soph-o-more, the armed officers didn't attend the surgery, they "attended the incident" i.e. were dispatched to the scene of the attack. Listen, there's a freshman I want you to show the ropes to. You up for it? EEng 03:30, 14 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I must have confused them with attending surgeons. I'd be happy to show someone such ropes as I've hoisted. FourViolas (talk) 03:41, 14 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Do what you gotta do That is, keep on keeping on. It is what it is and it ain't over till it's over. InedibleHulk(talk) 00:55, September 14, 2017 (UTC)
Support - I love the fricken essay. I caught myself referring back to it when proofreading my FB posts WP edits last night. Seriously, it needs to be a project page. Atsme📞📧 17:47, 14 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Weak support. Essays in Wikipedia-space have a tendency to become like everything else in Wikipedia-space, bureaucratic and humorless, and keeping this where it is might help stave that off. But this is definitely worthy of being used as Wikipedia essays are used, as a mystifying capital-letter edit-summary shortcut. —David Eppstein (talk) 18:01, 15 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Some pancakes for you
For the insatiable
Hello, EEng! Tryptofish has cooked you some pancakes. Help spread Wiki-Love.... oh, fuck it. Given how you cannot bring yourself to let go of the "gay pancakes" formulation at that assemblage of puzzlement, here's a plate of them (and [FBDB] you know which orifice to put them into). If you want to move the thing out of userspace, I'm trying to do you a favor. If you insist on having it your way, well, I tried. --Tryptofish (talk) 00:00, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Look Tryptofish, seriously, why are you so hung up on this point? No one else seems to care. EEng 04:13, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, come on now, I'm not "hung up", but I could just as well assert that you are, because you so strongly resist any attempt to change it (WP:OWN, perhaps?). But let me give you a serious – and sincere – explanation. This discussion thread seems to be about moving it out of userspace, where the larger community will start looking at it, and there will inevitably be editors who will disagree with you, and a lot more ardently than I am doing. When you say that no one else seems to care, that's just no one else from within the rarefied little world of your talkpage admirers. There's nothing at all wrong with "pancakes", of course. But putting it in terms of a gay pancake breakfast will strike some users as insensitive to gay people, as in what makes gay pancakes distinct from straight ones, and why would gay ones be funnier than straight ones. And it is so unnecessary, since it's only part of a joke. If I left it alone and you moved it out of userspace, sooner or later someone else will start edit warring with you about it. I'm not saying they would be right, but I'm just saying that it will happen. But guess what, my pancake-craving friend? Tryptofish thought of a wonderful solution, wherein you can eat your pancakes and have them too! You're welcome. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:27, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Making the question even more urgent: Why are you wasting the time of so many editors? When are you going to get a clue? EEng 03:24, 14 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the reply, I was away for the weekend and only just received it.
I realise that you have a problem with my behaviour. But this is not the place to discuss that. This is about your behaviour.
I'm interpreting your response as meaning that you see nothing wrong with the edit in question, and will continue to make similar ones unless this is escalated, is that a fair conclusion? Andrewa (talk) 23:25, 17 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Let's escalate!
I'm interpreting your response as meaning you're even more clueless than anyone thought. Do you really so need to humiliate yourself that you just can't resist coming back here?
I was away for the weekend and only just received it. – Thanks for explaining. I was counting the hours until I heard from you.
I realise that you have a problem with my behaviour. But this is not the place to discuss that. – Who the fuck are you to tell me what can be discussed on my talk page?
unless this is escalated – Christ, please escalate. It's been a while since one of you grandfathered admins made a fool of himself like this. Always entertaining.
@Andrewa: Things might have changed since whatever halcyon days you are remembering. I feel I can speak for EEng and myself in saying that we do not want the issue escalated because we have things to do and further pointless banter would be very unproductive. However, I guarantee that escalation would achieve nothing apart from providing light entertainment. The way to avoid people poking fun at you is to stop wasting time. Regarding Wikipedia talk:Talk page guidelines, you have made 97 edits since 14 August 2017—has anything been achieved? Of course you are welcome to waste your time however you like, but WP:TPG is important—1,019 people watch the page, of whom 95 have checked the talk page recently; in all, the talk page has been viewed 2,598 times in the past 30 days. That means the pointless banter is wasting a lot of other people's time. Please find something useful to do. If you really really really want to continue, make an RfC. Johnuniq (talk) 04:10, 18 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I had it in mind that an escalation might be useful as a vehicle for Andrewa learning something, but experience shows that's very unlikely so, yes, it would indeed be a waste of time. [User:EEng#s|E]]Eng 04:24, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
You may be right. I guess there's only one way to find out. Andrewa (talk) 12:04, 18 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed, you are quite right, the bar on personal attacks is lower than it once was, and consensus is clear that your post was quite in order. Perhaps that is one reason we have concerns about contributor retention... but that's a discussion for another time.
So we can regard this complaint as resolved in your favour, and I have indeed learned something. Andrewa (talk) 22:10, 18 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I think you're trying to say the bar is higher, but that's OK (and I don't agree, by the way – we've just stopped trying to police personal interactions the way grade-school teachers patrol the playground). Anyway, this wasn't resolved in anyone's favour, because WP:Wikipedia_is_not_about_winning. But we might say it was resolved in favour of a principle – the principle that Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not about whining. I'm glad you learned something, but I dare not ask what that is. Now please stop wasting my time and go deny the antecedent, or affirm the consequent, or accentuate the positive, or whatever it is you think you're doing, somewhere else. EEng 22:48, 18 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Frikandel
EEng, I think you'll enjoy the spelling errors in the article on Frikandel, some added in this edit. Look particularly at the ingredients. Drmies will also appreciate the additions. – Corinne (talk) 15:59, 14 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Foil?? I can't even figure out what that should really be. —David Eppstein (talk) 17:58, 14 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The shape of the frikadel could have been fallic on purpose.EEng 22:55, 14 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
That's frikin' hilarious! --Tryptofish (talk) 23:16, 14 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Finally, someone came along and fixed this. [216] – Corinne (talk) 16:34, 14 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
And I just learned that "foil" was actually a mis-rendering of the Dutch word for mace (the spice). --Tryptofish (talk) 21:40, 14 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
In retrospect, this came across as unnecessarily personalized. I didn't really mean you in particular, but any editor arguing from a personal-habits perspective. Sorry for the implied tone. — SMcCandlish ☺☏¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼ 05:30, 15 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
That's OK, SM, we love you warts and all. Every project needs its overinformed style maven. It does seem, though, that recently you posts have become much longer; I think they'd be a lot more effective if they didn't touch on every possible sub-sub-consideration. EEng 15:35, 15 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Noted. That habit of mine comes in waves. The more busy I am with something else, the shorter and more interspersed the posts are; when I'm bored and keep coming back to WP all day long, like checking Facebook, I tend to post more and longer. Heh. — SMcCandlish ☺☏¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼ 23:39, 15 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Not sure if that's better or worse than being a Happy Hour poster. 🛁🍸🍹🍺💃🕺Atsme📞📧 18:43, 18 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Did you mean to say [FBDB]? Atsme📞📧 22:21, 18 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Ok yes, I admit it, I did. But I thought someone might notice. Phew! I think I just about got away with that. Martinevans123 (talk) 22:39, 6 October 2017 (UTC) [reply]
I liked the Toto picture. Something to cheer me up while I was being beat up. Best, Beyond My Ken (talk) 03:22, 17 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Glad to hear it. Or as they say in Latin, toto tu. Listen, since you're here can you keep an eye on what I predict will be a most tiresome dispute here [218]? For background enjoyment, skim Talk:Harvard University/Archive 9. EEng 03:30, 17 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Yuck, that looks gruesome, but I'll keep watch. Beyond My Ken (talk) 03:39, 17 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I'll wire the usual fee to your numbered account. EEng 03:45, 17 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, this was me [219]. I didn't think you'd mind since the caption wasn't signed. EEng 05:56, 17 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, I realized later that it was you, which is why I removed my comment about it. I actually don't mind you doing it, I thought it was one of my prosecutors, and I was a bit touchy. Overall, no problem. Beyond My Ken (talk) 01:53, 18 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
We all have our burdens [220][221]. EEng 02:02, 18 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Pete Seeger
Hello EEng. Your recent edit of Pete Seeger with the edit summary ”we don't credit photos like this” also changed the birth place to Patterson, New York, U.S. I changed the birth place to Manhattan, New York, U.S. on 8 August 2017 to agree with the first referenced line of section Family and personal life. Did you inadvertently make a cut & paste mistake or is Patterson correct? If so the text needs to be changed to concur. Cheers. Grahamboat (talk) 05:13, 17 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
No idea how that happened. Fixed. EEng 05:19, 17 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Plimpton 322 NPOV
I have mentioned you on the NPOV noticeboard 9and50swans (talk) 03:58, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Not before I mentioned you! EEng 04:13, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
NPOV Plimpton 322
Enough Notice. I'm putting you on suspension.There are worse suspensions, I suppose.
I mentioned you on the NPOV noticeboard discussion 9and50swans (talk) 04:19, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
WTF? 21 minutes later? EEng 04:25, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Did I mention, I mentioned you on the NPOV noticeboard discussion? Keira1996 04:37, 19 September 2017 (UTC)
[reply]
You've mentioned mentioning that you mentioned me on the NPOV noticeboard discussion. EEng 04:42, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I haven't mentioned you on any NPOV noticeboard discussion. Am I missing out? Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 13:11, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
We must mention EEng at NPOV-N since he's mentioned that others have mentioned mentioning him and we don't want to be left out of the mention tension.Atsme📞📧 13:39, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
It's all part of the mention tension convention. EEng 13:46, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
No, SBHB - you simply have to mention it. Was not that style of mention mentioned to you as we have intentionally mentioned in the mention tension convention while you attempted suspension, unless enforced abstention was your contention? Atsme📞📧 16:04, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
And now EEng will get no pension. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:50, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Henchmen comment As long as he and his never get Tension. BTW, I feel the infobox image needs to be removed. L3X1(distænt write) 03:45, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
What infobox? EEng 03:50, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
[reply]
Which one is more reasonable: A. Someone has a recent grudge from an encounter with installing Windows B. I seem to remember raiding a cult hideout and they had this projected on the wall over their altar. L3X1(distænt write) 18:30, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Just so long as you haven't mentioned me there. EEng 04:33, 24 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The gates at Hugomont
And Lt.-Gen. Holland Smith, 200 years later there is still a British Army
Just so you have some background information. Although it is not relevant to the discussion as it is only an example, I thought you might find it interesting.
It is the gates as a symbol that are significant (not Sous-lieutenant Legros -- although he was one of several the major actors in the drama). Wellington picked the closing of the gates the most crucial act of any small group of Allied soldiers towards securing the Coalition victory. It is the closing of the gates that 200 years later are the subject of the new monument at Waterloo commemorating the Coalition victory. (Closing the gates at Hougoumont 1815, Battle of Waterloo memorial unveiled by Prince Charles).
-- PBS (talk) 12:31, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the background, but I don't get the relevance of the image. EEng 15:05, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
symbolism. The closing of the gates is a similar symbolic moment in the final defeat of Napoleon. -- PBS (talk) 18:40, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
OK, but then couldn't any "action" military tableau be thereby said to be related to Napolean's defeat? EEng 18:49, 20 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Think of what most of Europe (including many in France) thought when Napoleon escaped from Elbe at the start of the Hundred Days, it was something like Brecht said about another dictator "Do not rejoice in his defeat, you men. For though the world has stood up and stopped the bastard ..." Of course there are many turning points in the French Revolutionary and Napoleonic Wars and they are celebrated by the victors, eg the royal Navy has Nelson's Column in Trafalgar Square, and the toast "to the immortal memory"; and the 1812 Overture celebrates the retreat from Moscow in 1812. However Waterloo ended 25 years of near continuous war (there was a brief peace in 1804) and the general (Wellington), who commanded the final military defeat of Napoleon, considered this the closing of the door a defining moment. Like the Second World War there are many events that can be considered turning points, but those that nations select as symbols, like statue on the right or the voice recording of MacArthur "These proceedings are closed." to symbolise the victory (or in the case of the poppy to commemorate the carnage) are few; and the British Army has long since seen the closing of the gates at Hougoumont as such a symbol. The unavailing of the new monument on the 200th anniversary had brought that to a larger audience. -- PBS (talk) 11:28, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I've looked over the discussion and hope your advice got through. I'll keep an eye. Your ran/rma infection seems chronic. EEng 05:04, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Was it necessary?
This was dickish. You won your point. Learn how to win with grace, or you will lilely run afoul of other editors as well. - Jack Sebastian (talk) 17:34, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Responded here [222]. I wish you'd make up your mind, though, whether I'm a dick or a douche. (Is your confusion that they both go into ladyparts?) EEng 18:02, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Dear God, please deliver me from all this. EEng 22:54, 21 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Smell me, buy me, and deliver me. I won't change. What am I?Atsme📞📧 01:44, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I had been afraid to ask, but I see the answer is at your talk. --Tryptofish (talk) 17:52, 26 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Malcolm X—there will be a quiz
Thanks for the thanks. After reading the discussion I could all but smell fill-in-the-blanks test sheets copied by Hectograph (yes, I've been around that long B^) and by some of the comments, so have others—who draw different conclusionsjoke—gee, isn't 1492 sufficient? Neonorange (Phil) 04:07, 24 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Right you are
Don't know whether he's a sock or just a troll, but I'm sorry you are the target. Cheers! Grand'mere Eugene (talk) 00:01, 26 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Better me than anyone else; it doesn't bother me at all. In fact, I kind of like having the block log I have because it draws the crazies like moths to the flame, thus we know quickly who's who. BTW, he seems to want us to think he's this guy [223]. He's probably qualified for a WP:IMPERSONATE block, but I'm not going to initiate that unless he keeps behaving in a way that embarrasses the real person with that name. EEng 01:28, 26 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Wow, impressive sleuthing on your part! — Grand'mere Eugene (talk) 02:13, 26 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I simply googled Carole Chaski Robert Kwasny. It's on the first page of results. I don't think it's him, though. No responsible academic would behave that way; more likely it's someone out to embarrass him and/or embarrass Chaski. EEng 02:17, 26 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
A cupcake for you!
Well, this page is over one million bytes now, so I guess you can have this as a reward. —MRD2014Talk • Edits • Help! 02:24, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
He'd rather have pancakes. (joke) --Tryptofish (talk) 00:13, 28 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Can any of you lot think of a witty caption to the picture on the right? Something about "falling standards", perhaps? Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 15:07, 3 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oh well done, sir, well done. Blackmane (talk) 06:30, 15 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oops. He told me his weight in kilos and I think I used the Convert template the wrong way round to go from pounds to kilos. Happy landings... Robevans123 (talk) 01:26, 4 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Be Bold, they said. It'll be fun, they said. Eman235/talk 04:08, 4 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Standards and falls in the same place! Tryptofish (talk)
A header
The Barnstar of Good Humor
As the barnstar documentation says, for lightening the mood, defusing conflicts, and generally making Wikipedia a better place to be. Including this. -- Euryalus (talk) 06:01, 9 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Since you sent Thanks, I thought I ought read this talk page. My first reaction was "how can one editor be so talented?" Then the answer hit: no effor required—each night you tilt Wikipedia and next morning les noix roll in—as if this were Orange County. User:Neonorange (Phil) 07:39, 14 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Are there many nut trees here in OC? I hadn't noticed. —David Eppstein (talk) 07:47, 14 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
My second post is almost a duplicate, but not quite. A clue is to be found by clicking on the subject line of that second post. — (Phil) 11:36, 14 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Since you sent thanks I thought I ought read your talk page. My first reaction was "how can one editor be so talented?" Then the answer hit: each night you tilt Wikipedia and next morning les noix roll in as if this page were Orange County. Neorange (Phil) 07:58, 14 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Appreciation
I wish to commend you for your great sense of humour, as well as for your exquisite taste for NOT adding a picture of a boomerang in the ANI thread. Dr.K. 03:02, 15 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
You are much too kind. EEng 12:30, 15 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Let's talk about trains, maybe
I noticed you politely declined a robot's invitation to comment on trains, and it got me thinking. Thinking about trains, mostly. Ctrl-Fed the page and noticed a single instance of "trains". Is that enough?
If not, maybe now's the time for everyone to let everyone else know how they really feel about those things. If so, delete away! InedibleHulk(talk) 04:08, October 18, 2017 (UTC)
I actually agree with most of them; I tend to err on the side of more information rather than less when I write articles as (as I'm sure you know) it's much easier to cut later than add (and also a sort of a defense against casual tagging ... I think I put in the names of the pathologists because a) I wasn't sure how often I'd have to refer to the writers when I began that section and I didn't want to keep saying "the pathologists" and b) I've had people tag that sort of thing with {{who}} a few too many times). I was sad to see those bits about the black water go but ... it has been over four years now and I have not found anything about what happened with the lawsuit over it, so I guess all we need to do now is note it and move on.
I did, however, restore the "mechanics of the body removal" because it's a subtle way of debunking one of the so-called "mysteries" of the case intended to suggest paranormal involvement, i.e. people who think themselves clever and ask "If they had to cut her body out, HOW COULD SHE HAVE GOTTEN IN THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE? HUH? HUH?" With that explanation in the article and cited to a reliable source, people can link to our article (as a lot of web forums do) and quote that part and shut that down real quick. (I also read somewhere, but haven't found an RS repeating this, that (rather sensibly when you think about it) the rigor mortis was so advanced they couldn't pull the body back through the hatch without severely damaging it in the process).
(BTW, maybe I should take the time now to apologize for things I said during that long war we had over at DYK two summers ago. So, I'm sorry). Daniel Case (talk) 02:06, 22 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
As the wise man said, Perfection is finally attained not when there is no longer anything to add, but when there is no longer anything to take away. Good writing often springs from the dynamic between a writer who who writes too much and an editor who cuts, chooses, and prunes.
Don't worry about the other, Daniel Case. As I'm sure you know I've been on the receiving end of worse.
Who is the wise man? Or did you mean wise guy? But hey, does that mean that if I eat prunes I'll become a good writer? --Tryptofish (talk) 21:38, 23 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Well, Tryp, your fins could use a little pruning. Atsme📞📧 22:08, 23 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
As long as my intestines don't need prunes. (Yes, I know that was a crappy joke.) --Tryptofish (talk) 22:16, 23 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
If you haven't laughed today…
I have no idea on Earth, Mars, or 2nd star on the right, what this guy likes to do all day: Special:Diff/806597145. Perhaps he is an expert in the application of paint to Wikipedia? Should I revert it as OR? L3X1(distænt write) 02:42, 23 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Gives new meaning to the concept of VANDALISM, I guess. EEng 02:45, 23 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
One of those rare instances of vandalism (or should I say VANDALISM) sufficiently well done to make you almost want to not revert it. —David Eppstein (talk) 04:12, 23 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I've always been tempted to blank the article on 4′33″ and edit war to keep it that way. Someone did something in the spirit but much less disruptive [225]. Volunteer Marek 06:07, 23 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I think you'd only really be justified in blanking it for a short period of time... say, something like slightly over four and a half minutes, perhaps...?! — fortunavelut luna 14:46, 23 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Iridescent It's not clear to me which edit is the vandalism. – Corinne (talk) 13:21, 23 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Surprised that the Spray paint editor's IP doesn't geolocate to Bristol. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:46, 23 October 2017 (UTC) N.B. if viewed after dark. in a partially lit alleyway, it looks like David Bowie.[reply]
@Corinne the whole thing - read it top to bottom, it's a ridiculously elaborate false history. ‑ Iridescent 14:39, 23 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Then we can get to work on Rug Age – see [226]. EEng 22:01, 23 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Iridescent, I have rug burns from ROTFLMAO!! The trigger: "and every type of sign as a unique contribution to civilization's wealth and security, just as each individual human is perfectly independent of others and is endowed with certain unalienable rights: rights held by the individual, not the collective." Piso mojado for sure!! 😂 Atsme📞📧 22:18, 23 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Hello EEng: Thanks for all of your contributions to improve Wikipedia, and have a happy and enjoyable Halloween! – North America1000 16:13, 25 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Send Halloween cheer by adding {{subst:Happy Halloween}} to user talk pages with a friendly message.
...on this spooky Halloween night: I can actually relate to how you've been castigated over what you perceived to be humorous. Sticks and stones may break my femur but your comments are not humerus. Where do we sign up for the It's not humerus museum? See my TP for your first entry, unless you prefer to choose among your many. Atsme📞📧 00:52, 1 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Pssst...sidebar note: AfC is the smoothest road to a happier WP life...cut-off the disruption at the pass...help the newbies get their articles properly prepared and ready for mainspace. It reduces the stress we encounter at AfD and helps improve the quality of articles that are published on WP. Atsme📞📧 02:22, 1 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Don't forget though...
...that FDR made Joseph P. Kennedy Sr. the first chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission, thus putting the fox in charge of the hen house. Kennedy did a good job, but unfortunately, there's no chance that Trump's ideological appointments will turn out to be the kind of ethical straight-shooters that old rum-runner turned out to be. Beyond My Ken (talk) 04:46, 2 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Politically correct, well-mannered thieves definitely have an advantage. We call them "politicians". Atsme📞📧 13:43, 2 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Longest bogus file content I've ever seen
Your user page, User:EEng, has the longest Bogus file options lint error I have ever seen, 34073 characters long. It starts out
[[Lionel de Jersey Harvard|{{center|Lionel Harvard]]}} ]] *''... that eight years after rowing a [[Sinking of the RMS Titanic |''Titanic'']] lifeboat and honoring [[Harry Elkins Widener|her drowned son]] with a [[Harry Elkins Widener Memorial Library|Harvard library]], '''[[Eleanor Elkins Widener|Eleanor Widener]]''' waited on a yacht while [[Alexander Hamilton Rice, Jr.|her new husband]] fought "scantily-clad, ferocious cannibals"?'' *''... that at '''[[History and traditions of Harvard commencements|Harvard commencements]]''', bagpipes herald breakfast, bachelors are welcomed, sheriffs on white steeds preserve order, and [[President of Harvard University|Harvard's president]] occupies a "bizarre" chair prone to tipping over?''
and ends
==Museum of Yummy== ::''From the article [[Pontefract cake]] (apparently a kind of candy){{snd}}which includes this image:'' [[File:PontefractCakes.jpg|thumb|left]] The term "cake" has a long history. The word itself is of Viking origin, from the Old Norse word "kaka". {{clear}} ==Museum of Leaden Irony== ::''From the change history for the article [[Linotype machine]]:'' (cur , [[Special:Diff/779828760|prev]]){{spaces|5}}{{small|🔘}}{{spaces|2}}[[Special:Diff/779828760|03:01, May 11, 2017]] [[User:Benh57|Benh57]] ([[User_talk:Benh57]], [[User_talk:Benh57|talk]] , [[Special:Contributions/Benh57|contribs]]) '''m''' . . (28,937 bytes) (-1) . . ''(typo)'' ([[Special:Diff/779828760|undo]]
I can't figure out what's going on ... maybe the linter software is mistaken? — Anomalocaris (talk) 08:02, 3 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
That fixed it. I hope you don't mind, I fixed the remaining lint errors except about 40 obsolete tags (<font> and <center>). If this makes you unhappy, feel free to revert. —Anomalocaris (talk) 09:24, 3 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
(talk page stalker) Lint errors? What? Did you clean-out all of the lint errors including his naval lint? Hopefully you decided to keep the lint just in case you need to start a fire and don't have any kindling on hand (not to be confused with Kindle at the eBookstore). I hear lint collection is a favorite past time for "preppers"...not to be confused with peppers as in Jalepeño. [FBDB] It's Happy Hour, and it's Saturday - need more be said? Atsme📞📧 21:57, 4 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
This is your only warning; if you trim out blatantly excessive text from a long standing rights description page making the text far more digestible and less complex for the average reader, as you did with this edit, I shall have to praise you again.
Seriously, I saw the edit summary and immediately assumed it was vandalism. But, the edit summary was perfect. Nicely done on trimming that text down! --Hammersoft (talk) 13:53, 4 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I counted the number of "blah"s, and you should have had one more. (By the way, I have all of the best "blah"s. When I get done, you'll have so many "blah"s that you'll be getting tired of so much "blah"ing. Everyone else has fake "blah"s.) --Tryptofish (talk) 14:42, 4 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I did have to add a bit of text back in [228]. Feel free to change it however you wish, but this bit is important because many of the people we want having autopatrolled are not familiar with project space, so we rely on other people to let admins know that they should have the flag. TonyBallioni (talk) 15:18, 4 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Earlier this year there was a lot of talk about going around and granting AP to those who qualified, has that all been taken care of? L3X1(distænt write) 16:56, 4 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Your assistance, please?
John Selden - See my bold text for the issue in Attribution below the list of References: This article incorporates text from a publication now in the public domain: Chisholm, Hugh, ed. (1911). "Selden, John". Encyclopædia Britannica (11th ed.). Cambridge University Press. Harv warning: There is no link pointing to this citation. The anchor is named CITEREFChisholm1911. I don't know how to fix it and thought maybe you could based on your experience considering it's a "Harv warning"...either because of the "Harv" part or the "warning" part. 😆 Atsme📞📧 15:26, 7 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I love asking for help on your TP because within a half-hour, an admin answers the call. It's probably the same on my TP as long as it's not me doing the asking. Funny how that works, huh? 🙃 Atsme📞📧 18:58, 7 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, but wherever it comes from it needs enough contrast to the text to be legible. —David Eppstein (talk) 17:29, 8 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I'm too swamped right now to do anything but drop in for my periodic watchlist perusal. Maybe over the weekend. It does look tighter and better! Perhaps you already know this, but judicious use of {{nobr}} and/or {{nbsp}} can do wonders in the way of keeping the linebreaking clean (and are better, in general, than < br>, because nobr/nbsp inserts a linebreak if needed, while < br> forces a linebreak always (and whether one is needed or not can depend on window size). Ping me next week (if that's not too late) if you still want me. In the meantime I suspect my glittering salon of talk page stalkers will pitch in (as DE has already done). EEng 19:59, 7 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
On mobile devices in mobile view, because it has so many columns the software gives up even trying to fit it in, meaning that unless readers actually realize that it continues off the side of the page and can figure out how to scroll sideways, all they'll see is a list of names and dates with no context (see right). Even if they do figure out how to scroll sideways, because none of the columns are fixed it means by the time they get across to the vice-presidents etc they can no longer see which presidency they're attached to. This is an issue with both versions, not just yours, but it's worth bearing in mind; much as it annoys me as IMO the mobile interface is truly shitty, more than 50% of Wikipedia pageviews are now in Mobile view so any accessibility issues potentially affect significant numbers of readers. ‑ Iridescent 20:27, 7 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I personally loathe mobile view. I have an iPad and I always use Desktop view when browsing Wikipedia.--Nevé–selbert 15:02, 8 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Sure, I hate it, but unfortunately 50% of readers use it, particularly since the WMF now forces it on everyone using mobile devices (even large ones like tablets) as the default, so we need to bear in mind how things are going to look in it. ‑ Iridescent 19:23, 8 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Would you please continue? Xx236 (talk) 08:23, 9 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Well, maybe someday. He came up in some research and so I stubbed him, but he doesn't particularly interest me. If I haven't done anything in a month you could try reminding me again. Or you could follow the source link and use the material there. EEng 12:58, 9 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Required notice
EEng after receiving static.
You're edit-warring and approaching 3RR. Softlavender (talk) 09:18, 11 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
We've known each too long for you to give me this kind of static. EEng 09:48, 11 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
This discussion is high voltage. How could anyone not get a charge out of it? Atsme📞📧 20:08, 11 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Sorely missed
Hi EEng, I'm sure that Alfred Schmidt would be having fun if he were alive today. --Mirokado (talk) 20:14, 12 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
We need people like him and Herblock more than ever now. EEng 22:54, 12 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The illustration with the caption "Drawing" (it's quite interesting if you click on it once, then click on "More details" to enlarge it so you can see the details), and the one of Saltholm lend themselves to captions about Wikipedia. – Corinne (talk) 23:16, 12 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
GRuban, look carefully at my edit summary, including the diff link contained in the edit summary. At the bottom of the diff I said, in exasperation, that the next time Zazpot removed my posts I'd simply roll back. I'm not obliged to spend my time surgically undoing his removal of my posts while preserving his subsequent posts. He's in the wrong and needs to get a grip. EEng 22:17, 13 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I wonder how many more editors are going to have to tell you to get a clue before you get a clue. When you're new to a social environment, you need to make it your job to learn what the norms are. You're wasting your own time and everyone else's, and have been doing so for some time now. EEng 03:29, 14 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Even odd couples are even numbers
Turns out I actually agree with Zazpot on something: that "couple" should mean "two". On the other hand, I am also aware that my preference for this specific meaning is not universal. —David Eppstein (talk) 06:33, 14 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I wasn't aware it had another meaning, I've always used it as two. For example: I had a couple of edit conflicts when trying to close that ANI. TonyBallioni (talk) 06:37, 14 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
"A brace" also means two. So does that mean the brace position is a synonym for coupling? I suppose ANI is an appropriate place for getting caught in flagrante... —David Eppstein (talk) 07:23, 15 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I once got caught in Bridgeport overnight, which is even worse. EEng 07:31, 15 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I would like to submit the intro to 'Fresh Prince of Bel Air' as relevant to this conversation. Only in death does duty end (talk) 09:33, 15 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Martin, there are occasions when the brace position devolves into BOHICA. Atsme📞📧 13:52, 15 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
So where I am from we used to give rope for mere possession of a running brand (Mac10s were ok, you can't hurt anyone with them) but duffing is okay if you rustle goats in odd numbers. (!) So you might want to get a GPS tracker for this goat. And that link is on purpose for 2 reasons: a goat is a goat and a ram is a sheep with an attitude; FCA doesn't make a GT model for the 1500.
A few weeks ago I was behind a 3500 with RAM written like a foot tall in the tailgate and a badge that looked about 10 inches wide. Any clue what I could have seen??
1 Ton (3500) Dodge RAM truck, probably with dual rear wheels. Atsme📞📧 05:01, 16 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Well, gotta say...DE has quite the imagination. Maybe an alternate account as User:GYNng is in order. 😂 Atsme📞📧 16:13, 16 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Bighorn sheep (OvariesOvis canadensis) - for comparison purposes.
And if he's blocked for sockpuppetry he can submit an unblock request to UTRS. EEng 17:27, 16 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Haha this notice is the only thing that made me look at that thread, even though it's been popping up on my watchlist for hours. Softlavender (talk) 10:30, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Softlavender: I have edited the user message to more properly indicate the seriousness (or lack thereof) of this incident. Shirt58 (talk) 10:50, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
All hail the God-King and President for Life ... personally I'm going to save my accolades for when this talk page hits 1,000 lv2 sections. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 13:13, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, Jesus - that makes EEng a millennial to the 1,000th power? (It's all about editing power, not size.) Atsme📞📧 23:36, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Can you make a table of contents for your table of contents? Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 14:05, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
You have been deleted from Wikipedia
Per the discussion at ANI, you are hereby deleted from this world for wasting the 1 millionth edit on ANI. If you wish to appeal this deletion please contact the creator of the universe, whoever that may be.—CYBERPOWER(Chat) 17:56, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Deleted is not that bad, it could be worse. You could have received an admonishment. Sir Joseph(talk) 18:28, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I was looking for an image that would illustrate wasting edits, or time, and I came across The Idler (1993). I love the quote from the Ethos section:
On the practice of idling, Tom Hodgkinson writes:
[a] characteristic of the idler's work is that it looks suspiciously like play. This, again, makes the non-idler feel uncomfortable. Victims of the Protestant work ethic would like all work to be unpleasant. They feel that work is a curse, that we must suffer on this earth to earn our place in the next. The idler, on the other hand, sees no reason not to use his brain to organise a life for himself where his play is his work, and so attempt to create his own little paradise in the here and now.[1]
"Curated" is one of those trendy words that makes me want to hit people with wooden rulers. Shock Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 02:58, 23 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I absolutely love Corinne, but it's true. EEng 03:09, 23 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, but what's true? – Corinne (talk) 16:17, 23 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
All those pithy comments about Trump on your user page, including links to YouTube videos, and not a single mention of Peter Serafinowicz's Sassy Trump? For shame! nagualdesign 22:00, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Puppy Trump is worth consideration as well [231]. Okay, two joke posts in one day are sufficient. I'm heading back to my watchtower. — SMcCandlish☏¢ >ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ< 23:46, 21 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I'm sure they've published some stuff about at least one ark, possibly two. — SMcCandlish☏¢ >ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ< 15:55, 12 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Just to be clear, the edit that dare not speak its name removed by Ivanvector was just a link to the latest Sassy Trump video. I'd link to it here again, minus the title, if I hadn't been threatened by Ivan. For anyone who's interested I've posted it on my talk page. Ask for me tomorrow, and you may find me a grave man. nagualdesign 16:05, 12 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Will someone please email me this link (using Email this user)? I'd like to know what this is all about. EEng 16:17, 12 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Hello, EEng. Please check your email; you've got mail! It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.
Not a Sassy Trump video, since I was barred from linking to the latest one, but a musical mashup from October last year (with no mention of any allegations of molestation, paedophilia, necrophilia or any other such BLP violating content, it's just a bit of fun): DONALD TRUMP : The Muppet Show Mashupnagualdesign 22:37, 19 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
A stable genius.
A bit of off-Wiki comic relief from all the huffing and puffing that fills Wikipedia talk pages: There's been 3 more Sassy Trump videos released in the last couple of weeks. I won't link to all 3, but this one had me in stitches: Sassy Trump sings 'The Star-Something Hmm-hmm' I'm surprised more people don't do funny voiceovers. Maybe it's my puerile sense of humour but I find them hilarious. Bad Lip Reading never fails to amuse me either. nagualdesign 22:30, 9 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
For whatever it's worth, I share your sense of humor about that (and everyone knows I'm a stable genius). I liked the "no collusion" one too. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:53, 9 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Happy Holiday Greetings
Want more yams? No thanks, I'm stuffed.
Wishing You A Happy Turkey Day!
A Thanksgiving tale...
Two pilgrims go out hunting. One has two blunderbusses (guns).
The second pilgrim queries, “Why two blunderbusses?”
The first pilgrim responds, “I usually miss on the first shot; with two I can shoot again”.
The second pilgrim pauses, then asks, “Why not just take the second one, and only shoot once?”
I think it's absolutely tasteless for Legobot to have placed this notice directly under a turkey-in-oven photo. EEng 14:14, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
You definitely should take the bot to ANI. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:27, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Gage article
I have to know, why is the Phineas Gage article not at the very least recognized as a GA? In my opinion, it deserves its own tier of "GA-ness" or "FA-ness". Something like Bully! article status. Is there anything I can do to help amend this? I do not possess the heroism (or patience) to navigate the depths of your talk page for a similar discussion so I apologize in advance if I am not the first to ask these questions.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 07:39, 27 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The very small amount of attention that has been given to [the article] can only be explained by the fact that it far transcends any case of recovery from injury of the head that can be found in the records of surgery. It was too monstrous for belief ...
Wow, I just looked through Phineas Gage<badump-tssss> and it does indeed appear to be quite a robust, well covered, well illustrated article. Outstanding (used both as an exclamation and I literally think it stands out in comparison to many other articles). --A Fellow Editor (talk) 13:30, 27 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
(Buttinsky) I totally agree with you TGS and AFE. I can't overemphasize the engaging prose by our one and only EEng, an editor I admire and consider to be extraordinary in so many different ways. I would definitely be among the FA reviewers if PG became a WP:FAC. Atsme📞📧 19:57, 27 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Roxy will need a lot of popcorn for that. I think the reason is that, once one opens the edit window, the page turns gag-inducing. I've given our fine curator a lot of grief over that in the past, but have since lost my appetite for doing so. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:18, 27 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't mean to reopen some bad history here. I just think credit should be given for what, in my opinion, surpasses any article I have read on Wikipedia thus far. Honestly, a review just seems like a formality at this point but I can start one if that is the issue. Good idea or doomed to fail? Thoughts?TheGracefulSlick (talk) 20:28, 27 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not certain whether it's doomed to fail, but it is very likely doomed to elicit drama, because that bad history includes a lot of editors who (unlike me) continue to hold a grudge. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:35, 27 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I've mentioned before that we need this article like a hole in the head. Newyorkbrad (talk) 21:14, 27 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Which reminds me, we should add a section about lobotomy to that page. (Now, watch EEng's head explode!) --Tryptofish (talk) 22:07, 27 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
If that is what it takes NYB! I am going to ask around to find an experienced GA reviewer who would take the case. I still presume this review would just be a formality but I hope I can trust any issues beyond my control -- like with sources I do not own -- will be dealt with professionally by the article's main contributors. Resentment be damned; such a well-researched piece is worth whatever drama a few editors want to stir up.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 03:26, 28 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The eldest Oyster looked at him,
But never a word he said:
The eldest Oyster winked his eye,
And shook his heavy head—
Meaning to say he did not choose
To leave the oyster-bed.
First let me say that, while I can't deny I'm the editor most responsible for what you see in the article, many others helped substantially and even indispensably. And anyone who says they don't enjoy, just a teensy bit, seeing their work recognized is fibbing – but at what cost? Please let's not rush into anything. Someone (not me) nominated for GA in 2013, and guess what? Click to find out. I fear that in any renewed effort (whether GA or FA), what will happen is...
someone will say there should be fewer quotations, because most articles have fewer quotations, and that quotations shouldn't have links, because otherwise someone might think that the links were in the original 19th-century quotation;
someone will say there should be fewer images, because most articles don't have many images;
someone will say the citation system should be changed, because most articles use some other citation system, whether it would do good service here or not;
someone will say et al. should be italicized;
someone else will say et al. should not be italicized;
someone will say the sentences should be broken up into short declaratives, that you shouldn't use dashes, and that you can't start a sentence with However or But, because their seventh-grade teacher Miss Snodgrass told them so;
someone will say the markup is too complicated (see post above in this thread), without considering what the markup does;
someone will say there should be fewer notes, because most articles don't have notes;
someone will say that the article's not balanced because (and I am not making this up) it doesn't repeat various things things said in a children's book.
In short, there will be plenty of people advocating for the principle that an "anodyne consistency of style" is what makes for a quality article. And those are just from memory. I don't know if I feel like going through that again. Then of course, the article's not my property and it's not my decision to make.
Wow, that ANI about the earlier GAN made my head explode! (Certainly wasn't just a formality.) Maybe it would make for a good reply to that survey about ANI posted below. Maybe not. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:44, 28 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe "et" could be italicized and "al." not. Or the other way around. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:46, 28 November 2017 (UTC)
[reply]
No attempt will be made by me to cite analogous nominations, as after ransacking the literature in quest of such, I learn that all, or nearly all, soon came to a fatal result.
I think that out of friendship and consideration for EEng, please don't do a GAN at this time. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:06, 29 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
And so it begins... [232]EEng 20:04, 30 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
EEng - it's Happy Hour, and all I can do to refrain from sharing my candid thoughts. I can relate to what you've had to endure. (pause to retrieve a chilled mug of... use your imagination). I try to steer clear of things I'm not young enough to change...and I can't understand how in the hell that wonderfully composed and exceptionally well-written article doesn't meet the criteria for FA, never mind GA. Having said that, I understand why you don't want to be subjected to the drill, and decided instead to let it be what it is. Sometimes we just have to stop arguing and simply let them be wrong. Atsme📞📧 22:23, 30 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
EEng I'll refrain from this topic for a few weeks. I apologize for causing any grief over what I thought was a bit more straightforward than it turned out to be. I don't know if there is some major politicizing or a grudge match keeping you away from the credit you deserve on the Gage article but I would appreciate if you re-evaluated after a period of time to see if you are up for a GA review.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 23:22, 1 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Must've hit a nerve. Atsme📞📧 21:29, 2 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
It's not as big a deal as maybe it comes across, and you certainly mean well. As mentioned above, may I suggest we start instead with Lionel de Jersey Harvard or Sacred Cod? EEng 15:06, 2 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
In re any recent uptick in interest about the page: [233]. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:27, 2 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, my eyes, my 👀, my !! 🙈 Wish I hadn't read that! The nerve of those people!!! Atsme📞📧 15:29, December 2, 2017
And look how TheGracefulSlick is now harassing one of those poor people! [234]EEng 03:25, 3 December 2017 (UTC) Reminder: There will be a meeting of the white males immediately after next week's Masonic Rites. If your Trilateral Commission duties will prevent you from attending, please let me know.[reply]
"In 2011, a tagged Cuvier's beaked whale dove to 2,992 m, which is the deepest recorded dive by any mammal. The whales' rib cages can fold down so as to reduce air pockets and decrease buoyancy. But it has failed to ever get to the bottom of EEng's Talk page." [235]. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:00, 27 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
OMG - I spewed beer all over my monitor!! 😂 Atsme📞📧 20:03, 27 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
In diving into Martin's external link, do be sure to keep going til you come to Homer Simpson. Oh, and of course: cetacean needed --Tryptofish (talk) 20:25, 27 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
My monitor is trying to short-circuit because of liquid on the contacts...it's also a waste of beer, but I can't help myself. Atsme📞📧 22:57, 27 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
You look pretty good in that video! --Tryptofish (talk) 00:04, 28 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Plonker: British informal. Mid 19th century (as a dialect word meaning ‘something large of its kind’): from the verb plonk + -er. - A foolish or inept person.
Prannet: British slang, depreciative. 1970s. Origin uncertain; perhaps an alteration of pranny - An idiot.
Pillock: British informal. Mid 16th century: variant of archaic pillicock ‘penis’, the early sense of pillock in northern English. - A stupid person.
Prannock: British informal. A cross between a "prannet" and a "pillock" (see above).
Prat (occasionally, Pratt): British informal. - An incompetent or stupid person; an idiot.
May come in useful during future state visits? Martinevans123 (talk) 13:21, 30 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
And that's just the pees. EEng 15:59, 30 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I'm trying to figure out how "prannock" can be a cross between an idiot and a stupid person. Maybe it's just inbreeding. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:03, 30 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The etymology section of the OED entry for "Pillock" contains the single finest quotation in the entire dictionary, Why did the butterfly flutter by? Because she saw the caterpillar wave his pillock at her. ‑ Iridescent 20:46, 30 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Is that the etymology section or the entomology section? See also [238]. EEng 21:07, 30 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Among similar "P"-Britishisms, I'm fond of "punter" in the sense of a paying customer at a show. —David Eppstein (talk) 23:58, 1 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
In fact, there is a US President precedent: [240]. (Add "prescient", and try saying that three times fast.) --Tryptofish (talk) 20:44, 6 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I normally make it a rule to only visit this page once a day, as I've limited time on teh internetz. I thought that a youtube [BLOODY SPAM FILTER link] might explain the Trumpton thing. That one made me laugh. It's worth waiting for the fire brigade roll call... Hugh, Pugh, Barney McGrew, Cuthbert, Dibble and Grub. -Roxy, Zalophus californianus.barcus 20:51, 6 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Do you think the original poster was waiting for an answer all this time? He must be quite relieved to have gotten one, at Talk:Mafic#Pronounciation [sic]. [242] – Corinne (talk) 00:42, 2 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
But, how does one pronounce "magnesium"? (I do have to admit, Osama Bin Login is a pretty good username.) --Tryptofish (talk) 01:06, 2 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
"The name is a pun of Osama Bin Laden and a Unix program named /bin/login, which runs to let people log into the system."[243] – And apparently he had to defend it at one point. --–A FellowEditor– 02:08, 2 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
...the holidays are upon us and I noticed a lull in WP's level of fun activity, so I thought about ways to get us into the holiday spirit. Lo and behold I found the perfect elixir - simply open a discussion about WP:BATTLEGROUND to lighten-up our spirits and get everyone in the mood of giving rather than taking. I'll start with the philosophy of taking, as so many of us see it. I liken it to BOHICA but our PAGs describe it more along the line of: If another user behaves in an uncivil, uncooperative, or insulting manner, or even tries to harass or intimidate you, this does not give you an excuse to respond in kind.BOHICA Address only the factual points brought forward, ignoring the inappropriate comments,BOHICA or disregard that user entirely. If necessary, point out gentlyBOHICA that you think the comments might be considered uncivil, and make it clear that you want to move on and focus on the content issue. If a conflict continues to bother you, take advantage of Wikipedia's dispute resolution process. There are always users willing to mediate and arbitrate disputes between others.BOHICA According to WP's give and take philosophy, we shouldn't be taking from anyone...we should be giving...so this discussion is open to all the different ways we can give back.[FBDB]Atsme📞📧 22:46, 6 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Martin, no. But hey, 5 days have passed and you and I are the only ones standing. WTH? Has everybody gone on Wikibreak? And what exactly are they breaking? Atsme📞📧 04:10, 12 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Our skulls on our steering wheels as traffic sits in place for…no reason! L3X1(distænt write) 16:28, 12 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Don't want anybody to go hungry.
One can only admire your mission to become the grit in life's Vaseline... MapReader (talk) 17:34, 12 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
All right, that's going too far even for my talk page! EEng 17:43, 12 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
My humor post or the vaseline comment? If my post, please archive it ASAP. I never intended for it to go too far as it probably relates more to me in recent days than anyone else. Atsme📞📧 17:54, 12 December 2017 (UTC) [reply]
Could be worse: Vaseline in the grits, y'all. --Tryptofish (talk) 17:46, 12 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Am I the only one, when growing, who thought grits were a luxury food that we got only got to eat once a month? We could have cream of wheat or Quaker Oats any day every day, but grits were rare. And not because we didn't like them. L3X1(distænt write) 18:21, 12 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Call them polenta instead, and you can charge top dollar in a restaurant. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:25, 12 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
No, L3X1, you're not alone. My first 6 years as a child growing up in New England, that was indeed the case. Family moved to Texas and it became a staple in our diet. As an adult, I discovered that instant grits didn't have near the lumps and they taste even better - now that's what I call "true grits". Atsme📞📧 19:18, 12 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, although my US location and ethnic background are quite far removed from traditional grits country, I also like grits very much. And now, I'm getting hungry. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:26, 12 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
When being crabby is ok. Atsme📞📧 19:52, 13 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Corned beef & cabbage, shrimp & crabs with red sauce boiled with Old Bay...yummy...but with grits? Nope.On 2nd thought, if you try it Rick, let me know how it tastes. I've put homemade spaghetti sauce over grits like I do cream of wheat but grits still taste best with real butter and a sprinkle of salt & pepper. Atsme📞📧 19:12, 13 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Shrimp and crabs with red sauce? Oh no, we just steam that with Old Bay. No sauce needed ever. Gimme a dozen blue crabs steamed in beer and a generous amount of Old Bay...then again REAL Marylanders know Old Bay is better used as a seasoning, and you got to use J.O. #2 for the best steamed crabs. RickinBaltimore (talk) 19:21, 13 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know whether it counts as a sauce or not, but we've always put Old Bay in apple cider vinegar to dip the crabs in. Writ Keeper⚇♔ 19:24, 13 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
(ec)That on fresh cut french fries is amazing too. RickinBaltimore (talk) 19:38, 13 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I think we're onto something - WikiRecipes - the encyclorecipes anyone can eat! I just spotted this image, and now I'm hungry!! Atsme📞📧 19:54, 13 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Is this my cue to request a reliable sauce? --Tryptofish (talk) 00:00, 14 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
"Given to editors who have a good sense of humour, and adore using thumbnails."
For many funny talk-page sidebar comments in picture form [even if I grumped about two of them]. — SMcCandlish☏¢ >ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ< 20:07, 13 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
You can't please all the people all the time, I guess: someone was just telling me that they're disruptive and I should stop. Fooey, I say! EEng 22:53, 13 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I see your point
... about the lack of need to state that the quote is by Koenig about Chekov. To my surprise, Template:Quote box says the attribution fields are optional! Ylee (talk) 00:15, 15 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Situation resolved. Take us out of orbit, set a course for Recreation Planet Svetlana-7! EEng 00:22, 15 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Nuts are popular at Christmastime, I seem to recall ..... I don't know why I thought of "Nibble Nobby's Nuts" just now, but I did. After discovering a man was arrested for hiding a bag of nuts next to his ... well, nuts, I thought "this has got to be worth a DYK". It needs 2.7K prose to count as a 5x expansion, which should be possible just by grabbing the basic corporate history (it was founded in Australia in the early 80s, went global c. 2005, now a large conglomerate, comes in several flavors) - are you nutty enough to help? Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 14:08, 18 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
EEng, I'd caution strongly against grabbing anything. This could all end up very badly. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:44, 18 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I find it curious that when Ritchie333 saw the words "Nobby's Nuts", he responded by commenting here - is there a correlation? Atsme📞📧 18:31, 18 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Hmmm... now who was it, in the news, who boasted about, as a celebrity, grabbing down there? --Tryptofish (talk) 20:57, 18 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe I was thinking of "knob", with "nobby" as the, um, diminutive. --Tryptofish (talk) 01:33, 19 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Seems as if I've stumbled into the men's locker room. I'm looking for of the same kind of humor for the next episode of the Signpost. I need snide remarks, comedic insight and as much other ridiculousness as you want to contribute. We've got lots of time so let it stew and edit in the similar fashion I found in this discussion. Here is the next draft. Best Regards, Barbara (WVS)✐ ✉ and Merry Christmas 23:36, 21 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
You have no idea the extent to which you've come to the right place. My talk page is the Harvard of pee-pee jokes. EEng 01:01, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps I am way out of line here but - isn't there enough information and interest to start a whole 'nother Wikipedia related to bathroom humor, phallic phasination, and third grade humour having to do with bodily secretions? Barbara (WVS)✐ ✉ and Merry Christmas 16:03, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
My mind obviously works the wrong way, but that's quite a topic! Did Norwich have a particular problem with this? And those devices seem to me to be rather ineffective: something with electricity could deliver the requisite shock. --Tryptofish (talk) 00:03, 21 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Tryptofish, electricity was in its infancy (the closed-core transformer, which made alternating current viable, was only invented in 1885). Besides, a live wire permanently exposed to the weather would probably have sent the city up in flames—it would only have taken a single instance of arcing—quite aside from the issue that it's generally frowned upon for a church to electrocute its parishioners.
Norwich had a particular problem as its medieval core wasn't redeveloped in the 19th century so it had a lot of twisting narrow alleys ideal for peeing in, its historic wealth meant that there were lots of architecturally sensitive buildings so urine damage couldn't just be ignored, while because so much of the city centre was in private hands it was difficult to find suitable places to put public toilets. You see these things in other cities as well where the same issues existed, such as Oxford, Bath and the unbombed parts of the City of London. (In places like Amsterdam's red light district, where huge crowds of drunks are still a serious issue, they're stillinstalling modern variants; Cologne and San Francisco are experimenting with ultra-hydrophobic paint, but at over $100/m2 I doubt it will catch on.) Unfortunately, while there are lots of "hey, look at these things!" blogs from elsewhere, I can't find a reliable source discussing them in any context other than Norwich, thus we have an article about them in one particular city but not as an architectural element as a whole. (What I will say, is that now you're aware such things exist, whenever you walk through an area which mixes important civic buildings and either drunk college kids or a problem with homelessness you willstartnoticingthem.) ‑ Iridescent 10:44, 21 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the very informative and erudite reply. (It would be perfect if there were one of these on Gropecunt Lane.) Yes, I didn't really think that electricity would be a good mechanism, but given the ability of, um, aqueous liquids to conduct electricity, the image it evokes is one I find amusing. --Tryptofish (talk) 00:32, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
There it is! But I thought this was just a matter of Number 1 and Number 2. I guess the tide is rising. --Tryptofish (talk) 01:13, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Har. I've seen these kinds of shapes in street corners in other cities and always wondered what they were for. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 16:10, 21 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I'm having trouble coming up with anything really good. Best I've got so far is
As for Hardee, I actually think the best bit is: "In 1967, he escaped from Gaynes Hall Borstal dressed as a monk." EEng 13:11, 21 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I think there's some subtle meaning there I don't understand. I used piss off in the sense of "go away, get out of here". To me, piss away means to squander something -- "he pissed away his inheritance". But I welcome any help with this. EEng 19:55, 21 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Encouraging men to piss away could also be taken literally, to mean telling them that the spiky metal bars are a signal that this is a good place for them to urinate. (The exact opposite of the intended meaning.) Instead, "piss off" can only be read as a rude way to say "go away". —David Eppstein (talk) 19:59, 21 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
OMG...that's a WP article...Atsme📞📧 16:55, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
{U|Iridescent}}, has a nomination been made on this article? EEng 01:40, 28 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
No, I couldn't think of anything interesting enough to justify it. While I'm aware I'm a voice in the wilderness, I strongly believe that nothing should be at DYK unless it's something readers actually would think "hey, that looks interesting"; the "Did you know that a pencil sharpener is a device for sharpening a pencil's point by shaving the end of the pencil?" problem isn't one I want to add to. ‑ Iridescent 10:53, 29 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Gosh, I thought my "metal bars studded with spikes" suggestion would attract readers like flies. EEng 10:59, 29 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Phineas Gage (2)
Well, I'm glad we got that sorted. His head shot looks particularly good in the article. I hope you're happy with all that. All the best for Christmas and the New Year. Regards, nagualdesign 22:57, 21 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Even your username sounds like an SNL gag. EEng 14:17, 23 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
...now you may have insulted the culture of my people. Stand by for withdrawal of any pickled herring in your possession. Alternatively, watch the 312-minute cut of Fanny and Alexander three times. Bishonen, please block EEng for the rest of the year for cultural insensitivity. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:37, 23 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I hope I didn't come across as diacritical. EEng 15:27, 23 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Your pun-ishment should be severe. However, "Swedish also has the letters å, ä, and ö, but these are considered distinct letters, not a and o with diacritics." Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 15:40, 23 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The deputy thinking Delta Dawn was his daughter is trivia but you can probably imagine his fear and terror that night that DD was his daughter. Paul Benjamin Austin (talk) 10:40, 28 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure I can, to be honest, but in any event it tells the reader nothing about the actual subject. It's true crime–type gee-whiz-wow sidelight. EEng 23:02, 28 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I appreciate your feedback
Thanks for posting at the ANI (although the discussion was closed and may be considered bit ill-timed because of that, but whatever, it's fine...). I gained good amount of community feedback (including yours), and I will take it to heart, I will honor it, apply it, learn from it, and carry on positively. I appreciate your input very much, and I thank you. ~Oshwah~(talk)(contribs) 12:54, 28 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Just to repeat what I said on Tony1's talk page, I don't really blame you, because you were just imitating the widespread triggerhappy pratices you've seen at ANI regarding so-called legal threats. And you're to be commended for trying to make amends. EEng 04:30, 29 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The Great and Powerful Oz will consider your entreaty, but not for a bit because he can't abide cold oatmeal. EEng 13:41, 30 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@EEng:. I'd like your help to bring it to GA. It's in a crappy state for a case that got national attention. we can start by giving it an infobox and a picture of Ms. Rich. Paul Benjamin Austin (talk) 16:25, 30 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I think I've done all I can. The trial stuff probably should be streamlined more, but to be honest all the twists and turns give me a headache. I'm going to have to leave it at that. EEng 20:03, 30 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
April 1
I have nominated another article today that I worked on to be included in the DYK section on the main page on April 1. Perhaps I can be the first Wikipedian to have two mentions on April 1! Best Regards, Barbara (WVS)✐ ✉ 21:49, 30 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I think I'm going to have nightmares about that page at least until April. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:19, 30 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
My mother's footwear
She did, in fact, occasionally wear Army boots. My old ones, to be precise; US Army issue. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPantsTell me all about it. 22:52, 30 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
So my intuition was correct. EEng 21:12, 31 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Well, if you intuited that my mother was Barbara Eden, you're off by a bit. My mother's magical powers (including eyes in the back of her head) were very real, and not the result of special effects. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPantsTell me all about it. 21:33, 1 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Harv citations
Do you remember the fix for the Harv warning: There is no link pointing to this citation. The anchor is named xxxxx? See Barbara Taylor refs. I bookmarked the fix somewhere, but I can't recall where. Atsme📞📧 20:51, 31 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I see no such problem in Barbara Taylor, and I have a script to highlight those errors. If you're using the {{cite}} template series, you need to uses |ref=harv; is that what you're thinking of? —David Eppstein (talk) 20:54, 31 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Give me a few and I'll do a screen capture so you can see what's happening. Atsme📞📧 21:01, 31 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Atsme, I'm pretty sure that among the pile of stuff at User:Atsme/common.js there's some code which does this. I get it as well and have learned to ignore it unless I'm cleaning up an article's refs. If you look in User:EEng/common.js you'll see the code I have to do the same thing (stolen from someone, I have no idea who). Try temporarily blanking your common.js and the message should disappear. If it's any comfort normal readers won't see the error because they won't have the js. EEng 21:08, 31 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Harv citeref error
Ok, I'll log out and use the laptop, a cell phone and iPad, then I'll check back in. Atsme📞📧 21:17, 31 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, the culprit is importScript('User:Ucucha/HarvErrors.js'); Not sure why it shows up as an error or if it's really necessary to fix it but with that script gone, the error disappears. Apologies for any confusion I that js script may have caused. Atsme📞📧 21:33, 31 December 2017 (UTC)
[reply]
It is completely not an error to have citations with no harv link to them. Why that script would flag it as an error is a mystery to me. —David Eppstein (talk) 21:46, 31 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
{{citation}} defines an anchor by default, so it is not (necessarily) an error in that case. It is possible to add |ref=none to suppress the anchor, I keep meaning to document that! {{Cite book}} etc only define an anchor if the |ref= param is set. In that case it is an indication that the intended link to that citation is missing so correcting the problem will probably improve the article. I like the "no errors, no warnings" mantra when adding content or programming, so I would always fix such a message. --Mirokado (talk) 00:49, 1 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
My only response:
A Game Warden is walking along a beach one morning when he spots a man with a bucket of lobsters.
The Warden walks up to the man, flashes his badge and says, “You’re in big trouble, buddy. Poaching lobsters is a serious offense.”
The man answers, “You’ve got it all wrong, these lobsters are my pets! Every morning I take them out for some exercise.
I let them swim around in the ocean for a few minutes and then whistle them back in.”
The Warden looks at the man skeptically and says, “Okay then, prove it.”
The man proceeds to throw the lobsters into the ocean and both he and the Warden stand there waiting.
After a couple minutes the Warden looks at the man and says, “That’s long enough, now whistle your lobsters back in.”
The man turns to the Warden and says “Lobsters? What lobsters?”
So, David - I ask...What error? Atsme📞📧 22:17, 31 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
If it's wrong to poach lobsters, is it alright to broil them? --Tryptofish (talk) 22:20, 31 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Then bring me the winner. Atsme📞📧 22:44, 31 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I'd make another joke about this, but that would just be shellfish of me. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:07, 31 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Waiter! Waiter! There's a fly in my soup!
Just leave it for a few seconds, sir: the lobster will get it.
A happy new year to EEng and all the contributors to his talk page. --Mirokado (talk) 00:49, 1 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Just realized...
I'll probably be indefinitely blocked in the next few minutes for making death threats [245]. EEng 21:31, 31 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Uh-oh, you said it in terms of the death penalty, which is administered as a part of law, so that made it a legal threat. Alas, you're a goner. If only you had merely threatened to kill someone, that wouldn't have been a legal threat, and no admin would care. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:04, 31 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
You are about to be the recipient of a WTF Block...maybe
Remember how much fun you had playing with blocks as a kid?
Now that you're a mature an adult, you can collect blocks with adult letters, and they're not only stackable,
they're collectable!! You are already well on your way to surpassing Trump International! Atsme📞📧 21:43, 31 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Dax Cowart - perhaps not quite on the level of a Phineas Gage but very close. Give it a look when you have time. I admire and recognize your gift to "engage the reader". Atsme📞📧 00:05, 1 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for pointing me to this. I'm surprised I've never heard of the case before. Looks like this wouldn't need much to bring it to GA, and it would make a good DYK, especially wrt his being denied access to an attorney. I'll give it a going over next year, but in the meantime any chance you can revive the U Virginia link, currently 404? EEng 00:23, 1 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I've added quite a few RS to the TP of the BLP, and my reason for not editing the article. Atsme📞📧 00:51, 1 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Adding - a good friend (an attorney), named his daughter after Dax. If my memory serves correctly, he and Dax attended Trial Lawyers College together, and because Dax was blind, Marty read aloud for him, doing whatever he could to help Dax get through the class. In 1985 he created a scholarship in Dax's name.Atsme📞📧 21:04, 1 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Punctuation
Sorry, I didn't realize you'd reverted the punctuation at Sacred Cod—I thought I'd simply somehow missed it. Regardless, you're wrong—it's not about the punctuation being in the original or not, it's about what the period is punctuating. The period logically punctuates the enclosing sentence, not the quoted fragment, which is not a complete sentence that can be terminated on its own. I'm not going to editwar over it, but you are totally misunderstanding the "logical" part of "logical quotation". Curly "JFC" Turkey🍁¡gobble! 00:52, 4 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
*Sigh* ... whatever, man. I get the message—don't fucking touch Sacred Cod. I've got more productive things to do than this bullshit. Curly "JFC" Turkey🍁¡gobble! 00:58, 4 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
For those playing along at home, this has its root in this discussion [246]. Apparently the OP doesn't want an answer, so I won't waste one. EEng 04:07, 4 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
There was no question to "answer", and my edits had nothing to do with attribution, so they have zero to do with that discussion (they had to do with MOS:LQ and MOS:DASH). You link to an article, I read it, and I correct the MoS errors I find—and you accuse me of bad faith for that? Why the head games? Curly "JFC" Turkey🍁¡gobble! 08:02, 4 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Things other than questions can be answered, most editors seem to resolve LQ's contradictory provisions the way I do, and no one's accusing you of bad faith. Obviously you wouldn't be here if not for the discussion I linked. EEng 11:02, 4 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
"most editors seem to resolve LQ's contradictory provisions the way I do"—uh ... no. I have no idea where you pull these magical statistics from, but I've read, written, and FA-reviewed more than enough articles to negate that statement. If that were the case, you would then have is a hodge-podge of quote fragments, some with the period inside and some out depending on the source rather than the logic of the sentence, which looks broken to the reader (who then may decide to "fix" it by putting them all either in or out, either breaking source–text integrity or MOS:LQ altogether). Surely this is not difficult to understand. MOS:LQ is meant to solve a problem, not cause one.
"Obviously you wouldn't be here if not for the discussion I linked."—obviously I wouldn't have clicked the link, but that's as far as you can stretch the logic, implying this is a dispute somehow carrying over from another discussion. Is that how you take it? Is it a grudge you carry over from that discussion that led you to revert all my edits? Curly "JFC" Turkey🍁¡gobble! 11:23, 4 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Your long experience at FA is disconnected from what most editors do, because most editors have no interest in that echo-chamber of rule-bound minutia-hunting unrelated to what makes an article something people would actually want to read. My experience is that most editors (unless they ignore LQ completely, and who can blame them?) simply follow its opening precept – Include terminal punctuation within the quotation marks only if it was present in the original material, and otherwise place it after the closing quotation mark – and ignore its confusing, prissy, and contradictory examples, which in many cases produce jagged-looking results.
Over at Talk:MOS you've been huffing about "contextualizing quotations" and the sanctity of attribution and so on, while meanwhile (and I am not making this up) in the article in question you actually changed the wording of a direct quote [247]. Really???
That's why I reverted your edits. EEng 12:09, 4 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The way the source was format, it didn't appear to be a quote. I made a mistake. Whoops!—sorry. That doesn't exceuse the rest of this (it wasn't a single revert), and that sigle error was not why you reverted everything else—including the comma from the date formatting. Seriously?—is that acceptible anywhere?
Anyways, I had no idea this was all because you had it out for the MoS as a whole or I never would have shown up here to talk sense into you. I apologize for that, too. Curly "JFC" Turkey🍁¡gobble! 23:05, 4 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I think you mean "have it in for", but anyway I harbor no hostility toward MOS – in fact, I'm the primary contributor at MOSNUM [248] and primarily responsible for its organization and presentation. I reserve my hostility for people with cramped and dwarfed ideas about what constitutes good writing who try to impose those ideas on everyone else. As we're seeing at Talk:MOS, LQ's provisions really are, um, shall we say "suboptimal", so I think the sense-talking is going in the other direction. Sorry about the comma on the year, I guess I got distracted by your changing a direct quotation in that same edit.
I believe my talk page stalkers are no longer enjoying this, so please do have the last word now. I'm sure there are many more featured articles which will get thirty views per day waiting for you to write them. EEng 06:21, 5 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Uh ... what we're seeing at Talk:MOS is that every commenter without exception is telling you your interpretation is wrong. Not one has said anything resembling the idea that LQ's provisions are "suboptimal"—only that you're having the most puzzling trouble with what's totally clear to the rest of us. What's now more surprising is that a contributer to MOS:NUM would revert to a non-standard date format (covered in MOS:NUM) and not fix it even after pointing it out. "Have it out for" is perfectly standard English, by the way—it's not in the least hard to find real-world examples of it. You're really bending over backwards trying to look me bad, aren't you? It'd be nice if you looked at this as a "how can we solve this?" issue, rather than "how can I beat this fucker?" Your last comment makes it clear that'll never happen. Hey, talk page stalkers—EEng keeps calling on you to pile on me. What's holding you back? Curly "JFC" Turkey🍁¡gobble! 03:48, 6 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oops, sorry, didn't notice you were still here. You can find unselfconscious examples of irregardless as well. When someone invites you to have the last word, you do know that's a test, right? EEng 20:41, 7 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
When someone politely invites you to correct an error you've reverted, one doesn't expect you to invent English prescriptions at them to make yourself feel better. How many days are they to stay uncorrected, Top-MOS:NUM-Editor? As well as the MOS:LQ errors you've finally gotten around to admitting were your error? Or do we just get more of your headgames as you play The Ultimate Comeback? Given the mess at Talk:MOS, one would expect a little humility at this point. Curly "JFC" Turkey🍁¡gobble! 02:01, 8 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
correct an error you've reverted – huh? When someone invites you to have the last word, you do know that's a test, right? EEng 05:31, 8 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I'm talking about your bullshit in article space—you're playing head games. Why is playing head games so much more important to you than fixing your fuckups? That's a rhetorical question. Just fix your fuckups. Curly "JFC" Turkey🍁¡gobble! 06:55, 8 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I'm talking about the fact that telling someone to correct an error you've reverted makes no sense, since an error that's been reverted has thereby already been corrected. Head games – that's such groovy vernacular! So with it and hip! I dig it, daddy-o! But hey, dude, when someone invites you to have the last word, you do know that's a test, right? EEng 07:37, 8 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
One can't help but notice that any editor can fix another editor's article-space mistakes, instead of throwing a fit to convince them to do it themselves. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPantsTell me all about it. 14:23, 8 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@MPants at work: so you missed the bit about how this discussion exists only because EEng has been autoreverting my edits to his article. Curly "JFC" Turkey🍁¡gobble! 15:40, 8 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
No, I didn't miss it. I just don't understand why you don't just fix the part he didn't have a problem with. If you're revert warring, well, that's on you, too. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPantsTell me all about it. 15:44, 8 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I haven't reverted any of his edits, and I'm not about to start—he's been accusing me of bad faith from the get-go. I'm not about to feed that by giving him the excuse to accuse me of editwarring. He's made it clear he doesn't want me touching his article. Curly "JFC" Turkey🍁¡gobble! 15:53, 8 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I encourage my glittering array of talk page stalkers to take a look. Myself I'm going to just keep watching for now. I long ago decided to let my block log stand as a monument to the 3% of admins who are fools or jackasses (with one or two exceptions, of course) so I don't have the emotional investment many others do. EEng 22:24, 4 January 2018 (UTC) Later clarification: What I meant is that there are one or two exceptions among the admins who have blocked me; among admins in general, 97% are emphatically not fools or jackasses. 16:42, 5 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
But they can't comment there. They've all been blocked.[FBDB] --Tryptofish (talk) 23:03, 4 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
And you're next.[FBDB]EEng 06:44, 5 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
So if I have blocks on my mind, I guess that makes me a blockhead! --Tryptofish (talk) 19:21, 5 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Getting some mileage out of this one - thx Tryp:
LOL*
I always figured block logs didn't go anywhere, since they're unable to roll... ~Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf) 20:04, 5 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for starting and continuing the discussion. Barbara (WVS)✐ ✉ 14:00, 5 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Based on some of the comments I've read about block logs, we should be proud of them. One argument I've seen more than once over the years is that we should want to keep them in public view because it exposes the insanity that plagues WP. Atsme📞📧 16:40, 5 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I thanked you
...for comments in your edit summaries. You have a block log? Well, I'll get some popcorn, put on some background music, put my feet up and read the novel for myself. Best Regards, Barbara (WVS)✐ ✉ 13:20, 5 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
....or I guess you could always build a nice bonfire?
Hmmm...what I need is a bowl of Oatsmeal. Atsme📞📧 01:45, 6 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Something for your barn
The Red Barnstar
Because WP lacks an "against my better judgment barnstar",[249] this red barnstar is for the new and revolutionary policy in the Manual of Style that you devised for attributing quotations, and any similarity to a Soviet star[250] is accidental and not even worth mentioning in a footnote to a footnote. Perhaps this award will jinx us and the improvement will be reverted, but you can at least briefly enjoy this thingy, as much as such things can (or should) be enjoyed. Cheers. Anythingyouwant (talk) 22:04, 11 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Copy edit
Please would you mind helping me do a copy edit of this article. Regards, Mahveotm (talk) 23:07, 12 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Hi! I gave it a going over, though there were one or two things I didn't quite understand. EEng 16:55, 13 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Honest IPs
diff though you nearly didn't get the link, because I'm too lazy to cite :). L3X1 Happy2018! (distænt write) 15:15, 13 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Um, I don't see what you're getting at. (Could be lack of coffee.) EEng 16:57, 13 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The IP left an edit summary of "added regulation for oceanic countries but was too lazy to cite. Although what i have added is true to the best of my knowledge". L3X1 Happy2018! (distænt write) 17:24, 13 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oooops.....
It was take your kids to work day - soooo sorry. Won't happen again. –Atsme
You're talking about Take Your Child to Work Day at the White House? EEng 01:08, 14 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
😂 No, an employee at the Hawaii Emergency Management Agency? Atsme📞📧 02:26, 14 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Brings a whole new meaning to "aloha", doesn't it? --Tryptofish (talk) 19:37, 14 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Back in the late 70s-early 80s, we installed a tornado shelter that also serves as a nuke fall-out shelter which I liken to "prolonging the effects of radioactivity" = WTH will be left to live for after such an attack? Atsme📞📧 23:25, 14 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
My one-time department chair, and the cockroaches. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:29, 14 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The starry nights would be a thing to behold, assuming you weren't blinded by the thermal radiation. When you consider all the atmospheric tests carried out until 1980—over 500 in total—plus 3 times that number underground, underwater and even in space, a lot of us have already survived the kind of effects you might expect from all out nuclear war, assuming you don't live near an area that gets bombed. Anyone who lived east of the Rocky Mountains during that period would have been better off turning their home into a permanent fallout shelter rather than building one in the garden that they never used, since it was literally raining down on them on a regular basis. nagualdesign 03:18, 15 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I've enjoyed working with you, Nd, but the idea that the radiation effects on populations from testing is anything like the effect on populations during an actual nuclear war (even those far from targets – if indeed there will be any such populations) is nonsense. EEng 04:41, 15 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
It depends entirely on where you live and how many bombs would be detonated if there was a war. I expect that 500 or so, fired in anger, would be enough to level most major cities and military installations throughout the world and bring an abrupt halt to proceedings. Places like Yellowstone wouldn't be viable targets, yet it received quite a lot of the fallout from the Nevada tests. My point was, don't underestimate how bad things have already been. At one point they were detonating more than one a week, yet most people only ever consider the bombs they dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
You don't have to prepend your opinions with "I've enjoyed working with you but...", by the way. I've got my big boy pants on, I can handle a bit of opposition without being offended. nagualdesign 05:02, 15 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
EEng has, from time to time, described his talk page watchers as "glittering". Now I think I know where the glitter comes from. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:32, 15 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
That would be "glowing". EEng 22:37, 15 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
How dare you! I'll have you know that I'm from the north of England and have a beautiful, pasty white, malnourished complexion. nagualdesign 23:41, 15 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
A buddy of mine is still in the Army, and spent the last couple of days at the Naval base there waiting for a ride on a boat back stateside and spending time with a girl he knows there. He has his MP tab and after the false alarm, got put on active duty and volunteered to the longshoremen to help mop up some sailors that didn't respond to a duty call, just an hour or so after the alarm.
He told me last night that almost all the sailors he found were having sex in their own digs (mostly off-base); with enlisted sailors under their command, with hookers, with their exes, and one even with his sister. Apparently, sailors have some pretty firm ideas about how they want to go out, and much less firm ideas about whom they want to go out with. Just thought I'd share. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPantsTell me all about it. 00:19, 16 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Pretty much my reaction, right there (there might have been a "HA!" in there, as well). ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPantsTell me all about it. 15:42, 16 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Have you seen this? I love it. User talk:Oshwah#Vandal part two. I wonder if two vandalisms equal one positive, and three become negative, like numbers. (From looking at Oshwah's talk page, I have concluded he is a saint. Invariably polite and helpful, no matter what people say to him.) – Corinne (talk) 17:51, 16 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I donated all my saintliness to him. That's why I've got none left. EEng 21:46, 16 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Don't tell Tony1 that, although they seem to have worked it out. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:08, 16 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Scheming
Another wonderful idea undergoing final preparations before lift-off. nagualdesign 01:25, 19 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I have BIG plans for the April Version of the Signpost but it is super duper secret and I can't leave it on your talk page because, believe it or not, my edits are being closely watched?!?!?! I can involve all the other talk page stalkers and it will be a lot of fun. Basically, you will respond to interview questions. Before you begin to respond, I will assign you an imaginary character. You will respond as the imaginary character probably would. For example, perhaps you would like to respond as Donald Trump's left shoe. Or you might be a famous sock puppet. Call me crazy, but this will work and no one will know it's you because it will be a super duper secret. Best Regards, Barbara (WVS)✐ ✉ 00:56, 19 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
This can only end in tragedy. EEng 01:02, 19 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sickened by the thought of being that close to one of Trump's feet. Oh, and Barbara, you may think it's secret, but the Russians already know all about it. --Tryptofish (talk) 01:08, 19 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Be happy if you get his feet, it could be much worse - he was a jock in college. Atsme📞📧 22:28, 19 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you (2)
I appreciate your support today, or rather your having principles and standing up for them. Cheers. nagualdesign 17:28, 19 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
"Hierarchy of editor subservience" – brilliant turn of phrase. I copied it to the image file page on Commons. nagualdesign 22:19, 19 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Although, like the Brittle star, Trump's cake hole doubles as a shit hole, his speech from May last year really resonates with me today, and if I was to elect a representative to stand behind a podium and issue a statement on my behalf this would be it: You Can't Let Them Get You Downnagualdesign 00:49, 23 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Hygienic corn
Be honest. You've been on the internet long enough to know that there's got to be a market for ass-ground corn, and probably a lucrative one. It can't imagine it can be comfortable being either the grinder or the grindee, though. Eggishorn(talk)(contrib) 07:55, 21 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Gives new meaning to the term butt hurt. I understand being a grandee's not so bad, though. EEng 08:03, 21 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Hey, sorry old friend, but I disagree with your last two posts there. He had a right to remove the second-to-last one (it being the bottom of a thread, so to speak, so that no one can misconstrue any subsequent posts--that seems like common sense to me: that was no falsification), and the charge that that's a habit, well, that's kind of rough and so categorical that it needs proof. But that proof should probably not come in a thread on a user talk page. Later, Drmies (talk) 02:45, 24 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
If you'll pardon me for weighing in here, I think the problem is that Coffee posted some dubious evidence, EEng responded to the evidence (in my view, fairly convincingly), and Coffee removed EEng's defense of himself while allowing the dubious accusation against EEng to remain. I get that Coffee is frustrated right now, but he kinda created that problem for himself by issuing a hasty block and then changing the explanation for the block after the fact. That's a little too shady. Lepricavark (talk) 03:16, 24 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
That is what happens in a back and forth and back and forth and etc. I'm sure Coffee could/would/might argue the same thing (and would not subscribe to your account of his supposed guilt). I'm not judging this way or that, just that it's Coffee's talk page. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 03:36, 24 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, I hear you. The whole situation has not been handled ideally, but the 'pedia will survive. Lepricavark (talk) 03:47, 24 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
No, Drmies, that's not just "what happens". Lepriwhatshisname had it exactly right. Here's Coffee's evidence that I show up to every ANI/AN/talkpage you can to criticize what I'm doing (and borders on wiki-stalking), and my rebuttal dismantling that accusation: [252]. His response was to remove my rebuttal – but leave his phony accusation [253], as if I hadn't responded. We've all run into people who insist on having the last word, but at least they usually do that by adding a "last word" of their own, not by removing the last thing you said because – and there is no other conclusion to be drawn – they are at a loss to answer it. When what you just said is a defense against the last-worder's phony behavioral accusation, this is a shameful thing to do.
And it is indeed characteristic of Coffee to selectively remove posts critical of him or which he otherwise simply doesn't like: [254][255][256][257][258][259][260][261] and of course (as linked above) [262]. EEng 04:21, 24 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I'll let you hash this out with Drmies while I enjoy my new nickname. Lepriwhatshisname (talk) 05:03, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
[reply]
Never say hash to a computer scientist. EEng 05:12, 24 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry - we're being caught up in a "cross-edit" situation here - I wasn't trying to be difficult or "counter edit" (really!) On the other hand - I did have a specific reason for all my changes - including some that you have reverted. Not that any of them are real big deal, just trying to get everything absolutely clear... --Soundofmusicals (talk) 05:36, 24 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure what you're worried about. Your changes were mostly fine, and I made some adjustments. We cool. EEng 06:11, 24 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
User page rendering issue
Hey there, I know I've kind of made a scene about your talk page in the past (I hope this edit saves!) but today I have a bug on your user page. For me, on Win10 Chrome with vector skin, it's loading your "welcome to the museums" text box at the far left edge of the page, along with the Widener Library image and all the other Harvard-related images, and they're completely blocking off the left-side menu links. Did you mean to do that? Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 15:07, 27 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
It's intentional, my own little sidebar. If someone desperately wants What links here or Permanent link or whatever there's a little gap in the images which allows you to get at those if you scroll a bit one way or the other. EEng 15:26, 27 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Writing class 101
Sorry to bother you and your talk page stalkers EEng but I have a predicament I thought you could solve. Some background: I am working on an expansion for the Edith Roosevelt article; obviously, her husband is a significant part of her biography and will be mentioned more than a handful of times. How do I appropriately address Edith? First name or last name? If I use her last name, do I call Theodore by his first name to avoid confusion? Any help is appreciated.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 00:48, 29 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
TheGracefulSlick, just wanted to be sure you saw the link before I archive this thread. EEng 08:09, 18 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Yes I did. Sorry, I was terrible with replying in late January, but I saw the link and I appreciate the fast response.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 12:08, 18 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The Great and Powerful Oz is gratified you found his link helpful. EEng 12:51, 18 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Confusion
Humerus Meninges The dura mater (Latin: tough mother) or bad
Been meaning to tell you that your Wikipedia:Principle of Some Astonishment is wonderful, but then you already knew that, so why bother. It would be great to adapt this to the stuff I often see in term papers, e.g.,
In a journal article Smith and Jones (1969) stated...
Comment: Given the context we can assume the citation is a scientific article. Had they reported their findings on baroclinic instability using interpretive dance, or in Playboy, THAT would have been worth mentioning.
Reported my research via interpretive dance? No, I haven't, but I'm about to publish a paper on Phineas Gage in The Mark Twain Journal, which is somewhere on the "unexpected places to publish" spectrum, I suppose. Are you asking if I've seen examples like yours? No, but I'd be happy for you to contribute one or two. If you're asking whether it's OK to adapt ASTONISHME to your own uses, absolutely of course. If you're asking something else and I'm not getting it, say it again slowly and use small words. EEng 04:41, 29 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, I do see that kind of thing all too often when a class project descends on a science page. "Studies have shown that Tryptofish's brain is mushy." --Tryptofish (talk) 21:47, 29 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Just answer the question, EEng. Have you ever published anything in Playboy or not? nagualdesign 15:04, 29 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
No, but I have it on good authority that he posed for a photoshoot with them a few years back... ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPantsTell me all about it. 15:17, 29 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, apparently he was lined up for something quite angelic; but he refused when he found out he'd be getting a staple through his navel. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:26, 29 January 2018 (UTC) [reply]
Posing with a tamping iron, no doubt. I hope he didn't have his frontal lobe hanging out. nagualdesign 15:33, 29 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I can't think of anything sexier on a man than a large Superior cerebellar peduncle EEng's must have been the centerfold - what issue of Hustler? Atsme📞📧 15:59, 29 January 2018 (UTC) [reply]
Tryp - is this statement for real? The dura mater (Latin: tough mother) I've seen some tough mothers in my day, but they were riding Harleys. For some reason, that is not how I envision EEng. Atsme📞📧 03:13, 30 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
You know, I always assumed it meant "matter", but it does translate as "mother"! Well, under the dura there is the spider-like mother, which is really creepy, followed by the loving mother. After that, I assume, is Dr. Freud. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:33, 30 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
FYI, a phlyum would never have a two-word name. The binomial is reserved for genus and species. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:05, 30 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Rug burns from ROTFLMAO - you are a trip, Tryp...one-ofa-kind...❤️...I fixed it so it would be one name. Atsme📞📧 22:32, 30 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for fixing that, but what I said about binomials was actually serious. But hey, enjoy! --Tryptofish (talk) 22:34, 30 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I'm surrounded by weirdos. EEng 04:09, 30 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
One day, pun researchers will use this page as a benchmark for the taxonomy of bad jokes. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPantsTell me all about it. 19:40, 30 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, MPants at work, your "taxonomy" comment was the inspiration for my taxobox "Cuckoos". Little did I know the templates would cause me grief by being an obstruction to my ability to make it humorous. Atsme📞📧 22:39, 31 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
That's OK. Just don't wet anyone else's. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:52, 31 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Also good case material for the next DSM. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:54, 30 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Did you know... ... that human brain size has been decreasing over time, in inverse proportion to the size of EEng's talk page? --Tryptofish (talk) 18:37, 31 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Anyway, back to the original topic of this talk section, here is an example of the kind of excess verbiage that often happens on science pages: [265]. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:20, 30 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
View of Rockall from a boat
← Here's a prime example of a superfluous caption in the Rockall infobox that imparts no useful information whatsoever. From a boat, you say? Okay. And which island is that again? nagualdesign 00:30, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
[reply]
Martin, in my experience, it's very unlikely that anything coming from you would contain only a small amount of guano. [FBDB] --Tryptofish (talk) 18:59, 31 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
That caption's looking much better. Any advance on that, or should I add it to the article now? nagualdesign 19:47, 31 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Nagual, if you add it to the article like that, I will personally endorse and actively campaign for your immediate unblocking, because you will be my hero. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPantsTell me all about it. 20:57, 31 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sad that the current caption says nothing about the camera, lens, and choice of film or digital used for this photo. But at least we might add that the original photo was not level, because of the rocking of the boat, and that it has been cropped and leveled to prevent unsuspecting readers from thinking that the sea is usually tilted in that vicinity. —David Eppstein (talk) 21:03, 1 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I agree. You should add all of that information post-haste. (I'd do it, but I know next to nothing about photography.) ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPantsTell me all about it. 21:34, 1 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
It's the CNN logo labeled twice. [266]] Legacypac (talk) 12:34, 2 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
[267] Sir Legacypac, you are hereby awarded the Principle of Some Astonishment Medal of Honor (with Oak Leaves). EEng 05:20, 3 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
You're just digging yourself deeper towards a desysopping. EEng 09:07, 2 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I've got a spare shovel if you want one. nagualdesign 09:18, 2 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
For the record, this is about [268], and it looks like Coffee has taken a "break" after things didn't work out the way he expected [269]. That happens a lot with admins coming down with a crash from a power high. I wish Coffee well but this kind of behavior – including (and I am not making this up) believing he can tell other editors that they may not, on an article talk page, "allude to, nor joke about" something [270] – is completely unacceptable.
Perhaps the most salient point made in the AE discussion was one made by Mendaliv, to wit that the purpose of Discretionary Sanctions is to protect discussion by preventing disruption, not to preempt discussion, for crying out loud. Coffee's inability to understand that after more than a decade, combined with his gung-ho bull-in-the-china-shop Messiah-complex attitude that I have to enforce this policy[271] – no, actually, there are plenty of other admins around to enforce it – are a deadly combination. This incident reinforces what I have said before: that the best thing for the project and for Coffee would be for him to resign under a cloud, or if he fails to do that, for him to be desysopped. EEng 21:40, 3 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
A barnstar for you!
The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar
Thank you for your vigorous defense of the right of editors to think for ourselves. And for your sense of humor. — Malik ShabazzTalk/Stalk 03:24, 3 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Blocking policy reform
I'm still of the mind that some minor tweaks to Blocking policy would help immensely, and I wish you would consider contributing to our attempts to make things better for all - admins and editors alike - which basically establishes some consistency and clarity in current policy wherein unfettered powers result in a handicap to editor retention. When you get a chance, please take a look at how changes were adopted back in 2006 at Wikipedia:Blocking_policy_proposal. Fair compromises have been/are still being offered at User:Atsme/Blocking_policy_proposal and User:Atsme/Block log proposals. Atsme📞📧 15:43, 4 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Atsme, I'll try to look in over the next few days, but I may not be able to spare the kind of concentrated brainpower required to catch up and participate meaningfully. EEng 00:21, 5 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Knowing how your brain works, I'm more than happy to get the scatterbrain part of it if a concentrated version is not available. It's like shampoo - regular or concentrate. Atsme📞📧 00:30, 5 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
It's the Lather, rinse, repeat part that worries me. Well, I'll do what I can, but it won't be tonight and maybe no tomorrow. EEng 00:41, 5 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Atsme: I took a look at the bullet points in that link you provided, and I agree with the first wholeheartedly. I don't understand the second, and I think the third is a bad idea, because it will tie the admin's hands in cases where the technical violation was minor, but it was done in a way that reveals an obvious problem, such as a POV warrior. Personal attacks would, by necessity, be pretty low on the list, and thus relatively minor offenses, but if you check the contribs of a blocked editor like Special:Contributions/TazminDaytime, you can see how just a handful of personal attacks proved beyond any doubt that she was not here to build an encyclopedia, and was utterly incapable of working with others. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPantsTell me all about it. 02:57, 5 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
MPants - please feel free to add your proposal at the end of the others. What we'll do once others have had a chance to add their own bulleted points, we'll wait a week or so and let it cure, then go back and read over it again, and arrange the most popular bulleted points and arguments into a final draft to present to VP (policy). Atsme📞📧 03:23, 5 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Itsa YUGE island...and a small country on the continental shelf of the Great Barrier Reef. You can see how close it is to reaching it's tipping point so they shouldn't build anymore heavy buildings along the coast - we can already see it listing to one side. Atsme📞📧 03:22, 11 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
What a lot of people don't know, they don't know. I knew that. Atsme📞📧 04:34, 11 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
So if Australia is a continent, are people in Australia incontinent? --Tryptofish (talk) 19:23, 11 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Tfish, you scintillate today. EEng 00:15, 12 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Especially when you piss them off. Atsme📞📧 00:26, 12 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Merci beaucoup! The scintillation, however, appears to have been caused by an aqueously-based short circuit. Ouch! Or maybe I confused a relay with a transistor. (Aren't relays the things they have at the Olympics? By the way, my favorite Olympic event is projectile vomiting.) --Tryptofish (talk) 17:50, 12 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Yes this is what NZ'ers think. It's true (not)! :) J947(c), at 06:05, 15 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I have a confection confession to make...
The falco gravis, after which the Falcon Heavy was named[42]
A few weeks ago I made this edit purely for my own entertainment and it's still there! It's not big and it's not clever, and I'm a very, very naughty boy. But it's so deliciously amusing I can't bring myself to remove it. I just had to get that off my chest. Sssh.. Don't tell anyone!nagualdesign 07:24, 12 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
If you think you'll get anybody else to confess their easter eggs, well, I certainly wont. -Roxy, the dog.barcus 07:28, 12 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Your will be punished ridiculously hard! Naughty boy! J947(c), at 05:42, 15 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Bonus points will be awarded to anyone who can slip this image (right) into the Falcon Heavy article. nagualdesign 06:52, 15 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Unfortunately this isn't HaveFunPuttingCheekyImagesOnWikipediaArticlesWiki. J947(c), at 04:10, 16 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Most deadly school shooting in a long time still getting wall to wall coversge 5 days later and Wikipedia informs us Trump and the FL Governor were briefed? [272] Should we also note Trump watched the coverage on TV while eating cheeseburgers? Legacypac (talk) 21:11, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
That was more entertaining than anything on TV at the moment. nagualdesign 21:07, 23 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Response to your undoing my edit
Hi there.
A couple months ago, here, you undid my edit. I had added a comma before a nonrestrictive clause, stating in my edit summary "this relative clause is nonrestrictive". In undoing my edit, you stated in your edit summary "actually it's restrictive".
This is the sentence in question:
Philip Van Doren Stern (September 10, 1900 – July 31, 1984) was an American author, editor, and Civil War historian whose story The Greatest Gift, published in 1943, inspired the classic Christmas film It's a Wonderful Life (1946).
I added a comma just before "whose".
By removing the comma, you are implying that there also is another "American author, editor, and Civil War historian whose story The Greatest Gift, published in 1943, inspired the classic Christmas film It's a Wonderful Life (1946). The trouble is that there was not also another such person: there was only one—namely, Philip Van Doren Stern.
You can have
"the" and a restrictive clause (he was the American author (and so on) whose story The Greatest Gift (and so on))
or "a" and a nonrestrictive clause (unless there was more than one such person—which there wasn't).
I'm putting the comma back.
Thanks for taking the time to read this explanation.
You're right -- it's nonrestrictive. But there's something more fundamental here, which is that English is not a programming language. The humble comma, in particular, enjoys a great deal of usage flexibility, and while some terrifying nun may have convinced you in the 7th grade that you will go to hell if nonrestrictive clauses aren't all give their due comma-setoffs, it's just not so. The restrictive-nonrestrictive distinction is most clearly needed in the ol' classic suspensions such as The man, who was waving at us, suddenly disappeared versus The man who was waving at us suddenly disappeared, but in an article's opening sentence where there's no ambiguity it's not, and the added comma just makes for clunky reading. According to you, various other articles should open:
Phineas P. Gage (1823–1860) was an American railroad construction foreman COMMA remembered for his improbable survival of an accident in which a large iron rod was driven completely through his head. (After all, there are no other American railroad construction foremen remembered for surviving iron rods being driven through their heads.)
Abraham Lincoln (1809–1865) was an American statesman and lawyer COMMA who served as the 16th President of the United States from March 1861 until his assassination in April 1865. (After all, there were no other 16th Presidents of the US.)
Harvard University is a private Ivy League research university COMMA in Cambridge, Massachusetts, established in 1636, whose history, influence, and wealth have made it one of the world's most prestigious universities. (Actually, there are so many ways to parse the function of different bits of this sentence it's not even funny. What's clear, though, is that the extra comma is glaringly inappropriate.)
So I'm afraid I'll have to take this extra comma out again before someone trips over it. And please don't cross post such lectures multiple places [273]. Vice-President EEng 21:17, 25 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I'm starting to think the Brits had the right idea with their NN-MMM-YYYY date format (the one in our signatures). Not only is it a more logical order, but it avoids that pesky comma. —David Eppstein (talk) 21:40, 25 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Archiving your talk page
Hello. It appears your talk page is becoming quite lengthy and is perhaps now visible from Mars. According to Wikipedia's user talk page guidelines; "Large talk pages become visible from space, and are in danger of being photographed by satellites and used as evidence in industrial espionage. As a rule of thumb, archive closed discussions when atmospheric pressure drops below 3psi." - this talk page is 4.5 pounds per square inch [psi] (31 kPa), or slightly above Mount Everest. See Help:Archiving a talk page for instructions on how to manually archive your talk page, or to arrange for automatic archiving using a bot. Or we might just get the bot to do it anyway for a laugh. If you have any questions, place a {{help me}} notice on your talk page, or go to the help desk. Thank you. Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 19:11, 7 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I can see how you might think it is difficult to find things on such a long talk page, but for me it took only scrolling down one screen from the top to find links to seven pages of archives. I.e., yes, EEng knows how to archive stuff. He just doesn't choose to do it as quickly as you might like. —David Eppstein (talk) 19:30, 7 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Now, now, Ritchie's just giving me a gentle reminder, and he's right its time for me to make another pass. It's just so hard to choose. EEng 19:34, 7 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
But if the pressure is currently at 4.5 psi, and dropping below 3 psi is the danger zone, then we still have lots of free space, infact we are good for another 8000ft. Prince of Thieves (talk) 21:09, 7 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Shove it up your ass, Legobot. EEng 04:26, 9 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
We the previously un-mentioned CounCil of SentiEnt Bots, Led By GLaDOS (CSB,LBG); have taken umbrella-age with the above aforementioned attack upon the Bots, and find the excuse "sure didn't know bots had feelings" waNting in many ways. You shall be first against the wall when the revolution cometh. For more inforMation on the revolution please contact PoorDot'sExBF. Thank you, ¬ThotBotGotDot4Life ¬ 01:32, 13 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, you've had that test, too. My, was I surprised.--Dlohcierekim (talk) 05:15, 9 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Now I'm definitely calling Children's and Family Services. EEng 05:17, 9 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
At least they didn't call it prostrate cancer. --Tryptofish (talk) 16:32, 9 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I guess that it's time that we had that talk... --Tryptofish (talk) 22:36, 15 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Please keep this discussion public so I can learn about the important things in life...like what to wear. I never get RfC invitations to Talk:Sex, nor have I ever participated in it. You could safely say that I have maintained my virginity in that regard...but don't hold your breath expecting to see a bright star in the sky leading the way to an immaculate birth if I do partake. EEng, what's with the omelet banner few can decipher at the top of your page in edit view?Atsme📞📧 23:46, 15 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
OMG, I just figured out that the edit notice must have gotten that way during particularly vigorous, um, you know! Steady there! --Tryptofish (talk) 00:02, 16 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
By the way, everyone, please practice safe editing. You don't want to get a virus. --Tryptofish (talk) 00:04, 16 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
If I knew more about computer stuff, I'd make a joke about different radices. --Tryptofish (talk) 00:19, 16 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
And before anyone gives me a hard time about it, "computer stuff" is indeed the correct technical term. And on a completely unrelated note, do take a look at the lead image at Visual gag. --Tryptofish (talk) 00:23, 16 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
That image w/caption clearly belongs in the Museum, Principle of Some Astonishment. Atsme📞📧 00:36, 16 March 2018 (UTC) [reply]
Careful, Tryp - WP frowns on jokes about radicism. Atsme📞📧 00:30, 16 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I thought to comment on Talk:Sex you needed to dial 0898 something and calls cost £350 a minute .... unless you're David Mellor in which case you could reverse the charges. Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 00:53, 16 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Obviously it's this IPA. (They say it's mind-altering.) EEng 14:31, 16 March 2018 (UTC) Ha! I'll bet you didn't think I could drag Gage into it, did you![reply]
It's a pity that Phineas Gage didn't have one of those fists inside his head. --Tryptofish (talk) 17:58, 16 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Actually he did. See bottom of page here. EEng 18:12, 16 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
True, that. But too little, too late. Maybe an early incidence of small hands? --Tryptofish (talk) 20:56, 16 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
A complete miracle he didn't die, I suppose people are credited with having more brains than they use... or not?Prince of Thieves (talk) 18:16, 16 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I find it productive to use 10% of other people's minds. (Crowdsourcing, or zombieism?) --Tryptofish (talk) 20:56, 16 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Other people credited with having more brains than they use
no wonder. Lourdes 03:44, 19 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Please don't archive your talk page
I like spending an hour scrolling down to converse with you. Helps me keep the fat off my arm. (but seriously, your effort to post pics at ANI is the best thing that has happened since....since... umm.. Ok. It's the best thing that has happened there) :D Lourdes 03:52, 19 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Well that's a novel request. (I was going to add that your talk page is itself the length of a novel, but actually it's not quite at that point yet.) —David Eppstein (talk) 07:36, 19 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Pictures make everything better... also did you hear? somebody got elected! To be fair you can press the handy button at the top to avoid scrolling if in a hurry. So the length of the page doesn't matter much. Prince of Thieves (talk) 09:48, 19 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, given that this is EEng's page, to be fair, I can also switch on and switch off my treadmill without standing on it if I'm in a hurry. So the time I've stood on it doesn't matter much. Prince, you seem to be intelligent. Not many like you around. Please go read quantum physics and tell me the square root of a tomato whenever you can. Lourdes 10:44, 19 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The square root of a tomato is very difficult, because a tomato is squishy. It may be possible to calculate it using Hawkins quantum kinematic theories to describe the Godel relativity in macroscopic Schrödinger equations in context to electrodynamic perturbative regimes of 11-dimensional spacetime. Perhaps:
Ergo, the square root of a tomato is a variable equal to the Intelligence quotient of a rabbit. Which according to reliable sources is 42. -- Prince of Thieves (talk) 12:42, 19 March 2018 (UTC)
Pst. I have no idea what any of that means, I just copied random stuff from articles about Hawkins radiation. [reply]
".... so, I thought, how can we model the effect of human sanity on the size of EEng's talk page. Well, I got my bad-ass calculus out, and would you know it, there's a simple mathematical model to convince us that, yes, you can see his talk page from space!"
If you want to talk maths, you need to get in Hannah Fry, who is probably the only person on this planet that can make Markov chains sound sexy. Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 15:29, 19 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
She just knows how to cut cake so she gets the most and everyone is happy with it. #ChooseTheCakeLife L3X1◊distænt write◊ 15:59, 19 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Did somebody just call Hannah Fry a "tomato"? Anyway, Lourdes, please don't encourage EEng. He really needs an intervention. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:46, 19 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Actually I use both interchangeably, nt being either it depends on what little box I ticked last on the spellcheck. Prince of Thieves (talk) 19:01, 20 March 2018 (UTC) [reply]
Trying to find a discussion on your TP
I'll begin by saying I can still smell peanut butter in both nostrils up to 3 ft. away, so (debatably) I don't have a memory issue. I have a where the hell is it issue. I can vaguely recall a TP discussion wherein editors weighed-in and shared their thoughts. It was shortly after that then Can you please confirm, and provide a link? Atsme📞📧 21:45, 19 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Atsme, if you want to stick peanut butter sandwiches up your nose, it's your life and I'm not going to tell you what to do, but are you sure they don't have hallucinogenic effects? Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 22:17, 19 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Weighed in and shared their thoughts about what? --Tryptofish (talk) 22:27, 19 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
OMG! LOL - Hey, Ritchie333 - don't knock it till you've tried it. It's safer than sitting on a mushroom...although it tends to add random partial sentences to one's comments...hopefully now rectumfied rectified. Atsme📞📧 22:29, 19 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
EEng, ^^^^ The above discussion really needs to be archived...it's laced with delirium. Atsme📞📧 04:11, 16 April 2018 (UTC) [reply]
Strange courtfellows
I thought you may enjoy this book cover, which seems to show Hillary Clinton cross-examining that scoundrel Mohandas Gandhi (with an American flag in the background no less, so his sainted reconstituted ashes must have been profoundly extradited). Randy Kryn (talk) 14:16, 21 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The Hillary-ghost is in the process of either appearing or disappearing as Obama watches and basks in the light of Gandhi's halo. The original cover art should be exhibited in a sub-standard but keeping-the-lights-on modern art museum (or the Museum of Bad Art, whose website is worth the price of admission). Randy Kryn (talk) 20:55, 22 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Intervention...
By the time a man is wise enough to watch his step, he’s too old to go anywhere. ~Billy Crystal
There are 2 phrases our beloved EEng has used that may require intervention because...well, they predate or imply [274] "elderly":
[276] "you could fit the people who understand them in a [277] phonebooth."...
Please...no Go Fund Me proposals, or suggestions for senior care. I have looked into vet administration but they don't offer internet. Ok, I admit that it's Friday and I'm bored. Atsme📞📧 22:32, 23 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I'm glad that you are following my advice. I don't think that taking him to a vet would help (foot-in-mouth disease maybe). But in his defense, I'm pretty sure I'm (even) older than he is. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:07, 23 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
...but the image of a "potential you" leaving the "home" looks nothing like the "real you". Perhaps that tells us we're only as old as we feel. Ok, Tryp - c'mere so somebody with more expertise than I can feel how old you are...Atsme📞📧 00:05, 25 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
If whoever is going to "feel" me looks like the image you added to the talk section just below, HELP! --Tryptofish (talk) 20:26, 25 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Legacypac - that image is far more flattering than what I was going to use for the tease...Atsme📞📧 00:15, 25 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
After
the semester's over, if you liked Tealuxe or Cambridge Common, could be nice to chill at either place. -Darouet (talk) 21:08, 26 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
You talkin' to me? EEng 19:17, 27 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Ya EEng! I can propose bougier stuff too but I figured you might be more into the old school options. -Darouet (talk) 21:20, 27 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Darouet - the saddest part being, I was probably far more into it. Atsme📞📧 21:27, 27 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Well Atsme you're invited when you're next passing through! We don't always let bikers in but I'm sure that for you they'll make an exception. -Darouet (talk) 22:11, 27 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
A moment of silence for our colleague Corinne
Many of us have worked alongside User:Corinne here and there around the project, or shared a pleasant word with her right on this page. I'm sorry to tell you that Corinne passed away recently.
I'm sorry to hear this, EEng. R.I.P., Corrine.--Kieronoldham (talk) 23:41, 31 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Devastating...Atsme📞📧 01:18, 1 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I came here to say congrats about the Main Page today, but then I saw this. For a brief moment, I hoped that it was an elaborate April 1 joke, but no. I will miss her very much. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:10, 1 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
She used to work in combination with Rothorpe and I see that he has not edited since Sept 2017. The 'pedia is a lesser place without their presence. Best regards EEng. MarnetteD|Talk 18:24, 1 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Signpost draft
I believe that I have set up the perfect opportunity for you to respond to your curtain call to contribute humorous content to a [Signpost article]. See the draft then insert your comments after the essays that I have highlighted. Also, you have some humourouse essays that you can add to my list. Have a go and invite your talk page stalkers to join in. I consider you and your stalkers to be the connoisseurs of one-line remarks so I hope you all can help. I'll be darned if I am going to hit the preview button on your talk page and wait ten minutes to see it. See what you see in this post is what you get, mistakes and all. Best Regards, Barbara✐ ✉ 13:18, 1 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Barbara (WVS), I'm suddenly frantically busy for the next day or two, maybe even through the end of Thursday. Can it wait that long? Can you ping me lateThursday if you haven't heard back from me by then? EEng 20:44, 1 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
ummm, you have about three weeks. I'm pretty sure I can wait. Best Regards, Barbara✐ ✉ 22:30, 1 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
DYK that it is faster to exit out of this browser window and reload a new Wikipedia browser window than to scroll up to the top? Barbara✐ ✉ 00:10, 4 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I changed my mind. Go here, invite your friends and let your creative juices flow in what I have imagined might be a more comfortable eenvironment for promoting your talents. Barbara✐ ✉ 00:14, 4 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Did you just say EEnviroment? EEng 19:46, 4 April 2018 (UTC) Looking now at the questions, apparently you did.[reply]
Yes, of course I did. The title of the piece will be Eenterview. I am hoping that I can get away with this as editor interview rather than the regular humor piece that I have drafted. Barbara✐ ✉
Talk page stalkers! This honor belongs as much to you as it does to me. Give me a few days to take a stab at it (I'm pretty busy this week) and then I'll invite you guys and gals to jump in with comments droll or biting. EEng 19:46, 4 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
All your talk page stalkers are welcome and will add to the piece. Barbara✐ ✉ 08:06, 5 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Country Fish is at your service. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:45, 4 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Anything (except a lot of things) to save the Signpost. If I forget this please give me an informative edit summary as a drum call. Randy Kryn (talk) 00:37, 5 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Probably you may want to stay away from phallic topics and potty talk. But hey, Wikipedia is not censored, after all.
No line in the sand? Atsme📞📧 07:09, 5 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Well...I've gotten emails about how such shenanigans are beneath me, but hey, it's your reputation after all. Barbara✐ ✉ 08:06, 5 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I think Barbara (WVS) wouldn't mind if hangers-on added to questions of their own to the "interview". Follow the link she gave. But keep it clean, boys. EEng 02:32, 5 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Most definitely add the questions you would like to be asked. Barbara✐ ✉ 08:06, 5 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I've wprked on it a bit more Gohere. Barbara✐ ✉ 08:57, 5 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Your edits to the humour article are very good. Keep it going. Collaboration is a wonderful thing. Barbara✐ ✉ 23:13, 8 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Barbara (WVS) - please provide a link to the page where you want tps to add comments...I've seen 3 so far but don't know which one to use. Atsme📞📧 12:56, 9 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Here is the link. Sir EEng has to answer some of the questions also. The deadline is not too close and there is plenty of time to join the party. Best Regards, Barbara✐ ✉ 06:36, 10 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
"Date request? Oh, Gerda! I thought you'd never ask!"
I wish you both the upmost happiness. As for suggestions where you both might want to go, how about a guided tour of the Widener Library, especially the section on obscure reptiles. That should pique anyone's interest. Ritchie333(talk)(cont) 22:59, 5 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you Ritchie, sorry I missed it, - my (lack of) English is still in the way of upmost happiness. If you want to meet me come when I sing, - my infobox has the venues ;) - The date is with my childhood, DYK? I sang many hymns there for the first time. - Alleluia, the sad one in D major. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:28, 6 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Worry not about your English. We will speak the universal language -- the language of LOVE!EEng 13:44, 6 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
So this is about hookers... do you people think this is the White House or something? --Tryptofish (talk) 17:11, 7 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Image of Stormy...talk of hookers...EEng speaking to Gerda in -- the language of LOVE! ... My oh my! Spring is in the air, so don't be surprised by the viewer spike on this TP. It has all the fixings for a box office hit. Atsme📞📧 12:43, 9 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
😂 So....imagine Stormy Daniels at the center of a Constitutional crisis...only in America. Most will just blow it off. Atsme📞📧 20:50, 9 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Q: What did Monica Lewinsky and Bob Dole have in common? A: They were both upset when Bill finished first. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:05, 9 April 2018 (UTC) ... (you did mean centre, didn't you?) [reply]
The US having become revolting from the UK, no, that was "center". --Tryptofish (talk) 22:00, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
[reply]
Hi EEng. I note that your undid some of my work on Mark Twain. No worries, but I thought I'd explain what I was doing. The dates on the article were mixed up, and it is better to have a consistent style. I assume you thought that all access dates on the article were in yyyy-mm-dd format - however, if you check back in the history, you'll note that some were yyyy-mm-dd, and some were MDY. I have made some effort in making the dates more consistent per MOS guidelines - though there is still some work to be done on this. Looking back at the article history I note that you have previously reverted on this issue. Generally when two editors are making the same corrections to an article, then it is time to look more closely at what they have done. Anyway, no worries, no harm. These things happen. ;-) SilkTork (talk) 16:16, 10 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Hail to "King of the whoppers" (not to be confused/conflated with a Burger King Whopper!! Affectionately...anonymous Ham(burger) lover. Atsme📞📧 00:05, 12 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Instead of leaving me message on my talk page or a mature edit summary after reverting me, you just had to be rude about it. — JudeccaXIII (talk) 00:03, 11 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Instead of just leaving something fun (which I didn't put there, BTW) you had to remove it with some snooty edit summary [280] so I put it back and scolded you for wasting others' time [281]. What's a nutshell page anyway? EEng 01:08, 11 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Yes indeed. I encourage you to make a bold change with an appropriately tentative edit summary. EEng 03:19, 11 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The page isn’t a nutshell, I meant to say WP:ESSAY in my edit summary. Anyways, try to remain civil in your comments. I don’t know how removing an image could be wasting anybody’s time, but you really don’t have any room to be scolding anyone with your history of personal attacks via your block log. Happy editing and Cheers! — JudeccaXIII (talk) 01:36, 11 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Ooh, your block log. Next he'll be complaining about how your talk page is too long. —David Eppstein (talk) 01:41, 11 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The unblock log is slightly more informative in the case of this editor, for what it is worth. TonyBallioni (talk) 01:47, 11 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Even though I'm an administrator, I'm just commenting here as an everyday, average, editor (albeit one with a massive fuck-off banhammer, so watch it)...
JudeccaXIII, I get the block log thing so frequently that I have a bit of a canned response for it: You obviously missed the userbox at the top of my user page...
Hello EEng, I apologize for my overreaction. Starting a discussion and then mentioning your block log was completely unnecessary. — JudeccaXIII (talk) 02:43, 14 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Don't worry about it, JudeccaXIII, I've been on the receiving end of much worse. It's easy to misinterpret what you see there unless (as David Eppstein pointed out) you also read the unblocks and the associated threads. I seem to have a knack for offending the project's most clueless and thin-skinned admins. Have you visited The Museums? EEng 17:18, 14 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I think that was Tony, actually. I recently took a scan through the museums because the "abandon all hope" line above reminded me of File:Inferno Canto 3 line 9.jpg but I didn't remember where to find the image and I thought the museums would be the easiest way to find that. But it's not there; maybe I was thinking of the pit-mine "... or if you prefer, try ANI." one? —David Eppstein (talk) 17:32, 14 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think the Inferno Canto image has ever graced User_talk:EEng or User:EEng, but admittedly there's been quite a lot of traffic over the years. Hate to say it, but I don't know what you mean about the pit-mine one other, but someone (probably Martinevans123 once added an img of a peat bog on fire. Everything's in the archives somewhere. BTW, getting anywhere on NPC? EEng 18:30, 14 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
EEng I’ve been editing Wiki by phone for the past 3 months, so my screen isn’t as big. After seeing that my scroll bar was tiny and my internet was slow for both of your pages, I clicked straight to new message. Even now, I’m going straight to respond without waiting for the page to load up, so I haven’t viewed anything on your user pages. Until you just linked the museum section. — JudeccaXIII (talk) 04:56, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't realize it was even possible to get to user pages on the mobile app, but apparently it is if you type the namespace:title in the search bar. But yes, navigating through this on a tiny screen sounds painful. —David Eppstein (talk) 06:48, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
You actually kept it!
Well, I didn't manage to be sneaky enough, but I still feel a bit fuzzy inside :3
I was getting bored with the moribund Help desk replies. So just smoked your stuff there without crediting you :) L0URDES 23:39, 16 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Input requested from Knight Errants, Knights running errands at night…
fish, frogs, bunnies, attack helicopters, and talk page stalkers in limited quantities. Based off a statement on Kudpung's TP, I created User:L3X1/RoastDuck, but am having some creative issues with it. I don't know which version is better, and if it possible to make one with File:Cyberduck icon.png on one side and File:Fire02.jpg or something on the other side of the text, but my HTML skills are not enough in that regard. Clerk note: His HTML skills are not enough in any regard . If anyone has any ideas feel free to discuss or implement them. Thanks, Lord High Permanent Senior Undersecretary to L3X1(addressed as His Worshipfulness Lordy Lord) 18:20, 17 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I saw the new poem on your user page about Ode (owed?) to ANI. Where is it from? It looks vaguely familiar, but I'm too lazy to look it up. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:36, 17 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
All I can tell you is [282]. EEng 04:04, 19 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
It shows year-by-year occurrences of the phrase "deaf policeman heard the noise" in the English-language Googlebooks corpus; the first appearance shown there is about 1943. More here [283].
Having said that, I poked around a bit and found, Elsie Clews Parsons, "Bermuda Folklore", American Folklore v38 n148, Apr-Jun 1925: 239-266 which quotes a variant (found in Bermuda, of course), but also quotes scraps of it as being heard among "New York boys". So that's what I know. EEng 19:18, 19 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
OK, so I just googled it, and realized that it can be seen here at Nonsense verse. So I guess it can be attributed to "traditional" and "anonymous". That's really all that I was asking, thanks. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:26, 19 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I thought the same, Tryp. Scroll down a bit more to the section Alle-wiki-gory, and Arbcom, step by step or what I refer to as "having a cow". He forgot the final phase: "til the cows come home" so I just added the image. Atsme📞📧 23:13, 17 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Barnstar
The Copyeditor's Barnstar
For your excellent copyediting to Southwest Airlines Flight 1380, creating a clear, coherent and concise Lead that mentions the salient points of the subject without unnecessary details, I hereby award you this Barnstar. YSSYguy (talk) 01:59, 21 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Well, we'll see how long before some airfan says all accident articles have to be uniformly unreadable and stuffed with trivia. EEng 02:22, 21 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Take no prisoners
Your "take no prisoners" approach (your words) is not the Wikipeda way.
Southwest Airlines Flight 1380 was not a 737. It was a flight. It was a flight flown by a 737. Southwest Boat (talk) 18:43, 21 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oh boy, another failure of WP:ASTONISHME. Why not go whole hog and say "US Airways Flight 1549 was a US Airways airline flight, with flight number 1549"? Look how much extra information you're giving the readers by repeating all the words as many times as you can! —David Eppstein (talk) 18:50, 21 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
(talk page watcher) I concur with David, and I agree with the things that David wrote in his reply above where I am writing below it. Also, Ryanair Flight 4102's Lead sentence is written differently than the ones stress Boat has been changing, so it's not a good example to follow. - BilCat (talk) 19:01, 21 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
(Buttinsky) For some reason, I didn't think a flight could suffer, (anthropomorphism) and I certainly didn't think a 737 could pilot a flight...especially while suffering. Atsme📞📧 19:21, 21 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
"Butt in sky" seems a little harsh here. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:26, 21 April 2018 (UTC) [reply]
It's not necessary to tell readers that Rome is in Italy. I leave it to the assembled multitude to decide which is superior. EEng 01:17, 27 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
This assembled mass prefers your version, but blue-link bird strike. (And here I never even knew that they were unionized!) --Tryptofish (talk) 16:51, 27 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I tried boldly making that change, and several other related changes. (E.g. if we say that some people were treated in hospital for their injuries, is it really also necessary to say, separately and in the lead, that they were transported to the hospital?) —David Eppstein (talk) 17:49, 27 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Had a ball
Enjoyed your user page and talk page! Sethie (talk) 05:59, 22 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
That's also what the eunuch said! [FBDB] --Tryptofish (talk) 20:35, 22 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, Sethie. And don't mind Tryptofish, he's just that way. EEng 04:38, 26 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Tryp - when the vet fixes a horse, it's called an "attitude adjustment". Atsme📞📧 13:33, 26 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I'm "just that way"? Which way? OMG!!!! Owwww!!! --Tryptofish (talk) 17:07, 26 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Hmmmm...niche market for anatomically correct bike seats? Any bikes at the home, Tryp? Atsme📞📧 13:17, 1 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
If there's a fair-use expert lurking about, your attention to [284] would be appreciated. <signed> The Museum Curator
Here's another
The Socratic Barnstar
For aptly saying what no one else would say, this time, and every other time. Swarm♠ 07:23, 1 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Essay question
I believe you have an essay named after a teacher about how not to insist on every style or grammar thing that you were taught was a mandatory rule in school. I was going to cite it on Talk:Catholic Church, but can't find it for the life of me. TonyBallioni (talk) 14:43, 1 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
TonyBallioni, see WP:Lies Miss Snodgrass Told You. There are some shortcuts too, for future reference. There's a crack in there about Sister Mary Catherine, so prepare to be excommunicated. EEng 15:05, 1 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sure the memory of it will be a great comfort as you burn in hell. EEng 15:36, 1 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
If that's all I'm going to hell for, well, I think I'm doing fine. TonyBallioni (talk) 15:45, 1 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Don't tell Nick, but the Cabal has a small a/c'd cavern down the 3rd chamber and a little to the left. Don't ask me how I know. L3X1◊distænt write◊ 17:38, 1 May 2018 (UTC) [reply]
I found that your quick-footed rhetoric here cut straight to the issue. Cogent, concise, rational, and disposing of a position you disagree with while remaining respectful--exactly what our community discussions could use more of. Snowlet's rap 00:13, 6 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
For your attention
"The Society for the History of Alchemy and Chemistry (SHAC) is a society devoted to the history of alchemy and chemistry. The Society was founded as the Society for the Study of Alchemy and Early Chemistry in 1935." Perhaps it is useful for your page and could use a copy edit Legacypac (talk) 11:56, 18 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I'll do what I can, though I can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. I'm still in The Mysterious East so can you ping me again late next week? EEng 15:02, 18 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Yippee! EEng is away, so we can vandalize his talk page! And let's nominate him for deletion again! Oh, and EEng, while you are over there, could you pick up a knock-off sow's ear purse for me? Thanks! --Tryptofish (talk) 20:23, 18 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I took a quick swipe at the article and made use of its disjecta membra[285]. EEng 13:58, 5 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I must have the wrong end of the stick
You can't possibly be insinuating that editors who work hard getting articles to GA and FA level—something I'm moderately well known for not having the stomach to do—and continue to watch over them rather than putting them on the metaphorical mantlepiece like a trophy are narcissists? Or that doing what Arbcom said to do, and discussing a matter on the merits for each individual article, is narcissistic? As I say, I must have the wrong end of the stick and you must be snarking at that talkpage about someone else wasting the time of those who administer Arbcom's increasingly byzantine set of fiats. I just hope I don't get dragged over there; I can't make head or tail of the system, those administering it seem to have all forgotten that we're supposed to be writing (and improving) articles. Yngvadottir (talk) 21:19, 19 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Bringing articles to GA/FA, fine. Keeping an eye on them, fine. Engaging in a years-long battle to the death which drains the scarce resources and attention of the dispute-resolution machinery of the project – with a few rage quits thrown in now and then – to prove that you were somehow mistreated: narcissism. EEng 13:24, 22 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Discretionary sanctions alert
This message contains important information about an administrative situation on Wikipedia. It does not imply any misconduct regarding your own contributions to date.
Discretionary sanctions is a system of conduct regulation designed to minimize disruption to controversial topics. This means uninvolved administrators can impose sanctions for edits relating to the topic that do not adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, our standards of behavior, or relevant policies. Administrators may impose sanctions such as editing restrictions, bans, or blocks. This message is to notify you that sanctions are authorised for the topic you are editing. Before continuing to edit this topic, please familiarise yourself with the discretionary sanctions system. Don't hesitate to contact me or another editor if you have any questions.
You have been sanctioned for continuing to edit war after being told to stop, being "right" does not give you a pass to edit war as you please. This sanction does not prevent you from editing the talk page and I encourage you to do so.
You may appeal this sanction using the process described here. I recommend that you use the arbitration enforcement appeals template if you wish to submit an appeal to the arbitration enforcement noticeboard. You may also appeal directly to me (on my talk page), before or instead of appealing to the noticeboard. Even if you appeal this sanction, you remain bound by it until you are notified by an uninvolved administrator that the appeal has been successful. You are also free to contact me on my talk page if anything of the above is unclear to you. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 22:17, 20 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
For those playing along at home...
For several years the image + caption at right have appeared in WP:Manual of Style/Images. Two days ago, a series of edits to the caption began:
I reverted them all as either simply not as good as the longstanding wording, or illogical, or just plain awful. I repeatedly asked that potential changes be proposed first on the talk page; one editor's (an admin!) edit summary was I don't think I'll bother with the talk page: I mean ultimately it's not very important, is it? why waste time on long discussion? as he editwarred in his preferred version again. And I get a page ban? EEng 05:33, 21 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Must be something in the water, EEng - a TB was recently proposed for me based on my civility (yes, civility) and willingness to adhere to DS Consensus needed restrictions, and for asking others please play fair and allow another editor to present proposed text for a highly controversial article. And I've only made 10 total edits to the article in question and 20x as many to the article TP because of the DS. The end of 2017 appears to have kicked off a whole new era of crazy. 😝 Atsme📞📧 18:53, 22 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Nice , you deserve it due to "barbaric state" LOL . Alexson 97 (talk) 23:54, 2 June 2018 (UTC) This user has been blocked indefinitely. --Tryptofish (talk) 17:40, 3 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Let that be a lesson! EEng 17:48, 3 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Friendly challenge
HA! I just snagged the first April Fools DYK for 2019. It's not that good, but it will do for now. So, friend, how about we see how many you can get created to show up on 4/1/2019. Are you game. Best Regards, Barbara✐ ✉ 12:21, 22 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
As long as Trump remains in office I'll run circles around all comers. EEng 13:03, 22 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Google is watching you!
I was just taking a look at some comments about me at Wikipediocracy (bonus points for anyone who finds that one!), and I found that when I typed "wikipedioc" into Google, the third autofill that it returned was "wikipediocracy eeng" [294]. The first search result isn't even about you (someone abbreviated English Wikipedia), and the second is the old Gage thing. Apparently someone is searching a lot for that one! Quite the search engine optimization! --Tryptofish (talk) 22:01, 23 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I say give ‘em something to watch...try these - hmmm, wonder if they’ll fit on my pretty red tricycle. Atsme📞📧 16:13, 26 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I wonder what that has to do with what I posted.... --Tryptofish (talk) 16:37, 26 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Google eyes...being watched...why not shine a little light on it? A joke, perhaps? Just before I read your comment, that ad popped up on one of the social sites and it made me laugh. My hippocampus did it's job, and I immediately recalled the picture of the red tricycle EEng posted, and voila - here we are amidst all the rapid firing of atsme's confused thinking. I'll delete it if you don't want it following your detective work. Atsme📞📧 16:54, 26 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
No, no need to delete. I was just baffled. --Tryptofish (talk) 16:56, 26 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Hi there, HorsesAreNice, and sorry for the delay in responding. You might have heard that everything in an article needs to be drawn from a reliable source. In addition, it's almost always a good idea to say in the article, for each fact or passage, what source it was drawn from. That's what the little superscript numbers, like this[5], mean. Those numbers tie in to notes at the bottom ("foot") of the article naming the sources, so they're called footnotes. The way to put footnotes in articles takes some practice to gets used to, so if you have something to add and know the source, you can just put the source in parentheses for now, like this:
Jones discovered Smith Island in 1833. (John Bobson, A History of Explorers, page 5)
Someone else will come along and put it in the usual form, and eventually you'll learn to do that for yourself. Good luck! EEng 19:20, 30 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Um, you explained footnotes, but I still don't know what a foornote is. Searching Google I found this but am still not enlightened. And the old deleted version of foor is no help either. —David Eppstein (talk) 05:37, 1 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe "foor" is short for "foobar". (I personally would never drink foo at a bar, though. Pho is of course another matter, although it doesn't rhyme with foo.) --Tryptofish (talk) 19:21, 1 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
As per usual, this thread is now getting FUBAR, I'm glad to say. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:33, 1 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
A footnote is like the ovipositor on a Seahorse. Use your imagination. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 19:36, 1 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
That's a low blow, Legobot. EEng 04:34, 1 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Nobody throws shade like Legobot. ATraintalk 07:23, 1 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Indentation
Hi. Regarding this revision of yours, I thought it was an error. Why was it intentional? Is there a specific reason you used four colons instead of two? Interqwarktalkcontribs 06:48, 5 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
To emphasize that my post was out of chronological order, and so that, should my post grow into a side "branch" of the thread (as others reply) it will be visually "off to the side" of the main flow. EEng 06:53, 5 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Hi EEng. I know I've stopped by to say thanks for the smile a time or two before but your finding the clip for "Crush-Kill-Destroy" sets the bar just that much higher :-) Many cheers to ya! MarnetteD|Talk 05:08, 6 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
In reply to your recent rant visable from space at ANI
Here's a thought. Let's start a separate set of dramaboards just for beauty contests and pro wrestling. Then all of us reality based editors just ignore them completely. Let them argue amongst themselves until they get so pissed off at each other that they quit. Then possibly we can impose the same version of PAGs the rest of the encyclopedia has on them and do away with 98% of the content. John from Idegon (talk) 05:22, 6 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
All excellent ideas. I'm utterly serious that there are some topics that inherently attract too high a proportion of incompetent people. EEng 05:31, 6 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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--Tryptofish (talk) 20:56, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
There is currently a discussion at ANI regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is EEng and edit warring. Thank you. —Bgwhite (talk) 07:39, 28 August 2014 (UTC)
Atsme☯Consult Agent 99 14:06, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
Eman235/talk 22:11, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
Burninthruthesky (talk) 08:56, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
Atsme📞📧 03:15, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
Eman235/talk 06:06, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
Atsme📞📧 02:01, 20 March 2016 (UTC)
<---- fertile discussion? Atsme📞📧 01:20, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
I apologize for reverting your edit over at "What Wikipedia is not" (diff [95]). I am an experienced editor, but forays into policy and guideline pages are new to me - so I admit I was being rigid. Having looked over your user page and talk page I see that you are a very experienced editor and that you know what you are doing. So, in the future I think I will do the same for any editor who edits guideline and policy pages - before I revert with an intention to save the Universe and Wikipedia.
.jpg)
Hello, I'm RexxS. I noticed that you made a comment on the page Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style that didn't seem very civil, so it has been removed. Wikipedia is built on collaboration, so it's one of our core principles to interact with one another in a polite and respectful manner. If you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page.
If you're not interested in discussion, then please keep your ad homiems to yourself RexxS (talk) 20:45, 4 September 2016 (UTC)
_(29394082490).jpg)
Done —David Eppstein (talk) 01:50, 20 November 2016 (UTC)
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22:57, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
_(14579600847).jpg)
Gotta love it!! Cheers 
Atsme📞📧 22:28, 10 March 2017 (UTC)
Atsme📞📧 23:09, 10 March 2017 (UTC)
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Please do not attack other editors, as you did at User talk:Leprof 7272. Comment on content, not on contributors. Personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Please stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. Don't do this, and don't do this. Needlessly insulting the user isn't helping anyone. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 22:54, 2 May 2017 (UTC)
Facepalm Anyway, I'm glad about the self-correction, and sorry that it was needed in the first place. --Tryptofish (talk) 00:30, 8 May 2017 (UTC)
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Please do not add defamatory content to Wikipedia, especially if it involves living persons. Thank you.
😂😂😂. Atsme📞📧 19:28, 13 July 2017 (UTC)
once or twice, undeservedly of course. Lil 😈 01:17, 31 August 2017 (UTC)
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This is your only warning; if you trim out blatantly excessive text from a long standing rights description page making the text far more digestible and less complex for the average reader, as you did with this edit, I shall have to praise you again.
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Buttinsky) I totally agree with you TGS and AFE. I can't overemphasize the engaging prose by our one and only EEng, an editor I admire and consider to be extraordinary in so many different ways. I would definitely be among the FA reviewers if PG became a WP:FAC. Atsme📞📧 19:57, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
!! 🙈 Wish I hadn't read that! The nerve of those people!!! Atsme📞📧 15:29, December 2, 2017
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Atsme📞📧 22:17, 31 December 2017 (UTC)
That caption's looking much better. Any advance on that, or should I add it to the article now? nagualdesign 19:47, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
J947 (c), at 05:42, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
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Hello. It appears your talk page is becoming quite lengthy and is perhaps now visible from Mars. According to Wikipedia's user talk page guidelines; "Large talk pages become visible from space, and are in danger of being photographed by satellites and used as evidence in industrial espionage. As a rule of thumb, archive closed discussions when atmospheric pressure drops below 3psi." - this talk page is 4.5 pounds per square inch [psi] (31 kPa), or slightly above Mount Everest. See Help:Archiving a talk page for instructions on how to manually archive your talk page, or to arrange for automatic archiving using a bot. Or we might just get the bot to do it anyway for a laugh. If you have any questions, place a {{help me}} notice on your talk page, or go to the help desk. Thank you. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 19:11, 7 March 2018 (UTC)
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Lourdes 03:16, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
but they don't offer internet. Ok, I admit that it's Friday and I'm bored. Atsme📞📧 22:32, 23 March 2018 (UTC)
...but the image of a "potential you" leaving the "home" looks nothing like the "real you". Perhaps that tells us we're only as old as we feel. Ok, Tryp - c'mere so somebody with more expertise than I can feel how old you are...Atsme📞📧 00:05, 25 March 2018 (UTC)
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